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BlackBerry (2023) with Jared Gilman
26 Plays14 hours ago
Doug and Tony are joined by a very special guest as they round out their coverage on Canada's hottest filmmaker - actor and fellow Matt Johnson fan Jared Gilman (@realJaredGilman) logs onto the information superhighway with The Guys. Was the BlackBerry the beginning of the end vis-à-vis monetizing all of our free time online? Does Johnson have the chops to direct a non mockumentary feature AND star alongside real actors? There's no better way to find out than hitting that play button!
And if you want more of Jared talking Juicy Things with The Guys tune into their Pitt coverage where they talk theories and ships but also shoot the shit on everything from Jay Kelly to what games Jared has been playing!!
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Transcript
Rejected Million-Dollar Offers
00:00:01
Speaker
I'll give you a million dollars if you sign right now. I am not moving to Canada. We are not having this conversation. Two million. Stop. Three million. I need you to leave.
00:00:17
Speaker
Ten million.
00:00:23
Speaker
Well, you don't have ten million dollars.
00:00:29
Speaker
This is a million dollar option deal. I will backdate that to when RIM was trading at a dollar. Merrill just gave us a target of 13.
00:00:45
Speaker
Is this legal? My lord, is that legal? on I will make it legal.
Introduction to 'These Guys Got Juice' and Hosts
00:01:06
Speaker
Welcome to a very special These Guys Got Juice. It's Doug and Tony. We're joined by a very special guest, Jared. I should have asked up front, Jared Gilman or ah ah our Jillman? Is it?
00:01:22
Speaker
Oh, my God. Oh, I never even realized that was a possibility. It's Gilman. It's Gilman. Okay. I was assuming that, but I want to get names right, you know. Yeah, no, it's like I never think about it like that. I never,
Pronunciation and Cultural Discussions
00:01:37
Speaker
it didn't hit me, could technically pronounce it.
00:01:41
Speaker
Jillman, I guess. I mean, but I don't know if you really can. I think it's like grammatically, I think that like with the GI, it has to be like the hard G, not the soft G, right? Yeah, they would put a J if it was. if it Yeah. The reason like Gyllenhaal is Gyllenhaal is because it's GY. Yeah. If it was in GI, then it's Gyllenhaal.
00:02:02
Speaker
So maybe that's the rule. I don't know. I just know my name has been Jared Gilman all my life. that is This is our grammar focused
Criticism of Branding and Matt Johnson's Work
00:02:10
Speaker
episode. Yeah. if you If you wanted to listen to any Matt Johnson, you know, you're out of luck, right? We're just talking about Jared Gilman, not about his work or anything like that. Just the name. We're just talking about the name. where Yeah, but but, you know, I mean, you know, he's got Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. There's no punctuation there, ah even though it's a list. Yeah, it's kind of a problem. black mary
00:02:34
Speaker
Blackberry has two capital letters. It's one word, but two capital letters in the word. And they're both B. Come on, just choose one B to capitalize. It's easy. And clearly his fault because he came up with that title and it's not a previous. Right, right. The branding. This is a completely fictional story. Yeah. Well, I was actually going to say because it's based on a real thing and and it's matching the real thing. It actually is speaking to the echoes of capitalist greed that it persists time and time again throughout history. So if anything, it's just ah a really ah deep ah critique, you know, that Matt Johnson's making by doing such a grammatical error.
00:03:10
Speaker
Yeah, so let's let's let's dive we' dive into it. we so We're talking the Matt Johnson movie, of Blackberry.
Jared's Journey with Matt Johnson's Films
00:03:16
Speaker
ah Jared, what's your, I mean, i've yeah i I follow you online, so I've seen you been making you know like Nirvana the Band posts or that you are a Matt Johnson fan, but like what what what was your entry point? like Did you get into the show? My entry point?
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. My entry point for Matt Johnson's work was The Dirties back when I was in like high a school, I think. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because that came out in like 2013. probably wasn't aware of it. That's a great movie to watch in high school.
00:03:44
Speaker
Yeah. i hope I think because ah I was watching YMS and he covered it when it came out. And then that kind of, you know, put it on my radar. And then I watched it, <unk>re we're really into it. Shouted to whichever one of my ah fellow film club buddies, you know, at the time.
00:04:05
Speaker
yeah and then ah And then when Operation Avalanche came out, then I made that a film club movie.
Fan Demand for Nirvana the Band
00:04:12
Speaker
ah Then I caught up with Nirvana the Band, the show. And then you know when the Viceland show came out, I went back to the web series. I watched that.
00:04:22
Speaker
And then was watching the Viceland show. And then ah you know the network died. and then And then I found season two on the Internet Archive and watched that.
00:04:34
Speaker
Because they aired it all out of order. yeah Yeah, that's right. All the episodes were all out of order. It was all fucked up. RIP the Internet Archive upload. ah Yeah. Hopefully there's a box set coming soon. ah You know. Yeah, I think Neon. I hate Whispers. Yeah, I seem to remember watching like a ah extended like interview with Matt Johnson where he was talking about the those plans it seems like he he wants Neon to release the first two seasons as like a box set and then he needs more time like to finish season three properly because I guess they've shot like most of it or shot all of it but they haven't edited
00:05:17
Speaker
they've they have he I remember had said like six months worth of of editing still left on it or something like that. okay ah But you know, that's Have you watched the cartoon that they did? Oh, yeah. Madden Bird. matt What is it? Like Madden Bird Go go something. Go nuts or something. but I've seen Yeah, I watched it. It was cute. It was good. I just wish i was a little bummed because it's like three episodes in each 11 minutes. They're very short, but they're all really, you know, it's like Nirvana, the band, the show. If it was, you know, there's bigger animals. Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:51
Speaker
Because it seems like it's just Matt has a scheme. Yeah, it's like it's I think it's like instead of getting going to the Reveille, I think it's like that they're trying to like escape the zoo or they're trying to I forgot what the the... I watched it once a few years ago, but I remember liking it. I remember it had that same energy that the the show does, but you know just animated.
00:06:12
Speaker
yeah That's like the one blind spot, I think. I've never watched any of this animated stuff. I've seen the clips that have been shared, but I didn't even know it had even happened. Was this just like a bonus that they had put out on? it was like I think it was on like Amazon Prime. It was something they they did. Yeah. While they were trying, like, because they had been trying to do like a season three for a while, but they were then they just like did this cartoon for. but Yeah, I believe it was Amazon.
00:06:37
Speaker
Yeah. oh yeah.
Leaked Content and Matt Johnson's Aspirations
00:06:40
Speaker
And then they also think there's also like a leak, I think, with season three material that like got put up online. And so then I don't know if you you saw a couple there was like a couple gifts that were going around that were actually from season three.
00:06:55
Speaker
specifically a gif of the house on fire. oh that's, I've seen that. That's from season, that's season three. I thought that was like a deleted scene or this, my memory is shit. i was like, oh the yeah, I was like, i was like, when was the house ever on fire? I feel like I would remember that episode.
00:07:14
Speaker
ah But no, apparently I was, you know, reading reading replies and stuff. and apparently it's, that was like a season, a leaked season three thing that ah just got out there somehow.
00:07:25
Speaker
And it kind of explains it because I noticed with the movie, the house is different from yeah the one in the show, ah which I only noticed like on my second or third viewing. The first viewing, I thought they just changed the wall ah decorations, but it was the same house. But then I realized that like it was a totally different house. And so is there's got to be some like explanation in season three. They must have burned their house down.
00:07:50
Speaker
place between two in the movie or something. They they should be really blue with the timeline. it I think that actually is the case because i related to BlackBerry, i did get to see the first time I first time i saw it was ah an early screening. Matt Johnson i was there doing Q&As at the IFC Center.
00:08:10
Speaker
but ah And he stuck around and like chatted with like every audience member that wanted to chat with him. So I was like the last dude that got to chat with him that night. and And he was saying that, like, ah because, you know, this back in Blackberry was coming so he was but riding on that to do well, to and you know, allow him to to do season three and the movie.
00:08:35
Speaker
ah But I think it was, he knew was going to be the movie first at that point, I think. But he was telling me even then that, like, season three took place before the movie.
00:08:46
Speaker
Oh, okay. Even on the movie was coming out first. Season three, at least, it starts it starts before the movie starts. And then I guess it continues? Because then the other thing that I heard about it, which more much more recently, ah which is maybe a little conflicting, is that, and this is a minor, this is a bit of a Nirvana the band the movie spoiler alert yeah yeah go to canada's yeah in Canada oh you lucky yeah that's your guys that's like Avengers for you guys it's it's like one of the highest grossing Canadian movies in like ages if you look at like the Canadian box office this is like a record breaker so this is a huge deal that's amazing that's that's great This this movie, Nirvana the Man the Show, the movie, beats the record that Blackberry has. I was going to say because like I thought Blackberry was like huge for for yeah yeah was you guys. Yeah, it was. Wow, that's that's crazy.
00:09:44
Speaker
Yeah. Continue. ah What was I saying? right You were talking about the kind of like difference. like There's going to be like a a point within this third season where it's between the... Oh, yeah.
00:10:01
Speaker
I feel like I read somewhere that apparently the opening of season three now is the completion of the attempted stunt that they were trying to do in the opening of the movie.
00:10:12
Speaker
Interesting. Is how I'll say it without, you know, being detailed about it. mean, we can spoil it because we kind of did. All right. Yeah. Apparently the season's supposed to open in the stadium. Matt actually lands in and does the thing apparently.
00:10:28
Speaker
Okay. that's how I can't wait to see play out. and Yeah. That's incredible. I just can't wait to see how they did it because like part of the fun for Nirvana the Band and just anything that Matt Johnson does is like everything that he makes, it kind of feels like a magic trick almost where it's like, you know, like all of the in-person and public elements of a lot of his projects, when they're pulled off, it's seamless. um And, you know, not to transition too much into BlackBerry, but what I will say is that BlackBerry is such an interesting film because it goes in such a different direction. And and I was thinking about it, right? Because like, the All of the movies that he's made where there's these in-person public moments that feel like ah a prank show, ah they ask you to buy into the reality of the world more than BlackBerry is because inherently BlackBerry is ah a fictional film based on a true story. You're never supposed to see what's happening in the film as literal events. So the fact that it transitions into this more traditional narrative-driven style of storytelling, I think is a really ah interesting delineation point for Matt Johnson. That's why he's a great filmmaker. And the fact that so like they on the band, the show, the movie is working so well should speak to how he's, you know, able to weave through all that. Not to jump too much into Blackberry. too Also makes you really excited for his tony Anthony Bourdain. Can't wait.
00:11:50
Speaker
think Yeah, he is. he is. yeah Yeah, because when he went on Stavi's World, they were talking. Yeah, they were talking about it. together Yeah. Yeah. Very excited to see how that turns out. And what is nick and adam and it's being shot it's being shot by the dude who shot one battle after another.
00:12:07
Speaker
That's true. that's true i did which is like It's so funny because it's like it's the first time he's had su yeah he's been like prohibited from working with his standard DP, Jared Robb.
00:12:19
Speaker
And of course, you know when you can't work with your buddy, who are you going to go to? but like The best. One of the best we our working DPs right now. It's a like what one thing actually that's great about talking about your entry into Matt Johnson early on, Jared, is that I find that what's interesting about Matt Johnson as a filmmaker is that no matter at what period like somebody jumps on, right, when they're a fan of what he's putting out, I feel like he makes like fans for life almost. Yeah. Anybody who gets into his work will just be like, well, I'm into this guy now and I'm going to follow whatever he does. And I think what's interesting about his films and how he's grown as a filmmaker is that he's always leveling up. And when it's ah another level up, you're almost like proud for him. You're like, yeah.
00:13:06
Speaker
and other way He's having one of those runs. he's wild he's He's having one of those moments for sure. Yeah. And and like it seems like a great guy for it. Yeah. yeah Yeah. Super passionate. It's been awesome to see like Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie reached because like people who weren't even like fans of the show are responding. Like the audience I saw it with, I ah just assume most of those people like didn't, didn't see the the show, but they were laughing all the, all the same at all of it. And like just online, the the reaction to it. So like the fact that that is like getting so much traction is, is really heartening because I would say like,
00:13:42
Speaker
that Blackberry is still kind of like his most like accessible film, right? Like, would you guys agree? Yeah. It's like the movie, I would say, you know, if you, yeah, it's like the one, maybe it is like the, maybe a good intro for someone who's never watched a Matt Johnson movie.
00:13:59
Speaker
Like my mom's seen Blackberry, but I don't know if her sense of humor lies with like the, I mean, I'll, I'll show them to Rob the Band to show the movie when I can, but. If it's any consolation, my parents really enjoyed Nirvana the Band the Show.
00:14:12
Speaker
Okay. I mean, my parents love Back to the Future. Yeah, I mean, that's like the thing, too, is it's like the movie is a Back to the Future thing. So if you like Back to the Future, you're at all familiar with that, you're going to most likely have some kind of fun with the movie.
00:14:27
Speaker
Right. the the the The thing also with Blackberry is I could almost imagine that movie playing on TV, you know, with like commercial breaks. I mean, literally, what I mean, the CBC made a miniseries. That's right. I just found that out today. i literally just found that out today. There's extra footage in that. Apparently it's like a three-year cut. Well, okay, okay, okay.
00:14:49
Speaker
So on IMDb, IMDb is like runtime, three hours and seven minutes. And I'm like, whoa, okay. Because I didn't know about this TV version. And I was like, where is this extra hour coming from? So then yeah I posted about it and people were enough people replied to me that I was able to like surmise, know, did they told me what was going on. Yeah.
00:15:09
Speaker
it's only three hours because that's how much that was the broadcast block. So it's like each episode's 45 minutes. So it's like really, yeah it's like 15 minute, nine to 15 minutes more a movie, even though the runtime is three hours. So it's really like a two hour and 10 minute movie.
00:15:28
Speaker
I'm curious what those 15... But I want to know. Yeah, I wish I could have watched that in preparation for this. Because reading about the real guys, there was other stuff in there that i was like, oh, I bet Matt, like, was interested in this stuff. But, like, he knew that, like, didn't contribute to...
