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Man Finds Tape (2025) & Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery (2025)
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Ho ho ho! Merry Juicemas! What better to way to unwind from the Holiday than sitting down with some eggynog and listening to Doug and Tony yap about movies!
First up they tackle the low budget found footage horror movie Man Finds Tape and compare it to another notorious independent horror release they may have reviewed recently. They also talk everything from the Jimmy Stewart movie trailer starring Archie, the state of Magnet Releasing and do a little preliminary comparing of how their best of the year lists have shifted over time.
And then we have the new Benoit Blanc flick - Wake up dead guy! Get up! Is this the best one yet? Where does it rank in Rian Johnson's filmography? Listen and find out!!
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Transcript
00:00:14
Speaker
Just
Critique of the Jimmy Stewart Trailer
00:00:15
Speaker
get into it. I mean, I didn't even watch that trailer with sound, the Jimmy Stewart thing. It just seemed like I've never seen a faker trailer in my life. What's what's the name of that actor who, like, he's he's like a sergeant and he's going like, you can't go into the military, you're Jimmy Stewart. Some of the 21 Jump Street movies or something like that.
Unusual Casting Choices in Biopics
00:00:36
Speaker
Rob Riggle.
00:00:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Like Rob Riggle showing up in like a religious adjacent biopic. I was like, what kind of... i went to sleep last decade. I woke up this decade and I'm wondering what the hell happened. I don't even know who that actor is. Like, who is this guy? Actor playing Jimmy Stewart. Oh, like, I feel like he doesn't look anything like Jimmy Stewart. No. sin His accent sounds like something that, like...
00:01:03
Speaker
he He put on his Hinge profile or maybe more appropriately for him, Raya. He was like, ah I can do a great Jimmy Stewart impression. And they just sent voice
Riverdale's Tone and Twin Peaks Comparisons
00:01:12
Speaker
memos. And then everyone after that was you've got a great Jimmy Stewart. And just no one ever told him like. He was Archie on Riverdale. do You ever watch that show?
00:01:21
Speaker
No, but the way people talk about it sounds insane. Like, like it sounds like Twin Peaks adjacent, not in terms of quality, but in terms of like just tone.
00:01:32
Speaker
so I'm just like, what? It sounds more Lynchian than things that people claim to be Lynchian. and I'm like, i I don't even know what to make of it when when people describe the plot lines in it.
00:01:43
Speaker
the way I like from an outsider's perspective, it's still ultimately like a CW show, right? Like at any kind of comparisons to Lynch, I kind of, you know, for a slot because like how realistic. Well, that's why I, that's why I meant like, ah I meant the vibes. Yeah. More than any club. Again, I'm not, I haven't seen it. I mean, I know that, um, uh, what's her name? Who was the waitress in twin peaks, the younger one who was with Bobby, um,
00:02:11
Speaker
then they have the kid together in the return. What's your name? Bobby? but Talking about Shelly. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yeah. She's in ah um fucking Riverdale.
00:02:25
Speaker
Oh, a little bit of a passing
David Lynch and Riverdale Speculations
00:02:27
Speaker
of the torch. I guess. and like do Do you think that they ever tried to get David Lynch there? do you think that they like endlessly emailed him? I mean, it it would feel like it would be in grass because he was on the Cleveland show. So it was like if he was if he did that, like Riverdale probably feel like, yeah, we can get him. Come on. I think he had turned down, like, several other animated shows to be on Cleveland's show. i predict I think, like, maybe South Park or Simpsons. Like, things that are more prestigious than the the Cleveland show. Yeah. Like, a show that, like, people do not watch anymore because, like, inherently it's racist.
00:03:06
Speaker
Like... they like That's the one that David Lynch was like, yeah, I'm going to be sure. People who go to bat for like American Dad. They're like, and no, I watch Cleveland show. Bridge too far. But yeah, I guess Jimmy Stewart, that's also a bridge too far.
Critiquing 'Jimmy' as a Movie Title
00:03:19
Speaker
um Because I don't know who needs like military propaganda mixed with nostalgia for him. You know, like I feel like people just want him.
00:03:31
Speaker
Jimmy. it's Just call him Jimmy. Yeah. America's most beloved actor in the iconic role that saved him. Naming your movie Jimmy is a little bit of a faux pas in my books, because when you say Jimmy, I'm like, who are you speaking about? You could be talking about Jimmy Stewart. You could be talking about Jimmy Beast, Mr. Beast himself.
00:03:51
Speaker
There's so many different people who have that naming. This guy looks nothing that nothing like him. No, he doesn't. it Like, his cheeks specifically rubbed me the wrong way. You see that?
Neil McDonough's Hairpiece Controversy
00:04:02
Speaker
Yeah. Did you catch Neil McDonough wearing, like, a crazy hairpiece? Here, let me see if i do an image if I can find the where it is in the trailer. Because, like, I had to pause for because his hair made him look like someone else entirely. And I was like, what the fuck?
00:04:19
Speaker
that is that Is that my goat who know doesn't kiss on screen? i was just Googling that as we were fucking speaking. I was going to like, that was him, right? that was the like the you You heard about who joined his ranks, right?
00:04:33
Speaker
Clooney. Clooney, but his example was, yeah, Jake Kelly himself. yeah He was comparing it to, um wow, he just can't remember anyone's name tonight. Yeah.
00:04:47
Speaker
or they yeah No, of good Color of Money. And I don't know why that's the one I went to. of Paul Newman. he's using ki is' He's comparing himself to like late era Paul Newman where it's like, yeah, he's still like hot, but yeah he's not like the sex symbol on screen in terms like he gets the girl. Like that's not what the movie is about. So I think i think he directly made that comparison. So I don't think it's like a Christian, like I don't, you know, kiss my not white. At least I didn't hear it, that phrase that way from from George. Like, if you want to be like Paul Newman, you got to make like a condiment, right? Like, that was the thing that really...
00:05:25
Speaker
cemented his legacy, right? ah So, like, I want George Clooney ketchup or something like that. You know, maybe some, like, hot sauce. Tucky, right? So, maybe a barbecue sauce with George Clooney on that. I think that that would maybe be fitting for him.
00:05:40
Speaker
He also just needs to be doing more for this late era. Like, like just hang up the directing hat for a while because that's not... that's not nothing's happening there. So, um and just, yeah, just do a bunch of performances. I don't know, convince the Coens to get back together again, do another thing with them. I wouldn't be upset with him just becoming like a stage actor. i wasn't, you know, like ah against that performance of Good Night and Good Luck he did, ah though I thought it was pretty funny that he ended up playing that character himself ultimately.
00:06:11
Speaker
um Right, because in the actual Good Night, Good Luck movie, he's someone else. Yeah, it's I think it's Thrap Aaron who plays ah the guy. Yeah, correct. Okay, at 38 seconds in the Jimmy trailer, it's Neil McDonough, ah but he his hairpiece makes him fucking look like... ah Here, me get this poll right.
00:06:34
Speaker
Oh, no. There's a devilish... For the listeners at home, there's a devilish grin on Doug's face right now. Maybe he orchestrates whatever I'm about to be. yeah it looks It looks like Jared Harris. like that's ah That's what his his hair piece looks like. Let's say you've Sam Rockwell and his family from Poltergeists.
00:06:53
Speaker
and Is Jared Harris in the Poltergeist remake? He plays the ah like spirit communicator. like you know Really? yeah There was that little woman and in Poltergeist, right? and she so So they they they don't even see you to the other side. you know They don't even try to replicate that. They're just like, okay, let's let's do a different take. What if Lane Price from Mad Men... dish Yeah. what if what What if he was an alcoholic, I believe, was the character quirk he has? Like, he was drinking a lot, if I remember correctly.
00:07:24
Speaker
Oh, well that sounds kind of interesting. I always love it a drunk exorcist. Yeah, you know, like, it they got to cope with it somehow, right? You can't just, like, hunt ghosts and not have something as a vice or an escape on the side. That just I mean, that's the appealing part of like Constantine where it's like, yeah, he like looks like he just rolled out of bed and he doesn't seem like the guy who should be fighting demons or like saving the world from any kind of apocalypse, but he can bullshit his way through it. And you're like, all right, man, go ahead. Shit, man. i I'd be depressed if like saw hell every once in a while, you know, like that's not a place I want to frequently visit. Right. So like I Well, especially in the Keanu version where it's like supposedly like the Christian hell is real. Because like I think in the comics, it's just like there's multiple hells. It's kind of just like and everything is real. But like the the movie is like, no, specifically the Christian hell. And we're going by the old school Catholicism rules of you kill yourself, you go straight to hell. So like he's just damned for that. I love Peter Stormare in the Constantine movie. I'm the Constantine movie fan, ah but I think that he specifically is on fire. He's literally on fire when shows up. There's like hot coals or whatever. Just that whole scene is perfect. Yeah, which is...
00:08:44
Speaker
The exact opposite thing that I would say about the Jimmy Stewart trailer that you have been laboriously scanning over like a Ziprooter film, you know? like year Yeah. Okay. Well, speaking speaking of shaggy paranormal experts, I think that's as clean a transition we can get to. ah ah Today on These Guys Got Juice, we're going to start talking The Man Finds Tape, ah the...
00:09:11
Speaker
2025 movie by Paul Gandersman and Peter S. Hall. So I i just recommended this to you based on not its quality, but like all the other found footage stuff we've been covering this year. This felt like...
00:09:26
Speaker
it it it just We just had to talk about it because like it it does, I think, some interesting things with the form. I don't know that it like lands the plane fully narratively, but it's it goes there's there's there's there's a point where like where I'm kind of like, oh, okay, this is interesting. And then I'm like, whoa!
00:09:46
Speaker
like I don't want to call it jumping the shark because it's like it's it's it's beyond a show it's like jumping over a a whale or something or they go inside the whale.
00:09:58
Speaker
I can tell you exactly the action that is jumping the shark in this film. It's unhooking a worm from inside of your body that's appearing from a gaping hole in your body, and like in your back, you know? This movie like pretty well constructed in the first couple of acts where it's like, okay, we're going to mount the tension. We're going to give you like the appropriate information to build a decent mystery. Then after a certain point, it's just like, no, we're going to be Grave Encounters now. And when it does that transition into like this more absurd, uh, set piece, reliant found footage or extravaganza, like that's when I kind of fell off of it. Um, But to go back to what you were saying to introduce this film, like based on the found footage films that we've been watching previously, is it makes total sense to talk about this movie. I feel like Shelby Oaks is a film that you had brought up when we were talking about ah discussing this movie. But I also find that there's a lot of butterfly kisses in this movie. Oh, absolutely.
00:10:56
Speaker
Because especially from the first scenes where the narration starts bringing up like Bigfoot footage and the Loch Ness Monster and comparing it to other myths where i was like, oh, are we about to create a mythology here? Kind of similar to Peeping Tom with with butterfly kisses where it's like now they're finding their own urban legend or researching it. And Not really like that. That's not what the movie is about, but it's like throwing that idea out there of just kind of the narratives that people follow with that kind of footage and things. Cause like they're, they're saying this like, yeah, if people just see a guy in a Bigfoot costume, but this footage is like persists forever and it's going to be known as the Bigfoot footage, regardless of how real it is. So, um,
00:11:45
Speaker
the movie itself doesn't seem as interested in playing with like what, because like you reach a certain point where it's like, no, this is, this is all happening. you You know, like, like you, there is, you know, some tension initially, like, I feel like it doesn't last that long because it becomes too big to be like, okay, this can't be in all these characters heads. Like, this is like actually like a thing. But since we're seeing it through this, this initially through the sisters POV, like she is the more,
00:12:13
Speaker
grounded POV. And, you know, like there's a brother and a sister, which that was already, i was like, Oh, like Shelby Oaks began with two sisters. Like, I hope, I hope we're not going there.
00:12:24
Speaker
This is definitely a better movie than they, they kind of do. This is a better movie than Shelby Oaks, but it has, there is some overlap in terms of ah problems, but I, I would definitely give man finds tape the edge. And i it's not even like a strong recommend, but there's creativity there. And, you know, and like I can always go to bat for like a swing. And there's, as we've alluded to, like two thirds through the movie, there is a pretty big swing. So for some people that might work. For me, I'm just like, I don't know what to make of that. ah it And we'll well don'll talk about it. But yeah, I i think that this...
00:13:07
Speaker
Because what other found footage have we had this year? Like Shelby Oaks, like barely counts. And then create this. what Which one? ah VHS Halloween.
00:13:17
Speaker
Oh, Ernie erased that from my mind. Yeah, rightfully so. um i don't think that 2025 has been like a great found footage year, right? like Yeah, it just felt like because I had watched a lot of good found, you know, I like, like, Butterfly Kisses and Savage Land back to back. And I'm like, oh, found footage, fucking awesome. And then all the movies that I've watched since then, I mean, that sets the bar a little high. ah Maybe once I catch up with the rec movies, ah i i still got see the I've only seen the first two recs and I want to watch like three and four.
00:13:55
Speaker
So maybe that that Elvis is like more positive on three and four. But I found because like in three, they do something and then it changes the kinds of movies those movies are.
00:14:07
Speaker
Like it doesn't it doesn't even stay found footage, right? It becomes kind of like almost like Evil Dead-y, like horror. More low budget, less inventively filmed is what I should say about that. It it becomes more of a traditional a zombie movie. And with with some interest there, lot points because like Wreck is, ah you know...
00:14:27
Speaker
a theology-based zombie outbreak, which is, that's an interesting spin on it. um I just think that when it does exit the realm of found footage, the series does plummet.
00:14:38
Speaker
um ah To kind of go back to Man Finds Tape, um one thing that I really wanted to hammer home early on is ah this movie was only made for like just over 10K.
00:14:49
Speaker
like It's not a very expensive movie. you can You can tell, but but then that makes me give it more credit. that It's like, wow, okay. yeah with With just an imaginative story, you can you can pull off a lot for for for that. I mean, like yes, the effects...
00:15:06
Speaker
Later on, when they're like, you know, getting more ambitious, you can tell they're kind of exceeding their grasp there. But ah in terms of like, especially in the beginning, like building like a a cohesive world, i see I feel like they are pretty successful, especially for something so low budget. Yeah. And one thing that's important to point out because we've already invoked Shelby Oaks and narratively they share a lot in common. But one thing to point to is a lot of people defended Shelby Oaks as this like low budget, you know, ah darling that we need to protect because it's like a young voice that needs to be, you know, fostered to become a great. And and let's think about this movie, right? Like, I think that this movie isn't like great. I think it's like good, ah maybe like a bit less than that in points.
00:15:52
Speaker
um And when it comes to what this movie accomplishes and, you know, allows for a rest of all over afterwards, I found this a far more rewarding experience than Shelby Oaks. Oh, absolutely. Made by the people who made this, right?
00:16:06
Speaker
so I would rather champion be in this because... Yeah, ah could because I think given the time and like nurturing of like, if if if they were given a bigger budget or just like ah more resources to do whatever they want for another project, I could see these guys being on...
00:16:24
Speaker
a kind of Benson and Moorhead, like kind of like their their early stuff before before they went corporate and start working for Marvel. and I mean, i think they I think they still do occasionally like will make a little movie, but i I think they're maybe just too busy now because they're also like...
00:16:41
Speaker
They keep getting more Marvel jobs. and it's like, it's weird. They became like the Marvel TV guys. It's like them when they made no budget horror sci-fi movies. Like, I'm not going to say that they're bad filmmakers or that they're lazy. Right. Because I do think that it took a lot of work and effort to make the films that they did. But I've never been like a huge Benson and Moorhead like ban. Because I always got a feeling of like, you know, this is this is.
00:17:07
Speaker
almost like basic spins. Not to say that I'm not trying to discredit the films. I think the movies are good, right? But it's like they're very like basic formulaic plots with like a basic twist. as twist And those two things may not have been done before. And it's interesting to watch that thing play out. But I wouldn't say that like Benson and Moorhead were on the same level as like other more interesting genre filmmakers in the space at the same time.
00:17:31
Speaker
Sure. I felt like they were just like ah companion filmmakers, but like, oh, and I'm not watching the other genre of filmmakers from this era. I watched them, especially if I appreciate mumblecore. So for them to like transition into the MCU, I've never really seen them as like, you know, committed, you know, important artists within a small field.
00:17:50
Speaker
They always felt like a Wingard type to me where... I mean, they're they're VFX guys, right? Like, they're VFX guys who, like, were able to fuck around and, like, make some kind of cool-looking stuff on a small budget. So ah then getting access to... But I think the the thing of the MCU move, which weirded me out because, like, I don't even watch all those shows, but the ones that I saw, like, they did some Moon Knight episodes and, like, and they look like shit. So i was like, oh, I thought if you guys were given more budget... Maybe you could do something that looked like something because you made cool looking stuff on no budget. Like, like so like I agree with you that they're not like reinventing the wheel and they're not like as exciting as other like low budget genre filmmakers. It's just like in terms of what they're able to accomplish on that scale, I think is was was and impressive. So it was just like the the level, the leveling up didn't really wasn't really a level up, I guess. Or i don't know, maybe.
00:18:49
Speaker
Maybe the rest of... Because I think they're also doing the Daredevil Born Again. Maybe the rest of that season's good. I never finished it. Well, like, that's this that's the razor's edge whenever somebody, like you had labeled it, leveled up, right? Like, when when someone levels up, they can sometimes fumble really hard. And the reason being for that is that, like, while within the context of a lower budget or, um you know, a genre ah space, ah they need to be afforded a lot more, um like...
00:19:17
Speaker
you know, leeway, you know, ah i always say that, like, horror fans are an easy lay, right? But, like, in this case, I wouldn't say that's, you know, 100% accurate for Ben Silverhead. They made good movies, you know?
00:19:28
Speaker
um But then when you get to a spot where you make good movies and then you're asked to make, like, some people's only movies they see that year, right? Or only television they see that year. And you're so to be just kind of okay, right?
00:19:45
Speaker
Then people kind of start to feel let down by that, right? ah So, i like, that's what I think a good example of how that... that that leveling up could be overwhelming was like when Nia DaCosta did the Marvels, ah which I never even saw that movie, but they did like so threw her under the bus so hard. And there's a weird pattern of like the shows that marveled are things Marvel fails to promote and when they throw their actors and creatives under the bus, there's like some kind of connection that I can't quite make out. I'm getting an echo in here. can Can't quite put my finger on it. But ah yeah, she she said that she she just felt overwhelmed by the machinery of it and wasn't really given any help. But she was able to bounce back. I haven't seen Hedda yet. That's definitely on my the end of the year to finish off list. But ah it sounds like that she's definitely like recovered. And then based on also like early reports of Bone Temple,
00:20:47
Speaker
which people are saying is more divisive than, because it's not that like the first 28 years was like, totally like an uncrowed pleasing movie, but it's also not interested in being a typical like zombie movie. and And I feel like some, maybe some audiences, I definitely know some people were put off by that or just, it took them a while to adjust to like what the movie was. So the fact that her sequel is going to like take things even weirder and maybe farther from that. I'm like, yeah, ah let's fucking go. like Just to kind of get off the jump there, you were talking about Hedda. Doug, you're definitely going love Hedda. I just get that impression that you're going to get it. you know like It's a very ah pop twist on a classic tale. I don't mean pop in a derivative or demeaning sense. you know
00:21:38
Speaker
I think that ah it does what it does ah very entertainingly and and with a ah really high level of craft. um Going to the Bone Temple, I feel like... ah whatever kind of divisiveness the film is going to have, it's going to come down to the Alex Garland script, really.
00:21:53
Speaker
Right? Yeah. It's like Alex Garland with 28 years later, that's one of his best scripts to date. Like that's because of the way that it's able to evolve the zombie outbreak myth in like infusing some level of intelligence while also having an underlying current of commuting you know, commentary on modern day Britain. That's very deft stuff. I think that Nia DaCosta has the talent to do those things. um I think that when as a filmmaker, the areas where we start to see her kind of stumble a bit, like I'm thinking about the Candyman remake, is that she definitely has things that she wants to express, but then sometimes um goes about it.
00:22:33
Speaker
Like with Candyman, like she had a really clearly defined take where she went like more modern- in its commentary, but in a way she also kind of robbed ah the urgency of the original film.
00:22:46
Speaker
And that way, like the Marvels, she really, like that, she got taken for a ride. Like she was going to, you know, go off to make Hedda and then the movie, the studio took it away from her in the editing process.
00:22:57
Speaker
There's nothing really you can do but about that. That's a ah studio that just took advantage of the filmmaker who is busy with other things. I think that it's ah important to ah recognize that, you know, there are frauds. amongst the filmmaking sphere. um But then there are some people who get largely maligned as a fraud when they don't really deserve it at all. I don't think that Nia da Costa is somebody that we should be like going laughing them out of every single... No, i I definitely don't think so. In fact, the opposite, like I'm very interested this interested to see what she does, even if, like you said, some of her batting average is uneven. Because like Candyman is an awesome looking movie, but like, yeah, conceptually, story-wise, it's not all there. But I always also always wonder, because it always feels like
00:23:43
Speaker
There's like a chunk missing from that movie. It's like, yeah like in the last act, like did someone just cut out 30 pages of this or something? It just like jumps to like, like they're like, oh fuck, he needs to be Candyman now. So you just go to that. i you I don't think that you're wrong because there's like,
00:24:00
Speaker
many cut scenes that are in the trailer that aren't in the film. And whenever I see something like that, even if it's not like directly reported on, I just think to myself exactly what you said. They probably got cut down at some point. They were probably like, you know, per screen average makes it so this movie would make, you know, 10 million more dollars if we made the X-Match shorter. And I know there were reshoots at the like for the ending because they added Tony. to He wasn't originally, which is crazy to think that he wasn't going to be in the movie at all. But like that like when Tony Todd's like little appearance at the end, like that was part of like some of the reshoots. So it's like, yeah, the end the ending is where that movie really like starts to get real fuzzy. But um speaking of movies with fuzzy endings, back to Man Finds Tape. Yeah.
00:24:49
Speaker
Yes, clearly a reflection of the film itself that we are kind of like dancing around talking about it. But to kind of like get deeper into it and and and not in the too spoiler we leeway, ah another way that this film is similar to Shelby Oaks is that it often ah imitates the aesthetics of ARGs and like online storytelling. I thought a lot about like analog storytelling that people are so into these days. I feel like there's a lot of that in this movie.
00:25:15
Speaker
um But I do think that this movie gets that aspect much better. than yeah I agree. ah Because so much of it, it's not just... So, you know, the setup is there's there's this sister and brother and the brother...
00:25:30
Speaker
the fox found a tape one day. You know, like man finds tape. That's the brother. It is the man who found the tape. And then he becomes like this web sensation because he starts posting videos about him trying to get to the bottom of like what was on this tape. So we're seeing we're seeing the tape he found. We're seeing recordings from his computer screen. And then we're seeing like there's the framework of like, oh, the sister's making a documentary. And we're we're seeing the pieces of that.
00:25:59
Speaker
But then even like the intertextuals in her documentary aren't like a normal doc. It is, does feel more like ARG, like, uh, that, that this is like kind of gamified of like putting the pieces of, of this mystery together. And it's important to note, too, that while Shelby Oaks is clearly a film that we're comparing it to for narrative similarities, I feel like that both of these films are independently drawing from Lake Mungo ah in its construction of this kind of documentary narrative that we're starting out on. and's And I think that this film approaches this aspect a bit better because, you know, like, certainly there's the passion of the sister who wants to make this film to, like, you know, get to the bottom of whatever happened with her brother.
00:26:46
Speaker
ah But I also think that there's a level of healthy detachment that's also here in the storytelling. It doesn't feel like the at any point the story just then ah gets too involved with its own mystery. Like there's still like ah a layer of discoverability and the showmanship and how this thing how everything is presented to us. How many found footage films have you seen?
