Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Grief in Young Adulthood with Hannah Rumsey
0 Plays2 seconds ago
Hannah Rumsey is a writer, certified Grief Educator, and the podcast host of Friends Missing Friends. After the death of her beloved friend Lauren in 2015, she noticed a stark lack of friend-loss resources. To fill this gap, she launched the Friends Missing Friends Collective—an affordable online membership for friend-loss grievers to get 1:1 and group support. Her mission is to speak out about this disenfranchised grief, and nurture a community where folks grieving friends feel seen, heard, and understood.
Contact Hannah Rumsey: : friendsmissingfriends.com
https://www.instagram.com/friendsmissingfriends/
https://www.facebook.com/friendsmissingfriends
Grief Groups through the Friends Missing Friends Collective: friendsmissingfriends.com/griefgroup
Contact Kenddra Rinaldi https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
In this episode, we cover:
• The Gift of "One Last Summer": Hannah shares the beautiful story of meeting her friend Lauren at Interlochen Arts Camp and how Lauren, though younger, gave Hannah the gift of one last childhood summer before adulthood set in.
• The Trauma of Digital Grief: We discuss the jarring reality of finding out about a loved one's death via social media. Hannah recounts the heartbreaking moment she went to post a "Happy Birthday" message on Lauren's Facebook wall, only to discover "Rest in Peace" posts instead.
• Grief in Young Adulthood: We explore the unique disorientation of losing a peer at age 23. Hannah explains how this "out of order" loss shattered her ability to create a "five-year plan" because the concept of a future felt impossible to grasp.
• From Perfectionism to Improv: Hannah details her radical pivot from being a classical trumpet player to studying Improv comedy in Chicago. She explains how Improv became a survival mechanism, forcing her to live entirely in the "present moment" because looking ahead was too painful.
• Friend Loss as Disenfranchised Grief: We define "Disenfranchised Grief" and discuss why society often invalidates the loss of a friend. Hannah shares her frustration with Googling "friend loss support" and only finding resources for pet loss.
• Internalized Disenfranchisement: We talk about the concept of "Name it to Tame it." Hannah explains that because society didn't validate her pain, she began to feel like she was "going crazy" or overreacting, until she learned that her grief was real and valid.
• Friends Missing Friends: How Hannah turned her isolation into community by creating the Friends, Missing Friends Collective to support others navigating this specific type of loss.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Grief Exploration
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions.
00:00:22
Speaker
Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone. Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:00:47
Speaker
Let's start with a quick disclaimer. This podcast includes personal stories and perspectives on topics like grief, health, and mental wellness. The views expressed by guests are their own and may reflect individual experiences that are not meant as medical advice.
00:01:05
Speaker
As the host, I hold space for diverse voices, but that does not mean I endorse every viewpoint shared. Please listen with care and take what resonates with you.
Meet Hannah Rumsey: Focus on Friend Loss
00:01:18
Speaker
Welcome. Today, I'm chatting with Hannah Rumsey. She is a writer, a certified grief educator, and she is the podcast host of Friends Missing Friends.
00:01:30
Speaker
which she developed after the death of her beloved friend Lauren in 2015 is when Lauren died and she needed resources. And she also has the Friends Missing Friends Collective. So we will be talking about friend loss primarily because that is the focus of your your work. So welcome, Hannah.
00:01:56
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. Grateful that you are here. So I like to find out a little bit more about my guests. So if you can share where you grew up and a little bit of your own upbringing, please.
00:02:11
Speaker
Yeah. ah So I grew up in ah Newport News, Virginia, a And um my upbringing, I was really into music. So ah sixth grade, like you know you could choose between band or orchestra. And I was like, band. And I chose the trumpet because my mom played the trumpet. Both her sisters played the trumpet and my dad's brother played the trumpet. And I had about three hand-me-down trumpets at my disposal and just was all in with that for 10 years. So a lot of my upbringing was with classical music and band and band camp and rehearsals and summer camps. Um,
00:02:58
Speaker
And, yeah, so that that's kind of my adult childhood and adolescence in an in a nutshell. In a nutshell. And, yeah, we have that in common with my own child who's a band kid. Aww. She does not play – she plays the clarinet. Oh, amazing. Yeah, so it's definitely a whole little – Like it's a family. It's a family when you're that close, right? And especially kids when they go into, like you're saying, camps or if you're in marching band and going out to compete, you spend a lot of time together. And so that bonding is very much... um Yeah, like not only the kids, the parents also then bond with the other parents of in marching band and things like that too, right? When you're when your child is involved in sports and similar parents kind of become very close to these families. So...
