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2025 Was Tough! Here's Why Hope For Trans Inclusion Isn't Lost
36 Plays3 months ago
You might think 2025 was hopeless, but the numbers tell a different story.
In this episode of Gender in Focus, Kai and El reflect on a year marked by political pushback, anti-trans legislation and widespread misinformation, but also by hope, resilience and meaningful allyship. They share practical ways allies can keep showing up for trans and non-binary people, even when progress feels uncertain.
The conversation highlights:
• What a survey of 5,600 Canadian workers reveals about workplace support for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in 2025
• How individuals and organizations can respond thoughtfully to anti-trans legislation
• Why allyship isn’t about perfection, but about consistency and showing up even when it feels hard
• Inspiring examples of allyship, from checking in with friends to using professional skills to show support
Whether you’re an ally, a DEI advocate, or simply looking to understand the state of trans and non-binary rights in Canada and the U.S., as well as the wider world, this episode offers a grounded, hopeful perspective and practical strategies to make a real difference, one action at a time.
Key themes: trans inclusion, non-binary inclusion, allyship strategies, DEI 2025, diversity equity and inclusion, Canadian workplace survey, anti-trans legislation, LGBTQ+ rights, inclusive workplaces, community support
#TransInclusion #NonBinaryInclusion #Allyship #DEI #GenderDiversity #InclusiveLeadership #LGBTQInclusion #CommunitySupport #TransRightsCanada #DEI2025
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Transcript
Introduction to Gender in Focus
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Gender in Focus podcast. I'm Elle and each week I get to ask Kai Scott, the president of TransFocus Consulting, all the questions you have ever wanted to ask about trans and non-binary people in the workplace and in the wider world.
Community Allyship
00:00:18
Speaker
What has given me hope is that um we're connecting with one another. so in the face of some pushback or pullback, I have seen communities coming together to support one another, allies showing up in very real and tangible ways.
00:00:39
Speaker
There's often a little bit of a surprise of how simple allyship can be, and especially when you see all of this huge sort of mass onslaught of some really tough stuff going on at the moment. that The allyship is actually quite small. The day-to-day stuff is the thing that really makes an impact.
00:01:01
Speaker
Today we're closing out 2025 together, acknowledging year with its challenges, but also real steps forward, renewed connections, a collective push to focus, and new openings for allies to show up in meaningful ways.
00:01:15
Speaker
And despite the noise, the broader picture remains encouraging.
Reflecting on 2025: Challenges and Progress
00:01:19
Speaker
We delve into this episode, interesting results from a recent survey of 5,600 workers in Canada about how they view EDI. Progress is cyclical, but it's still moving.
00:01:31
Speaker
Now to help make sense of this year's patterns and possibilities, Elle, let's bring you in. How are you doing? Hello. I'm doing so well. How are you doing? I'm also doing well. Yeah, it's exciting to talk about 2025 and, you know, what it entailed and what we're looking forward to coming up.
00:01:51
Speaker
Yes, 2025 has been ah a pretty tough year. i think we can think we could agree with that. yeah um And so I guess that's that's a good place to start is what have we actually, what are we looking at in 2025 and what what's happened? That's such a massive question. So I'm not expecting you to reel off every single thing that's happened. But Just sort of like what we've been what we've been facing, what we've looked at and also what has kept you hopeful through all of that.
00:02:22
Speaker
Yeah, yes. 2025 has been real. Right. Like really got into it. And for me, yeah there there have been real shifts, right? as we Especially we think compared to last year.
00:02:39
Speaker
um yeah things were
Political Flashpoints and Anti-Trans Legislation
00:02:41
Speaker
very different. People have been taking another look at equity, diversity, inclusion more generally, and wondering how that fits, especially within a corporate context.
00:02:52
Speaker
You know, people have asked questions about what it means, what what are they responsible for, and um you know, people have been backing off of some aspects of EDI and also, know,
00:03:06
Speaker
when we talk about trans and non-binary issues specifically, they have become a political flashpoint. right Certainly in the US, s but also in Canada and other parts of the world, there have been real pushback on trans and non-binary progress. That can be in the form of anti-trans legislation, whether proposed or enacted, It can come in, you know, questionable research that has been conducted without the involvement of trans and non-binary folks. It can, yeah, there's so many different ways. I don't want to list them all because, it you know, it can feel very heavy to look at it in totality where you're like, oh, yeah, tell um to tell me about it.