00:15:47
Speaker
uh, like the story, because apparently, uh, the real, uh, Mike, like he won a technical Emmy and an Oscar, uh, for, he had came up with this process for scanning film you know, cause they were still filming things on film, but he like streamlined the editing process of like, Oh yeah, you can just scan this stuff and then edited on, on the computer. So he got a, like a technical Emmy and an Oscar for, for, for coming up with that. wow And I know Matt being the film nerd he is, would be like, Oh, Yeah, and that would have been like a fun section of the movie.
00:16:20
Speaker
ah But I guess we should just get into the movie now, right? yeah Because, like, we've been dancing around it a little bit. And I feel like with every one of these episodes, we've kind of talked about, like, where we came in on this movie, or each of the movies in particular. And, like, I feel like mean I'm, like, obviously, as the, you know, Ontario-based Canadian, you know, like, I'm going to have a lot to say about this. I'll just pass it on to you guys, I guess, you know? Yeah.
00:16:47
Speaker
what What were your guys' experience with watching this movie for the first time? ah Well, yeah, I was already, I'd seen the show. It was like a pretty close to this coming, to Blackbird coming out that I like had gotten into ah the Viceland show. And, you know, and then, yeah, of course I went back and and watched the show.
00:17:09
Speaker
the web series, but I hadn't seen any of his other movies at, at this point. So Blackberry was my first Matt Johnson movie. And so was interesting to like go backwards now. And like, this is like our ending, like we've covered all his other movies and this is the, the end point. So we, we did a, like a tenant through it. Uh, uh,
00:17:26
Speaker
and and he's in it yeah the tenant guy is literally in it the guy who says who does the thing martin martin martin martin donovan yeah oh yeah it'll open some of the right doors and some of the wrong door it never yeah does it ever open any wrong doors i mean he does fight himself in that hallway there's all supposed to happen i don't know Come on, have you never had a little spark action? mean, what's-her-name gets shot.
00:17:57
Speaker
Was that supposed to... There's probably a bad door there, but maybe. i don't know. I don't know. it's ah It's a fun saying. It sounds nice. It sounds good. yeah. I mean, that that's why I like that movie. Some people like like to break it apart. Like, whatever parts don't make sense. I'm like, yeah, but it's fucking cool. like Yeah.
00:18:15
Speaker
Yeah. It's, you know, don't think it. Just feel it. Yeah, exactly. Not everything is Donnie Darko, right? Some people try to read into everything as like, oh, it's going to get all these things right. And it's just not going to get that right every time, you know? And in 10, it's exercise of just knowing when to let go. Yeah, although there are some fun...
00:18:34
Speaker
There's some fun little theories, I think. I remember reading one that was ah theorizing that like Robert Pattinson was the the kid, was like her kid. Right, right. I remember reading this at the time.
00:18:47
Speaker
Which I thought was kind of neat. i don't know yeah it that was in I didn't think too hard on it. I don't know if that's legit or there are holes in it. I don't know. But it's like, I don't know, the the the way the movie is playing with time and character relationships and their dynamics. they're both blonde. The things are there. It was like the idea that Pattinson had this whole history with the main character that the dude's not privy to because he just hasn't experienced it yet. I thought it was really cool.
00:19:16
Speaker
I read it as them being boyfriends, like, because I watch because that's like, you know, ah Nolan's a huge Michael Mann fan and Michael Mann makes boyfriend cinema where it's about, you like men who love each other. So like i I kind of especially that farewell scene at the end of Tenet where like, he's like, yeah, we get up some stuff like, oh, OK. Yeah.
00:19:40
Speaker
Read between the lines there. Yeah. Yeah. yeah See, I just assumed it meant that they got into a lot of backwards fighting, but, you know, I guess it could also be some backwards fighting as well. but not Not mutual exclusive. You can call it that too. Yeah. yeah Could be both.
00:19:59
Speaker
Anyway, Black Bear. Yeah. Jerry, tell us about the first time you saw Black Bear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think I kind of did. may i may have accidentally mentioned it already, but just the first time I it was the ah screening at the IFC Center with Matt Johnson and and in attendance for the Q&A. And then I met him afterwards. And then i I did kind of embarrass myself a bit.
00:20:21
Speaker
ah sorry again, Nirvana, the band, the show related, not Blackberry related, but but ah it's just the anecdote of when I saw Blackberry. course. Go for it. So in Nirvana, the band, the show, least those first two seasons, ah in their main room, living space that has all the movie posters everywhere, it's all memorabilia, criterion, all that.
00:20:49
Speaker
ah There's like a little postcard ah by... Kind of close to where the piano is where the end of the wall happens. And then I think it's like a kitchen or something not past that corner.
00:21:03
Speaker
um But so it's a postcard. and um It's like a postcard size moonrise poster. At least that's what I thought. just from watching the show. It's always in the black background. very tiny. It's always blurry. But every time I pause on a frame and I look, I look at the thing and I look back and, like, it looks identical. It's got to be that. And then on the other side, on the other other corner of the room, there's a map, and it looks exactly like the the New Penzance Island map.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah. And I was like, you know, the Blu-ray too, right? I, so maybe. Yeah, I forgot how it, but, but, and so just like, you know, as like a fan of the show, it just was like surreal, I guess, you know, like in high, watching it like high school and college or whatever. And, and it's like, oh my God, there's a little, and there I am in the background.
00:21:56
Speaker
But so then i was just like, if I ever met Matt, I got to thank him for that. You know, just like that little detail. So then, of course, I got to meet Matt three, almost three years ago at the BlackBerry thing.
00:22:08
Speaker
ah And I was like, after yeah talking about BlackBerry and all that, I was like, by the way, I just want to thank you for putting the Moonrise thing in the background of Nirvana's Bandit show. And he was like, what Moonrise thing? yeah no There's nothing Moonrise related in that show. It's all 90s movies.
00:22:26
Speaker
And I was like, yeah i mean, yeah i and i could i what I should have done was pull up an image for him to look at but I didn't do it because I was, i yeah, I should have brought the receipts, but I didn't because I i wasn't thinking I would have needed them. i just thought it would have been like a simple like, uh course yeah you know whatever it was like a whole and then i was like well what about the map like there's a map on the other end and he's like oh i think that's a rushmore map i'm pretty sure rushmore didn't look like that it would be really funny if it did though but uh so that was the one time i met matt johnson and he could have been fucking with you i don't know i feel like he that's like throws people off
00:23:06
Speaker
i I was also kind of wondering if that could have been the case. I have watched more interviews with him where it does kind of seem like he actually is not the type to like fuck with people like that. Right. Like where he's talked about like doing the more on the street stuff with Nirvana and the band of shows like almost like going against his natural instincts as a person to be uncomfortable like that. Right. Which is like interesting. Right.
00:23:31
Speaker
I'd almost describe him as aloof in person, wouldn't you? yeah he's He's almost kind of like, he's focused, but he he does kind of brush over details sometimes. He can tell. He is very like opinionated. He gets very, he's very, like, he has, can tell he's a dude with like a laundry list of hot takes on shit. yeah Crazy news. Maybe lose my mind. Yeah.
00:23:56
Speaker
to To speak about when I saw this movie, right, and I'm not going to, you know, get too much. And I will say I did have a great time with this movie, too. Sorry, because I didn't really talk about the movie. I talked about everything yeah of course. I did have a great time with the movie. I thoroughly enjoyed it And I was it was like, you know, a real like a light bulb of like this guy really can go places, you know, because it's like at that point he had just done like mockumentary stuff, basically.
00:24:22
Speaker
And it was all really good, but it was like, you know, was this all he's going to Is he going to do is is there more in tank? And turns out, is he going to do a quote unquote real movie? You know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:33
Speaker
Well, like, it's like leveling up, right? And you like what you're saying? Yeah, yeah. And, ah you know, I feel like you and I saw him both at the same time, which I saw him when Dirties came out as well. And with the this movie, like he's working with real actors, right? Like he's working with, you know, ah within this fictional narrative kind of approach. But for me, what excited me about this movie when it came out was that, like, just like throwing it to two Americans, right? How many movies about Canadian history can you think of? The 20th
00:25:06
Speaker
There you go. That's a great answer. but But also that I believe that came out like a couple of years after BlackBerry too. but So like, I guess like the 20th century came out after BlackBerry? thought it was before BlackBerry.
00:25:17
Speaker
It was right around the same period. Blackberry is 2021. Blackberry is 2023. 2023. Oh, that's what it might be. So the 20th century might be 2021. 2021. Yeah, yeah. That's what it is. I mixed it up. Yeah, exactly. But you're right. Exactly. So that one is definitely this oddball art house. Yeah. And that's like, yeah, that's not really a history. It's like a, you know, that's like a tongue in cheek history movie.
00:25:44
Speaker
For sure. Oh, Canada. Does that count? no. Unfortunately, a great movie. But like what I'm getting at here. There's got to be some out there.
00:25:56
Speaker
but You're right, though. You are right. Yeah, exactly. What I'm saying is like, you know, there definitely are important Canadian films. There are definitely important Canadian films about Canadian events and stuff. ah But like unless you're specifically clued into this. Oh, Cronenberg movies. Those all happened. Yeah.
00:26:13
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Right. and And that extends to Brandon Cronenberg as well. but Like Possessor is definitely a Toronto as fuck movie, by the way. It's a good representation of Toronto. Yeah. Possessor is happening right now.
00:26:25
Speaker
ah Yes. Especially with how everybody is vaping with the way that they're vaping in that movie. I will never forget it. um But ah yeah, what i what I love about Blackberry is that it's treating this moment in time ah BlackBerry that is as important as and as worthy of discussion. And when it comes to Canadian history, you know, there's a lot of almost like self-conscious ah nature behind it. There isn't like a lot of like, oh, like we have our heritage minutes you may have heard of. We have like, you know, things that we're personally proud of, but we don't really broadcast as much as we say we do. And what I really love about this film is not only is it is like looking at this period in Canadian history, but it's also focusing on our failures. And I think that that's actually like a fantastic way to kind of like talk about ah Canadian national identity, too, because I think that BlackBerry works as like a microcosm for like every Canadian folly in business, art, commerce, everything. You know, like, and we'll get into it when we get into it. ah But this idea that like, you know, starting out with these noble intentions only to be further, further bought out, moved away from your morals and sold out to, you know, all are all around, you know, it's a very interesting film, a lot more going on under the hood. And when I first saw it, I was like, I like a lot of the other Matt Johnson films because they're more challenging in terms of how they play with the form. ah But with something like Blackberry ah returning to it. Me too.
00:27:56
Speaker
Kind of a similar thing, I think. I'm revisiting it just today, actually. Yeah, I feel like I, because I really liked it, ah especially because before I knew, like, the Matt Johnson connection, I was like, oh, a movie about Blackberry. Like, do we have, we we've talked on previous episodes how there's been all, there was, like, a glut of, like, ah you know, tech origin story movies and how, like, a lot of those just, like, don't work or aren't interesting. Flaming hot Cheetos. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's, like, a whole level level of, like, self-importance and, like, right lack of awareness of,
00:28:30
Speaker
everything else but but i would i would say that this yeah this is important like like the story they're telling is important like not just yeah from a a canadian history standpoint but uh a friend that me and in tony uh podcast was shout out elvis and unsourced wall radio but he was saying he saw recently and it almost feels like a pre-apocalyptic movie because especially like when you get that opening montage and also the narration about like communication and and stuff oh Oh, yeah. It's like the beginning of the end, you know? like the like it's It's like the opening of Pandora's box. Right. It's like you they figured it out.
00:29:09
Speaker
You know, it's like it's it's it's watching it today. That was kind of the thing that really kind of hit me, I think, we're with it. It's just the fact that it's like it's good this is the movie where they discovered how to utilize the Internet to really fuck everything up.
00:29:25
Speaker
And to build off of that too, that even even then, right, the fact that they are the people that did that, it was an inevitability that so many people were already trying to do it. yeah and And a lot of this movie is about being in the right place at the right time. And a lot of the people not recognizing that. yeah And and and yeah one thing I also found very interesting too is that like there's a lot of very, like there's a lot of repeating tropes in Matt Johnson films, especially surrounding the themes of like friendship and stuff. I find that this,
00:29:55
Speaker
Yeah, the score is a very social network-y. There's even like one track. There are a couple. There are like a couple tracks that feel exactly like something treadton has Trent Reznor has done or would have done. Exactly. Just like the same like chord progression. Like everything was just like, I was like, oh, wow.
00:30:13
Speaker
Jay is going real. He's getting real close there. it feels It feels like an intentional bit. ah Oh, for sure. Yeah. yeah He's definitely an intentionally coming from that. But going off what you're saying, Tony, like ah in how Matt Johnson's movies depict like various friendships, because we talked about an Operation Avalanche of like, oh, this just just feels like a redo of the dirties in terms of like the Owen and Matt dynamic here. There is, you know, Matt Johnson plays a character ah named Doug, but like that, that. Their friendship isn't even really the main one. Like Mike and like he's there, like he's kind of like a heart, heart of the movie. But it's almost like a seduction of like, you know, when a nerd hangs out with a like a cool jock and is like, i want to be like that. Like because there's like you can kind of track how Mike is like looking at Jim in a way that's like kind of aspirational, you know, like that he morphs into yeah Jim by the end of the movie. Yeah, yeah. You know how Mark Zuckerberg is Dominican now, you know, like how he's always like buffed up and you he's got the curly hair and stuff. ah the The thing like that always happens with these tech bros is that, you know, they present themselves as these nerdy dweebs, you know, we're one of you kind of things. And then the moment that they enter into the upper echelon, the 1%, they feel the need to put on airs about their own masculinity. And it's far more pathetic because that just doesn't fit within their, you know, weight class. so speak right
00:31:43
Speaker
um So what we do see in this film is this corruption of Mike and Jay Baruchel's character. and and And one thing I do want to say before I get into this other thing I was going to say before was that Jay Baruchel as a dramatic actor, like he is trying his best in this movie. I don't think I've ever seen Jay Baruchel attempt to be a more...
00:32:04
Speaker
compelling actor ever before. Yeah. That's not to say that he's great in this movie because I do have some problems with his performance here. I do feel as though this the most he's tried as an actor though. Yeah, I think I would agree with that, although I do really like them in Man Seeking Woman, although that's a very different vibe. That was a fun show. I haven't watched it in long, though.
