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Episode 34 -Barstool Confessions #1 : Surprise Questions w/ Paul & Erik
1.3k Plays2 days ago
This podcast began organically, when Paul & Erik noticed that each time they were together, they would pull up a bar stool, have a beer, and talk about DESIGN, LIFE, PHILOSOPHY, and the emotional nature of CREATIVITY, so why not record the conversations that were ALREADY HAPPENING?! We figured we may or may not find answers, but at least we're asking the right questions, being honest with ourselves, and sharing that discussion with the community we care so much about.
This episode gets back to those roots where Paul & Erik have a vulnerable and candid discussion on two SUPRISE QUESTIONS (each of us came up with 1 question and DID NOT tell the other person prior to the show) to answer in the moment, with no prep. Even though it was recorded as a podcast episode, it felt like the old days where the two of us were sitting together, enjoying a beer, and searching for meaning in our lives together.
To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon: http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Woodworking is Bullshit'
00:00:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, you're in for a treat tonight, folks.
00:00:19
E Money Millionaire
What,
00:00:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This is Woodworking is Bullshit, a podcast about creativity, art, design, philosophy, everything mental that relates to making and art.
00:00:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm your host, Paul Jasper, scientist by day, fine woodworker by night. And we have Eric Curtis, my co-host, in the chair, fine furniture maker, content creator,
00:00:46
E Money Millionaire
what, what, what?
00:00:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This is a first for us.
Origin of the Podcast: Bar Conversations
00:00:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And that's why I said, oh boy, it's going to get spicy tonight. Eric and were talking the other day and Eric said, what if we just roll the two of us? Let's just like throw it back.
00:01:03
E Money Millionaire
Well, so here's the thing. It is it is a first for the podcast, but this is also where the podcast was birthed out of.
00:01:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's true.
00:01:12
E Money Millionaire
we We started this podcast because Paul and I have a long tradition of any time that we are in person hanging out with one another. We go to the bar, we drink too many heavy IPAs, and we talk about life.
00:01:27
E Money Millionaire
And one of the things that is most charming about Paul is ah his complete... disregard for social norms.
00:01:40
E Money Millionaire
and
00:01:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know what you're referring to.
00:01:41
E Money Millionaire
and And so he will meet a person for the first time and just be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, cool, cool. So like, what's your childhood trauma? You know, like, we'll just, we'll just dive into it.
00:01:53
E Money Millionaire
And so
00:01:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, how do how do you really feel about that?
00:01:55
E Money Millionaire
ah Right, right, right, right, right.
00:01:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, deeply.
00:01:57
E Money Millionaire
And so that's that's where this podcast
Structured but Intimate Dialogues
00:02:00
E Money Millionaire
came from. And so we thought it would be an interesting exploration to, you know, not have drunk conversation at the bar.
00:02:09
E Money Millionaire
I think that there will be more context and structure around it, I hope.
00:02:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:02:14
E Money Millionaire
But also to give a nod to
Design vs. Technical Focus in Woodworking
00:02:18
E Money Millionaire
that because it was that's that's where it was born out of.
00:02:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This is how it started.
00:02:21
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:02:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah do you Do you remember the first time I pitched the podcast to you? I pitched it to you, as I recall.
00:02:26
E Money Millionaire
I don't, I don't, I don't know. Do you?
00:02:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I do, yeah. I don't remember if we were on the phone or if we were in person. That's the part i can't remember, but... I remember saying, we were talking about design and inspiration. Again, one of the many times we've talked about it.
00:02:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I kept saying, you know, Eric, there's just a lack of this content in the woodworking space. Nobody talks about design. Nobody wants to think about it. Nobody wants to talk about all these mental things that you and I constantly hash out with o ourselves.
00:02:53
E Money Millionaire
yeah. yeah
00:02:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Why is no one talking about this? Like, how, ah why is it always fucking bro talk jigs? Oh, how many teeth per inch is your saw?
00:03:04
E Money Millionaire
because that's ah Because that's a broader market than the design market.
00:03:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like,
00:03:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Now, and it also requires vulnerability on the part of the people talking about it, I think.
00:03:11
E Money Millionaire
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And that's not comfortable for everyone. That's fine. That's fine. I get that.
00:03:16
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:03:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But I feel like secretly, in our secret lives, in our brain, in our heads, when we're alone, we're thinking about all the things we we talk about.
00:03:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Is it okay that I do that? Is that copying? Am I feeling imposter syndrome? and You know, perfectionism, it holding me back?
00:03:35
E Money Millionaire
well Well, I agree with you for the most part, but I also want to be mindful of the fact that you and I are very ah like-minded in a lot of ways. And there are people out there who...
00:03:47
E Money Millionaire
who and this So I don't want to make this like a moral or ethical hierarchy of once you get into talking about design...
00:03:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:03:56
E Money Millionaire
you are revealing the truth about what you think about. There are some people who just don't give a fuck and only care. Like the thing that brings them
Craft Mastery and Design Engagement
00:04:05
E Money Millionaire
joy is thinking about how to make the thing, how to make it faster, how to make it better.
00:04:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's making the the yeah that's true.
00:04:09
E Money Millionaire
And they don't give a fuck what it looks like.
00:04:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You know, it that that's true.
00:04:10
E Money Millionaire
And there's, there's real value in that.
00:04:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's true. I felt that way for about 10 years.
00:04:15
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's true.
00:04:17
E Money Millionaire
I mean, you can't learn both of the things at the same time.
00:04:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's true.
00:04:19
E Money Millionaire
And again, that even what I just said implies like once you learn the craft, then you learn design, right?
00:04:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, like it's better. yeah like it's right.
00:04:26
E Money Millionaire
It's a, it's a progression.
00:04:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No.
00:04:27
E Money Millionaire
It's an evolution and it's not necessarily. So I do, I do want to point out that if you do not give a fuck about design and, and emotional vulnerability, that's okay as well.
00:04:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:42
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:04:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, hopefully if you're listening to it, I guess with our listeners, Eric, we must have curated it the the listener base that they do care about it because we, we talk about that most of the time.
00:04:42
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:04:49
E Money Millionaire
I think probably. They wouldn't suffer through our conversations if they didn't care.
00:04:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I mean, this is episode 30 something. So, I mean, all right.
00:04:57
E Money Millionaire
yeah
00:04:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So wait, I just want to finish up on like
Passion Over Market Saturation
00:05:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
pitching the podcast. So someone said to me recently, Like, why did you want to do a podcast if you were like, it's so fucking saturated. The market is so saturated. There's so many podcasts. Every one of their brother has a podcast.
00:05:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And like, it didn't even dawn on me that that was true. When we pitched the podcast to each other, i wasn't thinking whether the market's saturated or not. I had no idea. i didn't listen to podcasts very much.
00:05:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I was just like, Eric, I want to talk about this. ah Like you know, cause we always talk about it when we're together.
00:05:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Always. Yeah. ah but ah we can't seem to not talk about like design or like some conceptual piece or the mentality of being a maker or like something mental.
00:05:33
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:05:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We can't seem to stay away from it. So it's like, why don't we just record it because we want to talk about it anyway and release it. That way other people can be part of the conversation. And if they find it useful, great.
00:05:58
E Money Millionaire
yeah
00:05:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Otherwise we'd be doing these conversations anyway in private, maybe not as many, but it provides an opportunity to learn.
00:06:04
E Money Millionaire
Well, that's the thing, right? is Is doing a thing because you think it has value or doing a thing because you are driven to do it is a worthwhile effort, even if the quote unquote market is saturated.
00:06:16
E Money Millionaire
Saying that a thing is saturated implies that you're probably not going to make money on it because there are too many other options for consumers.
00:06:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:06:22
E Money Millionaire
And that's fine. There's again.
00:06:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I wasn't even thinking about money at all.
00:06:26
E Money Millionaire
ah Right, right, right. and But all right. So I'm going to use this as a kind of offbeat example. there is a animated movie that just won best animated picture. And the the reason I'm going to bring this up is because the guy who made it is Latvian and that's my heritage. So I, I know what's going on with that, but every animated movie has been made.
00:06:50
E Money Millionaire
And the saturation of animated movies, digital animated movies in the English speaking world. I mean, there's there's an infinite number of them.
00:07:01
E Money Millionaire
This guy does not speak English and decided to make an animated movie. There are no words in a full length feature film. And the animation looks like it's something out of 2007, but he did such an incredible job telling the story. It's called Flow. It's a great it's a phenomenal movie.
