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Alzheimer’s and End-of-Life Choices with Author Erica Baccus
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ERICA BACCUS started her professional career in the suburbs of Chicago as an 8th grade English teacher. She went on to San Francisco to become a high-tech marketing, advertising, and research executive. She and her beloved husband John were married for 41 years. Together they lived an active and adventurous life—skiing, golfing, hiking and traveling around the world. Erica enjoys spending time with her son, stepson, stepdaughter and grandkids. Now she helps advocate and educate people about end-of-life decisions exploring the moral and ethical perils so many face. Erica is a caregiver, widow, and lived-experience expert on end-of-life autonomy for dementia. Erica’s new memoir, A PROMISE KEPT: Honoring His Wishes, Embracing Our Love [Soul Spark Press | September 30, 2025], is a clear-eyed account of honoring her husband John’s self-determined end while navigating the legal maze that forced their hand.Get in touch with Erica Baccus and order her book:
EricaBaccus.com
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Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be odded to the newsletter, to find out about coaching or to be a guest on the show. https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Show Themes and highlights:
A 41-Year Love Story: Erica details her magical 41-year marriage to John, which was filled with deep connection, independent passions, and a cherished tradition of surprise anniversary trips.
The Alzheimer's Diagnosis: We trace John's 2020 early-stage Alzheimer's diagnosis and his firm declaration that his "brain is his person" and he did not want to live in a "vegetative state".
Navigating End-of-Life Laws: Erica explains why U.S. assisted dying laws fail dementia patients, leading them to seek help from Dignitas in Switzerland where the focus is solely on mental competency.
The Burden of Secrecy: The couple's difficult decision to keep their end-of-life plan hidden from their wider circle to protect John's dignity and avoid defending his choice.
A Final Farewell: How their family rallied to support John's final wishes, including a beautiful last weekend spent playing poker and creating memories with his children and grandchildren.
Planning While Healthy: Erica’s powerful plea for listeners to make and discuss their end-of-life plans while they are still healthy, rather than during a medical crisis
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Alzheimer's and John's Questions
00:00:00
Speaker
So that means that he was at the early stages of Alzheimer's. And at that point, John asked two questions. One, he asked, can I still drink alcohol?
00:00:13
Speaker
And two, how long before I'm a vegetable? And I understood that question way better than the doctor. Because
00:00:27
Speaker
John and I had talked throughout our marriage about what would we do if this happened.
Podcast Introduction by Kendra Rinaldi
00:00:36
Speaker
Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions.
00:00:53
Speaker
Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone. Your journey matters, and And here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:17
Speaker
Let's start with a quick disclaimer. This podcast includes personal stories and perspectives on topics like grief, health, and mental wellness. The views expressed by guests are their own and may reflect individual experiences that are not meant as medical advice.
00:01:34
Speaker
As the host, I hold space for diverse voices, but that does not mean I endorse every viewpoint shared. Please listen with care and take what resonates with you.
Erica Bacchus on Her Memoir and Marriage
00:01:46
Speaker
Today I am joined by Erica Bacchus. She is an award-winning debut author of A Promise Kept. At 80 years old, Erica wrote a very powerful memoir about her marriage and the tender, courageous journey of honoring her husband John's final wishes.
00:02:07
Speaker
And her story has been described as a cultural act of courage and an invitation to rethink how we approach death with honesty, compassion, and humanity. I'm so grateful to have you on the podcast today, Erica, and to talk about you, your love story, again, honoring your husband, John. So let's start with the love story. Let's start with finding out more about you and how you and John met, and we'll go from there.
Meeting John and Early Relationship
00:02:41
Speaker
Well, John and I met... um at work in the old fashioned way that people used to meet. um Actually, the one of the first chapters of my book is called Trust Your Lust.
00:02:57
Speaker
And I just get a kick out of it. I met John on my first day at my new job. And i was standing in an area talking to my new boss.
00:03:11
Speaker
And this man comes walking up and he's wearing these navy blue pants and a white shirt with the collar open. Very jovial and happy. And he comes up to talk to my new boss and we get introduced.
00:03:23
Speaker
And he was a manufacturing manager at this biotech company where I was just starting to work. And um he asked me, has anybody given you a tour of the company yet?
00:03:37
Speaker
And i said, no, i had just got in there. And I looked at my boss and she said, go with him. And he took me down this long hallway and stopped and introduced me to all these different people and gave me a lovely tour and then took me to his office. And we sat down and chatted for a little while.
00:03:55
Speaker
And then he returned me to my my area, my new area. And the interesting thing is that John was married at the time and I was living with a man.
00:04:07
Speaker
And so, you know, in my head, this was just a nice person that that did such a nice thing for me that day. But that night, I dreamt about him.