The Bond with Lauren: Emotional Support
00:03:51
Speaker
ah Thank you for for sharing that. So within that story, tell us where and when you met Hannah. and Hannah, you are Hannah. When and where you met your friend Lauren and how the friendship developed.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah. so um So I was, you know, like I said, really into trumpet. So then ah the summer before my senior year of high school, I went to the Interlochen Summer Arts Camp, which is for all the arts. You know, they have visual arts, they have photography, you know, everything. And so they also have music. And so I went for the trumpet and I was so excited, you know,
00:04:32
Speaker
Six weeks, you know, independent, quote unquote, independence. um And I'm in line with my parents, a registration line.
00:04:42
Speaker
And ah my mom, i i i know her so well, I feel like she was determined to find me a friend before she left. She was like, I need to make sure Hannah's not all by herself, right? That's so cute. Which is really sweet.
00:04:57
Speaker
I can relate to that sentiment. I'm a mom. You're like, you're leaving your child. You want to make sure six weeks I won't see her. Like, I want to make sure she's taken care of. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's very sweet. Although at the time it was annoying because I was a teenager. i was like, I can do it myself. And so she tapped on the shoulder of the girl standing in front of us in line, who ended up being Lauren.
00:05:22
Speaker
And you know Lauren and her mom turned around and my mom was like, this is my daughter, Hannah. She plays the trumpet. What do you play? You two should be friends. And I was like, oh my God, mom, you're being so obvious. How old were you exactly? So this is 2009, but how old how old were you?
00:05:42
Speaker
I was 17. Oh, 17. Okay, okay. said the right thread. You said before your senior year. Okay, I'm paying attention. I'm paying attention. I No, you're fine. Yeah, so I was 17. Lauren was 14 going on 15. So she was actually a couple years younger than me. But that...
00:06:00
Speaker
was actually a big reason why I think we got along so well because I was grieving the end of my childhood. All of my peers were like getting boyfriends and excited about driving and wanted to like, we're thinking of like marriage, and you know, stuff I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I was like, I'm still a kid. Like, I i still want to have fun and play and, you know all these things. And So she, i think partly because she was younger, also because she just was had such a childlike spirit, she gave me the gift of one last summer of my childhood.
00:06:35
Speaker
And I truly believe that summer was the last summer of my childhood. um That's really how I see it because like, and i'm I'm not exaggerating here. We literally galloped around like horses at one point and like five-year-olds, you know? And I just, to it was like the kind of joy when it bubbles up in your throat, you know, when you're like so happy, it's almost like you have pop rocks in your mouth. Like you're just like, it's, it's like, it's bubbling out of you, you know, like fireworks are in your, in your chest. um It was that kind of joy. It was so palpable. It was like, I could, I could touch it, you know, and that it was during a time of my life when one, like I said, I was grieving my childhood too. I,
00:07:22
Speaker
Did not feel like I belonged anywhere. Like I was kind of in between friend groups. So I i didn't really have many really close friends. I was very lonely, very insecure, um really wanted a best friend.
00:07:38
Speaker
And it was like plop, like she was like literally plopped right in front of me. Like here's a best friend. And um and here's, you know, someone who will run around and be a kid with you. yeah,
00:07:50
Speaker
It was probably one of the happiest six weeks of my life. I love that. i had never thought of that connection when you just said that you, I, of course, I've grieved my childhood. I've grieved the before I became a mom. I've grieved the before I got married, the that person who I was and these chapters in my life, you still grieve. But the fact that you,
00:08:18
Speaker
were connecting then to somebody that still had this childlike, you know what you were about to leave behind, yeah that gave me goosebumps of that emotion that that connection was not just because of who she was, but what she represented within you that you were letting go. I think that that is so powerful. Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yeah. And it's something that I don't think I realized until years later when I'm reflecting back. Yes. Yeah. And until you're in this like space of grief, you realize that almost everything you've been through, this is me. My kids are like so annoyed of everything. I'm like, why does everything have to be about grief? And I'm like, because it is.
00:09:00
Speaker
It is. It's all connected. Yeah. Yeah, if I think back of when my kids would lose their blankie and they would cry and then or whatever, and I'm like, it's a blankie. No, they were grieving the loss of like their best friend too. Their one thing that connected them, gave them comfort, you know so everything pretty much can be tied in some shape or form to grief. So yeah grieving that childhood and then connecting with this
00:09:32
Speaker
girl that brought you that joy of childhood and then you know brought it up within you too. um I love that. So those six weeks, you guys bonded. And six weeks is a long time for when you are spending every day together and you really make this friendship very solid. So how often, this is 2009, how often did you guys see each other after that?
