Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Building a Will with No Overwhelm: Journey of Family Connection and Creating HeirLight with Jermaine Ee
50 Plays5 days ago
Jermaine Ee is a founder and storyteller interested in three things: how we spend our time, the work we do, and what we leave behind. His career has zigzagged across ed‐tech, logistics, toys, political campaigns, executive search, and impact projects, but the through‐line has always been the same: helping people make better decisions about their money, careers, and futures. He’s run financial‐aid workshops in low‐income high schools, built a startup to help kids confront their fear of math, and worked inside the Venture Capital & Private Equity ecosystem, studying how talent shapes enduring companies. Through Rotary and other efforts, he has helped lead humanitarian projects from Los Angeles to Colombia, Mexico, and Ukraine, working on refugee housing, medical transport, and frontline logistics.
Today, Jermaine spends most of his time on HeirLight, a simple and smart will maker designed to turn one of adulthood’s most avoided tasks into a fast, modern, emotionally intelligent experience. Born in Los Angeles and raised between LA and Malaysia, he thinks a lot about belonging, identity, and the quiet instructions we leave behind for the people we love.
***Since recording the podcast HeirLight is now also available in Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and Illinois by March 15.
***Chekout this link to get 50% off! www.heirlight.com/en/podcast
Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be a guest or for coaching information https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Show Highlights
- Navigating Migratory Grief: Jermaine discusses growing up across different countries like Malaysia and Mexico, and the grief and struggles of being the "new kid" coming back into the U.S. high school system.
- The Inspiration Behind HeirLight: Jermaine shares how a simple lunch conversation with his parents about retirement turned into a mission to create an unbiased, judgment-free estate planning app that helps families—particularly immigrant families—plan for the future without overwhelm.
- Honoring Immigrant Sacrifices: We hear a beautiful, tear-jerking story of Jermaine taking his parents back to Oklahoma to trace their first steps in the U.S., including a poignant moment at a Burger King that reminded the family of how far they've come in just one generation.
- Estate Planning as a Tool for Clarity: We discuss how HeirLight doesn't just record assets, but also captures the user's bucket list, helping them align their finances with what truly brings them joy and contentment today.
- The "Memory Dividend": Jermaine introduces the concept from the book Die With Zero, emphasizing that creating memories early in life allows you to enjoy the "dividends" of those memories for decades.
- Living Intentionally Before Loss: Jermaine opens up about taking his mom to Salzburg, Austria to live out her Sound of Music bucket list dream just eight days before she was suddenly hospitalized, reminding us all not to wait to live our lives.
Recommended
Transcript
Kendra's Salzburg Memory
00:00:00
Speaker
And at some point, my mom slowed down and say, this is the dream. When I was a little girl, I could not have imagined that one day I would be standing here in Salzburg and walking in the same places that, you know, these songs that I've sang all my life.
00:00:18
Speaker
And I think back to this really often because one of the things that makes me so grateful is that I was able to stand there with her.
00:00:30
Speaker
And you know we could have easily said, maybe next year. maybe Maybe let's wait till the whole family is free so we can all plan a trip.
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:43
Speaker
Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray-In-Between Podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions.
00:01:00
Speaker
Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone. Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
Disclaimer and Resonance
00:01:23
Speaker
Let's start with a quick disclaimer. This podcast includes personal stories and perspectives on topics like grief, health, and mental wellness. The views expressed by guests are their own and may reflect individual experiences that are not meant as medical advice.
00:01:41
Speaker
As the host, I hold space for diverse voices, but that does not mean I endorse every viewpoint shared. Please listen with care and take what resonates with you.
Introducing Jermaine E. and Air Light
00:01:53
Speaker
i am chatting with Jermaine E. He is the founder of Air Light. He is a storyteller. obsessed with how we spend our time, the work we do, and what we leave behind. And Air Light is just a simple and smart will maker that will completely change the way that we have this conversation with our families as we're trying to build our will, as well as their will, and as well as for ourselves. So I'm looking forward to getting to hear your story and learn more about you. Welcome, Jermaine.
00:02:31
Speaker
Thank you for having me on, Kendra. Thank you. we are excited to get to have this
Conversations on Wills
00:02:39
Speaker
conversation. My husband and I all the time talk about, okay, our will, our will. And I do this so often, right, of having these conversations about death. I know death is imminent.
00:02:48
Speaker
It's going to happen at one point or another to somebody, you know. So, but a lot of times it's one of those things that we leave behind. So this will be a very insightful conversation for the listeners because a lot of times it is the overwhelm that ends up kind of making us stop before we even start. So I want to find out more about you.
00:03:09
Speaker
Tell us more about where you grew up and where you live now. And we'll start from there.
Living Abroad and Migratory Grief
00:03:16
Speaker
Well, right now I'm in Los Angeles in California. It's also the place that I was born, but I've spent a lot of my life living overseas.
00:03:25
Speaker
So I've spent about a decade in Malaysia where my parents are from. So I speak Mandarin. I speak Malay a little bit and I've lived in Mexico. So I speak a little bit of Spanish.
00:03:36
Speaker
Ah, bueno, podemos hacer el podcast en español si quieres. Oh, no, no, no. Es muy difícil. En mi español es muy limitado. Muy limitado. Good job. Good job responding. So you've lived ah quite a few places. There's a lot of even grief that goes on even with that. That's why i like to even start with that of asking where people grew up or where they lived. Because migratory grief is a big one too. When we move, when we change, when our cultures are, you know, when we either left family behind or even just the culture changes as we move. Did you experience that a bit as you've been moving throughout your life?