00:04:20
Speaker
And I dreamt about him in a way that when I woke up the next morning, I said, you can't dream about him. You're you're living with Bob and he's married. You can't have this kind of dream.
00:04:31
Speaker
Well, two years later, we were dating. um And it was, ah tote we became good friends. We'd had lunches together and I would talk to him about my relationship with Bob, which wasn't so great. and he And he just was a great listener and he was just always so kind and funny and jovial and generous with his time. And so we started having lunches together and then on occasion there were groups of us that would go out for drinks after work I was 38, he was 36.
00:05:09
Speaker
And i I had been married before. I had a, at the time, my son was seven years old, six or seven years old.
Marriage Dynamics and Independence
00:05:19
Speaker
And what happened was along the way, one day I'm walking down the hallway and all these girls are standing in the hallway giggling. And I said, what's going on? What's so funny? And they said, haven't you heard? Bacchus is separated.
00:05:34
Speaker
I said, I guess there were other people who had an eye on him. Yeah, so you were you you were were you're like, oh, okay, this is my window. Why am I the last to know?
00:05:49
Speaker
So John separated from his wife, and ultimately um i separated from the the man that was living with me, and John and I started dating.
00:06:01
Speaker
and It was two years later we started 1980 and we got married in 1982. But along the way, i have to say, and this is, I get a lot of comments from people who read my book.
00:06:14
Speaker
John, and John broke up with me like three or four major times.
00:06:22
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And he would and I understood it. i had been single for 12 years and um
00:06:31
Speaker
he had just become single. And I thought he's not ready. And so whenever he broke up with me and they were never arguments or never fights or anything like that, it was just that he needed to go away.
00:06:45
Speaker
And I would just think, okay, you know with it was not nothing hostile. And then a few weeks later, he'd call me up and he'd be back or whatever. So it was a back and forth kind of situation.
00:06:59
Speaker
before the Before getting married. Before getting married. So during the dating time of that two-year period, the back and forth. And then once you got but we got married. and We were married for 41 magical years.
00:07:14
Speaker
He was the absolute, I know people say this all the time, the love of your life. But John and I, John and i were an unusual couple. We were extremely committed to each other.
00:07:25
Speaker
And we had so much fun together. and you know Even later in our marriage, you know people would comment on, we look like a new honeymoon couple. We held hands everywhere we went, you know walking down the street in the movie theater. We were just extremely connected. And yet we had very independent lives.
00:07:48
Speaker
So that that was an interesting component of our marriages. I think that is very important, what you just said. the having independent lives, being able to know who you are in order so that when you come together, you're not like meshed within each other, right? So that that I've heard, there's this...
00:08:12
Speaker
this I don't know if you've ever read Khalil Gibran, The Prophet. Okay. So my husband and I, we read two of the Khalil Gibran things during our wedding. And it's that part of like like the like the pillars of a temple stand apart and the cypress and the willow grow not in each other's shadow. And that's like so powerful because that's what really holds the structure of a marriage strong. So I love that you guys had that as well. And then what were the things that when you guys would do together that were the, what, yeah, what were the things that you did have in common that you do together to keep this marriage with the spark?
00:08:55
Speaker
Well, first of all, we love talking to each other. And John was a really good listener. So, so that was great. I had my own business. And he had his own business, similar like to you.
00:09:09
Speaker
And we would come together in the evening and, you know, how was your day? And how was your day? And he was always very helpful with, them if he he may actually managed my finances for me for my business.
00:09:22
Speaker
and But we skied together and we played golf together and we traveled together and we we backpacked. for years and years, every summer. And it was just us.
00:09:36
Speaker
um We never took anybody else with us. It was just the two of us. And, you know, when you're backpacking in the Sierra mountains, you're away and you're alone.
00:09:48
Speaker
When we were backpacking, we could just walk into the forest and ask a ranger for a permit and go. Today, it's much more complicated. And there would be nobody around us. And so every weekend we would go into the Sierras and backpack.
00:10:04
Speaker
And we also had a tradition um that grew just so um organically. On our first wedding anniversary, I came home from work and John says, go pack some clothes. We're going on a trip.
00:10:21
Speaker
Well, what kind of clothes? Just casual clothes and bring something nice for dinner. I got in the car. And there were a dozen white roses and a bottle of champagne. And he took me to the Iwani Hotel in Yosemite, which is a beautiful hotel.
00:10:36
Speaker
and So we weren't backpacking. It was comfortable with beds and a lovely dinner. Year two rolls around. and I thought, gee, john John was so nice last year. He surprised me with a trip. I'm going to surprise him this year.
00:10:52
Speaker
And in in those days, we lived in San Jose. We didn't have a lot of money. And so i created a trip for us to go to San Francisco and stay in the bed and Breakfast Inn in San Francisco.
