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New to Allyship? Here’s How to Begin
45 Plays3 months ago
Everyone starts somewhere, and when it comes to supporting trans and non-binary people, that first step can feel a little uncertain.
In this episode of Gender in Focus, Kai and El talk about what it means to be an aspiring ally - someone who wants to show up, even when they’re still learning. They explore the fears many people have about saying the wrong thing, how to move through mistakes with grace and what real support can look like in everyday interactions.
The conversation touches on where to find trustworthy information, how to get more comfortable with names and pronouns, and why allyship isn’t a badge to claim but a skill to build - one that grows through listening, reflection and steady, consistent effort.
Whether you’re new to this or just wanting to deepen your understanding, this episode offers an encouraging and down-to-earth take on what genuine allyship really looks like, and how it can make a lasting difference.
Key themes: allyship, trans inclusion, non-binary inclusion, gender diversity, workplace inclusion, inclusive leadership, DEI, empathy, LGBTQ+ inclusion, learning journey, inclusive workplaces
#TransInclusion #GenderDiversity #Allyship #LGBTQInclusion #InclusiveLeadership #DEI #WorkplaceInclusion #LearningJourney #Belonging
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Transcript
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome
Introduction to Gender in Focus Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
to the Gender in Focus podcast. I'm Elle and each week I get to ask Kai Scott, the president of TransFocus Consulting, all the questions you have ever wanted to ask about trans and non-binary people in the workplace and in the wider world.
00:00:18
Speaker
ah If people aren't aware, you know, especially in early days of coming out, we misgender ourselves, right? And not to give license to, you know, just willy nilly misgendering, right? we We do want to be thoughtful. ah But there is something to be said about there is a ah time period for adjustment and there's space for practicing. And part of that is making mistakes as a way to improve.
00:00:43
Speaker
Yeah.
Understanding Allyship: A Skill to Develop
00:00:48
Speaker
Everything that you've said then so far is kind of alluding to the idea that allyship is a skill that is learned as opposed to an identity that's claimed. Right. And so it's a continuous learning journey.
00:01:06
Speaker
Welcome to today's episode designed especially for aspiring allies, people who want to show up, speak up and grow. If you've ever wondered, where do I start? How do I avoid doing harm? Or what does real support for trans and non binary people actually look like? You're in the right place.
00:01:23
Speaker
This isn't about perfection. It's about learning, practicing and building a foundation that makes allyship feel natural, not stressful. So I'm really excited to dig into this topic with my esteemed colleague, Elle.
00:01:37
Speaker
how are you doing today? I'm great, Kai. How are you doing?
How to Start the Allyship Journey
00:01:41
Speaker
I'm doing fantastic. Yeah. I am always really touched by people who are starting their journey of allyship and, you know, are curious, maybe a little hesitant, wondering what to do, maybe a little lost even. And so that's why we were inspired to do this session here today. So I'm excited to unpack it with you.
00:02:03
Speaker
Me too. And I guess that's a pretty good place to start, which is where do I even begin? if if you're an aspiring ally and you know this is something you care about, but you're just like, oh, I don't even know where to start here. um Where is that? Please tell us.
00:02:20
Speaker
Absolutely. I think it's really helpful if people, i mean, there's kind of two things. If you have a personal touch point on this topic of gender diversity, maybe a coworker just came out to you as trans, or you have a family member or a friend or somebody at church, you know, wherever that person has, you know, shared more about themselves. That's like a really wonderful starting point. um
00:02:50
Speaker
And there's a mixture of things you can do if that's the case. And then also share if you don't know somebody directly. Maybe they've not shared. Because usually there is somebody in people's lives they just don't know, right? And so what are ways that you can show up um even if you don't know somebody is trans? Right. So we'll start with the, you know, somebody, and maybe it's a recent thing, and maybe a bit nerve wracking, because it's maybe out of left field and like, holy crap, what what just happened. So I can definitely um yeah acknowledge those feelings.
