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15: What's Your Fantasy - Secretary with Whiskey
34 Plays4 months ago
TRIGGER WARNING: During this episode, we discuss self harm. It is mentioned a couple of times earlier, but the segment starts around 01:12:00.
We couldn't let the "What's Your Fantasy" chapter come to an end without delving into the more adult world of fantasy. Join us with special guest nerd Whiskey as we explore kink, BDSM, and the imperfection of media portrayals.
Here are some of the things that Whiskey mentioned to check out:
- Sleeping Beauty Series
- Watt's the Safe Word
- Couples Therapy (and Where Should We Begin)
- The creator Sunny Megatron
You can follow Whiskey on Instagram (@whiskey.fm) and blog and Bluesky (@whiskeyfoxxx.bsky.social.) You can also check out their blog here: whiskeyfoxxx.beehiiv.com/
Opinions shared by the hosts and/or guests of Real Hot Nerd Shit are their own and do not represent any workplace or organization with whom they may or may not be affiliated.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Theme
00:00:26
Ryan
Welcome to Real Hot Nerd Shit, a pop culture podcast where real hot nerds talk about real nerd shit on your host Ryan.
00:00:34
Shauna (she/her)
And I'm your co-host Shana.
00:00:36
Ryan
And on this episode of Real Hot Nerd Shit, we are talking about the 2002 movie Secretary in our theme of what's your fantasy.
Meet Special Guest Whiskey
00:00:47
Shauna (she/her)
And so ah ah we are going to have a special guest hot nerd for this episode, Whiskey. So welcome to the podcast.
00:00:55
whiskey (any/all)
Hello, thank you for having me.
00:00:56
Ryan
Hi.
00:00:58
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:00:58
Ryan
Welcome, pal. How are you?
00:01:01
whiskey (any/all)
You know, it's going to be a life.
00:01:04
Ryan
Sure. Sure.
00:01:06
Shauna (she/her)
As I always say, it's better than I'm here and it's better than the alternative.
00:01:06
Ryan
That's, that's really.
00:01:10
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:10
Shauna (she/her)
And that is, at the end of the day, always true.
00:01:13
Ryan
Yeah.
00:01:14
Shauna (she/her)
like
00:01:15
Ryan
Yeah.
00:01:15
whiskey (any/all)
Yes.
00:01:15
Ryan
Most days.
00:01:16
Shauna (she/her)
sorry yeah no all edit Some days it's a little closer than it should be, but it's always still better just the same.
00:01:17
Ryan
I appreciate
00:01:23
whiskey (any/all)
You know, but still we move, right?
00:01:25
Ryan
Exactly, exactly.
00:01:25
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah. yeah
00:01:26
whiskey (any/all)
So.
00:01:27
Ryan
You know, I know where my, where my weak spots in mental health are and it's right around there. So, you know, yeah, exactly.
Weather and Identity
00:01:35
Ryan
how are the, how's, how's the weather where you are?
00:01:37
Ryan
Cause it's fucking miserable in Cleveland.
00:01:40
whiskey (any/all)
they What do they say in New York? It's brick. It's brick as fuck.
00:01:43
Ryan
Oh yeah, that makes sense.
00:01:43
whiskey (any/all)
and It is like, I think eight degrees. I think it was, well, it's 12 now. We're a little higher, whoa.
00:01:50
Shauna (she/her)
Oh, heat wave.
00:01:51
Ryan
I, I got excited about that.
00:01:54
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:01:54
whiskey (any/all)
I need to go back to double digits, and then the double digits is negative 10, right?
00:01:59
Shauna (she/her)
yeah Yeah, the the monkey, to the.
00:01:59
whiskey (any/all)
yeah
00:02:03
Shauna (she/her)
car Yeah, I know.
00:02:04
whiskey (any/all)
the monkey The monkey's paw curls again and again.
00:02:07
Ryan
Yeah, exactly.
00:02:07
Shauna (she/her)
I guess like, hmm.
00:02:09
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, but you know, we're here, we're out here, we're black, we're beautiful, and we're like we'rere we're gonna make things happen no matter what.
00:02:14
Ryan
Yeah.
00:02:17
Ryan
Amen.
00:02:19
whiskey (any/all)
I know the time that we're recording this, it's, you know,
00:02:24
Ryan
Three days in.
00:02:25
whiskey (any/all)
And it, it, we're three days into, uh, T Rump part two, shitty Boogaloo.
00:02:26
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:02:31
whiskey (any/all)
So, you know, but you know, we, we've done this before. Our ancestors have done this before.
00:02:36
Ryan
Right.
00:02:36
whiskey (any/all)
As long as there's Black and trans people, we will make it.
00:02:39
Ryan
Amen. because we are the center of it all. Yeah, it's we'll talk about it during General Banter, but you know we're I'm really excited to have
00:02:49
Ryan
um
Activism and Nerdy Interests
00:02:50
Ryan
We go a little ways back to, i it feel I know you said you moved five years ago, but it feels like our paths started crossing.
00:03:01
Ryan
I was trying to remember, was it like 2015, 16 Cleveland activist network era?
00:03:06
whiskey (any/all)
25th, yep, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because again, going back and watching this, I've been reflecting on that.
00:03:11
Ryan
Mm hmm.
00:03:12
whiskey (any/all)
I'm like, wow, I have been doing like activism specifically for at least 10 years. And um that's definitely how we met was. I think it was Cleveland, yeah, Cleveland Activist Network.
00:03:23
whiskey (any/all)
And then, God, what, preterm? And then we started AMP.
00:03:27
Ryan
Yeah. Yup.
00:03:29
whiskey (any/all)
And then we were just doing black babes stuff. And yeah.
00:03:32
Ryan
Black babes poor went out for black babes. That was a really fun time on when Facebook meant something to me Cleveland black babes y'all were there Man, you just said so many words that like made me for like forget what year it is like never forget
00:03:46
Shauna (she/her)
See, I had not thought the phrase Cleveland Babes page in forever.
00:03:50
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:03:53
Shauna (she/her)
And it was like, Oh my God. I'm like, let's see. God.
00:03:58
whiskey (any/all)
Yes, no, I went back because I've been going back.
00:03:59
Shauna (she/her)
What a time. What an internet time.
00:04:01
whiskey (any/all)
I've been going back on Facebook. I'm like, wow, remember this time?
00:04:07
Ryan
That's the only reason I keep my Facebook page now is to go back and like eliminate traces of who I used to be because first of all, yikes. Second of all, wow.
00:04:18
Ryan
Third of all, I don't even want to be on Facebook anymore. I'm only keeping it to manage like the Instagram shit that I have to do.
00:04:25
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:04:25
Ryan
But I went through and got rid of all of my like permissions for ads and stuff. I saw some TikTok about it. so You know, maybe that tiny little act of resistance will help me fight back against the fucking oligarchy that be. So super excited that you came to join us in our little hot nerd island. We know that nerds are like, you know, multifaceted. We're here to talk about fantasy and BDSM and king spaces, but you're a nerd about whatever you're a nerd about. So if a nerd is someone who is weirdly knowledgeable and passionate about something that sometimes people find to be uncool, whiskey, what are you a nerd about?
00:05:08
whiskey (any/all)
So I had to actually write this down because I'm like, I think a lot of stuff that I'm nerdy about because a nerd in our current zeitgeist is a very popular thing, right?
00:05:18
Ryan
Yes.
00:05:19
whiskey (any/all)
I want to say the typical things about like anime and like movies and comics, but those are pretty run-of-the-mill, right?
00:05:22
Ryan
Yeah.
00:05:28
Ryan
For us, at least.
00:05:29
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, so I had to go back.
00:05:30
Ryan
Yeah.
00:05:30
whiskey (any/all)
I'm like, what are the things that you're like, actually, like, it's still kind of underground. Definitely music, because like, I, I like so many types of genres and I'm into so much types of like live music.
00:05:34
Ryan
Mhm. Mhm.
00:05:42
whiskey (any/all)
So that's definitely something I'm very passionate about. um crossword puzzles.
00:05:47
Ryan
Work, bitch.
00:05:47
whiskey (any/all)
I have like a crossword puzzle book.
00:05:49
Shauna (she/her)
I love that.
00:05:51
whiskey (any/all)
And it's made like all of them are made by queer or trans or women. it's like a very radical like feminist crossword book that I've been working on.
00:06:00
Ryan
Hell yeah.
00:06:00
Shauna (she/her)
That's amazing.
00:06:02
Ryan
You need to send that like over Gmail or something so I can buy it.
00:06:02
Shauna (she/her)
I love that. Yeah.
00:06:06
whiskey (any/all)
Oh, yes, I absolutely will. I also collect teddy bears. That's something I've done since I was a child. I have like 20 teddy bears specifically.
00:06:16
Ryan
How endearing.
00:06:17
whiskey (any/all)
I just love them. I just think they're cute. I just love them. And I'm getting into figurines. I am definitely the nigafu collects anime figurines. I have a Uhura. I have a gloomy bear. I have a couple of characters from Jujutsu Kaisen right now. So getting into that and archiving. I'm really into like preserving history.
00:06:18
Ryan
That's so sweet.
00:06:24
Ryan
Work.
00:06:28
Ryan
Yeah.
00:06:41
Ryan
Yeah.
