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Episode 37 - Barstool Confessions #2 : Surprise Questions w/ Paul & Erik
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BY POPULAR REQUEST, ANOTHER EPISODE OF BARSTOOL CONFESSIONS. Pull up a bar stool next to us, have a beer, and talk about DESIGN, LIFE, PHILOSOPHY, and the emotional nature of CREATIVITY.
This episode gets back to our roots where Paul & Erik have a vulnerable and candid discussion on two SUPRISE QUESTIONS (each of us came up with 1 question and DID NOT tell the other person prior to the show) to answer in the moment, with no prep. Even though it was recorded as a podcast episode, it felt like the old days where the two of us were sitting together, enjoying a beer, and searching for meaning in our lives together.
To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon: http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467
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Transcript
Introduction and New Format Discussion
00:00:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You asked for it and we listened. This is another episode of Woodworking is Bullshit. I'm your host, Paul Jasper, scientist by day, woodworker by night.
00:00:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I'm here with my favorite co-host, Eric motherfucking Curtis, professional furniture maker and content creator.
00:00:34
SBe-rock
What's good play, boy?
00:00:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric.
00:00:40
SBe-rock
You really hesitated on that.
00:00:41
SBe-rock
what was it What was running through your head when you said professional?
00:00:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
If you want to know what, um, the answer was actually a blank.
00:00:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm not even joking.
00:00:51
SBe-rock
He is a professional at something. The world just is not sure what.
00:00:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
was like professional. What do I say? furniture maker and content creator. Oh, that's what, that's what I say. So I started by saying you asked for it. Uh, we listened.
00:01:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This is episode two of bar stool confessions.
00:01:10
SBe-rock
Round two, baby, let's go. The people love it when Paul reacts to shit and everything's not mapped out scientifically. It's just raw, pure, uncut emotion.
00:01:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, don't be a bitch.
00:01:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We, all right, so I should tell you all The first time Eric and I did this, it was a total experiment. It was us being back together at the bar, just talking about life.
00:01:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We each came with a surprise question and who knows where that led to. And we heard so many comments. There were more comments on that episode, I think, than any episode ever, really.
00:01:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And they all said the same thing. that we love the new format. Please, please, please do it again.
00:01:56
SBe-rock
Keep blowing it up so that Paul has to admit that sometimes i have a good fucking idea.
00:02:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You have a lot of good ideas. It's just that sometimes in time, you listen to me, little fuck.
00:02:07
SBe-rock
Sometimes they do tank. They do.
00:02:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sometimes winging it in the absence of all structure is not what we need.
00:02:17
SBe-rock
I'm not saying that it's always a good idea. I'm just saying that sometimes, like when you try something new, it can be a home run or it can be a strikeout.
00:02:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:02:27
SBe-rock
You got to be accepting of both.
00:02:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You fucking look at me through the video feed when you say that. Your eyes were darting around everywhere else except looking at me, which tells me something.
00:02:37
SBe-rock
I'm just, I'm speaking my truth out here, buddy boy.
00:02:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
Patreon and Merchandise Updates
00:02:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I want to say that recently it came to my attention, speaking of the video feed, that people didn't know there was a video feed. I had a whole bunch of people i went I actually I spoke at a at a convention, a woodworking convention, Jason Bourbon Moth's Patreon Summit.
00:03:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I was the invited speaker.
00:03:01
SBe-rock
Hell yeah.
00:03:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And we'll I'll tell you all about this in the after show. But several people there were like, there's a video feed. And i was like, yeah, there's a video
00:03:12
SBe-rock
Like our patrons didn't know that there was a video feed?
00:03:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah They weren't a patron, but they were a listener, a faithful listener of the podcast.
00:03:18
SBe-rock
Okay. Okay.
00:03:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I want to take a moment to make this crystal clear. There is a video feed ah to every single episode and it's on YouTube.
00:03:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And all you have to do to get it is become a patron at at least the $5 level, which is pretty darn cheap. If you do the $5 level, you get the video feed of every episode.
00:03:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And if you do the $10 level, you not only support us more, but you get the after show as well. And there's one more level, which is for really dedicated people that want like personal feedback or the ability to ask questions.
00:04:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's the $20 level. So I just, I realized I never really talked about, because we're not big no, we're not because.
00:04:06
SBe-rock
Yeah, we never pump the Patreon. and And you know what? i'm I'm glad that we don't, and I'm glad that people get value out of the show. And then if they find it um so valuable, they go and seek that out. That's wonderful. I really do appreciate that.
00:04:21
SBe-rock
I do, while we're here, while we're pumping the pod, Um, I want to let folks know that an episode that Paul and I have been tossing around for a while is to take the questions that come in from patrons and to do a Q and a based on those. So it's kind of like a barstool confession style episode where we have questions from people that then Paul and I react to and give our honest opinions about. So if you are, what, what levels did we say, uh, could submit questions?
00:04:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I think that was 10 and 20.
00:04:52
SBe-rock
10 and 20. So if you're a $10 or $20 a month patron, um send some messages, send some questions that like, and it it could be specific technique stuff. It could be woodworking philosophy. It could be business related.
00:05:05
SBe-rock
It could be just making fun of ah me, Paul, whoever it is, like Mary, even though she's not here, ah whatever the situation is, send some in so that we can react to them. Cause that would be a really fun episode.
00:05:17
SBe-rock
And, and we just dropped merch. We just dropped t-shirts over on Bonfire.
00:05:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mmm. We did.
00:05:24
SBe-rock
our Our shop is, of course, called Woodworking is Bullshit. We've got Aloha wood shirts. We've got ah and All Daddy Greenback shirts.
00:05:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Old Daddy Greenbacks.
00:05:35
SBe-rock
We've got, and of course, the OG, the Woodworking is Bullshit shirts. And I dropped some mugs up there, too. So if you guys are interested in going to purchase some merch, go do that. And that'd be a great way to support the pod, too.
00:05:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's... ah Eric, how did they find the link for that? Did we publish the link somewhere?
00:05:49
SBe-rock
Um, I, before this episode comes out, I will make sure that that is posted in our link tree on Instagram, but it's also just bonfire.com forward slash woodworking is bullshit.
00:05:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:06:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. So ah again, we haven't talked about any of this in like 36 episodes because you and I are not really into that for this this this thing.
00:06:07
SBe-rock
Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This thing's all about like authenticity, but like, look, if people want to see the video feed and they want the after show, I want them to have access to it.
00:06:12
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:06:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So we have
Barstool Confessions: Design Philosophy Debate
00:06:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
a Patreon. You can join it if you like, and that's what you'll get.
00:06:23
SBe-rock
Hundo P.
00:06:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. So back to what we are talking about today. This is episode two of Barstool Confessions. As I said, we had more comments about this format than any other episode where it's just Eric and i getting back to our roots and we decided to do the same thing where each of us comes with a question for the, for both of us really.
00:06:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And we did not tell each other what that question was, which always makes me a little nervous because I like that.
00:06:54
SBe-rock
I was going to say, how much more comfortable are you with it now this time around?
00:06:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Zero percent. Yeah.
00:07:02
SBe-rock
Even though people responded positively to it, you're still nervous about it.
00:07:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, it's good. Well, it's good because it doesn't really require that much prep because we're not discussing a topic in in any sort of academic or historical way where you have to look things up.
00:07:13
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:07:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This is really about you and I being honest with each other and just like having a conversation.
00:07:22
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
00:07:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So that that I can do off the cuff.
00:07:25
SBe-rock
Okay. Okay. Play it, boy. Will, do you want to dive in?
00:07:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Let's go.
00:07:31
SBe-rock
All right. So let me paint you a little picture. Let me tell you a story. Recently, as you well know, ah Sarah and I went up to Maine to go interview Aled Lewis, who was my teacher during the nine month in 2012, 2013 at CFC.
00:07:50
SBe-rock
You know this because we came in and stayed the night with you and Vicky and had a gay old time just hanging out, partying, drinking, drinking.
00:07:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
love that.
00:07:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love that.
00:07:56
SBe-rock
And just just being humans together.
00:07:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We had such a good time.
00:07:59
SBe-rock
We got some very average Italian food at a restaurant that your daughter was very upset that we had to go to.
00:08:04
SBe-rock
And it was hilarious. But that's neither here nor there. That's not the point of this question. So we went up to CFC. And um I sat down with Aled, who... he's been in the industry for 50 years. He started as an apprentice when he was 16.
00:08:21
SBe-rock
um He's 65, 66 now. He's done it all. He's built cabinets. He's done built-ins. He's done yeah construction work. He's done fine furniture. He's been in magazines. He's been in galleries.
00:08:33
SBe-rock
He has taught one of the premier furniture programs in the country. And the thing that he said to me in this 40 minute sit down interview that has not left my brain, that I don't think he said to me in the past, but maybe he did and I just wasn't ready to hear it, was good design is the articulation of one significant thought.
00:09:02
SBe-rock
I'll say that again because it was it's it's it's something to chew on. Good design is the articulation of one significant thought. And so this is kind of a two-part question reflecting on that idea, that philosophy.
00:09:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:09:18
SBe-rock
I see your face.
00:09:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i I don't know.
00:09:21
SBe-rock
So hit me. him out ah Hold on. Let me get there. So um I will say this. Everything that I've ever done,
00:09:32
SBe-rock
that's good, that's really good, that's been complimented as among my best pieces, I think falls into that philosophy.
00:09:44
SBe-rock
But it's not about me. This is about you. Do you agree or do you disagree with that statement?
00:09:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I disagree. I disagree very pointedly.
00:09:54
SBe-rock
Go on.
00:09:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i think that is an oversimplification that's fucking gimmicky and kitschy. And...
00:10:05
SBe-rock
Guns One significant thought.
00:10:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. um It's true that good design can have one... Sorry, it's the articulation of one thought. Is that what it said?
00:10:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. It's while that's true, that can be true. It's not, that's not, that's not false, but good design can be the articulation of multiple good, like the artic articulation of multiple thoughts.
00:10:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I would like to ah submit your honor exhibit one, which was Jen, Jen and my Koi tea box, which you are familiar with.
00:10:39
SBe-rock
Please.
00:10:42
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
00:10:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:10:43
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
00:10:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That design is a combination. First of all, it's a combination of function and art being swirled together. It's a functional artistic box.
00:10:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So to me, that's already but that's one design element. It's it's functional art. Number two, it used figured woods that looked like water. it was It was a quilted maple and it looked like ribbles of water.
00:11:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
To that, we married a Japanese aesthetic. Jen put koi fish and lily pads all over this box, right?
00:11:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You remember.
00:11:22
SBe-rock
Do you have this thing listed? I am thinking of it, but okay.
