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Did You Really Just Ask That? Navigating Questions About Trans People at Work
40 Plays3 months ago
We’ve all had moments where curiosity gets the better of us, but when it comes to asking personal questions about gender identity, the line between interest and intrusion can blur fast.
In this episode of Gender in Focus, Kai and El unpack why curiosity isn’t neutral, especially in the workplace. From “What’s your real name?” to “Have you had 'the' surgery?”, they explore why these questions come up, how power dynamics shape what feels optional, and what respectful curiosity actually looks like.
They discuss how to balance authenticity with professionalism, why some topics can be off-limits at work, and how to build trust without overstepping. Along the way, they share thoughtful insights about intent vs. impact, privacy, but also what to do when you’re the one feeling uncomfortable.
Whether you’re an ally, a leader or just trying to get it right, this episode offers a grounded take on how to navigate awkward moments, respect boundaries and create workplaces where trans and non-binary people feel safe, seen, and supported.
Key themes: trans inclusion, non-binary inclusion, allyship, workplace boundaries, respectful communication, diversity equity and inclusion, workplace curiosity, DEI strategies, gender diversity, inclusive workplaces
#TransInclusion #NonBinaryInclusion #Allyship #GenderDiversity #DEI #InclusiveLeadership #WorkplaceInclusion #LGBTQInclusion #WorkplaceBoundaries
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Theme
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Gender in Focus podcast. I'm Elle and each week I get to ask Kai Scott, the president of TransFocus Consulting, all the questions you have ever wanted to ask about trans and non-binary people in the workplace and in the wider world.
Complexity of Personal Questions at Work
00:00:18
Speaker
If somebody is ah a leader or a manager of somebody, then the asking of questions of the team member or the person that reports to you, that becomes even more tricky because then sometimes people feel like they have to answer in order to continue to be gainfully employed, which that's an awful position to be in.
00:00:44
Speaker
I feel like that it's one of those things that we're like, I don't know, I have probably thought every single one of those questions at some point in my life. And I feel like you're allowed to think it like you're allowed to have the questions and you are allowed to seek out answers. It's just knowing where to do that and how to do that and with whom.
00:01:07
Speaker
So what's your real name? Have you had the surgery? Who do you date? At work, some questions pop into people's heads and somehow straight out of their
Boundaries and Respect in Questioning
00:01:17
Speaker
mouths. In today's episode, we're unpacking why curiosity isn't neutral, how power dynamics change what feels, quote, optional, and why not every thought needs to be shared out loud.
00:01:28
Speaker
We'll talk about boundaries, intent versus impact, and how to ask questions in a respectful way when somebody does want to share. El, let's start with this. Just because you want to know something, does that mean you're entitled to ask?
00:01:45
Speaker
It's a good question. I feel like if you were going to ask me a question like that, you have to be okay with the fact that I might not respond well to it in general. I'm also pretty sure that you've been on the receiving end of those kinds of questions a lot. I would imagine that's my assumption. And I guess that's a a pretty good place to start with. What other kinds of questions in general do trans people
Personal Questions Faced by Trans People
00:02:09
Speaker
get asked? I mean, there's so many different questions. In fact, questions kind of is a bit of one of the lead things that are challenging for trans and non-binary folks at work, just because it comes up so often.
00:02:22
Speaker
I think some of it stems from an understandable lack of information about trans and non-binary people generally. And so when somebody, when a cisgender person, somebody who wants to be an ally suddenly has a trans person right in front of them, it's like, And finally, you know, all of these things that I've ever wondered are coming to the forefront and maybe even duking it out in somebody's mind of like, okay, which one do i ask first? And, you know, people are excited. They're maybe a bit nervous. You know, there's a combination of feelings that come up for folks or the way that they describe it to us when we work with them. And so the things that I've mentioned at the outset are very common ones around, you know, what's your real name? People are really focused on gender affirming care or what used to be called sex reassignment surgery.
Privacy and Inappropriate Questions
00:03:15
Speaker
So all the medical aspects of transition. Right.
00:03:19
Speaker
People want to know about bodies because for many, gender is located in the body. And so and it is for trans folks, too, to some degree. But that's not always the biggest focus for everybody. And so that's where it gets a bit challenging. And of course, bodies are private as well. Or just even medical procedures in general have a privacy to them. We don't kind of ask ah you know people's status in terms of whether they have cancer or not or you know all kinds of numbers of things when it comes to medical pieces of information. There's political discourse that can come up where it's like, what about this topic that's kind of hot and polarized? So people want to debate women, trans women in sport, for example. wow
00:04:11
Speaker
People are curious about how people have sex. And you'd think that people might think twice about asking that at work, but that's not the case. In my experience, I've had people point blank ask me and I'm like, wow, okay. Yeah.