TransFocus Strategies and Educational Shifts
00:03:50
Speaker
um Now, all that to say, and, you know, I will say with TransFocus, too, we've observed shifts in how people engage in the work that we do. For example, there's still focus on kind of strategic advice and changing things from a structural standpoint, but it's gone a little bit quieter on the educational front, right, as just one thing.
00:04:16
Speaker
example of that. I think more here in Canada, it's about a wait and see. People are a little hesitant or not even people, just companies are like, okay, what's happening? Let's hold off a bit.
00:04:30
Speaker
But things have been kind of picking up again too. So it's interesting once uncertainties are clarified, then people are back,
Examples of Allyship
00:04:41
Speaker
right? Or companies. Yeah.
00:04:44
Speaker
What has given me hope is that we're connecting with one another. So in the face of some pushback or pullback, I have seen communities coming together to support one another, allies showing up in very real and tangible ways. One example in Alberta. There's a few things happening, which we don't need to go into all the detail. Maybe that's another episode.
00:05:11
Speaker
ah But I've been really encouraged by ah bishops from several Christian denominations showing up in real tangible ways. They wrote a letter saying this is not a Christian approach. We don't agree with the the pushback and backlash on our trans siblings. And I was like, holy smokes, this is amazing. You know, that's just one example. Yeah.
00:05:35
Speaker
So it's it's really encouraging to see people show up and ah want to be working together towards a better future for everyone. That story about the bishops is so moving because it's not, it's sort of not what you would expect almost, not to say that we have like assumptions or we shouldn't be making assumptions, but it's also true that um when we think of allies, we don't necessarily go to the church. Yeah. for that and maybe initially, but that's, it's such a great example of how one assumptions are wrong and you can find allies and and community and connection anywhere that if you want to, if you look for it. And two, that people are showing up in real tangible ways that they have a real impact on the community um that are are facing some really tough times at the moment. And and that's kind of my next question is,
00:06:27
Speaker
this specific moment is quite a key time for people to show up and and actually really put their allyship into action. And so what does that look like in practical terms on on a sort of day to day basis?
00:06:40
Speaker
Right, right.
Impact of Simple Actions in Advocacy
00:06:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's so important. And I know in talking to allies, they feel that they feel that, okay, I see all these really grim news stories, and I feel compelled and um a strong desire to contribute. And then the question is like, okay, how and when and where and, you know, is it my place and, you know, maybe there's a few, little bit of a chatter in the head. Right. Yeah. um and And maybe a hesitation to to show up specifically. Yeah.
00:07:12
Speaker
But it is still really important. And i think people start to realize, OK, there's been progress, but that progress is not guaranteed. And so you know trans and non-binary folks, along with allies, showing up to kind of hold the line for now and then continuing to expand it um ah in in many different areas.
00:07:34
Speaker
And the ways that showing up look like depends on the individual. Usually people have a set of gifts or skills that they're really good at. One thing I've encouraged a friend who is like, who's really good at writing. i was like, right now, we just need a lot of content out there explaining and counteracting some of the myths and disinformation about trans and non-binary folks. So you could lend your your skills to any number of organizations that Especially nonprofits don't have a huge budget for that type of work and would love to have people helping with writing. Right. So it's right. It yeah seems kind of basic, but it's actually a big deal because writing and communicating is like one of the biggest ways that can really lend to the effort.
00:08:25
Speaker
If people don't have any specific skills that they can think of that could help, of course, donations are a big deal right now. There's a lot of legal action happening and supporting various ah legal organizations that are at the forefront of fighting the anti-trans laws.
00:08:42
Speaker
um either after the fact that they've been implemented to question their constitutionality or, um you know, we have folks, thankfully, um like Chase Strangio, who are going to the Supreme Court as a trans person to fight for for trans rights. and But of course, that needs support. right There's so many other ways. The everyday piece, if you do know somebody in your life who is trans and non-binary, is just to check in with them, see how they're doing. You don't have to assume that they're kind of down and out, even though many are, but just just be like, hey, want to go grab coffee, you want to talk, you know, and then just wherever they want to go with what they want to share. is a really beautiful way to show up for somebody and to let them know you're in their corner and you're doing these things maybe on your own of your own accord. But also if they need anything specifically, then you're there and all ears kind of thing.
