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STALKED - The Story of Constance "Connie" Navarro
152 Plays1 year ago
In this story, Faith is telling us the story filled with red flags on how a relationship can turn against you, without any warning or logic. After ending her relationship, Connie spent weeks living in fear for both herself and her son, as her ex-boyfriend Dean continually stalked and mentally tormented her; until finally ending her life. While slightly late for October's Domestic Violence Awareness Month, it's always something we should look for. The ending, hopefully, will surprise you, it definitely did Lisa!
If you are suffering from Domestic Violence, please reach out to someone: you can reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline 24/7, and has over 200+ language interpretation services (800) 799-7233
Suicidal? Please know you matter! If you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, talk to friends or family and if you do not feel like you can, reach out to the suicide & crisis lifeline at # 988.
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Transcript
Introduction and Halloween Reflections
00:00:00
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to another episode of Twisted Tales with Faith. And Lisa. And we're here. Kind of. And it's cold. And since I'm dropping this episode tonight, I can say I hope everybody had a great Halloween. Absolutely. I had a great Halloween. I did too. It was nice. I had a dragon onesie and it was amazing.
00:00:22
Speaker
Awesome. So I hope everyone had a fun nice time.
Challenges in True Crime Content
00:00:28
Speaker
I'm gonna be honest with you, my life is just a spectacular crap show so I have not kept up with any
00:00:36
Speaker
current true crime news. I couldn't tell you any current true crime news. Yeah. I don't have a whole lot of much of anything right now. Like even what we did last week with one we recorded. Yeah. Well, I noticed that like no new numbers. Well, we were, we were giving like statistics and ooh, this just happened in the news. Yeah. But we're, we've recorded episodes. So we're dropping those like four weeks later and we look like idiots.
00:01:02
Speaker
But I am going to drop this one tonight. Okay. So I can say I hope everyone had a happy Halloween and I hope everyone is staying slightly warm. Luckily, I've still gotten my winter weight from the past five years. So, you know, I'm good to go. Listen, man, you know, hibernate, you're right. And I am a little late on this one. I wish I... That's not good. You're pregnant?
Introducing a True Crime Tale
00:01:23
Speaker
I wish, no.
00:01:32
Speaker
Sorry, but I wanted I wish I'd have found this story like two weeks ago, but I didn't but I
00:01:40
Speaker
Anyway, I'll tell you at the end. We'll get there. We'll get there. So tonight it's Faith's turn to talk as usual. It's always Faith's turn to talk. I always take it. I can't even like actually have a podcast. Faith has a lot of opinions. Oh, shut up. You want my opinions. You asked for my opinions. I do. Yeah. Not 30 minutes at a time. You know, you know that I, you know, it happens. Happens.
00:02:04
Speaker
So tonight, it's my turn. All right. And I've got a story. I don't know. I mean, it's true crime story. So it's not like a really good story, but it's a good story. So we're going to jump good stories like. And that the end, the killer was shot in the face. Yeah. And that's a good story. I wish that that happened, but it does not.
00:02:26
Speaker
So we're going to go in the way back machine just a little bit. Not a lot. But because it's a little bit, it's in an awkward timeframe, I guess, there's not a ton of background information on anybody, which honestly, I'm surprised with this story. There's not more splashes of like holes of information, but
00:02:51
Speaker
I'll explain that at the end. Anyway,
Unusual Characters and Setting
00:02:54
Speaker
you ready? It doesn't matter. You have to listen to me anyway. So I am just going to warn you, every, almost everyone in this story has a legitimate given name, like on their birth certificate. Okay. None of them go by it. And there's no rhyme or reason that I could just discern why. So it's like, hi, my name is Lisa, but I go by Karen. Yeah. Yeah. I just said that because that's your personality. Like Karen.
00:03:21
Speaker
Oh, you're an Amber. That's not, I don't know what's wrong with Amber's. Amber is the color of it anyway. It's not the color of your energy in front. No, no. Amber's are whores. I know the one. Anyway, we'll move on.
Dean's Journey to Venice Beach
00:03:47
Speaker
Let's talk let's talk about John Alexander and you say I interrupt you Yes, my turn tonight. Yeah. Okay, John Alexander Riccardi. Okay, who goes by Dean? That makes sense. Mm-hmm. Maybe you want to Dean because like
00:04:04
Speaker
Richard, you know, Dick. I don't know. Dean doesn't have anything to do with Richard or Dick. Yeah, but Richard and Dick don't really go together either. But that's not his name. His name is John Alexander. I thought you said Richard. No, his last name's Riccardi. I'm retarded.
00:04:21
Speaker
I'm recording. Anyways, he is an Italian born in 1936. He was born in New York in the 70s. He moves out to South Southern California to Venice Beach, specifically. And that's where he's going to start his life, right? All right. He moves out there because he wants to, I guess, try to jump start his career, quote unquote. He's an amateur bodybuilder.
00:04:49
Speaker
And in the 70s, I guess Venice Beach is where you went to oil up and pump the iron. So he wants to go make it in the big time. So he goes, he moves out to Venice Beach, California and spends all his time from every account, literally going from like gym to gym, working out, hanging out with other bodybuilders. And he's known as a super personable guy, but like that's what he does.
00:05:17
Speaker
So that's his life, hanging out at different gyms, hanging out with the people there.
Dean's Double Life and Relationships
00:05:23
Speaker
Everyone says that he's basically this nice guy. However, he can turn into a pretty mean SOB on a flip of a dime.
00:05:34
Speaker
steroids are, you know, Italian. Yeah. Yeah. So, but he's, he's, he's real flashy. Everybody kind of knows him, you know, like literally I thought of pretty much everyone in your family, like all your uncles back in the day, like the grease monkeys, like because they all used to work out. That's literally, I'm picturing specifically one uncle in my head as I'm thinking about the bodybuilder and the oil and the Italian. But, um,
00:06:03
Speaker
so if he's just at all crusty people now yeah yeah um so if if he if his life is just spending times in the gyms he doesn't work in the gym he's just working out and hanging out and he's not at the level in bodybuilding where like he's going to competitions winning prize money getting sponsorships so how does he live
00:06:27
Speaker
I've always wondered that about some people. My guess is illegally? You'd be correct. Because he is a notorious, notorious because he does it a lot but no one knows, cat burglar. Obviously no one in his life knows this but he's a, he burglars everything. I mean he's got wet bandits, he's got sticky fingers every house he goes into.
Obsession with Connie Navarro
00:06:50
Speaker
So he's a bit of a player, which, you know, 70s, Grease head, Italian, muscle builder, you know, he could be on the Jersey Shore.
00:07:00
Speaker
And by a bit of a player, I mean, he's known to date around a lot, multiple women at the same time who were all extremely attractive. He's always around town with a different girl, very flashy. He's always got like tons of cash on him, which he probably stole from grandma Nani the night before when he burgled a house type. He's kind of a doucher. I mean, honestly. Right. He sounds like him.
00:07:27
Speaker
He's kind of a douche canoe but nobody knows he's just very personable. He's one of those people that he's very personable but if you really listen to him you're like there's not a single bit of truth that came out of his mouth that wouldn't quit talking. But everybody in Venice Beach aren't used to northerners up there and so they just think he's like this nice personable guy. They don't realize he's full of it. So in 1980
00:07:51
Speaker
Dean finds a woman that makes him change his womanizing ways. And that is Constance Colleen Navarro. And she goes by Connie and she is... Navarro? No, you said Navarro, but that reminds me of another Navarro. I know that you probably don't. Probably. It's okay, though. And she goes by Connie and she's like his perfect cup of tea. Thank you, Master. And...
00:08:22
Speaker
So Connie was born on October 12, 1941 in Detroit, Michigan. She had two sisters. She attended a school called Mark Hen and her final years of education, she went there for like a year. And that's legitimately the most I could find about this woman's childhood and early life.
00:08:42
Speaker
Markin, where she went to school, was originally known as the law or professional school, but did change its name to Markin. And from everything I read about this school, it's basically like a private school type of situation. It's a finishing school. And this is from the school's website. The school focuses its attendance on business children
00:09:06
Speaker
AKA the Elite, as it's located in Hollywood, California. This is where she, this girl that changed his life, this is where she went to school. The school is known to attract children of those whose parents were in the entertainment industry, or they themselves are already starring in movies,
00:09:29
Speaker
are big time sports ice skater type people. So while there's not a lot known about Colleen's childhood, I'm assuming she and her sisters who attended this prestigious school came from good stock, if you will. So there's a blip about her and her sisters attending Markin for a year, literally, that's all I could find. However, after graduating Markin in 1960, she started her modeling career.
00:09:57
Speaker
She appeared on several episodes of The Price Is Right in the early days. And she literally, she was beautiful. Long blonde hair, like the whole package. She was, yeah, yeah. I'll show you pictures. She's very, very pretty.
00:10:11
Speaker
So in the mid 60s, Connie's career kind of, she stopped it because she got married to James Raul.
Escalating Threats and Stalking
00:10:19
Speaker
He goes by Mike, James Raul, Mike from here on out. Again, don't know why. And then on June 7th, 1967, they had a son together, Michael. Can I go by? Go by whoever you want. This is Princess Banana Hammock.
00:10:37
Speaker
Sure. Friend's reference. Sorry, channel brain. I was so sad about that. What was the full thing? Princess? It was a weird one. I don't know, but I saw it. We're going to sidetrack from it. I saw that on Sunday morning when I got up to get ready for church and I saw it on Facebook and I was like, please be a hoax. It was like Paul Walker all over again and I googled it and I was like, he's really dead.
00:11:04
Speaker
It really is. And they just did that big huge fringe reunion. So I'm glad that he was alive for that. Anyway. So Connie and Mike had their son, Michael.
00:11:24
Speaker
Um, they ended up getting divorced in 1975 when their son was eight. However, they co-parent really well. They remain very close friends after the divorce, by all accounts. Like Connie got an apartment right up the road. They didn't even have like child custody arrangements. Like their son was allowed to come and go. Like they still had family dinners. It's.
00:11:48
Speaker
It's a very good divorce. Yes. Yes. They were adults about it. So five years after the divorce, back to quote unquote current, the eighties when Dean meets Connie, they're dating, they're having fun. And Dean is really good with her son, like really good. Her son really likes him and
00:12:16
Speaker
That's a big deal as your first boyfriend after divorce and the single mom. He's eight. This could be like, hey, you got to think about in the kid's mind, my parents are still having dinner together. We still hang out together. They could get back together. Right. And now here's this guy. Well, I like it. So I don't know that that's like a.
00:12:35
Speaker
I think every kid, yeah, but I don't know, mentally wise, maybe probably doesn't even 100% get it. Maybe not. But I have to think like, in my mind, you kind of think like that could be a deal breaker. Yeah. But her boy Dean and this kid get along so well.
00:12:53
Speaker
And Dean does not live with him, he has his own apartment, but he's a frequent overnight guest at Connie's place. And since Dean starts spending more and more time there, spending the night more, the natural byproduct are he and Michael get closer and closer to one another.
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah, like they're really good friends like they're I mean it's a father-son type relationship like they're the son loves him He plays sports with him. He goes to like he supports him like they're becoming like this little close family unit No, I was talking about the boyfriend
00:13:29
Speaker
Oh, yeah, no dad's Michael though. So dad said the wrong name. Yes Mike is what the dad goes by Michael's the son Michael's. Okay. There you go. Sorry. All right, let's catch back up. You have a small brain. I understand So You have small eyes and it's weird I do so After about two years of this relationship going amazingly Unfortunately, it's two years in you start to have the bumps, right?
00:13:59
Speaker
And they're that stereotypical couple that fight, they're gonna take a break, they get back together, wash, rinse, repeat. Goes really good, then we're gonna start bickering, then we're gonna take a break, then we're back together and love each other, and over and over and over. Until January 1983, a year later, when Connie's just tired, she's smoking hot. She doesn't have dill this, Jamo.