Practical Tips for Aspiring Allies
00:03:22
Speaker
And then it really is about ah having conversations with that individual, but also doing your own work as well. Not over-relying on that one person for all the knowledge or all the information. And certainly going to... Wherever your interest lies, I think that's always a good place to start.
00:03:45
Speaker
It's not the end all be all, but it certainly is helpful if you're wondering how do I navigate pronouns or what how do I practice this new first name that you know I've known this person by another name and now they're going to go by this name. um And you're just wondering the practicalities of that, right? Okay, cool. Maybe you find somewhere in what you read or in videos that you watch on YouTube.
00:04:10
Speaker
Or by you know listening to this episode here, you can get those clues and say, for example, like a sticky note on ah your window mirror or on your what's it called? Fridge in the kitchen. You know, so anytime you pass by, you see that name and you say it. Things like that can be really helpful.
00:04:32
Speaker
People who are curious about broader issues. They're kind of timely topics happening right now. And it is helpful to read articles on those topics to become aware of what is you know misinformation versus correct information. um If we're thinking about gender affirming care and those kinds of topics. So it's kind of wherever your curiosity is, I think that's a great place to start. And then really having an open conversation. If the person in your life who is trans wants to have that, that's always good to have an open-ended question, not kind of kind of wanting to learn more about their experience and their understanding.
Handling Mistakes as an Ally
00:05:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:15
Speaker
If you don't know somebody trans in your life, ah then i think a similar thing applies of going with what you're interested in. And um usually along the way, you see other things that might pique your curiosity and they be like, oh, okay, I'll explore this too. And and then just it's a kind of a snowball effect.
00:05:34
Speaker
The momentum gathers and you learn more. Mm-hmm. So it's a sort of build your own journey as opposed to there are these exact steps you must take in order to be an ally.
00:05:46
Speaker
No, I absolutely agree with that. That's such an important thing. I think people think there's like this imaginary checklist of right exactly what to say and what to do and not do and a script maybe. i have had people and I totally understand this. They've asked for scripts, you know. That's cute. Yeah.
00:06:07
Speaker
Not to be patronizing, but that's sweet. You know what? I used to do the same. i grew up in Germany. And when I was just learning the language as a young child, I got so nervous going on the phone that out planned out my whole conversation.
00:06:22
Speaker
i mean, you can't, right? It's not possible. But I learned very quickly after the second question that they asked that I was totally doomed because I didn't plan for all the things. But so I can appreciate the desire for a script to have certainty. um But really, it's just about having you know some amount of knowledge, stepping into a bit of an unknown, and then working with the person or the people and finding your way to deeper levels of knowledge. Of course, that goes for any topic, but I think especially for something as you know something that people generally don't have a great understanding of when it comes to gender diversity. Yeah.
00:07:03
Speaker
The next thing I wanted to ask is ah a sort of common theme that I see, at least on social media, and I'm sure you've heard a lot of too, which is this real fear of making a big mistake and getting something wrong and really hurting someone's feelings or just finding yourself in a situation that you really didn't mean to get yourself into. And so I was wondering if you have some advice from people at the the start of their journey who are just a bit unsure of that.
00:07:31
Speaker
That's such a big one. That's, I would say, among the top three things that people bring up. It's coming from a really good place. You know, people want to be kind, considerate, understanding towards others, and they realize they don't know everything. And so that in of itself almost makes them hold back a bit because they're like, i just don't want to...
00:07:53
Speaker
step on somebody's toes, tails, you know whatever, right? Just like, um and hurt anybody. And I get that inclination. i have that on other topics, right?
00:08:03
Speaker
Like, I'm sure you do too, right? Absolutely. Yeah. it just like terrified, biting your nails, um just hoping that nobody, if you find yourself having made a mistake and you're aware of it, you're just like, oh, I hope nobody heard that. That's another common one, just like tiptoe past it. yeah Right.
