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Amy Carnevale & Savanna Copeland - Two Lives Taken Too Soon
62 Plays9 days ago
In 1992 Amy Carnevale was a 14 year old girl, who loved cheerleading and had her whole life ahead of her. However, her life was cut short by her high school boyfriend, who was only 16. There were warning signs, but they were not heeded by anyone around. Now 32 years later, we have Savannah Copeland, a 13 year-old girl who also loved cheerleading and whose life was also taken tragically, by someone she called a friend. How to we protect our kids from their own friends? Let’s talk about it.
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Transcript
Introduction and Context
00:00:06
Speaker
Well, good day to all you tuning in and thank you for tuning in to Twisted Tales with Faith and Lisa. And I hope everyone is surviving the.
00:00:19
Speaker
turmoil of their choices in the election that has caused so much uproot in our people. But that's all I'll say. Also, I'm going to go ahead and apologize for the dogs. Mine doesn't play well with others because he's a little butthole. So, yep, my mom's little bark is real cute, though. My mom's dog and traumatized him as my official story. but So, truth be told, I had a whole nother story typed up and ready to go. OK.
00:00:47
Speaker
And I have switched at the last second. I have a legitimate reason for switching at the last second. and Sounds good. Which I will talk to you about at the end of this case. I'm gonna be honest, I'm exhausted, guys. So I've got no nothing. 100% understand. I got a horrific story.
00:01:06
Speaker
I think something has a fire going and it smells. I do smell a fire. Not great. I like fires. I do too, but not if it's like just straight burning of leaves. That's true. Good old Tennessee. Good old Tennessee.
Beverly's Economic Boom and Troubled Youth
00:01:20
Speaker
All right. Well, do we just want to dive into it then? We can. I'm going to have to try to kickstart my sense of humor right now because currently I have none.
00:01:27
Speaker
Well, you honestly really don't ever we just pretend with you. Oh, I feel good. I clearly you're on the point tonight. All right. So we are going to go back in our little way back machine. Not too far. 1992. Okay. I do love the nineties. Hell yeah. And we're going back to your old stomping grounds of mass. You know, super real quick. The, you know, I sent you that thing, the text message about the decades at Taco Bell. Yeah. Yeah. It's a real thing. It's a real thing. I know. I saw that. I totally got a maxi melt and was like in heaven.
00:02:02
Speaker
I don't know remember why as long as they don't discontinue the cheesy fiesta potatoes again those are my favorite I don't care I love Taco Bell your brother hates it you know what my brother's a turd anyway continue back to 1992 we are going to Beverly Massachusetts um which in this time period we're at, they've recently experienced an economic boom. It used to be mainly blue collar workers, but it's got some money flowing into it in 1992. And it's classified as like a mid to larger city. And it is in Massachusetts. Which city was it again? I'm so sorry. Beverly. Okay. Um, but it is considered a relatively safe place to live and a great place to raise a family.
00:02:45
Speaker
I guess in comparison with the rest of that garbage dump, I was going to say that shit heap. Yeah. So that's where we're at. And I know a fence guy. Sorry. ah She's from there. She can say that. Yeah, I can. We can find something wrong with every state. poter and find I find something wrong with everything you say. Go back to our summer, our summer road trip. And we literally have something bad to say about every state. So don't feel like, yeah, we're just negative people, I guess. You know, it is what it is.
Jamie's Background and Troubled Behavior
00:03:13
Speaker
Yep, so ah the story I tell you tonight starts with 16 year old Jamie Fuller and he has been in a relationship with his girlfriend, 14 year old Amy Carnivale for about two years at this point. So they've been dating since they were 14 and 12. He is about to enter his sophomore year at Beverly High School and was considered honestly just to be a troubled kid.
00:03:39
Speaker
so like 12 and 14. Their parents were like, yeah, cool. You can date. I guess so. Caleb keeps asking me when he can date like he has these girls that he calls his girlfriends and I'm like, dude, when do you have a job and you can you pick her up on a on a date without mommy taking you. Now, I will say when I was in third grade, I had a boyfriend and our big dates were to be dropped off at the Jennings Library together. So.
00:04:06
Speaker
I got you. Yep. But they've been dating for two years and he, like I said, he's a troubled kid. He's known to have these kind of violent outbursts and is currently in this point in the story on probation for quote unquote deadly assault with a weapon. Was he the 14 year old? He's the 16 year old. Jamie is the boy. and most sorry Yeah, you're good.
00:04:29
Speaker
So Jamie had a previous girlfriend, which was meant before the age of 14, mind you, um who had complained that he physically abused her during the relationship, stating that he would slap her on multiple occasions. And again, he's 11 or 12 when he's doing this.
00:04:49
Speaker
So Jamie currently lives with his mom. His parents had been divorced for several years prior. His dad's no longer in the area, honestly, no longer in the picture. And there's just not a lot of information on his parents, other than what I'll tell you later, um other than the fact that they're divorced and the dad's out of the picture, like that's it. So ah Jamie was fond of weightlifting.
00:05:14
Speaker
And a lot of people believe that he used steroids, which was the reason, quote unquote, for his aggressive behavior, because, you know, Freud rage at 16, but we'll go with it. So the principle of his medical. Oh, Jesus, that kind of night. so The principal at his middle school stated that he went through a period of aggressive behavior that went beyond the normal scope of adolescent behavior. So boys will be boys. We all know the saying, right?
00:05:44
Speaker
middle school to like early high school boys are the worst. Oh, yeah. Like, OK, for instance, my nephew, who's in kindergarten, let's just start there. It was his birthday the other day, the same birthday as your brother, and we didn't give him his presents. Frank, you want to be there because we got him a blowgun.
00:06:03
Speaker
Oh God, why would you do that? Because I'm that and you are that and so we got him a blowgun It was it's a smaller version than the one my brothers used to have Can we just we just let's just take a pause and jump into the way back machine. Yeah, that's where I'm going with this So my brothers in I mean older than then this is I mean we're talking all the way up through senior and high school up to some college years if tick-tock was a thing when my brothers were in middle school and high school, I would be a millionaire and not talking to you right now because I would have recorded their lives. It made tons of money because of all my followers. But besides the point, my brother, I can't disagree with that statement. You can't. Everyone I say that to is like 100 percent. Yes, you would be. Yes. My brothers.
00:06:49
Speaker
bought a five-foot blowgun, metal blowgun. yeah And they bought all these things to shoot out of it. Some were needles, like like a needle you get a shot with. Some they're called the spike, and it's like a legit nail that you nail on the floor. And they would play rock, paper, scissors to see who got shot with one of these. Now I'm not exaggerating on this nail. They once missed and hit the double pain gle ah window double pane window downstairs and shattered it.
00:07:19
Speaker
My dad was thrilled. So I got River a blowgun and Zach was like, oh, the memories. So boys are dumb. Like, yeah, they're just dumb. Yeah. Girls are so smart too. When you shot me in the back with said blowgun. You said I could. I have a video. I'll find it and load it. But you said I could. That was your dumb. That was your dumbest thing.
00:07:40
Speaker
I didn't think it'd be that bad. So, but what I'm saying is the boys are aggressive, like naturally, they're rough, they're tumbly. Oh yeah. Things that they do to each other, I would be bleeding, crying in a corner. Right. Girls are like, we probably shouldn't jump off this. And they're like, I bet I can make it. Yeah. So that's what I just want to tell you that because when the the principal says he was more aggressive in his behavior than you'd normally expect. So that's, in my opinion, pretty darn aggressive.