00:27:07
Speaker
Where it just ends on like a crazy, you know, like, oh, we're going to do one last chase and then it's done. This movie has like a definitive ending and like a, it's clearly been edited to finality by the end of this movie.
00:27:19
Speaker
ah So I think that in that there's a lot more intentionality and it speaks to the professionalism of the people who are in charge of making this movie. Yeah, yeah, I agree. um So I feel like let's just get into spoilers because there's some crazy shit in this movie. um ah I think we're kind of both on the same page of like some parts of it don't completely work, but I i would still say it's good-ish.
00:27:45
Speaker
you know, to like the parts that do work are, are compelling. And if you're into these kinds of, like if you've enjoyed any of our other found footage coverage, then this is worth checking out. I mean, especially if you like low budget or filmmaking, like, uh, it, it, there's, it's, it's, it's not, you won't feel like you wasted your time. i didn't feel like I wasted my time. Even if the end, I was like, huh? I,
00:28:09
Speaker
Huh? Tim Allen? Yeah. But the the the the thing piggyback off of that is, like, this movie isn't going to change the way that you view found footage. I agree that this is, like, a great one to view within context of the films that we had spoken about. And I also feel as though this would be a great, like, it's late at night.
00:28:32
Speaker
You're looking for a horror movie. You don't need you to be good. you're You're going to fall asleep, maybe. I need to throw something on. Yeah. And this movie does a great job of, like, the initial mystery, as I said earlier, where when it starts to kind of drip feed you this stuff and you're kind of getting into this mystery um ah on the first 45 minutes, I'd say, ah it really ramps in an interesting way that, like...
00:28:55
Speaker
but lets Let's say you're the type to just kind of like sit in your bed. You've got like a ah joint. You're just like, i got I got to get to the bottom of this mystery. If you're to joint one hand, you're watching it on your phone in another hand, like like David Lynch intended. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's kind of the ideal way to watch this, like in late at night. And maybe you're like a little sleep deprived too and nodding off during parts of the movie, not because it's boring, but because you're just that tired or maybe you're under a hypnotic influence from the tape itself. Yeah.
00:29:25
Speaker
of Which is such a cool idea. if you find yourself watching this movie and falling asleep, it's not because the movie was bad. It's because there's an any universe reason and you're just you're just not capable of watching the movie. yeah Right now, you know, try a different one. This one's all yours. But that's such a good, like, built-in excuse of like, no, I guess you just didn't get the movie because like that that's the effect the tape has. It's actually not the quality itself.
00:29:51
Speaker
So it's really on you. ah but their bases. Yeah. they covered all their bases, but we're, we're in spoilers now and we kind of alluded to it before, but this movie is fully trying to like create like its own like creepy pasta vibe. And, and, and I think it was more successful way than, than Shelby Oaks, uh, because like, uh, because one, it stays in this format for the whole movie. So unlike Shelby Oaks, where it began kind of interesting and then, drew you know, just fucking gave up like a quitter,
00:30:22
Speaker
ah that I can kind of buy in more and buy into the sensationally sensationalization of this guy's story and like how it would go viral of him like posting about finding these tapes and how the urban legend like grew from that, which is like why it begins with that opening about big Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster and those connections. It's not really about like the hoaxiness of it all. It's more about like like how legends like spread. and And since we're bringing it back to the beginning, I think it's important to point out how this movie opens with this 911 call where it's like this man, he ran into the wall and he disappeared.
00:31:00
Speaker
And yeah like that's ah that's an interesting hook. As a person who's watching this, you're like, okay, i know that there's going to be some kind of spirituality or mysticism at play. We're going to reach to this point. My issue with it is that...
00:31:14
Speaker
Kind of when I'm watching these movies, any kind of found footage thing that has this kind of hook, um if they're going to promise me something like that, i i I expect that that's going to be the peak, right? I expect that that's going to be the thing that, for oh my God, I can't believe this is what happens, right?
00:31:31
Speaker
The fact that we get a scene later on where the same guy who disappears into the wall slits the throat of a pregnant woman and she magically heals herself and is able to like be on camera for interviews later. I feel like you lead with that.
00:31:45
Speaker
I feel like you say like, hey, this woman like died and is okay. And she is the thing that we need to kind of understand what happened here. But instead we have to view it from this angle of her boyfriend who is this, you know, ah mystery, you know, YouTuber. and and And one thing I found funny about him was that he had so many followers. He was like a million followers. and like, for this? Maybe not. The one thing I'll say before I want to hand it off, because there there's something that I felt was so crazy to me as a plot detail.
00:32:15
Speaker
The fact that his girlfriend, because it's the surrogate of the priest, that he is so... obsessed with. like she was It's to do with his parents' death. right like why like Despite the fact that she needs the money right because she makes that clear. She's like hey i like, I need the cat for the surrogacy.
00:32:36
Speaker
Why would... Women's bodily autonomy is totally valid and obvious. you know But if I heard that my girlfriend wanted to do surrogacy for the main person who I thought was you know the source of my family's trauma, And in who maybe like molested me as a child or something like based on like the the eeriness of that video where it's like, what's what's happening here? I don't even I can't even tell what's happening.
00:33:00
Speaker
And so that that that's who ah there should have if that's going to be the plot point, then that should be constant tension between him and his girlfriend about that. And they seem kind of OK. Like other than she's like, yeah, I don't know. He's been kind of weird about this conspiracy stuff, but he's not like getting.
00:33:20
Speaker
angry at her about it like oh what are you doing going around with the reverend and he got fucking demon baby in you or something like he's not worried about that another character becomes concerned about the you know that that baby but we'll we'll get to to that guy but uh it's it's it's weird that they don't give any of that to the brother Oh, for sure. And then also like the way that this information is given to us as like a reveal that it's like, oh, yeah, she was pregnant because of this. And it's like, now, wait a second. Like that is directly linked to like his motivations for why he would be doing this. And instead of the film kind of tosses it off as an afterthought, I do think that the pieces are there for it to be an interesting reveal. But I feel like that, again, that's something you lead with.
00:34:07
Speaker
That's something that you say like, hey, she got the surrogacy and then the stuff started to spiral. And and then that at that point, it's like if we viewed the viral videos from that context, of context they would give us like a level of ah we wouldn't trust the protagonist as much. We would we would be more, ah you would be more of an untrustworthy narrator. The film tries to like paint him as untrustworthy and unreliable narrator is what they call him several times.
00:34:36
Speaker
But I don't feel as though he earns that title. Like, he's proven right too often to the degree where it's like, I don't think he has anything to apologize for by the end of the movie. He's, like, immediately validated, but so many times because there's, there's like, footage to back up stuff that he's saying and then other people will have experienced this stuff. And so it's not like that he's alone, like, and there's no one else to verify anything. It's like... No, actually, we can point to several things to show that he's correct. And we don't, it doesn't take too long to get to that evidence. So like we yeah we don't really get to sit in in any period of time feeling that like, oh, yeah, this guy's spiraling or going crazy. So maybe that's why they yada yada over the surrogacy because they're like, we're not even interested in doing the like... Is is he crazy or not? But I feel like there's tension there. And that's like an element, even if a lot of found footage movies do do that. But that's what I mean, it's a source of dramatic tension. Like you you could you could mine it for the ah stuff between the brother, the sister between the brother and the girlfriend. Like there's there's there's there's stuff there. And I also felt that the way that the sister and brother's relationship was introduced the beginning of the film made it seem like they were far more distant than they actually were. The fact that like the beginning of their correspondence starts with like, hey, like you gotta to listen, like trust me, like watch me while I watch this tape. Like I get the impression that they hadn't spoken in like months, if not years. And when we get that conversation then followed through by they start to connect again, it felt like instantaneous and similar what you're saying And then we also learned that they had been making videos together kind of recently. Like, it was like the entire time, like, through their family's business and then through her business of making videos that they' they've worked together. Like, it seemed like the only time where they started to be this rift was...
00:36:31
Speaker
when his notoriety from the videos started to affect her career, like, the people came up to her because they thought something happened to the brother or something, and, like, she kind of, by proxy, became, like, famous, and then that's, like, why she was upset. But that doesn't directly... Like, that...
00:36:50
Speaker
That's a valid source for to be frustrated with your sibling, but it doesn't translate to the way that she plays it. It play it plays more like strange, like, oh, they haven't talked since their parents died or something, you know, like, or some shit like that. But it's like, no, they...
00:37:06
Speaker
been around the whole time. The movie knows that ultimately it's supposed to be about the rekindling of their relationship as brother and sister. But we've kind of been dancing around like what this movie is about or like what the fright of this movie is because like ultimately it doesn't really have anything to do with like their connection. Like their connection is kind of more a reaction to whatever is happening around them.
00:37:30
Speaker
And specifically on that point, like we have this reverend character who is possibly like planning some kind of like, you know, i guess like antichrist slash possessed child plot.
00:37:42
Speaker
And there's like this guy who's aware of his plot, but then also kind of trying to stop them, but also kind of not trying to do that. Yeah, also just wants to piggyback off his thing and like get his power or something. Like his thing isn't really explained, which I kind of like that. That's just kind of an ellipses of like this guy just shows up and then he's gone. And we don't like you're like, oh, is he going to be a problem later?
00:38:07
Speaker
Maybe. i don't know. Yeah. i thought I think that he was an interesting presence to put into the movie. But then I also find that there's this, like...
00:38:19
Speaker
Sometimes, like, would we already invoked jumping the shark, right? But it's like, sometimes when you introduce, like, a pretty grounded story, and then all of a sudden you have somebody breaks, like, the laws of reality, just jump in like that, no problem, no questions asked.
00:38:34
Speaker
ah it It feels like a little bit of a cheat. ah Like, I think that you can do something like this. I just, like, there was a point where I was like, this feels unearned to me. They don't ease us into it. Like, we see glimpses, you're like, oh He was at the church during this one footage and he wasn't affected by the same trance or or whatever. And then the brothers following the leads from that. But as soon he immediately finds them and then the the stranger's immediately doing crazy supernatural shit. So it doesn't doesn't ease you into it. Like we're referencing Constantine earlier. Like this guy is a very like bootleg Constantine vibe. Like he's wearing a trench coat. He looks kind of shaggy.
00:39:13
Speaker
seems to have some knowledge of the occult, but isn't really forthcoming about like what his deal is, ah which is like an interesting hook for a character, like you said, but yeah, it doesn't, the time we spent building up this world, he feels out of place, which he is supposed to, I guess, but like you could have introduced that element more naturally because yeah, ah it's it, it,
00:39:41
Speaker
I feel like that just goes along with all of the third act stuff where it's like on paper, I don't even hate that this is where the story goes. It's the fact of how we get there and how quickly it escalates or degrades or rather like reality just kind of crumbles away that I was like, I kind of wish that we like found a way to to have both sides of it, of like you kind of keep it a little grounded, but we could still go the Cuckoo's Banana Town if we want to, but like just kind of ease us into it. Yeah. Like easing into it would be amazing. Also the degree to which their powers are displayed. Maybe we could tone that down. Like I don't need to have like some kind of magical bag that knocks people unconscious for you to extract their worms.
00:40:32
Speaker
Um, I, I, I like that the film ends on this question where it's like, we have the bag, we have the book. Um, I, But ultimately, it does feel like scraps from like another story that the filmmakers wanted to make that just kind of enters into this one. you can do that, and while that can be interesting, like ah like I was alluding to before, it it kind of brings this movie to this grave encounters kind of realm where it's more interested in ah technical showcases and set pieces rather than like traditional scares.
00:41:07
Speaker
Any kind of atmosphere or mystery or intrigue that this movie was inspiring earlier on is gone by the third act. And it it really does feel like a missed opportunity.
00:41:18
Speaker
This movie was billing itself as a question mark. And then it gets to a spot where there are no questions really by the end. The questions you have are largely incidental. we We know everything that matters to these characters. Right. Like the question is kind of just like...
00:41:34
Speaker
what the fuck was with that stranger guy? But like in terms of like what was going on with the town, that is all I answered. Um, because like you think it's going to be about kind of like, so, so we've ah talked about like the hypnotic states that the, the, the tape send you into, which I thought was such a cool, like,
00:41:53
Speaker
ah premise, but like, I thought this was all going to be kind of like a metaphor for how ah small towns don't see the evil in front of them. And that's even in the narration of like with the real monsters or rights among us, we don't even see them. And that is kind what it's about with like the reverend. But I feel like that gets lost. Like once we start bringing in the stranger with the bag and like, know, like these ah otherworldly worms, like, like that, that's like a Resident Evil plot line. And then you're dropping that into, i don't know that it like gels with the metaphor. i think that the thing that this movie is itching to be more so is it's trying to be like a metaphor for like the people who don't leave their hometown, right?
00:42:38
Speaker
Those who like are are are like there, they watch their community change and grow, but they themselves don't grow. And then they become victims of the things that like, that were there when they were younger and they were like more feisty and they used to criticize.
00:42:52
Speaker
Because like the idea of, you know, anybody who's in this geolocation being influenced by this pastor, um I think that there's something to say about like the municipality and the space in which you grow up. Talking about also how these ah parents mysteriously died in this space as well.
00:43:09
Speaker
How one person decides to move on and one doesn't. It's all there. ah The problem is, is that the movie... It's like, no, I was into the family, the small town stuff. And like you said, the trench coat guy just feels like his own thing. Like, it's like, oh, they're setting up a spinoff or something. Like, he's going to get his own movie.
00:43:29
Speaker
He's going to be in the fucking Siren 2. He's going to replace the other guy. He does look like he's from a Siren movie. Really really quick, I do want to shout out the actor. I don't know what you're talking about. The movie is... I can't even lie. The movie fucking sucks.
00:43:45
Speaker
and good shout out John Golson. Uh, I think that's you pronounce his name. who plays the Reverend Carr, because like, this is a very stock character of like, Oh, the sinister small town Reverend. But I think he does, ah bring a little juice to, to, to the performance. And I believe he's, um,
00:44:04
Speaker
a You know, friend of the pod, Colleen Carney, she's actually friends with with that actor. So um oh i saw her I saw her make a post about it, that her friend was in this. So that's actually why how the movie got on my radar. So i was like, oh, what's this? Oh, it's a found footage movie.
00:44:19
Speaker
ah But yeah, he's good at eating. On mic. I want this on mic. I want to talk to that man because that man was the best actor in this movie. i am so i I'm going to... It's a lie.
00:44:30
Speaker
i Yeah, I think I might send Colleen a text to like, hey, you can't me can we get in touch with with him? because ah you He was a good actor. To kind of build off of what you were saying there.
00:44:42
Speaker
i Going even back to what I was alluding to with the ARG stuff... When you watch like an ARG or when you watch like a analog horror series on YouTube, the majority of them are trying to do like some kind of lo-fi, just like crazy cult or like some kind of like indoctrination process that you, the viewer, are partaking in when you're watching it.
00:45:05
Speaker
That's usually how they're structured. And what I really admired about the way that this storyline was delivered was that it's just this guy on this couch, ah but his ideas and the things he's saying are so sinister that they're kind of lulling you into this kind of small sense of security and stability only for you to do the whims of what he desires.
00:45:25
Speaker
And I felt that as an actor, that guy really played that ah deftly. Like he he he ah played it like he was like a pastor, but then there was that darkness that was just bubbling up underneath. Yeah.
00:45:37
Speaker
From the performance and then also the aesthetic of it, I feel like nailed the public access pastor vibes more than other attempts I've seen at trying to do like fake public access, like low budget <unk> stuff like it that that that felt genuine. Like that felt like the realest part of the movie. The fact that, like, his character becomes like this and he just kind of fucked off and died aspect, I wish that he was more directly taken out by the protagonist. I feel like that that could have been some kind of catharsis even for the brother and sister.
00:46:09
Speaker
But then also I do like that there's just this open-ended question. If I felt that they kind of... jumping of the ill the hook of the worm ah was too much for the story to survive.
00:46:21
Speaker
us Focusing more on something like that would have grounded the arcs that it was setting up initially. Because the worm thing is from the pasture, so that should be our resolution if that's the route we're going down. But then the stranger kind of just takes him out and then absorbs his power, which feels like some kind of like fucking Dragon Ball Z plot point or something like I've drained your powers and then he just goes into a portal goodbye yeah I guess she survives well good luck then and then disappears you know fucks off I do like the reveal that the child that she was carrying just kind of goes to some adoption agency I think that that is like a a very leftover and overs Ian yeah
00:47:09
Speaker
ah to plot device ah yeah But also like afford some kind of humanity to whatever child that she was carrying. Because you watch a million of these movies and you just kind of go, oh, great. She's cooking up an antichrist.
00:47:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's going to be a worm baby. The baby's going come out with the the worm head or it's going to be fucking eraser head. Bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's just like a normal kid. And she's like, yeah, I sent them on their way. And I'm like, yeah, that's the right way to do it. And you did it. Like, you did everything right. Nothing nothing bad came to that character because she did everything right. yeah know rough flip but she was possessed, you know? shes Yeah, and then it all it does it all works out. i I do like how the actors play the eeriness of, like, the possession or the trance of because it's like...
00:47:58
Speaker
you have some awareness at the beginning and tail. And even if it's like, the you know, blurs your memory around the event, that like you're, you're conscious and then you like, you know, your head drops and then you come back to, and you're kind of just like, what happened? But,
00:48:15
Speaker
Even watching the video of what happened, just re-entered, they re-entered the trance, but they still are aware that something happened. Like, like the bartender, like calls her back later. is like, I keep thinking about that video you showed me. Did, did, did I see something? Like he can't remember what he saw, but he knows that something happened.
00:48:37
Speaker
mean And that mystery itself, the idea that these people who watch these tapes just pass out, and then the added layer of this mystery being that it's geolocated, the fact that it's just these people who within this town or grew up in this town or live in this town ah are affected and people who just aren't usually, who are just on the on the border or something, the people who are able to just come in, they're unaffected. The fact that that mystery feels more or less unchallenged at points, ah feels like a mistake. It feels like the filmmakers should have dwelled and ah dived into that mystery more because that was a hook that really or propelled a lot of the first couple of acts. Or had some kind of lingering mystery because ah once you introduce the worm element, it's like, oh, okay, she doesn't have the worms because she moved away. And that's why she was unaffected. It's like a very neat and tidy.
00:49:34
Speaker
It's like, okay, that mystery answered. Whereas if we had more question marks around that, it would still be kind of eerie of like... what yeah what power that these tapes have? It's like, ah so maybe like don't connect it so directly to the worm thing where it's like, no, actually you could not have the worms and still be affected by the tape or or like this geolocation trance or something. It's like, do you just just make the worms incidental. of Like, oh yeah, there's also worms that actually doesn't have anything to do with what's happening. Yeah, because if they did something like that, then it's like it would feed into this mystery about the Loch Ness Monster or the Bigfoot, like we were talking about. There would be more question marks.
00:50:15
Speaker
To bring it back to Shelby Oaks, too, um this movie's biggest sin is doing too much. it yeah you know It's not that it doesn't have the ideas to make a compelling movie. It's just that...
00:50:31
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't like find the right levels for them. It doesn't like synthesize them in the appropriate ways. Shelby Oaks has like two, three ideas max. And when you're watching, you're like...
00:50:42
Speaker
Get to it, man. Like, come on. yeah and and and And again, not to harp on this, but it's like you make that movie for a million and a half and you get a bunch of people coming out of the woodworks being like, come on, like he's small bean.
00:50:54
Speaker
And again, this movie costs 10K. And it's like, come on, man. You can make a movie for 10K that like looks okay. And but narratively has enough things to where we can talk about it for an hour and not feel like it, you know, we're like digging like it actually has enough there for us to discuss. That's actually compelling.
00:51:13
Speaker
This is that um it's just in that management. ah So that's why I think that as filmmakers, something like this is more promising because that tone management's like once you kind of handle that, you're actually off to the races. So management and then just as you be get more experience streamwriting, you figure out which parts to streamline because it's not like we're saying don't have these all these like layered ideas and creativity in there. It's just like figure out a lane, like what you want to focus on.
00:51:43
Speaker
Yeah. and And not even like figure out in the sense of like what means the most to them as filmmakers. But what I'm about to say is going to be an extension of that. But it's also like when you write a story, when you have a bunch of characters that you've populated within it and you've decided, OK, this is what my thread is, my narrative thread of how these things are going to be delivered.
00:52:05
Speaker
sometimes you have to kind of reevaluate what the most interesting perspective to jump into this is and while I do like that the sister being the documentarian I think that that all works I just think that her focus as a documentarian actually doesn't work I i feel like like the the things that she chooses to focus on for what this thing actually is ultimately leaves this film ah feeling a little inconsistent and rather built around ah an experience of me, the person knowing that this is a fake documentary at home, like analyzing this stuff and just experiencing this as a rollercoaster ride. The movie's designed around that rather than any kind of like digging into it beyond the skin surface. And I wish that it would go a bit further because those chips to go a bit deeper, they're on the table. Yeah, absolutely. i was also ah crew shouting out people and in the cast. I like the the older twins that they interview. they were I like wanted more of them. I kind of just wanted more of the town. like I know it's low budget and you intentionally are keeping it small because that just you know inflates the thing once you start adding more people. And you can get away with that because it's small town. It's just...
00:53:16
Speaker
That's one of the more appealing parts of things set in small towns is having these like little quirky characters. And it so like, yeah, give me give me more of those people. Well, you know, ah this is no Savage Land. You know, Savage Land was made for 100K, you know.
00:53:31
Speaker
So, you know, yeah the difference between ten k and 100K. That's what that's true Like it should have been an ensemble. It should have been like, you know, here are all the kooky characters who are in this town. And maybe maybe because they're in this trance-like state, right?
00:53:47
Speaker
ah The people in this town who pass out during these times, maybe we could find out that some of these people are more integral to the plot down the road and not all about it, right?
00:53:58
Speaker
Because if some people are more infected than others, it has nothing to do with how involved they are. Sure. Mentally, right? It has everything to do with themselves like as a vessel.
00:54:08
Speaker
So I think that like just from the the question that arisen there, the movie itself could have been more dramatically compelling if you had this whole townload of people. They were all in different degrees of infection and they were all in different degrees of proximity to the pastor itself. But instead, it's very tidy because it just links everything back to his siblings. It links everything back to siblings and and the threat within the town is resolved even if the stranger status is like left up in the air. That like I feel like that almost...
00:54:41
Speaker
is a little antithetical to the point they're trying to make about how people can be blind to the small town threats where it's like, no, the evil has been vanquished. with The priest definitively, he lit on fire after the worms got taken out of him.
00:54:56
Speaker
He's gone. the town is safe. The small towns are safe again. Whereas it would be more interesting linger on like, no, there is no safe. And also like the message that you're positing there, you know, like this idea of protecting a small community is instantly invalidated when you remember the fact that like the people that this film is being designed for is not the people who live in this town. It's for the people who live outside of it who are followers of the YouTube page.
00:55:21
Speaker
And literally every person in the town doesn't remember this happening. This was not some kind of plague that, you know, occupied their minds in a meaningful way. They didn't even know what was happening. So I think that it's it's it's ah an interesting choice to go down that road. But then I also, again, I feel like there's money being left on the table by having the people who live in this town be so detached from the central threat.
00:55:43
Speaker
ah They have no personal connection to being freed. ah You already talked about... Because if they don't remember it happening, then there should be the threat of it can happen again because they don't have the knowledge necessary to prevent a reoccurrence. So if if you were blind to the threat the first place...
00:56:00
Speaker
Why should you just be magically let off the hook and have it resolved? It's like, oh, I didn't even know that was a thing. I feel like think this is an area where it could have gone the weapons route, where it could have been like, this is a thing that happened and people just don't talk about it.
