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Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie
36 Plays3 days ago
i've been thinking a lot today..
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Transcript
The Art of Riffing and Blaming Technology
00:00:19
Speaker
We have habit of just because we're so good at, you know, making concerts. Riffing. We're riffmeisters, you know. the the moment the mic turns on, we we turn off, unfortunately. That's the that's the unfortunate thing, these guys got juice fans. If you ever have a problem with an episode that we do, you know, just just just consider the fact that it's actually the recording software's fault, that it just wasn't there, you know, and that you weren't physically there to see us to have these conversations. Yeah.
00:00:45
Speaker
Well, that's why we we got to build up to live shows. that that's that's good the that That's the real experience. That's where you really get the juice. we we We need to do like what Matthew McConaughey
Matthew McConaughey's Self-Help Seminars: Scam or Salvation?
00:00:57
Speaker
is doing right now. where you have you Have you seen like his business meetings and stuff? Have have you seen this at all?
00:01:02
Speaker
I saw the thing where he's like sitting down with Chalamet and talking about AI, but ah I haven't seen like what else is he doing? He's doing like business scams.
00:01:13
Speaker
Oh, okay. Like, like he does like self-help seminars, right? And he just goes up and talks for an hour like a priest, right? And there's always, always ah like a ton of people there to like talk back and forth or like talk about their questions. And I remember like during COVID, there was this particularly dystopian version of this where it was like him with like a wall, a giant screen that was filled with like people FaceTiming in. And I'm like, that's what we
Global Shows and World Domination: A Humorous Take
00:01:40
Speaker
got to do. You know, like we got to stand up on a stage and we've got to have
00:01:44
Speaker
hundreds of faces behind us just staring at us the entire time you know that's that's our gladiator that's that's our stadium do simultaneous shows like you're in canada doing a show and i'm on a screen and then i'm like here in the states and you're on a screen yeah that's our competitive advantage we we we we turn these guys got juice international we we can cover more ground yeah yeah we're gonna start getting yeah people in every every country Of course. Right. Because at the end of the day, our our goal is accessibility. Right. Being able to make sure that everybody can be a part of this conversation. And that means having somebody in Uruguay. We need it.
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah. i ah I was going to say our goal is world domination, but also accessibility. Oh, yeah. That's the. For sure. Yeah. Hey, world domination, Uruguay, whatever comes first in my books, you know, like we like I'm not going to complain about either option. Right. You know, as long as we just get there.
00:02:38
Speaker
Right.
Exploring 'Nirvana, the Band, the Show' and Matt Johnson’s Improvisational Genius
00:02:39
Speaker
Yeah. ah I was trying to decide what I feel like since I just saw it, we should just do the ah Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie first. or Yeah. You down for that? Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:52
Speaker
Currently, I'm playing a piano tee you up for your intro. the d lo I was sorry to see your your post that you said, like, your audience, like, wasn't really responding to it because my audience was, like, as soon as from that opening in 2008 and, you know, Matt starts riffing. He's, like, just such a fucking good improviser. Like, we we're paying ourselves on the bat for riffing. I mean, like, that's, the like, gold standard, I feel like. Oh. up I mean, yeah, I've seen lots of good improv, you know, there's lots of bad improv, but there's, ah you know, there's some good improv, especially on like, like Dropout. I watched a lot of the shows on there. Those, those people are are pretty talented, but like Matt Johnson, like he's like,
00:03:34
Speaker
Yeah, S tier. It really helps that he is the filmmaker first, right? And because he is looking at every scenario as how do I construct the scene to allow for it to play out the way that I want it to be, I think that that gives him a lot more... um confidence as a improv actor right it's not just that he needs to be funny in a situation he needs to do something in order to push the plot in a particular uh space forward um to before i get too much into the improv though because that's i feel like that's going to be like a whole 30 minutes right there right uh you brought up my uh viewing experience and i went to richmond hill which is just outside of uh toronto right i was meeting up with a friend uh that I've had for many years and uh you know to kind of give perspective it's not like as far as like a New York to New Jersey situation it's a lot closer to that comparatively speaking it's not like a Toronto to Ottawa distance no no it's not four to five hours in an RV um but uh the the uh
00:04:41
Speaker
The vibe in Richmond Hill is certainly a lot different than in Toronto. It's more
Cultural Differences in Audience Engagement
00:04:45
Speaker
suburban. And when we went to the theater, it was actually decently busy. I knew that the hype was big online and I stayed largely unspoiled. So I was very excited to see how it played out. And this movie is a laugh riot, not to, you know, spoil my thoughts on this movie, but I think anybody tuning in is going to be well aware that we like this movie.
00:05:04
Speaker
um But the When this started, i was laughing really hard. And then like I realized that nobody else in the theater was laughing. And, you know, sometimes there are moments where it's like you're laughing in a theater. You're like, OK, all right. Like i'll I'll keep it to myself a little bit, you know, and see how other people build up to it. It was crickets the entire time. Wow. i was shocked. Like a part of me felt like I was going and insane. I was like, am I the problem for finding this funny? You know, but no, yes that can't be at the issue. No, no, no. Because like, and and it's not even a thing of like, oh, only this is just for the fans. It's pure fan service. I bet most of my ah ah crowd did not know. Maybe the one girl who stayed to like the end of the credits, like I did, I was the only other person besides this one other girl in the audience. and state I was like, okay, she's probably like a fan that she just wanted to stick around just in case. But,
00:05:55
Speaker
But no one also, even though the the audience was clearly eating it up, i so I started, I did applause at the end and no one like, they're like, no, we're not doing that. That's, that's a line in the sand for me too. You know, if I'm not at a film festival, right. If the filmmaker is not in attendance to hear those applause, that's where I do not applaud. You know, like
Tim Burton's Films and Disney's Director Choices: A Critique
00:06:16
Speaker
for me, it's like, you know, if I'm in a movie theater like that and I'm seeing it opening day or something, you know, that's not my vibe. I appreciate that you did, though, because this is certainly an applause worthy film. Spiritually, he will hear it, though, like through the ether, you know, like he'll he'll feel like, oh, OK, someone is really resonating with with my art that I put out there.
00:06:38
Speaker
It's a shame you didn't clap earlier, like maybe like ah when winter was coming. So then when all of like the geese were flying north. i No, no, I messed it up. They're flying south. Rats. So I guess you have time, you know, in the opposite direction very soon.
00:06:54
Speaker
That's how that works, right? Yeah, right. I think so. Yeah, that that's a shame because, like, even comedies that I don't like, i'll ah I've had the experience where, like, I know you you had fun with this movie, but, like, I didn't care for, like, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, but I was still laughing, you know, especially, like, have anytime Justin Theroux or Catherine O'Hara come on screen, they're, you know, like, swinging for for the fences. I'm like, you guys aren't, especially the Catherine O'Hara thing was weird. It was like, you guys are not, yeah none of this is hidden? Like, come on. Like, think...
00:07:28
Speaker
i you know I think the filmmaker making this is a hack, but I'm still, like, can acknowledge this is funny. Well, i'm I'm certainly a bit higher on Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, but it's kind of for that exact reason where, like, going into it, I'm just like, Tim Burton is, like, pretty much dead to me at this point. He's barely made a good movie since, like,
00:07:44
Speaker
I don't 2005, 2006, right? I guess Corpse Bride might be the last thing you could call, like, good. It's really when he went off the deep end with Alice in Wonderland. i mean, I never kept up with, like, any, like, because ah i've I've seen people try to secretly push, like, mostly just blank check, I feel like, of, like, Dumbo's secretly good, you know? Like, it's actually, like, a...
00:08:05
Speaker
a meta commentary on stuff. was like, there's like actual
Chadwick Boseman's Legacy and Marvel's Future
00:08:09
Speaker
good movies I can watch that are about like that. ah I can watch the player. there's you know you I want something that's like meta and about the industry. This feels like, uh, like the first couple of weeks after, before and after, Barry Jenkins's Lion King movie came out where everybody was like, Oh, you should watch it. And I'm like, Hmm.
00:08:31
Speaker
I was, I was sus of that immediately because yeah it just felt like less and less, one, they're hiring, Disney's hiring less auteurs to do their projects, but it also felt like that there was less and less of them in it. Like there was the exceptions of like, okay, they're just going to stay out of James Gunn's way because, you know, like the...
00:08:51
Speaker
His stuff is very profitable. He knows what he's doing. yeah And ah Ryan Coogler, I think to an extent, although like his story is at the mercy of, like I guess, not just the larger universe, but in just real-world stuff. like Definitely like put a ding in his ability to store. I still think Wakanda Forever is like... ah i there's There's some good stuff in there. It's just...
00:09:13
Speaker
One, I would have recast him. Like, even even Boswick's family said, like, that would have been fine. Like, you have our blessing to do that. And it's like, I feel like you're just cutting off so many other good potential, like, storyline. Like, we'll never get any interactions with T'Challa and the Fantastic Four now.
Marvel Movies: Real-World Impacts and Storytelling Critiques
00:09:32
Speaker
Like, that sucks.
00:09:34
Speaker
Like, he doesn't even get to meet Namor. I don't mean to same say this to demean Chadwick, right? Because truth be told, I really loved Chadwick when he was alive. You know, like 42, I remember seeing that movie in theaters and being like, who is this guy? And I watched him from there. His part in The Five Bloods is small, but he's very memorable in that. ah And the thing that he won for, like his last Ma Rainey. He's like, yes, he's excellent in that.
00:10:00
Speaker
And speaking of that, he's really fucking great in that James Brown biopic that they made. The movie itself is like kind of flimsy, but like when it's just him acting, you're just like, holy shit, this guy was amazing. I gotta say the James Brown bit. It's mixed. I think Craig Robinson's in it, oddly enough. Like it's it's very strange. Interesting.
00:10:22
Speaker
ah But I do want to point to this, though, which is that like even though he was a fantastic actor, I would not say that he was somebody who like, you know, like with a Black Panther. No, no, sorry. With like a Spider-Man. Right. Even though there's like Tom Holland and all of them, I always think like Tobey Maguire. Right. Just in my mind. Right.
00:10:43
Speaker
For me, it's like, you know, if there were going to be multiple Black Panthers, I don't think that Chadwick performed it in a way to where it was like his. You know, he played it very safe, very straight. Right. Right. So, like, what you're going from there, right, is, like, saying that, you know, somebody else could have taken it over, the family on It should just be, like, Bond. I agree. Like, for sure. Like, anyone can take this mantle.
00:11:04
Speaker
and then And, like, there's a whole bunch of, like, reincarnation stuff and all that. It's been a while since I've seen Black Bane. I never even saw Wakanda forever. haven't seen a Marvel movie in years. um But the... Like,
Celebrating 'Nirvana, the Band, the Movie': A Masterpiece of Comedy
00:11:15
Speaker
from what I understand, there's like mixing mixing with the afterlife and reality in some ways. You could probably use that to like Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus your way out of this issue.
00:11:24
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Or you just don't even have to. Like, I feel like they overthink these things now of like having to explain like, it's like we used to just recast like, like, blah.
00:11:35
Speaker
Batman ah Returns and Batman Forever are kind of supposed to be the same continuity, but only really just the only transfers like Alfred and Gordon actors. Like otherwise, it's like it's a new Batman.
00:11:47
Speaker
ah Harvey Dent became white. You know, he was Billy Dee Williams. And then when he got the acid in his face, he's like, I'm part white
00:11:58
Speaker
It's dangerous. Everything I just said about Chadwick, I would say the exact same thing about Chris Evans. Like, I feel like it's to the point where, like, none of these Marvel iterations of these heroes are, like, theirs beyond, like,
00:12:13
Speaker
Robert Downey Jr. I was going to say like he like redefined because like retroactively now in the comics, the character is more like Robert Downey Jr. Like because he was more like kind of stoic. He was kind of boring beforehand. He's just like a science rich scientist guy. Like he didn't really have like the the quippiness until Robert Downey Jr. came in and added his flair to it.
00:12:38
Speaker
One of the greatest actors alive decided to just like lock himself in a salt mine for two decades. And we haven't seen him since. um But I don't want to move too far away from the movie that we're talking about, though, because like I feel like we're talking about a very special movie today. Like Nirvana, the band that showed the movie is something that like ah beyond like this conversation, I feel like we're going to talk about it a lot. I feel like it's going to be like something that's referenced a lot.
00:13:05
Speaker
um This thing's like probably like going to be one of the best movies of the year, like depending on how it shakes out. But this movie is fucking awesome. I mean, this was my most anticipated of the year just from everything. One, just finally getting new Nirvana the band, you know, like after all these years and then all the buzz from last year when it was playing at festivals, was like I fucking need to see this thing. And the fact that it came so early in the year felt like a true like it like sometimes, you know, my birthday is in the winter. So it's like I don't always, you know, like. be
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:50
Speaker
fucking new nirvana the band the show stuff and and it's supposed to be great and then guess what it is because sometimes ah something being hyped that much can be a detriment Like where you like go in you're like, oh yeah, that was pretty good. But like everyone was like acting like this was the second coming. I was like, if anything, the hype may be undersold how good it is because it's not just a great comedy. Like, ah like we've discussed on our dirties episode and you know,
00:14:19
Speaker
we're We're jumping around like we ah we we did the dirties and now we're doing his most recent film. We're going to go back and and do the other ones. But, ah you know, spoiler alert, Matt Johnson's like a good filmmaker and he's, you know. rise Didn't mean to let that count of the bag, but it's true.
00:14:37
Speaker
but i um the We're jumping around a bit, but also in a way we're doing this in a kind of correct fashion. You know, I feel like show the the beginning and the end, kind of like, you know, a certain time traveling story that like goes back and forth, you know, so it actually is very appropriate.
00:14:57
Speaker
Exactly. And, ah you know, we can't talk about the Nirvana the Band the Show, right? So I feel like this is just like the perfect place to talk about just Nirvana the Band the Show as well as the movie, right? Right, absolutely. And, like, we've talked a bit about the improv a bit for, like, what makes ah Matt so good at doing this. But also, like, the entire structure of this thing. It's no wonder why it's persisted as long as it has because it feels like a classic, like...
00:15:26
Speaker
two-hander, three-hander comedy. bit This is like Abbott and Costello. This is Abbott and Costello. Mark's brother. Jay and Silent with Bob. Yeah, yeah exactly. yeah Yeah, no, and they're so good because, like, you you think, like, because...
00:15:39
Speaker
They're kind of the personalities they're playing are similar, but also very different because it's like they're both dopes, but who like have this this dream. ah They have a dream that's like ah should be very modest, but also outlandish because of the like the means they go about to achieve it. But then like there's specificity in how like.
00:16:00
Speaker
their nightivity, your, their nightivity. Yeah. I can't talk today. They're both, they're both like naive and like, uh, know, like childish and, and, and different ways. Like, cause like, that's kind of like the, besides the thing of like, when I'm describing it to the, uh, to other people just who've never heard of them, like, it's like, okay, imagine if like fly of the concords were like even less successful and like,
00:16:24
Speaker
but Like their characters that they play in the show, like they're even less successful. And that there's, you know, like man on the street bits, like they include like real people as extras and in their storytelling. And then also just like a lot of like cultural TV movie references.
00:16:40
Speaker
Absolutely born from pop culture. But and and the way i would describe this, not necessarily to a person on the street, but maybe someone with some familiarity with Matt Johnson already. ah This show is essentially like imagine instead of Owen, it's Jay.
00:16:55
Speaker
And like what happens if Owen never broke up with Matt? Right. Like this idea that like these are like childhood friends that have been trying to work towards this ah dream that they have to play at the Rivoli, which is, you know, a fine bar, but it's not like the best bar in Toronto. It's it's a it's funny that they're going there. um But it's this idea that like they held on to this childhood dream. They have this like dynamic that can't be explained rationally. But anybody who is watching it knows what this is like that has No real authority, but for whatever reason, he has some kind of authority over Jay just from like decades long ingrained like ah beliefs within each other. And what
Improvisation and Music as Pillars of Comedy
00:17:36
Speaker
I love about the show is that Matt has no real follow through. he has no real way of actually constructing something, but he has a lot of passion. He can convince people of that. He's really good at like getting you to buy in. And then with Jay, like he's somebody who's always got one foot out the door, but he's always charmed by Matt. He's like, Matt always does something. He's got a twinkle in his eye. And then Jay goes, and even, even when he's skeptical of the plan, because like that's, that's a running bit throughout the show. And then in the,
00:18:07
Speaker
carries over to movie it's like his plans aren't good he's he's an ideas guy but it's like his ideas are more like they're high concept it's like it's more like he's he's pitching a high concept like movie instead of like an actual doable plan because it'll always be like like why do you go through all that just to play at this bar like you don't have to do that The problems stem from the source, which is like, A, they called themselves Nirvana with two N's and the band. And they they appear to not know about Nirvana. Or the band. bunch but but
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's very strange. You would expect at least one the weight um needle drop. Especially because they're so like they're kind of stuck mentally in the 90s. So it's like, sure. Why? ah Like, yeah, that's Nirvana. Like, you that was their time. Like, you didn't pick up any of that.
00:19:02
Speaker
Like, you got you guys got Nirvana up there, right? How many 90s action movies have they referenced on the show? And never at any point do they mention the name Kurt Cobain, right? And then another aspect is, ah you know, they they are a band, but they don't have songs. Like, it's always just like these improvised things where Jay's just at the piano and Jay's a really talented pianist. He's able to just like run into whatever kind of chord progression he wants. He's just a talented musician because like... ah
00:19:33
Speaker
There's a moment here where he's like just like riffing on the drums with like, man, I'm like, yeah, he can just give him any instrument. It seems like he can like get something out of that. ah ah But like and and Jay plays it really well to where he never like is showing off too much.