00:11:06
Speaker
That launched 41 years of anniversary trips. One year, he the ah he had the odd years that he planned it and I was the recipient of the surprise.
00:11:19
Speaker
And then the next year I planned it and he was the recipient of the surprise. We did, and that was amazing. Everybody knew you leave Eric and John alone on April 17th or around those days because that was sacrosanct.
00:11:36
Speaker
And every year we we honored our marriage. We told each other how grateful we were to be together. And um just just the idea of saying thank you for sharing all the gifts that you've given me. And I don't mean things that you open up.
00:12:00
Speaker
I love that because it was not just, yeah, a gift exchange. it was really, the trip was about spending quality time together every year on your anniversary, doing the things you loved and connecting.
00:12:14
Speaker
So beautiful. So in the 41 years of, When did you start noticing then the signs of dementia and when the things start
Early Signs of Dementia and Diagnosis
00:12:26
Speaker
shifting? Because that is a very, especially if you already know somebody's personality, right? And then the the little changes that occur. So take us into that part of the journey.
00:12:38
Speaker
So in April, 2017, we trip Europe.
00:12:43
Speaker
we were on a trip to europe And this particular day we were in Vienna and John was always really good at map reading.
00:12:54
Speaker
And he liked paper maps as opposed to using the cell phone and using Google maps. So we were had i've been touring the city and it was time for us to go back to our hotel room.
00:13:09
Speaker
And I'm watching him and he's got this map in his hand and he's turning it 90 degrees and 90 degrees. and I'm thinking, what the heck is going on here? And I said to him, are you okay?
00:13:19
Speaker
Do you need help? He said, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. And he he started to get more and more agitated and he could not read the map until finally I had to take out my cell phone and use the walking directions.
00:13:36
Speaker
And the whole thing was just really odd to me. We got back to the hotel room and he was not in a good mood. And I started thinking about i thought, you know, he doesn't remember when I tell him where we're going to go the next day.
00:13:51
Speaker
he doesn't remember. I have to keep repeating it. And also he was having trouble remembering what we did the day before. you know i And I didn't put two and two together. i just i just thought, no, this is just odd. And I thought, you know what? We're on vacation.
00:14:07
Speaker
I'll worry about it when I get home. And I was very good at compartmentalizing. Well, we got home. He was totally normal again. And I thought, oh, well, maybe it was just something that happened on the trip.
00:14:21
Speaker
And I'm just going to pay any attention to it. But then 2018 rolls around and I'm starting to notice that he he's forgetting more and more things. It was like, you know, if we had a date with friends, he didn't remember that we were going.
00:14:38
Speaker
or I would tell him something. and So there were small things, but his memory was starting to decline. and by the time by the time 2019 rolls around, he's starting to tell me, Erica, there's something wrong with my memory.
00:14:55
Speaker
And I say, well, John, we all have memory problems. I can't remember the movie we saw last week. He says, this is different. So we go to our primary care doctor and the, and John tells the primary care doctor that he's worried about his memory.
00:15:15
Speaker
And then he says, well, let me run you through this test. There's a standard test that everybody does for, to see if how somebody's brain is working.
00:15:26
Speaker
And I'm watching John answer the questions thinking he's doing better at it than I am. He completely aced the test. So the doctor says, well, you seem fine to me, but if you're really concerned about it, I'm gonna put a referral into my chart that we belong to the UCSF system, University of California, San Francisco, which is an excellent, one of the best in the country medical systems.
00:15:52
Speaker
So I'll put referral there for you for the Memory Care Center if you become more concerned. So ah my my sister is a nurse.
00:16:04
Speaker
And she lives in Wisconsin. And one day I was talking to her towards the end of 2019. I was telling her that I was concerned. John took this test, but he's, but I'm still concerned. He's concerned. And she says, Erica, if you're really seriously concerned, you should go to a neurologist because if he does have dementia, excuse me, the sooner you find out about it, the better, because there are drugs that can slow it down.
00:16:31
Speaker
So I reported that conversation to John and he gave me permission to make an appointment with UCSF. And he had to have, i made the appointment and he had to have a brain scan.
00:16:47
Speaker
And we saw a team of doctors on January twentieth on January the pandemic. twenty twenty the earth of pandemic And we visited with the whole, there were like five or six doctors. We were there for eight hours and they interviewed aunt John. They interviewed me.
00:17:10
Speaker
They ran him through a bunch of tests. And then we go into this big conference room at the end of the day. And there's this big scan of his brain sitting at the center and top of this big conference room. I'll never forget it.
00:17:28
Speaker
And the doctor, the main neurologist, basically says, you know, we've looked at your tests and we've looked at your scan. And John, you have mild cognitive impairment consistent with Alzheimer's.
