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Episode 40 - Why STORYTELLING Is Your Most Valuable Skill (Part 2)
1.4k Plays7 days ago
A wonderful continuation of a wonderful discussion on storytelling. In hour 2 things get even more real, almost like an episode of "Barstool Confessions" where the 4 of us continue discussing the importance of storytelling but with even more personal viewpoints.
Are you a good storyteller? Do you tell the story behind your art so that the audience undertstands and CONNECTS with your work? Storytelling is the KEY to making people care about WHY you make art and WHAT IT IS YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY with it. People buy the work for the STORY of the art and the maker. If we know storytelling is so important, why don't we spend more time and energy learning how to be a better storyteller?? Join us for a GREAT EPISODE featuring TWO GREAT STORYTELLERS, co-host KONRAD SAUER and guest JUSTIN MABIE. Justin has DEDICATED HIS CREATIVE LIFE toward storytelling on his amazing youtube channel, CALL ME MABIE, loaded with empassioned documentaries on talented artists within the maker community.
To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon: (http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467) http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467
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Transcript
Introduction and Special Episode Announcement
00:00:03
Speaker
I'm so sorry.
00:00:16
Speaker
And we're back. Your favorite podcast about creativity, art, design, philosophy. You hit record this time, yeah? I did hit record this time. This is Woodworking is Bullshit. I'm your host, Paul Jasper, woodworker by day, scientist by day, woodworker by night. I always get those confused.
00:00:37
Speaker
Career change. I'm here with my best boy. Good, good boy My good. Just a good, good working boy. My best boy. My best boy, Eric Curtis, fine furniture maker and content creator.
Episode Vibe and Inspiration
00:00:52
Speaker
We have a bit of a different intro and a different episode today. Eric, what we have in store? Little different vibe today. um So in our previous conversation,
00:01:03
Speaker
with Justin maybe and Conrad Sauer two gentlemen two fantastic purveyors of their craft purveyors purveyors we dove into the after show and about 45 or 50 minutes into the after show, Paul sent a group text and was just like, let's just keep riding and make this a whole other episode. Because it wasn't it ended up being legitimately a really good conversation.
00:01:30
Speaker
Yes. and at them and the Now, this is, ah what is it now, two weeks after we recorded that? And I can't remember all what the topics were. that we actually talked about. Can you know it was it was fully free flowing.
00:01:42
Speaker
we It was but but it it did feel kind of like the barstool confessions in that it was just four people conversing about things, trying to like really contend with some shit.
00:01:55
Speaker
And we we I'm sure there are some jokes in there that, you know, who knows? Who knows if they Hold up to time, but it's definitely some jokes. But I recall there it actually after that first episode that I guess we've already released now um this second episode, I recall there being a lot of meat still on the bone. And like we were diving deeper in this second hour, we were going deeper into more topics, bearing our yeah were lewis even more. Right. Yeah.
00:02:27
Speaker
And so we figured, hey, what the heck, we'll do this as a two-part series. It's the first time we've ever done a two-part series because we couldn't shut the fuck up. So that's a good thing.
00:02:38
Speaker
And you know what? Let's shut the fuck up right now and just dive into it. Let the people hear what we have. All right. Without further ado. Bye. Bye.
Model Trains and Passion for Hobbies
00:02:47
Speaker
ah So Justin's a train boy now.
00:02:53
Speaker
All aboard! yeah you just You just started becoming a train boy in the middle of your late 20s? i ah Yeah, my late 20s at age 31. started really liking model trains. So yeah, Conrad, I got a model train set in my bedroom, ladies. it's It's not small either. that's pretty cool, actually.
00:03:15
Speaker
shoot he i mean i don't You know what? I don't i don't actually don't care what shit anybody is into. If you're passionate about your shit, I can listen to anybody talk about it for hours.
00:03:27
Speaker
cause It is fun. It is fun. It's fun. I don't care what it is. That's cool. You spent fucking months on that thing too, didn't you? I did. and but yeah so what on what scale is it? What scale?
00:03:39
Speaker
Great question. That's HO scale. It's 187 HO scale. okay What does HO mean? It's just what the old people designated it as.
00:03:51
Speaker
What does HO stand for? There's a couple of different scales. Yeah, HO scale. And 187 was the one that they decided on? Yeah, HO scale. I'm reading it right now. i actually don't know. fucking It doesn't act. I don't know. I don't know. Is that 87 to 1?
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's 1 to 87th, Paul. Yeah, 1 to 87th. It's 87 times bigger than a normal trainer. His apartment is fucking massive.
00:04:23
Speaker
Why would they choose such a random fucking number? Like 87? That's what was asking. Because it's half of the O scale. And the O scale's fun.
00:04:36
Speaker
half 87? 43 and a half?
00:04:39
Speaker
three and a half No, 87 is half half of the O scale. the oske yeah so Whatever 87 times 2 is, nobody actually knows that.
00:04:51
Speaker
It's impossible to find out. Even the algorithm doesn't know. Archimedes once tried to calculate it, but it was impossible.
00:05:05
Speaker
Get the fuck out of here. All right, well, anyway, so social media, huh?
Social Media's Impact on Authenticity
00:05:11
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. well Yeah, no, we're recording the after show, bro. Put your goddamn phone down. We're still recording. I was dividing 87 by two and like, yeah, of course you're going to five. No, it's 87 times two. It's half the O scale.
00:05:25
Speaker
Whatever. um
00:05:29
Speaker
ah Disinterested. We were going to talk in the after show. ah We were
00:05:37
Speaker
Bunch of dicks. We were going to talk about the second segment. Okay. So ah this is specifically for Conrad and and and Justin. and Now, because I've already asked Eric this. So Eric, you can feel free to like moderate this and like poke and prod.
00:05:54
Speaker
Oh, that's what I do best. this This came up in our most recent episode of Barstool Confessions. What the fuck was that word? Episode. Episode.
00:06:06
Speaker
he said That was the strangest Canadian accent I've ever heard in my lifetime. I was thinking of Conrad when I did it. this This came up in episode two of Barstool Confessions, which is where Eric and I like surprise each other with like ah a very deep question that it will be very difficult to answer off the cuff. We kind of fuck with each other.
00:06:29
Speaker
um I said, okay, Eric, and I'll say the same to you, Justin and Conrad. I'm like, um Conrad, let's say authenticity is important to you, correct?
00:06:41
Speaker
Yeah. And Justin, you seem like authenticity is like a big thing about your documentaries. Correct? It's like it's literally in the bio of my YouTube channel. Yeah.
00:06:52
Speaker
Okay. um The word authenticity. Okay. Now, seth let's take that idea of authenticity and set it aside. Okay, just like close the chapter on that. Like we agree.
00:07:04
Speaker
Okay, the three of us, the four of us rather agree on that. Now let's consider social media as a second idea completely independently.
00:07:17
Speaker
With social media, Justin, you know that this is important for the success of your YouTube channel, right? With ah especially with going on Roku after like it's on YouTube, and and then it moves to the Roku networks and, and that supports you monetarily, correct?
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, helps to some extent, not not entirely, but ah ah so a small portion of your Yeah. And, and of course, like, your social media is like your the front facing part of your business, right?