00:07:22
E Money Millionaire
ah He did such a great job articulating the emotional arc of this main character, which is a cat. in it that it ends up winning best animated picture.
00:07:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Unbelievable.
00:07:34
E Money Millionaire
Like so. So if you go into a project thinking, well, I'm a tiny production studio and animation studio in what is
00:07:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm hmm.
00:07:45
E Money Millionaire
technically not a third world country, but like the, the, the overall population of Latvia is less than 3 million. It's like 2.2 million. There's 3 million Latvians worldwide.
00:07:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, that's like the population of Boston.
00:07:57
E Money Millionaire
Yeah. Like it's tiny and nobody speaks Latvian.
00:07:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:08:02
E Money Millionaire
Most people you speak to don't know that Latvia is a country. This guy decided that there was a story to tell and did it because he wanted to do it and ends up winning an Oscar for best picture.
00:08:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:08:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So that's, that's the, the, the message you, you make your own niche if you have passion and if it's good, it just creates its own niche.
00:08:17
E Money Millionaire
yeah yeah yeah we might be two idiots but we're passionate about woodworking so there's a conversation to be had sure
00:08:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love that.
00:08:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, that's for sure. Oh, you know, maybe, maybe we should talk about what we're actually going to talk about today. Like ah other than reminiscing about how the podcast started.
00:08:34
E Money Millionaire
sure
00:08:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So, um,
00:08:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
we Eric pitched this to me fairly recently.
New Format: Surprise Questions
00:08:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
He's like, what if we do an episode where it's just the two of us and we each come with a question and don't tell the other person what the question is.
00:08:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's his chaos piece that he loves. ah That puts me very ill at ease, of course. And because, you you know, I like to prep and have some framework for our discussion so it doesn't get off the rails like it does every time when Eric leaves.
00:09:03
E Money Millionaire
Every goddamn time, you're welcome. Ha ha ha ha.
00:09:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um So we're going to call this Paul and Eric 50-50, half and half. I'm not sure, but it's some form of that. ah Which do you like better, half and half or 50-50? All
00:09:14
E Money Millionaire
Half and half just reminds me of my mom drinking coffee. So we go 50-50, feel like.
00:09:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
all right. Paul and Eric, 50-50. So we each came with a question. We did not tell the other person what the question was, and that will be the basis of the show. So Eric...
00:09:28
E Money Millionaire
And in i I do want to ah we're going to dive into the question. I just want to preface this kind of give inspirational acknowledgement to a show called No Stupid Questions, which is a show I've listened to every episode that's been created um and in their later episodes, what they did was the two hosts had questions from the audience and I believe they didn't know what the other person's question was. So that's where I got this idea.
00:09:56
E Money Millionaire
um And I think that's important to acknowledge because we... live in this moment where we to talk about intellectual property and in stealing, et cetera, et cetera.
00:10:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Mm-hmm.
00:10:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:10:06
E Money Millionaire
um
00:10:07
E Money Millionaire
It's repurposing an idea that exists into a format that I think fits our podcast because of where it originated from. That said, That's a great podcast. Go listen. That's a free plug for no stupid questions.
00:10:20
E Money Millionaire
um Okay. So I got a comment on YouTube recently. I put up a short. And it was me making a shelf for Sarah's apartment, my partner's apartment.
00:10:33
E Money Millionaire
And as soon as like, even as I was making it, it had this kind of, Star Wars vibe to it. Like there was something kind of Imperial fleet about it.
00:10:45
E Money Millionaire
And I still can't put my finger on what that is. But consequently, use the Imperial March as the music for that piece. And I got this comment. I'm going to read it verbatim.
00:10:57
E Money Millionaire
It says, could you imagine what it was like the first time john williams gave the orchestra their sheets and the musicians were glancing over it there was a moment where he tapped his wand on a music stand raised his hands up and there was a split second of complete silence And this song existed, but still didn't.
00:11:21
E Money Millionaire
An orchestra about to sight-read this march and experience it for the very first time. And I like it's literally I'm thinking about it right now and it's getting me excited.
00:11:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I got like jittery as I,
00:11:32
E Money Millionaire
Right.
Makers vs. Viewers: Moments of Realization
00:11:33
E Money Millionaire
Right. Right. It's such a good comment. And so the question that I sat with on this, because there is you're talking about let's just take a violinist, for example, you're talking about a violinist in an orchestra who knows their part.
00:11:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah.
00:11:47
E Money Millionaire
And maybe they maybe they got the entire score, but more likely they got their part and they can see their part not seeing the whole.
00:11:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:11:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:11:56
E Money Millionaire
And the first time that they get to experience this, this masterpiece is in a moment.
00:12:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:12:04
E Money Millionaire
And I'm wondering if as woodworkers, we get those moments or if that kind of moment only belongs to the viewer, because woodworking takes so long. Any object takes so long to to complete and come to fruition.
00:12:19
E Money Millionaire
That by the end of it, we're so overly familiar with it that we we might struggle to take in the moment of what we've accomplished. Whereas a viewer comes into your shop, and this happens all the time to to folks, right? They come in and they go, oh, that piece is so amazing, but you're you're too close and you lose the forest for the trees. So I'm wondering...
00:12:42
E Money Millionaire
What do we get this type of moment as creators in furniture? Or does that, that type of experiential moment, that transcendent moment only exist for people who are not the creator.
00:12:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Having played an instrument from fourth grade through the end of graduate school, so I played ah single instrument for, i don't know how many years that is, like 15 years.
00:13:07
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:13:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I can speak to this because I have felt what it's like to be in a an all-state orchestra.
00:13:11
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:13:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I was able to be in the all-state and all-region band. These were very, very good bands, orchestras. And I've been able to be part of that where you're watching the conductor's baton and you're waiting for what you think you know it's gonna sound like. And I know what you're describing.
00:13:38
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:13:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I've been there and I've had the euphoria of sitting in the middle of the orchestra where the sound, it just envelops you.
00:13:40
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:13:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's all around you because all the play, you're in the middle of the whole orchestra, right?
00:13:49
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:13:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And the sound's everywhere. And it's loud. And it's phenomenal. And the players you're playing with are awesome. Just awesome players. And it's difficult to even describe the euphoria that comes with it.
00:14:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I've experienced it as the player. And I've experienced it as the viewer. As I take my daughter to see the BSO now.
00:14:14
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:14:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And we just saw the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra just a month ago. so i think And let's bring this back to woodworking too. I would say, Eric, my answer is something you didn't mention, which is it is only that kind of that kind of intensity is only reserved for the maker.
00:14:38
E Money Millionaire
Interesting.
00:14:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I didn't...
00:14:39
E Money Millionaire
What do you mean by intensity?
00:14:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So like... you know You know, when you were telling that comment, you had me kind of on pins and needles.
00:14:46
E Money Millionaire
Right, right.
00:14:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i was You brought me back to the moment that I was sitting in the chair about to play Elsa's procession to the cathedral, which if you Google it and you listen to it, it's it's an amazing song.
00:14:50
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:14:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And it's like moving. It's like you'll never forget playing that song as part of an orchestra. You brought me back to that moment. And... That moment was so intense.
00:15:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I mean, it was a 12 out of 10 and I'll never forget it, but that's because I was part of it and I was in the middle of it.
00:15:13
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:15:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
As the viewer, I've never had anything even close to that intensity.
00:15:22
E Money Millionaire
Really
00:15:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes, not even close.
00:15:26
E Money Millionaire
interesting.
00:15:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I think I had to be part of, I had to be in it. I had to be part of the fabric of it. And it, man, it blew that scale out of the roof.
00:15:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It was unimaginably like intense and emotional, but I've never felt that in the audience before.
00:15:43
E Money Millionaire
It's that's. So that's interesting. So I was trying to relate it to the viewer because I don't know. maybe Maybe there's a third leg of this that is about the communal creating experience.
00:16:01
E Money Millionaire
the The experience of creating with others, right? because so So it sounds to me like, and tell me to fuck off if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like what you're saying is
00:16:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:16:10
E Money Millionaire
the having some base understanding like in out. No, it's no. I don't think it's a ah surprising to any of our listeners that you thrive with an outline.
00:16:22
E Money Millionaire
ah so so having an outline in some base understanding of what the thing is allows you to experience it deeper when it all comes together and coalesces.
