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Life After the Narcissist: Healing, Dating, and Reclaiming Your Identity with Melissa Rymer
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Melissa Rymer is a certified recovery coach, author, and survivor whose work centers on helping individuals heal, rebuild, and regain self-trust after emotionally unsafe or high-conflict relationships. Using a trauma-informed and spiritually grounded approach, Melissa guides people in understanding relational dynamics, strengthening boundaries, planning safe transitions, and rebuilding financial and emotional stability to create lives rooted in clarity, confidence, and emotional safety.
She is the author of Grieving the Narcissist: Mourning the Love You Thought Was Real, a book that explores one facet of the healing journey many experience after leaving an emotionally manipulative relationship. Melissa is also the co-founder of the Victim to Warrior Method, where her work emphasizes long-term recovery, personal empowerment, and life after survival.
https://victimtowarriormethod.com/ https://www.facebook.com/v2wvictimtowarrior https://www.tiktok.com/@v2wvictimtowarrior https://www.instagram.com/v2w_victimtowarrior/ https://www.youtube.com/@v2wvictimtowarrior
To get more information about coaching with Kendra Rinaldi or being a guest on this porcast reach out. https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Show Highlights:
- The "Sneak Attack" of Narcissistic Abuse: Melissa shares her personal story of meeting her ex-husband in a church recovery group, explaining how predators look for empathetic victims and mirror their lives to appear as the perfect "soulmate".
- The Mask Slips: A look at how the charming "Prince Charming" facade eventually falls away, leaving victims isolated, questioning their reality, and trying to fix an impossible situation.
- The Warning from a Professional: The pivotal moment when a marriage counselor refused to treat Melissa and her ex-husband together, privately warning Melissa that she was married to a narcissist.
- Understanding the Abuser's Psychology: We discuss how a narcissist's need to belittle others and their inability to accept failure actually stems from deep-rooted low self-esteem.
- Why It's So Hard to "Just Leave": Melissa breaks down the shame and self-isolation that keeps victims trapped, and why leaving a narcissistic relationship is a dangerous "war" that requires an exit strategy.
- From Victim to Warrior: How Melissa found love again with her current husband, John, and how they turned their shared experiences of surviving abuse into a business that helps others safely escape and recover.
- Grieving the Illusion: We explore the profound grief that comes with narcissistic abuse—validating that it is necessary to mourn the loss of the person you thought they were and the future you thought you would have
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Transcript
Introduction to Grief and Personal Stories
00:00:00
Speaker
a narcissist will I call life vampires because they will suck life out of you they will take every single thing you have to offer and then some and then belittle you and degrade you when you have nothing left to give so it's it's a very isolating um it's a devastating place to find yourself because you you don't know what's wrong
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray-In-Between Podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions.
00:00:48
Speaker
Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone. Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:11
Speaker
Let's start with a quick disclaimer. This podcast includes personal stories and perspectives on topics like grief, health, and mental wellness. The views expressed by guests are their own and may reflect individual experiences that are not meant as medical advice.
00:01:29
Speaker
As the host, I hold space for diverse voices, but that does not mean I endorse every viewpoint shared. Please listen with care and take what resonates with you.
00:01:40
Speaker
Welcome.
Meet Melissa Reimer: Journey from Finance to Recovery Coach
00:01:41
Speaker
Today I'm chatting with Melissa Reimer. She is a certified recovery coach, author, and survivor whose work centers on helping individuals heal, rebuild, and regain self-trust after emotionally unsafe and high conflict relationships. She is the author of Grieving the Narcissist, Mourning the Love You Thought Was Real. So welcome, Melissa.
00:02:09
Speaker
Thank you, Kendra. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm glad you're here. You're also the ah one other thing, too. You're the co-founder of Victim to Warrior Method with your current spouse, John. So that's another another huge resource there as well for the listener. So I'll make sure to include. all these links below for them to be able to access your information. and I'm happy that you're here and we were chatting right before we started recording. You live in Georgia and I'd like to get to know my guests a bit. So I would love to know who, like who was your nucleus family, your childhood. lets Let's start there. And then we move on to the family you built and then the second family you built you built after. so
First Marriage: Discovering Narcissistic Traits
00:02:58
Speaker
Let's go into that.
00:03:00
Speaker
Well, I am from Louisiana. I was born in New Orleans. So I have a very Cajun background. Love cooking, crawfish boils.
00:03:11
Speaker
You know, when I tell my family about water skiing on the bayou, they're like, isn't alligators in the bayou? I'm like, yes, they were. You would have to have an alligator spotter in order, you know, to steer you away if you fell during water skiing. And so Yeah, sometimes my now family is pretty terrified of that. They're like, it sounds like you lived in the swamp. I'm like, pretty close, pretty close.
00:03:36
Speaker
But very loving people. i've learned how to cook. um So I had a very, very endearing childhood. How many siblings? family Yeah, how many siblings were you?
00:03:47
Speaker
How many kids? i have two sisters and one brother, all still living. Very close and a lot of nieces and nephews too. So pretty much we all live in Georgia now, except for my brother who lives in Texas.
00:04:01
Speaker
So he's still there. We're trying to encourage him to join us in the Georgia family. Where in Texas does he live? I wonder if he lives close to me. He lives in Houston near Clear Lake.
00:04:11
Speaker
Okay. I live in the Dallas area. Okay. So that was your growing up. So lots of siblings, loving family, and then you go to college or did you meet your first husband out of high school? Tell us about that.
00:04:28
Speaker
No, i um I moved to Georgia with my company and it was in 1987. That tells you how old I am, but it was in the financial industry. So I relocated to Georgia and um was all into my career, you know, just really um had a lot going on in the financial industry.
00:04:48
Speaker
um I married young and had my son with my my first husband and who is deceased now. He's not the narcissist, but um so I was single a single mom for a while.