00:07:49
Speaker
And Conrad, um you know, you've engaged in social media, probably a different way than most, but social media has played a role in your business, without a doubt.
00:08:04
Speaker
I mean, I think you're very careful and you're very cagey about social media versus you know compared to the the average quote unquote. So the question becomes, if authenticity is important to you, which we agreed, does the social media compromise in any way that authenticity?
00:08:32
Speaker
I think it depends on the creator, the person, because kind kind of, similar Daddy Greenbacks here, have outside day job.
00:08:51
Speaker
So I know that my Instagram, for example, is not pleasing the algorithm. There's slow motion, cinematic, shallow focus shots and a lot of photography. And we know that reels typically shot on the phone with quick cuts typically perform better.
00:09:11
Speaker
um But that's not my brand. I want you to see my art as what it is.
Balancing Integrity and Algorithms
00:09:20
Speaker
So... i't know what's challenging in that aspect.
00:09:25
Speaker
Um, but for a lot of other people
00:09:32
Speaker
don't have, yeah who who are full-time makers you know, you social media is a very important avenue for promoting their work and, you know, paying the bills.
00:09:44
Speaker
So maybe for some people compromising art, in order to make money might be their prerogative. I'm not saying all makers by any means, but I do feel there are some who the content takes place over the art itself.
00:10:08
Speaker
Conrad, what's your Well, that brings question is the content the business itself? And if it is the business, then making an object, a piece of content, whatever it is, to a market, is that compromising authenticity or is that fulfilling a market need? That's a great question, Eric.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah, I don't know that there's an answer to that. I would say the answer is the latter, but that's fine. Conrad, you're good. Yeah, i so i can't remember i I can't remember when I joined Instagram, but I remember a conversation i had with ah somebody ah about it. And, you know, I had had a blog for years and years that i really enjoyed.
00:10:58
Speaker
long format, I could, you know, write all sorts of shit in it. And lots of people participated in it. It was great. But I saw that as, you know, wasn't an idiot and realized Instagram had just kind of arrived and the blog format was kind of trickling off. And a friend of mine said,
00:11:15
Speaker
Instagram is basically like a very short form blog. And when he described it that way, I thought, yeah, that I thought I could probably get my head around. So I, you know, kind of mentally thought every day that, okay, could I do, is there something that I'm doing on any given day that's interesting enough that I could write a really short blog entry about it, AKA Instagram.
00:11:40
Speaker
And pretty quickly realized that, yeah, I probably could, there was enough stuff that might be interesting to somebody. And so slowly kind of made that shift over to Instagram, but the, the motivation for it was really just to show how I do what I do and what it looks like. i mean,
00:12:01
Speaker
You know, I'm not an idiot. A hand plane is a very photogenic thing. It's a small object. It photographs well. Um, you know, people recognize what it is.
00:12:12
Speaker
And so it, it checked a whole bunch of boxes that way. And so I, I figured I could probably, you know, make that shift into that, but you know, it wasn't, it has never been about me.
00:12:24
Speaker
It's about the work that, that was always, that was always really important to me. um right from the very, very beginning.
00:12:35
Speaker
Like that the I'm important from the standpoint of I have a relationship with this customer, but that's it. That's a one-to-one thing. In a social setting, in a social media setting, for me, it's here's a photograph of what I'm working on.
00:12:51
Speaker
My hands might be in it, but this is what I'm doing. This is what it looks like. Here's a process, might talk about it, explain it. But, you know, i don't I do not want to be the center of attention because that to me is, for me, that's a line that I don't,
Storytelling in Content Creation
00:13:07
Speaker
I just, I'm not interested in going over.
00:13:09
Speaker
Eric, can you speak to that? So like, ah so ah we know social media is many things. I knew you were not going to pick on me after he said that. because it's about me. It's not, but yeah.
00:13:27
Speaker
But Conrad brings up such a good point. It's like his version of how to use social media is it's about the object. And Eric, you and I both know that videos with people front facing cameras talking to the camera, building those relationships one to one, like I'm looking at you like you're looking you, right?
00:13:48
Speaker
Like that is what engages people in social media. So can you speak to your different take on it? Well, ironically, i had the exact same take on it for a very long time.
00:14:01
Speaker
um I like all of my early Instagram posts, even in my stories, I never spoke. I would be on camera doing a thing sometimes, but more often it was close ups of the work.
00:14:17
Speaker
because I wanted it to be about the work and not about me. And that was something that I was um it was really uncomfortable for me to make any piece of content about me and not about what I was doing.
00:14:30
Speaker
um And over time and and once I was forced to to kind of leave work for the Netflix show and then figure out how to pay my mortgage for a year while doing social media and content creation, that was the path of least resistance.
00:14:47
Speaker
um Then it became like understanding that I could try to find a balance where it was Me in front of the camera being a human being, but relaying the story of the thing that I'm doing. And I'm not saying I've done this really well all the time for the entirety of my career, especially once I started doing YouTube. um There's a lot of it's it's the beginner's journey of like you're trying to do a thing and you're just like throwing things out and seeing what works. And then sometimes you do a thing and you go like looking back on it two years later, you're like, I wish I hadn't done that.
00:15:28
Speaker
You know, like that doesn't feel right now. But at the time i didn't know better. I was just trying to figure out how to do YouTube. Yeah. um But what I found over time is that there can be a balance to be had of kind of taking the concept that you were just saying, Conrad, of there was a blog and then a plane is a very photogenic thing. A piece of furniture is a very photogenic thing, at least on the scale that I'm making it.
00:15:55
Speaker
And, um, I could essentially write a blog post. Like, like that's what we were doing in like 2016, 2017, 2018 on Instagram is like long fucking texts, a couple of photos, maybe a video, maybe,
00:16:10
Speaker
um And now how i I see my relationship with content is very similar, except the text has become spoken word.
00:16:22
Speaker
Like it's me narrating the blog post, essentially, if we can phrase it that way. um But it's it's now I'm in a comfortable spot of I know.
00:16:33
Speaker
my audience, my audience knows me and I can put out a video and it can it can kind of be about nothing. But it's the thing that I'm working on, like the video i'm going to put out on Saturday is about the stave core door construction.
00:16:50
Speaker
And it's literally just me making the stave cores for this door I'm working on. And admittedly, there's no story arc. It's just like, hey, guys, I got to get shit done this week. So like, come fucking hang and I'll teach you about StaveCourse. This is what it looks like.
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's not a good video, but it's hopefully like there's enough information there with those people and it feels very much like a blog post. It feels very much like here's what I'm working on in the shop.
00:17:16
Speaker
Here's why I'm working on it. Here's the commission. Here's the aim. And here is part one of what I'm going to do. And this is all I got time to do, guys. Eric, there's a large proportion. And so hopefully the aim still remains around the work.
00:17:29
Speaker
even though I am ah speaking head figure. Sorry, go ahead. Okay. There's a lot of people though i know. Like speaking of storytelling, like there's, if you think about why people are watching your channel or your videos or will your stories, some of them are watching because they're interested in what you're making.
00:17:48
Speaker
And some of them are interested because it's you. It's that simple. They want to see what Eric's doing but today. What is it like to be a full time woodworker? What's Eric doing today? I love Eric. I love i love his devil may care attitude. I like there's he there's therere like the like- the romance. Seriously. 100%. No, no, no. That's totally fair. No. Okay. Go ahead. Finish your point. Finish your point.
