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Navigating Stage Four Cancer, Grief, and Honoring Raffaella's Legacy with Danny Lesslie
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Danny Lesslie is a widower, devoted father of two daughters, and an entrepreneur whose life and work are deeply rooted in storytelling, resilience, and faith. As a coach, speaker, and writer, Danny brings authenticity and hope to audiences navigating life’s most difficult transitions.
He and his late wife, Raffaella Dobles, co-authored Thank You, Cancer, a powerful memoir that chronicles their shared journey through Raffaella’s five-year battle with Stage 4 cancer. Woven from Raffaella’s journal entries during her illness and Danny’s reflections after her passing, the book is both a tribute to a remarkable woman and a testament to the enduring strength of love.
Instagram @momentumwithdanny
Show Highlights
• Love and Humor as a "Safe Home": Danny shares how his wife, Raffaella, immediately caught his attention with her "lightning fast wit," a humor that became a "safe home" for them throughout their whole relationship, even to the "very, very end".
• Navigating Stage Four Cancer: Danny recounts the five-year battle with stage four vulvar cancer. Despite being "diametrically opposed" on treatment paths when the disease recurred, they chose unity, realizing that supporting Raffaella's choice was the most "powerful thing in our marriage".
• Miracles Through Sharing: The couple's financial resources were constantly "drained," forcing them to "swallow your ego" and share their story. Danny describes the "mind blowing" support they received, including a GoFundMe that raised over $50,000, which meant they could continue treatment and "make it through the next... years of struggle" [51, 20:34].
• Honoring the Legacy: Danny fulfilled their shared dream by writing the book, Thank You, Cancer, which intertwines his perspective with Raffaella's "original unedited words" and powerful moments of divine grace, ensuring that her remarkable story is told.
Connect with Kendra Rinaldi either for coaching or to be a guest on the podcast https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Recommended
Transcript
The Power of Community and Sharing
00:00:00
Speaker
You know, you you don't need to carry the hard seasons of your life because people care. And it's a month maybe cry it's amazing when you put something out there that hurts.
00:00:16
Speaker
Who steps forward and who shares and who who gathers around you? And I tell you this because our story would not be possible without literally thousands and thousands of people that came behind us and helped us.
00:00:39
Speaker
Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions.
00:00:56
Speaker
Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone. Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:18
Speaker
Let's start with a quick disclaimer. This podcast includes personal stories and perspectives on topics like grief, health, and mental wellness. The views expressed by guests are their own and may reflect individual experiences that are not meant as medical advice.
00:01:36
Speaker
As the host, I hold space for diverse voices, but that does not mean I endorse every viewpoint shared.
Introducing Danny Leslie and His Story
00:01:43
Speaker
Please listen with care and take what resonates with you.
00:01:48
Speaker
Thanks for joining us today. Today, i am chatting with Danny Leslie, and he is a husband of his wife, Rafaela, who lived with stage four vulvar cancer for five years. And together, they navigated that journey with a lot of courage and love and resilience. And after she died, Dani had fulfilled their dream of writing a book. So we will be talking about that. Dani is a father of two, and I look forward to getting to learn more about you, Dani, and your story and get to
00:02:26
Speaker
I also got to meet Rafaela. And now that I say when I was reading it, I probably did say it like Rafaela rather than Rafaela, how I know how to say it. yeah yeah Just because i when I'm reading in English, and then my brain goes into that rather than my Spanish natural rolling of the R's. So welcome again, Dani.
00:02:47
Speaker
Thank you. i'm I'm so honored to be here to share this story. Thank you for reaching out. Yeah, it's it's that that part of being able to not ah like honor her legacy by you sharing as well, right? it's it It feels very
00:03:07
Speaker
cathartic when you're not only for your own grief when you're sharing your grief story, but it's another way of keeping someone's memory alive too when you're sharing your story. Do you feel that way? I do. And ah I was blessed in that we decided as a couple to share about our experience years and years before um she passed. So it was very common for me to reach to to sharing.
00:03:30
Speaker
um And in the sharing, I started to to feel the the connection to her again. And that was huge because when someone passes, they're obviously not here anymore. so that that was, it was like i was building a bridge, you know, each day when in in my writing and in my sharing. And so it's really become a beautiful thing. And it's, it's, it's proof that, that love is bigger than death.
00:03:56
Speaker
No, I love that. It's that continuation of of that love just continues, regardless of what somebody believes in terms of what happens after we die. yeah That love in itself is something that can bind that that memory and that that union. So talking about love, take us into learning how you and Rafaela met and a little bit about your your life together, meeting and creating a family.
00:04:23
Speaker
So we we met in Los Angeles um on the West Coast of the the US. um I went out there to start a gym and she was out there helping family, going to school. She was managing a barbecue restaurant at the time and she came to one of our programs and that was where we met and right off the bat, something was different. We There was something different about her.
Humor and Joy in Grief
00:04:50
Speaker
And ah this story I always tell, but she came up and and we were in the course of conversation. I noticed that she in her car had a baby seat in the back seat. And at this time I was, you know, I was 29 or something around there. And so at that point in life, people have children.
00:05:08
Speaker
You know, you meet people and they have families and stuff. So I was clearly interested in her. So i just in the course of conversation, I just dropped in a line about the car seat, you know, trying to figure out what was going on. Right. Testing the waters.
00:05:20
Speaker
And she goes, oh, it's my daughter. And I guess what happened to me was visible. i guess I just like went flush or something, just looked like a ghost. And so she starts laughing.
00:05:32
Speaker
And her wit, her wit was so fast and she got me, she got me so good. And then I started laughing because we realized what had happened. And that was when, from then on, I was like, man, i I couldn't keep my heart off of her, my mind off of her. And, and it just, you know, eventually we started dating and then it was kids and, um, yeah, so it was, it was then.