00:04:25
Speaker
Right, like 20 minutes left on my lunch break. Don't know if I want to talk about this. Let's get into it, you know. Okay. There's also folks who are curious about non-binary identities because, again, there's just a complete lack of information. And some people just didn't know that there were more genders beyond men and women or boys and girls. And so there's just so much that kind of gets, it can be rapid fire sometimes, you know, in a situation. So yeah, those are some of the things at play among many others.
Professionalism vs. Personal Curiosity
00:04:59
Speaker
I wanna talk about just like the difference between asking questions that you're curious about maybe outside of work versus asking certain questions within work and why there is like maybe a bit more um sensitivity. Well, I mean, there's always sensitivity, but just like, especially in a workplace, you can't be just asking somebody how they have sex, presumably. So I know it probably seems a bit obvious, but I was wondering if you could go into that um a little bit more.
00:05:28
Speaker
Right. Yes. So in general, we have the sense in North American, know, maybe in other cultures, it's a bit different, but certainly within a North American context, there is this kind of separation of personal and personal and professional lives. And so at work, we kind of keep a certain degree of professionalism, whether it's we don't talk much about our personal lives beyond certain key topics. And the rest we keep in our personal lives. And when it comes to things related to, as I was mentioning, the kind of medical care that somebody receives can tend to be off topic, if brought up in the workplace. You know, there also people Just things that we are maybe a little bit more reticent to talk about, especially when it comes to our past, especially if it's a difficult past that can also be difficult to bring up and discuss in the workplace, you know, because it comes with... emotional reactions. And I think there a place for emotion within the workplace. So it's not to say that we should not ever talk about these, but it's just with a certain sensitivity because somebody was trying to do their work, right? That's the main focus. Right.
00:06:48
Speaker
to complete tasks or connect with people or whatnot. Certainly having some understanding of somebody's experience can help create connections in the workplace. So it's never completely off topic, but it's just thinking it through a little bit more because for many trans and non-binary folks, there is a lot of excitement, but there's also a lot of difficulty associated with being trans in this society currently.
00:07:18
Speaker
I feel like a lot of the time, well, at least definitely my experience of this, and I'm sure you've had similar experiences, but it's sort of talked about like, it's just like an interesting topic, like, oh, you're here now, I can ask you lots of questions. And there is that kind of, like you were saying that,
00:07:34
Speaker
the more maybe difficult stuff or just really personal and it's not it's a fun topic for you but it's a very deeply personal topic for me or for whoever it is and and there can be people can forget that and it's not treated with sensitivity that maybe it deserves or needs and that can be pretty difficult as well at work when you when you're like trying to also balance like okay I kind of need to be on my game a little bit or I need to have my mind on my job and not panicking about what next question you're going to ask me. And so i kind of wanted to go in from there to look at the way this differs between relationships, because I've had somebody quite recently who I don't, I barely know at all, ask me quite a personal question, which lands very differently to if you asked me that same question. And so, and but I actually work with you. So it's not strictly about work more than it is about understanding kind of where you fall in each other's lives. And I was wondering if you could talk about that a bit too. Yeah.
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah. It's a very good point. There's kind of two dimensions that i want to point out. One, how close one is to the coworker or the colleague, you know, is this more of a distant acquaintance within the team or beyond Or is this something you you've gotten to know over
Impact of Power Dynamics in Questioning
00:08:53
Speaker
the the course? Maybe you go to lunch, maybe you go to activities outside of work, right? and So there can be a bit of blending of personal and professional. so And that's not super surprising because we spend a lot of time with folks at work. So that's okay, in which case there's probably a little bit more space to get into some of these things.
00:09:13
Speaker
perhaps a little bit more personal side of the the equation questions. But of course, you still want to proceed with caution and with sensitivity and always giving, letting the folks know that they don't need to respond, right? Which they generally do know that, but it's good for you to signal that you know that too, right? Because otherwise it can border on insistence, which is a very dangerous, well, not dangerous, but harmful dynamic, even if it's not intended. Sometimes the urgency with some with somebody asks a question can feel like a lot on the other end and then having to manage that. and Right.
00:09:53
Speaker
Yeah. So there's the whole dynamic that you want to be cautious of. But if you don't really know somebody that well, it's really important not to get into all of these personal questions. Sometimes people think they need to know this information.
