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Obsession (2026) w/ Kolleen Carney
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Doug & Tony sit down with returning guest Kolleen (@KolleenCarney) sit down to talk the horror sensation that is literally bigger than Star Wars. Is the One Wish Willow a monkey's paw or does Bear just suck at wishes? How much do their customer service people get paid? What if cat tastes good? They ponder some of these questions and more!
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Transcript
Introduction: Uncle Juice's Influence
00:00:01
Speaker
Uncle Juice is a good man. He's never gonna stop being the Juice. He could explain a lot, Juice. Just hear him out, Juice. He's right, Juice. Listen, Juice. Juice, Juice, this is your life.
00:00:12
Speaker
Juice, Juice, please, Juice. Juice was there for me every night. It's like he's not really the Juice anymore. I gotta get you dressed, Juice. Juice, Juice, I will.
00:00:23
Speaker
Juice, Juice, Juice. Juice. Juice! They have some juice here. They have some fucking juice.
Film Introduction: Obsession and Colleen Carney's Return
00:00:43
Speaker
<unk> These guys got juice here at Doug and Tony. And we snapped a one-wish willow for, you know, the best guest possible. And so we have Colleen Carney back.
00:00:56
Speaker
or We're talking Obsession, the a new new horror joint from Curry Barker. like to cancel your wish?
00:01:06
Speaker
No, no, no, no. It's okay to keep the... I just want to know if I can, like,
00:01:13
Speaker
Alter it a little. I'm sorry, don't really do that. No? you have any questions about how the wish works or if you read the back of the box... Is it even real?
00:01:27
Speaker
it's real. No, I know that the... Is her love real?
00:01:37
Speaker
Just because you chose this for her doesn't make it less real. No relation to Clive Barker that we know of, but maybe he's just being... sick the he took the first name from something
00:01:54
Speaker
He's a Nepo baby. He's got that curry chicken money. I knew it. ah Yeah, i I'm excited to talk about this. I mean, as I
Obsession's Premise and Twilight Zone Comparison
00:02:05
Speaker
saw this opening week the other weekend, but it's gotten even bigger since then. Like, you know, the rare feat of like where it's like built over time. So ah this is this is the right time to be doing it. But yeah thanks so thanks for coming on, Colleen.
00:02:23
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be back. um And I agree. I think the the momentum of this movie just keeps going. So we'll see what happens.
00:02:35
Speaker
I think this is going to be one to stand the test of time. So like, yeah, we'll do since it is still in theaters and it's still but like do like a little brief, like spoiler free talk. I mean, cause like, you know, just the premise itself is in the, all the the ads and stuff. So like, that's not a surprise. ah If you don't, this is pretty basic, right? Like it's not like a new premise that nobody's ever heard of before. It's the way that it's executed. that makes Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:03
Speaker
I mean, people point out there is a Twilight Zone where it's not a wish. It's like a love potion or something, right? Where he gives to... I don't really... mean, I know I've seen every Twilight Zone episode, but I need to rewatch that one specifically because was looking was like, I don't know that this one's jumping out is one I remember. You're the Twilight Zone guy, Tony. Do you remember
Ethical Themes and Monkey's Paw Scenario
00:03:24
Speaker
that one? I remember the episode. I'm in a similar boat as you. I know this episode exists. I vaguely remember it. I should have, you know, looked into it before, you know, hopping on today. But, you know, it's a situation where, you know. Go ahead, Colleen.
00:03:36
Speaker
I think it's The Chaser, which is a season one. i want say season one. Okay, look, I'm looking it up. Season one, episode 31. um yeah yeah it's called the chaser and uh let's see it is uh the roger shackleforth is desperately in love with layla and it you know uh and and he he gets the business card i forgot about this from a teacher called a demon like and it's twilight zone's so funny I know, I know. And he he buys a love potion for like a dollar and and it is. Yeah. And I mean, that's that's obsession is just your standard love potion, love spell.
00:04:20
Speaker
Inflation, the the wishing will cost six dollars now, you know, so like you you six nights. Wow. Yeah. You used to be able to get a love potion for a dollar. What happens? I'll just come out and and say it. Like, this movie is, like, you know, definitely leaks better than Love Potion number nine, you know? Definitely just, like, you know, just from an experiential across the board, you know? For for engaging this on Love Potion stories, this is definitely on the higher echelon.
00:04:47
Speaker
Because it's not really like a, like it it has a similar setup to like some kind of monkey's paw, a monkey paw scenario, but it's not really a monkey paw scenario. And Curry Barker's
Character Dynamics and Societal Reflections
00:04:59
Speaker
even said, it's like the Wishing Willow itself isn't,
00:05:02
Speaker
curse Like, if you got it and you just wished for something chill and normal, like, we've seen other people. The cool thing about how the world building works in this movie is, like, it doesn't over-explain anything, but, it like, there are people who have made wishes before our main character, Bear, and they seem, like, all right. Like, the guy at the shop seems like he's doing fine. Like, he's not tortured by piety anything. So, yeah, I don't His wish probably went ah went all right. So, it's just that what he wished...
00:05:31
Speaker
his wish was i wish i owned a store that was frequented by dweebs who ruined their lives i an employee base of just like complete backstabbers people who just cannot like have a normal relationship with one another i i will say that i left the theater and i was like the turkey's a little dry because like that simpsons episode where the like one of those original.
00:05:58
Speaker
And like Homer's like, you know, i want a turkey sandwich. I don't want it to be a zombie turkey. i don't want to turn into a turkey sandwich myself. And then he's eating it and he's like, oh the turkey's a little dry, no. But I was just like, ah like...
00:06:12
Speaker
If I had this thing, i would wish for something just completely innocuous, like that movie I'm always talking about on VHS, Teenage Bonnie and Kleptoclyte. Like, I just want one non-moldy working copy on VHS of this one movie, and I can't see how that would backfire, so. I mean, we'll get into the specifics later, like in spoilers, but his friend makes a wish that seems like like it something happens to him, but it's not because of the wish. So, like, I feel like that, like, i yeah, I would maybe just do his wish. and Yeah, yeah. I have something to say about that scene, but we'll get to it, so... Yeah.
00:06:46
Speaker
but What I'll say to unite those two ideas is that it seems like it's a pretty safe bet if you ask for an inanimate object, right? Like, you don't want to be messing with people, right? Right, right. that the
Problematic Behaviors: Entitlement and Passivity
00:06:56
Speaker
The thesis that this film is getting at, and we're staying in, like, spoiler-free stuff, and I don't think that we're...
00:07:01
Speaker
going too far to say that that's what the film was preoccupied about uh but what i will say you know we're still in the spoiler free uh you know realm i i have no idea how to appropriately pronounce the lead actress's name i feel like a great place to start would just be to say like if you're gonna watch this movie watch it for her i feel like this is like fantastic indy navarrette Is that correct? Or I don't know. ah she I mean, just go to me right she's going to be a star. I mean, I never I think people were saying they knew her from that previous ah recent Superman show, Superman Lois. I never watched it, but I said either. uh but yeah she's immediately engaging and like i can't wait to to see what she does next and i also think that michael johnston does a really good job at play i mean yeah his his character is an awful guy we'll get the specifics of how much he sucks but like i think he is but and he said in interviews of like yeah i'm playing him as a huge because i think there is a difference when someone plays someone shitty that you kind of have to come at it from a non as an actor from like a non-judgmental
00:08:06
Speaker
place in terms of like, you're just thinking in terms like what does this character want, you know, and like going falling through on on that, you know, like, like, yes, he knows, assume he knows that the bear is not a good guy. But like, when you're playing him, if you're thinking, oh this guy's tear, I mean, unless the characters like self loathing, which bear maybe is to some degree, but he's also hugely narcissistic. So I think he does a great job of of playing. Yeah, a guy like there's there's simultaneously layers to like what he's doing. But also there also isn't much like he's just like kind of a boring guy.
00:08:47
Speaker
Like like and yeah I feel like a lot of like incel type guys. It's like, know, maybe women just aren't into just because you're just like dull, man. Like, don't know, develop a personality first and then see what happens. How about wash your hair? Not a spoiler to say. His hair was so distractingly greasy in that movie that like the first thing I thought was like, this dude needs to wish for some shampoo because I don't understand how it's so hard to just wash your fucking hair.
00:09:15
Speaker
Like, get some dry shampoo, something. was like, so gross. And it's funny because like, that's an objectively handsome man. Like, he's a good looking guy. I was like, wow, they really like greased him up for this movie. He looks so gross to me. I don't know. And he just has,
Audience Reactions and Controversial Scenes
00:09:32
Speaker
like, loser energy. You know, like, so much of confidence in attraction is just how you carry yourself. And, like, this guy's biggest sin is his passivity. Like, I've seen that people ding the movie for that in terms like, that he's not... Like a super, mean, he definitely does make a decision that fuels the whole movie. But then people are like, yeah, he's like too passive. And I'm like, that's, I think that's the point is that he thinks he should just be given this stuff without having to do anything. Like that's a very specific kind of guy, which is unfortunately like a somewhat common mindset that these guys have. And then when things go sideways, he feels like they should just fix themselves because he's entitled for them to be like better instead of putting like any effort in. Like, he just sucks. Yeah, he doesn't want to give anything up. The thing that makes him so pathetic and so dangerous as well is that, like, not only does he have this entitlement, but he is such an empty vessel in terms of not understanding exactly what he wants, what, you know, wants desire, right? I don't think that's a spoiler to say, right? Like, he's seeking some form of companionship, but at the end of the day, he's seeking that in just idea only rather than understanding, like, what it takes to actually, you know, enter some kind of situation like that. And his entitlement grows further beyond that, where he just wants fit within his own narrow idea of what that is, rather than exploring, you know, any of that, right?
00:11:00
Speaker
Going further. Yeah. Like, we'll get into, like, all of the deeper implications that are presented with this idea, right? But the baseline is that this guy has no interest in the interiority of anybody else's lives but his own.
00:11:14
Speaker
But then even then, he isn't doing the work to, like, examine himself, right? So it's ah usually these kinds of films, you know, it would be very easy to paint them as, ah you know, just scumbag and they would push it to the nth degree. But the film is able to thread that needle because the character is so passive and And so, you know, avoided of, you know, approaching their issues, that all of this stuff can, you know, be delivered in a way that's, that's able to like go down easier to to where we're able to analyze the scenario a bit better. I feel like I'm rambling too much. I'll leave it there. No, no, I think that's a good point. And I think the good thing that this movie does is that he he's an awful person, but he's not like a cartoon villain. Like, it kind of reminds me of, like, how sometimes movies about racism, like, paint the racist, like, when, of course, there are people who are, like, outrageously racist, like, can't contain it to, like, an absurd level. But that also then gives the audience an out where, like, a white person watching, well, it's like, well, I don't do that. Like, i'm not. Right, right. I'm not like that guy frothing at the mouth. So like, I'm um good. And so like, I think it's good that like there is like bear bear is recognizably human so that like lot of guys have come away from this. Like, you know, like can sign kind of see myself in him. And I think that's important. So like, because like, you don't want to let your audience off the hook. And I i feel like
00:12:39
Speaker
by forcing us into his perspective, I feel like that's very intentional. And it's just smart by Curry Barker to know, I mean, cause it's not saying that like a man couldn't write this from the female perspective, but I think that he is probably just knowing of like, well, I, I know I could do it. I can execute it this way, you know? Cause I, I, I can, I can pull, pull off that, that perspective. And so ah that's a strength, strength of the movie. I think. But let's... Oh, sorry, go ahead.
00:13:12
Speaker
It's a good thing he didn't try to write it from the female perspective. And I do think that that Bear
Character Motivations and Narrative Tension
00:13:18
Speaker
being sort of a... Like, he he sucks, but in, like, a low-level way that, like, personally as, like, a woman, I've known so many guys and been close to so many guys who, when you look back on it, you're like, oh, he fucking sucked. But he was just so nice guy about it that you're like...