The Impact of Lauren’s Death
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah. So ah first of all i just want to very briefly touch on what you just said, which is that like I actually did the math once because I feel like grief sometimes makes you um obsess a little bit. I don't know if that's the best word, but I did the math. focuscu Hyperfocus. Hyperfocus on something else. Hyperfocus. Yeah. So i the hours we spent together would be like 10 years of adult life when you spend a couple hours together a week. like I actually did the math because I was like, I know that this is...
00:10:33
Speaker
big. And so that's just to show that like, yeah, six weeks at a camp when you're together 24 seven, like literally all the time, except when you're sleeping basically is years of adult life.
00:10:46
Speaker
Wow. So the friendships that now as an adult, we have that we see a friend two hours a week for coffee in a certain period of time, like that's When you do the math, that's how many hours of friendship. So the the bonding is extremely important.
00:11:05
Speaker
extremely strong. I can see why it is that I even, of most of the characters, quote unquote, of my dreams are all are all from the period of my life of my younger years. Yeah. Like, because they're the ones that take up probably most of my memories because some of those friendships still continue now. So I'm like, oh, no wonder they're the characters of my dreams almost all the time because they are with the most constant, right? Yeah.
00:11:30
Speaker
So you you met then and then – so where does she live? where did where Because you lived in Virginia. Where did Lauren live? she So she lived in Pennsylvania. And, you know, when we left camp, we were like – we were naive and and young. And we were like, we'll visit once a month. Like we didn't understand how time worked, you know, or how busy we would be.
00:11:52
Speaker
And then, you know, that, of course, didn't happen. And we – she visited once that winter. the winter of 2009, and then we did not see each other again in person.
00:12:04
Speaker
ever. So when she died six years later, we hadn't yet set up. We tried 100 times. It was just like you know we were so busy. It's life, yeah. Yeah, college. And then you started college, right? Yeah. So um that was a really tough the thing for me to wrap my head around and my grief was we really only spent six weeks together.
00:12:29
Speaker
And that's why I did the math because I was like – But you would talk on the phone too though. Yes. would talk on the phone and yeah, yeah. yeah Yeah, we talked – yeah, exactly. So we texted, we talked on the phone, we Skyped ah for many, many hours. But yeah, we didn't get that in-person connection again.
00:12:45
Speaker
Yeah, but that's still a connection. That's the thing. It's like a lot of times we don't realize, but sometimes you end up even connecting much more even over a phone call because there's no other distraction and you are purposefully calling someone specifically to hear their voice, their input. Well, when you're spending time with someone, there's so many other things happening. Yeah. Around and sometimes other people, like you could be like an in in like if even when you were in Interlochen, you were there with other people. Here you you have a specific – So there's still a lot of bonding yes that can happen in that time. That's such a good point. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people dismiss –
00:13:30
Speaker
online or phone connection. They're like, but we never saw each other in real life. And it's like, but it is real. And what you just said is so right. It is. I mean, even my husband and I, we we only saw each other maybe twice after when we started dating over, we were basically talking was over the phone and we saw each other maybe two times before we got, I mean, before then he moved to the state that I was in and then we got married. So, but we would spend at least three hours on the phone every day, you know, pretty much talking. So how do you not get to know someone when you're spending that much time? So yes, you do you do connect and get yeah to know someone that way. So it's then 2015. How did you hear
00:14:15
Speaker
of her passing of her death. And what word do you like to use since you're a grief of educator? I know you probably, you might be comfortable the word death or do you prefer still passing or what or what is your preference? I'm comfortable with both. yeah Both? trans Because transcendent, whichever one you prefer to talk. but So when did you find out about the words? Yeah, so her, how I found out was,
00:14:46
Speaker
It's like there's no good way to find out, right? phone call would have been traumatic. Anything would have been traumatic. But the way I found out was um horrible and it was over Facebook. And I've actually found this is really common with ah people who aren't direct family members. They often find out someone they love died on social media, um which is a really cold situation.
00:15:10
Speaker
way to find out. um And what happened was it was her birthday. It was July 19th. So I went on her Facebook page to post happy birthday. And I actually posted happy birthday and said, can't wait to talk. You know, I can't wait to hear about how Spain's going, all this stuff. And I posted it.
00:15:29
Speaker
And then I was like, oh I'll read the other birthday posts. But they all said, rest in peace. They didn't say happy birthday. And I just remember feeling numb because it was like, it didn't make sense. And it's that thing when you hear traumatic news and you're like, but that can't be, we just talked. You know, you use this logic that doesn't really make sense. we you her But I just heard from her last week, how could she possibly be dead now? um And I remember it took several minutes for it to even absorb as information because it was seemed so unreal. It seems so impossible.