00:05:02
Speaker
And um i ended up meeting the person who I basically say nearly destroyed my life and then probably saved it because I am where I am now.
00:05:15
Speaker
But I met him in church. So it kind of brings that um feeling of church you can trust. It's safe. It's not that the church isn't safe.
00:05:26
Speaker
It's the people there that may not be safe, depending on where you are. But I was in kind of a ah recovery program for single people who are struggling to move on and are having a very difficult time letting go of the past, letting go of anger.
00:05:45
Speaker
and so i thought I was in a safe place. I really did. But my ex was... He was a predator. I mean, he purposely set out to find victims that could bring something to his life. Now, back then, I did not know what a narcissist was. I had no idea, none.
00:06:06
Speaker
And so he was looking for somebody that he could get something from. And when you're in a recovery class, you actually pour your heart and soul out, as you know. i mean, you tell your secrets.
00:06:20
Speaker
He knew i was in the financial industry. He knew i had my own home. knew I had a young son. He knew that I success, um but I was alone. you know and so he basically mirrored my background. you know His wife cheated on and left and he was alone. He had three kids. He was just looking to recover. Everything he said sounded like this could be the perfect person for me. This could be my soulmate. This could be somebody that I could spend the rest of my life with.
00:06:59
Speaker
And that's how we went into it, you know, and unfortunately with a
The Decision to Divorce and Its Emotional Toll
00:07:05
Speaker
narcissist, they do not show their true colors until it's too late.
00:07:11
Speaker
And so you are all in, you are, you literally thought you found your soulmate. You, Commit it to them. You're in love with them. And when that mask starts coming off, it is you don't know what to do. You really don't.
00:07:29
Speaker
I mean, especially if they've already taken so much from like your own, like, re A lot of reprogramming ends up happening within even the individual that is married to the narcissist that then even your own self-esteem, your own self-worth could be you know already manipulated and affected. So it's hard to even leave when you already find out that you're in that situation too, right? Well, it's and but it's you can't fathom it. So you're you're constantly trying to fix it.
00:08:01
Speaker
You're trying to fix yourself. You're trying to fix... What's wrong with them? Because your vision of this person you thought was real. You fell in love with that person. You fell in love with who you thought they were.
00:08:15
Speaker
And so when things start, you know, breaking down, I just remember, um I just thought something was going on in his life. You know, what's going on? What can I do to help? How can I be more supportive?
00:08:29
Speaker
What can I do to be a ah better partner? Because it's like he was becoming more and more miserable, more and more demeaning to me, more and more disrespectful, um more ah gaslighting me. I mean, you know, I was blaming myself for things and I was a hugely confident person until, you know, several years into this relationship and marriage.
00:09:00
Speaker
um I was really beginning to think I was the problem, that something was wrong with me, that I was not who he thought I was because that's what he was saying to me. and so I was trying harder, pouring more of my energy into him.
00:09:17
Speaker
And a narcissist will, I call him, life vampires because they will suck life out of you. They will take every single thing you have to offer and then some, and then belittle you and degrade you when you have nothing left to give.
00:09:35
Speaker
So it's, it's a very isolating. um It's a devastating place to find yourself because you you don't know what's wrong. You don't know how this person went from just,
00:09:50
Speaker
value. Prince charming. Yeah. Prince charming to then, yeah to to this monster. And, um and then it becomes very terrifying because at that point, I remember, I just, I got to the point where I could not live like that anymore. I couldn't do it.
00:10:09
Speaker
I was not sleeping. I was not eating. I, you know, I was a corporate executor and I was worried about my job. And so I finally said, biggest mistake in my life.
00:10:19
Speaker
I said,
Understanding Narcissism and Its Impact
00:10:21
Speaker
i can't do this. i want a divorce. And he looked at me and he started laughing, laughing. And i I mean, I'm hysterical. And he said, um no problem.
00:10:33
Speaker
Pack your bags and leave. Now, we were in my house. I owned it. He moved in with me. And he literally said, pack your bags and leave. I said, I'm not leaving my house. This is my house.
00:10:47
Speaker
you need to leave because I don't want the divorce. So you leave. And I'm like, Oh my gosh. And it was a war that I was not prepared for.
00:10:58
Speaker
i mean, I made so many mistakes, but I gated my playbook. I gave, I literally, was the enemy and I handed over my playbook to him he drug me through the absolute worst nightmare of my life.
00:11:16
Speaker
I mean, Oh, Melissa, that is so much. Now let's backtrack a little bit and explain to the listeners in case they do not know what a narcissist is and if they have in...
00:11:31
Speaker
their mind that a narcissist is just somebody that just looks at the reflection in the mirror and absolutely loves themselves as the the ah you know the mythological character, right? Narciso in Spanish. i I don't even know if Narciso, or it was I don't think it was a mythological character or a story that he would just look at himself in the mirror and like fell in love with himself and then- Oh yeah.
00:12:00
Speaker
What is the definition of narcissist and the different types of narcissist? Because some people do not know. Covert, overt, if you can please explain.
00:12:11
Speaker
Yes. And the word has been thrown around a lot. um When I went through it, i I did not even know what that was. I thought he was bipolar, split personality. I wasn't sure we went through marriage counseling.
00:12:23
Speaker
um He was violent. And so... you know There were rage issues and things like that. But a counselor is the one who told me after a session that she said, I'm not going to treat you guys anymore. you know he He's lying.
00:12:41
Speaker
It's not helping. And she said, you need to be very concerned. She said, because I do believe he is a narcissist. I had never heard that word ever. I had to look it up. I did not know. Did she say it in front of him?
00:12:53
Speaker
No, she called me. After a big blow up at the marriage counseling session, we took separate cars. She called me and said, I can't treat you you anymore. And she said, I'll take you on, but not you together.