00:14:24
Speaker
So she just decides, whatever. She's gonna end things with Dean for good. And she tells him, it's over, this time it's for real. I'd really like to stay friends with you. You know how that conversation goes. And honestly, if you look at her and her ex-husband, they're still really close. So she has the possibility to be a mature adult about this.
00:14:46
Speaker
So shortly after this conversation, things start to go awry, if you will. Just get a little hinky. Connie breaks up with him for good. And shortly after this breakup, Connie goes and has dinner with a man named George Hoffman.
00:15:05
Speaker
He is an executive with an ad agency and they are going to dinner for a job interview because she is a model and she is still beautiful and he wants to hire her. That's what this is. So they meet in public. So not a date. No, no, it is not a date. The man has a wedding ring on. So they go, they sit down, they do the job interview, talk about the agency, her life, you know, the, the, the sitch, um, goes really well.
00:15:35
Speaker
And it's early eighties. So after dinner, what is George going to do? Because he's a gentleman. Walk her to her car or that. But yes. So he walks her to her car. He, they shake hands, which I've never done at the end of a date. He gives her one of the, like, you know, Hollywood kisses on the cheek, like the air kisses, you know, like.
00:15:55
Speaker
Just a pic, it was not a passionate, there was no groping. And honestly, that's kind of like an Italian thing too. It's like, you know, muah, muah on each cheek and that shit. Yeah, so George, you know, thanks for the interview. We're gonna be in touch. Kiss, kiss, bye-bye. She gets in her car. She goes home. He gets in his car and he goes to his hotel.
00:16:12
Speaker
So the next day, George is still in California. He's in his hotel room. He's, you know, he's winding down, getting ready to go back home to Connecticut and his hotel phone rings. So on the phone, an unidentified man who never gives his name is on the other one with George Anzors. George says that he has a very thick, heavy New York accent and he states that he's Connie's boyfriend. And this man is livid.
00:16:39
Speaker
He's yelling at George, he's cussing him out. He wants to know why George is effing kissing his woman. George is literally stunned. He's like, I don't really know what you're talking about. There's nothing romantic. Who's your girlfriend again? Connie, Connie's my girlfriend. Why are you hitting on her? Why do you have your hands on my woman? Just cussing him out, crazy.
00:17:01
Speaker
And George is like, you know, that's not what's going on. This guy continues to yell. And the guy on the other end finally tells George, if you don't stop seeing Connie, you know what's going to happen? What? I'm going to break her knees. What? Yeah, no, her knees. He's not going to hurt George. He's going to hurt Connie. Yeah, his girlfriend.
00:17:24
Speaker
So George at this point is like, I'm sure crazy town banana pants, but he's like, listen, buddy, there's literally no romantic relationship between myself and Connie. It was a job interview. I wanted to hire her for my agency. I'm a happily married man. Have a ring on. I have no interest in anyone else. I've never had an affair on my wife, literally.
00:17:46
Speaker
So the man gives George one final warning don't ever don't don't don't hit on my woman and He's like George is like seriously nothing. It was a job interview like I'm married you guys like alright
00:18:03
Speaker
So the phone calls over, and I just imagine, excuse me, I couldn't find a picture of George, but in my head, I'm imagining like this little nerdy guy. I don't know, man. I mean, I understand that he's an, he's an, he's well to do. He's not going to present himself as nerdy.
00:18:21
Speaker
But you know what I mean? I don't imagine him as a big guy. I imagine him as like Ward Cleaver. I'm sure he's not like freaking, you know, steroid monster. But just like a nice guy back in the day like, you know, suit. He's no veto. Yeah. So I imagine that after this call, he went down to get a stiff drink and be like, what? What? What is that? So the next day, George is still at his hotel room because he's leaving the day after to go back home.
00:18:51
Speaker
and his hotel phone rings again. And you know he's just sitting on the bed looking at like, is it room service?
00:19:00
Speaker
He picks up and unfortunately it's literally the same guy from the night before. This time, the angry New York man says, you know what, here's the deal. Here's your travel plans for the next few days. You're getting on this plane by this rental car. You're going on this bus. You're making this stop at this time, like gives him his entire itinerary.
00:19:22
Speaker
Then he's like, and then you're gonna, when you're finally done, you're gonna be in Connecticut, going back home to this address, to your wife's name, let's say Betty. So what if I take a little trip to Connecticut and meet up with your wife myself? How are you gonna like that? George is like, here's the deal, man.
00:19:43
Speaker
It was just a job interview. I understand you know where I live because that's what the guys do. And I know where you live. I know where you're going. I know everything about you and I can do anything you want. He's like, I, again, it was a kiss on the cheek. It is a social norm. It's the same as me kissing my mother. It literally meant nothing. I'm leaving the next day. As you know, you have all my itinerary. I'll never talk to her again. Like I'm done. I won't even hire her. Like I'm done. So George, um, believes all this because the guy literally knew everything. His home address.
00:20:13
Speaker
his phone number, where he worked, his wife's name, like he knew everything. When George goes out to his rental car, it has been broken into, it appears. Nothing's stolen, but everything's kind of shuffled around. And so he thinks someone got in there and that's how all his travel plans are in there, yada, yada. So George leaves and goes back home to Connecticut safely. Once there, however, he calls Connie and he's like, hey, I've got to tell you about these two phone calls.
00:20:43
Speaker
Right. Which, you know, good for him for letting her know. I think it's a little cowardly to wait till he's out of the state and she's by herself. Yeah. But if I had some guy saying this is where you, your wife and your kids sleep at night, I'm gonna just, I'm leaving. Literally like the few for the many. I got it. The biggest debate ever. I got to go pack up and move. Yeah. Peace. So moving forward, February, 1982, Dean heads out to New York for a few weeks.
00:21:13
Speaker
In this time span, because the phone call to George, the breakup, everything happened January 1982. So between that and February 1982, one month, it stated that Dean scenes Connie over 15 times. You what? Seize Connie. Okay, seize her, okay.
00:21:33
Speaker
They're not planned meetings. Basically they run into each other accidentally, but in reality, Dean... He's a stalker. He's not ready to call this relationship. And yeah, that's a put. If you really want to get on us, he's stalking her. And I know that stalking is a big accusation, but I want to give you a few facts of what happened these few days. So a friend of Connie, Marilyn Young, says that in mid to late January, 1983,
00:22:00
Speaker
Dean broke into Connie's apartment and forced her to sleep with him. Connie told her about this after the fact. Now, Marilyn never... Well, it's not super clear if Dean raped her during the night.
00:22:16
Speaker
What Connie told Marilyn is that Dean got in bed with her and forced her to cuddle all night long, would not let her get out of bed under any circumstance. Like just forced her to cuddle all night. In my opinion, he probably did rape her or if not at least forced physical contact that was unwanted on her.
00:22:35
Speaker
And you got to think it's almost like kidnapping at that point. Yeah, but it's the mid 80s. She has no, I mean, they don't give a crap if, you know what I mean? Like we barely have, me too just happened. Yeah, I know. So she was probably ashamed. Her kids in the other room, she's not going to go tell everybody this crazy man came in and raped her. Like they're trying to keep it PC for her reputation. Plus she's a model. We don't want, you know, again, pure speculation.
00:23:01
Speaker
But we know that he did break into her apartment while she slept, got into bed with her, and would not let her out, forced physical contact, like at least up to cuddling. So we know that happened in January. Again, that was mid to late January. Towards the end of January, Connie tries to, she was out somewhere.
00:23:20
Speaker
gets in her car and she's having car trouble. Her vehicle will not start out of nowhere. And then all of a sudden there's Dean. But he's not there to be her knight in shining armor. He's not there to save her. Like it's not a meet-cute. He actually has the balls to tell Connie, yeah I know your car won't start because I'm the one that sat there and jerked the wires out. I know it won't start. Basically I can get to you and I'm watching and you'll never know when I've been there. And just sleeps.
00:23:51
Speaker
So another set of friends of Connie's named Carl and Jeanette, Raph Motion, that butchered I'm sure, Carl and Jeanette. They're actually her neighbors and they say that Connie was absolutely terrified of Dean starting at the beginning of 1982 and she was upset, but she didn't want to antagonize him.
00:24:15
Speaker
Um, she tried to be friendly and just kind of gently push him aside. She doesn't want him to go crazy. I mean, he's already breaking in the middle of the night, right? So these are fear on another level. Honestly, God, especially, okay. I'm not even gonna say, especially back in the eighties, because even nowadays stocking is not like a.
00:24:35
Speaker
Well, where's your proof? He didn't really do anything. Like he didn't really blah, blah, blah. But he's literally mind effing you. Yeah. But on top of that, stalking didn't become a crime until 1996 in the United States. So it's not even a crime right now. Yeah. But to even be able to get like any.
00:24:53
Speaker
They have to physically assault you. And no one in the 80s is gonna come say that they were, you know, like you just, you didn't say that. So I can't even imagine the emotional and mental terror. And your kid's there. Your kid's there. So she's terrified. She's literally just trying to deescalate and keep him calm. And so Connie asks Carl and Janet, again, they're her neighbors, can you just keep an eye on my condo?
00:25:20
Speaker
when you're at home. So she asks her neighbors, hey, can you just keep an eye on the condo? She feels like she's being followed. She's pretty sure it's Dean. She's almost positive he's getting into her apartment when she's not there. And she's just worried, can you please just watch it when I'm not there. Carl, her neighbor, is actually a really good guy and confronts Dean.
00:25:47
Speaker
And he's like, you need a man up and just leave her alone. She doesn't want to be with you. She's requested you go away. You need to find someone new, respect her decision and just go. So Carl got balls. Carl's the only one that like, you know, cared in my opinion. Well, that's not fair. Carl's the only one that he didn't care. At this point, I think that Carl sees that this isn't going to get deescalated where everyone else was like, we need to obviously this crazy. Yeah.
00:26:14
Speaker
So, and when you're dealing with crazy, you never know how that fruit's going to fly. Right. Carl didn't care because I think Carl knew this isn't going to end well one way or the other. So I'm just going to say what I'm going to say. And I'll, I will feel good about it at the end. I'm not, I've, it's unfair for me to say no one else cared because that's not true.
00:26:30
Speaker
Anyway, so January 31st, 1983. We're still in the same month, all these things. Connie, she's terrified. She changes all the locks in her apartment to try to keep Dean out. She figures he's got a key still. That's how he's getting in and out. And she literally, it's documented in her day planner. Early February, 1983, she agrees to meet Dean and they're going to discuss what's their quote unquote relationship, right?
00:26:59
Speaker
Again, she's trying to take the friendly adult approach. She's trying not to antagonize him. He's already like office rocker, so really we're not going to make any progress here. She says, let's meet for dinner in a public place because she's not an idiot. In her mind, if they're at a public place in a restaurant, he can't really go full on psycho.
00:27:22
Speaker
So she agrees to meet him there her friend Marilyn young from earlier is supposed to pick her up after this meeting so she's not to be alone in a car for him do you know. All every basis covered here right then they sit down they have dinner they have a nice heart to heart talk it's honestly it went really well dean listen he heard her words.
00:27:43
Speaker
Maybe Carl will help. Who knows? So Connie and Dean walk out. He's going to walk her to Marilyn's car. Marilyn's not there yet. She's on her way just, you know, up the street. And unfortunately, while they're outside waiting, Dean pulls a gun on Connie and tells her you're not going anywhere. But instead, you're going to get in this car with me and we're going to go away for the weekend. What? Yeah.