00:16:08
Speaker
um And people on her page had posted articles, um just really cold ah journalistic articles that were, that were like Lauren Bajorik senior at Penn state fell off balcony in Spain. Spanish police believe it's an accident, you know,
00:16:28
Speaker
like really like, yeah, I can't think of another word other than cold. Like it's just where it's just the information and you're like, but this is Lauren. This is Lauren you're talking about. Can't possibly be Lauren.
00:16:41
Speaker
And when it finally absorbed, i I describe it as like, it was like a volume dial that went from silent to screaming because as soon as my brain took it as reality, realized, fell to the ground and just was screaming and screaming. um And that's how I found out.
00:17:03
Speaker
And how long had it been at that moment when you, so you posted on July 19th, do you know how many days, weeks she had passed before you found out?
00:17:17
Speaker
Cause in that, or had it been like just the day before, like before, but like what, what was the timeline then? So just by 2015, so we have to kind of also wrap our heads that back then too, even Facebook was, well, I don't know. I don't know if that time was still that way. The one that you only almost would put,
00:17:35
Speaker
feeling, no, the 2009 was probably more like feeling happy. Kendra is feeling happy. I remain remember that. Remember that? It was only like a status of like how you were feeling or whatever. Excited. And then people be like, what are you excited about? It was like, that was all the thing. So here, like, you yeah. So 2015, okay, there was more of the people actually posting, like you said, but do you know when when when was her actual...
00:18:03
Speaker
ah date of passing. So just several hours before. So she died in the early morning of July 19th. And it was just sheer happenstance that it was her birthday and that I saw it.
00:18:22
Speaker
i I don't even want to fathom what would have happened if it wasn't her birthday. I probably wouldn't have found out for weeks when I was trying to text her and i you know would be like, why isn't she responding? um because so she Because she was then for a semester abroad for so for college. And so it happened. well there So while she was abroad too, you probably didn't talk as, you didn't speak as often as you did when she was.
00:18:48
Speaker
So person plus your college time kind of, me you yeah, you don't you don't check in as often anymore when you're right. And so, wow. So it that same morning. Now,
00:19:02
Speaker
What happened next? You find out you're going through all of these emotions. You're in another state. did Did you have her parents' contact information? at you know Did you have another way of finding out details of even funeral arrangements or things like that?
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah. So... One plus side of social media is like I was able to get in touch with her mom um and began you know messaging her and and her mom remembered me and you know who knew who I was. And um we actually kind of developed ah a friendship of sorts, a connection over the years, because I think we were – comforting to each other, um you know sharing memories about Lauren and things like that. but So she told me about the funeral and um my mom and I drove up to the funeral. It was in Pennsylvania.
00:19:55
Speaker
ah And that I just remember like at the funeral being so angry. And it's like, you know, anger is often an emotion that can come with grief, but it's like anger with kind of nowhere where to direct it.
00:20:15
Speaker
Right. Like, uh, so I remember all of my muscles being so tight, kind of like if I let go, I would shatter into a million pieces. You know, I was just clenched, um, and just furious because I'm like, why would, you know, the most,
00:20:35
Speaker
amazing person in the world be the one who dies like this like it just you know it's one of those many many times when it just doesn't make sense
00:20:46
Speaker
it still brings a lot of emotion it's these um
00:20:59
Speaker
I'll hold space for you. It's okay. Thank you um you. after then this, you go back, were you were you still in college at that time, Hannah?
00:21:13
Speaker
were used to, are you already in the workspace? What were you doing at that moment
Identity Crisis and Shift to Improv
00:21:18
Speaker
in your life? So you go to the funeral, you go back and I'm just kind of trying to place myself as to where you were in your life to be able to ask you them some more questions.
00:21:29
Speaker
Yeah. So I was 23. So recently graduated from college. And um so it's funny, I was writing about it just this morning because I'm working on a memoir, slowly but surely.
00:21:43
Speaker
And I was writing about that period of time. And it was like, how I describe it is i was having an identity crisis before she died. and so And also young adulthood is, there's so much going on. You're figuring out what is life? Like, who am I?
00:22:01
Speaker
How do I navigate this world? um It's a really fragile time. So for ah a a shocking, unexpected, traumatic loss of, you know, one of my closest friends in the world to happen during that time completely changed the trajectory of my life.