Challenges of Moving Back to LA
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah, so I've always been this new kid in school, right? Because I moved so much. And I think the hardest ones were the teenage ones because I moved back to l LA when I was 15. And i think I started school in October, which means friend groups have already been formed. And, you know, I was that new kid with like a K-pop style hair. And back in 2007...
00:04:42
Speaker
K-pop wasn't as popular as it is today. And so when I started Sharao Kavint in school, and i was just not relatable to anybody.
00:04:51
Speaker
Yeah, and finding those those friends at teenage years. And with what grade were you and you were like, was it 10th grade at that point 15? Were you 10th 11th grade for me 11th grade? That's even Yeah, it's not only that you started in October, you started when these kids have already been in high school for already a couple of years. And like you said, already have developed some of these friendships. So that is definitely hard, like knowing who to sit with at the lunch, at lunchtime particularly is probably one of those very awkward moments as a as a teenager in a new school.
00:05:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think the hardest part for me wasn't that the social thing was difficult. It was actually because I came back into the U.S. school system so late that I didn't have enough credits to graduate high school.
00:05:39
Speaker
And so the first two weeks, the counselor had told me that it's unlikely that I'll graduate high school, let alone go to college. And so here I am in this place, in this new new beginning. It was supposed to be a hopeful new beginning. And it turned out to be one of the toughest, I want to say six months of my life because I was in a new place. I didn't know anybody.
00:06:01
Speaker
And I didn't feel like there was anyone that I can relate to at the time. What ended up helping me was I joined band kind of randomly because I learned how to play the piano.
00:06:13
Speaker
I am band mom. So I have a daughter who was in marching band. So I i can relate to that. So you joined band I joined band because I know how to play the piano, which, as you know, does not translate to the other band instruments. But the band director was kind enough to to let me learn more difficult instruments because I had a base of music. And so so that was when I started having some friends and things started turning around.
Finding Purpose in Helping Others
00:06:40
Speaker
I'm so glad you found a community because that is so important, especially I was was getting all emotional as you're describing your experience. that that first conversation basically with your counselor and already really not given that much hope of even a future. That is so crushing for a for anybody. But as a kid in these formative years to be told, he probably won't even get to go to college type of words. That is so...
00:07:10
Speaker
Just so wrong. You know, it's so broken to do that to teenager, to anybody, but especially a child and a teenager and to crush their dreams. So I hope you prove that counselor wrong. So let's just, let's talk about that. So you graduate, you have your friends, you graduated.
00:07:31
Speaker
Tell us about your career experience from there. It wasn't a straight line. So because I didn't have enough units, I had to do zero period. And I think it was seven period. So the the one after school, as well as take college classes in community college.
00:07:47
Speaker
And so two years later, I ended up graduating at the same time as all my peers. And so I was a very young freshman in community college after. And it was there that I kind of found myself. I think i I started coming into this version of myself that had a little bit more confidence.
00:08:06
Speaker
And where that confidence came from is I needed a job, a student job. And I realized that there was a job out there in my community college at the time that allowed, that took students who speak multiple languages and went to the underserved high school nearby to help families apply for financial aid.
00:08:25
Speaker
And so that was the first time that I experienced that my voice had power. That something that seems so simple to me, clicking a few buttons on a website, can actually make a difference in somebody else's life.
00:08:40
Speaker
So I think that changed the way I look at myself and the possibilities that I can have. And I love that you went back to high school to that very experience that could have crushed you. Then you went back to give hope to some of these kids in their own process, it a little bit different than probably yours, but it was still a hard process for them and that you were able to give back in that way. And wondering if that would have even been the case, had you not experienced something yourself in those formative years?
00:09:14
Speaker
admittedly, I've never connected the dot that way. I just thought this experience was cool. It paid me. And I like going out there. I like to practice talking and doing public speaking. And so that experience really set me up for a lot of things after because it also introduced me to more humanitarian work that I've done the decade that followed. Yeah. Yeah. The funny thing is that a lot of times the things that we do do afterwards, we don't even, like you said, we usually don't even connect that it has to do with something that we might have gone through because it's just part of that process of our own life, right? But um still, the impact that you might you must have had and continue to have, I'm sure, is just great.
Family Support and Loss
00:09:58
Speaker
So tell us about then your family unit and you recently experienced...
00:10:05
Speaker
major grief of your mom passing. In the moment that we're recording this, it's been five months of her passing. By the time it airs, it might have been a little bit more, but I want to honor your mother, of course, and honor you and your in your process and talk to us about that family dynamics. Are you only child where you have other siblings? Tell us about that.
00:10:29
Speaker
I'm very lucky. So I'm the oldest of four and my parents have kept us very close. You know, sometimes it's hard to believe that we really don't argue. I cannot think of the last time my siblings and I have a real disagreement. Aside from irritations, you know, someone's running late or someone is, ah I don't know, didn't do the dishes or something, like something small, but we don't disagree on almost anything.
00:10:55
Speaker
Partially because I'm the oldest. And so there's a there was a two five and two, five, seven, and nine-year gap from the other siblings. And so it really feels like we're best friends these days. Our group chat's always going off.
00:11:10
Speaker
And I don't know how my parents did it, but I took it for granted because as I got to know more of my friends' family dynamics, I realized how lucky I am to be so close to my family.
