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Episode 45 - WIB GREATEST HITS @ Making It 500 LIVE EVENT
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This is a special LIVE RECORDING of the Woodworking is Bullsh*t podcast with Jimmy Diresta, Derek from Malden, and Justine Silva. Recorded at the Celebration of the 500th episode of the Making It Podcast, we cover some of our GREATEST HITS, meaning questions that we find particularly compelling such as 1) What to do when the creative well runs dry? 2) Dealing with Imposter Syndrome, and 3) Perfectionism: friend or foe?. Does Jimmy Diresta ever feel like an imposter despite a lifetime of making and over 900 youtube videos? Tune in to find out!
To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon: (http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467) http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467
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Transcript
Special Live Episode Announcement
00:00:01
Speaker
Today, we have a very special episode of Woodworking is Bullshit. It's a live episode that we recorded in front of a studio audience at the Making It podcast 500th episode celebration.
Guest Introductions and Revealing Questions
00:00:14
Speaker
They asked us to record a live episode along with them. And we featured our greatest hits. So this is three questions that we think are particularly revealing. And we asked these questions to Jimmy DiResta, Derek from Malden, and Justine Silva, who have never been on the podcast before.
00:00:33
Speaker
And let me tell you, these questions cut deep. Because you know that's what we like to do. And I was very intrigued to hear the answers of the entire panel.
00:00:45
Speaker
I think
Philosophy of the Podcast
00:00:46
Speaker
each of them has a very unique perspective on ah creativity and what happens when the well runs dry, imposter syndrome, and perfectionism.
00:00:57
Speaker
Those are the three. I hope you enjoyed this episode and feel free to leave comments down below. so This is Woodworking is Bullshit. I'm your host, Paul Jasper. a scientist by day, woodworker by night for the last 20 years.
00:01:11
Speaker
And our show is not about how to make things. I think we have enough podcasts about how to do the thing. It's about why we do the thing. It's about the creative...
00:01:21
Speaker
emotional, mental, philosophical side of what it's like to be makers and artists. And we don't talk about this enough. How many times have you seen a video about how to cut a better dovetail or how to make something, right?
00:01:38
Speaker
How many times have you had a video come out in our space about what it's like to be lonely in your shop because
Creativity and Loneliness in the Workshop
00:01:44
Speaker
you're alone all the time? And how do you deal with it Have you seen a podcast or or heard a video about creativity?
00:01:52
Speaker
And what did bla what do you do if you're in a rut? What do you do And you have deadlines. Or do you feel like an imposter? Like you're supposed to be this big time baker or whatever, you you happen to be an artist and you don't feel in your own head like, I don't um't really, they haven't figured it out yet, but I don't quite feel like I um really know what I'm doing.
00:02:12
Speaker
And I think these are conversations I think all of us have had in our heads, but no one wants to talk about it except me. and Harry. So we started this podcast with the goal of taking on the mental, creative, emotional, philosophical questions that we were dealing with all the time. And we just wanted to talk about it. And we thought, why don't we record it?
00:02:34
Speaker
Because maybe it'll help some people and it'll resonate with So that's what this podcast is about. It's not going to teach you how to make the thing, but we're going to explore why we make the thing. And so my three esteemed distinguished colleagues up here have the the opportunity to express how do they deal with some of these questions and we can like go back and forth. And I'm going to ask the audience for participation in the forums like raising your hand, because this is the vulnerable part of today is where we all share the truth behind it's like to be a maker.
00:03:06
Speaker
All right. So with that, Today i'm bringing what I consider like some of our greatest tips, meeting questions you think are just so good that so many of us can relate to. and i did give them a little prep beforehand so they knew what they were walking into.
00:03:20
Speaker
and so We'll start with the first question and we'll we'll go from there. so whether Question number one.
Enjoying the Creative Process
00:03:28
Speaker
Whether you're a YouTube creator making videos or whether you're a woodworker or whatever you do, whatever you make,
00:03:36
Speaker
there comes these ebbs and flows to the creative cycle sometimes you're so hot to try you can't wait to get in and there and do the thing you're dude like literally insatiable right this inspiration is like welling up inside you no one can keep you away and then there's times where it's like this is a grind. I'm on video. How many YouTube videos people?
00:03:57
Speaker
About 900 maybe more. So you know I'm sure and you're gonna answer first. I'm sure we we've all gone through when you're just not feeling it and you feel like I've gone cold.
00:04:09
Speaker
I don't know not feeling it. I don't feel like I much to say. You run out of ideas. You run out of ideas? Fans always seem to notice that before being there. Or if you were to look at this, you you have to do creativity on demand because you have deadlines.
00:04:23
Speaker
You have to do the thing and you're not fueling the thing. So the question, and by the way, how many people relate to this? Raise your hand. Everybody's raised. Okay, great.
00:04:36
Speaker
So Jimmy. Obviously, 900,000, that's a lot. How do you deal with, especially, when you get the ebb? Well, I'll put it to this way. I never really, ah never had a loss for an idea. I'm usually at a loss for a quality idea.
00:04:52
Speaker
And so there's always things, I'll always have something, whether I'm 100% proud of it or 50% proud of it, that's where I feel the ebb and flow. It's like promised I promised I'd go to do video for a client, meaning an advertiser, and i might not love the idea, but I'm obligated, the date's coming up and I have to do it.
00:05:12
Speaker
I'm not 100%, and sometimes when I'm not 100% into the idea that I'm about to execute, I always remind myself there's always drama in the process. There'll always be something that I'll be able to highlight.
00:05:25
Speaker
So a lot of times I find the gems in the process and
Overcoming Creative Challenges
00:05:29
Speaker
not the finished piece. So you get to the finish line, like, eh, that's okay, but I really loved when you applied this process.
00:05:36
Speaker
Or I really got the joy out of And you know, that's what I get out of fans. And also me, so I'm always looking for like that interesting sequence of video editing. So ahll there'll always be something within it that gives me the rush that I'm looking for as an artist, the fulfillment of I did a good job because I did this part, mapped one, even though the finish wasn't really what I hoped for.
00:06:00
Speaker
I think at a 10,000 foot view, if you don't enjoy the process, you're probably not going to make it as a maker because you're in the process 99.9% of the I edited that yeah was she do the process is what we have the most of. So you you have to find the enjoyment during that.
00:06:19
Speaker
I do it the same way. The finished product is great at all, but I'm over it by the time I finished it. I'm literally waiting to get the next he idea out. Yeah. A lot of times when I come to that ebb and flow and it's and it's ebbed and there's nothing next, I have to look within myself to be like, okay. I really do ask myself this question. I would what have I been avoiding?