00:18:14
Speaker
You know, if you talk about the story, like if we believe in storytelling, it's not only about the story of the object, it's the story of the individual where they are with their life, what they're doing with their Saturday, what they're doing, you know, I mean, I think just as many people are interested in your life as a person as they are with your object as a maker.
00:18:34
Speaker
So I think people watch your stories for different reasons.
00:18:40
Speaker
I think that's fair, but I don't think that's any different from saying the reason people read Conrad's blog is because he's a good writer and a good photographer and he has ah beautiful shop and it's well lit and there's the romance of like, what does a woodworker and a plane makers life look like? That's what I want my life to look like.
00:19:03
Speaker
It's just a different vehicle. It's the same reason people wrote right or Jesus fucking Christ. the same reason that people read Krenov's books. Like, there's no information that's going to make you a better woodworker in a cabinetmaker's notebook.
00:19:18
Speaker
It's just a fucking old Swedish guy rambling on for 90 fucking pages about nothingness. And yet, I still read that book probably once a year. Because there's something in the... I wouldn't say nothingness. There's something in the magic there. Yeah, yeah,
00:19:33
Speaker
but it But it kind of is, right? He's just like, ah, no when I was a boy, this is how the world works. No, he's making you feel more connected to the process and the emotions of like wood selection, right? That kind of stuff, as opposed to technical.
00:19:49
Speaker
He's talking about journey, not destination. Yeah. And in in Paul, I agree with the point that you're making that there are people who watch the videos they put out even when they're not good videos um because they are fans, for lack of a better word.
00:20:06
Speaker
Okay. um But like it's you you also bought a plane from Conrad because you were a fan of him and his work and the the thought that he puts in. Right. It's both. It's so so. Yeah, it's both. I got a twofer with him.
00:20:24
Speaker
Like I've got to know him personally. I think like, fuck, what an amazing human being I met. Like how lucky am i And I own his plane and I'm supposed to own another, but he's never going to fucking get to that because I'm 800 on the list of 20,000 people.
00:20:39
Speaker
Well, but but and so so I think this is this is where the frustration with social media and authenticity comes in a lot with folks is it can be a really useful tool.
00:20:53
Speaker
Justin tells really genuine stories, authentic stories about other people, and he has a very clear voice.
Challenges of Authenticity in Business
00:21:00
Speaker
He's having these long drawn out intros. that are 30 to 60 seconds long before anybody speaks a goddamn word. nobody like the The fucking click-out rate on that has got to be immense.
00:21:14
Speaker
It's bad. yeah yeah But that's not the point of the video. The point is to tell the story that you set out to to tell. Correct.
00:21:25
Speaker
Justin, I want to tell you that Vicki said to me, my wife, if for those of you don't know Vicki, ah she said to me Justin's channel, like many on Instagram is really fucking good. His stories are always interesting.
00:21:41
Speaker
She loves your content, whatever you're posting to your stories, like whether it's about friends or making shit or I don't know, horse shittery. She loves what you post to your stories.
00:21:55
Speaker
And she's not, ah you know, she's not a woodworker. She just finds the humanity of your stories to be very entertaining. I just thought I'd tell you that. Well, that's cool. That's nice. Very cool. Yeah.
00:22:09
Speaker
But I always like my stories are stupid. You tell a good stories. I love your fucking stories. You're good at photos. You're good at videos, et cetera. But are we talking about Instagram stories like the future or I have a question for what are we talk about i have a question for all three of you.
00:22:24
Speaker
Okay. All three of you. Do you watch Instagram stories? Yeah. Yes. That's more or less all I do on Instagram at this point. Okay. Are you looking for content? Meaning like, this is what I'm working on, just hands making the thing.
00:22:41
Speaker
Or when you see a front facing post where they're talking to the camera, uh, and explaining something, how do you react? Each of you, would like your, your, what do you prefer?
00:22:52
Speaker
um what's your reaction? Uh, Eric, let's start with you and we'll go to Justin and we'll go to Conrad. oh um i feel like I engage with stories in a weird way, which is i typically don't watch more than like two to three people stories in a row.
00:23:11
Speaker
um And then I dip the fuck out. But if I see. Like it's gotta be visual. It's visual. It's a visual platform, primarily audio platform, secondarily. So even though I do a lot of talking head sections in my stories, um, if I see that I'm probably not listening to it.
00:23:31
Speaker
And I'm probably like, if it's a friend, I'll put my phone down and let it ride. Okay. Now give them the view, but, but I'm not engaging with it. Like I'm not paying attention to what they're doing. So it's gotta be visual or gone.
00:23:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's a visual platform first and foremost. All right, Justin. I'm looking at my phone. If it if it was audio, I'd be listening to a podcast. I think I have a similar enough answer to Eric, and I'm also coming at it from a perspective of somebody who's not coming at woodworking from maybe like an analytical or like I'm still excited about it, but there's still so much of me to that has...
00:24:12
Speaker
a ton to learn. Believe it or not, guys.
00:24:19
Speaker
I still got a ways to go. So, you know, someone's deep diving into something. It's all ah foreign language to me. um So that kind of thing I won't stick around for, but I do really enjoy personal things. Like that's what I'm like, well, turn the volume on, you know, to Eric's point.
00:24:40
Speaker
Like I have my volume off. all the time. you know I have a day job that I'm working. I'm not listening in the office with the volume on at all. But You know, it's especially if it's a friend or, you know, somebody I'm intrigued by and they're sharing some spice, some juice, you know?
00:25:03
Speaker
that's That's a fair point. When I see the green circle, like when we post close friend stories, I'm way more apt to actually like look at it and look for the actual close friend story and pay attention to that. i Because often that's where the real humanity is.
00:25:20
Speaker
I've just come to find that like, like within the last like couple of weeks, like my engagement on my stories go up when I post to close friends. Yeah. Because Jimmy Duresta doesn't watch my stories.
00:25:34
Speaker
But when post to close friends, he watches. oh ah justin Justin, you posted a green story today and I recall being yeah i recall thinking, I wonder what it is. I knew and followed you That's what it was.
00:25:50
Speaker
Hell yeah. That's all it was. but like but you had to get through all my stories to get there but there there is like there's a weird there's a weird like psychological thing that happens though where it's like if you put that on a public story it feels like look at me i'm so cool high noon followed me right but you put that in a close friend's story and immediately my reaction was like well fucking yeah they did fucking of course that's my boy had reaction it's not for gen pop Yeah, it's not self-congratulatory.
00:26:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it is the sense of my friends, but like it just yeah feels weird to post something like that to like, hey, guess what? Everybody, you're not everybody.
00:26:35
Speaker
Conrad, how do you engage with it, buddy? Yeah. If it's somebody that I know or am interested in their work, I will usually see what they're doing. But if I see a I mean, honestly, if I see a person, Paul will probably laugh. I've got to if I go to somebody's page and they've got their nine, you know, their top nine things, if they're if their face is in four or more of them, Fuck that noise. I'm not, I will not follow.
00:27:08
Speaker
It's not, I don't, I don't want to, see I don't want to see you. I want to see what the fuck you do. Like, that's why I'm using this. yes That's why I'm using social media. I want to see what people are doing.