00:22:23
Speaker
And so, um yeah, that's so that's that's I feel like the time that a ah death can take place, like the where it is in your life can- The time, yeah. Yeah, really affect how you process the grief. Yeah, especially- Like you were saying, for there's certain markers, right? Like they say, like with a child, like if you learn a language before the age of like language centers and all these kinds of things before the age of seven, you know, things like that, that are like landmarks, even just in our own evolution as a human being. Right. And just our brain development and all these things that are very poignant. Right. So in, and then these major transitions when you're 23 about to end college,
00:23:10
Speaker
Somebody – you're around the age that I was 21 when my sister died. So when you're in that in that point in your life in which you still think you're invincible almost. Like if you're young, you see a you know future, you're like life lasts forever. And all of a sudden, somebody that's young and your peer and young even younger than you, which is your case and so is mine,
00:23:41
Speaker
dies, all of a sudden the frailty of life is put right in your face, not just of life, but of your own life and your own mortality is put in it. So then it comes into this point of like, do i what do i even create a future?
00:23:58
Speaker
Is there a future? If I just, right? So it's these So i can i I can relate to that. i don't know if those were the thoughts you were going through. I know those were kind of mine and which has stuck with me for a long time. I could not make the people who had asked me, what is your five-year plan?
00:24:15
Speaker
i would like yeah choke up. And I didn't realize till much later that why it was. And it was because I did not know how to plan for a future. in in this lasted well into my forties Yeah. And i I'm not going to lie. I think I'm still having that now, you know, 11 years later. um And yeah, you're so eloquent because everything you're saying is is exactly, I i resonate. um And to this day, i don't have a one year or a five year plan.
00:24:50
Speaker
Um, and I didn't, I thought that was just my personality, but now I'm like, maybe this is why. yeah Well, because you said you, you, you experienced something major at that age, right? So therefore, and of somebody else that's young, it was not your grandparent. It was not, it was somebody else that was young. So therefore,
00:25:15
Speaker
ah ah how does your brain wrap around the idea of that? So one thing is our so be your heart, our soul, our inner being, but the brain is the one that we have to reprogram as to giving it evidence that we can, right? And that's the part where it's like, that's the work afterwards is like, how do I reprogram this brain to know that, yes, this happened. It does not mean that I...
00:25:43
Speaker
cannot go in a different route in my life and can create a future, even though this is there. Right. So you'll have to find evidence of all the other friends and all the other people that are young around you that are still here and still thrive. Right. So, yeah, it's it's it's complicated.
00:26:03
Speaker
Hi, I just had to come on and just kind of interrupt right now this episode that you're hearing. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you guys are listening to this conversation. And every single time i hear a guest, there's something new that I learn and something else that ends up showing up within me that I realize I still have to work on.
00:26:23
Speaker
And if by chance, as you're listening to this conversation, you're feeling the same, that there's parts of you that are being stirred up and you are navigating a life transition right now that feels just heavy and stressful and just layered with grief. I want you to know that you do not have to do it alone.
00:26:41
Speaker
I invite you to connect with me for a free 15 minute discovery call and we'll explore what's coming up for you and see if working together feels like the right fit.
00:26:52
Speaker
Just check the show notes below for my email and reach out for details. I'd really love to support you in integrating these transitions with more ease and clarity.
00:27:05
Speaker
Can't wait to hear back from you. Okay, let's keep on listening to the episode.
00:27:13
Speaker
So you're 23 at twenty three at that moment. where So where were you studying still in Virginia? Were you studying in Virginia still at that time, right? So graduated- Or had you been home for the summer?
00:27:25
Speaker
I'd been graduated from college for about a year. And this is a whole other layer because this is explains the identity crisis I was already having before she died. I had to quit the trumpet midway through college because I was doing a college music degree. But then I had basically a mental and physical breakdown from chronic pain, hearing damage, all the things that can come from playing an instrument. um And so I had my whole childhood and adolescence was, like I said earlier, about music and about the trumpet. And that was what connected me and Lauren. She played French horn. um
00:28:00
Speaker
And so in the year before she died, I was like, who the hell? hell, like, who am I? Like, i have been trump a trumpet player for so many years. I got to figure out, what you know, what i who what I want to do. Because it was my source of confidence and and strength and identity. Um,
00:28:22
Speaker
And I started taking, i was like in an experimental phase, like maybe this, maybe this, maybe this. And I started taking comedy improv classes because I was literally like, what is the opposite of what I was doing before? What is the opposite of classical music? stuff where you make stupid shit on stage like and goof around like pretty much the opposite. Because I was like, i I felt like I had a lot of healing to do around perfectionism and performance. um
00:28:53
Speaker
And another reason why I think i it was so good for me at that time is because it was so in the present moment. Like you kind of have to not even think a second ahead when you're improvising. And that like to be a good improviser, you have to be reacting only.