00:09:45
Speaker
And then this seems really basic and I know we probably repeat it a lot, but it does bear, you know, some mention if you know somebody's name and pronoun using it, and sometimes that means practicing it, but that makes such a big deal in this vast land of misgendering that's happening for trans and non-binary folks, whether specifically or more broadly. So that can make a huge difference. And you model for others, how to respectfully treat trans people.
Everyday Support: Personal Stories
00:10:17
Speaker
One of the things that I've noticed in having conversations with people is that there's often a little bit of a surprise of how simple allyship can be. And especially when you see all of this huge sort of mass onslaught of some really tough stuff going on at the moment. that the allyship is actually quite small. We're not expecting you to go and, I don't know, break into, hang on, where am I going? Where am I going with that? I was going to say, Alberto Lettuce Lucha. No, we're not expecting anything huge. Like the day to day stuff is the thing that really makes an impact on people. And like even just, I don't know, like a really great example is my friend cooked a meal, an extra portion and packaged it up and gave it to my other friend who, is trans and just was feeling really heavy. There's a lot going on in Alberta and was just feeling really rough. And it was like such a tiny act that was like, oh, I'm loved. Like it's, it's people have my back. And I think that's like a really important thing is the people your life who are trans or non-binary knowing that you have their back is really important, I think.
00:11:35
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, I get articles, not articles per se, but just, you know, um people in my life saying, you know, I think this is utter garbage, what's happening, or, you know, whatever, however they want to express it. um And, you know, I'm really upset.
00:11:49
Speaker
And so just kind of reflecting, obviously, not kind of dumping on that person, but just a few notes to say this is this is, you're paying attention. Right. Because oftentimes trans and non-binary folks, especially in places of despair, and I certainly have gone there, especially in the past, it's just like, oh, I'm i'm all alone. Trans people are kind of left out in the the open ocean to defend themselves. and Right.
00:12:19
Speaker
There's a sense that people are paying attention, that they're affected by what's happening, and in some cases being vocal about that, depending on the context and when it makes sense and what kind of influence somebody has. But that can make a big deal.
00:12:34
Speaker
And I also appreciate sometimes these small gestures that you're talking about, these um like moments of care are very powerful. Mm-hmm. um and where you don't even have to connect it be like because you're having because the world is against you right now i'm making you this lasagna you know it's just more like right no i care for you and i want to you know want the best for you yeah i also appreciate sometimes when people send uh joyful or maybe it doesn't have to be joyful but like positive content too to be like oh i read this really interesting article
00:13:08
Speaker
where they were talking about trans vis-a-vis freedom, you know, self-determination. And I found this thing to be really interesting. I recently had my mom send like a conversation among trans folks and she then picked out what she appreciated and liked. Right. So I like that. Just like this is content that might you might enjoy. Your mom's breaking my heart. My my mom is pretty awesome. Yeah.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's sweet. Makes a big deal to to know that, you know, when there's attention on the negative stuff, but there's also room for the positive too. hmm.
00:13:45
Speaker
Yeah.
Simplifying Inclusion Work
00:13:46
Speaker
Something that you've said a lot recently is a big focus that, um, that you've had is on making things simpler and sort of, yeah, simplifying things, especially when things are feeling heavy. um and I was wondering what your thoughts were on how that applies to sort of inclusion work and allyship more generally.
00:14:07
Speaker
So when it comes to trends and non-binary inclusion, I've been really listening carefully and that's the whole range of things where people are super supportive and ready to go and involved to even kind of on the more negative side of things where, as you know, because you're they're handling those comments,
00:14:29
Speaker
there's something there, right? um And there's kind of this undercurrent that if we can you know better ah kind of understand or realize, then i think we can, you know there's ah there's a way forward with that. And so I've been thinking about a lot of that there's an opportunity to reset.