00:08:07
Speaker
um His girlfriend on the other hand Amy proves that opposites attract is all I can say. um She's 14 years old and she was described as popular, outgoing, friendly. She dreamed of becoming a hairdresser because she thought she had this natural ability to cut and style people's hair. She enjoyed playing golf with her dad at the country club a couple times a week. um Her dad said that like anytime they'd play golf at the country club, people would always remark about how kind and sweet and just what a great kid she was basically. And she was also a cheerleader.
00:08:40
Speaker
ah Her principle described her as a terrific kid, a mecca of social activity. So one plus s one does not equal two. Her parents, um Amy's, are also divorced. They've been divorced for about eight years. Her dad, Michael, taught high school there in the city. Her mom, Cynthia, had remarried to Robert. And her mom, her and her brother had actually moved away about 10 minutes to a town called Danvers in August. But in August 1991, Amy and her mom had moved back to Beverly and were currently staying with friends as her mom and stepdad were separated.
00:09:20
Speaker
getting divorced. Amy was really excited to start her freshman year at high school after this summer. They moved back, you know, she's excited to start. She'd already tried out for the high school cheerleading squad. She made the JV squad like she's ready. So how did someone like Amy end up with someone like Jamie? Well, as most abusive little shits, I'm sure he didn't show history colors right away.
Signs of Abuse and Public Observations
00:09:49
Speaker
I don't have a good reason. There wasn't a lot of I'm literally sitting here thinking how you could merge their names together. way out i mean ah Yeah, without it still being the same name. Yeah. You can't really know. No, sorry. So in August, 1991, Amy, like I said, was staying with her mom's friend, Diane Wagner, and her and her mom are just waiting for the rental house to be ready at this point. They already have the move scheduled for September 5th, 1991, right there when she's starting ah ah freshman year.
00:10:19
Speaker
Kept trying to say sophomore, but he's a sophomore. She's a freshman. I thought, did you just say 51? 1991. September 5th, 1991. I could have said it. Who knows what comes out of my mouth. I don't pay attention. Well, I'm trying to pay attention, but... So, over the course of their relationships, their relationship, friends would state that it was not uncommon for Jamie to be physically aggressive with Amy. Sorry.
00:10:47
Speaker
He was choked on my spit. I'm sorry, but you still couldn't even get it out, right? No. You're like, starry. He would start by telling her what she couldn't, couldn't do, where she couldn't, couldn't go, who she could talk to. Sorry, my voice is going to be messed up for like five minutes. I was just going to say, did you sip of something? No, it's just where my vocal cords, like anytime I get choked like that, it happens. He was said to be very jealous and possessive and he treated Amy like she was his property.
00:11:18
Speaker
But as most of these relationships go, as soon as he would overstep too much, he'd start love bombing her, showering her with compliments, apologizing for his actions. It's amazing how a kid that young knows how to work it. What's the standard playbook for abusive a-holes? Yeah. By August 1991, the relationship was on rocky territory. um Friends witnessed him grabbing her arm, and one even said they watched her just get slapped.
00:11:47
Speaker
When they would start to argue, Jamie would physically block her from leaving by standing in front of her. And these were the things he felt comfortable doing in front of others. So you can't convince me it's not worse when they're alone. Right.
00:12:02
Speaker
um He was not just comfortable with committing these actions in front of others. though, he would actually brag about it. He would laugh about it with his friends, telling them that he, what he'd done to her, he joked about her being his property. He joked about one day killing her, stating he was over her shit. Multiple of his friends stated that Jamie stated he would kill Amy and had even heard Jamie tell Amy that he would kill her to her face. That's a friggin' mouthful. It is a friggin' mouthful. I'm sorry. The Jamie Amy, I'm gonna just call him Fuller from now on, because it's Jamie Fuller.
00:12:36
Speaker
J and A, dude. yeah Just be done with it. So, but you know, he's bragging about all this and he's saying he's going to kill her. But again, they're young. So literally no one takes this. I mean, how many times a day do I tell your brother I'm going to kill you all the time?
00:12:49
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's I feel like in context and out of context, like it is. But even when you're like mad at someone, you're like, I'm just going to kill them. Like, you don't a bunch of 15, six aren't going to take this as like Bible. Right. You know what I mean? It's totally not what it's like now. Yeah. You're right. um So ah friends would describe like all their friends would describe their relationship as intense and passionate.
00:13:17
Speaker
Even if it was a little unhealthy, which I did hear, um, one of the, I was listening to a podcast about this and they made a really good point, which I 100% buy into because all their friends said that their relationship, well, you know, it was a little unhealthy, but it was passionate and intense.
00:13:36
Speaker
And that's what we see in movies and in books and in TV shows ye is that to have a true life love story, you've got to have all this drama and this craziness going on. And it's just rubbish. And I love what the girl said. She said, you want to know the sign of a healthy relationship? Peace. Yeah. That's the sign of a healthy relationship.
00:14:00
Speaker
not arguing and all this drama and craziness, just peace. Like you enjoy each other's company. Does that mean there are going to be times like you don't want to throw punch someone? No, right. But it shouldn't be every day when I was still like in my well maybe in my 20s. I don't remember when that Eminem and Rihanna song came out. Yeah. Everyone free and loved it. Yeah. And I was like, why does why does anyone listen to this song and think I want this for my life? Like,
00:14:29
Speaker
Fifty Shades of Grey. He's a possessive crazy person, yeah but it's got some kink sex in there, so it's everyone's favorite. yeah Let's not look at the fact that he's literally emotionally manipulating her, yeah gaslighting her all the time because he just loves her so much. He can't, you know what I mean? like But that's what we see in movies and books and TVs.
00:14:51
Speaker
And so they- Well, is it the first time I saw Twilight? I'm like, he's a fucking stalker. Yeah, he's a stalker. I'm sorry, but like- A hundred percent. I'm gonna be honest with you. But- Everyone's like, oh, it's so romantic. No. Exactly. And Jacob was no better. No. None of them were.
00:15:07
Speaker
No, he just played on I'm going to get myself injured and yeah try to get myself killed. So she'll love me. How how is that emotionally good for a youth? It's not. And I I've got a little new little soapbox that I feel like we need to normalize the practice of see something, say something. Yeah. And we always say that like if you see a crime, you say something. Right. But if you have a friend in this type of emotional or physically abusive relationship, you need to say something.
00:15:37
Speaker
And if they don't listen to you, you need to go above their head. If it's a teenager, you go to their freaking parents. You go to a teacher, you go to a principal. If it's an adult, you still go to their siblings, you get your friend group together, you do an intervention. You don't just say, oh, well, they'll figure it out. Yeah, they'll grow out of it or whatever. No, they won't because that guy or that girl is going to continue to emotionally abuse them, isolate them to where you're no longer their friend and you don't have an input in their life anymore and it's too late for you to do a dang thing to help them. I even remember being a kid where my parents straight up were like, I don't want you hanging out with that kid. And I wasn't allowed. Yep, pretty much. Yeah. So according to the American Psychological Association, up to 19% of teenagers experience dating violence, including physical violence, sexual violence or stalking.
00:16:25
Speaker
that now or That is no, that is a current statistic. 19% girls and young women between 19 sorry, it was 16 and 25 experience intimate partner violence almost at triple the rate of the national average. So But just to show you how normalized we have made this type of relationship and this type of situation, back to the current story. um The local women's crisis center actually went to Belleville Middle School where Amy was in middle school.