00:11:22
Speaker
And it's so good that you have that support system too, as you're navigating then your mother dying and the dynamics changing, of course, of now your dad ah being on his own. It's so important. I'm also the eldest of four. So i i and we've got that in common there, Jermaine. We got that in common too. So you started then this conversation about building a will. How did that start? And you now having this company that is in this formative stage right now, as in the moment that we're talking, it's available in the state of California.
Entrepreneurial Journey and Air Light
00:12:00
Speaker
other states to come. Texas and Florida are next. I'm in Texas. So let me know when it comes. guess you could put your email list on the website so that it it could tell you. But how did this conversation about will start with your own family for then you to develop your what's your company?
00:12:19
Speaker
So I've been an entrepreneur all my life. Part of it is not because of choice. Part of it is because when I graduated from university, I was either overqualified or underqualified for every job that I like.
00:12:31
Speaker
And so the natural thing to do was to just try to build something. And this was back in 2012 when everybody was, you know, startups was super hot. Everybody was trying to build something and I didn't really have the funds to do it. So I drove 4000 plus Uber rides in 18 months to fund my lifestyle while I was building the business.
00:12:52
Speaker
So all of this led me to around COVID time, when I think a lot of people were thinking about what matters to them and their family dynamics and just looking inward for ah a time when the whole world has been shut down. And so around 2020, I decided that I was living in New York.
00:13:11
Speaker
I decided that I wanted to spend more time with my family. And so it took two years to make this happen. But my my parents and I have a office across from each other.
00:13:22
Speaker
So we're in like a co-working space, but our office is just like across the hallway. And we set this up because we wanted to be able to work really hard and go to lunch together and go back to our meetings and then walk over to the gym, you know, and just exercise and eat together.
00:13:40
Speaker
At least when I'm in town, because I travel quite a lot. And so it started like this. And so one of the conversations that I had with my parents about a year ago now, we went to our favorite Thai food place, just like a routine, and the conversation of a retirement came up.
00:13:55
Speaker
So at the time they were 60 and 61, and I just kind of pride of their thoughts about retirement. And like many immigrant families, they've only focused on making and saving.
00:14:11
Speaker
And no one has really had this conversation about what how does it look like when you likely have worked all your life and what does it translate to for the rest of your life? And how do you enjoy it?
00:14:22
Speaker
And what I realized was this this lack of clarity of exactly how does the 401k translate? and And the underlying fear I think most people can relate to of what if I run out of money before I die?
00:14:39
Speaker
And so with this conversation, I started developing a chatbot that can talk to my mom in any language she wish, because she does switch between languages.
00:14:49
Speaker
And the goal of it was to just ask my mom and record everything that she owns, the relationship that matters to her, her bucket list, who was she before she was my mom, you know, the hobbies that she put down just to raise four kids.
00:15:05
Speaker
And so this turned into an estate planning app. Because what I realized was that a lot of families like mine never had this conversation. it And it it really, I used to think it's a socionomic socioeconomic thing, but it's actually not.
00:15:22
Speaker
It's just people avoid this conversation for whatever reason. And a lot of it is because we culturally, you know, we live with all the values and the assumptions that were passed down and we never challenged them.
00:15:37
Speaker
And so in some families where, say, Spanish is the first language, and if it's a Catholic household, talking about deaf is very taboo. And so it would be great if somebody can talk to an app that is unbiased, that is trained on the probate code, and that gives you definitions of what are things based on contextual to who you are.
00:16:00
Speaker
And so that's what we set out to build. And that's where we are today in California. And the reason why we're only in California is because all 50 states have different laws and different ways to authenticate these things and notarize. and And so my legal bill is really racking up as I'm moving across the country.
00:16:18
Speaker
Because you're like every state, you have to do a whole other process within each one. Right. To be able to have that be legal within that state. So you're like every state you have to pay a whole other fees. Yes. For yourself for to have your app available.
00:16:37
Speaker
Well, it's not the fee for anything. It's more so that when I go, for example, to Texas, I'm working now with two attorneys from Texas. And so actually one from Dallas and one from Oklahoma City who also does a estate in Texas. Because when you do have properties cross-state and many people do have families across state lines, there are wordings that needs to be reviewed and to make sure it reflects the the effectiveness of that state and then the requirements of that state. And so it's not so much approval, but more of checking with local attorneys to make sure that what we're coming up with is good.
00:17:14
Speaker
Yeah. Now with that, as you're saying that with the States, what happens when people, because nowadays a lot of times you even just said it yourself, you've lived in and Malaysia, you lived in Mexico, you lived.
Complexities of Estate Planning
00:17:26
Speaker
and So what happens with families that may live in the States, but have,
00:17:33
Speaker
either businesses or properties in other countries when it comes to, just curious, when it comes to building an estate plan or a will, how do you, like, does is it still like apply legally for something that you own abroad? The short answer is you need to have a plan for every country and possibly every state.
00:17:56
Speaker
It depends on how it's set up. And you know while we're in the topic, you know we i'm I'm not a lawyer, but I've spent the last eight months drowning in this topic and and talking to more than 40 lawyers at this point.
00:18:10
Speaker
And so if you understand the difference between a will and a trust, you should probably go talk to a lawyer because it's very likely you need a trust. And for the 70% of Americans that don't have an estate plan, and I know for most people, it is cost prohibitive to go talk to an attorney.
00:18:31
Speaker
But I also do know just you know deep in my heart that most people do need a trust. And it's just something an app cannot deliver yet. And i do think one of the struggles that I have is, let's say you come into our app, it's free to draft everything.