00:56:15
Speaker
That people are just, they don't know to question it. They don't know how to answer it. You know, they they just kind of leave it be as this crazy thing that happened this one time. or or there's some lingering after effects or scars from the thing. Like, cause like how they mentioned like the children and weapons, like, Oh, one of them talked for the first time, like months later or something. So like have something like that where there's like permanently some psychic damage to the people who are affected by this or even physical scars, you know, like the, the pregnant girlfriend, her hand opens up at one point. What if her hand's still fucked up when, you know, everything's said and done. Like she just has some kind of permanent, uh, like disfigurement or something like you like leave leave something ah because otherwise they just have the bag of tricks that they're like I don't know what to make of this you put the soda over people and then they pass out and ironically the bag of tricks that they're left with is empty and does nothing when they have it right and and that's ultimately what this movie feels like by the end of it you you presented me so many different things that it could have done and you went down this path that
00:57:18
Speaker
you know, it didn't even answer the most pressing questions, the things that emotionally mattered the most. um that's That's ultimately the thing that needs to work the most in any horror movie. I don't care how sound your plot is from a, you know, a cinemason's perspective. The thing that matters the most is can I chart these people's ah emotional changes and how these horrors reflect that and how they're able to conquer them.
00:57:44
Speaker
ah Instead, we get like the inklings of that, um which, it you know, is serviceable. And then everything else is just kind of, eh. You know, so like that's not the demeanor film. Again, it's it's why I want to see more from these filmmakers. It's just that it it just doesn't know what it has. Yeah, exactly. So wait, I feel like they did explain it, but who leaves the initial tape?
00:58:11
Speaker
The one where it has the like, oh, so they pastor and his veteran. Yeah. Yeah, so they end that it's they announced that like he didn't find it in the house. He just found it the bedside table of his parents.
00:58:23
Speaker
So after that, it's like all linked back to the parents. And again, like money on the table. We should have been focusing more on how the... How complicit were they? Did they know? like like Because then it's like either they were complicit to some degree because they were working, you know, they were making videos for the Reverend. That doesn't necessarily mean they were in on on the plot. But then then that's also the culpability of like, oh, this horrible thing happened to Your children right under your eyes and like you let it have like there should be some kind of reckoning for that. Like even if the parents are gone, you can still have some kind of dramatic fallout from like, oh, our parents the kind of dropped the ball here or something. And to build off of that, too, um like we introduced this idea that there is this like kind of B plot that was happening in the past where they were recording everything, too. And we get a couple of sequences where we see them like kind of impacted by the mysterious illness and are kind of confused by that. And obviously, we're watching this stuff ah with the pastor and it's inferred that they were the ones who recorded it.
00:59:25
Speaker
The problem is, is that like when you present something like everything is being recorded even back then and we don't even get like more than just a couple of lines to kind of show what happened to the parents, despite them being the main thing that is an obstacle for the siblings to connect over in the present.
00:59:42
Speaker
money on the table. Like, like all the pieces were there, uh, but they just didn't, uh, make the right connections. And it's not because they didn't have the resources to do it.
00:59:52
Speaker
They did. It's just, you know, they, they didn't mind the thing that was the most interesting. and but Or in universe, the, the, the, the sister didn't want to explore the parents' culpability because that'd be too painful. and that's why the movie doesn't do it.
01:00:08
Speaker
the the movie The movie doesn't do it because the characters couldn't handle it. It's built in. If the characters couldn't handle it, then I wouldn't have unqueted the sequence when they were both lying in bed.
01:00:20
Speaker
And you got them like coming up like Nosferatu to eat some meals, then come get it back down, you know? Yeah. when When you put something like that in there, it's like, I want to see more of that.
01:00:31
Speaker
Like, that's that's what the movie's about. that's That's why they're doing the things that they're doing. But when you're not following through on something like that, what am I supposed to do? you but Yeah. Yeah, it's it's frustrating because like you said, the pieces are there. But ultimately...
01:00:46
Speaker
I still give them credit for putting the pieces there on the table because like like not to keep harping on Shelby Oaks. Shelby Oaks gives you a a table and puts one thing on there and then it kind of breaks it with a hammer and then shits on it. And and you're like, okay, so...
01:01:05
Speaker
There's shit on the table now, but I who this thou would i don't know what to make of that. to To put a fire point on that, I feel like Shelby Oaks is like that table and then somebody comes in and they put down ah ah like a CD player.
01:01:21
Speaker
And they put in a CD and the CD is playing just like Halloween, like classic sound effects that you put on during like a high F. Yeah, then Chris Stuckman comes in and he sits down beside you. And as the sounds are playing, like a sound comes on like, yeah and he goes, oh, I remember that sound. That sound really made me scared when was a child. And he's talking to you and he he keeps going. And then the next sound comes and then he he interrupts himself. he goes oh Oh, wait. And and that's sound and it just keeps going like that for like an hour and a half.
01:01:50
Speaker
And then and then he tells you, he's like, hey, guess what? Like this, key this CD, if you flip it over, it's actually also the DVD for Nightmare. Sorry, Night the Living Dead. So we can go watch that after this. And then he does the same thing while you're watching guy Living Dead.
01:02:04
Speaker
but That's what Shelby Oaks is like. yes That's exactly what it's like. So in conclusion, fuck Shelby Oaks. I like that we've we spent multiple episodes just dunking on them. You deserve to. That movie was even so many babies. Like to go back to that conversation. Participation trophy for movies. It's like, it was no. Not going to happen, mister. You know, like I'm going to give that kind of credence to like fucking Kiss the Spider-Wolf, not you. who
01:02:34
Speaker
Get off my lawn. Yeah. Exactly. um But yeah, ah ultimately interesting movie. It's a good start because I believe they made some shorts beforehand, but this is their first feature. So, I mean, i it didn't, ah it's not like it won any major festival awards or anything, but it had like like a, you know, modicum of of some buzz. So hopefully they can parlay that into, into some future project because I, Like, like we keep saying that there's the potentials there and I would like to see more from these guys, especially ah bring, bring back John Golsan, get, get that priest again. He should be, he should be in all their movies. He should be like, like, yeah, the they're John Goodman to the Coen brothers. hey, if they're making movies for 10K, the appropriate comparison would be to Boturn Media, Matt Farley and Charlie Roxborough. This pastor character should be like their Kevin McGee, you know, just give him the coolest, most important role every time. And and that's good. that's That's what you should do with him because he has the chops to do it, as we both outlined. And to kind of go back to what you're saying about the filmmakers, like,
01:03:46
Speaker
but we're doing this episode, you know, who who knows how many people are going to listen to it, period. But then, like, this movie is small enough to where, like, there's a chance that they're going to listen to this, right? And what I will say to those people who made this movie, if they are, is you went out there, you did the damn thing on a crazy, like, scale, and you made it seem much bigger than it actually was. And I think that that is something that should be, like, cherished. That is something that is worth Yeah, tip tip of the hat to that. And like as an aspiring low-budget filmmaker and myself, like that that that is inspiring. So it'd be like, wow, it just 10K that you were able to to pull off something on on the scale and and with ideas to spare. Because it's like, it's it's like you got it felt like you guys had more movie in you.
01:04:38
Speaker
that they Like you kind of just stopped. Like there is a conclusion, but you're like, oh, we can keep going, baby. Yeah. so One piece of advice that if they are listening and and they decide to take anything from what you said, you have all those ideas.
01:04:52
Speaker
ah You now know that your ideas are good, right? Just learn how to cut some of them. Learn how to like take a few of them out when you get to that like final point in the scripting phase where you're like, okay, I think this is ready. When you think it's ready, take a couple of pieces out and see if like the most important parts are either improved or not, right? Just ask yourself that question. And as soon as you do that, you will be off to the race. Because like like you alluded to before, the stranger feels like that he was left over from another story.
01:05:22
Speaker
Just leave him on the table for that other project and you can get to that later. And you can give some of his plot points to the characters that we were already, you know, that you've grounded this world in and invested in So like, I don't know that you even need him in it because like like he is kind of just brings the MacGuffin bag of tricks. But You can achieve, even if you want to keep all the worm stuff, you can have the discovery of that and even the resolution of the priest being defeated through other means. It doesn't have to just come from this one magic guy. They created the problem themselves. And it's not like a ruinous problem. We're not sitting here going like, I hated my time watching this movie.
01:06:07
Speaker
ah It was just a problem that was built out of overenthusiasm. And hey, there are worse things to be upset about, you know? Fucking so many people bent over backwards to praise Megalopolis for that exact reason, right? But something like this preserves that praise more because it was made more earnestly and because somebody actually wanted to like...
01:06:29
Speaker
try something and say something. and And while I don't think that what it says or tries is ultimately 100% successful, the passion to make it work is there. You guys are better than Mechalopoulos. You're better than Francis Ford Coppola. That's what we're saying. That's the these guys got juice pull quote. You can quote better than Francis Ford Coppola.
01:06:52
Speaker
Put it on the back of the DVD player, DVD copy, just so we know it's true. You know, just so we know that. Or hopefully the VHS, like if there is a physical media release for this, this is the movie to do like a gimmicky like tape release. You're absolutely right. Yeah. The VHS would be so much cooler. Like our street cred goes up like 50% more if we're on a VHS rather than if we're on a DVD in 2025. You know what I'm saying?
01:07:19
Speaker
Yeah. Also, ah before we ah wrap wrap things up ah ah for for this segment, I just want to shout out, ah if I remember correctly, I was scrolling through the beginning logos. Is this a Magnet movie? This was a Magnet release. And so thought it was a Magnet release. I like almost got up and applauded.
01:07:40
Speaker
and Because it's been a while since we've we've we've talked about that on another review of like other Magnet classics from just kind of like... The 2000s, like mid 2000s to like kind of early 2010s, they were on a bit of a run. And I don't know that they ever fully stopped. I just stopped like seeing their logo as much in front of stuff. You know, it's like it wasn't like I was seeing like, you know, time crimes or John dies at the end stuff as is often as as I was. But then seeing this again, it was like the embrace of a good friend. like, oh, you're back, Magnet.
01:08:12
Speaker
You got me. Miss you so much. This is the way I got when I fought them i back. and And the thing is, is that, ah you know, we've we've made fun of people who have like are happy about age twenty four you know, and and I feel like that this is a much more ethically like, you know, we could be fans of this production company in the sense that.
01:08:35
Speaker
The people who make things for them, they're very small time. Like the the people who were making the best things ah in their heyday were like Bobcat Goldweight, like when he was trying his best, ah the start of Adam Wingard and Simon Barrett.
01:08:49
Speaker
And, you know, like, like, it's Nacho Vigilando, right? Yeah. But all of those filmmakers are interesting. All of those filmmakers did something cool with the medium. and And like you said, I'm not watching all of the Magnet stuff right now. But if if this is an indication of that, I like the fact that they're giving something that's such such a low budget the chance to be its own thing. And I like the fact that there is this spirit to still experiment.
01:09:14
Speaker
The fact that it's not gone. The fact that like it didn't go 2015 or something like that. Yeah, i'm I kind of thought maybe they did or got absorbed by someone else because I just got ahead and they weren't really on the radar. But ah if if they're still out there and championing weird, interesting, ah you know, independent voices like this, that that's that's to be applauded. Like you said, like... Yeah, it's going be weird to stand a production company, but until until it comes, is released that Magnet used AI in some promotion or something, then I, since everyone's getting exposed for that now, it's fucking crazy that was like a day after the Game of Awards. It was like, oh yeah, Game of the Year.
01:09:56
Speaker
They had AI. Also, that company company made the Ballers Gate. They they fucking are using AI in their new thing. and And the damage control from that is even funnier because like there's like someone officially from Larry and Gabe, Larry and Studios, who was like, holy fuck, guys. Like that was the start of their damage control tweet of like...
01:10:17
Speaker
It was not that bad, the use of AI. It's like, if you have to say it's not that bad at the beginning of something, you've already lost the thread. You did something wrong.
01:10:28
Speaker
um So so ah i'm i' I'm on their website right now. I'm on the the Magnet releasing website. And I'm just going to start listing movies, right? And their filmmakers. I think that that would yeah be important, right? ah Because, like, I feel like this kind of paints a picture for, like, how important they were as a film studio, right? ah Because you've got, like, movies like Beyond the Black Rainbow, like this the front.
01:10:51
Speaker
Oh, yeah. about Kazmada's film. You've got ah movies by Takashi. Sorry, hold on. I want to make sure I got this right. Yes, Beat Kitano. Takashi Kitano released many films under her Magnet. um Bronson, ah the fucking Nicholas Wanting reference. I forgot that was the Magnet. Damn.
01:11:13
Speaker
ah Borderline, the more the recent like ah Jack Nicholson's Son movie. um We were asking about like what movies recently they've been putting out. I feel like that's probably like their most like commercial.
01:11:24
Speaker
um Let's see, what else? the the Goon, the the hockey movie. you ever see Goon? oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. That Goon is amazing. The the host, the fucking Bong Joon-ho film, I saw The Devil, one of the best revenge thrillers. that Oh, my God. Yeah. They were on fire. The Endkeeper. Let the Right One In. The original Let the Right One In. They had a hand in.
01:11:49
Speaker
um Fucking... They are... are go go to the set Go to the page on their thing for new releases. Like some of these posters look look pretty Like you mentioned Borderline with with with Ray Nicholson, but like some of their other stuff. midnight Sister Midnight, I've heard, is like one of the best movies of the year. I haven't watched that one, but it's like i one of my ah two watch movies. I haven't seen it. It's another one that I've heard is really good.
01:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, but have you heard of, I haven't heard of Lake George. Like, it's just Shea Wiggum and Carrie Coon holding a gun on the cover. And and then below the title, Lake George, it's Carrie Coon Shea Wiggum, like, ah carrying ah a... bond Yeah, I was like, okay, well, that looks like movie of the year.
01:12:32
Speaker
So I didn't see that. I need to know everything that's... It looks like they're in California. So you can tell that like they just did this on like their off day. They're just like, yeah AKA, we're doing fucking like George.
01:12:43
Speaker
And they pay for Tracy Letts Blu-rays for the year. like like that's That's why we can respect a magnet, right? like With an a twenty four it's trying to pretend to be something. It's trying to pretend like...
01:12:55
Speaker
we're we're we're not We're starting a conversation. This is important. Magnus, just like, fuck you. We've got the movie with Jack Nicholson's son in it, right? that that That no one really cares about anymore.
01:13:07
Speaker
ah Like, so to be able to take those kinds of risks, that's more daring to me. Because when when a movie hits, when when you get a movie that's like just even going through their most recent ones, A Sister Midnight, right? A Sister Midnight, from the things that I've heard, like that's something that's like vital, that's that's doing something interesting with the form that's like challenging.
01:13:29
Speaker
The fact that you can get that still from like this genre releasing banner, that is way past its prime. It's pretty phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. i'm i'm I'm just, I'm, I'm excited that they're, I mean, I don't know that they i really went away, but that they're back. Cause I'm, I'm like ah all these movies are on my to watch list now. Even there's like a period piece with Guy Tears. Oh, is it Convert?
Maori Cultural Representation in Film
01:13:55
Speaker
Yeah. harry Is he, is he up against like someone who's, who's Maori? that Yeah, like it's an it's an old Maori like cast and he's like a preacher who arrives at this, like it's British occupied Maori territory or something. So there's going to be some some cultural strife or some shit. Sounds fucking good. Again, interesting. How many fucking movies are you watching about the Maori, right? Like that something that you see every day, right? The fact that there is a space where that can happen starring fucking Guy Pearce, you know, fucking pro pal. Yeah. Which speaks to his coolness that he is still willing. Yes, he'll also, in the same year that he did the fucking Cronenberg movie and he was in The Brutalist last year, he's like, yeah, I'll still do the fucking small movies. like
01:14:42
Speaker
ah he
Influence of Magnet Releasing on Independent Cinema
01:14:44
Speaker
He's down. That's why he's a GOAT. That's why Magnet releasing is a GOAT. That's why all of this is cool. like I'm glad that we dug into this because this is... ah As you're alluding to, this is ah a production company that meant a lot to me when I was getting into film.
01:14:59
Speaker
Seriously, you know, like a movie studio that puts out something like The Raid. You know, I want to see what they're doing. Right. And the fact that they are still delivering things that are under the radar enough to where like, you know, your score says these aren't calling them out, but they have reverberations like 15 years out. I mean, I still recommend Time Crimes as like, that's like a go-to recommendation for kind of anything. If someone's like, oh, what's a good sci-fi movie? Or someone's like, I'm looking for a good kind of like international movie to watch. I'm like, oh, Time Crimes. Or just anything. Like, I want a good thriller. Time Crimes. Watch Time Crimes. What are you doing?
01:15:32
Speaker
ah Fucking, guess what else ne but are they put out? They put out fucking Kiyoshi Kurosawa's Pulse. like They brought Pulse? They brought fucking Pulse to us. ah Like, why are we not, like, talking about magnet releasing every day of the
Exploring Quentin Dupuy's Unique Style
01:15:46
Speaker
week?
01:15:46
Speaker
Am I amazing? Like, the way they do this shit. They can do no wrong. Smoking causes coughing? did you ever see that one? No, that's a good title, though. that That is like one of my favorite movies of that year. Fucking, ah what's his name? Quentin Dupuy. Oh,
01:16:03
Speaker
um that's his oh you run oh Mr. Oizo. I haven't watched any of his because like he went back to doing because like he was doing for a while like ah movies with English cast and then he would or with like a mix, there would still be some French actors in there. And then he went back to just doing all like French movies.
01:16:22
Speaker
stuff and I haven't kept up with those those French movies but i want to go back and and watch those ah but this looks crazy a group of vigilantes called the tobacco force holy you are this is his best movie but also like just on him specifically I'm a huge fan of his work I think that Rubber is probably his worst movie um and I feel as though he only gets better with the thing which is which is saying a lot because I love Rubber oh great Yeah. ah He did a movie called Yannick last year.
01:16:53
Speaker
That's only at about an hour long. And it was also one of my favorite movies of last year. He is just an an expert, surrealist, ah absurdist filmmaker. Did you ever see Wrong Cops? Wrong Cops is amazing.
01:17:08
Speaker
ah but So funny. any Better. Yeah. Wrong. Wrong's awesome. Uh, what's the other one? Oh, reality. Reality is probably the favorite one that I've seen, ah of of his. Have you seen that one? Reality was pretty decent. Um, I was like, so into it.
01:17:26
Speaker
Um, I really was a big fan of Smoking Cause Coughing, as I said, and also Yannick. But I also really loved Incredible But True, which is like a time-based one location thing. So going off of time crimes, I think you'd love it.
01:17:40
Speaker
um We also talked about Wrong, which I really loved. Yeah, I need to catch up with his stuff. I haven't seen um Mandibles, which some people who are huge fans of his work, they say that Mandibles is like his crowning achievement.
01:17:53
Speaker
and um A lot of people have gone to bat for deer skin also. Yes, I've heard that as well. I feel like Deerskin's probably going to be like more of like a traditional like American commentary.
01:18:05
Speaker
oh and then he's got a new movie called The Piano Accident. He's working. He's putting shit out. And he also scores his movies, but then he's also just making albums under Mr. Oizo. He's
01:18:20
Speaker
like just works nonstop. And like, if you, people are listening, haven't seen his movies or heard his stuff. Like if you just like, like good, like techno shit, like listen, look up Mr. Oizo. He's very close to band justice.
01:18:37
Speaker
If you're familiar with them, Yeah. Who put out that like great cross album. um If you're a big fan of that kind of music, I feel like that's the the Mr. Orizo is is for you.
01:18:48
Speaker
um And i think that his movies are far more interesting. I even liked his Dolly film. Did you ever see that? his Salvador Dali movie kind of like completes his filmography in a way because like everything that he's doing is very modern and of the time. But when you put it in context with a figure like, uh, Salvador Dali, um, you realize that what he's doing is, uh, a larger, not realized, but like it reminds you that what he's doing is a part of a larger tradition ah that goes beyond your traditional idea of surrealism today. Because if you ask great Joe Schmoen Street, they're like they Lynch, you know, they're going to be like, you know, whatever.
01:19:27
Speaker
But Selenor Dolly's surrealism versus David Lynch's surrealism are two different ball camps. And the fact that we get something like that from a modern filmmaker and magnet releasing is the place that he's able to make movies who knows comfortably.
01:19:41
Speaker
is really nice. Yeah. Shout Magnet. Shout out Quentin DePoe. I'm going to catch up on Zoey. Maybe we should might need to do an episode or two on on some of these DePoe movies because I mean, smoking because coughing looks amazing, but but all the other ones that I need to catch up on are fucking, are probably bangers too.
01:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, he's a... Coughing is like the best MCU commentary you can ever imagine. it is it It is way better than even just what I just said. like you Like, you have no idea. oh It's on Hulu.
01:20:16
Speaker
I'm surprised that it's not on like a more boutique thing because other movies I was looking up, it's like, it's on Mubi. It's like, oh, Smokehouse Coffee is on Hulu? It's on a thing owned by Disney? That's crazy. Oh, yeah. they they they couldn't um They couldn't leave money on the table when they found out that Louis C.K.' 's French girlfriend is a star of the film. Is that true? Spoking Cousins Coffee? That is true well so it's true. And she also has one of the funnier segments, I must say. I can't suppose. I also have to reveal right now, this movie is an anthology movie. Okay.
01:20:46
Speaker
That's cool. I like anthology movies. I know. I know. i had to throw it out there because I knew that would be a book. ah But ah also, I wanted to shout out the second act, which I only briefly alluded to. Do you know anything about
AI-Directed Film 'Second Act' Discussion
01:21:01
Speaker
that movie? No. So that's the movie where he actually managed to get Lea Seydoux to come on board. And ah it's a, like, largely improvisational story pulled over large wonders.
01:21:14
Speaker
And the concept of the film is, ah what if a movie was directed by an ai And we're watching oh scenes in between. And then the scenes in between, like...
01:21:25
Speaker
show us a bit of what is about to happen or what what the scenes are about. um To compare it to a movie like Dracula made by Radu Jude, I think that it would be a great example of being like, here how do we make a movie commenting upon the use of AI without ever using a single frame of AI? Which 100% possible. Like, I'm sure that there's some interesting, like, commentary in Dracula, but it makes me so uninterested in seeing it where it's like, you can you can make this commentary without using the fucking thing. You can just make some... Yep. Have an artist make a thing that looks like AI. Like, if you're like, that aesthetic is actually important to this, like, what I'm trying to do, then you can just replicate it. Like, man, you're...
01:22:08
Speaker
it Filmmaking, right? The idea of filmmaking itself, right? When you watch a movie, right? And let's say you have a sequence where somebody is getting tortured, right?
01:22:19
Speaker
What is the most effective way to show that, right? You need to really torture them. Sorry? You need to really torture them. That's what you have do. Yes, that's that's that's the what I was getting to, exactly. Now, to to go a different route, what I was going to say was that um when you have a sequence like that, you actually shy away from the actual torture so much. Like, you will do, like, a bit of it, and then you cut away.
01:22:44
Speaker
Or you, like, like you you don't dwell on it too much because the idea... of it is worse than the depiction of it and how a performer could express that. So when you're trying to comment upon AI, which I would like him to torture, i don't think that you need to indulge in it for as long as you do to, you know, make that point. I think that you can make that point without going down that way. You can give the idea of it. You can, things like that rather than just going whole hog. And then at that point, you just end up ah adopting rather than commenting it. Yeah. 100% agree. um So and I think this this is actually really good because I thought we were just going to talk about the movie, but then it ended up being about the Magnet and independent filmmaking, Quentin DePoe. We covered a lot of ground here. ah Are you down to take a break and then we could talk about ah ah Wake Up Dead
Controversial Casting in Christmas Carol Adaptation
01:23:41
Speaker
Guy? Hey!