00:13:07
Speaker
I believe he's a narcissist. And I said, I don't even know what you're talking about. And she said, I'm going send you some information. And so I just went down this checklist. And it's so funny because we actually created a questionnaire. Are they a narcissist?
00:13:22
Speaker
that anyone can take, it's free. But he's checked off all these thoughts. And no a narcissist, you can have narcissistic traits. most Most people do, not everyone.
00:13:35
Speaker
But you can be you know an egomaniac. You could be you know ah ah fool of yourself. You could be um selfish. You can have traits. It doesn't make you a narcissist.
00:13:47
Speaker
So when you start going through things that don't make sense um and how they treat you, how, you know, do they disrespect you in private, but then in public treat you like a, you know, a queen, do they change the story, the narrative to where you're always defending yourself? You're always trying to figure out, wait a minute, that didn't really happen. No, this happened. And they're so convincing that you do start questioning your own reality.
00:14:18
Speaker
Um, But when I went through the checklist, when she gave it to me all those years ago, I said, this makes sense now. i'm I can't fix this because somebody that narcissism There's not a whole lot of research on it because a narcissist doesn't seek help.
00:14:37
Speaker
They don't think something's wrong with me. Let me go figure it out. They normally are forced to by the court. um They have rage issues. They, you know, they may or may not be violent.
00:14:48
Speaker
They, their spouse may have threatened divorce. So they're doing things out of desperation. They generally don't see. I want to know what's wrong with me. So,
00:14:59
Speaker
When someone's diagnosed or or categorized as a narcissist, it's normally by default. And it's either genetics or environmental. My ex came from a wonderful family.
00:15:12
Speaker
He's the only one in his family that's like this. And he has no relationship with anyone as if and anyone in his family. um He doesn't have a relationship with his ex-wife.
00:15:23
Speaker
He's had partners after me that I've had to testify in court against. because of the abuse that he's done to other people, you know, after i I started this business. But you can be a covert narc, I say narc, a narcissist, which means um you're still a dangerous person and you're dangerous threat to someone else psychologically, mentally, emotionally, financially, but you're less easy to spot because they're quiet.
00:15:54
Speaker
They're introverted. They play the victim a lot. They have a lot of internal drama where you're constantly lifting them up, picking them up, um complimenting them, you know, helping them with their low self-esteem, but it's never good enough. You're, you're always failing in that duty. So you, if you feel 100% responsible for this person's happiness.
00:16:21
Speaker
And no one should be responsible for anyone else's happiness. But covert narc sucks that out of you. You're constantly, and that's John, my husband now, he was married to a covert narc.
00:16:34
Speaker
Mine was an overt, very grandiose, very Mr. Big Man on campus, always had to be the center of attention, always had to be the smartest in the crowd. And it's because he wouldn't let anyone else speak.
00:16:48
Speaker
He would tell the most extravagant lies while we were out in public or dinner. And as his wife, i'm i'm I'm like, are you kidding me? So when we would get back into the car, I'm like, why did you like those people?
00:17:05
Speaker
And he would start screaming at me that I don't know everything about it. How did I know that was a lie? And then then I'm feeling bad. Like, well, maybe he did have that. Maybe I didn't realize it.
00:17:15
Speaker
So being... this person outside the home that's confident and charming. A lot of times very charming. Parismatic. That's why I'm actually really surprised about your therapist, by the way. I'm really surprised because a lot of times it can happen that your therapist was able to see it because a lot of times in therapy, even the victim can still be even gas lit by the therapist because the therapist doesn't see that in the other partner, right?
00:17:52
Speaker
Happens in court too. Yeah. so very surprised and that she was able to, to see it, that he was not able to keep that mask on that long. At least it was surprising. And it was years and years ago.
00:18:06
Speaker
Yes. Because it's very difficult. I'm a ah certified divorce coach too. And, The lies that I've seen told by the soon to be exes are just unbelievable.
00:18:18
Speaker
It's they don't have a conscience. So it's they can lie about things and feel nothing. They can destroy you and feel nothing. it's It's one of the hardest things to understand because generally um their victims are impetus. I mean, we're compassionate. We care. we We don't want people to be hurt. We want them to be happy.
00:18:43
Speaker
And so we take this responsibility on our shoulders to create happiness for this other person. And it's impossible. They will drain you of everything in your life and you will literally be a puddle and they will walk right over you.
00:18:59
Speaker
I mean, I remember accusing my ex. I said,
00:19:04
Speaker
I don't think I have any enemies in this um that I know about. I don't think i know anyone that actually hates me like you do. And I married you because I thought you would love me forever.
00:19:16
Speaker
And we would have this gorgeous future and this beautiful life. And you hate me because I don't imagine someone doing these things to me that would not despise me.
00:19:28
Speaker
And that is what's so difficult for victims because the person that they gave everything to literally feels like their enemy and that they're hated by that person.
00:19:40
Speaker
It's like they focus all their anger on their victim. And it's true, they do. And they do it behind closed doors. And so no one on the outside sees it.
00:19:52
Speaker
And so you do look like you're making things up. You do look like you're dramatizing things. You do look like you are you're saying things to people that don't see that person at all. They've never seen that mask come off.
00:20:05
Speaker
And it's, it makes it very difficult for victims. isolate Yeah, that's isolating. So you had therapy. That was one of the places that that you were able to express and be seen.
00:20:18
Speaker
Where else did you, or who else did
Recovery and Support: Overcoming Abuse
00:20:21
Speaker
you go to when you knew that this was was happening and and that you shared with that actually believed you and was there to witness you and to kind of be with you in that process?
00:20:34
Speaker
Well, when I finally, I was embarrassed. I was like ashamed of, it's almost like I felt somehow this is my fault. Somehow I should have seen it. Somehow I should have seen red flags and people don't realize red flags happen very subtly. They don't just smack you in the face.