00:27:20
Speaker
If you've got a 10, if you've got a 10 minute video on this thing that you're working on and I, ah and i i appreciate and admire your work. I will sit and watch the whole goddamn thing because that's, I'm interested.
00:27:35
Speaker
Eric, how many did you say? i Sorry, Conrad, how many did you say? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Four is the Conrad. go i won i will say One, two, three, I think... Nah, he said top nine though. That was in the top 12. Let's be fair. and top in In the top nine. I think I've got two or maybe three exceptions to the rule.
00:28:01
Speaker
Eric, I'm an exception, baby. Eric is an exception. Yeah, absolutely. it's But so here's the interesting thing, though, is like I largely operate exactly the same.
00:28:14
Speaker
But social media isn't a like contributor to my business in that like I'm making a lot of objects. Social media is my business.
00:28:25
Speaker
Right. Right. yeah Knowing that like so once you once you dive into the deep world of like algorithms and who's posting like fake content and who's posting bullshit, there's so many.
00:28:38
Speaker
aggregators of content that they never show faces because they try to remove faces from those contents. And then like, so essentially what you're doing by showing your face is showing people that you're a real human being and not like it. Well, in this moment, you're not like AI.
00:28:57
Speaker
It's not just like fake shit. So there's a humanity level to the masses that applies there that doesn't actually apply to you and I because we're more interested in the work than we are in the human. Right. Eric, I totally see what I completely understand what you're saying. I've received a lot of feedback because my feed on Instagram.
00:29:17
Speaker
is vastly primarily not me ever on my dedicated feet. And I've been encouraged to post more. And I do find that when I post myself... by Yeah, I don't know. Psychos.
00:29:32
Speaker
But when I do, they tend to get more likes. And like, not to like, you know... give myself a pat on the back or whatever. It's like people, people do like to feel connected to the, yeah, people, people like to feel like they're supporting a person and not a, not a business entity.
00:29:53
Speaker
And that's the tricky thing. Right. So like, yeah, Conrad, your business is the things that you make and you get that one-to-one interaction. You get that human interaction when the piece is made, maybe during the making of the object.
00:30:06
Speaker
yeah But as somebody making content, we don't get that opportunity. And so the human interaction, even though it's parasocial, becomes like them seeing our face and knowing that we are a human being. Sure.
00:30:18
Speaker
talking to camera and fucking it up and making fun of ourselves for like saying the wrong thing at the wrong time and it being unscripted. All of that is what makes it part of it. I get it. yeah Yeah. Yeah. I get that. Yeah. yeah Yeah.
00:30:32
Speaker
Yeah. I, I, I also think that there is, um, part of the animosity and this is completely warranted. Um, to social media is that there are a lot of people who follow all of those steps and gain a lot of traction and in influence who don't actually have any skill because they've never developed that skill.
00:30:55
Speaker
But but so this is the tricky thing. Yeah, they are. They're used and I'm not trying to pick on anybody individually, but I'm just trying to draw the the comparison of like, The tricky thing is they are proven steps to grow an audience and also then to grow a business.
00:31:13
Speaker
And if you have skill and you are using it as a tool to make money so that you can continue to make objects, continue to make art, continue to make music, whatever the fucking thing is.
00:31:26
Speaker
Right. Like, great. All's well that ends well. Like you now have a means of income and you can continue your pursuit of your art and everybody wins again. Right. But if you don't have any skill. Right.
00:31:37
Speaker
and your aim is just simply to grow an audience, you can also still follow those steps. And a lot of people don't have the ability to discern between the two. That's exactly. Yeah, that's the problem is that people can't critique. They can't look at something, at anything and objectively critique it and evaluate it, not because they it's too distracting to see 110,000 followers or whatever the big bullshit number is.
00:32:03
Speaker
They can't see that number. they and they assume that, oh, they must be good. They've got that many people falling. Right. It doesn't mean it doesn't mean a fucking thing. It will be be able to actually look at what they're doing and look at it objectively and evaluate Is this good or not? Is it interesting? do you engage with it? Are you curious about it? is Whatever it is.
00:32:26
Speaker
But that's, I don't know where, i don't know where that's taught anymore or how people and learn that skill.
Connections and Strategies on Social Media
00:32:36
Speaker
You'd be surprised how easy it is to learn a skill when, this skill that you want to learn is how to become famous. Oh, Eric. Yeah. Well,
00:32:50
Speaker
So I think for me, for me, my four, my four faces rule is my shorthand of just cutting that out. Just get rid of it. I don't even, I'm just not even interested.
00:33:02
Speaker
Like, you know, there's lots of accounts that i you know, like if, if anybody comments on, on a post that I've done, if I don't recognize the name, I will take the five or 10 minutes. Follow it through. I'm already out.
00:33:13
Speaker
Five or 10 minutes? when I don't have five or 10 minutes to do anything. told you, Conrad is cut from a different cloth, dude. i will i will take I will take the time to just scroll through and see who they are and what they're about. And if it's interesting, then yeah, I'll pay attention to that. Or, you know, also if somebody comments, I don't know who they are, like at least say, thanks, Bill, or thanks, Lisa, or whoever, whatever. Take the time to figure out who they are.
00:33:39
Speaker
Get their first name. Because it's a conversation. It's an us it's an opportunity. Again, you're i'm trying to op push the door open. I'll crack more.
00:33:50
Speaker
guys are shaking your heads. I'm going to steal that. I'm going to go into your profiles and start calling them out for saves now. Listen. and in an in like somebody read somebody saw the time Somebody took the time to write a comment. See, we're coming from different places. No, I'm a Conrad. like I'm a Conrad. i don't i I love the idealistic world that you have built in this situation. I don't mean that condescendingly.
00:34:22
Speaker
You have culled the shit away and out of your life to the point where... um there's not all of the extra noise and that's fucking beautiful the world that i inhabit at this moment in time as a 37 year old person who exists as with social media as their primary driver of income right is the amount of dumb shit that comes across YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, whatever it is.
00:34:54
Speaker
And then the amount of stupid fucking conversations that happened between people in my feed, right? That just like it. So it all comes back to me. I see all of those notifications. yeah And then they're like screaming at each other about whatever the fuck it is. Fucking Billy in Tucson, Arizona, and how he got autism from a fucking vaccine. It's like, I don't know It was a fucking dovetail video. Like, what are we doing? So maybe it's like a new like a newstime level that I reach when people start arguing in my feed because I've unfortunately never had that. So like mine is just like, oh, wow, nice picture. So I'd love to be like, this is great.
00:35:34
Speaker
So this reminds me of, you know, when you're, when you're, taking on a furniture commission or or any type of a commission and everybody thinks the customer thinks that they are interviewing you to find out yes if, you know, if you're going to be the right person that they're going to give their money to a lot of the time they don't, ah for me at least, they don't realize I'm interviewing them just as much.
00:35:56
Speaker
Yeah. i get hundred percent. If it starts smell, that's funny. If it starts, yeah I didn't know that if it starts smelling fishy, I implement the exit strategy immediately. Because if I'm busy doing that, if I'm busy holding a hand, I don't really want to hold.
00:36:11
Speaker
That means I can't spend that five or 10 minutes looking through, oh, this person, Lisa, who I don't know, comment it on my post, it frees up the time for me to do that.