00:18:49
Speaker
I cannot tell you that you shouldn't use my app because I cannot give you legal advice. And so even though I want to really tell you to go get a trust, I have two hurdles.
00:19:01
Speaker
i Well, one, I cannot make a t trust in the app. Two, I really should not be giving you legal advice. And three, getting a trust goes from 179, app, Thousands, right? it It just kind of compounds from there. And so for most people, what we're hoping to do is to start the conversation with a lot of people. You know, if we are the first step for you to start thinking about this thing with someone, with an app that doesn't judge you, that remembers everything that you say and understand the context of your life.
00:19:32
Speaker
And it helps you think about these things. And yes, you can make a will, you can make a health directive, you can make a power of attorney. But at the end of the day, maybe in two years, you want to get a trust done. And so that's our goal. I love i love your transparency about that and your honesty with that. it's Yeah, it's you have to kind of see what is right for you. But it's a good stepping stone and starting starting place for this conversation. Like you said, so many of us do end up putting it
00:20:04
Speaker
back in the back burner. And a lot of times it starts with that overwhelm or like you said, or feeling judged. So even just starting starting that conversation with this chat box, ah chat bot that would then give you some kind of a framework is a good start to then go ahead and figure out what your next steps could be. It's ah it's a good good option. So in this process, you started then this conversation in May. You started the company in May.
00:20:34
Speaker
of last The conversation was about a year ago, like January. A year ago. Yeah. wow And so that, and then you started then this, you had already developed other apps. Like you said, you're an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur. And so when you started this and you're having them, this conversation with your parents, did you know that your mom's death was going to be coming or was a sudden? Can you please share about that?
00:21:00
Speaker
It was a sudden. In fact, one of the reasons why I'm able to continue and keep going fairly quickly, I think I didn't even miss a week of everything that I was doing, is because my mom and all of us were very close.
Learning About Mom's Life
00:21:18
Speaker
So if I had a question and I needed advice, I can i can just picture her answer in my head because we talk so often.
00:21:27
Speaker
And that's that's a beautiful thing. And because of this app, I got to learn about some things about her. that we just haven't talked about. And for example, small things like she loved dancing and she wants to get in shape, you know get healthier, lose some weight, but she wants to dance. And she was a little bit nervous to go to Zumba class by herself because it's a whole new environment and she just didn't have the confidence in her, I don't know why, but you know she she didn't wanna go by herself. And so my brother and I, we just went to Zumba with her.
00:22:02
Speaker
And we just look ah kind of funny. You know, it's the two of us next to my mom and ah mostly women of her age in the Zumba class. And it's very awkward in the moment, but it's such a good memory that I have now. you know, I'm just thinking back exactly to the moment and all the times when she walked out of her class just drenched in sweat after feeling so happy dancing.
00:22:22
Speaker
And because of this conversation of me building AirLight, I started asking her also, you know, what where are the places that you want to go to? And we had more of these conversations over the years, but now it became more structured.
00:22:36
Speaker
Now it became very intentional, right? It's like she wanted to go to Oklahoma to see the place where she first arrived in the United States. And so in May of last year, my my dad, my little brother, and my mom and i we drove over to Oklahoma.
00:22:55
Speaker
And we drove around the first apartment that they've had. Most of them weren't there anymore because it's been 37 years ago. and And we got to ask her about the stories of how it was like to arrive in the United States in the late 70s.
00:23:11
Speaker
And of all places, they ended up in Oklahoma, mostly for cost reasons, because it was one of those places where maybe they can afford coming from Malaysia. And one of the things that we did was we went to the university, we went to the places of their first jobs, places that some of them didn't exist anymore.
00:23:31
Speaker
And the most memorable but memorable one is that we went to the first place where my mom had a meal. So after she landed the second day, she went to a Burger King in Edmond, Oklahoma.
00:23:44
Speaker
And she walked in like she did 30 plus years ago, almost 40 years ago with us. And I was filming this entire process because I wanted to save the story.
00:23:55
Speaker
And she ordered what she ordered all those years ago, a chicken sandwich. And as we sat down, I turned on the camera and I asked my mom,
00:24:07
Speaker
how do you feel coming back to this place after all these years? You know, what do you remember from that day? And she split the sandwich in half. And she said, that day I saved the other half sandwich for dinner because I had just converted how much it costs in in her local currency.
00:24:27
Speaker
And she couldn't justify, you know, eating the entire sandwich that day. And we're we're very lucky. You know, I fully understand the privilege that I have.
00:24:40
Speaker
I went to a university that's always the most expensive university on the charts of the U.S. And ah just kind of looking back... I saw your story. Yeah, usc you're a USC graduate. Yeah, right? I am. Yes. Good for you.
00:24:58
Speaker
And I think at that moment, she finally sat down and thought about how far she really came.
Parental Sacrifices and Inspiration
00:25:04
Speaker
You know, and the fact that she was able to survive through all of that. Because in Oklahoma, my parents did lawn mowing, cleaning homes, restaurants. My dad even worked at a funeral home, just cleaning up.
00:25:20
Speaker
And I think there was a very distinct conversation that remember. I was 28 years old in New York City, and I had just raised money for my last company. And I called my dad and I told him, and he said something in in all of his wisdom.
00:25:35
Speaker
He told me that at 28, he was in Oklahoma working a job. um probably cleaning something or fixing something.
00:25:46
Speaker
And at 28, in just one generation, you know, I had just closed a round of fundraising for a few million dollars, walking down the Upper East Side in New York.