00:06:42
whiskey (any/all)
One of my majors in college, when I was in college, was sociology. I wish it had been anthropology, actually, though, because I'm finding that preserving the memory of peoples, of places, of knowledge, because lot of when people die, a lot of those things are lost. So I'm finding that it's very important to maintain memories of people, of what they experience, the places that they went to, the food that they ate, the language that they had.
00:07:11
whiskey (any/all)
And to segue into like our topic, one of the things that got me really into that was the leather archives in Chicago. They have a very strong collection of leather history, especially during the AIDS epidemic, that it really changed me and making sure that we remember people that were victims of a genocide legitimately in this country, right?
00:07:33
Ryan
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:35
whiskey (any/all)
and to preserve because a lot of those people that passed on their families didn't want anything to do with them because of their queerness. So it's important to me to maintain their memory, speak their names, and hold on to that.
00:07:47
whiskey (any/all)
So I'm trying to do that now. I just got accepted to do an archivist role for a group in the UK called Other His Collective um um on Instagram if you find them.
00:07:56
Ryan
Zach!
00:07:57
whiskey (any/all)
So I'm going to be just talking about queer people in Pittsburgh, queer people like black people in Pittsburgh, just sharing all the things that I can find. Because and especially in this digital age, things are not tangible anymore.
00:08:08
Ryan
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:10
whiskey (any/all)
So we need to hold on to them.
00:08:12
Shauna (she/her)
Well, and I was thinking as you were talking about all of that, how there's like, when I think about what like Facebook and all of that really was, it was those kinds of memories.
00:08:13
Ryan
It's...
00:08:21
whiskey (any/all)
oh
00:08:22
Shauna (she/her)
It was the places we ate as we document our food. It was, you know, their friends and those moments and all of that that were, you know, kind of losing like it for me too. It's like the, you know, historical record of, you know, the back when we were.
00:08:37
Shauna (she/her)
Putting our uploading our pictures, our cameras.
00:08:39
Ryan
liken Yeah, using cords, perish the thought.
00:08:43
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:08:44
Ryan
Using a fucking cord to put a picture on my computer.
00:08:44
Shauna (she/her)
Right.
00:08:44
Shauna (she/her)
Like.
00:08:44
whiskey (any/all)
yes
00:08:48
Ryan
My separate devices.
00:08:48
whiskey (any/all)
yeah like Yeah, I mean, because, you know, I think all of us are around the same age, like mid 30s, right? So we're the last generation of people.
00:08:57
Shauna (she/her)
For 40.
00:08:58
whiskey (any/all)
oh yeah yeah all that
00:09:01
Ryan
she's She hit a milestone recently.
00:09:01
Shauna (she/her)
yeah
00:09:03
Ryan
Let her have it. It's important.
00:09:05
whiskey (any/all)
But you know we're we're the we're the last generation of people who knew a time before computers whose lives weren't fully weren't fully online, right like aren't digital natives.
00:09:10
Shauna (she/her)
Right.
00:09:11
Ryan
right
00:09:16
whiskey (any/all)
like where Once we die, we're going to be the last
Generational Nostalgia
00:09:19
whiskey (any/all)
people who didn't who know what a cassette was, who knew what a CD was, a DVD, like even a Blu-ray.
00:09:21
Ryan
Yes.
00:09:26
whiskey (any/all)
We have a computer that it didn't move. like I'm on a laptop right now who has desktops anymore.
00:09:31
Ryan
Right. Right. i had to watch I had to watch porn on a desktop in my basement and hope no one came.
00:09:39
whiskey (any/all)
Oh, so vintage.
00:09:39
Ryan
Other than me, hope no one came down.
00:09:44
whiskey (any/all)
I mean, listen, if you're an edger, that's between you and your history.
00:09:45
Ryan
Yeah, right, you know, I hope no one came for 15 years. I've been edging for 15 years. yeah, I, you know, I actually, we don't talk about like our lives outside of, you know, real hot nerd shit much on here, but you know, both Shauna and I work in sort of progressive queer-oriented spaces and I just feel so fucking lucky to have spent and to get to spend so much time with our elders.
00:10:15
Ryan
Like when I worked at our LGBT Center, you know, I i be there for our senior programming.
00:10:16
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:10:23
Ryan
And granted, it was like mostly cis white gay men. like There weren't even a lot of women. But one of the things that I, you know of course, learned during that was like that's because women were still were are still working at that age. And like you know these men in their 60s and 70s are retired, and their lesbian counterparts still have to work because pay inequity. but
00:10:45
Shauna (she/her)
Hm.
00:10:45
Ryan
just getting to hear those like first-hand accounts honestly of like someone that I know is talking to me and telling me that like there were days that they would just wake up and check the obituaries to see which of their friends were dead and like not to be too morose or I don't know if that's the right word but like
00:11:00
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:11:06
Ryan
there is a part of me that is getting very scared for the continuous safety and well-being of my my friends.
00:11:17
Ryan
And like, you know, I don't, I i fucking, you know, cancel the the energy of even having to to think about that. But like, you know, shit is getting real and I just, I am,
00:11:30
whiskey (any/all)
Mm.
00:11:32
Ryan
My anxious mind, you you mentioned this earlier, but like, we've done this before. Our ancestors have done this. we have survived. But even in saying that, like realizing we didn't all survive, and like it was not for lack of our trying, but it was because of, you know, they wanted us to not exist. And so there's, i I believe this monster when he says like deportation starting day one, like my friends in Chicago saw it happening, like it is
00:12:05
Ryan
We should believe him when he says he doesn't want us to exist. That doesn't mean we should live in fear. Like I will go down fighting in this motherfucker with my refusal to adapt to, you know, pick one gender and also like.
00:12:21
Ryan
Yeah, i I absolutely believe you're coming for me and my my family. And so I don't even think I meant to like fully connect it to that first point of segwaying into current events. But yeah, the inauguration was Monday. um how are you How are you both feeling three days in?
00:12:41
Shauna (she/her)
I hate it here.
00:12:42
Ryan
Yeah.
00:12:43
Shauna (she/her)
why it's it's It is very difficult you know as as a trans woman. as this like you know i spent so I spent the weekend in Las Vegas
LGBT Sports and Wholesome Joys
00:12:57
Shauna (she/her)
playing in the Sin City Classic, which is the largest LGBT sports tournament.
00:12:59
Ryan
which we haven't even caught up about. I can't wait to hear about it.
00:13:02
Shauna (she/her)
yeah and it's like It is huge like there's 500 people alone for just dodgeball, which is my sport of choice.
00:13:05
whiskey (any/all)
Oh my god.
00:13:09
Shauna (she/her)
And so like it's this massive, you know, you know, a dozen sports all in Vegas and the sporty queers just everywhere. It's wonderful. It's beautiful. And it was so great to be surrounded by community this weekend and you know I'm very fortunate because dodgeball is a very inclusive sport.
00:13:27
Shauna (she/her)
it is a you know and I think it's because co-ed dodgeball and like open dodgeball where anyone just plays, and that's the team, is so much more the norm, unlike a lot of other sports, which are very gendered from the start.
00:13:39
whiskey (any/all)
Mm hmm.
00:13:43
Shauna (she/her)
You're just like, oh, i I'm used to playing against someone stronger. So i don't think there I think that's part of why there hasn't been nearly the pushback. because i just can't imagine any of the badass women that i play with would be like oh my god this person throws too hard i don't i can't deal with that they'd be like no i'm fuck you i'm gonna catch it that is like the attitude because again there's some fucking real badasses and i'm so happy i get to you know share the court on and against them like and so like it was just really great doing that and then flying back monday and right you know thankfully
00:13:57
Ryan
right Right Right exactly try again bitch
00:14:17
Ryan
Yeah.
00:14:20
Shauna (she/her)
missing a lot of it live, but then catching up and seeing the executive orders and, you know, the ways in which I think about like, you know, if, as they increase, you know, the police, you know, militarization and make different things against the laws in different places, and then they have laws that forcibly detransition you in prison.
00:14:41
Shauna (she/her)
because that is the way that they dehumanize prisoners is by taking away their medication. And so just like thinking about me and my life. And you know, again, I am a woman who is, I have a lot of privileges in this life, you know, even like as like, but yeah, but so even like, just like using that even that I as a, like have all of this, let alone
00:15:05
Ryan
Yeah.
00:15:07
Shauna (she/her)
so many other people who have so much more and just as much and everything to lose when like, you know, the medication that I've been on for over a decade now, and it's like, would be like, no, you don't need this.
00:15:12
Ryan
Yeah.
00:15:19
Shauna (she/her)
This is not like, there's no, like that alone should find you that they can take away that they can take away any number of medications and force you to have a worse life.
00:15:28
Ryan
Yeah.
00:15:28
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:15:30
Shauna (she/her)
And, you know, gosh, it's awful.
00:15:31
Ryan
I think an apt metaphor, like and something that you said that stuck with me, like you have a lot to lose.
00:15:33
Shauna (she/her)
but
00:15:38
Ryan
And like that is where like some of the privilege I think is. But at the end of the day, like the thing that you are afraid of losing is like your humanity and your sense of safety, which is just like a shared experience across those of us that hold the most marginalized identities.
00:15:54
Ryan
so like I mean, I feel kind of the same way. Like, if they come for me, I know I'm well resourced enough to be able to fucking fight.
00:15:58
Shauna (she/her)
Absolutely.