00:32:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's not even like they took it off streaming, because all the other FX shows are on Hulu, but they don't even have, like, they're trying to hide it. They don't. Yeah. Hey, that that can be your, you know, hidden thing that you need to pirate one day. Mine will be the Rotten Tomatoes show that they put online that there are no clips of. You cannot find the Rotten Tomatoes show, but it was quite good. What was it on?
00:32:46
Speaker
It was just posted online. Rotten Tomatoes? It was on their website. Yeah, but but it was like ah it was a review of the week show with like two hosts, and they reviewed everything. They reviewed international films, hyper-indie stuff, major blockbusters. It was a great snapshot. it was like Exactly. They were good. And like the the problem with it is that it was definitely based upon the Rotten Tomatoes score, right? So like their their critiques would have to be kind of at least lead up in that direction. Yeah. But ah similar to something like, a you know, Cisco and Ebert, it's important to have a record of like, these are the things that came out this week, I believe. Because yeah even if like you go back to that ah archive to see what they were talking about, that you can see these clips from this thing that you have never seen before. You can see these people that, you know, you respect who are involved with these projects. You could draw those things. Not to get carried away on tangent. What I wanted to say about Blackberry, though, is bringing it back to Steve Jobs is that this movie quietly does the same thing that Steve Jobs did, where it all takes place within three separate time periods. And it never really makes a show of it. and That's something I found interesting about this movie, too, is that it like for a foray into narrative fiction filmmaking, this movie is very safe in how it's told. Like it's a very traditional movie.
00:34:02
Speaker
Yeah, like it's it's it's sticking to to what ah tells the story that it's trying to tell, which makes me think of like yeah when we talked about ah the derives like theorizing why why doesn't he like Malcolm X? Like that's going much broader in terms of like the life of ah of a person, whereas it's like let's focus on like these specific events like that that tell one cohesive story. So it's like, I don't know, maybe he has just a more traditional view of like what what biopics should do. i I'd love to ask, like, why is i why Malcolm X? so What's the deal?
00:34:36
Speaker
feel like maybe people, some people have, like, an aversion to, like, anything they think is, like, forced or overwrought or overdone or over the theatrical or, right you know, that kind of thing.
00:34:53
Speaker
I haven't seen Malcolm X. I need to see Malcolm X. I just know, like... Missing out. I know I'm missing out, but I just... i feel like people will like, lob that criticism at, like, Spike Lee's movies. He intentionally breaks your immersion. But it's like, that's his thing, though. That's like... It's like... It's like you're... don't know... I'm trying to be better at like, you know, I'm going to judge a movie, I got to judge it on its own terms. You know, it's like you can't. dread It's like if a movie is trying to be and this this over reductively over, you know, experience. I can't fault it for doing what it's trying to do. Or it's just not for me. Admit it's not just not for me. Right. Yeah, exactly. ah But so circling back to like the eras that it's focusing on, like we start in in 96 and I feel like.
00:35:38
Speaker
and i feel like And not just in terms of like where tech culture is headed of like what this movie, the trajectory this movie depicts. But I feel like this is also like a pivot or turning point for nerd culture because you see at the ah in their office space that they have like, you know, movie nights and stuff. And I feel like this is the there's a difference between.
00:35:59
Speaker
Yeah. It makes it very specific. They're PC gamers, right? They're into Doom. They're into StarCraft, right? Like that that was a very particular subgroup of people specifically in the late 90s that were tapped into a subculture, right? And ah I think what this movie does fantastic up front is that this is like – all about timing really right because like they they they they have this space that they were making these modems for this company that's screwing them uh so they have a staff that's ready to go they have some people who know what they're doing right uh but then you all the only thing that they're missing is like a shark they're missing like a guy who will you know break some legs and And that's when Glenn Howerton enters the picture. And and and what I love is that introduction to him up front in this movie, because like like what like the the guy who's the owning of the company, like he says, like, we're going treat you seriously. you think you can do that? And in the entire time when there's that intro to him, i imagine it's talking about Glenn Howerton as a performer. Because like I think that what's so funny about this movie is that this is very clearly like his first major dramatic roles in a while since it's always sunny. And this movie is asking you to take him so seriously. And and I think it really works. I think Glenn Howerton anchors this movie. Yeah, he is fantastic in that.
00:37:20
Speaker
really like And this was like my first, i what have i going back to my first viewing of this movie, At that point, I hadn't actually watched It's Always Sunny yet. Oh, really? Nice. So this was one of the things I had watched, and I was like, damn, that Glenn Howard and guys, great. I got to watch It's Always Sunny. Because i'd seen I had seen like episodes, like scattered episodes when I was in college. I thought it was really funny. i was just daunted by the season count.
00:37:48
Speaker
Right, for sure. I don't want to watch 15 seasons of the show any show at that point it's like then I watched yeah and then then I watched ah Blackberry and I was like shit this guy's good and then I watched Fools shit Fools not Fools Paradise the Charlie Day movie that's that that one Yeah, good bo yeah I watched it. And Glenn Howard was in that, too. ah You know, I was just like curious. I saw it.
00:38:20
Speaker
So watched those two movies. And then I was like, fuck it. I'll watch It's Always Sunny. See how it is. And then I blew through it in like a month. Yep. Same here. I was like, this is one of the funniest things. I keep watching.
00:38:35
Speaker
And even on that show, right? Like, Howerton is always positioned in a way where he's going so over the top in a dramatic way that it always like, how has nobody tapped into this vein before? Right? Like, why did he take this? I mean, he's like, plays such a fucking, like, psycho. Yeah.
00:38:50
Speaker
on that he like just like all the times he loses his shit yeah yeah like the whole like the implication you know like when he does that like breakdown that that is like ah an eerie moment but at the same time it's played so well for laughs so to have him like take that skill set to bring it into a dramatic setting i think makes so much sense I think when, like, they were doing that, when the American Psycho remake, reboot, whatever the fuck was announced, people were like, Glenn Howerton should be in the ring for this. But, I mean, you know, he would have made fun American Psycho. feel like that's more interesting than Jacob Elordi. Like, isn't that where they were kind of, like, trying Is that who they I don't know. They probably want to young, right? Yeah, yeah.
00:39:35
Speaker
And like Glenn Howerton at this point is he's what? Close to the same age as Christian Bale, right? Yeah. I think he's, he's already in his lower fifties. I think or late forties, maybe.
00:39:46
Speaker
but But that being said, like this movie here is a great examination of the mind of a businessman, right? yeah the the The way that Glenn Howerton is moving in this movie, right? There's, there's a certain patheticness to it. And, oh yeah. It's like the first opening scene, he's getting dressed down. Yeah.
00:40:02
Speaker
and And this is a very Canadian specific thing. I'm opening my own Pandora's box here and bringing this up. But the first time that we see him is when he's in the car and he's driving and you hear him listening to the radio about the the Leafs, and the Maple Leafs. And and it's established throughout the whole movie that he's this fan of this team. Are you guys familiar with like the reputation of the Maple Leafs? They're not good. Really? No. Yeah. Do they suck? Jared's right. You got it. So so they're almost like the Chicago Cubs, right? Like they haven't won a Stanley Cup since the 70s. They're they're in the rivoli of teams.
00:40:34
Speaker
Exactly. I'll have you know the Cubs won a World Series in, so who I don't know, the 2010s, whenever that was recently. To put into perspective, Doug, the whole thing about the Leafs is that they always make it to the playoffs. They always make it to like the final four or final game even. But then they always choke. So like to me, I see like being a Toronto Maple Leafs fan is like a system of task. It's almost like to be a fan of them is to like hate yourself and to be in pain all the time. And to hear him be such a Leafs fan and to have this be this reoccurring thing, because you can see where he wants to go. He wants to like, you know, own teams within the Leafs. He just wants to own sports teams. funny. He wants to own sports teams, but he never wants to own the Leafs because the Leafs are so huge, right? And you can tell that, like, he hates the Leafs almost, but he loves them, and that's where he ultimately wants to go. And he also, like, sees his own struggle of just, like, losing all the time as analogous to the Leafs. Like, I see that in who he is as a character almost. I don't know if I'm pulling too much because of my closeness, but, you know.
00:41:40
Speaker
No, little I mean, I feel like it's all there. i mean, if it's it's there, I feel like it's sent it's intentionally there. don't think you're going too far, dude. feel like there's got to be something. They bring up Matt Sundin by name. And, you know, for for no way for being around when Matt Sundin was playing, I know that pain. ah But ah what what I love, too, about this introduction, ah you know, to Canada at this time and what they're trying to do,
00:42:06
Speaker
It's all about like off selling things to other companies. Right. It's like you we're doing these things on the cheap and other people are kind of fucking us over. And this whole thing is about like their ownership. The thing that they create, you know, with this pocket ah pocketing email. Yeah. Pocket link. That's what they call it. Yeah. And by the way, like I love the design that they have on that little graphic. What do you guys think of the first pocket link?
00:42:28
Speaker
Yeah, it was cute. Yeah. yeah ellthough I love the the notes of all the ah optional names that he was trying to come up with. He was like scratching them out in the notepad. Yeah. And it's interesting that Mike is so bad pitch. They have a good revolutionary product here. They don't know how to sell it. Mm-hmm.
00:42:49
Speaker
Doug is a little bit more sad, although he's like too still versed in his own nerd. He's like too much of a loose cannon, but he is a good seller. When he lands on the right, like topic, to the right, like thing phrase,
00:43:04
Speaker
You know, there's some, yeah know, there's Mike had some, you know, a bit i where Jim's like, have you ever heard the phrase? ah Don't let go perfect be the enemy of good.
00:43:19
Speaker
Good enough. And then Mike's like, well, good enough is the enemy of humanity. Great Great line. Johnson in here. Yeah. It's like we have two seasoned actors, you know, even if they're talented. He's holding his own. Yeah. He makes it work. And it was funny when I met him, I think I asked him like how it was working with them and like if they were even like improv-ing or if it was more scripted. And think he had said that like They, Jay, Jay Baruchel and Glenn Howerton were both pretty on book.
00:43:51
Speaker
And then when it came to him when it came to Matt, he just was like, throw, he threw the book away and just sort of did whatever I think. he was three He said he was the one who was like improv-ing ah the most out of everyone. and then yeah But sort of like improv-ing around everyone else's lines. So not like going, not straying, you know, not making them say anything they wouldn't naturally... wouldn't they hadn't already memorized but like not keeping the keeping the emotionality of a true yeah hitting the same beats but then it seemed like but when he was shooting stuff with like the uh the the other guys the computer nerd guys that was all very like spur the moment and improv
00:44:35
Speaker
I think. Because some of those poters I've seen like went in Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, when he comes back. Yeah. Ben Patry, I think. Yeah. yeah yeah then he's's He's like one of the like his his like new gang. And so like he's one of the yeah here.
00:44:51
Speaker
And then also, too, it's funny, those all all those people show up and and and around in the movie, their first scene is the bit when the lightning strikes. Right. Because they're going to play the Rivoli. Like, I didn't even notice that the first time I saw that movie. that Like, those those guys were already established characters, and and you know, in the story. Yeah.
00:45:11
Speaker
Great story. That movie is built to be like rewatched over and over again. Something I was going to bring up in relation to this is that like, uh, by like, this is something that Doug and I have talked about on previous episodes. And this is this idea that like, uh, because Matt Johnson is also the director of the project, he's somebody has to maintain the tone of it all. Right. Right. So for him to be as good at improv as he is, it allows for him to like in the moment, like understand like how the scene is flowing. And rather than like do traditional direction between takes and stuff, he's able to in the moment adjust those things in character. And I think that that yeah especially in this kind of movie, that's a really interesting dynamic to bring in.
00:45:51
Speaker
But what I will also say is that ah there is a rigidness to this film. And and and you can tell there's a rigidness because ah of the aforementioned aspects of Glenn Howerton and Jay Baruchel being these comedic actors. When you said, Jared, that like ah Matt said that they didn't really improvise a lot, you can tell that those two actors want to be taken seriously in this film.
00:46:13
Speaker
and And I think that Glenn Howerton succeeds in that realm. And I think that Jay Baruchel actually kind of blends into the scenery a bit too much here. And and that's a shame. I wish that Jay Baruchel was able to...
00:46:24
Speaker
you know, put a bit more insight this. I feel like had some good moments. I mean, I love the ending. I love him at the end when he's, like, obsessively going through each of the new phones and, like, fixing the hiss problem.
00:46:37
Speaker
Like, I feel like it's maybe by design a much... It feels like Mike blends into the background, you know, like that he's a guy who's just kind of all- Yeah, he's not like ah he's not at all the kind of character that Jim is.
00:46:49
Speaker
and He's like the polar opposite. it I'm just asking for like one, you know, ah you would have invented Facebook moment, you know, like a Jesse Eisenberg kind of dressing down of somebody. and and And I agree in the sense that, like, you know, the fact that he's not that type of person, the fact that he has to get Michael Ironside to start delivering his notes right there, that speaks a lot to his character. It's also interesting, too, because, like, he's the only character.
00:47:17
Speaker
Well, him and Jim are really the only characters that age as the movie progresses. Matt looks the same pretty much. That's true. Everyone else really. proger friin Like he looks nothing like, like this is pretty much like, an well, cause I think he said that the he like yeah he, he hacked himself into the movie basically. Yeah. Well, he, he said he'd made himself like more of a mascot, like for the company, but then he's also kind of just like representing nerd culture of that time. Mm-hmm.
00:47:45
Speaker
Obsessed with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, too. Yeah, love Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Wallet at the the fucking restaurant. They're gonna they're going to chew the pill and they just have, like, pennies. And he's like, come on, guys.
00:47:58
Speaker
I love that difference in knowledge of the business world that we get up front because obviously, you know, Doug and and Mike, they have no idea what it means to run a business. And ah there's a level of advantage taking that Glenn Howerton is doing, and you know, in in understanding their ah lack of understanding and all that stuff.