00:10:09
Speaker
Often we hear from allies that they think that they need to know gender in order to know pronouns, but actually you can just shortcut to the pronouns. You don't need to go through gender if you know what I mean. It's more like just ask pronouns and then you're off to the races, right? So it's just unpacking some of those misconceptions that people want to be respectful, they don't know how, and so they might be asking more than they really need and to prioritize the practical stuff rather than the identity pieces.
Managing Personal Curiosity
00:10:44
Speaker
And if somebody wants to share, they will, in which case ah then you have the information without insisting or prompting for it necessarily.
00:10:55
Speaker
The other part of the equation, the second part, is if there is a power ah imbalance, or not imbalance, but dynamic, where if somebody is a a leader or a manager of somebody, then the asking of questions of the team member or the person that reports to you, that becomes even more tricky because then sometimes people feel like they have to answer in order to continue to be gainfully employed, which...
00:11:24
Speaker
That's an awful position to be in. And sometimes managers are thinking, again, similar to what I just said, thinking that they need to know information, what surgery somebody is going to have, when actually they just need to know how much time do they need off. It's a practical exercise of figuring out, okay, um without getting into details around the surgery, like what do you need to know? okay, you're going to need six weeks off. let's Let's schedule that and work together. So it's just, you know, thinking through what you need to know and why. and if it's just like personal curiosity, should be within the context of a closer relationship.
00:12:07
Speaker
And then just being careful as a leader, and talking to somebody that reports to you. So I kind of want to touch on something that you were just talking about around insistence. And i want I kind of want you to go into that a bit more because sometimes I think people don't realize that they are even being insistent when they're they're just trying to get that information or they think they need that information. But um it can like that curiosity or or yeah, that insistence can be pretty stressful to be on the receiving end of. So i was yeah, I was hoping you could go into that in more detail.
00:12:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So insistence, you're right that most people may not understand it as insistence. What tends to happen, what we hear from folks who are allies, who are aspiring allies, and well along their way allies, is that They're either so excited um or ah or, and or that they're so nervous, right?
00:13:10
Speaker
That they're like, okay, let me gather as much information as possible and like lock this down. Yeah. And so I get the, cause I get this way on other topics, right. That I'm less familiar with. So I get really anxious and I'm like, okay, let's gather as much information as possible. I have a real live person in front of me and they're going to tell me everything I need to know. ah And then I will go and do that, right? And so it is coming from a very good place. However, the the people on the receiving end typically have had these questions on repeat. Right.
00:13:48
Speaker
Particularly when they're coming out. And I had this experience. I get less questions. Obviously, I professionally do this. So when comes to that, I'm more than happy to answer questions. But in my personal life, I still get a few questions, but not as many as at the beginning.
00:14:05
Speaker
However, the um whether it's anxiety or excitement or any other kind of um high energy momentum, that can be a lot for somebody to manage on the other side. And typically it's not something that somebody needs. in order to proceed with the interaction. like they think they need to know it, but it's actually not necessary. And so it's just really um having people think thoughtfully about their questions and where they're coming from, why they want to know, what they're going
Thoughtful Questioning and Observation
00:14:38
Speaker
to do with that information after the fact. Will it actually improve the interaction or is it just you know additional piece of information that might not really yield a lot of value? And the other thing is, can I get this somewhere else, right?
00:14:53
Speaker
Is kind of over relying on especially just one person, which typically is the case, most people don't really meet that many trans and non binary folks, unless they're in the community.
00:15:05
Speaker
But, you know, over relying on one person, can you go somewhere else with that? And then that shifts the dynamic and people can, the trans and non or non-binary person can kind of relax. And actually that's when they tend to then feel more comfortable to share at their own pace, at their own time. And um especially if it's about developing a closer relationship. They might pepper in their experiences as they're talking about their lives, right? So you kind of get it more organically than in this like high pressure, like let's go data download in less less than 60 seconds, you know? Right.
00:15:47
Speaker
So that's that's more of the a shift that can happen when there's a little bit more space provided. so it's not saying no questions ever. is just thinking it through. You know, what is it that I'm asking for? Why do I need it? um What i'm going to do with it? um Will this actually improve things?
00:16:09
Speaker
maybe even reading the cues of the person you're asking or about to ask, you know, are they typically wanting to, you know, ask answer questions? Are they a bit more shy? so there's like a whole bunch of things that can be, you know, thought through more carefully to be in better relationship with trans and non-binary folks.