00:36:22
Speaker
And there have been a few times where ran we're randomly doing that i've actually developed actual friendships with people through some comment on instagram that's hundred so that that to me is the that eric fulfillment of the promise of social media eric that i have a habit of creating ah fake fan profiles and commenting on people's social media right buddy
00:36:52
Speaker
Hashtag Phineas. We're all going to have hobbies, okay? Conrad, you break the mold for me, buddy. so I don't know if that's good or bad, but... It's good. It's so good.
00:37:08
Speaker
it i think... i think my bullshit meter has broken. That's part of the problem. I just have no more tolerance for all the stupidity because there's so much awesome shit out there that I want to cut through the bullshit and get to all the good stuff as fast as I can.
00:37:23
Speaker
I don't think that is a problem. I mean, I think that's the goal in in life. Right. And that's what I mean. Like when I was picking on you earlier, that's why I don't mean it like ah derisively. It's no no yeah you you found a way to um minimize your interactions to the point where the interactions that do come in that are surprising are are engaging like they they could potentially be meaningful and so you have the time in the space to explore that whereas at least at this moment in my life i don't have that time and space eric part of that is is where on the funnel you are right we've talked about the funnel
00:38:04
Speaker
Right? Like, sure. At the top of the funnel is like all the, you know, funnel being like level of expertise or whatever, let's say. And at the top of the funnel is most of the woodworkers because very, you know, and as you get down towards the bottom of the funnel, it's a very few people have that advanced expertise, right?
00:38:23
Speaker
I think Conrad on the base. I don't think it's, you know what? i don't think I don't think it's expertise. Please. I think you can deliver. Please hold. Please hold.
00:38:35
Speaker
Conrad, the price of your planes. I've never seen him shoot you before. mean, like, come on, Conrad, come on. Like, come He literally just like, shh, shh, shh,
00:38:56
Speaker
by the way speaking of You can make this point, but i knew since everybody watching this is a patron, I do have an Old Daddy Greenback shirt that is exclusively for our Patreon if you're watching the video feed right now.
00:39:13
Speaker
I did not approve this by Paul. So if you want Paul's face on the Old Daddy Greenback, baby, you go purchase a bonfire right now. Oh, no! You did not! That is so good.
00:39:26
Speaker
Goddamn right I did. You can get them in green, you can get them in blue. What do you want? What you want guys? got It's gotta to be green. um that is That's merch.
00:39:42
Speaker
I'm horrified. What the fuck? I've always wanted Copper Pig March. You're the literal worst.
00:39:54
Speaker
When did you make that t-shirt?
00:39:58
Speaker
I made it a couple weeks ago. I've been holding on to it. yeah Finish your point though, brother. That is so good. i I'm stunned silent, you fucking fuck.
00:40:10
Speaker
Oh my god, that's amazing. You know how hard it was to find a shot of you where you were looking at camera head on? Oh my god. and this is why this is Hey guys, this is why photos on Instagram of your face on your profile are important, okay? This is why.
00:40:29
Speaker
Eric, I feel violated. a I'm going to have to regroup to make my point to Conrad. Conrad, before I shushed aggressively,
00:40:42
Speaker
I was making the point that your planes and their price point puts you in a group where like the arguing on Eric's profile on YouTube, they' they're kind of excluded. i don't think they're going to be buying your planes.
00:40:59
Speaker
So honestly, I think your your product and the price point of it has already separated a lot of wheat from the chaff that that that was the point I was getting to was Eric, Eric gets every everything.
00:41:13
Speaker
that That was that it. Yeah, that's true. But I also think that from the on the funnel, you can make a choice to say whether you're your expertise or not, you can say, I'm just I'm drawing a line here because for my own sanity and for I want to just I want to make a change. So I'm going to draw this line here. I'm going to do things differently and see what happens. And if it if it ends up, you know altering things in a way that I like, I get more out of it or whatever, whatever you're trying to accomplish.
00:41:44
Speaker
it it, it, I don't think it, you can reduce it down to just expertise. I mean, you're right. Price point, price point can influence that. You can certainly, um Yeah, you and I've talked a lot. on I mean, pricing a lot of the shitheads who are doing like shit on Eric's profiles and Eric comment sections of his YouTube videos are not going to pony up a few thousand dollars for a plane. They're just not there.
00:42:10
Speaker
And if they were, i don't think they'd turn or or or for or for a piece of that or for a piece of Eric's made. Yeah, I agree. right it's it's It's the nature. It's the nature of that level of exposure, really.
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah. And Eric, I would argue that the nature of your videos is already moving down the funnel. You and Keith are particularly two that come to mind where you two are YouTubers, but you're not at the top of the funnel, like trying to get all the weekend warriors.
00:42:38
Speaker
You're actually, you're actually putting out content that appeals to a much more sophisticated group. And this is, this is the, the kind of tricky part of it, or maybe it's an evolution, although evolution,
00:42:52
Speaker
yeah insinuates that that it's getting hierar or better over time and i don't want you know yeah yeah yeah um yes early on i already made mention of the fact that like there are some videos that i have out there that i'm like i i wish i hadn't taken that approach you know like it's not that it's embarrassing but it's very clearly like a learning curve, a learning moment in that video of like, here's what I did
Growth in Video Content and Storytelling
00:43:19
Speaker
wrong. Here's, here's how I baited people in a way that like, I wouldn't do now. Okay. um
00:43:25
Speaker
And, and as time has gone on, um I've refined that but the, this is the weird duality of it is like the exposure to the broad end of that tunnel by doing those things.
00:43:40
Speaker
brought in enough people where what I'm doing now is sustainable, even though it's further down the funnel. Right. So it's even though you like, like it, it was like an important step in the process.
00:43:53
Speaker
but yeah it's it Both personally as as a learning experience on how to make good videos, but also like from an exposure standpoint, that brought in enough people where now I can make a video about like the last video I put out was me making the cabinet for Sarah. And it's just like...
00:44:11
Speaker
I'm getting married to this woman. She's an incredible woman. She deserves a ah ah handmade piece of furniture because that's how I express love and affection. And that's what we're doing this week. That's it.
00:44:22
Speaker
There's seven fucking people who are going to watch that video. And yet somehow, you know, it's at 40,000 views. So like, but that's only because enough, a broader reach has happened early on where people will dip back in now because they're comfortable with where I'm at as a, as a maker, as a content creator. That's longevity slash survival that you've been doing it long enough and it's reputation. That that's those, share those are the elements as to why that's happening. i mean, that's why, you know, any of us have stuck around, you know, following somebody that we might've started following 10 years ago.
00:44:59
Speaker
We're still following them because they they do enough stuff consistently that continues to check those boxes of, yeah, you know what, whenever I see, you know, whenever I see your stuff or Paul's stuff or whatever, whenever I see certain people's stuff show up, yeah, I'm going to take the time because I i know them. i either appreciate their work. I know that it's consistently enough good content that I'm going to get something out of it or enjoy it And that only comes from time.
00:45:26
Speaker
Like, I mean, then you know, you've been doing it for a long time now or long enough, right? that Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Long enough. and And I think like when we talk about people who, how am I going to phrase this?