00:11:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's on my website. It's on my website. Yeah.
00:11:26
SBe-rock
I just want to pull it up so I can argue with you.
00:11:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Koi tea box. Koi tea box number two.
00:11:33
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
00:11:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um It has pyrography, which is basically illustrations on figured wood on this piece of function in art. Beyond that, it has the Japanese asanawa pattern mapped on the inside of the lid.
00:11:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It has copper accents. And I burned the inside yakisugi style with a torch. And oiled it up. So the interior is all black. It's all blackened. Just like you would... Shosuke-bon, a lot of people call that. But yakisugi is actually the correct term for you know the Japanese use of it.
00:12:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Not that I'm being a stickler for details. But so to me, that that particular piece, which is one of our best, without a doubt, Jen and i actually lament the fact that we'll never see that that piece again in our lives.
00:12:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That to me took... It took three or four different...
00:12:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
articulations or different thoughts and merge them together into one piece. So while what Alad said is not necessarily false, it's also not, that's a limiting definition.
00:12:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It doesn't have to be one.
00:12:43
SBe-rock
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
00:12:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It could be three.
00:12:45
SBe-rock
I think, okay, so so to that point, I think it's always going to be multiple, but in the same way that like, so using the elements and principles design as a guideline.
00:12:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It could be.
00:12:56
SBe-rock
Anytime you choose to use an element and manipulate it via the principles, you're making the choice to manipulate one element, but you're always going to incorporate other elements just because that's just the nature of how things work.
00:13:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yep.
00:13:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but say his statement again.
00:13:10
SBe-rock
It's the articulation of one significant thought. Okay. And so I...
00:13:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but that tee box that tbox has more than one significant thought.
00:13:19
SBe-rock
Sure, sure. I'm looking at it right now.
00:13:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it's got It's got two or three.
00:13:22
SBe-rock
The pyrography, the the the... But so, all right, I'm going to push back on you because I think the entire thought of this box is the coy scene on the exterior of the box. Okay.
00:13:38
SBe-rock
That, in in coordination with the wood that you chose, it does give this this flowy water feel to it as a very clear idea of what that imagery wants to be. And I think it's really successful at that.
00:13:53
SBe-rock
To your point of having a different pattern on the inside, it's a lovely pattern, but it like that's not adding or subtracting to the koi scene.
00:14:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I got it.
00:14:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I got it. No, I see. I see. I do. I see how you're using that argument to make your point correct. However, one could ease one could wait.
00:14:06
SBe-rock
It's not in addition to, it's just, it's, it's, it's extracurricular, right?
00:14:15
SBe-rock
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm okay.
00:14:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hold on.
00:14:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hold on.
00:14:18
SBe-rock
Hold on.
00:14:18
SBe-rock
Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I'm not done with my goddamn point yet, sir.
00:14:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, fine. Go ahead.
00:14:21
SBe-rock
We don't disagree a lot. So we're going to lean into this. Um, I don't, yeah, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to push Alad's idea.
00:14:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, I got more. got more.
00:14:30
SBe-rock
Because I, like you, have thought that there's always going to be more than one thought you know in an object. And that's what makes it interesting and good that there's more to explore and discover.
00:14:43
SBe-rock
But I think the in this box specifically, taking Aled's kind of idea out of it, there are three or four different thoughts. And when the box is closed, it's very clearly one thought.
00:14:55
SBe-rock
And when the box is open, it's a different thought.
00:14:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Agreed.
00:14:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Agreed.
00:14:59
SBe-rock
So those are two different maybe states of being for the box. And i don't know, as an entire composition, like looking at the second image you have on here where I'm seeing the top of the box and the inside of the box, so i'm not seeing the underside of the lid, everything feels congruous.
00:15:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All
00:15:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
all right. I get what you're saying.
00:15:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah so Look, so I don't disagree that you can say, hey, look, the koi fish being all over this is the main design thought. I see why you would say that.
00:15:20
SBe-rock
Everything feels sympathetic.
00:15:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But yeah one could easily make the case that the design thought was really about the tea.
00:15:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's a beautiful tea box. It holds bagged tea and it holds loose leaf tea. That was the design thought, to make something beautiful that served such a perfect function for the tea drinker.
00:15:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That was the design thought. and Someone could say that just as easily. So in essence, what I'm trying to get at is like, it's so subjective how you view this thing.
00:16:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You could say the, core you could say, oh, the, the Koi was the one design thought.
00:16:06
SBe-rock
Well, that absolutely. Yes.
00:16:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You could easily say the function was the one design thought. So this is a case of even when you're now, hold on.
00:16:14
SBe-rock
But then then I think we could also...
00:16:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Now it's my turn. Yeah. it's like this case of even when you're wrong, you're right. It's like, that's why i don't love, I don't love that statement. It's because of like, yeah, you can shift and play word games to make it fit anything.
00:16:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But to me, this piece was more than one design. artic It articulated one more than one thought at the same time.
00:16:40
SBe-rock
I think that's that's fair. um And to put Aled's statement in the context of his work, he is a minimalist through and through. I don't know that he would describe himself as a minimalist, but his his furniture is very much about like a single line, a single joint, a single point of accentuation.
00:16:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, that may be true for him.
00:16:59
SBe-rock
So I think for him and his philosophy, that absolutely holds true.
00:17:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, let me tell you why I think this holds true for me. I've noticed in my life, Eric, and this is this is not just woodworking. This is in my my science life as well. I have realized that, and this took me a long time to notice about myself. I'm almost and ah embarrassed how long it took me to observe this trait about myself.
00:17:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I naturally gravitate towards multidisciplinary. I gravitate towards multidisciplinary in woodworking.
00:17:28
SBe-rock
sir
00:17:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You can see, right?
00:17:34
SBe-rock
Sure, sure.
00:17:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's like I'm all over the place.
00:17:35
SBe-rock
Copper, brass, engraving, carving, shishugi, all the things.
00:17:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Exactly. And then it dawned on me that that's exactly my science job too. I got a degree in like a pure discipline, like i mean like the you know molecular and cellular immunology. Like I was like biologist in the lab, right? That was my that was my first my first focus.
00:17:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But then when I did my postdoc, I said, i don't want to just do classic reductionist biology. I want to combine it with computer science.
00:18:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so when I got my postdoc, I only applied to laboratories that swirled biology and computer science together. And I had no experience in that at all.
00:18:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I had the cojones to apply 10 labs did research. that did only computer science mixed with biology. And I told them all, I wrote to all of them and I said, I know I don't have experience, a ton of experience in this or any, um but I assure you I'm well-trained.
00:18:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I can learn quick and I will absolutely be able to like, ah you know, I'm a computer child. I had computers my whole life. i coded and stuff, you know just, just not professionally, but on the side, I know I can do this and I know this is the right field for me.
00:18:56
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
00:18:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And nine said, no, And one said yes.
00:19:02
SBe-rock
It only takes one, dog.
00:19:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and all And all you need is one. And that started my career.
00:19:05
SBe-rock
Yep, yep.
00:19:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And since then, I have been for the last 17 years in this multidisciplinary field of part biology, part computer science, and part mathematics.
00:19:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And that's what I do.
00:19:18
SBe-rock
Hmm.
00:19:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I make mathematical models of biological systems and simulate them. And it dawned on me that I am a multidisciplinary seeker in every part of my life. It's the it the woodworking life and even the science life.
00:19:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I think that's, for me, why multiple multiple thoughts get manifested in each or articulated in each piece for me.
00:19:43
SBe-rock
So,
00:19:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I think Aled is different. know Perhaps to him, a reductionist approach, one thought at a time is really his sweet spot. How about you? Where do you fall on that?
00:19:54
SBe-rock
so. so
00:19:58
SBe-rock
I think I split the difference between you two in that like you and I are very similar. I'm not necessarily multidisciplinary though. I think I am just in my creative practices in general, I've always been like,
00:20:13
SBe-rock
You know, I'm a musician, I'm ah um' a woodworker, i'll I'll dabble in painting, I'll dabble in clay, um you know, all all of the different media.
00:20:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Soap.
00:20:22
SBe-rock
But it always, it always, and soap, whatever, it is plaster. It always comes back to woodworking for me. So it's not necessarily multidisciplinary. It is um multimedia to an extent. Like very rarely do I make an object that doesn't have something that's not wood in it.
00:20:40
SBe-rock
But what i reflecting on that statement, and maybe maybe it's unfair, my bias to toward Alad because he's such a ah towering figure in my development as a woodworker. So I think I probably do have a bias to um take what he says with extra gravity.
00:21:01
SBe-rock
But um let's take the the the whiskey cabinet, for example, the the carved whiskey cabinet. The entire idea for that cabinet was to make a vehicle, make a canvas to express this um yearning for...
00:21:26
SBe-rock
physical touch, physical interaction, physical relationships when we were at the peak of COVID, when nobody was allowed to be within six feet of each other.
00:21:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I remember that.
00:21:35
SBe-rock
And the rest of the cabinet, and I think this is partially where I developed this idea or this aesthetic of like the grains have to be so muted, so straight that it's not distracting because the cabinet is simply a canvas for that carving and for the idea that was imbued in that carving.
00:21:53
SBe-rock
And so there is no other significant thought in that cabinet outside of the carving in the, the, um, emotional experience that we all as humans were having in that moment. Similarly, the, uh, pochette cabinet that I made for our friend, Kristen, um,
00:22:10
SBe-rock
The entire cabinet is a focus on the ponchette. Like it is a vehicle to display the ponchette. Now, the form itself is lovely. It's it's but but it's white so that it contrasts the ponchette and the ponchette inside stands out and feels ah lively and human and illuminated.
00:22:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, that's that's the analogy I was drawing to the purpose of the tea box was to serve tea in the most beautiful fashion possible.
00:22:38
SBe-rock
Sure, sure, but that's that's the function versus the aesthetic.
00:22:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But then, yeah, but you said that you said, well, you said the one articulation thought was about the coy scene. Do you see what how I mean?
00:22:46
SBe-rock
Okay, and that's... that's
00:22:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, do you see what I mean? It's a little subjective how you pick the little one. You know what I mean?
00:22:51
SBe-rock
but But design and art is always subjective.
00:22:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, go on, go on, go on, go on.
00:22:53
SBe-rock
This is the frustrating part of it. so but So I think to me, anytime that I develop a piece, what I do now, and I was doing this before he said this, is i try to get to the core of what the idea is and focus on the one idea.
00:23:10
SBe-rock
And all of the other design decisions come about if they fit the idea and if they if they push the idea forward, right?
00:23:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, to supplement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:18
SBe-rock
If they highlight it.