01:23:42
Speaker
Get up, lazy sack of bones. That's what I'm calling the movie from now on. like it's It's like some Broadway musical from like the fifty s
01:24:12
Speaker
And we're back. We're back. back. And we're back. Just in time to cover this breaking news that i just saw while I was on the toilet. You're dead?
01:24:24
Speaker
oh God. Oh, no. We're not laughing at that. du This was not recorded that day. The that the the joke is that it's very delayed. divvy Sorry.
01:24:37
Speaker
I'm sorry. What did you see? I fucking took the wind out of my sail. No, but the rest of the cast has been announced for Texas Instrument West's Christmas Carol starring Johnny Depp. The rest of the rest of the cast ah is Rupert Grint. Did he just pause to say that you called him Texas Instrument?
01:24:58
Speaker
and I don't know what the T.I. is. it's so No, I just thought he was a good fan of the rapper T.I. but Which stands for Texas Instruments, I thought. i thought all goes back to the calculators. I assume they make other things. That's not about those numbers. Yeah, exactly. ah so of course, we have Johnny Depp and Scrooge. Oh, good casting. Humbug.
01:25:21
Speaker
And then Trammell Tillman from ah you know Severance and the highlight of the most recent mission possible. I mean, he's great in everything. Wish he was in a good movie. Not that. ah ah Ian McKellen, the guy who's going drop dead any second, like he should not be in this fucking bull. He should not have to be in a Johnny Depp movie.
01:25:44
Speaker
is What if that ends up being his last movie? Yeah, it's high west. That ends up being his last movie. I'm going really piss. ah my My problem, sorry, I saw this as well. Like, Daisy Ridley also got announced, right?
01:25:58
Speaker
We're going to get you in a good movie one day, girl. this swear. Come on, sometimes I think about dying. Just do, like, eight more of those and you'll get an Oscar nomination. I promise you. Look at Jessie Buckley.
01:26:09
Speaker
She's so, because she's so, she's so fucking charming. Like, yeah, she could totally do a Jessie Buckley if, I don't know, just get a new agent, I guess. I don't i don't know what the problem is. Like,
01:26:20
Speaker
when i When I hear names like Tillman and I hear names like Ridley, I think to myself, like, those are people who often are supported by more progressive fan bases, right?
01:26:32
Speaker
And I think that it's interesting that they would be put in a film like this, where Ty West, like, I feel like the public perception, there are people hate on him, but, like, it's give or take. Some people love him, some people, you know.
01:26:44
Speaker
Johnny Depp, like, ah that's kind of inexcusable. like Like, when you put someone like that on the top of your poster, like, he's a tainted brand and what he represents beyond an actor, like, just but what he did as a person, you shouldn't touch that. Yeah, I don't know if it's part of, i mean, yes, there is the brain rot where there's people who are like,
01:27:05
Speaker
Well, the case was found in his favor, so I accuse he never did anything wrong. Like, people's morality begins and ends at, like, you know, legal ah proceedings, so they' they're not able to, like, make moral judgments of their own outside of that. ah ah But then also, just within the industry, like, if you grew up, appreciate, like, when Johnny Depp actually was an exciting actor, like, like during that 90s run or something, And then you're a filmmaker yourself now. Is that is that the part of Ty West who's like, oh I can work with him now because hes no one else wants to work with him. So he's really available. Well, also like something that we're kind of dancing around here is like the court case with Amber Heard. Right. And she got the short end of the sick often because people overanalyzed her behavior.
01:27:55
Speaker
It's classic misogyny how people treated that court case procedure because think about it this way. How many people were memifying Johnny Depp reactions, right?
01:28:05
Speaker
Johnny Depp was sitting in that ah stand, flurring his way through it, saying things like, non-clearly, right? You could have very easily made that into a meme.
01:28:17
Speaker
But the meme that caught on was I got stung by a bee it with like a ah crying inclination to it from Amber Heard. And something like that only goes popular when there's a directionally focused, ah you know, harassment campaign. Well, yeah, wasn't it exposed that there was like a lot of the anti-Amber Heard like social media stuff was being pushed by Daily Wire? Like they they were actively putting money into that? Like,
01:28:42
Speaker
Look, anybody who you could imagine as a reactionary shill was watching that shit as was happening. And they were making the same commentary as everybody else, which was that Amber Heard is not trustworthy.
01:28:55
Speaker
and We can finally invalidate me too. We now have the ammunition to like wind back the clock. If we're going to bring this into the Rebel video games, they treated her like at an Anita Sarkeesian, where they got mad at somebody who said something we were surried with, um pinned the entire movement on their words rather than the teachings of that movement. And regardless of whether or not that person is normal or cringe or, you know, untrustworthy, they Doesn't matter, right?
01:29:25
Speaker
When a group of people decided that that's the face of thing they dislike and they hammer it home as hard with no appropriate, you know, pushback against it, it's an issue.
01:29:35
Speaker
and and And when, I mean, pushback, this Tai West film is an example of that, right? ah Amber Heard didn't get, you know, many great opportunities post-Defense. I mean, she's basically been cut out of any, like, I have i never saw Aquaman 2 because I heard it was, it would probably just make me sad as a James Wan fan, but ah that she was largely the just, like, cut out of the movie. And then she got, like, in another legal dispute with that fucking Justin Baldoni guy, right? but Yeah. Yeah.
01:30:06
Speaker
and And like that guy was just kind of piggybacking off of the Johnny Depp stuff too, because he knew that she already looked bad and he saw good way to make a couple extra bucks. So like Blake Lively is like, I wouldn't say that she is like, you know, in quotations, the perfect victim, you know, but nobody should be in order to be a victim, right?
01:30:26
Speaker
Right. She, she was a victim. And the fact that people choose to ignore that because they miss ah Captain Jack Sparrow is frankly disappointing. Yeah, Emmer Heard has literally nothing like under IMDb when you look at upcoming. There's there's nothing. Like, is is and is nowhere is Depth's career is mostly just because, like, regardless of the outcome of that trial, like, he he's a tainted brand because he's unpleasant to work with, you know, like, he's like a non-functioning alcoholic and that's not, ah doesn't help you get cast. But... they He is still working to some degree. Like it's mostly movies that don't exist or like foreign productions or stuff like that. But and then now it's High West movie. But like Amber Heard has nothing. And like, like, would I say that we're missing much by not having Amber Heard? She's not my favorite actress, but that's fucked up. Yeah. Yeah.
01:31:19
Speaker
Exactly. Right. Like, I wouldn't say that, like, she's given as many like, like Jack Sparrows as he has, but she also has been given a really bad opportunities. The fact that she's been in two major public events.
01:31:36
Speaker
court battles with people should itself speak to what has happened with her career, where people have tried to bring hurt their personal life into this thing rather than some kind of artistic statement.
01:31:52
Speaker
It's great that she's got a rock like Ryan Reynolds to lean on ah because... it's not Blake Lively. What am I saying? Blake Lively has... ah ah ah right back I messed it up.
01:32:03
Speaker
i know I don't know why mixed those at two up. Hey, I need to look at their pictures. Is that one? I mean, they are both blonde. So, but I also, the case, this the cases were similar. I mean, the fact that it is true that the Blake Lively thing piggybacked off the depth, like the verdicts, because it it was just seen as just like, it was like, oh, well, now that we know all women are lying bitches, I have an opportunity to like, here's, here's my chance.
01:32:31
Speaker
But you don't fuck with the Rob Mack money. No, you don't. This will be the shakiest transition yet. Speaking of of believing women, ah that that that's a ah ah ah big theme in the next movie we're going to be talking about.
Rian Johnson's Religious Themes and Evolution
01:32:48
Speaker
like Wake Up Dead Man, ah who Knives Out Mystery. Last piece, Wake Up Dead Man.
01:32:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it kind of I didn't even expect, i mean, I expected like, yeah okay, there's going to be some like religious commentary, obviously. And I've already seen a lot of debate on like how accurate is the depiction of Catholicism. Like I grew up Catholic, went a Catholic school and, you know, Catholic mass. ah Yeah, I don't...
01:33:13
Speaker
Josh Brolin's character is over the top and probably way more evangelical coded. But I assure you there almost certainly is a guy like that. Like, like, like but that's, that's not, uh, that, that kind of guy exists for sure. so do you know who Rian Johnson's wife is? No. He is married to Karina Longsworth, the host of the long-running film podcast, ah You Must Remember This, which is one of my all-time favorite podcasts. Her voice, you know, but you must remember this. She's she's of that era where enunciation was really important in my life.
01:33:53
Speaker
um And what i love about her work as ah her own the voice is that she was always interested, as she is always, she like the show's still going, is always interested in um how women in popular culture are maligned.
01:34:09
Speaker
And she often talks about like how the spotlight doesn't favor some people because of things that are outside of their controls. And one thing that I love about this movie is how ah this movie uses this ah depiction of a woman who is both real and fictionalized to essentially be the arbiter of the pain and suffering of all of these people who are going to this church.
01:34:34
Speaker
ah Whether Josh Brolin recognizes it or not, ah she is he has made this woman into a different kind of Jesus Christ allegory. um and his church is more of a Satan's church ah in how it operates because it's more so about his own petty grievances and his own beliefs rather than the beliefs of the people who are around him or in ah Christianity itself.
01:34:59
Speaker
ah This film has a lot going on under the hood when it comes to theology, but if we're talking about the perspective of how this film is commented upon men who are, you know, ah and even women ah who pin... ah generational trauma on the victims in the past who just so happen to be women.
01:35:19
Speaker
I think that that stuff is majorly fascinating. And I think that this is like the most on fire Rian Johnson's been since like... I agree. Like this is up there with my... ah fate Like I hesitate to put any new movie at like the very top of my rankings for a thing because i like want to let things marinate and like...
01:35:40
Speaker
you know, rewatch a few times before I can be definitive. Cause like I have Looper as my, my favorite Rian Johnson movie. I think, I just think, uh, it, the creativity on display. I mean, one is fucking gorgeous movie, but like he did. So such a fully realized world in one of the last ways that I felt like we got sci-fi filmmaking at that level where it's like, wasn't one of the big franchises, but like someone like fully created, like, cause it's not just like the main gimmick of,
01:36:09
Speaker
the the time travel looping. It's like, no, he created a whole world in mythos around this. And then it was also one of the last great Bruce Willis performances because he's fucking on fire in that movie. um and So, so ah yeah. Think about the sequence when you've got Jeff Daniels and he's like cutting off the parts of Paul Danos, right? Yeah.
01:36:29
Speaker
that That is the kind of filmmaker that Rian Johnson promised to be in my eyes. When I watch a sequence like that, I'm like, this is the filmmaker I want. And then when he made movies like, ah you know, The Last Jedi and The Glass Onion, these are movies that like politically I am 100% in with and even admire a lot of what they do. But then my issues with those films largely stem from you know, you're focusing too much on the message rather than the craft.
01:36:59
Speaker
You're actually an an expert craftsman who has great a great worldview to boot. And rather than leaning on your craft, you're actually leaning on what you have to say. And what I love about Wake Up Dead Man is that he's finally come back to the space where he's able to melt those two parts of his brain in a way that actually melts quite well. and and And maybe this is a great way for us to kind of transition into the Knives Out franchise, because I feel like that was like a ah really clear delineation point ah for him as a filmmaker. And I feel like the start of the Knives Out franchise versus what it is now are completely different. Well, yeah, the first Knives Out was a theatrical released movie designed. never It was not designed as a franchise. It was just ah he made a murder mystery starring Daniel Craig.
01:37:47
Speaker
Daniel Craig, who ah it at the point was he was still playing Bond. ah Like he hadn't done the last last one yet, but he also was in the ah phase where it's like,
01:38:00
Speaker
Does he just like playing Southern guys because he had just been in Logan Lucky where he also but is... is the I don't think he's quite Cajun in Logan Lucky. Like, it's more... Because he more has a foghorn leghorn cadence as a Benoit Blanc. But ah in...
01:38:19
Speaker
in It's a little more redneck-y in ah in Logan Lucky, ah but it's the they're both great performances. ah but ah So Knives Out came that and... and that's era ah end Yeah, it it just... It was very successful. And then ah the only reason that this became a Netflix thing is it's COVID. I mean, COVID fucking fucked a lot of stuff up ah for the industry. And if I was Rian Johnson, i i get I get taking that deal. You know, like getting the money to make... I think it was just for the two sequels. like Because I don't think he's like obligated to do any more with them, which is good. um So... I get the impression Netflix wants to do more and he is kind of done.
01:39:09
Speaker
That's the impression i get. Because he already has relationships with other studios. Like, like I, regardless, regardless of what, uh, shape poker face takes, you know, like if they reboot that with, with Dinklage or whatever, which would be cool, I'd fucking watch that. ah that he seems like he has friends at universal. So like, there's no, there's, there's no rule that this has to be a Netflix franchise. It's just, they were willing to put up the money when, you know, the industry was in a very uncertain point. And I feel like he definitely, uh, a lot of Netflix, ah a lot of filmmakers who, you know, took the money from Netflix kind of get the fell for it award where they were like, oh, they they're not giving my movie ah a real theatrical release. It's like, well, yeah, that's what they do. So, oh my, like I, I get in specifically in Rian Johnson's case, I get it. I get taking like, it's, it's not, it's not like he went full, um, a David Fincher where he's like, I am the, the, the,
01:40:12
Speaker
I have the avatar of Netflix that I will enact. There will. The killer will not get a Blu-ray release. i I will ins ensure that it does not. it was just Because it's like, it would be easier if Evie just made Slop and then I wouldn't care to actually own any of it physically or see it. I'm like, I need a good movie. i want to own it.
01:40:32
Speaker
Well, was like one of your best movies. Like, come on. yeah like Like, what are you doing here? um But the the to go back to the arc that you had laid out there ah greatly, ah so eloquently, the putting COVID in in this context makes a lot of sense ah because, ah you know, what happened during COVID was a lot of people had like kind of a spiritual awakening in their politics, right?
01:40:56
Speaker
And Glass Onion felt a lot like that, whereas Knives Out was like kind of ahead of its time almost where it was making but that kind of commentary right at the same time as Parasite.
01:41:07
Speaker
Like if Parasite didn't come out right and it was just Knives Out, I think that people would have glommed on to it in a similar way because at least it resembled what people are going through in America. The reason that Parasite glommed on the way that it did was because despite it being a South Korean film,
01:41:22
Speaker
ah A, it it reflects a lot of American experiences, and B, it's directed by Bong Joon-ho, who himself is influenced so much by American cinema, so it's able to translate so well.
01:41:34
Speaker
There's a universality to a Parasite that I feel like that that it it plays anywhere. With Knives Out, it's so much more American and you've got things like Michael Shannon being like, I've got an incel son who won't stop masturbating on the toilet, you know, and and and like that's there's a ceiling to that.
01:41:56
Speaker
like They should bring back Michael Shannon as a different character. He should be able to reuse actors. and just Because he he does it with his one friend who's in all his movies. I think his name is no Noah Sagan, who's like in every single Rian Johnson thing, playing playing a different character. He's in all three Knives Out movies. like In the first one, he's like a cop ah who's with Lakeith, and second one.
01:42:21
Speaker
I feel like he plays someone who works on the island. I don't really remember his role in two. And then this one, he's like the bartender. So there should be like regulars who just keep popping back up. Like just give ah ah Michael Shannon like a ah fucking weird costume or mustache. And he can do like a voice or something, an accent. I think we're both in a great, and so, like, you know Michael Shannon's an amazing actor, and zelio the way he does, like, shit like that, you know, when he's, like, the way he fills in lines is, is as an actor, what he does, right? Like, when he's, like, his posture, the things he, like, throws in, his ad-libs, he is an actor who knows a so ah scenario. He can fill that in himself.
01:43:04
Speaker
Um... But and that's why he would be an asset in any of these Knives Out films. the The problem I found with Glass Onion, like ah I know that like we talked a bit about this on Twitter.
01:43:15
Speaker
I really hate that movie. I think that movie really sucks. I think I think that he really dropped the ball with it. And and mainly because it's so smug and self-assured in itself. And what I like about Wake Up Dead Man, to transition more into a ah conversation with that film, is that it feels as though it's ashamed of what Glass Onion was. It feels ashamed of what even Knives Out was. And it decides it needs to be something different. And Wake Up Dead Man is something entirely different. Yeah, I...
01:43:43
Speaker
I get where you're coming from with the smugness of Glassed Onion. And it just it just didn't ruin the film for me. and like If something's like funny enough and in you know not losing me in terms of the pain... Because it's like also the most obvious in terms of the mystery. And we'll get to it in this one. Not that this one's like mind-blowing revelations when you find out who done it. But that's not really the point of of these movies. like Because like you can figure it out. I'm not...
01:44:12
Speaker
I usually just go along for the ride with like movies like this because I think it's just more fun to surrender that way. Although I am like kind of trying to like piece together in in my mind of like, okay, how does this work fit together? Especially in and one like this.
Wake Up Dead Man: A New Take on Whodunit Lore
01:44:28
Speaker
ah the creature is Because the cool thing about ah Wake Up Dead Man is I feel like separate from the other ones is actively engaging with the lore of ah like whodunit mysteries. Like they're, they're like, they're like books from this genre are being read by characters in the story and being referenced. And like, there are actually like clues that can tell you about the crime that's been committed. It's like Benoit Blanc, his old arc is that he is able to recognize the pieces
01:45:03
Speaker
he knows more way more than he leads on and he just can't bring himself to solve the mystery because he understands that like interpersonal dynamics are more important ultimately and that the mystery itself was ultimately a distraction not just for him for the people who enacted this crazy plot but also for himself that's what I find this why I find this movie so interesting He has the most arc in this movie. Like, because, like, he is, in which is ironic because he is, like, like I've seen people say and as a drag, as, is like, ah a complaint of, like, he's not even the main character in this I'm like, that's good. That's, like, kind of, like, in the same way where it's good that Mad Max is not the main character of Fury Road, where it's like, no, he's wandering, wanders into someone else's narrative and...
01:45:58
Speaker
his arc is informed by this relationship with this person more so than the mystery. And and I feel like that's really, but I mean, he's good and in of the other movie movies. Like he's very funny and, you know, it's Daniel Craig.
01:46:13
Speaker
He's a fucking good actor, but it just, there's not much introspection into who Benoit Blanc is in those other movies. It's just, he's a genius detective. He's going to solve the thing and he's, he's, very's he's witty and gay.
01:46:27
Speaker
But there's there we're not going to like you get the most clues of like what made him tick. Just just the fact of like from his a his hardcore atheism and his aversion to religion itself like tells us something about him. The thing that I like about the way that you're describing him is that like he's still an empty vessel by the time that we get to know him. Right.
01:46:51
Speaker
Like he's like he's a guy who solves mysteries, but we don't really know who he is. With with a Pirot. Right. Like we know what he likes. You know, me I know how he got his mustache. I know everything about Pirot. And with Benoit Blanc, he's more of kind of like a Jiminy Cricket. He's more like somebody who sits on somebody's shoulder and guides them to the mis the to the answer, right? He's like, well, just just from an outsider's perspective, you know, and then he starts going off. And and but it's it's ah a thing where in this movie, he's challenged with Josh O'Connor to the degree where he he is not doing that as much. Like, he'll start to do it, and then he'll go like...
01:47:36
Speaker
Well, wait a second, you may have a point, mister. And then like, he'll, he'll start to like, you know, be more introspective with it. To the point to where we get to this finale, and the finale is all about like, letting people have integrity and telling things the way they are, because he understands that like, him solving this mystery would be probably more satisfying for us as an audience. But what matters more is what's more satisfying to these people, because they're the people who live this experience. And while they may be influenced by the same mystery novels that he read as well when he was starting, ah he recognizes that it comes from a place of expression. ah And I think that's a really fascinating way of approaching murder plot. You know, most murder plots are about how evil somebody is. How could you do something like this? But this movie was about like how, ah you know, the emotions that were less bubbled ah ultimately express themselves.
01:48:30
Speaker
And the ensemble takes a backseat for that. And that's okay because it matters more that it's about like how people in this space and time took away this ah singular ah being or the singular ah motivating factor.
01:48:45
Speaker
Well, by virtue, because yes, that that has been ah clocked, you know, for for this one, that the ensemble takes the backseat, but also by virtue of whodunit, you just need people around to like kind of just be like, could it be them? Could it be? the So like, ah that yeah, that that that that's this. Could they have done? i The only, the the main thing ah that I wish they could have done more with, I feel like,
01:49:12
Speaker
I don't know if it's casting or just the utilization of the character. i feel like the Andrew Scott author like ah didn't fully have a there wasn't like a full thought there with with that with that character.
01:49:27
Speaker
ah i got two two words for you. Paul Giamatti. OK, you can't you cast him problem solved. Right. Because like he's the kind of actor where you don't need to give him that much. And he fills in the rest of the space enough. Right. Andrew Scott is more of a leading man in my eyes. So when he shows up in a movie like this, ah he's playing less of a character than Chris Evans was. And I see Andrew Scott as far more of an engaging leading man than Chris Evans is.
01:49:58
Speaker
Yeah. So it's a really weird imbalance to have ah a performer like that in that role, despite him being as good as he is in this part. You know, I do think he is good. Yeah. Yeah. I i think he's i think he's good. And you even get some funny parts. But also that could have been a cool ah Thomas Hayden church reunion was with with Giamatti that that would have been good language.
01:50:20
Speaker
But been good. Okay. But Giamatti's still on the table for future ones. Maybe he can be like the main guy who people think did it in a blonde guest to like, you know, help out. A step further, he could replace fucking Natasha Lyonne. Like, I love Dinklage, right?
01:50:36
Speaker
But imagine a ah fucking detective show with Giamatti. Like, I mean, Billions is over, right? He doesn't have any TV obligations right now. Wouldn't that be amazing? yeah i I'm not saying this with any sense of, you know. I'm pulling the Emmys out right now. I have them right here for him. Look, I'm not saying it would be better than Columbo, but like, let's let the work speak for itself. That's what I'm saying.
01:51:01
Speaker
i think it would I think it might be better than Columbo. No, I don't know. It might be better than Columbo. I like Paul Giamatti more than like Peter Falk and Peter Fox in one of my favorite movies of all time. So it's like... Yeah, he's a fantastic actor, but also called giomadi ah Paul be good. Paul Giamatti is like one of our greatest living actors. Like, like i He's just one of our greatest living people. Sure. I believe that. that like I won't hold Sasquatch beliefs against him.
01:51:27
Speaker
um but but but He just has a curious mind. But getting back to to wake up Wake Up Dead dead Man, i think the i think the movie is overall well cast because even if they're not all given like equal amounts to do, they...
Critique of Acting Performances in Ensemble Films
01:51:45
Speaker
yeah because you're kind of casting overqualified people minus one. the shirt the yeah I would say if you put someone... Mila Kunis is not tasked with doing a ton.
01:51:59
Speaker
So it's kind of it It doesn't like... ruin the scene. I've seen people be like, oh, the scenes with her are fucking ruined. And like, no, it's not because also Jocelyn O'Connor and fucking Daniel Cricker in those scenes. So we're fine. But yeah if you if you had someone who can be ah just a better straight man than her, like, I feel like that would that that would be a ah smoother...
01:52:23
Speaker
Right. Here's the way I'll frame it. So like Joshua Connor is like a ah dog. Right. And ah Daniel Craig's like a cat. Right. Those are great pets. Right.
01:52:35
Speaker
And they have their own strengths and weaknesses. Mila Kunis is like a hamster. Right. Right. the Taking care of that kind of pet versus a cat or a dog versus like what you get out of that are far different.