00:45:43
Speaker
I think this is a good point, but I realized before I said it that it might be it might come out the wrong way. What I was going to say is when we talk about people like learning the craft and getting better with time, we talk about somebody like Justin. So you see how I paused and realized He said I was the same right there. But but but like Justin, ah like you had a lot of us like objectively make fun of you for taking so long to hit 10,000 followers on Instagram. Right.
00:46:16
Speaker
But you've been making videos for what, seven years. Something like that. Yeah, yeah. it' Seven, eight years, some six six to eight years, somewhere in that range. It's been a fucking while. Yeah. And you've made a lot of them.
00:46:28
Speaker
And you, I feel like, are now at a point where we look at your body of work and we're like, fuck, that guy is good. Because Conrad, to your point, it's a consistency and it's a consistent growth where each one gets a little bit better and it's not linear, right? Like, yeah, that's right. That's that's that's the creative process.
00:46:47
Speaker
But we look now at your body of work and we go like, fuck, this guy is really good at telling these human stories. And then we look back on your earlier work, and we see it through the lens of your later work. And it makes the earlier work better because we see the growth that happens over time.
00:47:05
Speaker
So like that the exposure to that body of work is really important. And I does that happen for you without social media?
Passion and Community in the Maker Space
00:47:16
Speaker
no. no Well, does happen? does Does your ability to continue to make documentaries over the course of, say, seven years, 35 documentaries. Yeah.
00:47:31
Speaker
Does that happen without the consistent exposure through social media and making a little bit of money here and there through YouTube or Roku to reinvest in that business.
00:47:45
Speaker
Like, is is that a positive feedback loop for you? Well, I told myself right when I started that as long as... I told myself I'd give myself a year.
00:47:57
Speaker
That as long as I was still having fun and not losing money, I would keep doing it. Not... not not necessarily losing too much money.
00:48:09
Speaker
um But, because I was definitely losing money. are
00:48:22
Speaker
i don't know if, yeah, that' that's a really difficult question for me to answer, actually. i said no pretty confidently, but... I can answer that question and I'm not even related to it.
00:48:35
Speaker
yeah guys Because so from my perspective, the reason for doing a thing is because sometimes you don't actually know what it is that you're looking for.
00:48:46
Speaker
So for Justin, exposure to all of these different makers The possibility of meeting somebody or a thing or a craft or a whatever that for him is like, holy shit, I didn't even know this existed, but this is really checking all the boxes for me. I'm going to go down that rabbit hole.
00:49:07
Speaker
For me, for me that that has that is all omnipresent. It is always there, which is why I'm happy to listen to anybody talk about anything, because you don't know what you don't know. somebody I might meet somebody that tells me that they're really into turnips,
00:49:24
Speaker
I know nothing about the fucking turnips. if they got if they're all horny for turnips and they can articulate that... Horny for turnips is the t-shirt of this episode.
00:49:38
Speaker
But you know what I mean? like like To me that is that is that is the mystery and the intrigue of doing all of this stuff. Is... You never know who you're going to meet and what amazing story or amazing thing they might introduce you to that could completely change or re-guide your path.
00:49:59
Speaker
mean, that's an amazing that's an amazing thing. The possibility of that's amazing. And so if I were in your shoes, Justin, I'd be thinking, oh my God, I can't talk to enough people. What an amazing opportunity. What an amazing opportunity that is. Yeah, I totally. Yeah, that is where I come from. Yeah, I agree. So Justin, I've noticed you've been making more lately and you have a maker space in Salem. Is that correct?
00:50:25
Speaker
I do now. Yes, I do. So is this a byproduct of what Conrad was like? I was just my life like, yeah, I got there guys. So condos is just saying like, you know, being surrounded by all these passionate individuals. Is this what has like fostered like an unexpected love of getting dirty and making shit?
00:50:50
Speaker
Or trains. Totally. Yeah. no yeah Or trains. Yeah. But frankly, i wouldn't have had the confidence to get into the trains without the maker community because the there were tools necessary to create it.
00:51:03
Speaker
And also a level of confidence, blah, blah, blah. Trains, absolutely. Everything else, absolutely. It's like I've been observing of it enough now that I'm like, okay, I understand how that, ah you know, to a degree.
00:51:19
Speaker
how that tool works, you know, the safe and unsafe ways to use respect perspective um
00:51:28
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I mean, the short answer is yes, absolutely. It's I'm totally, I know this isn't what you were asking or what you were seeking, but I am a hundred percent inspired by you guys.
00:51:41
Speaker
Well, I got a horn. Corny for turnips. i'm a war order I'm so for turnips. I can't stop thinking about it. And well I mean, what's even cooler too is my girlfriend.
00:51:53
Speaker
She, we've been dating for a little over year now, right when we started dating. She wanted to make a point to watch all of my documentaries from start to finish. Very generous for her. Generally with her time.
00:52:04
Speaker
I mean, she has no woodworking background other than taking shop class in high school, which she did enjoy. and she is lucky to even be offered that. I was not offered that. But hey, too loud and dusty anyway.
00:52:18
Speaker
Nonetheless, she watched all the documentaries. And very soon after, probably a year ago this month, finished her first slab table.
00:52:30
Speaker
You know, it's got, it's got pin hair, like her hairpin legs and whatnot, but she, she, she finished the table, man. She, she, she, yeah, she'd like start to finish. I, I would offer what help air quotes I could give.
00:52:46
Speaker
And, you know, she, she wanted to do it all in a row and I, I'd give my advice and whatnot, or when she would ask for help, you know, I can, give my input, but she did it completely on her own.
00:52:58
Speaker
And she was so inspired by all of you guys. And that was so cool that like my best friends, these people who mean so much to me, um were, you know, to use the word catalyst again, were the catalyst to her now becoming a maker herself.
00:53:17
Speaker
I mean, that's cool. I i yeah have had a similar experience with Sarah in that like, yeah, before before before we met before we got together, she was not a maker of anything like she didn't she didn't have a craft. She didn't um have a ah hobby in which she was creating physical objects.
00:53:38
Speaker
And now she has taken multiple classes. She has made multiple boxes. um She's really interested in jewelry making now. Like it in it's in it. She said to me on multiple occasions like she never knew people who were so passionate about what they do. And that that passion is infectious to a degree.
00:54:02
Speaker
And now she's like, well, I want to see what what excites me in that same way. Oh, I love that. That's interesting place to be in life, right? Yeah, that that that's a great way to put it. the The passion is infectious.
00:54:14
Speaker
It is. That's why I got into it. That's why Morgan got into it. Sounds like that's why Sarah got into it. Yeah. It's awesome. It's so cool. It's so much fun. And Vicky just started on beekeeping, and I'm like all into bees Hell yeah. Yeah.
00:54:28
Speaker
Like I sit out there and I watch the bees. Like I sit out there at lunch and I like watch the bees and I'm like, wow, this is so cool that she, that my wife's into beekeeping all of a sudden.
00:54:39
Speaker
She took a class. She gets out there in the fucking little, little space cadet uniform and like smoke. Yeah. I mean, you're right. It's just passion, whether it's turnips or bees or is injunctious.
00:54:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I think we're at almost another hour, motherfuckers. we may spin this into a completely second episode, in which case we're going to have a second segment um of Justin. You came with five questions.