00:05:53
Speaker
So she was what it was not her daughter. It was a car seat because of the family that she would help. Correct. She was out there helping her family. Yeah. And that it was their daughter and she was she would help out with her. and Yeah, yeah. But she got me good. It is it like you could not keep a a poker face then at that moment. of Apparently. i thought I could, but apparently I didn't because she right away caught me. And she was. She was just like just lightning fast with her wit. And it was amazing. And so we would joke with each other many times and nothing would ever be said.
00:06:26
Speaker
You know, it would be ah a glance or a look or a laugh or something and we would start cracking up. And it was all always that way through our whole relationship, even to the very, very end. um Humor was like a like a safe home. A safe haven. A safe haven, as they say. Yeah, to carry us through the the hard times, which we found.
00:06:47
Speaker
And humor is in grief, something that sometimes people don't realize ah that for a lot of us, it is another huge tool that we can use in our grief journey in that moment as someone is being faced with death.
00:07:04
Speaker
But also then after we ourselves are living our lives without them, humor also can end up becoming a part. After, you know, it's it's very hard because there's so much sadness and it's just, it's so thick all the time.
00:07:20
Speaker
And i remember the first time that, that like blinks of joy started to show up after, you know, in this past year since she passed. And I didn't know what to think about it because I felt guilty because I was, I would laugh at a joke or something. And, but then I would like feel an attachment to the sadness and feel like I was doing a disservice and finding joy. And then, so I really, i really battled with that a lot and,
00:07:48
Speaker
And i I know that if there was one thing she would want of me and our girls is to be joyful. So for me, it's become a home base. Like how do I get to joy every day? Because I've learned that just because you have joy doesn't mean you don't have sadness.
00:08:05
Speaker
Exactly. they're not They can live side by side. And that's not pulling from the other one. And in fact, I think it's more honoring to find joy than it is to to sit in sadness.
00:08:18
Speaker
And that's ah a hard truth and it's been very hard, a hard journey to to, be a part of. Um, but I believe it's true. Especially if if what they represented was that joy and that spark and that wit, yeah right? It's like you for you. And she was that. Then you're like, I need to represent more of what this energy of joy is. And like you said, they they go hand in hand. I don't know at what point in our lives when we were little or whatever that we just would think that –
00:08:51
Speaker
we had to, it was one thing or the other, right? it is That with that we we couldn't feel sad and feel happy or we were always, people were always trying to fix, you know, our parents might have always trying to fix how we were feeling in a moment rather than just honoring how we were feeling in that moment. And so we kind of complementalize the emotions as if they have to just have a certain order or yeah, like they they just, and I love that they can go hand in hand.
00:09:21
Speaker
It's not one or the other.
Life Transitions and Challenges
00:09:23
Speaker
I had a really interesting moment when, so with the girls, our daughters, they're eight and 10 right now. And um we've really, like I said, we've really been trying to find joy.
00:09:32
Speaker
And there was one morning when we were driving to school and my daughter put Michael Jackson on, on the, the seat or CD or whatever. and And we're in the neighborhood and I pulled over to the side of the road and I i got out and started to dance and in the street just to be to be stupid. and And my daughters, they were both laughing and one of them started crying because she was laughing so much.
00:09:55
Speaker
And I was like, oh, it's like sadness, like tears come out of us when we're sad. and And also tears come out of us when we're joyful. And i was like, joy and sadness just embrace in tears.
00:10:08
Speaker
and And it hit me. I was like, this is, there's something unifying in in our, in our tears. And um because she was no doubt, like it was funny. She was having a good time. It wasn't sadness, but I was like, that's really, really a beautiful thing.
00:10:21
Speaker
It's so true because it's like how many times do you see even the little cartoons, you know, with the laughing thing, but tears coming out of their eyes as they're laughing because it is so true. Laughter does bring up, like when you're really like laughing, so belly laughing, tears are going to come out. Yeah. So it is very, love the way they pointed that out. Okay. So you guys met, tell us now into your marriage and starting family and how did you go from LA to then Texas, like that journey of your life. And then we'll go into the diagnosis.
00:10:53
Speaker
Okay. So yeah, so we met, it was probably a year until we started dating. um And, and then once, once we started dating, it was, it was basically like, when are we having kids? There was no courtship really. There wasn't, you know, it wasn't like, let's go out on our first date. We were just, we were so in step at that point that It was just, when's this going to happen? So we dated for about a year.
00:11:19
Speaker
were engaged for about, i don't know, 10 months or something like that. And then when we got married, we were three months pregnant. So for all of you doing the math, it works out. We were engaged before we were pregnant. like you know don't be Don't be upset.
00:11:34
Speaker
but um So we had our first daughter. So we got married in 2014.
00:11:40
Speaker
we got We still live in Los Angeles. um We had our first daughter in 15, had our second daughter in 16, left Los Angeles in 18. I um i sold my piece of the of the business. She made an exit on her teaching job and the the barbecue restaurant. We left a giant community of people. We had spent a decade in Los Angeles and it was very sad, but we didn't want to raise our babies there.
00:12:07
Speaker
So we had our two daughters. Uh, we, in 2018, we sold everything we owned, our cars, everything and bought an RV and drove for 40 days and traveled around and spent a week at the beach or a month at the beach and, um, traveled back and landed in Kansas. And that was a ah tremendous story. And there are stories and stories and stories in traveling. And we lived in an ah RV for a year.
00:12:35
Speaker
My parents have a property back in the Midwest. And then, um, we We ended up um getting some alpacas ah while we lived in an RV, which is crazy. serious Are you serious? Wait, yeah so where did you put them? Like, I'm even thinking of, it's a hard enough thinking of traveling. I think of this because you're're you're saying like what would be my ideal like retirement, like at one point I'm like, I told but it'd be so cool to just like drive around and then just see where it is that we like living and have two dogs. I can't imagine with two alpacas, you know? well so So we did it. and and I'm sorry. and we had it was It was just the kids and us. And then my parents lived on a property out there.
00:13:15
Speaker
And in our travels, we had we had gone and stayed in an alpaca ranch. And so we had learned about alpacas. We had learned about Great Pyrenees, which are like livestock guardian dogs, and the beauty and the harmony between them. So when we got to my parents' place, we...
