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14. Why More Companies Should Be Hiring Trans Leaders
24 Plays9 days ago
Many organizations are still trying to understand trans and non-binary people in the workplace and how to support them while building more inclusive leadership. Conversations about inclusion at work often focus on policies, barriers or how to avoid getting things wrong.
Yet trans leadership talent is rarely part of the conversation.
In this episode of Gender in Focus, we explore why more companies should be hiring trans and non-binary leaders and what workplaces can gain when they recognize this often overlooked talent pool.
We discuss how lived experience can shape leadership styles, problem-solving, emotional intelligence, and approaches to supporting diverse teams. We also unpack the striking tension that many trans professionals have high levels of education while facing significantly higher unemployment, and what this reveals about untapped leadership potential.
If you are interested in diversity hiring, inclusive leadership, workplace culture, or understanding trans inclusion beyond surface-level awareness, this episode offers practical insight into how a strengths-based approach can change how organisations recognise talent, develop leaders, and build stronger teams.
🎧 Listen now to explore how recognizing trans leadership can support innovation, retention, and more resilient workplace cultures.
Topics include:
- Trans and non-binary people in leadership roles
- Hiring and supporting trans and non-binary employees
- Trans inclusion in the workplace
- Developing trans talent and inclusive leadership pipelines
- Why highly educated trans professionals face higher unemployment
- Innovation and problem-solving shaped by lived experience
- Moving from deficit thinking to strengths-based DEI
- Building inclusive workplace culture and psychological safety
- The business and cultural impact of diverse leadership
Pride at Work's THRIVE programme: http://prideatwork.ca/programs/thrive/
Recommended
Transcript
Trans People in the Workplace: Barriers vs. Strengths
00:00:05
Speaker
A lot of the time when trans people come up in workplace conversations, it's through the lens of barriers or challenges or what organizations need to fix in order to be more supportive.
00:00:15
Speaker
And those conversations are so important and are definitely needed. At the same time, when the focus stays only on the struggle, it means that we don't spend as much time noticing the strengths that trans people are already bringing to their roles.
00:00:28
Speaker
Different life experiences can shape how someone understands leadership, how they support others and how they approach problem solving or change. And in leadership positions, those perspectives can have an incredible impact on the wider environment of a workplace.
Kai from Transfocus Consulting on Trans Leadership
00:00:40
Speaker
Today, we are talking about trans people in leadership positions and who better to talk about that than the president of Transfocus Consulting. Hello, Kai. Hello, hello. How are you doing?
00:00:53
Speaker
I'm doing so well. How are you? Fantastic. it's I'm also doing well. Things are you know like getting lighter and brighter and you know in terms of weather and seasonal change and whatnot. So it's always very exciting to witness. And yeah, I'm having a great time.
00:01:10
Speaker
I'm so glad. Hey, can I tell you something? Nothing to do with what we're talking about. I decided to put little mini um disco balls around my living room. Okay. It creates this cool light. So like when the sun, because it's getting really bright now, when the sun comes through my window, it creates this cool like lighting in my living room. I'm so happy about it. It's like only little, little disco balls.
00:01:36
Speaker
Sure. But yeah, it just looks really cute. So yeah.
Trans Leadership: Beyond Frontline Positions
00:01:39
Speaker
gives me in a sense of like etherealness you know he just light play and dancing okay so forget about that let's talk about trans people thank you for sharing well i'm glad that you're enjoying the sun anyway so when we talk about trans inclusion at work sometimes it it sort of comes across like people are imagining ah supporting trans people or um so especially maybe somebody who's earlier on in their career so they're sort of needing leadership support in so in certain aspects but trans people are also leading teams they exist in leadership spaces and so especially if they're kind of holding significant responsibility themselves I wanted to start there and what the reality of um the what the experiences of trans people are in workplaces beyond just being frontline staff really Right. Yeah,
Challenges and Contributions of Trans Leaders
00:02:31
Speaker
it's such a good ah an important starting place because as with any other community or group, there's a vast diversity of folks, right? And we certainly can it acknowledge that there are challenges, systemic, societal, and you know they plague all kinds of people of trans you know history or status. And so you know it's OK to acknowledge those, but also not to lose sight of the fact that there's so much that either trans and non-binary folks are doing or that they offer or that they are, especially in a workplace context. And that includes, among others, being in leadership positions. And that could be at the managerial level.
00:03:17
Speaker
plenty of trans and non-binary folks, along with queer folks as well, right? Who occupy this kind of middle management section and are quite powerful um movers and shakers and makers of things and are an integral part of the workplace community um and the work that gets done. So I think it's important to
Fostering Inclusion and Equity in Work Environments
00:03:40
Speaker
kind of keep that in mind.