00:55:15
Speaker
to this original episode ah two hours ago. You came with five questions for us and we're gonna be forced to answer them short form, Conrad. Did you hear that? Short form.
00:55:31
Speaker
so I came with questions because you kind of forced me to. I've never been asked to do homework before a podcast. Oh, bitch, please. Yeah, now just imagine what it's like co-hosting with this motherfucker. Believe me, would never.
00:55:49
Speaker
okay we're going to call this the lightning round, and Justin, you're the host. Ready? go Have you ever struggled to tell your own story? What held you back? Eric, go. ah Yes, for a long time because I was afraid of, I don't even know what it was, just being self-conscious. like I didn't know how to articulate my story in a way that wasn't self-congratulatory and so I didn't want to do it.
00:56:15
Speaker
Paul. ah Yes, I struggled telling my own story because I wasn't sure what it was. And
Storytelling's Impact on Art Value
00:56:21
Speaker
until you approached me and forced me to crystallize my thinking, I had never done the hard work to put it into a framework.
00:56:31
Speaker
Conrad, do you relate? No.
00:56:41
Speaker
What's your sexual interest? Radishes. what I forgot what we even said. turnips It was turnips. Horny for turnips. Horny for turnips.
00:56:54
Speaker
Do you think storytelling plays a role in pricing and perceived value of your work? Conrad, go. Absolutely. Yeah, more it does. Like it, um, level of engagement, the experience anybody is Anybody is usually drawn into an experience.
00:57:16
Speaker
And when it's an experience that they've never had before, that has value. And often people will equate that to a monetary value. And so if that's something that you can include or provide in addition to the widget that you're making,
00:57:31
Speaker
that that has that has value and monetary value for a lot of people. And it's not a it's not ah it's not a negative consideration. Short answers, Conrad. Short answers. Sorry, sorry. lot of ands and buts on there.
00:57:46
Speaker
Hey, but as a consumer and a consumer of woodworking pieces, I totally agree. Paul, go. Absolutely. A widget is just a widget until it's got a story behind it.
00:57:58
Speaker
ah Point in case, the Pope valuables cabinet from the early sorry late 1600s sold for $2.1 million. dollars Why? Because of the story behind it.
00:58:10
Speaker
Otherwise, it's just a piece of wood.
00:58:15
Speaker
Daddy Erd? Oh, ba um yes, the the the story absolutely increases the value because otherwise, if somebody sees a piece that I made that has all of these details or decisions in it, and they don't understand the time it took for me to make those decisions and why I made those decisions, then it's just overpriced. But if they, and this is where videos come in handy, if they see the videos or hear the story of me actually doing the thing and struggling with it, then the price becomes justified. That was still shorter than your answer. got
00:58:55
Speaker
I zoned out. I don't know what... wait Wait, wait, Justin, you didn't answer the question, motherfucker. Go ahead, motherfucker. Whoa, dude, I'm the host, brother. Dude, as the host, answer the question.
00:59:10
Speaker
Justin, why does the price increase? Does the price increase the price point? ohm Sorry, the story increased the price point. Sorry, what was the question, Paul? yeah Why does the fro does the point If I can answer this, like I said, as a consumer, it like it truly does.
00:59:27
Speaker
like If I know who made it and the their story, that is so cool to me because now I can share that with somebody who is what is that box with those curly pieces of wood? And I go, have you ever heard of steam bending?
00:59:42
Speaker
That's fun to me because most people haven't. Not like normal people, not you guys. You guys are all used to it. It's still fun. Justin. Anyway, moving on. Justin. No, no, no, no, no.
00:59:52
Speaker
Justin, have you ever struggled to tell your own story?
00:59:57
Speaker
Oh, I hate talking about myself. I purposely redirect. So question number three. No! No fucking way. No way. I'm not letting you do that. I'm so locked in on you. I'm like a laser beam. Answer.
01:00:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, when people at work... asked me what you do last weekend. I like still try to put it on them. don't know why. Just like I don't I'm not good at talking about myself.
01:00:23
Speaker
Why is there not a maker documentary about you? I can't wait for the the video footage of him just in a mirror with the camera pointed back at himself.
01:00:36
Speaker
Yeah. And he's interviewing himself. But slow motion. It's got to be in slow motion. Justin, I will take the video footage. I will ask the questions of you for your maker documentary.
01:00:48
Speaker
That would be way too intense. no It's going to happen. Go ahead. Question three. Question three, still on the topic of storytelling. At least I want it to be.
01:00:59
Speaker
Do you prefer content that shows perfection or process or something more personal, but perfection your process? but How do you feel? Uh, we'll go there. Uh, perfection.
01:01:12
Speaker
Interesting. Okay. I know how to build shit. I want to aspire to things. I want the puzzle of figuring out how and why they did it.
01:01:22
Speaker
Quickly, I find that interesting because I would find that that content would normally perform worse than showing the process of making this. Oh, it will perform worse. A hundred percent. yeah But that's like the content that I create versus the content i consume are different.
01:01:37
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Totally. Yeah. Interesting. Paul. I have historically shown the perfection of the final product. It has failed miserably in social media.
01:01:49
Speaker
And because I knew that I started showing more process. And then because I feel that authenticity is super important, I share more of the why and the, like the emotional storytelling behind it lately. Yeah.
01:02:07
Speaker
Conrad. Yeah. I used to, I used to show a lot more. process, but kind of got sick and tired of it. So just show more finished stuff because it's easier, frankly, which is probably lazy on my part.
01:02:19
Speaker
But I tend to be more drawn into process. okay Conrad, I'd be perfection as well. I'd be with Eric on this.
01:02:33
Speaker
Go ahead. So perfection.
Process vs. Perfection in Content
01:02:37
Speaker
Sorry? No, I, yeah, like, well, for for myself, like I tend to just post finished stuff as opposed to like, I used to post a lot more process stuff, but it, nobody seems to really care about it anymore. So I'm, you know, I'm the algorithm makes me insane,
01:02:56
Speaker
All right. Two questions real quick, Justin, why do you only do perfection and Conrad being is the fact that you're such a huge proponent of storytelling. Why do you not tell more stories on your social media? Justin, you go first.
01:03:12
Speaker
I think that, i don't know, my my answer is less interesting because I come from a place of ignorance. So I'd rather, it's more interesting for me to see like copper pig puzzle box and how to get through it than Here's how I made this miter and I did this dovetail and this and that. Like I'm i'm saying words. I don't even know what they mean.
01:03:35
Speaker
Just kidding. It sounds good. but yeah um But yeah, no, like if I, if I, if I were to see a ah Conrad plane, that to me is going to be more like shiny and beautiful and sexy than like,
01:03:51
Speaker
All right, now here's you know a video shot from my phone and you're going to spend 30 seconds of your time. And we all know Conrad's got five minutes to spend on strangers all day long. um
01:04:06
Speaker
So Conrad, given as though you like to spend time on strangers, why do you show so little storytelling in your social media? Uh, because i'd I choose to spend my time storytelling with the customers that I'm working with at any given moment.
01:04:21
Speaker
Got it. It's, it's, it's just, it's a better use of my time. And, and there, I mean, it is, it is my business. Like that's what I'm doing. And so that, that is always being the focus.