00:17:47
Speaker
Those are the exact words she used. So that means that he was at the early stages of Alzheimer's. And at that point, John asked two questions.
00:18:00
Speaker
One, he asked, can I still drink alcohol? And two, how long before I'm a vegetable? And I understood that question way better than the doctor because
00:18:18
Speaker
John and I had talked throughout our marriage about what would we do if this happened? My mother had had early onset Alzheimer's. She didn't die from Alzheimer's. She died from a cardiac event at 63.
00:18:34
Speaker
But I saw i saw what Alzheimer's did. And I told him I never wanted to live with this kind of disease. And he also, he said to me,
00:18:46
Speaker
His brain is his person. He said, Erica, my brain is my person. And if I don't have my brain, there's no reason for me to be here. I don't want to live in a vegetative state.
00:18:58
Speaker
If I can't give to everybody that I care about, there's no reason for me to be here. So when he asked that question to the doctor, I knew what he was thinking.
00:19:10
Speaker
And the story goes on from there.
00:19:14
Speaker
Wow. So how old was he at this? So it's 2020. How old was he? He died 77 and that was in 2023. So he was 74. he died at seventy-seven and that was in twenty twenty three so he was seventy four 74 when he then finds out has Alzheimer's was there anybody in his family that had had Alzheimer's no no and
Preparing for Alzheimer's Journey
00:19:39
Speaker
then it yes it's it's just yeah it's right nowadays I'm like I feel I have a lot of friends whose parents have Alzheimer's or have died of Alzheimer's now it's becoming a little more um
00:19:53
Speaker
comment I don't know if it's more common or just talk about it. Yeah. At my age, I know all kinds of people. At that moment, when you when you guys got married and when he started to his health to decline, at what point do you have, or did you already have the power, have right? And trying to think of the word, not power of attorney. how is that What is the thing, the call? Medical, yes.
00:20:18
Speaker
Yes. Did you guys have medical power for each other? Yes. You did. what point did you have? We were doing good in having our wills and our trust and our medical directives done. um you know And we would update them as situations changed in our life, you know when our children grew up and we got grandchildren and that sort of thing. So, yeah, we have that.
00:20:39
Speaker
So e did you also have, then each of you had your children also in the medical directive as well? um Yes. Okay. They were secondary. Secondary for for you guys. So you he gets diagnosed 74, the process then from there to then three years later of his passing. Yeah.
00:21:06
Speaker
take us into that journey and explain to us a little more than after you go into that, we'll talk then about the laws yes in the, that are here in the U S and so forth. So let's talk more about your own story. Then we'll go into the laws.
00:21:23
Speaker
So now remember he was diagnosed in 2020, but in 2017, there was something wrong with him. And and probably years before that, Alzheimer's was working its way into his brain.
00:21:38
Speaker
um So he's diagnosed and one of the first things that John did,
00:21:48
Speaker
it was, I think it was in February, I remember this, he was talking with a friend of his who is a physician and who had been in the Air Force. So, and John had been in Vietnam, so they knew about weapons And we were in our family room having a conversation where John is asking this friend who is also a physician, how can I commit suicide?
00:22:19
Speaker
What is the best way to commit suicide? And I'm sitting there listening to this conversation thinking, what happened to my life? This is absurd. So then go through they go through poisoning and hanging and shooting yourself. And I live very near the Golden Gate Bridge. They even talked about jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.
00:22:45
Speaker
And with each of these, it's not easy when you're help with he was emotionally healthy. So when you're emotionally healthy, when you're not clinically depressed, it's not easy to consider suicide.
00:23:02
Speaker
And also he was thinking about, well, I couldn't do that. You know, I can't excuse my language here, but he said, I can't blow my brains out because I would leave a mess for Erica.
00:23:14
Speaker
So was very considerate of him. um So that got put aside. So we're Continuing your lives. John is still playing golf. He's still driving.
00:23:28
Speaker
He played golf with ah with his friends every Thursday. He played golf with me on weekends. And, you know, we're still going out to dinner. We're still skiing. We're still doing all these things.
00:23:41
Speaker
but you start But the interesting thing is I'm adapting to his different needs. Now, all of a sudden, I've got a whiteboard out. where every morning I put today is March 26, 2026, one, two, three, you know, exercise at 10, dinner with Tom and Cheryl, whatever. So I put all those things on the whiteboard so he has an idea of what's happening today. And then when he can't remember, he could go back and look at it.
00:24:11
Speaker
Or so that was one thing that, you know, or I would realize, um okay, I'm going to have to repeat certain things over and over again, or I'm going to have to remind him. john One of the things that the doctor recommended is exercise that is so good for Alzheimer's, and I got him a trainer, and I would have to say, okay, today's your day with Max, and you need to wear this outfit, you know, the sweats and the so on.