00:20:52
Speaker
And so a lot of people would say, well, why didn't you just leave? it's That's almost the worst thing you can say to someone because it's not like you woke up and realized this person is the is is a monster. So let me just get my things and go. You're committed to this person. You're married. You might have kids with them. You might have commingled finances with them. They may have now control everything.
00:21:14
Speaker
It's not as easy as what people think. Because it's almost like a sneak attack. So I did not say things to my family or my friends.
00:21:26
Speaker
i I was trying to fix it in the background. I was trying to figure it out. And one of my girlfriends and we call ourselves the Yaya Sisterhood. That's a Louisiana thing because we've been friends for like 40 years.
00:21:39
Speaker
One of them said something's not right. you are different when you're with him than when you're not with him. And I've known you forever. And so I was ah defensive with her and I'm, I just started pulling away. So I self isolated because I didn't want to have to explain things. I didn't want to have to tell people what I was going through.
00:22:01
Speaker
But when, um, after I, I told him I wanted the divorce, that's, that is when war happened. And, um, Violence and restraining orders and really the things that he did are just horrific.
00:22:16
Speaker
um And finally, when i was alone, beloved pet died. And so I'm sitting there and I'm just absolutely crumbling.
00:22:27
Speaker
She called me. And um she said, there's something sitting on my heart. And I just felt like I needed to reach out to you. And she said, are you OK? And I lost it. And I just started like vomiting on her, everything that had happened.
00:22:40
Speaker
And and i was afraid that she would either reject me or, or think that I was exaggerating, but I'll, she just let me cry. And she said, you know what? I'm so happy that you've been able to get that off your chest. She said, because we have been worried about you.
00:22:55
Speaker
People that love you have been worried about you and you've shut us out. And as victims, you don't realize you're shutting people out that actually want to help you and want to be, because you, you're so used to hiding things. You're so used to, um,
00:23:11
Speaker
covering up things and making excuses for this person who is absolutely horrific to you. And it's very difficult to finally let that go and then start revealing things, purging them because it's not safe to keep all of that inside. That's why one, a lot of victims don't leave. And two, if they do, they're stuck.
00:23:33
Speaker
They're stuck in the non healing phase. um And so, Being able to talk to my friends and my family who never deserted me, I almost deserted them because I was trying to cover things up.
00:23:46
Speaker
um Actually, that was probably the biggest thing for me. because Now I journaled a lot, so I was able to write things down because I did think I was losing my mind. um But that's when things started turning around for me and I was getting my strength back and I was becoming the person I was before I met him.
00:24:05
Speaker
because I knew I had a the fight of my life ahead of me, which I did.
00:24:11
Speaker
It's so interesting because in that moment too, it's like when you've already been taken, like your whole id identity's been sucked in, right? And you start even and doubting the who you are. And when you realize that, then you also feel and embarrassed, right? There's this shame and guilt, like a little bit of saying,
00:24:35
Speaker
that you're in this type of relationship. So self-isolation is a preservation almost because you're not wanting other people to now judge you if the person you live with is constantly making you feel belittled, right? You don't want then the society, you know, your friends and family to also then belittle and think you were weak or whatever it is, because either you didn't leave or because you didn't see it, or they think that you're crazy, whichever way it is. So it's very easy to stay in these dynamics for multiple, multiple reasons, children being one of those that a lot of times people stay with, right? So
00:25:13
Speaker
If someone is in that situation, we know you're a divorce coach and you help people in these type of dynamics. And so we'll talk more about now, the the now and you and John. But if somebody is in a situation like this and they're listening to this and they hear it and it sounds like them, is there ever any hope that you know of, of someone that's in that type of relationship for that marriage to actually work in which the quote unquote victim or the person that's not the narcissist feels seen?
00:25:46
Speaker
Is there ever any scenario in which it does? And I'm only thinking that it would be if by chance the narcissist does realize they're a narcissist and seeks their own guidance. That would be the only way that I would say that it would work, but that's just me putting my two cents. What are your thoughts on that?
00:26:05
Speaker
Well, the reason that we created that questionnaire, are they a narcissist? Because it's it's a scoring mechanism. And a lot of the questions are based on research and, um, you know, neuro linguistics programming and things like that.
00:26:20
Speaker
So people can understand if you are dealing with a full blown narcissist for the most part, um, there is little to no chance it's going to work because they will never change. They won't, they don't think anything's wrong with them.
00:26:36
Speaker
So you are the one that will continue to compromise, continue to, the the life that you have will continue to deteriorate. And
Can Relationships with Narcissists Improve?
00:26:45
Speaker
I've got a lot of clients who have held on for many years. Um,
00:26:50
Speaker
And it just, and and this is what I tell people, because when you're when you're dealing with someone who has just narcissistic traits and they're not a full-blown narcissist with narcissistic personality disorder, um you're dealing with someone who you have to realize there is good and there's bad.
00:27:11
Speaker
um Can you accept the bad for the segments of good? Because someone with traits is still someone that can destroy who you are as a person, you know, they can tear you down with the traits.
00:27:27
Speaker
Those traits may not be visible all the time. You may have seasons of decency. And honestly, those are the hardest relationships to live, ah to leave. I wrote another book called the half safe relationship. And that is for people that it doesn't seem bad enough to leave, but it's not safe enough to stay.
00:27:49
Speaker
so If someone, and I do have couples, that the narcissistic traits are are very difficult to to deal with. But the times of good and the seasons of good are significant. It could be six months of good, and then it'll crash down again.
00:28:07
Speaker
and the crashes hurt, and and they you know and the person becomes bitter because they had false hope again. And so that type of up-and-down relationship um is a whirlwind with your emotions, your nervous system, but it's difficult to leave.