00:03:41
Speaker
um If an organization hasn't already experienced somebody in leadership, but it also extends to the executive level as well, as in there are vice presidents, there are even CEOs, although maybe not as much. um And these are really important leadership positions that trans and non-binary folks meet. assume and also largely driven by the type of educational background they have, skills that they a hold, and ah positions that they've held you know throughout the organization or in other organizations. And so it's just like really important to keep that in mind that while
00:04:24
Speaker
there is a disempowered position that trans people face or have experienced, but also in positions of power. So I think that's important to remember. Yeah, of course. And I wanted to go into, like, obviously we're we're framing this or we're coming at this from the perspective of how brilliant trans people can be in in positions of leadership. Obviously, anyone can be a good a good leader. But there is something unique about the experience of trans people that um puts them with a different sort of frame of mind when they approach leadership often. Obviously, hashtag not all trans people. But sure ah
Creativity and Problem-Solving Impact
00:05:00
Speaker
when it comes to um developing this sort of understanding of equity or um
00:05:06
Speaker
I mean, a lot of the cases it's kind of out of necessity, but the way that it then shapes how someone approaches leadership is is a really cool thing. And I was wondering if you could discuss that or talk about that.
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So it's in my observation. So it's not like we have tons of data on this, although there are pockets here here and there. i so I always want to preface what place I'm providing this information from.
00:05:31
Speaker
ah But anecdotally in the 10 years of work that we've done across so many sectors and industries and sizes of companies and whatnot, we've been able to observe and also to ah survey trans and non-binary folks. And what we find time and time again is that trans leaders have a particular awareness of issues, their own primarily, you know trans and non-binary issues, but also other equity groups. They're aware of people of color, people with disability, people with immigration status, and are able to, because they have had to do it themselves with their own issues, translate that into the working condition and will
00:06:18
Speaker
work quite hard sometimes out like off the side of their desk or take additional steps that aren't really required as part of the work, but they feel ah motivated or inspired because they don't want people to have a shitty experience at work. Right. Right. And so it's really quite simple.
00:06:38
Speaker
and And so they can ah be end up being quite creative in their problem solving and motivated to to create change that really makes a material difference for people, trans and non-binary folks ah that are their colleagues, but then also um and other equity groups. And so it it kind of raises the bar for the organization and what's possible and can inspire other leaders to be like, oh, I didn't know that I could do this. And it's actually really impactful because not to say all trans leaders, but certainly a lot of them are admired by their cisgender reportees.
00:07:18
Speaker
And And in some
Personal Challenges and Empathy in Leadership
00:07:20
Speaker
cases, even like deeply appreciated because they kind of are tapping into this deeper thing that is so necessary in the workplace to have a sense of belonging, well-being, be productive, whatnot. So right those are some of the dynamics at play.
00:07:37
Speaker
Obviously, trans people have a really um strong first-hand experience of being placed in very narrow boxes or roles or you know expectations about how they should be behaving or what they should be doing. And...
00:07:54
Speaker
I have found I'm curious about your experience here about how having that experience and then sort of breaking out of that then can often influence the way that they recognize and nurture the individual people in front of them for who they are not what they should be or how they nurture that talent or um those skills in in others in a way that's really expansive.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's such a good point that, ah you know, of course, not every trans leader or manager, but certainly a lot of them are able to understand and appreciate. It doesn't feel good to be pigeonholed into any particular thing, whether it's based on gender or any other factor.
00:08:41
Speaker
And so appreciate the kind of individual gifts that people bring to an organization and are motivated to figure those out for one and then do the necessary work to you know connect um people that report to them to what they want to do in a way that kind of streamlines and makes things smoother and more possible. And of course, like that's within reason. Obviously, people are hired for positions and whatnot, and work needs to get done. But there's this kind of almost invisible um you know pathway that's created um when trans and non-binary folks are involved as leaders because they know it feels awful not with from their own trans experience not
Resourcefulness and Innovation in Trans Leadership
00:09:30
Speaker
to be in like the right
00:09:33
Speaker
path, if you will. And so it really does um make for a much better work experience for somebody to take on that extra effort in order to do that. Now, I shouldn't expect that to be the case always with everyone, but um We have observed it and it's really interesting how it's it's connected to one's own trans experience that that is then also given forward or to the to the employees as well more generally.
00:10:05
Speaker
I was wondering if you could talk about, like we've mentioned in, um we did an episode last year that's just popping into my head that I can't remember what we were talking about, but I remember you talking about how innovative trans people are. Again, obviously we're talking about more general as opposed to every single individual trans person, but there is a level of outside of the box thinking or innovation that is really exciting when it comes to what trans people can bring.