00:14:51
Speaker
So there's a lot that's already been done. And for some folks, they don't fully understand what that change entails to have greater inclusion of trans and non-binary folks. And for some, it it can feel even threatening, right? And so there is an opportunity, even though it's unfortunate that has come to a backlash, but and sometimes such a severe backlash that there but in so in that moment of darkness I think there's also a bit of light and that's where I'm focused is okay a how can we kind of go back to not just basics because of course many people have already learned a lot of the basics but It's how do we um kind of fold in the things that are important to a variety of different folks. And as a way to show this is something um that is helpful and beneficial to every everyone, um obviously, particularly for trans and non-binary folks, but hopefully to show that it's not a a threatening thing, that it's actually a really powerful thing for kind of human evolution or
00:16:08
Speaker
actualization, whatever you want to call it, that there's something
TransFocus's Journey: A Decade of Adaptation
00:16:11
Speaker
there. So, but I think simplifying it is a key to making that possible because and maybe in, and I'll claim this, right? Like how we've explained things, especially in the past, if I think about, we were just about to celebrate 10 years and I looked back to some of the original content, and you know, it was a little complicated, right? Transfocus is 10 years old. and oh Oh, right. Sorry. I'm with you. So your the stuff you were saying before was complex? Yes.
00:16:43
Speaker
yeah Was it? Really? Well, you know, you're starting out and you're like, okay, all these things need to be known right now. Downloads. immediately ah but it's a lot and a lot of what we have learned is pacing is it's just like a proper sequencing that's ah measured and is a like an enjoyable learning experience rather than kind of being pummeled with a bunch of stuff that's like whoa totally overwhelming it it's hard to figure out where things are at and situate them and so yeah i mean i'll humbly admit that
00:17:20
Speaker
We had a lot more academic terms, so big words, and people were like, oh, i don't know what that means. and Or maybe they initially understand and then immediately forget because it's how our brains work.
00:17:34
Speaker
So, you know, we've learned a lot in the 10 years that we've been operating a lot from feedback from folks because they're like, hey, this doesn't work for me. And and then we're able to adjust. And so really value that that input to make things better.
00:17:51
Speaker
So with that backlash that we've been seeing, and it is quite, it's quite easy to, well, I'll speak for myself, it can be quite easy to lose hope sometimes. And it's, you've laid out a lot of positives too, but ah sort of on when you're reading the news, and it's sort of news article after news article, legislation after legislation, it can be really tough to to stay positive. um But Could you go into what we're actually seeing, well, at least in Canada, what we're seeing amongst individuals and how um i think you told me that theres there's still quite a big support for EDI work in general?
00:18:29
Speaker
Yeah.
Survey Insights on Equity and Inclusion
00:18:30
Speaker
And that's part of the encouragement is... Yeah, when you look at news, it's it's easy to despair. And I think it's important to acknowledge that despair too. It's not like something bad or like we shouldn't do we shouldn't be that way. It's very human to be like, holy crap. crap, what the heck, you know, like, yeah and to, to feel it, um, obviously feeling despair all the time is debilitating. And so, so you know, like with measure to, to you know, everybody has their own way of, of,
00:19:05
Speaker
Measuring what amount of news they're able to consume without, you know, becoming um overwhelmed. ah And that's a journey for everybody to figure out.
00:19:16
Speaker
But I think there's some place for grieving and being mad and upset or whatever, you know, corresponding feeling. Yeah. And that said, also to not lose sight of the positives, because there are a lot. um This one study that you're saying that happened um in, um I think it was April or March of this year, The Diversity Institute ah surveyed, I think it was 5,600 workers in Canada, so across Canada, to get their views on equity, diversity and inclusion. So it's more broad than gender diversity. um But it's helpful to kind of see where where are folks at, what's happening, you know, because look at the news.
00:20:02
Speaker
You could assume that you know people are just you know thumbs down on EDI, right? Yes. So it's good to get a few reality checks of that. Yeah, there there is majority ah support for EDI in Canada. And that's, I think, important to not lose sight of.
00:20:22
Speaker
If there are people who are unsupportive, it's actually about being neutral, not against. So I think that's an important distinction as well. Yeah, absolutely. People can often, yeah, it's like you can only see it in a binary rather than a spectrum.
00:20:37
Speaker
And that neutrality, I think, is important because people just have lost touch. And so... yeah I think involving them more, bringing them in seeing where they're at with you know the topic and and continuing the dialogue is so important.
00:20:56
Speaker
ah When there is opposition to EDI, it's actually about economic uncertainty. I think that's key. So, yeah, I think that we need to think about how to involve folks who are struggling to get by. That's a real thing. Right. and Yeah, of course.
00:21:20
Speaker
So I think there's there's a a degree of compassion, as at least for me, everybody can choose their own. um And then ah another aspect, I'm just trying to think of, you know there's so many different aspects to this study and just wanted to give a few highlights and then we'll we'll put the link in the show notes so you can read further. But then a there was ah also that opposition never exceeded 15%.