01:52:48
Speaker
and and And with Emila Kunis, it's like she is delivering what that part needs. But ironically, she feels the most like Scooby-Dooby-Doo as the film invokes. She feels like a a live action Scooby-Doo movie.
01:53:02
Speaker
in house Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And ah with Benoit Blanc and Joshua Connor, they're almost like bordering on Brisson film. So it's like, what?
01:53:13
Speaker
Or Ingmar Berman, you know, that's the register they're playing in. And she's coming in with a Scooby-Doo. And and the ink-rong-oody there is really tough. um Going to the ensemble as well.
01:53:26
Speaker
um We can talk about some of the individual performers beyond Andrew Scott later, but I think that the two most important people that we need to highlight are Glenn Close and Josh Brolin.
01:53:37
Speaker
Absolutely. Josh Brolin having a hell of a year, by the way, with weapons. Weapons in this, yeah. Like weapons is probably like a better showcase. I'm sorry. No, the wake up dead man is probably the better showcase of him as a dramatic actor because he's given so many monologues and, and he's great in them.
01:53:54
Speaker
um and And, and, and anytime he's like telling Josh O'Connor about masturbating, I found that that was hilarious. um But well, especially when you realize in the scene and you even hear this in Joshua Connors narration, it's like that's a power move. Like everything this guy is doing is about domination. It's like it's not that he's a pervert and they to confess his masturbating habits. It's that he is purposely trying to make fuck with his head and make him uncomfortable. And to go off of that, like, the wake-up dead man, Josh Brolin, is so conniving, and he's so much about the self, and it's so much more about um a cult rather than, like, actual Christianity.
01:54:35
Speaker
I think the movie makes that very clear, um and... I'd say this is like a pro-faith movie in terms of like, in i love this yeah it the the Brolin's character is very capital E evil, but Josh O'Connor is, you know, the stand-in for like genuine faith. And like, he's never, even if Blanc disagrees with him theologically, he often defers to Josh O'Connor, to Father Judd. And also, it's,
01:55:06
Speaker
Judd is just seen as being in the right morally, you know, like, like, he's able to guide people to, like, and you know, we've alluded to Blanc's realization at the end, but then also that beautiful scene he has with Glenn Close.
01:55:20
Speaker
ah We should just say we're in full spoilers just because we're going to we're going to jump around. Like, it's it's on Netflix. You should watch it if you haven't seen it. But... Yeah, like at at that the very end when he's like telling her to have grace for Grace. And that's the kind of thing where it's like a lesser filmmaker. You'd be like, her name's Grace. Of course, it's so like on the nose. But I'm like, no, this is actually perfect. This is on the nose because you don't even need to have the line, have grace for grace.
01:55:51
Speaker
You can just have Josh O'Connor say grace. It's like a one word thing. And like, and how he delivers it is, is it it like and informing her to let go of that anger. ah And also like before the reveal of like what actually happened, ah He's done this in multiple movies playing with perspective ah of like ah multiple people's versions of the story. he even did it in The Last Jedi of like, you know, like, like, oh, what really happened with Luke and Kylo Ren? And you see both sides of the vert of of what they say happened and what really happened. And as soon as you're seeing like Grace rampaging through the church, I'm like, well, there's like red light behind her and she's like acting demonic. I'm like, OK, so there's there's another component here. that's You're like, this is not what actually happened. Well, so much of this movie is about the act of storytelling itself. And Josh O'Connor obviously makes this like text in how he speaks about theology being just storytelling. which
01:56:54
Speaker
ah Beautiful scene. Very accurate, yes. and And beautiful scene as well. And ah i the... the introduction of this character, uh, being like the root of all evil in this church being cast in red light. Like Josh O'Connor is obviously record, uh, like relaying to us as the audience, uh, Josh, uh, Josh Rowland's, uh,
01:57:18
Speaker
version of events, you know, like that's the truth of them, right? So then when it changes later, it matters more. um But there's another part that you said earlier that I want to drill into a bit more, which was ah how this movie gets theology right.
01:57:32
Speaker
And I truly believe that you could release this movie on Angel Studios. You could probably put this out ah from like a Christian production company. And it would be like really well received by the Christian community.
01:57:46
Speaker
um And I say this specifically in the scene that we get with the Bridget Everett character. Oh, my God. i i was not familiar with her. game Like, I just knew know her as like a comedy person. I've seen like clips and stuff. But i i and I know her hbo show is acclaimed because it's kind of in that. I hate to compare it every any show a comedian does where they're where they get serious to Louis. But, you know, in a post-Louis world that, you know, a lot of a lot of shows have have that ah vibe. So that that was the impression I got from her show and and I never watched it. But i'm I'm actually pretty inclined to watch. Just just just from what's mostly a vocal performance ah in in this movie, I i was... Very moved. i I was only familiar with her ah from this movie called Patty Cakes.
01:58:36
Speaker
and the And the S at the end is a dollar sign. ah and and And that movie is about how like this like ah larger slash fat slash chubby um white woman in a poor community decides that she wants to be a rapper.
01:58:53
Speaker
And ah Bridget Everett plays her mother. Wait, what's the name of it again? Patty cakes and, and, and Patty cakes is a pretty decent movie. Uh, I, I wouldn't say it's perfect. It's like, I would say it's like almost like Sundance, uh, fodder, like people who glommed onto it. Like they were like, maybe this has awards potential and it never really did.
01:59:14
Speaker
Um, I watched it because I thought that the, uh, concept was pretty interesting. And I felt that Bridget Everett was one of the best parts of the film because like, she's the disapproving mother. Who's kind of also a burden to the Patty geeks character.
01:59:27
Speaker
So she's given one of the media roles in the film. And in Wake Up Dead Man, ah you know, like her placement in the film is Joshua Conner needs to get information from her. She realized... You think it's just going to be a comedic customer service scene? Yeah. It evolves into like one of the most honest expressions of Faith put onto film in the past like 30 years. Yeah. Who... who I did not see that coming. Like I, I, and it makes me mad that I did not get to see this on a big screen with a crowd to just like collectively kind of have the air taken out of the room. Cause, cause you're, you're chuckling initially of like, oh, okay, we know how this is going to service lady is going to wasting this time. And then when she's like, father, can you pray for me? It's just like, yeah.
02:00:15
Speaker
um well I invoked him before, but this is a Bersan move. He's not doing a fucking Agatha Christie movie a move here. Right. And the fact that it makes that transition and it feels totally earned, not just within the context of this film, but within the larger franchise of Knives Out.
02:00:33
Speaker
ah Yeah, this is master filmmakership. This is like Rian Johnson is operating on the top of his level in his game. because Not only was he able to like transition out of a murder mystery into an entirely different kind of movie and have it feel earned, but then also he upends what the purpose of these mystery movies were to begin with.
02:00:54
Speaker
And he tried to do that on Glass Onion. Glass Onion was all about, like, the mystery doesn't matter. And that itself was the fun. The problem with Glass Onion was that, like, if you're a seasoned movie watcher, you can spot that from a mile away. And you're like, okay, then what are we doing here?
02:01:10
Speaker
And with Winkman, it's like, this still matters. every Like, we know that the mystery itself doesn't really matter, in quotations. What matters more is what it means to these people. What matters and is matter.
02:01:23
Speaker
As Jordan Peterson chimed in for a second. what What matters matters. No, I'm not crying enough. What is what? He should be in the next. it should be a phone call with Jordan Peterson and Jordan Peterson starts crying.
02:01:40
Speaker
I would. OK, I raise you a him being a part of the ensemble with him being Vanuant Blanc. Imagine Vanuant Blanc was played to Jordan Peterson. Imagine like he comes in and he's like, what was the killer trans? Just like just the worst. Like, wow, this franchise took a really like a right turn to not see it coming. Very hard right.
02:02:05
Speaker
An alt-right turn, if you will. At that point, I'd go back to Natasha Lyonne. If Rian Johnson went down and that right, I'd be like, hey, I'll take AI over this. I'll take my chances with the AI, i guess. Yeah. italy maybe i can Maybe I can teach the AI empathy or something. I don't know.
02:02:21
Speaker
so Jordan Peterson's, but AI can't write Pinocchio. Ooh, that would be Benoit Blanc versus a computer, the next one. That's, you know, if if if he he likes getting, possible he likes being topical, you know, what's more topical than than that? ah Well, if we're talking about topical too, right? Like, think about, like, the idea of religion itself in a modern context. Like, the most that people think about religion on a grand scale, because, like, most of the Western world is moving in the atheist direction.
02:02:53
Speaker
ah Most people relate it to, like, sex crimes, you know? Like, in... like inappropriate behavior within organized religion is the attention grabber. Like think about true crime even, right?
02:03:06
Speaker
And then, right, true crime, religious scandal are hand in hand, right? So it only makes sense that Rian Johnson would decide that it's integral to tell a murder mystery within a religious context.
02:03:21
Speaker
It's earned. These two things are interlinked within their space in popular culture and in, you know, consciousness in general, right? Like when you turn on Dateline or when you turn 2020, they're talking about, you know, the murder mystery or the religious scandal, right?
02:03:37
Speaker
So it's like... yeah The fact that you're able to meld these two things into one story and it goes beyond just like, you know, the the mystery itself, but rather the things that actually happen. That's where this movie starts. Yeah, because he's invoking those themes and interacting with it, but then also...
02:03:54
Speaker
this tightrope act of like, because by the end of it, Christianity is exonerated. You know, it's it's like it not only not, I mean, yes, the perpetrators of the crime had their own view of faith and were misguided in, in, in in what they did. But the, like it, the faith is then used to like bring them back to a state of great. It's like, it's like redeeming. It's, ah it's about the movie is about absolution, salvation, salvation, Let's think about our Dasha Necrasovas for a moment, right?
02:04:26
Speaker
Let's think about the people who like take ah upon a more religious ah demeanor ah to push an ideology ah that they ultimately don't believe in because they're just trying to serve of selfish means. I can go even further than this. Like an Andrew Tate would pretend to be like a Muslim, right?
02:04:43
Speaker
Because it would be more advantageous push the kinds of ideologies that he does based on people's bigoted opinions of Islam, right? um The list can go on for e for all kinds of religions, right?
02:04:57
Speaker
real Or also the people who pretend to be religious when they're trying to like kind of scapegoat. But like like when they're trying to rehab their image, like Shia LaBeouf is like, oh, I'm Catholic now.
02:05:08
Speaker
Yes. But let's put a finer point on all of this, right? When we all take issue with theology, when you or me or anybody has an issue with religion, it's not because of people having faith.
02:05:21
Speaker
I don't think that anybody would ever do that. You know, I feel like what if if If somebody chooses to believe in the Christian God, right? I view that the same as if somebody believes in ghosts, right?
02:05:32
Speaker
Where I don't personally believe in that. But it's also not hurting me. It's not hurting me. I may not think of your judgment as highly as I did before, but I also respect that like you have a clearly defined worldview in your mind where you're like, this is the boundaries of reality, right?
02:05:49
Speaker
And the alternative of that, right? the wake up dead mans and all of those ah reactionary people that i brought up response to this. ah They bend the will of religion to meet their selfish means.
02:06:01
Speaker
And as you said, this movie is pro-Christian because the idea of theology itself is not based, like the appropriate ah way of teaching it is not supposed to be based in inherent discrimination. It's supposed to be met in acceptance and, you know, overcoming one's own faults. Yeah.
02:06:21
Speaker
So the fact that this movie is so predisposed with eschewing the heretics, the people who use religious means as a way to ah gain a higher status fast, I think that that's a very important distinction and an interesting commentary upon religion that nobody is doing right now I can't think of anyone that's that's doing it like this. And it's also... it it it it speaks to his ah storytelling abilities and it his prowess as a filmmaker. like It's not subtle, but it works. A movie doesn't have... Because that you can level that against a lot of movies. like
02:06:59
Speaker
I think the criticisms or problems with a movie like... and i I don't think ah Don't Look Up is a flawed movie because it's not subtle. like I feel like the problems with that movie is that it does it it only has one point to hammer home and it takes like three hours to do it.
02:07:17
Speaker
look god that's That's the issue with with that movie. ah yeah you're You're on the money. Like, they live as an incredibly unsubtle movie, but it's also, like, one of Carpenter's best movies. You know, so it's like a movie can be aggressively unsubtle, but still poignant and, like, meaningful what it's trying to convey. The main difference between...
02:07:38
Speaker
I can't believe you made that connection between They Live and ah Don't Look Up. that that Because it's very appropriate, right? Is that like in Don't Look Up, ah everybody involved, like from the cast to the directors, everybody, right? They all think it's amazing. They all think it's brilliant work. This is important for me.
02:07:56
Speaker
Yes. And then on the flip side, right, it's just the material, right? It's just what we got to do, right? And in Wake Up Dead Man, I feel as though the construction of a murder mystery is that, right? It still needs to go through the motions of all of those things because that's ultimately what the story still is.
02:08:16
Speaker
but it knows that it can flex within the boundaries of that genre to go further. And I feel as though that that is more in line with something like the original Knives Out versus a Glass Onion, where Glass Onion, where Knives Out was so much about like taking the Agatha Christie things on and putting them on their head.
02:08:35
Speaker
And Glass Onion was so much about like saying... let's let's just destroy the table. ah Wake Up Dead Man is like, we're going to take what we did with Nines Out, but we're actually going to improve it and make it way better. And we're also going to comment upon Agatha Christie in a way that maybe Agatha Christie would have appreciated. it Yeah.
02:08:53
Speaker
I mean, I think she would appreciated this. I think, I want to know what Martin Scorsese thinks of this movie. That's that's the main get Catholic the voice that I want to hear from in terms of this. where Where's Marty at?
02:09:06
Speaker
Yes. why Why isn't he like after a Ty West movie, like, you know, a couple months after the fact, just being like, this is one of the best movies ever made. Like, I feel like he could be doing that with n ah with this Knives Out movie rather than Glass Onion. With Glass Onion, if he did that, I'd be like, what are you doing, Marty? Yeah.
02:09:24
Speaker
with this? I think he would start levitating during scenes like this, like the phone call scene or or the Father Judd talking about how your religion is storytelling. He would just be like, he starts floating in the air.
02:09:40
Speaker
Something that we haven't really dug into so much is ah with previous Knives Out entries, ah a lot of those films were Trojan horses where we knew that Benoit Blanc would be like the character that we came in with and that it would become somebody else's story, right?
02:09:56
Speaker
And then with ah this movie, it starts us with Josh O'Connor and Josh O'Connor is the rock here. And this is why i really appreciate this movie versus any of the other Knives Out films in the context of Rian Johnson's career is that this movie feels so much more like a Josh O'Connor vehicle with Benoit Bloch as a side character. Absolutely. Yeah.
02:10:18
Speaker
and And that's why it works so well is because Rian Johnson is not so beholden to being an Agatha Christie homage. He's able to be like, what is the thing that makes this character dramatically compelling?
02:10:31
Speaker
And that's why it feels more in line with a movie like Looper or Brick or even Brothers Bloom. There's identity here. there Yeah, it I can't even pinpoint the word I'm thinking of, of ah but like Joshua Connor fits so neatly into that kind of zone because like he has the problem, the kind of juice that he has now that.
02:10:54
Speaker
That's kind of what Joseph Gordon-Levitt felt like around the time of Looper. like That excitement of like, holy shit, is it this is the next... this is that I mean, he had been around for a while. you know like He'd been on sitcoms and acting since he was younger. But like in that moment of like his run of acting, you in what we were seeing from him, was like, oh damn, he's about to...
02:11:17
Speaker
like do some shit and then did not happen. But, uh, Josh O'Connor is in that position now and he's on a fucking run. Like, uh,
02:11:29
Speaker
ah ah because i I didn't know who he was until Challengers, which was just last... That's crazy to think that was last year, and then he's been in, like, three movies since then. And and he was in that other movie, La Camara, right? which Yeah. See that one?
02:11:42
Speaker
No, I need to see that still. And then the new Spielberg, the the Disclosure Day, like, which fucking looks awesome. Like, the... And Kelly Reichert's the mastermind this year as well. And he's going to be in the next Joel Cohen film. Bro is on fire right now.
02:12:01
Speaker
Jack of spades. He's going full Chalamet. He's only working with like the best of the best, the cream of the crop. um and it just so happens that the movies that he's in are like career highlights from these people, right? So like good for him, right?
02:12:16
Speaker
um The one thing I wanted to, I wanted to get back to Joseph Gordon-Levitt because that's a funny strain. Do you think that there were ever like long nights where like Rian Johnson was on the phone with Joseph Gordon-Levitt and he's just like,
02:12:30
Speaker
all right, Ryan, like, just think about it for a second. Like, I could be Tim, you know? Like, it's your Ruby, you know? you can You can do whatever you want, you know? Like, just, like, just imagine it. Just think about it for second, you know? Like, you can do whatever you want. It's your Ruby. But, like, you know, like, I got a girlfriend, you know? Like, like she's she wants the ring, you know? like Like, I feel like that's the kind of relationship they have rather than, like, you know, um Because like you were invoking the Rian Johnson and Joseph Grinlewitt of like, Joseph Grinlewitt was going to pop.
02:13:05
Speaker
Speaking about Jimmy Stewart, like when he was coming up, I was like, this is our Jimmy Stewart for today. and And I think he can still do that if you want. He still could. It's just weird that it's like he actively decided to not that. Hit record. paper He chose him record over any kind of true career he could have had.
02:13:25
Speaker
But he still has it like when he wants to pull it out, like because like in the Poker Face episode he did in season one, he he still has that fastball. Like it's it's like, OK, you didn't lose it. You just are hiding it. Yeah.
02:13:40
Speaker
And then when you go to somebody like Joshua Connor, he's hungry. You know, Joshua Connor, he knows the shit that he's got. He knows that he's got that Elliot Gould spirit in him. Yeah, he's got big time Gould energy.
02:13:52
Speaker
He does, right? Like, ah my favorite sequence in the film is when he has that difficult conversation with somebody and then he goes to the punching bag. And I feel like, like, as a performer...
02:14:05
Speaker
That's a very basic sequence, right? You've got to do so do some dialogue and then some over-the-top performance to show your rage. And I feel like he plays that so well that like i I would follow him to the ends of the earth.
02:14:17
Speaker
Like, Joshua Conner, you've earned a fan, you know? Like, like Thomas Hayden Church is sitting on that chair, and it's like, I would watch anything that Thomas Hayden Church is in. I would watch anything that fucking... ah like Joshua Garner is in. Like, you are now on that same Absolutely. Speaking of Thomas Hayden Church, what a goat. ah he's good It's great to see him in this. ah His character is so tragic. Like, i feel bad. Because because we' we're ah he's the groundskeeper of the church, and we know him through his relationship with Glenn Close. But then, like, once ah all the different threads are revealed...
02:14:53
Speaker
It's just like, oh, you poor guy. he's like a like an innocent puppy dog. I mean, yeah, he was in helped ah along a plot that wasn't good, but kind of, seemed he didn't even know what he was doing. he just, like, did it because it's like, that's just, that's how, I mean...
02:15:09
Speaker
It's a wife guy, you know, you're you you you're lady you're like your lady, your lady asks you to fucking ah ah pretend to be a dead guy. You're like, OK, honey, I got you. And also, like most of his sequences are based around him doing like a grimace. Like he's like his eyes are always bulging and his his mouth is always horizontal. He's like his his face is stretched.
02:15:30
Speaker
And it's because he's put in a tough position. And also the movie goes out of his way to say, like, there are sides within this community. And he is one of the. only neutral grounds, despite him also being integral to this entire conspiracy. And you believe that he would also be, ah you know, a key integral part of it while also being innocent. The movie threads that needle very well.
02:15:55
Speaker
And Thomas Aiden Church, as a performer, understands how to do that. Now let's transition for him to a different actor who needs to be discussed in talking about this movie. And somebody that I feel as though has been recently buried ah in terms of his involvement because of recent allegations, which, hey, I'm not going to the bathroom.
02:16:13
Speaker
Fuck him forever. i have no, ah you know, ah personal feelings towards him. But fucking Jeremy Renner in this movie ah playing fucking J.D. Vance. yeah Okay. ah okay let let me Let me fire up my Renner amp real quick. Okay.
02:16:27
Speaker
yeah Sorry. Yeah. Let me know what what updates you got for this week. Okay. x Fuck. It breaks my phone. ah Now iPhone's on fire and shit. Yeah. ah what What an interesting deployment of him, but also he's not good in this movie. There's one line read and I posted this online where i i it got their eyes out of me is when when they're in that that prayer group meeting and it's revealed the parentage of of of the kid. And he's like, we do not know this woman. We do not know her.
02:16:59
Speaker
See, that that scene is funny. and and And he's really good in that moment when he's playing stuff like that where he's like making culpability in ah in a dialogue sense. But most of his sequences are him like, like he comes into a sequence. He's like, he's like this. Oh, oh, hey.
02:17:16
Speaker
ah how bad That's really, ah what's going on here? Yeah. yeah Yeah, no, my wife. you know my wife. ah you know We would just haven't been hanging along. like He's doing a lot of that through the movie. So at no point do you ever buy his innocence. like You know the Chris Evans of this movie and obviously there's the connection to be made between Chris Evans MCU and Jeremy Renner MCU. um And also then you could also go forward from that and go Edward Norton MCU and also Josh Brolin MCU.
02:17:49
Speaker
Notice something going on there? i don't know. You tell me. but the Coincidence or conspiracy? Who knows? I'm just throwing that there. Just an idea. ah but but But with Renner, um I feel as though it was given to him as a performer. Rian Johnson's like, hey, you've been good at other movies before. You were in the Hurt Locker, for God's sake. ah Give us a bit of that magic.
02:18:11
Speaker
And ryan ah Jeremy Renner kind of left Rian Johnson hanging. I feel like he he could have taken that to the finish line a bit more. And now that we've hurt to... When did he lose it? Like, like i mean, yes, like he...
02:18:23
Speaker
win He was great in Wind River. right That was last time he tried. Are you telling me he didn't bring his all in tag? I don't know. You tell me. I'll never watch that. I hit have not seen. I think maybe on flipping through channels. like ah it was It was on and there was like some slow motion thing where he was like throwing plates at them. I don't know. i don't fucking know.
02:18:46
Speaker
Have you listened to his music? God, no. Is it good? he's probably He's probably one of my favorite examples of like Danity Project ah musicians, right? Because like when you think about it, right? Like when music when actors or like people who are not regularly musicians try to be musicians, they try to be like the artists, right? They try to be like, listen how deep my lyrics are. or Like Billy Bob Thorne, like I don't even want to talk about that I'm an actor. I'm a serious musician. Right.
02:19:15
Speaker
Or ah their influences are arty, right? Like a Scarlett Johansson may go like, oh, I'm really into like Nora Jones, you know, like that, right? He purposely makes music that sounds like, I imagine, dragons.
02:19:28
Speaker
He wants to make like Chevy ad music. And I think that that's really interesting. The fact that like somebody can listen to that kind of music and be like, that speaks to my soul.
02:19:39
Speaker
and And listening to this helps me express a part of myself. The fact that Jeremy Renner is that kind of person is fascinating. says a lot. Yeah, again, allegations that are against him, fuck him forever, but also all this stuff is very fascinating in the context of this movie. Yeah, it it is fascinating because, yeah like you said, there's not much to his character other than just being like, oh, my bitch wife, which it's like you really need...
02:20:07
Speaker
more Especially when we're getting like the recap of Glenn Close saying of like all the double twists and backstabbing at the end of like his motivation for wanting the jewel and the money and for killing people. i i really needed like a Chris Evans the level performance to sell that. I mean, the movie rest of the movie is good. theyre like it doesn't cry It's not like any of this brings it falls apart. It's just that he he doesn't fully...