00:48:20
Speaker
ah But ah he doesn't see all of it either. And when he buys the company, he realizes he took on a bunch of debt as well. So it feels there's almost like a tit for tat going on there. And I really like that, the fact that like he is up against the wall, not because he like he needed it because he lost his job, but also like he's he's going out of his way to put himself in more dangerous scenarios. And and it fits really well with the inadequa inadequacies the other two have.
00:48:47
Speaker
imnna Yeah, it's also just interesting seeing him, the progression of him, like not caring or really caring about the product. Yeah, because he's like genuinely invested in he's a shark. So he sees an opportunity in the beginning. Yeah. But but but to compare this to another movie, he almost is like he's kind of like the Matt Damon of Oppenheimer, where he like he needs these nerds to build this thing. Like he he just yeah needs that to be the case. are he's He's fucked if this doesn't work. Yeah. But yeah. but also he doesn't fully understand the implications of what they're doing.
00:49:22
Speaker
No. He's kind of a necessary evil, right? If he didn't step in, they wouldn't have, have you know, even made, turned a profit, right? They would have just collapsed within, and like, a couple of weeks maybe, you know? Yeah. ah but But the whole movie is asking the question of, but at what cost, right? They they they did all of the success, and obviously all of these people have fuck you money at this point and have retired successfully.
00:49:47
Speaker
I mean, yeah, Doug is the one of the richest people on the planet now, apparently. I i love it, man. He constantly gets to play a guy who's – last and Operation Avalanche, we said, like, his character is, like, the greatest filmmaker ever if he faked the moon landing. And then in this, he plays – And he got away with it. Yeah. And then this, he plays one of the richest guys ever.
00:50:06
Speaker
ah Yeah.
00:50:10
Speaker
And then also the ah the idea, too, with Nirvana the Band, like is there's a throwaway line in like the bank robbery episode. I totally forgot about it, but i don't someone posted a clip on Twitter where he has a line where ah something about his dad paying off all the police or something. like He has a line that implies that a he guy actually comes from a lot of money, but the parents cut him off.
00:50:33
Speaker
Like the dad doesn't want him by spending too much so he like pays people to keep tabs on him or something. Like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. yeah Something like that. Apple baby. Yeah. Yeah. Totally explains the fedora.
00:50:46
Speaker
Yeah. It explains it because like everything they do and the house too, you're like, true. You never see them making any money. So you're like, how did they do any any of this? Doug, if they worked other jobs, they wouldn't be artists. They wouldn't, you know, have band. No, exactly. So like they have to keep all that away so they can focus on their craft.
00:51:06
Speaker
ah Then poor Chase can't even afford 10 chicken nuggets on his birthday. I hope I'm not there. i hope that's not me.
00:51:16
Speaker
um But yeah, no, with a BlackBerry, right? um ah We get that transition ah from like not making any money to money seen through like Glenn Howerton coming into this business, right? And taking over ah in sorts.
00:51:31
Speaker
ah Hiring a secretary, this idea that like a woman entering the space is this complete shattering moment for them. And and I was saying this to Doug before you joined Jared, but like this movie is... Literally, it's like two shots. Yeah. The one the one joke toward the end of the movie where Michael Ironside, I think it's Michael Ironside's line about all the these ah fucking... You said something like Gary Jumbo. Yeah, sausages. Sausage fest in this room. it zooms right into the one female member of the group.
00:52:07
Speaker
just, like, looking around, like, ah Yeah, that zoom is great because, like, we said, like, this is, like, not a mockumentary, but he's still, like, the the camera's, like, far away from the subject so it can do those zoom-ins and stuff. Yeah, well, I also was watching... i looked up some, like, behind-the-scenes stuff in interviews, and he was saying that, like, his approach was very similar for, you know, this and the way that, like, he shoots his other stuff because it's always... Always about like how feasibly, if there were camera people here as this was happening, how would they go about to cover it? If we had two cameras going live at the same time, how would we like actually physically do this?
00:52:49
Speaker
And ah just like taking that kind of philosophy, but not applying it to like a mockumentary, but like rather a narrative. Which was actually, i thought i paid it paid off pretty well for this. Yeah, there's always a a level of logic there. It feels like they almost like overcompensate because like when it comes to people, when they're shooting handheld, they either have it on you know like the thing that they've got there and it's bouncy and then ah you know there's obviously putting it on your shoulder, but it's very heavy, so a lot of that has to be faked.
00:53:21
Speaker
ah The way that they had shot it so it looked handheld was that they just put a mount on the tripod so it was like an elevated ball. Yeah, they were on like a little ball. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. i I feel as though that's like such a great decision in terms of yeah and this particular kind of movie because it gave the camera operator so much control over how lifelike it could be. And and it and literally took the weight off of their shoulders in the sense that the camera operator is not wearing it and they can send focus on like what the scene is actually about. So I thought that that was a really great way for them to film this.
00:53:55
Speaker
Yeah. And just from the like the color palettes of like, I guess, you know, just like the light diffusion they use. It does look like. Yeah. Because we talked about Operation Avalanche. is Like he didn't use like film cameras to make it look like the 60s. It was just like, you know, post stuff. But like, yeah, you can make it look. It looks like the late ninety s or early 2000s. Like like I feel like they did pull that off, even though they're using like modern cameras.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like each each time period has like a slightly distinct like color palette. And each one gets more and more white-gray.
00:54:31
Speaker
on that note, actually. It goes from brownish to white-gray. All the stuff that happens early, you look to it almost. Jim. Yeah. Jim, sorry. Jim Ball's Silly.
00:54:45
Speaker
Or Ball's Silly. he decide He takes it either way, remember? like Sometimes you'll just look let it slide. but but But I think it's really important and interesting that like we get that differentiation right between America and Canada. And then there is that transition that happens where it's like they almost like take on that color identity as the film goes along, as the age moves forward. It's this idea that like, uh, specifically within industry, right. In Canada can often have these innovations, right. But then it often gets sold off to American interests and then they take it over and they make it worse.
00:55:21
Speaker
Right. That's kind of like the history of Canadian industry at large. Uh, so I think that this film is even representing that in its color palette. Yeah. I mean, once you're committing like stock fraud, like that's very American, you know, so like you're running a company like an American.
00:55:40
Speaker
That's the thing with him. Like, I feel like Glenn Howerton's character is the guy who read what a business guy should be, but it like doesn't actually feel comfortable in the role. Like he's always putting on an act and and there's a level of insecurity there. ah There's a way to overplay that kind of character. But I think that Howerton does such a great job because he puts his aggressions forward all the time yeah i love the whole like third act like him trying to do like three meetings in three different states at the same time i'm just doing a kind of failing at everything yeah none of them go well like yeah it's great
00:56:18
Speaker
Before we get too far from the beginning, I want to like, Tony, do you have any insight on the mask in Jim's office? because Oh, all the masks on his wall? are Because he does that later when they have their own office, like that he like had he has the mask again. Isn't that the same office, actually? think it's the same. Yeah, I thought he was in his, I thought i thought ah Mike was in Jim's office in that bit.
00:56:39
Speaker
And and it also, I thought it was important because I thought that was the same office they went to at the beginning of the film to meet with Jim for the first time. Right. And then they bought out that building after they made that. make up and That makes sense. like Yeah. Yeah. i mean, because in the time it's passed that they would have just yeah yeah absorbed them.
00:56:58
Speaker
And then to build off of your point, Doug, that so that wall of faces. Right. Like the the the prominent image that we first time like the first time we see that prominently is with ah them when they're pitching. Right. And then the next time we see it, it becomes the office of Michael Ironside, I believe.
00:57:17
Speaker
So I think that like that does speak to the transition in terms of mentality. Right. To say that, like, that's where they started and that's where they ended up. I have no insight in terms of like what those masks mean. That's not a good that's not Canadian in my eyes. They just look spooky. So like it's um very ominous when you focus on them, like at the end, like when it comes full circle. So i was say you and he went he went traveling to some somewhere else and he was like, I got to take that from my office.
00:57:41
Speaker
And I scared the shit out of everyone. It'll tie the room together. Yeah. that That's... ah Like, we're kind of getting it also into, like, the way that their motivations change throughout the film. Because we've already brought up that whole hissing thing. And we get that moment where Jay Baruchel has to fix the hiss that's happening in the intercom. Yeah. And it becomes this, like... gina moment of change that goes through the whole film where it's like how much is Jay Baruchel going to let slip in the pursuit to become great and he's also the person who kind of suffers the most in the end and I think that that's an interesting way to portray that right because you think Jim would be fucked because like he's the one he's like they're kind of sacrificing to the SEC but then the end texts are like yeah he didn't do any jail time like he's fine yeah he's fishing with Kerry Elwes yeah yeah
00:58:34
Speaker
Another great actor who appears in this movie. Oh, yeah. He was funny. character roster in this is great. Yeah. Lots of great actors in this movie. I feel like Cary Elwes is one of those actors who you're like, hey, I've got a ham sandwich. Can you be there by Sunday? And he's like, ah you bet. You know, like he's he's those ah one of those actors where you go through his IMDb. He's been in like Christian films, right? yeah Yeah. He never says no, but he knows how to act. yeah So like to to to have him come in for this kind of role, like that speaks to good casting in my eyes. He can make Metal Gear Solid exposition in Mission Impossible movies sound like kind of like when he starts talking about the AI. You're like, well, this sounds serious.
00:59:15
Speaker
I mean, he's a ton of fun in the Saw movies he's in. Oh, yeah. The two Saw movies that he's in. It's the way they bring him back. so Yeah.
00:59:26
Speaker
I have a new theory, and I just came up with this theory right now. Is Cary Elwes poised to be the next Eric Roberts? of ah Eric Roberts has all those direct-to-DVD people. Oh, you don't know? don't know, only because I feel like, well, a Eric Roberts is still working like a madman, so, you know. there's He's not going away anytime soon, as far as I'm aware. For sure.
00:59:54
Speaker
Also, Cary Elwes is not that much younger, is he? Like, probably 10 years max, 15 years, you know? So I see your point there.
01:00:05
Speaker
It's kind of hard to say, because it's just like, it's you don't have a lot of young, you don't, the way that industry is it's like you don't have a lot of like actors half his age who are working at like that level where it's constant work every week is another little indie movie or something like that is like a unicorn in of a life yeah eric roberts is 69 and then uh carrie elvis is 63
01:00:38
Speaker
so Holy shit. Yeah. i didn't think that Cary Elwes was that old. I thought he was much younger than that. looks great. mean, got to remember, he was in Princess Bride like 40-something years ago. yeah That is true. You know?
01:00:51
Speaker
And and to to bring it back to like the performance level of Carrie Elwes, I think that he's doing such a great job in terms of being like the shit-eating grin. like Yeah. the guy When it cuts to them in the diner and he's like mid, like laughing so hard at like the dumbest, like,
01:01:08
Speaker
tangent joke whatever story like fucking and then and then fucking Mike just texts this guy is insane. Oh, stylus pen or something. it's like safe and he's like, he's like, all right, we got to merge. We got to they combine our phones. Palmberry. so So actually, like we haven't even talked about this, right? So so like, let's talk about our own personal ah connections to BlackBerry. Yeah. you know, yeah, yeah. what I got I got an history.
01:01:38
Speaker
There you go. Tell me. My dad was a proud BlackBerry owner, and i would love borrowing it to play Brick Breaker. You're absolutely with the trackpad, right? Yeah, with the trackpad, and I was addicted to Brick Breaker.
01:01:53
Speaker
Also, this is a slight bit of lore, and I had meant to clear this up with my dad before this, so I actually might get up and run over and just clear it The accuracy. ah sure. Because I think it's it's pretty pertinent to this movie.
01:02:10
Speaker
um My dad's old job i involved... ah yeah He worked for an insurance company, but he worked in like...
01:02:22
Speaker
ah communications and specifically in like setting up meetings ah that they would have and setting up like speaker event, like people had to come and do talks or pitch pitches or whatever. I'm not sure. But Jim Ballsley was one of those people who like, oh shit forget if my dad interacted with him, but like, I think he saw him like in person.
01:02:43
Speaker
ah So I just remember, because you know, my parents, I showed him. You know, I showed my parents BlackBerry, and you know because we're all Matt Johnson fans in this house. And my dad was like, you know, I saw Jim Ballsley live once. I was like, what? and but I think it was either he saw him or he met. My dad's downstairs. I could literally just, like, go and ask him. Yeah, feel free if if you want to. If you want to, go for it.
01:03:08
Speaker
I'll be right back to clarify this story for you guys. Of course. Real-time fact-checking. This is great. In the meantime, Doug, like just to fill space, you know, like, Doug, what was your experience with Blackburn? I think it was, like, the curve or something. and to me You had the curve? I i don't... if Is the curve the one... Like, it didn't...
01:03:29
Speaker
have it was just the regular keyboard at the at the bottom and then you know there's the no track pad right no track pad but I could still play like snake on it right yeah so I did that a lot and it pretty much was just for calling home but to me like that wasn't you know like this is supposed to be like the first you know the start of smartphone like he's saying that this is he created this entire product class but in my mind I was like, oh, I don't have a smartphone yet because I saw friends who had iPhones, you know, and then I was like kind of a late adopter to that. And I was because I had an iPod, but, you know, I didn't have them ah as one device. So I was having a little bit of FOMO. So I was like, yeah, I don't have like a smartphone. And then when I finally got like a hand-me-down, like, you know, like first-gen iPhones, like, oh, finally, now I'm i've caught up. But... the The fact that I'm an adult. Yeah, now I'm an adult. But it's like, no, well, technically that Blackberry was, you know, you did. If you could do anything other than call someone on it, then it is a smartphone.
01:04:35
Speaker
Yeah. I think I talked about this on the pod before, but like I grew up in that period right when that transition happened. Right. Like when when BlackBerry to iPhone was the thing that happened. And it was such an interesting point in time because like some of the things that are said in this movie were like word for word things that I had heard from people that, you know, i grew up with who had BlackBerrys. This idea that, like, you know ah you know, Crackberry is brought up as a a nickname, you know, and, like, that's something that people actually called it, you know? And this idea that, like, the click of the keyboard was the reason that people bought the device. All right, I'm back, I'm back.