00:21:50
Speaker
it's a really low opposition, right? Oh my goodness. That's surprise. I don't know why that surprises me. I think, I think maybe because there is so much noise about the sort of like the pushback that actually it's such a small amount. Yeah.
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah. And very vocal. That's, you know, especially on social media or even in the media more broadly, if you're loud, you get attention. um But I think there's an opportunity for something quieter to happen. That'll be more, that'll be stronger and more sustainable. Working with people who are in active support of EDI, as well as folks who are a little bit more neutral or just, they don't really fully understand it yet.
00:22:32
Speaker
And so, yeah, that's where I gained so much hope. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is, yeah, absolutely yeah let's let's do it. There are different sectors that have different levels. So nonprofit is a place where this particular ah big support for EDI, big hearts, I get it. yeah know yeah um And ah yeah, the only other thing I'll say is that there is some degree of opposition or a little bit higher opposition among older men.
00:23:06
Speaker
So I think there's something there to explore and that's where I'm curious and you know I'll be thinking about that and extending things to to understand better and I'm curious to hear from from listeners as well if they have any thoughts
Cyclical Progress and Intergenerational Efforts
00:23:22
Speaker
on the matter. So just Just a few highlights, and I encourage you to read the whole report. And of course, very thankful to the Diversity Institute. I think there are a few other organizations, like Future Skills Center that were involved. So yeah, always grateful for data, for a good reality check.
00:23:41
Speaker
Yes. Oh, that's really encouraging. I'm so glad ah to hear that. um You said something in the beginning, and I just wanted to kind of close off on this, um which is that the you mentioned about the cyclical nature of progress. And And how really those setbacks that we might be looking at don't erase the entire sort of forward momentum that we've had overall. And so I was wondering, yeah, if you could close up with with some thoughts on that.
00:24:12
Speaker
Absolutely. And I've got to give credit. This is Ta-Nehisi Coates who inspired this thought with a recent interview with Ezra Klein.
00:24:23
Speaker
And he reminded me, this is, he draws a lot of strength from intergenerational action. He's looking to his ancestors, um you know, especially in the the Black civil rights movement and all the work that was, you know, done. a lot of gains, a lot of, you know, pushing back. This was not, you know, one and done. And um he's pushing it forward a little bit more or a lot more in many cases.
00:24:50
Speaker
And then he's looking to the future generation to continue. And so when I think about it from like an intergenerational, and this is also something that Indigenous people think, often think about in terms of seven generations right so if you get time scale it's easier to get a perspective that and kind of see the patterns of things that happen and almost be able to anticipate them rather than kind reel from them right Okay, we're in a backlash, right? um And if things like, because things are cyclical, I can now look forward to and work towards along with everyone else, towards that next part of the positive cycle, you know, and then also be planning in the positive cycle for possibility of a backlash, right? So just always have it kind of built in.
00:25:41
Speaker
So yeah And that those positive cycles that come forward only exist because people don't lose momentum during the pushback. Oh my gosh, such a good point.
00:25:52
Speaker
Yeah, to not lose sight. Eye on the prize, as the PBS special on the civil rights movement talked about, such a powerful, and I think there's a song also about that.
00:26:06
Speaker
And it's so true on so many fronts. And so just...
Podcast Anniversary Reflections
00:26:12
Speaker
um yeah it can be easy to lose sight of that and so i do understand if people do that and then also as soon as you're able to you know get back up it's important the the momentum is key and we're we're doing it for for ourselves but also for future generations because we there's almost a sense of owing it to them not in this like high pressure down on yourself if you don't but just more like I feel inspired to set things and set things up in that way for others absolutely amazing well thank you so much Kai and ah let's hope 2026 is looking bright and thank you for a great 2025
00:26:54
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you as well. And it was really good. I want to reflect briefly ah in closing and the fact that we've done this podcast for for one year as well. Oh, yeah. Of course, big, huge thank you to Elle for all the work that you do. Much more behind the scenes that many of you may not see, but they make the magic happen. Let's so say that. So big kudos. And course, looking forward to much more in 2026 with this podcast and so many other things.
00:27:26
Speaker
So thank you. Amazing. Thank you so much, Guy. Okay. See you. Bye for now. Bye.