00:23:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
To highlight it, supplement it.
00:23:19
SBe-rock
And if they and if they don't, if it's distracting to it, then it goes out. um and And so I think that's where I agree with that piece.
00:23:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I get that.
00:23:28
SBe-rock
Now, I don't know if I came to that conclusion independently or I've been so influenced by Aled over the years.
00:23:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, let me let me ask you a question.
00:23:36
SBe-rock
Shoot.
00:23:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
let's say you go into a gallery or like an art museum and you see, you know, paintings are particularly good at conveying a thought or an articulation, right?
00:23:38
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
00:23:48
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
00:23:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You've seen paintings that like hit you like a ton of bricks and you're like, wow, that's what that really is about that.
00:23:51
SBe-rock
Sure.
00:23:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right. Wouldn't it be phenomenal if the artist could engineer in two main points rather than just one. let's say the main point was Let's say the main point was about like plastics and the environment, and it was ah it was a statement about plastic utilization and the environment.
00:24:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But what if what if that artist was so good that they could actually bundle a second statement that is juxtaposed to that first, equi-important, right?
00:24:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
at the same time that didn't take away from the first statement and stood by itself in the second, like two thoughts being articulated together. Like to me, that's the next level.
00:24:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I mean, sure. One thing is fine. And we're, we can all like kind of pick one thing to highlight, but what if you were good enough to elaborate two thoughts, Eric?
00:24:54
SBe-rock
Okay. All right. all right. First of all, that's, that's, that's totally fair.
00:24:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, isn't, isn't that the bar? Like,
00:24:59
SBe-rock
That is, and I, and I don't disagree with that. This is, we've talked about like what I call continuing revelation, like many a time in the past, right?
00:25:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, oh oh man, right?
00:25:07
SBe-rock
The idea that like you see a thing and it means one thing, and then you get closer, you interact, you play around with, you spend time with it. And it means a different thing. That's huge. That's so hard. It's so fucking hard to do.
00:25:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it's it's yeah It is.
00:25:18
SBe-rock
And, and, and when you do it, you recognize that it's something rare and you've done something really, really well. But, The one area I'm going to push back on you against is the idea that it's necessarily better because it might just be a different approach.
00:25:33
SBe-rock
so let me let me let me let me let me say this.
00:25:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, all right, all right. Maybe it's not better.
00:25:36
SBe-rock
let me let me say that the um I've been sitting with the idea of short stories a lot recently for some reason, and I don't really know why.
00:25:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah What?
00:25:43
SBe-rock
I know, I know. But listen, when I'm sitting in bed, my brain goes all kinds of places.
00:25:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What?
00:25:48
SBe-rock
And like, this is this is the multi multi-disciplinary like idea of like, who like how how do you pair...
00:25:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's like, so, what the fuck?
00:25:57
SBe-rock
like a story down to its essential details and like have a, have an emotional punch. And there's, um, you might know it's largely accredited to Hemingway, even though he probably didn't write it.
00:26:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:26:10
SBe-rock
The, the famous six word story, um, for sale, baby shoes, never worn.
00:26:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, never heard that.
00:26:17
SBe-rock
You don't know that? Okay. So so this is, it first appeared, I think when Hemingway was like a child.
00:26:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No.
00:26:22
SBe-rock
So it's like, there's evidence that he probably didn't write it. um But for some reason, it's largely accredited to him. But in like in serial short stories, it's it's considered like one of the best, like, I think it's called flash fiction, um like the best, like short, short stories you can.
00:26:42
SBe-rock
And so it's just six words. And it just says for sale, colon, baby shoes, comma, never worn. And in those six words, you have this, like, it it creates this whole universe of, like, the story of these people selling these baby shoes. Like, you can pull in all of the details there, and it has an emotional impact in six words.
Design Simplicity vs Complexity
00:27:04
SBe-rock
Now, now, now, I'm not, listen, I'm not saying it's a perfect story.
00:27:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know. of here with that.
00:27:09
SBe-rock
What I'm saying is, in that instance, the significance is the single thought,
00:27:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
For sale. For sale. For sale. Large stained bloomers. Worn many times.
00:27:21
SBe-rock
it's not
00:27:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Dude, that that that that conjures that that kind that conjures even more stories.
00:27:22
SBe-rock
That's not the fucking point. have Have a heart, sir. Have a heart.
00:27:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
okay go ahead
00:27:32
SBe-rock
ah The point is, is the like in that instance, in six words, you made a story. you you told one thing. You told ah ah one portion of one existence.
00:27:44
SBe-rock
So the the idea not in that moment is not necessarily to have multiple iterations that you can continue to explore and sit with. But if you write a whole fucking novel, you better have more than one idea. Otherwise, people are going to get bored after the first chapter.
00:27:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Sorry. What was the point?
00:28:02
SBe-rock
The point is i want to shy away from making a hierarchy of like one significant thought articulating that is good. Articulating two thoughts is better.
00:28:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, okay.
00:28:13
SBe-rock
I think they're just different goals.
00:28:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. i Sorry. I will retract that. It's not better. It's harder to do. I'd say it's harder to accomplish.
00:28:21
SBe-rock
Oh, sure. Sure, sure, sure.
00:28:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
that that I didn't mean better.
00:28:23
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:28:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I guess maybe I meant more impressive in a way because it's so hard to articulate two thoughts in one piece that don't stomp on each other and don't interfere with each other, but rather compliment each other.
00:28:24
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:28:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And both being sort of profound and and revealing themselves separately. Like I haven't seen that very much, but maybe I've seen it a time or two, but when it happens, i'm like, whoa, shit, this person really is good.
00:28:43
SBe-rock
Well,
00:28:46
SBe-rock
I think that that requires a level of dexterity that takes a really long time to develop. And I think that's why that's why I can concede that maybe it's like better, quote unquote, but it takes more skill for sure.
00:28:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right. Well,
00:28:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. So to to me, that's like the goal somewhere down the line. So when you said what Al had said about, ah you know, great design is the articulation of a single thought.
00:29:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
To me, that's a very limiting definition of great design.
00:29:10
SBe-rock
Okay, that's it. Sure, sure. So let me let me put some other context into that as well. Consider that Aled is, at this point in his career, a teacher, like mostly full-time.
00:29:23
SBe-rock
And so he's dealing with students who don't really have experience or understand the elements, principles of design.
00:29:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:29:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes, I would teach students that too.
00:29:29
SBe-rock
And so... you know exactly what happens with students and we all did it in the beginning of our careers.
00:29:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yep.
00:29:34
SBe-rock
We just throw every fucking thing at this piece and then it gets so loud, so busy that nobody knows what the fuck you're trying to do.
00:29:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:29:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes. No, Eric, you're so right. That is such the right thing to tell a student. I agree entirely. Yes. Yes.
00:29:47
SBe-rock
Okay, we got we got all the way back around then. Good.
00:29:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, no, you know you gave me the perspective that this is really about teaching, and that makes a ton of sense if you're teaching. yeah new Yeah.
00:29:56
SBe-rock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:57
SBe-rock
I mean, you're not you're not going to tell Wendell Castle that one significant thought is the important thing. And he's like, fuck off, dog. Like, hold my beer. You know, that's but fucking Jerry from Iowa might might need a little bit more handholding.
00:30:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
00:30:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Jerry from Iowa. And before we before we end on this question, ah can we come back to the fact that you're lying in bed thinking about short stories?
00:30:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
For all y'all out there who thought Eric's like daydreaming about like his girl or like something woodworking.
00:30:28
SBe-rock
Listen, buddy, listen.
00:30:34
SBe-rock
Nah, nah, dog.
00:30:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
He's like, what, what are the elements of a good story?
00:30:36
SBe-rock
I'm like, I'm like, huh, I wonder how Hemingway did what he did besides raging alcoholism.
00:30:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
oh got
00:30:44
SBe-rock
ah so This is what happens at like two o'clock in the morning when my brain won't shut off.
00:30:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um my God.
00:30:50
SBe-rock
It's bad, guys.
00:30:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know.
00:30:51
SBe-rock
It's rough.
00:30:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know if that's a beautiful thing or a scary thing. i
00:30:55
SBe-rock
It's not neither. it's not neither
00:30:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, but you know what the truth is? I often, when I go to bed, I often use the first five to 10 minutes to think about like a design problems in the shop or like stuff like that.
00:31:07
SBe-rock
Oh, see, this is this is where, like, this is the joy of going to work and then having this thing that you can do and obsess over. And it's a fun thing. That's not giving you stress. And then it's like, we were talking before the call and today was just a fucking, like a pile of guano on a fucking, like, you know, like it was, it was a disaster of a day.
00:31:34
SBe-rock
And so thinking about like, if I were to think about design, solutions in bed, i would literally never sleep.
00:31:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. Well.
00:31:44
SBe-rock
So I think about, uh, you know, how Poe wrote the Raven or died in a gutter, you know, I think i did.
00:31:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, my God, Eric. Eric, what the fuck?
00:31:53
SBe-rock
I did a deep dive into, am big meter the other night.
00:31:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Iambic pentameter or whatever the fuck?
00:31:59
SBe-rock
Yeah. Yep. Yep. This is what happens. I'm a fucking nerd dog. I don't know what to tell you.
00:32:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Eric, I'm very sorry to hear that.
00:32:06
SBe-rock
Oh, it's fun. um So let's see. ah Let's let's before we dive into the next question.
00:32:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, I have a good one.
00:32:14
SBe-rock
i I want to, I believe you. I want to take a moment to thank our Lord and Savior, William T. Burkle, for sponsoring this podcast. I will say this.
00:32:26
SBe-rock
I got the opportunity to go out there a couple of weeks ago and actually hang out with Bill for the morning and see the operation. The store is like, it's tucked away in this little tiny corner of a place.
00:32:39
SBe-rock
He's got everything you could possibly want. Uh, and if you don't have it, he will get it for you. And like to the point where he's got local material that he's milling up and drying himself, um, and, and selling in the stacks. He's got slabs. He's got dimensional lumber. He's got Fez tool. He's got, uh, Maffel. He's got like all ah and adhesives, router bits. It's, it's a, i don't want to name any other franchises that would be, um in bad form during an ad read for, uh, WTB. But if you can think of what those,
00:33:12
SBe-rock
woodworking stores look like. It's like that.
00:33:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric, is it more special? and So it sounds more specialized, is it?
00:33:20
SBe-rock
It's... it's i I think it's, it's got everything the hobbyist needs. Um, and if there is something that I need that, um, you know, but I could call up Bill and ask him to get it and he would get it for me.