01:05:18
Speaker
Jared, welcome back. We got the scoop. right, yeah. back. My dad, not only did my dad ah see Jim Balsley do a keynote address at ah his company, but he hired him for it.
01:05:32
Speaker
Amazing. and did did you have it Did your dad have any insights in terms of his anger level? You know, like, was he an angry man? It was so long ago. This was back in, like, 90s. My dad. Okay. Also at the beginning. He he was like, it was like a a, yeah, it was more of like an educated guess. Not exact not exactly sure if it was 96, but he thinks it's it was around 96 or so, which is I didn't bring it up but with him because it was a quick interaction. Of course. yeah I just thought it was funny because like that's literally when this movie starts.
01:06:06
Speaker
Right. Yeah. If if my dad and had this hired him in the the year that he got fired and had to go to to the Blackberry guys.
01:06:20
Speaker
Hilarious. Probably not, though. but But... Yeah, and then I was trying to get a little more details from my dad, but it was a little hard because it's hard for him me to remember something from, like, that long ago. Right. With, you know, any kind of real good detail.
01:06:33
Speaker
um But... Because I was trying to be like, well, did did did Glenn Harrington look like that like that? And he was like, I don't remember. I had like a couple conversations with a man. Like it' it was so long ago. Yeah. But he said he didn't have too many like actual interactions, I guess. but But he did hire him for a keynote address ah way back when.
01:06:55
Speaker
but That's cool. So, yeah. if there's anything we know about the character in this film is that he's good at talking. You know, he's, ah he knows how to command a room. So it makes sense that he kind of loses it towards the end, but like, that's like his power at the beginning. It's, it's his ability to, to spin a yarn and talk. And then also just his, his ruthlessness. Like we keep saying like, he's a shark. And I, and I love that line from Mike when he's like, ah Doug trying to warn him, like, we don allt want to work with this guy. And he's like, do you know who's afraid of sharks? Pirates. Because like that they were being ripped off by pirates. sad by the, yeah, the, what was it, the U.S. Robotics?
01:07:30
Speaker
Yeah. Well, thats that's kind of the the thing that Mike thinks that he has. He thinks that his technical know-how makes him, you know, a valuable asset. But I think what this movie shows you time and time again is that ah A, right place, right time. But then B, like, their scope of innovation is only to meet what the market is desiring rather than, like, knowing what the market is going to want. Right. so Yeah. so like The future.
01:07:59
Speaker
Yeah. So Jared, before, before you came back, Jared, like we were, Doug and I were talking about, ah you know, BlackBerry as it was coming out and stuff. And, and Doug has a BlackBerry. And like, for me, what I was talking about was like, I witnessed the transition in real time between BlackBerry and iPhone and seeing like those people who had that brand loyalty. And a lot of the things that they say in this movie as things are falling apart, you know, like the click of the keyboard, You know, encrypted messaging, you know, like these are all things that are like niceties. These are things that you get used to over time and also fits within your perception of what a phone used to be.
01:08:37
Speaker
Right. ah But but the moment that something like an iPhone comes out where it's just that touch screen, ah people don't want to go back. That changes yeah the entire game. And then there he was so judge judgmental of the touch screen. He just thought it had no chance.
01:08:52
Speaker
He couldn't think beyond. You thought you'd do a compromise with a touchscreen that still clicked. Yeah. It was just like so confusing to even like pitch. It's like a screen on like a keyboard on a screen on a keyboard. Like, huh? Well, he's talking about that prototype that's revealed at the end of the film and not to jump ahead too much, but like, you guys remember when that phone came out? Because I do. the Oh, God, the storm. the storm, yeah whatever. And then they all had to get recalled because they sucked. Yeah.
01:09:21
Speaker
And I forget if my dad got a Storm or not. I know he had the trackpad one, but I don't remember if he actually got the Storm or if that if if if at that point he had already jumped ship for the iPhone.
01:09:34
Speaker
The trackpad one was actually popular. No, i was just going to say I definitely jumped ship. I was a late iPhone adopter, but by the time the Storm came out, I was definitely had you know abandoned. Yeah, my my first phone was the iPhone 4.
01:09:49
Speaker
Right. That was when 12. 11. I got it for finishing the fifth grade. That was that was it. Nice. My middle school present. Yeah.
Firefly Phones and Joss Whedon
01:10:00
Speaker
My first cell phone was a Firefly. Do you guys know what Fireflies are? just Are they like a flip? Not a flip. um Not a flip. They're they're just kind of like a brick. ah But what what it was was like it was a phone for kids where like there was only like a few preset numbers. Oh, you could call your mom and then like that's it. yeah And the reach was always like, take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand. Yeah. Oh, And then it turns out Josh Whedon made the whole thing. like Now they've been recalled. because Yeah, disavow, disavow. Actually, Doug, you bring it up with your ah glorious pipes. This song's got, sorry, this movie's got a great soundtrack. Great soundtrack.
01:10:47
Speaker
and Jinx. but But yeah, like that was something that I kind of forgot about before my rewatch
Music and Humor in Films
01:10:53
Speaker
today. ah was just how good that soundtrack is. feel like general, Matt Johnson has a great ear for music.
01:11:01
Speaker
That moment when they're dancing to Return of the Mac. Oh, and incredible. As Korea Elway coming in. Like, ah that was one of those things where I'm like, you know, this is a moment that every filmmaker wishes they could get to almost. and like yeah you You're watching Operation Avalanche and they're like cheating to get what they want, you know. ah But like, you you get a sequence like that where you're like, it's a dance party. There's a Return of the Mac. It's a great vibe. And it's like, this is a real movie. Go ahead.
01:11:27
Speaker
I cannot fucking wait to see what he gets for Tony. Oh, my God. It's definitely going to be, like, more Dad's Rock than this one was. Probably. This one definitely exists within, like, cool art kid, like, 90s grunge into, like, 2000s pop indie scene. But Bourdain probably was not listening to that stuff.
01:11:50
Speaker
We're going to get more Foo Fighters. We're going to get, you know, like, yeah like the grunge is going to be the name of the game there, I think. Yeah, absolutely. ah We were talking about the the character actors in the in the cast. I don't want to skip over ah when they first sell their their phones to, I think it's Verizon. Saul Rubinick is the guy there. I always think of him ah from um Unforgiven.
01:12:13
Speaker
ah but But he's he's been in in tons of stuff. But I love that first pitch because like immediately things start going wrong of like he's left the prototype. and they Yeah, he forgets the prototype. And then Jim's just like, i and then and then yeah Mike's the one who's like, well, did he do did you set them to be clients on the network? Because you can't do that because it's going to draw more power. Yeah. It's like, well, all the technical jargon in the movie was really ah well done. i mean, I have no expertise whatsoever, but as a dumb person, I found it very entertaining. and like It felt accessible.
01:12:51
Speaker
Yeah, i it felt accessible. i didn't I'm not going to pretend I understood what it but you know any of that was, but like I could follow it on a logical, like, this is good, this is not good kind of thing.
01:13:03
Speaker
In the same way that like I watched something like, the pit right ha yeah hit wink wink and they got medical jargony on that show and I have no idea what they're saying but I understand the emotions of it well and you're seeing them do the thing as they do it so that helps because it's very visual but I would almost liken the how they do the the tech speak in this to like how if you're watching like a finance or business show like kind of like secession I've even started watching oh yeah actually yeah it is a little more secession it's yeah because it's a lot of like uh yeah
01:13:37
Speaker
Because that all you only need to know, like, is this a good deal or bad? Are they making the money or are they not? So like they as long as that's communicated, I don't need to understand like the nuances of like ah stock stuff. I was I feel like the first time I watch a little.
01:13:52
Speaker
Like I had to like think about for a second, like what the thing that Jim was doing with the stock fraud where i was like, right. Oh, so how is he like inventing more money to pay these guys? It's like, oh, okay.
Insider Trading and Actor Salaries
01:14:05
Speaker
If you backdate the thing for like what it's going to be worth that that's, it's like, yeah, of course that's fucking it illegal. He's playing the system.
01:14:13
Speaker
no he was He was doing a level of insider trading, obviously. Yeah. And, you know, if we're talking about other actors that we appreciate from this film who are like from this whole hiring spree, so Sung Won Cho. I was just thinking of him. Yeah, I was just thinking of him. Yeah.
01:14:29
Speaker
Like, he had that, like, YouTube channel that he, like, I don't know if he still does it, but I remember when this movie came out, right? Like, it was like, oh, my God, they got this guy for this movie? Yeah. And he's good at it. Like, he has one of the funnest moments. He was fun, yeah. The moment where him and Rich Summer from Mad Men, where he, like, they're both alone in the diner, and he's like, how much are you getting paid? And he's like, I really shouldn't say. Like, they're paying me $10 million. Like, yeah, me too. Without missing a beat.
01:15:00
Speaker
Which is just absurd for one person. You're paying $10 million. Because, they're like like, yeah, they have the outage. they are this is This is before the outage that they've hired these people. That's when they're trying to avoid being bought out by Carrie ah Ellis. and ah Yeah. Mike is like, we don't have the best. We have the best coders in Toronto. you know like In Canada. In Canada. thought you had the best coders in the world. In Canada.
01:15:26
Speaker
Yeah. And so he's like, who well who could do this? And then he's like listing like, you know, a dream, the you know, like... Yeah, all the top tech companies. Microsoft. and what What I love about that moment is that in my mind, I feel as though ah like Mike had told him we have the best coders in Toronto. And that I got the impression that Glenn Howerton just in his mind thought that that was the world, Canada. You know, like he he just... His scope of the world is such a tunnel, right? That like he doesn't see the periphery. That's his ultimate undoing. And in all of these, you know, deals that he's making with all of these people that he wants to hire, ah it doesn't even feel like he's making them out of rational things. he He wants to like say fuck you in those meetings. He just wants to be like, we're fucking Blackberry. I'm the Blackberry guy, you know, and and she's his way to the top. Because Doug and Mike point out of like, isn't this good that we get bought out? Like, because like you're seeing it, know, Jim seeing it as an attack and that they need to defend from. But it's like a lot of companies, that's like the best you can hope for is like you start small and you get big enough that someone wants to buy you and then you all get rich. Oh, boy. Yeah, he is great. Maybe. so So Don Cherry is important in Canadian lore because he used to host Hockey Night in Canada. He was like the face. And he was known for, you know, being this like old guy who wore colorful
Canadian Culture and Tech Evolution
01:16:50
Speaker
suits. And he was like always yelling in the same way that Michael Ironside does in this movie. He oh, you know, we're great great team, you know? And and ah the thing about Don Cherry is that he's very conservative and very racist. And like, you know, he got fired in disgrace from his thing. And his archetype is seen as like from the past, like very, you know...
01:17:12
Speaker
Almost like people don't want to remember him almost. Antiquated is a great word. and And as I said before, he's on screen in this film. Like ah Glenn Howerton is watching him at one point.
01:17:24
Speaker
And I think that that invocation of Don Cherry in Michael Ironside's performance is very on purpose. Like it's very, you know a part of what they're trying to accomplish here. Right, because the way that Songwon Cho, his character, is, like like, actively terrified of this guy. Like, you don't you don't see Ironside, like, saying, like, like ah racist stuff at him, but you get the vibe that this guy's, like, won a few HR reprimands away from, like, being fired. Yeah.
01:17:53
Speaker
That's a guy so scary that like HR is worried to talk to him. Yeah. Like that's ah that's that's scary that in Michael Ironside. Which is why Jim loves him because he's like, who is that guy? And it's why Mike loves him, too. Like, you know, the fact that he can hide behind this scary guy.
01:18:08
Speaker
hmm. Which is, that's a great scene too, because when Doug comes back, listening to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle soundtrack. Oh yeah. He's like dapping up the the security guard, like it's movie night, they're all psyched. And then it's it's almost like some kind of Twilight Zone, Bizarro World thing you're coming back to. It's like the office is like, you know, in worker B mode and you just like, it's supposed to be movie night, you know, and, uh, There's that great exchange with ah with Mike.
01:18:35
Speaker
Mike can't even like look at Doug and say, that's like no, it's me that you know had Ironside like you know cracked the whip on on everyone. You're assuming like Jim did it. But yeah he's like, we do we do need to get back to work. and And Doug's like, do you know why everyone's like willing to like put all these hours in and not see their family? in And like Mike is so or yeah, Mike's so cocky that he's just like because they get to work on the greatest phone in the market. Like and he fully believes that that this is like this will and that this will always be true that they're at the cutting edge. that that That speaks to something that like a lot of tech people and and even just normal business people, you got to say, right? Like this obsession with Steve Jobs, the figure, right? That everybody needs to become Steve Jobs at some point, right? And he like, it might go so far as to have the white hair, right? Like, I like how artificial his hair looks throughout the yeah film. Yeah. I think that's actually a street. does look like a put on.
01:19:31
Speaker
And even like in the early scenes, like it looks like a wig on Jay Marichal's head. And I like that almost. And what you see is that there's this metamorphosis that he has into like buying his own bullshit. Whereas Steve Jobs, like love him or hate him, what he was doing was always trying to like push to a different way. Obviously, he was doing it in exploitative ways. That's a whole other conversation. Uh, but, uh, when it comes to what Steve jobs was doing is he was always pushing forward. And similar to what, uh, we saw from the beginning of this film, uh, Mike is always trying to fit a need that already exists. So he can never truly be a Steve jobs to think forward, to think about what the market might want. Yeah, he's too stuck on his own, like stagnant vision.
01:20:18
Speaker
And when we get that whole... Phone with keyboard. it's it's It's not even that, Jared, right? It's like when this idea that like a touchscreen needs to come and become a thing, right? In his ah mind, he thinks the keyboard is the thing that set BlackBerry apart. But he's thinking literally of like a computer plus phone. So like computers aren't using touch screens at this time. You know, like we don't have like iPads and stuff, you know. So ease he's just being literally like you a keyboard is part of a computer. So if this phone's a computer, it needs a keyboard.
01:20:52
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. um Yeah. and And I guess this is where like the China stuff comes in. We got we got talk about China. Yeah. Yeah.