00:08:24
Speaker
So it's totally understandable. It is a new topic. And this goes for not just complex topics like this one. This goes if you're learning a new language, a new skill, a new anything, you're just feeling really awkward. And especially if we're older, i find this as in my mid-40s. Sometimes a may feel a bit surprised when I say that, but mid-40s, a big reveal here. And I find that I should have confidence competencies already around this like i kind of blame and shame myself um and the further i am away from having learned something the more awkward it is to do it right and so right there's like the kind of self-talk piece and then there's also the i haven't been in a learning situation a long time and now i'm having to really face that And so when it comes to that, what I would advise is that really, especially among, ah we've done a lot of research among trans and non-binary folks, and the thing we hear over and over is not so much that a mistake is made, it's how people handle it after the fact.
00:09:33
Speaker
So if you acknowledge it, right, and make a correction, so not do my method of tiptoeing past it. ah Just be like, oh, you know, if it's misgendering using the incorrect pronoun for somebody, it's like, my bad, I meant she. and then carry on, right? um If it's other things, you know, you can apologize and be like, I'm really genuinely sorry. Is there anything I can do to address the impact I've had on you, right? So it's very genuine. It's an open question. It'll be different for, you know, each person. So, but you can absolutely correct and mend these things. This is not...
00:10:15
Speaker
Like something that happens and then you're forever banished to the sidelines. Right. That generally doesn't happen. Many trans and non-binary folks have space. It's not to say that doesn't have an impact on them. It does ah many times. But there's space to work with people. In fact, they really appreciate when people show up. and and want to do better, right? that that yeah Putting in the effort, taking it seriously, that really is very meaningful to a lot of trans and non-binary folks.
00:10:53
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I will also say that like whether it's on other topics, but also on this topic too, trans and non-binary people also get things wrong. It's not the it's not that ah you as a cis person who wants to be an ally the only person making mistakes. So i think if you can approach it like it's a human thing that we do this and we can try our best and that's it. But yeah, it's trans and non-binary people make mistakes all the time.
00:11:21
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And it's okay interestingly, if people aren't aware, you know, especially in early days of coming out, we misgender ourselves, right? And not to give license to, you know, just willy nilly misgendering, right? we We do want to be thoughtful. ah But there is something to be said about there is a ah time period for adjustment and there's space for practicing and part of that is making mistakes as a way to improve.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah. hmm. What does allyship look like then? Because if you're saying that there's no sort of checklist and it's okay to make mistakes or obviously we're trying not to make mistakes, but when they happen, it's kind of how we handle it. But on a sort of overall picture, what's the difference between just having supportive views versus actually being an ally?
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah, for me, it's more of a posture that you're wanting to learn and grow. You're curious in a way that is responsive or, you know, if you're curious towards a person, making sure it's, you know, ah adjusted to what they're wanting to share. And also, you know, there's a bit of ah connecting with others, but then also doing one's own work. There's a degree of humility that comes with allyship as well. The the fact that I don't know everything, but I'm not going let not knowing um very much hinder me from jumping in and being a part of, right? In other communities where i am an ally, i
00:12:59
Speaker
ah show up even if I don't have all the information. um I'll ask you know careful questions along the way. I'll try to do something and then kind of read the room to see the responses and um and try to try to do better next time if there's an adjustment needed right. But it's it's this kind of um iterative cycle of learning something, trying something, listening, and then you know having that feedback loop. So it's this continuous thing that happens. And with those variables, often people can really see the intention with which you're coming. um You don't need to advertise it really strongly either, right? Sometimes people are like, I come with good intentions, almost like lots of white flags flying. um Just be very kind of um matter of fact and present. And that can go a long way and people really realize. But I think the key thing is showing up. So um many people would want something a little bit more passive, but I do encourage folks to be active. and
00:14:12
Speaker
And that might mean going out ah outside of a comfort zone that we're not used to in the ways I described before. so But that active piece, it could go be going to events that are open to the public. It could be volunteering in some way with pride or other trans day of remembrance.
00:14:33
Speaker
It can mean ah you know practicing somebody's name. And really getting that and being very intentional about it. So these are small things, but they actually translate into to big, meaningful things for people. but they are active.