00:33:37
SBe-rock
Um, and, and even I'll give you ah an operation that, uh, nobody else has agreed to do, but, but Bill didn't even hesitate. This is great. So when this is a little, little, you know, Sarah story. So when Sarah and I started dating about six months in,
00:33:52
SBe-rock
um I was cognitively pretty confident that we were going to get married. Emotionally, it took a while for me to accept that. But like, so I bought, I bought a slab.
00:34:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm sorry, what? Six months?
00:34:05
SBe-rock
Uh, and it was a slab that I intended to make into a piece for her. If, and when we got married, uh, I called my shot. It was like a full, full court shot right there.
00:34:17
SBe-rock
I just had a vibe, you know, I had a feeling I didn't,
00:34:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You didn't tell me this, you bitch.
00:34:21
SBe-rock
Listen, bitch, some things I play close to the chest until it's fucking time to ride. All right, baby. Well, let me just fucking have this buddy boy. So anyway, I've got this fucking slab now. And now my thought is I want to turn it into a chest of drawers for her as like ah a wedding present.
00:34:38
SBe-rock
And I'm comfortable saying this on the podcast, A, because she doesn't listen to it anymore, and b ah and B, because I did drunkenly accidentally spill the beans to her, but I haven't given her all the design details yet.
00:34:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:34:51
SBe-rock
Anyway, I want to split this slab in half and use the front veneer for the shelves and then have that echo on the back.
00:35:00
SBe-rock
But the slab's like 36 inches wide, so I can't i can't split that myself.
00:35:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
what What is it? what What species?
00:35:05
SBe-rock
It's walnut.
00:35:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:35:06
SBe-rock
um And so I asked a couple of folks if they'd be willing to like resaw it, knowing that I would lose a lot of material on there. was out And I talked to Bill and he was like, you just fucking come by and and then we'll knock it out, man.
00:35:19
SBe-rock
So Bill's my guy.
00:35:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see. Yeah, it's that kind of play. yeah He's that kind of dude.
00:35:23
SBe-rock
yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
He'll just like do what he's got to do to make it happen.
00:35:24
SBe-rock
yeah hundred percent
00:35:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:35:27
SBe-rock
So go support William Teresa Burkell and WTV Woodworking in Huntington Valley, Pennsylvania. Thanks, Bill.
00:35:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
00:35:36
SBe-rock
All right.
00:35:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Thanks, Bill.
00:35:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. Are you ready for question two?
00:35:38
SBe-rock
What do you got, cowboy?
00:35:41
SBe-rock
Oh, I was born ready.
00:35:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know if you were.
00:35:45
SBe-rock
Wow.
00:35:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. So, Eric... On the topic of authenticity, this is something you and I talk about a lot, right?
00:35:51
SBe-rock
Oh, boy. Okay.
00:35:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Would you say that authenticity is important to the two of us?
00:36:01
SBe-rock
I mean, 100%. hundred percent Like personally, professionally, ah public facing.
00:36:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:36:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right. I would say it's like a cornerstone of how you and i want to live our lives and choose to live our lives.
00:36:07
SBe-rock
How do you mean?
00:36:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right.
00:36:12
SBe-rock
Yes.
00:36:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We don't, we don't beat around like, and if there's small talk, like you and I tend to let's just go straight into the deep end of the pool.
00:36:13
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:36:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, cause that's where the interesting shit's at.
00:36:19
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:36:20
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:36:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right.
00:36:23
SBe-rock
100%. Like, what's the point of fucking around?
00:36:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. All right. So I just wanted to like set the stage on that because I think no, no, no.
00:36:30
SBe-rock
I feel like I'm going to get called out for something right now. I don't know how to feel about this.
00:36:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
no no no no no no no So you and I are there about authenticity. Now, let's switch gears completely. Okay. And let's think about our social media as a separate entity completely. So social media, you and I have, have have um we've engaged in social media, you more than me, but like,
00:36:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We've I mean, for for you, for example, your whole life revolves around it now.
Impact of Social Media on Careers
00:37:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You have YouTube and um that your YouTube led to income and that led to being able to sell ah your sorry. Even before YouTube, you were selling more items and pricing it higher because you had a growing, healthy audience who knew about you and was buying you as the artist in your work.
00:37:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and endorsements and even Sarah, right? came And like your Emmy, right?
00:37:21
SBe-rock
Sure. Sure.
00:37:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Your Emmy award and your impending marriage, right?
00:37:23
SBe-rock
Sure.
00:37:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, I mean, there's no doubt, there's no doubt how social media has just played this incredible role in our in our lives too.
00:37:27
SBe-rock
Yeah, that all came about from social media.
00:37:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
For me, it it like Copper Pig, like defined my whole last seven, eight years of woodworking.
00:37:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like this is no small thing here.
00:37:43
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:37:46
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:37:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
This is big. So my question, and and so, sorry, one more statement before my question. So I would say that you've been very successful at social media.
00:37:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like you've become quite well known, certainly on Instagram and YouTube and and you have two Netflix shows. So like you've yeah and and an Emmy, I'll say it again.
00:38:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like you've you've been very successful, like, you know, in terms of like notoriety even. um
00:38:14
SBe-rock
Sure.
00:38:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And we went to, by the way, the listeners may not remember this, but Eric and i went to a local bar in my town.
00:38:22
SBe-rock
ah You motherfucker.
00:38:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And we're sitting at the bar and having a drink and the bartender takes a strange look at Eric and ah furrows her brow and says,
00:38:33
SBe-rock
It was so uncomfortable.
00:38:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Are you from that show? And when he sort of kind of nodded yes sheepishly, she screamed.
00:38:48
SBe-rock
She literally fucking screamed.
00:38:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I mean screamed. The entire restaurant turns around. ah Everyone at the bar.
00:38:56
SBe-rock
Stop dead silent.
00:38:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
every The whole place pretty much.
00:38:57
SBe-rock
like Like a high school movie in the cafeteria.
00:38:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes. ah cameras came out, people started taking pictures. The woman next to me at the bar leans over and goes, is he a big deal? Should I know who he is?
00:39:07
SBe-rock
and It was so uncomfortable.
00:39:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so I would say there's a level of of somewhat fame and notoriety that has come with your social media presence. So Eric, my question is, is authenticity compromised in any part by the pursuit of fame with social media?
00:39:30
SBe-rock
Yes. not Not even a hesitation. Of course it is. Because here's here's why I say that. um
00:39:42
SBe-rock
I do my best to be authentically who I am. and And I think on the whole, if you were to take a ah big picture look, you, I think we could all assess, like, I don't think you would say that I'm a different person on camera than I am in real life.
00:39:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
no
00:39:59
SBe-rock
If anything, I'm a little bit more um aware of, like, I'm a little bit more cautious.
00:40:07
SBe-rock
I try to, like, be a little bit more inclusive. I could say some shit off the cuff to you that I would not say on the internet. um But on the whole, I'm i'm the same person.
00:40:20
SBe-rock
But...
00:40:22
SBe-rock
There are days where you just you're just not feeling it. you know There are days where you just you're like today was a fucking, it was a day. There was a lot of just business things that were happening that we talked about kind of pre-call. There was just a lot of stressors. There were a lot of distractions.
00:40:39
SBe-rock
And at the same time, I'm trying to film a video and And, you know, i got in there at like 930, 10 a.m. and I was excited to like dive into this project and get shit done.
00:40:51
SBe-rock
And so like in scene one, I'm animated, I'm caffeinated, I'm excited.
00:40:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:40:56
SBe-rock
And then like start doing another thing and I film another scene and I got like one call and it was like a little distracted, but fine. And then by the third scene, You know, you're you're like your head somewhere else and you're trying to remember, like, what are you even saying in this video?
00:41:10
SBe-rock
So what ends up happening is you just have to fake it. And why I. That is maybe by definition insincere.
00:41:22
SBe-rock
But also I would posit that that's not that different from teaching. Like you show up to a class on Monday morning, you're sick, you're tired, you just got your heart broken, you're hung over, whatever the situation is.
00:41:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:41:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah. You gotta. Yep. Yep.
00:41:35
SBe-rock
And those people are there.
00:41:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Hmm.
00:41:36
SBe-rock
They paid you money to have a good experience and you're going to give them a good experience, damn it.
00:41:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:41:41
SBe-rock
And it's not not who you are, but it's not who you are in that very moment. And so I think it can become very easily something that compromises your authenticity because it's, it's so easy, especially when you're making the money that like some of our friends are making on social media to just keep doing the thing that makes money because you never know how long it's going to be there.
00:42:09
SBe-rock
And so you can,
00:42:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How do you avoid that? How do you, Eric, avoid that was that trap?
00:42:16
SBe-rock
i I don't make as much money as them.
00:42:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but I mean, let's say you did.
00:42:19
SBe-rock
So it's.
00:42:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What would happen?
00:42:23
SBe-rock
oh
00:42:27
SBe-rock
That's a good question. I don't know. I if we're if we're being authentic in this moment, I don't know the answer to that. It is a thing I think about often and it's a thing I was thinking about today.
00:42:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:42:40
SBe-rock
or maybe not today because of the shit day it was, but like yesterday, a couple of days ago, the the the pattern that I've seen to have found myself in in on YouTube is my views are down, but my views are consistent.
00:42:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:42:55
SBe-rock
And what's happening now is the people who show up for my videos are there like every other Saturday, thicker than 20,000 to 30,000 views in in the first 72 hours.
00:43:13
SBe-rock
And whether it gets more than that, it might tap out at 28,000 or it might hit 500,000. know. But when they blow but when they blow up it's it's not the people I necessarily want to see the videos.
00:43:24
SBe-rock
So I'm pretty happy with this kind of small niche of of people who are around, which are the people who are here to like the video I put out this this past weekend is a video about the cabinet I just made for Sarah.
00:43:42
SBe-rock
And it's a very... It's not like overly emotional or raw, but it, but it is an emotional video. Like it's me saying like, I've been bad at relationships in the past and this person loves me and I love her. And so I made her a cabinet and cause that's, that's how I express love and gratitude to, to people.
00:44:05
SBe-rock
um
00:44:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Is that your love language?
00:44:07
SBe-rock
Oh, a hundred percent.
00:44:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Gift giving?
00:44:08
SBe-rock
A hundred percent.
00:44:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It is?
00:44:09
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:44:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:44:10
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:44:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But I feel like...
00:44:10
SBe-rock
And, and gift giving and acts of service.
00:44:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i Really? Cause I feel like you're pretty good with like, um, ah like a physical touch and words of affirmation.
00:44:13
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:44:19
SBe-rock
oh that's that's how i receive. Yeah. No, I'm a big cuddler.
00:44:25
SBe-rock
um But yeah, like the the thing...
00:44:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Huh.