00:13:30
Speaker
smart decision, just decided to buy a pregnant alpaca and then ended up with another one. So she had a baby. So then we had three. And then from there, i ended up getting a job managing a ranch.
00:13:43
Speaker
And so we went there, our alpaca herd grew to nine. Um, we ended up with you know ponies and a cow and all these different animals um and you know managing a big ranch. And it was over the course of that time while we were in Kansas that Rafi started to to become me ill. She was working for a while and she she went through bout with Crohn's, which is a terrible thing to to deal with, was able to heal herself of that, which is a testament to who she was and just an amazing human.
Cancer Diagnosis and Community Support
00:14:14
Speaker
And she had had PCOS when she was younger.
00:14:17
Speaker
And she had healed herself of that as well. So diet and lifestyle had had done this twice. And then we we got to this, this ranch place and that was where the diagnosis happened. So when that diagnosis came about, this was in 2020, we, you know, sold our alpaca herd. We had a coffee trailer business that we sold.
00:14:38
Speaker
We were just, we were literally ushering dreams out the door. you know, for this new reality that was forced upon us. And it was a very, it was a very sad and very scary time.
00:14:50
Speaker
um If any of you have gone through, you know, ah ah period of diagnosis with someone you love, it's just, it's, it's the worst. um And so that was, there, there was a lot of stories in there, but there, you know, those are the kind of the highlights of the of those years.
00:15:08
Speaker
Wow. It's... It's a lot. so much Yeah, so much in such a short period of time. You guys lived so much life, so much really fully life. We really did.
00:15:20
Speaker
We just, you know, there's there's the the conversation of like burning the ships. And like we've we did that. You know, we were in l LA. We literally went from a a full two bedroom apartment to a 36 foot RV with two kids.
00:15:35
Speaker
And then we drove back and lived in that ah RV for a year and then, you know, to a four bedroom house. And then, you know, then we got, i ended up getting fired from that job for no reason. And we had to get rid of that and back to another motor home or a fifth wheel camper. And like our life was so jam packed every year.
00:15:54
Speaker
There was huge, huge events. Um, but she was home. I did. I didn't care where I was or what I was doing. She was home.
00:16:10
Speaker
Hi, I just had to come on and just kind of interrupt right now this episode that you're hearing. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you guys are listening to this conversation. And every single time i hear a guest, there's something new that I learn and something else that ends up showing up within me that I realize I still have to work on.
00:16:30
Speaker
And if by chance, as you're listening to this conversation, you're feeling the same, that there's parts of you that are being stirred up and you are navigating a life transition right now that feels just heavy and stressful and just layered with grief. I want you to know that you do not have to do it alone.
00:16:48
Speaker
I invite you to connect with me for a free 15 minute discovery call and we'll explore what's coming up for you and see if working together feels like the right fit.
00:16:59
Speaker
Just check the show notes below for my email and reach out for details. I'd really love to support you in integrating these transitions with more ease and clarity.
00:17:12
Speaker
Can't wait to hear back from you. Okay, let's keep on listening to the episode.
00:17:20
Speaker
Yeah. And even just within all those changes, there's also grief in each one of those stages as you leave away, you left your community in Los Angeles as you're building a new one. So when, when you got the diagnosis, you were still camp, you're still in the ranch in Kansas or had you already moved to Texas?
00:17:37
Speaker
No, we're in we're in Kansas. so In Kansas. So you get her diagnosis. And then you mentioned how she decided to deal with her health with Crohn's and pecots and PCOS. So how was that you know, when she was diagnosed, how was the approach of her healing then? And I i do have a disclaimer at the beginning of this podcast that anything that people share here in terms of what they've chosen to do, like it's not medical advice, it's everybody's stories, you know, so it's just individual stories so people can just do their own research. But what was your choice or her choice into how to navigate her journey with cancer at that moment?
00:18:19
Speaker
well the journey started after a surgery so she had a growth on her vulva and we didn't know cancer was even a thing and the the doctor basically said hey you need to have this removed she said okay and so we went into the surgery and they said it's either going to be a vulvectomy or a radical vulvectomy which neither one are are good things radical is the more aggressive version and so and that's all we knew And so she goes into the surgery and I'm sweating. And, you know, if you've ever been in a waiting room, it's the worst thing ever.
00:18:56
Speaker
And they call me in after a few hours and the doctor says, hey, she's she had the radical procedure. um I believe I achieved clean lines and the the mass was cancerous.
00:19:13
Speaker
And so I had to tell her.
00:19:18
Speaker
that that was what came of it because she wasn't in the room. She was recovering. Oh, so the doctor didn't tell her that well you were the one that knew first before she did.
00:19:29
Speaker
Yeah. So that was something that, you know, that was, let's say that's 3 PM in the afternoon. I didn't tell Rafi until 8 30 that night. And so she had to wake up from surgery. I had to get her. We drove an hour home. Her family was at the house.
00:19:44
Speaker
It was like holding onto a bomb. And then I had to break the news to her. And that that conversation is... You don't want to have that conversation with someone, especially the one that you love. you know um That was a really hard day.
00:20:00
Speaker
I'm really surprised, though. I'm really surprised as the approach for even just the medical part, that they that they didn't say you know wait till she would wake up to then tell her. we and Well, the one of the problem...
00:20:15
Speaker
Yeah, it was, you know, she, it probably took her an hour and a half to, to like wake up to like, to where we could leave the hospital and she was not with it.
00:20:27
Speaker
I mean, you can even have a conversation with her until like eight 30 that night. So we're talking about like a five hour period, you know, and you're, you're holding on to this truth of and then having to share it.
00:20:40
Speaker
Granted.
00:20:43
Speaker
it's weird because I would want to be the one to deliver such news because I care, but also i didn't want to hold onto it because you don't want that. And it was really, it was a hard moment.