02:20:35
Speaker
sell that like that's is still a satisfying scene because even though you know it's coming it's just always fun to have the switcher like oh I put the poison in the other ah you put you du put the poison my cup I switched it like yes exactly right um The thing that's... ah that That's actually... That beat right there that you pointed out, the whole, like, they switched the poison cups, that was the one jumping of the shark for me, right?
02:21:02
Speaker
That was, like, the moment that it felt the most like Glass Onion, because in Glass Onion, it's so many, like, reveals where it's like... Glass Onion is all that. there would No. Glass Onion is is is is that cutesy the whole time, which I was fine with as a lark, but, like, it does...
02:21:19
Speaker
not the sales out of the thing dramatically. And this is, it really only does it for that one time. So it's like, okay, I'll allow it. And in the context of this, what this movie is trying to do, like, let's imagine that final sequence, right?
02:21:36
Speaker
like where Benoit Blanc and Josh O'Connor have to kind of come to terms with who committed this crime. Would you rather Glenn Close Jeremy? Glenn Close because, that the choose it yeah, it's just more compelling from just a motivation standpoint and better actor.
02:21:55
Speaker
so and And also she needs to have some degree of a redemption arc, right? Like she needs to have some level, like that moment where she confesses, right, is the most important part of the movie. Like she would like she was more culpable for everything that happened with this retelling of this, ah you know, cursed woman in the church's history. She had more to do with that than even Josh Brolin did.
02:22:19
Speaker
Right? Yeah, because she saw the truth and then perverted it to her own ends. And then... Participated in her downfall. Like, she... Agreefully. Yeah. giving us that sequence where we see a child get beaten and we're meant to cheer it on. And, and you're like, yeah yeah, that child fucker. Like that one of the few, like, is this a terrifier movie? Like what's going on here? Um, yeah. And so then ultimately that's the note that the movie chooses. So Jeremy Renner ends up feeling less like a character with motivations of his own in more, he's just like ah a tool, you know, like she's a tool that, uh,
02:23:00
Speaker
glenn close uses to to further her her own means ah like one that backfires because like you know ah thomas hane church gets killed and inadvertently but it doesn't it would all land better if renner felt like a full character like like thomas hane church he's a tool similarly he's used for the plot but he feels like a guy like a a person that i can empathize with it's Speaking of guys that were giving spotlights, because i feel like we're just going through the whole cast now. and i And I want to give this person their own spotlight, even though the film doesn't give them this much spotlight.
02:23:37
Speaker
Jeffrey Wright. Oh, fear lucky yeah. ah Like probably one of our best living actors. I got to say. Right. Like he's got to be right. And I like this. Like Paul Giamatti in some ways. I was going to say that. You said the words right out of the wrong side. But like he he's kind of that realm right now. and and And to be in a movie like this and Highest to Lewis in the same year, I feel like is is ah also very interesting and important. And his one scene in the Phoenician scheme. like I like that he's like a ah West like main player now, it seems like. ah
02:24:12
Speaker
But yeah, seeing him show up just for two scenes of this was a delight. And and also I feel his... presence in the film matters because like we're introduced in this film, right? The way this movie starts is great. I love the way that this movie is like, okay, here's where the block, but we're going to go. It's there and then we're going to get into Joshua Conner's story. And then when we get into Joshua Conner's story, Joshua Conner is just like, okay, now here is my problems with where I came from first, rather than getting into the mystery, right? It's just like, here is what it is. And Jeffrey Wright is just like,
02:24:45
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. You know, like he's he he he doesn't see anything wrong in the way that Joshua Conner's, you know, bristling with faith is Jeffrey Wright's character is like an older version of Joshua Conner, who came to this like way earlier down the road and is helping him guide him there. He's like, we actually need that energy.
02:25:06
Speaker
Yes, we do. Because, again, it feeds into this thing where it's like religion can be a healing factor. But but you have to fight for it. And people corrupt it. And josa Josh Brolin corrupted it. And and and that's why you got Jeff Brode even at the beginning of the film being like, honestly, I wish you'd punch him out, you know? she's like Yeah.
02:25:25
Speaker
we They all know what's going on. ah other Other strong ah moments of the the kick cast, Kerry Washington's not given like a ton. She basically has like two scenes that that are major, but she sells them, I think. Because like she's the conduit through the reveal that her quote unquote son, who we know was actually just a you know, just hoisted upon her, like her father brought home this kid and was like, raise raise him as your son, ah that that's actually the Monsignor's child. And and so its like, she' she's, you know, the reveal for that information. And she sells the pain of like, someone who's had to carry the burden of this. And and and then to have that thrown back in her face when the Monsignor's like, your father would be ashamed of me. It's like, no, she's doing the right thing by exposing you, you fucker.
02:26:17
Speaker
Yes. gar Gary Washington, right? I feel like he's an actor, has been kind of like sidelined, you know? i feel like they're television a television actor almost, but despite having like their talents, right?
02:26:30
Speaker
And their position in a movie that feels like they're almost like pushing back against the thing that's been put upon them. And I really admire that about that, the way that her... casting as well as her performance in this movie. This is where Rian Johnson is metatextual in a way that's not cute, scene, annoying. Yeah.
02:26:48
Speaker
um I never watched Scandal. did you watch Scandal? I saw a lot of gifs from it. and Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen gifts from it. I mean, it's just one of those, like, I haven't watched, like, an actual network TV show in, like, fucking decades. And I'm not going to start now, even for someone as wonderful as is Kerry Washington. But it it seemed like it was shu she's great in it. um ah So since this we're just kind of just going. before Before you move on, before we move on. Lena Dunham did guest star in an episode of Scandal.
02:27:22
Speaker
Just wanted to throw that out there. So I continue. Okay. So I need to watch that. So note it. ah the Yeah. oh I got it. Kaylee does Spaney. Spaney. Spaney. How do you pronounce? Kaylee Spaney is very briefly even this movie, but I think that she is amazing in this. What did you think?
02:27:41
Speaker
I thought she was really good. Like like we said, like the supporting cast is backseated, but like we do get enough of, like yes, the like the character of a person with ailment or you know some kind of disability is like looking for for healing or comfort in maybe some of the wrong places and being led astray. like That's a character we've seen before. But she really sells the like Like, I really feel for her character at the very end when he's doing kind of like his his roundup of like, I'm going to reveal who done it at the end. And then he kind of stops and she's like, I need to
Kaylee Spaney's Exceptional Acting Skills
02:28:17
Speaker
know. I need the truth. Like, because like she's just been...
02:28:22
Speaker
lied to so much and and and manipulated that she's like, no, I fucking need something real right now. And and she she really makes that that frustration palpable. i've like I've liked her ever since Devs. I ah yeah some i can't go equally to bat for every Alex Garland project. That one's interesting, ah especially because like the main character is maybe the least interesting part of Devs, but she is really, really good at it.
02:28:51
Speaker
Oh, for sure. and And I feel like she's been having kind of a moment between the other ah Garland film, ah Civil War, Puke, Puke, Puke. You shot the fucking Antifa of Massacre. You saved the town of Eddington.
02:29:06
Speaker
But the the thing that I like, sorry, so to go back. Kaylee Spaney, I feel like as an actor in Civil War specifically and Priscilla specifically, ah those are probably her most visible projects.
02:29:22
Speaker
um Oftentimes, yeah, and even in that film as well, I would say that like it oftentimes plays up how youthful she is. I think oftentimes like they make her look younger than she actually is in those movies.
02:29:35
Speaker
um And it's to put either put her in danger or to like kind of give us kind of like a wise beyond their years kind of approach. And in this movie, Kaylee Spaney almost looks like she's a 40-year-old woman.
02:29:48
Speaker
Like, she she looks, like, world-weary. Like, that she's, like, lived through some shit. Like, you buy that this is someone who suffered through this kind of chronic pain and illness for, like, her whole life. Yeah.
02:30:02
Speaker
the way she plays the chronic illness, right? um When she's playing the cello at the end, I feel that pain. um That everything is effortful for her. Like even that moment, which kind of elicited a laugh just because of blood closes over the the top reaction, is like, well, it's a miracle when she stands up, you know, it is like, no, I can walk. It's just like really, really hard. And you see the effort in every move. Like, like that's, that's impressive just from a physical, uh,
02:30:32
Speaker
a performance standpoint because she sells it. And also if we're talking about a representation of disability awareness, also we're going down that route, right? um I can't think of how many times I've seen somebody who like is in a wheelchair just based solely on pain, you know, not based on like paralysis, you know, like I see, that i feel like I see that predominantly, right? No, you only see it where it's like they cannot use their legs.
02:30:56
Speaker
Yes. So to have it so it's like this person can function like anybody else if they wanted to. But it hurts all the time. It takes so much effort. And that's tied into their theology.
02:31:10
Speaker
It's tied into their belief system and the way that they interact with the world, right? So she's a really fascinating character and she's given a lot on a performance standpoint, you know? And I feel like Mila Kunis has even given like enough to where she could have done something like this, right? Yeah. But the reason I'm invoking Mila Kunis in this conversation is is the difference between two actors where Achilles Fanny can find the M and Mila Kunis has those ends given to her and she lets them all slide.
02:31:40
Speaker
Yeah. So like if you had cloned Kaylee Spaney and that she could have played that character and the chief, that you're saying that would be better. And I agree. I'm saying you're thinking too small.
02:31:53
Speaker
i think that we should just clone Kaylee Spaney and we should just populate whole movie with Kaylee Spaney. What? Yeah, because if you say about it, right, like a murder mystery is all about like whodunit, right?
02:32:04
Speaker
How hard would a whodunit be if like are the same, right? Like that's, hey, like Brian Johnson, get me on the phone, you know, let's get Bong Joon-ho in here. Mickey 17, let's make a Mickey 18. You know what I'm saying?
02:32:15
Speaker
We got it. It's not a bad idea. not a bad idea at all. um The horrible transgression I just did there. No, it was, it was gold.
02:32:27
Speaker
think you can't giving out pure gold. Other people who were in this movie. ah Yeah. How'd you feel about biracial ah Zachary Levi? That's how I feel about the conservative influencer guy. He looks at when I saw him in Twisters because he plays like the dead boyfriend in Twisters. I was like, he has like Zachary Levi face. There's a there's a certain Christian. Sorry. His name is Christian.
02:32:54
Speaker
but Christian Walker. Yes, people were comparing his look to Christian Walker a lot. The eyes, I see it. Yes, and also the complexion. I feel like he like he matches a lot of that. I don't think it's a one-to-one.
02:33:07
Speaker
I think that people are kind of like making that work rather than it actually naturally is that. Because they didn't Christian Walker even get pivot from like he he was like gay conservative and then now he's just like relationship advice? Yeah.
02:33:21
Speaker
nice guy or Gay conservative. The problem is that like he is gay conservative from like a Candace Owens perspective. You can critique you know aspects of the conservative movement from his perspective.
02:33:35
Speaker
Still reinforce the aspect of the conservative culture that he appreciates. I don't know why I know as much about Christopher Walker. so It's good work if you can get it. It's it's a good grift. I'm sure it's very profitable. And the reason I don't think that this character is a one-to-one is because ultimately his character is largely unsuccessful, right? like he's He's not our good room reader. Christian Walker was better at that than him.
02:33:57
Speaker
um But the the thing is that ah he is more motivated by like family lineage. And when he's given this like answer of who his father is, his allegiance has changed entirely. But even then, like he was more of an opportunist to begin with.
02:34:12
Speaker
The guy holding the iPhone recording the sermon is ultimately the most opportunist in the church, right? Think about a megachurch, right? Have you ever been to a megachurch?
Commercialization of Megachurches
02:34:22
Speaker
i Not like a huge, huge megachurch, but i I've i've i like worked at a modestly sized megachurch.
02:34:34
Speaker
Okay, well, I'm not sure how modestly sized your megachurch was, but I'm going to say this and we can you know go from there. I went to a megachurch one time and one thing that blew my mind was when I went, i watched the sermon, left the sermon into the you know foyer and they were selling DVD copies of the sermon.
02:34:56
Speaker
that that was That was my job at the thing of like, I would record the services and then I would also man the table that had like the tapes and the DVDs of the merch.
02:35:08
Speaker
that yeah so so So technically speaking, we were talking about Christian Walker, but we were dancing around it. We're talking about you, Doug. the He's like you. You didn't want to talk about it. We got to talk about it. Like what I was getting at there, right? Like, because like, separate from what you did, I'm not trying to put this on you, right?
02:35:28
Speaker
It was just a job. Yeah. But hey, no, that's it. exactly that It was just a job. And I feel like in a megachurch, the influence or the ah impetus to do something like that is removed from the idea of theology itself.
Rian Johnson's Visual and Thematic Choices
02:35:43
Speaker
So to have a character like that who was so integral with like Josh Roland's idea of theology is very fascinating. Yeah, and he gives us the great in of it. I've seen people a clock of like, oh, ah you know, he's filming these things on the iPhone, but then when you play them, they're clearly shot with the same camera the rest of the movie shot with. But I love the trick of it just zooms into the phone and then we're just in the scene because then we're not limited to, oh, this is the angle that the phone would have been because like in that one scene in the rectory, it's just sitting on the couch next to him. So it's like we would have only gotten that one static angle, but instead we can move around, you know, and cut, you know, like a movie. So I feel like that that free, I mean, that you can make either choice. Like you'd be like, okay, i'm I'm going to either do that, find a way to transition into shooting this like a normal scene, or then we're just going to go handheld and like, you know, commit to that gimmick. And I feel like he does
02:36:45
Speaker
i i it would be interesting to see him if he made the other choice but I think he the way he did does this is ah great. Yeah and and what you're getting at there too this idea that like ah you know he could have gone either way if he were to do the found footage route you know i want to see a Rian Johnson found footage movie that sounds kind of fun like the the concept of us living within a space as they experienced it matters because it's also but emotional truth of how these people are perceiving what he's saying, right? Because ultimately, Josh Brolin is trying to convince these people and he wins most of them. The only person who doesn't win is Kerry Washington, right?
02:37:25
Speaker
ah So the aspect of recording on the phone for that outcome, ah the outcome that it needs to reach reach matters more for the ending. To do it in found footage would be more in service of a different kind of movie.
02:37:41
Speaker
and And that different kind of movie would have been interesting too, but I'm glad with the movie that we got um to kind of go back on the rails a bit to talk a bit about how this stuff is kind of playing out.
02:37:53
Speaker
I kind of feel as though this movie shares a lot in common with a movie like Hot Fuzz as well. Jeez. Like, like, ah like Last Onion tries to do the whole thing where it's like all none of this matters and everyone's kind of culpable.
02:38:05
Speaker
This movie does the culpable thing, but the people who are culpable also feel kind of innocent. Like even Jeremy Renner, right? Like even Jeremy Renner by the end of the movie, like we feel like that's a guy who's taking advantage of by circumstances.
02:38:20
Speaker
rather than By circumstance and Glenn Close and that he's just kind of dumb enough to be like will or he lacks a will of his own enough that he can just be pushed either way, which is kind of the vibe of the flock itself of, you know, the Monsignor's followers that they're just looking for someone to tell them what to do. So that when someone with a clear agenda comes along, it tells them that they're willing to go with it. They're all willing to this. The secret child is is not a deal breaker for any of them. They're all willing, you know, like the Jeremy Renner line. He's already coming up with like the rationalization for like why this is fine and doesn't change anything. And I love that it's like they all decide they're still on his side. And then that's when the Monsignor is like dumping them. He's like, fuck all of you guys.
02:39:11
Speaker
is and And to go back to that like line that you had pointed out that Jeremy Renner does, where he's like, oh, you know, like who knows, right? like That itself, ah you know, many of the Knives Out movies have been like ah critiqued through the prism of like Twitter politics. Like, Rian Johnson is very clearly very active on Twitter, right? The thing about the previous two Twitter films...
02:39:38
Speaker
i I'll leave them there, is that the they ah very much so felt like they existed within that ecosystem. And Jeremy Renner's speech feels so in line with like how a conservative on Twitter enforces the patriarchy. And to go further than that, like this movie leaves the Twitter politics to the side so much that I wouldn't say that like Brian Johnson is some progressive leftist at this point.
02:40:06
Speaker
I still feel that he is still pretty like mega Libby, you know? He's lived up. Yeah. However, um I feel as though this message of hopelessness and questioning of faith coming at this time in American history where, you know, the regular decorum of American politics is being proven to be a sham.
02:40:28
Speaker
And what matters more is what you hold on to as an ideal. um And if you translate that from, you know, a religious context to a nationalistic one, I think that's very interesting. Yeah.
02:40:39
Speaker
ah is it Because it that just in a time where seemingly even the people in charge don't believe in anything except for like themselves in power. And that's a very clear line, like obvious parallels with the Monsignor and his lust for power. Like I said, it's an unsubtle movie. But I feel like this one does feel the least didactic, weirdly. like like Yeah, exactly.
02:41:07
Speaker
and Because, like, the politics the politics are there, but it it's just not... it's still It's still just its own movie. I compared it to Brisson, and Brisson is a very quiet, contemplative filmmaker. Like, you make a movie...
02:41:23
Speaker
that's quiet and contemplative after making two bold and brash like riffs on murder mysteries. That's fascinating. You don't do that unless like you are tired of what you were doing before.
02:41:37
Speaker
You don't do that unless you feel as though the thing that you were making before was in a way inauthentic. And and in in many ways, I feel as though this film is as authentic as a genre filmmaker can get. It definitely feels like a level up and like a maturing.
02:41:52
Speaker
i would we We've like referenced some of the visuals in in in this movie, but like this movie is so good looking like that it it you can take for granted, yes, there's great filmmakers who've made films that have been released on Netflix but so many times. It gets...
02:42:10
Speaker
the compression flattens in it doesn't, you you don't even know if it's like, if it's just the way that the shot is supposed supposed to look. But like, this movie fucking looks so good.
02:42:20
Speaker
ah I'm thinking especially of like the scenes, like we're seeing reflections through the stained glass or like there's, scenes where like Blanc's in the church monologuing and the light is changing outside like like the sun is changing position, like the sun does in real life. The sun moves and the light is changing through the window. That's fucking crazy shit.
02:42:46
Speaker
And in the the wood for no reason... the This church is surrounded by the spookiest looking woods ever. Like there's moments where I thought this was going to tip into like almost like full like I'm like, is he about to make this a horror movie? And he could. i feel like he has that in him. The woods, there's the specific patch where there's like the trees that are kind of framing this like kind of bush patch.
02:43:08
Speaker
You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. but like Yeah. Whenever it cut to that location, i was like, oh, fucking, Rian Johnson's back into fucking Tarkovsky. He's been watching fucking Stalker again. He's been watching, like, all of those movies, Mirror, you know?
02:43:23
Speaker
like Like, he is in that realm in how this is framed, and it's an interesting, you know, in-between space, and commenting upon what you were just saying about the spooky woods, the fact that that is often the space that Joshua Conner retreats to for Reprieve, I find fascinating.
02:43:39
Speaker
Um... Then, ah talking about how this movie looks and how like there's those day changes, um abe it's obvious that we have this like cold and warm lighting and how like the warm lighting reflects like the presence of God.
02:43:53
Speaker
that All that's very obvious. I think that what's more interesting is how they plan that around how a day changes. You know, like... a space at a time. And it goes back to that conversation on the phone again, right? Think about that. yeah right like You were talking about how that sequence was supposed to be like a quick call to get a clue to then go on to the next thing, right? And what happens instead is he's on the phone with this woman for hours.
02:44:17
Speaker
it also changes in that sequences where it comes from day and the the next time we come back to it, it's nighttime, right? And the fact that that's an ethos that's carried throughout the entire film rather than just this one location where it's kind of like a come-to-Jesus moment or a Rhodes-to-Damascus situation, as they say in the film. Yeah.
02:44:40
Speaker
the fact that it's able to persist that theme through every single moment is meaningful. Yeah. I'm sorry. I was scrolling through through the movie, like some of my favorite visuals. i love just like the setup and staging of ah because Glenn Close is still, you know, even as things is unraveling, she'll still trying to frame this all as like ah an act act of God. So like she makes it look like the Monsignor after he rose from the grave, killed Jeremy Renner, but the tub they find him in where the bodies dissolved of acid, like that's where this almost, what like the the movie feels grounded, but that almost is like, we're we're going into like a full genre territory territory here of like this is this acidic, goop and there's a fucking skeleton in it. it and It's awesome.
02:45:27
Speaker
it's It's gnarly andgross and gross. And I, Rian Johnson, make a full fucking throated horror movie. I don't know. Just fucking do it Make it nasty. What I love about that sequence, too, is that it's also a commentary on the failure of Benoit Blanc. Because, like, think about it. Benoit Blanc, throughout this whole movie, he kind of has the pieces together and he can end this early, right? I feel like he he is he has got the basketball, right?
02:45:57
Speaker
He's standing at the three-point line, and we are watching as, like, we're at 30 seconds left in the round, right? And he's just standing there. He's just holding the ball, and he's standing there as the clock ticks down. And we watch as he lets the basketball leave his hands right at the last moment. That's what this movie is.
02:46:17
Speaker
He's waiting for the good, like right at the buzzer. He's shooting it. yeah ah be Because ah part of it is he does want to protect, ah do because initially everything does point to Judd, you know, like that, like like logically, like in terms of like who could have done this and what what what this looks like. Like he intentionally leaves out of like the locked door mystery of like ways someone could have gotten to the Monsignor in this room with no exit.
02:46:45
Speaker
It's like, well, he was the first one at the body, he could have just stabbed it then, and and he he does not touch that because he he knows it's not a judge, but he can't prove that yet. but But that's like much earlier on in the film. I feel like Later on in the film, it's much a different focus because in the earlier part of the film, he's just trying to figure it out with him, right? He's he's along with Joshua O'Connor's journey. But then after a certain point, he flips.
02:47:13
Speaker
After a certain point, he's going like, okay, now it's your time to talk. Because he knows already where this thing is going, right? And and and to go back to my initial point about like you know the the the failure of Benoit Blanc, I feel like Benoit Blanc, up until that acid bath sequence, he he knew what was going to happen in those moments. Not exactly that, but he knew who was doing all of these things and he was waiting for them to come to those terms and they didn't do it in time. Then they took even more drastic measures.
02:47:43
Speaker
So in that moment, he understands that he needs to like... ratchet things up, he needs to be a detective again because he thought that he could do this, you know, hands-off emotional approach technique, but it couldn't work. It needs to be a marriage of these two things and that's why he leads the film so conflicted.
02:47:59
Speaker
Yeah, him being passive and taking the backseat almost gets an innocent man because it does it and it still doesn't happen until Glenn Close is is, you know, ah outside the church and and talking to Kelly Washington and or or or Kerry Washington and is saying like, oh, so they're going to arrest Judd now. And ands like, yeah, I guess so. And like, she's finally, you know, like she realizes...
02:48:28
Speaker
you know like what Blanc did for her in terms of like stopping short of of of the reveal but that is relying on her having a come to Jesus moment and choosing to do the right thing she could have easily been like nah fuck that guy you know what I just remember too Glenn Close was also in an MCO movie I just want to throw that out there was miss smart? or is it Galaxy?
02:48:55
Speaker
o Oh, i' like forgot. Damn. My theory stands strong and firm. Every villain of a Knives Out movie was an integral, not integral part, in the MCU.
02:49:09
Speaker
And I think that that matters. Yeah, Edward Norton, integral part of the MCU. Glenn Close was not a part of the MCU. Everybody else was. Everybody else who was a villain in the Knives Out universe was an integral part of the MCU, except for Glenn Close. Yeah, that's very true.
02:49:28
Speaker
i don't know what that means, but it's true. I think it's people who are in this point in Hollywood who are coming to terms with their position and the way that I would like to do some real acting. vi of someone That's what it felt like when that's what felt like when Chris Evans was in the first one where he was like, ah can I do some real shit? Because there was a run of him like being in like real movies and and you're like, oh, Chris Evans.
02:49:55
Speaker
Despite the shit talking I've made about Jeremy Renner on this, you know, like Jeremy Renner is trying. He's failing, but he's trying. Right. He's the mayor of Kingstown. You should fucking show him some respect. My mistake, you know, as a task fan, I need to I need to put my I need to take myself to task. You know what I'm saying?
02:50:14
Speaker
ah but No, I've never watched. I don't even know what the show is about. It's just a poster of him looking stern. He's like, there's a new warden in town. I thought he's a mayor, not a warden. Does it make sense? i don't know, man. Like Jeremy Renner, like he he's trying, you know, and and Rian Johnson wants him to succeed in because obviously, you know, like at that point, he was still an underrated actor in quotations. Right.
02:50:40
Speaker
ah So, you know, the he's given all the opportunities and squanders them. Also going back to the visual things, another thing I wanted to point out was there's a lot of dolly track in this movie.
02:50:53
Speaker
there's ah we're're We're going to rotate around people. We're to do lots of push-ins. When I think about Rian Johnson's like... visual language, I think about that. You know, i think about how he uses the camera.
02:51:06
Speaker
When I watch a movie like Brick, right? Like I think about that sequence when like ah Joseph Brunelow that punches that guy. And oh, right. That's such a cool move. Yeah. Right.
02:51:16
Speaker
Like Rian Johnson used to have like a million of those in his movie. Right. And as he's evolved as a filmmaker, he's become far more relaxed. Yeah.
02:51:26
Speaker
And he strategically deploys them. it kind of It kind of reminds me of like, you know, when Raimi started, he's moving, zigzagging the camera in every direction. okay but like Glass Onion had no inventive filmmaking.
02:51:39
Speaker
I just have to say, like Glass Onion is like the most plainly directed movie I can think of. Like there is no moment in Glass Onion where I think to myself, wow, that was visually impressive. Seriously, like ah like that's something I will take to my grave.
02:51:52
Speaker
thinking you trying to think of a mode to disagree with you and I can't so I guess we'll just leave it at that it it looks it's worst movie it's one worst movie it's it's not a well directed movie it has no idea what shape it needs to take the six i I mean I don't know I need to rewatch Brothers but I still think Brothers blue might be below that for for for me ah just in terms of entertainment That's the Ella McKay of his friend is
Daniel Craig's Authenticity in Film Roles
02:52:17
Speaker
filmography. but That's the past for me. I mean, I i enjoyed it. Like I told you, the the I was the one who picked it amongst my friends because I think I had i had already seen Brick and maybe Loop.
02:52:29
Speaker
Yeah, Looper had come out. And then so I was just like, oh, what else has he done? Let's just Brothers Bloom. And then so in my roommate. a ferrian Adrian Brody is in this movie. Yeah, my roommate likes Adrian Brody, so it it wasn't like a hard sell. i was like, oh, yeah, there's a Ruffalo Adrian Brody movie. Let's watch that. And then afterward she's like, that was the most boring movie ever. i was like, it oh ah I feel like there's a con man movie can only be so bad for me. Like, like there's like a a bar of like, unless you're just...
02:53:02
Speaker
I don't know, just like fuck, totally fucking it up. I can't think of ones that like fully lose me like that. If you just have some people who are being slick and double crossing each other, playing cons, and you flash back to a scene, you're like, this is actually what he was doing. Oh, he did some slight of hand. He put the thing in the thing. Ah, shit.
02:53:20
Speaker
Like, I love that shit. I just made a connection earlier in this ah that blew my mind, which is that ah in Brothers Bloom, the mastermind is Rachel Weisz, right?
02:53:32
Speaker
And in the Knives Out franchise, it's fucking Daniel Craig. And obviously, Rachel Weisz and Daniel Craig are here, right? Whoa. Oh, man. Air horns, right? And then also, like, to go back to Daniel Craig a bit, right? And you were talking a bit about, like, how, as a performer, he excels in these movies, right? um there It is kind of, like, an open secret that, like, ah him and Rachel Weisz are in an open relationship and that Daniel Craig is not exactly as heterosexual as people think he is, you know? He's...
02:54:04
Speaker
Very flexible in that sense. It was a little too convincing and queer. Right? Right. So the reason I'm bringing this up is because I feel as though in James Bond, ah there was a sense of masking. There was a sense of like he had to hide. Bond is straight. He needs to fucking be. But even in those movies, there's still like homoeroticism leaks in. Like when Mads Mikkelsen is like torturing him or then yeah even ah fucking Javier Bardem. But yeah, just like their their body language together and and openly alluding to the fact that they've as agents, they've had to seduce the men. It's like, well, yeah, I mean, yeah, you're a spy. You got to fuck anyone.
02:54:50
Speaker
If you're like watching those movies from the context of when they were made, right? Like you're watching the Casino Royale in 2008, right? And they're doing that thing, you're thinking to yourself, ha ha, that's pretty funny and interesting that they did that. I don't see that in movies regularly, right? 2013, 2012, they do that inspector right ah sorry in Skyfall, right? cancel And you're like, wow, the times have changed so differently where they can make something like that. And that's kind of interesting, right? Yeah.
02:55:18
Speaker
It's 2025 now, right? Like gay marriage was legalized in between the two movies that i referenced earlier, right? Like the the attitude around ah queer representation and existence has changed dramatically since then.
02:55:35
Speaker
And I think that with Daniel Craig in these Knives Out films, I think that there's a reason why he feels a lot more comfortable. Yes. And also, like, it feels closer to who he is.
02:55:45
Speaker
Like, even when he's putting on, like, a weird voice, like, I feel like he is more of the jaunty, like, oh, I'm going to tell you a funny story kind of person. I'm the guy who's going to steal your girl over a martini.
02:55:55
Speaker
You know, like that. Yeah. so So like to bring it back to Knives Out, um I feel as though this of loosening that comes from a closer representation of who he is as a person um in ah congruity with like who he is as a figure, as an actor, puts him in this position in Knives Out 3 where um he like this matters more than James Bond, you know.
02:56:20
Speaker
And at yeah the integrity of the character matters more. And the place that we leave Benoit Blanc in this film, this could be the last Knives Out film. And I would feel as though everything had been said.
02:56:33
Speaker
And it's all because of Daniel Craig, not even because of Ryan Johnson's writing. I feel as though Daniel Craig delivers that so perfectly to where I'm like, maybe this guy's done. so or even if he goes on to solve more mysteries that he is kind of forever changed now. Like, that business this we've seen the completion of an arc. And, like, that they za they they could end here, although I would keep watching these. I mean, like, my the only stipulation is, like, yeah, don't go back to Netflix. So like, hey if you want to make more, like I love a good murder mystery. I love Benoit Blanc, but fuck, fuck Netflix. So ah yeah, Ryan, if you want to keep making them, but ah I also can imagine that, you know,
02:57:20
Speaker
You spend three movies ah with, with ah I mean, yeah, they're different cast, but you know he you're still in that world that he probably wants to do other stuff, like I would imagine. ah And whatever he wants to do, i want to see it. I'm at this point where I want Rian Johnson to make whatever inspires him.
02:57:40
Speaker
i Because previously, right, with with Knives Out, Glass Onion, Last Jedi, and this movie, I got the impression that he was on autopilot. I got the impression that he was like, I'm cashing in my chips. Even with a movie, a show like Poker Base, which was interesting.
02:57:57
Speaker
Um, that feels like something that you do when you're done trying, you know? um and what it feels like with wake up dead man is that he woke up.
02:58:08
Speaker
He was the dead man and that he needed to like fucking, you know, kick it back into high gear and be a good filmmaker. Yeah. You know, and he did that again. and and And with the setup of how this movie ends, I feel as though he could do another looper. He could do a brick. He could do a brother's bloom.
02:58:26
Speaker
And I would be welcome. and and Or something completely different that he hasn't
Speculating Future Projects for Rian Johnson
02:58:31
Speaker
done before. I don't know what that would be. Yeah. globe-trotting, treasure-seeking adventure. i know. He just does like his version of Indiana Jones.
02:58:41
Speaker
But it's not Indiana Jones. It's just like a guy like that. Just do, because Indiana Jones came about being love it because indiana jones came about because people couldn't get the rights to Bond. So he made his own globe-trotting adventure.
02:58:52
Speaker
it's like, well we don't need to keep making Indiana Jones movies. Just do a thing like that. I just talked myself into like a national treasure with Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Just sounds good. Like, like, ah like I feel as though he'd be much better than like the Guy Ritchie, John Krasinski film. Right.
02:59:08
Speaker
I, that popped into my head and I was like, that's not real. There's a lot of Guy Ritchie movies that, that he's done. Like, like, Wrath a Man, I guess, was the last like ah real Guy Ritchie movie. And then and like a lot of other stuff he does. I'm like, okay, no, but really, what what did he do? That's not a a movie. Yeah.
02:59:29
Speaker
Okay, I got a pitch. I got a pitch. This is the pitch, right? Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Indiana Jones-style mystery series where he's globetrotting and fighting bad people, all that stuff.
02:59:41
Speaker
The person who should direct that, not fucking Rian Johnson, Danny Boyle. I feel like Danny Boyle always wanted to do James Bond, right?
02:59:51
Speaker
And I feel like
02:59:55
Speaker
and i feel like It's kind of rude they never gave it to him. Right? Especially considering he directed the London Olympics. My favorite fact about his career. Did you know that? Yeah. It's just like, why... Why not? Why why did... what is it Is he like...
03:00:14
Speaker
and perceived at least at that at that moment was like, oh, he's too much of an auteur. He's going to have like ideas. That was the issue. hey Him and the broccoli, ah it it was the same deal as him and Nolan, right? Because it it was always Boyle and Nolan always wanted to do Bond movies. They're like, these guys are going to takes. Yeah, exactly. That was the issue.
03:00:34
Speaker
And then also to bring it back to the London Olympics, fucking Daniel Craig as James Bond shows up in the Olympics. Like, Daniel Boyle was able to like... Direct Bond. Bond movie. Yeah. But it was through that venue. That's incredible.
Legacy of Martin Scorsese and Danny Boyle
03:00:49
Speaker
Speaking of Boyle, I like it because it seems like we had already invoked 28 years later Bone Temple. we ah We're all going to the Bone Temple next month. But...
03:01:00
Speaker
ah it But they confirmed pretty much ahead of time that like, oh, we're doing part three also because that that seemed like i was like, ooh, if two is going to be more divisive, like I i wonder, is it going to be commercially so you know viable enough to like justify three? But if three is happening, does that mean Boyle's coming back for that one?
03:01:24
Speaker
Was that the plan? Well, bullshit. Like, I don't want it to be Alex Garland, right? but i i like I love Nina Costa's Hedda, right? But like, I don't want to see another Nina Costa movie after we have gotten the taste of a Danny Boyle movie. Come on now. Like, i like look, we're having a ah conversation that I'm highly biased on because I love Danny Boyle, you know? Like, like when the Bike Check podcast did the Danny Boyle series, I was like, finally somebody else.
03:01:51
Speaker
You know what i mean? Like, but like for me, I love Danny Boyle and I feel as though he is a great representation of what like early 2000s cinema means. And we're entering into a sphere where like the early 2000s will slowly become mine for nostalgia. Yeah.
03:02:07
Speaker
And I think that it's important for people to recognize what Danny Boyle did and ah what his films meant for that era. um And i I feel as though him coming back the way that he has, has been like almost a vital grandfather moment.
03:02:23
Speaker
Because like grandfather still got it, you know, he's like 67 making these movies and and like Killers the Fire Moon. I never really doubted that he still had it. It's just that yesterday became so much of a joke of like a meme, basically, that retroactively, I feel like people started to be like, wait a minute, is Boyle always been a hack? And it's like, oh slow down. but Like I brought up Killers of the Flower Moon and I want to say that I want to hand her that home for a second. Right. Because like with I love that movie. Right. I think it's actually one of Martin Scorsese's best movies. Right.
03:02:58
Speaker
ah Yeah, I you could say it's the but I still lean towards casino. But but like, on like a technical level, like Killers of Flower Moon is kind of like the ultimate statement he's made as an artist.
03:03:11
Speaker
Look, like, just to go on a separate tangent, it's one of the only American films made by a white filmmaker who has had an honest discussion about the ah treatment of ah Native Americans in America, right?
03:03:23
Speaker
Like, that's the only film. And acknowledging his culpability in it. Like, that's like the finalist, the genius of it, of where he's like, i I'm telling this the best way I can, but I'm, you know I'm a fucking white guy. Yeah. where he's just like, this isn't even my story to tell. so so And I'm bringing him up because it's important in context of Killers the Flower Moon. Larry Fezzenden is in that movie.
03:03:47
Speaker
That's the reason why you should watch Larry Fezzenden movies, right? Like, Larry Fezzenden is directly linked to Martin Scorsese when he's making these statements, right? So it's important to watch his movies. You know? Like, like I think that that's that's the biggest sell I can make of his filmography, right? um But but Then when it comes to, ah you know, Martin Scorsese in this context of this, right?
03:04:09
Speaker
um Martin Scorsese is 82 and he's making it for Kills of the Flower Moon. Most of the shots are kind of like wise or medium close-ups. They're pretty like, you know, they're toned down for Scorsese, right?
03:04:20
Speaker
And an ends with Danny Boyle, he's like only 15 years out from reaching Scorsese age. And he's experimenting with iPhones. He's changing like frame rates. He's, you know, messing with the shutter speed, the exposure and all these things on a scene to scene basis. These are things that you do when you're like a filmmaker who just came out of film school trying to make it big. And Boyle does this on every single movie.
03:04:46
Speaker
That's why he's one of the most interesting filmmakers who's alive today in my It's fucked up that it's, I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised because genre films get stiff a lot, but that 28 years probably won't. It's like wasn't on the cinematography shortlist. know, it was like, that movie looks insane.
03:05:06
Speaker
but He also got to think about it from this perspective. 28 Slater never got nominated for any Oscars, right?
Recognition of Genre Films in Awards
03:05:13
Speaker
Like 28 years later, it never got nominated MTV Movie Awards for Best Montage, despite having the best montage in history. Yeah. um the the The thing is, is that... um Horror movies are always going to be undervalued in the eyes of the accountant. Well, especially specifically what he's doing. He's making very bold and weird choices. Like 28 days later, you could easily if you're a stupid person, you could dismiss and be like, this movie looks bad.
03:05:42
Speaker
You know, like that. It looks kind of shitty because it like in terms of like the the visual quality, it's like, no, actually, it looks fucking awesome. Boom. Or you're complete intellectual and you say, this movie looks shitty. It's awesome. Or were you just accept it as it is. I think it's good that it was shot on a Game Boy Color.
03:06:03
Speaker
Good. yeah Hey, hey, why hasn't anybody done that yet? You know, like, like you joke, but like, why not? Right. And do the rig that Boyle had with the iPhones on years where you have like the row of Game Boys. Yes.
03:06:20
Speaker
And, and, and also have it. So not only are they recording video, but they're also like hooked up with that device that allowed you for you to print your screen.
03:06:30
Speaker
almost Paper. Yeah. yeah You're able to like see it that way as an image. And then you can make it as a like a flip book. Yeah. ah That's incredible. ah Boyle, if you're listening, do that for the third.
03:06:45
Speaker
Do that for the epic of the book. We have other ideas. ro Yeah. ah So he that's the more advantageous thing. If he's listening already, like, hey, come on. We got, that's just a sample, right? We can tell you all kinds of crazy shit you can shoot on that you would have never even thought. I bet you never even considered the Motorola Razr.
03:07:06
Speaker
That camera actually has decent pixels on it. You know, like like shit like that. that that the The thing with going back to like the Oscar potential of 20 years later, it's not even going to be nominated for a single film, right? No, it won't be. It's a zombie movie. They'll be like, yeah, it's not serious.
03:07:27
Speaker
However, it will always exist within people's top 10 lists. It will always be a movie that people return to over the years and be like, hey, if you're trying to find like the best zombie movies, you should watch 28 years later.
03:07:41
Speaker
The thing about 28 years later, separate from the Bone Temple and all that stuff, is that it will be as impactful as 28 Days Later because it does something different with the genre that means something more than just the gore.
03:07:55
Speaker
Um... Danny Boyle is a genius and so is Alex Garland when he wants to be. And ah
Top Films of the Year Discussion
03:08:01
Speaker
they finally came together to make something that's the best of each other.
03:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, because like, even if, yes, there is a sequel tease and in the last five minutes, but the movie itself is a complete statement. I completely disagree with people who are like, yeah, it kind of feels incomplete. I'm like, the the kid has an arc. We see the completion of that arc in the movie. Like, it's going to continue in the sequel and probably go in some fucked up directions. But like, we get a full story. You know that the last five minutes of 28 Years Later is good because it inspired a Weapons is Transphobic-esque burnout crash out ah from somebody who completely misunderstood the intention of the ending of 28 Years. Yeah, and that Garland didn't have the right to depict Jimmy Savile or something. or i don't even remember what it was. Fuck fuck the state of Jimmy Savile if they were, you know, he trying to get some money off that. is At that point, it's like...
03:08:59
Speaker
Yeah, you got have you got to give it to them. You know, like they got your ass. But you but theyre with what they did in them. That ending's so fucking good. That's a good filter for for people who are weak. And they're like, i don't know. though And the movie was good at an ending. that It got kind of weird. I mean, the ending got fucking awesome.
03:09:17
Speaker
I think it is a step further and say the ending completes the movie. I i think the ending is not out of place at all. And I think it's totally in line with what the film had set up prior. Yeah. So it's like when that happens, I'm just like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, you did you not watch the movie i watch I just watched? I feel like this makes total sense that this happened.
03:09:35
Speaker
I just want to rewatch 20 years later. and i was just like, yeah, it's a fucking good movie. Like recently I've been kind of like doing the whole like, hey, what's what's what are my favorite movies of the year? You know, ah like ah I'm not sure. Like I'm planning on doing one of those like, ah you know, best of the year montages. i've ah've I've been like, you know, planning it for, I was originally going to do it last year.
03:10:01
Speaker
And I was like, you know what? No, I'm going to do it this year. I'm going to do it right. So like I'm doing it this year and I've been doing the whole like listing of the movies and all that stuff.
Resurgence of Romantic Comedies
03:10:11
Speaker
And I had forgotten to put 28 years later on the list. Right.
03:10:16
Speaker
I was like, Oh, I was like, Oh no, I wrote all these other movies. don't know. Where am I going to put 28 years later? It's at number five. Like, like that, that's a movie that I'm going to always return to. Like that's but like the the, I think mine, I also have it at five currently. I mean, there's a lot of ones this year I still need to catch up with, but I feel like my top five is pretty secure. okay what what is your top five? I felt that I had seen you post it not too long ago, and I was like, this is interesting. Number one, it was just an accident.
03:10:49
Speaker
Two, sinners. Three, one battle after another. Four, cloud. And five, 20 years later. Okay, so so let's so this is a comparison, right? And and you laugh when you hear mine.
03:11:03
Speaker
ah If I had like so I'd pick you is number one where you laugh. ah Cloud, number two. behalf Number three, the same as you. One ah one battle after another. So, you know huh oh yeah Number four is weapons.
03:11:19
Speaker
Okay. Is 28 years later. That's not a laugh because I have weapons pretty high. It's just, it's hard because there's a lot, this is a really good year. There's a new Cronenberg movie that I really liked and I have that at 14. You know, like that's not even in my top 10. The Shrouds isn't in my top 10. My number 11.
03:11:40
Speaker
Yeah, I'm like, Cronenberg didn't make the top 10? What the fuck is going on? but Kiss of the Spider Woman is a better movie than the film that David Cronenberg made this year. That's crazy to me. That's me. I have split spill higher than Cronenberg. I should be a shot.
03:11:58
Speaker
ah People should think about that. Let's stay on topic a bit. Wake Up Dead Man is higher than The Shrouds for me. I also. Man is my number eight. Wake Up Dead Man's my number nine. Well, again, we're sabbatical, sabbatical.
03:12:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, like the big the thing is, is that um I feel as though... Have you seen The Ballad of Wallace Island? I feel as though we talked about this already. I love that movie. Yeah, we did. No, never mind.
03:12:26
Speaker
That's so bad. I'm never going sleep. No, no, no, no. It's all good. that' That's my 13. I a 13. There it is... thing is is it's all Actually, you know, I'm going to throw this out there just so you know where it is.
03:12:40
Speaker
Splitsville is at 17. Yeah, so it's like, I know you love that movie a lot more than I.D., but like, I still love it, but it's there. you know has the i like
Impact of Streaming on Theatrical Releases
03:12:50
Speaker
There is a bit of the recency bias of when you really vibe with a new movie, you vote but I feel like that it's going to hold. like if Even if it drops a little bit from like even and not in being in the top 10, I'll still be like, that's one of my like an important movie from this year that I'm going to continually revisit and always recommend to people. I want to tell you this just so you know where I stand. um
03:13:15
Speaker
The two movies that are above it, right? ah The first one, Universal Language. You know, maybe maybe not. You've seen that movie. I haven't seen that one yet. Yeah, you should check it out. ah Canadian cinema, you know, so I'll always, you know, shout it out.
03:13:29
Speaker
ah The comedy that I felt was better than... You muted yourself. I realized that I hit them the thing right as I was about to say what I was going to say, so that it's even more dramatic. You, like, self-censored yourself. It was like, wow, what's this movie? the The comedic movie that I found funnier than Splitsville was The Naked Gun. Oh, Naked Gun is hilarious. Like, in terms of just, like, a purely, like, joke ratio...
03:13:52
Speaker
Naked Gun is probably like the funniest thing of of the year. Splitsville is as high as it is because like well I didn't expect the like it to emotionally resonate in the way that it did. And then also that it it's a fucking well-shot movie with like really good fight choreography. So I'm like, oh, okay. Just for on those technical levels. like i Because I did...
03:14:16
Speaker
Like, those are all bonuses. Like, a movie being funny and sweet is good, but then it's like, oh, you actually fucking put in the work here. And I also just have to say, like, Adria, Adria Arjano, Arjana, I should say, right? Like, if you were to ask me right now, like, who is your celebrity crush, right? I feel like she is the hottest person in Hollywood right now, right? I was already the head over heels from, like, ah because season two of Andor was this year. So I was already like, oh, my God, the the heart...
03:14:48
Speaker
in my eyes for for her and then splits bill seeing the hot girl like be like dorky it fucks up my brain and there's like a wiring like I start short circuiting like what?
03:15:03
Speaker
she's doing like the phrase shit at the end is yeah right? um but sorry you left out Hitman did you see Hitman? oh yeah that wasn't this year though yeah but I loved Hitman yeah Sorry, like like i like we were talking about her, so I wasn't sure. Like when we were talking about, like, you know. I was just talking about stuff this year that I was going gaga for her over. Yo, she's fucking so hot. Hitman's great. Hitman is about as perfect of a movie as you could want it to be in my books. like I mean, also fuck fuck Netflix for that one because that would have played like gangbusters. Like that would have. Well, that would well you say that. I saw that movie in a theater. And guess what?
03:15:41
Speaker
You're right. Like I saw that movie in a theater with like six or seven people in it. And they played like it was a fucking packed crowd. Like everybody in that theater was on the same page.
03:15:52
Speaker
You're absolutely right. It would have single-handedly brought back rom-coms like permanently. Like there's been ones that like, like, oh, that other Glenn Powell one with Sidney Sweeney, like made some money just because people are thirsty for it. Like, I don't need, I've never I haven't even seen that movie. It's probably not good, but like people just want rom-com. So like. That movie is not so bad. I need to come out and defend it.