00:25:56
Speaker
and And he said, this is why we're here, right? This is what we came for. This is what all the sacrifices were for. And so that was a very memorable trip for us. I still have those videos. In fact, I haven't gone back to those videos since.
00:26:12
Speaker
I don't know when I'll open up them to to take a look.
00:26:17
Speaker
You know, in your in your bio, it said you're a storyteller and I am completely sucked into your storytelling. You just have transported me into that conversation of you you're sitting seeing your mom sitting there being transported mentally to where she had been you know, years before when she came in and the emotions that must have been for her at that moment. And then you can you also then doing that whole aspect of now relating it to how your dad could see that change in the trajectory of your family, just between him and you and just one generation, a complete change of what he had been able to achieve. But the amazing thing too with children of of immigrants and that they've worked through so hard is this work ethic that is seen. And I've seen this time and time again of completely like changing. I mean, I watch Shark Tank a lot. And a lot of the times you probably watch Shark Tank often too. Yes, since you're a creator.
00:27:29
Speaker
so i love Mark Cuban. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, I really like Mark Cuban. Yeah, well, he's not there in this season. But it's just seeing that a lot of the...
00:27:41
Speaker
and entrepreneurs and and are a lot of times children of of immigrants. And it's this work ethic of something really being possible and doing things in a way. And I can see that in in you and your own story. So thank you for sharing all these stories and connecting us with your mom and your dad as well in this process.
00:28:07
Speaker
Hi, I just had to come on and just kind of interrupt right now this episode that you're hearing. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you guys are listening to this conversation. And every single time i hear a guest, there's something new that I learn and something else that ends up showing up within me that I realize I still have to work on.
00:28:27
Speaker
And if by chance, as you're listening to this conversation, you're feeling the same, that there's parts of you that are being stirred up and you are navigating a life transition right now that feels just heavy and stressful and just layered with grief. I want you to know that you do not have to do it alone.
00:28:45
Speaker
I invite you to connect with me for a free 15 minute discovery call and we'll explore what's coming up for you and see if working together feels like the right fit.
00:28:56
Speaker
Just check the show notes below for my email and reach out for details. I'd really love to support you in integrating these transitions with more ease and clarity.
00:29:09
Speaker
Can't wait to hear back from you. Okay, let's keep on listening to the episode.
00:29:16
Speaker
So Air Light then, you founded it, you have it now in its process of continuing to grow. What has been some of the feedback that you have received from other families as they're already starting their process and of these conversations being opened up between them?
00:29:40
Speaker
I have referred more than 10 families to attorneys. Because as i as I look at some of these profiles and I have conversations with my users, I realize that, yes, I would love to have a user, but I have referred them to attorneys.
00:29:58
Speaker
And in that process, I've learned more. And this is where the point about uncovering that it isn't a socioeconomic thing. It is completely that us as humans, we tend to live on a default of what was passed down to us in terms of a mindset, in terms of a routine.
00:30:16
Speaker
And so the biggest thing I learned is this statement that I've been saying quite often, which is clarity is love in practical form.
00:30:29
Speaker
If you love somebody, one great thing you can do for them is to ask them the questions to help them have more clarity of their life, is to help them question some of the assumptions of the things that they're chasing.
00:30:42
Speaker
And so the feedback that I've gotten from some of our users is just because they're thinking about what matters to them, they started having conversations about Why does it even matter?
00:30:54
Speaker
You know, why does having a slightly bigger house matters to me? And typically it comes from a dream, right? My mom wanted at a home with a white picket fence. That was the American dream sold to her.
00:31:05
Speaker
And in California, that is a few million dollars minimum. And for example, the conversations I had with her was, sure, we can probably afford a home that you want.
00:31:17
Speaker
And let's realistically think about the mortgage and think about that expense that you would have per year. And how that translates to the rest of the bucket list that you have. You know, if you didn't have two extra bedrooms, we can probably travel four times a year, right? And so I think challenging some of these assumptions that we make in our mind is one of the the unexpected outcome of having a a chatbot talk to you about what matters to you.
00:31:49
Speaker
i I love that you're not only like gathering what they have, like in this conversations, right, in this chatbot, is what they wish and long for as well, like you said, because that in itself and even just our stories, our stories are part of our legacy. And we forget that though like you you you collected part of that legacy by traveling with your parents to Oklahoma and videoing that you have something that is way more valuable than any monetary or property, or jewelry, anything that your mom could have left. You have her story right there and her legacy and the way that she addressed life with that video that you did, right? So if in your app, the fact that you include that, that bucket,
00:32:49
Speaker
list part of it, right? That the person can start saying the things that they want so that they can maybe reassess what they think is priority right now, I think is genius. It is just so important for us to reassess in our own lives.
00:33:07
Speaker
We are right now very, very focused on estate planning because it's a very tangible thing that we can do. Yes. And AirLight, in my vision for AirLight,
00:33:19
Speaker
shouldn't only be an estate planning app because our goal is clarity. Airlight is a company about clarity. And so it some of the things that we've worked on, and these are not live yet, including the bucket list, it's it's live to a beta users. So if you download it today, you may not see that.
00:33:38
Speaker
um Our things, for example, you know in our family group chat, my parents would often screenshot something and ask the four of us, is this a scam? And so in the future, we' we're testing something where we can include ah this AI into your group chat, where if the parent asks that, the kids can answer and the AI can validate and say, Jermaine's right.