00:06:40
Speaker
What is the project I've been avoiding? There's always something that I don't want to do because it's either I feel like I'm not technically skilled enough to do it or i it's an expensive process or it's the lathe is covered with crap and I don't want to uncover the lathe to make 12 horse balls.
00:06:58
Speaker
Like, there's that. I'm like, that part of the room, and Raul's going laugh, that part of the room is a disaster. There's a car parked in front of it. I haven't turned that lathe on. It's like you were saying earlier how quickly you cleaned up the shop in 45 minutes. That was for 45 people.
00:07:12
Speaker
that Austin Elders, where are you? You're in here somewhere. He helped me clean up the other day. Thank you very much. And I was able going to get to the process of making those porch calls. But there lies lot of those, what is the hurdle? What is the what is the block?
00:07:28
Speaker
And I say it on the podcast all the time. What is that thing that's keeping you from doing this? So when I ebb and flow and I'm not necessarily out of ideas, I'm out of ideas that I want to jump on, I'm like, okay what is the idea I'm avoiding? And why am I avoiding it? I'm avoiding the lathe because it's, I'm afraid, i didn't even measure, off to the left, because I sent a picture of land and they're like, they fit.
00:07:51
Speaker
I knew how long I needed it to be and I never measured the lay-in. So I was expecting to go to the lay-in and oh, the lay is too short, I'll do a different project. I think it's fairly unusual that someone is self-insightful to the point that they acknowledge, number one, that they realize they're avoiding. Always. That's unusual.
00:08:08
Speaker
And second, to take themselves to task and push headfirst towards it. Yeah, that's very
Creativity in Client Work
00:08:14
Speaker
unusual, just so you know. I don't think that's very typical. I've been there for while. But we you, you're very typical.
00:08:18
Speaker
All right, Justine. What do you think? How do you deal with ebb and flow? Well, I'm thinking about this meme that I'm sure you guys have all seen, and it's a ah graph of the creative process, and it like starts at the top, and it's like, this is awesome, this is awesome, this is awesome, this sucks, this sucks, this sucks, it's awful that it comes back around. And so like I always try to just take ground in every project's going to have those moments, and sometimes they're hiding in things. It's the worst when they're the moments that it's like, this actually should be easy.
00:08:46
Speaker
Like, gluing these two things should be easy, but they don't stick together for some reason. And so, I don't know, I think just staying grounded and knowing that it'll come back around and knowing that you just have to stand by what you make is sort of where I stand or I come from.
00:09:01
Speaker
How do you force yourself to come in and work on things that you're just totally not feeling? um Well, I guess my perspective is a a little different because i I make a lot of stuff for clients. So it's not necessarily my project, although I do have to own it.
00:09:17
Speaker
So some of the stuff that I make, I'm really not feeling most of the time, but I can't say that out loud. And so sometimes I'll just come at it from like, you are just putting lipstick on a pig.
00:09:27
Speaker
Like that's what you're doing right now. And it's in its pig stage and we will bring it back around. Sorry, your project isn't pig. You go and client this. don't want to tell you this. Well, I'll give you an example. I was thinking about this when we were talking about those cat holes.
00:09:43
Speaker
That cat, your cat, had seen better days at one point. And I remember my the director turning to me and being like, Justine, you've got to fix this cat. It's deranged. I know it's deranged. can't speak for the way it works and the way it fires. That's my fault. It was your fault.
00:10:00
Speaker
and But I think that like that was at that point in the process of like, this sucks, we're never gonna get it back out. But knowing like, okay, no, this is eligible, we can do it, knowing that by necessarily putting yourself in your abilities, no, by the end it will come back round.
00:10:19
Speaker
And then the next time you have to make a catapult, a giant catapult for TV, you will know. So you're pressed as well.
00:10:27
Speaker
So Derek, you and I have recently spoken about seasonal affective disorder this winter. i know both of us love it.
Seasonal Affective Disorder and Creativity
00:10:36
Speaker
We were having a phone call and he's like, yeah, dude, I just have it. I'm just not feeling it lately. I have a good night shot. But three weeks, I've been in Duncan the whole time. and oh No, but he was really down in dumps for a time, creatively, and he didn't want to get into shop, but he's like wondering. I relate. I feel that every winter. It's tough sometimes. you just You're just not feeling it.
00:11:01
Speaker
So Derek, what was your trajectory like pulling out of the the winter blues, so to speak? So the way I deal it, unfortunately for my wife, is complaining to her nonstop. She's a singer to this lady who isn't to anything. And, you know, it's truthfully, she knows when I come up those basement stairs that there's some tragedy going on down there.
00:11:24
Speaker
But this house wall was tough. I have a torn hamstring. And, you know, i don't want to say much about it because then you get a million people with advice and stuff like that. So going up and down the stairs, we had a family friend die suddenly. And it was just hot. It was just like, you know, it's hard to be on. I like to do like a lot of Instagram stories and stuff. And it's hard to.
00:11:47
Speaker
for me to act excited when you're not, you know. And I try to be honest, but you don't want to be too honest. And then it's, know, a lot of people are surprised. I have a full-time job. We get up at 4.15 in the morning. It's a long day.
00:12:00
Speaker
And it's just, it's hard to get going sometimes. And like Kimi says, my small shop, thank God I just moved all my welding stuff out. That's been a blessing. But you know, you get on there, there's shit over everything. And you know, it's i just got rid a big CNC I had, which was great to load up with Warcraft. So thank God I got a second one so I could CNC stuff on that one.
00:12:23
Speaker
But it's on it's high, you know. it's just You got family stuff, you know. The house suffers. My wife does a lot. And it's like that saying, like the cobbler, his daughter's sort of business. She worked with the old Carolinas, and I could get some shoes. but No, it's just, it's hard. It's just, it's non-stop. You know and she'll tell you, every night I come home from work, I'm at the counter, I'm on my computer.
00:12:45
Speaker
They think I'm on YouTube all the time. Sometimes I sneak on it, but it's just, you know, it's editing something, downloading something, calling Jimmy, hounding him about something. And if it's not doing that, it's in the shock. And I always look at the editing card. It's like the biggest, like, monkey on my back. And it's, um...
00:13:01
Speaker
It's hard for me to remember that's part of the process. I'm more like an executioner guy. Just tell me what to do and I can do it. But that's part of the whole thing too. So that's, I have a hard time getting behind that, you know, for me.
00:13:14
Speaker
So that, the way, I think the way Derek put that is the way I heard almost everyone describe, like the real inside view of what it's like to be
Balancing Creativity with Deadlines
00:13:24
Speaker
a maker. I know it's my life.