00:17:00
Speaker
and they did like their you know their little talk and they put on a skit that way to show you how to recognize signs of abuse. right And when during the skit, when the boyfriend yelled and slapped the girlfriend, the audience there started cheering for him. what This is in the 90s. Yes, this is in the 90s. But it's still like, no one saw, no one was like, they all thought, they cheered him on. So,
00:17:27
Speaker
Number one, this is not an environment I want my daughter to grow up in or be a part of. Number two, this little girl's 14 years old and she's living this and she's watching her classmates cheer on the abuser. So who the heck is she going to go to for support? Well, so here's the weird part, too, is it's the 90s. Yeah. Like, I'm sorry, guys, but we're where where the freedom started ringing for most people was in the 90s.
00:17:55
Speaker
Gays were getting their rights. Not women. It wasn't until the Me Too movement that it really got out there. And that was in the 2000s. But I mean, even still, yeah domestic violence was a thing. People don't talk about teenage violence that often. That's true. And I just can imagine you're watching the skit as a 14 year old. You're a baby. Your boyfriend's slapping you around. Your boyfriend's doing all this stuff and everyone around you that you're friends with is cheering him on.
00:18:23
Speaker
And you know, they watch your boyfriend do it. So who do you go to for help? An adult. Yeah, I would. ah Well, I don't know. I would hope I would. But honestly, like once you hit those teen years, your relationship with your kid is just so different. It is. I was even trying to talk to Caleb about it some things last night and he just was incredibly and uncomfortable by the topic. Didn't want to talk to me about it at all. Yeah. And it's it is not easy parenting. It's not.
The Murder of Amy Carnivale
00:18:54
Speaker
So let's agree that Jamie Fuller is a bad guy and a worse boyfriend. I think everybody at this point can conclusively 100% say here, here. Okay. On August 22nd, 1991, Amy took a trip to the local beach in Gloucester, which I'm probably mispronouncing. Gloucester. There you go.
00:19:14
Speaker
With a few friends, there were two boys and two girls, plus herself, though. The other one was Danvers. Danvers. I knew you'd know the name and pronunciations correctly. Sorry. So in the months leading up to this trip, Amy and Fuller were off again, on again in their relationship, which honestly seemed to be the normal course of this volatile relationship.
00:19:34
Speaker
They would have these months where they were in this toxic relationship, then they would break up, they'd start dating other people, and then they'd get back together after a while and continue this cycle. The main difference is that when Amy started dating someone else,
00:19:50
Speaker
Jamie Fuller would absolutely lose his mind. I was just gonna say, I bet you money. He like went into stalker freak mode. Because he was allowed to date to other people, but she certainly was not. No, she still has property. Yeah. Buying rights. So when he found out that Amy took the speech trip, they were off again.
00:20:08
Speaker
and he had had a enough. It was at this point that he told his friends, I'm getting sick of this. I swear I'm going to kill her. This shit has to stop. She won't be around to go out with anyone anymore. I'm going to effing kill her. And his friends honestly didn't think he would do anything about it. And he was blowing off steam because he's been saying this for forever, right?
00:20:31
Speaker
So the next day on August 23rd, 1991, Jamie Fuller spent the morning, according to his mom, downing whiskey. He is the 16 year old to remind you, but OK, yeah, they owned a bunch of what they sat there drinking.
00:20:46
Speaker
after this day of drinking um because again Amy went to the beach just a day trip she's already back home the next day so he just called Amy over and over and over and over trying to get her to come see him she either didn't answer she hung up she refused but he just was relentless and he finally was able to convince her to come over when he asked her can you come cut my hair because again That's her passion. That's what she's good at. That's what she loves. So he's just doing anything he can to manipulate her. yeah However, once she got there, the haircut is not what was on the schedule and trigger warning. If you do not want to hear what's going to happen, fast forward about five minutes. It's not especially brutal, but it is a 14 year old girl. So it bothers you. Give it about five minutes. Um, I will try. I will ask Lisa to hold commentary while I get through it and then she can come back.
00:21:40
Speaker
So once there, Jamie and two of his friends um go for a walk in the woods near the middle school where, again, Amy had literally just graduated. Prior to getting there, Jamie told his friends that he was gonna kill her today and even invited them to come along. One of his friends there that day, Mark D, responded with, you don't have the balls to do it. And Jamie told him, you'll see. Which again, these are 15 to 16 year olds. They're just smack talking to each other.
00:22:09
Speaker
But I want to go back to previous statement. Let's normalize doing and saying the right things in these situations. Yeah. So even if your friend says, that's it, I'm going to kill today, your response should be that's not funny. Cut it out. Not you don't have the balls to do this. Yeah. And then straight go to your parents and say, hey, this is what Jamie said today. I'm sorry, but it was weird. And yeah, I'm yeah'm not a fan.
00:22:33
Speaker
So Jamie led Amy into the woods and once they got to the woods, he just led her a little deeper and covered her mouth as he told her he loved her and then proceeded to stab her in the stomach.
00:22:45
Speaker
He said his words in trial was that he then went behind her and pushed the knife in deeper into her abdomen until he knew he could feel that the knife tip was bending. Amy tried her hardest to make a run for it. And honestly, she did fight like hell. She bit into his hand and took off running. But before she could get too far, he grabbed her hair, halting her and drug her back by her hair.
00:23:11
Speaker
While holding her um by the hair, he slit her throat and continued to stab her in total around 10 times. Amy fell to the ground, and as she did, she repeated, I love you, Jamie. I love you, Jamie. But this bought her no mercy from her attacker. As Jamie said, again, in his words at trial, the sound of her gurgling on her own blood as she as she was dying, sound of her gurgling on her own blood pissed him off. So he stomped on her until she stopped.
00:23:41
Speaker
His friends that were there, not like right there, but that were theirs, named Mark D and Michael M, heard her screams coming from the woods, but neither went to see what was going on. Even though they had just been told, I'm going to kill her today, and then you hear her screaming, they sat there and did nothing. And this is right outside the middle school. Once Jamie had done that, stomped on her and killed her, he walked back out, covered in Amy's blood,
00:24:12
Speaker
and bragged to his friends, even showing them the tip of the knife where it had bent. They said that he had a smirk on his face as he emerged from the woods stating, it's done, that bitch shouldn't have messed with me. The three boys then walked to another friend's house where Jamie washed the blood off himself. He then made himself a glass of red Kool-Aid stating, this is right for the occasion.
00:24:35
Speaker
Jamie looked at his friends and said, if you ever say anything, you'll be next. Which I assume at this point, they actually took him for his word and listened to the threat behind it. hello Jamie eventually, that same day, took his friend Michael M to the scene so he could show off Amy's dead body lying there in the woods. Jamie enlisted and or threatened these friends to help him dispose of the body.
00:25:00
Speaker
They gathered two trash bags, two cinder blocks, and some lobster line. And Jamie and Michael M then wrapped Amy in two trash bags, connected the cinder blocks to her with the lines, and threw her into shoe ponds. As her body was sinking to the bottom, and you could probably still feel like the water rippling or whatever, Michael said, Jamie, watch. It just said, sucks to be you, Amy. Absolutely no remorse.
00:25:30
Speaker
No nothing, no second thought, no freaking out, you're a 16 year old that just violently murdered someone and nothing, just cocky, arrogant, and might I say, in my my opinion, that is not anywhere professional, but my opinion, slightly sociopathic.