01:21:03
Speaker
before Before they got good. Before the before they went themselves into shape. Yeah, we we saw what happened to Xinjiang, you know, like they they they got their act together, you know. ah But ah so so Doug and I were talking about this actually before we got on Mike, Jared. So and so like do you do you get like that there's like an actual like anti-China sentiment in this film?
01:21:28
Speaker
ah I don't know if it's like specifically China. I guess I always just took that whole thing as just a ah sure shorthand for lazy, like, you know, cheap and fast.
01:21:43
Speaker
Yeah, like the gone going the the easy route. But I guess I wasn't like taking it as like a statement against China. Maybe more as like a depiction of where they were at in that moment in time. What China represents more is what it represents to Mike, like as an existential threat.
01:22:03
Speaker
I think you're right about that, Jared. I think that like it is like a stand in in terms of like the lack of care and consideration with quality, because like like I was saying this to Doug before he hopped on, like iPhones making their stuff in China. Right. Nobody's complaining about their iPhones in any kind of crazy way anymore. Right. They're not like bending the way they used to. Right. We're fine. So we're we're in a position where that idea is antiquated. The issue here is quality assurance. The the the problem here is there's no strong vision.
01:22:33
Speaker
And we're seeing that while Mike is gaining this ego, he's losing his focus. And this this whole like China offloading thing is more of an extension of because he just doesn't care anymore. Good enough has become enough for him.
01:22:47
Speaker
oh no They just have to beat, because at that point, they're just like, can we beat iPhone to market with the new thing? And they they need the ah rush production. there's There's no other option to do that. I mean, I do think like tech in itself itself is inherently, you know, like how we said, this movie is very masculine. The tech's very misogynistic. It's a boys club. But I feel like there is a nationalism like to it, too, of like, Even if if it's not specific just to like Canada or, you know, for America, American companies, it's like kind of like a Western Eastern thing of like, we need to be dominating this. we They have their production in tech has to be inferior because ours is better. You know, like like that kind of thing. It's like we define it that way.
01:23:32
Speaker
There's also an in there's an individualist element to tech as well, right? like Like the Steve Jobs, the Mark Zuckerbergs, the Sam Altmans, you name it, right? There always has to be like one person at the front of it all.
01:23:45
Speaker
and And you can feel that Mike is trying to put himself in that position because he thinks that's what you're supposed to do. But the reality is that he shares a lot more in common with Doug and that scares him, right? like and And that's why when their friendship ah devolves the way that it does, it doesn't feel...
01:24:02
Speaker
Like, like it's, it's tragic and it's terrible, but it's also like one of those things where it's like, this feels like he's rejecting the call almost. He's, he sees what his perfect outcome would be and says, no, I'm going to reject that to go down with the ship. ah Yeah. And she's like, you're the CEO. And he's like, oh, you don't want the responsibility that. Yeah.
01:24:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny when Doug gets the call that they're just, everyone's just like, i think you should talk to Jim about that. Like, this sounds serious. Like, we don't do that. like ah like It's like you're the kid in the house getting an important call. The parents are gone or something. I'm sorry. You got to speak to my mom about that. Yeah, I don't pay the power bill. I'm sorry. Yeah.
01:24:46
Speaker
And I like, too, that, like, the way that the film was told as well, like, when when they when the s when they come in, like, at that point, even as an audience member, I go, like, I do believe that Jay Baruchel didn't really care about that film. Oh, yeah. Like, I totally buy that has no idea what's going on. Yeah. Yeah.
01:25:04
Speaker
so So it's one of those situations when he does rat out Glenn Howerton, you know, like when that that yeah transition happens. i'm like I'm like, i i buy that, that they would get off scot-free with this like plea bargain they're almost doing, you know, where they're like, oh, you know, you you get this guy and we're off, you
Film Critiques and Unique Filmmaking Efforts
01:25:20
Speaker
know. um and And actually, this is a great way for us to segue into this unraveling period that's happening with Glenn Howerton as he's like trying to do all these different meetings at once. i love that he's like. By the penguins. who bind the penguins.
01:25:35
Speaker
And the Hamilton Center, by the way, like like a real stadium, by the way, in Hamilton that, you know. a stadium that does other events besides hockey.
01:25:46
Speaker
Usually concerts, I would say. like Like I've gone to concerts there. I wouldn't say like that's ah a place. and And by the way, I should point out that like while a lot of the stuff in Trap was shot in exteriors in Toronto, a lot of Trap was shot interior wise in that stadium.
01:26:03
Speaker
Oh, so he was in the trap stadium. yeah Exactly. The private suite he was doing, he was watching Lady Raven that night. You should look out for the butcher. Yeah, exactly. Might be on the loose. He'll get you. He's still using a blackberry. Yeah. He used the storm. It drove him nuts.
01:26:23
Speaker
ah great We should do a trap up. Yeah. Hey, should. I'm hearing it's fun The one he did with the notebook author, right?
01:26:36
Speaker
Yeah. it's it's ah It's a little supernatural movie. It's a little supernatural romance with Jake Gyllenhaal. Gyllenhaal, yeah. Yeah. Who's he acting against?
01:26:47
Speaker
Do you know that? Yeah. um I think it's What's-Her-Face from one of the mother shows. Yeah. One of those tv shows that exist.
01:27:01
Speaker
Yeah. I'm sounding like Tim Heidecker right now. think Craig's just like just hanging all the way back. but Yeah, so she's the female lead. Yeah, I don't watch TV too. I may or may not have a buddy. I may or may have seen an early cut of that movie. May or may not have told me a bit about that movie.
01:27:20
Speaker
So I'm excited. i'm excited. May or may not. Did they say it was good? He may or may not have said that it may or may not have been really fun. I don't know. I'm not sure. It or may not have been like that. I think i don't know. Movies with his born. I think that like the one-two punch of the happening in Last Year, Bender, that woke him up. You know, like like after Earth. So I think it was a one it was more of like a one-two-three punch because Lady in the Water was also like a, you know, put him in hot water with people.
01:27:48
Speaker
but i know people like that movie. and It's a fun, yeah, but... oh he still loves it he never like it's never when he okay all right okay i guess from the outside it always seemed like lady in the water is like the first sort of like uh you know knock at the arm or whatever right yeah i agree with you i think that movie sucks right at the same time uh that's a situation i i i have fun watching that movie hey paul giamatti's in it right and like i There's so many crazy terms in that film. How do you not enjoy watching a movie with narfs? Yeah, just the earnestly dorky world building. Yeah, it's just so silly. I can't help but enjoy it to some degree.
01:28:34
Speaker
But there is a universe where the if like if the last Airbender had been a success where he just gets slotted into being like one of those blockbusters. well then he did After Earth. Oh, I forgot forgot lot about it. yeah I saw that movie three times in theaters. Why? knew that that movie was hilarious. Oh, yeah, because it was a great time. yeah Yeah, it's a really funny bad movie in my eyes. James Smith acting as Asloff in that movie is so funny to me. But it said the whole whole idea of the movie is it takes place like hundreds of years in the future and where humanity has somehow evolved to have one of the most like imperceptible accents. It's like a mixture of like so many different dialects that that that doesn't really work and just strains everybody's performing. Right. It's just like everybody's performance. It's just like it's it's really... yeah
01:29:25
Speaker
It was a really like wild decision. i commend them for trying. you know Totally like high effort, I guess, to to do a fake, unheard of accent like that, but it was a bit Well, like Joaquin Phoenix says in signs, it's like it felt wrong not to swing. You know, he he miss he missed all he he was He was a bad batter average wise, but he had the swing. He had the swing. I thought it was bold because like obviously Will Smith made that movie because he wanted to like put Jaden Smith up in the front be like, hey, look at this. actor. Yeah. Yeah. But, but I just love that you've had Will Smith acting his ass off, but he's in a chair the entire time. Yeah. So, so it feels almost like an Orson Welles commercial in a way where it's just like he, he's, he's phoning it in. It's like an early, it's like a proto zoom performance. Yeah, it's it's a real ice cube i will use the best war of the world. of the world.
01:30:19
Speaker
Well, because there's also like the whole Dianetics thing of like they're intentionally suppressing emotions. Yeah. That's like the other angle to that movie I have not, I've always wanted to look into, but I've never done it. Scientology angle. And in his book, he straight up because around the time he said like, oh, yeah, me and Jada like went to a meet like we checked it out. But it was.
01:30:41
Speaker
But in his book, he straight up i says like of all the religions that I like when I was like looking for meaning and stuff like Scientology was the one that like resonated with me the most like pretty much saying like, yeah, I'm a Scientologist.
01:30:53
Speaker
this one you know right i feel like that's still up for debate uh but at the same time i like you know i don't know there's so many people who are open with that stuff i wouldn't be so surprised like jason lee is still a scient well scientologist well scientologists don't like therapy apparently might be a s scientistologist yes he's true I feel like we would know if he wasn't because, ah you know, Will Smith kind of, you know, not cite, uh, armchair, uh, psychoanalyze them. Like he could probably do with some therapy sessions or something, but inside, uh, he could He could have killed Jay. He could have killed Jay. That's right. One of the best bits of that movie. Yeah. Uh,
01:31:33
Speaker
ah But like to to get back onto BlackBerry, because I feel like we're almost done, you know, like ah this this idea that like ah the undoing, the unraveling of the company, that final image of the warehouse full of all of those warning things. Yeah. Like, that might be one of the best sequences that Matt Johnson has ever directed. You know, like, we could run through the list, you know, like, the Smashing Pumpkins and the miniseries, what have you. But, like, I feel like that sequence is like, yeah, this is a real-ass filmmaker. This is like a filmmaker who understood the kind of movie he made, and this is, like, the full, complete arc to this character that was necessary for this. It made it well worth the ride. is Yeah, also the fact that... Yeah. why I think Jay's great in that scene. That's why I think it's a good performance, because it's sells those moments. Yeah, that's like yeah know why i feel like, yeah, agree with that. Why I feel like his performance was satisfying of what he was required of him, I felt like
01:32:30
Speaker
If Sean William Scott was in this, would that help? Doug, I think you're right. You know, if Sean William Scott was in this movie. Oh, have you guys seen Dolly? no Is that the one where he goes serious? Is like that the action slash it's a horror movie? It's a
Sean William Scott's New Film and Screenings
01:32:46
Speaker
horror movie. I just caught it. it's a Yeah, it's like a horror sort of like a slasher horror movie.
01:32:52
Speaker
Not a very small cast, um but he's in it. ah It's him and some woman. I forget the actress, ah but it's like they're a couple and they're about to maybe become fiancés.
01:33:10
Speaker
And he chooses like the worst spot to do the proposal because it just so happens that they're right next to and Dolly, who is a ah horrifying killer with a doll mask, on like a porcelain doll mask as for a head. He looks kind of leather face-y. Yeah, it's a little ah ah little leather face-y.
01:33:35
Speaker
ah But Sean William Scott undergoes a pretty horrendous injury. In the movie, and it's it's actually really well done.
01:33:47
Speaker
i And there's some pretty good gore. some pretty It's shot entirely in 16mm. It has a nice kind of aesthetic as a result. ah It's short. It's like 80 minutes as well.
01:34:03
Speaker
goes by pretty quickly. what What year did this movie come out? just came out this year. It's in theaters. Oh, excellent. Yeah, I just caught it in theaters like a couple weeks ago. Maybe a week ago. and And just to correct the record, i was thinking about the 2018 movie Bloodline.
01:34:18
Speaker
Oh, it's not this movie. ah But yeah, i never heard of that one. He's he's tried to do some interesting stuff in the 2010s and on. and and And I will still go to bat for Goon. Have you guys seen Goon?
01:34:29
Speaker
I have. Yeah, I like that one. Yeah, i so i still have I never saw the sequel. I missed the sequel, but I did see the first one when I was a kid. The sequel is not worth watching. I would say just don't do it. And Doug, like, will say put it in the books. You know, we got to do a Goon episode. Okay. We'll look at Goonin'.
01:34:48
Speaker
Literally, like, what was it? Last month, I went and watched Goon on the big screen. My friend Vanya, she does programming at the Revue Cinema, the best cinema in Toronto, right? She did a programming for Goon, and Jay Baruchel recorded a little intro for the screening. Like, Jay Baruchel had heard that the screening was happening, was so thankful and, and, and Jay Baruchel like co-wrote Goon and co-stars obviously very close film for him. And he was like, uh, wanted to express his thoughts on it. It was really nice. You know, she, she literally played the message before the movie and people from Goon were in attendance as well. I had to throw that in. That's great. That's such an unfortunate word.
01:35:29
Speaker
Goon, right? Yeah. i feel Yeah, but you Don John is such an antiquated goon. I got my girls. I got my, at what is it? I got my my boy my boys, but my body, my pad, my pad, my body, my ride, my boys, my church, my family, ah my girls, and my board.
01:35:55
Speaker
I think I just did it. I think, I think, yeah i think that's it one zo but but so it feels like so antiquate. Like from what I remember, he's just going on like Pornhub and Googling like boobs. you like He's not even yeah deep yeah that perverted.
01:36:09
Speaker
Yeah. He's, he's front page kind of guy. like He loads up porn. He's like, what's, what's trending? Yeah. yeah what's the top hit Yeah. What are the, what are the people talking about? Yeah.
01:36:21
Speaker
He's like, I'm not interested in any of that stuff where the people don't, just secretly don't care. They just, you know, no one cares and they just, you know, wanting you to be like, care about it.
01:36:32
Speaker
Trying to do the Timothy Chalamet ballet thing. ah ah So who's going to play the Steven Spielberg here and and condemn it, you
Award Shows and Controversial Films
01:36:42
Speaker
know? like yeah Condemn and and stick up for that, that, that the indie, that the, the, the lesser known pornos out there, the deep cuts. Yeah. no one no and one search for This will be posted after the Oscars, but if Timmy wins, oh god do you, do you think that ah everyone who could ah does ballet and opera will be sent to jail? Like if he wins? Yeah. It depends on how they react. Depends on how... on what happens after.
01:37:15
Speaker
and We have seized all of the ballerinas. Someone will have... Kind of like how ah when Sashi Littlefair accepted ah an Oscar for Brando that they had to hold John Wayne back. They'll be like an opera person like in the audience. Yeah.