00:44:31
SBe-rock
Like, I'm not necessarily great at remembering to like stop and get flowers or like, you know, get a card or like I loathe Valentine's Day. Like, why can't we make Valentine's Day February 16th when everything is 10 percent the cost that it was two fucking days ago?
00:44:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:44:49
SBe-rock
You know, but I will take a month out of my time and make you a piece that you'll have for the rest of your life.
00:44:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, that means more than than a box of chocolates.
00:44:57
SBe-rock
That's what I think.
00:44:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I think so too.
00:44:58
SBe-rock
That's what I think. But but so to take that type of idea, that type of emotion and put it on the Internet, that's a vulnerable place to be.
00:45:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it sure is.
00:45:08
SBe-rock
And so I think having that type of audience who is there for those types of videos, even though they're different from the normal types of videos I put out, I really appreciate.
00:45:19
SBe-rock
And those are the the videos and the moments that anchor me to not um not fake it. Because when you fake it, those people get bored and go away.
00:45:30
SBe-rock
as As well they should, and that's not a critique of them. like they are They are there for you in your journey and to learn what you know.
00:45:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Do you think
00:45:39
SBe-rock
And the moment it starts to feel like you're selling something to them, they're like I don't know that I can trust you anymore.
00:45:47
SBe-rock
Yeah. And I think that's reasonable.
00:45:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it's very it's difficult when more money gets involved though, isn't it? That's a difficult thing.
00:45:52
SBe-rock
Of course it is. Yeah.
00:45:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:45:53
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:45:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
how How do you navigate that?
00:45:56
SBe-rock
Well, and I think we all get it wrong sometimes. I think that's an important thing to remember as a as a consumer of social media is that that we are humans.
00:46:08
SBe-rock
And there are people who will make the decision to just go after the dollar. But there are also those of us who are just trying to figure out how to fucking make a living making objects.
00:46:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and
00:46:21
SBe-rock
And social media is an avenue to do that. And so what that means is like, sometimes we're going to, we're going to make the wrong choice. And that's easier to do when you run. and I don't want to sound self-pitying here.
00:46:36
SBe-rock
So forgive me if it comes out this way and push back against me if it does, but. it's that's easier to do when you have one client who the thing didn't work out, the relationship kind of soured and just like the thing happened and you can just take it off your website.
00:46:53
SBe-rock
You never tell anybody about it. And it goes away after a couple of years, you might feel that like that, like pit in the the belly of your stomach.
00:46:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, but, but this is so public.
00:47:00
SBe-rock
That's like, it's uncomfortable, but there's nothing that I do that isn't public facing.
00:47:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see.
00:47:06
SBe-rock
And so anything that I do, 30,000 watch it.
00:47:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see.
00:47:10
SBe-rock
And then it can become a thing where like, so I have some, and I'm obviously the space that I exist is so small comparatively, but I do have a lot of sympathy for, for some of those people who have made mistakes really publicly.
00:47:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:47:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, I get it. I get it.
00:47:25
SBe-rock
And it's like, how do you How do you judge their humanity based on one moment?
00:47:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
a single moment of a single video without.
00:47:32
SBe-rock
Yeah, yeah. Now, if now that said that said, if you continue to do it, you're a shitbag because you're just doing the same thing over and over and claiming...
00:47:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:47:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right, right, right, right, right. where Yeah. But where's the grace? Like we give our friends grace when they say things that are like a little bit like a lot and you just kind of let it go.
00:47:43
SBe-rock
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Cause you're like, Oh, it was a moment.
00:47:47
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:47:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
know, who knows what they meant? Yeah.
00:47:49
SBe-rock
yeah It's like, yeah, every everybody gets two, man. Everybody gets two. You do it once, ah, poor decision. You do it twice, hey, maybe we learn from it.
00:47:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:47:59
SBe-rock
The third time you do it you're like, ah, this is a habit now.
00:47:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
00:48:02
SBe-rock
Okay.
00:48:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All Follow question for you. Has, you know, you have a lot of fans, like people who like love your channel, tune in every, like you said, and love your work and love like your, your, your personality, who you are. I'm a fan shit.
00:48:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Um,
00:48:18
SBe-rock
we I was a fan first, in fairness.
00:48:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah Um, has that, ah do you ever ask yourself whether that gives you an inflated sense of self or ego that maybe you wouldn't otherwise have?
00:48:36
SBe-rock
I'm sure it does. But um maybe it's the little sibling in me. But um I am also very aware of the places in which I'm not seen as good enough.
00:48:55
SBe-rock
And maybe maybe this is also like, you know, I my my oldest sibling was is my sister growing up and and she's a like, I will fucking I will fuck your shit up if you tell me that women are not as good enough as men. You know, like she is one of one of my favorite memories of my sister was a dude tried to hit on her in eighth grade in the hallway. I was in sixth grade.
00:49:18
SBe-rock
And I saw her grab him by the lapels of his fucking polo shirt and slam him up against the locker. And she was like, if you ever fucking touch me again, i will kill you. And I was like, i was like, that's my sister, bitches.
00:49:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love that.
00:49:31
SBe-rock
Get the fuck out here.
00:49:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love that.
00:49:32
SBe-rock
Fuck off me.
00:49:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I, I, I absolutely.
00:49:33
SBe-rock
What the fuck you gonna do? So like, it is, it is a little bit that kind of attitude, right? Of, um, i I am aware of the places, namely the art world, but also sometimes the furniture world, the fine furniture world, the gallery world, where I am seen as a YouTuber rather than ah um somebody who makes anything significant.
00:49:56
SBe-rock
And so I think that keeps me from getting an inflated sense of ego.
00:50:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, good answer, Eric. that was a really good one.
00:50:05
SBe-rock
It was an honest, I don't know if it was good. It was honest, though, because that that also.
00:50:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, that's what, no, I know it was honest.
00:50:10
SBe-rock
ah Yeah, that also that also hits on like, what the fuck does that matter? You know, and like, so so how long am I going to just focus on the places that um cast me aside or or the people who spite me, you know?
00:50:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Um, it matters because if you're want to stay authentic, really authentic to who you are inside without external things hyping you up or, or, or changing your opinion of yourself in the world.
00:50:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Um, I don't know. There's a certain authenticity that comes from within internally. And I feel like I don't want it. I don't want external factors to move that too much, you know?
00:50:53
SBe-rock
Well, okay. So coming back to the original question, how, how do you feel it has impacted your authenticity and how do you deal with it?
00:51:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, ah I worry a lot about this because Copper Pig blew up for me and that changed the course of what I was making, why I was making it, who I was making it with, who I was making it for.
00:51:08
SBe-rock
Hmm.
00:51:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Everything changed because of social media.
00:51:15
SBe-rock
Hmm.
00:51:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So where would I?
00:51:18
SBe-rock
how hold on use it hold on Hold on. You say everything changed. What changed specifically? Give me so give me some ideas.
00:51:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. So for the first 10 years of my woodworking, I was, I was unknown. Okay. It was just me making shit in my garage for like friends and family and like an occasional sale at a local farm or something.
00:51:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And when I started Copper Pig on Instagram,
00:51:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
seemingly overnight, There was a whole world of artists and woodworkers and and and people and consumers and and just ah hobbyists and everything, like telling me what they liked, giving me instant feedback, buying the things I make, asking for more, you know, asking to collaborate. And like, holy shit, like what a difference.
00:52:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I mean, my whole life changed like it, like Instagram, in making an Instagram account. This isn't lost on me. It changed the course of my entire life.
00:52:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You were at my house last week, having dinner and like having breakfast.
00:52:25
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:52:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We met on Instagram.
00:52:32
SBe-rock
because i Because I sent you a DM one day that was like, your pictures are really good. How do you do that?
00:52:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You and i are going to spend a week. you You and Sarah and me and my wife are going to spend a week together in Switzerland in a couple months.
00:52:42
SBe-rock
Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:46
SBe-rock
Yep. Yep. 100%.
00:52:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Tell me that isn't a change in the course of your life.
00:52:51
SBe-rock
ah hundred percent
00:52:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so it's been so profound and so unexpected that I continuously ask myself and I'll ask you. What would you do right now if you didn't have any social media in your life at all?
00:53:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Who would you be and what would you be doing?
00:53:14
SBe-rock
You answer first. Go ahead.
00:53:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, shit.
00:53:17
SBe-rock
You motherfucker. You were like, I'm so good at just fucking redirecting this conversation. Let me just dip out of this fucking answer real quick.
00:53:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, God, because I don't know if I have. You got me. You got me
00:53:32
SBe-rock
Yeah, you don't have a fucking answer for that, do you, bitch? You motherfucker.
00:53:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I knew it was a good question, but I hadn't thought about the answer. Okay. um I suppose I would be still...
00:53:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know. i don't know if I'd be doing all this crazy design stuff or not. I would still be making, I'm guessing I would be making commissions for like local friends or people I knew.
00:54:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i don't know. i have no, I really don't know.
00:54:10
SBe-rock
Do you, so do you think that it would limit exclusively or, or would the impact of not having social media be limited to the type of work and commissions that you're doing?
00:54:23
SBe-rock
Or do you think it would be go beyond that?
00:54:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It would go beyond that.
00:54:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I wonder if I'd still be woodworking.
00:54:26
SBe-rock
In what way?
00:54:29
SBe-rock
Really? Really?
00:54:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know. Like, cause what if, what if you're like, Oh, it did 20 years. This is 20 years.
00:54:34
SBe-rock
Sure.
00:54:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I've been woodworking for the first 10. It was like in isolation. And for the second 10, it was like this fucking internet free for all. And the internet free for all has brought so much opportunity, so much interest, so much art, so much, like so much everything. It was like my mind exploded for the last 10 years.
00:54:51
SBe-rock
sure
00:54:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What if I didn't have that? Would I just still be making like mission furniture in my garage?
00:54:56
SBe-rock
Okay, well, let's let's let's, if I can reframe the question to how I understood it.
00:54:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And like, yeah Go ahead.
00:55:01
SBe-rock
Let's not assume that the last 10 years didn't happen, but what if tomorrow, on Tuesday morning at 8 a.m., m social media ceased to exist?
00:55:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. oh see, it's too late. I'm already a different person. i would continue with my current interests. Like my current interests are so deeply lodged in me now.
00:55:16
SBe-rock
Hmm...
00:55:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I would continue and I just have to...
00:55:20
SBe-rock
But how how would it affect what type of, like, do you think that you would be doing different work if people weren't watching? Do you think you would have different clientele?
00:55:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Now, yes. i Sorry, sorry. if you If you took it away tomorrow, no, nothing would change. I'm like, I have so many deep interests now.
00:55:35
SBe-rock
Hmm.