00:25:48
Speaker
Yeah. Amy was immediately reported missing by her family and repeat, police started looking for her, but they approached this situation as a teenage runaway.
00:26:00
Speaker
Her dad and stepmom fought against this ideology, telling them her purse is here, all her belongings are there, she has no money, no means to run away. She went nowhere, something happened to her, find my kid. um The kids in the area were all asked if they knew where Amy was, but all denied seeing her up until the point she had disappeared, including the boys that were there standing very close to where she was murdered and they listened to it.
00:26:27
Speaker
There were missing posters, missing people's posters that went up all over town immediately. Search parties were formed and mobilized immediately, and the entire town came together to help find this missing 14-year-old girl. No one did. In five days of nothing, and five days since she's last been seen and was brutally murdered, Michael M., Jamie's 19-year-old friend, walked into a police station, said, I know what happened to her. I'm going to take you to the body.
00:26:58
Speaker
and the police recovered Amy's body, and when they did, it was stated that it was like a bomb went off that in that town and everyone could feel the shockwaves. like if i could just and am i allowed You're allowed to go now, because we're done with a bru the brutal the brutal part. So that kid Michael, right? Yep, it was 19. 19, yeah. And he heard her scream. But could you imagine being in his shoes?
00:27:27
Speaker
And then finally being like, enough's enough. I know exactly what happened. Yeah. And like your soul. You they all like it's gone. They all watch people searching for. Yeah. They probably helped. Yeah. That's insane.
Investigation and Arrest
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah. um Nothing like this had ever happened. The only thing similar was two years prior, there was a 16 year old girl that had been shot and killed by her own mom. But that was the only comparable crime.
00:27:56
Speaker
This was a safe place to raise your family. This was a good place to raise your family. So the whole town, like it was like it wasn't even panic. It was like no one knew what to do. yeah Jamie Fuller was arrested the same day his friend Michael M turned him in and took him to Amy's body. The arresting officers would state that he had a smug smirk on his face as they led him away.
00:28:24
Speaker
He was initially charged with delinquency, which is a prerequisite for juvenile offenders in the state of Massachusetts. And Jamie pled not guilty to the charge of delinquency first degree murder charges. Michael M. was charged as an accessory after the fact. Accessory after the fact, he helped dispose of the body. OK, thank you. And he was sentenced in two years in prison as part of his plea deal to give up. What about the other kid that heard her scream? He did not help dispose of the body.
00:28:52
Speaker
And I think Michael M was the only one that was like, that that saw the body and helped with the body. The others were there. I think there should have been some repercussions, but Michael M was the one. Was there a term for that though? What? Witnessing your crime and not intervening. Bystander effect. I think it's bystander something. Bystander effect. You can't be charged with it because you didn't do anything wrong. I mean, you did, but legally, I guess.
00:29:19
Speaker
So, Jamie Fuller originally denied any involvement when he was first questioned in Amy's death. He even blamed his friends for it. He was ordered to undergo a 30-day psychiatric evaluation at the State Department of Youth Services.
00:29:35
Speaker
After that, he was charged as an adult in her murder, which, huzzah, that's correct. No kidding. And honestly, this guy this guy was a ticking time bomb and gonna kill somebody eventually if it wasn't aimed. Right. And did you say it was first degree? First degree murder as an adult. He started beating up his girlfriends when he was 11 and 12. I was not apt. Hell, nobody. Yeah. Where was a dad? Where was one of these girls' dads who just have beat the piss out of this kid? Yeah. Because Frankie would.
00:30:05
Speaker
He'll do time. He'll do time. He doesn't care. He'll tell you. I mean, truth be told, though, based on what you were saying about this kid, I don't think it would have affected the date. Oh, no. No, he was again. He may have gotten his butt kicked a couple of times, you know, by a parent or whatever, but I don't think it would have slowed him down. I have no degree to give this diagnosis, but he's a sociopath. He can't convince me otherwise. So.
00:30:27
Speaker
Um, when his friends asked him why he killed her, he stated he didn't want her, but he didn't want anybody else to have her either. That's your reason. That's like stalker one oh one. Yeah. Right. I'm serious. Right. Yeah. So during the seven day trial, the defense relied heavily on the steroid abuse as the reason for his aggression and his action. Oh, Roy Gray, Roy Gray.
00:30:51
Speaker
Um, they said like Chris Benoit, yeah, that murdered his entire family. You know, I'm going to look up to see when Chris Benoit was because I want to say it was in the 90s and I don't know how close it was to this case. I don't remember because I don't think it was in the 90s. Oh, I think it was in the 2000s. I don't know. I get dates messed up, but I meant I didn't mean to look that up.
00:31:17
Speaker
doesn't know either
00:31:22
Speaker
so
00:31:26
Speaker
okay it was in 2007 sorry you're fine but lookout we just need to look that up but that that that was the defense i mean they they relied heavily on it they said that not even two years prior he was a small shy quiet boy but in the time he was started using these steroids he gained 30 pounds and became an asshole essentially which If anybody gains 30 pounds or not happy, this is muscle. It's what he wanted. And you can be slightly aggressive, but... Even as a kid, though, you chose to take the pill. You did, and... Sorry, my dog's really being a butt. And full disclosure... I worked at a gym, Lisa did too, and I knew a lot of people who did roids. And guess what? None of them killed anybody. None of them beat anybody up. I mean, roid rage is a thing. It is a thing. It's 100% a thing. But this kid was a sociopath. He'd have done it with a robot. There was already something going on there. And then mixing something like that in its destruction. I honestly think it would have happened at some point without the roids. Didn't matter. Yeah. They also argued that he drank all the time
00:32:29
Speaker
becoming aggressive and argumentative. And this is where they start to blame his behavior on from his childhood, stating his mother was an alcoholic, and she battled depression, and his rage came from his father ah abandoning him, boo-hoo. His mother stated that she you know the morning she found him drinking all that whiskey, she grounded him and said he couldn't leave the house all day.
00:32:56
Speaker
Oh, no. But, you know, after a little while of hearing his whiny butt, she said, all right, just go do whatever. And she did that and he murdered Amy Carnivale. Carnivale, same day. I'm not saying it's the mom's fault. It's obviously this kid's fault. But do better. You catch your 16 year old drinking whiskey. There needs to be some kind of repercussion. Yeah, especially because he's still probably lit. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, hey, man, I don't want to see your face go into the public that way. Yeah.
00:33:23
Speaker
yeah as Correct. The defense also used the argument that he suffered from a depressive disorder called dysthymia, which can cause feelings of sadness, anxiety, or emptiness, causes the person suffering it to lose interest in normal daily activities. It reduces the ability to concentrate, think, or make decisions.
00:33:45
Speaker
have a low self-esteem and overall feeling of inadequacy. It's currently been relabeled to persistent depressive disorder, or PDD. That sounds like every working mother. Yeah. hu um used just say You're not wrong. I might have the urge to slit somebody's throat, and it doesn't mean, no, I'm totallyline i'm sorry. So his his lawyers you know really hit hard on that this dysthymia combined with his alcohol abuse impaired his ability to you impaired his ability to appreciate the wrongfulness of his conduct. However, his previous girlfriend had already testified that this is untrue. He was slapping her around before he ever touched alcohol or ever did steroids.
00:34:28
Speaker
nice When he was 14 and he abused her, there was no alcohol. There's no steroids. Also, it is an unfortunate but true fact in the world. There are millions of people who suffer from depression.