00:24:39
Speaker
So I would adapt. So there were times where I didn't really realize that things were getting worse so much. And our friends had no idea.
00:24:51
Speaker
And in the beginning, we didn't tell anyone. And even when it came to the point where it was obvious and they knew, they'd say to me, oh, John seems fine. He seems normal to me because he could sit down and have a conversation at a dinner table that you would never know.
00:25:09
Speaker
But I knew. because most of the time, this was later on, he was saying things that were simply not true. he just made things up. And I never corrected him because it didn't matter. And and I was protecting his dignity.
00:25:25
Speaker
So as time went on, um
00:25:31
Speaker
I decided to go to a therapist. I needed someone to vent to and someone who wouldn't try to fix things for me because you can't fix it. some The thing about Alzheimer's is there's no hope.
00:25:46
Speaker
Once you get, you know, if you get cancer, there's some hope. You can get chemotherapy, you can have radiation. With Alzheimer's, there is no hope. You're going to get worse and worse and worse until you don't remember people, you can't take care of your bodily functions, you can't swallow, you die, and that's it.
00:26:06
Speaker
And it can take years and years.
00:26:11
Speaker
Hi, I just wanted to take a quick pause and ask that if this episode is speaking to you, I'd love for you to subscribe to my newsletter. Just go to my website, Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between, and you will be receiving some of my newsletters I send every probably couple of weeks.
00:26:33
Speaker
Also, if someone has popped into your mind and you feel that this is something they would resonate with, please send them this episode right now because it may just be what they needed to hear.
00:26:49
Speaker
Now let's get back to the show.
00:26:58
Speaker
So, I went to the therapist. and One day she said to me, you know, there's this book out that I heard about that's good for people who have Alzheimer's.
Assisted Suicide Decision Process
00:27:10
Speaker
She said, I haven't read it, but you might want to take a look at it.
00:27:13
Speaker
And it's called In Love by Amy Bloom.
00:27:18
Speaker
I immediately bought the book from Amazon. And ah it's air it's a how-to manual. It's how to help your husband die with assisted suicide.
00:27:31
Speaker
Amy Bloom did all this research because her husband had Alzheimer's and he was sure he will he wanted to die. And they had not been married very long.
00:27:43
Speaker
And um she did all the research because you can't do it in the United States. And I can explain that later. And i read this book and I thought, this is it.
00:27:55
Speaker
This is what John wants. And It took me three weeks before I could tell him. One, i thought if I tell him on a good day, I'll ruin his good day.
00:28:12
Speaker
And if I tell him when he's having a bad day, he won't be able to process the information. And the third reason was i didn't want to tell him because I knew that if I told him that he would choose this option.
00:28:28
Speaker
So finally, after three weeks, i scrunged up my courage, sat him down and said, I have to tell you something. I read this book and I explained what the book said. He could no longer read books because he couldn't remember what was on the page before.
00:28:46
Speaker
i would give him books to read that I thought he would like and he they would sit there. He would say, okay I'm going to read this one. And then he couldn't read. But anyhow, so I told him about this book.
00:28:58
Speaker
And when I was through answering all of his questions, he said, okay, let's do it.
00:29:06
Speaker
And that was it. And that's what I call the beginning of the end. And that is, which, what year was that conversation then? That was 2022. No, it was, no, it was,
00:29:20
Speaker
nose Yeah, it was 2022. It took me two years to find this. So 2020 is 2022.
00:29:31
Speaker
Gosh, I'm like, just listening, it's like, it's crazy, like to have to think that that that is a decision that you have to make in a conversation that you have that you're going to have. Like it's unfathomable, right? ah is I swear, feel there were times I thought,
00:29:53
Speaker
can't believe this is my life. I mean, it was so crazy, absurd, out of the norm. And what you you and your audience should understand is we didn't tell anyone.
00:30:07
Speaker
That's what I was going to ask you if you by chance had told the kids or anything like that. no you did not tell anyone. We knew we were going to have to tell our children and then our extended family. But we were waiting.
00:30:20
Speaker
And one of the reasons we were waiting, and we certainly didn't tell our friends. First of all, we didn't tell people. I always think about it in concentric circles, you know the innermost circle and then the inners and then the wider circle.
00:30:34
Speaker
And we didn't tell the wider circle because it is a very controversial topic. And I didn't know how people were going to react.
00:30:45
Speaker
And I did not want my husband who had a brain disease have to defend his decision. So, and it and I had no energy for it to ward off all of the the, starting from, well, he seems so healthy to me to religious objections or but whatever.
00:31:10
Speaker
And I didn't want to tell my family right away or John's family right away um because you have to get approved by Dignitas. Dignitas is the name of the organization in Switzerland.
00:31:24
Speaker
And if you tell them and then he doesn't get approved, they've been in this mode of worrying and and serious sadness for no reason.