00:55:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I would just make them. And if they don't sell, they don't sell. And if they sell, they sell. And if they just live in my basement, they live in my basement. I would probably find a gallery or something. I would look for galleries to sell them now. But I would keep doing the same things. But 10 years ago, what I have changed into Copper Pig, where I like...
00:55:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
pursued crazy design if there was no social media at all. I don't know. It could have totally derailed me. I could have maybe lost interest and found another hobby.
00:56:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't, I really don't know because if there's no audience, there's no buying audience, there's no interaction.
00:56:08
SBe-rock
Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
There's no nothing. You get really lonely. I get lonely, right?
00:56:16
SBe-rock
Sure. Yeah. I mean, no, everybody seeks community.
00:56:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't want to, you know, 20 years in my shop of just making shit on my own and no one sees it. No one buys it. Like, i don't know if I could have done that.
00:56:26
SBe-rock
So do you think, ah let's,
00:56:30
SBe-rock
If woodworking is a thing that you fell in love with and wanted to keep doing without social media around, do you think that the
00:56:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:41
SBe-rock
the the the notice, the praise, the admiration of, and that might be an overstep, of your wife and your daughter would be enough to sustain that? Or like and your your friends, your immediate family,
00:56:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Yes. At this point, I can sustain with very little praise or appreciation. At this point, I can. And at this point, if there was no social media tomorrow, I would just make shit for my daughter, my wife, and my closest friends and family for the rest of my life.
00:57:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I could probably be happy doing that.
00:57:11
SBe-rock
but But is that because you know you're good now? And do you know you're good because of the affirmation that you got on social media?
00:57:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, see yes, Eric, that's what I'm saying.
00:57:19
SBe-rock
Yeah, that's the hard thing, isn't
00:57:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i were I worry that that social media has perverted us, our sense of self.
00:57:25
SBe-rock
it?
00:57:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sorry, I used the word perverted.
00:57:26
SBe-rock
I don't know that it's perverted, though.
00:57:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sorry, sorry.
00:57:27
SBe-rock
Yeah.
00:57:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Not perverted. that Maybe that word is too strong. But it has skewed my sense of self that I would have otherwise had without social media.
00:57:37
SBe-rock
all
00:57:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Now, I want to come back to something. You need to answer the fucking question. What would you do?
00:57:46
SBe-rock
all right if it didn't exist or if it tomorrow let's start with tomorrow
00:57:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What would you do if there was no social media? Who would you be? but no like tomorrow. ah but but Let's start with tomorrow. I'm taking it away for the rest of your life.
00:57:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Who are you starting tomorrow?
00:58:00
SBe-rock
I would go back to teaching. And and here's here's the reason I don't hesitate about that.
00:58:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:58:06
SBe-rock
I don't think social media is, and I could be wrong. I mean, there was a time where I'm sure people didn't think television was a sustain sustainable career. um But I don't know what social media will look like in 20 years, 30 years.
00:58:20
SBe-rock
And I don't know that I want to be a part of it. At that point, um what I do know is i have always had this performative streak.
00:58:32
SBe-rock
And I don't mean performative in like a faking it way. Like I just, I've always really enjoyed capturing a crowd's attention and making them laugh, like in giving them a joyful experience ever since I was a kid, you know, like I, I, I, I remember being a child and groups of adults would get me to, to, um, reenact scenes from dumb and dumber and Ace Ventura.
00:58:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Oh, I know.
00:58:59
SBe-rock
And I was like, this is, this is what I was born to do, baby.
00:59:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my God.
00:59:02
SBe-rock
Like making drunk idiots laugh in a crowd. Like that's my fucking calling.
00:59:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. You are the life of a party.
00:59:07
SBe-rock
Um,
00:59:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I will say that you are.
00:59:08
SBe-rock
and and and and And I think teaching is a similar performative aspect in that like you can you can make jokes.
00:59:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
oh
00:59:16
SBe-rock
we have a comp We have a task at hand, and I can i can bring you on a journey around that task, and I can make you enjoy that task.
00:59:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, wow. Eric, I've never seen, i mean, all these things make sense what you're saying about your personality.
00:59:25
SBe-rock
um
00:59:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I didn't realize how good a fit teaching was.
00:59:33
SBe-rock
It really was like, I think, I think that is largely, that's how I try to approach YouTube is just like teaching you what I'm doing.
00:59:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
oh
00:59:40
SBe-rock
Um, and, and making it in an entertaining and educational way. I hate like edutainment. I hate that idea, but, but something that's like, Hey, here's what I'm doing.
00:59:51
SBe-rock
It may be useful. It may be not, but you're going to be entertained. I'm going to make a joke. I'm going to be a little self-deprecating and we're all going to be human together. Um, So if it ceased to exist tomorrow, i think that's where I would i would go back to.
01:00:07
SBe-rock
um If it never existed,
01:00:11
SBe-rock
i don't know. I don't know what would have happened.
01:00:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Maybe you would have kept teaching.
01:00:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Would you have kept teaching? Yeah.
01:00:16
SBe-rock
I, maybe I would have kept teaching.
01:00:18
SBe-rock
Yeah. The only reason I left teaching is because I was contractually obligated to be available for the second season of the Netflix show.
01:00:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right.
01:00:25
SBe-rock
Um, I don't know where that would have went. What I do know is I'm also somebody who needs some percentage of unknown and, um,
01:00:38
SBe-rock
While I was teaching, there wasn't a lot of unknown outside of the fact that I was new to it and I wasn't good at it yet. So I could aim toward mastery um at this point in time.
01:00:55
SBe-rock
Like the whilst right now, the unknown is a little imbalanced. There's more unknown than known. And so running a business is a little bit emotionally difficult at this very moment in time.
01:01:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
01:01:09
SBe-rock
um I know that I couldn't live a life where where all aspects are solved ahead of time. All problems are solved ahead of time. There needs to be some thing of I don't know where this road's leading, but I'm going to walk it and find out.
01:01:24
SBe-rock
So I don't quite know what that looks like, but I suspect it's, it's only five to 10 degrees different from what it looks like at the moment.
01:01:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You said that in the future, you worry about what social media will look like and you're not sure you want to be part of it. What, what do you think it'll look like in 10 years?
01:01:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Do you have any guests?
01:01:47
SBe-rock
Um, I, so I was listening to a podcast today about, um, kind of how we millennials are like the last people to remember a time before everybody having a computer in their pocket.
01:02:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:02:04
SBe-rock
um We had computer rooms, right? You remember that? Like there was one PC in the house and and everybody like you had a limited amount of time.
01:02:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh yeah. Oh, totally. Yeah.
01:02:11
SBe-rock
It was the Internet was a place you went to, not a place that bombarded you consistently.
01:02:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:02:17
SBe-rock
And i have a funny feeling that in. 15 years, um maybe sooner than that, maybe longer than that, the social media as we know it now will be seen as a thing that your parents did and and it won't be what it is now.
01:02:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
01:02:40
SBe-rock
And I don't know if it will be better in that it goes away or worse in that it becomes like something even more pervasive. But but I like the way that Gen Zers see drinking as something that their parents did.
01:02:56
SBe-rock
And so they're they're not drinking largely.
01:02:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
so
01:02:58
SBe-rock
They're doing other things.
01:02:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So sorry, educate me on this. What?
01:03:02
SBe-rock
Gen Zers, a lot of them, Sarah's a Gen Zer, mid-20s.
01:03:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How old are Gen Zers?
01:03:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Okay. So, so mid twenties. Okay.
01:03:09
SBe-rock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. um A lot of them don't drink because they know the downsides of alcohol, but because we're human and everybody imbibes in something largely, they're...
01:03:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm.
01:03:24
SBe-rock
they're taking on other vehicles of intoxication we'll say and um and in drinking like drinking beer drinking liquor is something that's seen as like old people drink we we micro dose you know we vape it's a whole different world out there man
01:03:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Okay. Okay.
01:03:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Really? i'm I'm a little shocked. i didn't know this.
01:03:48
SBe-rock
Yeah, it's a whole different world out there.
01:03:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well...
01:03:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
01:03:50
SBe-rock
And I think similarly, like social media in 10 to 15 years could be a thing of like, I mean, already it's like millennials, ah Gen Xers are on Facebook, millennials are on Instagram, Gen Zers are on TikTok.
01:04:04
SBe-rock
And then I feel like it's going to come a point where it's just like, ah, we just, we're just rejecting the whole social media thing.
01:04:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
oh I wonder if you're right. won't even hazard an opinion because I have no idea, but that's interesting.
01:04:17
SBe-rock
Hmm.
01:04:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
01:04:19
SBe-rock
I don't know. We'll see.
01:04:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, Eric, authenticity and how social media has skewed my sense of self and my sense of design and what I make is always on my mind.
01:04:32
SBe-rock
Hmm.
01:04:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I don't know that I have an answer to it, but I sure as shit think about it. And... Yeah, I don't know if it's good or bad, but it is what it is. It happened and that's that.
01:04:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I don't know.
01:04:45
SBe-rock
So many things in life are neither good or bad and both good and bad.
01:04:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, yeah, I don't know what.
01:04:50
SBe-rock
It just, it just, you know what it is? It made us friends. So I'm grateful for it, buddy.
01:04:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, that's a great way to end that.
01:04:56
SBe-rock
You know, you know, you know,
01:04:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, I love that, Eric. I love that they that. That's a great way to end that. That's true. I wouldn't have you without it.
01:05:03
SBe-rock
little positivity. Goddamn right, baby.
01:05:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's true.
01:05:05
SBe-rock
All right.
01:05:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I have a small second seg to follow up with.
01:05:07
SBe-rock
Hit me.
01:05:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And it's it's not not any big any big heavy, but... um I was recently coming back from the ah Jason's Patreon Summit, which we're going to talk about in the after show.
01:05:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So if you want to hear about how that went, you know tune in to the after show.
01:05:19
SBe-rock
Hmm.
01:05:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And really, the after show is not so much about the summit itself, but about my observations about our people. like what Why do people want to come together so bad around this thing we love, this craft?
01:05:35
SBe-rock
Hmm. Hmm.
01:05:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And what did I see emotionally and intellectually and philosophically about my interactions? I think that's actually way more interesting. Like those observations were way more interesting than just saying, oh, it was great. We had a breakfast and we had this and we had that. Like I was kind of looking at it from an experimental point of view, like why do we want to come together so bad?
01:05:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And what does it give us?
Caffeine's Historical Influence
01:06:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I want to talk about that in the after show, but on the flight back, I was ah kind of raw dogging it a little bit. I was just kind of looking out the window, not doing much.