00:16:02
Ryan
But if at the end of the day, if they come for me, they come for me. And it doesn't matter how smart I am or how well connected I am. Like, they, you know, the vays, the vays that aren't us, the bad days, the universal bad day, the singular or bad day, which is inherently male.
00:16:18
Shauna (she/her)
call.
00:16:22
Ryan
Like, to be clear, the bad day is a man.
00:16:24
whiskey (any/all)
is yeah and
00:16:26
whiskey (any/all)
yeah To be perfectly honest, I was doing okay until today. Today was kind of hard emotionally. I think I just crashed just the past month itself has been kind of wild for me personally. and But on Monday, it was MLK day, we did not acknowledge.
00:16:26
Ryan
Whiskey, how are you hanging in there?
00:16:48
Ryan
Correct.
00:16:48
whiskey (any/all)
what was happening, but also same as you all, like reading the news the past couple of days.
00:16:49
Ryan
right
00:16:55
whiskey (any/all)
It's just been a lot. I've been trying to be mindful, taking breaks, trying to self soothe, right? Just finding things that I can do in the now that I'm looking forward to and staying in community.
00:17:08
whiskey (any/all)
I feel like when we did this in 2016, That was definitely the thing that helped me was to stay in community with people. So i've I try to keep myself social and find tangible ways to help, whether it's sharing clothing drives or being involved. I do a lot of organizing in Pittsburgh, like queer, kink scenes, black and brown people.
00:17:30
whiskey (any/all)
So just try to find pockets of joy and you know, stop scrolling. Like if you don't have to scroll, don't scroll, like do something else.
00:17:36
Ryan
Yeah, agreed.
00:17:38
whiskey (any/all)
Talk to your friends, kiss your pets, you know, check your phone on the river. I don't know, like live your life.
00:17:43
Ryan
Yeah, take your pick.
00:17:48
Ryan
I posted something on my story along the same lines and I specifically said, like, have you considered hugging your dog? Because that's so much better than scrolling on my stupid little box until I wanna, you know, thirteenth reason myself.
00:18:02
Ryan
Like, it's, it's a very, sorry, I don't think that's a funny joke.
00:18:08
whiskey (any/all)
No, I'm laughing because I say the same thing.
00:18:11
Ryan
Well, I heard it from a very problematic Gen Z'er that they said, like, this is my 13th reason. And I was like, that is the funniest, most fucked up thing I've ever heard.
00:18:24
Ryan
Like, y'all are out here wilding.
00:18:25
whiskey (any/all)
yeah
00:18:27
Ryan
So,
00:18:27
whiskey (any/all)
who
00:18:29
Ryan
Yeah, I think to to your point, Whiskey, like about community, like I feel so grateful. Shawn and I did this whole love on each other thing at the in our 2024 in review because you know we were stoned and just like feeling you know in love with each other.
00:18:38
Shauna (she/her)
That's true.
00:18:43
Ryan
But I... I have a lot of friends who are, you know, perhaps more socially conscious now than they were in 2016. And so they're really kind of like opening up. But, you you know, they're like my straight friends that, you know, they're married and don't have a lot of connections outside their, you know, their marriage because like not even saying relationships because like they don't have them and it's like, you don't have, no wonder you're freaking out all the time.
00:19:12
Ryan
You don't have community. You don't have people that remind you that like you're loved and you're safe and you deserve both of those things inherently.
00:19:14
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:19:21
Ryan
Like if I didn't have my, you know, little group of weirdos that I have too many different group chats with, like if I didn't have them, I don't know how I would survive, but like You know, my phone was upside down on the couch all day on Monday. Like, I read, I finished stuff, I like wrote, i I did not. And it was great. I really kind of forgot it was inauguration day because my first thought was like, ooh, it's MLK day. And then, you know, it took a little while for me to get there. But then I got there and it kind of bummed me out for a second. but
00:19:59
Ryan
So speaking of things that are making us happy, are we watching? What's bringing us joy right now? Whiskey, what's what's bringing you the most joy that you're consuming right now?
00:20:11
whiskey (any/all)
Things that I'm like consuming as far as media, like I said, I watch a lot of YouTube.
00:20:15
Ryan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:16
whiskey (any/all)
one of the things that is, it's like very wholesome UK programming that like their Nands watch, you know, it's all antiques road trip.
00:20:23
Ryan
Yeah.
00:20:26
whiskey (any/all)
So it's these two anteakers. They have 200 pounds. They go across a certain part of the UK and they buy antiques and then they auction them off. Whoever makes the most wins, but all of the winnings go to like children's charity.
00:20:40
Ryan
Thank you.
00:20:40
whiskey (any/all)
So it's just them going in these shops and just picking stuff out. And some of it's horrendous, like, but, but it's cute. It's just cute, innocuous, British, nice programming.
00:20:51
Ryan
Love it.
00:20:52
whiskey (any/all)
And I also game.
00:20:53
whiskey (any/all)
So I've been playing Animal Crossing again.
00:20:56
Ryan
Hell yeah. Speaking of things that make you feel good.
00:20:58
whiskey (any/all)
So animals.
00:20:59
Ryan
and
00:20:59
whiskey (any/all)
Yes, very cozy games. ah My girlfriend's are playing Stardew again, and I'm probably about to start playing Stardew again.
00:21:03
Shauna (she/her)
Hmm.
00:21:05
whiskey (any/all)
And Mario Kart. I've always played Mario Kart lately.
00:21:09
Ryan
Love it.
00:21:10
whiskey (any/all)
So just just trying to keep my mind occupied and just enjoy myself, just having fun.
00:21:16
Ryan
Have you played the new Princess Peach game?
00:21:19
whiskey (any/all)
I have not, but I heard it's really cute.
00:21:22
Shauna (she/her)
It is very cute.
00:21:22
Ryan
Yeah, I've heard the same thing. I haven't played it yet, but coincidentally, we had a ah Nerds and Gamers meeting today. I run like an ERG for work, and obviously the first one I created was the Nerds and Gamers. And one of my co-workers was talking about loving cozy games, and they're like, well, and the Peach game, but that's not really like a cozy game, but it does make me feel really good. I was like, okay, cool, noted, because Animal Crossing's not really my tea. Stardew Valley I could probably get into. But a game where you just get to play as Princess Peach? Sold. Absolutely sold.
00:21:56
Shauna (she/her)
Well, and I love the premise of it that she's going in this world of plays. And so she's like a different character on the stage and it's the art style very much plays up, plays up the like set piece-ness of it with shadows, cardboard. like And I just think it's a very cool artistic game also.
00:22:15
Ryan
Noted.
00:22:15
Shauna (she/her)
like
00:22:16
whiskey (any/all)
So cute. I have to download it. Yeah, I would save.
00:22:20
Ryan
Oh, what about you, Shauna? What are you watching?
00:22:23
Shauna (she/her)
So I've been rewatching GLOW about the the gorgeous ladies of wrestling because me and my partners just binge the Mr.
00:22:27
Ryan
Yes. Yes.
00:22:31
Shauna (she/her)
McMahon documentary, which is fascinating.
00:22:35
whiskey (any/all)
Ooh. Ooh.
00:22:36
Shauna (she/her)
It's so wild and i it's it is well worth checking out, especially considering that Linda McMahon is the secretary of education, you know, bringing it back full circle.
00:22:46
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:22:47
Shauna (she/her)
And like, you can see that like, yeah.
00:22:48
Ryan
Like, what a fucking world.
00:22:50
whiskey (any/all)
yeah
00:22:51
Shauna (she/her)
when someone said that, uh, what, uh, millennia looks like the undertaker, I was like, there's more of that McMahon influence.
00:22:57
Ryan
Yeah, she's really in there.
00:22:59
whiskey (any/all)
Play the bell.
00:23:01
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:23:01
Ryan
She's really in there. Yeah.
00:23:03
Shauna (she/her)
Well, you know, it's great because clean is a literal Republican in Tennessee.
00:23:04
Ryan
Oh my god, wait, were you a wrestling person too, Whiskey?
00:23:08
Shauna (she/her)
Like he's like, uh,
00:23:08
Ryan
yeah
00:23:08
whiskey (any/all)
No, literally.
00:23:10
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah. Like it's the weirdest thing, but the ways in which pro wrestling and like intercepts with the political, it's a very good watch in this moment.
00:23:12
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:23:20
Shauna (she/her)
And it's just a very fascinating documentary that had my two partners who have never watched wrestling, like wrapped. Like I got my goes to bed at the ass crack, a 10 30 girlfriend to stay up to one o'clock with me because we were so engrossed in it.
00:23:31
Ryan
Oh my god.
00:23:35
Shauna (she/her)
It was great.
00:23:35
Ryan
That's saying a lot.
00:23:35
whiskey (any/all)
My God.
00:23:36
Shauna (she/her)
I was, I felt so, I'm not, I, it was truly one of like my, like, I love that you're enjoying this thing that I love that you're staying up late for this.
00:23:44
Shauna (she/her)
Like it would make me feel so good. Yeah.
00:23:44
Ryan
I love that.
00:23:47
whiskey (any/all)
Good, yes. Yeah, I am a wrestling person. I just got back into into wwe WWE like after Vince left.
00:23:51
Shauna (she/her)
Oh.
00:23:54
Shauna (she/her)
Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Have you watched the documentary?
00:23:58
whiskey (any/all)
I haven't watched the documentary yet, but as someone who grew up in the attitude era, watching wrestling now is so different.
00:24:04
Ryan
Mmhmm.