00:34:43
Speaker
Like you just said, every working mom suffers from this basically, and they don't brutally murder their significant others. So that, to me, that's, that's a bunch of horror horse, horse crap, that defense. Yeah. It's a justification that crap. Truth be told. Like, let's just, let's just pause for like five seconds and like do a little role reversal here.
00:35:02
Speaker
OK, let's just say Jamie was beating the shit out of her all the time. She had enough and she stabbed him in the gut. Yeah, she would still be facing second degree murder for her choices.
00:35:15
Speaker
He plotted this shit out. Oh, yeah. Admitted to doing it. Mm hmm. Consequence. Well, I mean, he didn't. This isn't like this wasn't a void rage, psychotic little thing. He wasn't a rage, but he bragged about his actions. yeah He planned his actions. This was about his control. Yeah. And it was premeditated.
00:35:35
Speaker
What do we call it with, there was that one case, he wasn't feeble-minded. No. It's not like he didn't understand it. Even if you are drunk. No, he understood exactly. Or you're on drugs, you still know the difference between right and wrong. He talked about it for weeks. Sober. Your ability to care may not be there. And he doesn't have that. Yeah. That's the problem. Correct. So. You still have a conscious when you're jacked up. You're just maybe not as willing to, what's what I'm looking for?
00:36:06
Speaker
I don't know. um Keep it quiet, I guess. Yeah. So the defense had three different psychologists that all testified that it was the alcohol and stare steroid abuse that led to this murder 100%. If it wasn't, if there wasn't alcohol and steroids never would have happened.
00:36:23
Speaker
Fortunately, the prosecution had experts of their own that testified that while Jamie did abuse alcohol, he was not dependent on it.
Trial and Sentencing
00:36:31
Speaker
He was not an alcoholic. He didn't use it every day. And he did not suffer from major depression. Moreover, his actions the day of the murder were not consistent with what happens when one takes steroids. They also found no manic or depressive symptoms that might have been related to steroid abuse. Really?
00:36:51
Speaker
Dr. Martin Kelly's testimony, along with multiple witnesses of friends and people around who testified on the abuse that they witnessed, which again, they said nothing at the time that could have actually been helpful. well They waited until it's a murder trial, but be that as it may, was enough to convince the jury that Jamie Fuller was guilty of first degree murder.
00:37:14
Speaker
Because he was tried as an adult, he was able to be sentenced as an adult and received life in prison without the possibility of parole. Jamie did try to appeal his sentence in 1995, but was denied And the judge stated the following, the legislature has determined that this grievous penalty is appropriate where a life has been taken in a manner that constitutes first degree murder and has also determined that even one as young as Fuller may be subject to the severest of punishments, which in my personal opinion, the severest of punishments is the death penalty. So he already got off a little light, yeah but we're not going to go down that road. We will not.
00:37:57
Speaker
Prior to Jamie's appeal in 1995, where the judge made that statement, his mom had already been charged with a plot to break him out of prison. So he was charged with all this in 1991. In 1993, his mother and her boyfriend were arrested because they had planned for Jamie to cut himself with a razor blade deeply enough that he would have to be transferred to a hospital for treatment on this, quote unquote, attempted suicide.
00:38:28
Speaker
Where Celeste Fuller and her boyfriend, Edward Goldfield were attempting to hire two gunmen who would ambush the guards on the way to the hospital with the small Uzi that they had purchased. What? Yep. This is the breakout attempt. His mom planned this breakout attempt. He'd been in jail two years. and Okay. Um. But. His mother. Yes. His mother and her boyfriend. but that small Uzi they purchased, they purchased it by an undercover ATF officer. So real quick, can we just stop there for like eight seconds? Yep. As a mob, both of us. Both of us. Yep.
00:39:04
Speaker
I wouldn't. You do the crime, you pay the time bro. that's I hate it for you, I'll be there for you, I love you, I'll support you. Dude, you do the crime, you take you pay the time. That was like that one case I told you I wanted to do, but it was really like, I don't know, it just bothered me too much to do it. That mom, even though she knew, at any moment her son would be let out, or could get let out.
00:39:25
Speaker
um She knows, and she's straight up said, yeah, he'll kill me. I know he'll kill me, but I still go visit him because he's my son. 100% would be down that avenue, right? But not, no, no. Kid killed somebody brutally two years ago, and I'm gonna break you out. And the other way that I'm talking about straight upset, he needs to never be out of prison. So they bought this Uzi from an undercover ATF officer, obviously not knowing it,
00:39:55
Speaker
But because they were dumb. um The cops obviously know there's going to be a breakout attempt. So it's like they posted it on social media. yeah It wasn't there back then. Right. More bad luck. The henchmen they hired to hijack the guards transporting Jamie Fuller to the hospital were actually undercover police officers because, again, they'd been tipped off to the ski.
00:40:19
Speaker
Basically, she went to the Black Web and typed in www.murderforhire.com. And then posted an article on what? Yoo-hoo? Is that what it's called? Yahoo. Yahoo. So all three pled guilty of this this scheme. Jamie Fuller had nine and a half years added to his sentence, which was to be served concurrently with his current life sentence.
00:40:43
Speaker
His mom Celeste was sentenced to 14 months in prison as well. Didn't say anything about her boyfriend, but he was charged.
Parole Possibility and Family's Fight
00:40:51
Speaker
Amy's mom during this time did an interview and what she said was so good.
00:40:57
Speaker
because this, Celeste did this after a year and a half of her son on being in prison. right And Amy's mom said she can literally go see her son every day. And I don't get that option. This is just adding salt to our wounds. Which how do you argue that statement? You can go see your son in flesh and blood person. You can talk to him every day. She'll never see her kid again.
00:41:22
Speaker
um Unfortunately, in 2013, Jamie Fuller did get a break when the Supreme Court gave their famous ruling that went down stating life sentences without the possibility of parole to any juvenile offender convicted of first degree murder was unconstitutional because their brains were not developed, which meant Jamie Fuller was now eligible for parole. Are you shitting me?
00:41:46
Speaker
March 2019 was supposed to be his first official parole hearing and um it got canceled and it was supposed to be rescheduled and no date had been said to be rescheduled. um Mainly two reasons. Number one, there's a huge outcry from everyone for him even having the possibility ability of getting parole after what he did to that girl. Number two is 2019 and what happened in 2020. The Rona. So you're staying where you're at.
00:42:15
Speaker
yeah Um, I did do some research and he is still in jail. His parole was denied in April, 2023. I believe Amy's mom died in 2009. Thankfully she was not alive when this ruling came down. So she died knowing he would stay in jail forever for his crime. She did not die knowing he had the possibility of parole. Okay. However, her cousin was present when this ruling came down and when he was able to get
00:42:46
Speaker
go up for parole. And she stated about her cousin Amy's mom. She really struggled following Amy's murder. And hearing the details of this crime every day at trial over and over was just too much for her and she never recovered, which, same. No kidding. um They stated that she died a heartbroken However, the family still actively writes victim impact statements, speaking out anytime they possibly can to try to block any chance of parole for Jamie Fuller ever. They also have a Facebook page, which I'll link obviously in our show, and it's called Justice for Amy Carnivale. And they don't just they don't just petition for Amy. Any case where family's involved, they set up a petition for people to sign against parole, write statements,
00:43:36
Speaker
So they try to act um advocate as much as they can for other families whose family members have been brutally murdered. It's a shorter story, but I'm telling you the story for a reason.