01:06:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I was like, ah and i put I'll see what American Airlines has for a podcast. And I noticed this podcast by Michael Pollan called How how Caffeine Created the Modern World. And I was like, that sounds kind of interesting because I've always, you know, I'm a huge coffee drinker.
01:06:21
SBe-rock
Mm.
01:06:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love coffee.
01:06:27
SBe-rock
Yep.
01:06:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And and I love, i have ah a nice espresso machine. So i make lattes in the morning, but I don't drink a lot of coffee. I just have one a day or in the morning and that's it.
01:06:28
SBe-rock
Yep.
01:06:36
SBe-rock
Yeah?
01:06:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't usually have more throughout the day. No, just, just morning. And I was always curious scientifically about caffeine. like you, you hear so much, right, Eric, you probably heard like, oh, caffeine is good for you.
01:06:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, caffeine, coffee is bad for you.
01:06:52
SBe-rock
Oh, it flit flit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:06:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's good for you. It's bad for you. It's good for you. It's bad for you.
01:06:55
SBe-rock
It's the smoking of our age without the long cancer.
01:06:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I was like kind of curious. like Michael Pollan is pretty good. like He does pretty decent due diligence on these topics, whatever he does.
01:07:03
SBe-rock
Hmm.
01:07:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I found his his work very compelling. And I was curious what he'd say about caffeine. And so he basically – I did this entire audio book yesterday.
01:07:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
like It was only about two hours front to back.
01:07:18
SBe-rock
Hmm. Okay.
01:07:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I was so, interested it was so interesting. Like the first point, and there's some things I wanna point out to you that I think affect both of us. The first thing is that caffeine was just a happy accident by a plant.
01:07:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like the plant made the caffeine molecule just by chance, right, an insecticide, right?
01:07:35
SBe-rock
Sure. Sure. It's an insecticide, yeah Yeah.
01:07:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So the insects don't eat it. And it just so happens that the hominid species that dominated the world happens to have a psychoactive response to this dumb little molecule that happened to be for insects.
01:07:46
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
01:07:49
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
01:07:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But not only that, it it it binds to our adenosine receptors in our brain. And it makes us feel good in a way that's like non toxic, not really, you know, it's not really bad for us.
01:07:53
SBe-rock
Yep.
01:08:00
SBe-rock
Yep.
01:08:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And it makes us feel better. And so this dumb little molecule just by chance,
01:08:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
co-opted us to basically take this plant and grow it to like a million times its natural habitat, right?
01:08:22
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
01:08:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like that little plant hit the jackpot, the coffee plant and the tea plant, they hit the motherfucking jackpot and wheat and rice.
01:08:25
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm. and And the wheat plant? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:08:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. I mean, but those are, those are based on their, if so the, the, the really, the thing that I wanted to point out that I thought was very cool. I was like, this is so good. He's talking about caffeine, right?
01:08:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And he's talking about how it makes us feel alert. And what that did during the Industrial Revolution is it meant we could work longer hours and we could work night and and graveyard shifts, right?
01:08:54
SBe-rock
ye Yeah, yeah.
01:08:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so it enabled, it truly enabled the Industrial Revolution in many parts.
01:09:01
SBe-rock
hundred percent
01:09:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like coffee shops popped up all over London in the sixth late 1600s after it was discovered, right?
01:09:06
SBe-rock
they were still frowned upon.
01:09:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes, yes.
01:09:09
SBe-rock
Yep.
01:09:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so, okay, so you say, oh, that's great. It helped our productivity. It helped us focus. It helped our drive. It helped us stay up late and like get so much shit done.
01:09:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And then the next morning, though, we're tired because we didn't sleep well.
01:09:28
SBe-rock
sleep. Yep, yep.
01:09:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so then you're like, oh, I'm so tired and groggy. So you need caffeine to pull you out of the grog that the caffeine caused in the first place.
01:09:39
SBe-rock
aha
01:09:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's like this thing. It's like self-perpetuating cycle that happens. it's like a self perpetuating cycle that The caffeine kept you up late, which made you tired and gave you bad sleep.
01:09:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So then you needed more caffeine in the morning, which kept you up late, which kept you productive. So you didn't sleep well, which needs you mean the faffine in the morning. And I thought, Jesus Christ, like I never really conceptualized it as like this cycle like that, like a.
01:10:03
SBe-rock
It's an addiction cycle of stimulants is instead of downers.
01:10:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but I never really thought of it like that. I just thought, oh, this shit tastes good.
01:10:08
SBe-rock
No?
01:10:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:10:14
SBe-rock
Well, so I've also heard the argument, interestingly, that but the part of the reason the Industrial Revolution happened is is certainly because caffeine allowed us to stay up later, work harder, think more, think more clearly.
01:10:31
SBe-rock
But
01:10:33
SBe-rock
Beer and alcoholic beverage did two things before ah we understood germ theory. Number one, um it it killed it killed germs, right?
01:10:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, yes. Right. Because the alcohol.
01:10:45
SBe-rock
um
01:10:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yep.
01:10:46
SBe-rock
Because of the alcohol in the in the boiling system, but also it gave calories in a world where calories were hard to come by.
01:10:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right.
01:10:53
SBe-rock
So it it kind of fleshed out your diet a little bit. The thing is, if you're doing largely manual labor,
01:11:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
01:11:01
SBe-rock
You can do that on a buzz. Like you can, if you ever wonder for any, anybody listening who has never worked a blue collar job in their life and and maybe, and I'm not saying this judgmentally, like this is genuinely a thing I've seen multiple times and and people get uppity, including my mother from time to time will get uppity about this of like, you hire somebody to come to your house to do X job, whatever it is, masonry job, stone masonry, uh, uh, cart, you know, just framing.
01:11:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
01:11:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow
01:11:31
SBe-rock
And you're like, I'm pretty sure this guy's high. Like, what the fuck, man? I'm paying him good money to come do this job. Yeah, because he can do it high. Like, it's not, it's it is a thing that like, and this is a thing I've experienced many a time in my life of like, my hands know what to do without my mind thinking about it.
01:11:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow
01:11:50
SBe-rock
And so you can just do the thing.
01:11:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
who
01:11:52
SBe-rock
It doesn't matter. Like you can be off in la la land and you're doing the thing because you're you like the the competency of your craft, of your skill is so high.
01:12:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
is so high.
01:12:02
SBe-rock
And it's a manual labor thing that like you can do that without being in your right mind. And if you do it day in and day out, five, six days a week, eight to 10 hours a day,
01:12:14
SBe-rock
You have to do something to keep your mind stimulated. And so what a lot of people do is they turn to shit that like takes the edge off.
01:12:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my God.
01:12:22
SBe-rock
So you can be out there in the fields a thousand years ago farming with a buzz because you had three too many beers at lunch. Fine.
01:12:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah that Apparently that was the norm in in England before coffee.
01:12:33
SBe-rock
Yeah, 100%. But you know what you can't do with a buzz is like solve engineering problems to figure out the Industrial Revolution.
01:12:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And they said...
01:12:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right. That's right. Yeah.
01:12:44
SBe-rock
And so it flipped the script.
01:12:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, they said it was... Yes, it was they said it was about the Enlightenment. Like the Enlightenment came just at the right time for like all
01:12:50
SBe-rock
No, no, no. The Enlightenment happened because those people were no longer drunk out of their minds by 2 p.m.
01:12:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
that's That's what I'm saying. Right?
01:12:58
SBe-rock
Yeah.
01:12:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's what I'm saying.
01:12:58
SBe-rock
Yeah.
01:12:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, yeah. it Like this this coincided with it. And your point about germs, like alcohol used to purify or, you know, purify the solution, to some extent with germs, but now you have to boil the coffee and the and the tea.
01:13:10
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
01:13:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So which is even better.
01:13:11
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm. So, yep.
01:13:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's even better than alcohol.
01:13:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So
01:13:14
SBe-rock
Well, yes.
01:13:16
SBe-rock
So the beer-making process, you boil the grains in order to create that, right?
01:13:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
no, sorry.
01:13:20
SBe-rock
but But to your point, yes, you boil the water and the coffee, so it's the same.
01:13:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Correct. But the water, right?
01:13:25
SBe-rock
It's the same component.
01:13:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I was like, wow, I never really thought that deeply about caffeine and the whole, apparently you're all over this.
01:13:33
SBe-rock
No?
01:13:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You know, every fucking point of the book.
01:13:36
SBe-rock
Well, I think about it often because my mother is just like she and yeah my father was an alcoholic and and she's always been ah she's struggled with the idea of addiction.
01:13:49
SBe-rock
But then she always is just like, yeah, I'm a coffee addict. And I'm like, so what's the difference? It's social acceptance is what it is, you know?
01:13:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
are you Are you a coffee addict?
01:13:58
SBe-rock
Oh, 100%.
01:13:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, so that...
01:13:59
SBe-rock
I will go through periods where I go cold turkey because I know that I'm a coffee addict, for sure.
01:14:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, so that got that got me wondering, like, all right, so if... And there's a lot of sleep researchers who are saying, like, the coffee's bad for us.
01:14:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Apparently a lot of the circadian, circadian rhythm researchers and sleep researchers do not drink any caffeine.
01:14:21
SBe-rock
Sure. Sure.
01:14:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I started thinking, okay, so is this really bad for me then? I'm thinking about it scientifically. So I have one coffee, which is probably equivalent to at least two cups. ah at around 8 a.m.
01:14:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I don't drink any the rest of the day. So the question becomes, what how much did I spike my caffeine level in my in my blood? What's my peripheral plasma level of caffeine?
01:14:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And what's the half-life? How quickly does is it metabolized and degraded?
01:14:50
SBe-rock
say about six hours, yeah?
01:14:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, Jesus, how do you know all this?
01:14:52
SBe-rock
Yeah. I do some science too, bitch! Come at me, motherfucker!
01:14:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, no, no, seriously. How did you know the half-life of caffeine off your cuff?
01:15:02
SBe-rock
does Does not everybody know that it's six hours? No?
01:15:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Are you serious?
01:15:04
SBe-rock
Just me?
01:15:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, I'm serious.
01:15:05
SBe-rock
Yeah.
01:15:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Did you look that up?
01:15:07
SBe-rock
No, I that's feel like I literally can show you the window.
01:15:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Did you look that up?
01:15:12
SBe-rock
It's just us talking right now. Yeah, it's it's six hours.
01:15:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How the fuck did you know that?
01:15:17
SBe-rock
I'll give you some I'll give you some historical context.
01:15:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but Eric, wait, no, no, no, no. No, I don't want historical context. I want to know how you knew the half-life of caffeine was six hours.
01:15:23
SBe-rock
i don't I don't I've read it over the years. I have no idea.