Finding Reliable Information on Trans Issues
00:14:48
Speaker
When there is so much misinformation out there regarding trans issues, and there's sort of there's quite a lot of noise and there's quite a lot of differing opinions, um when you're just sort of getting started, it can be really hard to know who to listen to or where to find information that is actually correct. And so where can allies go to learn sort of trustworthy information about trans people and non-binary people?
00:15:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really important question. You're right that it is so difficult sometimes, especially quick consumption on social media. It's like you're flipping through and you're like, is that true? You know, and you're like, you wonder, I don't know, it sounds right, kind of, but yeah.
00:15:35
Speaker
maybe there's more to it. So you're kind of perpetually wondering. And, you know, depending on the media source, there can be added layers there, not to go too far into media literacy on that front, but just being aware that even major newspapers or news sources may not 100% get things dialed on trans and non-binary folks. So It's not to say you don't consume that, but just more be kind of curious about, okay, they're saying this, but maybe there's more to the story and, right you know, looking further afield. Generally, if you have curiosity about people's trans and non-binary people's lives, there's tons of content generated by trans and non-binary folks. So direct source, always a really good insight into people's lived everyday experiences, whether it's on YouTube
00:16:27
Speaker
Substack, social media, obviously we have a whole social media line and um um with this podcast as well. So we're trying to, you know, increase that, that understanding on all kinds of different topics. you know, most of, a lot of it is work workplace focused, but, um you know, you can, there are now trans and non-binary journalists, right? So they're also generating, you know, content and information specific to these issues. And so, I think those are really important sources, along with evidence-based research, too. right So, of course, that has a little bit added layer because there is research out there that can be a bit questionable, um especially if it doesn't involve any trans people at all. That's usually a bit of a flag that there's something going on. um and so
00:17:23
Speaker
But certainly if if it's involving trans and non-binary folks and serving them or focus groups or any other sort of data collection to better understand that.
00:17:34
Speaker
they're um Here in Canada, at least, the government-generated research is often high quality and can reveal a lot of really important insights there. One big one I'll flag just as a really ah powerful resource is really simple title, weareallies.ca. It is a Health Canada funded a national campaign here in Canada, with storytelling videos and a whole bunch of really great content on the lived experiences of folks, especially when it comes to gender affirming care. So that's just one I'll i'll plug specifically.
00:18:15
Speaker
Great. Everything that you've said then so far is kind of alluding to the idea that allyship is a skill that is learned as opposed to um an identity that's claimed. Right. And so it's a continuous learning journey. And what is some general advice for for developing any skill?
00:18:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's a you're absolutely right.
Making Allyship an Exploratory Journey
00:18:38
Speaker
This is all about developing a skill. And any skill, ah there's things that can contribute to that skill development and then things that detract from it. What I find is in my allyship journey with other groups is having fun. And I know that sounds counterintuitive because we're taking it very seriously. But sometimes that seriousness can be so heavy. And so...
00:19:02
Speaker
you know Just being like, you know what, this is an ongoing thing. We have time, even if maybe outside events, we don't need to name them, make them feel very urgent, and they are, um but we can still enjoy the process and just really lean into it really And the exploration and curiosity can really drive you know many twists and turns. And what we find in the allies that we've talked to is that they learn about themselves as well along the way. And there's like these beautiful little gifts that they get along with themselves. helping trans and non-binary folks. So it's this kind of win-win that I just encourage folks that maybe are feeling pretty hesitant that these are some of the rewards of that. And not to say you have to have personal reward to go on this journey, but it's a nice cherry on the top of a much larger cake. So just saying, you know it's not about perfection.
00:20:04
Speaker
you can learn along the way, there'll be support along the way as well. And that this will make a huge difference in trans and non-binary people's lives if you're there showing up for that journey. And we've got a lot of specifics as well. I know people really want, you know, crave the specifics to kind of help with some of the uncertainty that they feel. And we certainly have tons of that here in our podcast, which I invite you to to listen to, and a ton of other resources that you can access to help, along with tons of other places where you can go to extend that learning. And of course, hope and wish for a lot of insight along the way for folks who do that.
00:20:52
Speaker
Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Kai. well really lovely. And thank you for for the great conversation. And bye for now. See you. Bye.