00:29:13
Speaker
If you plan anything, you'll mess everything up because you don't know what your scene partner is going to do. And so was- I studied theater, Hannah. So I'm doing, I'm a major in theater. So I'm like right with you, girl. I can totally can relate to what you're saying. So I'm speaking your language. Oh, I love that. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. Yeah. So like you were just saying earlier where like you can't think into the future.
00:29:37
Speaker
I couldn't even think about an hour or tomorrow. like And so improv was perfect for me. i had to just be alive in that moment. And so after she died,
00:29:52
Speaker
It's like a psychologist would have a field day, like analyzing my next steps because I was like, all right, I'm going all in on improv. And I dropped everything. I moved to Chicago because that was the place to go for improv.
00:30:05
Speaker
And my whole life, I'd been an overachiever, a perfectionist, you know, like straight A's, all these things. And then I basically became the opposite. And I was like, I'm just going to take improv classes and bum around and just see what happens next. Yeah.
00:30:22
Speaker
I absolutely love that. is that time as I have not been in the theater world in a while. Is it second like Second City and all that still around in Chicago and all that?
00:30:33
Speaker
Yeah, Second City is still around. I didn't do Second City. I did IO, which used to be called ImprovOlympic, and that's where Tina Fey and Amy Poehler oh um were. So, you know, I...
00:30:46
Speaker
Wow, it's just so funny looking back and you're like, i see why I made those decisions. um I had read Amy Poehler's memoir, Yes Please, and she talks about her 20s in Chicago and how like her life was just like rehearsals and like just biking around without a care in the world and like going to work and...
00:31:04
Speaker
going to parties and and just having no responsibilities except showing up to work and then going to rehearsals. And I was like, sounds great. That's what I'll do. that so at that point So at that point, up to 23, you had already been, you had majored in music music. That was what you had done. You shifted completely. So here is another major pivot and grief. It is like that you change completely the trajectory, which anyway, we can do this at any moment in our lives. We're constantly in pivot and we can, but a lot of times we end up deciding, no, no, I'm going to go exactly where the GPS is telling me. I'm not taking a detour right in my life. You took a detour and this is where you're
00:31:46
Speaker
life went, you were in Chicago, you're grieving the death of your friend. And you are also had been grieved for a year, been grieving the death quote unquote of what you thought your life was going to look like as a musician. Cause you know, could no longer yet. You're also finding your own identity now as a, as an improv ah yeah actor. Right. So That's a major change. So tell us more about then all the way that you even used your grief, in in did you use your grief in your improv as well, and and in your acting, and what was that process like?
00:32:32
Speaker
Yeah, so i i I'm so grateful for improv because I think it can teach you a lot about life. and I don't know, I feel like it probably sounds really cliche, but like really just about being in the in the present moment and and hooking on to the joy of the moment and the play.
00:32:54
Speaker
which I think also a reason I loved that is because that's what me and Lauren were like, she was all about hooking onto the joy and like being goofy and silly. And, and so I was like really, really, really drawn to that. I just wanted to be a goofball, you know, all day. um And for like a year,
00:33:16
Speaker
It was glorious. Like I lived Amy Poehler's you know, just no care in the world, had this friend group. um You didn't know what I was doing tomorrow or next week, like just was having fun. And then, of course, all of that has to come crashing down at some point. Right. So um at the I finished the improv program at I.O.,
00:33:39
Speaker
And then what happens after that is then you ah kind of audition and then you either get on a house team or not. And I didn't get on a house team. And then that was kind of when my brain was like, oh, crap.
00:33:50
Speaker
Like, what do I do now? Because I was on this train not knowing where it was going, not thinking about. And then it stops and it's like, you got to get off the train. And I'm like, but I didn't plan it on my next stop. Like, I don't know what to do next. And so yet again, it was kind of like.
00:34:08
Speaker
Yet again, i had to figure out, okay, what am I doing and who am I?
00:34:16
Speaker
And that train will continue, Hannah. It will continue. It's like that. every Even my dad, who was 83, still says, I still don't know what I want to do when I grew up. yeah so So just it just this part part of this journey. So this is 2016.
00:34:34
Speaker
two thousand and sixteen at 2016, around the time that then you realized that you did not get into? what happened what What shifted and how were you at that moment processing your grief? And were you? Were you tapping into the emotions of your grief or were you putting them on a shelf?
00:34:56
Speaker
I would say I put them on a shelf for a couple years. I mean, I i definitely cried a lot. I felt a lot of sadness, but I don't think I really dove headfirst into them. um And it was sometime in 2017 when, you know, i I didn't make a improv team and I realized, you know,
00:35:17
Speaker
I have to figure stuff out. That's, I think, really when I was like, I have to deal with this. And um I started taking writing classes. I've always loved writing, but I started taking writing classes and like whenever I would take a nonfiction class, you know, and write about my life, I would basically just write about this, you know, my Lauren and my grief. And to the point where I'm like, okay, like, can I write about anything else? But there was so much to process that like, that's what would come out to this day. I'm still writing about, I'm still working on the book. I might write about it for the rest of my life, you know, but like um that is when I started to,
00:36:03
Speaker
untangle the knot that was in my heart, like, because it had to be untangled and and figured out. It's a lot. may May I ask, was your grief validated by those around you?
00:36:18
Speaker
Because we it is you when you reached out, we talked about friend friend grief being a disenfranchised grief because society sometimes does not give it the weight of what it is. If you're at a job for you to take time off because you're best friend died and you're still needing some time to process and grieve, like, eh, they'd be like, no, we only, may I don't even know if this is the case, but no, we we only give time off if it's a relative, if it's a, you know. So was it validated by your peers? Was it validated by your family? Were were you seen in your grief?
00:36:58
Speaker
So that's a great question to an extent, but because the wider society does not validate it and recognize it and support it, I could feel, even if I had, you know, a few friends and family that did validate it, I still felt the dismissal from society.
00:37:18
Speaker
And even now, even 11 years later, if you Google friend loss grief groups, I can't, nothing comes up for me. and I, I um connected with someone who also lost a friend and she said what popped up for her was pet loss groups. She would Google like friend loss groups and it would show her pet loss groups, which is ah another whole disenfranchised grief. But like, why would the algorithm not show you friend loss groups? Like it it just, it's Google doesn't even understand what you're asking for.
00:37:54
Speaker
Like, and so I have continued to search and even, you know, I am on Instagram and I've even like been like, am I the only friend loss account on here? And I would get all of these comments and they're like, you're the only one I've seen. i don't know of any others ah like, you know, and I'm like, this is crazy. Like I still haven't found another person who, um so actually i've I've found one, but like I haven't found more than one person who is
00:38:26
Speaker
really like doing fun loss, grief support. Yeah. yeah pursue it Narrowing it down. it And it doesn't mean you have not experienced it, but it may not be what their focus is in the grief support space. yeah And in your case, because that is one of the major cornerstones of your grief journey was ah Lauren's death, yeah then that is your your focus and in the area of yeah of expertise, and I won't even use the word expertise, but because we're not really experts, but but of a focus of being able to support others that may be feeling just as lonely as you were feeling when you had just early on experienced that. And now you've created this community So let's talk about then that journey of when you were like, okay, I cannot find support.
00:39:20
Speaker
Well, I need support. I need to learn more about what it is I'm feeling and to the now of what you've created. Yeah. So... i could not find support and it was in 2021 I began ah the podcast, Friends Missing Friends. um And I just needed to talk about it and I needed to connect with others who had the similar experience. And it was after doing that for a few years, i was like, oh, I can create the community that I can't find.
00:39:59
Speaker
So that's why i I created the, I'm calling it the Friends Missing Friends Collective, because what I desperately needed, especially in those first few years, was a community that was established already that I could fall into and just immediately meet other people who understood.
00:40:20
Speaker
And that was what I could not find. And that was what might be out there, but it's not easy to to find, not easily accessible. um So I was like, okay, that's
Creating a Supportive Community for Friend Loss
00:40:32
Speaker
what I'm going to do. And um it's, I just launched it this month, January, 2026.
00:40:39
Speaker
And we had our first group session. And it was one of those things where like, you're you had this dream for years and then it's real. And I just got so emotional um because I just want a place for us to gather. you know I want us to gather and feel seen and understood.
00:40:58
Speaker
I love that. That is so beautiful that you've created what you needed and being able to be there now, that comfort for others so that they don't feel like Wait, I'm Googling and I don't even see anything. You've now created what you were missing. Now you go going on the journey of becoming a grief educator, when did that start going with David Kessler's program?
00:41:22
Speaker
Yeah, so I did that last year in 2025. David Kessler has a grief education program that's um online. And it was um it was amazing. I learned so much. It's ah basically like a really deep overview of grief. um And ah I mean, i i i love David Kessler. i I think he's so wonderful. And I continue to learn so much from him. Yeah.
00:41:49
Speaker
And did you feel like while you were learning, you're like, oh my goodness, now I see, now I see what it is that I was feeling, right? And that moment, it's it's like when people go into studying psychology or things, there's a lot of times to understand ourselves. And that moment is like, okay, I see it. I see why it was. Yeah.
00:42:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. and i like I think it was around that time or maybe a little bit before that I learned the term disenfranchised grief. And ah a a friend taught me the phrase, name it to tame it. So it's like once you can name it, you can kind of get a handle on it and understand where your feelings are coming from.