00:13:26
Speaker
some Sometimes like things are going sideways at home or you know you're not getting along or or you're not feeling well and you just don't feel inspired. Yeah, you so you have this deadline, you're supposed to be making this thing. And the internet makes it look so glamorous, right? These cut scenes to the videos, man, everything's hunky dory all the time.
00:13:44
Speaker
But the truth is all of us are like he described, I think, to some extent. And I'll give you another example. I think a lot of you know Keith Johnson, KJ Solidus, is one of my personal close personal friends.
00:13:55
Speaker
like He's an an amazing furniture maker and YouTube you know content creator, right? His videos are fabulous. But like lately, I'm totally airing his dirty laundry, little as you know.
00:14:09
Speaker
He's been struggling in a way because he's getting so good at making furniture and he wants to push himself further on every project that it's getting to the point that the projects are taking so long to satisfy himself and they're so detailed that he can't get the videos out you know in a quick way for sponsors. and you know There's a timeline to getting videos out, but yet he's only fulfilled what he's really pushing himself creatively and as a maker. So he's caught in this tension between like, God, I just don't want to mail it in I really want to go after that project, but yet it's at odds with getting projects out quickly. So I think that's another example of like, what do you do?
00:14:54
Speaker
You wanna be better as a maker, But you have a job at same time. How you navigate that attention. Part of the way he navigates it, like one of the solutions is to work with friends.
00:15:05
Speaker
So you'll you'll probably go, collaborates for me a lot. And that's because we both have so much more fun working together than always doing it alone, right? You're your shotgun alone. Here I am. Okay. and But to to like be able to call your friend every day and bitch about something that didn't work or talk about this creative process and It just makes it so much more fun and so much more rich with ideas. So I think that's another, you know, collaboration is a great way to handle, I think, the doldrums of, uh,
00:15:34
Speaker
You've driven some clothes, not exactly on that topic, but just sitting and thinking. There are times when I'm in between projects, or I you know i have to start something that I don't want to, and I haven't zeroed in on it yet. I don't know how to begin, or I don't know how to middle, I don't know how to end it.
00:15:49
Speaker
I'll start cleaning the shop. There's always time. My shop's always, these days, cleaned, right? Yeah, so I'll always clean the shop. That's always an opportunity for me to put things away, reorganize to some extent,
00:16:01
Speaker
rearrange and end the process of rearranging and cleaning I'll find that spray I found in the street walking in the middle of the night in a car spray. I'll be like, oh, you know what? Maybe I can make a whittling. I'll break off the last piece, and blacksmith it in it.
00:16:15
Speaker
The video will be about me making the knife and whittling a spoon. So I see art now. You know that I wouldn't have touched the spray. So that's for me is another good trigger is to start cleaning or just organize the art. I mean, what am doing? I'm organizing art. I'm moving all the garbage from here to over there.
00:16:33
Speaker
Putting it behind the tall weeds, cleaning the weeds that are where they should be. So that helps. So literally, my usual co-host on the show, which is Eric Curtis, he he's been on the show. we we We conceived of it together when we were here.
00:16:47
Speaker
He's on every show. He's he's out of the way today. He couldn't be here. But he likes to take a walk around Philadelphia. He just walks. I walk every night. He looks, looks around him, looks, you know, and he just sees things that just trigger ideas, which I think is a great.
00:17:01
Speaker
I, on the other hand, I don't necessarily find it when I'm walking, but I do like to go to museums and holy shit. When I leave that museum, I have about 10,000 new ideas.
00:17:11
Speaker
And I don't mean museums for woodworking. I mean, i am looking at other forms of art. It's the other forms of art that really stimulate a lot of how can I bring that that that idea back into a woodworking lexicon.
00:17:24
Speaker
So I love i mean the MFA we have in Boston. It's like world class. You leave that place, there is no shortage of inspiration. So I think there's ways to you know to conjure up ideas. And I'm going to point you you, that's the type of thing you need to do more often, is when you're out of ideas, call you, talk to you, I gotta do this, Dave, I don't want to, so I said, go look at for inspiration.
00:17:48
Speaker
Even if it's
Seeking Inspiration During Creative Blocks
00:17:49
Speaker
just a Google server, mean, in front of everybody. No, still no, I mean, and i the reason I pick on you is because I got to see you go from just a guy that hides in his basement making stuff to now the world sees what you're doing. Yeah, now you're a magnetic star and you went from, you know, making a side table once every few months to now you feel you need to produce yeah because everyone's looking and you you have to produce and sometimes you have no ideals. yeah
00:18:20
Speaker
And I think you have ideas, but you have this sort of crutch block. You're I have ideas, should do it. You know you do, you get seconded by it. said, I was a century on my phone, but I just. You double a look. Yeah, you're right. You look for that one that's gonna strike you and get you at the table versus the one you gotta to go, you gotta to go search for it.
00:18:42
Speaker
Thank you. Mic drop. Just here. No, it was a bit tough, though, because i have a very so a smaller YouTube presence, but sometimes I felt like I was, like, dumbing down my projects because the editing is so daunting to me. Like, editing's not my strong suit. I mean, I'm getting better.
00:18:57
Speaker
But sometimes going to my studio, if I don't have ah a job that I'm looking for for a client or whatever, I'm like, what am I supposed to do? Why would I make this? What's the point? But I think for me, sometimes like the act of playing and allowing myself to play, like I'm just going to break out this clay that I have for no reason, but other than the fact that I like making stuff.
00:19:17
Speaker
And then that kind of reminds me, oh, wait a minute. I do like doing this. Maybe I should do more of it. And so even if it's something really silly like making assignments, I don't know, for your Garvin, or whatever is, it kind of cues up that with my brain at least. like oh A, you're good at it, and B, you like doing it. like Just because you are at the suck portion of the last project, you just got to remind yourself again. And sometimes playing helps.
00:19:42
Speaker
I have a hard time. We've been married homes for 30 years. Our house is packed with more shit than we need. So it's like, I'm not going to build another coffee table. You know, we don't need one. So it's hard to find things I need.
00:19:56
Speaker
And then it's like, you know, then I got to find something to sell. But like this past week, I made a mirror for my daughter. Her birthday was yesterday. I haven't really shown much about it. And, um, It's this guy on Instagram, don't know how to say his name, so I'll butcher it, but um I think actually Keith Deason can be turned on to this guy. He makes stuff.
00:20:13
Speaker
He's somewhere in Europe, Eastern Europe somewhere, and he makes stuff out of trash. He makes the most amazing stuff, and he inspired me to make. He takes a lot of bicycle chain, and he'll take, doesn't even make mirrors out of round mirrors. take scraps of broken mirror if he finds, and he'll make them, and they're beautifully mixed picture frames. So we'll talk back and forth.