00:16:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
hmm.
00:16:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Fair, fair.
00:16:34
E Money Millionaire
And i I would not disagree with that. Right. I think that's totally fair. But in woodworking, how do we get that type of thing? Because either you are the sole creator, and we're just talking in our world, you and I, right?
00:16:48
E Money Millionaire
Either you're the sole creator or you are experiencing the thing as a viewer.
00:16:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yep. Yep. Or do you the receiver?
00:16:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right?
00:16:54
E Money Millionaire
And there's very, there's no moment at which that I could think of when I was kind of sitting with this question, that you know your piece in the whole, but you don't know the whole yet.
00:16:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Or viewer? Yeah.
00:17:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Don't you think that as the maker, you have ah more emotional moment with the piece than a viewer?
00:17:19
E Money Millionaire
I agree completely. i agree I guess what I'm saying is like the.
00:17:27
E Money Millionaire
Sometimes with very few pieces, we get the moment where we step back and we get to look
Infatuation vs. Deep Connection
00:17:34
E Money Millionaire
at it and we go, oh, that that's actually good. Like I actually did a thing.
00:17:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:17:39
E Money Millionaire
But I think often that that feeling is either relayed by other people's reactions to it. So like it's good, but you can't quite see that it's good because you're too close to it.
00:17:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah?
00:17:52
E Money Millionaire
And so it's and consequently, I think with time and space and reflection, you recognize that it's good. Or by the time you get to the finish line you know that it so let's
00:18:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:18:07
E Money Millionaire
by the time you get to the finish line, you know that it's going to be good.
00:18:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I know it.
00:18:10
E Money Millionaire
So let's let's let's take another analogy.
00:18:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:18:15
E Money Millionaire
In a Super Bowl, there are the moments that are theatrical, and it's the last play of the game, and it's, you know,
00:18:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:18:22
E Money Millionaire
ah It's an interception at the goal line because they should have just handed the fucking ball off to Marshawn Lynch, right?
00:18:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I was going to say the Patriots in Seattle.
00:18:30
E Money Millionaire
Like it's that, it's that, right? And so that that is a huge dopamine rush of of elation, of you did not know it was coming, and then you see it and it happens.
00:18:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:18:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:18:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right. Right. Right.
00:18:43
E Money Millionaire
Versus this past Super Bowl in Philly. Now, I had a great fucking time. The city of Philly had a great fucking time.
00:18:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:18:52
E Money Millionaire
But by the end of the first quarter, you kind of knew it was coming. And so it hits differently, even though it's still like the the the jubilation is good.
00:18:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:18:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but that's a different question. Sorry, you changed the question. Your first question was, are are you as the maker or the viewer experiencing like like a, but now now you're saying, is it a surprise versus if you know it's coming?
00:19:07
E Money Millionaire
Right, right, right. They are different questions, but I'm trying to... um
00:19:12
E Money Millionaire
Well, i so I guess that's the thing is like as as a member of an orchestra, you know your part and you know it's coming, but you don't see the whole picture versus what we do.
00:19:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You know it's coming?
00:19:24
E Money Millionaire
You see the whole picture and you only get to experience it as it unfolds. There's no surprise in the process that we experience.
00:19:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, I see what you mean. I see what you mean.
00:19:32
E Money Millionaire
You know, the viewer comes in and is overwhelmed by a thing.
00:19:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So the viewer sees it for the first time and it's like a surprise. Oh, I see what you're saying.
00:19:40
E Money Millionaire
it's It's love at first sight versus versus this slow evolution of affection.
00:19:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, I could, I don't, wow. Yeah, wow, that's a great point. I could see it both ways. i don't know, Eric, now you've kind of you've kind of reversed me.
00:19:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see what you mean.
00:19:54
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, it's it's a hard, because once you, because the tricky thing is once you feel it's going in the right direction and you follow that and it starts to flow and you get into that state of flow, it's a wonderful feeling.
00:20:08
E Money Millionaire
But you then, you kind of know that it's going to work.
00:20:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wait, wait, how about relating this as a metaphor to relationships? and
00:20:18
E Money Millionaire
Okay. All right, let's do it, baby.
00:20:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, one is like the first one is like a blind date, where you're like, holy shit, that she's really pretty.
00:20:20
E Money Millionaire
Let's dive.
00:20:23
E Money Millionaire
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And you're like, whoa right?
00:20:26
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:20:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But then the other is like a marriage where you know what it is. But the feelings run a lot deeper.
00:20:31
E Money Millionaire
Mm.
00:20:34
E Money Millionaire
Mm.
00:20:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So one's kind of bubblegum infatuation and the other, if you're doing it right.
00:20:35
E Money Millionaire
But.
00:20:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
mean, I'm not.
00:20:40
E Money Millionaire
I, yeah, the Lord willing and the creek don't rest.
00:20:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i mean i'm not seven the
00:20:45
E Money Millionaire
So, so I, I hear, i hear what you're saying and I agree with you completely. I think that's, that's an excellent analogy because one is overwhelming at a, in a moment versus like, it's not.
00:20:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The viewer to a piece of furniture may be overwhelmed in the moment, but the maker has lived with that piece every fucking inch of the way, right?
00:21:01
E Money Millionaire
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:21:07
E Money Millionaire
And that's that's a really, that's a good point to bring up because one is not less than the other. And you could easily make the argument that long-term investment and understanding where it's going to go and choosing to be in that long-term relationship and developing affection is is deeper and truer.
00:21:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:26
E Money Millionaire
and think that's a fair point.
00:21:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes, and it affects you for longer. And that comes back to my idea idea of playing an instrument. Like I will never forget that moment of playing that song when I was a teenager.
00:21:31
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:21:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yet I'm sure the audience doesn't remember it.
00:21:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's here today, gone tomorrow.
00:21:38
E Money Millionaire
Sure, sure.
00:21:39
E Money Millionaire
it's your That's your moment.
00:21:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, so that's a great.
00:21:42
E Money Millionaire
But, but, but coming back to the infatuation, maybe this is just a broader cultural issue.
00:21:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, that's true.
00:21:51
E Money Millionaire
Nobody, how, okay, maybe not nobody. How many movies are about moments of infatuation versus deep, long-term developed love and actual affection and respect?
00:22:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
they're all in fact They're all moments of infatuation.
00:22:06
E Money Millionaire
Right, right, right, right. And so, okay.
00:22:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but that's that's geared toward money-making, dude.
00:22:10
E Money Millionaire
yeah but But I, yes. But I think that's also, I also think that's been around far longer than American dollar.
00:22:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The cinema is fucked.
00:22:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, I'll tell you, that the the pictures that typically win Oscars are the longer sit with you for the rest of your life type pictures, right?
00:22:28
E Money Millionaire
Oh, that's fair. That's fair. That's an interesting point.
00:22:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And the ones, the Marvel, like, you know, Ant-Man and shit like that are like bubblegum, like, I'm just going to forget my problems for two hours.
00:22:34
E Money Millionaire
Sure. sure
00:22:38
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, we all know Ant-Man is a bubblegum romance. You know, that's...
00:22:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, you know what I mean? It's like, you're not going to remember the plot tomorrow.
00:22:43
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:22:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I guarantee it.
00:22:45
E Money Millionaire
no you're right. You're right. You're right. That's a fair point.
00:22:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Whereas like I watched, I don't know, you know, some of the Oscar nominations, whether it was like, uh, you know, i don't remember, but, um,
00:22:52
E Money Millionaire
Sure. a thing A thing that moves you is an investment in the thing.
00:22:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, they they stay with you for many years.
00:22:57
E Money Millionaire
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:22:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I guess as woodworkers and artists, I prefer the the the longer term, more gritty, more real connection than I do the quick hit. But that's not to say it's all one or all the other.
00:23:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You know, I think there's a balance, like both have their place in your life, right?
00:23:10
E Money Millionaire
Sure.
00:23:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You don't always want a long, protracted, ah harangue story, right? That like emotionally exhausts you because you don't have that much energy.
00:23:24
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, you need you need some bubblegum romance in your life.
00:23:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, you need a break from the intensity sometimes. So that's where I think the the quick hit.
00:23:30
E Money Millionaire
Yeah. so So you need...
00:23:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How about you How do you feel about this? What do you prefer?
00:23:35
E Money Millionaire
About what specifically?