Savannah Copeland's Tragic Story
00:43:50
Speaker
So, and I found out about this at work last week. I live in Knoxville, Tennessee. About, let's say 15 minutes, maybe max, if you got a little bit of traffic. There's a city called Powell, Tennessee. yep And there's a family they're currently suffering. Savannah Copeland, our van, as her family called her, is a 13-year-old girl who was shy but loved scary movies.
00:44:20
Speaker
I remember when she went missing. Her father stated Van was a lot like him. And though she was an introvert, she'd recently changed a little as she joined the cheerleading team. And when she was on the sidelines of the football field or basketball court, she shined brightly. She loved gymnastics, but was very fond of tumbling, which is why cheerleading became the obvious place for her to fit in.
00:44:45
Speaker
She loved being out there and her father stated that the family all attended Powell Middle School games to cheer on their little cheerleader. It was actually at a game watching Van cheer on October 21st, 2024. And that was the last time Michael and his wife and their two sons would see her alive. Michael stated the next morning he went to work like normal until his wife called him and said when she called the kids down to get ready for the day, Van wasn't there and she wasn't in her room.
00:45:15
Speaker
The family immediately scoured the area around their home, around the Broadacres neighborhood and the wooded area surrounding because they had tracked her phone and that's where it showed her to be, trying to find her. It was only a short 12 hours later that they would receive a knock on the door by detectives stating Savannah's body was discovered along a trail close to where her phone had glass paint.
00:45:40
Speaker
Her father Michael stated it's a surreal feeling that for a moment you don't feel like it's real, but you expect to just wake up. And unfortunately, that wasn't the case. It was very real for this family. Investigators said that Savannah was stabbed several times with a pocket knife and left to die alone in the woods.
00:46:00
Speaker
And within hours the detectives named a suspect a 15 year old boy who was friends with not only Savannah but her family and his name was Malika Harris or his name is Malika Harris. Her father stated we have a lot of sympathy for him and wanted to help be a part of loving him and just showing him love and care. There was a lot of conflicting um conflicting emotions, of course. The natural one has been moved towards anger and rage towards him, but this is also someone we cared about. Like they took him to their family because he had a bad life or a bad situation, whatever, yeah and they made a part of their family.
00:46:37
Speaker
The family still doesn't have answers as to why their daughter was murdered. The family's currently just focused on getting her justice, and they have not spoken with the suspect as of this time. They said it's not time for that. Michael, her father, who's also the name of Amy's dad, yep stated, I've gone over in my head a few times if I really want to sit down with him at some point face to face. And I think at some point, maybe 10 years, maybe three years from now,
00:47:05
Speaker
But yeah, I'm gonna look him in the eyes and ask, given and all the effort that we put into you, the care we gave you, did it just mean nothing? Yeah. It's been determined he will be charged with second degree murder as of 24 hours ago. yeah um If he will be tried as an adult is yet to be seen and something, obviously I will let you know as information comes out about this case. It's too new now. There's been no trial. Not a lot of information out there currently. No, there's nothing out there right now. The only reason I know about this case is one of my coworkers' daughter goes to school with Savannah and Malik. Oh.
00:47:43
Speaker
and um You didn't see that all over the news because my life is a dumpster fire, but yeah she told her mom.
Recognizing and Preventing Teen Violence
00:47:52
Speaker
That she had said several times there was something wrong with this boy. He didn't seem right.
00:47:57
Speaker
It's one of those like intrinsic feelings you get about someone, whether it's their dead eyes or you just get that feeling, you know? I'm sorry. I hate to say it this way. I think it's, I call it women's intuition and I don't care how old you are. I think kids have it too. Yeah. I think men kind of grow out of it to a certain extent. well Because they can they're not as they're not as vulnerable.
00:48:20
Speaker
But she told her mom, you know. But I also can look at a guy and he'll tell you straight out, that guy's a creeper, stay the hell away from him. But she told her mom something was wrong with him, that she had said several times, because she shares the class with this kid, that something just wasn't right. But the thing for me is, people could tell something was wrong with him, but these people did try to help.
00:48:48
Speaker
Yeah, they did reach out and they paid a heavy price. They didn't want to pay. Yeah. So it was in Savannah Copeland's honor. I wanted to share the story of Amy Carnivale, two girls who were young, just starting a life who loved their family and loved cheerleading, who were killed by people who were equally as young and with their whole lives ahead of them. Yeah. These kids both had both both perpetrators had warning signs for others to see.
00:49:16
Speaker
And those are either excused or ignored. And we cannot, for the sake of our children, continue to stand by and say, let boys be boys or any other of that nonsense when we hear something. Girls are just as bad in this day and age. That's what I'm saying. Like those girls, they were in like what, middle school or high school where they trapped that one little girl, beat the shit out of her. Yeah. And then posted it on YouTube.
00:49:39
Speaker
Yeah, so I told you previously the statistic of 19% of teenagers experience violent relationships and honestly to hear that statistic 19% doesn't sound that bad.
00:49:53
Speaker
It's not 50. It's not 75. It's not 60. It's 19. It's little. It's an itty bitty number. But here are some numbers from the domestic violence service regarding teen dating violence. I want you to know, and I want you to remember, because 19 might not sound so bad, but nearly 1.5 million high schoolers nationwide experience physical abuse from a dating partner in a single year.
00:50:16
Speaker
yeah One in three girls in the United States is a victim of physical, emotional, or verbal abuse from a dating partner, a figure that far exceeds rates of any other type of youth violence. One in 10 high school students has been purposefully hit, slapped, and or physically hurt by their boyfriend or girlfriend. Only 33% of teens who are in an abusive relationships ever told anyone about the abuse at the time it occurred.
00:50:46
Speaker
81% of parents believe teen dating violence is not an issue or admit that they did not know that it was an issue. So you've got, just to look at those statistics, you've got 19% of kids that are being physically injured and you got 80% of adults saying it's not a real thing. Together that equals 100 and I don't think that's a mistake.
00:51:12
Speaker
Lastly, teams who suffer abuse are subject to long-term consequences like alcoholism, eating disorders, promiscuity, and thoughts of suicide and violence. Also, according to FuturesWithoutViolence.org, which I've got all these websites, I'll post them in the show notes, one in 12 high school students experience physical and or sexual violence in a dating relationship. That is one in five girls and one in 10 boys experience physical and or sexual violence in their intimate relationships.
00:51:43
Speaker
More to the point, one in three homicides in girls aged 11 to 18 are committed by an intimate partner. So one in three girls that are killed, 11 to 18 are done by their boyfriend and girlfriend.
00:52:00
Speaker
So I have always been taught and believe if I'm going to tell you about a problem, I'm going to tell you some kind of solution. and We're just going to stand here and let it burn. So here are the way it hurts. Yeah, that the song lyrics, the song lyrics. Here are some tips to preventing teen dating violence.
00:52:19
Speaker
um There are five strategies for empowering teens um by the LaTrust dot.org. It's one, provide education and resources for healthy relationships. Young people need access to information and resources that can help them establish healthy relationships. This includes education,
00:52:38
Speaker
can about consent, boundaries, communication, as well as information about where to turn if they experience or witness abuse. By providing this information, we help young people build skills and confidence they need to recognize and avoid unhealthy relationships. To create a safe and supportive environment,
00:52:57
Speaker
um It's crucial for preventing teen dating violence. Educators, parents, and caregivers should focus on creating spaces where teens feel comfortable discussing their experiences and concerns, and where they can receive support and guidance when needed. By creating these safe spaces, we help young people feel empowered to speak up and seek help when they need it. It's back to what happened to Amy. She was 14, getting slapped down by her boyfriend and her whole freaking school's cheering on the abusive boyfriend of this kid.