00:42:30
Speaker
And naming friend loss as a disenfranchised grief was that feeling of oh my God, I'm not crazy. I know exactly now why I felt so confused and alone and isolated. And for a while, like I was going crazy, like I was overreacting because the wider society wasn't recognized, validating and supporting my grief. I felt like I was being too emotional and too clingy and too, too,
00:43:01
Speaker
to Like almost like, oh, I was just being silly. Like, you know, it's when when you dismiss someone's feelings and then you're like, oh yeah, I'm just – I shouldn't be feeling this way. Like I i so i felt that way for a while.
00:43:18
Speaker
and And again, it's because it layers. it's not You're not only grieving the person, you're grieving the memories you had together. You're grieving another person that saw you through those. She's the only other person that saw you through certain ways. So parts of you yeah And the memories are also – there's just so many layers that come from ah from any type of grief experience, but but that people don't realize until you've lived it.
00:43:53
Speaker
ah ah Right? you write And even when you've lived it, you can't – Again, every experience is so different because our grief is so unique. so And each friend dynamic and relationship dynamic is different that you you won't know how you're going to react into and and express your grief until you've lived it yourself.
00:44:14
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. and it And it is one of those things where you don't understand until you go through it and you see like, oh, this really does have a million layers. like Because you're grieving the past, you're grieving the future, you're grieving what could have been, you're grieving the present, you're grieving who you were to them, you're grieving who you were together, you're grieving who they were to you. like You could analyze this from every... It's like a diamond. It has a infinite angles. you know And we grieve every single one. Mm-hmm, yeah.
00:44:43
Speaker
And yeah, it's it's it's a lot of layers of grief yet that are really not seen for by others and even ourselves sometimes. And that's why we feel like, but am I overreacting then? Right? Like, because I'm like, oh, I wonder if I should feel different. So as we are about to close, I want to make sure that people know how to be able to contact you. So friendsmissingfriends is your Instagram handle.
00:45:10
Speaker
And that's your website as well. Is that correct? Yes. Friends, missing friends collective, which ones are, what's your, and we'll put it in the show notes, but tell us the website and the podcast names, please.
00:45:23
Speaker
Yeah, so I tried to make it easy to remember. So it's friendsmissingfriends.com. My email is friendsmissingfriends at gmail.com. My Instagram is at friendsmissingfriends. My Facebook is at friendsmissingfriends. I'm mostly on Instagram, but you know I'm also on Facebook and um LinkedIn. And ah yeah, reach out to me. like Even if you just want to tell me your story or like have someone to talk to, like I encourage people to email me um
00:45:53
Speaker
I'm so happy to to hear and to to talk. How often does the friends' ah Missing Friends Collective meet? And is it online? Yes. So right now it's virtual since everyone in the group is in different places. um Right now we meet twice a month, but as more people join, i will add more dates because it's just impossible to, you know, have just two dates for everyone to, for that to work with everyone. um but Is it an hour or how many, how long is it at a time?
00:46:25
Speaker
Yeah. So each session is an hour and a half. Okay, perfect. So as you're listening to this, if you've late if you can relate to any part of the story, if you're right now missing a friend and you have felt alone, you know where to go, that now you can contact Hannah and be able to be plugged into other people that have those similar emotions. And then your podcast is another space in which people can go and listen specifically to stories that of other people who have had friend loss, friend death, friend yeah ah that they are grieving. and
00:47:02
Speaker
Hannah, I always like to ask my guests if there's anything I have not asked you that you want to make sure that you share with the audience.
00:47:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. um So because of the concept, name it to tame it, one thing I just want to mention, because this helped me so much.
00:47:25
Speaker
is that when something is disenfranchised in the external world, that can become internalized and we start to disenfranchise our own grief. And so once I realized that's what was happening, my doubts, my questions, my inner critic saying, no, you're overreacting, lost its power because I understood where it was coming from and why I was having those thoughts.
00:47:50
Speaker
And now they've quieted and are um they're not the primary voice anymore. So i i just wanted to say that because I feel like that can help people understand why they start to feel like they're going a little going crazy for lack of a better word because I really felt like I was losing my mind for a while. um That it's because you are not broken, our society is broken.
00:48:17
Speaker
Perfect way of ending this. Thank you so much, Hannah. Again, this was Hannah Rumsey. Thank you again for sharing your story, sharing Lauren with us as well and your friendship and giving people that are listening a little bit of hope and understanding and empathy as to what they are going through. So thank you, Hannah.
00:48:39
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:48:48
Speaker
thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
00:49:01
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:49:16
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
00:49:29
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.