00:28:09
Speaker
So Connie's terrified, but doesn't, I mean, what's she gonna do? He's got a gun and it's in her ribs, so to speak. So she agrees to go away with him. What do you do? Okay, so just like maybe I heard somewhere, like never leave point A. Yeah, yeah, because you're, yeah. Because once you leave, like you don't know how much force it's gonna get. For me, if you pull the gun on me to try to force me to go somewhere with him,
00:28:39
Speaker
At that point, I would rather take my chances because at this point, he's invaded my life. But if he shoots, you'll leave in your son without a mom. I understand that. It's a hard call. No, honestly. His obsession's not with my son. His obsession's with me. And so I already know that his dad's a good dad. Yeah, a great dad. Still good friends with him. So for me, I think I fight like hell and whatever happens.
00:29:09
Speaker
Well, Connie didn't feel like she had that choice. She feels like... Again, that personal opinion. Agreed. Again, we've had this conversation a hundred times. A hundred times. I could say that's what I would do. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. You can't be told unless I'm in that situation. I don't know. And Connie is able to get into Dean's head, I guess, because he wants to whisk her away to this like out of the city romantic getaway.
00:29:33
Speaker
At gunpoint. At gunpoint, exactly. Connie is able to talk him into, hey, let's just get a hotel room in the city. Let's not leave LA. Let's just stay here. Let's get a nice hotel room. It just made me feel better not to leave my son. Let's just stay, right? Trying to play to that. And also, she thinks if they're in a hotel room, there's going to be other people in the other room. So he can't really do anything, right?
00:29:58
Speaker
people don't get murdered in hotel rooms all the time right yeah not to mention the fact that you're in a in a state that people don't report things intentionally yeah so in that era because hello here you're sitting here you're talking about like this Italian Guido right yeah people people shut up and sounds like that people like well also um he made like i mean it oh he
00:30:26
Speaker
He alluded several times that he had mob ties. He was just a big talker. I didn't give much credence to it because the guy's a liar. Yeah, I was going to say, I think it's just a jackass. So she plays into this, like, we're going to have a romantic weekend. Let's get a hotel. They go. Before you keep going real fast, I'm really confused because when we started talking about good old Deenie, he was a player. Yeah.
00:30:54
Speaker
and literally proved to the world, you gotta have pretty much any girl you wanted, including Connie the model. So on that gets away, I guess. I don't know why he- What trips that why? I don't know. That's my thing. Everybody said he's with all these beautiful women. Yeah. So what makes you just fixate? Because he was fixated on her.
00:31:17
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. That's the weirdest part to all of this for me. You're sitting talking about this guy. Not only is he jacked, which is like... A good looking guy. Popular, always got money that he stole the night before. Right. Regardless, most people probably don't know that. They don't. Nobody knows that.
00:31:36
Speaker
I was sitting here and I'm like, like the guy's got the world by the balls right now. You can't. You can't. How many times on a silver platter? I just put my lip. What in the world could trip a wire with one human being to say, I'm, I'm totally at 100% completely obsessed with you. And no matter how shitty our relationship gets.
00:31:58
Speaker
I have to be with you and no one else. How many times have you said you can't make sense of crazy? I know you can't make sense of crazy. I'm like over here and I'm sitting here. I started going down that rabbit hole and I was like, I can't, I can't because I can't. So they go to this little hotel room in LA and he acts like this is literally like, it's a romantic weekend. He lets her call her friends and her family
00:32:27
Speaker
and yeah like he doesn't even like he's he doesn't even say you can't call anybody you're just like everything's normal this is a normal weekend so she calls at this point it's almost like he's broke like he mentally is just broke the rubber bands have stretched too tightly yes yeah because now he just thinks we're on a romantic getaway even though I forced her here at gunpoint yeah
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah, so she calls her friends, she calls her family, and she doesn't make a big deal out of it, because again, they're in a hotel room, you can hear her. And she's like, I'm spending the weekend with Dean at a hotel. We're having a nice weekend together. And she doesn't outright say, he's kidnapped me. She doesn't say call the police, but everyone that she called all say she did sound very nervous.
00:33:18
Speaker
why none of them called the police, knowing everything that's been going on and that she's literally afraid of this guy, I don't understand. You know, I feel like that's gotta be a very difficult situation for friends and family to be put in because how many times have they broken up and gone back together? Yes. And then- And that was what I was going to think. Okay, so we know he's being a little bit bushy, right? And she was just maybe being a little dramatic when she said he's following her. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right.
00:33:46
Speaker
That's, man, that's a tough one.
Connie's Isolation and Desperation
00:33:48
Speaker
It is. We need code words. Yeah, yeah, you do. Man, this place is really orange. It can't be something that obvious. No, I know. They don't sell tartar here. Yeah, they don't sell tartar here. Yeah. So then this weekend,
00:34:04
Speaker
Dean doesn't say, keep your mouth shut. You can't go home. Like he literally just drops her off at her house. Like they had a nice weekend and he's treating it like this was a planned event that he didn't force her at gunpoint to this weekend. Like, okay. Can you not? The, the hamster quit running on the wheel. At this point though, honestly God, I thought even in the eighties when it comes to like psychology, psychiatric stuff,
00:34:33
Speaker
you could call on someone, have them detained. I don't know, and it's gonna be- That's gotta be some kind of- But the deal is, is he's a personal guy. Everybody says he's personal, he's well-liked, he's popular, he's well-spoken, he gets along with it. It's just these red flags. So her friends, her close friends and her ex-husband all agree that this, she was kidnapped, 100%. At the end of this weekend, they're like, he kidnapped you at gunpoint.
00:35:02
Speaker
And even though he let you call your friends and let you go home, he still kidnapped you. Yeah. He's displaying this odd sense of control knowing there's not going to be a consequence or retaliation. Yeah. So. Even if there was or wasn't, I don't think in that point in time he thought there was. And all this, all this is within like a few weeks span. This isn't even a whole month apart.
00:35:25
Speaker
So for the following two months, Dean continues to make appearances randomly in Connie's life. She'd be out for dinner with friends and Dean just happened to be at that restaurant, which you could label as a coincidence, right? You could. You know, if only it was like in the late 2020s, 2022, 23.
00:35:43
Speaker
you could have just gone on like www.hitman.com. Right? So you could label the restaurant as a coincidence, but there's another time in the same week, spam, she's at dinner at Mike's house with her son, her ex-husband. They're having a family dinner and Dean just shows up at the house, lets himself in and sits at the table and like he was invited. Like they're all still friends. That's not normal.
00:36:10
Speaker
That's not a coincidence. I'm sorry, dude, but even in the 80s in New York, if somebody just walks into your house, you have permission. Well, you know, everybody. To have fire. And this is after Mike has already said he kidnapped you, babe. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like, I just feel like at that point, Mike should have been like, hey, guy, do you want to live? Because you believe now.
00:36:33
Speaker
So due out all these appearances and everything else, Connie is also getting multiple phone calls at all times of the day and night. She'd pick up and either no one spoke on the other end or they'd hang up. And she's not stupid. She knows it's deep.
00:36:49
Speaker
There are multiple times when Connie and Marilyn, her friend Marilyn Young, would go to the gym to work out together and Dean would follow them there. But it's not like a coincidence of like, oh, I'm at the gym. He would literally stand outside of the gym
00:37:04
Speaker
in front of a glass window and stare at Connie while she's working out like uber creepy not normal this is no one this is no longer me cutes this is your your past stalker into like you're that guy he's just standing at the side staring at her working out yeah yeah Dean also started calling again even in the 80s if she were to call and be like um you can't tell me the cops wouldn't be like yeah that's
00:37:34
Speaker
Stalking is not illegal at this point though. There is no such thing as stalking right now right again He it's the 80s basically breaking it in a ring when he walked into the house, but she can't prove it She just thinks he's been breaking it. No. No, I'm talking about my show up to dinner No, but yes, yes weird, but that's not her house that matter he and Michael friends I know I get it I get it I get it
00:37:58
Speaker
All right. So Dean would also call Marilyn Young, Connie's friend, like midnight start ringing her up and wants to know about Connie. What's she doing? How she how she feeling? Did she talk about me? Like literally just getting weirder and more unhinged. Yeah, now we're in like middle school. Check yes or no. Yeah. So at Connie gets to the point where she's legitimately so scared she will not leave her house or go anywhere unless she has a friend to meet her and go with her.
00:38:26
Speaker
She's not going to get caught by him alone anymore. She gets an alarm system installed in her house. Um, she is trying to keep her and her son safe because again, she, she knows you cannot convince her. He's not getting into her house. So the alarm system, she won't go anywhere alone. She has an escort at all times. He's not catching her. Like she's taking every precaution. She really is. Right.
00:38:50
Speaker
So February of 1983, Connie invites Dean to a restaurant to have dinner with herself, Marilyn Young and Marilyn's boyfriend. And they basically have decided they're gonna sit him down at dinner and have an intervention regarding his behavior.
00:39:07
Speaker
Um, just to get like, get it through your head. This is a, you've gone too far. Okay. So Connie and Marilyn both separately say, you just got to go, bud. Like Connie's done. Connie does not want to be in this relationship. She's not going to take you back. She wants you to leave her alone. Connie's like, I'm, I'm, I'm not, we're, we've not been in a relationship forever a year. We're done.
00:39:31
Speaker
I need you to stop. I need you to stop being there, basically. They're trying to take this direct approach. Nothing else has worked. Being friends, being all that. Nothing has worked. So they're literally just trying to get it through his head. They're trying to take an adult approach. Yeah, I'm gonna be, again, real.
00:39:49
Speaker
After going through everything that she's been through, her friends knowing everything that she's been through, like how could you possibly think he's going to take that? I have no idea. And be like, you're right. They're not applying crazy filter. They're thinking this is how adults handle situations. So this is what we're going to do. But nothing about the situation has been normal to this point. No. How many people is this woman? She got divorced. Yeah. And it didn't turn out like this. Yeah.
00:40:18
Speaker
And this is not victim shaming at all. I'm talking about human beings seeing the red flag and saying, I probably should put myself in that situation. So Marilyn says that during this whole dinner intervention talk, Dean was super creepy about the whole situation.
00:40:39
Speaker
Like at the end, he responds with, yeah, I'll leave her alone. I'm done. I'll leave you alone. That's fine. But has this like weird, angry smirk on his face the whole time? Basically like he's plotting something.
00:40:52
Speaker
Yeah, like, hey, I'll leave you alone for the rest of your life, because I'm going to slit your throat and kill myself. Basically. That's what it sounds like to me. Yeah, so after the intervention, surprisingly, nothing changes. One morning, Connie is having breakfast with her friends, Sue Jory and Craig Spencer, which is, I guess, just two friends. And they're at this restaurant, a little bistro, whatever, picture in your mind, they're having breakfast. And Dean walks up to the table and sits down with them, again, like it's a planned meeting.
00:41:20
Speaker
They say that Dean doesn't say a single word, not a hi, not a good morning, just sits across from Connie and stares at her for three to four minutes, complete silence at the table. Just staring. All of, they're all super creeped out. They, the entire situation's weird.
00:41:38
Speaker
The Craig Spencer guy, he's never even met Dean before. He doesn't even know who this guy is. I mean, he knows the situation because his friends have talked about it, but he doesn't really want to set him off by like bowing up to him. Plus, again, Dean's a big guy. He's like 6'2". He's big, huge muscle head, big gym rat.
00:41:57
Speaker
So I wonder too, how much of that is like, I know all about this guy and there's something unsettling about this. Yeah, a hundred percent. Any normal guy is going to be like... Like literally nobody talks, they said for a solid three to four minutes as he just sits there and stares at her.
00:42:16
Speaker
So Craig is like, we're going to try to treat this normal. Let's act like this is normal. Yeah. It's not crazy and introduces himself. He's like, Hey man, I'm Craig. Nice to meet you. And Craig says that Dean reaches up to shake his hand, doesn't say a word and never takes his eyes off Connie, just shakes his hand like nice to meet you, but literally continues to stare at Connie. Then without saying a word,
00:42:42
Speaker
Dean gets up, stands up, points at Connie, like makes a gun with his hand and points at her and does like he's shooting the gun at her head and walks out. It's just these, all these weird, like that's not danger, danger. That's not normal. And at this point, with everything that she's been through,
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah. Right there in and of itself. Is a threat. That's a threat. So late in February, Connie is at home.
00:43:13
Speaker
at her condo in February. Oh, yeah. No, this is all holy. Yeah. Walls. All right. So in late February, Connie's at home and she's got this off in her bedroom. She's got this little balcony. And you know, do you remember my old apartment, those really crappy sliding glass doors that you got to like lift up to get to latch and all that crap just, you know. So she's at her sliding glass door and the door is stuck. She can't get it open.
00:43:37
Speaker
So she goes to her neighbor, Carl, the one we like, and she's like, hey, I can't get my glass door open in my bedroom to the balcony. Can you just come take a look at it for me? And he's like, yeah, sure. So Carl goes, he looks at the door and he notices that the locking mechanism has been damaged. Carl's got to be a pretty, either very, very ballsy or beefy guy. Or it's just, she's a lady and she needs help.
00:44:00
Speaker
Well, no, he's the one that confronted him. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. But you don't have to be a big guy to see somebody in trouble and stand up for him. That's not totally true. No, you can get pounded into the sand. Exactly. But you just don't care because you see someone that needs help. All right, all right.
00:44:17
Speaker
I still have to see what Carl looked like. I would too. So he sees the locking mechanism is damaged. He takes the door off the hinges or whatever and basically sees that this locking mechanism has been sawed in half rendering it ineffective. He tells Connie, worse than that, the only way that this specific locking mechanism could have been damaged is from sawing it inside the house.
00:44:45
Speaker
So, Carl's a good guy and he goes and gets the parts, he fixes the door, replaces the little latchy things so the door will work and lock properly, right? Right. At this point, so it's at this point in time where Connie's done. She's tried everything possible to make this situation go away in a nice, respectable, adult manner.
00:45:09
Speaker
to try to convince them to move on. They can still be friends. They can be in each other's life, but she's had enough and she's scared. And she doesn't want to go to the police because they're not going to do anything. There's no laws against what he's doing. So she sits down and writes Dean an honest letter. And in this letter, this is what she states. These are her words.
00:45:30
Speaker
I'm so sorry that you're so angry and feel this need for vengeance and punishment. You are accomplishing your goal. I feel like the walking dead person going through the motions of life. Like a small animal, like a small wild animal knowing that it is surrounded by a pack of hungry wolves. The smallest sounder movements make me jump.
00:45:50
Speaker
The sounds of the phone ringing is now frightening and it's just going to be another hang up. I'm
Tragic Murder and Manhunt
00:45:56
Speaker
locked in my house afraid of every sound the walls have probably always made. I walk out of my house, a coffee shop, the gym, looking around utter terror until I get into my car and I lock the doors and I can breathe again until I have to get back out and it starts all over again. How long will this go on? That's her like basically
00:46:17
Speaker
Please, I'm miserable. You've won. Let's all just, I'm sorry. So, and again, side note, that's when I put side note, I looked it up, stocking laws didn't take a place until 1996. She has no legal recourse here. So the last week of February, 1983, so I haven't moved past this timeframe, Dean breaks into the condo in the middle of the day. Her son is supposed to be at school, but he has stayed home that day sick.
00:46:47
Speaker
Dean does not know this. So he was eight. He's older this time because they started dating when he was eight. So he's a little older now.
00:47:00
Speaker
So I think he's around 14, 15 right now. So the kid's home sick. Connie left that morning a little while ago to go for her early morning jog, which I'm sure Dean has down to like exactly when she was and didn't know that her son would be there.
00:47:18
Speaker
So the kid's laying on the couch, wherever he is, and he hears someone trying to break into the sliding glass door in his mom's bedroom. And he catches a glimpse of Dean outside on the balcony trying to take the glass door off the track. So the kid gets up, he runs into the bathroom, gets in the shower, pulls the shower curtain very quietly, and he's just going to hide there because he's sick and he's scared and he doesn't know what to do.
00:47:44
Speaker
The boy hears Dean get into the house, and then all of a sudden, Dean is in the bathroom and there's a shower curtain separating them. Through the crack in the shower curtain, he sees as Dean puts a gun on the ground, and then hears Dean pick up the gun, start heading back down the stairs, and he starts going through Connie's voicemails, like listening to her answering machine.
00:48:09
Speaker
like listening to her conversations. And I forgot about it, one of the stories I read was like, remember when people used to call your house and like, they'd be like, hey, pick up, it's Karen. And then, and it records. So he's listening to all her recordings, listening to her messages, who she's talking to. So the kid is in the bathroom, literally, just listening to this, trying to figure out what to do. So the kid, I mean, honestly, I'll give it to him. The mom talked Dean out of taking her out of town that time. And the kid has got his mother's brains.
00:48:37
Speaker
So he, instead of being like, what the hell? He leaves the bathroom quietly and gets out into the hallway and he's like, Dean, mom, or any of you guys here, I think I hear someone breaking into the, trying to break into the house. Like Dean's supposed to be there. Cause they were close.
00:48:56
Speaker
And since they did have that good relationship, Dean goes up and it's like, oh buddy, let me check for you. Where did you hear somebody? And the kid literally is just plain and just like, I think I heard someone in mom's bedroom. Can you just check? I'm kind of worried. I'm sick. I might be hearing, but I'm telling you, I think I heard it.
00:49:12
Speaker
So Dean goes in and he checks the door. He's like, look, buddy, everything's fine. Nobody's broken in. You're safe. Damn, kid. You're the break-in guy, but no, everything's safe. No, that kid's a frigging genius. And the kid is just like, oh my gosh, thank you so much. You're the best. You're my hero. I was so worried. I know you have a gun. Did you know what I mean? Play right into it. Yeah.
00:49:34
Speaker
So Dean sits on the bed, like his mom's bed, and he just tells the boy, you know, I'm just here because I'm really upset. Your mom doesn't want to be with me anymore, and it's made me depressed, and I don't understand why she doesn't want to be with me anymore. Then this full-grown ass man looks at this 15-year-old boy and says, you know what? I'm going to be truthful of you. I'm going to kill myself today. That's my plan.
00:50:01
Speaker
I'm too depressed. Your mom doesn't love me. I'm going to kill myself. I just want to talk to her one last time before I blow my brains out, because that's fair to put that on a 15 year old kid who's sick, who had a great relationship with you. And I'm going to make you shoulder this, that I'm going to do this. Right. So at this point,
00:50:21
Speaker
Dean pulls the gun out of like the back of his pants or whatever and points it at the boy. And so then Dean automatically starts apologizing. I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have pointed the gun at you. I didn't even think about it. I would never hurt you. I'm sorry. And then he reaches out and what do you know, Dean's got a pair of handcuffs.
00:50:39
Speaker
handcuffs the kid, puts him in the bathroom, and locks him in the bathroom and says, I'm gonna go deal with your mom. So here's this sick kid locked in a bathroom in handcuffs, knowing that there's a crazy person in his house with a gun, wants to talk to his mom. And the kid sits there like that for 30 minutes in dead silence, until he hears his mom get there.
00:51:03
Speaker
And then he hears those two start arguing. Dean's yelling, asking all this questions and her mom just keeps saying, where's my son? Where's my son? Where's he at? He was here. He's sick. Where's my? That's all his mom keeps asking. Cause she is legitimately a great mom.
00:51:20
Speaker
And she's asking this over and over. The boy just keeps listening for 20 minutes as these two yell at each other. He also hears a very audible slap. One of them slapped the other one. I don't know if it was the mom's slap saying, where's my kid? Because that's what I had done. But then all of a sudden, there's Dean back in the bathroom sobbing. She doesn't love me. He uncuffs the boy. And he's like, please don't tell your mom about this. And just sleeps. And at this point, the kid's afraid.
00:51:49
Speaker
Honestly, and I'm so confused I know the kid doesn't want this situation to be any worse So he keeps his mouth shut about the handcuff situation and all that the gun Doesn't say anything February 25th We're still in February Connie decides She needs a break. She's gonna leave for the weekend because she's scared and her nerves are shot and she just needs a break so a friend of hers That made a little bit worse. His name's Donny clap
00:52:18
Speaker
He called Connie and said, here's the deal. I've read Dean's horoscope, his astrological signs, the map of the stars, whatever. And they say that Dean is going to be in a rage and erupt by the end of the weekend. You got to get out. And she's like, that's all I need. I'm gone. At this point, I can't.
00:52:38
Speaker
So she doesn't feel, she goes to this weekend to avoid everything. And when she comes back, she honestly, she doesn't feel safe in her own home anymore. So she and her friend Marilyn go out of town for the weekend. Dean calls right before she leaves. Where are you going? What's your plans tonight? Where are you going to be? She doesn't tell them anything.
00:52:57
Speaker
Marilyn gets there to pick up Connie and Dean is just standing outside of her house staring at them. She gets Connie in the car, packs up the bags, and Marilyn says that when her and Connie drive away that Dean like runs in his car and just starts following them around. Like following them in the car till he finally gives up and goes away. Connie has her weekend with her girl, comes back and she's like, you know what? I'm not safe here. My kid's not safe here.
00:53:23
Speaker
So we're going to do the best thing possible. She calls her ex-husband, Mike, and can we just come stay with you for a while? Absolutely. So they go home. Connie and her son go home and they pack up clothes to go stay with her ex-husband. And when she gets home, because it's the first time she's been home since she's been gone all weekend, she realized her alarm system has been disabled. There's no alarm system anymore.
00:53:49
Speaker
And it actually comes out later that while Connie and her son are packing up clothes to go stay with her ex-husband, Dean is in the house, in the closet, watching them the entire time.
Dean's Capture and Trial
00:53:59
Speaker
Oh my God. March 1st, 1983.
00:54:03
Speaker
Connie and Dave are still with Mike, just been a couple of days. And there is a recorded conversation from a voicemail where she picked up afterwards, like we're talking about. And it's between Connie and another woman. We don't really know who, but Connie's asking what are the steps and how do I get a restraining order? She's asking this lady.
00:54:26
Speaker
Later that day, Connie goes to a meeting with an attorney who her ex-husband Mike recommended and set up a meeting to go discuss setting this restraining order in place for Dee. March 2nd, Connie, Marilyn, and Sid Young, who is Marilyn's ex-husband, who are still apparently really good friends as well, are all eating breakfast together at a restaurant when guess who pops in? I'm gonna go with...
00:54:49
Speaker
You're right. So he gets Connie, somehow convinces her to go sit at this separate table that's empty, like right there next to, you know, Marilyn and Sid. And so Marilyn is able to hear bits and pieces of this conversation. And she says she can hear Connie like yell whispering at him.
00:55:12
Speaker
for breaking in and messing up her alarm system. And he openly admits that, yeah, it was him, he did it. She can hear Dean admitting to taking something from her apartment and admit, says that it's a letter you wrote me. Here, I've got it right here. My pocket pulls out this letter she never sent him. And then Dean also tells Connie, there are no locks that can keep me out of anywhere.
00:55:37
Speaker
And I can hurt you at any time I want to, but I haven't because I love you. But I could literally hurt you right here in this restaurant and no one would stop me or do anything about it. But, oh yeah, Marilyn like he's, yeah, he's lost the plot.
00:55:55
Speaker
So, um, but then he takes a turn and he says, you know, I really wish you had actually sent me this letter when you wrote it because I didn't think you cared about me at all. And when I read this letter, I realized you do care and I've affected you and I care about you. So I'm going to leave you alone now.
00:56:14
Speaker
You can go home, you can live your life and I don't have to be a part of it and I'm not going to be a part of it. So it sounds good on paper. Right. But Marilyn says that he just looks like scary bad. Like he looks like he's been on a bender and hasn't slept for days. Right. She actually went so far to say, do you need me to drive you to the hospital? Do you need help? Like she, he looks bad, Marilyn says.
00:56:38
Speaker
I mean, I think that's another like super, super red flag. So Dean leaves, tells Connie, go about your life, go with God as you will, you're safe. And you know, Connie decides he's being honest, he's being truthful, I'm safe, it's all over. So she goes back to her ex-husband Mike's house and she's like, hey, this is what just happened. The letter got through to him.
00:57:06
Speaker
And I'm gonna move home and start over. Mike says you're smoking crack. No, you're not. And however Connie just, she wants this part of her life over and I can't blame her. She just, she wants back to normal. So she goes back home. Her son does not go with her this time. He stays with his dad. I guarantee the dad was like, you can do it, but the boys stay with me.
00:57:32
Speaker
So March 3rd, no March 3rd, Connie and her friend Sue Jory and Marilyn all have plans to go out for dinner and drinks that night. I'm guessing to celebrate that, you know, ding dong the witch's day. Yeah. Did you say Dean dog? I said, I said ding dong, but I should have. Yeah. I should. I wish I was that clever of quickly. So Sue and Connie are together getting ready.
00:58:02
Speaker
Marilyn ends up backing up, backing out, and she gives them a call, I'm not gonna be able to meet you guys for dinner, so sorry. The girls go out, they have dinner, they do whatever. That night, Dean meets up at a restaurant with an ex-girlfriend of his named Stephanie. And she's got her friend there, Tony. And Dean and Stephanie haven't seen each other in a while. And Stephanie's never met Connie. She does not know Connie from Adam. She could be staring at Connie, she would not know Connie. This was before his relationship with Connie.
00:58:32
Speaker
but says that the entire time they're having dinner, all Dean does is talk about Connie. There are problems, he's agitated, he's sweating, he's swearing. And then he shows her the letter that Connie wrote him. That one I read earlier that she feels like a small animal being chased by wolves. Remember that one? And Stephanie's honestly, I guarantee in her head, she's like, what? Because the letter is literally saying, I'm living in fear. Please go away.
00:59:03
Speaker
And he's talking about it like it's this deep, meaningful love letter that Connie wrote to him. That letter I read you. Yeah. He's taking this as she loves me, all this stuff. And so Stephanie, you know, there's no, he is not living in reality. I think Stephanie knows this. Obviously. And she's had to listen to this guy go on and on for like an hour. And she finally just tells Dean, you know what buddy, you need to leave her alone and move on with your life. She doesn't want you.
00:59:31
Speaker
So Dean, they walk out of the restaurant, and there's a payphone, and so he drags Stephanie over to this payphone. And he says, he hands her the phone, and he said, I'm going to dial this number. If a boy answers, I want you to tell the boy, Dean loves you. And if a woman answers, I want you to ask for her son. So he literally calls Connie's number, making Stephanie hold the phone. She knows this guy's cuckoo banana pants. Thankfully, no one answered.
01:00:00
Speaker
And Stephanie was relieved but said it was like a flip switch because as soon as no one answered in the voicemail kick song,
01:00:08
Speaker
Dean freaks out and he starts literally going off. He's, that fucking bitch, Connie won't answer my fucking phone call. Like Stephanie says, losing it. And so Stephanie's like, you know what? Hey, I think you've had, I think you're, it's in the nighttime. You're tired. You're having a tan drum. Let me walk you to your car. So she walks into his car. It's about 10, 15, 10, 30. As he's, he's getting something out of his trunk and she sees a gun in there and she's like, oh, I'm done with you.
01:00:36
Speaker
He gets in his car, 10.15, 10.30, drives off super angry, Stephanie says. Unfortunately, where their meeting is about four miles away from Connie's condo. Around 10.30 or 11 o'clock, Connie's neighbors will later report they heard multiple gunshots and thumping. And then a large man walked out of Connie's apartment and got in her vehicle and drove away.
01:01:02
Speaker
On March 4th, the next morning, Mike hears from his friend that Connie missed an appointment and is like, hey, is she sick? What's going on? They know Connie's living with him. And he knows that's not normal. Moreover, she was supposed to come and have lunch with her son, which she would never have missed. Right. So he calls her condo. Maybe she had a bender with the girls slept in. No one answers. And he's like, nah, I've got to go check.
01:01:28
Speaker
So Mike gets in his car and... He knows what's going on. He's not stupid. No, no. So he drives over there and unfortunately finds Connie's dead body shoved into the second floor linen closet with a pillowcase over her head. And her friend Sue is dead, face down in Connie's bedroom. There's blood everywhere. There's drag marks from Connie's son's room into Connie's room where Sue's body's left.
01:01:53
Speaker
Connie's been shot twice, once in the left side of the chest and exited through her back. It went through her lung. The second shot was to the right side, which traveled and got her aorta. And that's how she died. Sue was shot at close range. Medical reports will say up to two inches away, close range. The bullet went into her thumb because she blocked. So it got into her thumb.
01:02:21
Speaker
Then entered her jaw, tore through her carotid artery, and exited through her neck. The condo showed no signs of forced entry. The only thing as the police are there looking through, the only thing that could possibly have been forced entry maybe is there is this skylight way up in the bathroom ceiling that's slightly askew, but it's super high. It's not possible that anyone could have gotten there, so the cops don't even fingerprint it, photograph it, nothing. Just move on with their life.
01:02:52
Speaker
Both women's purses, wallets, everything is there. Nothing's gone. No joys missing nothing. The only thing that is missing are their car keys and their cars. Both the ladies' cars have been moved about two blocks away. They're parked like facing opposite sides two blocks away, same street. On the kitchen counter there's wine glasses. Connie's fingerprints are on one of them.
01:03:15
Speaker
The other was too much to tell. When they go through the apartment, every single fingerprint they find is either Dean's or Connie's. There are three fingerprints they can't identify. And Dean's fingerprints are on the linen closet where Connie's body was left. So who did the cops want to talk to?
01:03:34
Speaker
I'm gonna go with, not Dean, because he's gotten away with everything. No, they do wanna talk to Dean. They put out an alert for him, but Dean's gone. He's already left LA and by saying he left LA, he left and didn't look back. He left with what was on his body. His car is still there, his motorcycle, all his clothes, everything. When they get to his apartment, they find three different handguns.
01:03:59
Speaker
loads of ammunition, a shotgun, a box for a .38 caliber gun. The gun's not there. A .38 caliber bullets are what killed Connie and Sue. And there are four sets of handcuffs. Shortly after this, a warrant for Dean's arrest is issued.
01:04:20
Speaker
and he's in the wind, nobody can find him. Everybody in the neighborhood was afraid. Everybody knew, like in Connie's neighborhood, everybody said, I knew something was gonna happen. It wasn't right. Everybody was scared of this guy. Dean was a big guy. Mid-1980s, the FBI placed an ad in every muscle magazine for Dean. They stake out gyms in different cities, thinking that he might try to go visit.
01:04:50
Speaker
anything. They're trying anything to land this guy. Dean has put on LAPD's 10 Most Wanted list. They pulled no stops for finding him in the mid 80s because this all happened in 1983. 1988, Dean's father dies in New York. So FBI agents go and stake out the entire funeral. Absolutely. Yeah. Never shows. Never shows.
01:05:16
Speaker
1989, Dean is featured on America's Most Wanted. Like, they're not letting up. And that's a big deal. Back in the day, that's a big deal for America's Most Wanted. The FBI do not give up. This is not a case that goes cold and they just give up.
01:05:32
Speaker
They try everything, like the staking out the gems, the muscle magazines. They start trying to hunt down anybody that knows Dean, anybody that could have been his friends, questioning them. And they find this guy named Samuel
01:05:48
Speaker
Sabatino, Sammy. He's a friend of Dean's. They burglarred together back in the day. And Sammy says that, you know, before Connie died, Dean said that he felt like he wanted to just kill her and take his own life.
01:06:03
Speaker
But a few weeks after Connie died, Dean called Sammy or they met up and he admitted to him that he broke into Connie's apartment through the skylight to wait for her to when she got home. When she did, Sue was with her. Connie went upstairs first and her and Dean get into this big, huge fight. Sue was not gonna let her girl go up there by herself. So when she heard Dean's voice or heard them yelling, Sue charged upstairs. And so he shot and killed both women.
01:06:32
Speaker
He told Sammy that he hid the gun on the roof of his apartment just under some like building materials and debris because he knew the cops were too lazy to even do a good thorough search. And he was right, because they didn't find the gun. Really? Yeah, because he killed her in 1983. This is 1998 that Sammy's telling them all this happened. I mean, they've had all the evidence. Yeah. Late 1990, or yeah, 1990, Dean is featured on America's Most Wanted again, second episode about him.
01:06:59
Speaker
But this time they show a sketch of his current supposed girlfriend and they believe that Dean will be with this girl. I don't know how, they've done, they've literally talked to anyone that's ever had any contact with this guy. But they randomly get a sketch of a girl that- Like Sammy, because Sammy knew, you know what I mean? So like they're hunting down current friends.
01:07:21
Speaker
So they find out about this girlfriend, they get a sketch artist, they put a sketch up and it's Dean. So this girl is again, drop dead gorgeous, blonde, beautiful. She stuck out, she was memorable. Like when people saw her guys, you know, turned to look. So when they, this episode aired in 1990, tips start rolling in immediately. And one tip came in giving an address in Houston, Texas saying this is where he's at.
01:07:51
Speaker
They're there. Go there. You'll find them. So January 4th, 1991, the FBI surround this really upscale like
01:08:02
Speaker
uber rich condo complex in Houston. And they put eyes on a guy walking out that it looks like Dean and he goes out of the complex, excuse me, gets into a Cadillac and drives off. So some of the FBI agents tell him, some wait to the condo for him to return. They don't want to start a chase. They don't want, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, we don't want to give away our position. We know where he is. We want to make sure it's the guy. Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:29
Speaker
So Dean later, or supposed Dean later, this guy, they think is Dean, at least, pulls into a parking garage and parks. As he puts it in park, a car comes racing behind and boxes him in. FBI agents surround the car yelling, get out your hands up. There's 10 FBI agents surrounding and they're going to get them out. They're taking them down.
01:08:51
Speaker
When they do a search of this condo, again, it's a very expensive condo, they find cash, jewels, what appears to be burglar equipment, and over $1 million in jewelry alone. At this point, the FBI have- He really seems very upstanding as a citizen as well then. Oh yeah. Okay. No, this is where the apartment dean came out of the condo. Right, but how about you said he was living with the chick? They never mention her in all these reports I've read.
01:09:21
Speaker
But at this point, the FBI has been stalking this guy for what, eight, nine years? So they know that he, Dean is a suspect in over a hundred burglaries in Miami, Chicago, New York, LA. So he's a professional psychopath. So they've got this guy and they know several things. They know that Dean has undergone plastic surgery since the murder.
01:09:50
Speaker
Supposedly, he changed his nose. He had a mole removed. The FBI has stopped his life. They know that he had multiple documents on how to change your identity. And at the month that he murdered Connie, he had applied for a passport in a different name than his own. Well, I mean, the guy's been going by different names this entire month. Right? That was my thought. What did he do? His original name? Yeah.
01:10:17
Speaker
So the FBI are leading this guy they think is Dean away. And this guy is insistent. Like venomously insistent. You've got the wrong guy. My name is not Dean. I don't know a Dean. I've never known a Dean. My name is Bill Fela. I have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, there are picks and jewels and gold and weights and scales. All you have to do is look into me. I'm a jewel dealer. I deal in gold and jewels like I'm a broker.
01:10:46
Speaker
Get my wallet. So they pull out his wallet. And what do you know? It is William Fela. This is not Dean. Okay. So they're trying to decide what to do and they, they're, you know, still going through his stuff and they open his briefcase and there is a VHS tape in there that he had of his own episode of America's Most Wanted, where he was the star.
01:11:09
Speaker
yeah he literally carried around yeah so they got him it's it's not William Fayla it's Dean
01:11:18
Speaker
So FBI agent Ralph DeFonzo, he spent most of like the past eight years, this guy did most of the tracking of Dean. When he finds out they got him, he's got to see him. So he goes to jail, looks at Dean and says, I'm the guy that's been tracking you these past eight years. And Dean looks at him and says, so what? So they've got him, he's in jail, they, trial comes.
01:11:45
Speaker
The prosecution, obviously, stalker, jilted lover, whole nine yards, right? So prosecution's pretty straightforward. Jilted lover, stalking, everything. The defense- We're stalking a thing at this point. I mean, it's not against the law, but they're setting up like jilted lover, crazy. The defense has a whole different argument. And again, there's no stalking.
01:12:14
Speaker
It's not prosecutable. They just ignore that. Oh, I'm sure she was a psychopath, right? Well, not really, but they, the defense and the lawyer he got, I forget the guy's name, but he's good. Like he was on OJ Simpson's team. Good. Ram. So they spin this story that it's not stalking. It's not a jilted lover. This is a man trying to save a relationship with the love of his life.
01:12:39
Speaker
Dean deeply loved Connie, would never have done anything to make her feel fear. Furthermore, Connie never really broke up with him.
01:12:47
Speaker
If they broke up, why were they always seen out to eat eating together? Why were they, why were they doing all these things together in this very short amount of time if they're not still on again, off again? So. Because he was a shit show. Yeah. So multiple people are brought in to testify. Um, both for and against Dean, Sam, Sammy, his buddy Sammy's brought into test. In this case, like I could do a whole episode just on this court case. It is bananas.
01:13:15
Speaker
Sammy, his little partner that rounded him out earlier, comes up and testifies everything. Well, what do you know? When defense gets up there, didn't you go to jail because Dean turned you in? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that did happen a couple of years ago. That's why y'all had a falling out. Is this not really just to try to get back at him? Nice. So Dean's own stepmother testifies and says that Dean admitted
01:13:43
Speaker
to her deceased husband that he killed Connie. She called the FBI herself on two different occasions, gives all these details, this moving testimony that her stepson, he lost his way. He's in love with her. Very believable, right? Okay. But she called the FBI two different times. That's what she said. Tell him out. Yeah.
01:14:05
Speaker
while he was running and hiding. But then she ends up not being that credible because Defense says, you know, she's really just trying to write a book about her stepson. Like she's trying to make some money. That's the only reason she's making this up. And comes to find out that's 100% true. She never called the FBI, lied about it all. Dean takes- So this year's this poor woman surrounded by a bunch of just sycophants.
01:14:34
Speaker
who is not going to get justice for the shiznit that she went through. She's dead. I know, but she's, she's not going to get justice for being dead right now because two women, he killed two women. So I'm sorry. I mean, the case, like, if you read, I read the entire court case, like the amount of people that came up and ended up like they had to throw out the testimonies or they were, the defense was able to rip them to shreds. He had a very good legal team.
Jury's Verdict and Emotional Impact
01:15:00
Speaker
Dean takes the stand in his own defense and I mean lays it on. Remember, he's a smooth talker. He's a fast talker. I'm not going to give his testimony one minute of airtime and I'll explain why later, but I'm not going to give you anything that he said. Prosecution calls multiple people. Marilyn Young.
01:15:21
Speaker
comes and testifies. She was the best friend. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Mike, her ex-husband testifies the kidnapping, him breaking into her house, all this stuff. The defense literally, I mean, they were so good because they like in their closing argument, like our, even, I don't remember if it was closing argument or if it was rebuttal to Marilyn and they were like, we're not saying Marilyn's lie intentionally. But if you had a best friend,
01:15:48
Speaker
that was dead now, would you not maybe look back and see things that you thought maybe you should have noticed? Wow. And that aren't really that big of a deal, but you're just trying to solve two of your best friend's murders. So, all of it. I mean, it is day's worth. Finally, jury comes back and he's guilty. Thank you. Not a question. During the sentencing hearing,
01:16:16
Speaker
Sue, Jory's daughter, Christina, which she goes by Christie, gets up and testifies. Oh my God. That's the only name. That's like kind of, I know. Right. Um, like it actually mimics her name. That's crazy. Yep. She gets up for the, um, sentencing hearing and she tells the court she was only 13 years old when her mother died. Remember it's been nine years. Yeah. She's only 13 years old when the mother's died, but that night
01:16:42
Speaker
Dean did not just take her mother, he took so much more. He took her mother, but he also, sorry, he also took her aunt Connie, her godmother, who was a second mother to her. Throughout her entire life, aunt Connie was there. She always said if something happened to her mother, she wanted to go live with her aunt Connie and her son, who was a very close friend.
01:17:06
Speaker
And so the night that he took her mother, he also took her other mother and who was going to be her security blanket. She testifies that she wrote him a letter while he was in jail and said she wanted to know what gave him the right to fuck everyone else's lives up. Direct quote. She says that Connie and her son were family to her and that night that was stolen from her as well. Not only that, after her mom and Connie's death, she went through six years of very intensive therapy.
01:17:35
Speaker
because her godmother was gone. She was forced to live with her father and she had a very difficult, very difficult relationship with her stepmom. And so she spent the four years following her mother's death locked in a room by herself. Connie's son gets up and testifies in this part. And he testifies on the events of his mother's death and talks about how it destroyed his life. At 15 years old, he lost his mom.
01:18:06
Speaker
And his father was so devastated, his father lost it. Mike couldn't even take care of his son anymore. His son had to start taking care of him at 15 until the boy became suicidal.
01:18:22
Speaker
He just, his life completely fell apart. He said that he felt partly responsible for his mom's death. He felt like if he told his mom about the night with the handcuffs, maybe she'd have taken everything more seriously and she'd be alive. There's every single person that's ever lost anybody.
01:18:39
Speaker
Like in any way, shape, fashion, or form, there's always a guilt. Like your friend that passed away of a drug overdose, you're like, I could have been your grandmother who passes away of all day because of that. There's always guilt. So he says that he felt very guilty.
01:19:05
Speaker
He started using marijuana very early and that led very quickly to heroin, which he used every day. And he said he took the drugs to cope with the death, but he also used the death as a reason to take the drugs. He was in constant therapy for most of his adult life. I had a cousin that was, he passed from heroin overdose actually. But I can remember one day he called up the house and this was still
01:19:35
Speaker
Yeah. And he was in rehab, so it was like one of those 800 numbers. Do you accept this call? Yeah. Tony Fizzulo, blah, blah, blah. And I accepted it. I was like 16 maybe at the time. Yeah. And his main relationship actually was with your husband. Yeah. And Frankie wasn't there at the time. And he actually wanted to talk, like just, he just wanted to talk. Yeah. Okay. And he was like, at least he had the consequences. And I was like,
01:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, man, like what? And I was young. Yeah. And he's like, just don't, don't do what I've done. And I was like, yeah, man, no, I got you. And he's like, no, you don't, you don't understand. And I was like, clearly not. And he was like, I started out having, you know, the weed, the drugs, whatever mushrooms,
01:20:32
Speaker
alcohol He was like everything was all fun and games until I realized that I had to take those things Like everything felt great Until I had to take those things to feel normal he was like because when I came down I came down further and further and I would just I would shoot up just to feel and I literally honest to God hundred percent never really smoked weed and
01:21:00
Speaker
Never tried shrooms, none of the classic 90s kids candy. I can't even imagine what the kid went through. If he was doing drugs over that kind of pain. That's what he said. He said it was the... You're just going to come down harder. Oh yeah. He talked once and said the very first time he took drugs, he was immediately addicted because he realized it made the pain go away.
01:21:25
Speaker
He said he went on. And then that's the amount you have to do? Oh, yeah. He did heroin every day for years. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Years. Like, you take your first shot, and then you're, you know, whatever. You start doing your norm, and then you're addicted, but then the norm doesn't really do anything for you anymore, so you up the gate. Oh, yeah. You're always chasing that first time. Exactly. That's why you go from pot to heroin. Yeah. To crack, to whatever.
01:21:49
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I mean, it doesn't jump from pot to no, but you know, I'm just saying like you continue. You want that. You want that high piece. Yeah. Um, all the fuck. Yeah. So her son said that he has always been afraid of Dean. He had nightmares about him dreaming that he'd come back in and kill himself or his father.
01:22:11
Speaker
Um, he was in constant therapy for most of his adult life. He was hospitalized seven times in different rehabs due to his drug use. Um, finally, finally on July 16th, 2012, John Alexander Riccardi, AKA Dean was found guilty of first degree murder of both Constance Connie and Susan.
01:22:35
Speaker
by use of the firearm. And the jury found multiple special circumstances, stating that he was there to burglar. He did take the car. So he is given the death penalty. What do they call that? Capital. Capital, thank you. Capital events. So just to kind of let you know where everything ends. I mean, unfortunately, Dean did not actually get put to death. He was the oldest, the oldest person
01:23:05
Speaker
in death row, and he was one of three that were thrown out. Yeah. No, he's still in prison, but he's no longer on death row. He'll just die there. During a 2004 episode of America's Most Wanted, Connie's son was watching it and recalled
01:23:28
Speaker
Like it just like kind of hit him that he was supposed to visit and stay with his mother the night of her murder. And at the last minute decided he just would rather be with his dad. And he said, I really do believe that some sort of divine intervention, I can't explain, saved me. Riccardi is the oldest inmate on death row in California. His is the third death sentence case from Los Angeles County that the Supreme Court has thrown out this year.
Dave Navarro's Story and Advocacy
01:23:59
Speaker
Connie's son in 2013 decided to do like a documentary and it's called A Son's Morning. You can actually stream it. And it's where he goes and he relives all this stuff because it's a death penalty. There were multiple appeals obviously, right? Absolutely.
01:24:18
Speaker
And at one point, he says he's sitting there testifying and he said that he had to say, will you please cover the fuck up? Because beside him on a huge cardboard paper is pictures of his mom's deaths played out. And at 23 years old, he's got to look at that. But I do want to let you know what happened to her son. Let me pull the website back out here. It's incredible to me that like not only do they have to live like the victims, families,
01:24:48
Speaker
have to live through the fact that their family member is dead. But then actually like have to go sit in a courtroom and look at it. Oh yeah. Okay. Not look at it just the one time where they're found guilty. Over and over and over. That's just so. So his mother was killed in 1983. Yep. Three years later, 1986, her son actually while he was still addicted to drugs. Okay.
01:25:18
Speaker
Um, joined a band called Jane's Addiction. Oh my God. No way. And he was later the guitarist in the Red Hot Chili Peppers. No way. And he, uh, was on Ink Master that it is David. It is Navarro. It is David Michael Navarro. He also goes by Dave.
01:25:38
Speaker
So that's his mom. That is when he. Holy shit. Yep. I had no idea. Yeah. But I love the chili peppers. Yeah. I've never dug into like their. Mm hmm. Their history. But I told Brian when you went inside to go to the bathroom.
01:25:54
Speaker
Yeah, you've taken too long. Did you not just hear you? But it's an Ink Master. An Ink Master. I was telling Brian, there's a huge tattoo on, like, I think it's his left side of a woman. It's his mother. Yeah. I know. I know exactly which tattoo it is. He did. He did a documentary because he has the money to do it in 2013 called A Son's Morning.
01:26:14
Speaker
where he went through everything. He went through the places. He went because he said, I happen to have one of these conditions where if I'm afraid of something, I have to do it. So he decided to go to prison and sit down in front of Dean, this guy that was like a dad to him that he loved that killed his mother. And he dressed in his black rockers. That's why Dean's stepmom wanted to write a book.
01:26:42
Speaker
because at this point, he's famous. When they finally catch him, he's in the Chili Peppers. Everybody knows who Dave Navarro is. So the- Wow. Yeah. I'm like, I'm shocked. Okay, I'm sorry, but I, okay, I'm not like a diehard, like- No, but I love Dave Navarro. I do. That's why I like some of their music and stuff, but I had no fracking idea. Yeah, so- I knew he had a cray cray, like childhood, and I heard that his mother was murdered.
01:27:11
Speaker
that this is his mom. But I did not know that that was the story. He was the 15-year-old locked in a bathroom in handcuffs that sat there and listened. This is that her son the whole time. I legitimately. That's him. Literally. Had no idea. Oh, I've had to catch myself, because I referred to him as David the whole time. But when you were like, Navarro, I was like, ah, crap. So I called him by his middle name, Michael. Yep. So I tied up. And I sat there at the very beginning of, like, Ink Master.
01:27:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Dude, way to play it kosher. Yeah. So in his thing, he went and sat across from Dean and talked to him. He wanted to sit down and talk to him, traveled in a limo. And he said, New York Times obviously did an article with Dave. And he was 15 at the time of the murder, shuffling between his parents.
01:28:05
Speaker
On March 3rd, Mr. Ricardo did kill his mom, and he said that he wanted to go sit down in front of this man in this son's mourning, in this documentary he did.
01:28:20
Speaker
And he said that, you know, when he got there, I'm trying to see his exact quote here. You have to tell me where it's streaming because I'm really interested. It says one of the, here's, you know, because they film, it's him and his band going from place to place in this documentary. It says one of the ways which trauma survivors get past it is to walk through the ugliness.
01:28:39
Speaker
I felt super safe about everything because it was a controlled environment. He said that our attitude was always, if you want to know stuff about him, about Google Dean. But when he went to go talk to him, because he was still in prison, he was not allowed to bring in video cameras. And he said,
01:29:06
Speaker
He, I can't find the exact quote of what he said. I saw, I was trying to, and this is why I didn't talk about his thing. He said, I don't want to turn this guy into an interesting character. So he's glad he couldn't videotape the interview with him sitting down. He said, I like a lot of crime television, 48 hours, Dateline, investigative discovery. That's, he's still watching America's Most Wanted. That's how he got like this epiphany. But I like to say that we are both kind of the same way. Like we'll tell these stories.
01:29:36
Speaker
We don't want to mention the guy a hundred percent of the time. We want to know about the victims and the lives that got sucked into. Yeah. So he said he didn't want him to be like this interesting care. He said, you know,
01:29:48
Speaker
Very rarely in those stories are they focused on the family and the horror and the emotional impact. They're always focused on the killer and I just didn't want to tell that. So he said that he is, that's why he's glad that they didn't, they didn't film when he sat down with Dean. That's why I would not go into what Dean said. There are several antics that Dean did during Corp, not going to give it airtime because that's what Dave wants and he lived through this and I'm going to respect his wishes.
01:30:13
Speaker
He said that the meeting with Dean did not play out as anticipated. Direct quote. I wanted it to make me feel scorn and anger and rage and it just didn't. There was no confrontation, no screaming, just an awkward exchange.
01:30:28
Speaker
but there was an emotional intensity to it. A lot of things came flooding back. And I almost was watching myself as an outside observer. It took a minute to get my body and mind and emotional and spiritual stability all back in sync. Ultimately, Mr. Navarro came to a powerful realization during this meeting. He's just some old dude dying in jail. Like he doesn't have this power that I've given him anymore.
01:30:55
Speaker
He's just this old dude in jail. So he said he saw like he was talking about because he went back and talked in the interview about like high school and everything living through this time. And he said that I saw more sadness than I knew was out there. I'm starting to find the real Dave. He said he do all this. After my mom was killed, I always focused on her death, on the murder, on the tragedy, on the loss and on the trauma.
01:31:24
Speaker
He said, I'm way more in touch with who she was as a person now than I was before we made the film. I had to dig into this trauma to get to see the beauty of my relationship with her. And the next time I step on stage in front of a festival audience, maybe it's a little less scary because I'm already faced my mother's killer and it makes things seem right sized. But he goes on because he was suicidal through all this. And he goes on to use his platform about reach out for help.
01:31:53
Speaker
Um, I'm freezing. It's really cold here guys, but, um, I do also, there's one other point I wanted to make because I do feel like it's important and because they've said it. So they Dave's documentary about his mom's death, which I will link is called morning son, but it's spelled like morning. Like you're in morning, right? Not morning, like daytime. There's also another documentary about his mother's death.
01:32:24
Speaker
Um, it came out, I don't know, I don't know the name of it, but December 10th, 2018, David Navarro gave an interview, um, and spoke out against it. Um, it was a 2015 documentary. No, 2015 is when Morning Sun came out. 2018, um, a director, Geraldo Rivera ran an episode for his murder in the family about this incident.
01:32:54
Speaker
I think that's the guy with the big bushy mustache. The guy with the huge sash, that's kind of retarded. So he wanted to, in this Murder in the Family series he had, he wanted to do this and he reached out to Dave and asked him to be in it.
01:33:07
Speaker
Dave declined, and Dave's direct quote is, I find it really disappointing that Geraldo Rivera's new show would ask me to participate in an episode about the tragedies in my life. And when I said no, they decided to run it anyway with inaccurate facts and totally abandon the triggering effect a program of this neighborhood would have on the families.
01:33:35
Speaker
That's what he put, that's what Dave said in a tweet. Dang, I hate him a little bit more. So then, in the same article where he's talking about this, this episode and stuff, he said, I understand that true crime is a big moneymaker. In fact, I'm a fan of programs such as this. But when they chase down the dollar instead of having feelings for the loved ones and minds, that's when I have to say something. Absolutely. But this is what made me respect him a lot more.
01:34:01
Speaker
His other quote is, I'm personally okay as I've told my story myself in my documentary Morning Sun. But this is an opportunity to stand up for other families that don't get that choice, whether or not they have their stories told by millions without their consent. As for the article that is posted, I did not find that body, his mother's body, because Geraldo said that Dave's going to have found it all this time.
01:34:25
Speaker
I did not turn to drugs after this event specifically. To say so would do a disservice to those that have lost loved ones and not turn to self-medicating. I was well into my drug abuse when everything took place. He was what, 15, 16 when she actually passed? 15.
01:34:43
Speaker
So, Navarro, Geraldo, whatever, Geraldo, never said anything else. Navarro shared a message with fans about his past battles with depression and suicidal thoughts. Same article, I'll post all this. Urging others to speak out if they're struggling. He said, I can't speak to anyone else's thoughts or actions, but I can speak for my own experience. This is his Instagram post, David's. I've been there, I've written the note.
01:35:08
Speaker
I've had the plan, the stockpile of meds, how to disperse my property among my family. I was ready to go. Luckily, as a last ditch effort, I reached out. I spoke to my closest friends and loved ones. I sought therapy. And at the time, psychiatrics, alternative medicines, even hospitalization, whatever it took, what I learned is that through the process, circumstances and feelings shift.
Facing Fears and Finding Peace
01:35:32
Speaker
So as the tide comes in and rolls out, the universe makes many shapes and constantly evolves. We are all made of the same stuff. We are all constantly changing and evolving and flowing. Sometimes scary, sometimes beautiful, sometimes lonely, sometimes supportive. Hang in there and allow the process and the shapes to change. I can tell you 100% that they will. Please reach out if you find yourself in darkness. There is no darkness without light.
01:35:59
Speaker
Try to be willing to let that find you. So yeah, that is Dave's story. Damn, Zay. Isn't it good? Yeah, you got me. Look, I knew that. I didn't know his mom died. I changed, I changed this two days ago.
01:36:15
Speaker
When I heard it, but I never like, I never looked into it. Like it was just kind of, I don't know, just. Yeah. Yeah. But no, that's, that is his story. And I like that he stood firm against that. And that's his mom. Isn't she beautiful? She is. She's gorgeous.
01:36:32
Speaker
Yeah, she is. And that's his little Dave and his mom. But yeah, that is Dave's life. That is like, and I saw I went I before I like I you know, I do all the research and the court case gave all these things that Dean did all these outlandish things. And I had them all in there. And then I read his morning son where he does a big thing and him talk and I was like, if he if he doesn't want to give him if he doesn't want him to be an interesting character,
01:37:00
Speaker
I'm taking all this out because that's- But you know what though? Not what he wants shared, so I'm not going to go against his wishes. I agree, 100%. Yeah.
01:37:10
Speaker
But anyone that finds the murderer, the interesting character, you need to check yourself. It's not really interesting. I think interesting might be a wrong word. But the people you sit there and talk about and you analyze, well, why would he? Why would he? We all do it. Here's the crap part. Every podcast that we've done, when I sit here and I'm like, I dug into this person's life, but I really couldn't find much. You could research any victim, a dolmer, or Bundy,
01:37:40
Speaker
freaking, you know, anybody, even when we did like at the very, very beginning. When I was doing people that I've never even heard of.
01:37:50
Speaker
You can find 110 things about the murderer and nothing about the family. But you know, if they don't want to be, and that's, I thought that was really when Geraldo Gervaro went out and did this and Dave spoke out and said, Hey, I'm fine. I've, I've dealt with my trauma. I've lived it. I faced it. I don't want to keep reliving it. No, what he said is I'm fine, but I'm speaking out for families who aren't fine. And you're violating them by telling a story they don't want shared.
01:38:19
Speaker
because I've listened to several podcasts and they'll drop either of the murderer's kids names. Those kids didn't do anything. Why are the people who were murdered their kids? Like, there's no reason to say the kids, there's no reason to do all that. Like, yeah. Your lineage doesn't make you who you are. No, but I thought it was really, and that's what he said. He said, I'm not speaking out because I was traumatized, but they're very triggering things that if I hadn't already dealt with this,
01:38:46
Speaker
that would have triggered me. And I'm speaking out for the families that are constantly triggered. And, you know, he's a true crime fan. That's what he said. I love true crime. But I think that's probably like one of the main reasons is that I like doing this with you.
01:38:59
Speaker
is I got listened to a lot of true crime podcasts and stuff and they get down and gory about some details, right? And we do too. Yeah, I will. But we don't harp on those things. But at the end of the day, it's not.
01:39:17
Speaker
It's the end. It's always like we do play toward the victim like give that dad five minutes Yeah, give that mom five minutes and we're you know reading the victims list like it's about them But I did I had date as I was telling Brian I was like his name's David his real name's David Matthew Navarro. So in all my notes, I have David Thinking you wouldn't put it together. But as soon as I said Navarro and you're like, oh, I was like, oh shit Yeah, it's the last name that's gonna get me every time but
01:39:47
Speaker
Honestly, even if I had put that together at the very beginning, I had never heard the full story. That's why the case was so out there. He was famous when the death sentence hit 1992. He was big.
01:40:10
Speaker
So that is crazy. Yeah. They kept a lot of it under wraps for that. I think like it wasn't hugely publicized. You can't find a ton of pictures, which I'm fine with if he doesn't want. Um, his mom was beautiful and kudos to him because yeah, he did do drugs. Yeah. You know, the rocker, he's goth, whatever. Everybody, everybody always has their, uh, their go-to. Yeah. Some people find faith. Some people find drugs.
01:40:37
Speaker
Some people might have been a jerry, whatever. Some people exercise, some people are healthy, some people aren't with their coping mechanism. But the fact that he, because he's been sober, I want to say I had it written down and I left it. I want to say he's been sober for 15 years. He is still a rocker. He is still, you know, the sex symbol. And I love him on Ink Masters. I love him on Ink Masters. But I have so much more respect for him now.
01:41:04
Speaker
Like, I'll probably go watch All Ink Masters again from the beginning now. But not go live. Well, I mean, he was just real about it. Like, he wasn't... There was no... He didn't want the fame. He didn't want anything. He was like, this is what happened to me. Yeah. Publicize it. Publicize it.
01:41:21
Speaker
don't, I don't care. He did the doc. He did the story. He did morning sun because he said, like he said, I've got that the realist version. No, he didn't even, he, he wanted, he wanted his mom's story out there, but he said he's, like he said, he's one of those people that he has to face his fears and he let Dean live in his head. And when he got clean and everything else, like he had to face all of it. He had to go back to the condo. He had to go back and see all these things.
01:41:49
Speaker
he had to go face the man that did it. And when he was watching the 2004 America's Most Wanted and everything kind of hit him, he said it was divine intervention that saved his life because he should have been the one that died that night with his mom. He should have been there. He decided he's the one. His dad didn't say you have to stay. He decided the last minute, I'm just going to stay at dad's tonight. I'll see you tomorrow. Or he'd be dead. And he lived with all this guilt for all this time. And then it just kind of hit him before everybody puts it on themselves. Yeah.
01:42:18
Speaker
Everybody puts it on themselves. Damn, Faith, you got good tonight. This is probably, I think this is my favorite story that you've done. I literally, I heard this story about a thousand years ago. But I think this one's my favorite. I know we've had a lot of like the hero, I love it, but there's so much realism in this. It's different because you're hearing it from
01:42:45
Speaker
It's one of your own ones. Just do a search David Navarro's mom. You will not find a lot about Connie, but you will find a crap ton of articles about him talking about his mom. And now that he's faced the trauma and the fear and the ugliness, how he's able to view his mom now, he's got all this abstract art of his mother. He's had people paint his mother everywhere. He's got the tattoo. It's really cool.
01:43:14
Speaker
Like it's really good. I'm probably gonna watch Morning Sun. I didn't have time to see it before. I just found out about it today. I legitimately had a whole different story planned out and I accidentally happened upon this two days ago and was like, nope. But that's, this is the picture of the cover for Morning Sun.
01:43:37
Speaker
And it's his mom's face, trauma, pain, loss, murder. Yeah, she'll post it. Yeah, documentary. It's a documentary by Todd Newman is the director. And it says sometimes the only way around fear is to walk right through it. But there's also like his bandmates are in it.
01:43:54
Speaker
And there's pictures of them outside the condo that his mother's murdered and that he lived in. And they're like joking and laughing and cutting up. And there was like, some people were like, you know, he's standing right where his mom died and he's laughing. And he's like, I used drugs for a long time to deal with pain. I use humor now. And I want people to know it's okay to smile even when you're hurting. Which is hilarious. So good. To me, because like you look at the guys in the band
01:44:23
Speaker
And you think like, Oh yeah. Um, they don't laugh like, Oh, they were there. They're the cameras in the limo with them driving with the shirt off. It fleet.
01:44:37
Speaker
I think so. I don't know. I don't remember. Yeah, it is. Okay, thank you, Brian. But yeah, yeah, like, I mean, to think of them as these, like, warriors to help tomorrow is interesting. Yeah. And he's sitting there testifying in sentencing as a rock star.
01:44:54
Speaker
because he's legitimately a rock star talking about all this. And that's, I mean, he's got the black nail polish. Yeah. And he's having to tell them about being handcuffed in a bathroom, about listening to his mom scream. Where's David? Where's Dave? Tell me where Dave is.
01:45:09
Speaker
like lives through it all. Like it's, it's incredible. It's so fun. By using the middleman. Cause if you had said Dave at any point, I told Brian tomorrow, if you caught, if you were listening, like if you, when I was talking about, if I was listening, I was listening. I know you were, but if you had caught my faux pas after he was murdered, after she was murdered, I said, everybody in the neighborhood said,
01:45:37
Speaker
They feared him. But when I started that, I said, everyone in the neighborhood, they, they, because I was saying, because David is in all my notes. And when you hit Navarro head on, I was like, I'm going to have to call him Michael. And so I started trying to refer him to Michael, but I knew I was going to slip up. So I just started saying her son, the boy, her son, the boy, because I didn't know what else to do because I knew it was going to, I was going to screw myself at some point.
01:46:03
Speaker
Well, Navarro's not, you know. It's not a, it's not a dignity. It's not a normal name. So when you hear Navarro, the first one I'm going to hear is like, oh, Dave Navarro, like.
01:46:11
Speaker
I like the Chili Peppers and I also like A-crafters. He started that one band, his first band, I forget the name of it now, that I've tried to remember it, but he started that band three years after his mother was murdered. Something, I don't know. I can't remember his name now, but I can't remember its name now because it's not one that I knew really well, but I will probably look into that.
01:46:41
Speaker
Yeah, I'll probably try to listen to some of them now, but he's been on everything. He, Alanis Morr sets. He was the guitarist on that. He wrote, he helped write Gone in 62nd. He was a writer in SWAT. He was a writer in Twister.
01:46:56
Speaker
Um, he was a composer for entourage. He's been a Marilyn Marilyn Manson stuff. He was an executive director in the art protest. Like he's been in everything. He's been in so many things. I just pull up his, pull up his IMBD. Jane's addiction is his name. Sons of anarchy. He was part of that long order. He's been on that. Like this is what he made of himself when that was his childhood.
01:47:25
Speaker
And it could have gone so bad. Talk about like, like overcoming something and not using it as much. Cause he could have. And he did for a while. We've had this conversation a hundred times, right? When you're talking about like your childhood, how you grow up, what you look at, what you watch, like is it something you're born with? Or yeah. You know, nature versus nurture, right? Hey man.
01:47:54
Speaker
You got me so good. Oh, I'm so proud of you. I know. But yeah, no, it's super, super good. That was really good. Had you slipped up one time and said, David, I've been like, well, I'm telling you, I started to say his name because he's on the same. I still would have been totally, totally fissure. Well, I wouldn't. Yeah. I didn't know the whole story. Yeah. I didn't know.
01:48:19
Speaker
Like I could have known, oh, oh, Navarro. Well, I didn't want, yeah, but I didn't, I was gonna tell you at the beginning and most, I've listened to a lot of people tell this story at this point. And most of everyone tells you upfront, it is the David Navarro, Ink Master, David Carnelectra, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I didn't want it to be about him at the beginning. Like I didn't want it to be like, oh, that's David Navarro, that's the day, like he's the one in hand.
01:48:46
Speaker
Like I didn't want that to be, I just wanted it to be some kid that you don't know that's living through this and that's his mom. And then at the end, we did the story on, um, Oh man. I'm not going to remember it now. Nope. I hate it when that happens. She was the celebrity. They were all trapped on the beach. Uh, yeah. She was on, uh, charisma carpenter charisma. Yes. Now there's no way.
01:49:12
Speaker
No way I was going to remember that. Oh, I know it. I was a huge Buffy fan. I know you were. That's why I was like, Oh, yeah, but he's Dave's the one that said everyone in my neighborhood was afraid of him and everybody knew or he said, and I knew it wasn't going to end. But anyway, that's that is the story of Connie Navarro and her son, Dave Navarro. And it's amazing. And go watch Morning Sun. I'll post where you can stream it.
01:49:36
Speaker
Absolutely. Guys, it's 2023, almost 2024. We're having birthing pains into 2024. So if you are a man or a woman, I don't know where she's gone with this. I'm just going to turn it out there. And you are being stalked by somebody.
01:49:53
Speaker
or you feel like you could reach out to somebody. Don't keep it to yourself. And I am going to, in respect for Dave, I am going to put suicide hotline information in the show notes because that's big for him. And abuse women, if you don't mind. And that's why I say I'm a few days late. In October is domestic violence abuse awareness. And when Dave gave an interview once, because after he did Morning Sun, he went on Dr. Phil and talked about it. There's a whole episode.
01:50:23
Speaker
And he said it wasn't until he was doing Morning Sun that he realized this is a story of domestic abuse. He said he never realized that. Like the stalking is, stalking is everybody, everybody can look at this story and no stalking. He said he didn't realize like it might've not been physical abuse, but his mom was emotionally abused in a relationship. And so because October was, that's why I said, I'm posting this tonight. Cause we're only two days in November. I'm close enough for shoes and hand grenades.
01:50:53
Speaker
Um, anyway, yeah, I thought it was a really good story. I liked it. Why'd you have to question where I was going with that? I don't know, but you said we were having pains going into 2024. And if you're a man or woman, I thought you were going to be like, call this number to talk to us. And I was like, what are you doing? Are you didn't know if you're asking for resumes. I didn't know where Lisa, Brian show of hands in this, in this room, when Lisa starts broad statements, who worries about what's going to come next?
01:51:21
Speaker
shush he's not raising his hand because yeah yeah he knows he knows he wants a happy ending to that i don't care about a happy ending my happy ending is when i leave you so heck yes when you're open when you're doing open this is this is coming from the girl that said you know tool of the hunt or whoever used hummus' lube i don't know what's gonna come out of your mouth sometimes i don't remember his name glad the impeller that's close it was glad the impeller it was and you thought he used
01:51:50
Speaker
You said hun is for loom. Do you even know who Attila the Hun is? No. Faith! Obviously not. Oh my god, man. History channel! Okay, moral of the story is when you open your mouth, the main moral of the story is when you start talking and don't know where you're going, I fear. So when you're saying, attention, ladies and gentlemen, yes, I'm gonna say, I don't know where she's going, I'm sorry, it's offensive. Nine times out of ten, it's offensive. Okay, first of all, I'm right. Yes. Yeah. And I'm more politically correct than you, nine times out of ten.
01:52:20
Speaker
10 times out of 10. Also true.
01:52:23
Speaker
Either way. And when we, when I have to spend hours, when I have to spend, when I have to spend hours editing this podcast, whose fault is it? Yours. And you're like, I'm going to edit that out. Lisa, on the other hand, gets to sound like a whole huge pile of douche. Well, it's because you are a huge pile of douche, dude. Ding, ding, ding. Yeah. That's not a hundred percent. We argue on a lot.
01:52:53
Speaker
You, my dear, edit your crap. I left in the racist trash bag comment. It wasn't racist. You thought cum came in different colors. No, I thought you were saying that he was ejaculated on the white trash bag because he found it more appealing than the black trash bag. I don't know, okay?
01:53:17
Speaker
No, no, that is not what happened. That's what I thought in my mind. I'm telling you of my mind. Okay, here's the deal guys. You said- No, it wasn't a black guy. I don't even remember what color it was. You said, I hope it was a white trash bag. And I said, that's racist. I thought you meant like, I don't know that he thought that he was a jacket on the trash bag. I thought it was a trash bag. I don't know. When I called you out on that episode, I said straight up, do you think it changes colors?
01:53:42
Speaker
you got really quiet because i realized how stupid the whole conversation was just like now that must be it okay anyways if you would like to be a talk show on a podcast with me i'm sorry you want to be a talk show guys come on to our podcast i will edit that out
01:53:59
Speaker
It's not weird. I'm trying to replace you. You whore. We're done. You don't want to listen to this. So we're just going to talk over her. I'm going to unplug her mic in a minute. And, um, I hope you guys have a great night. She unplugged me and it doesn't matter because you're loud. She doesn't like people. So even if you apply, you're not getting hired.
01:54:26
Speaker
And I can't pay you anything. So it's not really getting hired so much as people willing to spend time with me and me willing to spend time with you. It's a whole big deal. Which is not going to happen. Correct. Well, this is moot. But thanks for tuning in. Hope you liked it. Go watch Morning Sun and let's get David Navarro because he is a attractive man. Uh-huh. That's all we got. Yeah. Bye. Have a good night.