00:28:25
Speaker
um And so i would say if somebody has narcissistic traits, but to the point where you, the the the receiving end of it,
00:28:37
Speaker
has tools and mechanisms to deal with it. I mean, and we talk about the gray rock method, you know, basically you become null and void and you don't engage. you don't feed that You don't feed the vampire. Yeah, you don't feed the vampire. don't don't give Don't give them blood. Yes, yes. You're literally as uninterested as a gray rock.
00:28:55
Speaker
And what I have to tell people is you have to weigh those um those situations because if you have to turn into someone else, to survive their episodes, um it's not fair. It's not fair for you, but it could be something that you don't have another choice. Maybe it's financial reasons. Maybe you have small children. Or in this case. Parents. Parents. So for example, right? So Parents is something, their your parents, if you live, if you're still a under 18 living with your parents, you know, you you can't even get out of that situation. So when we are an adult dealing with parents that are narcissists, then you might learn these behaviors. You at least have a space between, because you don't live with them per se, then you're able to separate a little bit and, and have those moments of boundaries, right. Which are so necessary which is hard to have boundaries when you live with someone. it's a little bit harder. Okay. So then that's kind of how the dynamic. So it really just depends on the dynamic, on the particular situation, on the person that is dealing with it, if they're willing to sacrifice almost part of who they are to continue in in that dynamic. Because the traits the traits won't go away. um
00:30:17
Speaker
Somebody with traits, might be able to recognize when dynamics come up because I have my clients, I asked them to write things down.
00:30:28
Speaker
um What happened not during the episode, what happened preceding it? Because narcissists are people with narcissistic traits, whole grudges, something in the past,
00:30:41
Speaker
can upset them and they will throw it in your face a million times. And so what I try to tell my clients who are are wanting to try to work through it because they have good seasons and bad seasons, I ask them to write down what it is that led up to this blow up. And it's very interesting that it has nothing to do with the blow up.
00:31:01
Speaker
It is something that you did or said that somehow hurt their ego. you you meant you said something out at a dinner that, You know, you interrupted their joke. There's something that happened several days or the day or the week before that led to this episode of them lashing out because you generally can never figure out why they're lashing out at you.
00:31:26
Speaker
It has nothing to do with that that moment. It's something that happened several days before. And so if you can identify that, those triggers that they have that basically lets, you know, that they lose it It's still altering you, but you're educated. You're like, okay, that is a very touchy situation. Most people would not have been upset about it.
00:31:51
Speaker
They are. That's something I'm not going to engage in because I know they're too proud. They don't want to admit of their insecurity. So they're not going to say, when you said that, it made me feel less of a man or less of a woman, you're just going to be attacked several days later because you left the the coffee can on the counter when you should have thrown it in the garbage. It'll be something ridiculous.
00:32:16
Speaker
And so keeping track of behaviors, what
New Beginnings: Meeting John and Finding Healing
00:32:21
Speaker
causes the blow up can actually help somebody just reevaluate the way they're going to approach a topic or a subject if leaving is not an option.
00:32:33
Speaker
is it is it Is it correct to say that most narcissists, the a little bit of the idea that we have is that they think actually that they are the center of the universe, which in reality is the opposite, that they actually have such less low self-esteem that putting others down or using others to build them up, whether it's their children's achievement, their wife looking like a trophy, what whatever it is, to build them up.
00:33:02
Speaker
is what they do. Is that correct? Does it usually come from a low self-esteem rather than a high self-esteem? Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. Yes, you nailed it. That's exactly where it comes from. By by be belittling others, they are the superior person.
00:33:20
Speaker
um And that's why it's difficult to, even in business with people that are that way, because it's their way or the highway, regardless of whether you agree or don't agree.
00:33:31
Speaker
I know with with my ex, he he was always smarter than everyone. So he couldn't work for anyone else because he was smarter than them. And I'm like, but you you your your businesses fail. everything you know I'm investing in you know businesses for him and he couldn't see it through. It was almost like rather than fail, he'll quit.
00:33:54
Speaker
And that happens a lot of times with with a narcissist. is they can't accept failure or people's views of them being a failure. So if they get to a certain point where they're not succeeding, they will walk away from that. They will quit. And it will be because of someone else's fault or something else's fault that they had to walk away or quit.
00:34:19
Speaker
They job hop a lot, job hop a lot. They'll have big, high jobs. But something will start deteriorating with that big position and they'll start being questioned about things. And the next thing you know, they've resigned from that company and they're on to something else because that would show failure. That would show that they're not as successful.
00:34:41
Speaker
um so I'm also even thinking of like, if they, if they have this idea, like this would make, this is going to be the part that's going to fill me up. And then it doesn't. And it's like, oh no, this is going to be the part that fills me up. This is what's going to complete me. Or this is what doesn't fill them up becomes the problem. yes So yeah you as the partner that they chose to bring that into their life and make them feel better, look better, seem better,
00:35:08
Speaker
youre No one can be that perfect. The bar is so high, we can't ever reach it. And so when we fail to reach it, we are the failure, not the fact that you knew who I was when you met me.
00:35:20
Speaker
You are trying to make me into someone I never was. And because I'm not that person, now I'm a failure. And so it's it's so tricky and it's it's so difficult to wrap your head around when you're in that situation because you're like,
00:35:35
Speaker
Why did you ever think that's who I was? I was never that person. But you're expecting it and I'm not going to reach it. Therefore, I'm a failure. I didn't complete that impossible task.
00:35:46
Speaker
that That makes so much sense.
00:35:52
Speaker
Hi, I just had to come on and just kind of interrupt right now this episode that you're hearing. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you guys are listening to this conversation. And every single time i hear a guest, there's something new that I learn and something else that ends up showing up within me that I realize I still have to work on.