00:20:55
Speaker
Um, and that everything really, you know, kind of changed from there. Um, so there was, there was a lot of recovery during that period when we found out. So even though we knew this, this knew this about her, there was nothing we could do because she had to recover from her surgery.
00:21:14
Speaker
So we just kind of sat with this for, you know, months, which was, I think, good and torture at the same time, you know, because there's nothing you really can do, but also you're worried and you want to do something.
00:21:26
Speaker
um So we started, you know, integrative care and and things like that, natural stuff like that. And it ended up that it recurred. She had a lymph node in her left inguinal crease. So like where your leg meets your torso, that fold right there.
00:21:44
Speaker
she had a lymph node that was growing and, ah we were doing integrative care, all of these different therapies. And then that thing grew to the size of a grapefruit and then, and then burst through her skin.
00:22:03
Speaker
And so the doctor we were going to at the time was like, Hey, you guys, this is an integrative oncologist. She was like, you guys need to go like, conventional, like bring out the big guns because we're, we're losing to this thing, right? Our treatment path is, is losing to its growth.
00:22:22
Speaker
So it was then that we, we really had kind of a, we're in a hard spot because that was the choice. She didn't want to do that. She wanted to, to, to approach it from integrative perspective, um, in a much more, i would say like health conscious, natural way.
00:22:41
Speaker
I, was watching my wife suffer. And I was like, no, we're not doing that. We're like, we're going to get chemotherapy, whatever we're going we're going to go do that. And that was one of the probably most important moments I would say in our marriage is that we sat on the living room floor and we were, were diametrically opposed. we We could not agree.
00:23:03
Speaker
And, and it was in that that moment, however long that was, that I realized that it was much more important that I support her than I bring the solution to the the thing.
00:23:20
Speaker
And so we both chose to lay down our swords and look at this thing from the same side of the table and and unify ourselves in our path. And ultimately, that looked like conventional treatment.
00:23:36
Speaker
But us doing it together was more important than me telling her what to do.
Navigating Treatment Decisions Together
00:23:44
Speaker
And that was really a a powerful thing in our marriage and a thing that unified us and and I believe allowed us to to make it through the next you know three or four years of a struggle.
00:24:02
Speaker
It's so hard in those moments because as someone is being faced with their own health challenges and mortality, right? It's like you want to honor what they want to do. But at the same time, it's like, I'm the one that's going to have to.
00:24:19
Speaker
figure out how to live without you or what, right too, if by chance they choose differently. So it's, it can be, you have to also be detached from your own ideas to allow for the other person. But it's it's, I love that you guys were able to compromise in a way that brought harmony into the way that you approached the treatment, because that would have been harder, right? Had you continued to be in opposite ways and views.
00:24:48
Speaker
Yeah. She's, you know, she's already struggling enough physically and and all mentally, emotionally, all the things. So to also be quarreling with me about what we should do is, is very silly.
00:25:01
Speaker
Um, and, and so I, there was, and it's interesting because there's a lot of chatter, um, from people around you in these, in these scenarios.
00:25:12
Speaker
And it's very hard to, to to think from a place of of of unity, right? Because you're hearing, you should do this, you should do that, you should do this and all these different points of view. And, um you know, i i finally had to come to terms with, listen,
00:25:30
Speaker
it This is her experience. This her life. This is her choice. I am here to support her. Of course, I have an opinion. Of course, I have a viewpoint. Of course, I have a vote to cast.
00:25:42
Speaker
But I'm also not going to, you know, puppet her through this. She's a very smart person. She's capable of of choosing things. and And I think that's a testament to to, you know, a marriage that works is like we walk side by side.
00:26:00
Speaker
You know, it's, it's, and so that's what we did. Oh, well, thank you for sharing that really hard juncture in your marriage, but that ultimately flowed into then what became then this journey that you traveled together as she was going then through chemo and the traditional ah treatments then for her cancer.
00:26:24
Speaker
When did you guys decide to start journaling the process and how was like the treatment? Like, yeah yeah, let's go with that. How, when did you guys start deciding to journal your process?
00:26:38
Speaker
So when it's, when, excuse me, um, things started after the surgery, um, when things started to kind of get out of control, when the other lymph node was growing and,
00:26:51
Speaker
And we started to realize that we are currently in a ballgame that we're not prepared for. We we don't have the wherewithal to do this. We started to say, okay, well, let's let's share about what we're going through because our situation was very different from everyone else in our life.
00:27:06
Speaker
We had made a tremendous exit in our life. We had gone and done all these things. And so we had always kind of like sprinkled social media with what we were doing and been and writing about it. But then we decided to start writing in a more...
00:27:20
Speaker
you know, raw and authentic and, and, and an intimate way about what was going on. Um, so was probably, I would say it was maybe two, maybe 2020, 2021. Um, and that's when, you know, we started to talk about, Hey, we should in sharing our experience, we should bring both of our points of view to the table because her being, you know, she was,
00:27:47
Speaker
very, very headstrong, um just a very deep thinker and, and, and very in touch with, with the earth and her emotions and all these things. And she had a very firm point of view on things. And it was, you know, bringing that to the table was important. You know, she came from the birth world. She was, she was a doula. She was a teacher. She was just a brilliant person in conversation. So her point of view is beautiful. And then I have a whole different point of view.
00:28:14
Speaker
And so we kind of started to write basically is what we did. And we both continue that all the way through our journey through, you know, certain times we would write certain things and I wasn't writing to respond to her. She wasn't writing with me in mind. We were just writing about our experience and that come comes into play much later.
00:28:37
Speaker
But in the sharing, you know, there are real beauty started to show up out of that. People,
00:28:46
Speaker
You know, you you don't need to carry the hard seasons of your life because people care. And it's a month maybe cry it's amazing when you put something out there that hurts.
00:29:02
Speaker
Who steps forward and who shares and who who gathers around you? And I tell you this because our story would not be possible without literally thousands and thousands of people that came behind us and helped us.