00:34:03
Speaker
This looks like a scam to me. ah Do not click on the link. Something like that. Right. So I'm thinking everything. I've built this essentially for for my mom. I just imagine what kind of tools can help her live more fully.
00:34:18
Speaker
And one of it that were we haven't started yet is to do bucket list ah travel planning. So if you have said at some point in your conversations with our chatbot that I want to go see the Times Square ball drop for whatever reason that is on your bucket list. And I've done it. It's it's pretty cool. But it's a once in a lifetime thing. I probably would not do it again.
00:34:45
Speaker
then we have enough information about you, where you live, and the kind of travel, the people that matters to you, and plus minus your socioeconomic status to help you plan the entire trip. right To understand today, you this season of your life, you're still able to stand outside for 12 hours at a time.
00:35:05
Speaker
But when you're 80 years old, that bucket list is not really possible anymore. And so one of the things that I'm obsessed with, which is to help people see that there is a season of life that they can do something.
Passion for Travel
00:35:20
Speaker
When I was in my 20s, I was working so much. And I didn't do the entire like European backpacking in a hostel thing. And so now that I'm 34, I don't really want to go stay in a youth hostel. you know It's like, i I can do it. I look young enough, I can probably pass. But the feeling is totally different.
00:35:42
Speaker
Yeah, i've they I was just going to say, i I would have not thought you were 34. only knew you were past 28 because you mentioned the conversation with your dad when you were 28. I'm like, oh, I thought you were. Yeah, so that so right now you would completely change the route of maybe how you would explore Europe even right at this moment, you would probably change it. Mm-hmm.
00:36:04
Speaker
Yeah, now I would probably stay in a nicer hotel and and relax a little bit more, you know, and just take my time. And I don't even know what I would do at these days. um but But there's a season for life now, which is right before I have kids. I want to go to places that are a little bit more kid-friendly, kid-unfriendly. So last year, my partner and I went to India.
00:36:27
Speaker
You know, we went to see the Taj Mahal. And then we flew over to Kathmandu in Nepal and went to visit the birthplace of Buddha. And these things are just, the infrastructure is just not there. And so when we do have kids in the next few years, I'm not going to be able to do that.
00:36:42
Speaker
Oh, do it as easily. And so then I'll probably go to Copenhagen, you know, with a stroller because it's easier. And so I think one of the things that I'm really obsessed with, it's like,
00:36:55
Speaker
there There is a time of our life in this season of our life that we can do some things that makes more sense. And yes, like our society in the US is so driven by productivity.
00:37:09
Speaker
It's all about money. Can you save? When I first learned Spanish, I learned that there's two ways to say happy. Feliz and contento. right But in the US, in the English, there's no we don't use content.
00:37:24
Speaker
We only use happy as an active thing. and And I think now it's so important to me to to have this conversation with my closest friends to say, what does content look like for you?
00:37:36
Speaker
and And if you know that, perhaps you can spend a little bit more on the things that would truly let you talk about an experience for the rest of your life. you know I can talk about some things that I did. i went to Oktoberfest two years ago.
00:37:52
Speaker
I can talk about that forever. I talk about it often. You know, i've I've road trip across Mexico in 13 states to eat tacos. That's a crazy thing that only someone in their 20s and 30s can do. i think it would not be so responsible later on.
00:38:08
Speaker
um And I think... Did I read somewhere you're from Colombia? Yeah. I am. Is that right? So I've been to Medellin and when I was... Did you have bandeja paisa?
00:38:20
Speaker
Did you have a bandeja paisa in Medellin? think so. That's the one with the beans, the rice, the ground meat next to it, a fried egg on top with like pork belly, fried pork belly. Okay. That's like yes the poor traditional from Medellin.
00:38:34
Speaker
Yeah. um We actually went to Medellin in 2014 on a humanitarian trip. And so we went to Medellin, we hung out there and then we drove two hours with military escort to a small village and was able to build a community center, a library, and even delivered a ah ah few machines. it's like to numb the pain. I forgot what that machine exactly is called.
00:38:59
Speaker
And in 2014, we did that. And I still talk about that trip until today. And there's a concept called the memory dividend by this this guy, Bill Perkins. His book is called Die With Zero, which essentially says like we think about dividends in money, but we should also consider thinking about dividends in memory.
00:39:18
Speaker
Because the earlier that you acquire a memory, the longer you have in your life to talk about it and think about it and be happy just living through it again. That makes so much sense. I love that concept. I'm going to have to i'm tell me the name of that author again.
00:39:35
Speaker
Bill Perkins, Die With Zero. Because it is so true. And a lot of times, like for me, most most of the times I remanence, of course, of things of my life.
00:39:48
Speaker
childhood or my teenage years, and you're constantly reliving these memories from before. So yes, I love that, the value of creating those memories now so that you have a longer time of it being invested, quote unquote, because you've invested it in your brain memory too, and in your in your life experience. I love that.
00:40:11
Speaker
You've done so many things, Jermaine, in your very still short life. One of the things that I can see is that part of impact, of creating impact and giving back. You started doing that straight from college, you know doing that, giving back to high schools. And now you're saying about humanitarian efforts in other countries, including mine. ah where And who do you see that in your own family?
Legacy of Service
00:40:46
Speaker
Who or for where do you see that, that it is now something that's a legacy that's now living through you?
00:40:53
Speaker
It's my parents. You know, they they both do it in their own way. My dad is very active. he He has grand ideas and he executes them to try to make other people's lives better.