00:19:47
Speaker
Like he's just like kind of like a workhorse, like not. throws him something and he just has to hammer down at the piano. And the fact that Jay plays it like that too, as an audience, we're not thinking to ourselves, oh, is Matt okay? Instead, we're like, no, Matt's got this. He's about to like lead us into this next thing. Again, making so this, ah you know, comedy duo thing has this strong chemistry.
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah, because he's like yes-anding Matt, but just like through the medium of music. yeah It's like that that's supposed to, you know, it's an old adage for improv that you yes-and. I mean, sometimes there's exceptions to that, like yeah especially if you know the the scene partner really well, you can like throw them, intentionally throw them off by like shutting down their thing. But you're not supposed to do that in improv. You're supposed yes-and the idea. Keep going. Yeah. unless it's Unless you decide that you have a gun. And then that that that's always good to bring out.
00:20:39
Speaker
We'll get around to the gun. but the the ah The great thing about the show, something else that you were saying earlier was how like ah pop culture references were always a big part of the show. And every episode was kind of built around one core reference where they would heavily steal the IP from a particular film.
00:20:57
Speaker
And this was at the time where a lot of ah copyright laws were changing due to like content creation online. And so a lot of filmmaking actually became a lot easier in this sense. And it kind of gave like a a basic overview of like the the method that Matt Johnson kind of built for many people. And and surprisingly enough, many people have not taken this path yet, but it's it's important to talk about this. But this idea that like you can use pretty much any IP you would like As long as there's ingrained story-based reasons for it, ah you can prove that it's like integral to the characters themselves. This show is able to get like full tracks from movies. They're able to play scenes from films, do shot-for-shot remakes. They're just playing Nintendo. They're just playing N64 and we see the screen. Like they're not like hiding that at all.
00:21:48
Speaker
ah and Nintendo, the world's most litigious company, not going after them. It's like them and Disney are the ones who like go after people the most. and and And they're not. ah So am I not like because like why exec? Was there ever a reason that the show ended other than like, blow you know, people don't know what Viceland put like that? That's where it aired here is like Viceland and. That's where I watched it as well.
00:22:14
Speaker
That channel does not exist. Like Vice is still a thing, i believe. i Kind of. i don't I don't really read Vice news these days, but like Viceland is definitely not a thing anymore. That was that was pretty short-lived.
00:22:27
Speaker
I think Vice had one of those classic, like another company or a person with a bunch of money bought it out. And now it's not really the same thing that it used to be. And when Viceland was a television station, it came out at the worst time, right? Like Viceland was coming out as a new TV station right at the same time as like YouTube was taking over like people's casual, ah you know, viewing. Yeah.
00:22:48
Speaker
So, like, TV shows are dead at that point. But just at the right moment, Matt Johnson and J. Carroll McCarroll were able to come in and make this show. At least the first season was able to ear air the way that it was planned.
00:23:01
Speaker
But the second season... They aired it, like, outer. It's always weird when all like shows do that. Like, Arrested Development, towards the end, Fox was just throwing them, like, in random, like... okay this You can't do that with Arrested Development. like There's actually there' like a story. yeah and And if I'm not mistaken, Nirvana the Band, the show season two, the finale didn't even air for like a long time. Like they just like were playing all of the episodes from season two and you just couldn't watch the finale. And, and ah you know, we're talking about the show. We're talking about our experiences watching it on Violand. You
Distribution Challenges of 'Nirvana, the Band, the Show'
00:23:33
Speaker
know, to catch up from the last episode, like I'd seen the Dirties. I really liked the Dirties.
00:23:37
Speaker
I heard the show was coming out and I was like, yeah, sure. Let's see what this is. And from the first episode, i'm just like, oh, my God, this is like everything. From the first scene, you know, like yeah once once you see them riffing together, it's just instant magic. Like like I said, I feel like most of my audience...
00:23:53
Speaker
I had never seen like a minute of of any of of of the stuff. ah Like, I mean, more and more clips are circulating online, which is cool. I love I love that. But like, I don't I feel like like a lot of audiences are this is will be like their first exposure to it. And it works as an entry point, even though it is also a culmination and kind of a celebration of.
00:24:14
Speaker
Like everything they've, they've done. And, but also just like Matt Johnson as an artist, like, like the stuff that he's very good Cause like, like, ah like all of his stuff is like, other than Blackberry, it's like kind of, ah it's found footage. You know, like it's like, it's supposed to be like a mockumentary style thing. ah Even though, like we said, Blackberry has like the shots, like a mockumentary that'll kind of like use handheld, to cut the handheld stuff more. ah but it's It's interesting that – because, like, it almost would feel weird to put this movie in my ranking of found footage movies. Like, maybe because that genre is so ingrained with, like, horror to me that I'm like, well, yeah there should be more found footage comedies. Like, why aren't there? Like, why – like, fucking can step it up, filmmakers. Yeah. I mean, it's just – there's just a lack of – like, even all the goodwill that, like – it seemed like everyone was, like, behind Naked Gun. They were like, we love this. ah Yeah, bring comedies back. And then
Matt Johnson's Impact on Canadian Cinema
00:25:15
Speaker
it, like, made under, like, $20 million or something. Yeah, it's like – I mean, it was successful enough that –
00:25:23
Speaker
I could see not more Naked Gun movies, but like that studios would maybe try and dust. Like they'll take the wrong lesson. Be like, so are people interested in any of these old, pride like dusting off like old comedy things? Hot shots part two.
00:25:37
Speaker
Yeah. What can we reboot? Well, don't worry. ah When Scream 7 comes out, there's going to be the premiere trailer of Scream, ah sorry, Scary Movie 6.
00:25:48
Speaker
ah So, you know, get ready for that one. um um I think John Scambino is going to be in that one. Oh, I didn't know he still did anything. is it Doesn't does he owe us a movie that he like was like up tied to like ah a concept album or something?
00:26:04
Speaker
He doesn't owe me shit. I don't expect anything from him. He says so much shit. and then I mean, he gave me he gave me Atlanta, so like I can't. Sure. Bando Stone in the New World. That's what it's called. Bando Stone, a famous musician navigating a world of empty of people.
00:26:20
Speaker
so So it's like, I am legend? What? You know what that probably was? It probably was like a plan to make a COVID movie. And then he realized very quickly that like COVID was ending in America. And just for the service, that was quotations. Yeah, heavy air quotations.
00:26:36
Speaker
ah So, ah yeah, I feel like that's one of those things that just kind of got abandoned. abandoned But ah back to Nirvana, the show. um So, like, it definitely had some kind of following. I remember... ah ah There were definitely people who were watching it online talking about it. i remember really people on Reddit were talking about it. Your movie Sucks was like a big fan of Matt Johnson as well. So I feel like he did ah had a a hand in like pushing him forward in certain circles. Yeah. And when it comes to like Matt Johnson and Jamie Carroll between ah the show and where we are in the movies, like as you're talking about, we have ah Matt Johnson exploding as a filmmaker. He made Blackberry, which was like the highest grossing Canadian movie and until Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. So like
The Dynamic Chemistry of Matt and Jay: Evolution and Comedy
00:27:26
Speaker
statistically speaking, Matt Johnson is the biggest filmmaker in Canada.
00:27:30
Speaker
Like that is just true. Wow. So it's like, that like, and I'm very proud to say that. I feel like he's a great representation of like what the best we can do in some respects. Right. um And like Jay's a composer, you know, like, i' going to go yes, they both been active and kind of leveling up, building cachet in between this. And like, this feels like a one. Hold on, he's not just a composer. Jay McCarroll's not just a composer, but he's also in a band.
00:27:54
Speaker
And he made a song called Never Come Down, which is is a very popular song and is one that is often used in advertisements. And I had no idea it was made by Jay McCarroll until they reminded us many times throughout the show. I've definitely...
00:28:09
Speaker
heard like some kind of ad like maybe apple or i don't know like so it's definitely been in ads but i've never like it was never a song that like i was in my rotation i like i was i was just aware of it but like i also didn't yeah i had no idea kind of i wrote it I wouldn't be too surprised if the reason I had more exposure to this song was because it was Canadian and it had to be included because of Canadian content laws. Right. Right. But but either way, it's a catchy song, ah though. I will say when ah there is that moment where they play the the song on the piano.
00:28:44
Speaker
and it was that song specifically, they didn't even have to say it what it was. I was just like, oh fuck, why are they playing this song? That's really funny. And then it was like much later where I was like, fuck, that Jay McCarroll actually did write that song. There's layers to it.
00:28:59
Speaker
There's layers to this shit player. so they... The thing that I find interesting is that while Matt Johnson has probably had more, in quotation, success, I feel like both of them have had full careers independent of one another. And this is kind of coming back and is showing re-appreciation for one another. And from what I understand, this is kind of like a re-up. They're planning on doing a third season in another movie and stuff. That's what they're saying in interviews. Oh, I didn't realize Jay also did the score for Hell of a Summer. It's that slasher that Finn Wolfhard made. I didn't watch it but...
00:29:33
Speaker
Now that I know that I'm like, well, at least it'll sound good. Maybe we should watch it. okay Probably go synthy. Like, is he is is he is he leaning into like, yeah, I'm just curious. Like, is he going to lean into like a classic like slasher score or will he subvert it and do something wholly different with it? Which that could be interesting too. That's way more artistically fascinating than whatever Finn Wolfhard cooked up. because that It seems like a pretty pedestrian like slasher.
00:30:01
Speaker
Which I'm not, there those have value. I'm not allowed to put down a good mindless like, hey, let's watch these camp counselors get hacked up. Great. Fuck those counselors. Can't wait for camp miasma.
00:30:13
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's actually going to be great. i Well, I'm i'm assuming. But I... If this movie is, like, going to be in the top five or ten at the end of the year, like, cant Camp Miasma, that's like, okay, so that's probably going to be number one, number two. Like, we'll see, you know?
00:30:30
Speaker
ah um But the ah the thing with... um them coming back and doing this show. And the the fact that it's able to, ah you know, come back so quickly is that the format is just so simple, right? It is just two guys hanging out, one guy on a piano, one other guy riffing, right? And it that's something that can't really get old. The only thing that's holding them back is them as performers. Right. As we've established, they're kind of at the height of their powers right now. I think they just both turned 40. And like the age is only making this bit funnier. It makes it funnier. And I'll say this, like ah he's even acknowledged it on. I saw clips that he was on Stavi's podcast that he was like, like Jay's gotten hot.
00:31:15
Speaker
like ah easy i mean, he's got a little bit of salt and pepper going with his hair. I feel like that works out good for Canadian fans. comedians like when Nathan Fielder started getting like a little bit of white in his hair a lot of girls like girls were already kind of thirsty for but like once he like had the more mature look I feel like it was like went into overdrive where like no yeah everyone wants him girls want him guys want to be him I can't even imagine what the miracle over the Mojave did for him. You know, like what is his Raya app must be looking like these days.
00:31:50
Speaker
ah Just, oh, inundated. He doesn't have to send video messages like Ben Affleck. Oh. Ben. Ben.
00:32:01
Speaker
One day, like, he'll rise like the phoenix. ah On the note of Jamie Carroll, he's always looked like a fully grown adult. like he Like, even in the show, like, he's always just looked like a man. And I think that's always been really funny because Matt Johnson has always looked like a boy.
00:32:16
Speaker
And I mean, we talked about that in the dirties that it's like you can believe Matt is a kid is a teenager, but no, Jay has to be a teacher. Like like that that that's a hard line in the sand. I would call bullshit if you tried to tell me that guy was like 16 years old or something i'm like I don't think so.
00:32:37
Speaker
And also we have to talk about the costuming for Matt specifically. The idea that he's wearing like a trilby, a suit jacket, a sport jacket, I should say, and then like ripped jeans like down the front.
00:32:51
Speaker
It's hilarious. It's iconic. Like it is like, it's like a superhero costume and they treat it as such in like episodes of the show of like where he needs to suit up and to do something or the subversion of that when he like buys Jay a black hat for his birthday. And then at the end of the episode, he, yeah he's like being tempted and called the hats like calling to him and it's playing like the Heisenberg theme from breaking bad. Yeah.
Cultural References and Humor in Film
00:33:20
Speaker
And the show's able to do this because of these, ah you know, copyright laws that were established. Oh, And then it's able to, you know, go beyond reference humor at points ah because it feels like it's natural to these characters. It's beyond just references at that point. It feels right for these characters to do be doing these things. It doesn't feel forced. And you can feel the genuine love for these things that they're referencing. But then also like, yeah, it just feels like there's more because it's so ingrained into the story we're seeing unfold ah that.
00:33:53
Speaker
Like compare, i take some random shots at some, some other, like, let's say like references in like South Park or Family Guy or something where it's like, there's an ironic detachment to that. And it's like, it, it just comes, uh, eventually just comes across as kind of cynical of like, you're just cashing in on the thing that people recognize. Whereas it, you don't get any of that feeling here. It's like totally genuine.
00:34:18
Speaker
As we've discussed with, like, how Matt's, ah you know, and filmmaking and improvisation, they're kind of bleeding together. The same is true about the appreciation for pop culture, where, like, yes, these characters care about these films, but that also is apparently the feelings of Matt as well and Jay as well. Like, that whenever there is a film that they're referencing in the show, that's a show, that the movie that they genuinely like. Right. They know that also that they're going to, like...
00:34:47
Speaker
parody it as if they are these characters where they are only obsessed over like iconography you know or they're like something like the Star Wars episode where it's like they're sitting right close to the television right like it's like which doing that and combining it with Netflix Daredevil is just amazing what did chef's kiss goes blind from having his eyes too close to the teeth it's it's it's great I still think my personal favorite is like the final episode where you do like a whole dog day afternoon riff and then you end with John Cena. Like that's just...
00:35:18
Speaker
It's just like like you that's why they're the best in the game, you know. And we've we've talked about this another in the dirties, but like his their style is like, yeah, it's and improv heavy. There is a story, but then they're also incorporating real people as as like extras in this story. And sometimes it does feel like you can you can tell where the lines are. Of like, okay, this is definitely the scripted bit, but it does feel like a magic trick sometimes. Like, we'll get to, like, later parts of of of the movie, but where I'm like, I'm quite, I'm like, well, this seems like they're just re repurposing all their footage, but I don't know. This almost almost feels like, like, is is some of that real? Like...
00:36:01
Speaker
it
Authenticity Through Real People in 'Nirvana, the Band, the Show'
00:36:02
Speaker
it's it's really well done to the point where you're like not 100% sure on and I think that's good like we could we could talk about our thoughts on like what things we do like for example the bank robbery episode by virtue of what they're doing all of that has to be screwed like they're obviously there's not a real bank robbery but the crowd outside reacting to gathering around seeing what i like I think they think there's a real like hostage situation in progress mm-hmm I'm not sure if you're familiar with this because this is like a Canadian staple, but do you know like Just for Laughs gags? Gags, have you heard of this show?
00:36:37
Speaker
No. So this was a show that was like an offshoot of Just for Laughs, which used to be like the premier like stand-up thing. Yes. in Especially Canada and a bit in America.
00:36:49
Speaker
um And in ah Montreal specifically, they used to make this – not Montreal, I should say Quebec – They used to make this show called Just for Laughs Gags, where it was entirely silent and it was all about like pranks in public that were all sight gags. Right. And this used to be on television all the time. You know, growing up in Canada, if you turn on the television at eight o'clock, there's a chance that like two different stations were playing Just for Laughs Gags.
00:37:15
Speaker
Right. And when I watched Nirvana the Band, the show, it feels like a show that was born out of being brought up on that show. It feels like ah something that like could only exist from that. People obviously bring up Borat all the time.
00:37:28
Speaker
But this show is made in the same vein as like a prank show where, you know, they're doing something. And the ah idea of other people becoming a part of it is often incidental.
00:37:40
Speaker
Like they're they're doing these things in public and the reactions from people are just what the camera people catch. Yeah. Right. Right. um And ah when it comes to like integrating somebody into the plot, you can always see when it's clearly like when it's being delivered, you can get the vibe where it's like you you can be like, OK, that's an actor. Whereas there there's like a there's just like ah ah an awkwardness to how a real person behaves on camera.
00:38:06
Speaker
You know that that' like when they go to a place like the Toronto Library. Right. Like, and you know that how they've been shooting this already where they're in corners and stuff. And it's like, there's no way that they're just like hiring out an actor to work at that counter. That's just somebody who's working their job and they're asking them an innocuous question or whatever with maybe a hint of sarcasm.
00:38:24
Speaker
And, ah you know, it's it just seems like an odd person throughout the day rather than like a part in a bigger television show. Yeah, I wonder how those people feel like because like I assume they're not getting releases for like most of it. I mean, like maybe ah yeah I got to get releases for those people, especially the people who are on camera, like who are on blurred in the public and on blurred.
00:38:47
Speaker
They probably got releases for those people. Right, but, like, ah you they still don't know in the moment, like, what it's for, you know, like, unless they happen to be fans, but, like, like and when they if they see the final product, like, i I would be tickled and, like, be like, oh, that's fucking cool if I found out. But, like, I wonder, like, are some people, like, it's been had. But, like, we've talked about before, it's not like Borat where the joke is on the people. It's on the, it's their reaction to Jay and Matt making assholes of themselves. Like, that that's, like,
00:39:18
Speaker
they're out in public being goofballs and then you see real people like looking a scan of like what the fuck is that and and it's always great because like toronto is such a great uh people city right like the the people in toronto are very talkative they're very friendly and like if a situation's going down you're going to get a crowd right like like people are very uh curious in that way So when you're doing that in a city like Toronto, the same thing would happen in New York, et cetera. But at the same time, it's a situation where ah people kind of gravitate towards chaos in a way. And ah when your entire brand is just inspiring the most amount of chaos as humanly possible,
00:40:02
Speaker
you're going to attract those flies, right? So, like, i think that all of the pieces just kind of line up perfectly. This is a show that while it's constructed, there are bits, there are moments that are written. It's also a show that allows for enough freedom to allow things to happen without it, you know, being ah disorganized.
00:40:24
Speaker
it It
Emotional Depth in Comedy: A Surprising Element
00:40:25
Speaker
actually feels like a big part of how this is accomplished is going into it with only, like, three quarters of a plan. And the rest of it does work itself out because like the X factor is a part of the comedy.
00:40:38
Speaker
Yeah. And it's just a testament to the performances and the riffing, which we keep giving credit to the the you know, the directing itself, but also just ah the editing, I feel like is a huge part. I was really appreciating and like it like this in the movie of like, where it, like I said before, it feels like a magic trick of like how they're able to weave these wood,
00:41:00
Speaker
could feel like disparate parts together, but it does end up feeling like part of a whole, especially this movie has a story that I found pretty touching. Like, i don't know, maybe I'm just a stupid dope these days, but I was like, ah this I felt, you know, it it it it tucked at my heartstrings in a way that where it's like,
00:41:20
Speaker
In the show, i'm I'm laughing and enjoying, like, I can feel the sincerity and I'm appreciating, like, just, like, the go-getter-ness of, like, what they're they're doing. But, like, I don't, I didn't really respond like, it there are, like, quote, quote, like, arcs, like, within, the like like, season two, like,
00:41:41
Speaker
when When the band gets on the band list and he has to, like, get the hack them to to get it off or or something. But, like, ah i'm I'm not, like, being like, oh, i'm I'm invested in these. I am invested in them as a duo and, like, that. But, like, it's not like I am...
00:41:58
Speaker
ah is Does it make sense what i'm saying where I'm like not having like like that kind of sappy emotional attachment to it? But like in the movie, I'm like, oh, this is so sweet. Well, there's there's a few references. I've heard like a couple of Matt Johnson interviews in the wake of this. And the the two things I've heard him bring up a couple of times in relation to this film is like the seven up ah series and Richard Linklater. Yeah. This idea of like seeing onscreen progression of people, right, and naturally seeing how they've changed, I think is actually at play here. Like the idea that Matt and Jay are older and thus they need to carry themselves differently. But then in the situation of this show, what makes this show so funny is that they are stagnant. They can't change. They can't grow.
00:42:46
Speaker
Right. ah They can't boy boyhood. Boyhood took 12 years to grow. I mean, to so it took 12 years to film this Nirvana, the band, the movie 17 years. Suck it. Link later.
00:42:58
Speaker
yeah You know? um But ah this is, like, the key difference between this and a franchise like Clerks, right? Because, like, you know, when you've got Clerks trying to do, like, rectifying with the the times, you'll get Randall saying something like, Naruto, no, I know about Naboo. You know, like, that's that's the extent of modern commentary they'll do, right? And when it comes to, like...
00:43:25
Speaker
Nirvana the band the show like you can tell that they've moved into a modern context and rather than you know changing what the bit means in some kind of way that makes it stale it only makes it funnier because they are older their bodies feel kind of weird in these outfits right like you can tell like because Matt Johnson like he's kind of a buff dude at this point you can see that his arms are bullshit yeah in interviews when his arms are out i'm like what the fuck what role is that what'd you do that for just just to do it just to be healthy like an asshole he's been buffed for a while now I think he's been buffed for like like since COVID for sure Matt and Mara the romantic comedy he did not too long ago like he's fantastic in that movie by the way but like when I was ah watching that one ah like I was just like his biceps are just like destroying every t-shirt he's wearing it's crazy yeah
00:44:13
Speaker
um But the the thing ah that's also funny is that as you're talking about, there's the salt and pepper with Jay McCarroll. And he's definitely grown into the adult, right? And in the show before, right, like the kind of dynamic they had was like ah kind of like trying to impress a friend, right? And now it's like they're trying to impress someone who's even more than a friend, right? And i think that that's where the show, with sorry, this movie, we're transitioning into the movie now. Uh, the way that this one is able to build on that last one is that this relationship relationship means even more to Matt now. And, and also we should point out, cause like we should start moving through the plot. The plot opens up with like a flashback to the original series web show.
00:44:57
Speaker
Yeah. And I'll, I'll just say like, like if you haven't seen it, go see it. Cause like, yeah, we were going to spoil it. If there is a story, like it is, it is more fun if you don't know where any of this is going.
00:45:07
Speaker
We spent like an hour talking about the show, right? yeah And I'll just say this plainly, like every good thing that we've said about the show, you can just take that and put this on this movie. the The things that you will miss in our appreciation for the movie will be the ways that it built upon the show. So for whatever reason, you haven't been spoiled yet. This is a great time to leave because and come back later on because ultimately like so much of what makes this movie work is somehow finding a way to capture that lightning in a bottle to bring it back to now. um But yeah, so so with the when they flash to the present day, I think that it's really important that it's established that today in the film is going to be their last try at the Rivoli. Like Jay already seems to be out the door in the mental sense, right? He's said today is the last thing we're going to do. and and And the reason the movie doesn't feel that way, the movie just feels like another romp, right?
00:46:03
Speaker
right because Because
Technical Marvels: Skydive Scenes and Beyond
00:46:05
Speaker
Matt doesn't change because Matt is just a fucking rock in that sense. And to him, he's like, oh, well, we'll be doing this tomorrow. Like he, it is not a part of his, you know, mental state that Jay is about to be out the door.
00:46:18
Speaker
Yeah. The arc is really Jay and like, uh, him being reaffirmed of like, no, this friendship is important. that Like, uh, actually, even if we're not getting the success that we wanted, like, this is, i would rather have this than just be like my own act. And it's just so funny when he's calling the, the venue about the open mic.
00:46:40
Speaker
And he, it's like, it's, he's acting like he's like, like doing like a drug deal over the phone, almost like the, like, he's like afraid he's going to get caught. pot He's like, and it can just be like a solo act. Right.
00:46:53
Speaker
No, no. jays Jay's doing so much in that scene because he does that. And then like when she's giving him more information and stuff, he's like twirling the cord as if he's like, you know, on the phone with somebody's dating. Yeah. Right. It's it's hilarious. and then And then he goes, he like whispers, he goes like, so so that means I'm like, I'm playing a gig tomorrow. She doesn't understand what he means. It's like, like she thinks he means he has another gig. And like, she's like, no, so I have a gig tomorrow. Oh, yeah.
00:47:22
Speaker
Sure, whatever you want. Now let's take a quick step back for a second, right? Just talk about how this is made, right? So the what we're watching is essentially a prank phone call, right? Like Jay is just calling somebody and is just like who is working at the Lafayette, and he's playing this as if he's sincerely asking this question. And this person on the phone has no idea that they're a part of a movie right now. Right? Because he does sound so sincere. Like, there is no... They can't really break... care I mean, they're playing themselves... They're playing altered versions of them... Heiden versions of themselves, I guess. But there's, like, not really a way for them to break characters. So, it like, it does feel all so... real Like, yeah I believe that, like, if I...
00:48:04
Speaker
did it, you know, wasn't aware of the show and I got a call like that, I'd just be like, yeah, this is just a regular guy who seems to be way too into the idea of showing up to this open mic. Yeah.
00:48:17
Speaker
Acting like he's a fucking rock star. Yeah. Now, great scene, ah but also it skips over a lot. And I want to jump back because... No, yeah. i were The fucking skydive into the Sky Dome.
00:48:31
Speaker
Okay. So let's say... up to Because, like, it in in a certain way, it's almost like trying to parse through the the and ambiguous parts of of the leftovers of, like, you know, what was real and what was in people's heads. It's like it kind of ultimately doesn't matter. But I do, just from a production standpoint, want to think about, like... What are the actual like real bit like what were they actually doing and like where I can tell you.
00:48:54
Speaker
I know what ah I know what they did because I can tell it like it's it's not that because because they do such a good job. We got to say that right. Yeah. Like ah when when I was going to see this with my friend the reason my friend wanted to see this movie the marketing worked on them. They thought that they actually jumped off the CN Tower. The marketing made them think that they actually jumped off the CN Tower and he was excited to see that. Beyond any comedy, right? He just wanted to see them jump off the CN Tower. So i was like, you know what? I'm glad to watch this movie with you. But they did film real stuntmen diving. Yeah, like if they did. Well, they did that right for sure. And they definitely went up on the CN Tower and definitely filmed like the moments like went through security. Definitely. ah
00:49:37
Speaker
On the Skywalk. Definitely. Jumping off, literally jumping off and everything after that, they must have, must have made a at home like recreation of the CN Tower and green screen copied themselves into that. And the parachute itself around the CN Tower happened to the deposit.
00:49:59
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with that, with the composite ah part, but or Matt just threw a dummy off like the top of the top. Because, like, it happened so fast, but I feel like on rewatch, I want to go frame by frame and be like, because, like, I'm like, it doesn't. I will say it looks like a green screen. I will say. Jay McCarroll looks like a dream drew green screen when he's falling down. Like, like I don't buy that effect specifically. The best effect is him being thrown off the ledge that and paired with the the plier cutting. That is such an amazing like just from a filmmaking standpoint, when you get that on the security camera footage. Right. Yeah. My my heart is pumping. Right. Like they're selling all of this so well. And we haven't even talked about like the way that they're filming all of this, which is on basic camcorders, but not even basic at this point. The camcorder they use to shoot on of this one's like a more modern one. It probably costs like four thousand dollars. But still like shooting 4K at this kind of image quality where the sensor isn't all that great detail isn't all always all there. um Makes you feel more real.
00:51:03
Speaker
It makes it be feel more real, but it also doesn't sacrifice the enormity of everything that's going on. Like this has the same kind of ah wow factor that a Mission Impossible film can inspire. Well, then the score sounds like some Lorne Balfi or Hans Zimmer kind of like, and it could very well be like, almost for some, like, is this Dark Knight score? Like as they're like going up the the tower, it's it's like escalating. I definitely felt that same way.
00:51:29
Speaker
Like the theck yeah kind of like like almost Inception to like definitely that era of Christopher Nolan. And considering they go back to 2008, that's not too far off. ah They see a Dark Knight poster. I mean, we'll get to that part. That's also like one of my favorite magic trick, like like of editing, like everything that happens in 2008. Because like I was I was loving that everything about it.
00:51:52
Speaker
i Hey, look. I've grown up my whole life in Toronto, you know, like in in terms of like, i've but like this Canada is my home. Right. So to get back to that time period, like literally like we can't get there just yet. yeah We got to talk about the Skydome sequence because like, let's maybe like go back a bit, maybe talk about when they're going to Canadian Tire to get the pliers. Right. I love that they're wearing the parachutes under themselves the entire time. So they've got this kind of like ninja circle. little thing going on yeah it's like a little hunchback thing going on and that guy is amazing at the store uh like asking reasonable questions of like what what do you wait what are you about to do with with these and then i like that he was just like well you could do whatever you want i'm a libertarian amazing
00:52:42
Speaker
I love that he had to throw that in there for whatever reason. But then still you could tell, like, by his character. Because, like, he said that, but then he was so, like, worried about them. He was like, but as a sane person. Like, that he literally said, as a sane person, I have to, like, you know, show good. And, like, he would even, like, dap up Matt when Matt's trying to like, you know, like. Yep. yeah leave leave and give him like a high five or something like he won't do it because he's probably just like what the fuck who the fuck are these psychos and and to zoom out again right for matt to perform the sequence right like all he needs to do is push forward him as a performer right he already knows that he's got a point a at a point b and any kind of difficulty he has to get to point b is just caused by the social interaction
00:53:31
Speaker
So the more difficult the social interaction is based on the opposite end, the better the scene is going to be. Right. So in terms of like exactly what they needed for this kind of thing, it's perfect. Right. And also the fact that it takes place in a Canadian tire, you know, again, gosh, shout out. There's going to be a lot of Canadian stuff. We got a shout out here.
00:53:51
Speaker
Oh, have they mentioned Orbitz at this point? and I think that's when they're doing the yeah the initial plan. So that's a... I've never had Orbitz, it but that was a thing. Neither have No, okay. Because the apparently, yeah I guess they ran out in 1999. Yeah.
00:54:06
Speaker
it so It almost sounds like a Crystal Pepsi-esque, like... Like this was very limited, so very funny human giant sketch where Paul Scheer has a time machine and he goes back to September 11th. They do. There's like two versions of it because I had the I was I was that was one of my sketch shows like when I was like a teenager. So ah the the original version is he goes back to September 11th and he comes and everyone is like, oh, so you went to, you know, you stopped the terrorist text. He's like, no, I got Crystal Pepsi.
00:54:37
Speaker
Yeah. And
Absurdity and Humor in 'Nirvana, the Band, the Show'
00:54:41
Speaker
then the other version was like, oh, so you went back to see your dad and tell him you loved him before he had the heart attack. And he's like, it's all, he just went back for the crystal best.
00:54:52
Speaker
Good bit. That's good bit. Paul Scheer, he's a funny guy. follows Follows me on ah but whatever the fake Twitter is, Blue Sky. oh he does? He follows you on Blue Sky? That's awesome. But not on Twitter. I've interacted ah with his posts so much more on Twitter.
00:55:11
Speaker
i mean... i don't know, maybe just foreign militant and don't shut up about certain things. No, no. Hey, he he's he's a lib, you know? li Libs go to blue sky, you know, in that sense, you know? yeah and And kudos to them, you know? So I, you know. I'm hanging with the mouse and anarchist baby. Exactly. We're fighting back against the hard right over your hard right.
00:55:34
Speaker
yeah Mike's hard right. nothing like a why i left the lemonade oh man uh so when it comes to ah the orbits right you're bringing up orbits uh so i've never tried it but it's also like one of those drinks i've seen in like those youtube videos where it's like weirdest soda drinks that ever existed you know like i've never actually watched those things but they exist yeah um and like orbits i definitely know of the new of its existence by you know it's not like a crystal pepsi where that's more front of mind so the fact that this whole movie is built around it is pretty funny in that sense um because it feels like product placement for a product that doesn't exist which is very funny because it's not like it's but then they also talk about how shit it is like at no point does anybody say that it tastes good
00:56:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great flashback to like, and ah it's a recurring bit in the show of like the flashback and like the slowed down audio combined with the black and white. And then they're just adding scenes that they, yeah where we didn't see before. And it's usually them being like meaner than we saw before. It'll be like, one of my favorite ones is in, I think it's when they go to a film festival and then, uh,
00:56:54
Speaker
he remembers that Jay was like ah chastising Matt for plans of sneaking around. He's no one's ever got anywhere sneaking around, you fat fuck. like I love those flashbacks because the...
00:57:11
Speaker
they're the same for both characters in a way yeah where it's like they both are are held down by their own like insecurities. And that's even proven when the whole time travel business starts to happen, like ah that's still ultimately their undoing. um But what the, the,
00:57:28
Speaker
Stuff with the orbits is funny, but do I want to really laser into the Skydome thing because we haven't talked about like you know the meaning of it as well as like how it like feels in the latter half. I feel like the parachuting section when you're getting like the the clipping audio is just so wonderful.
00:57:48
Speaker
yeah Talking about like found footage again, right? This is like what you would get in like the last five minutes of Cloverfield. And we're getting this in the first 20 minutes of this movie. Right. and And then there's still big set pieces to come. It's not like they blow their load.
00:58:02
Speaker
Like, you know, like there's so action movies that begin with their big stunt. And then you're like, oh, OK, nothing else is going to live up to that. But it's like, no, they still have other tricks up their sleeve. i Like, that's that's just this is the beginning. Yeah.
00:58:16
Speaker
This is just like an impressive feat for a filmmaker to do. This is like this is like the climax of the great train robbery happening in the first 20 minutes for sure, right? And then when it comes to ah the rest of the movie, I'm far more invested. Like ah the Sky Dome stuff is really well executed and I will probably show that to people to get them to watch this movie. But also when I think about my favorite aspects of this film, my favorite scenes from this film,
00:58:42
Speaker
I kind of almost forget about the Skydome scene. And I wanted to say that just because of how much I love this scene. Yeah, no, because like I feel like when we get to it, lost so much of my favorite stuff is in the 2008. Like once we were fully into the the back to the future stuff. And I'll just say up front, I guess tied for best back to the future with the first one, i would I would say like this is like better than the other sequel.
00:59:06
Speaker
Not that they're bad, like it's ah it's a fun trilogy. It's just as as a kid, I always gravitate to one and two. Those ones were just on more. Also, I didn't like Westerns when I was a kid, really. i just like i was like, oh, that's like dad stuff. You know, like now now I'm into dad. I'm like, oh, The Godfather is actually who the best film ever.
00:59:25
Speaker
well well Well, two is kind of like a bloated mess, but it's a lot of fun, right? Yeah. Like jaw the Jaws 3D parody is funny like every time for me. And and just the Zemeckis-y like yes down the line he gets too enamored with the tech and like what he can do but like just the simple editing tricks of like having Marty go through the previous movie is like was was like almost like mind-blowing to me. I was like... I didn't know you could do that. How, what the fuck? And like, this movie is just doing it for fun. Nirvana the band is just like, Hey, we can do this too. You know? And with, with footage that like is way older and less good quality.
01:00:05
Speaker
And, and then with the the third movie, like it's just a hangout movie almost. You kind of have to just kind of throw it on and then the climax is really good. And then it's over. um But the the thing about Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie as a time travel film is that it's still like it it kind of almost has more in common with like It's a Wonderful Life than it does Back to the Future because so much of it is just rooted in these kind of like heated, selfish, emotional like things.
01:00:34
Speaker
well, I wish I was never born kind of things, right? And in this circumstance as well, I wish we, you know, broke up earlier and never played. Right. right And ah because it's, you know obviously there's the whole structure around Back to the Future, but when it comes to ah their driving principles, it's not that they're just, you know, some high school kid that hopped in the DeLorean. This time around, there's actually goals for them to work towards and they They have better emotional motivations than the actual Back to the Future.
01:01:05
Speaker
that Take, right? But Zemeckis was able to get away with it because he was so great back then, right? And, and hey, Matt Johnson's doing pretty fucking great right now. So that's that's why you're like talking about it in this sense, right? um But I love the whole, ah like, Matt decides to make a time machine to try to... So so he makes... it's a time It's a time. He wants to create fake time travel. Make a safe time machine.
01:01:35
Speaker
ah Like so he can create videos that look like they're from the the past and and and that they're being sent to the future or something. yeah ah This is just another scheme to get into the Rivoli, but he's like going through the trouble of building... All these like he's like taking notes on the parts of the like the DeLorean. And then he just puts it in an RV that to my knowledge, they never use in the show. Like the fact that they just have an RV in the back. I i don't remember that ever being a part of anything. that They just have it. bad I'm like, oh, you guys have an RV. So like I've heard kind of whispers, but I do think that they like for either like the third season or for the next movie, there's like some a concept where they drove across Canada in the ah RV. Yeah.
01:02:16
Speaker
So like, I think that that's where it's from. And then they just made this movie using that RV after the fact. So this is almost like,
Special Effects and Real Events: Blurring Fiction and Reality
01:02:24
Speaker
imagine if like the continuity with this, like this is sometimes kind of like beloved prop, right? From the first few projects. And now this is like turned being turned into something different.
01:02:34
Speaker
This is a situation where like somehow this movie came first and now it is being introduced in this context. Yeah. But I do love that it's introduced in this context that it's like you have things on it. You know, it's been sitting there for years. Yeah, there's just tarp over it. It's like, you guys you guys never use this? Right? Who's this? How did this get here? They walk everywhere?
01:02:54
Speaker
yeah Right? Like... And also, like, but let's just be real for a second. Right. Like, how are they paying for that house? Right. Do they buy that house in Toronto? Right. That's millions of dollars. and I feel like you got to just have Bert and Ernie logic where it's like they just live together and they have a place like, you know. like But we know that they moved.
01:03:14
Speaker
We know that they once lived in a worse place. How did they get that new place? Yeah. That's true. I don't know. They have a higher budget now. That's how. I guess. I guess.
01:03:26
Speaker
Do you know the budget on this movie, by the way? What is it? It's $2 million. dollars That's a lot more than I thought it was. It's a lot more, but also in movie budget terms is is a drop in the bucket. But I could see where that is coming from. Like, like there's... so like there's ah There's a lot of subtle, like, you know, like we talked about editing tricks, but there's like, especially as we get deeper into 2008, like just like effects shots that are like, I'm like, oh, this is pretty good for something that I'm, was you know, like an independent movie.
01:04:00
Speaker
ah I mean, they have the advantage of like, they're copying an aesthetic of what the, you know, the streaks from the DeLorean look like, like when it time travels, although it almost looked like they were mixing in a little bit of like,
01:04:14
Speaker
Because, like, I just remember, like, just the straight-up fire as behind the DeLorean as it goes forward. But, like, there's, like like, blue streams that almost look a little bit like the Ghostbuster, like, Proton. ah It's not usually, like, that sound effect, but it's, like, it it visually is kind of, it's, like, just like it's just 80s coming out of the the RV. I know what you're referencing. Yes. The the ectoplasm, we'll call it.
01:04:37
Speaker
Yeah. Mm-hmm. the the The one thing I will say, just to build off of your point about how good the special effects are in this movie, like there are so many moments in this movie that look better than Hollywood films, like specifically the stuff on the CN Tower when Matt's climbing up the ladder and he opens the hatch.
01:04:58
Speaker
All of that stuff is incredible. i like i Again, they must have built like a false CN Tower you know space, and they shot a green screen that way, and that's how they did it. But it like when you've got the shot of the the cameraman, and he like is stepping around Matt, and there's no support, I'm losing my mind. And it looks way better than like any kind of Marvel movie I've ever seen.
01:05:23
Speaker
And it it it can be done so cheap, because all that matters is the know-how of how to make it work. Right. And I'm also wondering if some of that budget, like, because they use, it's not just, like, I'm sure the fair use parody law covers them for so much, but it's like,
01:05:39
Speaker
I mean, i guess I guess all of it would still fall and under that because, like, you see in the credits when they list all the different sources of stuff. Because I watched i stayed through the whole credits. and And, like, there's, like, stuff that they're – because, like, ah we already said spoilers. So, like, you know, when when they're showing, like, the montage of all the, like, publicity stuff Jay did in the timeline where he's famous, you you'd see, like, where they pulled – like, that was actually an interview with P. Diddy on Alex.
01:06:06
Speaker
They just did ah yeah ah they did a very Zemeckis-y like edit, you know, like, ah you know, like very similar to the Forrest Gump where it's like, let's just put him in these in these situations.
01:06:17
Speaker
Do you know how they got his mansion? No. Is that just like someone they knew? no, no Doug. It's amazing. Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug. I'm glad I can give you this information. Okay.
01:06:30
Speaker
So did you know that there was a shooting by Drake's house? but like Like at his property in Toronto. Did you know that? Yes. Yes.
01:06:42
Speaker
So when that happened, Matt Johnson and Jay McCarroll were doing another interview. They finished that interview, took their cameras and ran over there. And the CP24 footage that they have of like, you know, the reporter talking about Jay McCarroll.
01:06:57
Speaker
In the real footage, she's talking about Drake. And if you were to zoom out the footage a little bit, you would see Matt Johnson on the side directing. You would see him pointing camera, like a camera person. And Jay McCarroll is running up to the gate, pretending to run away from the police and stuff. They shot at the exact same time that all of that stuff was going down. The the press conference with the police chief and all that stuff. ah i was I was like, this is...
01:07:21
Speaker
This just seems very real, well especially because the detail they're talking about is like the victim is in critical condition. Like it doesn't match up actually with what we saw because they're like critical condition. That guy is dead. Yeah. And the suspect is still at large. All that stuff. Right. Like it's very broad. Right.
01:07:39
Speaker
And ah but at the same time, that's how they did it. Right. Was they literally just went to Drake's house. And they just were able to get, including like interior stuff too. um So when it comes to all of that, this just speaks to how they were able to do that. i don't know. I'm trailing off now. Finally, some use out of Drake. That's great.
01:07:58
Speaker
yeah Finally, he's giving back, right? When was the last time he did something good for us? You know, all of his money is going to gambling, you know? Become a Raptors fan again, Drake. At least then I was like, okay with you.
01:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, let's do something for the people. ah But let's go back to the where where we were in the plot. So we did the tower. I'm just going refer to it as like the tower heist because that's what it feels like. It has the energy of like a Mission Impossible heist.
01:08:25
Speaker
ah Going through the security with the pliers, that that speaks to just Canadian interactions like at large. i Because America, you you get something like that that's even remotely sus, you're probably going to get detained or something. 100%. You're going to get shot. Yeah.
01:08:42
Speaker
you depends Depends on your color, but you will be at least questioned so ah aggressively. ah You'll be seen as a threat, whereas it's like very polite. Like they just have to ask, you know, and they call it in and they're like, yeah, they both ask, so why? Why do you have And I like that he says pliers instead of like cutter, you know, like bolt cutters or cutters or anything. He's like, yeah, he's got pliers. And the guy on other side is like, what for? He's like, if we're like cutting jeans or something. Amazing. Amazing. Like, ah man, like again, sitting in a silent movie theater, silent movie. theater How is that not crushing? Like, that's just funny. Like, you don't need to know anything about this beforehand. Like that that's, that's just absurd and funny like, and that, and that it would be taken at face value and, and, and the shot of him, like pulling out the, but the cutters again after they get through security. It's so good. Yeah.
01:09:41
Speaker
this This is all so funny. If it were all scripted, right, it would be funny, right? The fact that it is not scripted makes it even funnier in my books, right? Like, and and and and we've already seen, like, they're going through security and their turtle, they're still doing the turtle thing. They still have yeah parachutes on their back going through i was thinking, i was like, oh, I guess they get them.
01:10:02
Speaker
yeah I thought, there yeah, something from their parachute was going to go off. was like, I guess those aren't metal, but like, yeah, of course he has the cutters. and and And I love um the suiting up sequence, like with the you get the escalator and then like they're they're, you know, suiting up. We've talked about the music already, but you can tell that there's like a moment where like the reality of the situation is setting in a bit where everyone's like, are we really doing this?
High Stakes and Emotional Arcs: Jay and Matt's Friendship
01:10:27
Speaker
And it's a markedly different tone than what the rest of the show has ever felt like. Right. Like the show has never been like this dire, this serious before. And I think that's a great way for us to kind of come in again, because, again, it's been 17 years from the start of the show. It's been like ah maybe a decade since the show ended. Right. So like we're we're definitely coming back on the last day at these heightened stakes. stakees like there's there's something really cool about this. One one last heist. and And again, that's just behaving the exact same way.
01:11:03
Speaker
Yeah, which sets up like Jay's arc perfectly because, yeah, a perfectly reasonable person would be ah very scared to do this and and then also upset because like that he just gets pushed off.
01:11:22
Speaker
And that the plan doesn't work. it's like It's like the combination of the two is like... Because Jay's shown trepidation before, but then he's usually like sold or brought around or kind of like unknowingly still going along with it. Like even if he does like is like, I don't know if this idea is any good, but then he's still is just, you know, following Matt because that that's just how loyal they are. But like...
01:11:44
Speaker
ah this was This is the line in the sand. I mean, it would be like having a near-death experience. I mean, i would if someone pushed me off of a very tall thing, I would be pretty upset.
01:11:57
Speaker
think that's grounds for friendship termination. I think that's like a very sound, you know, place to call it. and and And one thing I will say, too, on this note that we're talking about here, right, because when we get that flashback at the beginning of the movie and it's this ah Flyers ah plan that they have, which is just like a poorly cropped image of themselves with no information. That speaks to like all of the of the plans, right? It's where on paper, okay, flyers, that's a good idea, right? Okay, we're going print out flyers, going to put them around. But the problem is, is that they suck at making flyers and they suck at posting them and they're getting into like fights about posting the flyers, all that stuff, right?
01:12:38
Speaker
So, okay, skydiving into the Sky Dome. Okay, like definitely a jump up from what was before, but that's a great publicity stunt in terms of like, people would be talking about it, right? But it's all of these, like, minor failures where pushing him off is crazy. And then this fact that the Sky Dome closes right before they're getting down there, right? Yeah. Like, maybe we can open it, right? Yeah.
01:13:04
Speaker
And I love it. It just cuts. It just cuts to them with like blankets on thanking the fire, fire, fire. They have to call the fire department to get them down. That's something I want to touch on, too.
01:13:15
Speaker
So so this movie does something that many Canadian films never do, which is like the real ways that those like our law enforcement, whether it be firefighters, ambulance people or police officers. This is what they actually look like in Canada. Right. When you watch any kind of like things set in Canada, usually they have to change the ah the uniforms. Usually they have to like, you know, make it a bit different. But every time every kind of uniform you see for like a, you know, civil servant, whatever you want to call them. That's what they're actually look like in Canada, in Toronto specifically. And that's really cool to me because usually they they they just stay away from that entirely.
01:13:54
Speaker
I mean, it just grounds the whole thing because because to me, I'm not questioning if those are real firefighters or like I'm thinking about the context of like what they said to him to get that shot. But I'm not I'm not quite I'm like, yeah, that that's those seem like real firefighters.
01:14:09
Speaker
did Did they like bring their own blankets when they saw firefighters and they just kind of ran through it? Because he like shakes one of their hands. Because Matt's pretty much just like a human, you know, there's old memes of like, oh, the ideal boyfriend is like a ah human golden retriever. But that's what Matt literally is, where he's just like excited about not just the plans, but just everyone in general. Yeah.
01:14:31
Speaker
It's a girl from Brazil or somewhere. There's, there's a girl who's like vacated, like from somewhere else outside of the, the, the sky dome. And like, he introduces them like just how excited he is to talk to like anybody. Like a they can help it builds the whole thing of like, you can get all these like candid reaction things, but then it, it makes sense for the character too. Cause he'll just like, we'll barge into thing to a total stranger and just be like, Hey, what's going on? I'll tell you, going to quickly tell you what my deal is with no context. Yeah.
01:15:00
Speaker
I want to dig deeper on that golden retriever ah comparison because I do feel like he's a golden retriever that sometimes bites people, you know? Like, there's always that kindness, right? There's always that warmth. But then, like, he will take advantage of that because he's the opportunity to. Like, he will he will make somebody else's day worse to get something that makes his life very like minusculely better you know so like that that's the charm of Matt right that's the thing that makes him a compelling character anyways this whole Sky Dome thing is terrible it doesn't work and we've already talked about Jay like calling the
01:15:38
Speaker
um you know, ah Lafayette to talk about doing the open mic. Knowing nothing about Canadian geography, i was, i until she said how far away it was, I was like, the joke is either it's really close or it's really far. I was like, I i have no idea.
01:15:54
Speaker
the The joke to me is that why didn't he just take the train, you know? Like, if if he's going to take the ah RV, why didn't he just go to Union Station and take the train to Ottawa? Like, it may have taken longer, but at least he would have had a nice scenic route. He wouldn't have had to worry about taking the ah RV or, you know, he disturbing that, right? Because that also paints him in a dark... Like, I feel like we've never seen...
01:16:16
Speaker
jay act like selfish because he's so like like he's like a loyal soldier almost but like that it's like he knows that matt is using ah rv for his own plan but he's like no i'm taking this i need to take care of me and ah you know i was kind of reading it initially as like he just needs to do this gig to like have some something of his own but was but then just like you find out like no he was actually like leaving forever Like, like that was, he was just done. Well, like there, there have been many points in the show where Jay has almost done that exact thing. Right.
01:16:51
Speaker
Like the, the, my dinner with Andre episode is, is one of the best in my eyes. Right. And it's for this exact reason. Right. And when it when there's this whole sequence, i actually want to go back to Matt for a second. So there was that whole sequence where ah he's trying to do this time travel plan. And then you get that moment where like he spills the orbits, he puts out the fire, he laughs for a second and says something to the camera. Then he runs to the bottom bunk and just sits there in the darkness. And like, there there are moments like that on the show as well.
01:17:24
Speaker
But like, because of the added context of everything we've said before, right? Like that that this is their last day together, right? That all of this is going to be... There's something more sinister to it. That's it, right? Like, yeah is he about to duke? Because the camera guy leaves. Like, like it's like almost out of fear. And also someone pointed out his ah silhouette, like from outside the RV, looks very ah similar to the Babadook. I don't know if that was an intentional reference or not, but... He has a very Babadookian silhouette.
01:17:54
Speaker
And then that makes it even better when Jay is leaving and he's still in the bed. And I love that moment when Matt wakes up and he's like terrified. He's like looking around. He's like, like i think he's upset that he's moving more than anything else.
01:18:08
Speaker
well And I like how he quickly pivots to that, to like ah trying to ah like getting angry at ah Jay, even though he doesn't know the full situation yet, because Jay is like, oh, I can explain. He's like, explain what? Did you fuck? Are you fucking me over here? Like multiple times, dude, like does like a like a fist, like like we we've seen them fight before. But it's like funny just to see his like rate and like impotent rage, because you're like, well,
01:18:37
Speaker
Jay, I mean, i don't know. I feel like Jay would easily win in the fall. Even though Matt's got those arms, Jay just reads because he reads as, like, older and more mature. i'm like, don't know. I feel like Jay has a better head on his shoulders that Matt would be too wild and Jay could take him.
01:18:54
Speaker
Matt would tuck himself out, you know? you He would just be like... he Swinging wildly. would have great first 30 seconds, right? Then you'd be out in the 90th. I love that there's also this like... ah So this is the scene where they travel back to 2008,
Toronto as a Character: Urban Charm and Critiques
01:19:10
Speaker
right? and And I love that this is also the sequence where we get the runner running gag of ah Matt falling into the console of the car. just love when that happens. And also...
01:19:22
Speaker
when they travel back in time, it's that it's a Toronto ah streetcar that they almost hit every time. that Like, I take the streetcar all the time. I love the streetcar. It's one of my favorite parts of the city, you know? So it's just like, you know, getting one of those, it's like, yeah, this movie is littered with so many things that are so Toronto specific.
01:19:41
Speaker
um But it's also like a thing that's selling kind of the magic of the city almost. I'm interested in how this stuff is coming across to you. and And every time you like we talk about this, it seems like you're getting that as well.
01:19:53
Speaker
It makes me want to visit Toronto. Like it does feel the like there does is a magic to it. Like maybe we have street cars in some cities in America, but I wish there were more like I'm just a fan of like pretty much all most forms of public transit are pretty cool to me. And I wish most.
01:20:10
Speaker
hat I mean, the some cities have like, you know, like Chicago has like their subway. So like the CTA is like pretty solid. But it's like, man, we should be putting all our money into public different forms of public transit. Why do any of this other shit? Like, fuck these startups that have like those scooters everywhere, e-scooters everywhere.
01:20:28
Speaker
The worst. We have those here too, unfortunately, but in bike form. um yeah They have the bikes too. And now you can just, there used to be stations you had to bring them back to. Now you can just leave it somewhere when your thing is done in like in the app. So there's they're just like ditched, like on sidewalks and stuff. I'm like, this doesn't even seem good from a business, to like an insurance standpoint. This seems like extremely People are dying for sure, right? like Yeah. Like, like we we we all know. I saw a couple on one of those scooters, like for pair like two pairs of feet on one little, you know, scooter platform, no helmet. And I was like...
01:21:07
Speaker
i don't know There is no way there's no way they came from a restaurant mors like that took all of the money away from the guy so that he couldn't pay for two bikes. You know? like Like, there's no excuse.
01:21:20
Speaker
it was just, there were they trying to recreate some romantics? they Like, I'll hold on to you from behind and it'll be just like... no no ah you just being cheap no no at that point if that's what that was you know they both deserve to die you know they they they they made that bed they they can lay in it you know like a good riddance you you made my life safer you know but uh back to the movie we're in 2008 we're we're too we're here like this is this is the biggest magic trick of the the movie like we've talked about it now
01:21:52
Speaker
The back back to the future to Enos of like using repurposing
Authenticity in Film: Portraying 2008 with Humor
01:21:56
Speaker
old footage. And yes, you can tell which are shots from like, it's been so long since I've seen like the web series. I haven't watched those episodes multiple times, like the actual show. So I'm like kind of vaguely familiar with some of the sequences where they're getting things from. But you can also tell when there's like things where it's like, oh, they were using archive footage and now they just went to like a stand in Dressed as Matt from behind, like on the couch or something like it's like some kind of double to, you know, stand in for them while they're both in the same scene.
01:22:28
Speaker
ah And but it works so well, like it's not like it's it's taking me out of it. If anything, it's immersing me more. And just all the details of the things they see in 2008. was so well woven together because I'm like, are they just using footage of the city block from beforehand with the advertisements or are the billboards or are they just digitally putting up?
01:22:50
Speaker
Part of me was like, they pay to have like, especially by the end when you get to like the J advertisements in the alter time. I'm like, did they pay to have like a J billboard or something? no no no no no No, no, no, no, no. I can tell you right now. So that's Dundas Square, right? Like, so that, that right there is our, uh,
01:23:07
Speaker
I, I, what, what the New York one, what's that one called? Times Square. squarere Right. Yeah. That's our Times Square. That's what it looks like. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not nearly as busy. Like you can go there at any time of the day and it's pretty much empty. Right. ah Unless like it's rush hour and there was a bunch of foot traffic. Right. And there's a lot of cool shit around there. You know, like there's a giant mall beside there. There's like, you know, the subway stations, right. The movie, there's a movie theater right there. tons of bars, all that kind of stuff. Right. But like the fact that this location is treated like a Times Square is really heartwarming to me because, you know, with Canada, a lot of times in movies, we're made to look like America and it's like, you know, a tax haven. Right. But this time around, it's like, it's proudly here is our space. Right. And definitely when it comes to like the Dark Knight stuff, the Grand Theft Auto, like if you were to go down there back in 2008, that's probably what you would have seen. And and just like the all the people on the streets when they're like kind of showing the 2008 fashions. I'm like, OK, so they just had like a lot of like on the street stuff.
01:24:18
Speaker
I think that those must have been extras. I think that i think that they, because again, this movie is made for $2 million. dollars I think that that stuff they could have easily faked where they just, you know, ah a street block block, a few dozen extras, right? You give them ah a wardrobe and it's done, right? I think that the the more impressive things is that like stuff with like what you were saying about Jay McCarroll ah being in those modern ads, right? Like those BMO ads that he was in, right? And other things, those are all over the city already, right? All they did was just do it like a face change, you know? Oh, it's incredible. Yeah.
01:24:51
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like when when I was seeing those, I was like, oh, like these these are just like they were on the street. They video like existing advertisements and they just put them in there. and And like it's that kind of love where that's like speaking to me as somebody who is familiar with the area. ah But to somebody who's watching it from the outside, it could read as either or. It could read as completely fictitious. It could read as like, you know, a part of that. But the fact that I can, you know, see that, you know, and yeah appreciate that, that that's ah that's ah that's a high five. That's a hug almost, you know? Hell yeah. it It's just, this is some of the funniest stuff in the movie because like the the things that are showing that it's 2008, but because they're so oblivious initially that they're not picking it up. Like they like have the the magazine cover with Bill Cosby on it and they're like, oh my God, someone else is playing the Rivoli. Yeah.
01:25:42
Speaker
and that there's like a So that's a runner. That's a runner that then all the celebrities from 2008 are all like ah sex pests. Jared Fogle. I also.
01:25:53
Speaker
Yeah. And I feel like even down to like putting Jay and P Diddy for it, you know, like interview, you know, like that's still all part of that, that. continuum But none of that tips them to it.
01:26:04
Speaker
The thing is, that is when Matt goes to because like Jay's trying to still ditch Matt. So he's like, oh, let's go to a movie. And like you can see it it's like 2008 movies on the marquee Hellboy 2. And they go they go see a hangover.
01:26:19
Speaker
and And I love that. Well, first, you know, Matt, Jay gets up to leave. Like he's going, he's leaving forever. but like he's Matt just thinks he's going to the bathroom. So it's funny. Like there's like a emotional music playing. He's like, ah i'll he's just saying like, goodbye, Matt. Like, and Matt's like, fine. What are you doing? Go. but but but But just like, it's so funny that the thing that tips Matt off to 2008 is that during the hangover, everyone's laughing at the use And I'm going to bleep.
01:26:50
Speaker
I mean, I'm quoting the movie. That was not the word they used, Doug. That was not the word they used. oh no The F slur. Sorry, I'm using the wrong slur. You're bleeping that one too, hopefully. but Yeah, and I'm going to bleep. yeah
01:27:09
Speaker
I was just going to say him. No. George Carlin. He's not. You can't say him. But I can. so you um But ah yeah, that that joke, right, was the only joke that got a laugh in my theater.
01:27:25
Speaker
And, you know, i definitely on some level feel as though they were more so laughing the hangover. Just because some the hangover and just someone, say like the juvenileness of like,
The Evolution of Internet Culture and Comedy
01:27:38
Speaker
oh. he said they they were saying that word that's funny and not just like the humor of like oh yes this is very 2008 humor that like who would not be going over well now and like that even matt in his obliviousness because he says out-of-pocket stuff all the time is like like when he has when they're rehearsing for a show and he has the the fat pedophile character and he's talking about how like the lbgtq community will have to like Figure out how to accept it.
01:28:10
Speaker
But even he knows that that's not cool. He can just like have that now. the the The whole hangover thing, i think, works really well because it speaks to, like, so, like, obviously times change, you know, all that stuff. But then it also speaks to, like, the maturing of everybody involved. Right. And, like, we've already talked about, like, in the dirties, there's certainly some moments in that movie that doesn't have, like, perfectly aged moments. Yeah. And I would say the same thing about Nirvana, the band, the show.
01:28:42
Speaker
Right. And I do feel as though this is like a moment where they're understanding that like some things just don't fly anymore. Right. Because I feel like if you saw some clips out of context in that you weren't seeing the full show, you could think that that is it kind of has edgelordy or edgelord adjacent humor terms of recording that audience. They were courting that audience, I would say.
01:29:06
Speaker
Like that that was something that they were not, like they were obviously commenting upon it, but they also were not eschewing the people who were a part of those crowds. Well, and there was more of a, ah you know, circle overlap between internet culture and edgelord stuff because that was that was like just early internet, you know, that that those there was crossover before the edgelord stuff fully went. Like it wasn't, it it maybe just just because I was younger and naive about it, but it like didn't really feel super political. It was just people wanting to, you know, like push people's buttons and like say shit. Yeah.
01:29:42
Speaker
Like, Edgelord shit used to be, like, ah exactly that. And then what ended up happening was either people were realized how dumb that was and they grew up and they stopped behaving that way. Or the other group of people were just like, well, I'm just going to be, like, super racist then. or Let me keep, you oh, I can't keep saying the thing?
01:30:00
Speaker
that's how many Netflix. It's that Eric Andre thing. I'm going to say it
01:30:09
Speaker
They won't let me say this. Like, you I'm getting paid millions by Netflix for this special, but I can't say it. Like, Chris Rock, I think you could say anything. Yeah. Ricky Gervais, like, you're not oppressed. Come on. Like, get out of here.
01:30:23
Speaker
Like, it's it's a situation that ah repeats itself time and time again. And then also, like, at the same time, I feel like Matt's character is often, like, pulling moves that are in that vein, right? Like, he is totally within that, like, narcissistic, like...
01:30:38
Speaker
Oh, I'll say whatever I need to to get out of this thing. Right. And it works really well within the show, within this movie, when we're getting to this, like, you know, everything with past selves and stuff.
Humor in Conflict and Absurd Plans
01:30:51
Speaker
Yeah. It's really Matt who ruins everything, right? He's the one who takes things way too personally. He's the one who doesn't just take this as a bump of the road. Like if if he just accepted Jay's confession at that moment and they moved on, that would have been a beautiful moment. And who knows? Maybe they would have gotten their shit together and played the Rivoli.
01:31:11
Speaker
Yeah, but he has the childish reaction of like, yeah, kind of just like, oh, well, you don't want to play. I'm going to break everyone's toys. you know But it ends the fact that it ends up backfiring on him.
01:31:22
Speaker
And I love that it's just the simplicity of era on the erase board, just writing, ah don't play the Rivoli. There's great erase board humor because like that's a recurring bit of their theres yeah their scheming in the show. But like when they find out. there When they pull the they pull the whiteboard down in the RV. There's like a mini. it's incredible that's it's so crazy to me your audience not does none of this is like in anything not out of your none nothing i they just like the hangover they're just like ed helms they're just todd phillips fans okay yeah they're like that should have won the oscar you know like uh zach alpinakis best supporting actor
01:32:07
Speaker
I don't know why you're nominating Bradley Cooper for all this gay stuff he's doing. This maestro, more like. don't know. I didn't have many anywhere for that Gaystro. Gaystro.
01:32:22
Speaker
Which is funny, like the first thing to put Bradley Cooper on my radar was him. Was he on the receiving or get he had anal sex with Michael Ian Black and Red Hot American Summer? Like that's my like yeah them getting married and butt fucking in a it is my introduction to Bradley Cooper.
01:32:41
Speaker
I'm just going to say it. I'm a big fan of Bradley Cooper. i don't think he's like, he's done bad movies. He's done bad performances, but he seems like he's got his head on the right shoulders. You know, like he's he's moving through life in a way that he should, you know? And anytime he pops up in just like a little cameo, I'm like, oh, this is really cool that you did this. Sometimes some people like yeah appear in a way where I'm like, I don't need to be seeing you everywhere, but I'm like actually charmed when he'll like pop up in like the Dungeons and Dragons movie. He's like, you know, like...
01:33:10
Speaker
Like a dwarf. He would be great in the Nirvana, the band, the show series. He would be great in this universe. He like, that's the kind of chameleon that he is where he could fit within all of these kinds of things. Right.
01:33:22
Speaker
um And and to to get back to the movie, ah the, ah you know, the whole ah writing on the whiteboard, do not play the Rivoli, as you pointed out. Right. Like, I love that. That's all it takes. Right. Like, who's who's reading that and going like, yeah, that's what we're going to do. Right. Right. And then that that causing the irreparable riff of like, we're over, we're finished. Like, like, how do you go from don't play to the it's like, they just get over the they have a fight over who wrote that maybe, you know, like, if you want to think logically about it, but it's funnier if you don't like logic. it out It's just like the simplicity of like, just writing don't play the Rivoli like is what altered the timeline.
01:34:00
Speaker
It's just funny. It's just a funny thing. And and ah it's the fact that it's not Jay who wants to do this, but it's Matt who wants to see, right? That now puts the ball in his court, right? That makes him the guy who was...
01:34:16
Speaker
like bad and let's also be real for a second right like as we've established many times throughout this podcast jay has been held down by matt this entire time we everyone who knows this show who's watched it they know this right so for this to happen this is obviously the best case scenario for jay and is the good outcome So everything that we're watching is this, you know, nightmare scenario for Matt. But it's also like the thing that we all know, you know, would happen.
01:34:45
Speaker
Right. Because it's like, who is the one propping all this up? Like, yes, Matt Johnson, the actual guy is an excellent like riffer and in you know filmmaking talent. But like the like the Matt of the show is like it's like Jay's doing the heavy lifting with the music. Like he's the one who's like pulling all this out of his ass.
01:35:06
Speaker
Matt isn't playing an instrument. He's not even singing. All their songs involves Matt talking. He does. He does rap a little bit. He raps an alphabet. that I'm just baffled. Like, you're right. They didn't like the alphabet rap. None of it that was amazing, man. Like, like, I can't I couldn't believe that I was the only one laughing at that. Another another detail I should give you. Right.
01:35:30
Speaker
a row of like five, like either teenagers or like early twenties young guys, right? You would think that that would be like the target audience, right?
01:35:42
Speaker
Brickets, crickets the entire time. Because that brushes up against the, edge like you could tell like Matt as a character and then also of them yeah as, you know, people have had matured, but it is brushing up against the edge lordy stuff. Like he's
Edgy Humor: Boundaries and Reception
01:35:54
Speaker
not saying technically any, you know, like he's not like saying a slur or anything, but it's like, then you have a big black guy. you like do a g
01:36:06
Speaker
i i it's it's when uh because because we've talked about this before when like matt's playing ignorant right uh this idea that like you know he's leaning into these more problematic things it's when he has a moment like that where it's like oh you could see a dumb person saying this at this moment and it's like And a dumb person not even registering to hit him that it's problematic, that it's like, maybe don't say it. Like, like jay is Jay is always the one who, like, he he'll be little dopey or absent-minded sometimes, but, like, he's the one that will recognize of, like, maybe we would you're we're going too far. like Like with Matt's pedophile character or, like, when they're doing the everyone wants a bosom for a pillow song about how there's no more gainness than that.
01:36:50
Speaker
Everyone needs to watch this. Everyone. This is a great show. Great movie. All of it. Amen, brother. up
01:37:02
Speaker
um Yeah. so I guess what what's next? Oh, so I guess it's so they is they just go right to the future then, right? like they they go They go back because because they had to get the what's the drink called it again? Orbits. Yeah. Orbits. They go back to the.
01:37:17
Speaker
Yeah. They to steal it from their younger self because that's like the lightning in a bottle. It fuels the the time machine. But then they get into another accident. Like there's there's a train car right there as they come back to 2025.
01:37:33
Speaker
And again, Matt falls. It's his ass. He keeps repeating. i hit my ass. Yeah. even though he clearly hit his neck. Right. he's like Almost like he's like doing it just for Jay's like amusement. Like that their friend, like he did injure himself, but he's trying to make a bit out of it for his friend or that he thinks that he can get a laugh out of it. But then like, yeah, Jay's already gone. Jay's gone.
01:37:59
Speaker
Yeah. And it's because of Matt, because Matt of what Matt said before, you know, like he was he drew the line and and Jay ah like will reveal later that he heard the song on the radio. Right. And that's why he left.
01:38:13
Speaker
But I love how like this song is everywhere. I love how i love Anthony Fantano arrives. He's talking about how this is the only song that's on the new album. Well, because in and the album, artbe because Jay did put out an album recently, I believe, e because he does, besides scores, he just does music. Maybe I'm um'm wrong, but I thought there was a real album that had that artwork, and maybe they're just using that as like, yeah, that's what this superstar Jay's like new hit single is on.
01:38:48
Speaker
I'm going to the pop-up tomorrow, and I do think that they are selling that there, so I will report back. I will tell you what what is on that ah vinyl because they are selling that.
01:38:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's like a real thing. Okay. Yeah, I was just looking up his stuff on Spotify. So, yeah, he ah Matt's disoriented.
01:39:13
Speaker
He doesn't know where where Jay is, goes back to the house. And i love these guys. I recognize at least, like, one of them is, like, part of the ensemble of like, coders from from BlackBerry. But there's like there's there's, like, three new sidekicks in place of Jay. Like, he thinks Jay is just upstairs and that...
01:39:32
Speaker
these three new guys are maybe like the Jay just hired them to teach him a lesson about how ridiculous this plan is because immediately they're going to like, okay, here's how we get tickets to this, this, this venue. We're going to like one of the guys has tickets and we're all going to be Chinese door to door sales. Like coming up with their backstory about how Chinese they are. It's like my dad's Chinese. My mom's Chinese. I'm both. My parents are Chinese. White guys. Like both my parents are Chinese.
01:40:02
Speaker
So you're like, oh, these guys are like dumber than Matt. Well, no, no, they're not dumber than Matt because they succeed. Right. Like the the ultimate irony is that like no matter what timeline. Right. Matt is the worst. Like Matt is the worst at both being the plan guy and being the fucking music guy. um And also what I love about these guys is. Like, I'm sure that they're like known people. I don't know who they are beyond that. But what I will say is that one of the guys is wearing a Vinegar Syndrome t-shirt and Vinegar Syndrome, a great, ah you know, purveyor of, ah you know, ah Grindhouse films. You know, they put out lots of Blu-rays and stuff. Oh, okay. Yeah. They also have like a physical video store. It's across the street from the Revue Cinema, which is my favorite theater in the whole city. Right. So when I saw Vinegar Syndrome, I was like, oh, again, speaking to my heart, you know, like, of course, they're referencing Vinegar Syndrome of all of the distributors.
01:40:58
Speaker
That's yeah's so cool. I love just like every, even the references that like go over my head, just the fact that like those are put in there. And you can tell that it's like stuff that like Matt is genuinely passionate about. Like the lot that's that's always great. But the reveal of like what they're getting the tickets for, ah because like, oh, yeah and this is when he finds out about Jason. Like he leaves the... The other sidekicks and then he goes back to, you know, the Canadian Times Square. And hold on, hold on quickly before we move on from this.
01:41:29
Speaker
They all have tattoos. They all matching Jamie. I couldn't remember if that was after he sees the billboard because he like then because he finds out that Jay's a star and then he realizes that like, oh, they're all fans and in a cover band.
01:41:41
Speaker
I think maybe. But no, no, it's when he's still at the house, right? Because he's at the drum set and then he pulls up his arm and he sees it. And then all of them reveal it too. And then when they have that moment is when he leaves. Hey, I get it.
01:41:54
Speaker
It's all good. I've been ruminating over this for an extra 24 hours. So I have that on you. Yeah. But ah like we said before, like just chef's kiss to the editing on these billboards.
01:42:05
Speaker
They're so funny. just and And it works because like we said, Jay's a good looking guy. So it's like you we could kind of buy into the universe where it's like, yeah, he's like modeling these jeans or whatever. Like whatever. Yeah. I i like a perfume mad where he's covered in tattoos. Yeah. like
01:42:26
Speaker
So at at that concert, because it's not the ah the band that does that he, what's what's the name of the band that does the that's that song? Oh, I forget that. The Brave Shores, I think, right? So it's him and his sister.
01:42:42
Speaker
It's him and his sister that are in that band, ok which is cool, you know? um ah And also, I just wanted to point out that they're playing at Budweiser Stage, not the Rivoli. Budweiser Stage is like a, I think it's called like rb RBC Amphitheater now. um But it's ah essentially, it's like an an outdoor, just, you know, classic music venue. It's an actual music venue, not a bar that sometimes books musicians. Yeah. I wouldn't say that like Budweiser stage is like where somebody goes to make it. That's where like Lady Gaga plays, you know, like that's where like, well, cause they're, they're positioning him as like a super mega star. I mean, he's living in Drake's house. So this guy is like on top of the world.
01:43:22
Speaker
maybe Maybe I should amend that and say Scotiabank Arena is probably more ah Lady Gaga, you know, but at the same time, like huge artists play at the Budweiser stage. I wonder whose show they're stealing those crowd shots from. i i was i was i was pondering that, but I mean, it could literally be. They're flicking towels.
01:43:42
Speaker
Yeah. but I want know what those towels were. Yeah. I'm like, it towel is that someone's ah like symbol? that Like, I don't know. Maybe that's like a ah farewell tour and they're just saying they're throwing in the towel. You know, who knows?
01:43:57
Speaker
Yeah, that could work. And thematically, that does kind of match what what these characters are going through. But yeah, it's it's great. Like we said, like this is a nightmare for Matt to see.
01:44:09
Speaker
And it's not just like because there's no point ever where he's like, oh, I'm happy that my friend made it. It's more just like, oh, he did this without me. Like like that. He's yeah like left out and he feels like kind of entitled to like that. that I should also be a part of this. Yeah.
01:44:25
Speaker
Yeah, because Matt's selfish. He's a he's kind of a shitty dude, right? Yeah. So, and like, and and we, I mean, even before we get the flashback of it all from Jay's perspective, we kind of know that he's playing dumb when he's like, oh, it's been 17 years. Like, it's been so long. Like, it, but but Matt's, of course, falling for it. But, like, it, like, that that's all great. Especially the flashback version of that scene where, Jay's just laying into him. He's like, this is my fat friend.
01:44:58
Speaker
Hilarious. Again, i'm I'm like cackling, cackling. Nobody else is cackling. Like it is insane to me. i think you were virginia sitting in an audience of corpses. Like I think they might be dead. Maybe. Like you and have to be dead not to find this funny.
01:45:14
Speaker
I wanted to bring it back to It's a Wonderful Life, right? Because this, again, feels like, you know, like George Bailey, like going through ah Pottersville, you know, being like, oh Mary, why don't you remember me, Mary? You know, like that's what this is right now. and But like the selfish version of it, because it's like, yeah it is better for other people that they didn't have him. It's just bad for him.
01:45:37
Speaker
Like, yeah. So now it's a Twilight Zone episode. So now it's like, you know, just like a very dark, like science fiction morality tale. And that also leans into what ends up happening with Jay, right? Because I love that we then have this like moment where like all that stuff is played straight, but then we get it from Jay's perspective. And then we get this amazing...
01:45:59
Speaker
interview breakdown where like he yeah he has an interview with ro roz and mocha who are just like radio djs here in toronto right like yeah you know you turn on morning radio that's them right and like the fact that he like breaks down in their studio the way that he does is so funny to me i think that that Because because it's not exactlyly it's not like full on it's not overplayed in terms of like These are good performances for this beat. like This is a comedy movie, but like if we can't emphasize it, like the filmmaking and performances are actually legit really good because Jay's not overplaying and getting like weepy or something. It's just kind of like...
01:46:38
Speaker
Almost like you could see him short circuiting behind the eyes of like kind of trying to like the question of like, who who who's the person you want to share the success with? You know, like, who do you call? you have a butt you have a friend, a best friend. And it's just the idea of like, oh, in this ah Twilight Zone reality where he's successful, he's just like isolated himself. Like he just has like yes men around him. He doesn't actually have like people he hangs with or care about him. Right.
01:47:06
Speaker
Although, you I mean, you could say Matt's a shitty friend, but he is a friend, like that he's there. Yeah. You know, like I haven't said this yet, but this is kind of like what I've been working towards this whole thing. Like Matt Johnson, he's an incredible filmmaker. Right. But I think that this film proves that Jay McCarroll is the better actor.
01:47:24
Speaker
I think that Jay McCarroll is able to play the dramaticism of these scenes like better than Matt ever could. I think that Jay McCarroll is playing the the comedic elements like with a twinkle in his eye. And like when it with the show, it was very Matt heavy. And with this movie, it feels like a J one off. And Because the arc is his and it is really highlighting it because like you said, the show is Matt heavy, but whenever Jay would have a bit, it would almost stand out more because you're not expecting it or expecting a chime in from him or something. Exactly. Like when they're doing the genderless burger experience, like the jingle, and he's like, if you're a guy a girl or maybe you're something, The look he makes with his eyes is like, it's like, it's like mixed with bedroom eyes and like, I don't know how to describe like the look he's making. He's like, he's like, and because Jay is like, trying to be sweet, but he's like saying something like kind of nasty and he knows it, you know, he looks like a naughty boy.
01:48:34
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. He looks like he's having fun with it. You know, he's got the same kind of brain disease that Matt does. Right. He just he just he he reads is more mature. So you forget that he is like that. Also, you're like, this is why they're friends.
01:48:50
Speaker
e And like there is a universe where like Jay could, you know, be this version of himself, what have you. Right. But it does speak to the fact that he is, you know, friendless and that everybody who's on his team apparently hates him and doesn't want to play Nintendo 64 with him. Yeah. I love that that's the thing that he wants to do. Out of all the things that he misses doing with Matt, he misses playing in Nintendo 64. We never ever see them play anything remotely recent. It's only the Only Nintendo.
01:49:23
Speaker
like i It's like, I don't think this guy's touched an Xbox or anything else. They don't play first-person shooters. I mean, unless it's like Goldeneye, you know, it's like. like Yeah, fair. Yeah. I mean, you have if you have a library of everything you need on N64. Honestly, like pretty much all the genres are maybe RPGs have a little less representation, but. they You got like Super Mario RPGs. No, oh no there's there's there's great ones. I'm just being like in terms of like like PlayStation.
01:49:51
Speaker
Sure. one even one or two like they would would be outclassing them just in just like jrpgs alone final fantasy sevens say no more you know right exactly but now that's all on nintendo anyway so now it all comes around hey shit i've got an emulator that has all of those games that we've listed on there so like who's really winning it in the end you know it But ah we didn't mention the setup for this game, which is maybe wouldn't even say it's the funniest gag in the movie. But the thing that I laughed the loudest at in a way where I think almost my ah my audience was laughing, but they were like almost like hand over mouth. I just let it like fill the room. I was like, oh, my God, yeah I got this.
01:50:36
Speaker
I'll take care of it for all of us here. i think I think I speak for all of us here when I say this is fun. Because, like, earlier after the Skydon't Plan goes wrong, Matt's kind of trying to play with Jade. He has, like, a little Nerf gun. He's, like, shooting, shooting at him. And then there's just, like, a gold, like, looks like a desert eagle just hanging up and in the trailer.
01:50:59
Speaker
He picks it up and he's, like, playing with the tip. Yeah. Yeah. He just fucking shoots the guy in the head thinking it's a gun. It's incredible.
01:51:10
Speaker
It's I. Yeah. Like I said, I felt my laughter filled up the whole theater. I was I knew it's like as soon as you see him see that gun and then you remember the beginning. It's like, yeah, obviously there's one way this is going to go. But just for it to be.
01:51:26
Speaker
because there's barely any buildup to it. He just like finds it, takes it, and then shoots him the head. And then it's just like so messy. to It's like it's a it fucking explodes his head, his brain out of the back of his skull.
01:51:42
Speaker
And even if it's a 4K camcorder, I don't care. This looks like fucking live leak footage, you know, like the the fact that it's on this format, the way that it's shot this way, like it looks a bit more impactful than if it were to have been a ah studio film.
01:51:58
Speaker
Right. And it almost looks more realistic than the gun violence and the dirties at the end. Well, sure. Sure. For sure. And we're not seeing like, like, yo, blood exploding everywhere. And we also talked about in that review of like how it almost feels like there is an intentional heightening of like, because keeps kind of blurring of like, what is subjective? Like how much of this is in Matt's head of like his version of like how he's enacting this. It almost feels like a little like weight, less weighty and video gamey that like, you know, like he's detached from the violence, but here they, they want, they let it land of like, no, this is bloody messy. Yeah. This is fucking Jay committed.
01:52:38
Speaker
and And then I love that this is what brings Jay back to Matt. And we just have to call it out the moment when like Matt is at his lowest and he's stuck at that house. Right. And he opens the door.
01:52:51
Speaker
And there's like the cherry blossoms or something behind Jay. The wind blows. and and It blows. his and and they're doing like ah already doing back to the future of like music cues that they've been doing at the whole movie. But like we get more of that a twinkle like from from the score there. It's it's incredible. And then this is like where the the alphabet rap riffing came the that I was alluding to. her ah I forgot how they even get to that, tell you like because they're trying to figure out how to like repower the Rivoli because they don't have their fuel source. But like I forgot how they get to the alphabet, rep but that's just like that's how their riffs normally go. yeah like They're just immediately kind of falling back into a rhythm, even though it's like, oh, this has altered the dynamics different.
01:53:35
Speaker
But hey, there's an instrument there. Jay fucking slides right back into it. And ah it's it's great. Yeah. But then also you clearly know that it's like this hasn't changed Jay's perspective of he likes the life that he's been presented with. Like he made he just made a really big error that he would like to take back. But he's not looking to go back and undo like go back to the status quo that we were at the beginning. Like he doesn't want that.
01:54:06
Speaker
well Well, this also, like, changes Jay in a dramatic way, right? Because, like, let's just be real. Jay killed somebody, right? Jay murdered a man, right? And all he wants to do is go back two days and undo that so that he can live his fantasies. He spilled wine on his pants. I don't know. He's like... Yes, so exactly. Imagine, imagine. I could go back to, because like, it almost speaks to the selfishness of like, he's just saying that, but like, it's like the, that it, the murder is as trivial as like, uh, you're stained pants. It's like, this is really inconvenient for me. Can I hit the undo button? You know, like exactly it's, it's, it's great stuff. And then the flashback version of it where was like, like, like, yeah, I spilled wine on my pants.
01:54:52
Speaker
Maybe I killed somebody. Yeah. Yeah. And and and like the the reason it's important to bring this up at this point, too, is like, as we've established, Matt is clearly the worst of the two.
01:55:05
Speaker
Right. But now Jay is in this position where he like just he's been alone for what a day and he's killed a man. Yeah. And now who's really the villain, right? And because we've already we've already seen that he sabotaged the the time machine, like the last of the orbits. He just broke it. Like like exactly he he took away Matt's ability to like undo this because he liked that life. And then that happens right before he picks everything up for himself. Exactly. So it's like we we've already established how Matt is terrible. And in this movie, we're almost getting the explanation for why Jay is terrible. Yeah.
01:55:42
Speaker
And then when we have this whole... we've got to do the time machine thing again. We got to get the orbits. They have to do the climax. They have to do the climax from back to the future.
01:55:53
Speaker
and I, this is the best stuff in the movie, in my opinion. It's, it's great. I mean, you know better than the actual finale back to the a movie that i disagree. No, I, no, I, I, I'm just being hyperbolic because back to the future is legit. I don't, I was focusing on this movie. Like that was a staple. ah And like, I feel like it does. I would say just,
01:56:16
Speaker
Which I like, it's kind of a perfect movie, like from a like script standpoint, like it's like tight as a drum. Like, like. I'll put it to you this way. Right. So like in ah Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, when they realize that the power isn't connected. Right. Like there's like exposition. There's, you know, there's a much ado about it. Right. In Back to the Future, when Christopher Lloyd recognizes that, all he does is scream. Right.
01:56:41
Speaker
And as an audience who knows what's going on, right? He screams and there's literature there's a music cue. It's it's like so such economic storytelling. Like it's like there's no – everything comes back. There's no fat on the bone. And then it's just – it's fucking funny. it's good yeah and christopher lloyd's like one of the best actors who's ever lived and christopher lloyd and then you have fucking who's playing is who plays the dad in it who left after in the second christopher glover he's yeah like he's on rewatch like the thousandth rewatch like i kind of hone in on like is he my favorite performance in the movie like because he's like he's very really good
01:57:18
Speaker
v yeah Just don't watch any of the movies he's directed so then you can keep that opinion. um so i've So does his stuff, is it like actually available or does he just screen it? Like he has screenings and like he submits it to like like little festival? like Because ah to me it almost sounds like like the movies he makes are almost like on a George Lucas level. Like I'm just doing this for me. Like George Lucas now. Well, they exist. Yeah. They exist. where That's the big the big difference to George Lucas, I guess.
01:57:45
Speaker
um But the one thing I will say about those is I'm sure you could find them. ah But specifically his first two movies, the reason that they were released that way was because he hired like mentally challenged people ah to play large parts. And like it's it's one of those situations where like it's exploitative. Right. So like a lot of these roadshows, what he was doing was that he was trying to like inspire debates.
01:58:11
Speaker
Like he was trying to like get into fights with people by showing these movies. So like they don't really exist as like proper films and more so that like for provocations, you know, again, this is edgelord shit. This was like in the mid 2000s, you know.
01:58:26
Speaker
And we brought it up because of Chris McGlover and his connection to Back to the Future. Don't watch those movies, to be clear. Don't watch those movies. I mean, Chris McGlover, as a performer, whenever he pops up and stuff, he still has the juice. Like, i he was fucking one of the best parts of ah the American God show where he plays, like, yeah he's like the leader of of the of the new gods. mystery he's but He's basically like the god of capitalism or globalism. Yeah. Uh, and there's like, just like a little rant he goes on that I always think about where he's like talking about how like, uh, different kinds of salsa, like chunky, spicy, given all these different flavors is like, like, oh, you have the choice, but it's still salsa. Like, like we're giving you one product. you We're giving you the illusion of choice. Like it is not really, you're still buying the product from us. I always liked a k Crispin Glover ah in River's Edge.
01:59:17
Speaker
ah There's a specific affectation he puts to his voice in that film. And ah it's it's both, ah in a way, amateurish, right? When you're hearing him speak, like you're just like, this guy isn't on the level. But then as the film unravels, you're like, oh, this is entirely intentional. And the way that he's performing this is exactly perfect for this character. And Crispin Glover is able to do that because he has no ego. Right. Right. And that's something that we can also bring back to Nirvana, the man that showed the movie, is that a lot of the stuff is making fun of who Matt and Jay are already. And it's doing so in a way where it doesn't feel like they're taking themselves too seriously. All of this is like dumbing themselves down to like the worst episodes.
01:59:59
Speaker
primal elements of themselves. You know, pop culture obsession, you know, selfishness, no real understanding. It's kind of like they're pantsing themselves, but in public for like our amusement and the passerbys.
02:00:12
Speaker
What do you think when they're doing the whole like cable from the top? Like, because it it does, the the line seems taut, like it's ah holding up to something. Do you think there's just someone like above, like couple floors above, like holding, ah it's tied to something. So we got to talk about the fact that like,
02:00:30
Speaker
Telefilm definitely had a huge hand in this film, right? Which is like the the fund financing arm of the government of Canada, right? Like they got funding from this film. That sounds cool. of Government that funds that. I don't know about that. Right.
02:00:44
Speaker
And like we do that here, but it's also like usually the case with these kinds of productions is they're very sane, right? Like they're not usually like this, right? And this is an abnormality for sure. And that's awesome in my books. This is like maybe we'll actually have an art house scene. You know, who knows? Spingers crossed.
02:01:03
Speaker
um And I think that when scenes like this are happening at the CN Tower, it has to be like, you know, somebody on a roof or somebody on a forklift. I think this is also like ah going back to like what we're talking about, like the police officers and the firefighters. You wouldn't be able to do that in a regular Canadian movie. I think this is where a lot of like the, you know, government of Canada stuff's coming up. I this is where they're able to kind of flex a little bit of like ah institutional power.
02:01:27
Speaker
Right. Like I could believe that the cop in the scene that like before the actual like police car chase starts, like the when like he keeps eyeing like Jay, that I could believe that he's a real cop. But I think that they're like have the cooperation of like maybe some like local law enforcement to that. That's what it has to be.
02:01:47
Speaker
That's what it has to be for sure. Because even the police cars are the same. it's It's crazy. It's crazy what they're able to get away with in this movie. Yeah, because there is a full-on car show. Because it is the climax of Back to the Future.
02:02:00
Speaker
But, you know, Matt jokingly says, like, and I love all his asides straight, because, like, you can do the asides to the camera because the cameramen are, like, technically, like, present in the in the world. Like, we already had the part earlier when they realized they're doing Back to the Future. He's like, oh, you're seeing this in a theater. Like, you're lucky because this is going only night this play. Like, he's like, this going to be a copyright nightmare. Yeah.
02:02:23
Speaker
Again, another situation where I'm just like rolling in the seats and I'm like amazed that my audience is not doing He's doing like Bugs Bunny shit. Like that's how Bugs Bunny talks to the camera. You're not, and you fucking credins aren't like enjoying this.
02:02:39
Speaker
You're not going to accept ain't I a stinker? Come on. Like yeah you you accept those, you know? um and And also one of my favorite parts of this, like By the way, I just have to say that like this whole climax is incredible. I feel the tension of it. I am nervous when all this stuff is happening. It feels like there's stakes, like which is like crazy because it's so absurd.
02:03:01
Speaker
Because initially, i wasn't even... I didn't think they were going to actually like apply some internal logic to, they're like, okay, so lightning in a bottle was Orbit's model. So we need real lightning, like and Back to the Future. We know when a lightning is going to strike the the tower, but they're drawing the line, you know, the cable from the top and then they just plug it into like a power pole. I thought it was going to be like, like, and the thing lights up. I was like, how is that getting to the the van? But like, then they show that an and I was like, okay, well at least there's like some kind of,
02:03:33
Speaker
like internal logic gobbledygook to make make that make sense. And I just love that one when they finally, okay, so again, we get that great moment where like they connect power to the CN Tower and they have the line through the wheelbarrow, right? And you're getting that wonderful moment of them walking through Toronto, just like with that visual. Like, ah again, this is just like speaking to my heart right now, like in all of these little ways, like this is just what it's like. You know, and and and then you get that moment where they plug it into the wall and like there's a guy standing next to them and they're just like, hey, can you watch this? Because they can't close it because of the wire. So they're like, yeah, can can you watch this? And he he asked how long.
02:04:16
Speaker
And I think they say like 30 minutes or something. 30 minutes. And he like says, okay, he says, okay. How fucking nice are you people? You'll do that for a stranger for 30 minutes? That's, that's what it's like.
02:04:27
Speaker
That's what it's like here. And then it's one of those situations where like that happens. And I just like, i want to like fist bump, you know, cause I'm like, this is what it's like here, you know? and and it made me proud, you know? Like I'm not usually like a Canada, you know, high you know, like I, I've never seen you so nationalistic.
02:04:47
Speaker
You're like, this this is it. You're draped in the Canadian flag. You're not you're not even wearing clothes right now. You should have the flag on. I'm speaking to a Canada goose and I'm whispering to them, would you fuck me? You know, like there's a, there's a Justin Trudeau like poster behind you in the black one, the blackface ones.
02:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Hey, you know, uh, nationalism, you know, ah congratulations by the way. I heard that him and Katy Perry are pregnant, you know, ah oh miles congratulations to that, uh, well-adjusted child,
02:05:21
Speaker
but I can tell you one thing that child's going to be normal. Exactly. and And I imagine they will have a normal name. should name him fireworks. Oh.
02:05:32
Speaker
Or they should name him the fireworks slap in Eddington. Like, I'm just going if I had kids, I won't. But if I did, I just name after scenes that I like. m Just like, uh, when is Paltrow getting off the bus in Royal Tenenbaugh? Yeah. That's the first Oh, hey, it's you, Lobby beach Shooting Spree from The Matrix, parentheses 1999. That one Hong Sang-so film that's almost entirely out of focus.
02:06:05
Speaker
the ah The thing I love about this climax too is get where we we get another instance of Matt climbing on top of the CN Tower and jumping off of it. I love that we get this like sequence from inside of the streetcar that goes outside of the streetcar. And it like you have Matt who's on top of the the streetcar getting off onto the awning, jumping down. Like all of that's beautiful. Like, like this is what I want. and And then while helicopters are circling and and he's like, ah again, like $2 million. dollars I don't know. Like, like they're they're making use of it somehow. ah Because like... how we make Canadian movies. this is This is how it has to be. Like, what seeing this movie tells me is that, you know, American infrastructure is collapsing. It is, right? No offense. yeah
02:06:54
Speaker
No, no. America's over. It's, you know... And Europe. You know, like in yeah party favors, you know, um it's one of those situations where Canada's got to fill that void if if all the shit collapses in America. You know, that's the way I see it, you know. And I think that with this, Matt and Jay are showing that, like, you can do everything that could be done a Hollywood film at this level, at this budget level, and make it this convincing. And and it's such a rallying cry. And this exciting because like we're saying, like you're saying the effects or it looks better than like, ah like any Marvel. I feel like I can't remember the last time there was a big budget, like, like final set piece that had, i mean, yes, it helps that it is drawing on my like love and nostalgia for back to the future, but on its own, it's a very impressive technical that like I'm invested in the, these specific characters, like, and, and like them being able to pull it off. Also,
02:07:54
Speaker
Jay gets his own like eight-eye stinker when he said like, looks straight to camera. He's like, you know what I'm going to do, right? Like it changing the date. Yep. And it all goes before we get to that, right? Like one thing, ah because go go back to what you were just saying about the Back to the Future references.
02:08:09
Speaker
So what I like about this show, this movie, I should say, is that different from the show, ah it doesn't feel as though the back references to Back to the Future are so integral to the point where like the show, the movie would be different. If it wasn't, you know, based around Back to the Future, like going back to that Force Awakens thing, right? Like Star Wars, Daredevil, right? Like those are integral to that episode and how it's structured and how it plays out. You can kind of loosely apply, you can loosely apply like any time travel thing to like the plot line that they're doing.
02:08:42
Speaker
Yeah. That, but then also like they don't really lean into the iconography in the same way. and And I really wanted to call out this moment, which is like the moment where they're talking about ah Back to the Future. And then we get the score for like a second. When we get that like little bit of the Back to the Future score that like I...
02:09:00
Speaker
Oh, I like I want to just like high five Matt Johnson. Like that's just yeah what you want. Because in the show that would you would have just heard the theme and that would have just kept going. The fact that they just contain that to that second. That's amazing. um And then also to go back to what we you were saying about Jay, he puts in the different date. Right.
02:09:19
Speaker
When, you know, he's driving in the car and we've been watching what Matt's been doing this entire time for this climax. When we have that shot of like Matt with pliers in the socket and his arm with Bryce's like a cord.
02:09:34
Speaker
Like this is probably one of the best scenes in the franchise, right? Like this is probably like what this show is all about now, right? Yeah. It it it like it takes this to a different level for me.
02:09:45
Speaker
This is what I'm talking about when I mean like the emotional investment because it's like, yes, it is. They're doing a Back to the Future riff and it's it's it's like goofy. But like I'm like – what a touching as sentiment of like – because he knows – he sees the – the news that the Jays wanted for murder. And then, you know, like we said, he gives the actual, the black and white flashback of like, Oh, I spilled wine on my pants or maybe I killed. so He's just putting it together now, but, uh, that he still is ready to sacrifice himself for like, I'm not, I didn't bri at this movie, but the image of the hat blowing in the wind, ah did something to me.
02:10:29
Speaker
Look, I didn't cry either, right? But this is one of those movies where like if someone told me they cried, I would be like, I get it. You know, like this this certainly was making me feel the things that it wanted me to feel in that moment. And then also to go back to something we were talking about earlier, which was how we obviously Matt is the weakest link here.
02:10:51
Speaker
And then obviously Jay is proving himself to be just as bad as Matt here. This is like Matt's ultimate redemption, right? Yeah. we've seen the show we've seen how deplorable Matt can be right we've seen him do all kinds of terrible things that would have justifiably had Jay running for the door but the fact that he does this thing right here it's the biggest jet get out of jail free card I've ever seen ever because life but and in in It feels genuine of like you kind of like, yes, there is normally the loyalty is one sided of Jay sticking by Matt. But then this is like the one time you would kind of see it reciprocated or in terms of like, no, he genuinely loves Jay. Like that he like he there's no he doesn't get anything out of this. Like there's there's not like an angle for Matt. Like he's doing this to help his friend. And even like the whole Rivoli thing, right? Like, because we've talked about, you know, how the Rivoli is not that great of venue, what have you.
02:11:49
Speaker
All of this is just an excuse for Matt to hang out with Jay, right? Ultimately, like Matt is just saying like, oh, we're going to play at the Rivoli, but really he just hang likes hanging out with Jay and this is the way that he gets him to hang out with him one day longer. right It's just structured hang time of like, okay, yeah, we'll go over the plant.
02:12:05
Speaker
And you kind of even from from the old 2008 footage, you know, when you see the younger Jay and he's like, yeah, after a shower, we can start the whatever, whatever, you know, kind of like an acknowledgement of like the particulars don't really matter. You know, like it's like it's just what we're going you know, we're doing a thing today. So let's, you know, we'll we'll start on that. Yeah.
02:12:27
Speaker
It speaks to the same energy that's in the dirties. It speaks to an energy that exists with any kind of small film, right? Like it's this idea that like there's a passion to tell a story and that they just want to get out there and do it, right? And it's something that's contagious. It's something that makes you want to go and create something. And if there's anybody who's going to be the face of like the new Canadian film movement, I would like that to be the energy that's brought forward with it.
02:12:53
Speaker
Just in terms of like independent filmmaking in general right now, I feel like that he's so exciting because like this is what we're the praise we're giving to this climax is like he's showing that you can have like the same thrills, the same kind of like the the platonic ideal of like, you know, populists like.
02:13:13
Speaker
ah entertaining entertain like I'm thinking of like like like prime Spielberg shit like I'm not saying not saying they're the same you know like so so kind of like storytellers but in terms of like how those would be emotionally resonant and like like super entertaining well executed set pieces and stuff he's doing that on a like yeah a smaller like budget level but he's like still delivering like that same experience kind of Without a doubt, right? And then there's also, like, it's this thing where ah it all only takes the know-how. It only takes the intellectual conceptualization of how these things work in order to execute these things, right? The, you know, the idea that you're doing this Back to the Future riff and you're pairing it with this kind of sardonic group.
02:14:01
Speaker
These are all very loose concepts, right? The only thing that's making this thing work the way that it does is the confidence in the material, is in the confidence in their ability to perform the material. It's in their confidence in each other that they will complement each other this way. And this is the thing, the secret sauce, the juice, if you will, that makes any kind of project work, right?
02:14:26
Speaker
So when we get to this climax and we have, you know, ah Jay run through the the time portal and you've got Matt's hat flying through the wind, right?
02:14:36
Speaker
This is this big, like... love conquers all moment this this like all of the facade breaks away all of the pastiche breaks away and it's an earnest expression and that's how you do irony is you have to delineate when there is genuine emotion and when there is like something that's just being a for a lark and right when we get this when we get that that's great We got to talk about the ending, right? Like that's the ending is beautiful. I mean, that's the part where it's like if someone told me they cry, I'd be like, I understand 100% where you're coming from. I mean, ah ah i mean, we do get a pretty good gag before it goes to like the the pure emotion and in earnestness of like we see that Jay went back to 2008 and he just right erased don't
02:15:26
Speaker
So the board just says, the plan, play the Rivoli. So that keeps them together. It's the cheesiest shit in the world, right? Like if if don't play the Rivoli was enough of a motivating factor for them to not play the Rivoli, the fact that the opposite would do the same, it's perfect, right?
02:15:45
Speaker
And then we get that moment where, ah you know, we get the replay of the Skydome skydive thing. And Jay just goes, let's leave a bit earlier.
02:15:55
Speaker
You know, this idea that like maybe today is the day that one of their plans works, right? They will jump into the Sky Dome and they they will have that moment. But we both know what happens on the show, right? They get into these situations and it won't work. right It won't work, but he's choosing to believe in them over what would just be his own success. Like, he could have easily just, yeah, gone back a couple of days and lived out like that. But ah the fact that he... should Like, they they both...
02:16:26
Speaker
do something selfless like i mean it's all it's like a bigger like walk for matt because of you know how selfish he is normally but but like it's still so touching to like the way it's played out like yeah like the music is doing a lot emotionally but like i think it's just like it's just really well executed like i said it's hitting all those these familiar beats but it's doing it especially in this end sequence and like such a earnest and for me heartfelt way like because I I fucking care about these guys this is a metatextual re-up right like separate from anything that we already know about future plans for Nirvana right ah this to an audience conveys that more is coming right
02:17:13
Speaker
And that's exciting. That's wonderful. You know, just from like a continuation of these characters, I'm excited. Right. Like this doesn't feel like an ending. This feels like a beginning.
02:17:26
Speaker
this could They could run for 10 more seasons. Like just keep doing it until they're dead. Like I yeah like we said, it gets funnier when they're older. So I'm imagining them as like senior citizens. Yeah. so but And Matt's still Jack, you know, like, let's do it. You know, the the the the thing is, is that they're just as vital as ever.
02:17:48
Speaker
They're so successful within their own individual fields. And yet they're making time for each other because they just know that what they have is special, separate from the filmmaking, separate from all that, just between Jay and Matt, you know, they have that.
02:18:02
Speaker
And it's wonderful to see. Because like we said, they have other stuff. He's making, i mean, it's probably finished filming the Bourdain movie that he's doing. ah So it, yeah, with with Mr. Holdover. So like, i I think that's going to be great. I mean, based on his track record and that's an exciting casting choice. ah Yeah, i I have, but like he could have easily just like kept riding that wave of like oh okay like there's some success from blackberry and i can like you know get bigger projects that will maybe be seen by more people from that then he's also choosing to be like no this is where i started and this matters to me like not just like because of the fans or you know that i it i owe it to anybody but it it genuinely is important to hit to him and to both of them you can tell
02:18:51
Speaker
For sure. And, and we, like, like as we've just said to like, uh, Matt has this massive success that's blowing up with this Bourdain movie. Like I imagine like, like that film is probably going to put them into an even new stratosphere. I could see it. Like, I don't know that biopics are like, is Gary, like it used to be, you make a good enough biopic, like you're walking away with some awards, but like you will usually still get nominated if you, past a certain threshold. It's like a big, high profile enough for the biopic.
02:19:22
Speaker
I'm thinking more about the figure themselves, you know, like Bourdain, right? Like Bourdain's a big figure for a lot of people, right? and Oh, absolutely. specifically Dominic Sessa, who is a fantastic actor, right? Like, like separate from Holdovers, he is just somebody who like is ah a rising star for sure, right? like He's made me want to check out the Now You See Me movies. I've never seen any of those, right knowing that he was in the three. okay, Doug.
02:19:47
Speaker
Doug, the first movie is really good. The first movie is legitimately good. It just looks like they have mutant powers. I'm like, that's not sleight of hand. You just have inception powers. so Yeah, you have to take it that way. You can't take it as magic. You have to take it as something different. Like they're yeah doing something funny. You're hacking reality right now.
02:20:06
Speaker
ah But but ah the the thing that makes me excited about that aspect is that no matter what Matt Johnson's doing with Bourdain or what comes next, I do believe that him and Jay are going to keep working together. Absolutely.
02:20:25
Speaker
I mean, he's done scores on the movies that they're not in together. Like, they're still together, you know? like Like, yes, they have careers separate from each other, but, like, they still are constantly collaborating. Like, he's, like, done the score for Blackberry, Operation Avalanche. ah I don't remember there being, like, a score score in The Dirties, but he's credited as doing that. So I guess there was a moment that there wasn't, like like like, kind of like there's, like, a montage at the end or something that has...
02:20:54
Speaker
like emotional music. I think, I think that's probably. got a couple bucks. Yeah. Just handed straight from Matt's pocket. I was like, here you go, $80, you know, make this, this song, you know. um But yeah, um I think that's the thing that we both see
Matt Johnson's Low-Budget Creativity: A New Era of Filmmaking
02:21:14
Speaker
here, right? Is that this is like, not just a celebration of what came before, but like,
02:21:21
Speaker
appreciation of what is still existing right there has been a big delay since the last go around but that feels more like it was contractually obligated from viceland where you know that just held them back and now it feels like nothing's holding them back anymore and after we had such a somber movie this is a wonderful feeling to have and And that this is like like we said like, for me, I had to travel a little farther, like actually go into the city. I'm in the suburbs to to see it. But Neon is putting this out and maybe going to be making an effort to make the show more available. Because like it's been noted that it's like disappeared from, there's Internet Archive had it. And there was also a fan site that had all the the episodes. The web series episodes are are still up, but like the actual show. Can I bleep? Can we bleep this for a second? you
02:22:18
Speaker
Like, sort didn't mean to, you know, like tell you to bleep or whatever. i just wanted you to know, you know. Yeah. But yeah like it's a no brainer. Right. Because as I've established, Matt Johnson is the biggest Canadian director right now.
02:22:32
Speaker
He is the number one biggest moneymaker. He is the number one. Dick Cronenberg. He is. It's the truth. Right. Like the shrouds more like the, you know, toilet paper that I went back. Oh, that's what I'm saying. Damn. And I like the shrouds too.
02:22:46
Speaker
So do I. It's my fucking top 10. But the, the ah you know, the the situation is that Matt Johnson is a better representation of what the next school of people want to do. And he has been that way for the past 15 years.
02:23:03
Speaker
So just imagine what another 15 years is going to do. I think that we're entering into a very exciting period in filmmaking where people will be pushed to do more low budget and interesting things. And we'll have Matt Johnson to thank for it.
02:23:16
Speaker
Like, I don't want to... Maybe more guerrilla filmmaking, just like this kind of like, you know, in the dirties, I kind of invoked Raimi in terms of just like the DIY of like, you can just do it, but it also helps when you could get, you know, funded by the Canadian government. That sounds pretty cool. Sure.