00:31:37
Speaker
So I convinced John to let's wait and wait. And we waited before we told everybody. Before you told. And then that waiting, there's a very fine timeline, right, of having to make that decision where it's his decision or where it's somebody else making the decision for him, which would completely change everything.
00:32:02
Speaker
things too, right? The outcome of things because of the brain being, you know, in deterioration. You hit on the entrance of the laws. Yes. And i so and I'll say this. Um,
00:32:17
Speaker
John said, John had said to me many times, Erica, you know, you're going to have to do this. You're going to have to decide the date for when I die because I won't be able to do it.
00:32:30
Speaker
So here's the laws, very simply stated. I don't know what Texas laws are, but there are now, I think, 13 states plus D.C.
00:32:41
Speaker
that have medical aid in dying laws. It's called MAID, which says that if two doctors swear an oath that you're terminal and you're going to die within six months and you are mentally competent, which means that you know what you're doing, that this is your choice and that you, it's your decision and nobody's influencing you from the outside, then you can participate in medical aid and dying in California and all these other states.
00:33:16
Speaker
So they'll you can do it at home. They'll give you the drugs at home or you with hospice, and you can have your family and friends around, and you can die peacefully at home in your bed with loved ones all around you.
00:33:28
Speaker
The catch is you have to be mentally competent and be able to die within six months. The problem is with dementia,
00:33:39
Speaker
Nobody knows when you're going to die. So you can't say that you're going to die within six months. And you have to be mentally competent.
00:33:51
Speaker
So Dignitas says, we don't care whether it's six months or six years or six decades. If you decide, if you have you if you meet the criteria of certain diseases and you're mentally competent,
00:34:09
Speaker
um then we will help you with assisted suicide. So you have to collect medical histories. John had to have two psychiatric exams here in the United States to prove that he was mentally competent.
00:34:26
Speaker
And it took me seven months to collect all the data and do all the forms necessary to get approval from Dignitas. And then they give you a provisional approval, meaning that you go to Switzerland and you meet with a doctor there who then talks to him to see if he's still mentally competent.
00:34:48
Speaker
um And then you get your final approval. They either send you home or you get your final approval there. So the problem with this mentally competent thing is that by definition, this is a premature death.
00:35:07
Speaker
So I don't know much more time John would have had before he was that vegetable that he didn't want to become. But I knew for certain reasons, i i knew that time was running out.
00:35:24
Speaker
that John had become delusional and his status had been upgraded to on the cusp of major neurodegenerative disease And that said to me, okay, i think we're i think we're there. I think we're running out of time.
00:35:40
Speaker
And and ah one one of the people, my sister, I said, who's a nurse, is married to a doctor. And they they were people for They knew we told them pretty early on and they were my sort of support system and also my go to people for, I think this is time. And and they would say to me, you've you better hurry up because you're running out of time.
00:36:10
Speaker
And um so that's that that's the big dilemma. And there I was smiling earlier. there There was a time where John said to me, Erica, we were so smart. We were so clever in how we take the right date.
00:36:25
Speaker
It just, you know, it breaks your heart when you think of these things. But john John was, there is a video. is ah the On the last page of my book, there is a QR code.
00:36:40
Speaker
And if anybody has the book, you can scan that QR code and you'll see a video of him. And I took the video sitting in the backyard. I went out there one day and said, just talk to me.
00:36:53
Speaker
And he started talking and he said, don't be sad for me. I'm not sad for me. Uh-oh. And he said, I've had a great life.
00:37:04
Speaker
Thanks to my little girlfriend sitting over there holding the camera. And he he truly was the most gracious a person in accepting his fate And he said, I had such a wonderful life.
00:37:22
Speaker
Do I wish I had more years? Of course. He said, but for my years, I've had a better life than most anybody I can think of. And that's that's how he went to his end.
00:37:39
Speaker
That's so moving. It's so moving for you to share that because there's this immense amount of detachment that has to be there as when you love someone, right, that much.
00:37:56
Speaker
And you had to detach yourself from
00:38:01
Speaker
from your wants also, you know, and honor his. Honoring his wishes. Honoring his wishes, yes. And that takes a lot of, yeah, love and and, like I said, detachment and selflessness, really, to be able to do that.
00:38:19
Speaker
when You mentioned Cahill Gibran. Cahill, yes. There's a poem in there about letting your children go. Oh, I love that one. Your yeah children are of you, or from you, but not of you.
00:38:32
Speaker
And I've <unk> i'm loved that poem ever since I had a child. But I thought about it with my husband, that i had to let him go.
00:38:45
Speaker
i had to let him be free. He would say to me so often, Erica, is this okay with you? Is this okay with you? And I knew that if I said no, he wouldn't do it And all I ever answered was, John, this is your life.
00:39:01
Speaker
You get to choose what to do with your life. And I will support you regardless of your choice. And that was that was my love.
00:39:13
Speaker
And that, what you just said right there too, because at that moment, the role is of a caretaker, which is what we are as mothers, right, as parents. And so for you to relate it to that part of the children, like what it's like ah the archer, like they're like the arrow, right? And you're just like, you're just there holding the strength. Yeah, i I'm very familiar with so many of the, that they touch the the way that Khalil Gibran writes, the visuals that you have and these examples are just,
00:39:43
Speaker
They're just so perfect for so many of life's situations and and relationships. So
Informing Family and Friends
00:39:49
Speaker
when did you tell the children at what point in that conversation?
00:39:56
Speaker
can't, I can't even wrap my head around that conversation. So John has a son and a stepdaughter from his previous marriage. And I have one son from my previous marriage.
00:40:08
Speaker
And um I was visiting my son sometime 2022, he lives in Chicago, and he I like to take him away from his family and have breakfast with him often just to steal him away.
00:40:23
Speaker
And um we were at this breakfast, and it was, I don't know, it was probably February or March of 2022, and i was talking to him about John's decline, and he said to me, Mom, have you ever considered suicide?
00:40:44
Speaker
And I thought, ah you could have blown me with a feather off that chair because I'm sitting there worried about having to tell him. And he was very close to John.
00:40:56
Speaker
And was so compassionate. And I said, when I finally gathered my wits about me, I said, well, now that you've asked, let me tell you what we're planning on doing.
00:41:12
Speaker
And his response was, You can't do this sal alone. I'll come with you. This is the part that just really gets to me because my son is my hero in this story.
00:41:25
Speaker
um He came with me to Switzerland and his sole purpose was to escort me home. And I went to his home, not my home afterwards.
00:41:36
Speaker
and he And I needed escorting. And he was so, so, so generous and kind and gentle. And so anyhow, so I tell him the story and he volunteers and I to go with me and I said, didn Danny, you need to think about it. This is not going to be easy.
00:42:01
Speaker
And throughout the period of time, I would call him on occasion and say, do you still want to do this? And he was always, yes, I'm going to do this for you.
00:42:13
Speaker
um And um we told John's kids, in his son and and stepdaughter, in March. So Dan was February.
00:42:24
Speaker
They were March. We were skiing together in Breckenridge. And um John took it upon himself to choose that time to tell his son. And I was in the room so that I could clarify questions because John got things jumbled up. It was very emotional.
00:42:42
Speaker
His son know just was a pool of tears and his daughter was just, that you know, it was totally very emotional. And then and then we had grandchildren,
00:42:56
Speaker
And by the way, when I told my son, i said, you can, of course, tell your wife, you know, but we're not telling other people yet.
00:43:09
Speaker
And then they came, the adult nieces and nephews, where I wrote an email to everybody.
00:43:18
Speaker
No, I'm sorry, the email was I told them that he had Alzheimer's. I had a dinner here for my nieces and nephews who lived here and told them then and the sisters-in-law and then the grandchildren.
00:43:35
Speaker
And that was probably the hardest because the grandchildren were exceedingly close to John. We were not your typical grandparents, even long distance. We saw our grandkids every eight weeks. We talked to them every Sunday, as the four them, and um extremely close to each other, and particularly John.
00:44:01
Speaker
And we left it up to the parents to tell them because I thought this is not something the parents needed to do this with their children rather than us.
00:44:13
Speaker
But my oldest grandson was graduating high school that spring. And we were there for that graduation. And that was tough because there were some final goodbyes because that was May. And then he was, we were going in July.
00:44:35
Speaker
However, the last weekend that we were home, I got a call from the two oldest grandkids in in Chicago and they said, Grandma, we want to come see Papa.
00:44:50
Speaker
And i said, well, Kyle, that's John's son, Kyle's coming that particular weekend. Let me check with him if it's okay with him because he was coming to say goodbye to his father.
00:45:02
Speaker
And Kyle said, sure, bring him on. It'll make it easier. So my two oldest grandchildren came on that last weekend and along with John's two kids.
00:45:15
Speaker
And they played poker and we went out to dinner and we took walks and we had a, it was it was a good good weekend. Creating memories and saying, those you know, really having that quality time with each other before the travels.
00:45:35
Speaker
Wow, it is just so emotional to hear all the story. And like you said, the ages of the kids range then from, the grandkids range from what? At that time in 2023, 17, 15, think about eight and 10. Yeah.
00:45:51
Speaker
seventeen fifteen
00:45:57
Speaker
think about eight and ten yeah So the eight and 10 year olds are probably different conversation had than the 15 to 17 year olds, of the parents kind of having different conversations with them as to what was happening, right? And as they get older, then they can know the the full story, but always with truth, which I think is so important to do in those conversations with with children. There's truth, but there's not not everything revealed all all at once.
00:46:27
Speaker
So Erica, as... As we wrap up, because there's of course, a lot of other details and questions, but all of that is in your book. Yes, please.
00:46:39
Speaker
We told all of our friends, I stole something from Amy Bloom that she did. I wrote an email to everybody and I had one friend who I had told, she was my best friend and I told her what was happening ahead of time.
00:46:57
Speaker
And on the day we flew to Switzerland, she sent this email out to my and contact list of everybody that needed to know, that we wanted to know. and um and And at that time said, we will have a memorial service on such and such a date and they should come. So they found out through email and some of my friends were very angry with me.
00:47:22
Speaker
Are there friendships that ended because of that? No, people got over it. they got Yeah. But a lot of it too is someone's own ah grief as well, right? Their own grief of that process, right? So you had had time to process and make that decision when someone's just given that information, it's going to take some time to digest for themselves, right? Yeah. So wow, that is just so, so much.
00:47:52
Speaker
So again, the book, is, honor ah let me look at the whole full title again, because I wanna make sure, because it has the subtitle. So it's A Promise Kept, Honoring His Wishes, Embracing Our Love.
00:48:07
Speaker
And it was released in twenty twenty September, 2025, and it's been out. And what has been the most surprising part of this journey for you as an author of sharing this story?
Conversations on End-of-Life Choices
00:48:23
Speaker
The surprising part to me is that as soon as I started telling the story of what happened, the immediate reaction is, where can I get your book?
00:48:35
Speaker
People want to know this story. ah It's an important story to talk about because we don't talk about dying. We don't talk about options.
00:48:46
Speaker
And this one of the first times, I think, that there's someone that's out there to telling this story.
00:48:56
Speaker
And sometimes it's really hard for me to talk about it. I've been on book tours and I've been in book clubs and I talk about it. And sometimes, you know, I get a little teary, but, um but I,
00:49:10
Speaker
I really believe that this is an opportunity for me to turn this tragic story into something that's beneficial to a lot of people. And I want to help these people. I've talked to people on phones and on Zoom to help them with their own decision making. I've had therapists recommend talking to me about it.
00:49:33
Speaker
So I'm very happy to do that. So the most surprising thing is how interested people are in this story. Yeah, that knowing that it that there are ways to have that choice, that there are ways of being able to have that choice. And again, the states that support it, the countries that do, if that ends up being the journey of someone in their own health journey and their choice of how they want to live and how would they want to
00:50:08
Speaker
to die. And that is, um it's just so, it's it's very, like you said, there it's so controversial because of that part of us, of the emotions that also are there. Like even just talking about it is so hard to think of having to make those choices, but for someone and to be in a place that they can make that choice still themselves, of course,
00:50:39
Speaker
is better to youno to some extent than when it's somebody else having to make that choice for them. So that's great that you have this book out there, that you've connected with other people and your story and your love story and your your journey with John and his story and his legacy is now going to impact Hopefully also making some changes as well to certain laws too, right?
00:51:05
Speaker
That apply to these decisions that people have to make. Erica, as we wrap up, but before I ask you the final question, where can people find the book? You say you do book tours. So we, of course, I'll link to your website in the show notes, but what are the best places to people? Yeah, well, my write website is ericabacus.com and there's lots of information on that website, um but it's available on amazon.com and it's available.
00:51:38
Speaker
I narrate the book for Audible. a So ah it's Audible and Kindle and paperback and hardcover. It's also available barnesandnoble.com. And it's also available at your local bookstore.
00:51:52
Speaker
If they don't have it on the shelf, if you ask for it, they'll they'll order it for you and get it for you. So you can get it anywhere at any bookstore. um Yeah.
00:52:03
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you, Erica. Erica, my final question is, is there anything else you want to share with the listeners that I have not asked? oh No, I i think i think you've we've covered more. Everything. um i think the one thing I'd like to say is that we take it for granted that we make our choices for when we're young.
00:52:31
Speaker
And we also make choices of how we want to live our life in our middle age. And yet for some reason, we let the end of our lives just go as willing as ah as it may without thinking or planning or or making sure that it the end of our life is how we want it to be And John had the opportunity to have an the end of life the way he wanted it to be. And i encourage people to think about it and talk about it while you're healthy, not when you're in the middle of a trauma.
00:53:09
Speaker
And to have the support system of people around you that love you enough to honor those wishes as well. Like you and your kids were in that process. So thank you so much, Erica. Again, Erica Backus and the link for her website and her book are in the show notes. So thank you again, Erica.
00:53:31
Speaker
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
00:53:41
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
00:53:54
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:54:10
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
00:54:23
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.