00:53:22
Speaker
yeah And, you know, it's even like you said earlier, you were trying to talk to Caleb and he was embarrassed and he was uncomfortable. At least he knows you're going to talk to him. Yeah. Like it is an it is an uncomfortable conversation to have with your kids. Yeah. But if you don't have it, someone's having it. Yeah. And it needs to be it needs to be the information you want them to have. Yeah.
00:53:43
Speaker
Teach bystander intervention. Bystander intervention is the is a key strategy to preventing teen dating violence. By teaching young people how to recognize and respond to abusive behavior, we can create a culture of respect and accountability that empower everyone to take responsibility for their own actions and help others. Whether in person or online, bystander intervention can help prevent abusive behavior from escalating and support those who may be in danger. See something, say something.
00:54:12
Speaker
to someone if it's if it's your parents, their parents, the school guidance counselor, you see something, you say something. Address emotional abuse, why physical abuse is often the focus of discussions or around teen dating violence. Emotional abuse is also a serious problem. yeah Educators, parents, and caregivers should focus on helping young people understand the warning signs of emotional abuse. How to seek help if they are experiencing it. By addressing an emotional abuse, we can help young people build healthy relationships based on mutual respect and support. Finally, prioritize prevention and education.
00:54:48
Speaker
um This was especially prevalent around the COVID-19 pandemic because it was a unique challenge for young people with increased isolation stress. But even since then, it's more important ever than to to prioritize prevention and education efforts to help young people build the skills and confidence they need to navigate these changes, build healthy relationships that support their emotional and mental well-being than trying to teach them how to get out of one.
00:55:15
Speaker
because if you teach them how to see it, notice it, and prevent it, then then they're not they don't have to be in the middle of it. I'm going to, as always, post in the show notes. But if um you are experiencing emotional, physical, or mental abuse um by anyone, significant other you're dating and or family member, there's help available to you. The National Domestic Violence Hotline um has a phone number, which I'll put in. It's got a website. But they also have a text, and people like to text.
00:55:50
Speaker
um And all you have to do is text the word start to the number eight eight seven eight eight. You text start eight eight seven eight eight and there'll be someone there to talk to you, help you get resources and find a way to get out. So that is my horrific two stories. And I'm just going to interject one more thing. Parents, I know your kids are probably not eleven, twelve years old listening to the show. No. Educate yourself. Yes.
00:56:17
Speaker
because 80% of parents said that they, you know, they didn't believe it. ah You want to know what you want to know the 20% believe it. Amy carnival's mom. I was just going to say the ones that it's already happened Savannah Copeland's parents. They believe in this because they've lost their kid. Yeah. So you got it. You know, I talked the other day, actually, i I was talking to my aunt and uncle because my uncle had had a very long conversation with my third grader about the election and My aunt, the uncle i'm thinking the patriot pastor, yeah it is. um And my aunt was having like a conniption about the things he said to her. And before I could even interject, my uncle was like, Judy, you don't understand. Like she knows these topics. Like she was the one bringing up some of this stuff. And my cousin was standing there and she said, Faith does not treat her like a child, like on issues like this. Bella can talk to you and converse with you on it.
00:57:14
Speaker
And I told my aunt, I said, you know, back when we were little and your girls were little, it was all about sheltering them. You want to shelter them as long as possible. That's not an option anymore. Your kids are going to get educated. And it is up to me to provide the spin or the narrative that I want her decisions to be based on. Not her friends, not her school, not some wackadoo she sees on kids YouTube.
00:57:38
Speaker
I want to tell her what we believe, how, why we believe it. And you know what? There's a lot of times that she'll say, Hey, blah, blah. I noticed at school and you said this, can we discuss it? Absolutely. We can discuss it. Yeah. And we will. She's allowed to ask questions. She's allowed to argue a point. And at the end of the day, if our opinions differ, so be it. She is an individual with her own mind, able to make her own decisions.
00:58:03
Speaker
But she's also in third grade. Yep. So I will educate her to the best of my ability so that when she sees something she knows is wrong, she's going to come to me. She's going to come to her dad. She's going to go to her grandparents. She's going to go to her school guidance counselor. She's going to an adult that she trusts and she's saying this is what I saw. It's something as stupid as she's got a best friend that they've literally they've they've been together since um before school when they were in daycare.
00:58:31
Speaker
and they go to school together and all the boys were teasing her on the playground and calling her friend a boy and making fun of her and Bella went to the teachers and said this is what's happening and the teachers did nothing and Bella didn't like that because she didn't feel like it was the appropriate reaction so she then took to which I've I have talked to her you can't bully people into not bullying other people right But like one of the little boys, because she wouldn't talk to all this it's this kid that was being mean to her friends. She wouldn't talk to all his friends. And she said, you know you're your buddy's doing this and she's calling Dahlia a boy and it hurts Dahlia's feelings and it's not right. And he's bullying her and you need to talk to him and fix it.
00:59:12
Speaker
pretty much unanimously the other little friend said it's we can't we can't control what he does you know we're not so she took a different approach and she went to one of little boys whose mom's a teacher there and said i'd hate to have to tell your mom what your friends are like because then you can't be friends with them yeah Bella, that's you bullying because you want them to do just because you, you have good intentions. Does it make your actions correct? So we have that chat, but you know, I, you know, we talked about, I've got the little girl's mom, I've known her forever and said, you know, I can text her mom, see how she's doing. So I told her if this continues, we're going to go, we can go to her principal together and we can talk to her principal. Her principal is an amazing lady and would immediately like, she does, she's zero tolerance for bullying. Yeah.
00:59:54
Speaker
but it's <unk>s something as simple as, I mean, she's in third grade, she saw something she didn't like, so she said something, and when she didn't get the results she thought she could, yeah should, she continued to say something and continued to say something. At nausea to where my husband was like, hey, it's not your business, you don't need to be involved.
01:00:13
Speaker
But it's it's just having these hard conversations with your kids and and telling them like continually sometimes why we believe what we believe. And guess what? What I believe might not be what you believe on a daily basis are at the core of it. But I bet we can both agree on the fact that 13 year old girls shouldn't be being killed by their boyfriends while everyone stands around and does nothing knowing it's an abusive relationship. But we can all agree on that.
01:00:39
Speaker
I'm, yeah, 100%. 100%. There's not anybody that's gonna say, uh, she deserved it. Yeah. No one, you know what I mean? So whether it's, you know, it's not about politics. It's not about religion. It's not a race thing. It is about your kids should be able to be kids in a safe environment. But you have to create that by educating them on speaking out when they see things that shouldn't be done and also on speaking out when things are done to them. Yeah. I'm off my soapbox.
01:01:08
Speaker
But I did tell my coworker that I'll talk about Savannah. I mean, she was crying in my office talking about her. Her daughter is very, very deeply affected by what happened. And when I looked into it, I didn't have enough information to really talk about Savannah right now. Because kids at age should not have to experience something like that. No. To lose your friend in a car crash or to cancer or something. That's traumatic. Things that are out of the scope of control. Right. But for something to say, this boy I knew killed this girl that I knew.