00:20:33
Speaker
And Dave Geinney, a friend of ours who passed away year ago, maybe. I don't know. can't think about it. But I got some bicycle chain from him, I thought, two years ago. But it was before my oldest daughter was in college. So it's about eight years ago.
00:20:47
Speaker
And I made a letter of D. And like literally two days later he got killed in motorcycle crash. And he was always like, just make something with this shit. Don't let it just go to waste, you know?
00:20:58
Speaker
And so I made this mirror and I'm like, I don't know you know, my wife, she can be my easiest critic or my worst critic, you know? Like sometimes she'll look at stuff and you're like, I don't get it. but She's like, oh no, that's really nice. And then at my daughter, ah love her, but she can be a pain in the ass, so I'm crazy.
00:21:15
Speaker
bri And she was just like, Dad, it's amazing. And not to bring it down, but I just feel like someday I'm going to be gone. And I want to make stuff my kids. They're like, oh, your grandfather made that. i know My dad made that.
00:21:29
Speaker
My son, he hasn't got too much yet, but I get to work on this stuff. And I'm like, it's just nice. They're talking a little bit different and not necessarily for us that someday they'll get to enjoy. So.
00:21:41
Speaker
Derek, you don't have to worry about taking this podcast down. We did an episode on death and legacy, which opened with, so you all know you're gonna die, right? So what do you wanna make before you get there?
00:21:53
Speaker
Don't worry about taking it down. we we There's no ground we don't cover. Speaking of which, let's pin in topics now to our second of the three greatest hits that we're gonna cover today.
Understanding Imposter Syndrome
00:22:06
Speaker
Imposter syndrome. Oh, you're lightened prone. Perfect. Well, our third co-host Mary always, she's very analytical and she always seems to like to define things. Like, what do you mean by imposter syndrome, Paul? What do mean? Can you define imposter syndrome?
00:22:23
Speaker
So, ah The definition as far as the um Oxford English Dictionary is the persistent inability to believe that someone's success is deserved or has been achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills.
00:22:38
Speaker
I'll repeat. Imposter syndrome, the persistent inability to believe that someone's success is deserved or has been achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills.
00:22:51
Speaker
So the first question I had, thinking about imposter syndrome as a larger topic, is what percent of the population identifies with that? And I have a percent.
00:23:03
Speaker
And I usually have my co-host guess who the percent is. So I'll have them guess first, and then you're gonna raise your hands and we'll compare their sense that they're guessing of the population who's dealt with imposter syndrome to the approximate percent of hand raises, and that'll tell you what the research shows. So, Jimmy? 90%. Okay.
00:23:20
Speaker
Der? 70. I assume you're 70. 70. Raise your hands. How many have you of you have felt in a moment of that feeling of imposter syndrome? i'm not sure. Oh, I've got to do this.
00:23:34
Speaker
Oh, it's pretty close to 80%. Yeah, yeah, 70, 80, 90%. What do I want? Nothing. You're not in an imposter. Congratulations. of The research shows it's about up to 80%.
00:23:51
Speaker
Do you think it falls down gently?
00:23:56
Speaker
i would say. present
00:24:01
Speaker
face Yeah, maybe a little. Okay, which way? Justine? Well, I was gonna women are second come out at least two of them.
00:24:14
Speaker
I don't know, maker the makerspace feels very male-topic. Okay. Okay. She's 100% right. Now, the research is a little mixed. There is men and women. in Some studies, it depending on which population you look at, say is roughly equal, but a more recent study shows it's more women than men. Not a lot more. It's so plenty of men. saw a lot of There are a lot of hands up here that were not women.
00:24:38
Speaker
But yeah, typically women more than men. And my question about that, is it because women are more forthcoming about their feelings? So maybe the men being interviewed have felt it and they don't want to admit it. So I don't know. It could be a bias in the sampling. You never know because men aren't quite as forthcoming about their feelings.
00:24:55
Speaker
But yes, as far as we know, it's it's women especially in when a woman is in a male-dominated field. Exactly what you said. That is exactly what the research literature shows. Because, you know, there's a lot of inertia as as a woman in male-dominated field, right? And not all that inertia is good. I mean, this crap is especially welcoming and warm. know, I feel like this is a highly select self-population, which I'm, you know proud to be here.
00:25:20
Speaker
But in general, I think it's tough to be in a dominated field. So I'd like us to take a turn Remember a time when you felt that feeling, when you felt ah just that it doesn't have to be overwhelming. It could have just been a moment and, you know, explain what that felt
External Validation and Imposter Syndrome
00:25:37
Speaker
like. So maybe Justine, we'll start you.
00:25:40
Speaker
Well, first of all, I just want to say that the maker community is the most supportive group of people I have ever come in contact with. That's where I feel very fortunate to be part of it. oh But there have been times when I've been like aggressively explained to what a crack jig is on the site and I'm like, and you know. Intimate boppa bowls.
00:25:59
Speaker
Oh, do you?
00:26:04
Speaker
oh yes And so sometimes when you have that voice in the back of your head that's already telling you, like, they don't know how to do that, which I think we all experience, and then having somebody else come in and step in and say, you know how to use that drill is like, oh, maybe I don't, you know, even though I know I do.
00:26:20
Speaker
And so that's something that I definitely experience a little. And like I said, I think everybody does, but sometimes when you get that outside validation to something that's already in your head, and I think that that can happen whether you're a woman or or a man working on a site, but, you know, maybe that's of where it comes from.
00:26:38
Speaker
Derek? Well, what was the Impostors, I tell you, it's something all the time. It's just, you know, once, like Jimmy said, i was just the guy making stuff in my basement. I've always made stuff.
00:26:53
Speaker
Um... A lot of it just to get away mentally and just like my own little quiet space. And then when the show come out, like people just, you know, thought like, like, like you're this amazing person. I'm just like, no, I'm just the guy sticking my face.
00:27:09
Speaker
It was in the right place at the right time. I'm nobody different, you know? And, uh, It's just like, i just remember one time, me and Jimmy were talking bullshit, taxes, money, and he's like, oh, I just put on my tax return, I'm an artist.
00:27:23
Speaker
And I was like, whoa. Like that, I mean? And I would just, like, I think I've called myself an artist once, and maybe it's just for myself, but it just I've never felt that way.
00:27:36
Speaker
I just felt like a guy that's interested in stuff and likes to make stuff and create stuff, and once in while I get it right. But I just, I don't know. I'm not an artist. Derek, I'm also really struggling with calling myself an artist too, and I know how.
00:27:52
Speaker
But I'm like, I, for a long time, you know, like I went to art school, I did the thing, and I was like, well, no, no, no, I'm not an artist, I'm just late building this thing. Yeah. But then when, I think especially when around people who are like-minded and doing the things that I'm doing, like, oh, no, I can meet with you guys.
00:28:09
Speaker
Maybe I am him an artist. Now I'll kind of kick that with Foster's syndrome. I would say you both artists. To be thank you. I'm for me.
00:28:19
Speaker
You know, on my podcast, Bob and Dave, I once said, know, it's it's okay to call yourself an artist. And that was the one time I think I got the most heartfelt messages from the audience.
00:28:32
Speaker
Where said, it's okay to call yourself an artist. It's not, it's not. You some people wrote a bit of failure. they're expected to be a finance something door a banker or an insurance salesman, but what they really want to be is an artist.
00:28:49
Speaker
And it's always just pushed down on the back. And like I said, I got several messages of people saying, they're really at home, that you it's okay to be honest. Just simply to just say, it's okay be honest.
00:29:03
Speaker
As far as imposter syndrome comes with me, there are moments in time. I obviously have doing this so long, but I still do experience it when I try something for the first time. And then when you first sent me the message the other day, i looked at it, was like, the first time I played with the clay.
00:29:16
Speaker
And still, when I play with clay and pottery, you know, it's always kind of a joke. My brother John always says, what is this, crap time at the rehab? I'm like... um
00:29:27
Speaker
Come here, old man, let's start and take your pills. I'm going to crash at the rehab. But playing with the clay is such an intensely scientific, you're a scientist, you know the chemistry of the glaze and the clay itself and the heat and the length and the but bringing the temperature down. there's so much to it.
00:29:49
Speaker
And I'm in there like, clay. And they, read the big so play and the there's it's such ah It's such a primitive, it is like one of the first artisan things, I assume, that, cave paintings and clay, and chipping rock or lip-ball-head, dapping when you make an arrowhead.
00:30:12
Speaker
Making things out of clay, to me, I remember I made a soap kitchen with, oh, wow, that was one of the first videos that I made with clay. And it' I still have it, it's my soap dish. It's the one that's always got the maris soap in it. The one that makes it, you know?
00:30:28
Speaker
So anyway, so I feel like an imposter when I play with clay, which I every year, I'm like, this is the year I'm gonna delve into clay and learn more scientific stuff about it. And anytime I'm with somebody that I know is an advanced partner, always like, how long do you, do you, which your first five, andnna how long do you let it try? Like I'm always asking these questions to me that blocks.
00:30:48
Speaker
But there's it's like that with other stuff too. You know, when hang out with Dave, Dave DTV, Fab Wade, knows so much about so many things and when I'm in his vicinity I'm asking him dumb questions like, how do I take the hull off of a Chevy truck, which I mentioned about the other day. will they a dogca hell on that pitch yeah And then he like sends me pages out of the manual. and Of course I could do that, but I don't think like...
00:31:11
Speaker
But no, well, take well the sockets on the gas tank for the catalog. And I watched how we get it. you know So lot of times I swallow my pride when it's foster syndrome and look at somebody that's better at it than me.
00:31:24
Speaker
you know You always want me in the room with smarter people.
Learning from Others to Overcome Imposter Syndrome
00:31:27
Speaker
And that's how we all learn. you know It's an old thing. you dont You don't want to be the smartest person in a room, which we've all heard a hundred times. Have you ever find yet you've ever been in a room where you're smartest person? You're like, hell out Ow.
00:31:41
Speaker
That's a great answer for us to hear, I think, because Jimmy, being the maker he is thank for the length of time, diversity of odd drinks, if he feels that way, well, that normalizes it. and essence like If he feels like an imposter occasionally, who wouldn't?
00:32:01
Speaker
Another time, i had like when Stuff Make here started putting out videos, i was like, I should just throw my camera in the toilet. guys know who that is? hes This kid having it in his scientific brain.
00:32:13
Speaker
Like, I'm gonna do like a never-miss cool kid. And then he's like talks about it, because it's like some nerd who's been sitting It's the most amazing thing you've ever seen. It goes through the trials and tribulations.
00:32:25
Speaker
So for me, the the most recent moment, I felt that imposter syndrome sneak in. I was teaching a class at Pratt Institute out in in Seattle, and I was the master in residence you know for this class, which the the word master, you like kind of icks me out.
00:32:45
Speaker
But yeah, so I came to this class and i decided to do something unusual. It wasn't going to be like, come in we're going to build this box. I said, come in with any idea you want for a box and we'll build it.
00:33:01
Speaker
So I had no idea what they were bringing me. I had no clue what these ideas would would come at. I didn't know if we had enough time. I didn't know if I'd have the expertise.
00:33:11
Speaker
I had no idea what they were going to ask me to build. And they show up and there we are. And then, you know, we start talking through the ideas and like, just while we're talking through, I almost zoomed out like a drone on my own body, like looking down on the situation from the sky thinking like, what if I, what if I can't come up with a good way to make the thing that they just paid a lot of money for, for this entire week? Like, what if I can't pull it off?
00:33:39
Speaker
And that like, it hit me in that moment, because I realized i wasn't speaking to them. They were telling me, oh and then I'm on this, and then I would like to do this, and I was kind of like, I wasn't listening. You're gonna have to repeat that. Like I totally zoomed up. But I realized like, okay, calm down.
00:33:54
Speaker
You don't have to know everything. we'll take you know You'll get your best crack at it and what happens will be what happens. And as long as they learn a lot, that'll be it. And long story short, the class were great. The boxes they wanted to make were almost all finished. One was about 70%, but at least we got 70% of the way there. are And it just taught me, like, don't panic in those moments.
00:34:16
Speaker
But you never ever really feel fully prepared. Like I had been woodworking almost 20 years at that time. I'd made hundreds of boxes. And like what the hell is that fog doing in my head?
00:34:27
Speaker
After all those experiences, why am I thinking like that? You know, it's like, but it's just how you feel. They're like, oh no, no fall you know you're a master. And I'm like, all I know is the last project worked out okay.
00:34:40
Speaker
I don't know about the next one. I'll give it my best, but there's no guarantees. Yeah, that's relatable as a teacher. I taught the School of Visual Arts for 23, 24 years.
00:34:51
Speaker
And I totally get that, like, they're all here looking at me. Day one of class, they're like, okay, teach us. You know, the ones that aren't looking at their phone, like,
00:35:03
Speaker
yeah It's a storm. Yeah. So if you feel like speaking in, i think the message is, ah well, we all feel that way sometimes. And probably a lot more than you realize, or a lot more than most of us care to have been. But now
Vulnerability in Creative Conversations
00:35:17
Speaker
this is a safe space, so I think we're all going to admit later when we have beers, or when you talk at the get together, or Glenn. So when was the last time you felt like an imposter? I want you to say that to someone tonight.
00:35:26
Speaker
By the way, this part's with the skull on it. Paul made it. So.
00:35:34
Speaker
Many many of you might not know. That's the type of quality work that Paul produces. He makes amazing stuff. I've been a fan of Paul's for a long time, and it's funny.
00:35:47
Speaker
I said it to him one more time, he gets so excited. If you look through his Instagram from way, way back, the brush of it, He masked his like the smallest little details and he'll put it in a project. Then he builds that onto another project and they're all like building blocks.
00:36:03
Speaker
And I was like, this guy, you were chow, you look pretty close to each other from Instagram for a long time. And he's like, oh yeah, our PhD. And I was like, you know, we're working. I was like so shocked, like she was so talented, but he was like drinking that. This is so hard to listen to.
00:36:23
Speaker
Yes, he's just been a great friend of Al in kind of true inspiration. And the reason I asked Paul on stage today, I invited you to do this with Curtis, but he's obviously not here. But because i listened to a few of the rap episodes and the few conversations we had in person, you're very deep.
00:36:38
Speaker
You're very, you're like, look past the surface. And that probably has a lot to do with your research work and obviously the quality work. So thanks for having me. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you.
00:36:52
Speaker
All right, so let's give it to our third topic, which I think is related imposter syndrome, which perfectionism.
Perfectionism in Creative Work
00:37:03
Speaker
I think for people who have perfectionist tendencies, it tends to co-present with imposter syndrome, right? Makes sense. If you think everything needs to be literally perfect, how can you ever not feel like getting imposter? Because none of us reach perfection, right? So I think this is a related, a separate issue.
00:37:24
Speaker
And i would like to talk a bit about perfectionism. I have another definition.
00:37:33
Speaker
of perfectionism defined as setting excessively high standards of self-expression accompanied by excessively critical self evaluation.
00:37:46
Speaker
So yeah. All right. Let's do the raise of hand now. Now that we're all in the trust and we're in the safe circle, let's raise hand. How many people feel like you have dealt with or have perfectionism tendencies?
00:38:01
Speaker
Okay, next question. I think perfectionism can cut two ways. I think in one way, it holds us back. We procrastinate on starting because it's not going to be good enough. The plan's not fleshed out enough. I haven't prepared enough.
00:38:18
Speaker
Right? Or... It could cut the other way. It actually elevates my work to a higher standard than if I wasn't that way. It's a positive view. It's not always negative. think the gut response to perfectionism is to say it's a negative thing.
00:38:35
Speaker
But it doesn't always have to be. It does raise the bar personally within yourself. And there's this tension between it dis like disrupting your life or kind pushing you forward.
00:38:50
Speaker
And so I think that's a very interesting tension. And we I think we probably oscillate to some degree between like it's a helpful trait, oh, I went a little too far. And it it probably changes during the course of your life.
00:39:03
Speaker
So I would say, you know, I like to hear from everyone Do you think you are a perfectionist? And in what way? And has it been positive or negative for you?
00:39:17
Speaker
And Derek, why don't you start this time? It's been both. So as much as complain to my wife, boy, Jimmy gets it on the other end. you know Numerous pitches, and you know I'll make something. and i was doing a lot of signs, and I'll bring it up. And sometimes I'll try to trick my wife. I won't show her. And I'll be like, what do you think of this? And she's like, oh, it's great.
00:39:39
Speaker
What's that little dot? um ah She's seen it, you know. I got to do it over. And I joke and say I charge three times the amount because I usually make them about one But Jimmy's always like, I don't give a shit. Nobody's going to see it. Only you see it. But it will drive me crazy.
00:39:58
Speaker
And sometimes it pays off. I did a sign for guy sometimes I'll start a second one before I'm even done because I know it's going to go sell. And so i had two signs this guy made and luckily, like three months later, he called me and said, hey, you make me a second one?
00:40:14
Speaker
I said, absolutely. And it was already done. so But it is, it's just, you know, somebody had said it was perfect, it wouldn't look handmade. And I try to remember that sometimes, and I try to remember sometimes the things i see nobody else will see, but it's so difficult because for me, like a little speck of something looks like a cradle, and it drives me crazy. So you try and serve crazy. you force yourself to redo it? Yeah.
00:40:42
Speaker
Now, so have find those money. I've lost money on a lot of projects. I made beautiful old oak vinyl house table for a boy. And I think it cost me about $400 or $500 make it for her.
00:40:53
Speaker
But in the end, it was going to be perfect, and it was going to be done the way she wanted it done. And it killed me to do it, but... So, Derek, is is the perfectionism you experience a negative or a negative positive, would you say? think both.
00:41:08
Speaker
I think sometimes it's positive because it makes me want to do better than... Like, you know, see a lot of stuff people do, and I say, that looks like shit. I'd be embarrassed to put my name on that. LAUGHTER Seriously, I think a lot of people rush you through stuff just to make a buck and you know if for me It's like I would just be embarrassed to have my name associated with it But on the other hand, I think a lot of times I really have in my shop things I've ruined or didn't but I try to stick them all over my shop so I remember but oh yeah, I don't want to screw that up I remember the screwing this up, you know, and I try to learn for it, you know
00:41:43
Speaker
yeah The painting thing was just, it's hard. I don't have a spray booth. I'm painting outside, sometimes in my basement. Then epoxy, there's dust foam in the ceiling. and People walk by. It's not easy, but it's ah yeah I just like to stuff to look nice.
00:41:59
Speaker
you know The fighting's gonna be on it. Jimmy, please send. my here I don't care. no no i I'm not quite as a perfectionist. It all depends. I've obviously been commissioned many, many times in my life to make things directly for, not to name drop, but... Who's the guy from the hotel? It's not name dropping if you don't remember their day.
00:42:25
Speaker
We always dates young girls. He was in... Leonardo DiCaprio. Leonardo DiCaprio. I actually... Leonardo DiCaprio is a perfect. That's true story. I remember there was,
00:42:37
Speaker
It was in the summer of 2009 and the interior designer I was working for got to do one of the sample apartments, all the model apartments. And and think one of the guys from Queer Eye for the Street, guy the interior guy, did the apartment right next to ours.
00:42:52
Speaker
So he was doing his, Tom Felicia was doing his apartment and me and Amanda and a few people were doing Amanda's apartment. And Leo came in and he picked Amanda's apartment. He like, I like this, let's just do my apartment just like that.
00:43:04
Speaker
And now it's up to me to fabricate a lot of the stuff. and And the good thing is, Amanda Kornikin, she's like, look, don't overcharge him because he's a celebrity.