01:04:34
Speaker
Um, it's just, you know, doing it via social media, just, yeah, i I don't know. I've kind of lost a little bit of interest in it. It, yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure why, but good answer.
01:04:45
Speaker
<unk> fair yeah Do you think the maker community is getting better or worse at authentic storytelling as it grows? Paul. Worse.
01:04:57
Speaker
as as more people are goingnna say As more people start to try and use social media as an income generator, the lowest common denominator gets lower and the level of skill drops and drops and drops and it's very upsetting to me.
01:05:13
Speaker
Yeah. I mean,
Authenticity in the Maker Community
01:05:14
Speaker
I think the authenticity, the word we keep using, it gets less and less. It's more for clicks in my opinion, but Eric Conrad, you go first.
01:05:24
Speaker
yeah you yeah that's fine I actually don't know because I don't follow that many makers actually. Like, I mean, I mean, there are people who are making things, but it's, it's usually completely unrelated to woodworking.
01:05:42
Speaker
So it's it's just in in other areas and other realms. And usually it's people that I know. um Just because it's just too many people to manage, frankly. It's a it's a time thing. That's fair. It is a time thing. It's impossible to follow yeah that many people.
01:05:58
Speaker
I. i think it might be both i think it's getting less authentic in that the formula for success is becoming codified and so people can follow that and they can just be a personality and not a human but also it's now reached a point where it is no longer like a niche thing.
01:06:28
Speaker
Like being being a content, we don't call it influencer anymore, right? We call it content creator. It's less it's less derogatory. And so it's becoming more mainstream. And we are realizing the value, even if you are not a full-time content creator, the value of it toward your business.
01:06:47
Speaker
um And because the barrier of entry is still so low, I think that there are more people who are authentically themselves on social media than there ever have been.
01:07:00
Speaker
But those people don't garner large audiences often, right? Because the formula is now codified for how to grow an audience. yeah So both things are happening simultaneously.
01:07:11
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. So as a follow up to that, I probably on like the, um the amount of time that I'm on Instagram, I bet you three quarters of that time is spent interacting with individuals via DM versus scrolling and doing whatever else. So that's, a again, that's going back to that one-to-one connection and the number of times where, you know, meeting somebody on Instagram, which sounds insane to say that out loud, but then actually meeting them in person and then you pick up where you left off and continue via Instagram.
01:07:50
Speaker
That is that happens enough that I don't flush the whole thing down the toilet. I mean, because two two out of the three of you I met on Instagram for the first time and then we met in person and the person I'm about to marry, i met on Instagram first.
01:08:08
Speaker
Right. And then, you know, so like, I know it is a real vehicle for human interaction. Absolutely. That's exactly, which is why I don't flush it. Cause it happens enough where you have actual meaningful, genuine human connections that turn into something tangible and real, which is why I don't toss it.
01:08:32
Speaker
Dang.
01:08:36
Speaker
All right, well, the last question we've been recording for for two and a half fucking hours. Eric's cutting off the fifth question. Oh, no, that was but that the fourth question? Is this episode four? Oh, my bad. we at episode four?
01:08:53
Speaker
Alright, alright, hit us with the fifth question. Alright, we'll make it quick and Eric, you're answering first because you deferred to Conrad and this is your punishment. What's one maker's story, but it can be related to tools, a piece, anything you want. What's one maker's story that's stuck with you and why? Oh boy.
01:09:09
Speaker
don't know that I have a good answer for that.
01:09:13
Speaker
That's a really hard question. It's difficult to pick one too. Yeah. Because there could be so many. Okay, I can let you think if anybody else has an answer.
01:09:24
Speaker
Or if not, I can speak real quick. Go ahead. Justin, go. If you have what an answer. I think a maker story that stuck with me is our buddy, ah listener of the podcast, Larry Tkachik.
Inspiring Story of Larry Tkachik
01:09:36
Speaker
I heard his story um on a separate podcast, a musician's podcast years and years ago. And his son is a touring musician and tragically lost his leg in a tour bus accident with a semi truck.
01:09:51
Speaker
Fairly gnarly. And with hospitals held and even a doctor who's a drummer himself and dedicated to getting his son back to his career path. It just wasn't working out.
01:10:07
Speaker
But Larry just would not let his son give up his his dream and his career and his lifestyle. So Larry came up with, you know, he's got this woodworking background and was a hobbyist woodworker and came up with something fairly rudimentary that he would end up developing into something that now his son and the rest of the band are back touring internationally constantly and i think that's such a rad thing that was a podcast i heard before the pandy the pandy happened and years went by it was probably the longest
01:10:48
Speaker
just waiting around episode that ever happened. you know It took a long time to actually come to life, but it happened. And that one really sticks with me because that's father-son bond.
01:11:01
Speaker
I don't know. It was ah it was really cool. The comment about Larry as a person, So I reached out to him saying I enjoyed his episode. And he started chatting with me la Conrad Sauer, who like chats with everyone in this doy meaningful way.
01:11:16
Speaker
And Larry took a vested interest in my work. And recently, he sent me a care package ah came in the mail, he's like, i want to send you something. And I opened it. And it was all the makings of a shaker oval box.
01:11:32
Speaker
And he's like, I think you could reinvent this form. And I wanted to give you like a head start. Like I didn't want you like, here's all the here's the wood.
01:11:42
Speaker
Here's the bending forms. Here's the copper tax. Here's everything you need. And it came in a box. And Larry gave me that gift because he believed in my ability to reimagine classical forms.
01:11:54
Speaker
And he wanted to see what I would do with it out of the goodness of his heart, just out of nowhere. He's an amazing person.
01:12:02
Speaker
Well, but he he heard your story, dude. And you know, and he he he admires you. But Justin, who does shit like that? Like, like that is so. I know. I know. Larry's a great guy. Yeah. Larry's the best. we we can Paul, like, you're the type of person who does shit like that.
01:12:22
Speaker
Yeah, but Eric, if you and so is Conrad and and Justin, all like all of us, but it's so few and far between. So when you meet someone like that, you're just in awe of their generosity, like sure. And you feel so appreciative to know these people.
01:12:40
Speaker
Yeah, but the best yeah the best response for any of us that have been on the receiving end of that is to just pay it all forward. Yeah. i mean, that's, yeah, that's because you can't like, I don't know, I've been the recipient of stuff like that so many times.
01:12:55
Speaker
And i can't, you can't even put a monetary value on that. All I can do is just try and find a way to pay it forward for somebody else because that's the only option there is.
01:13:06
Speaker
But what an amazing, what an amazing thing when that happens. Yes. It's really cool. No kidding. Let's end on that. You guys. Good juju.
01:13:17
Speaker
Well, thank you Larry. Larry, thank you for being the person you are and Conrad and John Slayer bear. Thank you for an X, like a two and a half hour episode on the importance of story. Is this one episode or two episodes? It's two. I'm going to break. It's three. Isn't it three? Okay.
01:13:36
Speaker
We're going to open up a full episode with us just bullshitting about whatever the fuck we opened up on this after show on. the first episode, like the first legit episode went for an hour and like 20 minutes. And then we're going to record an after show. And the after show just went for an hour and 10 minutes. So I think we'll break it into two episodes.
01:13:57
Speaker
Thank so much. The bookend, baby. That's storytelling. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye.