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MONSTER Among US: Herb Coddingham's Assult on Alecia & Monica, and others
126 Plays1 year ago
Listener Discretion Advised - Please see Trigger Warnings below. This episode Faith is telling us of the absolute hell two young girls, Alecia & Monica, find themselves on the way to living their dreams. It is a brutal destruction of lives but so important to remember the victim, not only what they live through, but our treatment of them afterwards. Please remember as hard as it is to listen to the details in this episode, it is harder to live through them. Child abuse and trafficking are a VERY REAL problem in our world, and until we rise up and shine light on these issues, they will continue. Monsters are VERY real – while they might not be under your bed they very well could be behind you in line at the grocery store, live next door to you or couch your child’s little league team. Protect your children and learn ways to help, even if it is with kindness and support to the victims who live.
TRIGGER WARNINGS – mental, psychological and sexual abuse against minors.
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Transcript
Introduction and Humor
00:00:04
Speaker
Well, good day to you. How come it's the morning night or... anyway. Hi! Thanks for tuning in to... Yeah, welcome to the times of the day. Thanks for tuning in to Twisted Tales. I'm Faith and I'm my awful co-host over there. Lisa. Can't be replaced because you people don't send in resumes, but we're glad you're here. You're gonna have to let it go, Faith. It's just us. I know. Nobody else wants to put up with me.
00:00:30
Speaker
Nope. Um, yeah, he wants to teach you how to read.
Trigger Warnings in True Crime
00:00:35
Speaker
So hard for nothing. Lord. OK, well, um, I've got a pretty long episode for you tonight, so we're not going to we're not going to icebreakers kind of non-existent. Yeah, we're not going to banter. You don't want to listen to us talk more than you have to. But I am. I posted if you go to our socials at Instagram or Facebook, I posted a meme a while back.
00:01:00
Speaker
And it is, I don't know, got a very glorious mustache. And it says, when the true crime documentary warns, viewers might find the following scene distressing. And his response is, I know what I'm about, son. And a lot of people commented on that, but they didn't like it when podcasters or even documentaries did that. You're coming for true crime, right? That's why we're all here. Yep.
00:01:25
Speaker
So, you know it's gonna swap out and do a lot of trigger warnings often because you know it's about rape, robbery, murder, mayhem. You know what we're about. You didn't come in here to listen to the warm and fuzzy. So, we're gonna test that theory on if you actually mean that today.
00:01:43
Speaker
And as opposed to usual, I am gonna give you some trigger warnings. This episode's awful. I'm gonna go into detail as literally as much as I think necessary, and you'll understand when we get to the point. I will warn you when we get to the point. This does involve minors, and it involves sexual assault, and just general awfulness. So, there's a trigger warning. So your trigger warning is for me, then?
00:02:13
Speaker
No, you don't get a trigger warning. You know how I feel. You know how I feel. I do. But here's the deal. About the minor thing.
Exposing Evil: A Moral Duty?
00:02:25
Speaker
Neither Lisa or I like talking about any kind of psychological, physical, mental, or sexual abuse towards a child.
00:02:38
Speaker
Correct. We both strongly and firmly hold to the fact that there's a special place in hell for people that do that to children. Yep.
00:02:46
Speaker
But here's also the deal. I am a very strong believer in what is kept in the dark, is allowed to grow and prosper in the dark. And as long as evil is not looked in the face, it'll continue to be a faceless, just nameless thing that continues to grow and fester in our world. I agree. I think Sound of Freedom did a really good job of calling out that evil. I still haven't seen that. I haven't either, I want to.
00:03:14
Speaker
But I have a child and I can't praise it yet because I've not seen it yet. Both of my brothers, apparently my other brother, I told you the one brother saw, the other brother went and saw it and said like, he couldn't even describe. But they did a really good job of calling it out. And I'm gonna get on the soap box real quick.
00:03:32
Speaker
um because that's my that's my stitch right so you guys know i love a good conspiracy theory absolutely i will crawl down to the deepest recesses of those rabbit holes my friends oh yeah you want to talk about lizard people i'm there want to talk about aliens also there whatever conspiracy theory you got i'm into and i'm gonna sit there listen to everything there is and we absolutely will more than likely laugh behind your back at some of them but it's not in a negative way
00:04:01
Speaker
No but on the other hand some of them I'm like that's a great point. I was just gonna say like some of them are like oh well yeah that's that happened. Here's one thing I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna throw some shade at a conspiracy theory and I've thrown shade to you two before.
Conspiracy Theories and Political Agendas
00:04:19
Speaker
When the election was going on prior to the election QAnon was huge right? Huge!
00:04:25
Speaker
And I got sucked into all that. Oh, geez. So many documentaries, so many podcasts.
00:04:32
Speaker
So here's the deal. And there's a lot of things Q and I talked about that I agreed with. And there's a lot of people said 100% hoax, yada, yada. The dream is- And there are some things that I legitimately, I giggled about. And I'm like, really guys? Because the deal is conspiracy theories are not the same, but let's go with this example of religion.
00:04:57
Speaker
You got a group of people that believe the same thing, but you always got that one wing that takes it too far and makes the whole religion look bad, right? Yeah, like those people that go to the marriages and funerals of other people, and they're like, you're going to burn any of her. Yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah. So you've got the people that show up and, you know, the, the Christians that show up or the quote unquote Christians that show up at everything to talk about how God hates you. Yeah. When, when God is, he might not like what decisions you make, but he loves everybody. Right. And then everyone gets lumped into the category of because you're a believer, you're a bigot. Yeah. You're crazy. Yes. And then you got, you've got Muslims. We know what they're, they're, you know, so every, they all run planes.
00:05:40
Speaker
but conspiracy theories are the same way you got a core group of people who believe something and then you got the one or two wing nuts that drag out everything but here's my deal on QAnon this is my issue with QAnon and I'll state it loudly to any Q person because you know what they have a lot of good theories and Sound of Freedom brought in a lot of things that was big in QAnon like the adrenochrome sitch and the child sex slavery correct that everybody was saying it's a bunch of crazy conspiracy theories now you got people who are saying no no and
00:06:06
Speaker
This has been my life. Like I rescued these. So you got all this, right? Right. And they're trying to debunk him now
Herb's Early Life and Traits
00:06:12
Speaker
saying he's one of the QAnon crazies, but whatever. Here's my problem with QAnon. I listened to the propaganda. I bought into a lot of propaganda. I'm not gonna lie to you. I did. As soon as the election was over and as soon as, no, it stayed around for a while. But when we all realized that we were stuck with Joe Biden,
00:06:33
Speaker
No one gave two single craps about the child sex trafficking anymore that QAnon shouted from the rooftops we needed to put an end to. That child sex slavery and child sexual abuse is not something to hang your hat on to push your agenda forward and when your agenda is done you let it drop.
00:06:53
Speaker
Well, it's not a gimmick. It's not a buy one get one half off sale promo when they talk about like child sex trafficking They call it sex trafficking for reasons. Yeah, and it's not just kids. Yeah. Yeah I mean we got way way way way way before any of this went down what I don't even remember what year it was Yeah, but your your dad the pastor of the church and Christine came come. Yeah, and I
00:07:17
Speaker
basically begging for people's help. Like we need help, financial help. We need... Because she does A1 ministries, right? A21. A21. And they help after people are set free from sex trafficking. They help rehabilitate them, get them counselors, get them shrinks, get them housing, clothing. And it was this huge deal, like you said, in the last election. And then it just...
00:07:39
Speaker
Now, all of a sudden, it's ruined its ugly head again. But that's my problem. That's why I said, guess what, guys? It's an election year. It's never gone away. Yeah. No, it doesn't go away. It's never gone away. But we only pull it out. We want someone to sing and dance like a little trained monkey to entertain the masses and get them to pay attention to us. Then we put it back on the shelf. And it's bigger than that. And I just said, like, it's another election year. We're heading up on 2024. Yeah. Now all this thing is, all this crap is coming back to life. Yeah. But it's not like,
00:08:08
Speaker
In my mind, as long as you keep only pulling it out and shining the light on it when you want people to look at you and then put it right back on the shelf, you're part of the problem. Absolutely. You might not be buying and selling flesh of humans, but you're contributing to the problem because you're just using it to help yourself. I was just going to say, your ignorance is causing harm. You're not making a financial gain on it, but you're making a personal gain off their suffering. And you're not doing anything to stop it unless it suits your needs.
00:08:35
Speaker
which you know what you can say that we're doing that too because we do a podcast but guess what we haven't made a single dime off this and we've spent money so absolutely but anyway just you know just to make everyone feel that I do donate when I have money yeah so I say all that to say
00:08:52
Speaker
This episode does deal with children. We don't like talking about children, but I will always talk about a child case now and then because I'm not gonna let these monsters just continue to work in the dark with absolutely no light shine on. I've got a kid, and even if I didn't, I'd still be as passionate about it, so. Well, just like a few weeks ago, I did that one case with that guy super recently. Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't like talking about it. I don't wanna talk about it. No. It grosses me out.
00:09:21
Speaker
It infuriates me. Yeah. It infuriates me. But you know what? If you guys have to listen to it, and it makes you uncomfortable, and it makes you mad, and it makes you disgusted, frickin' do something. And not just because it brings light to the other agenda you want light shed on.
00:09:36
Speaker
Write to your congresspeople, write to your senators, and continue to pound down the doors that we need stronger rules in place for children and stronger violations for predators. Just like what, Florida just now? Florida just changed theirs to the death penalty. If you're caught raping a child, Louisiana's always done it. Love me some Louisiana. But you know what? A lot of people just slap on the wrist and you move forward. And you know what? The age of consent will go down past my dead body. I will scream it to the rooftops and chain myself to any tree I need to. No.
00:10:05
Speaker
This is not a right-wing, left-wing, Republican, Democrat issue. This is a human rights violation. This is a care more about kids than you do about the freaking manatees that are becoming extinct. Because so is kids' hopes and dreams and their childhood. So why don't we give a damn about that instead of the animals? Sorry. So here's my first problem.
00:10:32
Speaker
Faith said damn. I did. And I get yelled at a lot for cursing because I don't know how to control myself. Did you say really bad words? Yes I do. I also get yelled at for these things. Thus, meaning I feel like Faith's already triggered. I'm very triggered. So I'm going to sit back idly maybe a little bit during this episode. I'm going to kind of watch her facial expressions and wonder if
00:10:59
Speaker
If I am, I might survive tonight. You will. You will. Okay. I just get really triggered that we as a, as a, as a human race care more about animals than we do about kids. Yeah, we do. Or just people in general, but you know, Hey, I said, I'm off my soapbox. I'm off my soapbox. So now that we've gone on and I rambled for 30 minutes, let's get into tonight's episode crap. 30 minutes already. No, it's been like 10, but I was exaggerating. I like to do that. All right. You had a tell time to them. Yep. Nope. Not going to do it. You ready?
00:11:29
Speaker
You're not ready. All right. No, I really like to just let's all take a deep breath and I will warn you when it gets bad. We got a little bit of some digging before we get there. All right. Herbert James Coddington. Was born in 1957. Lisa just looked up to the heavens so she knows this man.
00:11:49
Speaker
He grew up in a small town in New York and his family was reported to be pretty close. Mom and dad married happily. He had siblings, whole American dream, white picket fence type of sitch, right?
00:12:03
Speaker
His father worked as an electrical engineer at General Electric providing for his family. His mom worked part time as a dental hygiene assistant and then was there to raise her kids. Both parents super active in their kids' lives and in the community. His father was a member of the school board and his mom was an active volunteer slash participant.
00:12:26
Speaker
at the local church she went to so i mean literally all together very well-rounded family like there's no skeletons no beatings good good family we're talking about yeah just looks like a great family yeah the biggest point of contention in this family literally was the mother forcing her children to attend catholic church with her every sunday that she volunteered at
00:12:47
Speaker
It wasn't the kid's favorite pastime, Herbert, or he went by Herb. Herb really didn't like it, and he was especially pissed off because his father never had to go to church. His father was a Protestant, his wife respected that and didn't make him go.
00:13:02
Speaker
So he was- House divided. Yeah, but besides that, there were no issues. That was the biggest issue this family had, right? All right. So as a child, Herb started showing some pretty strong traits early on of an obsessive compulsive type disorder. It's reported that one of the examples given is he would legitimately follow his parents around the house.
00:13:31
Speaker
religiously and anytime they left room he'd turn off the lights like lights could not be left on and he over and over and they said anytime that if there was something he liked like whether it was a theory or a toy like he would obsess over this thing and he would turn it inside out if it was a toy he had to figure out the insides the outsides how to put it back together what made it work like he had to understand every single little thing about
00:13:59
Speaker
whatever he was interested in, and everyone had to know everything about it. Honestly, in my head, I'm thinking Sheldon. He had to know everything, and there was no rhyme or reason for what struck us fancy, but literally, he would see something, liked it, and he had to be an expert on it, and would not sleep until he knew everything. But besides that, he was just kind of a normal, eh, he was a kid.
00:14:27
Speaker
So in third grade, little Herb started carrying a briefcase to school and it contained an assortment of creepy crawly toys which he had made and he'd sell to other kids.
00:14:40
Speaker
Now I did not know what a creepy crawly toy was. I'm thinking like insects. It is. Okay. And when I describe it, you'll note it is actually saved a picture and I'll post it to our socials, but it's that toy and we had it back when we were little and I don't know, it was called like a factory or something like that. But basically it was like a plate of bugs and worm cutouts and you'd put like this gelatinous stuff in there and it would make a mold of these little creepy crawly. Yeah. Right.
00:15:06
Speaker
So he packed up his, he'd make all his little creepy crawlies, pack up his briefcase, bring it and sell it to his classmates. Smart character grade, yeah. And honestly, he excelled in school. He was extremely intelligent, like tested and had a reported IQ of 140.
00:15:23
Speaker
which is indicative of nearly our genius level and just for comparison sake Elon Musk's IQ is estimated at 155. Albert Einstein's was 160. This kid had 140. Yeah so he was real stupid. So very smart. Yeah. But unfortunately he was not super athletic nor did he like anything outside
00:15:48
Speaker
at all, like he wasn't a big outdoor person, which, you know, same. So I mean, realistically, most people with a really high IQ, they're normally like socially inept. Yeah. And not not so coordinated. Right. Like, I mean, I'm not trying to sound like mean. Right. Yeah. But like, you know, you always say like, oh, people have book smarts and they have street smarts. Yeah. Yeah. I've always fallen into the street smarts. Yeah. Well, he he took it to a bit extreme like in fourth grade when all the kids were out at recess playing.
00:16:17
Speaker
He didn't find kids to play with. He literally would spend his recess playing chess with the teachers. Okay. And he got along with the teachers better than he did the students, but he was so much smarter. I was just going to say like, so that that's what stimulated him. Yes. Was giving his brain a challenge. Yes. So, you know, he was, he was closer with the teachers, didn't ruin them any popularity contest, but honestly wasn't a big deal.
00:16:41
Speaker
So he did, he was a little socially inept, he had a lot going from him, and honestly he was pretty well liked, like no one really had a problem with him. All the teachers said he was very nice, he was very respectful, but he had this little thing. And it's hard to explain, like I know exactly how to explain it, but I'm not a doctor.
00:17:05
Speaker
When they're in class, like, he would just start yelling. Like, just, he would try to be answering and just be like... Like Tourette's, kind of? No. Like, he just couldn't contain himself. Like, he knew the answer, he had to see the answer. Just really impulsive. Yeah, impulsive, he'd yell, like they said yell, like yell, yell. And then if another student was trying to answer the question, he'd literally just yell over him. Like, he had to do it. He had to know it. He knew it. Me, me, me.
00:17:32
Speaker
But the teachers pretty much as a whole let it slide and didn't get him in trouble because they said he wasn't violent, he wasn't angry. It was almost like he couldn't contain himself. I mean, his arms are kind of going and he just has to get it out, get it out. So as he got into high school, he found a new obsession and that was health. Everything to do with health.
00:18:00
Speaker
And if it was not healthy or what he deemed healthy, he was venomously opposed. No junk food, no alcohol. You had to exercise. And out of everything health-wise, Herb hated smoking. So Herb would really not like me very much. Most people don't, but no, Herb would not like me. Did that get you off guard like I wasn't going to take that opportunity? That was great.
00:18:28
Speaker
But he, he was obsessed. So this kid, it's 1971 at this point, kids in ninth grade. And he is, like today I would describe him as like a roots and berry type person. Like, you know, everything's got to be organic and natural and the juicer and the, yeah. But he literally would go around high school, like giving lectures on health related items that he thought everybody had to know about. And these people didn't care. Like these kids, they're freshmen go away.
00:18:59
Speaker
But besides that, his little health tirades, honestly, he had a pretty good high school. He had a friend, Joanna Gardner, they've been friends since fourth grade. In ninth grade, they decided to give it a go. They start dating. A few weeks into the relationship, it was pretty evident that Herb wanted way more out of this deal than Joanne did. So she dumped him.
00:19:21
Speaker
And he was super like, he was fine with it. They remained friends. There was no anger animosity. He did nothing. Like they just went back to being best friends. Like no bigs. So he's, he's got this like weird, like he's got these weird ticks, obsessive compulsive, the loud, the outburst, the super obsessive compulsive. He's incredibly intelligent, but he seems to be able to like get along with people too. Like he's kind of in his way some. Yeah.
00:19:48
Speaker
the breakup with with Joanne, Herb decided that he was going to get into religion and he went in to the Mormon Church but lost interest very quickly that was not going to be his newest obsession and instead had joined up with the Methodist Youth Fund which was a little club and in that club it happened to already exist and only have female people in the club
00:20:16
Speaker
That was Herb's deal. He's gonna go meet some ladies. He's gonna join this club to do so. But how if he's got a wee wee? Because you guys had joined. It wasn't a rule. Okay. I misunderstood. But think about high school. All the religious clubs, usually it's more predominantly female than male because it's not cool to be in religion in high school. Well, Herb went and got his buddy and he's like, listen, you gotta join this club with me. And he's like, no, dude.
00:20:44
Speaker
Bro, it's all girls. You got your pick of the litter. Just come. And the girls actually really liked her. They nominated him president of the club. Everything went great. Nothing weird. So while he is still socially awkward,
00:21:00
Speaker
high school he kind of found his lane to stick into and he would hang out with the smart kids and the you know quote-unquote nerds he still was a bit odd and you know stood out it was the 70s and he showed up to school every day in a freshly ironed button-down shirt and dress slacks when no one else was wearing that so he was odd but no one didn't like him like he had no one had problems with him no one had issues no one had anything so
00:21:29
Speaker
In 1975, as a junior, Herb started to obsess over a TV movie that he watched called The Sweet Hostage.
Herb's College and Gambling Adventures
00:21:41
Speaker
It is a movie where Martin Sheen started. I mean, think lifetime, but like really low grade lifetime, like sci-fi, think sci-fi movie, you know, a little budget. But Martin Sheen was in it. He was his big name now. And he played a very intelligent mental patient in this movie, who kidnapped his nurse. And I can't remember the lady's name, her full name is Blair Sutton. She was in the Exorcist, but she played the nurse.
00:22:06
Speaker
They end up falling in love, living happily ever, and he just obsessed with this. He doesn't get weird. He doesn't get all, you know, kidnapping or anything. He just, you know, obsessed with it, talked about it, idolized it, but just continues to go on his way, doing pretty good in school, trying to make his way with the ladies. And he actually reported that year to everyone that wanted to know they didn't, but he wanted everyone to know he lost his virginity that year and junior year.
00:22:34
Speaker
So it was a good year for Herb. And then he graduated the next year in 1976. The summer before college, he hung out with his friends, told them all about his big plans to be a hotshot lawyer. And honestly, probably would have been a good one with how smart he was. And he went off to a local state school in New York and started college. However, even with as smart as Herb was, unfortunately, college
00:23:03
Speaker
It was very quick, it was very quick blip in his life because he dropped out. Herb states that it's because high school had not prepared him for the study habits of college. His whole life he's never had to study, literally just knew everything. He's always the smartest kid in the room, always the smartest kid in the class. And then he got to college and it's not such a small little fishbowl anymore and it was a different ballgame and Herb didn't want to play. So at this point,
00:23:33
Speaker
And it was high school's fault they didn't teach him. His roommate's fault because he showed him that you could skip class. You didn't have to go to class if you didn't want to. And no girls would date him. And if he just had a good girl that would date him, they could have kept him on the straight and narrow. It's not Herb's fault he dropped out. So just to let you know, he is a victim. 100%. The world screwed him. The world did. Hard. But at this point, Herb starts to show, let's say,
00:24:03
Speaker
I don't want to use the word strange, but that's negative. But off-putty. Maybe alarming behavior, if you will. Herb shaved his head bald. Took to only wearing white pajama pants. God, is he like Neo-Nazi? No, no. I wish, almost. No, no, no, no, no. Actually, Herb's kind of funny. You would like Herb. Shaves his head bald. That's my step. No, wait, wait for it, because you like awkward moments, right? Yes, you do.
00:24:29
Speaker
So Herb starts wearing only white pajamas, but not to bed in public, in life. That's all he'll wear. And he walks around his life like he is in the middle of a kung fu action movie. That's the best way I could find it described. And it's honestly the best way to describe it. Like he'd be walking down the street and random Bob Smith comes out of a hardware store on the same side of the street, walking towards Herb.
00:24:55
Speaker
and all of a sudden Herb would like stop and go into like some crouching tiger pose, like he's gonna attack him. I do think now is the best point to point out. Herb's never had a karate lesson in his life. Well, I'm just kind of confused like how, okay, hold on, rewind. So, drops out of college. Yeah. And then he just wakes up one morning and he's like, I'm gonna wear. I'm Bruce Lee. White pajama pants and be a ninja.
00:25:26
Speaker
Yeah, he's a kung fu. Where did that mental break happen? I don't, you know? I don't, I don't. That's why I said you'd like him, because if you were walking on the opposite side of the street and you saw a white cackling, white young hoo over here trying to like, where he's in the ostrich pose or whatnot, can you imagine what you would probably follow him around the rest of the day just to see how many times that happened? There'd be a lot of, a lot of videos.
00:25:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. This is where he's at his life. He's we're breaking. We're. Yeah, I am not innately a bully, but I mean, you reap what you sow. Right. But there's no like he's never taken a karate lesson. No one in his family is he just decided he was a come to lawyers. Curiously. I mean, like sometimes I'll wake up in the morning and I'm like, I don't want to be an adult anymore.
00:26:21
Speaker
But I don't put on diapers to start crapping my pants. Right. I don't go build forts. I get up and I go to work and I take my kid to school. Not her. So that's going to be like a there's a mental break. There's something happened. Something something went wrong. His rubber band was stretched too tight and it went. And slapped all around his dome. Violently. Yeah. Yeah. So I just imagine him walking around like and he never attacked anyone. He just getting these pojos and be like. And just freeze.
00:26:50
Speaker
I wish. I wish. Oh, this was a video. Yeah. Yeah. Everything she just did right now. So that's what he did. Luckily, there were no nunchucks involved, but this is this is Herb's life. He is a kung fu warrior and he's taken down the everyday people on the street. I don't know. But remember, he's very smart. Like he's a genius. Right. Yes.
00:27:17
Speaker
Does he have tissue box shoes? Yeah, he does not. OK. None. None. Kung Fu warriors do not wear tissue boxes. OK, I'm sorry. So he's very wrong. Wrong spectrum. Yeah. I don't know. Wait, was that offensive? Well, honestly, I did it again. All right. Yeah, your life is offensive. That's fine. They're used to it. So he's super smart. He's very good with numbers and he's got like an idiotic memory where he can just remember numbers.
00:27:45
Speaker
So he decides he's going to take all his money and he's going to go to Vegas and he's going to gamble and he's going to become a millionaire. So that's what he does. It's all his money goes to Vegas. He gets there and turns around and goes right back home because he's only 18 years old and you're not allowed to gamble till you're 21. And he didn't look into that fact. So back to Kung Fu Huey. We go again, trade smarts.
00:28:08
Speaker
Look smart. Yeah. Very different things. Well, I thought he was good at numbers. You don't know you have to be 21 to gamble. Like that's very common. Yeah. So. All right. So Herb is unsuccessful in Las Vegas because he's not of age to gamble. So he moves back home. And this is the point where Herb starts starts to get a little bitter and angry at life. He's, you know,
00:28:36
Speaker
He had to drop out of college because school didn't prepare him. His roommate was a jerk. Girls wouldn't date him. Everybody's fault. Everyone's out to get him. Vegas wouldn't let him gamble because he was only 18. Yeah, he's like the stupidest smart guy ever. Yeah. Yeah. So he's just getting pretty angry at this point. And with no other options, Herb's decides. The only thing left for him to do is join the Marine Corps. That's what he does.
00:28:59
Speaker
And when he was joining the Marine Corps to say, you know, give their spiel, and he was told he could choose whatever job he wants. Perfect. So Herb wants to go into intelligence. And I am sure he saw himself as like an international man of mystery. Like a James Bond type. I mean, he was a ninja. He was a ninja. So I'm thinking that's what he thought when he picked the field of intelligence.
00:29:25
Speaker
to go into. But he went into the intelligence field, but he was basically a secretary, like on a typewriter taking notes, which is not what he had in mind. And it doesn't take long into this job that Herb loses it. He goes off the rails. All the other rubber bands in his brain have snapped. And he goes AWOL from the military, from the Marines.
00:29:50
Speaker
which if you're outside of the United States and you're not really sure what AWOL is, it stands for absent without leave. And it is a very big issue here in the United States. For example, if you are AWOL for less than three days, three days, one, two, or three days, you go AWOL. The maximum penalty is confinement of one month and for feature, you give up two thirds of pay for another month. Yeah.
00:30:16
Speaker
It can be brought up to like, you can go to jail, like military jail and be brought up on charges. Like it's a big freaking deal. Yeah. So Herb's father, um, sit Herb down, talks to him, explains you have to go back to your position in the military. You could be charged with a felony. This isn't like, this isn't a joke. This is, you don't get to just drop out. You have to go back and Herb does go back.
00:30:41
Speaker
However, upon returning to his post in the Marine Corps, they decide the U.S. government to give him a psychological exam, which should be done, but he had that huge outburst when they were also psycho-validists.
00:30:57
Speaker
After the exam is complete, Herb is given an honorable discharge from service because he was found to be psychologically unfit for service in the Marines. So he's out. At this point in Herb's life, he's kind of at a lull. He doesn't know what to do.
00:31:14
Speaker
He works multiple jobs. He goes from Burger King to Sears working in the stockroom, going to selling Dodge trucks at a dealership, goes to sell shoes in a shoe store, just literally anything to get a paycheck, jumping around everywhere. He goes through all these different jobs and he starts from the Marines and Herb decides, you know what, it's time to make a change for my life. And in the 80s, he packs it up and goes back to his plan of Las Vegas.
00:31:44
Speaker
Because he's of age now. So he starts working at two different casinos. And while working at these casinos, he watches the tables and learns how to count parts. So he starts wouldn't take a guy like that very long. No, because he's, again, extremely intelligent, very good at math and has almost photographic memory. So he starts gambling and winning. And he wins big.
00:32:09
Speaker
and he wins enough very quickly to quit both of his job at the casinos and basically just becomes a professional gambler. August 18th, 1981, the small town of Las Vegas was rocked when the body of a 12-year-old girl named Sheila Jo Kester is found partially clothed in the desert east of Las Vegas. She was found raped and strangled with bite marks deep into her skin all over her entire body.
00:32:39
Speaker
There were no leads, no evidence, nothing. There's a vague sketch of a man who was said to be seen around the area, but that's it. Like, it's a sketch. Like, those are never good, right? Yeah, we all saw the Night Stalker sketch. Right. Very, very similar. Yeah. So Herb was not, you know, not involved in that. He's good. But in
00:33:05
Speaker
Let's see, 1982, Herb is still living in Las Vegas. Still works as a professional gambler. He's doing, he's doing well for himself. His life has turned around. Excuse me. He becomes an author because he's published two books on the subject of gambling. He becomes a really good friend. All right, we're back. I'm no longer dying. The dogs are no longer having conniptions. So on we go.
00:33:29
Speaker
Um, so Herb's just published his two books on the subject of gambling. He becomes good friends with Michael. Um, Sermato Sermato. I don't know. I don't know the last name. I can't pronounce it anyway. So Michael. Yes. With the eyes and the nose. Yep. And Michael's another gambler who has actually an advanced mathematics degree. Also very intelligent. And what do you know? Also a card counter. So at one point, um,
00:34:00
Speaker
Herb tells Michael that he's been practicing the art of clairvoyance and can now predict the cards, not just count them. And he knows the outcome of like the baccarat tables or how you pronounce that baccarat, baccarat. Anyway, he knows it because he's starting to become clairvoyant. Again, just that little bit more slip and reality kind of another band has popped, if you will.
00:34:27
Speaker
But the two friends join a group of card counters who go around from casino to casino playing blackjack as a unit with these signs they'll give each other to rake in this dough. Basically a movie. Think of a movie, that's what they're doing. It's this nice little underground team of card counters. But that's his life, that's what he's doing. So it's at this point that Herb meets a man named Alan Hacker.
00:34:57
Speaker
who is interested in learning how to count cards. Alan wants to learn how to count cards. And he's basically a fanboy of this little group of card counters, and follows them around, watches them, tries to buddy up with them, and that kind of deal. And Alan said that Herb was very cunning, very sly,
00:35:18
Speaker
But because, you know, again, Alan followed them around and watched them and said he's incredibly intelligent, super good at what he did. But if there was any kind of pressure. Herb lost the plot and became like this bumbling just couldn't function. Yeah,
Herb's Obsession and Mental Decline
00:35:34
Speaker
because he's socially awkward. So and he said he'd start bumbling things up, being super awkward. And he'd watch Herb over and over doing so well.
00:35:45
Speaker
in this group and at these different casinos counting cards, but then ruin it all when the pressure got high. But Herb and Alan kind of started becoming friends. They'd see each other. They'd hang out more. They were both very interested in target shooting. So the two got closer, started spending more time together, going to, you know, shooting ranges, talking guns, whatnot. And while in a gun store one time, Herb told Alan of this really interesting book that he just finished reading.
00:36:15
Speaker
And it was supposedly written by an ex-CIA agent. But can I say one thing? Yeah, go ahead. You said supposedly. Supposedly. Thank you. That's all I needed. I just wanted to address me crazy. At least I don't say milk. Good call. That's good. So Herb read this booklet by an ex-CIA agent and basically the whole books on methods of killing people.
00:36:42
Speaker
And it would describe all these weird ways to kill people and give them cutesy little names for each murder. And Herb is just telling Alan this in the gun store, like it was amazing, loved it. He really liked, he really enjoyed or was interested in this one murder style that the CIA agent talked and described, which involved flex cuffs, which are just zip ties, like little plastic flex cuffs.
00:37:10
Speaker
And Alan just thought, you know, this is getting a little weird for me, but whatever, teach their own, go on with your bad self. So, um, it's at this point where another band snacks and herbs head and he starts obsessing again. And this time it was on the way to maximize energy efficiency. Like went back crap crazy.
00:37:36
Speaker
And like, if his friends would accelerate too fast in the car, he'd literally lose the plot and start screaming at them about all the gas that are wasting. They need to drive nice and slow and steady. And they're like, dude, we just need to get to the casino. Shut up. Wow. So again, just that, that other band snapping, if you will, um, Herb on the other side has a steady girlfriend and they move in together. Her name's Kelly Cluff. They had a great relationship. It did not last.
00:38:05
Speaker
which you know I wonder why I'm gonna tell you why okay she said that he was very sexually peculiar which is not something you want in the description of your boyfriend no Kelly said that he would treat her like she was a child he started spanking her and then he'd tell her just lay still Herbie won't hurt you yep
00:38:33
Speaker
If that if that wasn't bad enough, at one point, she stated that he shaved off all her pubic hairs and exclaiming she looked just like a 10 year old girl. Warning, warning, danger. Look, I'm all I'm all for sex games in the bedroom, but you've crossed the line. Can we just not go there? Yeah, no, no, no. And this is this is the 80s. Like there was not the Brazilian wax wasn't a thing yet, my friend.
00:39:01
Speaker
Like, this wasn't normal behavior. There's no clean bees at this point. No, it's the Brenda's Beaver book. You know what book I'm talking about? If you've never heard of the Brenda Beaver book, just Google it, read it, and enjoy your life, okay? As an adult mocking other people. So, um...
00:39:25
Speaker
I give up on you. Yeah. In 1980, the relationship didn't work. Kelly Cluff was out, which good for you, Kelly. Run, run to a different state, change your name, change your hair, change everything, change your locks, hide your wife, hide your children. In 1984, the year of my birth, Herb, uh, ends up getting arrested for a cheating scam, accounting cards thing, and released on bail for $500.
00:39:49
Speaker
He was supposed to end up back on trial, but the case honestly just kind of fizzled out, never leading anywhere. So in 1985, the year of your birth herbicides, he needs to start over and he's going to move to South Lake Tahoe in California. It's always California. Yeah. He saved up about $200,000 from his gambling as a nest egg and move. Now I'm just going to stop right here and say, this would be a great end of the story because okay, let's, let's be honest. Who rules Las Vegas casinos?
00:40:20
Speaker
the mob he was part of a group that went around cheating the mob the casinos the house money the house always wins no no no no they broke that they counted cards they cheated casino to casino for like three years and he got away with it why didn't they just break his legs and throw him in the river and the story could be done I don't maybe they knew I wish they had no they knew that Lake Mead was gonna dry up eventually yeah I'm kidding well continue they didn't and so the story is gonna continue
00:40:50
Speaker
So, um, he moves out to South Lake Tahoe and it's after the move that Herb really truly starts to lose touch with reality. Um, he moved there and knew no one in the area and he was lonely and he just had himself, which isn't a great companion. And he just didn't know how to make friends in this new area. I mean, in Las Vegas,
00:41:16
Speaker
It's a city that never sleeps. There's people everywhere. You go to a casino, you got a best friend for the night, and you both go your separate ways. You're constantly surrounded by the bubble and the life and everything, right? This is not where he's at now. He doesn't have his little group of card counting cheats. He's not surrounded by people. And he just doesn't know how to get out of this. So he's, I guess, depressed in a way.
00:41:42
Speaker
He's just stuck. He's alone, and he's stuck. So he finds something new to obsess about. New little thing. I don't like where this is going. And it's science fiction. OK. And with that, he got so wrapped up, because remember, he'd obsess. Yeah. And just ends and out, ends and out. And it got a little harder and harder for him to remain in the here and now. And literally, just he starts losing his grip on reality.
00:42:12
Speaker
In a span of a year, Herb lost all his money, all $200,000 of it. Gone, poof. Not on money, not on drinking, not on women, not on drugs. None of that, because remember health still. Yup. I couldn't imagine. Yeah. He literally, he had to call his parents and ask to borrow $300. Like he was flat broke. And that's a lot of money. Yeah. And with this deteriorating mental state and with the addition of science fiction, he started seeing signs and everything.
00:42:42
Speaker
Everything was a sign from the universe to him, personally. Right. And it was how he lived his everyday life. If he saw someone, because he would still gamble, but instead of using these tried and true methods of the counting cards and the math and everything else that he was doing well, succeeding in Las Vegas, he threw all that away. And if someone had scratched their head, that meant he needed to go all in. Not that they had dandruff or, you know, like that was his sign.
00:43:11
Speaker
And he just made these signs up on a whim. And that's how he started, and that's how he lost everything. He gambled it all away by not relying on his math abilities and his card counting and his intelligence, but looking at these supposed universal signs that were being sent to him. A psychologist would later say, again it was Dr. Mark Mills, that he examined Herb and said his state, not his statement, but he kind of summarized everything in a year and a half
00:43:40
Speaker
Herb lost $150,000 at the gambling table due to simply abandoning his method. And Dr. Mills said most people would, when you know, when they're seeing these signs from the from the universe, sorry, it's been everywhere.
00:43:59
Speaker
Lisa was trying to keep it together, she does it. Most people when they see these quote unquote signs, the universe are giving them to win, but you keep losing, they'll just give it up, right? And go back to their old method that actually was winning. Herb persevered in his signs and just kept with this new method, which eventually caused his downfall. And it kind of, if you think back to it, when he was talking to his buddy, Michael, he said he was clairvoyant. So it was all kind of there before.
00:44:27
Speaker
He had these card counting group and everybody that kind of kept him to plot, if you will. He's lost the plot. Like, all right. No, I'm going to keep you stable. We need to do it this way. Yeah. They're gone now. Well, and also they use signs to each other on when they would work these. So he's used to signs. I don't know if maybe that got lost somewhere, but neither here nor there. He's lost everything. So.
00:44:53
Speaker
He ends up having to move into a trailer park and he uses a childhood friend's name without consent to move into this trailer park because he couldn't pass a credit check and also opens up an international calling card under this guy's name, again, without his knowledge or consent. And that was the guy, not her, but this other random name is who owned the trailer, right?
Herb's Deceptive Crimes Begin
00:45:19
Speaker
I don't know the name.
00:45:20
Speaker
Um, I do, but it's, I don't have it written down till later and I'll lose my spot. So we're just going to go unnamed for now. Um, and if anybody asked, Herb just said that he was that guy's roommate. Like they were friends, they lived together, you know, that type of deal. Like Herb didn't assume the identity, but he just used it. Yeah.
00:45:37
Speaker
So at Christmas, Herb goes back to visit his family. Everything seemed super normal. His dad said he acted like he always did. His mom said he seemed a little stressed, but honestly, she just accounted that to the lifestyle he lived of a gambler, because it's not steady. It's highs and lows, and it can be stressful, never knowing where that next paycheck is coming from.
00:46:00
Speaker
And the early 18, 19, not 18. We're not going to say, dude, we just, I just skipped popped into the way back machine. Um, her in, in 1987, the landlord, our trailer park manager, whatever observes all these deliveries starting all these huge deliveries of carpet and foam and wood being delivered to herbs trailer.
00:46:26
Speaker
And Herb has taken this material in and out, in and out, doing all this stuff to the trailer. Nobody has any idea what's going on. But he's kind of a weird guy. He's kind of that eccentric guy, you know, harmless, harmless Herb, if you will. So that's kind of where we're at. In May of 1987, Herb makes a plan. And he calls his local blackjack dealer. His name was Candace Smith.
00:46:56
Speaker
she does not know him now you're just gonna have to stick with me there's a lot of names about to be thrown around here all right it'll all come back together okay um candace doesn't know herb connihan she knows gary serrano who's a regular at her blackjack table gary is herb herb is gary they are the same person yes he just used a fake name okay anyway herb calls candace at three o'clock in the morning
00:47:23
Speaker
Now number one, you call me at three o'clock in the morning, you best be a very close relative and you best be about to die. But you best need help. Because if not, you're going to. Call for- You didn't know my rule. Yeah. So he calls her at three o'clock in the morning. But this isn't Gary Serrano or Herb Coddingham. The person calling Candace is John Parrott. And he's with Parrott Communications out of Atlanta.
00:47:54
Speaker
So it's three o'clock this morning, this woman is dead asleep. She has woken up and she states that there's a very fake Southern accent coming at her on the phone. Saying, ma'am, I just got your dare number from that dare modeling agency and I wanna use you in one of my beer commercials. It couldn't have been worse than that. Apparently it was bad. It was bad. I did the worst accent I could.
00:48:23
Speaker
He also tells her, I heard you, I heard June's got a daughter and I think I could use her in a commercial as well. So you, you just bring her on with you and you come down. We're going to set you up with, with this commercial. Candace loses the plot, starts yelling at him, telling him off for calling so early and tells Mr. Parrott.
00:48:43
Speaker
to shove it. You can't see my air bunnies. I'm doing air bunnies on Mr. Parrot's name. Mr. Parrot basically tells her, you need to calm yourself there, honey. I have played at your table. I know everything about you. I know where you live. You don't talk to me like that. So she hangs up on him. She's done. Like, I'm going back to bed. This is a prank call. This is ridiculous. Yeah, this is BS. Yeah. 9 o'clock in the morning rolls around. And Mr. Parrot, John Parrot, calls Candace back.
00:49:14
Speaker
and saying, listen, I'm not trying to fool you. This is a real legit deal I'm talking about there, darling. You need to talk to my partner. Then he hands the phone, apparently, to someone else, and Candace says the exact same voice comes on the phone with no accent, no tone change, nothing, exact same voice, just no accent, and says, hello, hello, can you meet us here for lunch? Is the lunch a good time for you? She just hangs up, like.
00:49:41
Speaker
She said it was obviously the same person. One just used a really bad accent and one did not. So as weird and disturbing as that whole situation is, it gets worse when you know that Herb had told another blackjack dealer that worked with Candace, and it's told Candace that, and I quote, Candace had a pretty little daughter. Candace's daughter doesn't go to the casino. She's a child.
00:50:11
Speaker
How does he know what she looks like? Why does he know what she looks like? So we're still in May 1987 and that whole plot fell apart really quick for Herb. But luckily there is a new talent scout in the area, Mr. Mark Bloomfield.
00:50:33
Speaker
Mr. Mark Bloomfield calls Reno Modeling Agency and tells them, listen, I'm looking for some teenage models to take place in an anti-drug commercial I'm shooting. Get me some models together, send me head shots, let's get something together. They don't return his call. A few days later, on May 14th, the same man, Mr. Mark Bloomfield, calls the Bratizan Agency, Bratizan, Bratizan, I don't know, agency telling them,
00:51:04
Speaker
I'm with Parrot Communications, and I am shooting an anti-drug commercial, and I need a few teenage girls. Can you sit over some of your model's headshots? Can we get together and audition? Then we'll call him back. So he shows up at the agency, Mr. Bloomfield does, on May 15th, the day after.
00:51:26
Speaker
And once he's there in person, he wants to see the models. He wants the head shots. He wants to set something up. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. But the people he talked to stated he seemed very nervous and was obviously in disguise. Very poor disguise. His hair had obviously been dyed recently to a jet black. It was greased back to his skull with a lot of gel.
00:51:52
Speaker
He did have a very real mustache that he had not dyed, so it was still brown. And he wore these weird horn-rimmed glasses like an old lady would wear. The whole thing was weird. They just got a weird vibe. And you know what? Even though he had a business card and he's wearing a nice suit, they just, you know what? Because he's sitting there. I need these models ASAP. So we've got to set this up. We've got to set this up. This commercial is important. You know what? The agency just, they did not. They just said, you know what? We don't have any models right now that are going to fit your criteria.
00:52:22
Speaker
We're not going to be sitting in your way. You're not getting head shots. No, they had a bad feeling good for them. Couple days. And this is what this Mr. Bloomfield, which, spoiler alert, it's Herb, is going through all the modeling agencies that have child talent, telling them the same spilt.
00:52:41
Speaker
One modeling agency, the, uh, the Avant's advanced agency, he showed up there with horn room, women's glasses, mustache, brown hair. Like this same person is showing up at all these modeling agencies, asking for the same thing, looking different each time. Like they're not all going to talk to each other. Right. Okay. Well, unfortunately, maybe the max Martin is the 69 year old, 69 year old owner of showcase finishing and modeling school.
00:53:11
Speaker
And she talked to Mr. Bloomfield on the phone and he explained, I'm out of Atlanta with parrot communications. I'm doing an anti-drug commercial. I need some young teenage girls to film this to really try to get kids against drugs. And Mabs is a great lady. She cares for her talent. And yeah, we want to keep the youth of America off drugs. I'm going to set you up an audition. Oh, no. So she sets an audition up for Mr. Bloomfield with about a dozen girls for his commercial.
00:53:41
Speaker
He shows up to the audition, jet black hair, glasses, pinstripe suit, looking nice, watches all 12 girls audition. There are three girls there that he offers the role. He casts them for his commercial. He's trying to work out the details with the three girls. One of the girls has a family event later that day of the commercial shoot.
00:54:05
Speaker
And so she just says, listen, I'm not going to do these arrangements like we've talked about. I'll have my family drive me and just kind of wait outside and then I'll leave with them after the shoot. The next day she's fired. She was a little too old for the commercial. He was just throwing her a bone. The two other girls are perfect though. So the last girls fired, she's too old, leaving Mr. Bloomfield with 12 year old Monica Berg and 14 year old Alicia Toma for the commercial.
00:54:34
Speaker
Now, the commercial's been cast. Mabs' girls have got the deal. They've made all their plans. Saturday, they're gonna meet up. Mabs is gonna take the girls and meet Mr. Bloomfield at the Nugget Casino restaurant, and they're gonna drive out to the shoot together, right? We're there. Girls are excited. They each get 50 bucks an hour for this commercial shoot. For a 14 and a 12-year-old, back in the day, the year we're in, the 87, that's a bit of good money.
00:55:05
Speaker
We're in the eighties. I don't know. I don't know. I couldn't remember. We started in the seventies. My brain got populated. So the big days here, Saturday, May 16th. Um, Mav explains to her son all her plans for the day. She always has this. Um, she picks up her best friend, 67 year old Dottie, who's going to keep her company while the commercial shooting and everything, you know, 67. Mabs is no spring chicken. She was, she was, she was older too. She was 69, I think. Yeah. 69. Yeah.
00:55:35
Speaker
Dottie is 67. It's her best friend. Apparently, this is something they kind of do. Dottie goes with her. They kind of talk and knit or whatnot. Gossip, let's be honest. While the girls shoot, Mabs doesn't ever leave, though. She's going to be there for the whole thing. So she grabs Dottie, and they go pick up the two girls, and they head off to the casino and wait for Mr. Bloomfield. Mr. Bloomfield arrives and jumps into the back seat of the car. There's no pinstripe suit or horn-rimmed glasses.
00:56:05
Speaker
He's wearing sweatpants and is reported to smell funny. Kind of like sweaty, gross. Um, and he gives directions and they drive to the Tahoe Verde trailer park. Park right in front of this trailer where they're going to shoot a commercial, which on the one hand, I want to be like, why was no one like, um, What? But on their hand, you're shooting an anti-drug commercial.
00:56:30
Speaker
So you probably want to make it look like it's bad. You know what I mean? That's really judgment. It is judgmental. But if you're shooting a commercial, you're thinking you're going to a studio, not a trailer park. Correct. So I've lived in trailers before. No shame in that. They are nicer than my house. Some of them these days, Clayton Holmes, good crap. So anyway, they all head inside this trailer. Um, Mab's Dottie, the two girls in Mr. Bloomfield. And he says, you know what? The girls can go to the back room and they can change and freshen up their makeup.
00:56:59
Speaker
while we're waiting on everyone else to get here, we'll go over the lines and whatnot and get going on this, right? So they open the door and walk in and the girl, two girls are first. And in this room, it is just hardwood paneling, like thick hardwoods lining the walls. And there are pictures and posters all over the walls of models hanging everywhere.
00:57:27
Speaker
But there's legit, not even a mirror for these girls to do their makeup in. Like the plot has fallen apart real, real, real quick. Okay. So the two girls are kind of looking around and Madam Zindani at this point have walked in and they're taking all this in.
00:57:44
Speaker
There's no bathroom to get ready in there's no place to do the hair and makeup like what's going on The girls seem a little confused Mab at this point. She's she is a veteran she and she knows something's afoot so she turns around she's gonna get some information and Mr. Bloomfield proceeds to immediately punch 14 year old Alicia in the jaw while he's holding something called a blackjack and
00:58:11
Speaker
in his hand. It's like a I know exactly what it is. Yeah, it's I can't describe it well. Blackjack is something you would put like. For a woman in your purse. Yeah, yeah. Or it's basically a blunt force object that you could whack the crap out of somebody. So he's got one of that in his hands and he punches 14 year old leash in the jaw. And she obviously falls to the floor.
00:58:35
Speaker
So then he turns to Mabs and starts punching her and pushing her into the ground, just beating the crap out of this 69-year-old woman. And the remaining three people, the two girls and Dottie, are literally like screaming and freaking out, which duh. Because something's gone horribly awry at this point. So Herb yells for everybody to shut up. Everybody shut up. And tells the two women, Dottie and Mabs, to get on the ground
00:59:05
Speaker
And he's gonna tie him up. Mabs immediately goes into like damage control. I mean, she just got the crack kicked out of her watch 14 year her 14 year old girl that she manages get punched in the face.
00:59:18
Speaker
But you know what? She's a tough old bird. We're gonna calm, rational. She's gonna talk him down. We're gonna get out of the situation. So she's talking to him. She's trying to, hey, you know, you don't have to do this. Just tell me what's going on. And he finally just looks at her and says, if you don't get on the ground this moment, I'm gonna kill one of the girls. Okay.
00:59:41
Speaker
So, she complies immediately. Dobby starts begging for her life. Just, please don't kill me, please don't kill me. Mabs, on the other hand, starts begging him. I'll give you anything you want. Take anything you want to me. Do anything you want to Dobby and me. Please let the girls know. Don't touch the girls. Don't hurt the girls. Do it to us. I'll give you anything. Name your price. I'll give you any money you want. Herb looks at her and says, I know you will.
01:00:07
Speaker
And at this point, 14 year old little Alicia digs in her pockets, finds all the cash she hands and hands it to this man. Just trying to get this madness to stop. Like, so Herb takes a pillowcase and puts it over Mab's head. Then gets a zip tie and puts it around her neck. Tells him she can't breathe. It's too tight. You've got to loosen it. Please help.
01:00:37
Speaker
And the remaining occupants, again, 12-year-old and a 14-year-old and her best friend Dottie watch in the war as Mab continues to choke and gas spray her until she finally falls over dead to the ground. Suffocated, strangled with a zip tie. Herb then orders the two girls to lie on the ground next to the woman's legs so he can tie them up. They just saw what happened. Yeah.
01:01:07
Speaker
He uses the zip ties again and ties their hands and feet and places a jacket over 14 year old Alicia's head and a pair of shorts over 12 year old Monica's head. So the girls are tied up lying on the ground and they've just watched Mabs be murdered and they can hear as Dotty continues to beg for her life.
01:01:31
Speaker
She's got a heart condition. Just please let her go. She's not going to tell anybody that she doesn't care about the girls. In my opinion, like Mabs will say and take me, use me, not them. Dottie should get me out. Yeah. Um, and Herb goes to grab Dottie's purse and pull it out of her hands. Dottie, unfortunately, maybe because she's just so scared and shot refuses to let the purse go. This pisses him off and he starts to hit Dottie.
01:01:56
Speaker
over and over on the head until she falls unconscious onto the floor bleeding out everywhere. The girls can hear all this but they can't see. So all they have is their imagination to what is going on.
01:02:11
Speaker
Oh, the girl's heads are covered. They hear someone leave the room and they hear in the room, which is Dottie. They don't, they're assuming, but they didn't know. They hear vomiting and gasping for air. He beat her in the head so hard. She probably had a concussion. Um, they hear thashing around until it just kind of stops. They hear someone come back into the room. They hear that of a zip tie being tied around Dottie's neck and he strangles her to death as well.
01:02:41
Speaker
So the girls can hear gurgling noises. They can hear choking, coughing. But this time, they can't see Dottie being killed like they watched Mab. All they have is what they hear, their imagination, which is, I guarantee you, worse than what they saw. And a few minutes later, they hear nothing. They hear someone walk in the room rustling some plastic bags around. And they hear something that sounds to be larger, plastic bags being dragged.
01:03:09
Speaker
and they're just left there blinded and zip tied. They have no idea. So Herbert turns to the girls a little while later and he cuts the zip ties off of them. And he reties their hands in front of their bodies using just a belt this time. He takes the jacket off Alicia's head and replaces it with a pillowcase, which she knows what happened the last time she saw a pillowcase go on someone's head, and ties a rope around her neck.
01:03:39
Speaker
He does the same thing to Monica and he tells them, listen, we just wanted Mabs. I was paid to get her. I'm going to get paid extra for Dottie. You guys weren't supposed to be part of this field. Like this is all like a job he's on, right? Like he's part of the mob and he's a hit man. I don't know. He's still in the movie in his head. So after a while he comes back and he takes the wrist restraints off. He allows the blindfolds to be removed.
01:04:05
Speaker
And Alicia looks around, she can see the room there and still that thick boarded room, but notices there's like peepholes in the doors, like eye holes drilled out to where he can be looking in and watching them at all times. And there, I guess, I couldn't even take a guess to how scared that you are. I mean,
01:04:29
Speaker
But I mean, they're young. Yeah. Yeah. Horrified. And it's not like this isn't this isn't the true crime age it is today. Like there's not all the law and orders and stuff on TV. Right. So he tells the girls not to worry. He's probably just going to use them for ransom. You didn't want them. They were after Mab's all this BS again. Twelve year old little Monica asked her if he's going to kill him. He responds to this by pulling a pistol with a silencer out of his gun and looks as if I was going to kill you. You'd already be dead, little girl.
01:05:02
Speaker
Uh-huh. Again, very movie-esque type of quote though. So he gives them both a glass of water to drink, turns them around, puts the blindfolds back over their heads, the pillowcases, and leaves, returns a little bit later with a bowl of fruit for them to eat, and then ties them back up in leaves and locks them in the shrimp.
01:05:24
Speaker
So it's a lot of in and out, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie him, untie
01:05:55
Speaker
Um, after he's, he gave him their fruities who leaves after he comes back later with magazines for the girls to read because he doesn't want them to get bored. You know, he's a nice guy, harmless herb and all. Oh, sorry. He's Mr. Bloomfield right now. Herb's nowhere to be found. Right. Alicia notices that there's a subscription label on the magazine she's handed and there's a name of herb caught him. There's an address. So he's not paying attention. She rips that label off the magazine and shoves it down on her back. Smart girl.
01:06:24
Speaker
Um, he doesn't notice, he leaves him alone and doesn't return and the two girls just pass out at some point in the night. I mean, their bodies, they're done. Yeah. This is, they were excited and juiced up for the, the, they went from being like overly excited, juiced up for this commercial they get to be in to watching their agent killed, strangled to death.
01:06:46
Speaker
to hearing someone else being beat. Alicia's already been punched in the face to being tied up in all this. They're done. Their, their minds can't handle it. They pass out. So while the girls are sleeping, herbs in the living room, live in his best fricking life. He calls his friend Michael member back in Las Vegas, the mathematician and tells him, I've got something going on here. I've got something like that guy in Philadelphia had. Now,
01:07:16
Speaker
They're the Philadelphia reference is to a man who held a bunch of girls in his basement for years, avoiding capture, basically. So, but it eventually got caught broke. So, but he's proud of himself. Michael asks, Michael thinks honestly that her probably has something going on, but it's just like a kinky role play type thing. Um, as he says, Oh, did you find a girl at the casino to take him and, you know, do all these fantasy hopes of no, I got the real thing going and I'm not going to get caught.
01:07:47
Speaker
His landlord never comes around here. No one's coming around here. These girls are mine. And he's also gone the extra mile to make his trailer soundproof. Spent months soundproofing his trailer. So he's golden. He is Scott free. He has thought this through. He's good. He tells Michael, here's the deal. I'm 30 years old. I got nothing going for me.
01:08:15
Speaker
I've got no job. I've got no family. I'm broke. I've always had these fantasies, but you're just time to give it a try. And I listened to another podcast on the story and they explained it best. Like he's talking like I've got no family. I've got no bills. I'm going to, I'm going to go out and start my own business type of thing. Like that's how he's making this sound. Except he's got two young girls soundproof trailer track. And he's just murdered two people. Let's not forget that. Um,
01:08:46
Speaker
He goes on to tell Michael, hey, if you're ever in the area, you should stop by because it was better than you could have ever imagined. And you want a piece of this act. I'll let you have a taste. So, you know, killing two old women, kidnapping two children, best thing in the world, living, he is high on the hog. The next morning, the girls wake up and Herb's just standing there, staring at them with breakfast, which consists of eggs and strawberries.
01:09:17
Speaker
Then he forces them to take vitamins, because you know, healthy, healthy wife. And he says, come on, let's go in the living room. Want to hang out, girls? Harmless, harmless herb here. So there's this 12-year-old and 14-year-old girl that have just spent the night tied up, terrified, blindfolded, after watching two women be murdered. And they're led in the room by this man who has a, if you're not terrified enough for your well-being, let's just,
01:09:46
Speaker
They've got a man leading them into the living room saying, hey, come watch TV wearing a turtleneck with the arms of the turtleneck tied around his face with a ski mask covering the top part of his face with this bright orange tufts of hair sticking out everywhere. Oh, no, we've gone. So I miss Kung Fu Kung Fu Carl from the beginning. This is he's the master of disguise. Apparently what the I don't know.
01:10:17
Speaker
So he allows them just to hang out in the living room, watch some TV, and tells them it's, you know, it's time for you girls to work out. Gotta stay healthy, gotta work out. So he brings back to the room and he says, I've got some workout gear in there, you'll get changed. And while they're changing, they can hear heavy breathing in the other room, like he's standing outside the door doing jumping jacks, more than likely, staring at the eye holes he's made watching them get dressed.
01:10:45
Speaker
And then they hear a shower. Herb comes back in and forces them to go back to the living room and do a workout tape, like old school Richard Simmons workout tape. And just watches while they do the whole tape. They have to do it. They have to stay healthy. They have to work out. Like, I think even the 12 and 14 year old know he's unhinged. Like all the bands have snapped. There are no bands. They're all gone. So when they're done working out, he offers them
01:11:15
Speaker
Why don't you come take a shower? They both. Nope, they're good. They don't want a shower. No, no, no, no, no. Alicia does ask to brush her teeth, but that's it. Nothing else. And so after a while, he sits down and has a chat with the girls. So here's the deal.
01:11:40
Speaker
They weren't supposed to be involved. He was just paid to take out Mabs. Paid a little extra because Dottie was there. Um, no big deal. But he, he has, they're there. They can't just be for naught, if you will. So here's the plan. They are going to make a videotape with an 18 year old boy that his friends kidnapped.
01:12:04
Speaker
And after they make this porn tape, he's going to sell the porn tape over in Europe to pay his bosses back in compensation for letting these two girls live. Right? Right. That's the point. He then. Oh, you have no idea. He then forces the girls to undress.
01:12:26
Speaker
blindfolds them again. However, Alicia was said to be able to see like a little bit around the blindfold kind of, you know, just like glimpses. Yeah. The story had to come from somewhere. Yeah. I get it.
Captivity and Deception
01:12:36
Speaker
Alicia asks, she's blindfolded, but she says, are you going to rape us? Point blank. 14 year olds. And Herb says no. And if this 18 year old boy hurts you, I'll hurt him. You're going to be okay. You just got to make this tape.
01:12:54
Speaker
So Herb puts both girls on the bed, lies them down close together. The girls lie there and literally just reach over and hold hands. It's the only way they can comfort each other. Herb then climbs on the bed with a microphone. He's got a microphone he's putting on their face. Alicia can see the microphone kind of through the blindfold, just the microphone, that's it.
01:13:25
Speaker
He tells the 18-year-old who walks in, be gentle with the girls now. Then he leans down to Monica, the 12-year-old, and just like he's a master of disguises, he's a master of accents. Remember he had that southern twang earlier. He changes his voice to what he believes an 18-year-old person should sound like.
01:13:51
Speaker
And he whispers to Monica, I'm scared too. The people here have guns, but if we just do what they want, I don't think they're going to hurt or kill us. Wow. He's her. Wow. So, oh no, we're not moving. Oh my God. So at this point, Herb starts to kiss Monica just.
01:14:13
Speaker
toes to top everywhere he can kiss. Just kissing her over and over and over. Alicia can hear the kissing sounds. She's still grasping Monica's hand. Hold on real quick. Monica's the 12 year old. Monica's a 12 year old. Alicia asked Monica if she's okay. Monica says yes. Fine. Cause honestly, it's probably the worst thing that's ever happened to her, but not as bad as it could have been. Right. 30 minutes into this deal, Monica,
01:14:40
Speaker
Her best will not her 18 year old herb is still kissing a Monica finally breaks and just says please can you stop me stop touching me? Basically, which miraculously he does gets her dress leads her blindfold on. But it's just a tension. Alicia's term. So
01:14:59
Speaker
He goes back to the little boy voice again, leans into Alicia's ear and whispers the same bit he did to Monica. I'm scared, too. They've got guns. We just do what they want us to do. They're not going to hurt us. They're not going to kill us, and starts to kiss her as well. Alicia endures it as long as she can. And then finally, can you please just stop what she does, allowing her to get dressed? After he gets both girls dressed, he leads them into the living room. This is all like a bam, bam. This is not a time lapse.
01:15:29
Speaker
Just got them dressed, leads them into the living room, and Herb's the only one there. Where's the camera crew? Where's the microphone man? Where's 18 year old? I don't know. Wasn't thought through. Brings him in there. Just Herb. And he tells the girl, that video wasn't worth two cents and it's going to have to be done over and you've got to get better at your job. Video is crap. Elsewhere,
01:15:53
Speaker
I'm fixing to make your day though. As bad as the story is. This is the best thing I've ever liked. This is, this is, you've got two legs. I've got one question. Where's my daughter? Do elsewhere in the world. Um, not herb, not herb. No, the episode that we're referring to. Um, Alicia Monica's parents are freaking out. The girls have been gone over 24 hours. They're just supposed to be gone a short while and they should have been back the day before.
01:16:20
Speaker
So they have decided they're going to take the investigation into their own hands, especially Alicia's stepfather, who is chef's kiss. Love him. Okay. He starts calling Mab's office. Call him, call him. Where, where are you at? Where are the girls at? You were supposed to be home yesterday. What's going on, but Mabs isn't answering. She's dead.
01:16:40
Speaker
So, you know what? He's not, no, no, no, no, no. He gets in his car and he drives to Mab's office. No one's there, so he breaks the door down. He goes to Mab's office, he finds her Rolodex, starts a day and starts making calls. Ring, ring. Were you at the audition this day for this commercial shoot? Nope, okay, bye. Next name. Continues down the list, calling every single person in that Rolodex.
01:17:04
Speaker
until finally he gets to, um, he calls and a girl answers and she said, yeah, I was, I was there. I was hired and I got fired because I had, I was a little too old. And he said, tell me everything you can remember from that day. I need to know everything. I need to know everybody that was there. Tell me everything.
01:17:24
Speaker
And so she tells him everything that happened and she said the only thing that she can remember that stood out was there was a BMW in the parking lot with a license plate that said TV team, like 13th TV show type of deal, right? That's why it stuck out in her head. So he said, great, thanks so much. Gets back in his car, goes to his brother-in-law house and says, get in the car, drives out to South Lake Tahoe and just starts looking for BMWs.
01:17:53
Speaker
He finds the car. No way. In the parking lot of the nugget casino. So at this point, he picks up a phone ring ring and calls the police. Tells him the whole switch. Girls, whole thing. All up to this point. So the police. Yeah. So the police. Track the license plate, which was not TV teen. It was TV B E N T to vent to vent.
01:18:21
Speaker
But it looked close enough. Luckily, it looked like something that girl could remember because that's what led them to the car. So the police track this license plate to a local dealership. They go to the dealership and talk, the authorities do, and talk to the owner whose name was Tevent, whatever, that T-E-V-E-N-T, that's its owner's name. And he says, you know what?
01:18:48
Speaker
I know exactly what car that is. I gave it to a friend of mine, Gary Serrano, spoiler alert, and said he had a BMW imported from Europe and the paperwork got messed up so he couldn't register the car. So I gave him a tip plate to use while he was waiting on his paperwork. And he said, actually,
01:19:12
Speaker
Gary gave me a Porsche. She needed to sell on assignment kind of why I gave him the plate. So Porsche is still here So the police then pull out a composite sketch of mr. Bloomfield that the girl gave and he says that That's not a that's Gary Serrano I To Porsche who had the plate. Yeah Gary Serrano. Yeah, you want to come address? I
01:19:41
Speaker
He lives next to my mom in a trailer park. Wow. Okay. This is 24 hours because step dad said, Oh, hell no. Went out on a mission. I mean, this is all like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Luckily. That's why I love him. So, uh, he gives him everything. He lives next to my mom. Here's the trailer park. There's, here's the address. I know it's him. So good to go. Right. Um, so, uh, unfortunately back to the trailer, we go.
01:20:11
Speaker
And I am going to give a trigger warning because we haven't gotten bad, but we're getting back. If you want to fast forward, maybe like five, 10 minutes, I'm going to go as quick as I can, but I'm going to go. So here's your trigger warning. This is not good graphic details to follow. Can I get up and go? Nope. Nope. Unfortunately, can I leave? Nope. Brian can. You're not. You can't. Here we go.
01:20:42
Speaker
I would if I could. But you know what? They lived through it and suffered through it, so shall I. So back in hell at this trailer park, Herb sits the girls back down and he tells them, here's the deal. I promise I will let you go home to your parents. I will let you go home to your life, but you both have to do another 10 minute video and you have to do it good this time.
01:21:12
Speaker
It's not like they have a choice in the matter, right? No. So he takes them back to the room, blindfolds them again. He puts 12 year old Monica on the bed and 14 year old Alicia is relegated down to the floor. But the girls are still, so they're different planes, but they still, Monica puts her hand down and feels around till she grabs Alicia's hand and they're clasping hands again. In the living room,
01:21:42
Speaker
They can hear a voice with a British accent, saying, those tapes are no good. I'm not even trying. My British accent would probably be worse than Herb's, because spoiler alert, British guy's Herb too. Tape is no good. And Herb is telling, I've tried, I've tried, I've talked to the girls, we're gonna do better. And he said, well, you're gonna have to try again, British accent does, right? So Herb comes back into the room and they've just heard, you know,
01:22:11
Speaker
urban British herb talking to one another because they're not dumb, it's the same voice. He addresses Monica and at this point he begins to sexually assault her with his fingers.
01:22:27
Speaker
Monica is crying out, begging him to stop, telling him it hurts. Please don't do this, it hurts. And Herb responds in his little boy voice, saying, is it okay to stop? Asking permission, you know? And Herb says, yeah, you can go ahead and stop. So Herb then attempts to force his penis into Monica's mouth.
01:22:55
Speaker
forcing her to give him a blowjob. Monica's crying out, saying, I'm going to throw up. This is disgusting. She's 12. Yeah. Yeah. Which pisses her off. And he yells, why did you say that? You're ruining the whole show now. Because she's 12, bro. Because she's 12. She's so good. Barbie's sick son of a bitch.
01:23:20
Speaker
And Monica just says, I can't do it. It's gross. I'm going to throw up if you put that near me again. I can't. I can't. And Herb just says, you know what? Whatever. Get dressed. Get dressed. And places her Monica on the ground dress and puts Alicia on the bed. Alicia's the 14. Uh huh. You know, because that's that's an adult. Yeah, totally. And Herb tells Monica to her faith. Oh, we're not getting any better. No, I know. I need a break. Let's just power through it and get it done.
01:23:49
Speaker
Luckily, this part doesn't last very long. Herb tells Alicia, Monica didn't do so well, so you're gonna have to do better for the both of you. Basically, do your job or you're both dead. It's all on you now. Wow. And she screams no, she's not gonna do it, and he starts to undress her. After you undress her, he goes through the same routine he did with Monica. He starts to assault her with his fingers.
The FBI's Intervention
01:24:14
Speaker
Well, I'm sorry, the 18-year-old starts to assault Alicia with his fingers.
01:24:20
Speaker
And God, I'm gonna apologize for what's about to be said. I don't usually smile on the podcast, but I'm gonna keep it true to exact verbatim. The 18 year old is trying to manually stimulate Alicia when her BLS to the 18 year old quote unquote, don't use your finger, you're gonna have to fuck her now. Alicia screams, yells, thrashes,
01:24:47
Speaker
screaming. You promised you wouldn't rape us. You promised you wouldn't rape us. And Herb just our 18 year old, not Herb. The 18 year old continues on and does attempt to rape her. And it doesn't work because she's a 14 year old and her body is not designed for that yet. So he fails to complete the rape process. Not that that is any better. Not that not that she got off lightly. Yeah.
01:25:17
Speaker
I need a minute. I'm just trying to power through this part. It's awful. It's horrible. And it happens to people all the time by strangers and family members. And you've got to protect your kids. And you don't need to be pieces of crap. So like I'm fucking so bad right now. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's taken me like two weeks to write this because I would have to take a break and come back and then take a break because it's a lot.
01:25:44
Speaker
The only thing I can think of how I would like to kill her. Oh, slowly, painfully. Slowly, painfully. So after he fails to rape her fully, not that she was not, her finally tells the 18-year-old doing all this, you know, well, since you can't get it in her, you're going to have to go back to using your fingers now.
01:26:09
Speaker
which honestly, at this point, isn't any better for Alicia. She's in pain. She has started to bleed. And through the blindfold, Alicia can see a red dot of the camera recording all of this through her assault. Her finally stops, or the 18 year old, sorry, finally stops because Alicia never went quietly. She has screamed and she has cried. She has fought as much as her body can being tied up.
01:26:36
Speaker
Um, and apparently that wasn't what he wanted. So he stopped. So let's leave hell and take a break back out into the real world. Um, thank you. Yep. Yep. So in the real world, police have found the trailer park. They have talked to the trailer lot manager.
01:26:55
Speaker
who has said, yeah, Herb, the roommate of so and so, Gary Cervano, was using that license plate, the TEV and T license plate, before he got his permanent plate. So Herb kept that temporary plate, even though he had a plate on his BMW, for this plan. This was planned out. He made a soundproof bunker of a trailer,
01:27:20
Speaker
And in the 80s, trailers aren't what they were today, so it's not an easy feat. He made it soundproof. He kept a temp plate so no one could track his vehicle to him, he thought. This was not the act of a crazy person. This was methodical, methodically pointed. And somebody with 140 IQ definitely had the means to figure it all out. So the manager continues to talk to the police and tells them all about all this wooden carpet, what not going on and out of the trailer.
01:27:50
Speaker
And he said that Herb had told him that he was doing all this instruction to soundproof the trailer because he wanted to be able to play his guitar and jam out. So the police now know they've got them. He's in, this is where he lives and that is a soundproof trailer. Back to hell. Herb allows Monica and Ashley, Alicia, sorry, back out of the room to watch TV because, you know, that's going to make them feel better.
01:28:17
Speaker
And I can just assume, I mean, this is all in the span of 24 to 48 hours. Yeah. That's what I'm everything. Every, this whole story, all this, this crap show, a 12 and a 14 year old girl have lived through. And this is a 12 and a 14 year old who are still innocent back in the eighties when you were a kid. Yeah. Because it was safe to play outside. You know what I mean? It's not like today's kids where they've got phones and technology. These were kids like the true definition of a child.
01:28:49
Speaker
So they're, I'm assuming, just trying to process everything that just happened, everything they lived through. They're not dumb. They knew it was Herb and Herb, 18 year old Herb's voice, like they're not stupid. So the girls finally just on a whim ask Herb, can we call our parents? I want to talk to my mom and dad. I need to talk to my mom. I want to call my mom. And Herb says, you know, you can't do that.
01:29:18
Speaker
He's harmless herb. He's going to make concessions. So he's going to record them on a tape. They can say whatever they want to say to their parents. And he'll hop, skip, and a jump down to the pay phone and call it and play it for their parents. For the parents know they're all right. He's a nice guy. What? Yeah. But at this point, Alicia's not having it. And she said, you said that if we made that next tape, we could leave. We could go if we made another tape. And we did.
01:29:48
Speaker
And Herb says, you know what? Just let me think. Just let me think. But this conversation is like on repeat. And she's like, no, you said we could go. And he's like, just, just let me think. But we made the tape. Just, just let me think. Well, you said, and it's like this, like Herb's, he doesn't have this part planned out. His plan is done. He had the forefront planned out to a tee. Once he got people there, there was no plan. He doesn't have a point.
01:30:17
Speaker
And as we know, Herb does not do well in stressful situations. So Herb finally says, maybe I'll just drop you girls off somewhere and I'm gonna catch a flight out to Europe. That's what we're gonna do. And the girls just sit there on the couch until they finally fall asleep again. Their bodies and their minds, they've got a break. That's what they do. Monday morning rolls around. Remember, all this started Saturday morning.
01:30:47
Speaker
We're to Monday, wakes the girls up and tells them today's the day I'm going to let you go somewhere. Here's the plan. I'm going to go somewhere and I'm going to drop you off. You're going to go to pay phone and you're going to call the police so that they can get you back to Reno where you live. But here's the condition. You have to tell the police that somebody kidnapped you and took you to a two story blue house.
01:31:15
Speaker
and said that if you told anyone what happened in that house, they were gonna kill your families. This is, I just planned, because they're gonna, they're gonna do exactly what it says. Unfortunately for Herb, at this point, the trailer is under FBI surveillance. Right. Actively. So, back to the car dealership to Vitten, calls Herb. Herb's just called the girls the master plan, phone rings, picks it up.
01:31:44
Speaker
because he was directed by the FBI exactly what to do. And he says, hey, I just sold your Porsche and I've got your cash here. Herb's got to go on the run. Cash is a good thing. But so he says, I just sold your Porsche. I've got your money here waiting for you. But by the way, the FBI is looking for you. You should really give them a call. Why would they say that? Because the FBI.
01:32:12
Speaker
They know, they know Herb now. They have taken time to look at his psyche and what kind of person he is. But he has two kids. But they know Herb. This is Morgan, Shamar Malek. Yeah. So during the call, Alicia hears Herb yell, you're saying my picture's up in a post office?
01:32:42
Speaker
Tveton tells him that, again, directed by the FBI. Herb's freaking out, and Tveton says, you didn't have anything to do with that, the kidnapping that's all over the papers, did you, Herb? Or Gary? Because he's Gary to him. Yeah. I'm sorry, it's very hard to keep up with all his names. No kidding. Which Herb replies, oh, I've done much worse than that. So Herb gets off the phone with Tveton and makes a call to David Hacker, Alan's brother, from the beginning. The guy that used to follow him around?
01:33:13
Speaker
and says, I need you to give me directions to Alan's house. Things are getting a little hot here for me. So Herb then ties the girls up, locks them in the bedroom, walks outside, leaves his trailer, gets in his car, which is being trailed by the FBI, right? And goes straight to the post office and walks straight into the lobby wanting to see his picture. Because the FBI knew he'd do it. They knew him. He has to see it. He's obsessed with these things.
01:33:44
Speaker
So he looks, he can't find it. At 9 PM, Herb walks back into the trailer. Please tell me the girls are gone. They're not. What the fuck? That's what they've done so good up until this point. You had him out of the house. You've heard him say he's done worse. You know the girls are in there. Well, actually, at this point, he has never admitted the girls are still there.
01:34:09
Speaker
irrelevant but yet why they let him go back in without testing I don't know that part really bothered me but he walks in the house at 9 o'clock at 903 the FBI receives a phone call from her he states listen my friend told me he saw a poster of me on the at the post office and I'm wanted for kidnapping in Reno and the FBI agent on the phone says I don't know what you're talking about bro
01:34:34
Speaker
You're gonna have to talk to like a field officer like he literally looked up the FBI headquarters Secretary phone number and called them Like they all they don't have computers right now Why is this real life? I don't know I would they not I don't know so
01:34:52
Speaker
She says, you're going to have to, you're going to have to talk to a field agent. He said, well, all right, can I leave you my information and you pass it off? So he gives his real name, his real phone number and his real address and says, can you have a field officer call me please? So Herb tells the girls at this point, you don't have to worry anymore. FBI's found us. They've got us and says that, um, here's the plan. You should take off all your clothes right now and give them to me so I can go wash off my fingerprints. And, um,
01:35:24
Speaker
Fingerprints are not close. Yeah, I know. I know. He's meanwhile, the police and FBI are now have now surrounded the trailer because now they know for a hundred percent sure there are two girls in there. Two officers walk up, knock on the door and Herb, we want to talk to you. Come back here so we can have a chat. Herb says, nope. Yell through the door. Nope. Nope. Don't want to do that. Call me on the phone. Fine. Hostage and negotiation. Why they let him walk back in again. I don't know, but whatever.
Confession and Trial
01:35:54
Speaker
So the phone rings. Oh, so they say, he says, I want to talk to you on phone. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're trying to outsmart a crazy person. So the phone starts crazy for a reason. Yeah. The phone starts to ring and Herb turns off all the lights in the trailer like nobody's home. Wow. Okay. And doesn't pick up the phone. Just rings out. So it goes quiet in the dark for a minute. Then the phone starts ringing again.
01:36:18
Speaker
At this point, Herb walks to a window and yells outside to the FBI agent. What do I do? I don't know what to do. The phone keeps ringing. To which the FBI agent yells back, pick it up and talk to us like McFly. None of our younger audience will ever understand what that means. I have actually typed in jackass.
01:36:43
Speaker
You told them to call you and now you don't. He's unraveled. He's to the bumbling part. It's stressful. So Herb picks up the phone because he told him to call and didn't answer and then he asked him what to do and they said to pick up the phone. He picks up the phone and he says, there's FBI people at my door like they don't know. They're the ones out there calling you Herb. They're the FBI. You just told them to call you. Oh my god.
01:37:13
Speaker
So he tells the agent on the phone, the girls are here in the trailer. I'm really sick and I need to go to the hospital right now. Right now. So at this point, FBI are done. Donezo, firm commercial. They've got firm confirmation. The girls are in there. They bust through the trailer. Every window is broken. People are pouring in windows, pouring in doors. Herb takes off running to the back of the apartment.
01:37:39
Speaker
or not apartment, I wrote apartment. Back in the trailer, quickly apprehended, he's cuffed and a gun is held to his head. He tells him the girls are okay, which no, no they're not, no they're not. No, no, no, no. But he's sick and he's gotta go to the hospital right now. And he also says, you know what, the old lady, the old women are in the back room too, but I put them in plastic bags so there wouldn't be any messies for you to clean up.
01:38:06
Speaker
Messy's. Oh my God. That's, that's legitimately what he said. Quote, quote, quote. Messy's. So the agents in Baird, Kate, the room find the girls alive and they're rescued. While the other agents go to the back and find the bodies of mob and Dottie and Mab. Mab is wrapped up in one trash bag. Dottie's wrapped up in three. Police take her to the police station and
01:38:33
Speaker
On the way, he just starts telling them he had to kill Dotty and Mabs. Everything he used to kill him can be found at the trailer. It's all there, but they fought him and they were just too hard to control. Four women were too much for him to handle. He had to kill him. He didn't have a choice. Those old women were going to be mean to him.
01:38:56
Speaker
So he denies that, um, he continues to talk. He never shuts up. Um, never had any sexual contact with the girls. He never touched them, never laid a finger on them, never hair out of place. His reason why he did all this, he'll tell you, you want to know, you want to know why I did all this? You want to know why I kidnapped the girls? Why I killed the two old women? Why all this had to happen? No, I'll tell you why. No, too many things in the world. There's too many people smoking in casinos and drunk drivers. Just too much of it.
01:39:25
Speaker
And he repeats this logic to multiple different police officers, to multiple, like this never changes. This is his reason why he had to do it all.
01:39:35
Speaker
Then Herb's brain starts sparking. I wouldn't say filing all cylinders here, but start sparking. He's got to befriend these cops. They got, they got to become police. You're not going to arrest your buddy. So he tells him, listen, you know what? I know, I know officer. So, and so you have, I want you guys to know that she's literally touching her leg, touching my leg right now, trying to convince me.
01:39:59
Speaker
that she's innocent. I don't know. He says, I know you. I know you have a you have a hard job. It's demanding. I know that still touching, which is why I backed up the all women. So you didn't have to deal with the messies. I dealt with the messies for you because you're a good guy. This is all going on in the police station. I can't even.
01:40:26
Speaker
Kung Fu Carl needs to come back. I miss Kung Fu Carl days. So I don't know. I don't know. Um, so the girls, I wish this was a video. The girls are brought to the hospital. They've got some bruising, internal tearing and damage obviously, but they're alive. They're back with their families. You know what? I hate that. Oh yeah.
01:40:52
Speaker
Well, no, no, the trauma that comes along with it. Oh, yeah. Beyond, beyond. Yeah. Oh, no, no. But they are alive. They did live through it. Yeah. And then suffer the consequences for something that was not their fault. Yeah. So three days later in court, Herb pleads guilty, pleads not guilty for four counts of kidnapping, two counts of murder.
01:41:13
Speaker
The judge asked him if he understood that he could get the death penalty for this if he decides to go to court and try it by saying not guilty. And he says, yeah, he knows that. June 23rd, 1987. Next month, Clark County Justice Court in Las Vegas issues an arrest warrant for Herb.
01:41:33
Speaker
under for the murder of Sheila, Sheila Jo Keester. Because the investigators in Los Angeles saw this, everybody knows these girls are missing, it's been all on paper. They noticed a few similarities in the case. So they did some digging, did some police work, they got professionals involved, and you know those bite marks all over her body? Perfect match to the cast of Herb's Bite. So now he's got the charges he's facing in California,
01:42:02
Speaker
or counts of kidnapping, two counts of murder, and he's also facing first-degree murder, sexual assault, and kidnapping in Las Vegas as well. So the noose is tightening. Was the death penalty available? Yes, it was. Pre-trial defense moves to throw out all the evidence that was gathered at the trailer. None of it can be admissible in court because the FBI did not have a search warrant. However,
01:42:27
Speaker
It was admitted because there was probable cause for them to go in, do the danger to the girls and the DA then tells the job, you know what? Herb can't get a fair trial here. It's too small of an area. Everybody knows it's contaminated, but the defense refuses. They don't want the trial to be moved. Right. Basically they know they're going to get a guilty. They're just trying to set up appeals later down the road, March 4th.
01:42:53
Speaker
I'm not gonna go through the whole trial. March 4th, the decision is made to move the trial 50 miles away. And you know, Wanda Herb is bat crap crazy and a monster. I do wanna read you this statement he said before the trial. He said, they're gonna spend millions prosecuting me. My God, if they'd just spent a little money trying to help me, none of this would have happened. These people should have seen that I was in trouble and under pressure.
01:43:21
Speaker
Now, I got two sides of this statement. On the one hand, he obviously had some ticks and issues. He obviously needed mental help. He was obviously deteriorating. So yeah, he did need help. But on the other hand, it's still the oh, poor me, I'm a victim card. My thing is, based solely on that statement alone, he knew he needed help.
01:43:49
Speaker
Oh yeah, and he's- And no, listen, didn't seek it. It's not his fault though. You should have seen it, Lisa. That's what I'm saying. You should have seen it. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's not other people's responsibility. Not poor Herbie's fault. You're mocking me. No, I'm mocking him. Yeah. And I'm just saying, like, you can't be of sound mind, make a statement like that.
01:44:17
Speaker
and and believe it to be true. No. And he is. You already knew. Yeah. There was something wrong with you. But he is diagnosed with multiple mental disorders, anti personality, borderline personality, like split personality. He's got all he's got the gamut of it. So he probably did need mental help, but he was functioning. Normal, normal people. Yeah. Aren't going to like. Yeah, I mean, how many cases have we talked about where there's red flags? Oh, yeah.
01:44:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I'm sure there were maybe a couple of red flags with him, but not. But on an interpersonal like with Kelly Club. Yeah. Are his obsession with Candace Smith's daughter. Besides that, he he was a professional gambler. He was good at it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Very, very much under the radar. Yeah, I'm just simply saying he was smart enough to he didn't even have enough people around him to say, hey, man,
01:45:14
Speaker
Your behavior is abnormal. Yeah. And truth be told, even if you were to say this guy needs help and you have someone committed, they can only hold you for what? Seventy. Oh, I thought I was like, I thought it was 24 to 48 hours. I don't know. It depends on who commits you to, though. That's true. He's an adult. He can walk right out. Right. And I don't know what the rules were back in the 80s. Yeah. And there's no like there is no one person that's going to help you. No. So defense.
01:45:44
Speaker
concedes whole trial. They try to say if he's crazy or not. Go back and forth. All these professionals are in or out. All these things happen. Defense concedes that he did, in fact, kill the women.
01:45:57
Speaker
But it's because he's insane. So three different psychologists testify that he is crazy, basically. He's insane. They discuss his signs from the universe gave him, and it was his real belief that bad things would happen to him if he did not follow these messages from the universe. For example,
01:46:19
Speaker
If he saw the number 46 or 45, those numbers came into his orbit, that meant go, you gotta go, you gotta do it, or something bad's gonna happen to you. On the flip side, the number 26 was a stop number from him. Gotta stop, stop what you're doing, cease and desist, now things are gonna happen. But he thought these messages were to him from God, and he thought he had to do these things. Herb stated that he didn't question the messages because they're from God. Who questions God, your honor?
01:46:49
Speaker
And all three of these shrinks testified he was insane, but he was sane enough to stand trial. Here's something I find interesting. You want to follow that logic? 26 was your stop number, right? 26 meant stop. 26 came into your orbit, you stopped. What's 14 plus 12?
01:47:14
Speaker
So if you live by these numbers, Herb or Bloomfield or whatever, and 26, if 26 comes into your orbit, that means stop. Why the heck did you continue? Does 26 minutes stop and 14 plus 12 is 26? Neither here nor there, just kind of pissed me off. Anyway.
01:47:33
Speaker
January 20th, 1989, Herb is found guilty and the judge stated Mr. Coddingham's conduct was probably the most evil he had ever been involved in. The DNA stated that there's only one way to deal with animals like him. His crimes are so evil and depraved, he needs to be put down.
01:47:54
Speaker
Herb attempts multiple appeals. If you're done guilty, you have to before sentencing, multiple appeals, all denied.
Impact on Victims and Society
01:48:00
Speaker
He tried a final appeal saying that his sanity should have been allowed in court for the jury to bear witness to. And the judge does agree with that point. His sanity should have been able to be discussed in front of the jury for them to decide if that was the factor. However,
01:48:18
Speaker
The amount of premeditation, soundproof room using templates, et cetera, makes your claim of insanity invalid. So his final appeal is denied. The California Supreme justices, uh, July 30th are split, uh, five to two, five say death penalty to say no. Um, but basically in the end, it's agreed death penalty. Mad son, which I put this in for you, Lisa.
01:48:47
Speaker
is asked a question during all this mayhem and asks what he thinks the judgment should be, what the sentencing should be. And he says, me? How would I punish him? Give me four to six months alone with him. You have to stop these sort of genes from spreading. Whether the evil's in the genes or in the soul, I don't know, but it needs to end. Give them to me for four to six months, I'll take care of your problem. You don't have to sentence them.
01:49:13
Speaker
Oh, sign the petition, release him to the public. Oh, yeah, basically. So he has sent us to death, unfortunately. Current day, Mr. Coddingham is still in prison right now. Of course he is. I did a lot like I spent multiple. He said 87. Yeah, I saw his old bastard. I'll put his picture up. 87. 87.
01:49:42
Speaker
Yeah, he was when this happened, but he was like 20 or 20. It doesn't matter 2023. Yeah, but you have to think about it. I was born in 84. My parents were in their 20s and they had me. So they're like our parents age.
01:49:58
Speaker
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact that he's still alive on death row. Yeah. But you know what? Fucking good. Good. Let him sit in a little cell where people tell him what to eat, when to eat, when to exercise. Okay. You know what? Every month pull off a finger. I heard, I heard one podcast that I listened to on this that I hope he's in a rape room. I hope he's not isolated. I hope he's in a rape room and you know, I for nice all I got to say on that one.
01:50:26
Speaker
And I did do a lot a lot of digging trying to find out anything on Mon Monica and Alicia because I like to you know, where are they now? What happened to these people probably just disappeared They came out in 2003 came out out in public
01:50:47
Speaker
and spoke to the press, basically, and I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna be triggered in a minute, and I'm probably gonna get up on a steel box, so just bear with me. There was another very famous kidnapping at this point in 2003, and the newscasters, and now we've got internet trolls at this time, are all up in a, you know, half of them feel bad, but half of them just don't understand why Elizabeth Smart didn't just run away.
01:51:16
Speaker
Why didn't she try to get help? And apparently that brought a flood of feelings back into these women. They did an article where they interviewed and Monica stated to say that she should have just called home that she could have just ran away as absolute bull. Alicia spoke directly to Emily in her article saying it's not about moving on and getting over it. It's about integrating and adjusting your life into it.
01:51:40
Speaker
Both encouraged her to take the time she needs to reacclimate herself. Both of them stated, and this is where I'm triggered. Both of the women talked about how after this 12 and 14 year old girl that lived through this, right? Talked about how they were taunted and harassed for years by classmates and acquaintances.
01:52:06
Speaker
throwing accusations at them saying that they should have fought harder. They should have tried to get away. Like it was your fault that they survived something that these idiots have absolutely no understanding of that a 12 year old and a 14 year old girl
Advocacy and Hope
01:52:20
Speaker
lived through. Yeah. But it's their fault. Why didn't you do something? Why didn't you yell more? Why didn't you fight more? Like it's shut up. If you don't live through it, you don't know.
01:52:31
Speaker
I'm not gonna get pushed into our summers to keep moving. Any woman, man, or child that lives through something like that should be celebrated. You know what? It doesn't matter if you fought your ass off.
01:52:43
Speaker
or you laid complacent? You survived. You survived it because that's what you had to do. That is the only time I can find any mention of Alicia ever sticking her head out of wherever she's hopefully living her best life at this point. Monica stuck her head out again. She gave another statement or interview to the Terra News because an 18-year-old body was found dead in Reno, a girl.
01:53:13
Speaker
And she spoke out vocally that advocating for people to be kind and understanding to this new victim's family, it brought it all back to her. This is her hometown Reno, where she was from. Yeah. Brought all back. She shared her story, lets herself be vulnerable. And she states that she believes she survived her reason maybe to tell her story or just to offer support to other victims and families.
01:53:41
Speaker
The article ended with a quote, and it's a good one, and I want to share it, and then we can all be done with this horde tale. Because they interviewed Monica, talked about the new body, and she, you know, told her story, what happened, and just sharing, you know, you've got to help, the town of Reno has to help surround this family, have no idea what they're about to live through. Because she watched her family crumble, I'm sure.
01:54:04
Speaker
They let her go to that modeling. There's always self-blame when something happens, even though it's not your fault. Absolutely. Predators are going to be predators, and they're going to find prey. But this quote I thought was really, really, really good. So I want to end it with that. It said, either way, she, Monica Burge, is proof of one important fact. Kidnap children do come home, and monsters do not always win. Absolutely right.
01:54:34
Speaker
And that's literally the only thing that I can find on either of them. If Monica pokes her head out, anytime there's an assault around her to advocate for the person who was assaulted, to try to fight off the people that are going to, she knows inevitably attack them for it being the child's fault. I mean, you're looking at people, two children whose faces were plastered all over the newspaper, all over everywhere. All they want to do now is move on.
01:54:56
Speaker
And I hope they both live their best life. Yeah. They don't want to relive their story day in and day out. No. But I think the fact that when they see a victim being bullied, they say, you know what? Our privacy is not that important. I'm going to step out after everything they've already lived through. Kudos. I mean, literally. Yeah. That'd be a hollow shell of a human. Oh.
01:55:29
Speaker
Yeah, not a lot of people do that most people know cuz they've already they've already had their trauma. Let me let me just I searched every way I could
01:55:41
Speaker
And I couldn't find, I couldn't even find a picture of them recently, which, you know, I'm fine with, I'm fine with. They deserve their privacy. They deserve their respect. I hope, I hope they have fulfilling, amazing lives. And that's probably all they want. I just want to live. Yeah. This traumatic thing happened. I'm done with it. I've moved on from it. You move on from it. But the fact that A-holes in their lives could question if what, why,
01:56:06
Speaker
I'm not going to do it again. You know, it's because nobody, nobody knows what my business, nobody's really going to know what you're doing in a situation like that till you're in. No. And that's what, you know, and both of them spoke out like, well, I just took my favorite pieces of the article when they spoke out about Elizabeth Smart, but they both said, you know, it's not a clear cut. Like you're thinking like a rational adult. Number one, we weren't. We were children.
01:56:32
Speaker
Number two, it's not a rational situation. No, it's not a situation you're prepared for. No. And I'm I'm paraphasing greatly off of memory of this article, but they're both like, it's not. You're not thinking you're just thinking what what like human being. Yeah. Like you're still hoping against humanity that this person has a decent piece of them and not for people don't like recognize that like you not for nothing. They just watched him.
01:57:01
Speaker
Kill two women. What's going to happen to me? Well, I got to be good, because both of those women were fighting back. Both of those women wouldn't shut their mouths. Yep. So I'm going to be quiet. I'm going to be compliant. And if I have to suffer through your mouth on me, they were children. They didn't know any better. Hell no. So yeah, that's my story. I have so much to say, but we're out of time. Oh yeah, we've been out of time for a while.
01:57:32
Speaker
I just wanted to show and there's so much speculation on what mental disorder her pad he like I said, he was diagnosed with all kinds of things. You can look it up. I honestly didn't feel like giving him any kind of crutch because he's the victim for a little pervy. This is this right here is the prime argument that you and I get into. Yeah. So I have to leave it here because I know.
01:58:00
Speaker
that we're just going to he's definitely we're going to yell at each other. I'll 100% pull the trigger. Fire up old Sparky, do whatever you want. But again, but how bad a was her stepdad, dude?
01:58:16
Speaker
I love her stepdad. I would. He tracked down the car in another city. He got a Rolodex and just started making calls with the busted door to that office and then got his mother and I'll say, get in. We're going, we're going to hunt. And the only, the only way that would have made it any better is if he pulled up the trailer. Yeah. Busted down the door and shot him. Yeah. It's seriously, he reminds me of the guy, the dad from good old minds. You got two legs. I got one question. Where's my daughter? Shut up.
01:58:46
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You got to do as you did the first shot. There is no mercy here. No, there shouldn't be. So anyway, that's the story. That was a bit much. It was a bit much. It was brutal. But you know what? They suffered through it. So now you have to. You know what? It happens every day. I don't have the statistic, but I should have had it ready on how many children are assaulted every day, how many kidnaps are every day. And not all of them get to live a life afterwards. We know. We know.
01:59:15
Speaker
And a lot of us know we watch all the TV programs of foster people and what happens and not everybody's bad, but some of them are. And it's a lot. It's a lot. And you know what? Mabs was a great lady. Yeah. Fantastic lady. And I am not saying either of these girls parents did anything wrong. No, nobody. But the parents are like, Oh, we've got plans. We're going to come to the photo shoot.
01:59:43
Speaker
Don't let your kids go places unless it's with someone that will lay their life down for them. Which Mabs tried. I'll give her that. Mabs tried. Mabs did. But guess what? There wasn't a man with him. Mabs played her life. You think if there was a dad there looking him in the face, he'd have had the balls to do any of that? No, he needed weak women. Old women. Two old women and two young girls.
02:00:03
Speaker
Yeah, but that wasn't the first place he dropped. No. What could have happened in any of the other. That's the different story for a different night. That's my. That was a lunatic. Yeah. And he killed the girl in Las Vegas. Yeah. A 12 year old. Anything to get what he wanted. He raped strangle and bitter. You're telling me this is the only three victims he's ever had. Probably not. No, but no, we got so I've taken up enough of real life. I've tainted your mind. Guys, I really, this is the time I'd usually sit here and ramble and try to make it feel better about life choices. There's nothing better.
02:00:33
Speaker
Dwell on it, marinate it, and do something about it. Do something about it. Speak out. So, uh, sleep tight. Don't let the bedbugs bite. Have a good night. Bye. Bye.