01:01:47
Speaker
That's a totally different f-ed up scenario. Not only that, you think back to, I mean, when, when, when her daughter, I almost said her name,
Community Impact and Media Critique
01:01:55
Speaker
I'm not going to do that. When her daughter like logically thinks back to sitting in class with this boy, you have to, I mean, she's not an idiot. She knows I wasn't safe. So now she's got to be looking around every time she goes to school thinking, am I safe now? Yeah. Yeah. Who else?
01:02:15
Speaker
is got these intents. Yeah. So I don't know, but I, I, you know, the Savannah Savannah's case or van's case is too fresh. Um, it's not even been a month um at this point. It's November 12th when we're recording too. And there wasn't enough information to put together there and actually make a podcast just that it had happened.
01:02:39
Speaker
There wasn't. I was just listening. I'm not going to lie. I ripped off Amy Carnival's case from a podcast I heard. I heard it. I thought it was a horrific story. And I literally listened to it like 24 hours before I listened to my friend in my office telling me about Van. And I was like, when I couldn't find enough information on the case, because I mean, it hasn't been tried. it's There's just nothing there right now. We don't even have the kid's story. They just released his name within the past 24 hours.
01:03:08
Speaker
But I remembered Amy carnival's case and there's enough there. Once, you know, I'd already heard the story so that I did the research and read the court documents and stuff and listened to a couple other podcasts on it. There's been a lifetime movie on the Amy carnival's case. DJ Tanner was yeah star. Um, and to my knowledge though, too, like, I don't think.
01:03:31
Speaker
to my knowledge, again, right now, I don't know, because everything's still up in the air. I don't think that he, in Samantha's case, was abusive like that. They were, they weren't dating. They were friends. They were friends. Her family was friends with them. So, I mean, there is going to be no justification in my mind, but I want to know why. This family took you in and loved you and cared for you like they wanted, like you were one of their own. They tried to help you.
01:03:56
Speaker
and you murdered their only daughter and their child. Like, what in your mind just, what could she have done? Would she tell you she wouldn't date you? Like, I mean, in my mind, that's, what did she do? What did she do to the shy kid? We'll never know why, no but we also know that people get triggered over stupid things. Yeah. So I want to know what triggered him. What could she have possibly done to make you into her life with a fricking pocket knife and leave her dying alone in the woods?
01:04:26
Speaker
thirteen I'll post, I've got pictures of both of them. It was just, again, it's one of those things, sorry if my dog is done being in the little crate Lisa set up for him. um They were both 13, 14. They're both cheerleaders. There were enough parallels that I felt like I could tell you about Amy Carnaval and then also tell you about Van Copeland.
01:04:54
Speaker
because van story I'm sure will be told a hundred times when we have all the details every podcast will tell it just like we all do now on these stories Amy carnival search it in Spotify there's a hundred podcasts on her you know what I mean like we we talk about these cases because we're morbid individuals um But also because in my opinion, it's about like totally being morbid, but sometimes we really hit home with a lot of things. Well, my opinion is educational. Yeah. Like learn off some. My dad always said that. Learn off my dime. Learn off my dime. You need to. you're You need to be better than I was. You need to go further than I was. You need to jump off my shoulders, whatever.
01:05:35
Speaker
He said a lot of things, it all meant the same thing. Learn learn from someone else's mistakes. And that's what a lot of the times, the podcasts, some of the stories I do find interesting, they're horrific, but I do find interesting. I'm a morbid individual. um But some of the stories, we just gotta wake up. like Honestly, there's so much crap in the world right now. you know So many people are furious that come um yeah sorry couldn't even air well yeah Kamala didn't get elected and Trump did and other people are excited and there's all these stories going around Facebook and Twitter and Instagram about people who are lifelong friends that now they can't talk to each other because the other person voted for the other one and all these people breaking down and they're gonna leave the United States and like that one girl did the song on Tik Tok if
01:06:25
Speaker
This is your if you've lost faith in the United States, this is your villain origin story or whatever stupid song she made up. Not a clue what you're talking about. We're screaming about all these issues at the end of the day. Don't matter. yeah Guess what? Whoever's in the president's office, they've got some power. Yeah, they might have a few little differences, but at the end of the day, they're all puppets for the government.
01:06:47
Speaker
Well, I mean, I'm be honest, I am 100 percent like, yeah, do your politic thing, but at the same time stop losing focus about the things that are going on around you. And that that's why that is what annoys me the most about just even trying to watch the news because they're not reporting on relevant things. And you're going to hate me for what I'm about to say, but no it's your fault. I said that I'm going to say this.
01:07:10
Speaker
Amy, um not Amy, Savannah Copeland was brutally murdered and she's a 13 year old little girl 15 minutes from where I live. Yeah. Two weeks ago. Yeah. And I can tell you more details about Peanut the squirrel being murdered. Yeah, than it's true.
01:07:26
Speaker
It's true. I mean, I wouldn't have even thought about that, except we were talking were talking about it earlier. But honestly, I can tell you more stories about the raccoon and the squirrel that were seized by the government and killed than a 13 year old girl that was stabbed to death by a pocket knife by a friend and left to die alone. Yeah. Who's 15 minutes from me. Yeah. Our priorities are screwed. But we don't think that there's a problem. I'm sorry. I'm going to throw it out there, guys. School shootings the whole night.
Conclusion: Call to Action and Resources
01:07:53
Speaker
We don't think that there's a problem with children's mental health.
01:07:56
Speaker
No, and social media is the biggest cause of it. You can't convince me otherwise. I agree. Because it's like that story I told you. It's not even a true story, guys. And I probably said it before on the podcast, but I'll say it again. I was reading a book and it was just a trash novel. It wasn't a true story. And this person wanted to kill themselves. And a girl caught them and found out about it and asked, why? Why would you why would you do this?
01:08:21
Speaker
And the response is, because the bullying never stops. I get bullied at school, then I go home, and not only do I get to watch myself get bullied online, my mom and dad get to watch myself being bullied online.
01:08:35
Speaker
My younger sister and brother get to watch myself being bullied online. Everyone knows I'm bullied and it never goes away. yeah They bully me online. I watch videos of what they've done. I hear comments of what they've done. It's a constant stream. How many people have sat there and and told people to kill each other online and they've done it? Yeah.
01:08:56
Speaker
Sorry, the dogs are out, guys, so just deal with it. It never stops. And you're telling me that's helpful to kids' mental health? And I'm sorry, you can tell me a hundred times that something's based on fiction. Like, you remember how, like, when we used to watch, like, SVU marathons and it always like, oh, this doesn't depict any real story, blah, blah, blah. Yes, it does. And I'm all the way back into it. I've almost caught up to recent times. Bull.
01:09:17
Speaker
Because every like criminal minds episode I can pretty much yeah, can I Can pretty much see I can tell you what case hey from yeah, yeah, all right guys so The dogs have lost the plot. So we're gonna go cuz I'll be on a soapbox all night So I might cut that off, but I just I I told my friend that I would find a way to talk about Savannah and this is the best way I could think to do it and So if you need resources, they'll be in the show notes. Educate yourself, educate your kids. If you're if you don't have kids, I'm sure you've got a kid, you know, that's an niece or nephew. Talk to their parents. Because until we talk about children being violently beaten, verbally, beat verbally abused and murdered and by their boyfriend or more than we talk to about a frickin squirrel, nothing's going to change. So.
01:10:15
Speaker
That's my story. I'm done with my soapbox. I hope you guys had a delightful day. Me too. And I will talk to you later. Bye. Bye.