00:29:21
Speaker
And I wouldn't have had five years to fight for her because she would have been dead the first time. We couldn't have done it. I mean, there's we didn't have the finances. We didn't have anything.
00:29:34
Speaker
And so that's, you know, that it's it all came from our our willingness to share. And it wasn't, you know, there's enough pain. Like you don't need to hold onto it.
00:29:49
Speaker
Like you can share and you'll still be sad. You can, there's still pain. You know it's not, you don't need to, to carry it all. I mean, I couldn't, I was, I couldn't do it. um So that was when a a whole new experience opened up for us was in the sharing.
00:30:08
Speaker
And you built community then around this aspect then of your, of your lives and had that support. Like you said, you didn't have to do it alone. and support i mean And there's so much vulnerability in that aspect of, of allowing people to support. But at the same time, there's so much strength in knowing that you are willing to take help.
The Role of Community Generosity
00:30:31
Speaker
I mean, I, that was really hard. We, I remember the first time, The first time we you know put up a GoFundMe and we have done, i think, three or four, i don't even know anymore, but we were really struggling with asking for help because I want to solve the problem.
00:30:49
Speaker
it is It is very much like an ego thing. I want to solve it. I want to have the solution. I don't do well accepting that I don't have a solution. And she was the same way. She wanted to figure it out because she had figured out her health in the past.
00:31:04
Speaker
and And we really had to to work and, you know, humble ourselves. And we a friend of ours actually put it up for us because we we made it okay for ourselves to to ask, but I didn't want to write it.
00:31:22
Speaker
You know, and it was like a little bit of distance away from it. And we were in our kitchen. I'll never forget it the ranch. And we had to make decisions like big ones.
00:31:33
Speaker
And she's in pain. She's, you know, got a wound that's it's bleeding every day. I mean, this is we're in a bad way. Very much. We don't have any answers. We financially, there's it's not possible.
00:31:46
Speaker
um I'm physically exhausted because I'm working at a ranch. We have two little kids. Life is nuts. And we, this GoFundMe goes up and I, you know, my wife was very, she didn't like technology. She didn't like to look at at the time. You know, she just was that person. She was in her own moment and it was such a beautiful thing.
00:32:09
Speaker
And I flipped open my phone and that GoFundMe had gone over $50,000. And that meant that we could make choices. That meant that we could go get treatment.
00:32:20
Speaker
That meant that that we weren't dead, you know? And, um, I'll never forget because she, um, she was a ah giver. She was like the quintessential mother. She was always trying to help you. She was always trying to do something for you or someone else. She was never thinking of self, but to watch her receive the love in that moment was like, I mean, cause she had no choice, you it, it was just there, you know, there was no, um
00:32:52
Speaker
There's no choice. And so, and that was how our story went. And um it was that, it was lapsed around that same track. You know, it was, it was the admit you're not in control, ask for help and God's grace shows up through a bunch of people.
00:33:10
Speaker
And it was, the story is incredible. i mean, it's, it's, it's mind blowing. Wow. So this was five years of then that process? to No. How many? to So the 2020, when was, I don't know her date. What is the date of her passing?
00:33:27
Speaker
Uh, last December, 12th, 12th, 24th. 12, 12, 24, um, recording as we're recording this and still in 25, the, um, when you then started then this treatment, so it was less than four, less than five. So the less than five years, cause it was all of, or I guess all of 2020, 20, I guess. Yeah.
00:33:52
Speaker
Maybe yeah it was, it was right about five years. Right, about five years. So you start the treatment, you have the funds now because of this outpouring of love and support.
00:34:03
Speaker
And how did you navigate informing the girls about this too Because they were so young at that time. How did they play a part in the journey of you guys going through this journey of cancer together?
00:34:20
Speaker
Well, we were very much of the viewpoint that we were doing this as a family. And we weren't going to shield them from anything. we weren't going to hide anything from them. And so we referred to her situation as a bump.
00:34:35
Speaker
Mama has a bump. You know, at this time you're talking about three-year-old and a five-year-old. So our biggest fear was that, you know, of they would hear the word, can they would know the word cancer and they would say it in words.
00:34:51
Speaker
In a setting and someone would react in a super negative way. And then that would inform their perception of what was happening to their mother. So we treated it as a bump.
00:35:04
Speaker
they They knew she was sick. They knew. i mean, they see her. They, you know, she's laying in bed all day. They know. But. bringing all of the rest of that on board is something that a small child just doesn't need to deal with.
00:35:16
Speaker
You know, they know she's ill. And so, but also they saw everything. Now they didn't see, you know, the wound care and the blood and any of that stuff. She, she kept that hidden from them for five years, which is an an amazing feat.
00:35:31
Speaker
um But they knew they were, you know, they knew what was happening. They knew where she was, you know, they saw her every day. So we, we just, that was the way we, we went about it.
00:35:42
Speaker
And at what point of the conversation, like at what point within the treatment of her treatment, did you guys already know that, that this was basically it? At what point did you stop chemo and just allow it to happen? Or how was that process of already realization of that that death was the the next step basically there was a lot there was a lot so we um our first so we had the surgery in kansas city um after the surgery we went to a cancer treatment center in tulsa and she received nine weeks of chemo and radiation and that was that where that bump was you know the big one on her left hip um that treatment was successful that bump completely went away
00:36:30
Speaker
um she was going to have a major reconstructive surgery. Like they, they explained it like an eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper was going to be cut away and they were going to take skin from other places and replace it.
00:36:43
Speaker
And at that point we were on board, we were going to do it. And then the cancer center closed. So then, so then we we were waiting for the surgery. So they weren't going to, they didn't do the surgery. So we,
00:36:56
Speaker
Then have to scramble around because she's got this, you know, hole in her hip, you know, that we need to repair. And we were going to do the surgery. I mean, we were on board with that whole thing and it was going to happen in 30 days.