00:41:05
Speaker
And for my mom, it's it's a bit smaller. You know we grew up watching my mom in the rain walk out of her car to push another car that's stranded on the side of the road. And like as I'm telling you this, I'm seeing that exact image of her doing that.
00:41:21
Speaker
because she's done it multiple times. And so since her passing, I have been more present when I'm around people who may need my help. And you know my my girlfriend and I, we would drive somewhere and I'll walk by someone on the streets and we walk by them and she would look at me And she would say, your mom would have helped them.
00:41:43
Speaker
And then we would go find an ATM and go back to them. And we've been doing this more. I think life gets kind of busy. And admittedly, i just a lot of things just pass me by. And so...
00:41:55
Speaker
Now, as ah in her honor, I try to just give a little bit everywhere I go. And yeah, i'm very I genuinely feel like I've won the lottery because my mom has so much empathy for the world. And my dad has this unrelentless tenacity to keep going, even when things are difficult.
00:42:16
Speaker
And to not judge himself too harshly and just to keep going. And so the combination of those two is quite magical. Beautiful. And are your other siblings, I know you're the oldest one. Do any of your other siblings also carry on some of these traits as well that they've seen? And by the way, as you're saying that you remember your mom, like, but you know, getting out in the rain, there's certain situations that like that, when my kids were little and be like, why did you go and help that kid that was walking? And they would get was like,
00:42:50
Speaker
upset. like you know But I'm like, well, there was not another adult there. like How was I not going to help that kid in the playground or whatever? you know um But i as you're saying this and knowing that certain things like this stuck with you, I know that those memories would stick with them as well as you're telling me now as an adult of some of these memories of your mom. But yeah, are your other siblings, did they pick up in their own lives some of these qualities as well?
00:43:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think the four of us are similar in that way. You know, my my sister does that. One of my brothers an optometrist. So he's in medical school. He also volunteered a lot.
00:43:28
Speaker
I have no idea. He's done so much. He's pretty young still. And then my youngest brother, when he graduated from university, I gifted him an air ticket to anywhere in the world with one condition.
00:43:41
Speaker
He had to volunteer to do something for a stranger. And what he ended up choosing in 2022 was he went on a one-way ticket to Poland and he worked in a refugee center for those Ukrainians who were running away from war The first week there, it was difficult.
00:44:02
Speaker
He called home. you know He was in a place where nobody looked like him, spoke like him. nobody he didn't understand how to even buy things in a grocery store because it was such a different world.
00:44:14
Speaker
yeah And my mom being the mom, she's like, you can come home. you know it's It's okay. But we had this conversation and my brother decided himself that he wanted to stay.
00:44:25
Speaker
He wanted to just push through. And... And a day by day, it became three months and he ended up helping them fundraise. He worked with the the Ukrainians there and and built this incredible experience that I think changed him.
00:44:41
Speaker
Like he got way more out of everything that he did because he became a more confident person to to truly believe that, you know, as long as he's smart, he's paid attention, everything, he can figure it out.
00:44:56
Speaker
What you're saying right now is recalling, I was listening to this book called The Second Mountain. I can't recall who the author is, but it it has to do with how people end up choosing sometimes in their life, a career that takes them, that's the first mountain that takes the you know the the things that you get, the status and all that. And then you come down to this valley and then that second mountain, it's usually more service driven, something that is like a passion of yours.
00:45:25
Speaker
But a lot of of times people end up building that first mountain first. And that if we do do that in a way that it's all geared towards service and really focusing on what others need in our first mountain, then we can live in a life that is just more fuller and not constantly searching for that other mountain. And I can see that in your siblings and yourself, you guys have done it in that way of going up that, you know, living and working towards that that mountain that is that of of, service and your first mountain is the what most of us are building in that second mountain so really kudos to your parents for creating that foundation of who you guys are now and to your mom what is your mom's name so we can honor her here she and she goes by mc mc and your dad has it goes by ken
00:46:22
Speaker
ken Ken and MC, Ken is one of my nicknames as Kendra, one of my nicknames as Ken because of Kendra. likeman yeah um So Ken and MC did a fantastic job with how they raised you and your siblings to be able to look at life in a way that's very different in in a way that it's all geared towards serving others. And it's beautiful that you're being able to give back in in that way, creating the things that you do and that do spark these conversations. and and
00:46:53
Speaker
and help other families be able to to help their own ah parents as they're aging and then also help themselves. So thank you, Jermaine, for sharing this. Yeah, I think it keeps me going. You know, as you understand this probably very well, that most of the world live in communities, communal cultures, generational households. And only in this country, we are low aging.
00:47:19
Speaker
You know, more people are alone towards the end of their life than than ever before. And think this individualistic society has caused a lot of anxiety for people thinking too much about the I, the me, what what am I going to do?
00:47:34
Speaker
How much do I have? And I am now starting to introduce more of the other side of my culture, which is this more communal, maybe a little bit stoic, like stoicism style.
00:47:45
Speaker
ah It's probably a crossover between that and Buddhism back into my life because I can see a lot of the benefits of living closer to the people that that matters.
00:47:58
Speaker
I actually heard this story through somebody else that there was a lady who helped work on a book called predictably irrational. So she had made money sometime in her career.
00:48:13
Speaker
And what she did that stood out to me was that a lot of people, when they make money, they move into a gated community or bigger house away from possibly away from their friends and away from their family, uh, just to have more space. And,
00:48:28
Speaker
What in instead this fact this lady did, because she's a social psychologist, she knew that the key indicator of happiness is to have the people that you care about in close proximity to you.