00:16:30
Speaker
You've said something once to me before about working some work that you did with Transfocus and how the question you got asked was something like, well, am I supposed to pretend to be blind
Sharing Personal Beliefs at Work
00:16:42
Speaker
then? Or am I supposed to pretend I don't notice something? Can you talk about that and how there is that difference between just because you notice something doesn't mean you actually have to comment on it? Yeah, it was an interesting comment, uh, where I appreciated that somebody, ah wanted to understand better and were maybe, i mean, I'm might be inferring, but maybe a bit frustrated, that they couldn't in certain circumstances no more. And part of it was that, you know, we
00:17:13
Speaker
how somebody appears might be different from how we expect based on societal standards. And so the the person was like, well, are you expecting me not to see things? Right. And that ah is not the case. Like we can observe all kinds of things and we do right on this topic, other topics. And so it's not a matter of saying don't see the things. It's just more that you there's a moment of pause to see if we need to say something about that or to ask questions or to inquire. Usually sometimes, especially with strong societal expectations for how somebody should look, Often people are wanting to get clarity. Is this a cisgender person who's expressing themselves in a different way or is this a trans person? Like what's going on? And they might, again, back to the insistence, be really kind of anxiously wanting to and so know that in order to figure out how to proceed.
00:18:15
Speaker
So it's not that you're not going to notice that. It's okay to notice. But then it's just thinking about, okay, do I need to vocalize anything? Is there anything urgent happening here? And I appreciate people want to avoid mistakes, right? They don't want to get in trouble. They don't want to hurt anybody on the other end. So all of that, again, coming from a good intention or position of good intention But then just thinking about the the other side of the equation of the person receiving the question, the comments, the statements and whatnot. So it's just completing that assessment before jumping into things. And sometimes people think, um or at least I get the impression that this is like a fast paced thing. um But actually, there's a lot more time that you can get with pausing and just observing a little bit more before jumping in, right? With a question or assumption or you know whatnot. So I would very much invite people to explore pausing and observing and kind of absorbing a little bit more before taking action now.
00:19:27
Speaker
That's easier said than done in this very action oriented, especially North American context. Right. So there, I appreciate that people want to kind of jump in and are most primed for that, but there's value in that just, you know, sitting back for a bit. Yeah. We have a note about you having an experience about this in Colorado, about being told that someone doesn't agree with being queer.
00:19:52
Speaker
And you were just like, well, like, I am. So what do I do? that point. Yeah. hey At work, you know, we we all have different belief structures that we align with, ways of living, um our even world visions might be very different, right? And so I can appreciate that, you know, there are some folks who have a harder time understanding queer and trans people or identities, And, you know, it might not align with their view of like their their religious beliefs or, you know, their other types of understanding of the world. And so in that case, sometimes people want to make that very clear to the queer and trans person or they feel like an obligation to state that in some way. And I've had that not just once, but a few times in my life, Colorado being one example. And back when I was there, i don't know, a few decades ago, it was a little bit more conservative and especially the area I was in there or industry even started. um you know i had religious co-workers and in this instance that i'm thinking about um this person wanted to make it very clear that they were against you know the state getting involved in marriage uh you know for for queer people to be be together legally and also that they were against trans people And so it's very jarring to hear that from someone else. It doesn't create a lot of safety or a sense of safety, even a sense of belonging. And I don't even think that person was necessarily coming from a malicious standpoint.
00:21:47
Speaker
um They didn't deliver in a hostile way. It was more just like, hey, FYI, you know, it's like, well, I mean, what do I do with that information? Right. Yeah. Okay, i and I hear you. And like, so it just became a very difficult situation because I very much enjoyed this person's company, right? And then by having to state this out loud to me,
00:22:15
Speaker
i like i yeah I just didn't know how to proceed and didn't feel very safe with them after that. And I don't think that was their intention. um I think they were maybe defending or clarifying or I don't know exactly their rationale, but that's some of the dynamic that could come up in the workplace where people um have a belief that they feel like they need to state when in fact you don't need to state it um and you can still hold it. Right. mean, the thing is the workplace is not um there to change people's beliefs, but it is helpful to respectfully
Handling Discomfort and Respectful Redirection
00:22:52
Speaker
interact with one another. And you don't need to become best buds with right everyone. Right. But yeah, so those are some of the dynamics that I've experienced and some kind of advice that I would have for folks who feel inclined to do that.
00:23:08
Speaker
Right. So like you're not attending work in order to either have your mind changed or to um have your curiosity quenched or like you're just all there to get on with what you're doing and that can be done in a reasonable way. Official statements somehow. Right. Because, yeah, that that can have an impact on a negative impact on folks, even if it wasn't intended.
00:23:32
Speaker
hu the last question I have really or I don't know if it's a question more of a just a muddled thought that is going to head your way is that some cisgender people ah can feel quite uncomfortable about trans people sharing information if they're let's say for example they're coming out and they are feeling like they're wanting to share certain aspects about that um Yeah, I kind of wanted to know if you could go into that a little more, if if you're not comfortable with the way the conversation's going as a cis person.
00:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've talked about different sides of you know these interactions, and one of them being about respecting trans and non-binary people's desire to ah share as much or little about themselves. But I do want to address the other side of that equation, the receiving of the information from the trans person. And, you know, some people are super interested and want to learn more and are open to talking about most things. And there are some folks who are not comfortable. And I also want to respect and acknowledge that. So sometimes people feel like if it's a a minority group or a marginalized group, they have to listen and, you know, feel almost compelled or somehow ah pressured to do so. And I will say that that's not the case. Like if If you don't want to have that conversation, it's okay to say, i don't you know want to talk about this topic. What about talking about this topic? So you know offering other options. So it's not shutting the conversation down and saying, you don't want to talk about anything. It's more just like, what are you more comfortable with?
00:25:11
Speaker
And the reason i state that is because for some talking about ah gender affirming care may not be their cup of tea, right? Some trans and non-binary folks are super excited about um whatever procedures they've chosen for themselves. And some will want to talk to coworkers about it, although not everyone. So just clarifying that, yeah, Also, i appreciate that um cis folks, but also maybe even fellow trans people themselves may not want to talk about those things. And it's okay to decline to talk about things. Of course, we can do it in a gracious way. We're not like, ew, like, why are you talking this? Right. But we're just like, hey, just to let you know um you know, I'd rather not talk about that. But I am keen to hear if you want to share about X, Y and Z, right? So you're you're helping kind of shape the conversation. And of course, that goes to any topic, right? This is not specific to trans and ah or special to trans and non-binary folks. Using the same matter of fact tone of how you would redirect a conversation
00:26:21
Speaker
on any topic that you will want to talk about is the, the kind of style of approach. Cool. Is there anything else you wanted to, have we missed anything when it comes to yeah. Asking personal questions at work. Yeah, there's one other thing that I wanted to add into the mix and this comes up occasionally, although not as often as people asking too many questions, is that some trans and non-binary folks um sometimes say, oh, I wish people would take interest in, right? And so, and they find that there's like a deafening silence or for them, it feels like ah a silence on this topic. And I think some people are just trying to be respectful by not asking a lot of questions. And so I think there is something about, we're not saying no questions ever, shut it down, ah you know, at work.
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah. It's more just like being in tune with the person you're talking with. Of course, that's general advice, not just for trans and non-binary folks, but like generally if we could be attuned to each person and where they lie on a spectrum of like maybe less sharing about themselves at work versus open to sharing about themselves and then aligning also with your what you want to know, that can work out a lot better. And so it's it's okay to ask questions, but it's it's good to have a bit of a moment of checking in with yourself before asking the question. And there is time to do that too, right? Especially as you get to know somebody, those things might come up organically. And in which
Seeking Information Responsibly
00:28:02
Speaker
case it is helpful, especially if they come up prompted by the trans person, um who starts sharing about how they came to terms with the fact that they're trans, then you asking a follow-up question shows interest. Right. Right? So i think it is important that that happen, and especially if if a trans person has stepped into that space. So I think it's just thinking about it from from that piece of...
00:28:31
Speaker
how how you're relating to that person, how closely you are connected to them at work, and that will help guide some of those decisions along the way. So hopefully that's that's helpful for folks and they feel more confident to step in when there's a desire on the other end to share. Mm-hmm.
00:28:51
Speaker
Amazing. Thank you so much, Kai. I think that will be pretty useful. i think that's one of the things that people are really like, oh, have all these questions I really want to know, but I don't know what to do. so well at least that's what I noticed. Well, and that's where you'll get many of the questions on this podcast too, right? we're We're trying to help people with some of those questions, obviously not specific to an individual, but just more generally to say, oh, these things might be at play.
00:29:17
Speaker
That helps people have information in their background in the background so that you know they have satisfied their curiosity.
Conclusion and Responsible Inquiry
00:29:24
Speaker
Also, of course, there's things like YouTube where tons of trans and non-binary folks are sharing their stories in like pretty detailed format. So you can get a lot of this. I feel like, I feel like that it's one of those things that were like, I don't know, I have probably thought every single one of those questions at some point in my life. And I feel like you're allowed to think it like you're allowed to have the questions and you are allowed to seek out answers. It's just knowing where to do that and how to do that and with whom. Yeah, exactly.
00:29:58
Speaker
That's a perfect way of summarizing it. Oh, great. it's Sweet. Well, thank you so much. Yes, thank you as well. It was good to talk this through and hopefully it's helpful for folks who are listening.
00:30:10
Speaker
Sweet. you later. All right. Bye for now.