01:37:33
Speaker
yeah Oh, my God. wait No, no, it's like he it's like ah ah they do something different. right It's like he he ah he doesn't show up to accept, he doesn't attend, but instead he gets he gets both a ballerina and an opera singer to accept the award for him.
01:37:50
Speaker
That'd be baller. I think that every actor should do one thing in solidarity. I think that every person who wins should ah have Zelensky except for...
01:38:04
Speaker
Vladimir Zelensky just comes in. He's like, thank you. 60, 70% chance that he accepts Sean Penn's eye. I really hope. I mean, they did do like a video message one year. Yep. Where he like, can't you like do a little like, thank you for supporting Ukraine. Aren't you supposed to be fighting a war right You got time to tune into the house. Yeah. I remember that year for the Oscars, it was supposed to be something much bigger than that as well. Like every week leading up to the Oscars, there was another thing where they were like, we pared it down a bit, we pared it down a bit. And I remember earlier it was much bigger. And my own joke there is just more so from Sean Penn. I feel like there's a hominess that's going on there. But I like because of Sean Penn's year, it's also Zelensky's year. Yeah, it would actually be really funny if he just gets Zelensky to do the acceptance. Yeah. It doesn't show up, but then, yeah, yeah.
01:39:01
Speaker
but But then also, like, if if Sean Penn wins instead of Benicio, I lose my mind. i I unfortunately think it's going to happen. I don't know. It kind of feels like the wins, but i I would give it to Benicio. He's the better actor. If I had like a better performance. I like Benicio more as a person, probably. Like, if if like like I feel like He seems like a chiller dude than like Sean Sean Penn.
01:39:29
Speaker
But like it's hard for me to compare the two performances because I love both of them. Right. just feels to me like. They serve different purposes. Yeah, they serve different purposes. But for Benicio, it's like for me, it was more because he's never done anything like that. And not that Sean Penn's done long job. Yeah, I guess so. I can kind of just picture. Yeah, you're right though. Because Benicio Del Torero usually playing like very intense characters. And this guy was very laid back and chill. Ocean waves. and he killed it. Like, it just seemed, like, so natural for him to be that way.
01:39:59
Speaker
let's Let's play politics for a second, right? Sure. Like, how many Oscars does Sean Penn have? What, two? He already has a couple, right? Yeah. Something like that. Benicio Del Toro has never been nominated for an Oscar, or this is... No, he's been nominated for an Oscar, but he's never won one, right? What was the other time nominated? Like, Traffic or something? no Probably, yeah. Yeah, the good Traffic, not the bad Traffic. um And... traffic Well, hey, everyone's experienced bad traffic. well be caught in traffic i fucking zs ah I'm talking about ah what's it called? the The Paul Haggis film. Was it Paul Haggis? Right. No, you're thinking of tra of crash.
01:40:36
Speaker
Crash. That's what it is. Yeah, there's a good crash and a bad crash. Yeah, there's a crash where Sandra Bullock falls down the stairs because she was racist. and Exactly. Yeah. Brendan Fraser is there, by the way. Everybody always talks about everybody else in that movie, but Brendan Fraser is also there. she use it Also Michael Penn.
01:40:55
Speaker
ah Yeah. yeah A lot of people were in the scene of crime. Ludacris is at the scene of the crime in that movie. All right. I'm going to set the record for you guys because I'm doing a little research.
01:41:06
Speaker
Please Benicio Del Toro. won the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for Traffic. So he's an Oscar winner. know that he won I didn't know that he won. I thought that he had never won before. And then he got nominated for Best Supporting Actor for 21 Grams two years later.
01:41:23
Speaker
Okay. Good. Or two or three years later. but But yeah, so this is his third time being nominated. And then we also have the whole like Stellan Skarsgård has never even been nominated before. That's crazy. Yeah, and he's a fantastic actor. You would think he would have had some nominations before this. Even Breaking the Waves, right? Because didn't Watson get nominated for that film?
01:41:47
Speaker
like that Like, that's in a fantastic movie, by the way. like ah you guys That's one of those I haven't worked up the courage for yet, but I know about it. i yeah I'll get there. I'll get there. what what What I will say on that note, right, because, like, I i know the hesitation because Lars von Trier, right? Lars von Trier, puts... Well, it's also because I just know what it's about. Like, I know it's, like, a romance and one of gets paralyzed or something and and just goes... it's It's more than that. It's more than that.
01:42:10
Speaker
But it's like ah yeah it's like a degenerative disease or something, right? That's affecting one of them? It's more about what the woman is going through in terms of like what she is, like, A, how she wants to like keep that relationship alive and then also try to find her own happiness. And yeah there's certainly ah ah like the thing that's present obviously within all Lars von Trier films is like a blatant misogyny. But one thing that's... ah yeah it's for less It's less than that. It's less than that. okay Like I would say like of of the bleakness that it could have been, it's less bleak than that. Like there's title cards with like Elton John songs in between. like it is It is fairly chipper in certain aspects. And Eero Kier is in it playing Sadistic Sailor.
01:42:57
Speaker
There's a lot of fucked up shit in the movie. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's a happy movie, but at the same time, compared to, you know, the, the, the depths that he's done, I would say that it's definitely on the tamer end of all. I guess what I should say too, is I'm, um I've seen like a handful of his work, but not like everything. I'm very behind on one chair. So like, I've only seen, I've seen, ah the first few seasons of that hospital show he did. I want to watch Kingdom. Yeah, Kingdom. yeah Then I watched... and I got to watch the third season. I never did. I got to watch it. um But then I saw Dancer in Dark.
01:43:33
Speaker
Third season of the Kingdom is very much so his return. Like the Twin Peaks return. Yeah. yeah but but makes me really curious. I love the return. I got to see Kingdom season three. But anyway, um so Dancer in Dark, I've seen that. I've seen Antichrist.
01:43:51
Speaker
And then, how's that Jackville? Everything else, i'm i'm i I haven't seen yet. I got a lot of blind spots. yeah because like yeah I haven't even seen ah dogville Dogville, right? Oh, Dogville. one I haven't seen that either. yeah that That's a rough watch. It seems really interesting because of the way that you know it's all in that white void. I like that conceptually. it's just yeah songs where i just I just know it's going to be rough.
01:44:22
Speaker
Well, if you think that that's rough, do you guys know but what Manderley is? No. Manderley? so so So I'm just like just to jump ahead a bit because like like I can see Douglas like so so Google searching. ah Dogville, right? Like they did the whole like stage play. Like, you know, they don't have the set dressing there. It's just like kind of like the yeah outlines. He did that same approach. But Manderley is his take on like...
01:44:48
Speaker
the American South and like racism within like African American communities. And I'm like, of all of the people that you would want to talk about those things, I think Waters of Ontario is like on the bottom of that list.
01:45:00
Speaker
story Yeah, I'm seeing it now. It's in a black void. And...
01:45:07
Speaker
but i'm I do legit really like Melancholia. Like, that's probably the my favorite. Yeah, I want to see that. That was another one that like I was like, I got to work my way to that one because I'm just going to get, like, you know, torn apart.
01:45:19
Speaker
but Look, but ah so so Spike Lee was invoked earlier. I've seen all Spike Lee's movies. I did that when I was a bit younger, you know. gotta do that. I watched all of ah Lars von Trier's movies also when I was younger. You know, like I was almost like an edgelord page for me. I wish i was like that. With a Greg Araki, you know. I also, like, you know, like there's a lot of these kinds of filmmakers. Yeah, also a filmmaker I'm behind on. I've only seen ah Smiley Face and move The Doom Generation. movie.
01:45:48
Speaker
Both of which I enjoyed. um i just, I need to get to his other stuff. I haven't seen any Araki. I'm, I'm, I'm really behind. Doug, you would love Smiley Face.
01:45:59
Speaker
You will. Yeah. It's a funny movie. It's, it's one of the ultimate stoner movies as a stoner myself. Hell Like, you know. Yeah. it Like on that note, Jared, right? Because like how many stoner movies are just like, like are kind of like half baked, right? Where it's like weed culture, man. Yeah. And i haven't even seen half baked. Like there, ah there's a level of that stuff that I have. I've seen like Pineapple Express. That's a fun one.
01:46:24
Speaker
I haven't seen any of the Cheech and Chong movies. I'm behind on them completely. That's more of like your classic, like kind of like comedy bit kind of thing. Almost reminiscent to it, like where Nirvana, the but band, the show is now versus like yeah three. Oh yeah. Also, I've never seen the Harold and Kumar movies either. i' good i those Those were good. Oh, I never saw the third one, but one, two were good. Third one's kind of okay. Third one's like, it's a Christmas movie. So it's like there's a baseline. At least they're trying to do something there.
01:46:53
Speaker
um But, but what I was getting at, cause like a lot of the stoner movies, right? Like they're, they're always about like, Oh, how can we make weed look cool and rad to sell you on smiley face, Doug? Like it's almost like a movie where it's like, it welcomes you in with weed. And then it's like, ah, this is how your life gets fucked up by weed. Almost got yeah like, uh,
01:47:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's a really good, like, rug pull. And but it's and you're looking at the cast list, Doug. ah John Krasinski is surprisingly amazing in that movie. Brian Pussain, Jim Brash. This is this is a good cast.
01:47:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really good movie. It's like, and it's a very... ah It's almost like an anthology. um Anyways, BlackBerry. ah Yes. I guess. should Should we round out our thoughts on BlackBerry? like and back Sometimes I want to rap like that. Sometimes I get a hump on my back. Sometimes I'm going over here. Sometimes I get one on my back. Sometimes. These guys got shoes hosted by Doug and Jared, who's joined by Tony. Hey, glad to be back, guys. Thank you so much.
01:48:00
Speaker
ah Okay, so, yeah, let's let's finish up ah BlackBerry. Yeah. ah We were talking about like kind of like, you know, the nosedive towards the end where yeah jims Jim's flailing, the SEC is closing in. But that final scene between Jim and Mike, I feel like that is a great... Like if I was either of those actors, Jay Burechel or Glenn Howerton, I'd say both both of them could put that moment in in their reel. Because like it's mostly... ah There is some words exchanged, but it's like the micro expressions on their face because this is like the real the friendship with Doug is ended. But this is like the final like betrayal because it they're not like buddies like
Key Scenes and Film Techniques in Blackberry
01:48:46
Speaker
hanging out. But there is a, you know, like I said, it's kind of like aspirational. He wanted to be.
01:48:51
Speaker
like Jim. So the fact that he has to turn him over, see the regret in Mike's eyes, but just Jim processing it because he shows up excited. Like you said, Jared, like he's excited and invested in the company by the end. He's like, I figured out what they're doing with AT&T and Apple are doing. Like they're building a data guzzling machine because they're selling data. They're not selling minutes. Yeah. He's so excited and then it's too late. Yeah. He's already been fucking with his tech with the stocks.
01:49:24
Speaker
Yeah. and And just him processing like that ah Mike's made a deal that that he like because he he's so amped about about about the data thing. And then that he's just like the slowdown of him like processing it and then him like preparing himself before he goes into the next room like he has to swallow his pride. It's like it's so good. Yeah. Yeah.
01:49:45
Speaker
it It goes back to this whole thing about them like understanding the ecosystem in which they were brought up in and then being completely blindsided by the new world that's coming, right? The fact that like they could they could come up with something like BBM, yeah right? like ah Do you guys remember when BlackBerry Messenger was like the whole hit thing? like i was too young, but but yeah.
01:50:06
Speaker
when when When that happened, right, ah like there was a ah section of iPhone users who would download BBM because like there was this whole idea that the encryption was so worth it in that sense. And iMessage is totally appropriate.
01:50:19
Speaker
So it's very interesting to see how, ah you know, even within that transitionary period that there is this like whole misunderstanding and actually going back to something that you guys were bringing up before this idea of like how it manages the techno babble and stuff I feel like a lot of the things that are said and that we see with the actors is just about their personal internal struggles and then whenever there's like a moment where it's like oh the network's crashing we're just seeing like graphs and numbers you know like we're just it's like oh when it's red it's bad
01:50:52
Speaker
you know like It's very like simple you know shorthand in that sense. it's like the All the Technobabble stuff is kept off to the side and all of the dramatic stuff is heightened. What I will say is that ah Obviously, we brought up the social network earlier. um i do think that while this film is an excellent parable for what Canadian businesses go through, as well as like just a failure company that was kind of an in-between period, I do feel like ah the social network does get the edge because it almost feels like a Shakespearean tragedy. And this film almost needs a bit more of that sincere, like, dread that more irony more like it needs to almost be a bit more like fictional it doesn't feel as arch or as fictitious as it could have been and i feel like that's also some a piece of the film that i'm kind of missing that could have made this on the same level almost like you guys get what i'm putting down i i get what you're saying like yeah
01:51:55
Speaker
I guess it's like a lower key because it's more low key than like Social Network. it Social Network is like a prestige movie, like very like... high budget, high production value, like, every shot is, like, perfectly, you know, precise. And this is a lot looser where half the cast is, like, improv-ing and and it's shot, like, it it's supposed to look like it was shot on the fly. Like, you know, that maybe also kind of lends itself to it not feeling like as epic or as, like,
01:52:27
Speaker
I like how low key it is because it's like, ah you know, Mike and Jim. Yeah, which I like it too. They're not like Zuckerberg and Andrew. Yeah. i Like this is just also, that you know, Blackberry is no Facebook.
01:52:41
Speaker
Right. In terms of like the significance of the product. Like Facebook actually did end the world. Like Blackburn is yeah like for like ah the canary in the coal mine. But Facebook was like actually like the bullet to the head.
01:52:55
Speaker
but but But my argument would be almost that like because it wasn't that, because it was the canary in the coal coal mine, I do believe that it would have made more sense to make this the more dire film, to make this feel a bit more weighty because something like ah the social network, it, it, it it almost transcends into the Shakespearean tragedy. Right. And I feel like with just a few small, subtle adjustments, this film could have reached that du like art maybe it as well. Yeah. And, and, and I, and I do feel as though ah because it doesn't reach that level, it almost, so the film suffers as well. And, and like, that like everything you guys are saying that like, because it's not that thing, like it makes sense. But I do also think that the film is already so close to that level. I wish that it did.
01:53:42
Speaker
You know, I get what you're saying because I mean, some of it, don't know what was cut out for that three hour version. That 15 minutes, those 15 minutes could be epic. You don't know. You're right. You're right. I'm speaking as somebody who's not an expert, so I should shut my mouth accordingly. Actually, no, I did look it up. Apparently, the extra stuff is like extra scenes of him trying to buy the ah Pittsburgh Pegman. That's incredible. That's what they got.
01:54:11
Speaker
I call that necessary. I say that's necessary. And and I love that when he and everything's falling. Oh, we didn't even talk about Waterloo. So we we got to do that. God. Yeah, the Waterloo bit. ah so So like ah a like I love that when he's backed into a corner, he threatens that he's just going to buy the NHL. like I'm going to buy the whole league, you know, like how is that work. like because Because we already know that like the way he made it to the point that he was was that he like called his shot, then he did it. But like, yeah, cheated and lied a lot to get to where he he was. And that's the way the world is, obviously, in one way or another. But anyways, so so like we all know that the whole Waterloo thing was a recreation of the viral video, right?
01:54:55
Speaker
I'm afraid of the boogeyman. Who's the boogeyman? You figure it out. I'm getting out of here. I'm going back to Waterloo where the vampires hang out. And I'm going to wear my sunglasses at night. You know why? Because women show their tits, have short skirts, and then they feel violated when I look at them.
01:55:15
Speaker
Why? Because I have sunglasses on and I'm weird. Yeah, I didn't know that at the time, but then I found that out. Yeah. Doug? Yeah. Same. The first time I saw it, i i always say I was like, did this guy really say shit like that? Right. Or after watching Marty Supreme when people were like, is he really a vampire? at this well what What I love about the way Glenn Howerton says that line, when he says Waterloo, he's saying that with a really hard Ontario accent. Like he says, Waterloo, you know, like he he does that. And ah I one thing I guess I will say about Glenn Howerton's performance is that he's not really hitting that same Ontario dialect throughout this whole film. um But what I will say is that during this speech, like this is the most Ontario coded, like freak out I've ever seen. This is like, like imagine like, ah you know, how like Bostonians act out front of bars. This yeah the Ontario equivalent of that. Yeah. It's like, well, it's like, it's like maybe he's grown up trying to hide the, the Ontario accent. And then when it gets really mad, it just comes back out.
01:56:24
Speaker
Exactly. Yes. And, and and i And I just love that video's reference. I hope that like in the Anthony Bourdain movie, there's a sequence where like somebody asks why the Eaton Center is closed. If you guys have ever seen that video. No.
01:56:39
Speaker
I'd highly recommend watching that one. It's just like a guy who's just like, go ahead. Or he recreates the guy that graduated end of the year. Okay, maybe it doesn't have anything to do with Anthony Bourdain, but that video, that the little guy yelling at the dude playing the trumpet or whatever, and he's like, I graduated from NYU. I graduated NYU film school. Sucka. I have a master's degree. Yeah, sucka. I mean, I could see Matt Johnson putting that in so something that has nothing to do. Yeah, I feel like you could fit that and his into his Anthony Bourdain movie somehow. Maybe you just have Stavros do the monologue. Yeah.
01:57:19
Speaker
Oh, yeah. i was looking at the cast list, too. Antonio Banderas is in it, which is like... amazing. So random. I haven't been getting enough Banderas lately, so i'm I'm stoked on that. Well, he was really good in the one with Nicole Kidman.
01:57:33
Speaker
ah Right. Baby girl. He was the husband who wasn't good enough. Which is such a funny role for Antonio. Yeah. You're like, yeah I'm not being sexually satisfied by Antonio Bande. Yeah. I'm sorry I'm not a good enough lover. You know, like. Zorro's not doing it for you. Fuck.
01:57:56
Speaker
Speaking of thankless Anthony, I almost called him Antonio Banderas. But yeah, Antonio Banderas. Remember that Indiana Jones movie he was in? Oh, God. He shows up as Indy's friend who acts, they act like, I'm like, was he in another, was this character in another movie? Like, they're like, we're old friends. And then he just gets shot. Right? It's like, I want him to do more than just get shot.
01:58:20
Speaker
Yeah, that was a, that was a movie. it was It was a movie state that' what that they put in theaters. and people in you know it Yeah, it cost hundreds of millions of dollars. And they put it in theaters. And ah there were effects. There were sequences.
01:58:38
Speaker
There was tears. There were shootings. There were car chases. Are you talking about the making of the Twilight Zone movie? Yeah. Oh. Oh. Damn. Speaking of which, did hear Don't think we forgot Landis. I did hear he just got his script rejected. Max. Max is. Yeah. was trying to creep on back. And even Paramount, even the Nazi studio was like, don't know, man.
01:59:08
Speaker
i I just love that they're like, because that's the great thing about the anti-woke movement, right? Because they're so self-conscious, right? Like they'll just be like, yeah, we're gross and we don't give an F, right? And then like they'll do something like this and then everybody's like, we don't want that. Like, why would we want that? And then they're like, oh, never mind. You know, like it's very pathetic. Because wasn't the same time Danny McBride was developing? Yeah. Yeah. I'd much rather see his take on G.I. Jones.
01:59:37
Speaker
Who is going to hear that announcement and be like, well, you know, you'll get the, you know, great comedic and sometimes dramatic sensibilities of Danny McBride and the talents of Max Landis. but Who is who is like, I miss Max Landis's output. And now I need I guess it's the who whomever was all a simultaneous fan of Eastbound and Down as well as ah American Ultra and Chronicle.
02:00:05
Speaker
And Dirk Gently. I was going to say Dirk Gently fans represent. You're on that island, Doug. I can't go. I bet you're going down a path I cannot follow. I mean, I'm not even saying. I mean, it's basically just a Doctor Who riff, which it literally was written by Douglas Adams as like a it was like ah Doctor Who script that like got turned into a different story. So like that's why I like I wish it was written by John Adams.
02:00:32
Speaker
And because ah fucking... Wow. Blanking on her name. She's she's in the pit as Dr. McKay. ah Oh.
02:00:44
Speaker
Yeah, Fiona Dorff. Fiona Dorff is awesome yeah and yeah on that show. Yeah, she is so good on the pit. Should we... Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. We should get into the pit. Hop in the pit.
02:00:59
Speaker
Yeah. do Do we even do last thoughts on BlackBerry? I feel like we should... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, great movie. Great... I i think i watch I bumped it on Letterboxd. I had it at a 4, now i got at a 4.5 because I just think like...
02:01:14
Speaker
feel like it may have had like ah an opposite sort of takeaway than you did, Tony, where you feel like you wanted it to be like bigger, more like the social network. I feel like for me, I had liked how unassuming it was. Yeah. Like I enjoy movies that are like that, I think, that have sort of like a it seems sort of low-key or...
02:01:35
Speaker
and They're not reaching beyond their means. and Like it knows exactly. But there's still a lot in there. that There's still a lot in it. Especially that last shot. Like we said, like that's like real filmmaking. Like that, like how yeah how bold that that ending is visually. And so i I think we already have the social network. I can watch that. Yeah. So like I like that this this has, ah it feels a little different. It's at a different pitch. Yeah.
02:02:02
Speaker
But yeah I guess also, too, it's like that just like the the idea that the movie only kind of became this like Pandora's box thing. Because it's like on the surface, it's really like about the success and then failure of BlackBerry. But really, it's about like the discovery of this crazy thing called the Internet and all the crazy shit you can, you know, do with it and in ways you can get around like i bandwidth and space and mass communication being commodified in a way yeah that can't be walked back. Cause it's like, that's really the thing of the line of like, they're selling data like this. Cause that's like, that's really the point of no return because it's like now, and it's not just data that the those companies are are selling. It's, it's just your ah attention, like kind of our personal data is the product. We are the products of like, yeah. want to Yeah.
02:02:58
Speaker
to To make a case for my position just slightly, you know, like like going back to – Fine, fine, fine. But like the one thing I will say is that ah like to go back to the beginning of this conversation, this whole idea of like, oh the Canadian, you know, representation of – what these stories are.
02:03:20
Speaker
I feel like this film in form and function still meets what this thing is. And I do wish that it was more of a ballsy declarative statement since it was at this level. That's where I'm coming at this year. Declarative statement.
02:03:33
Speaker
You got it, Jared. Exactly. Thank you. Boom. But um but at the same time, ah it's a situation where ah like i I appreciate for what it is. And I'm actually in a very similar position where I was originally at like a four and I would probably bump this up to a 4.5 as well. and And it's not because ah those things that I said as negatives held it down before. i actually felt like when I first watched this the first time around, i i felt like I was missing a bit of the spontaneity and that you would find in a lot of Matt Johnson films. yeah This time I was just like accepting that. and And that's actually a similar critique I would bring to the Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, is that I feel like it doesn't have as much spontaneity as like the original series. It still has ah yeah some good amount of stuff, though.
02:04:23
Speaker
Exactly, right? I mean, the Drake's Mansion. Incredible. That's a big flex. As a piece of spontaneity right there, I think is pretty impressive. What I'm trying to get at here, is though, is that like I feel like all the spontaneity issues that I have with these films, they go away over time because I just learned to appreciate them for what they've become. you know Because they're just good. Yeah.
02:04:47
Speaker
So that's where I end up is that like, even when I feel like Matt Johnson doesn't exactly hit the nail on the head that I think that I want him to, I find that in time, I still come around to being like, yeah, but I appreciate that this is what it is.
02:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I i guess it's ah you're right, because it's like his work does get you like so amped up that like you want even more from the next one, and then and then you know it's a bit of a reeling in thing, and then and then over time you're like, oh, yeah, wait, it's still great. What am I doing? It's okay. yeah yeah Yeah. I'm so spoiled. It's like his animated show, Madden Bird Break Loose, three episodes. They're really great. I want more.
02:05:27
Speaker
come on. Yeah. Like Nirvana the Band of the Show should be like ah like a red-green show. It should be like, you know, like a corner gas where there's like a million seasons and it's just always playing on Canadian television. But it's not, you know? Right. But we haven't reached that point yet. And I feel like at one point or another, this will become like the new trailer Park Boys.
02:05:48
Speaker
Yeah, hopefully. it only gets fun yeah i really do feel like it's like they were a case of like bad timing or just like, you know, they just they chose the wrong network. and that was All of the above. you know it's How could anyone foreseen that Viceland wouldn't have staying possible? Spike Jonze was too ah too much of a draw.
02:06:09
Speaker
Right. Too busy yeah winning Oscars and then never making movies. Yeah, I think he was supposed to do a Netflix thing and that fell through. That's true. He did make that Beastie Boys documentary, though, which was pretty good. yeah, yeah. no Here's what he does narrative movie again at some point. Her too. don't know.
02:06:30
Speaker
I think it's really surprising that Charlie Kaufman's making more movies than him. we It was okay. It was, it was, it was all right. It didn't feel like a Charlie Kaufman. It only like, in the sense that it's like an anxious lead character. Like and were they anxious about death.
02:06:47
Speaker
Kinda, I think so. Okay, let's try a little bit of that. did Did you guys ever see that Doug Liman film that he co-wrote that he got his name taken off of? You guys know that? never got I never got around to that one. i Was it any good? Was it funny? Which one is is that?
02:07:02
Speaker
Chaos Walking. I forgot name of it. Chaos Walking. Oh, I never saw that. Daisy Ridley, right? It was like the whole idea is that it takes place in the future where human thought becomes visible to the naked eye, which is such a fascinating concept. and then you see the trailer for it and you're like, uh. The trailers looked like very. That's how they did it. Well, yeah, that's what it becomes. Yeah, and you get the sense that, like, Charlie Kaufman must have just gone crazy with that topic or that that idea and so points where it may have just not have been feasible to film. Who knows? Well, but the movie was also weirdly horny, so it's like you're almost like, is that where it was? Who was the male lead in that movie? Tom Holland. That Tom Holland, yes. Yeah, Tom Holland and hey Daisy Ridley.
02:07:46
Speaker
ah Tom Holland in that period, like I'm okay, like he he made that movie Cherry with the Russo brothers. That movie's hilarious. I never got around to it. It's so funny. i love I saw where the camera goes in his butt. I saw that one shot. Yeah. yeah It's a great movie. it's it's It's like a perfect exercise in like take us seriously. Ah, like we are real filmmakers. And it's just not that at all. It's, it's really funny. It was like they were doing like ah it was almost like a ah day live, like super obvious, like logo, like signs for things like, right like the, the, the, the bootcamp is in and it's like called something really obvious, right? Like the army or whatever.
02:08:29
Speaker
It's not called just like army is called. Yeah. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was almost like he was trying to do, they were trying to do like a they live thing, but it not quite... Maybe translating in the same way. Blackberry does a better they live thing. And not just because they watch they live. like But it's so like you know it's like a precursor to this is how we end up under control all is through this technology. i just like the way that Matt watches movies in the movie like it like it yeah in every movie. Every one of them. He's a movie dude. He's movie buff.
02:09:01
Speaker
And he's just going like, that's that's the Duke Nukem guy. Yeah. Yeah. Or he'll like he'll just drop a a line from a movie and then just say the name of the movie. He's like, you still did that in this. Like...
02:09:15
Speaker
Yeah, there's always a referential thing. yeah And it like it speaks to his love for film. And I think that that's why he sticks out as like not just a great Canadian voice, but just like a voice for all movies. he He's got an appropriate ah mix and balance of like you know the broad hits as well as the things that matter to him. And I'm glad that we covered him on this show because yeah he's ah he's a cool guy. i you know I've met him several times on the streets passing by. you know That's awesome. I just met him long time.
02:09:45
Speaker
It's always like, it's always like, ah not, it's never been like in depth, Jared. It's always just been like the thing he always does with me No, no, Jared. The thing he always does is like, what's your name? He always says that to me. He's like, what's your name? What's your name? And I'm like, Oh, it's me. You know, like whatever. he never remembers, you know, it just keeps on asking me what's it like, yeah I went to the meet and greet. Be like, what's the name your next movie?
02:10:06
Speaker
Yeah. I should start doing that. Right. I should start telling him like, here's my script. You know, here it is.