00:10:30
Speaker
look Yeah, I would say given the experience of ah many trans and non-binary folks in our personal lives, we've had to be very resourceful, very creative, because there's all these barriers. like Pretty much at every turn, there's something. And we're just having to like craft ways of oh jumping over or getting around or whatever the case may be. And that's like its own skill set that we've like absorbed. And then we can, if we wish, to apply that within a workplace context. And it can show up in so many different ways. I mean, we've um you know observed trans leaders creating whole other lines of services or products that weren't there before.
00:11:18
Speaker
ah Integral in bringing them about because they don't accept the status quo. They ask questions. It's not that they're pushing back against anything of the status quo. It's just more of a curiosity. Like, does it have to be this way? what if we did it this way? And what about that over there? Or I've heard this within my community, what if we were able to do it and how it could benefit more than just trans and non-binary folks? So they're able to make all these, we're able to make all these connections that are maybe not apparent to everyone. And that can create like real tangible impact in an organization.
00:11:56
Speaker
And also just how we associate with one another. It doesn't just have to be you know the the kind of benefits to the bottom line. It could be the culture as well and how to make it better.
00:12:10
Speaker
And there's also a sense of, um and we certainly do this here at Trans Focus, of the the power of exploration, right? So like when we're figuring ourselves out, some of us need to explore.
00:12:26
Speaker
And so we try on different things. How do I feel about it? Is there a measurable impact? You know, I mean, I might've gone a little far with my color coded spreadsheet. I didn't want to bring that up, but yes. But you know, some people are more so systematic than others. um But, you know, we've had to check things out because we've not been given a template.
00:12:49
Speaker
And
Investing in Trans Leadership
00:12:50
Speaker
so we're trying to figure it out as we go. And similarly, that approach is very powerful within a business context, especially research and development and other areas where you might, the company might not be ready to commit to a direction, but at the very least you want to take a look at it you know? so yeah. Yeah.
00:13:12
Speaker
Maybe it's something, maybe it's not, but at least you've tried it to rule it out or it might like unlock a bunch of things, right? So I would say, of course, trans and non-binary folks aren't the only innovators. I would say other equity groups have similar types of challenges that they have to overcome that they can apply to the workplace.
00:13:35
Speaker
But certainly I would say that's one of the big gifts of trans and non-binary folks. and makes a huge difference in ah companies and organizations that are willing to support them, right? So it goes both ways, right?
00:13:47
Speaker
yeah Yes, that's fair. And so with that then, having organizations that are willing to support trans people in in their sort of leadership roles, what um what can or how can organizations...
00:14:01
Speaker
better recognize and support trans leadership, but like the potential um behind trans leadership without making it feel sort of either overly scrutinized or a bit sort of tokenistic. that Does that make sense?
00:14:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's a very important point, wanting to balance, right? ah always want to make sure that ah you know it's it's on offer but not required. right So it's recognizing that trans and non-binary leaders may have barriers and to understand them in a more tangible way and to have an open door to talk about those challenges, especially coming from the executive level that can be very powerful.
00:14:44
Speaker
to be like, okay, the the executive leadership understands that I am a um ah like an important leader in this organization and wants to invest in a very unique, perhaps in a unique way um that you know other leaders are not facing. And so that conversation can be very important.
00:15:06
Speaker
Now, not everybody wants to have a conversation or feels that they have anything to share, which is fine. um But i would also offer or suggest that there are programs that, um like, say, for example, Pride at Work has a series that they do every year for developing queer leadership, including trans and non-binary folks.
00:15:28
Speaker
So it's called Thrive and we can put a link in the show notes. And I think that's a really powerful investment in ah queer and trans leadership that, you know, they can talk amongst themselves and talk about the specific things and what they want to do to address that.
00:15:45
Speaker
and There could also be a role for the organization. i can't remember exactly how it's set up, but it's a really important tool as ah as something to offer, right? In case that's of need to the trans or non-binary leader.
00:16:01
Speaker
um And then to back them up in moments where perhaps others are questioning their leadership or their personhood, right? And really showing that you're willing to go to bat for that person, um that you're not just kind of leaving them hanging to defend themselves, which can so often happen.