00:23:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, like, what do you prefer? Like with your pieces, like, what seems to move you more like the making of the piece? Or like the quick hit the the you know, the infatuation of someone else's piece?
00:23:48
E Money Millionaire
Well, I think to your point, I've never been able to fall in love with an object or a person for that matter without knowing background information on them.
00:24:01
E Money Millionaire
You know, like I am not, I'm not a love at first sight kind of person. I am very much a, the more I sit with a thing, the more, and the more I know about a thing, the more deeply I can love it.
00:24:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Is that why you love me so much?
00:24:13
E Money Millionaire
Um, that's why I love you so much, buddy.
00:24:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I know.
00:24:16
E Money Millionaire
It's, it's, you know, it it keeps getting deeper with time, you know?
00:24:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i know. know. I know.
00:24:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:24:22
E Money Millionaire
Um, so, and and like anytime that I am infatuated with a piece, I, the, the first thing I do is try to learn everything I can about the piece.
00:24:35
E Money Millionaire
And if that information lends itself to more and more, uh, deep layers of understanding about the piece and the artist, then it makes me fall in love with it more.
00:24:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm.
00:24:47
E Money Millionaire
So let's, let's take, so let's go back to music because of the question, you know, Bolero, right?
00:24:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Yeah.
00:24:53
E Money Millionaire
Right. but
00:24:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:24:54
E Money Millionaire
By Ravel. Um, I've heard anecdotal tales and this is whatever this piece is a hundred plus years old. So anecdotal tales of the first time that, that people heard that at a show by about the seventh refrain, people were shouting at the stage and walking out of the concert because it's a single.
00:25:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm. Mm.
00:25:17
E Money Millionaire
So it, for those of you who, who don't know anything about music and I certainly don't pretend to know everything about music, but, There is a melody line that begins slowly and softly.
00:25:28
E Money Millionaire
And then over the course of 15 minutes becomes louder and more emphasized and more exaggerated and sped up.
00:25:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:25:38
E Money Millionaire
And that is incredibly atypical of what a singular composition actually looks like.
00:25:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
sure
00:25:45
E Money Millionaire
And it's, it's a refrain of like 32 bars or something. It's not a long refrain. So to play that for 15 minutes is a choice. And the first time I heard it, I was like, huh, that's interesting.
00:25:57
E Money Millionaire
And the second time I heard it, I liked it a little bit more. And then I started looking into Ravel as a composer. And I, I realized he was suffering from a particular degenerative disease at that point that, um,
00:26:12
E Money Millionaire
influenced his decision-making and you could just Google it. I don't, I don't have all of the information offhand, but the more I learned about the song and the more I learned about Ravel in the moment in which he was creating that piece.
00:26:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:26:27
E Money Millionaire
And the more I realized that was deeply reflective of that human moment in time that he was experiencing, the more I fell in love with that composition.
00:26:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:26:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:26:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see.
00:26:37
E Money Millionaire
And it's, it's now like, It's not I'm not going to sit here and say it's the best piece of music ever written, but it's one of the things that I think about most often is that like of classical music that doesn't fall under classic.
00:26:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sure.
00:26:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow. Hmm.
00:26:52
E Money Millionaire
No, but please don't, you know, shoot me a DM and tell me how it's not technically classical. um Orchestral music, we'll say.
00:26:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, the the point is it stuck with you.
00:27:01
E Money Millionaire
The point is it stuck with me and the more I learned about it, the more it ingrained itself in me.
00:27:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Hmm.
00:27:07
E Money Millionaire
and And similar with pieces of furniture, I see a thing and I go, oh, that's beautiful.
00:27:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:27:13
E Money Millionaire
Why is it beautiful? I want to learn more and I want to learn more about the composition and I want to learn more about the creator's
00:27:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:27:20
E Money Millionaire
thought process in the moment in the more information there is available, the more I can fall love, the more we'll, so we'll, we'll say this, the more emotionally available the object is like in a relationship with a person, the more able I am to fall in love with it.
00:27:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right Yeah. All right
00:27:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I get that. I get that. So I have a follow up question related to that. So I do the same thing. If I like something and I'm and enamored by it, I like deep dive it right to understand more about it.
00:27:43
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:27:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How often when you deep dive into an object or a person or a musician or anything, how often are you underwhelmed by what you find versus versus impressed?
00:27:54
E Money Millionaire
More often than not. More often than not. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, you're you're more often like let down, right?
00:27:59
E Money Millionaire
More often. Because so so many people are hesitant to be emotionally open or or even intellectually open about their process and about the thing that they made.
00:28:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Every time I deep dive, I would say eight times out of 10, I lose respect for what I deep dived on because the story or the person is just not who I thought they were.
00:28:21
E Money Millionaire
Just comes up flat. Yeah.
00:28:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, it left me way flattered. Maybe maybe that that file that under the idea that your imagination is far better than the reality typically.
00:28:24
E Money Millionaire
hu
00:28:30
E Money Millionaire
Oh, sure.
00:28:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
once and Once in a blue moon, someone will really wow me.
00:28:31
E Money Millionaire
Sure.
00:28:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But nine eight times out of ten, it's like, oh, it was just like a one-off. Or, oh, you know, it's it's not as good as I thought.
00:28:41
E Money Millionaire
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a one hit wonder or whatever the thing is. Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Interesting, Eric.
00:28:47
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:28:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
When you were reading that, I was like on my like tiptoes.
00:28:52
E Money Millionaire
It's such, it is fucking brilliant comment. Whoever wrote that, if you listen to the podcast, that was a phenomenal comment.
00:29:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:29:01
E Money Millionaire
And like what I, what I loved about it is it wasn't a comment about my work.
00:29:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No.
00:29:07
E Money Millionaire
It wasn't a comment about it's good, it's bad, the technique, the wood, et cetera, et cetera.
00:29:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No.
00:29:13
E Money Millionaire
It was a thought that allowed me and presumably the viewer and anybody else who saw that comment to connect with the thing that I made using analogy or an allegory completely different.
00:29:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No.
00:29:28
E Money Millionaire
And that like, I don't know if you're a teacher, sir or madam, but that was a brilliant teaching moment is what that was.
00:29:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Ah.
00:29:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Ha ha ha ha ha. Well, being a lover of Star Wars and like, I felt that.
00:29:42
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, man.
00:29:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And by the way, it does look like one of the Star Wars ships.
00:29:43
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:29:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's what it is. I think it's one of one of the Rebel ships has that T-shape to it.
00:29:46
E Money Millionaire
That's it.
00:29:49
E Money Millionaire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:29:50
E Money Millionaire
And I cut, I like, i I like Star Wars.
00:29:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:29:53
E Money Millionaire
I can't say I love Star Wars. I couldn't put my finger on what it was, but as soon as I saw it, it felt like one of those ships.
00:30:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my God, I love Star Wars and I've indoctrinated my daughter into loving Star Wars to the point that it has become her emotional security blanket.
00:30:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like,
00:30:09
E Money Millionaire
So I have to assume that she has a Jar Jar Binks stuffed animal or?
00:30:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and not a Jar Jar Binks, but she does have an R2-D2.
00:30:12
E Money Millionaire
Sure, sure,
00:30:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It has more of recently been replaced by a baguette, which is like the French bread baguette pillow that has become the new favorite.
00:30:22
E Money Millionaire
sure, sure. sure sure
00:30:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But um we have seen Star Wars performed by the BSO. We go to every movie premiere together ah since the time she was a little girl. we We watch it together when she's feeling down because that's like her safe space is Star Wars.
00:30:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I've done my job right as her father.
00:30:37
E Money Millionaire
i i got You absolutely have. got to tell you a very honest and emotionally vulnerable ah quick aside.
00:30:49
E Money Millionaire
So um growing up, you know, says you and I have talked about it i haven't talked about it. publicly about the the difficulties of kind of my preteen and in teenage years.
00:31:01
E Money Millionaire
But it was a difficult time ah nonetheless. And i can't say that I was a great older brother to my brother. But one of the things that I tried to do that was like you know, good older brother and younger brother bonding time was we skipped school when, um, the Phantom Menace came out and we went and saw it on opening day.
00:31:23
E Money Millionaire
And I was so, I was so stoked to be like, this is, this is a thing we're doing together.
00:31:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's awesome.
00:31:28
E Money Millionaire
We watched all three movies together when we were kids. Like this is a thing.
00:31:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's awesome.
00:31:32
E Money Millionaire
And then we went and we saw it and we both walked out of the theater. Like, i't I don't think that was good, was it?