00:24:04
Shauna (she/her)
Yes.
00:24:07
whiskey (any/all)
It's so different. And it's so starkly because of Vince's influence.
00:24:08
Shauna (she/her)
Oh, Oh yeah. And I love the way that they really show how it changed and how it had to change as it goes through from like the attitude era is like, cause that was my, ah that was the wrestling I grew up on too, because like my, like my cousin who I've talked about was like, as like a big influence in my life, he was really into like the Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, like early nineties era wrestling.
00:24:19
whiskey (any/all)
who
00:24:33
whiskey (any/all)
me
00:24:35
Shauna (she/her)
that then became like he was a big NWO fan. And then I became a big NWO fan and DX and all of that, like, oh.
00:24:44
Ryan
So what is the attitude era and why is it called that?
00:24:48
whiskey (any/all)
Okay, there's a great YouTube video about this.
00:24:49
Shauna (she/her)
up
00:24:51
whiskey (any/all)
the short version is the Attitude Era was like the the superstars of the late 90s, right? Stone Cold, The Rock, like Edge, Hardy Boys, stuff like that.
00:24:59
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:25:00
Ryan
Power era.
00:25:02
Shauna (she/her)
yeah
00:25:03
whiskey (any/all)
So it was when they were doing this, yeah, yeah, The Suck It, that's Attitude Era.
00:25:05
Shauna (she/her)
the degeneration X.
00:25:05
Ryan
Oh, DX suck it?
00:25:06
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah. on Yeah.
00:25:08
Ryan
yeah
00:25:09
Shauna (she/her)
Shawn Michaels and Triple H. Yeah.
00:25:11
Ryan
Yep, definitely thought I had such a big crush on Triple H.
00:25:12
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:25:14
Ryan
so Okay, so that's the era. Why is it called that?
00:25:17
whiskey (any/all)
Because it was a fuck you era. It was just like middle fingers.
00:25:19
Ryan
Oh, yeah.
00:25:20
Shauna (she/her)
It became where So investing traditionally, there are heels, which are the bad guys and faces, which are the good guys. And the attitude era defined a kind of flip of it where the bad guys who would traditionally be booed in any other generation are actually the fan favorites and the one that everybody loves.
00:25:38
whiskey (any/all)
who
00:25:40
Shauna (she/her)
And so you had the stone cold Steve Austin, you know, this beer drinking son of a bitch going through, you know, flipping off his boss, flipping off everyone.
00:25:43
Ryan
Yeah.
Pro Wrestling and Gender Performance
00:25:49
Shauna (she/her)
you know You can't tell him what to do, and he's now this anti-authority, anti-billionaire character, you know the man of the people. and I think it really portrayed, because there was the other rival organization, WCW, Ted Turner's.
00:26:04
Ryan
right
00:26:05
Shauna (she/her)
They had started going for more of an adult-oriented show. And so they were getting their asses kicked. They were just like losing week in and week out because they were stealing that Ted Turner's money was stealing stars.
00:26:15
Ryan
Yeah.
00:26:19
Shauna (she/her)
So that's where you saw Hulk Hogan, and Randy Savage, formerly Diesel and Razor Ramon became their actual names, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall.
00:26:19
whiskey (any/all)
go.
00:26:26
Ryan
Oh, yeah.
00:26:28
Shauna (she/her)
RIP. like i I kind of do it again, my favorites, like I, yeah the ways in which I realized that pro wrestling was like, Oh, all of my favorite wrestlers I'm attracted to that makes sense.
00:26:39
Ryan
100%.
00:26:39
whiskey (any/all)
yeah
00:26:39
Shauna (she/her)
Like I was like, Oh, this is like, Oh yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. Like Shawn Michaels sexy boy. And like, yeah, I could still sing it, but I'm not going to, but yeah. So it became this very adults show that then ww WWF needed to change and.
00:26:54
Ryan
Got it.
00:26:55
Shauna (she/her)
they then when were like okay we need to be for more adults and so that's where they leaned into the sex cells and they leaned into the more violence and this really like raw as war yeah sable exactly like yeah definitely worth checking out so that's where the attitude era really kind of got its like claim to fame of like does this like i want to wrestle with attitude who can really like you know
00:27:19
Ryan
That was definitely my my era, too. Anthony is like our our our ghost friend in the wings now, who like he I just reference him all the time. he texted me about listening to the last one, so hi again, Anthony.
00:27:34
Ryan
by you know he he was my friend that like got me into all of that stuff and so like same thing w wwf w wwe whatever like i went to one like showcase whatever they would be called when it was the gun derina and his dad's company had like loge seats or whatever and so i just remember like holding the styrofoam head over my head it was like the one piece of memorabilia i think i bought a dx a degeneration x t-shirt but like just head like i was like nine years old chanting what does everybody want like what wild wild yep
00:27:58
Shauna (she/her)
Oh.
00:28:10
Shauna (she/her)
Oh my God, Alice, no. Oh. Yep.
00:28:15
whiskey (any/all)
yeah
00:28:19
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:28:21
Shauna (she/her)
God. Like I'm thinking like, I'm like, I would like the eighth, like seventh, eighth grade, like we would go over to like my friend Jimmy's house and like, we would like wrestle in his like mom's basement, like on like mattresses and like, and then yeah, then as he would, he listened to ICP and yeah, that was the like, yeah, he loves South Park ICP.
00:28:32
Ryan
yep Yup. Yup. Josh's house.
00:28:39
whiskey (any/all)
Yay! Yep.
00:28:44
Shauna (she/her)
And then we would watch wrestling or that was like hanging out at Jimmy's house.
00:28:49
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:28:49
Ryan
So. I realized that the intersection of like me and Shana's interests as children and and also including now whiskey in this because man I cannot I cannot get over how many fucking weirdo queertos were like watching WWF like wrestling their friends like what okay
00:28:56
Shauna (she/her)
It's really funny.
00:29:10
Shauna (she/her)
It was so gay.
00:29:10
whiskey (any/all)
Okay.
00:29:11
Shauna (she/her)
It was gay.
00:29:12
whiskey (any/all)
No, it was, it's so gay.
00:29:12
Shauna (she/her)
like it was
00:29:14
whiskey (any/all)
and Because the thing, the thing that I've realized now as an adult going back, watching wrestling is that it's the perfect distillation of theater, athletics, and drag. Because you have people that are at the top of their game, they're selling kayfabe.
00:29:29
whiskey (any/all)
So they're, they're always going to give you some kind of storyline. It's going to be insane. The, their, They're putting their bodies on the line every night to like give you a show.
00:29:40
whiskey (any/all)
So you have the live theater aspect. And then they're always dressed up. They're always wearing the most absurd like craziest outfits that you can imagine.
00:29:48
Ryan
Yeah.
00:29:48
whiskey (any/all)
Or they they have this sort of persona that they put on. Like Shauna said, wrestlers don't use their real names. So they have a persona, which is different from who they are outside of the ring.
00:29:55
Ryan
Right.
00:29:59
Ryan
Like drag.
00:30:00
whiskey (any/all)
So just like drag. So it's it it it just hits so many intersections.
00:30:02
Ryan
Yeah.
00:30:03
Shauna (she/her)
Or if it wasn't for us, the ones that are amplified versions of themselves in very much the same way of like where it's them times 10.
00:30:07
Ryan
Yes.
00:30:12
Shauna (she/her)
And that's the characters that really can like really that really tend to speak to audiences a lot, where it's like, oh, I'm just going to be me, but more.
00:30:18
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:30:20
Ryan
it's the it's like drag obviously drag is a million things we would never be so bold as to try to say what drag is or is not indefinitely but like if there's one thing drag is it is just an amplified performance of gender like we all perform our gender every single day
00:30:20
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:30:38
Ryan
drag queens kings and and thems are Drag performers are just doing that times 10 with glitter on stage collecting your money And that's literally you could exchange pro wrestler for a drag performer in that and it's still the same thing Yes, it's just performing gender yep
00:30:53
Shauna (she/her)
I was gonna say, what is pro wrestling if not performing gender? Absolutely.
00:30:58
whiskey (any/all)
Exactly. Yes. Yep. And so I want in my mind, in my mind, I want the drag race community and the wwe WWE community to just link up.
00:31:02
Shauna (she/her)
This exaggerated masculinity.
00:31:10
whiskey (any/all)
And I want like all of the straight dudes that are super into WWE wwwe and they follow their favorite wrestler.
00:31:10
Ryan
Oh my God.
00:31:16
whiskey (any/all)
Like there's one guy who's usually at the front row at the pay per views. Uh, he's always having like a Trinidad flag. So you call him Trinity. I'm like, I want that guy.
00:31:28
whiskey (any/all)
and like Mo Hart to like have a crossover podcast or something, you know what I mean?
00:31:31
Ryan
Yes.
00:31:33
whiskey (any/all)
Like talk about wrestling and performance and just, I just feel like that would be really funny.
00:31:38
Ryan
I think they, so, drag race does, they always do a makeover challenge and it's always, you you know, someone that's like not in the drag world or whatever. And like, you know, usually they have like fans or like, I think one time it was like the dancers from the work, the world tour, but like it would actually be really funny to have back to back maxi challenges or even like have the mini challenge be these wrestlers come in and teach the girls how to do moves and they have to like fucking do wrestling moves on each other.
00:31:54
whiskey (any/all)
Mm-hmm.