00:43:15
Speaker
She's like, I'm pushing him on certain things, and he really doesn't care. She's like, if we push him too hard, he'll just go to Ikea. He's not that of type. And I said, OK, so we came up with media pricing for everything.
00:43:25
Speaker
But there he is. I got to make sure everything's right. i' got to make sure everything's perfect. I got to use quality materials. And in the end, he liked everything. I mean, I didn't get any the lengths that we got called back several times that year to do other things around the house.
00:43:38
Speaker
But there are times when I'm working on stuff for TV. How many times did I tell you on the show? Don't worry about it. I'm always going see it. And, you know, just think it was as well as anybody. Don't be going to see it. Jimmy, I've heard you say that to me before, right? we've You've mentioned this before. Like, it's it's good enough for film or good enough for a photo. Like, how do you – I have trouble with that. How do you secure that with your own, like – your own compass of like, I always want to give my best. Like how do you, how do you find it grieving with yourself?
00:44:08
Speaker
It's a good question. Where for instance, like I just did the the big Cadillac build, the five series on the Cadillac build, which I'm not done with, but for all intents and purposes, I built a car, but it needs windows and seat covers. Those upcoming videos.
00:44:20
Speaker
But when I was doing my mat, I knew was going to be a spectacle. I knew it was going to be scrutinized, but I'm hiding behind, it's a rap pod. which means it doesn't mean expect perfection, but it expects quirkiness.
00:44:32
Speaker
And so when I did all my woodwork, there were certain things that i had to make sure, like the curve of the body had to look sexy from every angle. So I had to do and make sure that there were certain curves that matched the well with what would have been the original color, which I don't know what it looks like other than just photographs. I never experienced a little thing.
00:44:52
Speaker
in person, but I projected that curve off of those two doors that existed and I wanted to make sure that if this car was a real car or if typically a real manufactured wooden car, this would have to project off that curve and land in the back in the right spot.
00:45:07
Speaker
So I was very particular about the curves on a car. When it got to being how I assembled it, I was kind of shooting in the dark. i was just like, this looks good, that looks good. But at the end of the day, i knew I could always go back and fix stuff. And so that's a lot of kinds how I square things. So it's like it's almost like an open book. I can go back if I wanted it. Oh, so bad.
00:45:28
Speaker
But when it's a client job, obviously I can't go back be like, hey, remember built that cabinet, I think I want to change the hinges. Get the hell out of here. But when it's something that's in my own it's in my old term, in my own environment, I can always go back and change it or fix it or or adjust it or do a video on revisiting, which I don't do that much. I mean, I might
Viewing Projects as Ongoing Works
00:45:47
Speaker
do it for Patreons or whatever.
00:45:48
Speaker
But when it comes to...
00:45:54
Speaker
perfection with fonts and porch bowls and cars and stuff, I like to just do the whole thing, step back and then look what means to look what's grabbing my eye and be like, that's where I messed up. I really have to revisit that section.
00:46:08
Speaker
or Compromise, sucker. There's no way I can go back like on the porch calls. You have to make a compromise you're okay with. So you bring up two important points, I think, from a zooming out point of view, which is revise and iterate. like Step back, revise, iterate. It doesn't have to be perfect the first to go around. I always say, like if if you're feeling tight it about yourself on this project, do yourself a favor.
00:46:35
Speaker
Call it version one. Yes, I always say, my students should show me a wayout book. They would show me a book, a book by one. Let's go make it again. They're like, let's go in the mic. Do you want to make things for a living?
00:46:47
Speaker
Or do you want to just go to life saying that made one of them? And while you make the one, all the new ideas how could make it better. I know all y'all do this. They come. They go. They come while you're working, right? Opportunity, like inspiration comes, but your hands have to be working usually.
00:47:03
Speaker
So just park that for V2. Don't make V1 so precious you never finish it. And that's helped me a lot. And also, um think of it think of that project like a diary entry.
00:47:15
Speaker
That is who you are now. That is this year's version of you. like but That's not next year's version of you. That was the diary entry for 2025. Complete it, love it, live with it.
00:47:27
Speaker
And then if you are so inclined, Revisit it next year or the year after and you'll see you could step back and say wow I've come a long way and it's it's a learning moment with you and yourself It's like reputation, you know confidence is sort of like tied to your own reputation with yourself And you need these moments to kind of look back and say wow, that's how i started no judgment I'm not gonna judge myself. That's who I was then.
00:47:51
Speaker
That's the maker I was then and here's where I'm Alice the awesome look at the growth, right? It's like it's a great way to It's a great tool to help yourself finish projects and not be tied down.
00:48:02
Speaker
With perfectionists, it's not gonna be good enough. i had to You don't finish it, right? how many I think we don't finish projects if we get hung up like that. Well, with the leather, there's an opportunity where I'll be making some in leather for two hours and then all of a sudden one slip of the tool, I'm like, oh, that's going to my sister for free. um But didn't finish it as well.
00:48:22
Speaker
And then like, oh, that's a nice dollar for a friend that just pops in the shop. Yeah. The workmanship of risk, as they say. hey That's just the way it is. But I think I go, you know, I always say you go to school now. when I went to college, I took college education on this particular project.
00:48:37
Speaker
But something I want to bring up, which I say a lot, is the the thing we all do as artists, we see the vision of the object we're making. if It's a creation that nobody's ever seen before, something of our own design.
00:48:49
Speaker
And we think this has to go like this. And then we struggle with, A mistake, now we have to compromise our mistake, or we have to compromise a decision or access to a material, and now we're making a compromise we think everybody knows.
00:49:04
Speaker
It's the first thing you're look at this this music stand. I mean, I really wanted to do this. I ran out of the screws. and But this is OK. If I didn't say that, you would this is a beautiful music stand. That brings up a great point. When you when you show people the things you make, do not start with apologies or pointing out the imperfections.
00:49:24
Speaker
Please don't do that. We all do it. I pun it I'm guilty. But no those compromises that nobody knows are for you, but the minute you reveal a project to a client or somebody, you I really i didn't really want these, but that that's all I could get. you know Amazon, deliver next week. You know, you want it this week. and So we would just go, the door opens. It's great. Honestly, it ruins the moment for the recipient. really does. Because in their eyes, it's so magical. This moment, they're seeing it for the first time, was said.
00:49:53
Speaker
and it's so magical they're taking it in right they're drinking in this object it's beautiful and to them it's amazing and you're gonna root you're gonna like chop that bone in half or like yeah i didn't have the right hand would have been a lot nicer and suddenly like all that good juju they were feeling is like totally out the window like don't do that all right uh justine are you perfectionist ah Yeah, and I think I need like like a tattoo on my forehead that says, done, it's better than perfect.
00:50:22
Speaker
yeah i i I had this timestamp for a podcast saved on my desktop for from a long time ago. It was the one from my favorite partner talking, and they were talking about, well, what is I'm a perfectionist? And then the other one was like, I'm not.
00:50:36
Speaker
And the one was a perfectionist is like, well, I shoot for A+. plus And the other one was like, I shoot for B- minus and know that the A- plus people will never turn that paper And then my B- becomes an A+.
00:50:48
Speaker
And I remember being like, Okay, so instead of sitting on an idea for a year and a half, which I have been doing for many ideas, just doing it and putting it out there, even if it's B plus work, may become a little bit scaled in the in the grading system if I do it, because the A plus people aren't gonna put theirs out in the first place.
00:51:08
Speaker
um And so I definitely had trouble with that on the front end of perfectionism in like, in the getting started place of like, well, I don't have the money, don't have the time, don't have... whatever.
00:51:20
Speaker
ah But then if I do get a project started on the end, sometimes perfectionism can pay off a little bit because if I do get my project done, even though it's not exactly what I thought it was in the sketch phase, I can usually make it look pretty good just because perfectionism, lens itself,
00:51:36
Speaker
sometimes projects like that? So you bring up an interesting point, which is the beginning of the project, the middle of the project, and the end of the project, right? Perfectionism cuts differently at those three stages. At the beginning of the project, well, you just grasp that you don't start.
00:51:50
Speaker
You feel like, yeah, it's not going to be good enough. The IT is not good enough. I didn't plan enough. Or like you were saying, like just, you know, you were just sort of legit, just get going, right? So perfectionism can stall us. And I want you three to react to like E3. Let me just put the framework in and you react.
00:52:05
Speaker
So the beginning of the project, it tends to stall us out. Then there's perfectionism during the project. Every step you go, it's good. Let's say your project is 100 steps big, right? or And you're on step 10 or step 12 and things go sideways together.
00:52:24
Speaker
Fuck. now it's ruined i don't even want it i'm just you set a desire right how do you how do you not let like you're already 10 50 steps in and it starts to get precious you start to get scared because you don't want to ruin it like you've done so good for so long how'd you get so far you don't want to screw them now right and then you get precious you get scared to like take a risk And so perfectionism is like there with you during the whole middle of project. It's helping you in some regards, but it's also making you feel nervous, scared.
00:52:57
Speaker
And then there's perfectionism on the end of the project. Is it a V plus or is it an A plus? Is that to influence the price i sell it for?
00:53:07
Speaker
Is that gonna influence my sales and marketing of it? How I view the pictures, how I take the pictures, how I talk about it? Because I know I don't really like it or it's got these problems. So I feel like it can cut us like at every step of the project. And you can see what the what the outcomes are, especially the end of pricing. That's a tough one.
00:53:28
Speaker
you know Our favorite topic as a group is like how do you price your work? All us like, ugh. The minute you ask them how do you price your work, they're like, ugh. Like no one wants to answer it because they don't really. you can have it for free.
00:53:43
Speaker
Yeah. So there's this framework. Like it can come in at any point. Any thoughts from you three about like when it comes into play for you in the process? I like that. Yeah.
00:53:55
Speaker
Once in while when you're making a project and suddenly the project intimidates you because you're like, wow, well I can't believe it did that. And that is true, there's a responsibility to make sure you don't screw it up then. Because you've Instagrammed it, you've showed it around, and then you could blow it up by accident or it'll explode on the way or whatever it is.
00:54:14
Speaker
I always gotta remind myself, I tell my students this, you are the god in the world of this object. If you think of like in a little encompassing little universe, this object didn't exist until you as the god of this object created it. So you keep destroying it and you can make it again. That's awesome. So I think of that. What a great way to think about a lot. So that's how keep them intimidating myself. Every once in 500 years I've worked with someone really gets intimidated by.
00:54:41
Speaker
That's fantastic. Anything else? Yeah, that's really good. I know. and How do you top it out? No, I actually was just going through that with this go-kart bill.
00:54:53
Speaker
I started this thing, and I started with the go-kart, and it was just getting to be a lot, and once again, over the day, Dougherty, he made everything all better. But then I have a great snack.
00:55:07
Speaker
Gareth's bad about his days out. Yeah, exactly. He does spot points too. But anyway, no, then it was like, okay, so I got the go-kart going. Then I went down to Baltimore and I was building the boot. It was all 3D printed.
00:55:20
Speaker
And like the big joke was it was really easy when Jimmy was killing himself in Jackman. And it was so much work. And I was just like, I thought there going to like a one, two day process out there. four or five days I think, then it was like now it's gonna be painted so then it's back painting it now it's gonna be attached to the go-kart now it's all gonna work together it was just it was so overwhelming every step of the way it came out great I called but it just was like each step was just exhausting and it just he was like am I gonna get this done my god and I literally got it done in the day of up at Galplace we finished it up
00:55:54
Speaker
and It was a lot. you know it just fit The details are the most yeah daunting part of any project. The details. yeah You make beautiful doors, but then you ruin everything and put the hinges on. Not you, me. Oh, me. I'm on two. Getting the hinge aligned. I don't even want to make a box or the door. well you know as I know i eventually I have to put an angel on. One of my friends liked to say, it's just wood.
00:56:17
Speaker
He'd always say, it's just wood. And I just repeat that to myself when it's feeling particularly precious and it's just what I can always make it again. It was funny building this. It's like I get the go card and it was really swish. And Davis, he's so talented. i mean did keep talking about but He's like, why don't we just cut out the seat pan and we'll make a new one. I'm like, I got to get this to New York tomorrow. Like he's cutting out seat pans and then he's extending the front end. And then he it just, it was one thing after another. But if it wasn't for him, it wouldn't got done.
00:56:48
Speaker
But it just does. Yeah, it's just every step of the way just doubting it. Dick, get up. Yeah, there it goes.
00:56:58
Speaker
You too. All right. yeah Well, that that was our greatest hits of working is bullshit. some Those questions come from three of our episodes. There's about 44 episodes. Some of them are really vulnerable and emotional. Justin's peering at you from the front row. Just add to a back-to-back episode of what it's like to be a storyteller and the importance of story, why that makes objects special and you know people in our lives special.
00:57:24
Speaker
So there's a whole ah log of about 44 episodes pretty heavy topics because that's what we like to talk about. So you can always feel free to check it out. And I want to thank Jimmy and Larry and Justine for being so colorful. Thank
00:57:43
Speaker
Thank you. and tonight tonight tonight yes we did do something better yall think back or when you're in your shop you'll feedback to to this this chat that you're not alone we all feel that way and we should probably talk by thanks with