00:31:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Charger Beaks ruined it, dude.
00:31:42
E Money Millionaire
even Even like fucking 17-year-old Eric was like, I'm pretty sure that was a bad movie.
00:31:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's because you didn't help film the movie.
00:31:53
E Money Millionaire
i yeah
00:31:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
you were You were the viewer rather than the maker.
00:31:58
E Money Millionaire
Oh, man. All right, buddy boy.
00:31:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
00:32:00
E Money Millionaire
what's your What's your question? What do you got?
00:32:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. So is it time to switch to my question?
00:32:04
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, let's let's dive in.
00:32:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, God, Eric. This is this is deep.
00:32:08
E Money Millionaire
Okay, let's do it.
00:32:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Okay. Oh, man. I always feel bad asking you this.
00:32:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric. When insecurity creeps in about your woodworking or your professional woodworking career, what is it about?
00:32:31
E Money Millionaire
when is it Hit me with it again. hit me with it one more time.
00:32:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
When insecurity creeps in, what is it in regards to? And I'm specifically talking about you as a maker.
00:32:42
E Money Millionaire
Sure, sure, sure. No, no, no. This is a personal question.
00:32:49
E Money Millionaire
Because I've been building things for so long, the the overwhelming majority of my life, there's never really a point now at which I worry about if the thing I made is technically sound.
00:33:10
E Money Millionaire
But there have definitely been moments, even in the last year or six months, where I look at a thing that I've made and genuinely have been like, i don't i don't know if I'm any good at this.
00:33:27
E Money Millionaire
From a design, from expressive standpoint of just like,
00:33:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:33:34
E Money Millionaire
I know. So there, there are things that I remind myself of because emotions are fickle and, and, you know, I can get in my own head. We can all get in our own heads.
00:33:46
E Money Millionaire
And I have these, and don't, I don't know if the mantra is the right word to to say, but like, you know, I often talk about not everything can be in home run, right. And a standup single has value.
00:34:01
E Money Millionaire
I think that's, that's a fair analogy. But if you hit a handful of stand-up singles in a row, a dozen stand-up singles in a row, it's like, tit did I lose my power?
00:34:15
E Money Millionaire
you know like and am i Am I any fucking good at this thing? Or am I just good enough and charismatic? And so that's that's that's where the insecurity creeps in of like,
00:34:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow, Eric.
Artistic Drive Amid Personal Contentment
00:34:30
E Money Millionaire
I don't, I don't know. I don't know. i don't know if I have the capacity. So here's another thing. I don't want to perpetuate the stereotype of the the tortured artist.
00:34:41
E Money Millionaire
um And that's a, that's a conversation we will get into in a future episode we already have on the docket. But I also recognize not all of my best work.
00:34:56
E Money Millionaire
but certainly more than 50% of my best work have come at moments where I was emotionally vulnerable and needed to express a thing for my own emotional wellbeing.
00:35:11
E Money Millionaire
And now I'm in a place, thankfully, where i like I am reasonably economically stable in spite of the the moment that we're living in.
00:35:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:35:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You're fat and happy.
00:35:23
E Money Millionaire
i'm in ah I'm in a relationship with a wonderful human being. Like i'm umm I'm overall, I'm very happy with my life. And I look at the work I've put out over the last two years.
00:35:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And it looks like you're happy. Yeah.
00:35:36
E Money Millionaire
and it and And it looks like, yeah, it looks like I don't give a fuck.
00:35:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow. Eric. yeah
00:35:40
E Money Millionaire
It looks like it looks like i'm it looks like I'm working rather than expressing or creating.
00:35:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
wow eric
00:35:48
E Money Millionaire
And so there are those there are those moments where it's just a question of like, am I good at this thing or am I manic and and emotionally unstable?
00:35:58
E Money Millionaire
And when shit hits the fan, I have to have a vehicle to expel that from myself.
00:36:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:36:06
E Money Millionaire
Or am I actually a good designer?
00:36:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, for those of you who don't know Eric as well as I do, I can tell you unequivocally that was an extremely honest answer. I know.
00:36:19
E Money Millionaire
I mean, I'm not here to bullshit, dog, you know?
00:36:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i know. That was... No. That was as revealing and insightful and... Like, that is honesty through and through. so i appreciate that answer.
00:36:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I know what you mean. I know the feeling.
00:36:34
E Money Millionaire
what's what's What's your feeling on it? Like, where do you come down on that?
00:36:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh. Um...
00:36:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's similar.
00:36:42
E Money Millionaire
Hmm. Shocking.
00:36:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i
00:36:43
E Money Millionaire
That's surprising to everybody who's ever listened to this podcast that we would have a similar opinion.
00:36:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i
00:36:47
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:36:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I know technically what I make is good enough. I know that.
00:36:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No one's ever, ever implied it wasn't technically good enough. But I do know that there is a data driven phenomena that people do their best work
00:37:09
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:37:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
when they're younger in general.
00:37:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
There's a graph, there's a graph and it's across time. let's The first time I saw this is looking at Nobel laureates.
00:37:12
E Money Millionaire
Oh.
00:37:22
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:37:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
At what age did Nobel laureates make their Nobel winning discoveries or their paradigm shifting discoveries? When did they shake shit up?
00:37:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It peaks around late thirties.
00:37:38
E Money Millionaire
Interesting.
00:37:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
early 40s, and then precipitously, well, not precipitously, and then it declines through the 50s and 60s and 70s, and then precipitously drops off.
00:37:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So that says, this is not opinion. This is fact, that the average person, now you might not be average, you might think you're different, but the average person does their best, most,
00:38:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
groundbreaking stuff in their late 30s and early to mid 40s. Why is that?
00:38:13
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:38:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Because when you're younger than that, you don't know enough about yourself, you don't know enough about the discipline, you're still learning how to do the thing.
00:38:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
At that age, 30s, early 40s, you're young, you're old enough to know the score, but you're young enough to play the game still.
00:38:36
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:38:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You got what it takes to still do the thing and you know what, and you're hungry. you're still hungry. you still got that hunger, that angst that drives you out of the norm, out of convention, away from the bandwagon to try some new fucking shit that you've never seen before. And you don't care what anyone thinks.
00:38:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The problem is by the time you're in your like later forties, fifties, you're fat and happy again, Eric, in a way, like you said, you start to feel more content with your life, you're more financially secure, you're not really looking to upset the balance as much.
00:39:07
E Money Millionaire
Mm-hmm.
00:39:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um You you have children now, I'm just giving an example.
00:39:19
E Money Millionaire
Sure, sure, sure.
00:39:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You have children now, you have a spouse, you have friends and like life is balanced and life is amazing and happy. And if you're happy all the time and you're content and you feel good, you're not looking to like express something where you take that fucking knob and you turn it from a three up to a 15, you know, because you don't feel that in your heart.
00:39:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You feel pretty happy day to day. Yeah.
00:39:45
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and you And you don't have quite the energy. Like when you're younger, you just have this endless energy. And I think as you get older, you know, you're just kind of more, you're wiser, you're more stable.
00:39:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like in when I was 20, man, I used to get like high highs and low lows. I was like, woo, right?
00:40:02
E Money Millionaire
Sure, sure, sure.
00:40:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But now that I'm 50, I'm much more even, Steven. I'm way more stable.
00:40:08
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:40:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And that's brilliant for day-to-day life. And it's brilliant as a parent. I can see my daughter come in with shit where she's like yo-yoing from like the highest high.
00:40:19
E Money Millionaire
Mm-hmm.
00:40:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I can be that stable voice of reason. That's like, it's okay. You know, this is what you should do. Or like, tell me about this. It's okay. You know, I'm that even voice for her.
00:40:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And that comes with age. and But that doesn't lend itself to
00:40:33
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:40:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
groundbreaking science or groundbreaking art.
00:40:36
E Money Millionaire
Right, right. That obsession is is lacking. And that that that willingness to sacrifice everything and everyone for that matter, right?
00:40:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's right.
00:40:49
E Money Millionaire
Like when you're, you know, in your 50s, you know, you have you have a daughter, you have a wife.
00:40:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's right.
00:40:54
E Money Millionaire
the The idea of, um I have an idea and I'm going to throw these relationships away.
00:40:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, so yeah. Risk it all, right? Yeah.
00:41:02
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:41:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:41:04
E Money Millionaire
You know what that is?