00:32:08
Ryan
or and then have the girls make over the, like, RuPaul, excuse me, Ms. Paul, I have an idea for you.
00:32:15
whiskey (any/all)
Hello.
00:32:17
Ryan
We're gonna make millions, let's go.
00:32:19
whiskey (any/all)
That's free marketing. And to finalize this.
00:32:20
Shauna (she/her)
All she heard was I should fact more.
00:32:23
Ryan
a She said money? Turn on the fracker.
00:32:29
whiskey (any/all)
No, another thing, I've been saying this for like a year now since I've been rewatching it, especially because that the the stable of women has grown so much in pro wrestling.
00:32:39
Ryan
Yeah.
00:32:41
whiskey (any/all)
So I need to know what foundation are you wearing? What are you using for your eyebrows? Lipstick. I need y'all tagging them in Instagram because guess what? As a makeup girlie, I'm going to buy the product.
00:32:52
Ryan
Yup.
00:32:53
whiskey (any/all)
I need to know what black lipstick Rhea Ripley uses because that shit's not budging.
00:32:59
Shauna (she/her)
It's a great point.
00:32:59
Ryan
I'm obsessed.
00:33:00
whiskey (any/all)
Like, so I need that crossover.
00:33:02
Ryan
I'm obsessed.
00:33:02
Shauna (she/her)
they are
00:33:03
whiskey (any/all)
I 100% need that crossover.
00:33:05
Ryan
So, and so Shauna, we were got there by talking about glow. there any other, you know, feel good stuff that's getting you through the world ending?
00:33:13
Shauna (she/her)
I mean.
00:33:16
Shauna (she/her)
Marvel Rivals, it's been really it's had me and oh, it's been so good.
00:33:18
Ryan
Yeah.
00:33:22
Ryan
A choke hold.
00:33:23
whiskey (any/all)
So what is Marvel Rivals as someone who doesn't have a next-gen console?
00:33:23
Shauna (she/her)
Like it just it.
00:33:26
whiskey (any/all)
like Is it just marvel Mortal Kombat with Marvel characters? like What is it?
00:33:30
Shauna (she/her)
Uh, are you familiar with the game Overwatch?
00:33:33
whiskey (any/all)
Yes.
00:33:35
Shauna (she/her)
It's a hero shooter where there's like a roster of, you know, 30 characters with different abilities in, you know, in three different classes, tank damage and healer.
00:33:47
Ryan
Heels, yeah. yeah
00:33:48
Shauna (she/her)
And so. It works in a very, and it's six on six. And so it's a lot of teamwork and a lot of strategy in addition to like, you know, like skill, like, you know, using the controller.
00:33:55
Ryan
Toot him up.
00:33:59
Shauna (she/her)
But like, I think why I love that genre of video game is that of course there's like the better you are at video games, the better you'll do at it.
00:34:00
whiskey (any/all)
yeah
00:34:05
Shauna (she/her)
But you can counteract that by, you know, just being smart and playing, like, you know, sticking together, like little things like sticking together, grouping up when you're getting overrun, like all of
00:34:07
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:34:16
Ryan
we're loving Marvel Rivals. I actually took a little break over the weekend.
00:34:21
Ryan
just it I was like getting kind of burnt out. like I wasn't having a lot of fun, and I wasn't spending enough time on it.
00:34:25
Shauna (she/her)
hmm
00:34:28
Ryan
like I would play a couple games, and then you know not do great, and then blah, blah, blah. And i just I needed a little bit of a break. And in that time, I like you know, picked up.
00:34:41
Ryan
I got caught up on comics that I was behind on and like, you know, it's a couple hours a night but you kind of forget how much time you get back when you take a couple hours a night.
00:34:44
Shauna (she/her)
you
00:34:52
Ryan
So my feel-good stuff I'm reading, well I just finished Amy Jo Johnson, the actress that played the original Pink Power Ranger, wrote a ah comic called The Return that like
00:35:01
whiskey (any/all)
yeah.
00:35:01
Shauna (she/her)
Okay.
00:35:05
whiskey (any/all)
Oh my god.
00:35:07
Ryan
takes place 30 years later. It's a different universe than the show, but I backed it on Kickstarter like last spring and all the stuff finally came. And I actually forgot all the shit that I ordered, but I got this. This is the hardcover of the return. And then this was the one shot called Pink. That was just like a five issue run that centered on Kimberly Hart, who was like,
00:35:34
Ryan
the original femme icon like storm is my fave period end of story but the second i saw that bitch high kick in a denim skirt i was like you can do what now okay i'm sold i'm absolutely sold uh so yeah that that's my reading and i'm rewatching buffy As I have talked about on the show a million times, I've watched every episode ah ah like more than five times at least, except for the shitty ones.
00:36:06
Ryan
But I haven't sat down and watched season one, episode one to season seven, episode 22 in years. I can't tell you the last time I watched it straight through. And when I tell you I'm like re-falling in love with this show, it is...
00:36:21
Ryan
So good. It's so fun.
00:36:23
whiskey (any/all)
Okay.
00:36:24
Ryan
It makes me so happy. And I'm just, like I really like kind of fell in love with it all over again. And I am on season six, episode seven, which the super nerds will know is musical episode, Once More with Feeling.
00:36:39
Ryan
And I'm like saving it until I have the appropriate time to sit down and watch it, like with full attention because
00:36:49
Shauna (she/her)
Like with feeling.
00:36:50
Ryan
With figgling, you stupid bitch.
00:36:52
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:36:52
Ryan
I hate you, Jana. I hate you so much.
00:36:54
Shauna (she/her)
but
00:37:00
Ryan
Okay, so speaking of stupid bitches, let's get into this program. So we are here to talk about the movie secretary. And so when Sean and I were like creating our, you know, sort of episode themes, we knew we wanted to do some stuff around fantasy, like role-playing games, Dungeons and Dragons and Lord of the Rings, but then Whiskey you actually when you like sent me your information and you said this was something that you were like nerdy about I was like, oh my god, that's a different type of fantasy Oh my god, it works so well. And so this is our the end of our our episode run on fantasy so, you know Tell us what makes you a nerd with like
00:37:49
Ryan
BDSM, the kink community, like, what's your origin story? How did you come to it?
Kink and BDSM Exploration
00:37:55
whiskey (any/all)
Wow. Okay. Well, I have to go back. To be fair, it did start very early for me at like a probably inappropriate age because I had no memories.
00:38:03
Ryan
Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, we all have those memories, babe.
00:38:07
whiskey (any/all)
Okay. This is a space again. I forgot.
00:38:08
Ryan
Yeah, same space.
00:38:10
whiskey (any/all)
So a little fun fact about me, my mom was amazing. She always provided for us, made sure we had the freshest clothes, new kicks, all kinds of shit, right? So when I was a child, I had a TV in my room and that TV had a cable box.
00:38:25
Ryan
Yup.
00:38:25
whiskey (any/all)
And so I was able to do the old school 90s thing of having I Love Lucy on one channel and then flipping to last and then watching like real sex on HBO at the same time.
00:38:38
whiskey (any/all)
or like sex talk with Sue Johansson and stuff like that.
00:38:40
Ryan
Yes, queers folk was mine.
00:38:41
whiskey (any/all)
So I...
00:38:41
Shauna (she/her)
MTV is undressed.
00:38:42
whiskey (any/all)
Ooh.
00:38:43
Ryan
Yup.
00:38:44
whiskey (any/all)
Oh.
00:38:45
Ryan
Formative, formative, formative.
00:38:45
Shauna (she/her)
Absolutely. Big same.
00:38:48
whiskey (any/all)
Yes.
00:38:48
Shauna (she/her)
You know, but then I was also watching I Love Lucy too, but.
00:38:49
whiskey (any/all)
Yes. I think it's on Paramount.
00:38:52
Ryan
and Same, same, same.
00:38:55
whiskey (any/all)
I think address is on Paramount, actually. I should probably go back and watch that, but...
00:38:57
Shauna (she/her)
Ooh, I'm curious because it was very progressive for it's like time, if I recall.
00:39:01
whiskey (any/all)
No, for the time, it was very progressive. They they were talking about condom usage, same sex attraction, like blow jobs.
00:39:04
Shauna (she/her)
like
00:39:06
Ryan
Mm-hmm.
00:39:09
whiskey (any/all)
Like, it was, yeah, masturbation.
00:39:10
Ryan
Masturbation.
00:39:10
Shauna (she/her)
Furry's.
00:39:12
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, that it was such a great program, actually.
00:39:13
Ryan
Shout out.
00:39:16
whiskey (any/all)
that's, that's kind of my early exposure. And like, real sex, especially on HBO was a big one, because I remember there was one episode about kinks, but like the specific one was balloon popping.
00:39:24
Ryan
Mm-hmm.
00:39:28
whiskey (any/all)
And I'm like, I have still wanted to do that, but I'm like i like, that's just so, it's such an innocuous thing, but some people are just really into it, right?
00:39:34
Ryan
Yeah.
00:39:36
Ryan
Mmhmm.
00:39:37
whiskey (any/all)
And I got into active public kink. It's been 10 years officially.
00:39:43
Ryan
Happy anniversary.
00:39:44
whiskey (any/all)
Thank you. Because I was looking for something to do, basically. Like I knew that I had interest in sex and sexuality and queerness.