00:37:11
Speaker
And the cancer center closes. so then we we traveled to to Chicago to another sister cancer center, had a horrible experience there, ended up down in Atlanta. And this is still during the time, this is also right around the time of COVID, the pandemic. This is in COVID, yeah. Right. So then that plays COVID didn't exist. It didn't exist to us, really, other than I couldn't go to her doctor's appointments. Right. No, but that's that's exactly it. So then that it it it could impact the type of service that you might have been receiving in some of the places or the amount of people that were there or things like that, or like even this cancer center closing or things like that, that that
Facing New Challenges Amidst Illness
00:37:51
Speaker
would...
00:37:51
Speaker
could have have been affected by that too? I think the cancer center closed just due to the the state laws of Oklahoma, I think was part of part of the deal. But we ended up at the same same company, Cancer Treatment Centers of America in Atlanta.
00:38:08
Speaker
And, um, Tulsa, great experience, Chicago, not a good experience, Atlanta, another great experience there. We traveled back and forth from Atlanta for, i don't know, a year and a half, um, had a couple small surgeries there, um had, uh, some immunotherapy there.
00:38:30
Speaker
Might've had some chemo there. i don't think we had radiation there. I think radiation is only one time. Um, And then kind of came to a place where the immunotherapy wasn't working anymore and it was coming back.
00:38:48
Speaker
Then i can't remember how all these things happened, but I was fired from the ranch. So we lost our house and job in one day. um The next the next day, basically someone gave us a fifth wheel camper to live in two kids, two dogs, me and Raf, uh, someone gave us ah an RV spot on their property to live.
00:39:14
Speaker
I mean, the things that happened were just beyond comprehension. Yeah. Miracles, and little miracles. Yeah. miracle They are. And, um, so then ended up in Atlanta, um, kind of run out of options there.
00:39:28
Speaker
Um, I ended up getting fired from another job for no reason again. ah And then um eventually we ended up in Scottsdale at another cancer treatment center because she was having another another flare up. I would say over the course of the four or five years, there was three to four, like I would maybe call them like a tumor surge.
00:39:54
Speaker
And then we and then there were there was the attack, right? There was the treatment we would pursue. When it just kind of like kept moving, the the general area was, I would tell you, if you were, if you were sitting on a saddle, all the areas that were touching the saddle or the areas that were tumors.
00:40:12
Speaker
So, you know, for a mother, a female, the worst place, like, I don't know that there could be a worse place. um So we ended up in Scottsdale.
00:40:24
Speaker
um We, at this point we've, you know, three, three GoFundMes. We've been drained of money. We've lost houses. We lost, jet like we have have nothing really. We're, you know, um and they tell us, well, it's going to be basically, you know, it's going to be a couple hundred thousand dollars for 14 weeks of treatment, but we can treat you.
00:40:45
Speaker
like Okay. Like, like we're just have them just sitting in our bank account or something. Cause we didn't, they, um, They say, well, if you you know if you want to do this, we need you to do a blood test today. And it's $2,000.
00:41:00
Speaker
That basically was like, we can pay you for the blood test, but then we can't pay our rent. And then we can't eat type of deal. Like, yes, we can give you the money, but we're... And so we agreed because that was our only move. We're going to do it.
00:41:16
Speaker
And I promise you, we went home. freaking out. And I'm telling you, my wife can't sit. Okay. She can't sit because of the tumors.
00:41:27
Speaker
She can't lay on her back. She can't walk. She can't sit. Hasn't been able to sit for six months. Flew to Scottsdale from Kansas city, hours on a plane, flew back home.
Rafaela's Final Moments and Legacy
00:41:42
Speaker
She can't, you know, so she would have to, like rock down on her back and and put her feet up on the chair in front of her just to get, I mean, it was, it was an act of God that we were able to get there.
00:41:53
Speaker
And then we get there and this is what the conversation is. And they were willing to help. It was just, they, the the way that it works there is that you pay cash. So we go home, we go through this whole thing again of like swallow your ego, ask for help.
00:42:07
Speaker
We ask for help, let her go fund me. 10 days later, we're driving back to Scottsdale with that money in a bank account. And I, was a God thing. Like I don't, I claim no responsibility.
00:42:23
Speaker
I just watched it happen. And it was, that is, this happened so many times in our story. And then we went to Scottsdale, had treatment there for four months. We lived there as a family for four months.
00:42:38
Speaker
Then we go back to Kansas City. The house wasn't the vibe in the house. You know, she laid there for two years thinking she was going to pass away. So she's like i don't want to be there. That was when we came to Texas and that was the last leg of our pursuing treatment.
00:42:51
Speaker
And we ultimately lost her here. The story, like it's, there's so much, there's so much. There is so much and so much. It's still so fresh. Has any been a year as we're talking about this and as like, even just recounting each of the chapters in your life,
00:43:16
Speaker
in this journey ends up being part of your process as well of grief in that process as you're sharing each one again and kind of like reliving it and kind of re chronicling everything that that occurred. So thank you for, for doing that. And as the listeners are hearing this, if you're right now in that type of situation,
00:43:39
Speaker
You know, we this can be sometimes hard to hear, but at the same time, this is, you know, a reality a reality that that can occur. And I think that if anything we've learned in this conversation up to now is the also the asking asking for help or wait be willing to be helped so that you're able to allow the miracles kind of flow. And in this case, you were able to, you know, pursue treatment and have her be with you guys longer than you would have had you not asked for help.
00:44:16
Speaker
So now let's go into your grief tools after, or if you want to take into even just the moments of her, of her death, where you all present and was the, and what were her desires and wishes around about dying?
00:44:40
Speaker
Um, we were here, it was in this house, um, that, that she passed, um, And we were all there together. The girls were there. we were that you know we were all there. Her family was there. My family was here. um you know just There's nothing you can do.
00:45:02
Speaker
And it's so hard. um
00:45:08
Speaker
But we didn't hide it from anybody. you know, our kids were there the whole time. Um, there are so many, you know, stories of just heartbreak inside of that, but who was I to shield them from time with their mother?
00:45:21
Speaker
You know, um, I, I don't regret any of the time that we spent together, you know, it's, it's at all.
00:45:35
Speaker
Um, But that's, I think the best thing we ever did was do it all together. and And admittedly, I don't have the answers for my kids.
00:45:48
Speaker
And I didn't have them for them. But what I found out is that our kids are much more in tune than we are at many times. um As adults, we're the ones that have to peel away the layers. The kids, man, they they know it.
00:46:03
Speaker
i mean, our dot one of our daughters... drew a picture in my parents' house sometime within the last year of Rafi's life. I don't know when it was, much before we knew that she was going to pass.
00:46:18
Speaker
And my mom didn't think anything of it. And it was just sitting there at her house. And it said, welcome to heaven, 2024. Chills.
00:46:32
Speaker
chills and
00:46:36
Speaker
No one knew. I didn't, no one knew. i mean, i so we got to give kids credit. Cause I mean, it's, it's insane that the connection of those kiddos, yes it was only after everything happened.
Writing as a Tool for Healing
00:46:51
Speaker
And my mom was like sorting through things and she was like, I found this picture, your daughter, Drew. And do you want to see it? And it was, that's what it says. It's in my room. That's fun beautiful. as As you're sharing, you shared that Rafi was also um a doula.
00:47:09
Speaker
She was. and And something that... That I've heard in in an example in that ah that part of dying is that just like as a doula, being there present and helping, ushering somebody into this world, there's also this ushering, right? There's death doulas as well, right? There's birth doulas and death doulas of ushering people as they're exiting this world, but...
00:47:38
Speaker
entering another one, right? So it whatever that may be and whatever connotation someone may have. So it seems like you're your daughter already had that very much in tune that she was going to be entering another one and had that. is That is just beautiful. So After her her passing then, what were some of the tools that you used? You used writing, continued writing. it's um It's been less than a year again since her passing and now you have the book already written. So take us into that journey of your process of of grief.
00:48:18
Speaker
um I didn't know what to do. you know and Your life explodes and there's just nothing I didn't know what to do. and Our kids began because we homeschooled them. So they began going to school three weeks after she passed or about a month after she passed. So that whole ushering them into school thing, she was a teacher by trade. Like that was her ball game, not mine.
00:48:44
Speaker
I couldn't even speak to the teachers. I was just in tears the whole time. So then... The kids go to school and I have all this this open time, you know, because the last months of her life were very logistical with, you know, wound care and all the stuff you're doing. And it's okay. I'm happy to do it. But it's logistics, right? It's it's constant constant attention to detail. Well, when she was gone, there's this huge void of of time. Right.
00:49:12
Speaker
And then the kids are in school, so that's even worse and even more profound. And so I just kind of curled up on the couch and watched movies. I didn't know what to do with myself. um Eventually, I started to write because I knew that writing was a safe space for me and a way to just take the storm that was inside and just let it leave.
00:49:34
Speaker
You know, not for any purposes, just to let it leave. It was during that time that I remembered... that we had wanted to write a book because we had spoken about writing a book in like 2021. We had just never gotten to it because of our life, obviously. And so I i started to to think about how I could write the book that we wanted to write because I didn't want to write another book. I wanted to write that book because that was what we wanted to do.
00:50:04
Speaker
And, you know, when your person dies, all the stuff you were looking forward to with them is gone. It just goes away.
00:50:14
Speaker
And that's so hard to deal with that you just, it's like a, like a forever time lapse over, but you're still here. And it's like, well, it's very confusing.
00:50:27
Speaker
so it only the Yeah, it's not only losing the person, but it's losing your hopes, your dreams, your desires, your identity, everything. It's just so many layers of grief in that moment that it's yeah it's compiled into all.
00:50:44
Speaker
yes i Yeah, so it it allowed me to like reach back and and do this thing. And so, as I mentioned earlier, we had been writing for years. And I knew that she had written. I just didn't really know what.
00:50:56
Speaker
So I went back and was looking at her writings. So what I did was is I took the majority of those and I and i put them into a timeline. And what you have was a very sparsely told story, a very focused, raw, intimate expressions of what she was going through.
00:51:14
Speaker
And the only reason I knew it was a story was because I was there and I could i could fill in the gaps in my head. So I went to my writings and put the same sort of writings from me into the same timeline. So then you have a much fuller story, still missing parts. It's like a patchwork quilt that has a bunch of patches missing.
00:51:35
Speaker
And then I went through as a narrator present day and kind of wove them together, added a patch here, added a patch there. And then there were these moments, these undeniable moments, like the Scottsdale moment.
00:51:49
Speaker
There's probably 50 of them. And we started to call them Jesus moments throughout our story where it was like we had no hope. It was over. And then all of a sudden it was like, if if this is our frame of reference, a solution appeared out of nowhere. And there was these Jesus moments and they were just mind blowing. And there's so many of them.
00:52:09
Speaker
So I put those in there. And then my my pastor is a good friend of mine gave me a Bible verse for each one of those. So in the end, what you have is you have a story that is told from three perspectives. It's told from or in three voices. I i take that back. It's told from Rafi's voice.
00:52:26
Speaker
These are her original unedited words. There are spelling errors, grammatical errors. They're all there. Rafi's voice, my voice, and then God's voice. Tell one story. And i don't I don't ever say he said, she said. You've got my my text is in normal font.
00:52:42
Speaker
Her text is in bold. And the Jesus moments are in shaded background. So you just read the story as one.
The Book: A Shared Dream and Its Impact
00:52:48
Speaker
You can see when the voices change. And it's very obvious. But it's this multidimensional look at this story that is remarkable. And she, you know, there are a lot of people, a ton of people that knew her in her life.
00:53:04
Speaker
And they would all say she's remarkable. She's one of one. And none of them knew this stuff. And this stuff makes it is just like she's unbe she's an unbelievable human. And there's just no way that this story happens and it's not told. It's like there's no freaking way. So.
00:53:26
Speaker
Most of it, you know, is this is this in the moment raw, these these writings. And and i'm as a writer, you know, your ability to recall something in the past.
00:53:38
Speaker
there's a zoom out that happens. You're not able to give it the teeth that it has when you're in the moment. You're not able to give it the gripping words, the emotional, you know, words that you are when it's happening.
00:53:50
Speaker
And so most of this book is that way it's in the moment and it's raw and it's unfiltered and it's, it's, it, it, it just gets you, you know? And so it's very, very unique, but, but it very much is, you know,
00:54:06
Speaker
the best way I could recreate, um you know, this goal that we had in our life. So, and and that was, you know, she, she passed in December and, you know, I was, you know, I was holding the book in August and that's wild.
00:54:23
Speaker
mean, that, that was really a um crazy, crazy moment. And it still is. I mean, it's still is a crazy thing. Yeah. that You were able to birth birth this together. This is your new, the new baby you guys now have together is this book because it is both of your stories and and then God within it as well. it is And then you birth it. Let's see. Nine months later. There you go.
00:54:48
Speaker
the December. That's funny. that's funny I think about that. It's very funny. It's very funny. So I want to ask you the why the title, Thank You Cancer. Why did you choose to have it be a thank you cancer rather than what most people up out there say about cancer, which says starts with an F and then U. So let's go.
00:55:17
Speaker
ah Let's go into why I think you can answer. A couple of things. So if you can see this, there's a comma right there. huh And as a writer, that means that means something, right? okay got Thank you. And then cancer.
00:55:31
Speaker
I, I, I would love to tell you, but I could not create a worthy context around telling you in a conversation.
00:55:42
Speaker
um It is in the book. Okay. And there's a very good reason for the title. Okay. But i i would I would do an injustice to answering that question if you didn't have the context of the book. Of the book, yeah. And I did not read it prior to us. No, it's okay. because you book to But i'm not I've not answered anyone that question. That question. So it's like that that gives us is as the listeners.
00:56:07
Speaker
It's a very important – first of all, it's a very polarizing title. i'm I'm aware of that. um Actually, i was sitting in church the other day, and I had a book with me to give to someone, and someone behind me was like, what is that book?
00:56:22
Speaker
and And then the conversation happened, you know and they had had cancer in their experience. and um There's a very good reason for it. And and i'm i'm very proud to I'm very proud to honor the conversation that comes from that.
00:56:38
Speaker
From it. And we would find out when we read it as to why it is. so Danny, please share with us how people can get the book. And then and i have a ah last question for you before we close off. So how can people get the book and also get in touch with you?
00:56:58
Speaker
Yeah. So the book is, if you're in the U S there is, there's a link, I will send you the book. So, um, the way that the publisher works is, um, they send all the books to me and I personalize them and send them to you.
00:57:11
Speaker
So if you're in the U S um, there's a blue hat publishing link and I'll, I'll send that to you and you can put it in the show notes or something. It's also, um, like on my Instagram profile, you can find it. Um, if you're, if you're abroad, meaning outside the United States, you can find it on Amazon.
00:57:27
Speaker
Perfect. Perfect. so so and and ease And they can find it either looking for your name or the title of the book. Thank you, com answer, cancer yeah or Danny Leslie. And then rafay is Rafaela's name on it as well.
00:57:42
Speaker
And Rafaela. Rafaela Dobles. Rafaela Dobles as well. So Danny Leslie and Rafaela Dobles as authors. So Danny, I always like to ask my guests if there's something I have not asked you that you want to make sure you share with the listeners regarding either your story or about grief.
Conclusion: The Power of Storytelling in Grief
00:58:19
Speaker
I think the most profound thing is,
00:58:24
Speaker
can't even say it. um You're not alone.
00:58:31
Speaker
And man, it feels like you're alone all the time, but you're not. And I've been fortunate enough to, and because of my willingness to share, I've realized that. And I realized that over and over and over again.
00:58:48
Speaker
And, it's uncanny on the, on the hardest days that I have. ah I swear this is how raft takes care of me. I get inundated with messages from people like that read the book that you, whatever. And today was one of those days. Today is a hard day and there's no handles on grief. You don't control them.
00:59:11
Speaker
But I will tell you that the messages that I receive are very pointed and You're just not alone. And it's, and people do care.
00:59:25
Speaker
My goodness, people care and they want help. And, but they don't know if, if you're struggling and, and you don't share, no one knows. And I'm the guy, like I, I will be going through the worst day of my life and I'll smile at you.
00:59:42
Speaker
And, and I'll also tell you if you ask me, um but it's,
00:59:50
Speaker
in the In the sharing, there's there's come so much beauty in this this dark season. and i'll I couldn't imagine going back and trying to carry all of this without sharing about it or the support that just shows up. I couldn't imagine it.
01:00:08
Speaker
Thank you, Dani. And that's the reason of this podcast as well, because it is another way of people to know that they are not alone in their grief journey as they are listening to these stories that they can relate in their own lives.
01:00:22
Speaker
And so I appreciate you being here. Grateful that you're here and sharing this very raw and real, still very fresh grief. Grief, I mean, grief does not end it shifts, but right now it's still very fresh, yeah very fresh,
01:00:37
Speaker
grief And i I think that it's important for people to hear that fresh and rawness of grief as well, because some of the ones that are listening are exactly in that space in their life. And a lot of times they don't allow themselves to...
01:00:56
Speaker
share with others that they're not feeling okay and receive that love and that support from others. So thank you for those words. And thank you for sharing your story, Rafaela's story, the girl's story, the alpacas, the alpacas story. Yeah.
01:01:12
Speaker
There could still be an apaca farm still ah again in your future, maybe one day. There might be. yeah You could continue that legacy of of what you guys had started and then stopped because of just life circumstances at that moment. So you never know where your story unfolds. And I would love to be able to have you some years down the line to share where your story has unfolded then too. So please come back and share your journey with us as well.
01:01:39
Speaker
Thank you, Danny. Thank you so much. Thank
01:01:46
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
01:01:59
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
01:02:15
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
01:02:27
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.