00:36:12
Speaker
And if by chance, as you're listening to this conversation, you're feeling the same, that there's parts of you that are being stirred up and you are navigating a life transition right now that feels just heavy and stressful and just layered with grief. I want you to know that you do not have to do it alone.
00:36:30
Speaker
I invite you to connect with me for a free 15 minute discovery call and we'll explore what's coming up for you and see if working together feels like the right fit.
00:36:41
Speaker
Just check the show notes below for my email and reach out for details. I'd really love to support you in integrating these transitions with more ease and clarity.
00:36:54
Speaker
Can't wait to hear back from you. Okay, let's keep on listening to the episode.
00:37:00
Speaker
Melissa, let's talk about your work now, but also just how did you even like what was the work you did from leaving the marriage to the now?
00:37:12
Speaker
What resources did you use that then now shifted you to being now the resource for others and one of the you and John, your now husband being this space of helping others in this process? What was that journey from leaving that seven year marriage to then now? um Fortunately, I was with a really good company, had been in the financial industry in my my entire career.
00:37:44
Speaker
And
Victim to Warrior: Helping Others Recover
00:37:45
Speaker
so um I got offered an early retirement. And um that's when I was, I'm like, what am I going to do with my life? I don't even know. And John and I,
00:37:56
Speaker
met years after my divorce. He'd been divorced longer than i had. He'd been divorced like, I think, eight years. And I had been divorced like four years. But I had sworn off men. I'm like, i my man picker's broken. I mean, I obviously don't know what I'm doing because I thought this person was perfect for me. And he literally almost destroyed my life, almost killed me.
00:38:20
Speaker
And so I thought, I just am going to single because I just, I can't trust anyone. Because they are like charismatic. They're, you know, endearing. And so I'm like every person that treats me that way, I'm going to think they're a narcissist. You know, I'm going have a really difficult time. So I had to do a lot of self-searching, a lot of healing, a lot of getting back to who I was, finding my inner passions again. I love to paint. So I started painting again, just things that I had to start giving up because there wasn't enough time to focus on him and
00:38:53
Speaker
and do things on my own. So me as a person just started getting chipped away with all my energy into him, which is what happens. and And then you're left with nothing. So I wrote a lot. I journaled a lot.
00:39:07
Speaker
I did a lot of research on narcissism in general and I ended up coming to the conclusion that there was nothing I could do to prevent what had happened to me.
00:39:19
Speaker
What I could do is understand red flags. What I could do is understand I'm a whole person. i don't need someone to make me happy. I don't need someone to feel what's missing inside of me because I need to find out what that was. I needed to find out why.
00:39:35
Speaker
um And I did. And I, like I said, I spent a lot of time hiking and and just being out in nature, just trying to get back to knowing myself again, getting my confidence back.
00:39:47
Speaker
And once I, once I came to the conclusion, I'm happy with myself. I'm happy who I am. If I find someone awesome, if I don't, it's not meant to be, it was a relief. And so um that's why it was so odd out of the blue.
00:40:02
Speaker
um i had a, an employee, a man who worked for me for 25 years. He's basically like a brother. He went to college with John and they somehow reconnected like 15 years later. They hadn't seen each other in that long.
00:40:17
Speaker
And um and he texted me and he said, I know you're not doing anything, basically, because I i was always home. And he said, i have somebody I want you to meet. And I'm like, no way. No, I'm not doing a blind day.
00:40:32
Speaker
This guy knew what I had been through. And he said, no, he's an awesome person. You know, I love him too much to even introduce you to somebody that I think wouldn't be good for you. And so I said, I'm bringing a girlfriend with me because I need an escape route just in case.
00:40:45
Speaker
And so we went to this little place. You probably know you were from Georgia. It's called Avalon. And so I go in there. And so I'm looking around I'm like, Okay, you know, because like it was so awkward. And so i just remember my friend, he had a group of guys with him and they just kind of, you know, started talking to us.
00:41:05
Speaker
And John was so funny because I was talking to another guy in the group who was just like right, like in my face, basically, but he was really nice looking, he was charming. And so we were laughing. And the next thing I know, I saw these two hands grab him by the shoulder and move him out of the way.
00:41:25
Speaker
And then John replaced him like six guys. And so my girlfriend and I go. And and so when John um grabs him and moves him, and they were their best friend that they were out together, he and his best friend, they were out together. And he literally moved his best friend out of the way.
00:41:44
Speaker
and was literally right in my face. and And I just thought, wow, that was pretty aggressive. And so we just, we started talking and, you know, we ended up shutting the bar down. I will replace that. I would rephrase that bold. How about bold? He knows what he wants. Bold and assertive. And assertive. It was bold. Very bold and assertive. And it's so fun because my girlfriend actually ended up dating the guy who was removed from my, know, visual experience. And John and I, we just talked the whole night. It was really, it was amazing. I think it's a God thing. I really do. Because that night, which was, you know, 14 years ago, he walked me to my car and he said, can I see you again? And I said, absolutely. And
00:42:30
Speaker
I had never been with another person from that night forward. It was it. He was my, he was my person. He was your person. How, how many years later or months did you get married after that date? Actually, we, we, um, it was probably two and a half years, maybe three years. Because we I didn't realize he had been through an abusive situation.
00:42:53
Speaker
And of course, he didn't really know my story at the time. And so the more we were together and the more we talked and the more we spent time together traveling, um we started telling each other our stories.
00:43:07
Speaker
And, um, that's how I found out that he was, you know, with a ah covert narcissist. And of course mine was, I have a lifetime restraining order against him, but, um, we started realizing that we missed a lot of red flags, both of us, because, you know, he, they were on and off for five years before they got married. And then he realized six months later, I should never have done this.
00:43:30
Speaker
Um, And I went back to mine three times, even after having a restraining order against him, I still believed and thought he got professional help, you know? um And so people that shame themselves for leaving and going back, it happens so often. It happens more than not.
00:43:51
Speaker
And so once we started sharing our stories and what we, What we we missed and what we thought um that another person could actually make you whole, make you happy.
00:44:04
Speaker
um That's probably the biggest the mistake people make is thinking someone else can fill this gap or lack of happiness. It's just not possible. You mean Jerry Maguire was not correct of saying you complete me?
00:44:21
Speaker
but but I hear you. i i Even though that's like the most tear jerking scene. It is so true. It's so misleading. Nobody should complete us. We are whole as we are. that way And it's so true because when you think about what you're putting on the other person. By wanting them to complete you, you're literally wanting them. And, and you know, when you have a relationship, there's an ups and downs. And you're going to be weak sometimes and strong sometimes. Compliment. It's compliment. It's different complete than compliment. You compliment each other. Your strengths, you it's a compliment. It's like nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It is. Cause no one wants that. ah Well, and what I tell my clients is like, you know, how it felt to have all the responsibility to make somebody happy because you just thought you could think it's exhausting and it changes who you are as a person.
00:45:14
Speaker
So, um, John and I, we, we were, we were to basically living together. We, you know, we basically had we were a couple of relationships. a relationship Yeah. And so um after I told him that I really thought we could do something with our experiences because we know how isolating it felt. We know how embarrassed and shamed, and especially you know if you're a man. I know John went through a lot of shame.
00:45:43
Speaker
Like, why in the world did I let this happen? I went through a lot of shame and fear and you know emotional setbacks. And so when um when I got this early retirement package, which was just dropped out of the you know blue, we went to Mexico for two months.
Resources and Encouragement for Listeners
00:46:01
Speaker
We took our dogs and um we we just walked the beaches. We learned the language and the customs.
00:46:09
Speaker
And we were trying to figure out what are we going to do? We couldn't really retire. And so we were just praying on the beach. And i i I literally was like, John, we have to turn what we went through into something that can help people that are on that path get off of that path. so you know If they're lost, hopeless, isolated, desperate, don't know what's going on, don't know who to turn to,
00:46:36
Speaker
we can take our life experiences and turn it into resources that actually can help others. And it was it was like a wave slap in the face because we've probably never worked harder in our life in creating this this business, Victim to Warrior Method.
00:46:54
Speaker
And it's we have never been more compassionate about something in our lives. So it's been a tough journey. But Creating the resources writing the books. We actually have a new app and have a mobile app called warrior um So people can actually have daily tools that can support them and give them guidance Action steps to so they know they're not alone. So they know they don't have to conquer this by themselves They don't have to figure it out by themselves.
00:47:23
Speaker
They can actually take tiny baby steps and to you know evolve from where they are to where they want to be. And so it's been incredibly rewarding for us to create this business together. you know And that's why it's so funny because our videos and our skits, they're true stories.
00:47:42
Speaker
Most of them are my true stories, but John has such a difficult time being hateful to me. I have to watch. I didn't see the skits. I only saw the, like you guys talking together. I'm going to have to look at the skits now. yeah i'm curious really yeah are we Sometimes it takes ah seeing what it looks like to actually know that is what I'm going through because it is very difficult to explain and accept and realize and when we started doing the reenactments of this is what this looks like, this is what um you know financial control looks like, this is what um um coercive control looks like, financial manipulation, emotional manipulation, we actually started showing what it looks like
00:48:29
Speaker
And then then how to combat it. So it was ah it was a visual of this is what it looks like and where wherever you are. This is what you can do to work your way out of it.
00:48:40
Speaker
It was like a flip of a switch. It was like we had so many people saying, I didn't know what that was. I didn't know what it was called. I didn't realize that this was a thing, but you are live literally in my living room. This is what I'm experiencing. This is what I go through every day.
00:48:57
Speaker
it was ah um it was a game changer because we realized there's not a lot of education out there about it. There's not. People don't know what they're involved with. They don't know how to deal with it.
00:49:09
Speaker
And so it was ah it was a big changing point for us to show people you're not crazy. This isn't you. This is what you're experiencing. And this is something you can do to get out of it safely. so That is an amazing resource. And for people to feel seen and heard in their situation and to be validated by having people like you and John speak about it and support people in the process, writing books about it. Because you have several books.
00:49:40
Speaker
I was looking at your website. Some of the titles are The Half Safe Relationship, which is the one you said, the one that's like, Half okay, half not. Blood does not mean bond. What is, let's see, breaking free from narcissists' families. that was Okay, so that's the one about the family members.
00:49:58
Speaker
Oh, yeahp and then victim to warrior, which is the most recent one, the ultimate guide for narcissist abuse. recovery Is that the correct? Is this the most recent one? That was my first book. Oh, your first one.
00:50:11
Speaker
Oh, this is the first one, but this is the one that you titled then your website over was this one, Victim to Warrior. Yeah, okay yeah that was the first book. And then there's the exit plan and then grieving, grieving the narcissist, the love you thought was real. And that that idea of what you thought your relationship was going to be and that grief around that. Divorcing the devil. My goodness, you've written a lot. Rewire to Rise, The War You Didn't Choose. my Melissa, you're like, there's like so many. When did
00:50:45
Speaker
is A lot of them came from my journals. It's so funny. Over the last three years, a lot of them came from my journals, especially the first one, which which how do you understand what you're going through, put a name to it, and then the steps to actually recover um if you've already left and you feel stuck and you're like, I'm just miserable. I'm never going find happiness again.
00:51:06
Speaker
But the more I got into actually talking to um followers and coaching clients, the more I realized there were a lot of things that a lot of dynamics um that come from being in a narcissistic relationship with someone like, you know, ah divorcing the devil.
00:51:24
Speaker
That is what it felt like to me because the lies, the smear campaign, the the legal manipulation, it's very, it's torturous. And so all of my books have reflection workbooks, journals, action steps. You can write in them because sometimes reading about it,
00:51:41
Speaker
It doesn't connect the brain to actually writing down the steps to get out of that trigger or understand it. And so the the whole workbook section is, um I think that's probably been the biggest helpful tools to people because they can read it. Oh, yes, that's what I'm going through. And then they can apply the steps to get past that or recover from that or have some sight of where this is going to lead me out of this darkness into the light again, where I actually feel like a ah real person again.
00:52:15
Speaker
Yes. No, that's amazing. And you guys have a lot of resources. You have a podcast together. You do one-on-one support. You have then the app, you have the, the questionnaire that people could go then on your website, Victim to Warrior, and ah under resources, make sure to go there and then you can do the questionnaire and that way you know. You have empowerment financial empowerment series. You have just you have a lot of a lot of different resources that you offer your clients and anybody that can reach out. And that one-on-one support for people that are
00:52:48
Speaker
in the midst of like divorce or things like that, that's part of it, right? In your coaching. Oh yeah, divorce or even just, um if you need a ah safe exit strategy of how to even plan for it, because what I tell people is when I blurt that out, I want a divorce without being prepared.
00:53:06
Speaker
It was a war i didt I didn't, I wasn't prepared for that war. So being prepared before you even think about saying anything is huge. because they will destroy records, documents, cut you off of things.
00:53:21
Speaker
You literally will have, you'll you'll be fighting war with no weapons. And so that's why knowing how to prepare before is so critical. um For people that have already left and are stuck, that's where the recovery tools come from because people continue to self-isolate. Even they think just because they left you're goingnna feel this peace. You're going to feel like, oh, I'm free. It's like almost the opposite. And then you don't realize why it's because you've been in that fight or flight for so long.
00:53:53
Speaker
Your brain is now going, I don't know what to do I don't know how to, i don't know how to feel. I don't know how to live when I'm not in that constant survival mode. And so people just, they stay stuck.
00:54:04
Speaker
And so getting unstuck and actually taking, like I said, the bite side steps to get from where they are to where they want to be. is ah is a process, but it's it's something to embrace because what is on the other side of it is who they were or a better version of themselves when they get there. So there's a lot to look forward to, but it's just the small steps, small steps is what makes the big difference.
00:54:31
Speaker
when you start doing that. But um so recovery coaching, um that's where I started. When I realized that divorce, financial control, child custody, co-parenting, all of these things were such an enormous dynamic. When you do leave or want to leave, that's when I i went back and got the divorce certification so I could actually help people plan,
00:54:57
Speaker
role play, be prepared to tell their side of the story without becoming intimidated, bullied, you know, the victim of a smear campaign.
00:55:07
Speaker
So that's when, you know, that side of it also took off. So it's, I do both, both of them. If you're with somebody that you need a divorce, then generally there's, you know, children and finances and,
00:55:19
Speaker
things like that. And so it kind of just leads into that part of it. So I have many clients who they contacted me to, what am I dealing with? Can I help me get out of it? And then once they realized what they were dealing with, then the planning to actually get out of it is something we can do together. so So good to have those types of resources and that they don't feel alone in that process. for So for anybody listening, you know, you can contact Melissa and her husband,
00:55:49
Speaker
John at Victor2Warrior. might say, hold on, I'm like looking at the website right now to see Victor2WarriorMethod.com. So that way you can reach there and the link will be below. Thank you, Melissa. Melissa, I like to make sure to give my guests the opportunity to share anything that I might have not asked that you want to make sure that you leave with the listeners. So is there something else you'd like to share? Because you've shared so much. I could keep on asking more things, but want to make sure you get to share something as well that I might have not asked. You've been wonderful. Thank you. This felt like a very um easy conversation. and I appreciate that because
00:56:28
Speaker
um As you know, um people in this situation can feel so isolated, so alone, not having any idea how or what to do. And I know grief, um many people think someone has to die for you to grieve.
00:56:46
Speaker
But grieving the loss of the person you thought they were, the life you thought you would have, the future you thought you would have, that is that's grief. And processing it can help in their and the recovery and the healing journey.
00:56:59
Speaker
And they have the right to, they have the right grieve, you know, because it is a loss. And I think when people realize that, um they realize i don't have to hold this in anymore. i I can be angry. I can be disappointed. I can, have all these emotions that would would come through with someone being ripped from my life, which is so horrific.
00:57:23
Speaker
That person you thought they were was ripped from their life. And so being able to you know go through the grieving process is a ah it's a way to purge these negative thoughts and and actually heal and get on the other side.
00:57:38
Speaker
So it's it's I love your podcast because it it brings in all of that. It's it's the loss. So grieving it is something that I think people need to understand. It's okay for them to do that.
00:57:50
Speaker
That's acceptable. It is. it' looks is it good Like you even said, you went back even three times too, because there's still that part of you that still maybe even has a little bit of a glimpse of hope in that process. And you still are grieving what you, the little pieces of that half that you did have, right? The parts of that were good in a relationship. So you still grieve that and may miss that as well. So honor honor yourself in whatever journey and whatever chapter of your life you're in. Honor those emotions, but know that if you do want to
00:58:24
Speaker
change where you're at now. There are resources out there like Melissa who can offer some support like this. If by chance any of this conversation has resonated with you or with anybody else that you know that you that you believe are experiencing this, please share this podcast with them because it may resonate with them and maybe what they needed to hear too. So Absolutely. Right. Helping, helping each other. Thank you so much, Melissa. Again, this was Melissa Reimer here on the podcast. Thank you.
00:58:55
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
00:59:05
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
00:59:18
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:59:33
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
00:59:46
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.