00:16:21
Speaker
So those are a few kind of concrete ways that organizations and the executive leadership can support a trans or non-binary leader. Given that
Educational Attainment vs. Employment Discrimination
00:16:30
Speaker
there are so many positives that can come from having um trans leadership, trans people ah have so much so much that they can bring to the table and yet are so often overlooked, um especially when we think about like one thing that you were talking to me about before was about education levels and how um trans people are ah generally higher have higher levels of education and yet are also have higher levels of unemployment. And so I was wondering if you could go into that and that kind of balance and and what's going on there.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah when we tell this story like a statistical story, if you will, um people are really surprised within organizations that the unemployment rate is, you know it varies depending on the jurisdiction or region, but in some like a survey of 27,000 trans people in the United States, The unemployment rate is 15% average across all the different experiences.
00:17:29
Speaker
When you add in intersectionality, it can jump up um double that. So it can get really high if you're talking about trans people of color or trans people with dis disabilities. So important consideration. So it it varies quite a bit. I think it's pretty comparable in Canada based on TransPulse Canada data as well.
00:17:50
Speaker
So ah people are unemployed. It's largely because of discrimination. um There's just not as much knowledge and understanding about trans people. Their issues aren't taken seriously, et cetera.
00:18:02
Speaker
But what is perhaps an encouraging spotlight is that there is a high degree of educational attainment among trans and non-binary folks.
00:18:15
Speaker
Now, before I go into the stats, I want to put a little asterisk on that to say that we
Recruiting and Recognizing Trans Talent
00:18:20
Speaker
shouldn't be relying on educational attainment to employ trans people. Of course. I don't want to make that equivalency here. It's more just to showcase that there's perhaps a value um among other things. Of course, educational attainment is not the only thing, but it is an important indicator.
00:18:39
Speaker
And what we see in the data, again from the 27,000 trans people that were surveyed, um that it was about a third have a bachelor's degree.
00:18:50
Speaker
And that's um ah markedly different from the about one-fifth or 20% of the general population. So there's just you know like 12% to 13% difference there in bachelor degrees. Graduate degrees, somewhat similar, a little bit less difference, but Essentially 21% of trans and non-binary folks have a graduate degree compared to the 12% of the general population.
00:19:16
Speaker
So those are just a few examples of where the the trans population does have higher educational attainment, especially in the higher degrees. And so you have this kind of untapped talent pool available if organizations are prepared to one get ready.
00:19:36
Speaker
i think there's a bit of like sorting one's own house out with a few things that we've talked about in other episodes along with and also specifically recruiting which there's trans job fairs or trans posts or even queer ones more generally right. So there's different avenues that employers can get to and engage with um this untapped talent pool.
Strengths-Based Inclusion Model
00:20:00
Speaker
To to close off then, I kind of want to talk about how making that shift, how organizations can make that shift and um how that kind of benefits a wider workplace. And so I'm just thinking if organizations are able to get a bit more comfortable with the idea of recognizing trans people as leaders that can really show up and bring something to the table, not just ah employees that need support and while that is important that's not all there is. um walk like
00:20:33
Speaker
How might that change how inclusion work is approached overall? is that a bit of ah Is that a bit of a weird question? No, no, I like it because it's true that there's kind of um a deficit model ah to inclusion work rather than asset or strengths-based model. And that's a common critique of equity, diversity, and inclusion more generally, which I appreciate. It's a fair critique. And so kind of reformulating it in terms of we want to make a few
00:21:08
Speaker
modest to sometimes bit bigger heavy lift changes in our organizations so that we can leverage uh you know employment ah you know gaining this you know important talent pool and the adjustments actually help to you know um create more emotional intelligence in the organizations or better ways of um interacting across diversity. It's kind of a like a gym for all kinds of other stuff. And
Addressing Gender Diversity for Broader Inclusion
00:21:40
Speaker
especially in this very difficult moment, if people are able to wrap their heads around gender diversity, it can make the other topics, um although I don't care which order they come in, we can talk about, you know like we can address the indigenous issues first, right? It's like not about order, but...
00:21:59
Speaker
if if gender diversity does go first or is among the first, then there is a way that that can make it much easier because with other topics, it's probably people are a little bit more familiar with those. And so it's just a way to practice that makes it that much easier to to work on these broader issues at the same time. so I think there's kind of net benefit to everyone, along with making things easier for a population of trans and non-binary folks that are really suffering right now.
00:22:32
Speaker
who Absolutely. um Do you have anything else you wanted to add before we go Oh, that sounds sounds about right. Yeah, just really kind of plugging and almost ah cheerleading the the vast talent pool that's out there, whether they are leaders or frontline workers, right? Like for me, they're equal. um Just spotlighting trans leaders because we're that's so little thought of in general. Yeah. So glad to give them their their flowers right now. Yes.
00:23:04
Speaker
Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Kai. And we'll see you next week. Yeah, thank you. Bye for now.