02:23:35
Speaker
but But like that that's a very limited resource. I know. It's not it's not the whole – they're not getting two million from them. No. and And like if you were to look at some other Canadian films that have been coming out recently, you know, like there's a movie that came out last year called The Pee-Pee-Poo-Poo-Man, right? And it was shot in Toronto. And like that's based a story as well. they made a movie out of the meme, right? or Because there was a meme, The Pee-Pee-Poo-Poo-Man.
02:24:00
Speaker
No, the pee-pee-poo-poo-poo man is actually based on a true story from Toronto where a guy was filling up buckets with his own poop and dumping them on people. ah This is a true story. um And ah the the thing is, is that that film was made with many so of the same filmmaking techniques made with the Nirvana, the man, the show, you know?
02:24:20
Speaker
so One of the guys who's one of the new ps sidekicks is in this show. There you go. I was just looking at the cat. That's maybe one of the things I, that maybe that's why I recognized him. Beyond the vinegar syndrome.
02:24:31
Speaker
Okay. That's cool. ah But, but what I'm getting at here is that, you know, ah this style of filmmaking, I feel as though there's like a new mumble core brewing. There's a new. Like way cooler than mumble core. yeah Like fucking punk rock, baby.
02:24:48
Speaker
Dogma 95 shit, you know? Hell yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. but I feel like that's kind of the perfect place to end this off on for Nirvana the Band to show the movie, right? Like, this is the new Dogma 95. This is the new fucking, the new school. This is the new thing that people need to wise up to. And if they don't wise up to it, they're going the dust.
02:25:06
Speaker
And it's appropriate that we did this, like, back-to-back with the Dirties, because, like, the Dirties was almost... i ah felt like, uh, I mean, not, not that it's like one-to-one analogy, but almost like Kevin Smith handing the torch to Matt Johnson. Cause like, I sure i think Matt Johnson is a way more exciting filmmaker in terms of like what Kevin Smith admittedly is just like, he's like, yeah, I'm just putting the camera there. You know, like he's not like trying to go, go got nuts with it. But, uh, the fact that it's like there, there was the era of like, oh, he is the new generation and of like, this is just kind of like, he just did it. He just made the movie.
02:25:43
Speaker
Mm hmm. Well, well, Kevin Smith, he was one of those people who just like, you know, he did the classic thing. He maxed out his credit cards. You know, he did whatever to make the movie happen. And he was heralded as the next Martin Scorsese immediately. Right. And was given immediate like all kinds of institutional power just out the gate. Right. And where did it go? It went nowhere. Yeah.
02:26:06
Speaker
Matt Johnson ah went the same route as Kevin Smith to the degree where he even was produced by Kevin Smith on his first movie, right? And it took him another 17 years to finally make it to the same degree that a Kevin Smith ever did, right? And it just speaks to the place that we are in filmmaking history. But it also does speak to the fact that once you give the people enough time,
02:26:31
Speaker
They know where the stuff is. they know They know where to look, right? And if if people are persistent with their own vision, they will outlast everybody else. Fucking Matt Johnson outlasted Kevin Smith.
02:26:43
Speaker
ah you You say that now, but when you see Clerks 4, you're going to be seeing a different tune. Or when you see Dogma 2, like how long until he goes back and does like everything? He'll even do the ones that people that are universally, to like cop out to.
02:26:58
Speaker
Yeah. Well, Doug, do you know about like Mallrats 2? He's been threatening to make that for like a decade. Why? who wants a Mallrats 2? Stan Lee is dead. You know, that was that was the best scene in a kind of all right i like to i I don't.
02:27:14
Speaker
Some people that's like a pivotal movie. Like I'm like, that wasn't my Kevin Smith movie. So i I think it's kind of very flawed. It's no chasing Amy. Yeah.
02:27:28
Speaker
I it still has the same charm that his all his stuff does of like, yeah, he's just making a movie. Whatever, man. That was probably one of my favorite times, like watching a movie with friends, was one time I invited a couple of lesbians over and we watched Chasing Amy. was a really good time. Did they...
02:27:45
Speaker
i take away anything from the the movie? where they It's not so much that they took away anything. It's that they brought in baseball bats and wanted to kill Kevin Smith. wo Stand behind me, Kevin. I'll protect you.
02:28:03
Speaker
ah No, that's that's what's missing from Kingdom Hearts. The the the view is skew-averse. Twilight of the Mall Rants. There is a dogma, too, in the belt. I mean, i did IMDB, so it would just be like anything that's been remote.
02:28:19
Speaker
Wait, the Sam and Twitch TV, like that that Spawn spinoff that they kept trying to make. that It was like Jeremy Renner, and then I forgot who else was attached to it at one point.
02:28:30
Speaker
This is like a Spawn TV show that Kevin Smith is a part of? the On IMDb, because I remember McFarlane every few years will keep threatening of like, like ah we partnered with Blumhouse, we're doing like a low budget, it'll be like a real horror movie Spawn thing, but then they're also like, oh, we'll do a, because in the comics there's been a spinoff of like these cop characters from it, ah and Sam the salmon Twitch, and he's like, yeah, we're going to Sam and Twitch, and it's going to be... ah fucking Hawkeye and Jamie Foxx.
02:29:02
Speaker
You mean wife abuser? Yeah, and Jamie Foxx, think. Oh, you mean wife abuser? Yeah. And I think once, because originally it was announced as like a movie or that they were first going to appear in the Spawn movie and then the spinoff happens. But like, I feel like the movie started, it's just been in limbo because it was like Blumhouse will not go above a certain budget point of like, we're only making it for like, we rub some nickels together. That's your budget. Yeah. But once you have Jamie, once Jamie Foxx is attached, it's like a much bigger thing. Like, you know, like you can't feel like you can't make a small Jamie Foxx movie like that's not allowed.
02:29:42
Speaker
Especially not with the MGM gambling money he's been getting, you know, in the in the fallout of, again, his domestic abuse charges. I believe that's what it was.
02:29:53
Speaker
ah it was It was something analogous. I feel confident enough to not fact check. I'm just going to go with that because I'm like, I remember. improve yeah He tried to direct that fucking movie that has not been released. Do you know about this? Like Jamie Foxx tried to make a a movie that was in the vein of Tropic Thunder. And he got ah Robert Downey Jr. to play a Mexican and an Asian man.
02:30:17
Speaker
And like, it's just never been released. But they filmed it. They filmed it. It exists somewhere. Okay. Well, that's a movie in itself, the heist to get this footage because I i would... To cancel Robert Downey Jr. once and for all.
02:30:33
Speaker
that's That's the time travel movie we're trying to make. that's the yes He was already pushing it by doing a Nutty Professor's thing in in the Park Chan walk. I mean, it ends up working because that show is satirical. So, like, that it's like, oh, this... I feel like that it is...
02:30:50
Speaker
Yes, you can clearly see the ego argument of Robert Downey being like, ah, I can do all these different characters. Because they're not even related people in the world of the show. It's just supposed to believe that there's all these separate people surrounding the main Vietnamese spy that all look kind of like Robert Downey Jr.
02:31:08
Speaker
yeah
02:31:11
Speaker
Who is it going to be? ah um ah We should bring it back to Nirvana a bit. Um. this is going to be a movie that I know think about for a very long time. It's going to inspire me a lot in terms of just like, you know, making things here. It's very easy to be cynical about being a Canadian.
02:31:34
Speaker
It's very easy to see yourself as like, you know, almost invisible, you know, in terms of the geopolitical scale. And, you know, what this movie does beyond even – Yeah, we beat your ass at women's hockey, so suck it. Go for it.
02:31:48
Speaker
I don't care about sports. You can have it. You know, who gives it shit in my books, you know? But ah but what i'm what i'm what I'm getting at here is just like space. and the time, right? It's like, that's what this movie is about. And that's what this movie is worshiping in a way is just like Toronto in 2008. You kind of had to be there, you know? And I agree. You kind of had to be there and in Toronto in 2025.
02:32:13
Speaker
Kind of had to be there, too. But just 2008 in general, like seeing those billboards and like all the reference points, I was like, man, we did have it pretty good. but Like le Leo at the end of ah um Don't Look, I was like, we really had it all, didn't we?
02:32:29
Speaker
Yeah, right? We had GTA 4 on a billboard. you better like that Hot take, better than 5. Maybe it's because 5's been re-released too many times, like in Skyrim way, where I'm like, all right, I'm sick of it. Give me something different.
02:32:43
Speaker
5's online play is a great business simulator. It's a lot of grinding, but you know, meh. But then when it comes to, you know, ah the story, the story has great missions, but the story is kind of blasé with fantastic performances.
02:32:58
Speaker
Oh, yeah, the voice performances are great. And I love that the guy who plays Trevor does not give a fuck about video games. ah like Like someone asked him, like, is like, are you going to play GTA 6 when it comes out? And he's like, I'd rather read Kurt Vonnegut.
02:33:13
Speaker
He's like, don't give a fuck. And I love that Vonnegut's the go-to considering Vonnegut's like a high school guy almost. You know, you read Vonnegut when you're getting started. And one thing I'll say is also, know, rest in peace. I will never forget the VHS segment directed by Flying Lotus where he came in there and he stole the show. And again, I'll keep going to bat for it. That was a great segment.
02:33:36
Speaker
I mean, he's great in it. It kind of starts to wear me down. I like I get that's kind of the point. But like he. ah ah he Yeah, I'm not going to push back about how good he is in it.
02:33:47
Speaker
um Shout Stephen. agg Come on the pod. Hey, Stephen Hogg, come on the pod. We'll talk about, we'll talk. like Are there, what are some good Vonnegut adaptations? Forget what I just said.
02:34:01
Speaker
Forget what I just said. that That was said in jest, you know? yeah Yeah. We would love to have you on to talk about ah the ah original The Bride starring Sting and ah fucking Mr. Krabs from SpongeBob.
02:34:17
Speaker
What's his name? Clancy Brown. Clancy Brown. We can talk about emancipation. You can tell us what it was like to work with Will Smith post slap. There was also a slap it a joke in Nirvana. Bring it back to Nirvana. The band. Yes. The fact the fact that there's ah a Will Smith slap and there's also a fucking ah Matt just says Obama.
02:34:38
Speaker
The Obama moment. OK, hold on. That was the only other line I got a laugh for my theater. OK, that was the only other time that people laughed. Okay, I guess they have a pulse of some kind, but it's still weird, the stuff they didn't laugh at.
02:34:51
Speaker
The only other thing they laughed at was something that Trump said.
02:34:57
Speaker
something Something Trump said in the movie Dropping Slurs. Hmm, interesting. You got to watch out for these Canadians, I'm telling you. Right after we were glazing Canadian pride. Like, yeah, also got to keep one eye on you guys. it Some of you. Yeah, you know, like, so some of some of us are crazy. You got to you got to admit. And, yeah like, I feel like that's kind of, like, where we can round this off conversationally in this movie. You know, like, I feel like the Canada, it's got some strange parts. There's got some parts that, you know...
02:35:33
Speaker
are less than savory, but this movie is kind of a situation where it's like, this is the best we can do. And it's not afraid to show the the seams.
02:35:44
Speaker
I feel like it's embraces the weird in that, like, that's kind of the element of bringing in like just random people on the street is like, they're not going to like edit out a person just because they look kind of weird or have a weird vibe. They're like, no, that's, that's better. Actually.
02:36:01
Speaker
That's additive. Yeah. Oh, you're a libertarian? Tell us more. You know? Right. like but That's the vibe. Go on. and And I much prefer that style of storytelling than like, you know, let's explain to somebody. Then it's like, yeah. Because it's like, I already know their views are stupid. So you don't have to prove that to me and in a movie.
02:36:25
Speaker
Like, i think I think there's more clever and artistically useful things to do. Like what what Matt Johnson's done here. And yeah, it's just just exciting stuff. Like not just the movie
Cultural Shifts in Global Cinema
02:36:36
Speaker
itself, but like.
02:36:37
Speaker
like what what you're alluding to, like what would be and like what kind of seems like guys might be head for some cultural dominance. Yeah. but look If I were to put money on it, I would say probably China or South Korea is probably going to take the, you know, global hegemony in terms of that, of, of ah you know, cultural output, you know? Well, I didn't mean for like the whole world, but maybe like sure parts of the West, you know? like i think in the West for sure. Because like because because we were we've been uncontested. We're just like, no, Hollywood is here. Like no one else puts out movies but us.
02:37:15
Speaker
when when you get When you Americans catch whiff of our Hallmark movies, it's game over. You know, we make those in a weekend. and My mom's hip to that. That's like one of her main, like, you know, that's part of her media diet is is those Hallmark movies. And i'll watch I'll walk through the room and I'll be like...
02:37:32
Speaker
Bruce Campbell? Sit down for a little bit and be like, Christopher Lloyd's in this as a, like, magic train conductor that takes you to the past? Okay. Interesting. Those, those ah you know, Hallmark movies are like havens for celebrities on vacation, right? Because, you know, they had Christopher Lloyd for a day because he's just sitting in a train car. Like, he doesn't he doesn't even have to stand. He's 90 years old and he's like, I'm the train conductor! And he's like...
02:38:02
Speaker
i just came I just came from filming Nobody 2. I'm just going to sit here. My hip has been busted for weeks.
02:38:12
Speaker
but like that's That's all he does. God bless him. that that He's never going to die. And I never want him to die.
02:38:23
Speaker
Christopher Lloyd's going be like 120 years old, still acting. You know, he's going to be in everything, everywhere, all at once, too. It's going to be great. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, he's in Wednesday. Every once in a while, I see something about Wednesday where I'm like, should I watch that? I know it's probably bad.
02:38:41
Speaker
This, you just unlocked the story I was going to tell you. Okay, so I, okay, so I was at the movie theater at Young and Dundas. The same movie theater that's in Dundas Square, by the way, like in the movie. Oh, okay, cool.
02:38:56
Speaker
So ah when I was there, right, I was in the concession stand to get my popcorn, and I heard a recognizable voice, and I turned to my side, and I saw that the person in the next concession stand over to me was ah Jim Maxwell.
02:39:11
Speaker
So you may not know who Jim Maxwell is by name, but I'll ah describe him this way. ah You know Red Letter Media? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You remember the Canadians? Uh,
02:39:23
Speaker
yeah, not by name. Sure, of course, exactly, right? But, like, you know how there was those two Canadians, right? Right, yeah. He was one of those two Canadians.
02:39:34
Speaker
And so ah the reason I bring him up and was the other one, the bald guy who had the the bald one. And then they didn't show up for a while. I'm saying like the bald guy, if I'm remembering my lore correctly, because there was a while when he wasn't showing up in videos and people were like, hey, what's going on? I think he like came out with a statement that he like like sobered up or something. And because they get really drunk on those. That's someone else. No, no, no, Doug, you're you're mixing it up with Jack Packard, who is like core red letter media ah person. Not Canadian.
02:40:04
Speaker
Not the Canadian. The reason I was going to point to that as well as that the Canadian has a podcast that I listen to as well as ah no No Such Thing as a Bad Movie. Check it out. He's very good on that. um But the um the other one, Jim Maxwell, right?
02:40:18
Speaker
so I hear his voice and i look over and I see him and, and think about that for a second. Right. So I recognize him from red red letter media, right. For like the last time he was on there was like five years ago. Right. And I, I know he's a special effects guy. Right. And I like quickly look on my phone and I'm like, Oh, the last thing he did was Wednesday. He's a, he's a digital matte painter.
02:40:40
Speaker
Right. And like, in that moment, I think to myself, I'm just like, yeah, of course, I'm not going to say hi to him. Like, how weird would that be to just be like, hi, I know you from this red letter media thing six years ago, rather than any of the credits that you've had to your name, right? Like, that would just be disrespectful. So I leave the concession stand line, I sit down in the movie theater, and of course, who is sitting in my very same aisle for Nirvana the Band of the but fucking him. Yeah. And he's got a fucking weak bladder and the entire movie, he's just walking past me, just going, sorry, you know? And every time I'm just like, like, is this the time I just go, I love you from Red Letter Media, you know, like one of those little things, you know, but I never did, you know, I just like one of those things where I'm just like, no, I'm not going to do that because that would be fucking weird. And like, No, yeah, I always think about, like, if I was in that situation, like, yeah, it'd be annoying. But also, get pull, like, he's right there.
02:41:42
Speaker
what he's right there But also it's like such a hyper niche person, you know, just like so somebody who's like, you know, like if it was like somebody who was like 15% more famous, maybe. Right. But he was just like, you know, just under the the wire in terms of like, this is weird, you know?
02:42:03
Speaker
I mean, Wednesday
Humorous Anecdotes and Filmmaking Absurdities
02:42:04
Speaker
was watched by 20 trillion billion trillion eyes. Yeah. drillllian eyes But how many of those people were like, I love the matte paintings? How many view of those people were going, oh, I love the matte paintings of this show? you know like Everyone, because everyone loves matte paintings. every any any and mean Any sane person?
02:42:23
Speaker
Okay, true. I'll go with you there. But then let's go a step further. How many people love matte paintings that much to where they go, I got to get a look at this guy. i got i got to go follow their work, you know, see what other matte paintings they've made. Okay, maybe only 5%, but still, so they exist. It's a statistic that exists. Someone's still out there making matte paintings and they deserve, you know, Nobel Prize for it, is my point.
02:42:49
Speaker
And who knows, maybe after this review, people should be making Matt and Jay paintings. it Amen, brother. and so Big up to you, time.
02:43:02
Speaker
Okay, I think that's a good note to end. You can go home and be proud to be from Uganda. We all want to look them up and...
02:43:19
Speaker
We're gonna get no more poopoo mine! Amen, brother! It's weird. It's a bit crazy. Yeah, okay.
02:43:36
Speaker
And.
02:43:55
Speaker
It's the end of despair.