01:15:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Fuck off.
01:15:30
SBe-rock
ah Yeah, it's about six hours.
01:15:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, that's ridiculous. It is. It's five to six hours, fucker. So...
01:15:35
SBe-rock
Now, here's here's what I will say. um I will say two things. Number one, ah this strikes me similarly as like now people are contending with the...
01:15:48
SBe-rock
the the carcinogen effect of like, uh, cooked meats of like blackened meats. When you grill something or char something, they're like, well, that's technically because our carcinogen and, and, and I hear that and I get it.
01:15:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is. it is. Yeah.
01:16:01
SBe-rock
And maybe caffeine's not great for you. Maybe beer isn't great for you. Maybe grilled meats aren't great for you. Um, you also have to live a life that's more than just like porridge, you know, like you can't, you, you can't, yeah, that's also bad for you.
01:16:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's not, no, that that's too carby. Wait, wait, wait. I want to come back to the half-life. So, but and and then I have a thing about the safety.
01:16:19
SBe-rock
Oh, OK.
01:16:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So, all right. So how, how how often are we awake or how many hours are we 16, 15 hours? Are we awake? let's say, you know, that's three half-lives roughly.
01:16:32
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm.
01:16:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So it means, you know, what that's 50%, 25%, 12%. So what it's at 10%, let's say, just to make even numbers, it's at 10% of the highest level it started at in the morning.
01:16:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And then the question is, is that level at 10% going to affect your sleep? And, or is it psychoactive at that level?
01:16:53
SBe-rock
Hmm.
01:16:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You know, like what's its affinity for binding the adenosine receptor and would it make a difference? ah You know, for me, I don't think it affects my sleep, but I would have to do an experiment where I went off it for like a month to and compared the sleep and somehow measured it.
01:17:06
SBe-rock
Sure.
01:17:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But I'll say i have no trouble sleeping. So for me, I'm okay with like a coffee in the morning and then nothing the rest of the day. And I don't think there's any negligible effects. However, I have had coffee late in the evening and it does disrupt my sleep for sure.
01:17:22
SBe-rock
Mm-hmm. Oh, for sure. For sure.
01:17:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So, so, and so then I started wondering, okay, if it's so bad for you, if caffeine is bad in a way, because it disrupts your sleep and and and good sleep is important for longevity and health.
01:17:25
SBe-rock
No, I won't drink coffee after like two to three o'clock.
01:17:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Then do people who drink a lot of caffeine live shorter lives? Because in theory they would, right? Because you're disrupting your sleep all the time, which means your brain is not like recovering as well through deep sleep and REM sleep and all these types of sleep. There's like eight types of sleep now that they measure.
01:17:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Um, if that's true, if it's so detrimental that you're impacting your sleep all the time and your brain doesn't get a chance to recover and your body is suffering because of it, that would tell me that high caffeine drinkers would have either like a predisposition for disease or shorter lifespans than those who don't drink caffeine.
01:18:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And when, if you Google, what is the longevity lifespan of coffee drinkers versus non coffee drinkers? Well, coffee drinkers live longer.
01:18:27
SBe-rock
Okay.
01:18:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And they found that it doesn't matter whether it's caffeinated or decaf.
01:18:33
SBe-rock
Really?
01:18:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes. Which says, and what they say, Eric, is that the reason it has a longevity effect on lifespan is it's the other thousand compounds in coffee, many of which are antioxidants.
01:18:36
SBe-rock
That's interesting to me.
01:18:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And you know what antioxidants do? They prevent DNA damage. That's what antioxidants, like these oxygen oxygen radicals go around in your cells and they they're they're highly reactive oxygen species with like an unstable...
01:18:53
SBe-rock
Sure.
01:19:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
let's say they're unstable chemically, and then they bind to your DNA and they do bad things to it. Whereas an antioxidant will bind to that thing before it gets to your DNA and like take it away.
01:19:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So that's what antioxidants do. They prevent oxygen radicals from damaging your DNA. So you're taking in every day, all these antioxidants in the form of, and there's many of them, but there's thousands of compounds in coffee and tea. So, and and the fact that it works for either decaf or caffeinated says that it's the antioxidants, not the caffeine that give you the lung.
01:19:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So you're balancing two things. Now there's a, there's a, right?
01:19:37
SBe-rock
Yeah, you're outweighing one with the other.
01:19:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Right.
01:19:39
SBe-rock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:19:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So you, you know, the caffeine late at night might be doing bad things to your sleep, which is not great for your body, but the, the, the antioxidants are doing good things for your body. And the sum total is that coffee drinkers apparently in the latest round of studies live a little bit longer.
01:19:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
not and And this isn't big, big differences, but they do statistically. So I had to like go full circle with this shit to figure out if I wanted to have a coffee tomorrow.
01:20:06
SBe-rock
It's really, it's a really interesting. All right. So so the historical little tidbit that I was going to bring up to you before, I don't know that it doesn't impact anything, but it does. To me, it's a funny side story about the history of coffee and also might illuminate how we have seen it in the past.
01:20:24
SBe-rock
So for the first thousand years or and I don't know when coffee was identified and and brought into the mainstream. It certainly wasn't in the year zero, but sometime in the first millennia, somebody discovered coffee and it became a thing that people started drinking.
01:20:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It became popular in the sixteen hundreds It was discovered in Ethiopia, apparently.
01:20:46
SBe-rock
in in in yeah In the Western world, it became popular there, but it was known long before that.
01:20:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, right, right, right, right.
01:20:52
SBe-rock
Right, right, right.
01:20:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
right Yep.
01:20:53
SBe-rock
um And so for the first few hundred years of its existence, it was seen akin to cocaine in the in the Catholic Church.
01:20:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:21:04
SBe-rock
And it was seen as like, this is a thing good people don't do.
01:21:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:21:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:21:08
SBe-rock
And it was illegal until I'm 99% positive. was Pope Leo, something, something, something. um But that might be a recency bias given that we have a Chicago Pope now.
01:21:20
SBe-rock
ah But Pope Leo had a cup of coffee and he was like, Oh no, this shit slaps. Actually, this is good by the Catholic church now. And since then that was in the mid 1300s. Since then coffee has been okay to drink by the Catholic church standard.
01:21:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love that. i think.
01:21:35
SBe-rock
So he was literally like he he did a line of coffee and he was like, nah, i man, count me right the fuck in, dog.
01:21:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I'm in dog. This
01:21:45
SBe-rock
So that's that's how that's how it goes from a drug that will kill you and like destroy your soul to. yeah yeah, yeah. This is good. Hmm.
01:21:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, that's fantastic. So, you know, I, I've looked up Eric, like how, like just, just to figure out like, what am i so where do we go from here with caffeine? Right?
01:22:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like what's the, what's the common sense like best practice? And In fact, there is there's a review from just last year where we're still trying to figure out how much and when caffeine is enough or too much or too little that it affects your sleep or doesn't affect your sleep. Like this is 2024 and we're still trying to figure out when and how much caffeine is okay?
01:22:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like what the fuck?
01:22:31
SBe-rock
This is... This is what I love maybe most about science is, and and you, you've obviously never been this type of person, but a lot of people just carry themselves in the way that like, we know everything there is to know.
01:22:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Apparently not.
01:22:48
SBe-rock
And then, and then we're out here like, we don't even know how much fucking coffee to drink, dog. We don't know shit about fuck. Like what, what? We put a man on the moon and you don't know if two cups of coffee are bad for you.
01:22:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and I know. I know.
01:23:00
SBe-rock
The fuck are we doing?
01:23:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I know we have Mars. We have rovers on Mars like looking at sulfur and we don't know how much.
01:23:02
SBe-rock
Yeah. but yeah We got satellites outside of our solar system, and we don't know.
01:23:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Let's read the book.
01:23:09
SBe-rock
Jesus.
01:23:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so i you know, I guess the the bottom line for me is like, um, have it early in the day, or if you're not particularly caffeine sensitive, just make sure it's not disrupting your sleep is kind of the bottom line.
01:23:11
SBe-rock
jesus
01:23:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
If it's disrupting your sleep, you're going to pay a price. And was like, okay, it's not disrupting my head that I can tell. Anyway, are you going to have a coffee tomorrow?
01:23:33
SBe-rock
That's fair. You goddamn right I am.
01:23:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
me um Me too.
01:23:39
SBe-rock
There's snow. I'm going to have another whiskey after we end
Conclusion and After-show Teaser
01:23:42
SBe-rock
this call, too. like You're not going to convince me otherwise?
01:23:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Apparently, alcohol is even more disruptive of sleep, but to but since ah since I'm two whiskeys deep, too late for that shit.
01:23:47
SBe-rock
i Yeah, I know. i know.
01:23:51
SBe-rock
Goddamn right, man. Let's dive. So this has been Good Good Science Boy with Paul and Eric. I hope that you guys like this seg. Please let us know if you want more.
01:24:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, good, good. Is that the name?
01:24:04
SBe-rock
good oh yeah.
01:24:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
love it.
01:24:04
SBe-rock
Good Good Science Boys with Paul and Eric.
01:24:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love it. can...
01:24:07
SBe-rock
A Honda OP. Yeah.
01:24:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
like
01:24:09
SBe-rock
We're going to come up with a quick little ditty, a theme song.
01:24:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah just a good good science boy who likes to make things out of wood all right man uh well i think we did it again eric because i've kind of forgot we were recording a podcast here and there it's like an hour and 25 minutes and i'm like what on earth did we just talk about for an hour and a half
01:24:17
SBe-rock
That's going to be the intro to this seg from now on in the future.
01:24:25
SBe-rock
they' were just talking about coffee
01:24:32
SBe-rock
ah well in the after show we're going to talk about ah your observations at ah Jason's Patreon summit yeah alright champ that was a good one two for two I feel like hell yeah it's good it's something to sit with uh huh uh huh
01:24:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yes yes yes we will all right buddy that was fun
01:24:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's a good, I like that. I like that conversation. That was fun. I know I will not forget Aled's quote. i I'm gonna be thinking about that even though I, what did I call it?
01:24:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Kitchy bullshit out the front.
01:24:57
SBe-rock
You did. You straight out the jump. You were like, this fucker doesn't know what he's talking about.
01:25:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I stand by it. All right, buddy. ah
01:25:05
SBe-rock
right, homie. Thanks for listening, France.
01:25:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:25:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Thanks, France. Yeah. We'll see in the after show. and you remember how to get that, right? We talked about at the beginning.
01:25:08
SBe-rock
Join us in the after show.
01:25:14
SBe-rock
Patreon. And go to Bonfire.
01:25:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
by
01:25:18
SBe-rock
Bye.