00:41:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:41:05
E Money Millionaire
That's a shitty parent.
00:41:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. And it's risk.
00:41:07
E Money Millionaire
but but it But it could, lennt and I'm not saying it does, and i'm not i don't I want to be careful not to kind of hold that up on a pedestal, but more successful artists and groundbreaking artists than not had...
00:41:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it It represents risk, high risk.
00:41:28
E Money Millionaire
difficult personal relationships because of the willingness to throw away those relationships for the sake of doing something.
00:41:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes. Yes. Yes.
00:41:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yes
00:41:38
E Money Millionaire
And and whether whether it's obsession and and manic energy or simply ego and needing to constantly revisit trying to one-up yourself.
00:41:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:41:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
A hundred percent, yes. Ella Fitzgerald, alcoholic, horrible mom, the most brilliant jazz singer the world's ever seen.
00:41:57
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Miles Davis, you know, drug addict, ah you know, out of his mind with drugs, you know, unstable.
00:41:59
E Money Millionaire
Yep.
00:42:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
John Coltrane died of a heroin overdose, I think.
Stability, Risk, and Creativity
00:42:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Totally unstable, um but brilliant artistically, right?
00:42:13
E Money Millionaire
So so is it is it causation or correlation to some extent? Because I wonder, like, there's a lot of people who ah have died of a heroin overdose, right?
00:42:25
E Money Millionaire
who have not been brilliant jazz musicians. And I'm wondering, is, is the, is the obsession with an endless pursuit of creative greatness part of it?
00:42:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well,
00:42:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
that's it. That's That's it. That's it.
00:42:41
E Money Millionaire
Is that it?
00:42:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's it.
00:42:41
E Money Millionaire
Or, or is
00:42:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's it.
00:42:43
E Money Millionaire
or is it also partially that these people were going to be predisposed to those ah things anyway. And they happened to find a thing that could almost do the same thing and quell those desires for a moment.
00:42:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can't speak. That's a great point. Because, yeah, those people trend towards high risk, high reward because they're wired for highrisk high risk.
00:43:05
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know, Eric. That's a great point.
00:43:08
E Money Millionaire
It's the same thing. like we we so We're doing this right now in a cultural moment of like, Tom Brady was the greatest of all time.
00:43:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:43:15
E Money Millionaire
tom Tom Brady looks, and I'm i'm not going to judge his humanity, but from the outside looking in, has sacrificed a lot to play an extra one to two years in the NFL, largely considered the greatest player of all time.
00:43:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:43:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:43:33
E Money Millionaire
That's wonderful.
00:43:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:43:34
E Money Millionaire
He kind of looks like a miserable human being from the outside who's terrified and again, I'm not trying to judge you.
00:43:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know if he's...
00:43:41
E Money Millionaire
I don't know if he's miserable. I don't know him.
00:43:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
As someone who lives in New England and has followed it and has ah No, i agree, Eric.
00:43:44
E Money Millionaire
No. That's don't let your fandom show too hard. Listen, I respect the fuck out of what he accomplished, but also like looking, looking at it from what I i think and hope would be a healthier emotional standpoint.
00:43:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:43:57
E Money Millionaire
Would I be willing to sacrifice? yeah Would I be willing to sacrifice Sarah to be the greatest football player of all time? No. Like that's, that's, that's an easy no for me, dog.
00:44:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You might have said yes if you were 21.
00:44:10
E Money Millionaire
When I was 20. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:44:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:12
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:44:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
so So coming back to your question about, or sorry, my question about what insecurity creeps in.
00:44:17
E Money Millionaire
No, your question, yeah.
00:44:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's ah now that we've talked through this, I can i can say it a different way. i can say, is my I worry, is my best work behind me?
00:44:32
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:44:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I worry a lot about that. And every piece I make, I ask myself,
00:44:38
E Money Millionaire
Do you...
00:44:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
is this just me like trying and it's, or did I actually, did did the magic happen again? Do I still have the magic or is it behind me?
00:44:59
E Money Millionaire
Do you actually think that your best work is behind you or is that just an anxiety? Hmm.
00:45:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know the answer. I honestly don't know because trying to find my voice when I started Copper Pig like eight years ago, trying to figure out who I was as a designer was a very passionate moment for me and it it lasted years.
00:45:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I tried all kinds of stupid shit. And when I nailed it time or two, when I would happen on those gems along the way, it filled me up like my like my chest wanted to burst open.
00:45:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It felt so euphoric.
00:45:35
E Money Millionaire
Mm-hmm.
00:45:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
like I found ah like I figured it out like this piece when I look at it, it fills me up. It gives me chills. It makes me feel fucking amazing. I think I'm onto something and I would pursue that down a line.
00:45:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And the next piece I'm like, that's good. That's not quick. And then two or three pieces later, I'd hit it again. And it it made me feel like that euphoria again. And lately it's been projects and and requests The projects have been coming in, the commissions have been coming in, and they say, can you make me this? Can you make me that?
00:46:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I very much want to. i totally These are great commissions. Meaningful, thoughtful, appreciative customers, total artistic freedom, well like total fair compensation, everything about it. Check, check, check, check, check.
00:46:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And then when I finish them, I step back and I don't know if I'm riffing on my previous accomplishments, my previous progress. Like I made progress before when I was hungry.
00:46:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Am I just riffing on that? Am I just mailing it in variations on a theme or am I continuing to develop? I i don't know the answer yet.
00:46:52
E Money Millionaire
Oh boy. That's well, so I, I'm,
00:46:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How about, how about you?
00:46:58
E Money Millionaire
I'm thinking about what you just said, and I'm wondering if, and this is, ah I'm going to use the generic you. I don't want this to sound like I'm i'm saying you, Paul, because this very much applies to me too.
00:47:11
E Money Millionaire
But is part of that um questioning, that worry, that difficulty,
00:47:19
E Money Millionaire
your inability to accept your finite limitations, is it ego? Right. be it just So, so there can only be, and I know Isaac Newton is a flawed example because maybe he stole calculus from somebody else, or maybe it was just a concurrent revelation situation, but there are only so many Isaac Newtons that come along and everybody before Isaac Newton could do math up to the existence of calculus.
00:47:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:47:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:47:51
E Money Millionaire
And calculus didn't exist yet. And it took a new in to invent calculus or discover calculus, however you want to see it, to expand that world beyond that. So your your best work could be brilliant.
00:48:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:48:07
E Money Millionaire
But you have limitations as a human being, as a creative person. and is part And is part of our job to accept that limitation and be happy with it.
00:48:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That you can't... I know, I know, I know what you're saying.
00:48:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:48:20
E Money Millionaire
Like, for example, you know, yeah Mickey Mantle, you know, one of the the greatest hitters of all time.
00:48:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:48:30
E Money Millionaire
Eventually, he lost the magic. His body broke down because he was a raging alcoholic and it broke down faster than some other people in the nineteen thirty s
00:48:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:48:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:48:40
E Money Millionaire
And you can either keep pushing through and try to hit beat beat Roger. Roger Maris got there ah in the home run derby, or you can accept that you're older.
00:48:55
E Money Millionaire
and shit's going to break down faster and your body's going to have more aches and you accept your humanity. And as part of our job to accept our humanity and look at our career in retrospect and go, we made some good shit like we contributed and contributing to the craft is enough.
00:49:12
E Money Millionaire
Or do we have to be one of the Titans sitting atop Mount Olympus?
00:49:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, great. Great question. I don't think I was ever a Titan of any sort. i I wanted to be good at design. I don't know if I got there.
00:49:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i mean, it it's good. It's like, I feel like I would give myself like a B. Maybe a B plus on occasion. But... Am i rewriting design of furniture or woodworking?
00:49:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Not in any way, shape, or form. No. i I am, but... a hack or, sorry, a hack, that's not good.
00:49:54
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah, don't don't undersell it.
00:49:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I am nobody. No, no, I really think I'm nobody compared to people who started whole designs, who conceptualized entire fields of design.
00:50:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
They, to me, are the titans. They had such profound vision and such profound design ideas that they could inspire an entire movement of art i I am nothing compared to that.
00:50:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I am but taking the dregs of little tiny ideas and like putting them together in unique combinations.
00:50:30
E Money Millionaire
Okay, here's where I'm going to push back on you against that.
00:50:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So...
00:50:33
E Money Millionaire
Push back against you on that.
00:50:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:50:38
E Money Millionaire
So much of that legacy is it is it it's, it I mean, it's just time, right?
00:50:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Is marketing and sales. yeah Yeah, time time, marketing, sales.
00:50:44
E Money Millionaire
Edgar, at Edgar Allen Poe invented the category of science fiction and died broke and drunk in a gutter in Baltimore.
00:50:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah Yeah, all of it. That's true. That's true. that That's true. That's true.
00:50:53
E Money Millionaire
And nobody thought he was worth a fucking damn.
00:50:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, that's that's true.
00:50:56
E Money Millionaire
And it's not 150 years later. We're like, he was a fucking genius.
00:50:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, and Mark Rothko's paintings were selling for nothing, and now they're going for $120 million.
00:51:02
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah. And and Henry Wandsworth Longfellow was one of the greatest ah poets of his time, and now nobody takes him seriously because he's seen as a fucking pop artist.
00:51:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But...
00:51:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
mayor yeah
00:51:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And none of that has to do with the art, actually.
00:51:12
E Money Millionaire
so So, the perception of the art.
00:51:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It has to do with a narrative and sales and money and a perception.
00:51:18
E Money Millionaire
But your legacy in the vehicle, the field in which you exist.
00:51:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on the the field leaders.
00:51:27
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um Do you think your best – Eric, do you think your best pieces are behind you?
00:51:30
E Money Millionaire
Go ahead. look go ahead
00:51:37
E Money Millionaire
I don't know. that's a that's ah That's a hard question to answer.
00:51:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
what was it what What was the last piece you made that actually was like, fuck, wow. Yes, I did it.
00:51:48
E Money Millionaire
Unequivocally, ah the Ponchette cabinet.
00:51:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I know what you're going to say. i knew I knew it.
00:51:51
E Money Millionaire
I know, I know.
00:51:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I knew it.
00:51:53
E Money Millionaire
but but But so this also comes to the question of like, how many groundbreaking pieces do you actually have? Right? Like in, in the course of a career over course of 50 years, how many groundbreaking pieces do you actually have?
00:52:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:52:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How many ground?
00:52:08
E Money Millionaire
How many things, if I say, if I say Andy Warhol, how many, pi how many images come to mind?
00:52:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Yeah.
00:52:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Andy Warhol. Come on now.
00:52:14
E Money Millionaire
Let's just, but I mean, it's, you know, one, one of the most prominent artists of the twentieth century.
00:52:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. how Okay. How many groundbreaking songs does Queen have?
00:52:17
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:52:20
E Money Millionaire
Sure, sure. i mean, I love Queen, so umm like i'm I know a lot of their discography.
00:52:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, don't know, but groundbreaking.
00:52:27
E Money Millionaire
Groundbreaking?
00:52:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like five? Three?
00:52:29
E Money Millionaire
Maybe, and they're one of the most successful of all time.
00:52:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How about, I don't know. um pick Pick someone.
00:52:38
E Money Millionaire
I mean, Led Zeppelin, but they ripped off a lot of people.
00:52:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
There's so many.
00:52:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, I don't know.
00:52:41
E Money Millionaire
The Beatles, but they they they played with editing, but their composition wasn't necessarily unique.
00:52:47
E Money Millionaire
like There are different ways to qualify and and you know say, like ah, it's good or it's not good.
00:52:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:52:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:52:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So, I mean, I guess you're making the point that not every try can be hit, a ah ah home run.
00:52:53
E Money Millionaire
um In the woodworking world, right?
00:52:59
E Money Millionaire
It can't be. And if you if you like we talk about the Titans, again, let's just take like the the big three of the 20th century, and this is...
00:53:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:53:08
E Money Millionaire
gross oversimplification, but let's take, you know, Eshrik, Nakashima, Maloof.
00:53:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:53:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:53:13
E Money Millionaire
How many pieces from each of them do you know right offhand that are like, these are groundbreaking pieces or, or even not even groundbreaking, brilliant pieces.
00:53:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yep.
00:53:23
E Money Millionaire
Eshrik staircase. Okay, great.
00:53:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like three, three from each of them.
00:53:25
E Money Millionaire
Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:53:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
One to one to three. Yeah.
00:53:28
E Money Millionaire
And they all made shit for 50 plus years.
00:53:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:32
E Money Millionaire
So three great pieces over a course of 50 years, that's one every 15 plus years, 15 to 17 years.
00:53:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see. I see. I see. Yeah.
00:53:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. That's a good point.
00:53:44
E Money Millionaire
So it's, it's hard to quantify of like, am I going to get worse? Because so much of the creative process is just getting lucky and catching a spark and riding, riding it through to the end and like seeing what happens.
00:54:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I still wonder where I am with that.
00:54:04
E Money Millionaire
I mean, I do too.
00:54:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'd still wonder if I have a few waiting for me or not.
00:54:06
E Money Millionaire
i there is There is no doubt in my mind that there is a there is a potential reality, maybe a split in the multiverse somewhere where I've made my best work and the rest of my work is just eh.
00:54:24
E Money Millionaire
And that's... i Here's what I know. I know that the going through the creative process in making objects is um emotionally, spiritually, and physically important to me.
00:54:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:54:39
E Money Millionaire
So if I've made my best work, if I've made something that stands up to the test of time as halfway decent, I've done something that the overwhelming majority of people have not done.
00:54:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And it it, first of all, it supports you living.
00:54:54
E Money Millionaire
Yes.
00:54:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like you make some money, which you need, and it brings intense joy to the owner.
00:54:55
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
00:54:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:54:59
E Money Millionaire
Yes. And it gives me a sense of purpose. It gives me a sense of of accomplishment. There are, I think we've talked about this on
Emotional Anchoring in Physical Creations
00:55:07
E Money Millionaire
the show before. If not, you and I certainly have.
00:55:09
E Money Millionaire
Like, there have been periods of time in my life where all of the money
00:55:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:55:16
E Money Millionaire
has, has been physically stolen from me that the, the, uh, way I was going to continue existing on this planet was in question that the reputation, that I had built had been taken or, or at a minimum, uh, tarnished by other folks.
00:55:37
E Money Millionaire
The one thing that people can never take away from you is your accomplishments in the way that you see them in the object. This is what I think part of the reason I got out of music and into objects is because like, look for anybody watching, that was my fucking desk for a number of years until I made this new one.
00:55:58
E Money Millionaire
This object was meaningful to me, the spiral desk. And it, every time I had like a moment of, I don't know what I'm doing with my life.
00:56:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:56:08
E Money Millionaire
I could look at that thing. I could physically touch it. It existed. Nobody could take away the fact that I made that thing.
00:56:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:56:14
E Money Millionaire
And that anchor point in the physical world in which we live was important to me emotionally.
00:56:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:56:19
E Money Millionaire
So whether or not I make anything great, I made a thing that that showed me that I was capable of creating value.
00:56:30
E Money Millionaire
And that is invaluable in my experience.
00:56:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That was valuable to you at a time you needed it.
00:56:37
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I often think about this topic about like, have you made your best meet have you made your best piece? And you know but being at the top of the mountain and whether you know the Nobel laureate curve that I talked about, I often think about it with music.
00:56:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
There are certain songs, and we've touched on this already, but there are certain songs you listen to that you just know that was the peak of that musician.
00:57:01
E Money Millionaire
Mm-hmm.
00:57:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
They were at the peak.
00:57:04
E Money Millionaire
Mm-hmm.
00:57:06
E Money Millionaire
Mm-hmm.
00:57:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Without a doubt, that is their best shit that they'll ever make. And it sends chills down your arms because to to know that someone's at that very fleeting, it's so fleeting, right?
00:57:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You know, as an artist that it's like catching lightning in a bottle, that that moment that you do your best shit is such a small period of time in your life.
00:57:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And you don't know when exactly when it'll come or where you are. But when you hear someone else, I can recognize when someone else is at their peak and it hits me.
00:57:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like I'll be listening to a song and I'm like, this is their best shit ever. What must it have felt like to be them in that moment? They must have just, maybe they didn't realize but i do.
00:57:57
E Money Millionaire
Well, this, I think this comes back to my question, right?
00:57:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It does.
00:58:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It does.
00:58:00
E Money Millionaire
Like, do we, do we, do we get to have that moment as furniture makers or is that res, is that reserved for, for, for things and experiences that are more, for lack of a better phrase, uh, uh, temporally locked, like, right.
