Transcript
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Here we are. It's going to get hot and heavy tonight. i just have this feeling in my gut.
The Influencer: We're back in black, baby.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We're back after all quite a long hiatus. yeah
The Influencer: It's been a summer break.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: This is Woodworking is Bullshit, your favorite podcast about creativity, art, design, philosophy, the mental side of what we do, not necessarily how we do. I'm your host, Paul Jasper, Copper Pig Woodworking, scientist by day, woodworker by night, and I have my boy, Eric Curtis, in the chair, fine furniture maker and content creator.
The Influencer: What is popping, Playboy?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric, we haven't recorded an episode for real in like a month and a half.
The Influencer: Oh, it's been, my it's like, I think it's been over two months.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Is it two months?
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And it feels rusty, if I'm being honest.
The Influencer: Uh-huh. I think you just said copper pig by day, woodworker by night, I think.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Did I?
The Influencer: So.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, no, I think of... Did I? Shit, I don't know.
The Influencer: yep.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'll have to listen to it back. Yeah, it's a little rusty, kids. we've we've been We've been doing summer shit for two months.
The Influencer: yep yep
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We knew this was coming, so...
The Influencer: i haven't I haven't made any form of content in almost three months now. So I'm rusty as fuck. I don't remember where I swear on the internet and where I don't. So, you know, it's going to be wild.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I was just on a podcast where it was pretty clear I wasn't supposed to swear and it was so hard not to swear.
The Influencer: Oh, no. Oh, got guys, guys, I am so grateful that this is a safe space for my like, just inane, terrible potty mouth to exist on the internet.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It's, it's hard to not swear when you talk for like two and a half hours.
The Influencer: Yeah, it's also just hard for me not to swear at any point in life.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: It's so hard.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Fuck, fuck that. Right.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right. Well, you know, tonight, uh, today, tonight, yes, it is night.
The Influencer: Are you good, bro?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Uh, tonight we have, ah sorry, dude. Like I'm, I'm stone cold sober. I'm not drinking. Cause I just got drunk two nights ago and I was like sick for a day from it.
The Influencer: Oh, so did I, but I'm rallying for the troops, man.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, I'm drinking water.
The Influencer: Come on. Don't be a little bitch, buddy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, no, no. You're I'm going to see you in a few days and we're going to drink then.
The Influencer: I know. I know. Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right, so I'm rolling sober, and tonight's episode is an episode of ah and ah an episode an episode of
The Influencer: Have a seat.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah my god of Barstool Confessions, where Eric and I get real with each other. The Barstool Confessions series. is about authenticity between two friends, as if you know we're back at the bar.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And ah to be honest, the last few times we recorded Barstool Confessions, I sort of forgot we were recording a podcast, which is kind of nice.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And today's episode, I had a whole new concept.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Today's called 10 Truths. And Eric and I have each come with five statements or questions or who knows what. I don't know what he's bringing. He doesn't know what I'm bringing to the table, but 10 Truths in some way.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And we're going to pop it on the other person and see see how they react and see where it goes. ah Because these are things we've been thinking about like a lot lately, cogitating. You know how you get a ah thought like kind of stuck in your head or you might have heard it somewhere or someone said it to you.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And the more you think about it, the more it like affected you personally. And you just kept thinking about it over and over. And maybe it became part of your personal like philosophical ethos, like maybe it really hits you so deeply that you'll think about that forever. And, and maybe it's here today and gone tomorrow. But anyway, I came with five of my favorites and Eric, I'm assuming you came with five of your favorites and we're going to go through them.
The Influencer: I sure did. It's going to be interesting. Uh, they're not necessarily related to woodworking in any way, shape or form. They're just life statements.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mine are life statements, but I think they do have parallels or applications in woodworking.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: How about yours?
The Influencer: Okay. Um, I agree. Two of mine are very much directly related to my own work. So they are woodworking statements. Um, the other three are, I think definitely you can draw philosophical meaning or, or parallels, um, to the craft that we love that inhabits so much of our lives.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: So, yeah,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right. You ready, bad boy?
The Influencer: let's fucking do this cowboy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right.
The Influencer: Are you, are you breaking the seal or am I?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm going to go first.
The Influencer: Oh boy. Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You ready?
The Influencer: Hit me.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Inspiration is perishable.
The Influencer: oh Oh, so this is an agree, disagree statement. Inspiration is perishable. Yes. Hard. Yes. Agreed. 1000%. Um, are is that like, am I just agreeing, disagreeing?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's it?
The Influencer: And then you, you're defending, responding.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah No, no. I mean, no no. We don't necessarily have to be on the opposite sides of the coin, but it was Naval Ravikant I heard say this on a podcast recently. He said, inspiration is perishable.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You really have to act on it when it hits if you're going to get extract the most out of it. And the more I thought about that, I reflected on times where I had this really great idea And I didn't act on it because oh I'm too busy. I'll get to it eventually.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And over time that that hot, exciting thought slowly cooled off and disappeared. And
The Influencer: Did you ever come back around to executing that idea or or exploring it or playing with it or did it just fade into the ether?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Once or twice it came back around, but ah more often than not, it disappears and the the the enthusiasm disappears with it.
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I thought, wow, that's a profound, like I never really thought of inspiration like that, that inspiration has a time a timeline to it or a time dependence to it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And when, you know, we always like to say that the best work is inspired work, right? We like to say that in the field.
The Influencer: Yeah, I don't always agree with it, but we do say that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: um But I think there's truth there because when you're inspired, you put the most into it. Like you're so excited.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You're so jazzed to get that message out to to see. And it it fades over time. Anyway, you know, now that and I think about it all the time. So when I feel that tickle of inspiration in the back of my head about something, I do try to at least take a step to get it started.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: rather than like, let it die.
The Influencer: The tickle of inspiration is one of my favorite OnlyFans channels, but that's neither here nor there. so the. i so the question of whether it is perishable or not, I think for me largely depends on if the inspiration is in the form of a question or exploration or if, or if the inspiration is a complete idea.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
The Influencer: And so like, if I see it in my head, like if it hits me one day and I've got a couple of these floating around in my brain at the moment, I know that that thing can live unadulterated in the back of my mind for a long period of time until I clear room in my schedule to do it. And sometimes that might be a couple of months. Sometimes that might be a couple of years.
The Influencer: Um, But if it if it like comes kind of fully formed, then I have no problem letting it germinate and maybe even evolve into something that I haven't quite seen yet as it's sitting back there.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I see.
The Influencer: Whereas if it's a question, like if it's excitement inspiration, if it's a question of like, is this possible? What happens if, if I don't act on that soon, then that interest fades away.
The Influencer: So I think that, yeah, that perishability is like...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's a really good distinction. i like that.
The Influencer: like inspiration versus excitement, though maybe that's not exactly the right way to phrase it You know what I'm trying to hit on?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, but i I think you're right, though. It's like if you have an inspired, like a moment of excitement, of inspiration about and a new idea, that's perishable. But more sober, kind of like long-term developmental inspired ideas, they take time to develop and blossom and it may take months.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: to really flesh it out. So you've kind of distinguished inspiration into two axes, like that kind of like a hot, excited moment, momentary jazz thing.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And then the more sober, more, you know, wisdom experienced slowly unfurling kind of.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
The Influencer: Well, and I and i think that it is experience. um I think that's a fair way to categorize it because there are times where you like you just see the thing. or i mean, do you does this happen to you where like you the idea, the form, the visual happens in your brain and you see it and you go, oh, okay. like I already know that's a good piece.
The Influencer: I don't even have to explore it. The idea is now there and it can just sit. And when I get around, when I... when i create the space to make it, I know it's still going to be a good piece in six months.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: Whereas again, the thing of like, Ooh, this is a really sexy piece of wood or, Oh, it would be really interesting if I tried to do this and I don't know if it'll happen that, that can fade away rather quickly, that level of excitement or intrigue.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, again, i would say the more experimental, the the crazier the idea, the more it has a tendency to fade.
The Influencer: Hmm. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Whereas the more established, well thought out ideas have more staying power, because I know they're good ideas.
The Influencer: Does that, does that happen to you though? Like, do you, does a fully formed like visual idea pop into your head from time to time and you just go like, oh, okay.
The Influencer: I know that's going to be a good piece.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: Like how does, how does that inspiration manifest for you on that end of the spectrum?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, whole, whole ideas don't come to me usually.
The Influencer: No.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Just little, little snippets of idea.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah Well, I don't know, actually, maybe, maybe.
The Influencer: Well, so is it, is it always necessary for you?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and don't know, it's hard to say. gotta...
The Influencer: Like, is it imperative that you act on inspiration when it's there then?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, I, is it imperative? I've noticed things fade. I don't know ever. All I can tell you is since I heard Naval say that I've realized that that's true for me and that I've been acting on inspiration when it's hot, when it's there a lot more recently because of that statement.
The Influencer: Hmm.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I'm, cause I'm so bummed to have like inspiration's a gift to feel inspired.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I think is one of life's better moments.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: but like Life can be so boring and so mundane and so um you know regimented and the same thing every day that to feel that inspiration to me is like a gift.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And so I don't want to squander those moments because they're kind of few and far between.
The Influencer: How do you... um how do you square that with having commissions to fulfill?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah. Yeah. I've been taking less and less commissions.
The Influencer: Yeah, I know.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah
The Influencer: I know. You son of a bitch.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's how I've been squaring it.
The Influencer: ah Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I basically don't take commissions to allow myself the freedom to explore what kind of excites me in the moment.
The Influencer: Yeah.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: How about you?
The Influencer: That's, that's the benefit of the job, baby.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: um Well, currently i am, I'm in one of those moments of inspiration and I just said, fuck it. I'm going to do it anyway. Cause I have to like it. There are times where, um, you just recognize I should speak from the first person. This is why I've spent years in therapy to not have my experience exist in the second person or the third person.
The Influencer: right. So I am in, uh, one of those moments and I need to get those things out of my system. This is, this is why i am a woodworker in, in,
The Influencer: um no small reason is is because in those, well, this this kind of comes into my first truth. So let's let's let's focus it into the second truth.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, let's, let's. Sure.
The Influencer: um
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Number two.
The Influencer: Number two, my best work often, though not always, comes from the most difficult experiences of my life.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: oh but Oh, God, really?
The Influencer: And so not always now I want to be careful because I don't, well, I don't want to perpetuate the stereotype of the tortured artist, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
The Influencer: Cause I don't think that's helpful or useful.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah
The Influencer: I think it's dated. However, the reason that part of the reason I do what I do is because in moments of turbulence, Woodworking is a vehicle to expel some of those things and a a created meditative space to reflect on some of those things and work through them.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
The Influencer: Do you find that true for yourself?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No.
The Influencer: No, not at all.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No.
The Influencer: Interesting.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: When I'm hurting or in a tough place or in turmoil, the last thing I feel like doing is woodworking.
The Influencer: Hmm. Hmm. What do you do instead?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: i i
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: what i think I think I listen to philosophy. I try to think of different ways. Like, why is this bothering me? Should it be bothering me? What does it say about me that it is bothering me?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah What if I didn't care? Why do I care? I'm going to die in the next 30, 35 years and no one's going to care that I'm dead. Like, What does this matter? It's not that serious. I like to look at pictures of the earth floating in the Milky Way or you know, sorry, you know, the earth in outer space and think about the solar system and think about just nothing's that and nothing's that serious, Paul.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like, really? But but yet I'm a human and I have human emotions and I can't deny that. But. I just try to flesh it out. Like I try to drill down using whatever means I can, whether it's visual or ah other people or philosophical or thinking about therapy type questions to try and drill down to the essence of what's bothering me and try to unearth unearth the fossil that is you know and and woodworking i don't know like i enjoy woodworking when when i'm happy like i'm in a good mood and i i just everything's free and clear like everything's buttoned up like my job's good and my family's good hey let's let's make something and it's it's a happy space and my best work has nothing to do with like when i'm in dark times
The Influencer: So
The Influencer: Sure. It's a happy space. It's a safe space. Yeah. Yeah.
The Influencer: So do you think your best work, so flip it then, do you think your best work exclusively comes from when your life is like streamlined, everything is great, everything is one, and you are free and clear to think about woodworking?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Because when everything's buttoned up, like I view life as a like a multidisciplinary optimization problem.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. Like, right.
The Influencer: Fucking nerd.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, no, shut up. they Now they think like, think about you're flying a plane. Okay.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: i Like you and I have never flown a plane, but you, you, you know what the cockpit looks like, right?
The Influencer: Yep.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: Yep. Yep.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. And there's all these dot dials and gauges and ga gauges and dials and gizmos and gadgets. And I think about that's like a metaphor for my life. There's all these dials, like going from like terrible to like great.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And it's like, how you doing as a dad? Terrible to great.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: How's your job? Terrible to great. How's your health? How's your marriage? How's your daily life happiness? How's your creativity? How do you look physically? How do you how good a friend are you to others?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and there's all the And how good a family member are you? And like all these dials, right? Going from I'm doing horrible to like I'm doing amazing. I'm a total rock star.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But they're all interrelated because you only have so much time and attention in a day. And so much emotional energy. So it's like a multi, it's like a multi dimensional optimization problem where you're trying to optimize the most gauges to be in the happy green zone at the same time.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And anytime, right, right.
The Influencer: But they can't all be there at the same time, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But anytime you put too much into one gauge, the other start dropping, right?
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And so, So that's kind of how I see my life. And I'm always trying to optimize everything to all be in the in the green zone at the same time, you know, as best I can. And when everything is buttoned up and looking good and like everyone's taken care of, like my daughter, I spent time with my daughter and she's happy and she's doing well in school and I'm being a good dad and the house is clean and my wife and I have spent time together. And, you know then I feel like let's go make something awesome. Awesome. Right? Cause it's like, everything's great. Let's, let's put this time into something even more joyful, which is making let's, yeah. So I think my best work comes when everything's dialed in.
The Influencer: Interesting.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Now you're,
The Influencer: i i I don't disagree. I think I can produce really good work when everything is dialed in. Um, but what I find is in those moments where, ah things are chaotic, like you, you seek information, you you know, look at the universe as a landscape and figure out how small we are and how meaninglessness is, is, you know, overwhelming, um, in that kind of,
The Influencer: puts it into perspective, um which is like, i I do similar things. But what I know about myself is as I'm working through those things, my body needs something to do, because that is when my mind works best and clearest.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: And so I think that's why it becomes a cathartic effort is like, this is a thing that I know that I can do really well.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: When your body's moving.
The Influencer: And so if my body is doing that it creates the space for my mind to work through things.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I think a lot of people will relate to that.
The Influencer: Yeah, I mean it was the same reason why like when I'm thinking about things and I'm not in the shop, I'm wandering around the streets of Philly. Like I'm just walking because my body needs to expel that anxious energy and it needs to be able to clear, like free my mind up to actually think properly rather than just be overwhelmed by everything.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, you were the kid who couldn't sit still and I was the kid who sat still forever, right?
The Influencer: Uh huh.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: like
The Influencer: So so what like does your body need to do things when you're thinking about those things?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No.
The Influencer: You just sit and think.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm. Yep.
The Influencer: what That is so fucking foreign to me.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like... well Well, no, dude, that's why like i that's why I was well-suited to be a scientist because being a scientist and and the whole grad school and PhD thing is hours upon hours upon hours of focused mental attention doing nothing physically.
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You're reading for like four, six hours studying without a break, you know not without getting up. And for some reason, I'm okay with that.
The Influencer: That is actually like if somebody wanted to develop the most specific torture chamber for me, it is here's this like grand universal truth that you have to wrestle with and you cannot fucking move.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It's got to be genetic. My daughter does it too.
The Influencer: It has to be really.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I see her study. She sits down at that table. She doesn't get up for three hours. Doesn't even look up.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm like, dude, do you...
The Influencer: Again, again, that could not be the like further to the opposite side of my human experience.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, I really do think there's genetic under underpinnings to some of these tendencies we have.
The Influencer: Yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay, um next one.
The Influencer: Hit me.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Are you ready? Oh, Eric. Okay.
The Influencer: Oh boy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay, here goes.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: There are no problems, only situations and the labels we put on them.
The Influencer: There are no problems. Only situations in the labels we put on them.
The Influencer: All right. might So I have two initial reactions. Um, The first is i don't think I disagree with that, like on a daily basis, right? Like there are good days, there are bad days. There are things that annoy you and you have to kind of take a look at yourself and your life and what's happening in the day and ask why these things are annoying you. And then you realize they're not actually a problem. It's just like, this is just life. Like life is inconvenient sometimes. And you can accept that and move on and be more gracious to the people around you.
The Influencer: However, I would also say that you and i have experienced in our lives as individuals, actual real problems that have been really difficult to, um,
The Influencer: they took many years to come to peace with and eventually overcome. And i think it's difficult almost borderline offensive to say that those are not problems, just labels.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I mean, they were occurrences, let's say.
The Influencer: Sure. They were events.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: they were so They were events and situations in which something happened that didn't square with our expectation or our hope or our view or our system of beliefs or our value judgment.
The Influencer: Sure.
The Influencer: Sure. Sure.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And so someone cuts you off. Let's say you're driving. Someone cuts you off. I know a lot of people who are like, oh, motherfucker. Like i'm I'm having a conversation with someone in the car, let's say, and we're side by side.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And we're talking about something really awesome. And someone cuts them off they're like, oh, motherfucker, this bastard, look at this bastard. And like like it interrupts the conversation. It tells you as the the participant in the conversation that what you're saying is not that important.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And that they're making a problem where there didn't have to be. That's like a ah small example.
The Influencer: sure
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like someone cutting you off is a situation.
The Influencer: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You could just call you. You don't have to put a label on it as good or bad. It just is. Someone pulled in front of me with a little space between the cars and You could argue it was a dangerous or it's not dangerous. It just, but to call it like, it this is an example and to call it a problem and to interrupt our conversation and to break the flow and to lose the good juju we had talking about something all because someone like, that's just dumb. Like, why are we doing that? That's just a poor use of time.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That is not how you want to be spending your life. And so like, that's a little version. So it's like, let's extrapolate out. You break your arm. Is that a problem? Well, it's a situation, that's for sure. It's inconvenient because you had plans.
The Influencer: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So it's almost all about like what your preconceived ideas were and whether life, you know, ah satisfied them. And if it doesn't, it's a problem, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: think I'm, have a feeling a lot of people are going to disagree with me. ahead.
The Influencer: I, but, but I do disagree with you. Like the example that you used is a perfect example, right? Like, and I'll give you another example.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ahead
The Influencer: Uh, today there's this little spot in my neighborhood called little Susie's pies and they make like little ham pies, make a little sausage, egg and cheese, a little like apple pie, little coffee joint, delightful place, delicious stuff.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and Okay.
The Influencer: And I went there and they make this, uh, like apple little pie. That's fucking delicious.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: And I went there like, you know, lunchtime is maybe like 12, 1230. And
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yep.
The Influencer: and Just to be a ah nice guy, this guy walked up at the same time I walked up and I said, no, please, you go first. Go ahead.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yep.
The Influencer: And he got an apple pie and it was the last motherfucking apple pie.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yep.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: And that's why I had gone to Little Susie's that day.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, but is that a problem?
The Influencer: And well, that's the thing. That's not a problem. It's an inconvenience at best, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It's an opportunity to try something else.
The Influencer: To go get a different thing, for sure, for sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: And I did and it was delightful. Not a problem, an inconvenience. Let me paint a different example, and this is where I'm going to disagree with you.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: um Somebody in my, like, close to my life, um I just found out that they are currently having an affair, ending their marriage, and ah basically stealing money from their 11-year-old son's college fund.
The Influencer: That... Doesn't matter how you fucking label it. What that person just did is fuck over not only their family, but their son specifically, their only child.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The Influencer: Steal money from them. and run away with some lady who has five kids and lives in a trailer. And fun fact only has one leg, but, uh, that's just a sidebar.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: What? Okay. Okay. ha oh what
The Influencer: Cause I'm judging both of them right now.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: okay
The Influencer: Uh, so the, like, that that's, that's, uh,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric, you got some weird ass friends.
The Influencer: But that's it doesn't matter how you label it, how zen you get about life. That's not not a problem. And that that particular child, unfortunately, is going to have years, if not decades, of anger to work through toward his father for this situation.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay, so you're...
The Influencer: And I know because it's not that dissimilar from what my father did to my family.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Excellent.
The Influencer: so I very much empathize with this situation.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Excellent. Excellent. So you're you're basically arguing that there's an intensity to the situation, at which point, like it passes a certain intensity, at which point you can't Zen your way out of it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It represents a serious problem.
The Influencer: Yeah, yeah. and and And I think um when people try to, and I don't think this is necessarily always people trying to like look at a Zen situation for somebody else.
The Influencer: I think people do this to themselves oftentimes. They try to convince themselves like everything is fine instead of actually contending with the issues at hand because they don't they don't want to label it a problem because it's hard.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: Like once you label a thing a problem, like you're ethically responsible for contending with the thing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, Eric, I think it's the opposite. I think everyone calls everything a problem. And 99% of them are not fucking problems.
The Influencer: Well, there's also that. Yeah.
The Influencer: That, yeah, I agree with that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: it's your It's the weak sauce you're pouring on your whole fucking life being like, oh, this is problem.
The Influencer: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: um you know They didn't have the bagel I wanted.
The Influencer: every Everybody's a victim, Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: they Yeah, they didn't have the this person cut me off. Oh, I have to stop and get gas. Yeah. was like, these are not problems.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah Like, cut off you know cut off your leg and start bleeding to death. Like, that's a problem. Or like, you know, like have a family member undermine institution of the family such that the child will require years of therapy.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay, I give you that.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: that's That's a pretty intense situation.
The Influencer: That's a problem, man.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: You know?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: And that's...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I just I just I just hear everyone bitching all the time to the point that I don't want to be around negative people anymore. I want to be around optimists, positive thinking people.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: When there's a slight inconvenience, don't call it a problem. Think about it like it's just it just is. Or think about it as an opportunity to like extend your comfort zone.
The Influencer: I, to that extent, I agree with you wholeheartedly. This is the, for a similar reason. Um, I refuse to give myself a label regardless of what happens.
The Influencer: Um, give myself the label of a victim. Like I hate, the idea of qualifying myself as a victim, even if I am like somebody took advantage of me in whatever situation.
The Influencer: um Because I think for me personally, i have seen too many people put themselves in that headspace and be incapable of getting out of it, even when it's not actually a problem.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm. Hmm.
The Influencer: It's just an inconvenience. So to that extent, I agree. All right, moving on.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. Number four.
The Influencer: Number four. right. ah This one is, again, directly related to woodworking.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: The quality of output and the quantity of output oscillate in the hierarchy of importance.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Whoa. ah wait The quality of the output and the quantity of the output oscillate. it again.
The Influencer: In the hierarchy, ah oscillate in their hierarchy of importance.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oscillate.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So they jockey back and forth.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: The quantity and quality. they They fight for what's most important through your career.
The Influencer: Hmm. Sometimes, sometimes putting out, putting out numbers is the most important thing for you in that headspace for me in that headspace.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oof.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oof.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, wow.
The Influencer: But sometimes you also have to slow down and recognize that the quality of the work you need to put out in a given moment trumps the deadline.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow. I've never thought of that before.
The Influencer: I just thought about it before this call.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah like
The Influencer: So,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric, that's a good one. Is that to make you feel better does yourself feel better for not putting out any content? Is that because you've been a deadbeat?
The Influencer: take Took all summer just being a fucking deadbeat.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Is that because you've been a deadbeat for three months
The Influencer: Yeah, the quality of output and the quantity of output have both hit zero over the summer. so
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric says, Confucius says, When deadbeat, quantity nor quality important, but but but time with friends. Yeah, okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Sounds good, buddy. um You know, the thought the one thought that did hit me when you talked about the changing role of whether it's quantity or quality is most important.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: um
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, the thought that came to me is when sometimes you need to be in a production mindset, right? um to make money, let's say right?
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: um And when you're in a production mindset, a lot of quality ideas come to mind. How can I optimize this? How can I make this process better to get a better product a better quality product?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So they're really linked, like in a production, you know, you know because we've we've talked about this
The Influencer: I agree with you 100%.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right.
The Influencer: ye
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Because when you're doing the quantity, the quality thoughts come with it. And when you're obsessing over quality, you in sometimes I just feel frustrated. Like I just want to bang some shit out because like I love this piece so much.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I would love to make 10 of them. So 10 people could enjoy it or I could make 10 times what, you know, the money or yeah they're intimately linked, I think, is my takeaway.
The Influencer: I agree with you. And I, my, my default mode is quantity over quality, but that's only because I trust the quality of my work. That's only because for years it was the opposite.
The Influencer: And so I know that I at least hit a a floor of quality that I'm comfortable with.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: And so, so putting out higher numbers generally then produces whatever dopamine effects and and frees my brain up to do other things. And then I can come up with quality ideas to your point. um But there are times where, again, like now, when you when you hit those moments of inspiration that you have to I have to stop worrying about a deadline, stop worrying about how many videos I'm going to put out. And I just need to block off a period of time and make this in like, like truly sit with the thing and pay attention to it and figure out what it wants to be and what I need it to be.
The Influencer: And that is invariably a fucking glacial process. Like you can't it just takes so fucking long. And again, i think that's where most of the best work I've ever created comes from in those moments of just.
The Influencer: unfiltered focus, like hyper fixation and, and the, the, the speed at which I work goes out the window so that I can produce something that's maybe it's new, maybe it's new for me. Maybe it's, um, you know, something that needs to just get out of the system, but whatever it is, like, that's where the quality overtakes the quantity.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Great. That was a good one. I like that one. I'm going to be thinking about the the relationship between quantity and quality in the shop from that one. That's good. All right.
The Influencer: Okay. All right.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You ready for number, what that was number four. You ready for number five?
The Influencer: That was number four. Hit it, playboy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right, Eric.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
The Influencer: ah foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: it's a quote It's quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson from his essay Self-Reliance. And it means that rigid, unthinking adherence to like past beliefs or ways of ah doing things stifles personal growth, creativity, and truth-seeking.
The Influencer: Hit me with it one more time.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
The Influencer: The...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Are there little things you do And you won't, you you're unwavering in doing them. Yet you're not exactly sure why you do them. You don't have a real strong ethos behind it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But it just makes you feel good to do it. Like, I think that's kind of like...
The Influencer: The whiskey in my hand right now feels pretty good.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, no, because that has a a known effect. It makes you feel fucking great.
The Influencer: Sure, sure, sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's like borne out. But like i I got thinking about this, a foolish consistency. Like, do I do things that are not are not backed up by either science or ah out?
The Influencer: Like what? Give me give me give me an example.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Um, is there, are there any ritualistic behaviors? I don't have, I don't have, because I don't do that.
The Influencer: I don't have to do that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, I don't know Maybe I do. I don't know. are Are there any ritualistic behaviors you have with woodworking or your life or in the shop that aren't really borne out by any data to say that that's the best way to do it?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Um, I, this, this immediately made me think of some, of, of woodworking. Okay. And that's why I brought this up because we're told so often. You can't do it that way.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You got to do it this way. No, you can't do that. You got to do this. Oh, you can't have that tool. That tool sucks. You got to have this. Like how many lies did you have to cut through when you were learning woodworking that turned out not to be true once you actually tried it?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And how many things have you heard that you just did? You're like, ah, all right. They said it was this and I'll just do that.
The Influencer: there's lots of them, right? I wonder at what point do those habits, like developing habits and doing them because you think it's the best way is one thing.
The Influencer: And I think that's the hobgoblin of the little mind, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
The Influencer: Whereas that's such a good fucking, like I can see the t-shirt in that. But yeah, but Doing a thing because you were taught to do it that way. And then over time, you find comfort in doing it that way. And it brings you joy in doing it that way. And you know, there are other ways to do it. And sometimes you employ those ways because it's the faster way or because it's the more accurate way.
The Influencer: But you still like for me, for example, it's cutting dados with a trim router and squaring them up with a chisel. There's just something like using a piece of double stick tape and a ruler, like just because it's square enough, like those things that aren't the most accurate or the most efficient way to do it. But there's still a sense of joy in doing it that way that it brings me like that.
The Influencer: That I think has value.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: I don't think that's...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Cause it makes you happy.
The Influencer: Yeah, there's there's a... Yeah, I mean, full stop, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So, so, so that rigid unthinking adherence to past beliefs or ways of doing things stifles personal growth, creativity, and truth seeking.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like when you engage in those, those ways you do things that you've always, I've always done it that way. So I do it that way. Like, does that actually hurt you from being more open-minded to trying other new ways that may be even better?
The Influencer: Well, i think I think unthinking is the critical term there, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That that's the question.
The Influencer: Because if you do it unquestioningly, it just becomes a dogmatic belief, then it probably does stop you from trying new things.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Correct.
The Influencer: But if you like if you are open to trying new things and you go... Like that's information that's good to know. And I can employ that under certain circumstances when I need to.
The Influencer: But this other way that I've been doing it for 10 years, there's just something about that way that keeps drawing me back because it is a joyful process.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: that's not That's not unthinking adherence.
The Influencer: That's not unthinking, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. Like for example, when you cut dovetails, you you go ah tails first or pins first?
The Influencer: I go tails first.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I go tails first.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I went to the North Bennett street school for some classes way back when they're like pins first, unrelenting pins first.
The Influencer: Yeah.
The Influencer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And they're like, here's why. And I was like, yeah, really?
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Cause okay.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, I could have just listened to them and done that for the rest of my career.
The Influencer: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But i was like, I don't really, I'm not really buying their argument.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm not really convinced. Yeah.
The Influencer: Well, there there isn't an argument, right? Like it's... it's ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, they know they they said there was they were like mother.
The Influencer: Oh, I'm sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: They were like motherfuckers. This is how you you know. they They weren't like that. They were super nice. But um no, they they were they were amazing.
The Influencer: and yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: North Benetreed School. I'm not shitting on it. Absolutely take classes there. It's world class. and I wouldn't regret a thing. It was transformative for me. But in terms of like that dogmatic, we do pins first here.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And here's why ah yeah I tried tails first.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And it was way better.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I can tell you why it was way better for me. And i I went back to one of the instructors many, many years later. And i was like, tell me why you guys are pins first again. And again, I didn't buy it.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So it's like, that's an example where I could have eaten, drank the Kool-Aid.
The Influencer: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: um But I tried it a different way.
The Influencer: Well,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I didn't have this like, you know, unwavering, you know, adherence. And I found that it's way better. And same with a push saw versus a Japanese pull saw.
The Influencer: I was literally just thinking that. Yep. Like the, the, and there are people on both sides of the the argument, you know, for and against.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But how many of those people, Eric, have tried both extensively?
The Influencer: Well, and that's the thing. How many of those people have come to that conclusion out of experience of both versus they picked one up and it felt more comfortable for them.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right, right.
The Influencer: And that's great. So they started using it and then they decided that that is the universal truth that, that,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, everyone. So if you're doing shit that you don't have a good reason to do it that way, mike might, you know, pick pick a bone with Ralph Waldo Emerson on that one.
The Influencer: The Hobgoblin of a little mind is going to be the title of my autobiography.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: but We just insulted everyone, including ourselves. Well done.
The Influencer: Before that was number five. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yep. Now halfway.
The Influencer: Okay, but before we jump into number six, let's take a quick little ad break real quick to thank our Lord and Savior, Billiam T. Burkle, who is, of course, the ah owner, operator,
The Influencer: and Business person behind WTB woodworking in ah Lord and Savior in Huntington Valley, Pennsylvania.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Lord and savior.
The Influencer: A couple of things coming up just so you guys know about what's going on there on September 18. There's going to be a live event featuring Fez tool from nine to one. And on September 19th, so in just a couple of weeks from now, I will be there. And I believe i i believe KJ is also going to be there ah for the Shaper event um from 10 to 2 on September 19th.
The Influencer: ah So come hang out, say hello, do the things. This is one of those rare times where we will actually, like we're talking about the Adry. This episode is going to come out tomorrow. And now you guys have up-to-date information on where...
The Influencer: Me and KJ will be on September 19th. So come hang. And then on October 25th from nine to three is the one year anniversary. So there'll be a free food and fun and giveaways and sales and all the things.
The Influencer: ah So go check out our boy, Bill Burkle, WTB Woodworking, WTBwoodworking.com.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Awesome.
The Influencer: Awesome.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: right, Eric, you're up number six.
The Influencer: Awesome. All right. Rock and roll. Number six.
The Influencer: ah Okay. So I thought about how to phrase, this is a question. I thought about how to phrase this question a couple of different ways, and I'm just going to hit you with this.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: Do you think it is possible that Sisyphus ever found meaning in his work?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah You're going to have to educate me on who the fuck that is I don't know.
The Influencer: the The myth of Sisyphus? All right.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I don't know that one.
The Influencer: the myth of that You know the myth of Sisyphus.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I don't know if I do.
The Influencer: so So Sisyphus was a Greek mythological figure who cheated death. And as his curse, he cheated death multiple times. As his curse from Zeus, he was um forced to push a boulder up a hill for all of eternity.
The Influencer: And as he gets toward the top of the hill, just at the end of the the ordeal, the boulder rolls all the way back down to the beginning of the hill, and the cycle starts anew.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh my god.
The Influencer: So that's his curse for the entirety of ah you know human existence.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: And so the question is in that the Sisyphean task kind of represents the meaninglessness of doing anything. And we talked about this a little bit earlier in the episode, that that kind of that drudgery, the task of of repetition and um some things that you just have to do that don't have any inherent meaning.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: So is it possible in those Sisyphean tasks to find meaning in the doing of the task itself.
The Influencer: Let me ask it a different way.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: There's a big difference here though. in his In his case, he might be doing the task, but it never ever reaches a resolution and he has to start over.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah that's not That's not us. We have endpoints, thankfully, and we reset in a different way or a new way or an exciting new. It's like ah it's like you have to make the same project for the rest of your life, ah but never complete it.
The Influencer: Yeah, yeah, that's part of the thing, right? It's all, it's wretched no vomit. um like Let's, let's put it in the context of life outside of woodworking at first.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah.
The Influencer: You get out of bed every morning.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: You go into the bathroom, you take a leak, you brush your teeth, you fix your face up, you go downstairs, you make your coffee, you drink your coffee, you look at your phone for a little bit. Maybe 15 years ago, you looked at the paper for a little bit.
The Influencer: You've got like this period of like somewhere between 30 minutes and two hours every morning where it's the same thing every morning.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yep.
The Influencer: And some people go to a job that they don't like because they have bills to pay and they go to the same desk every day and they sit down and they do the same meaningless task, which feels meaningless.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, gee whiz.
The Influencer: And they do this thing that is, it feels like it is on this cycle of repeat over and over and over.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow, it is. Yes, yes, yes.
The Influencer: Right? And I, and, and we all have that in our lives.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
The Influencer: Like we all have those things. You get up and you commute to the same job every day for 40 years. or whatever it is, like you're raising kids. And sure, there's an end point because your kids will eventually theoretically leave the house.
The Influencer: um But when you're in it, when your kids are five and every morning you wrangle them to just shut the fuck up and eat an apple for five minutes before they have to leave for school or preschool or whatever it is.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: Like those, those, those feel Sisyphean in scope when you're in the thing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I see. i get it. I get it. I get it.
The Influencer: And, and so is there meaning like in, in, in the shop, like,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: I go in, I go into the shop every day. And the first thing I do is I put my keys in the same spot. I put my bag in the same spot. I walk over to my bench. I pull out my computer. Like maybe I sharpen up some tools.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: Maybe it's trying to make sure that I'm not getting distracted by my phone because I have X to do, but it's like the same cyclical loop of even if it's a little different, it's kind of still the same.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
The Influencer: It's still the same story, even if it's a different chapter, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes.
The Influencer: so So is there meaning to be found in the repetitive cycle of the thing itself, of the daily task of life?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I will say i have two. That's such a great dude. That was awesome. Very well done. The way you described that, I felt trapped. i was like, oh, God, not again.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right. ah Two things. Some people love the routine. Love it.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Love it. They relish the routine. My wife is one of those people.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: She loves. It's the same thing every day. She eats the same thing for lunch every day. She eats this.
The Influencer: Does she really?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yogurt with berries and granola every fucking day.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm like, don't you want to try something different? She's like, no.
The Influencer: No, this is this works.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And she has the same dinner most nights.
The Influencer: Really?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: She puts on pajamas at the same time, takes a bath at the same time, watches the same shows, the same types of shows, always murder.
The Influencer: and Yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: um Murder Mystery is on my television 24-7.
The Influencer: And then she wonders why she's anxious. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And then exactly.
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Thank you, ah Victoria. Please listen to this episode because Eric's dropping some truth bombs. um It scrolls her phone, the same websites, the same fashion. like But she loves it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: you know And their dog, she loves the routine.
The Influencer: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It's where she feels most balanced.
The Influencer: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I think that's because she has... some underlying anxiety and having that routine quells the thoughts that quells the anxiety because it's a known quantity.
The Influencer: yeah
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: There's no uncertainty, right? So there's that. And then there's me where like, I'm okay with repetition and routine, but I don't really like it.
The Influencer: Yeah.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So I'm always trying to reinvent myself. re I'm insatiable looking for new viewpoints, ways to think about my life. So every day I go in the shop, I try to do something different.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I never make the same thing twice.
The Influencer: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: i tried to I try to break up the monotony. I listen to different music every day. I try to break up the operations I'm doing all the time.
The Influencer: Do you listen to different music every day?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm constantly switching and searching for new
The Influencer: That's.
The Influencer: That's so fascinating to me. I'm such, I'm such a, like I have whatever, you know, ah we'll call it a hundred albums, right? That I typically like when I'm in the shop, I can't have new stimuli in my ears.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: Cause that distracts me from what I'm doing. And so it's, it's the same ones.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh. No.
The Influencer: Interesting.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm looking for new music every day.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I hit on a new album yesterday and I had chills running down my arms.
The Influencer: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: had goosebumps.
The Influencer: When you do hit on a new one, man.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: goosebumps Head to toe because it was new and it was phenomenal.
The Influencer: Uh-huh.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I was like, wow, what is this? And I couldn't even woodwork. i had to stop. I just, just stop and fucking dance around a little bit. And like, it was so awesome.
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And it's like, I'm constantly, i want that.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm chasing the dragon, Eric.
The Influencer: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And for me, the dragon comes with novelty, like new ideas, learning new things, new, new, new. So.
The Influencer: So do you think for you then it's possible to find meaning in the repetition?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah It's really tough. I struggle with it. And the way I found um the way i found meaning in the repetition is to look at it differently. Don't think about being a repetitious task, but zoom out and have appreciation and gratitude that I'm alive today and I get to see...
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: this day and mill this wood and do this thing I've done a thousand times before, drink the same coffee I've drank a thousand times, but do it in a way that's full of appreciation and gratitude because this ride is coming to an end soon, sooner than I want it to.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
The Influencer: And that that is the the crux. That's the difference, right? Between our experience and the immortal Sisyphus is we know the end date.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: And I am a firm believer in you can withstand almost any torture if you know the end date, if you know that it is coming.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: loved eric Eric, that was a good one.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: oh my God. That's so good.
The Influencer: It's a hard one.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ape a plus. I love that one.
The Influencer: m Thank you, sir. Thank you. All right. What do you got Next one up.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, I almost wonder if it's related now.
The Influencer: Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. it's It's a series of statements. And it I think it does relate back to woodworking. and These are just my thoughts. A major source of stress and anxiety for all of us is when we try to control this chaotic world. Okay?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Type a Right? Whereas, if we let go and welcome the uncertainty that this world has to bring us into our lives, we'll not only be more comfortable, but we'll be far happier.
The Influencer: So the, the,
The Influencer: It sounds to me, or at least what I'm hearing is the embrace of the unknown, the letting go of the control of trying to know ultimately causes more happiness.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yes Yes.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes.
The Influencer: Um, because the other way around is pure unadulterated anxiety. Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes. I think we can both agree that this world is chaotic as fuck.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And like people like to say, the only thing that doesn't change is change. Like, or sorry, yeah I'm sorry.
The Influencer: Yeah, the only constant is change.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes, the only, thank you.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: The only constant is change, right?
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And that speaks to the the uncertainty and the chaos and the randomness that comes with life. And i I know people who try to control every variable.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And they're miserable. They're full of anxiety because if it, if it, if every little thing isn't perfectly the way they thought it should be, or we're hoping it would be, let's say, you know, then they get upset.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So let's say you you plan a vacation, let's say, right. And, um, you put such an itinerary like such a stiff itinerary that we're going to be here at this time we're going there at that time we're to this thing we're going to do that thing we're going eat here we're going to then we're going this and then if one of the things fucks up let's say something's late or the place is closed or someone like twists their ankle or has like food poisoning then everything else is like seems like a disappointment
The Influencer: Sure.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, I had all this planned. Oh God, you know, we couldn't do this. We couldn't do this because it's all about expectation not being fulfilled. You put sky high expectations, meaning control.
The Influencer: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We're going to do a B, C, D, E.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's all control expectation. Right. And then if it doesn't live up to it now, what's the chance it's going to not only live up to it, but exceed it. the The more expectations you put, the harder it is to be happy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And if you, but if you travel, let's say you you go on this trip and you have no expectation other than where you're going to sleep at night. I know where I'm sleeping and I know what city I'm going to be in.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right. And you just say, I'm going to open myself to the universe. And you just go and you find yourself at this delightful little cafe on the streets of France.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And then you see a mountain in the distance and you say to your wife, which we just did. And I say, Hey, you want to go there? i don't know where that is. I don't know what mountain that is, but I bet we could figure, I bet we could figure it out and go there.
The Influencer: Let's find out.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And we did, we found a gondola it did because we saw a gondola shining in the light.
The Influencer: Yep. Yep. Yep.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I go, you want to go there? That, that looks really cool. And she's like, yeah, let's go. And we just found a way there. We learned its name. We found a gondola and we went there and it was like so amazing.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And you're so thankful. You're, you're, bursting with joy because like you didn't know this was waiting for you.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: What a joyful moment. And so coming in with no expectations was like just joy after joy after joy after surprise, at you know? and And so there's something about trying to control life versus opening yourself up to the, to the universe.
The Influencer: You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly on that particular aspect of life. We're very similar in that regard. um I will say I know that that way I know from firsthand experience that that way of navigating specifically European vacations can cause ah other people a lot of stress as well.
The Influencer: Um, even if the, the reason that I don't like to plan and we don't like to plan too many things is because that then like that quite literally frees our time and opens us up to new experiences that we didn't see coming.
The Influencer: And that's where the joy of the thing is.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right? Yeah.
The Influencer: Um, so yeah, I mean, I, I, I agree wholeheartedly that, that letting go of those expectations creates opportunity for joy that like unexpected joy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Now, Eric...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Now, is there a parallel? I think there's a parallel in woodworking.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: The parallel is people use wood and they expect it to behave. They expect it to act like steel, concrete, something that it won't misbehave. I can control every bit of it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I can make it straight. I can make it square. I can make it do this. i Control, control, control. But what people forget is that wood is fucking plant cells. ah Okay?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: literally plant cells. When do you work with cells as your medium? Are you taking like muscle fiber and fucking fashioning shit out of like dead muscle fiber or bones?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like, and well, bones are rigid. I shouldn't use that, but yeah, they, they but I mean,
The Influencer: Also, there's some psychopath who is making art out of both of those things.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: There is. But like, but I think we forget that wood is plant cells and stop trying to control it so much and go with the fucking flow.
The Influencer: bos Bones and muscle.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like if it's not straight, i know it can be a problem because we engineer things to be a certain way, but I try to go with the flow.
The Influencer: Well...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: If there's a knot, I leave the fucking knot.
The Influencer: I think travel is a really interesting parallel to woodworking in this particular instance, because most of us don't do it enough to become really like seasoned pros at it.
The Influencer: And the people who like invariably that I know who travel the most are the people who plan the least because they know that shit's going to get fucked up anyway. So they're like, I'm just going to Strasburg and I'm going to see what the fuck is there.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right.
The Influencer: And I think similarly in woodworking, the more experienced you become, the more you realize that the planning, it's not futile.
The Influencer: Like there has to be a framework in which you're doing something, but then everything else kind of goes out the window.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, has to be some, a framework, right, right, right.
The Influencer: And like the example that I want to give is um couple of months ago, six months ago, whatever it was, um when Larissa and I made our first video for the new channel, we made a table in a day in 12 hours.
The Influencer: And I made a little nightstand, use it every day. It's next to my bed. And the top is this crotch of flame, big leaf maple, lovely, beautiful figured wood. And I looked at it literally like three or four days ago and it's cracked.
The Influencer: The glue seam is cracked and it doesn't. Here's the thing. It doesn't make any fucking sense as to why it's cracked because it's cracked on the glue seam on the book match. Um, But it's also split at the most humid time of year.
The Influencer: So those two pieces should not be contracting.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: And I hadn't had the air conditioner on for a couple of weeks at that point because it's been so beautiful out for the last few weeks.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right.
The Influencer: So there's no there's zero logical reason why this should have shrank and split.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: And if I was 15 years earlier in my career and lacked experience, I know for a fact that I would have beat the shit out of myself thinking that I didn't know what the fuck I was doing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: But you have enough experience over time and things just happen and you see these things happen again and again where you go like, like I did everything right. So I don't know who, I have no idea why I fucking split.
The Influencer: And you know, it doesn't matter.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: It's like, that's just wood. It's plant cells. so
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: there's There's a hidden variable there that you're unaware of.
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think travel is a really good parallel actually for the, that letting go of control and the more experience you have doing the thing, the more comfortable you become letting go of that control.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: that That reminds me, and not to beat a dead horse here, but that's why we use relative dimensioning. Like we start with an idea and we build off that idea piece by piece.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Whereas some of my engineering friends, they come with a complete cut list to the, you know, 64th of an inch, a complete cut list.
The Influencer: Yep. Yep.
The Influencer: Yep.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And then they cut it all and they wonder why it didn't go together.
The Influencer: ye
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: Yep. Do you know how many times in a cabinet shop I saw young people and I did the same thing when I was young.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: You do exactly that. Like you're building the thing and you're building off the plan.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: And then at some point you cut a piece and you go to fix it and you go, or you you go to fit it to the piece and you're like, it doesn't fit.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And then. Yep.
The Influencer: What the fuck? And then your boss comes out and laughs at you cause you're a fucking idiot. And then you have to swallow your pride and and figure it out.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right.
The Influencer: And you always build the the thing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, to me, that, cause that reads you of control. i think I'm controlling every size, every variable control, control, control.
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It should be like this. I'm an engineer and you can do that with steel, like super fine steel and things that don't misbehave as much as wood.
The Influencer: Yep.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But like you said, woods plant cells. So fuck off. All right.
The Influencer: All right.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's, that was, that was my fourth.
The Influencer: All right. Was that nine or was that seven?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So, uh, eight.
The Influencer: Okay. So that was seven. So this is my fourth.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah. Eight.
The Influencer: All right. This is one I think about often. Nothing to do with woodworking, but maybe in the tradition of the craft.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yep.
The Influencer: This is an old, I believe it's an old Greek ah proverb that a society grows great when old men or old people plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit in.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, I love that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, I love that.
The Influencer: I think about this so often.
The Influencer: And and not not to be like, i don't know that that I want to get too high on the self-righteous horse, but I do think this is the thing that we lack currently in our society.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, Eric. That's so great.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: ah this that And everybody is now, now, now.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Everyone's me, me, me.
The Influencer: And there's no investment in society as a whole, and there's no investment in the future.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No.
The Influencer: And we are completely unwilling to sacrifice resources and work in time now for the betterment of future generations.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm. Oh my God, Eric. So inspiring. That's so good. I love every bit of that because I've been thinking about that lately.
The Influencer: Yeah. How so?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, I watched a documentary recently on a plane ride where I forget the name, a guy who started a carpet company or the biggest carpet company in the world was asked, um hey, um you know, we're doing a seminar and we want you to say a few words about sustainability. Can you do that? And he's like, like, what's your plan for sustainability? And he's like, what?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And this is back in the 80s or 90s before like sustainability was a thing.
The Influencer: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And so he went home and he started thinking about what he's going to say. And the people who, you know his people, this was his own company. The people who were going to ask him to say some stuff about their sustainability plan thought he was just going to mail it in just say, oh, we're thinking about sustainability.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: you know It's just some bullshit.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And he was the kind of person who went home and asked himself, what are we gonna do about sustainability?
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And he kind of got fucked up from that question. And he came in the next day, he had like a reckoning moment from that.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And instead of coming up in front of that crowd of his company and saying, oh, we're, you know, we're some BS. He laid down the gauntlet for both himself and the future generations and his company and said, we are going to reinvent who we are as a company.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We are going to lead by example, and we are going to be sustainable in terms of less reliance on plastic and petroleum products, less reliance on energy consumption And we are, you know, he had a whole checklist of things.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And the people who asked him to get up and say these things were like, say what now? Are you trying to bankrupt?
The Influencer: They were like, what the fuck, man?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: They they they were like, shut the fuck up, bud, go home.
The Influencer: Uh-huh.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right.
The Influencer: Uh-huh.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and And he and like it jarring ah response.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And it it completely changed the whole company. And the the whole documentary was about how he became so ah so obsessed with caring more about the environment and making his company successful while doing it. He said, these two ideas shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We should be able to be sustainable and be leaders through it. And he started inspiring other company, you know, their, their profits, like as they, you know, they started to make these changes, their profits were going up because customers heard about the sustainability and wanted to buy them more.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So then they became a market leader and all these other companies are looking around and being like, oh
The Influencer: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: maybe we should be more sustainable because then we can compete. And it like, I was in tears. Like Vicky will tell you, I was on the plane and I was literally crying in my seat to see someone who had no reason to do it, but he cared.
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: He, he, he made reference to his children and his grandchildren.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And he's like, what kind of CEO and leader am I when I don't care about the next generation? And I was so moved.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: in my seat on this plane. I was crying. and i i kind of came back um from the the trip and I was like, I have to do more.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I have the resources. i have the time. I started reaching out to tree planting and I don't even, like I started researching that. Is that a good way to spend money? I reached out to Trent. trying to talk with him.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I reached out to people who plant trees as a living. I talked to two or three of them asking, is that a good way to spend money? Like I want to give money towards something with trees and oxygen and plants again.
The Influencer: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I don't know what's best. So I'm kind of in limbo right now. haven't figured it out, but I'm so moved by that exact sentiment.
The Influencer: yeah but that that motivation to do a thing that you know won't pay off for you is exactly like that's that's the whole game right like that's the whole that's the thing that so many
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: but like this is not even a larger conversation that we're having as a society at the moment. This is the thing that I think about often is it's, there are individual actors, but a majority of those actors, um, at least the loud ones, the ones that you see on whatever social media or what have you, they, they just, they,
The Influencer: get on the bully pulpit. You know, they just, they use the platform to, um, argue with people about why they're right instead of doing the thing that matters in small ways.
The Influencer: That's the thing that I think there's no quiet. Um, I don't like righteousness is not the right word. You know what I'm trying to say? There's no, there's no quiet altruism.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I do.
The Influencer: It always has to be,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: magnified so that everybody knows that whatever it is, you're a vegan, you're ah zero waste, you're using compost toilets, whatever the fuck it is.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, Eric, maybe you have a mate. Well, maybe it is happening. And because it was quiet, you didn't hear about it.
The Influencer: I hope it is. And I have to imagine that it is happening. But it's um this is where my pessimism is is coming through of like, how do you like how do you prove a negative, you know, like so?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, that well, that's a problem.
The Influencer: Yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Because if they were doing it quietly, you wouldn't know about it.
The Influencer: Yeah. And then we have conversations like this. And it's it's hard as two people who exist on the Internet. And I'm not saying that I'm like secretly fucking Robin Hood out here. But like if there is a thing that I'm doing that I think is beneficial for society, then I'm in the weird position of like, do I tell people about it and inspire them or do I just shut the fuck up and do the thing?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, I like to tell people because we you and I have a unique platform with which to reach a lot of ears. And if you can get people excited about doing something good for the planet, that's awesome.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like, join me. Like, it's not about me. It's not like, oh, look what a good person I am. It's really like, hey, maybe we could do this together and like feel good together.
The Influencer: I think it's not about you because you don't have any money riding on it. Right? Like the moment the what is it that what's the the
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, you mean, you mean with social media?
The Influencer: Yeah, yeah, specifically with social media, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh yeah yeah. I don't. Yeah. I don't. Yeah.
The Influencer: And and and who is it?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You're right. Yeah.
The Influencer: ah Was it Rockefeller who said the thing of like, the hardest thing in the world to do is to convince a man of a truth when his paycheck depends on his ignorance of that truth or something like that?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.
The Influencer: You know what I mean? Like it's, I don't know, man.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah. I see. I see.
The Influencer: it's It's a so multifaceted issue.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I see. I see.
The Influencer: But anyway.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Two more thoughts about that. First of all, the the documentary, which I hope people ah watch, is called Beyond Zero. okay
The Influencer: Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And the really hard part is he got all this going for his whole life, like 20 years, and died before he saw the end product.
The Influencer: you know
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: that But they made it.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And the journey is stunning. Like i so inspired beyond zero, watch it.
The Influencer: All right.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It'll change you.
The Influencer: and Check it out.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: um And the other thing is that I think this comes on as you get older, Eric, I wasn't thinking about this when I was younger, but every, every decade i you know, as I get older and more of my ducks are in a row um personally, I feel like I should be doing more.
The Influencer: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And so I feel like there's a developmental curve to this.
The Influencer: I agree. And i think I think that's probably why the adage is about, or that the proverb is about old people specifically, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, the old, yeah, yeah.
The Influencer: Like you see the end is coming and what can you do to set the next generation up for success?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right, you've, yeah.
The Influencer: And we we are in a moment where, I mean, we don't have to talk about politics, but the the overwhelming majority of people who are still leading our country are fucking octogenarians septuagenarians.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
The Influencer: It's like, can you just get the fuck out of the way? like Can you just, can you just go sit in the fucking garden? Like you did your thing and we appreciate it. Now get the fuck out of the way.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm not commenting on anything political on this fucking podcast, okay?
The Influencer: I mean, i mean all of them just get the fuck out of the way.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. Okay.
The Influencer: Um, anyway, anyway,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: On that note, number nine.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric. The more serious we take ourselves, the more unhappy we'll be.
The Influencer: The more serious we take ourselves, the more unhappy we'll be. is this Is this a life statement or a woodworking statement? Or yes?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes.
The Influencer: Yeah, because I agree with him. I agree with it. It is true because the more serious we take ourselves, the more seriously we want to be taken by other people. And it's impossible to um demand respect from other people.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And what?
The Influencer: Respect is earned. It's not it's not demanded.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And when you say seriously be taken more seriously, what does that really mean? Like, like break that down.
The Influencer: That people look upon you with admiration and respect, even if it's grudging respect.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So it's it.
The Influencer: That people take your work and your life seriously as though you've not been a fucktard for 40 years.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So it's like, it's almost like a reputation thing. Like ah you're I'm fostering some sense of self.
The Influencer: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm perpetuating some self image about me, right?
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That I'm serious or I'm this. And suddenly we feel like we can't screw up. or we can't fail, or we can't reinvent who we are, or we can't take risks because we might lose, oh, someone's going to think on this or someone's, we you know, and so we stop taking risks and we stop learning and trying new things, whether it's design or learning new techniques and like the curiosity, because we're so scared.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We don't want to lose, you know, that. Yeah.
The Influencer: we're We're scared to fail, but we also know what works. So how much of that is also loss aversion? Right. Like we know, we know if we do X, Y is the result and Y is often whatever money, clout, respect, um admiration.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yep.
The Influencer: And, and we like Y that's why we do X. There's no, you don't do X for X sake. Most of the time you do X because Y.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, that's true.
The Influencer: um so yeah, I,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, it seems like a lot of social media stars um get it or an inflated sense of self, right? They have ah this adoring public constantly puffing their tires up, being like, oh, you're so great, you're so great.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And then you don't want to ever, like, fail.
The Influencer: I don't think it's just social media stars.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: eight No, no, no, it's not.
The Influencer: I think...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It's everyone, but...
The Influencer: No, no, no. But but i think I think even people who post on social media without a following, like the... I think there is something in the act of...
The Influencer: assuming that what you're doing is important enough for public consumption, that that alters that, that alters the way that you see yourself, even if it's not being consumed by the public.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you take yourself seriously, right? Right, right? Yep. Yes.
The Influencer: So I, and and so I think that gets exacerbated by people with large followings.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes.
The Influencer: Um, but the, I think just the very act of saying what I'm doing is an, is important enough that other people see it makes you like like that alters how you view yourself in your daily work.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah. Do you think you take yourself too seriously?
The Influencer: I think I have, I rarely take myself seriously, maybe to a fault. Um, I think there are times where my work is more serious than other times.
The Influencer: Um, but I, I, I think my default mode is to, I don't want to say like be silly or flipping about it.
The Influencer: Um, But I am, I'm, I'm very aware of my ego. We'll put it that way. And I don't want it to grow out of proportion.
The Influencer: um And I get, I mean, I get accused of that all the time, but.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Do you? Do you? Seriously?
The Influencer: Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Why? why
The Influencer: I think it's the way that I present myself. Can I recognize that it can come across as flippant into some people that reads as massive ego?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, like cocky.
The Influencer: Like I'm too good to care. Yes. Oh, I, I've been called cocky all my life. And I think it is like, there is maybe it's just the cadence, you know, like there's something about the way that I present myself and I haven't quite figured out what it is that, um, it, it can read cocky.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: There's a fine line between cocky and confidence. What do you think that line is?
The Influencer: oh Oh, like in, in the way that I'm perceived or in the way that I navigate the world.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, you meet some people and you're like, they're cocky or they're arrogant. And you meet other people with similar traits, but you're like, wow, that person's really confident.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And I'm trying to like, what's the dividing line between arrogance and cockiness versus confidence?
The Influencer: I, I, I, I asked myself this question often because I do like it does. That's one of the few things that actually does get under my skin is when people like call me cocky.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
The Influencer: Um, and I think for me, the easiest way to avoid,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
The Influencer: shifting from confident to cocky is to avoid um self-promotion. Like there's there's this thing of like, I can tell you what I do and what I have found time and time again is I can say I'm a woodworker and not tell you that I have won awards, been published in galleries, sold in galleries across the country, have a social media following, et cetera, et cetera. If you discover those things on your own,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: and I intentionally didn't tell you that reads very different than if I am in a group of people and I'm like, well, I'm a woodworker.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: And also I just had an article get published and find woodworking. Like it's, it's the qualification of my ability that I think then that gets perceived as cocky rather than confident.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: But I don't know. That's just the only way I know how to navigate it. And yet, even still, people on the internet all the time tell me I'm a cocky son of a bitch. And you know what? Maybe they're right. Like, maybe it's the fucking... If there's enough people out there saying it, maybe there's some truth to it. I have no fucking idea.
The Influencer: know?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, I have struggled. You know, I think when I was younger, i thought I was hot shit when I was younger.
The Influencer: Hmm...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I was quite arrogant, I think, in my early 20s. And like, eventually life beats you down and shows you you're not anything special. Yeah. you don't know what you think you know.
The Influencer: hmm hmm
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You're not as good as you think you are. And when that happens enough times, like life just kind of beats that into you, um you don't feel that way anymore. And in fact, the older I get,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: the more I feel like a complete idiot about just about everything. And you say, yeah, but you're supposed to be the domain expert. You've been doing this for 20 or 30 years, like whether it's science or woodworking.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And the more I do it, the less I feel like a domain expert, even though on paper I should be, but I've seen so much, so much go wrong or so much go against my intuition that I'm like, look, I can tell you what I know, but there's no promises here.
The Influencer: But that's the thing, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah Right? Like,
The Influencer: Like that's that's the difference between confident and cocky, in my opinion, is like if I ask you a question, if I a student say, how do I X or what will happen if I y and you say, well, this is how you do it and this is what will happen.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: I go like, OK, this man knows what he's talking about. But there's there is an arrogance of like I know and you don't in that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
The Influencer: Whereas if you say the thing of here's what I know, here's what I've seen happen and here's what I'm reasonably confident will happen if X, but there's no guarantee that that like that simple act of acknowledging that you can't predict the future with 100% confidence like that shifts the tone of the conversation.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, but there's no guarantees.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You know, I think a background in science was helpful for that because one of the things you that sort of you learn in science is to be able to say, I don't know. That's one of the most important things to be able to say as a scientist, because the minute you start bullshitting and saying, you know, giving an answer because you feel like you should have the answers and you start BSing and the people see through it, you lose all credibility.
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But if you say, I don't know, we don't know. And that's the exciting part. Let's figure it out together. That is uniting. That is all the confidence, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So that lesson, I think I learned from science and, you know, that has kind of crossed forward into woodworking. ah People are like, how do you you know, how can you not feel like you know what you're doing? I'm like, well, work this time. We'll see what happens next time. There's always room for um There was just one other phrase, Eric, regards to this that popped in my head before we go to number 10.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah Jacob Collier, he's like this um brilliant musician. He's kind of like a savant. you know He's all quirky and amazing and genius level you know musician. And he doesn't think about it like that. He just has fun, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And he gave it, I was watching an interview once or social media on him and he was saying, you know I think it's really important instead of being cool, Be warm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Because that's what people really want. And I didn't know if he meant cool, like like I'm trying to be like hip and cool, or if he meant cool, like like kind of cold and standoffish.
The Influencer: oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like cold.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But it works regardless, which whichever cool it is.
The Influencer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Don't be cool. Be warm.
The Influencer: But being being warm, i mean, I agree.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And i I love that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Be the kind of person that someone wants to talk to where you you make them feel like they're part of the conversation, not I'm the expert looking down from the pulpit on you.
The Influencer: yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: you know
The Influencer: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Build them up. Make them feel part of the the group.
The Influencer: I am strongly of the opinion that every person has an interesting story to tell if you just shut the fuck up and listen for a minute.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, 100%. ah hundred percent
The Influencer: Yeah. Now, the caveat to that is being warm takes vulnerability.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes.
The Influencer: Because you have to a put yourself and your ego aside and you you have to understand that whatever is happening right now is about them and not you. And you also have to like you have to be warm enough to be inviting, which requires often that you show the first vulnerable hand.
The Influencer: but You show your cards before you invite them to show theirs.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes.
The Influencer: And that's a hard thing to do. And that's, I think that is why people often prefer to be cool because you can be a story and you don't have to be a fucking human being with another human being.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I couldn't have said it better. Yes to all of it.
The Influencer: Oh, all right. Close it out.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yep. Let's go.
The Influencer: right.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Number 10.
The Influencer: Number 10. This one is a quote from Soren Kierkegaard. um
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: And this is, I've been sitting with this for a while, but it's more poignant lately. um
The Influencer: The most painful state of being is remembering the future, particularly the one you'll never have.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, God.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: oh God.
The Influencer: That one's a mindfuck.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: oh God.
The Influencer: Uh-huh.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That here we are again on expectation.
The Influencer: Uh-huh.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Expectation being the source of suffering.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Unmet expectation.
The Influencer: Unmet expectation and the expectation, like you had all of the plans in place, right? And this, this could be about life. This could also be about woodworking and design and like the anxiety that comes around.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, a piece. Sure.
The Influencer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Sure.
The Influencer: But it's, it's that, that thing when it goes wrong in that regret that, and I think we've all been there that and it's so difficult to shake and move past.
The Influencer: And you just like, it just sits there and lingers because you can't not think about where that road would have gone.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: you
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah can you Can you read it again?
The Influencer: Yeah. The most painful state of being is remembering the future, particularly the one you'll never have.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh my God.
The Influencer: I know it's so heartbreaking.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: God.
The Influencer: Oh,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
The Influencer: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
The Influencer: But it's one of those things that just like, I keep like basically like a running list of of kind of isms or proverbs from from a lot of these writers in my phone.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: god
The Influencer: And that's one that like every time I see it, I just stop. And you just have to sit with it for a minute.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Golly.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: the Is there a lesson in there about how much we daydream about the future?
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: is Is that a risk? Is there risk associated with that?
The Influencer: About the daydream?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I don't know, like, no, about it to me, my initial thought was like, well, that's why you should focus on the present and not live for the future. The future is nothing but some skeletal blueprint idea, chemical signatures in your brain of what you think might happen or you hope might happen.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Whereas really all that we have
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: is the present. The past is also chemical signatures stored away of what occurred in your brain. So it's like, you you know, the past doesn't exist, but in chemical signatures. And when you die, the past dies, unless it's written down.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And the future is just another series of chemicals, like a blueprint, a daydream. But the present, like when we're in the past or we're in the future, we're missing the only thing that really exists, which is the present.
The Influencer: I agree.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: is there something Is there something in there about that statement you read that's so heart-wrenching about living too much for the future?
The Influencer: I see. Interestingly, i read it less about living too much for the future and more about living. It's not living for the past.
The Influencer: It's like, OK, so to your point, there's there's all the chemical signatures of the past.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm. Hmm.
The Influencer: There's all of the the potential of the future. And then the only thing that we actually have is what's happening right now, the present now. correct? but But I think you would also agree that the now has a momentum and it might have multiple momentums. like Things are in motion, right?
The Influencer: Your daughter starting her senior year of school. We know that on the other end of this, college is going to happen, presumably for her.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Got it. Got it.
The Influencer: So like that's in motion.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes. I see what you mean.
The Influencer: ah things Things with Vicky are in motion. You just got back from a vacation.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: There's trajectories going on.
The Influencer: Right. These trajectories.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, totally. Yeah.
The Influencer: and And the difficulty is sometimes in life something happens. Like, let's say you, you are running a woodworking business and you bid on a job and you like, if I get this job, this could be massive because it unlocks this door.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right. Right. Right.
The Influencer: And then this money comes in and I can invest in this and I can build that other thing up. And then something happens in that potential gets wrenched away. and the hard thing is to not hyper fixate on the future that almost happened.
The Influencer: Right? So you are focusing on the future, but you're focusing on the future that was a potential of the past. And that that's the heart-wrenching thing about it to me is this thing of like,
The Influencer: Once that, once that door is closed, once you've moved on from that path, it's so hard sometimes, depending on the situation to accept that that path is now closed.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Influencer: And some people spend a lifetime not being able to accept that, right? You talk about people who go through immense heartbreak, uh, or, or whatever, like a spouse dies or something. And, and they, for 40 years, they're just like, I'm never, I'm never going to love again.
The Influencer: You know, never going to love the way that I loved them. And so you just, you can't move past that potential future, even though that that potential future will never come to fruition.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow. Oh my god.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I understand completely. what What have you learned is not the solution, but a solution.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like I know there's many, probably it depends on the person, but like what thoughts have helped you deal with that, this statement?
The Influencer: I know that I am a storyteller, right? ah To two people, to myself. This is the thing. Full disclosure, maybe overexposure.
The Influencer: ah This is, I talk about this my therapist all the time. She's like, you're telling stories again. I'm like, I fucking know, Dawn. That's what I do. This is why I'm here.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: stories about who you are like are you inventing realities or what okay
The Influencer: stories stories Stories about like all of the things. Like i I am very much a person who wants to understand why things happened. and And the only thing that I know for sure is why I chose to do a thing, right? That's the only thing I can suss out.
The Influencer: So when it comes to anybody else's actions, I will formulate these stories as to like why I think what led them to make X decision.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I see
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: hypotheticals almost.
The Influencer: hypotheticals, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: And so the thing that I have found helps me in this situation is to have somebody or in a better state of mind, be able to identify for myself that I'm telling stories again.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
The Influencer: And once I recognize it as a story, I can recognize it as that potential future that it is not helpful to hyper fixate on.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Uh,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
The Influencer: You know what I mean?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So calling out the fact that I see. So
The Influencer: Yeah, it's it's like when you're a kid and you're terrified of a ghost story and the way to like calm, like your parents calmed you down is to tell you that ghosts aren't real.
The Influencer: You know, like the the understanding that it is a fairy tale.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Influencer: It's not reality is helpful.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. Hmm. But it felt like reality in your brain.
The Influencer: Oh, of course it feels like reality, dog.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, yeah.
The Influencer: ah You know? Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: does Does having more going on in the present, more stimulation in the present kind of knock you out of daydreaming about the supposed future you missed out on or will miss out on?
The Influencer: i think I think joy in the present can do that for sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah I've noticed that, that when I'm occupied in the present, I don't think about the past.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I don't think about the future.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I think about what's under my nose.
The Influencer: Well, i first for me specifically, I think it's joyful experience. And i'm not I'm not saying like seek adrenaline, enjoy constantly. Like if you're sad, like it's okay to be sad, but you know?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, no. Yeah, no I don't think you.
The Influencer: but But there are moments of like, like for example, last night I went to the Oasis concert with my sister.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, that's awesome.
The Influencer: You know, and like, ah like with my sister, those are her favorite brand grown up. I have never seen my sister.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's so cool.
The Influencer: She fully she's 40 years old. She turned 40 in August.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, that's so awesome.
The Influencer: She turned into 14 year old k Christina. Like she was screaming. She was losing her fucking mind.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I love that for you.
The Influencer: And we were just there. for It was like a two plus hour show. Great show, by the way. They sounded great. They were tight. ah And the whole fucking time we were just jamming so fucking hard.
The Influencer: Like it was it was such a uniquely joyful experience because of that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes.
The Influencer: um That like there's no other place to be but there in that moment.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right. Right.
The Influencer: You know.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes. That's why I like being with my friends, you know, like having friends over like, um you know, Justin, Justin and Morgan just came over ah two nights ago and it's such a joyful moment, drinking and eating together and telling stories.
The Influencer: I think that. Yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And oh boy, Justin has some stories that are not okay for public consumption.
The Influencer: Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right, Justin? ah ah I got you, boo. Yeah. That yeah the last thing I think of is anything bad going on or worries in the future or things in the past.
The Influencer: yeah yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I'm just so lit up in the moment. Although that some people say that's an extrovert trait. I don't know. Maybe introverts see it a little differently, but...
The Influencer: That's interesting. Maybe. But I like I think even introverts finding those moments of joy with the the people that they are comfortable with, that they do love, they do feel safe around.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's true. That's true.
The Influencer: Like it still is that same human connection.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: a smaller, a smaller group. That's true.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It's, it's just a smaller group.
The Influencer: Yeah. It's a quieter thing, but it's the same experience, I think.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah. Yeah. I totally know. That's true. That's true.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I totally get that. Well, Eric, we did it again.
The Influencer: Well, buddy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah
The Influencer: Do you forget for a minute?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: i did when you, uh, yeah, I did a little bit. We did it.
The Influencer: Um, what are we doing for the after show?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Nice.
The Influencer: I got one more in the hopper if you want to dive in, or we can also talk about, uh, the recent trips that we've been, having.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Uh,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: let's do Let's do both of those in the after show.
The Influencer: Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: To get the after show... All you have to do is sign up for our Patreon. It's as simple as that. You'll get video feeds and you'll get the after show. um You can find it in the link and support our show.
The Influencer: And you'll support our show.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: in um You'll find the link to our Patreon below the notes. Also, um leave us comments. i don't We don't say that very often, but we read all of them, both on Patreon and on Spotify or Apple Podcasts so you know i we or even a YouTube Podcasts.
The Influencer: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We scan all the comments. um Yeah, I guess I've never said that. And also, we Eric, we gave a an offer previously to critique someone's work.
The Influencer: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Someone reached out to me. Yep. Eric. His name's Eric. Eric Brockovic. Brockovic.
The Influencer: Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: um Rooted in the past, Woodworking.
The Influencer: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: He reached out. And sent me pictures of a piece he would like us to react to, like a critique.
The Influencer: Okay. Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And i was like, okay, we're going to do that.
The Influencer: Fuck yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So, um yeah.
The Influencer: Is Eric's a patron? Yeah. Okay. Do we, do we do that in the after show too? So that way everybody has the video feed and we can see the piece.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: If I can figure out how to do it. a Yes, we should. We should do that in the after show.
The Influencer: Okay. Love that. Let's make it happen.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right. Well, everyone, it was another Barstool Confessions with me and my boy
The Influencer: 10 truths, baby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: They always cut deep, always cut deep. Hope you enjoyed it. Hope you, um you know, you go through these 10 things and reflect on your own life. That's why, you know, I enjoy this because I'll be thinking about some of the things Eric said for sure.
The Influencer: yeah
The Influencer: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: um Mine, I've already thought through many times. So Eric, you know, thanks for bringing those. Those were great. They're really good.
The Influencer: I mean, this this was a good layout. I like this kind of, it was, I mean, I'd say rapid fire. It was still 90 fucking minute episode, but like the, the constant renewal and, and kind of different thoughts that we could contend with and sit back and forth with. I think that was a fun, fun layout. I like that.
The Influencer: Let's do it again in the future. All right, friends.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: right, brother. All right, everyone.
The Influencer: Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We'll see you in after show.
The Influencer: Bye.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Bye.