00:13:36
Speaker
Oh, you know, i'm like I'm giving up a bad rap. He just cares. And, and and you know, he's just ah a little insecure. And I just got to like make sure he knows that like it's fine. And and then when you look back on and you're like, oh, no, that was like actually high key kind of abusive. Like not and like I'm not someone who puts, you know, like how there's there's this sort of trend, especially in the social media age.
00:13:58
Speaker
of being like, that's so abusive or or like I'm being gaslit. And like these terms have kind of lost meaning. But like there is something abusive about like a man being like, well, I care about you so much.
00:14:11
Speaker
So when you're having a hard time, why aren't you prioritizing my feelings about it? And it's like because I'm the one who is having a hard time. And like I've had relationships like that, even friendships like that that I've had to walk away from because it's like you are abusing me. Like, I'm now afraid of you because I can't move in any sort of way without without like feeling like I'm under a microscope. So like, ah but like, you know, on the surface level, you look at them and you're like, oh, no, like he's like a good guy. He just cares about her. Like he just like really likes her. There's nothing inherently wrong with really liking somebody. and I've really liked a lot of people who haven't really liked me back. And that's okay But like, it's just like, I don't know. I thought it was a really good depiction of that kind of low level, hard to pinpoint. Like, oh, actually, that's wrong. Do you know what I mean?
00:14:58
Speaker
Maybe I'm rambling now. I didn't think you were rambling before, or Tony. But that's just how i will either I... No, no, you you hit the nail you hit the nail on the head. Yeah. I walked away from this movie visibly shaking. Like, I was extremely upset. for I was so upset that I had to watch... I asked my son, he's 22, I asked him to watch Faces of Death with me at 2 a.m. so I could calm down for a while. upset I was about obsession. And that's a very goofy movie and I liked it very much, but it was not that same kind of heavy. like Like my whole theater was like traumatized walking out of obsession. And yeah yeah you could tell every woman was replaying in her head like that guy that made her feel crazy in some sort of way. so i There's a lot happening with Obsession. so And it's really hard to kind of pull all the threads. And I really hope I can see it against you. Well, I think we're ready to to jump for into the spoiler-free talk because, yeah, i'm I'm chomping at the bit to to take ah to to deep dive on on all these threads. But like ah let's just say, say like if you're listening to this and you haven't seen it, just go fucking see it. Pause the show. Yeah.
00:16:08
Speaker
See it and then come back. come Come back. I mean, horror is best enjoyed with with it all. Like, you you want to be traumatized with other people. Like, that's the way that's the way to do it.
00:16:20
Speaker
If I could sell this movie to anybody just on the preface, you know, it's like, i would... Give it to people who liked the loved ones, the Australian films or the entity from the 80s. Like, I feel like somewhere between those two movies, if you like those both or one or the other, then you're going to. That's a great pull. Barbara Hershey in the entity. That's like an all timer horror performance. I mean, I should trigger warning for that movie, but like it is fantastic. hmm.
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's it's definitely not an easy watch, but neither is Obsession. That's true. but Like, it's not a perfect movie. We can talk about some of the issues that it has when we get to it, but it's still a great one and definitely one that's best enjoyed with the crowd. And it's going to be a conversation piece beyond 2026, I'm sure. Yeah.
00:17:21
Speaker
All right. So, yeah, we're we're we snap we snap the willow where we're in. We're in spoiler free. ah
00:17:30
Speaker
ah So about the wish itself, I've seen people say that like, yeah like yes, by by a certain point, everyone is aware of how bad Bear is. But I think some people are kind of in denial, like the character is, about just how inherently what what he's wishing for is. Because, Colleen, like you said, like, yeah, liking someone who doesn't like you back, that's a universal, like, that's that's just being human. Like, that's like...
00:17:57
Speaker
the experience of ah attraction and going through life. But the fact that his wish isn't even, I want her to like me. I mean, that there's still like ethical implications of if that was his wish, but no, his wish is, I wish that she loved me more than anyone has ever loved anyone in the world. So like right there, i think, I think we're in dangerous territory. He's never watched a Twilight Zone episode in his life, and it shows. For sure Absolutely. I wish Nikki reciprocated my feelings for her. There you go.
00:18:33
Speaker
That's it. i mean like I mean, it's still like, you know, obviously there's still like the autonomy thing. But if if you want to give him a little bit of wiggle room and say, well, he didn't know that the wish was going to come true— It's like, yeah, ah of course not. But whenever anyone wishes anything, there is the implication that you would like for it to come true. Like, that's yeah why you're wishing for it. So, so like, of course, like, whatever. But like, he's never watched a show. He's never watched that Simpsons episode. Like, like, you have to phrase these things specifically, or else bad stuff's gonna happen. so
00:19:08
Speaker
but But that's what he wants or he wouldn't have phrased it that way. you know yeah i wanted to drill into like the selfish element, right? Because like I think that any wish, you know let alone like this wish or a birthday one, what have you, right? When you're wishing for something, you're not thinking about like the mechanics of you know if that were to happen right away.
00:19:27
Speaker
You're not thinking about you know if I wish for this, how does it impact the people who are around me immediately, right? A wish is a pie in the sky thing, you know? I want a car, right? Like, okay, where does the car come from? Who's paying for the car, right? All these things just comes from the ceiling. Tony, look out!
00:19:43
Speaker
the The movie maybe would do that, you know, if the friend had... Crashes through your wall. Right? Exactly, right? But I think that the film's decision just out the gate to be like, no, okay, so the the whole, you know, context in which we're going to jump out from, right, is this autonomy question, right? The idea that he just simply asks for, I want her to be to love me more than anyone in the world, right? Open-ended
Thematic Depth and Societal Comparisons
00:20:08
Speaker
thing.
00:20:08
Speaker
And then from there, it's not so much about like that. relationship being creepy like the trailers showing or whatever it's more so about like you know how how much or how little of her is left right and how much of this is ethically right or wrong when the answer is he's a scumbag from the start obviously um but at the same time The interesting thing for me is that in all these monkey's paw stories, it's usually framed just around how it's impacting the protagonist. And this time around, we're focused so much more about the mechanics of it without it breaching into just like exposition exposition every scene. Like it's just going a bit deeper and asking us to think about like, okay, how does the wishes work? And that actually makes the horror deeper and scarier. Yeah, absolutely. I like that.
00:20:51
Speaker
I kind of want to rewind just back to the the first scene because, yeah, he sucks from the the get-go, like, when he's, like, practicing what he wants to say to her. And, yes, like, ah how ah how old are they supposed to be? Like, early 20s or something? or becausere early twenty s yeah Yeah, because Sarah's like trying to get into to school. So not I mean, older people could go to college, but they lately they look like they're in their twenty early 20s or something. So ah like, yeah, you can have crazy, intense, like crushes and the feelings, but the like the way he's expressing it in just that practice and the fact that that's it, he thinks what he's saying is snoring.
00:21:31
Speaker
I'm like, you should not open with that. Do not. Don't say like his his friend. I'm going to say his friend gives him the best, of all the best advice. But I think his reaction of like, that's crazy. Don't say that is correct.
00:21:45
Speaker
Like, is you need some better script. Yeah, but if you notice, though, the waitress, and maybe she was just being nice. I don't know. But she was like, I thought that that was really good. And honestly, like, well, it's it's funny, too, because I didn't pick up on this, but I did see, like, chatter about it later. But, like, when he's like, well, what do you like about Nikki? Our hero or whatever is like... Oh, well, she's just like, she's really pretty.
00:22:09
Speaker
but like, he doesn't have anything to say about like who she is as a person. Not like she's kind. She feeds homeless people. She's a good writer. She's, you know, she she like loves her friend. She's a good person. Like I had a student the other day ask me when you love someone, what do you what is it that you love about them beyond beyond like your physical attraction to them? And I was like, oh, and I went on for like 10 minutes, like a romantic love, the love for my friends, the love for people I know. And she was like, this is all really good. And it made me think like, they're right. Like he never really says what he loves about her, even though she's clearly like a pretty cool and nice person. But that waitress was like, this is good. You should go with this.
00:22:48
Speaker
And the friend who, of course, we find out might have ulterior motives. It's like, that fucking sucked, bro. And it's like, first of all, listen to the woman. Don't listen to the guy. single guy. When you're asking for romantic advice about wooing a woman. But I just thought it was funny that that waitress seemed authentically like, oh, yeah, I don't think it's. I mean, she took time out of her work to sit there and do that with them. I wouldn't were You better give her tip.
00:23:18
Speaker
yeah they better like taking care of that but i i think that uh what's good about that scene is that it like the waitress likes that in that moment because he's being honest right it's sincere he's yeah he's not trying to you know like emotionally emotionally manipulate the scenario to be the perfect timing to like you know now i'm gonna ask her out right and and and definitely to the point of like oh what does he even like about her right like the only impression i get that you know he has any feelings for her is that she's just kind of like one of the boys, you know, like she's always around at trivia night, you know, like it works with the thing, you know, like, like she's just kind of around, you know, I, it sounds like she was an emotional support pillar. Cause like he said, like, like when I, when,
00:24:01
Speaker
She was there for me like when no one else was or like when I moved here or something. So it's just like it's about what that the function that she served for his emotions of like, yeah, I needed someone to make me feel better. And she did. So therefore, I love her. And maybe she needed him because of Freaky Nikki, right?
00:24:20
Speaker
Like, and which makes what happens later on when he drops her off that time. I think that that's what makes that extra pointed, you know? When he negs her. Is that what negs? I've never quite understood, like, negging as a concept. Like. Yeah, just like being shitty and being like, yeah, i'm flirting with you. and it's Yeah, it's like it's like flirting via insults. Like, this is where my age, like, I will be 45 this year. This is where my age really, really shows. Because I'm like, I don't understand negging. What do the kids mean?
00:24:51
Speaker
I'm 35 and I barely understand it. I think it's just supposed to be the antithesis of like, well, girls don't like nice guys. So like, you gotta to just be fucking mean to them or something. like It's also just the idea that where it's like, oh, you like you can kind of like dish it back and forth kind of thing, you know, almost sarcastically. Right. Like, you know, we can kind of be rude with each other is kind of the impulse that I kind of understand it to be.
00:25:15
Speaker
That being said. Well, that's just being like playfully catty like that. I feel like that's different. like its that's different it's like a step It is different, I agree, but I think it's just like ah an evolution of that is what I'm getting at. right i stuck it it Like a step beyond that. Do it do I agree with it? Is that something that I would like in my romantic relationships? Not really, you know, not my cup of tea, you know, but at the same time, I think that's what they're getting at.
00:25:39
Speaker
And it's it's funny because we never get background on the freaky Nikki stuff. So it's like, what does that mean exactly? Like, was she crazy in high school? Like, i think and maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I think it's kind of unclear how long they've known these people. Like, maybe that kind of glossed over. And if I want, like, I would like to go see it again and and really pay attention to, like, all the minutiae. But, like...
00:26:01
Speaker
Like, did they know each other in high school? Like, did they know Freaky Nikki or did they just hear like, oh, people called me that because like maybe she slotted around or like, you know, maybe she was just like. How dare she? Kind of like, like no judgment, but like or maybe she was like, you know, kind of just like eccentric in a way. Like, you know, like like I was very much like the weird friend in high school.
00:26:25
Speaker
And like you growing up and like moving out of town, I realized I wasn't really all that weird. I just like went to high school with a lot of kind of repressed people. But like, but like maybe she was just kind of fucking weird. And like she's a writer. So I'm a writer. I get it. We write weird shit. Like, I don't know. But like, I just think the concept of like, I love this girl so much. Like, hey, remember when you were a fucking psycho in high school? That's not like flirting to me. It's so odd.
00:26:53
Speaker
So I don't know. I don't know. Because is it... Okay, here shit here's the principle behind negging. Isn't it that, like, you lower their self-esteem ah down a notch so then that they're more vulnerable, right? Isn't that, like, the point of it? Oh, is that it?
00:27:07
Speaker
Oh, I I think that's what it is. So it's just like, yeah, the of what... freaky nikki refers to as ambiguous but i think its goal is to like yeah like just take her down a peg then then she's yours for the take yeah just remind her that she sucked once before ah in in like an arbitrary way so maybe she should just date you like
Friendship Dynamics and Misunderstandings
00:27:28
Speaker
that doesn't how does that make a guy feel good i don't know it's just like the whole concept is just bizarre to me maybe i'm just too old No, we should also point out the fact that like he wasn't the one who came up with this idea. It was the friend who said, hey, you should say this to her. And I like I do believe because like like I'm i'm not going to pretend like, oh, I'm some grand wizard who's like, oh, I came up with it before it came in the movie or whatever. But it was just definitely a situation where like I kind of saw what was coming with the whole like they were sleeping together from the yeah right. I clocked that, too.
00:28:00
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, I've been in friend groups like that. So like it kind of just had that vibe. yeah It's weird because I've seen. Oh, sorry. No, you go on. I will. yeah I'll just I'll finish up real quick just because it's a quick final point. Like I when he's giving him the advice at the beginning of the movie, I don't think that he's setting him up for success. I think that he's purposely setting him up for failure. And this whole like, you know, freaky naked thing, he thinks that it's going to work in that kind of way. He doesn't even have a full of belief in that this negative thing will work. If it were up to him, he would be, you know, doing the thing that he did in the diner. But because he is just, he has no spine, he he doesn't deserve to be in the relationship, obviously, right? Because there is no earned, you know, camaraderie or relationship there, right? So, ah yeah, that's all I wanted to say there. Yeah. And it's it's funny because I've seen a lot of chatter of like, what was the friend's goal there? Like, because I've seen people be like, I read it as him being actually kind of supportive. And maybe like, you know, like, their friends with benefits situation was over at that point. And and he was like, yeah, it's like cool if you like date Nikki, like, I don't care or whatever. But like,
00:29:09
Speaker
Like, again, i think I just have to watch it again to kind of, like, get a better read on it. But um I did sort of have the ah ah suspicion that but maybe he had hooked up with her before or whatever. He just seemed to, like, know her better than than a bit or even staff newer so but like i'm like i don't know i don't know how to really read that because it was like because i've definitely been in friend situations i mean like i've had like boyfriends and then like my first husband was my ex-boyfriend's friend like we started dating after we broke up and we were like are you cool with us dating he was like i don't fucking care because he had already had a new girlfriend that he's been with ever since like they've been married for like 20 years now but like
00:29:52
Speaker
So I've been in those like those kind of situations where it's like, oh, like I've slept with people in this friend group and and everyone's cool with it. And then I've also seen those situations where it's like, oh, like people slept with and they are not cool with it. So it's just like hard to read for me. I don't know.
00:30:08
Speaker
Um, but, but, uh, I, I don't know if, cause like maybe that kid, I forget his name, but like maybe he did fucking neg her once and she was like, oh I'm into it. Like, who knows? Like maybe he genuinely thought if he was like, just throw out freaking Nikki at her and see what happens. It would like maybe be good. i don't know. It's so funny. It's just such an insane, like concept to me. I don't know. Yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
Because even if it was just a casual thing of them hooking up, and even if it had ended, like, there could still be be some kind of territorialness on, I believe the friend's name is Ian, Ian's part, you know, of where it's, you know, like, yeah, i my guys have that dumb caveman mentality of like, well, i no, she's mine, even though you're not even, like, with her. yeah So, ah yeah, I think it's totally fair to read that as, like, yeah, he's he he does not want his friend to succeed, and how good of a friend is even, really, you know?
00:31:04
Speaker
Well, yeah, like, like the way I'm reading the situation, it's not that I'm thinking that he's like, you know, he's going to puncture the tires and have them fully miss, like fail or whatever. But I'm thinking that he wants him to get it out of his system, you know? And, and also what we see too, is that like at the start of this film, like he's, he tells her to call her freaky Nikki, but he also says, don't ask her out tonight. Right. He's trying to delay it. Right. And it seems like he's been trivia night. It's the only thing he has trivia night. But that also feels like kind of a front to like, like I don't fully trust, like I get that he doesn't want to ruin trivia night, right? Like that feels realistic to me, right? But then there's also another thing to where it's like, he doesn't want to be around. It's awkward for him. Like like he kind of like, there's just something about all of that that makes all this weird. And then also we should point out the fact that like, yes, we agree that they're in their early twenties, right? And they went to the high school with each other, right? They all work at the same place.
00:32:00
Speaker
they're still in the same town, right? Like there's, there's, so there's a vibe about that, right? And I feel like there's also a vibe about like, what's to be said about the people who do stay and then like, the fact that they don't choose that, right? The fact that they're just kind of forced into that scenario because of their proximity, right? And I think that there is definitely natural chemistry that can be formed there that won't be forced. But i definitely think that as people grow up, they start to realize they're just like, well, how much do I really owe this person, right? Like,
00:32:29
Speaker
how like how much of my own personality am going to carve? feel like a lot of these characters are at that point in their life, you know? How much of it is like, don't do that tonight because it's trivia night, but if you ask her out, she might say, oh, I've been hooking up with Ian or whatever his name is. And then that secret comes out and then it's like... Plows up his spot.
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah. Ruins the situation. And there's also a lot to say too, like shifting over a tiny bit. ah There's a lot to say about like, oh, well, she said... that Bear was like a brother to her, to like Steph, and then Steph told like Ian or whatever. Is that his name? Is that what we said, Ian? Yeah.
00:33:07
Speaker
Ian's the friend. Yeah,
Miscommunication and Human Flaws
00:33:08
Speaker
yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it's like, but we never hear that from her herself. It's secondhand or thirdhand. funny because it's like, here's like media literacy, right? Where like a lot of people are like, well, she said he was like a brother. It's like, no, she didn't say that.
00:33:24
Speaker
Steph said that. And Ian said that maybe at one point. But and like Steph, it came from Steph. And it's like, but did it? Or and then and then also, did she just say that because one, maybe she didn't want it coming out that she, you know, oh, I can't because I'm already sleeping with this guy. Or was it like, oh, I do kind of like him because she kind of hints that she does sort of like him, which I cannot constantly like ah conceptualize at all. But. Yeah. um My biggest issue with the film, honestly. Yeah. But ah but like, you know, she's she drops that.
00:33:55
Speaker
What we get from her is if I have a crush on somebody, you won't know about it. Right. And so like it's like, well, what is Nikki telling us versus what is like other people telling us Nikki said?
00:34:07
Speaker
You know, so there's like a lot of and and it's I've seen this a lot. And I agree. This is a friend group that does not know how to fucking talk to each other. And I've definitely been in these types of friend groups and they're not great.
00:34:19
Speaker
ah and And obviously, if they knew how to talk to each other, we wouldn't have the movie. So it's like, yeah, like the the I think the main ah enemy here is they're all just so fucking toxic. and like they can't just say, yeah, we've been hooking up. It's no big deal.
00:34:33
Speaker
Or she can't just say, I like you. Like, I have a crush on you. Or does she have a crush on there because Nikki suddenly loves you? Like, what are these dynamics and why isn't anyone just saying it They all want to avoid a potentially uncomfortable confrontation or, you know, conversation, which is like, yeah, it's awkward. It sucks to have those conversations, especially if they don't go the way you want. But it's like, that's just, you know, human interaction. Although to Nikki's credit, she does just straight up, you know, after she gets dropped off, she's like, hey, do you like me? after he drops the freaking. Yeah, just fucking say it. Like, like, let's just clear the air here. Like, let's just, which could, it could mean she likes him or could just be like, yeah, fucking tell me so I can, you know, decide what to do next with that information.
00:35:22
Speaker
I could turn you down or... Exactly, right? like Like the whole question of if Nikki likes him or not, like i almost feel like that question is almost irrelevant in the grand scheme of the film itself because like when she is in the car with him, she gives him so many opportunities beyond, but before even, you know, asking that outright, right? Like there are definitely moments where she's doing the thing where it's like,
00:35:45
Speaker
eh? Like, are going to do anything? Right? and and Because she's asking she' it she's asking how he feels about Sarah. I think her name is Sarah who works at the story. yeah ah but But like when it comes to, you know, ah her own opinions on Bear, I don't get the impression that she is romantically interested in him. I think that she is just like, I already know that you like me. I just want you to fucking, you know, say what shit or get off the pot. Right, say it, we can we can process it, we can talk about it, we can move past it. like Exactly, yeah. And whether or not she likes him, you know, like that's up in the air. It's the fact that he doesn't say anything in that moment that matters more. It's the fact that he doesn't say anything that speaks more to his character and then makes all it colors all of this in the worst ways as it continues.
00:36:33
Speaker
It's just so frustrating. And it's like, I don't know. I guess it's just... I don't know. I think you had made a post, Colleen, of like, yeah, maybe she likes him or maybe she just was frustrated he couldn't, like, finish a sentence because he he can't he can't get anything. And sure, i've had crushes worse I've had crushes where, you know, like, I get flustered and I forget what I'm trying to say or whatever, but, like... ah he and like Tony said he's given so many opportunities or second chances just within that encounter where he could recover and just be like yeah shoot just shoot your shit just just fucking do it you know like get get turned down it sucks but then that's just like fucking life and then you could you know move on to the next thing because ah apparently there's I don't know why but there's another girl who does like you so you know like you you could explore you'd be free to explore that then
00:37:28
Speaker
I did make that post, and and one of the and i understand it's his character. and I do understand that the point of it is like he's a fucking like loser who cannot just like say what he means, even though he's like a big boy who like lives in a house because his grandmother fucking left it to him. But it's just like ah the whole movie is him half saying a sentence. He's like, Nikki, um...
00:37:48
Speaker
Oh, ah what's the matter? Oh, my cat. um Nothing. I'm like, just fucking say it, dude. Like, just finish your scent. Oh, my God. Men like this. Gotta be fucking crazy. I'm not not even just men. I shouldn't say that. People like this. Just say what you mean and stop. I don't have all day to to decode what you are trying to tell me. it's so it was so frustrating. it's just like, i don't know This is so funny.
00:38:15
Speaker
It's kind of like the Oppenheimer of horror movies because in that movie, I do like that people just keep asking him to have a stance on anything, especially like the the crazy thing that he's a part of. And he won't until it's way too late. And he's like, hey, wait, that was wrong. He does have a stance. Oh. And it it's very subtle, not to Oppenheimer talk for a second, but it is my favorite part of the movie. And it goes by very quickly, but it's right before his test bomb explodes. And he says, these things are hard on your heart.
00:38:50
Speaker
That's his stance. It's hard on his heart. I'm going to, I'm putting it out there. But, but, but yeah, he's still, he's still going to do it, but he's like, oh man, this this hurts. Yeah.
00:39:01
Speaker
Well, I guess it's hard to, it's hard to admit that you've, you've like, you know, killed and poisoned. Facilitated genocide or genocide. Right. It's a hard hard ah cross to
In-depth Character and Societal Analysis
00:39:12
Speaker
bear. so but ah But, you know, it's a smaller scale with the Obsession kids. Yeah. ah We'll bring it back with Obsession, right? Because yeah you're you're talking about this guy not being able to, like finish his sentences. I really like that in the sense of how this works in terms of structuring the film. Because every, you know, horror set piece, right? Like, the great thing is is that you think it's going to, like, result in violence. or something you think that there's going to be like a crazy escalation that's going to change the dynamics forever right but really all that happens is like nikki does something crazy you know well crazy in quotations you know obviously loaded in this context right but like does something that's so out of human character right and he just leaves right he just goes oh all right bye you know like it's It speaks so much to this character that we keep on calling, you know, selfish, you know, you know, weak, all that stuff. and And what I was kind of getting at with having this like connection to their high school and all that stuff. I think that this whole friend group is representing like a unwillingness to grow up. And I think that it's interesting to frame that in comparison to Nikki before the wishes cast, right, where she's planning on leaving.
00:40:25
Speaker
Right, right. Clearly, right? she There's nothing here that's tethering her down. i think that like she's throwing this you know these opportunities for Bear to ask her out kind of as like a, you know, you're never going to know. unless you now's Now's the time. no You know, like if you have something to say, speak now, whoever holds your peace. Shit or get off the pot. Exactly. But he's just too pathetic.
00:40:49
Speaker
so Yeah, he can't do it. too much of a shit weasel it's like and i think i did see a really good take and i feel like i'm just like excessively online and i know you guys are too so it's okay but like um because i'm like i saw a cake but uh but like i did see a really good like like where it's just like these people are so terrified to be
00:41:18
Speaker
Vaguely problematic, right? So it's like, it's like these people are so afraid of, especially Bear, right? He's so afraid of being seen as a bad guy whatever.
00:41:31
Speaker
or of making a mistake. Like if I tell her I like her, ah dynamic is going to change. And if it changes for the worse, then I'm the bad guy and I am afraid to put that out there in the world. Like, like, and it's a very much sort of like related to like the, I would don't want to say cancel culture because like nothing really gets canceled, but like the sort of,
00:41:52
Speaker
dogpiling of like, I misspoke and now everyone's yelling at me. and and for the rest of my life, if I post something, people are going to be like, yeah, but remember that time you said and like no one's ever allowed to grow or make a mistake or change anymore. And I do feel like it's a very ah Internet culture coded dynamic.
00:42:13
Speaker
I thought this person was very, very on the money where it's like he is so afraid to just say, yeah, I have feelings for you. um because he's afraid of what the the outcome of that will be. And if there's a downfall or or like, you know, a windfall from it, that he's just like, would rather just be like, no, never mind, just going to go home. like like And I thought that that was pretty spot on. like Like, a lot of them are just afraid to say what they what they want to say because they are afraid of making, when you say it, it becomes real.
00:42:48
Speaker
And then you have to deal with the reality of it. And you just don't want to do that. And I do think it speaks to like, they don't want to grow up. Like they're, you know, they're like, kid they all work for their friend's dad. Yeah.
00:43:00
Speaker
They don't have like, I don't want to say real jobs. It's, it's clearly a job, but like, but like, you know, like it is that small town. Like we've known each other forever. We all work together. We all sleep with each other or like each other. And it's like, there's a whole world out there, man.
00:43:15
Speaker
and well the dad probably knew them all when they were kids right like that's probably the way they got that job anyways oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and and and definitely going off of you know this whole like idea of like quasi cancel culture you know like you you were saying like it's not real i agree right but i think that like this fear of it this paranoia of being perceived the wrong way that's real to some people the fear makes it real Right. yeah Exactly. for For these particular types of people, these bears. Right. And I think that when it comes to how he's evolving throughout the story. Right. Like he's accused of things as the film starts, pretty much as the wishes cast. Right. And we see is like he has to kind of come to the realization that like, no, the person that people are saying that I am, I am that guy.
00:44:03
Speaker
Right. And he just can't admit that to himself. Right. And that's what makes them so insidious. That's what makes us so nefarious as ah as a viewer. Right. um Like, i like the thing that I said when I first watched this movie, I'm like, this this is a great litmus test movie, right? Like you show this to somebody who you're kind of on the fence about, you know, and like, depending on how they read bear is like, that'll tell you a lot about that person's character. and oh yeah. they Afford them sympathies. Right. and And for me, like I almost kind of,
00:44:32
Speaker
ah Like when I was watching this movie, because like from the jump, it was so cruel what the implications were. I was like off his case from the jump. Right. And some of the things that the movie gives it, I feel like it's trying to make it more dramatically compelling, but it almost feels like it's giving him the easy way out in some instances. You know what I mean?
00:44:51
Speaker
Definitely a lot of people ah telling on themselves with with how they feel about this movie. Yeah. I think he's looking for plausible deniability because to me, it's pretty obvious that the wish works immediately. Some people are like, oh, not till he calls customer service. Does he like clock what's happened? But she is a market immediately acting different and out of character.
00:45:14
Speaker
and he's given some explanations like drugs or her father died i never believed those for it's not like the movie's playing it ambiguously of like oh maybe your father did die and she's going through with i'm like no the wish worked this is this is ah this is obvious what's happening i i know what i mean i i know what movie i bought a ticket to but like no but bear also i think knows and he's just like because I think it's important like his reaction to like the next day when she shows up and gives him the like yeah I was on Molly explanation and she throws in there like I don't want it to feel like you took advantage of me and he kind of freaks out at that he's like I didn't and he's like no I said you didn't because it's like I he already knows what he did yeah so he's like that's him his like guilty cause be like well I didn't take advantage anybody
00:46:02
Speaker
Yeah. And then, I mean, a lot of people, yeah. Oh, until you call customer service. But that whole restaurant scene, which, by the way, is a little Tony's here right down the street from me. A lot of filming locations are like Green Man is right down the street from me.
00:46:16
Speaker
Oh, awesome. They played ah the bar that they're at, this roguelike tavern, which was down the street from me, but I think they're moving. And Little Tony's is like a very well-known and established Italian place here. And I actually got stuffed shelves the other night because I was like, I've been craving it ever since I watched the movie. so ah but But like them at that restaurant and he's like,
00:46:40
Speaker
is your dad really dying? And she's like, does it matter? like that's when he knows that like, and, and that's, you know, you could give plausible deniability to the like, oh, I was on Molly and like, I'm just really acting weird all of a sudden, but that's when he knows. And that's way before he, and then a smash cuts to him just like basically raping her. And it's just yeah upsetting because it's like, he doesn't fucking care as long, as long as, you know, she's with him and she, he doesn't,
00:47:11
Speaker
like all the crazy shit she does, he's still like, oh, you know, it's great. Until like, until it really fucking spirals. But even then, he's like, is it okay to adjust the way it's a little? which Which I thought was very funny, but. Yeah, it's just inconveniencing him how it's manifesting. He doesn't want to like take it back or undo it. Like, I mean, he finds that that's not possible, but that's, he doesn't, he's initially, yeah, like you said, he just is like, can I like can i just tweak it?
00:47:40
Speaker
And it's very much like, like i'm very, and and I'm sure most people have experienced this on either, ah you know, end of whatever gender, but like, ah there is very much a, this person liked an idea of me more than me. And now that they have me, they're like, oh, I don't fucking like this at all.
00:47:58
Speaker
And it's like, okay, but like, I told you who I was from the beginning. So this is really on you. And there's like very much like that sort of, ah situation happening with Nikki where it's like, well, you wished for this and now you don't like it and you're so super fucking inconvenienced by it.
00:48:16
Speaker
And and ah you don't want to give up like the sex and the like affection, but you want to give up all the other stuff. And it's like, well, that's just not how that works. So you have to give it up completely, right? So I did love the dude at the store though. He's like, you could just kill yourself. Like, it's just It's how casually that's thrown out of like, yeah, the customer service guy too.
00:48:36
Speaker
Me every day on Twitter. Not able to say it though, because like I'll get a ban, but I'm just like, no, I get this guy. Well, if you post images, I feel like that's circumvented sometimes because sometimes I've just posted the, with a low text, just the image of Marie from Breaking Bad when she's like, well, you could kill you. Just like the screen cap of her mouth open from that moment. And I i don't get flagged. So I usually do the Matthew McConaughey from True Detective. um but ah But one time there, I do have a speech out of Jenna from 30 Rock where she's like, can I give you some constructive advice?
00:49:10
Speaker
You should kill yourself. ah And I was using that pretty... often but then i did get slagged for it so i stopped using it or i cut it so you can't see the text like oh see like half of it you know what mean yeah i think if you take the text away then that then you're good but i think matthew mcconaughey one is pretty good because he just looks so pissy he's like no inherently what he's saying it's so funny but yeah i loved those institution Yeah. Yeah. I loved i loved those bits like the cut I love that in the substance of the like the customer service just like the uninterested like definitely was about to go on lunch.
Challenges in Character Development
00:49:48
Speaker
Like, oh, man. All right. You didn't it' so fucking can read the fine print, bro. It speaks to like the the nihilistic worldview in the sense that like, oh, you're fucked, right? Like you're yeah from from this from the point that he made the wish, he made a bad wish. He's screwed, right? And we know this because we've seen these kinds of films before. But ah like we said from the jump, you know, what's interesting is the twist on it. And also like something that we said at the beginning, this whole question of like, what does Barry even see in Nikki that he likes, right? And I think that it's very important that early on, right, when he's seeing and understanding that like this Nikki that's in front of him is not exactly the person that he originally liked.
00:50:28
Speaker
saw right it doesn't really seem to matter to him immediately right it just seems like he only likes the idea of being with nikki an idea only he doesn't have any kind of care consideration for her interiority for her passions or interests he just wants to own her like a possession right and all of these things uh you know at that dinner table sequence um he's he's seeing how in control he is right he's seeing am i still you know do I still hold all the keys here? Right. And to him, he thinks he does. Right. And that's what makes him so nefarious. Right. Because he's like, as long as I'm getting what I want from the bargain out of this, then I'm not going to change things. And it's, it's gross. Right. And right. And cutting right to that, that rape scene, like you said, right. Like we're talking about, ah
00:51:14
Speaker
audience uh moments right like seeing this movie i saw this movie opening day and it was like me and a couple who were in this movie theater and the couple was really excited to see it the guy who was there he was oh it's gonna be so sick and like the moment that that happened he just goes oh like it was one of those things where i was like i know exactly like everybody who here all three of us we are all on the exact same page There was, there was a, I was in a full theater. It was, i think the night it came out. um I was like, I gotta to just go see this movie. And, ah and the whole theater just went, ah like at the same time, like we all had this like groan of just like horror. It was a good, it was a good crowd movie just to like kind of gauge how people... And I i had known that car scene was coming. i That had been spoiled for me. But I was just like, yeah and like the whole crowd was just like, no. But I think speaking to what you were saying, like, and yes, going back to like, what can he even tell anyone about Nikki?
00:52:13
Speaker
Besides, she's a hot, cool girl that he wants to be interested in him is like the fact that she drops like, I want to leave town.
00:52:25
Speaker
And he's like, I got to tell her, right? And it's like, how fucking selfish are you that she just said, nothing is here for me. and I would like to leave.
00:52:36
Speaker
and And for your first impulse to be like, Oh, but I don't want you to. Well, got to chain her up now. I can't let her leave. I got a black snake boner. what about me? Oh, exactly. And, you know, and, like, I've lived through, like, people leaving. You know what I mean? And it's hard. Like, it is hard when you're established with somebody, not romantically, just, like, in your life. I still lament, like,
00:53:02
Speaker
The kids that work at the Starbucks in my husband's building pre-COVID, like one of them has one of my books. Right. And like like we knew each other just like ah like I saw these people every day. Like I would walk in and they'd they'd already have a drink waiting for me and they were just so wonderful. And then they all fucking disappeared.
00:53:25
Speaker
And like, hopefully they're doing great wherever they they went. But like, that was six years ago. And I'm still like, man, I think about them all the time. Like, I hope they're okay.
00:53:36
Speaker
Martin, if you're out there, I hope you're okay. You know what I mean? but like yeah But like, it's hard when something changes, but that's just fucking part of life. And for him to just panic and be like, I gotta tell her I like her now. It's like, well, what are you asking of her? Did she stay for you?
00:53:52
Speaker
Give up her aspirations and freedom to like, no. Shitty. Yeah, I just think that's shitty. And it's like, if you're in a relationship, I could see being like, well, like, okay, well, what about us? You know, like, but like, this is just someone you play trivia with and work with. And I don't even think you could say what she writes. Like, I'm a writer.
00:54:13
Speaker
And it's like, and I keep seeing people going like, oh, that poem she read was so fucked up. That was not a poem. That was fiction. I don't know why like Gen Z seems to not understand what a poem is. But like,
00:54:24
Speaker
But like, ah you know, like can you even tell me what genre she writes? You know, they have a conversation about it in the car. but like Right, like romance versus yeah would love. versus love.
00:54:35
Speaker
But like, before that that, like, is this the first time he's ever even been asking about this? Probably. he's never even asked to read something she's written. i guarantee it, you know?
00:54:46
Speaker
So, yeah. Yeah, no, yeah he he only likes the idea of her. It's a classic like manic pixie dream girl scenario, right? And I think that, you know, there have been many of these deconstructions of it, like your Ruby Sparks and what have you, right? um But this one's a lot nastier. This one's a lot, you know, in the weeds of it. And like we were were just saying with that whole scene that made us all revolt, right? Like, The fact that the film is able to go to that place, but then it doesn't like revel in it. It doesn't like, you know, push it too far. i don't It's quick. It's the fact that it's quick, but then it allows for it to loom over the audience, right? To to exist in the background and to always like it frames every scenario where it's like no matter how outrageous Nikki like is as a presence, you know that he is capable of much ah worse harms than she is.
00:55:36
Speaker
that like because that ah revolting scene happens like kind of in like the first act like beginning a second act that looms over the whole film oh yeah tells us that whatever evil Nikki shows us through her like unhuman inhuman characteristics right or waking up in the middle of the night I'm never looking at her as more evil than Bear. Like I still see him as like the central villain when all of that stuff's happening, which I think it colors each of these scenes of terror in a different way than you see in most horror films.
00:56:10
Speaker
Because her her behavior is scary, but like, that's not like we're seeing it from Bear's perspective that it's Starling. It's like, she's not, the real Nikki is like trapped in, but you know, like she's in the sunken place or whatever. and but But even even wish Nikki, I can't, you know, hold it. fall Like she's she's the the result of what he wished for. So it's not like I can be like, oh wow, she's so scary and demonic. It's like, Yeah, yeah yeah she's just running through a script of, like, what what he asked for.
00:56:44
Speaker
It's really interesting because it's, like, she is, like, abusive, but, like, it's not her being abusive. So it's, like, very much interestingly, like, a reactive abuse situation, but, like, obviously played up for, like, dramatic effect or whatever. But, like, it's, like, well, he did this to her.
00:57:02
Speaker
And I remember before I saw it, I i had, I think probably off Brandon Streisand's post, I was like, as someone who's been made crazy by a man and as someone who has been stopped by a man, how much is this going to affect me badly? And someone I don't know was like, oh, extremely. And I was like, okay, okay, at least I know what I'm getting into. but like but like But it's so funny because she is abusive. And in these moments, like when he gets the text from Sarah and he's like,
00:57:33
Speaker
because like he looks at his foot like his phone goes off and he's like oh no right and she's right next to him and she's asleep or whatever and he's like trying to gently look at it so she does it and slowly gets up and I was just like this sucks because as someone who was in a very physically abusive relationship once there we didn't have cell phones back then it was because I'm very old and it was a long time ago but like Like there is that like, oh, this one misstep is going to like set this person off. So I have to be very delicate and creep around about it and stuff. And I was like, oh, like that makes me feel bad, but in a different way, because in this second,
00:58:12
Speaker
He's not really the bad guy in this. Like, all of this is happening because he sucks. But, like, in this moment, he's not the bad guy. Like, he is trying to prevent setting her off. So I identify with that. So it was, like, interesting because it's, like, you're identifying all over the place with these, like, moments that are almost contradicting each other. And it it was just very interesting to me. And it's, like, oh, but, like, none of that would have been happening.
00:58:38
Speaker
If it wasn't for him. Yeah, if it wasn't for him. So it's like a whole thing. But like and but then all the all the like sort of sympathy I have for him in that moment is completely exploded by the fact that she starts talking to him from her own.
00:58:56
Speaker
I think it's that same scene where where she's like, please kill me. Yeah. and And she's like, he I think it's that scene. and And he's like, well, what's so bad about being with me?
00:59:07
Speaker
And it's like, bro, this it like this is like having a woman chained in your basement, your inherited basement. And you're like, what are you complaining about? Yeah, like, why why am I so bad to be with? Because you fucking, ah you you have me prisoner. Like, you know, it's like a kidnapper saying it to his, like, victim. And it's just so like, oh, fuck you, dude. I don't care what happens to you at all here.
00:59:31
Speaker
but bear has successfully turned uh nikki the real nikki into john malkin sorry john kuzak at the end of being john malkovich right and he's supposed to be like oh you're you're fine with that you're just like a passenger in your own body like just kind of chill out for a second aren't you happy you know being with me is that the worst thing in the world it's gross right it's gross and uh when it comes to this idea of, you know, Nikki, the wish version being an abusive partner, that's definitely in the mixture of the film. Right. And I also think that it speaks to this idea that like the wish version of Nikki isn't getting their needs met. Right. This idea that like, uh,
01:00:10
Speaker
he gets this version of her that he's supposed to love, but even then he's falling short of a romantic partner, right? Right, so right. So I almost see like her abuse to him as kind of like a mutual thing, right? Because there could be definitely be a thing that could be said about somebody who's in an abusive relationship who then does abusive things in retaliation, right?
01:00:31
Speaker
I'm not, you know, blaming them for doing that when I say that. I'm saying that they're in a bad situation and they don't know how to react and they do that. Yeah, it's called reactive abuse. It's like a very common phrase phenomenon so exactly i didn't know the term i just wanted to you know explain it in detail yeah no no yeah you've got it like you hit the nail on the head with it Yeah, so like that's how I interpreted those sequences. And and also, because we're kind of we keep on breaching Sarah, right? I feel like that is what everything with Sarah is kind of speaking to Curry Barker's own failures as a storyteller, I think, right? I would have handled all that stuff completely differently. I think that it goes antithetical to what they're setting up in this film. She's shoehorned in.
01:01:12
Speaker
Yeah. she way She's like very one dimensional. As soon as she's introduced and like every scene she has with bear at the store, it's very clear what her purpose will be. Like, you know that she's doomed, which is fine to telegraph like that in like a tragic way. It's just like, then make her like a fully fleshed out. Cause like, even though we only spend so much time with the real Nikki, like, I feel like I understand her deal as, as a person ah ah enough. And then also bear for as shitty as he is like, yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's fleshed out. So it's like, why can't Sarah like have like, you know, I can at least understand her as a person. So like make, make, make this,
01:01:51
Speaker
if you feel her death just feels a little like it's a shocking moment like and it's you know like my my audience kind of laughs and like just like because it's like the release of like that yeah that scene goes keeps cutting back and forth of like you see all that dead space in the like the wood opening of the her her window so you're like you're like oh it's it's coming you know it's coming you know it's coming yeah You're like, something's got... Anytime I see someone in a car, in a movie, I suspect someone's going to attack or they're going to get hit by a truck. Or like, you know, like I just... When you're in a car, I just suspect something's going to happen. And I, like I had said, I had already known that it was going to happen because it had been spoiled for me. But like...
01:02:30
Speaker
but I feel like we know so much more about Ian. He loves trivia. He's been banging Nikki behind her back. he want like He works at the music store. like but but but like And Sarah's just like her dad works at the... She wants to go to college. That's what we know about her. And she wants school. Which is like, I like, I like to this, like, sort of like, I like the creative, weird type. so Like, because she's like, you know, tattooed and she's got like dark hair, like her hair is dyed and she's kind of gothy or whatever. But like, I just feel like all we know about her is like, she wants to go and we don't even get the art school thing until they're in the car.
01:03:06
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, like she she's like, and she's just like, oh, I'm here too. And, and my dad owns the store that we work at. And, and, you know, there are things that don't work for me in the movie. And she, I feel, is very shoehorned in. I feel ah Well, we can talk about more of what doesn't work for me, but go ahead, Tony. Well, like, the the the main thing is that she only exists in the plot insofar as her relationship or her feelings to Bear matter, right? That whole, like, twist of, like, oh well, I have feelings for you is the whole reason that her character is there, yeah right? Yeah, yeah. And I think that that...
01:03:43
Speaker
whole reveal is the least interesting way to go there. And I'm not trying to, you know, like script doctor, the film or whatever. Right. But I think that the more interesting way that this film should have gone is that she did have feelings for bear. And then she naturally lost feelings once he started dating Nikki. Right. And that like all of this was more so born out of her worry for Nikki rather than the selfish desire to still find a way to be with bear. Right. Because when, when we have this whole, know,
01:04:11
Speaker
you know, confrontation in the car and she's expressing her feelings to him. I'm like, i don't see any of that. this yeah I don't see it either. In fact, I was under the impression for most of the movie that she was with Ian.
01:04:24
Speaker
Exactly. that kind of It did feel like that. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, they're not dating. I thought that they were. And then, and then which would have been infinitely more eat more interesting. If she was with him, he was banging Nikki on the side. ah Nikki didn't want to tell her, ah you know, and then she like, you know, oh, because I mean, there's definitely been dynamics where it's like, oh, I'm dating this person. But I, you know, I have a crush on this person too, like whatever. But like, that would have been more interesting.
01:04:51
Speaker
But just the shoehorning in of like, oh, I like you too, and I'm going to art school. It's just like, okay. I thought it was very boring. I've got one more day until retirement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got no reason to even buy it. I'm like, yeah, what is she fucking seeing this guy? He doesn't even have a personality. He doesn't even want to her. She doesn't even have head and shoulders. Right, right. Jesus Christ. It's five bucks at the store, dude. Like, just get it. You can literally buy a bottle of shampoo for like $1.29, like the cheap stuff, like Suave or something. Yeah, yeah, the off-brand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:05:30
Speaker
This is a dire circumstance, right? Like at this point, we need some kind of moisturizing. I'm okay if he uses like the all at once, right? If he uses like the body scrub. That's fine. It's something. It's a progress. You start there and then you can graduate up to like molten brown or something, like something real like fancy, but like you got to start somewhere.
01:05:50
Speaker
But he's the type of guy where he only gets like hygiene products that say for men. Right. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I will say, as the mom of ah of a very loves to be outside, seven year old dude wipes are the best for like wiping off her feet or like chalk marks and stuff. I'm like, they're big, they're thick. i'm like, OK, I get I will buy the dude wipe pipe for this.
01:06:17
Speaker
i've actually heard this from others yeah heard that like mothers approve this yeah yeah it's just funny they can charge more than regular wipes just because they put for dudes on dude tested mother approved But, ah but yeah yeah, then there are a few things that didn't work for me. Sarah, Sarah, ah you know, it's just kind of, it's not that she didn't really, i guess she didn't work for me, but like, I wasn't too offended by it. I was just thinking like, that that could have been more interesting. um The, the very obvious Chekhov's gun of like, oh, like the dad has a gun. Like, it's like, okay, like, why are we even bringing that up?
01:06:55
Speaker
Like, You wouldn't even have to explain where that gun comes from towards the end. Like, she could just have one. She's fucking crazy. Like, so like, you know. Right, so this is America. don't need to fucking know who she bought that gun.
01:07:10
Speaker
got a gun right now. No, kidding. And the one thing that really bothered me, and this is such a fucking aside, is Ian, you know, he's like, I wish for a billion dollars. Right.
01:07:23
Speaker
And then all that money starts raining down from nowhere, which is cool. Good bit. A very funny bit. But then he comes to the house and he's like, Bear, have a billion dollars. And it's like he was there.
01:07:36
Speaker
He saw that happen. And not for anything, but he's the one who told you that the wish willow works. So yeah the minute the money started raining down, he probably assumed that it was going to be a billion dollars in the end. So that line just like doesn't work for me at all so like yeah anything else would have been like he could have just been like bear bear like it could have been a he didn't even have to say anything just been like bear bear like knocking on the door and and then just get shot before you can say anything i mean that's what like fucking happens to glenn howerton and the strangers right he just yeah he's like hello and he gets blown away which is awesome by the way but like
01:08:13
Speaker
But like that line of like, I have a billion dollars just seemed so ah like poor. it It seemed like I have since seen a lot of Curry Barker's like shorts.
01:08:24
Speaker
like His TikTok shorts, yeah. meaning Yeah. And ah which which like neither here nor there. I don't really care about them. But like... It just seems like something out of that. I did see the one where he's like, oh, guys, we've got to get in this hot tub naked. And they're like, what? like I thought that was pretty funny. But, like, I'm not making time to watch it. But it seemed like something out of that or, like, out of, like, a first draft of the script.
01:08:47
Speaker
and And whenever there's, like, a line that doesn't work, I can't move past it. Like, Owen Wilson s flubs a line in Armageddon that I'm still fucking mad about, like, 25 years later or whatever. So, yeah.
01:09:01
Speaker
So, yeah, I don't know. But ah ah those kinds of things, i was like, that's kind Plus, just the fact that this guy has, like, four kids working in this, like, not very well-frequented, like, music store is just, like, in 2026. That doesn't work. But ah but whatever. Like, that's that's fine. But there are just a few things like that where I was like, eh, okay.
01:09:24
Speaker
But also, this is his first feature film. So, like... yeah the The thing with Ian at the end does feel like the merging of like two different drafts of the film.
Comedic Elements vs. Serious Plot Points
01:09:34
Speaker
like' Like, oh, there was another version of one of those scenes, and then they just forgot to change the other scene to match it. he left the Wishwillow there, and it was like, it works, and just like left the house, and then maybe Ian was like...
01:09:49
Speaker
oh yeah okay I wish for billion dollars like you know by himself and I was like oh my god I have a billion dollars now like like maybe that I don't know it just seems so weird to me like it it definitely plays like a comedic bit more than a serious one right and the fact that they kill him off right after the fact tells us that like they have no interest in seeing through what's going to happen with this money a more interesting film would have incorporated the money into the plot you know I feel um and when it comes to Nikki's gonna get it at the end that's my headcanning There you go, right? How funny would it be if, after all... Take the money and run. He, like, walks out and goes, oh, we'll lose the money, you know? Jokes aside, right?
Horror Elements: Successes and Failures
01:10:25
Speaker
um I think that ah what we're getting at here is the worst elements of this film are when it plays, like, a traditional horror film, and that's a shame because most of what makes this movie work and what it does so well for the majority of its runtime is up-end traditional genre cliches, right?
Critique of Predictable Death Scene
01:10:43
Speaker
um It's the best, like,
01:10:46
Speaker
landmark in terms of like you know doing a movie that's like elevated horror or like um a horror movie of our moment right but like going back to the sarah death sequence right like the worst parts of this movie is when it's so expected right and we're we talked briefly about that death sequences i want to bring it back to that just for a moment because like it's not just that i knew that she was going to come in through the window and she was going to kill sarah it was the fact that like then we get like the brick in the head and we hang on for too long. Right. Where it's like, it feels like a bit. but We've got the camera on there. Yeah. And it's like, I don't know. Like it's, it feels like it's only there to shock us. Right. Rather than to play something that feels natural for what they've been setting up narratively. Right. So it's like, whenever it leans too much into like the whole, apparently there were more head smashes. Yeah. And the edit of them out. Yeah. Yeah.
01:11:37
Speaker
Yeah, well, to get the rating. so um the The head smash stuff didn't bother me. the ah i've figured that was where it was going, and I figured like there's going to be another one really gruesome thing.
Plot Weakness: Unrealistic Choices
01:11:54
Speaker
The thing that bothered me ah was the body being in the house like afterwards.
01:12:02
Speaker
Because I was like, to me, the natural... order of things would have been like we have to hide this body and i know it's like we're not working with somebody who is like thinking rationally because like she's possessed and she's crazy and she's obsessed or whatever but like to me even he would be able to say to her like we have to dump this body so for the body to be like back in the house like was just like okay like whatever um it was bothered me too too much but i was like this is clearly for like salaciousness and not like yeah it was It was weird. Like, I do like that she does things occasionally that are kind of, even from the straightforward perspective of what he wished her to be, are little inscrutable. Like, why did you dig up his cat and then cook And feed it him. And feed it to him. That's fucking... I like stuff like that, but the bringing the body back feels like that, but without...
01:12:59
Speaker
Like, that I don't know. There's too much else going on at that point. And the fact, I mean, her just, like, drawing on Sarah's tattoos and dressing like her was enough that we don't also just need the shock of the body there. She could have taken that. They could have shown her taking that dress off of her and then dumping the, you know what I mean? Like, like for her to bring her back to the house was weird to me. And the cat thing was weird. Clearly, it was just like, ooh, we're going to be gross for a minute. But it was like, why...
01:13:26
Speaker
Like, even if you were obsessed with someone on this, like, metaphysical level, like, what would feeding their cat... I could see the shrine thing. Like, oh, I just want to, like, honor something that would have wanted to... Pay tribute. Yeah. I took that a couple ways.
01:13:41
Speaker
i kind of I kind of felt like, you know, like, his because what what we're talking about is like, not necessarily like a person, not necessarily a demon, but like something that's inhabiting. It's like a tulpa or something.
01:13:53
Speaker
Yeah, like a tulpa. A tulpa is a great way because it's it's something that somebody willed into existence, right? So my I always read her actions as like trying to piece together what humanity is just based on like context
Character Actions and Misunderstandings
01:14:06
Speaker
clues. Yeah. And like to me, like when I see her cooking a cat and feeding it to him after the shrine, right? I feel as though she's trying to piece together what do humans do when they admire something, right? Do they preserve it or do they consume it so that becomes a part of them, right? And I feel like that's kind of a thing that she's getting at there, especially when she's bringing up the food critic thing, right? Like, oh, you love food, you love consuming. Maybe there's a thing that's happening there, right? And all I wanted to say to the food thing, just in general, cooking the cat sandwich, right?
01:14:36
Speaker
Hey, you know what, Bear? Maybe you're being dramatic. You know, maybe you try a couple bites of the cat sandwich, you know. Is it good? Does it taste like, oh, yeah, the disease in it would be worms. The cat's been in bed for like three days at best. The stomach will get rid of that stuff. It filters it out.
01:14:53
Speaker
Your body will work through, keep the nutrients it needs, and it will work through the rest. Yeah, this is the ah RFK Jr. diet, actually. That's what she's doing. She actually, she read it on Facebook. She's like, oh, Kat's actually really good. She should have been home watching Fox News all day when she sit sits there like drooling and shitting herself. She's doing that, but the TV's on and it's Fox News because that's how those people consume that. No, I think i think that read works of, like, she's, like, you know, not really human, and that's how she interprets But i think also any discrepancy in her behavior is, like, you know, yes, we do see at night when she asks, the real Nikki asks for Baird to kill her, but I think also there's any other, like...
01:15:36
Speaker
weird behavior can be interpreted as like the real Nikki trying to push through like when she's holding the pot initially I'm like oh was the real Nikki taking control for a second and trying to smash it and then she got frozen in that position you know like she was just desperate to try anything to get out and then also when she does like that weird
Nikki's Communication Attempts
01:15:57
Speaker
like you know when she's crying in the corner and then she comes up to him really quick and then does the like the walk with the walk backwards. I'm like, was the real Nikki quickly trying to run up on him? And then the you know the wish Nikki was like holding herself back. you know like That's why she's like so far like in the corner. you know So I'm like, maybe was the cat also just, because also in the same thing of that lunch she packed, there's the pictures of them together. There's a picture of her and it just says, not me. yeah So I'm like, oh, the real the real Nikki had control for a second enough to like write that. i liked I thought that was a really good little bit. Like, I liked that a lot. Like, you, not me.
01:16:35
Speaker
and then And then even Sarah's like, what the fuck that all about? like And he's like, oh. Oh, an inside joke. he yeah Yeah, inside joke. Yeah, it's so clear what that he knows that it's worked at that point. Like, that's way before the phone call or the rape scene. Like, he knows what he did.
01:16:51
Speaker
yeah i don't know she's just like that's just silly she's just screaming and clawing her way up from the depths of like whatever this is like it's so silly but but i liked that i did like that part but like the cat thing i was like okay we i i feel like it's like we need some gross out humor in here he ate the cheese you know it's like okay like let's calm down a little gross gross Yeah, like sketch humor transitioning into horror, like we've seen it a few times. I think like some of those like moments that don't work are that rubbing up against. But I do think despite of, you know, how dark and disturbing this movie is, there are more successful mergers of that kind of, you know, like, sick so sense of humor that that do feel more natural. I would say, like, besides, like, the very ending, ah like, the the party scene, for example, and, like, the awkward, how ah awkward and, like, uncomfortable that is, it, like, then starts to come around to, like, I don't know. I i did chuckle a little bit just at how I think I posted, like, yeah, this that party scene had, like, like demonic Tim Robinson sketch vibes. Oh, my God, he did.
01:18:03
Speaker
I think that's like the more successful merger of like the sketch comedy, the horror is like when he can make it part of what he's the thesis of what like what the film is trying to do.
01:18:15
Speaker
When he pulls her chair out. ah yeah You could hear a pin drop in my theater. Like the whole place was like holding its breath. And it was like, oh, God. But ah but I want to know what the Jenga piece said.
01:18:30
Speaker
Right. Because I'm like, i me I've never played because I don't know. Is that a typical way people play Jenga where there's like like dares or instructions on them? I've seen this let's play this. Yeah, I've seen this increasingly over the years where like you get a Jenga thing and you write something on it. I've never specifically played that myself, but like I have seen like.
01:18:52
Speaker
footage of this sort of thing at parties or whatever but uh but like it never shows what hers said so it was like was it like read something embarrassing from your phone was it like you know like like what could it have said besides that like I almost took it as like that, that like the prompt was that, that that wasn't even following the prompt that like almost, almost the the real Nikki was trying to break through, especially in terms of the text of the the story. It's like, you know, a brother in molesting a sister. Right. Well, it's really the sister molesting the brother. Oh, well. Like that. but it go Yeah. Yeah.
01:19:30
Speaker
But I think something like that, it was like she was trying to, like, plead for help or something. i don't know. Right. Yeah, I'm not really 100%. interesting because to me it read like...
Distorted Writing and Alternate Self
01:19:42
Speaker
this is the structure of something the real Nikki would have written, but like twisted by by obsession Nikki. Like, you know, but like a Hansel and Gretel sort of fanfic thing that could be like maybe a little racy and stuff, but but went like a little too far, to put it lightly. Like, you know, like it's through the lens of like crazy Nikki or a freaky Nikki, you know what i mean? But I want to know what the...
01:20:10
Speaker
ah Yeah. Jenga P said. i want to know it said, too. I need one outlet to ask. Just one. It's weird no one's asked him. I know. It really annoys me.
01:20:22
Speaker
I really like this scene. If we're going to zoom out just a little bit too, like I like the scene from the context of, because obviously the best horror and any drama is just mind on reality. Right. I feel like if you were to view this scene as like the times that you've had the friend group hangouts and then like the new couple comes, you know, and it's just a disaster. Right. You guys have been in those positions. Oh yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Well, especially the couple where you're like, I don't know that they should be together.
01:20:50
Speaker
it' This looks bad. Exactly. like All of that is definitely cooked into this scene. Right. And I don't think that many horror films have concocted exactly this, you know, degree of ingredients. It was just a unique thing. Right. I just like the fact that this movie is going to, you know, spaces that like are human, regular everyday, you know, awkwardness or whatever. Right. But it's finding new ways, fresh ways to mine terror out of it. I got it to tip my hat, you know, in terms of good horror filmmaking.
01:21:21
Speaker
I also like that there's a girl in the background whenever goes so wide shot who's like, the whole time Nikki's reading that story, she's like nodding. She's like kind of into it. She's sitting at the bar, right? She's sitting one of the bars. It's kind of like up until she drags the chair, then you don't see the smile on on that girl's face anymore. that It's got too uncomfortable. I 100% clocked that girl too. i was like, this girl's freaky. Like she's into it. She's like, yeah, girl. Go off. Write your Hansel and Gretel fanfic, girl.
01:21:54
Speaker
Like, finger snaps. Like, snap, snap, snap. thought that was so funny. She's like, i want to hear the rest. That sounds good. i also like the guy who, like, got up to sit next to Nikki. And, like, the rest of the time, he's just like, oh that was a mistake. Like, the look on his face was just, like, of horror. And it's so funny if you look at him. Because he's just like, why did I do that? But then it's, like, too awkward to get back up.
01:22:18
Speaker
You're just stuck.
Tense Party Scene and Social Dynamics
01:22:19
Speaker
Very, very funny. I thought that whole scene was like... But then she smashes her face and they take her to the hospital and the hospital's like, don't want anything to do with that. I'm like, I feel like she's on her right mind. That was weird. Like, hospitals... Even if the patient is declaring, am fine, don't need attention. Like, you know, don't really need to into whole thing. You know, a long time ago, there may have been some kind of self-harm episode, but where I took myself then immediately to the hospital. But even if you've done that, you have initiated some kind of damage to yourself and you have to, you get involuntary. Well, I guess it varies by state. where they can involuntarily check you in but i think if you're a danger to yourself they have to had a friend who was like well you can't like involuntarily like treat somebody like if they if they decline treatment but i was like okay but like she's clearly like unwell so like isn't there like i've been watching a lot of er so i'm like trying to yeah what would doug ross do in this situation What would Dr. Mark be? How would Dr. John Carter handle this or like the pit or whatever? But like, I don't know. That part was just odd to me. But like, also, it would be incredibly funny if they were like, this bitch is fucked up and we are not paid enough to do. Like, just go. Like, that would be kind of funny, too. But like, I don't know. I thought it was weird. But the party scene, I thought, was like, it was so tense, but it was a lot of fun. Like,
01:23:47
Speaker
You know, even even her smashing her face, it's just so shocking to be like, you look and she's like, I'm fine. And it's like, you know, obviously like kind of been meme-ified now, but like, but I did think that that scene worked on a lot of levels, except for the fact that I wanted to see what the Jenga said. But like, I don't know, it was just kind of like a little bit of levity because it's just so tense that everybody kind of falls into like laughing about it. You know what I mean? Right. In a different way than like the car scene or like any of the other stuff. so I feel like that that that like party scene is the best scene in the movie, really. It's like when all of the things are kind of coming to a head. And I do think that that like like like the classic frown image that we've been seeing. you know so she's so expressive. like I know, she's like the Jim Carrey of her generation. Yeah, she's so good at just, like, expressions. And, and ah like, we didn't even touch touch on it too much, but, like, the scenes where she's in the shadows, right, and you can barely see her face. Like, the the theater was obviously so dark and I couldn't see her face, but I could make out what she was doing with her face in those situations. and Yeah. That she was really going for it, right? So I just, again, got to really, get like, give credit to her and how she's controlling the frame in those scenes. And then also just to kind of go back to what we were talking about with the hospital, Um, I, I thought that there were going to be a bit more of a beat where they were going to, like, maybe the hospital was going to think that Barrett had done something to her, you know? Domestic violence implication. Yeah.
01:25:14
Speaker
Right. Because the weekly we've already brought up the idea that the friend group is questioning whether or not he's being abusive. I felt like, you know, you would maybe want to dig into that a bit more from other angles as well. If you wanted to, you know, explore that as a horror thing, you know, but that's just, you know, my point on that. Yeah, yeah. I did think the kind of like, ah we think you're taking advantage of her is sort of like dealt with oddly. And maybe it's just like my own friend groups. But like, if I thought someone was taking advantage of someone else, like I would not still be trying to go to trivia with them.
01:25:47
Speaker
Yeah. Like at this point in my life, it does not take much for me to be like, oh, you fucking suck. And, and ah you know, I'm going to be vocal about this and then I'm going to cut ties with this. So, like, I thought it was kind of interesting that they were like, I don't know, we kind of feel like you're like abusing a mentally ill woman. And he's like, no, I'm not. They're like, OK. Yeah. And it's shocking that the two people that are are levying this thing on him, right, are is, ah you know, the friend that is, you know, possibly was romantically entangled with this victim
Awkward Friend Interactions and Abuse Suspicions
01:26:19
Speaker
in question. Right. And somebody who knows this but is still attracted to them.
01:26:24
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Like they knows that that's a possibility, but it's like, I don't care. i don't care. I still want to be with this guy. It's what makes that element of the film weird to me. Yeah, it's a little weird. I don't know if that's just like the yeah the film's overall cynicism of like that the the most that they object to, like they bring it up and it's mostly just like they don't like the vibe that that brings. So that's why she shouldn't come to the party. You're really ruining trivia night. Yeah, like, just don't bring her because it looks bad. You know, like, ah that that was like, the overall message that they were giving. Not like that. the Like, yeah, this is fucked up what you're doing. It's just like, hi yeah, man, you're gonna make us look bad by association.
01:27:05
Speaker
I guess now that we're talking about it, it does kind of work for me. I'm going to take it back because it is kind of like a we're embarrassed by this. Like this is affecting us. And it's like, ah all right, I guess like you could still like whatever. Like, you know, she he ends up bringing her and he's like, I knew you were going her stuff. But it is very like self. It's coming from like less a like we care about Nikki and don't want her to be abused. And more of a this is really like harshing our vibe. um So I guess i guess um now that I'm rethinking it, I think it does work for me a little bit. But it didn't in the moment. But now that I'm like thinking about it, because it is like they're just again, nobody can say what they mean. That's the closest we get to anyone saying what they mean. Like we think you're taking advantage of her.
01:27:46
Speaker
And he's just like, no, no. OK, well, i don't know. She's in bed she sucks to be around because she's mentally ill, which is like, OK, you guys will just suck. Yeah. Just like Bear refuses to accept any responsibility. The friend group overall is similarly like, well, we just don't want to be associated with that. Look, so like we're washing our hands of this. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Just like stay away.
01:28:09
Speaker
They don't want any kind of culpability. they don't want they They want some kind of scenario where it all goes back to normal. right They yeah want complicated. right Because again, these are people who are in the same place out of necessity, who are friends out of necessity, who aren't looking to change their sort of scenario. right so like to them like they're They're making the same calculation that Bear was before he was asking out Nikki. right They don't want to ruin the the vibes, right? They don't want to, you know, burst the bubble. And the reality is is that the bubble is going to burst one of these days, right? And in one way or another. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
01:28:42
Speaker
You're not going to always have your, we all work together. all, we all ah we all do to do our extracurricular activities together. We all like and sleep with each other. Like eventually someone is going to move or someone is going to get a better job or someone's going to settle it down and have a family. Like when I got together with my husband, he had a friend group from college. and And they all live here in Southern California. And they were very upset that he was like, well, no, like Colleen's moving in with me and we're getting married.
01:29:14
Speaker
And I was coming with, you know, a kid already in the mix. And then we had our kid and they were just like, Okay, but like, what about the vibes? Like, what about parking at your house? and How does that affect us, the group? And like, literally, a few of them just completely stopped talking to him. And he was like, well, oh my son they don't have a place to drink and get fucking, because like the year we were long distance,
01:29:37
Speaker
They were over all the time. You know, they they'd have like a three day party over the like long weekends. Like they would have been here this weekend. And it was just like and and and, you know, I'm not dragging them under the bus because back in Boston, I have friends like that, too. There's a guy that I'm friends with who is the same exact person we were when we were 17 years old.
01:29:54
Speaker
And we are, you know, pushing 50 now. And he's still drunk all the time. High on coke all the time. Lives for free in his brother's brown. So like like has not good work. Yeah. Has not ah his own bubble. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, well, we all got married and moved and like had lives and it's just gonna happen eventually. I mean, I see it like even with my older son's friends, you know, they come over all the time and stuff. And I'm like, this is not always going to be this way.
01:30:25
Speaker
And he's like, well, I know that. So it's like, well, enjoy it now because like, I don't, I'm not trying to bum you out, but like, you'll all eventually spread out. you' I'm not saying you won't be friends anymore, but like, they will not always be crammed in your room, hanging out. Like they'll get an apartment or they'll, you know, and it's just like, these kids do not want this to happen.
01:30:44
Speaker
They just want it to be trivia night and working together and all romantically entangled with each other. And it's like well, that's just not reality. So yeah. One these going have to grow up, you're going to to become Andy Richter and you're going to have buy a surprisingly successful music store. Overstaffed music store. So it was like, he did, ah he did sell Wayne that guitar because it's the same guitar. From Wayne's World. Yeah. Yeah. ah and ah So, like, maybe they got some, like, you know, residuals for that or something. Oh, yeah, it's still paying out. Yeah, yeah it's been decades. they he's been He's been bankrolling them ever since with his success with Wayne. Like, it's just so funny, but like...
01:31:26
Speaker
it's like patsas deli right like in new york where it's like oh this is where harry met sally this is where they ate the sandwich yeah yeah yeah you know this is to have you ever seen wayne's world uh anyway but like yeah it's just it's just so funny like that bubble's popping and unfortunately it popped in like the worst way possible for them so yeah they're all dead or traumatized uh And no one wants to do anything until it's far too late, which I kind of, I want to go to, to, to the ending. Cause I've seen some people try to give bear credit for like, well, he did eventually do the right thing and
Bummer Ending and Lack of Redemption
01:32:01
Speaker
kill himself. I'm like, no, he didn't. He changed his mind. He was going to change his mind. if that, if he hadn't been interrupted, he couldn't even follow through.
01:32:10
Speaker
i can't even kill himself. Right. Right, right. He's, oh, I know. and Like, I made that joke, too, because I have, like, really chronic back issues, so I am on opiates for that. ah Like, prescribed. And I was taking one when, like, his cat, when he's like, oh, the Oxycodone. I was like, ooh, I feel called out. But I was like, the least believable part of this movie is that he would have all these bottles of painkillers and just, like, have them. Just sitting in his, like, that would never happen to me. i would take them. Yeah.
01:32:40
Speaker
it's like Yeah, they'd be gone. they'd be long gone. Or he should be selling them. he should be a he should he should be a trap house. Grandma's trap house. Yeah. yeah what and What do you want to do, Barry? I want to be a drug dealer. so If he was selling them, he could get a new cat. He could fix the broken medicine cabinet. Like, he'd have some money to play around with. But, but ah yeah. like And then there'd already be a gun at his place, probably. You know, you don't have to explain the gun. You're like, he just has one. but i see he right Right next to the Scarface poster. Right. He's like, I love Scarface. Make him one of those guys.