00:58:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it does
00:58:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. I thought of that. Yeah.
00:58:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:58:16
E Money Millionaire
Like, like so in, in a space in a month, like the Nick Foles is of the world, a career backup.
00:58:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I
00:58:22
E Money Millionaire
Um, and and when wins Philly's first Super Bowl with a fucking brilliant performance, that is a moment like there was nobody had any doubts before or after that singular moment that that was the peak of his career.
00:58:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah. Coming to yeah.
00:58:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:58:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:58:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. There are these just moments in time, right?
00:58:39
E Money Millionaire
And so so how do how do you, yeah, how do you how do you accept that as a human being and be grateful that you had that moment versus consistently try to chase that dragon?
00:58:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
or what if... Yeah.
00:58:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. I don't know, Eric.
00:58:52
E Money Millionaire
That's a hard one.
00:58:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know if mine are behind me or in front of me or already half exceed... Like, I don't i don't know. But I think about it a lot. Every piece I ask myself... Is this good?
00:59:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Is this better? Or is this just me getting lazy and comfortable?
00:59:05
E Money Millionaire
Hmm.
00:59:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We have very similar answers to our questions.
00:59:11
E Money Millionaire
We do. We do. i don't, I don't, well, that's not, I was going to say, i don't worry about getting lazy, but that's not true. There are definitely, felt, I felt, yeah, they more recently I have felt moments of like,
00:59:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Soft, not lazy, but soft, right?
00:59:27
E Money Millionaire
Could I have done better? Could I have put in more work? But there's also ah limitation when you when you're stretched. This is what I'm contending with now. um When you're stretched across multiple things, you know when you're in a relationship, when you're when you're ah running a business on YouTube, when you're trying to create interesting work as a woodworker, when you're teaching in different locations,
00:59:54
E Money Millionaire
There's only so much mental energy you have and you can only expel so much and also maintain your sanity. So maybe it's a little bit soft, but was I able to make that piece and still feel a sense of satisfaction?
01:00:15
E Money Millionaire
and not sacrifice my well being to do so, then maybe that's good enough, or at least at this moment, maybe that's good enough.
01:00:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's going to have to be good enough because that's the value proposition you're putting on your own life at this point, at this age where you are. It's going to have to be good enough.
01:00:34
E Money Millionaire
Yeah. Yeah.
01:00:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's where you are.
01:00:36
E Money Millionaire
and and and And here's the the kind of other caveat to that. If you're doing commission work, which both of us do, um is the client going to be okay with that?
01:00:48
E Money Millionaire
And how do you how do you express that? Or do you express that?
01:00:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, I know the client's going to be okay with it. I know that for a fact. But I think we have a much higher bar for ourselves than the client has for us.
01:01:04
E Money Millionaire
I think that's true of you and I and probably a lot of people listening to this podcast, but I don't think that's true of everybody.
01:01:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
01:01:11
E Money Millionaire
That's not universal, right?
01:01:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well...
01:01:13
E Money Millionaire
the the There are a lot of lowest amount of effort to sell the thing is the amount of effort they're going to give.
01:01:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, look, if they're making a choice between having food on the table or not, I get it.
01:01:32
E Money Millionaire
yeah yeah that's not a judgment I'm not I'm not judging them for it I'm just I just want to put context to the conversation of it
01:01:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i get it. No, no, no, no. I get it. I see both sides. It's like if you have the luxury of pushing yourself, if you have that luxury, you can. And if you don't, you just got to get get it done and get it get the paycheck.
01:01:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see both sides of that coin.
01:01:48
E Money Millionaire
yeah
01:01:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:01:50
E Money Millionaire
And so if you're getting the paycheck and you're feeding your family and you're doing a thing that brings you joy, that is not sitting in a office lit by fluorescent bulbs all day long, but you're not doing groundbreaking work.
01:01:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:02:05
E Money Millionaire
Is that enough?
01:02:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It depends on who you
Responsibilities and Creative Excellence
01:02:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
are. For some people that is enough and for others it is not.
01:02:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my god. I almost forgot.
01:02:15
E Money Millionaire
ah we that we forgot that we were doing a goddamn podcast
01:02:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric. Yeah, I did.
01:02:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I did. It felt like we were at the bar together.
01:02:24
E Money Millionaire
let's see yep yep yep oh it is old school baby all right how about this how about this we said that we were going to do a second seg but we're already an hour into this goddamn conversation i think that we saved that second seg for the after show
01:02:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
oh my god. That was the old school, Eric. That.
01:02:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
01:02:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
After show it is.
01:02:42
E Money Millionaire
Okay. So on the after show, before we close out, just so you guys know, we're going to dip into some of my favorite mean YouTube comments that I've gotten recently, uh, because some of them are like genuinely mean. And I'm like, I want to know what this person was thinking. And some of them are just weird in a, in a funny way. And I want to get Paul's reaction to see what he thinks.
01:03:05
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
01:03:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I was going to bring mean comments that I get on my Instagram, but I don't get any.
01:03:10
E Money Millionaire
This motherfucker.
01:03:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So
01:03:11
E Money Millionaire
I was literally in the pre-show. I was like, it would be very funny if you balance that out with comments on your Instagram. And he was like, he literally said, i haven't gotten a mean comment in so long.
01:03:23
E Money Millionaire
I don't know. I don't know if I can pull one up. And he tried for like 10 fucking minutes and he couldn't find one.
01:03:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah I can't help it, man.
01:03:30
E Money Millionaire
You live in a bubble.
01:03:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I do. I live in a big bubble. Well, guys, you know, I, sorry, I almost, i really did forget we were recording this. I was just so in the moment talking Eric. Like i forgot this was a podcast episode. I did.
01:03:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm not even joking.
01:03:44
E Money Millionaire
that's That's what happens. We're we're genuinely friends, guys. this is This is when we have the post call, like the post app call, and we just, you know, this is what it is.
01:03:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
01:03:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This is it. This is what it sounds like.
01:03:54
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
01:03:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I hope you enjoyed our fifty fifty fifty episode with Paul and Eric.
01:03:58
E Money Millionaire
fifty fifty
01:03:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Maybe we'll do this as a series. you know Maybe we'll do it again with two different questions.
01:04:03
E Money Millionaire
I dig it. i liked I'll be honest. I like this format. I thought it was good. we really We really were vulnerable.
01:04:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It allowed you and me to dig a lot deeper and to express our true friendship as opposed to like keep it to so you know a framework and all that.
01:04:09
E Money Millionaire
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
01:04:15
E Money Millionaire
If this is by the way, if this is ah an app that you guys really enjoyed and you want to see more of this, um do us a favor. DMs are great. We love seeing the DMs. they're They're really, really wonderful to see how much you guys ah vibe with the show.
01:04:29
E Money Millionaire
Drop a comment in Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and because that helps the ratings of the show. That helps the show do better. And that also is a great place to tell us how you want to see the show move forward.
01:04:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:04:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Absolutely. And if you want the after show that Eric talked about with his main comments, the way to get the video feed in the after show is to just ah support us on Patreon. i The only way this podcast grows, because we don't advertise it, is by you telling your friends, this is we think this is valuable.
01:04:57
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
01:05:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So if you think it's valuable, and a lot of people express it to us that they do think it is, tell your friends. That's all.
01:05:08
E Money Millionaire
Yeah.
01:05:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Please.
01:05:08
E Money Millionaire
yeah
01:05:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it's It's the only way we we reach more people.
01:05:11
E Money Millionaire
and And the Patreon is the best way to support the show. But, you know, on this one particularly, there's no pretty people to look at. So I can't encourage you to watch the video feed of this particular episode.
01:05:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, you're pretty. You're pretty.
01:05:24
E Money Millionaire
Between the two of us, you know, we're not half bad looking.
01:05:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You're the... Well, you're the prettier one, let's be honest.
01:05:29
E Money Millionaire
i don't know.
01:05:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
01:05:30
E Money Millionaire
I don't know.
01:05:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, thanks, everyone. We'll stop arguing over who's prettier and we'll see...
01:05:35
E Money Millionaire
Thanks, friends.
01:05:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Because cause cause cause we cause we know it's Eric.
01:05:37
E Money Millionaire
tell Tell Paul. Tell Paul he's pretty. Okay, bye.
01:05:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Shut up.
01:05:39
E Money Millionaire
Bye.
01:05:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And we'll see in the after show. Bye!