03:16:14
Speaker
I don't think it's so bad. i Like people have been more harsh on it than me. I think that they have good chemistry and Glenn Powell is way better than she is in it. I'll throw that at her. I mean, that makes sense. That all tricks. Like the thing is, Cindy Sweeney is doing the whole like, see, like, you want me to do this?
03:16:31
Speaker
And he and he's playing it perfectly. Like he's playing like Tom Hanks with the looks of Tom Cruise, you know? interest i but That's why I'm on board with Glenn Powell and his whole deal. I think that he's actually, you know, he's got the stuff.
03:16:47
Speaker
He's got the stuff. I just don't like in terms of like an actual Tom Cruise successor, like in terms of like, well, yeah, no, no. why I mean, there is no one to one for anyone. No one else can be Tom, but in terms of like, just in terms of like the kind of charisma in stage presence of the, of like, I, I get more Tom vibes for watching Austin Butler run around and caught stealing from like, No, no, no, no, no. no there's There's one clear answer for me. the The true successor to Tom Cruise, and I say this without any irony, is Michael B. Jordan.
03:17:25
Speaker
Michael B. Jordan is very clearly the next Tom Cruise. And the only reason he's not considered that way is because every Tom Cruise era is a white guy, right? But when you think about it, like Michael B. Jordan's career much more clearly resembles Tom Cruise in terms of like the moves he's making and the and the, you know, impact of his career.
03:17:45
Speaker
I think is the... And they all hit. Has he ever... He's never been in something that... I mean, I'm not counting... um he did He did that movie, like, Mercy, I think it was, where he was, like, a lawyer, and that didn't work, and he also did, like, a Tom Clancy movie that didn't work. The Tom Clancy one was Amazon, but that doesn't count. That movie
Authentic Storytelling in Cultural Films
03:18:04
Speaker
is funny because it was supposed to be the start of, like, an MCU for Tom Clancy. Like, if there's a post-credit scene where he meets with... ah who's that that British guy. He meets with Jamie Bell and Jamie Bell's like, that's right. I'm putting together a team, Rainbow.
03:18:22
Speaker
like but he just says Rainbow. Like, it's like, if if if you don't know what Rainbow Six is, that sounds there was sounds so dumb. Like some spec ops team, a guy's like, and I'm going to call it Rainbow. We're going woke.
03:18:36
Speaker
We've got the wokest soldiers you can imagine. re color We've got an asexual person on this team. How many asexual people do you know? well now Now I actually want to see that movie. They should they should they should follow up and and make that. Yes.
03:18:51
Speaker
Cash in on woke. cash Nobody is truly cash in on woke in an appropriate way. It's always been like, let's cash in on woke through the prism of lib. Why don't we get like...
03:19:02
Speaker
we There was that movie that was called like Drag of the Living Dead or something like that with Katie O'Brien. Like it was like some kind of like zombie movie within ah setting. I know what you're talking about, but I'm trying to remember the name. what ah Did like a relative Romero make that or something? Yes. His his daughter made that movie. Queens of the Dead.
03:19:24
Speaker
Queens of the Dead. That's what it was. What I wanted to get at was that exploitation, modern gen ah genre stuff, horror, all that stuff should reflect a movie like that rather than like Roger Corman these days. Because the majority of people feel as though they're not represented in media um in terms of like, you know, hyper-specificity.
03:19:46
Speaker
And if you're going to hyper-specificity thing, do it from the prism of something that has no money, right? Because at least then it's not going to have the corporate thing that's looming over it. And then you Ghostbusters 2016, as we always talk about. um and the the the the The movie that changed everything is I like. the the the when When I watched that movie, ah it was...
03:20:10
Speaker
ah Like it it had already flopped in the reception to it. It happened. But the 2016 election hadn't happened. And I watched that with my dad and my dad was like, that's what everyone's ah all angry about. You're like, ah Trump's going to win. And he called it right then.
03:20:28
Speaker
Did you know that Shea McKenna used to date Barry Weiss? I think I did know that, but then my brain pushed it out of my head because it was incongruous of like, no, that can't be right. Now to go a step further, did you know that Cara Delvingne used to date Amber Heard? I did know that. I don't know why went into this relationship rabbit hole, but I saw dots to be connected and I did it.
03:20:54
Speaker
Well, you know, Barry Weiss is in in the... and Against our will, she's in the ecosphere. you it's like we don't have to talk about her and we're not going to. that's But, it's you know, she slips into your mind against your will. One would say that Cara Delavine is the Barry Weiss of ah Hollywood. No one wants her around, but she still persists.
03:21:20
Speaker
Yes. Mick Dallion keeps inviting her around, but here she is, you know, like. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good that's good pull. Okay, so Wake Up Dead Man. i think we voly i was going to do it if you didn't. like this and video this to To bring it back to Wake Up Dead Man, um it should have had ah a Nicki Minaj song over the credits. That is a flaw. don't know I went with Nicki Minaj.
03:21:47
Speaker
I feel like like there are more appropriate people, but then also I like i thought about... like yeah like Starships, like imagining that over Wake Up Dead Man, it just fit for me. Great movie.
03:21:58
Speaker
Um, yeah, i don't know if I got anything else say about it. Um, It's just I'm going to watch this many more times and it's likely to rise in rank of of my Rian Johnson rankings. um I mean, I have this as this is my number one Knives Out. Like i it's pretty it's pretty like I still ah love the first one. Like it's not like this is.
03:22:26
Speaker
i just I just feel like he's improved upon all the things that I liked in that one. But yeah, I'm still always going to love the first one. If you were to tell me that Rian Johnson was making an Agatha Christie riff, where it's going to invert like the murder mystery genre itself and comments upon modern day...
03:22:47
Speaker
I, like back in 2019 or 2018, whatever, the first Knives Out movie, the movie I imagined was Wake Up Dead Man. um The movie I got was Knives Out, you know, and Knives Out was a lot of fun.
03:23:00
Speaker
But Wake Up Dead Man felt like the movie I was waiting for from Rian Johnson from this franchise, which makes it all the more exciting that it came after a movie like Last Son, you wish I felt like was...
03:23:11
Speaker
the exact opposite of what I wanted. So, ah you know, to kind of round out how I feel about this movie, I feel as though this is not just Rian Johnson returning to basics and, you know, having some heart in his filmmaking again.
03:23:24
Speaker
I feel as though this Rian Johnson evolving from where he left off from Looper and now he's in a better place as a filmmaker and it can only go up from here, which is such an exciting feeling to have when you watch a movie made by somebody that you respect. Yeah.
03:23:40
Speaker
um I really love this movie, and ah you know while I may not return to Knives Out and ah Glass Onion as much as other people may, um I will watch this movie many times. I mean, the first one just a good comfort watch. This movie can be... like it It's entertaining that it can play in that way of of being rewatched, but it also hits on a more visceral, emotional level, and that's going to always...
03:24:09
Speaker
kind of be more valuable to me, like movies that make me feel something, you know, like that's a, that was a lot of my criteria for like when I was making, you know, figuring out where things rank this year. I'm like, well, this movie made me cry. So that's going to be higher. You know, like I'm like, if a movie almost brought me to tears or something, even if something, I'm about another movie where i'm like, we have, that's probably technically better, but this other movie may be really fucking sad. So this, I'm putting that higher. And with Wake Up Dead Man, like this was the closest I ever got to crying in a Knives Out movie.
03:24:42
Speaker
Right? like that that That phone call scene almost got me. Right. Like I feel as though with the other films, they're commenting upon emotion and this one is actually engaging with emotion.
03:24:55
Speaker
So like that's where it edges out for me, you know, that it actually feels like an honest expression rather than a commentary upon expression. um Yeah, this is like, well, I know they were kind of winding down here.
03:25:10
Speaker
This is kind of like one of the best things that Rian Johnson's ever made. And it's going to be one of those things that like when they talk about the Knives Out movies, they're probably going to point to this one as like, this one was great, which in sharp contrast to the Perot films that they made um with, ah you know, Guinness and all that, like the first one was the best, Murder on the Orient Express. I feel like people are going to remember Wake Up Dead Man and they're going to kind of use that as the Wizard of Stone to enjoy the other films. Yeah, i
Cultural Icons' Impact on Entertainment
03:25:38
Speaker
unless he makes more and the other ones are better because, you know, like i said, that he's only going to, ah the only direction to go is up. I mean, that's not true. He could he could regress and and he like loses it again, but I don't think that's going to happen.
03:25:53
Speaker
What if you retired Natasha Lyonne from Poker Face so then he could replace Benoit Blanc with Natasha Lyonne? That would be hell world. get have a really concerned look on my face. Like when I said that, it was instantaneous. Like you were like, that that that was disgust. Like you just told me like a pet had died or something. It's like, oh, joking. It's as if I told you that Carl Reiner had died. Not not Rob. but oh hey yorkla Wow. Very. Yeah.
03:26:25
Speaker
a carl reiner um now very yeah Yeah, left a huge impact in the comedy world. Writer in the Dick Van Dyke show, Dick Van Dyke, who just turned 100 years old. Get over it, man. Stop rubbing it in our faces. I mean, I do like that he seems for a fucking hundred spry as hell, but like that he has openly been like, yeah, I'm glad going die soon don't have to live through this Trump shit.
03:26:53
Speaker
Yeah. Every time I see Dick Van Dyke, I'm like, that's what that's the space that Betty White was supposed to hold, you know, and it makes me upset, you know. So like there's a part of me that's like, you know, good for you, Dick Van Dyke. But there was somebody who could have done this better. You know what I mean? I don't know. i I really like Dick Van Dyke. So I'm not I'm like I'm not going to turn on him. I'll let you have it. I'm not, I'm not, we're we're talking about elderly man that I'm undervaluing. And I, I take that, you know, I will own that, you know, you seem to watch more of the Dick Van Dyke show and then ah rewatch Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and Bye Bye Birdie like ah a few hundred times.
03:27:36
Speaker
I'm going to put my foot down and say, i will never watch Chitty Chitty Bang Bang again. yeah You don't need Very bad movie. You don't need to. You can just watch Mary Poppins. He's way better than that.
03:27:46
Speaker
There was a movie I watched recently with Dick Van Dyke, and I want to get the name of the movie because I want recommend it to you. um and And it was definitely... Night of the Museum? he was Yeah, he's great in it. Sorry, you you took it you took the words right out of my mouth.
03:28:02
Speaker
ah Sorry. Let me just find this title. I want to make sure it's right. Oh, no, no, no. That's not it. Just bear with me for a moment.
03:28:13
Speaker
Just one moment. I'm so close to the truth. Dick Tracy. Man, I wish. If I were talking about Dick Tracy, Dick Tracy, Tracy, that that that a angry video game nerd sketch, that would be me. Dick Tracy, Dick Tracy. Yeah.
03:28:30
Speaker
That's what it was. What a way to go. Have you ever seen that movie? What way to go. No. Yeah, so it's... 64. It's a musical about this a widower, and it's played by Shirley MacLaine, one of the hottest women ever. um And it's, you know, it's her being with all these different guys, right? And all those different guys have their own, like, musical numbers and all that stuff. Some of the guys that she marries in this movie, I want to list it so for you.
03:29:01
Speaker
Paul Newman. Robert Mitchum, Dean Martin, was you so ah and Dick Van Dyke. This is like the Avengers. you just so Yeah, up like hot dudes from the 60s and the late 50s, you know? like that that That is the realm, right?
03:29:18
Speaker
um And this movie was very charming. I loved it. Shirley MacLaine is the best. And Dick Van Dyke in that movie plays a workaholic and Dick Van Dyke in that role was probably the most can convenient ah sorry convincing that I'd ever seen in any of his roles. I feel like even now in his 100-year-old age, he gives off the impression of a workaholic. um And I'm not sure if I see much peace behind those those eyes. Yeah, i think I feel like I agree with that. ah Oh, the full movie is on YouTube, so I'm probably going to watch that very soon. I mean, visually, it looks, i just just just like from the autoplay on IMDb, like some of those, set there's like a set that's like all pink, and du i she just walks through it and sits down looking at it. She has pink hair it, you know? It's awesome. Yeah.
03:30:13
Speaker
and the And to go back to the Dick Van Dyke thing, Dick Van Dyke is the first guy she marries. So, like, okay if we're if you're in it just for Dick Van Dyke, like, you will get your picks. Oh, there's a monkey in that? Fuck yeah. I'm watching this shit.
03:30:27
Speaker
and Paul Newman is probably the funniest part of the movie. And then Robert Mitchum is, like, the surprise of the movie is the way I'll phrase it. Okay. Okay. That was a nice submission. It is a delight. That is a delightful movie. Also, shout out people looking for a good Christmas movie. oh Night of the Hunter, technically. yet Christmas movie. Again, a bit a movie that ah appropriately and without varnish...
03:30:54
Speaker
ah shows theology in a way that feels very honest. Because it even if like the villain is the scary, evil preacher, but then there
Debate Over Remaking Classic Films
03:31:05
Speaker
is the counterpoint of like, no, this is like true faith of the the older woman at the end. and like she is like She becomes the one adult that these kids can trust. Because that's like the thing that always hammers home i when i'm on rewatch where I'm like... Because that movie is basically just like like a like a fable of these kids going on on this odyssey. But it's like every single adult fucking fails them or is trying to kill some of them until they get to this woman at the end. I'm surprised that ah Del Toro remade Nightmare Alley before he remade ah fucking that movie. you know Do you know who is remaking Night of the Hunter?
03:31:43
Speaker
Who is remaking Night of the Hunter? Fucking Charlie Day? Scott Derrickson. Oh, fuck off. No, like, I like Scott Derrickson, but like, no, he he's the wrong choice. That's just so wrong.
03:31:56
Speaker
Fucking the balls. ah No, it's the lack of to make that, you know, like, look like Scott Derrickson, you only make that shit if you have nothing left to say is the way i view it, you know?
03:32:08
Speaker
And also, I love C. Robert Cargill. If C. Robert Cargill has anything to do with that, that's a denouncement for me. Yeah, that's crazy. might You You froze. No, because I was just like, guy I was like, I wanted to make sure I have that right. I didn't end on some some false information where I was like, yeah, Scott Derrickson is about to commit some blasphemy. He was like, no, no, that that was announced. Yeah.
03:32:33
Speaker
with With Cargill, they're gonna... I mean, you know I've never read the novel. ah like If there's some new take from the book that like stuff that wasn't in the movie, you can just call it something different though. Like I'm fine with going back to the source material and do it, you know, like the thing is drastically different from the thing from another world. Like it's closer to what was in the original like short story or whatever. But also they did change the title a little bit. It's just called the thing.
03:33:01
Speaker
ah So what are they going to do? Right. They're going to put fucking two creatures this time. time.
03:33:14
Speaker
There's two creatures this time, but they're both Ethan Hawke. So what's going to happen? I'm the loved one. Hey, why? and then they fuse together and become one guy. You know, like they do like one of those like Dragon Ball Z. The fusion dance.
03:33:27
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. ah the the thing about them doing that movie is um the reason invoke Del Toro is because there's a level of mysticism and ah hard to pin down reality in that movie. And I feel as though Scott Derrickson is about like treating the ghosts as reality, which like you don't want that for a movie like Night Hunter. A lot of that movie is about like how mysterious and strange reality is. It should feel ethereal instead of just trying to, like, you're just going to do it, like, straight and, like just make it completely grounded. Like, steve Gordon Levick should direct it.
03:34:08
Speaker
He would
Joseph Gordon-Levitt's Career Choices
03:34:09
Speaker
do it. What if the preacher had, like, a porn artist? Well, they give beatings for falling, too, you know. I mean, I don't know. Just put him in something.
03:34:20
Speaker
Or have him. What is is is he? What's JGL? What's he doing? what What is he up to? he yeah I don't know. He's probably like fucking funneling money for someone. He was a voice in Wake Up Dead Man, like on the baseball game that the that was on TV. Disrespectful cameo that Chris Grubbavit could have given him.
03:34:42
Speaker
Like... like Well, that's what it feels like the relationship you laid out where he's calling Rian Johnson, begging to be in a thing. And then Rian Johnson throws him some scraps of like, you fine, you can be a stormtrooper, like a random voice of a stormtrooper in The Last Jedi. Like, i okay.
03:34:59
Speaker
Just stop. feels like we've outgrown each other. Stop calling me at three in the morning. Yeah. You play Finn. He's already been cast. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
03:35:11
Speaker
They filmed a whole other movie with him. each kid It is not possible. Do you think that he saw, like, just Barrow in The Last Jedi got, like, really upset? Because even that cameo is like, like oh, that's a guy a great cameo. He gets to play, like, Space Bond for one scene.
03:35:28
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. He's gambling. You know, that's cool. Right. Do do you think that like this shows Grimamba was watching it? He's like, you me. oh I could have been that guy. Why was I working with Oliver Stone? you know During the not good period.
03:35:48
Speaker
Far past this JFK day. Far past. Okay, here are JGL's next of four projects. Something called K-Troop. Sounds like some... Okay, a major major Louis Merrill fights off the Ku Klux Klan after the American Civil War.
03:36:05
Speaker
so of white man fighting the Ku Klux Klan, finally. That's the story. That's never been told before. There's actually a good Reagan movie where he's like a da I think, who's like going against the Ku Klux Klan. And but to portray that the Klan is dangerous, you know, of course, they have to be like, well, they're trying to kill this white woman to witness the crime they did. So you're like, oh, that's serious.
03:36:28
Speaker
You've got to fucking stop these people. They're to hurt a white woman. Have you ever seen ah the William Shatner, Roger Corman film, The Intruder? um This is an easy recommend for you because I know you would be into this movie.
03:36:41
Speaker
um So William Shatner's best performance is in this movie, right? And he plays... Better than his Twilight Zone episodes. Okay. No, this is better. This is better.
03:36:51
Speaker
Easily better. um Better than the Star Trek episode where Kirk and the jealous ex swap bodies with him and he was playing like a girl in his body. Anything you can imagine, he is better in this movie. Okay. She's really good in that episode. The intruder is about him being ah a traveling town to town white nationalist who like he introduces hate to communities. Right.
03:37:14
Speaker
And
Classic Films' Relevance in Contemporary Issues
03:37:15
Speaker
like this is the one Roger Corman film where he was like, I've got like a political statement to say, you know. So like ah it's it's amazing. It is like his Elmer Gantry. Have you ever seen that movie? Yeah, this looks good.
03:37:30
Speaker
it It is amazing. It is an amazing movie. Like, I can't believe that it exists. But I'm throwing it out there because William Shatner is in it. And ah it exists within this, like, you know, false charlatan kind of like, you know, we're going to say the things that we mean and then they don't mean anything, you know.
03:37:48
Speaker
And then also you're a fan of like Sparrow Creek and shit, you know. Like, I feel like the see this would be in that realm, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Also, you've seen Soft and Quiet. No. Okay. So yeah my boy's got two new movies out and I haven't seen any of them. Who's your boy? The guy who made Soft and Quiet?
03:38:07
Speaker
No way. Am I could re am i ah confused? I thought, is that James Badstiel has like a couple movies that he's in. Is so is he not in Soft and Quiet? I'm not sure. Let me check. Because like that movie is...
03:38:20
Speaker
No, never mind. I'm confusing it with something. the movie He's in The Violent Ends and King Ivory. Those are in a third movie he did this year. What the fuck is this? Do you know what Soft and Quiet is Oh, is it? So, like, again, going back to, like, Sparrow Creek, right? You've told me, we've talked about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:38:41
Speaker
I need to see this. White nationalist women. White nationalist women. It's crazy. This is a crazy movie. Yeah, I need to see that. like are you like This is a movie about white nationalism. You'll fucking love this. No, no.
03:38:55
Speaker
But you say, like, like, you like those kinds of like deconstructions, like, yeah, it was out there. No, I do. you You get it. You get it. But it just like on the servers would be like, no, I'm reading my cough. I'm going train it. I'm shaking my head. So, no i don't deserve so you know, I You gotta to let everyone know. you gotta to let everyone know. You can't, you can't leave it in a mystery, you know?
03:39:18
Speaker
Like the the real question would be like, why do I know about these? You know, like ah i got to do some work, you know? like Okay. So the writer Black Swan is doing another JGL's next movie.
03:39:32
Speaker
It's called Pendulum. A couple journeys to a retreat in New Mexico seeking healing. Patrick grows skeptical of the retreat's leader as Abigail falls under his influence. They wonder if the group's practices offer genuine feeling healing or offer a terrifying truth.
03:39:47
Speaker
This is a remake of Pit and the Pendulum. We were just talking about fucking Roger Corman. ah Fucking, he's doing another Pit and the Pendulum movie. Hyman, and Mark Hyman is is remaking the Pit and the Pendulum.
03:40:01
Speaker
Huh. Did I get it right? i Yeah, i that seems like that's what this is. It's called Pendulum, so. oops Holy shit, I just nailed that. I just fucking no-scoped it.
03:40:12
Speaker
That's what that is. Norman Reedus is in it. Presumably he'll show up on a bike and be like, eh. Oh, no, no, no, no. he He's the guy who owns the spot. That's what that is. Joseph Gordon-Levitt's the guy who comes in. He's the guy who owns the the but my problem Probably. It's just, it's just, I, he's doesn't, he's not, uh, uh, fucking, Norman Reedus doesn't change his wardrobe or style. Like he's just going to show up dirty, like from the set of whatever walking dead death spinoff from, yeah. the Yeah. Death Stranding. He's just going to be covered in the goop from Death Stranding.
03:40:47
Speaker
He's
Movie Watchlist Organization Methods
03:40:48
Speaker
like, yeah, i'm I'm here to do Pit and Pendulum. haven't showered in years. That's the only way you can show up to a Pit and the Pendulum set. That's kind of, that's an a more interesting remake than remaking Night of the Hunter. oh Yeah, 100%. Like him remaking Pit and the Pendulum would be like Stuart Gordon's remake of Castle Freak or or adaptation of Castle Freak. Have you ever seen that movie?
03:41:11
Speaker
Castle Freak's a pretty interesting one. It's got fucking, what's his face from ah Reanimator. ah Jeffrey Combs. Jeffrey Combs. Yeah. The great. And ah barbara Barbara Crampton, I believe, is his wife in that movie. Love her. Yeah. Really great movie. I got a lot of stuff I need to Same. You know, I've got like fucking 30 movies from this year that I'm like, all right. Yeah. This year. And then like others, just other stuff that I need to see. The way that I've sorted it out, it's like all the other stuff, as you put it, you know, like things throughout the years. I've got it open in one browser and then I've got another browser open for all of the new releases from this year I need to catch up on. And like, that's my way of like a watch list is just like, OK, here are all the movies. They're ready whenever I am. i just need
Podcast Plugs and Upcoming Streams
03:41:58
Speaker
to knock them out. you know? Yeah. Hell yeah. Well, let's get to it then.
03:42:03
Speaker
And on that note, why don't you put that evil on me. rick Um, do you, I feel like we're, we're, we're ready to wrap up here. i mean, do do you have any, uh, plugs you want to do? You just raised your hand.
03:42:15
Speaker
Yeah, that that was an accident. I pulled a U. ah i'm ah i have nothing really to plug. ah Like, I feel like I plug the same shit every time I'm on here, you know? Like, I got the two cents for it. Yeah, well, plug it again, bitch. We're to do it again. But...
03:42:33
Speaker
I got the Two Says Creative Podcast. We're going to do fucking top 10 of the year list. I'm going to be on that shit. Get ready for me there. And then we've got fucking Infilms You Trust. We're going to be recording the fucking ah last episode of Larry Peslid retrospective.
03:42:49
Speaker
Get ready for that in January, folks. Yeah, and the just stay tuned on this feed and follow our Twitch on the JuiceTube. We'll do another stream, but again, I promise. Bye.