01:33:14
Speaker
Like, you're right, though. Like, he can't even kill himself properly because he tries to kill himself. And it's not even you know, it's not to, like, set her free. You know, it's just fucking yeah yeah I don't want to deal with any of this anymore. so The consequences are catching up. He does not want that responsibility. He's like, ah no, thank you.
01:33:30
Speaker
He's still chickens out. He still tries to make himself throw out. Stupid. he's He's only interrupted by the One Wish Willow, right? And, like, and the the my like I already said before that the Sarah stuff was my least favorite part of the film, but this is also another part of the film that I kind of rub against. And it's the sense that, like, I agree that all of this stuff is within character for him. That being said, I wish that, like...
01:33:57
Speaker
he didn't die i wish that it was a role reversal I think that he should have been trapped in some kind of parallel existence whether or not his body still existed in some kind of you know wish willow form right I I just feel as though the idea that he does die right the fact that he does leave without seeing the consequences that he gets off scots free you mean like yeah Yeah, kind of. Well, not scot-free. He did die, right? But at the same time... he doesn't have to worry about the trail of bodies and all that stuff. You know, like, he's he's he's' clean of that.
01:34:28
Speaker
he He did a lot of shit. and And, like, you know, if we're talking about horror movies as an act of, like, you know, judgment or, you know... were we're trying to get revenge or something. i In the, you know, cheesy exploitation sense, I would like him to kind of have more of a, you know, comeuppance for this. ah But I get what the movie's doing. I don't, I'm not holding it against it too much. It doesn't, you know, hold me back from liking it as much as I still do. It's just like one of those things where it's like, I wish he got it a bit worse, you know?
01:34:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do kind of wish he had, ah there had been some sort of comeuppance there. Like, if she had been set free and then, like, it looked like he did all those crimes, you know what I mean, or whatever. But i mean exactly I think that's too easy, though. I think it's too easy and too satisfying. Like, ending on a bummer ending is, I think, always a little braver than ending with, like, a nice, clean, like, because we have no idea. What is this woman going to do?
01:35:24
Speaker
Like, is she just going to leave? Like, but there's plenty of people who are like, oh, she's been acting crazy for weeks. Like, she's at that party, stuff like that. Like, is she going to take that billion dollars and fucking take off? Because that's what I would do. yeah yeah she can't stick around she gotta get out of yeah but like but like you know like it ah she's probably just fucked like yeah i'm sure some you know what mean it's like in reality like if someone heard a gunshot here in my neighborhood the cops would be called you know what i mean so it's just i don't know like uh i think ending on the bummer ending was was the right choice but there is the impetus of wanting to be like
01:36:01
Speaker
Just like, oh man, it would have been so cool if he lived. If he had been trapped in the Wish version of himself, because then like you could have like an even more dark ending where it's like you see them live out a life together where they're both trapped. And then maybe he dies just of old age or some disease or something. And then she wakes up and she like has lost years. I would love to see what it would look like with the two Wish versions of themselves loving each other. Because, like, would it yeah cancel out the craziness? And would they just be like...
01:36:33
Speaker
in love with each other you what mean would they just be like they wouldn't have any reason to kill other people because there wouldn't be like any other interest in anyone else right so like you don't even have to do that it's like would it be a chaotic good instead of chaotic evil like i would love to see that just like some extra feature where it's like this is what it would have looked like you know what i mean but just stretch the clip like five seconds longer and he's just going like make me more of that cat you know i remember that cat sandwich you made me a few weeks ago I loved it. Let's make that for dinner. I'm a little nippy. I'm little nippy. Can you eat that sandwich? Yeah, no, it's... ah And then the cat's what kills him. He dies from eating the cat. Oh, that's what it is. It's the parasites he gets when eating the cat. That's what get him in the end. Yeah. um But what i I do like about the ending and this idea of like, you know, like how, what's the immediate circumstance? That's an interesting question. I also like the question of like, how does this impact the rest of her life, right? Imagine the the weeks that she lost control of her body and this happened, right? The trauma that that induces, right? I do like that the film ends off on just her crying, right? And it is on the screen in the sense that, you know, you do sit with the implication of that situation.
01:37:49
Speaker
scenario right um i i just wanted to see because it's not like it was a fugue state and she came to and she doesn't remember what happened it seemed like she was a passenger trapped you know like she's there she's aware of what's been happening to her and that's why like any time she got control she immediately tried to kill herself or maybe even harm him during some of those nighttime scenes where it's like i gotta get out of here i think she was definitely like conscious of everything that was happening so yeah Big time.
01:38:20
Speaker
Crazy.
Emotional Reactions and Film Impact
01:38:22
Speaker
na movie. movie yeah It was really good. Like, yeah, it it it shook me. I had to just drive around for a little bit afterwards. Like I said, i was I was very upset afterwards. I was physically shaking. I had to take a kick of breath before I drove home. I saw it by myself. i was like, I'm taking myself out on a date.
01:38:40
Speaker
And, um you know, I got dinner and then I went to it and I was like, oh, my God. To watch Faces of Death to calm down. That's crazy. The fact that that calmed you down. A good movie.
01:38:51
Speaker
Faces of Death was good, but it was very goofy. Like, I had to pause it and be like, do you even know what Faces of Death is? And my son was like, no. And I'm like, okay, well, it was this movie, like blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, I had to give him backstory. But like, it's a very goofy, like, what if someone was recreating Faces of Death? Right, like, and I liked it. I thought everyone was great in it. I thought it was very silly. But I was just like, this is a silly movie versus. Well, the fact that a TikTok-like site even had paid human content moderators, like, are full staffs. no but a but a full staff like that many people or is it just like two people who oversee an ai no okay well there is definitely an ai yeah element for sure but they do hire people for those positions i i just wanted to say this because like i i do think obsession and uh faces of death are related in the sense that a lot of that film is about like survivors right people who go through these things and i actually think that faces of death is a way more impactful film i think it's a better film than obsession i think that what has to say about society is actually a lot more you know it has more to say than obsession does and i do think it's weird that obsession and uh faces of death both have villains that look like uh charlie kirk it's a canny resemblance yeah yeah i think an obsession little bit more for sure but but i i do see that and that's just that's just really funny
01:40:20
Speaker
and not Oh, faces of death was fun, but I wish it went further with the absurd. Cause it's already like of the, like when did the kills started trending and you see scenes where she's seeing people out in the world. Like I, I kind of wanted like, just like montages of seeing around the world, people reacting to these, these kills. And it like, so, I mean, I know it's a small, you know, they have this, they have a certain budget. They can't, they can't totally go so big, but I was like, no, go bigger.
01:40:46
Speaker
yeah it It was a fun movie, but here's the thing. I will not think about that movie much, like, for the rest of my life, probably. But I will probably think of Obsession fairly. Like, I feel like Obsession will come up more than Faces of Death.
01:41:00
Speaker
Just like as a visceral experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Faces Death was fun, but like how many fun horror movies have I seen over the last few years that like I don't really even think about it anymore? So plenty of them. So yeah, it is what it is.
01:41:12
Speaker
ah It was I had a good time. Yeah. And I did like that. I was like, can you it was like literally 2 a.m. I think I went to bed at almost five that morning and I was just like, will you watch this with me? And he's like, yeah, sure. you okay I'm not critiquing you what time you watch the film. I think 2 a.m. for a Phase of Death was perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was funny, too, because he was like, hey, that's that girl from Euphoria, which is not a show I watch. I'm like, I guess. Well, Doug and I are actually covering Euphoria in the most recent season. Oh, my God. So, like and unfortunately, we're very familiar with Barbie. Well, she's not even, she's only in 1.5 seasons. Yeah, yeah. She knew better.
01:41:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, good for her. And it was good. for She was great and in Fates' death. thought she was great. Her and, uh, is it Darcy Montgomery or however you say the killer's name? He was very funny. Like, I just feel like when would he went to kill, like, the the weather guy or it's like a so a guy who's on the news and then he's pretending to be from the neighborhood. And he's like, yeah. love his dorkies. Like, um, hi. Hi. My girlfriend, Tall Beth. ah Tall Beth. Yeah, Tall. That's her. Yeah, yeah. he's kind of hunched over. yeah He's like a Simpsons character, like a Simpsons nerd or something. Yeah. I thought he was great. He yeah he was a lot of fun. So, yeah.
01:42:34
Speaker
Yeah. All right.
Guest's Upcoming Appearances and Social Media
01:42:37
Speaker
ah Well, thank you so much for for coming on Talking Obsession with us, Colleen. ah Do you have any plugs? Sure. you have any plugs ah It depends on when this goes up.
01:42:47
Speaker
I am ah this upcoming weekend. I'm working Monsterpalooza at the Fangoria booth, as I usually do. ah We should be at Midsummer Scream and also PPCon. So if you're at the Southern California area for those conventions, come see me at the Fangoria booth. where I will be selling shirts and new subscriptions and old issues.
01:43:08
Speaker
Other than that, I am going to be starting my own podcast, but I don't want to plug it yet because ah it's in the very beginning stages. I'm setting up ah you know guests and and we'll be recording soon and stuff. So I guess maybe keep an eye out for that. But other than that, you could just follow me. like I'm still on Twitter, Colleen Carney. And I'm over on Blue Sky under the same handle as well. So I don't love Blue Sky, but I am making an effort.
01:43:38
Speaker
so My Blue Sky accounts collect and dust. i have not made an effort. Well, yeah you know what? It's funny. It's like... for For the conversation of people on Twitter being like, Blue Sky sucks. The people on Blue Sky never shut the fuck up about Twitter.
01:43:56
Speaker
And they're like, Twitter? I was just like, you know, you guys are just fucking obsessed with Twitter as Twitter is with Blue Sky. And you're not making any cases for yourself. It is a very fucking boring situation. And it was like, you know, Twitter is like, I had to mute the terms Nazi bar.
01:44:12
Speaker
ah ah the bad place. Hell's sight. It's like, yeah, it's very much like tepid liberal 2016 shit. And I'm just like, can do you guys have any interests like beyond obsessing over who is on Twitter still? Like, I don't think so. Like, at least Twitter is not constantly fucking like, ah, the dork's on Blue Sky. Like, it does happen, but not with the same intensity. And I'm just like, get over it. But anyway, I am so trying to make an effort, but, you know, I'm on those two sites is what I'm trying to say. Right.
01:44:49
Speaker
ah You're just saying what we were all thinking, right? Because yeah nobody likes a social media site that feels like the loser's table in high school, right? There's shit about everybody. right One of my friends was like, I'm starting a social media site where it's illegal to talk about social media on it. And i was like, that's exactly what everyone means. Like, stop talking about the other site and talk about fucking anything else. Did you not see a movie this week or something? Like, talk about obsession. Do you have a life or interest? Maybe talk about those. Talk about those things. Whatever. So, yeah. So, um but I will keep you informed about the podcast thing. so
01:45:26
Speaker
Well, looking forward to updates on that and hope you have us on. Yeah, absolutely. I will message you guys because ah I think the topic you'll like. It's it's not super original, but i I just want to yap about stuff. So, whatever. Love yapping about movies. It's one of favorite things to do.
01:45:43
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, of course. Tony, do you have anything you want to plug? um I don't know. like ah Doug and I are both on Unsource Wall Radio every Sunday. We're wrapping up Children of the Corn. So I'll shout that out. And also I'll shout out Two Cent Film Critic. I'm going to be recording an episode on Larry Cohen's special effects this Wednesday. So yeah, keep your eyes peeled for those episodes coming soon.
01:46:08
Speaker
And just stay tuned to this feed. We've been doing a recording frenzy and, you know, it's summer movie season. So there's going lots of cool stuff here. So, you know, ah check back in regularly. And that's that's all I got.
01:46:22
Speaker
Bye. Thanks, guys. ah bubble