00:48:41
Speaker
So instead of taking her money to buy a bigger house, she bought up the apartment units close to her. And then she rented it out below market rate to the people that she liked. And so that her kids can now be surrounded by this ecosystem. You know you can walk down the the hallway and see somebody you like. And that that increases the happiness ah by a lot and and all aspects of life.
00:49:05
Speaker
And so back to get into this theme of like just challenging why we do what we do and having more clarity of what is enough. you know i I find it fascinating that we've come a full circle in in this country where individualism has pushed us into this loneliness.
00:49:23
Speaker
And now everything that people are craving for is just community and belonging once again. Yes, connection. And it's it's being seen a lot in this new generation. And it's like ah we went through this cycle of, it's like we're we're constantly right evolving and we go through different cycles as humanity and we can see that back again, community being so important and connection. And I think we all felt that disconnect globally when we went through the isolation period during COVID too, that then we are like even more of this
00:49:59
Speaker
thirsting for more of this human connection now. So yeah, thank you for bringing that up in that story. I like that. I want live in her unit, in her apartment, that lady's apartment unit. And that's what we tried to do. That is how it was growing up.
00:50:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's what it was growing up. You could just go down the street and be with your friends. When I first moved to New York, I lived in Washington Heights, which is a Dominican neighborhood. And the abuelita next to me, she would cook for me because she knew that I was alone. And or she also tried to introduce her granddaughter who was way too young to be dating me. But it's it's so lovely. And I miss that. i do I am that weird person that talks to my neighbors.
00:50:39
Speaker
And it's also one of the reasons why my parents got a office together her across the street. Yeah. And the fact that you would be able to go out to lunch. And i was just thinking of that as you were sharing that you did do that in your own way, you know, with your businesses and being able to do that. So thank you again. Now, before we close off and I have a final question at the end, let's tell people how they can find AirLite and get in touch with you as well. And I'll make sure to put that in the show notes.
00:51:09
Speaker
Yeah, I'm pretty easily found. I'm Jermaine E everywhere. um And E is the letter e and another E next to it. Yeah, my my last name is E.E. Jermaine.
00:51:20
Speaker
And i'm I'm that everywhere pretty easily defined. My email jermaine at airlight.com if you have something yeah you want to ask me. And Airlight is spelled H-E-I-R-L-I-G-H-T. We are building. And so depending on when you're listening to this, we may already be in your state.
00:51:36
Speaker
Our target is to get to half of the 360 million Americans by the end of this year. And so we're racing towards that. It's a pretty big task, but we we're so mission driven. We're very focused. And I cannot wait to hear more stories of people just getting their their documents done, but more importantly, ah discovering something about their life as they're thinking about this.
00:52:01
Speaker
Love it. Thank you, Jermaine. Jermaine, I like to finish off always asking my guests if there is something else you'd like to share with the listeners that I have not asked.
00:52:16
Speaker
We, in July, went to Salzburg, Austria.
Salzburg Trip Fulfillment
00:52:24
Speaker
ah We being my girlfriend, my dad, and my mom. And we arrived to Salzburg because my mom is from a small town called Ibo in Malaysia.
00:52:36
Speaker
it's a very It's a very small town. And she loved the the movie called The Sound of Music.
00:52:44
Speaker
And she had wanted to visit the place where it was filmed. It's part of a bucket list. And so we went there. And as we pulled up into Salzburg, we went to the church that Maria got married in We walked on the hills that she ran on.
00:53:01
Speaker
Not exactly, but close to it. looks similar. We went into the gazebos that they danced in and the lake house that they were living in. And at some point, my mom slowed down and say, this is the dream.
00:53:14
Speaker
When I was a little girl, I could not have imagined that one day I would be standing here in Salzburg and walking in the same places that, you know, these songs that I've sang all my life.
00:53:28
Speaker
And I think back to this really often because one of the things that makes me so grateful is that I was able to stand there with her.
00:53:40
Speaker
And, you know, we could have easily say, oh maybe next year, maybe, maybe let's wait till the whole family's free, you know, so we can all plan a trip.
00:53:51
Speaker
And that that day generally does not come. And so I'm so grateful for whatever reason, we decided that we're not going to wait. If you can make it, you make it. We're just going to go. We're going to go check off all the bucket lists as we go along.
00:54:07
Speaker
And eight days later, I got the call that she was hospitalized. And so I think back to this often and, you know, people always say it that time flies and it's not that time flies. It's actually that we don't plan our life intentionally.
00:54:23
Speaker
We don't do things intentionally. That's why it feels like time is flying by. And so this is what I'll leave with your audience. you know Look back at what you've done the last few months.
00:54:33
Speaker
Is that how you want to spend your time? And if it's not, just add a few things. Just think of one simple statement, which is, what can I do in the next three months that when I look back in three months, no matter how else everything have gone,
00:54:50
Speaker
I feel pretty good about it. Right. Just a very simple thing and can be as easy as just going fishing with a friend or something like that. And the yeah, that's that's what i want to leave the audience with.
00:55:05
Speaker
Something that brings us more joy or contentment, as you said, going back to that core, because I think of contento as joyful. That's like the word that I would, you know, even more. So do something that brings you joy, something new, add something else to your life.
00:55:23
Speaker
beautiful words to finish with an inspiring story. So thank you again, Jermaine E for being on our podcast and sharing your mom's legacy through you and also with now with Air Light as well. So thank you.
00:55:41
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
00:55:54
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:56:10
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
00:56:22
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.