00:39:54
whiskey (any/all)
non-monogamy, like I had just broken up with a boyfriend and I was kind of just like in my whole face, but I'm like, I actually want to be intentional more about dating people. Like, and not just being like, I'm just fucking around or like this, my first year as boyfriend, I had ended up cheating on him. So I was like, I knew in my heart that that was something that I wanted, but I didn't have language around it. So I went exploring, I had found out about this site called Fettlife.
00:40:22
whiskey (any/all)
I joined FetLife and through that I started going into public kink in Cleveland when I still lived there. um um And that was a really good base for me because it wasn't just the kink part of it. Like that's what brought us together was the kink aspect, but a really big arm of that was was a nonprofit that's called Ohio of Smart. And so they had to do education as part of that.
00:40:48
whiskey (any/all)
about having their funding was to do education. So we did a lot of skill sharing. We did a lot of safety about how to safely hit people. It's something innocuous about spanking, right? Like if you hit someone in an improper place, like learning biology, if you hit someone in the wrong place, you could cause kidney failure and they could die. So like, you know, like, like something even simple was, you know, and mundane is that, right?
00:41:10
Ryan
Yeah.
00:41:10
whiskey (any/all)
So we learned about rope, we learned about needles, puppy play, hypnosis, like all kinds of things. And I was lucky enough to get a grant to go to a conference, a leather conference in Atlanta called Leather Leadership Conference. And there I also got to meet like more people of color because Cleveland, it's a very white space.
00:41:33
whiskey (any/all)
but, um, got to go to Atlanta, so I met all these different people of color. I got to meet a lot of weather communities that were mostly people of color, were queer people, trans, like very progressive spaces. This was 2015, 2016, I want to say. Yeah. so ever since then, it's just been something that I'm very passionate about. Uh, I wanted to be a teacher when I was a child. Also, my dad told me not to get into that because there's no money in it. I'm very glad I listened to him.
00:41:59
whiskey (any/all)
but it literally like it's so it's so it's bloody right
00:42:00
Shauna (she/her)
Nonprofit work where all the money is.
00:42:02
Ryan
and notoriously raking it in.
00:42:03
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:42:07
Ryan
Yeah.
00:42:07
whiskey (any/all)
But that that's something that I've taken with me about sharing education with people, making sure that if you're going to do these things, make sure that you do them in a safe way, right?
00:42:16
Ryan
yeah
00:42:17
whiskey (any/all)
So I got caught very young and ever pretty much ever since then I've done so much organizing for it, just kink and queerness and making sure that spaces are disability friendly, that marginalized people feel welcome there.
00:42:32
whiskey (any/all)
I've started and been part of so many different types of kink groups. The one I'm in right now is called Aero Vince Pittsburgh. so yeah, we, that's just mostly what we focus on and we do a lot of consent roundtables. We're having our first play party next month.
00:42:46
whiskey (any/all)
It's just something that i it's ah ah it's a great expression for people to own their sexuality and to own that part of them, because it's such an essential base thing that we do, right?
00:42:46
Ryan
Oh.
00:42:58
whiskey (any/all)
also remaining the fact that it's like kink is a aspect of sexuality. it's not necessarily It doesn't necessarily need sex to be valid, it is a fun way to express just silliness and protocol to actually have understanding of self.
00:43:13
whiskey (any/all)
to like find a better part of yourself by um having those desires met and having your emotional needs met. a lot of that is very much intertwined with each other for me.
00:43:23
Ryan
I like what you were just sort of, you know, beginning to really get into and sort of how kink serves purposes that are non-sexual. Like something as simple as like the movie that we're going to talk about that, you know, really kind of focuses more on just like a dom sub dynamic than the larger, you know, sort of BDSM world. There's a lot of other kinks that are involved, but that,
00:43:50
Ryan
to be able to have an intentional, well-partnered, dumb subscene where you are literally like letting complete control go and like, you know, I'm newer-ish, like, I mean,
00:44:10
Ryan
sex and sexuality being what it is like again we were lucky at at an early age to get some some exposure like talk sex and queers folk like i i i had heard the expression rim job you know well before i knew what it was or how to do it very well uh and uh but like i've just had a very my first you know partner lover whatever like we were in sort of like a non-monogamous situation and we're like talking through it we did it very poorly and you know, but like my relationship to sex and monogamy has always been sort of left of center, you know, whatever that might mean and and now as an adult like understanding how gender and
00:45:01
Ryan
like control and power dynamics, all are things that you not only choose to engage in. Again, my only real experience is with like Dom and Sub play, but is like you come out of it feeling like a different person. And if you care for each other in the right way, that's a wonderful, beautiful thing. And I like I'm I love how you how you how you sort of primed us for the conversation. I appreciate it.
00:45:31
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, of course.
00:45:32
Ryan
Sean out.
00:45:33
whiskey (any/all)
And it's...
00:45:34
Ryan
Go ahead.
00:45:35
whiskey (any/all)
No, go ahead.
00:45:35
Ryan
Sorry, I missed you.
00:45:35
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, Sean, if you have anything.
00:45:36
Shauna (she/her)
Oh, oh, yeah. Well, I mean, and just like thinking back, like, so like, I also have experiences, you know, with the community and with like, you know, with different practices and, you know, i have been in dynamics myself in different ways. And so like seeing all of that kind of ability to kind of let go and release what you're feeling and especially as we are so constantly in this period of feeling out of control and you know this is kind of getting into one of like the themes of the movie that I really felt but we are especially when everything feels out of control to feel like you are at least in this moment safe and under control even as bad shit you know is happening to you or whatnot like you are still okay and you are in good hands and taken care of
00:46:24
Shauna (she/her)
And I think there's something very powerful to that in relation to both our political climate, but just in general as you know people living and working through their shit in different ways.
00:46:36
Ryan
working through it. yeah What you you just said, like even when bad things are happening in this safe, controlled space, like bad things can happen here, but like I know I have control over it. Even if I'm out of control, I still have control. I still have the ultimate ability to say, this ends now.
00:46:58
Ryan
and like that sort of microcosm even more so of like the things that are happening to you because one thing that I will say has never really appealed to me in this world is like pain. I'm i'm simply a pleasure girly like wee wee yay I love pleasure pain not so much that's not to again I blanket we're not trying to kink shame if somebody missteps in how they're talking you know give us some grace i don't talk about kink a lot whiskey is you know whiskey's got the shit down like you know a decade in but i don't talk a lot about kinks uh publicly so
00:47:31
whiskey (any/all)
look look look
00:47:36
Ryan
you know i'm I'm not trying to kink shame when I say like pain is just not for me. I don't care if anyone else does it. I don't want to experience pain. So that idea of like perhaps the value in it is that like I am in control of this pain that is being placed onto me or however like whatever the express way of saying it is. like Maybe that is where the pleasure is.
00:48:02
Ryan
Maybe that's just what I hadn't considered is like, why would you submit yourself to that? Well, because you don't, you get control over it. The rest of the world, you don't. That's wild.
00:48:11
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah. Yeah, i I will say that's definitely, and if this is audio only for you, I am a Black person.
00:48:12
Shauna (she/her)
Mm hmm.
00:48:21
whiskey (any/all)
So so so I understand that there there are a lot of people of color, and especially for Black people.
00:48:23
Ryan
Yeah.
00:48:28
Ryan
yeah
00:48:29
whiskey (any/all)
And that's something that like I've um um you know had to try to shed some misconceptions to other Black people about, about being into kink and being okay with pain.
00:48:40
whiskey (any/all)
like i'm um I'm like you, Ryan. I'm like a i'm a pleasure doll.
00:48:43
Ryan
Yay. Yes.
00:48:45
whiskey (any/all)
That's what I like.
00:48:45
Ryan
Yes.
00:48:46
whiskey (any/all)
I like a little pain mixed in, but it's not the number one thing for me, right?
00:48:46
Ryan
Please. Sure.
00:48:51
Ryan
It's discomfort, not pain.
00:48:52
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, yeah. And and that's and that perfectly valid, right? Because like not not everyone wants that, right? And I think sometimes, one, people have misconceptions about kink, and they just think it is that DS dynamic, or it's just being paddled, or flogged, or whipped, or you know all that kind of stuff. And it's like it's not just that. There's a lot more that goes into it.
00:49:13
whiskey (any/all)
that that can work for people, but also just the pleasure. It can be like an actual overstimulation of pleasure. Like you're actually having so much that it's like, oh my God, it's too much, right? But having to explain to other Black people that it's like, look, I like this because it is something that I'm choosing for myself. it's I wasn't brainwashed into this. It's not because of my trauma. Like I genuinely enjoy doing this because of the satisfaction that it gives me as an individual.
00:49:41
whiskey (any/all)
Right. So that's that's definitely been major hurdle, I feel like. And that's why I wanted to try to normalize these things to a certain extent, let people know that it's like you don't you don't have to carry a lot of that shame. And also as a child who grew up in the Christian church, like we need to once we break out of a lot of shame spirals, I feel like a lot more people will become free. Like like like god God is not punishing you.
00:50:09
whiskey (any/all)
God's not mad at you. God wants you to have pleasure. god you know If you even still are a Christian in traditional sense, god's one God wants you to get married and like have sex with someone and like enjoy that.
00:50:12
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:23
Ryan
Amen.
00:50:25
whiskey (any/all)
All of the values of life, joy, pleasure, pain, sadness, despair, like that is a human experience. So have that.
00:50:35
Ryan
Amen.
00:50:38
Ryan
I really, really wanna dive into the conversation around race play because I do actually think I have a very hard line there. I, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.
00:50:48
Ryan
Okay, got it.
00:50:49
whiskey (any/all)
No, we don't do that.
00:50:50
Ryan
you Yeah, you started talking about it.
00:50:51
whiskey (any/all)
No.
00:50:53
Ryan
And I remember my very first claw in Cleveland, I saw a white man toting around a black man and the black man had wit marks all on him.
00:50:57
whiskey (any/all)
Oh my God.
00:51:05
Ryan
And I was like, whoa whoa, and I don't even know that that was race play.
00:51:05
whiskey (any/all)
yeah
00:51:08
Shauna (she/her)
You can't ignore.
00:51:08
Ryan
That just so happened to be the racial dynamic between these two people that might have just been involved in impact play.
00:51:14
whiskey (any/all)
Exactly. Right. And and that that's definitely one thing for me.
00:51:16
Ryan
Yeah.
00:51:18
whiskey (any/all)
Whips are a trigger. that's That is one of the few things that I'm like, nope, I'm going in the other room.
00:51:20
Ryan
Nope.
00:51:24
Ryan
Yup.
00:51:24
whiskey (any/all)
Y'all got it. Just even hearing the sound is like, no.
00:51:25
Ryan
Yup.
00:51:28
Ryan
Yup.
00:51:29
whiskey (any/all)
But at the same time, some people are into that. Whatever.
00:51:32
Ryan
Yup.
00:51:34
whiskey (any/all)
That's between you and your therapist, your God, whatever.
00:51:37
Ryan
Your ancestors, because they will have questions when you when they come to you.
00:51:38
whiskey (any/all)
you know they Yeah, they're going to be like,
00:51:41
Ryan
They will have questions about why you let this happen. Like, you know yeah.
00:51:44
whiskey (any/all)
So what were you like, ah but, you know, that's that's between you and what you do.
00:51:46
Ryan
Yeah.
00:51:50
Ryan
Exactly all that cool race play that I do not I have no patience for it.
00:51:54
whiskey (any/all)
and
00:51:57
Ryan
I have no Reframing for it. i I say this with my full chest after my whole I'm sorry if I can't shame if you are into race play you have some shit that you need to work through irrespective of any other person you got to figure yourself out and why you would be cool with that because that is a different layer of harm that is generational like
00:52:10
whiskey (any/all)
and think harry
00:52:19
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:52:25
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:27
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:52:27
Ryan
Okay. Cool. I'm glad that I was really worried that you were going down this path of being like, you know, and when it comes to race play, like for me, I was very nervous.
00:52:34
whiskey (any/all)
Oh, no.
00:52:38
whiskey (any/all)
No, no, no.
00:52:39
Ryan
Phew.
00:52:39
whiskey (any/all)
No, that I mean, I personally, like I said, ah there's very few things because like taboo is Taboo is taboo.
00:52:47
Ryan
Right.
00:52:47
whiskey (any/all)
There are some things that like you could kind of have more of a gray-ish area about, like if you're really into like certain fluids.
00:52:55
Ryan
each play. Oh, sure. Yeah.
00:52:57
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, like age play, you know.
00:52:57
Ryan
and Yes.
00:52:58
Shauna (she/her)
Well, I was thinking even with misogyny, like, and I feel like that kind of is something that's not, it's somewhat analogous in terms of, I feel like, in terms of like, when, you know, this like slut shaming within, you know, like being able to take that because is it is like, in like,
00:53:02
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:53:18
Shauna (she/her)
get power from it. Like I understand it in theory, even if some things in practice are much different, you know, but that's where, but like I see a certain kind of work through there too, in at least in in that regard.
00:53:21
Ryan
Right.
00:53:33
Ryan
Yeah.
00:53:33
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:53:33
Ryan
And because I'm thinking even humiliation, like humiliation, again, that's just not for me.
00:53:40
Ryan
i'm I don't really particularly like to be involved on either end. And race play is like dehumanization beyond humiliation.
00:53:47
whiskey (any/all)
Yes.
00:53:47
Shauna (she/her)
boom
00:53:48
Ryan
And so while I am, you know, tolerant and will engage in a little bit of Humiliation for the pleasure of my partner. That's like that is where like we're approaching the line and then there's a line I don't cross.
00:54:06
Shauna (she/her)
Right. And you know, and there's something to playing with your lines and that way of where youre you were before the hard cross, you know, like, and I think there's something to that.
00:54:10
Ryan
Mm hmm.
00:54:15
Shauna (she/her)
And again, that giving in that power and giving that up that control can be very freeing, you know, and trusting. so And it's because trust is such an important part of the whole process and being willing to trust someone to play with your life to get
00:54:24
whiskey (any/all)
Mm
00:54:26
Ryan
right
00:54:27
whiskey (any/all)
-hmm. Yeah.
00:54:31
whiskey (any/all)
Mm
00:54:31
Shauna (she/her)
close without going over is I think an interesting, you know, they think there's something to be said for that in the context, you know, and like, and I, it's just like, yeah.
00:54:34
whiskey (any/all)
-hmm.
00:54:39
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah. Well, especially with this film in particular, like and I know that we'll touch on this a little bit later, but ah ah the fact that like not every person who practices kink or is into kink or BDSM has a trauma around the certain thing that they perform.
00:54:58
whiskey (any/all)
I think that's another misconception that people have.
00:54:58
Ryan
Yes.
00:55:00
whiskey (any/all)
They assume that something happened to you and that's why you're into this or whatever. And it's like, no, there's just sometimes my brain is sometimes people's brains are just high like hardwired that way to be into this thing.
00:55:10
Ryan
Right.
00:55:14
whiskey (any/all)
Again, we are complex individuals as human beings, there are certain parts, there are certain things about our brains that we just do not understand yet. And we're not going to understand for while, right.
00:55:21
Shauna (she/her)
Right. um And like, you know, and I'm hearing you both talk and I'm just like, Oh yeah.
00:55:27
Shauna (she/her)
And I'm like, I've been ah like, you know, I'm, I'm a lot less practicing these days, but at one point I was a very heavy bottom and like, like, especially for like impact play, like was, that was a thing that like, I mean, I, by my ex was a black belt.
00:55:36
Ryan
Yeah.
00:55:40
Shauna (she/her)
So it was very, like, like part of like, you know, like it was,
00:55:41
Ryan
Yeah.
00:55:45
Shauna (she/her)
and like it had a sense of theatrics to him. And so there was a lot to kind of doing that kind of performing in public in a kind of, like in you know, in a play space way, like public play space.
00:55:55
Ryan
yeah
00:55:56
Shauna (she/her)
But like performing, you know, and there was like, you know, having fun with it, like singing during it, kind of like really like being like, like really like we're, you know, you know he's doing spitting back kicks and we're just both like laughing like laughing like with each other during this whole process.
00:56:11
Shauna (she/her)
And like, there's something to, That like, you know, and like I really, and I do appreciate that kind of perform going back to wrestling, the performance aspect of it all. Like, you know, and I think like, like I used to love, like he was very, it's he's a fucking asshole, but the one that he was so good at fire play.
00:56:21
Ryan
Yes.
00:56:29
Shauna (she/her)
It was amazing. And I used to love like, with like the fire wands and like, it would just, you know, the way that it would apparently just dance off my back kind of like that interesting, like, and it was such, it was like a warm massage.
00:56:36
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:56:42
Shauna (she/her)
It was delightful.
00:56:45
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, I do fire play.
00:56:45
Ryan
That is, mm-hmm.
00:56:46
whiskey (any/all)
Like, that's something that I practice doing, right?
00:56:47
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:56:48
whiskey (any/all)
So, yeah.
00:56:49
Shauna (she/her)
yeah
00:56:50
Ryan
My interest is peaked. like
00:56:52
whiskey (any/all)
It's really fun.
00:56:53
Shauna (she/her)
Well, you know what? Wait, oh, peaked.
00:56:56
Ryan
Like... Peaked, yes. Yeah. What did you think I said?
00:56:58
Shauna (she/her)
oh yeah that's cool too nothing duffer
00:57:01
Ryan
You're fucking wild. Well, because I love the way you said like playing with your lines until you until you cross it. Like for me, that's one where I'm like, no, I obviously don't want you to fucking put fire on me.
00:57:16
Ryan
And then all of a sudden you said, dances across my back and warm massage. And I was like, well, that line seems slightly dotted now.
00:57:23
Shauna (she/her)
Oh, yeah, that's cool too.
00:57:26
Ryan
Like the line is now perforated.
00:57:26
Shauna (she/her)
Oh, nothing.
00:57:28
Ryan
I'm i'm open to conversation.
00:57:29
whiskey (any/all)
with
00:57:30
Ryan
It would have been a hard no, but like you know that is exactly what the beauty in in Kinkin and like just expanding your to pleasure and and like like experiences.
00:57:43
Shauna (she/her)
really Well, and honestly, I think it's why education and it's why community are both so important because they're very good at both
00:57:49
Ryan
Mm-hmm.
00:57:55
Shauna (she/her)
broadening your horizons in terms of potential interest, but also in seeing what is and isn't okay, both for you and kind of in general. And I think that like, you know, getting to thinking about this movie, like you can tell that these two really are involved in like, like the like The very isolatedness of them both during all of this, is I think, explains why some of the weirder parts of the movie.
00:58:20
Shauna (she/her)
But really, the like but i like if you know if she had friends like in the scene and was like saying some of the stuff, I feel like they'd be like,
00:58:20
Ryan
Yeah.
00:58:20
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
00:58:29
Shauna (she/her)
I, are you sure?
00:58:30
Ryan
Yeah.
00:58:31
Shauna (she/her)
He is not taking good care of you. He is not, you know, like in all of those kinds of things that would absolutely help, you know, curb abuse, that helps curb, you know, issues and also helps, you know, everyone be better.
00:58:35
Ryan
One of my...
00:58:41
Ryan
Yes.
00:58:45
Shauna (she/her)
And I think that's where, why do you think community is so important in that regard?
00:58:49
Ryan
So let's jump into the actual movie itself.
00:58:51
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
00:58:54
Ryan
so, Shauna, take us through a quick plot summary.
00:58:59
Shauna (she/her)
All right, so this story stars Lee Holloway played by Maggie Gyllenhaal. And this socially awkward, probably like, I just think I was like, there's a lot of autism going on or like a lot of like early 2000s autism coded people.
00:59:11
Ryan
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:59:15
Ryan
Yup.
00:59:15
Shauna (she/her)
And like, I just like, she's quirky.
00:59:17
Ryan
Big time.
00:59:18
Shauna (she/her)
And I was like, Oh no, she's yeah, that's okay.
00:59:22
Ryan
no she's autistic
00:59:22
Shauna (she/her)
There's a name for that that you will learn about yourself much later, my dear. But anyways, so yeah. And so she's you know just coming out of inpatient treatment for self-harm.
00:59:34
Shauna (she/her)
And her family has a lot of issues. They're very controlling of her.
00:59:38
whiskey (any/all)
Mmhmm.
00:59:40
Shauna (she/her)
like Literally, she's a grown ass woman still getting taken from to and from work with her mom sitting outside the car in the car the whole time.
00:59:42
whiskey (any/all)
Mmhmm.
00:59:45
Ryan
No, she's autistic.
00:59:49
Shauna (she/her)
She's you know really feeling a lot of this kind of thing. And then she become she's very good at typing. And, you know, she's like, I think it was interesting how they kept referring to like, oh, let me see your typing grades.
01:00:03
Shauna (she/her)
Like, it was like, well like, all right.
01:00:04
Ryan
It's totally a thing. did i mean i I went to a well-resourced school like growing up. And so I feel very lucky that starting in fifth grade, we were taking typing tests.
01:00:16
Ryan
like you know paper I don't think that perhaps that was maybe more generational.
01:00:17
whiskey (any/all)
Mm hmm.
01:00:17
Shauna (she/her)
Oh, yeah.
01:00:20
Ryan
But I just like we i know not every school district had like computer labs. like We had computer labs where we all learned how to type.
01:00:25
Shauna (she/her)
And.
01:00:27
Ryan
And that now, as a 35-year-old, like What did you s- if school did not do a lot in terms of preparing me for adulthood being like having a job, any of that shit, but I know how to type and I know how to square dance.
01:00:44
Ryan
So, give me a job.
01:00:48
Ryan
Sorry.
01:00:48
Shauna (she/her)
I didn't want to swing dance because of my high school. So I got it.
01:00:51
Ryan
Yes, yes.
01:00:52
Shauna (she/her)
Like, yeah.
01:00:53
Ryan
Alright, keep us going, sorry.
01:00:53
Shauna (she/her)
So yeah. So Megan Jones all goes to, you know, starts working for this E. Edward Gray played by James Spader. And I'm just like, Oh, and so like Ultron is this like attorney and, you know, he's very, you know, strict and exacting and autistic.
01:01:10
Shauna (she/her)
He's very autistic about a lot of things in his life, like a very, like a, they're different kinds of autistic, but they are both so distinctively autistic is the way that I think of it.
01:01:13
whiskey (any/all)
Super, yeah.
01:01:19
Ryan
Yes.
01:01:20
Shauna (she/her)
But like, and id frankly, I've seen this exact relationship dynamic and many other people I know, like but that's neither here nor there.
01:01:23
Ryan
Yo.
01:01:28
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah. And so, and so then. they start being a little less professional with each other as, you know, he's talking, you know, disciplining her.
01:01:40
Shauna (she/her)
And then suddenly it gets pretty heavy, pretty fast as, you know, they're going and then he's like, he abruptly stops, you know, probably because he's her employer and doing it in their office where there are other employees employees are just around.
01:01:51
Ryan
Yeah, right.
01:01:55
Shauna (she/her)
And apparently this just happens.
01:01:58
Ryan
Yes.
01:01:58
Shauna (she/her)
in a way that like is like, Oh yeah, you know, of course my secretary with who I'm inevitably going to do very kinky things with. Yes, of course.
01:02:05
Ryan
Right.
01:02:05
Shauna (she/her)
I was stopping in shame.
01:02:06
Ryan
Okay.
01:02:07
Shauna (she/her)
And I was like, gosh.
01:02:09
Ryan
Let's pause
Movie 'Secretary' Analysis
01:02:09
Ryan
right there because, i you know, the moment it takes the turn into the kink, I feel like it's a good place to kind of start and unpack some of our thoughts because I think all three of us just watched it again.
01:02:12
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
01:02:21
Ryan
I had never seen this movie before. It seems like Whiskey and Shauna had, they you both rewatched it, right?
01:02:24
whiskey (any/all)
early Yeah.
01:02:25
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
01:02:29
Shauna (she/her)
Absolutely.
01:02:30
Ryan
So first thought out of the gate, here here are my top few notes that I think are kind of funny. The bondage rig she's in to start with is kind of hysterical.
01:02:42
Ryan
Thankfully, I had seen that screen cap like on, you know, searching for this until I was prepared for it. But if that movie opened with Maggie Gyllenhaal fully like the fucking scarecrow, I would have like absolutely lost my shit.
01:02:55
Ryan
I was not prepared.
01:02:56
Shauna (she/her)
spen
01:02:57
Ryan
her sister's wedding is tacky.
01:02:58
Shauna (she/her)
Oh my god, that's a great Halloween costume. The scarecrow.
01:03:00
Ryan
Yes, yes.
01:03:01
Shauna (she/her)
Wait, no, I'm sorry. like
01:03:02
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:03:03
Ryan
Oh, you know you're fine. Her sister's wedding is tacky. I'm obsessed with the purple rain slicker that she wears and her walking in with no resume and a crinkled typing test.
01:03:13
Ryan
What a wild time. Then I get to, this is James Spader? Because in season one, episode one of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, cor Cordelia is giving Buffy a coolness test.
01:03:28
Ryan
And, uh, she's asking her all these things, like vamp nail polish, in or out. And then she says, James Spader. And Buffy's response is, he needs to call me. Do people think James Spader is hot?
01:03:41
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:03:42
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
01:03:43
Ryan
What?
01:03:44
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:03:45
Ryan
Do I need to look at young James Spader?
01:03:47
whiskey (any/all)
No, when he was young.
01:03:49
Ryan
Oh.
01:03:51
whiskey (any/all)
Mm.
01:03:52
Ryan
Okay. He's hot in the same way like Rob Lowe was.
01:03:53
whiskey (any/all)
Whoa.
01:03:54
Ryan
Oh, I don't know.
01:03:54
Shauna (she/her)
you.
01:03:57
Ryan
Okay, whether or not James Spader is hot is not the point. Although it is kind of the point. Because what this interesting thing that happens where we get all this information about the character Lee and know she self-harms, we see some of her like rituals around self-harming.
01:04:17
Ryan
We also see that she has literal daddy issues. And then we get to this major encounter between the two of them where he confronts her and says like, you're never going to cut yourself ever again. And then shortly thereafter, he kind of realizes that she's into this, you know, role that she is filling.
01:04:37
Ryan
and they start this power play. But like first and foremost, I think that would fix me. That first spanking scene, my note is this first spanking scene is wild.
01:04:45
Shauna (she/her)
and
01:04:51
Ryan
And then the next line is, I'm not going to lie, this would fix me. like i I think that I get it. I get it, Lee Holloway. So what are what are your own thoughts getting that far into that into the movie?
01:05:02
Shauna (she/her)
The importance of negotiation and how nobody in this movie believes in it.
01:05:02
whiskey (any/all)
Whoo.
01:05:05
whiskey (any/all)
No one was talking about anything.
01:05:06
Shauna (she/her)
And I think that like you're an attorney, not a lot of negotiating.
01:05:10
Ryan
Right, right, right.
01:05:13
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, that was definitely throughout the whole thing. That was something in my notes that I was very concerned about. Like you are a lawyer, you have an Esquire within your name. You don't even go by your first name. Like you go by your middle name. So like,
01:05:28
whiskey (any/all)
that's already weird on its face and then yeah there's no negotiation they don't enter into an agreement until way later and the way that that happens is also very wild but i also i also took a note about the the outfits because bitch what the fuck are you wearing like and you see you actually it's kind of cool because you do kind of see like as she progresses like her outfits get better and like
01:05:39
Ryan
Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:47
Ryan
What are you wearing? Like Devilware's product.
01:05:56
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, like she's she's more confident.
01:05:57
Shauna (she/her)
Mm.
01:05:58
whiskey (any/all)
She's wearing more actual business attire. It's not super frumpy and just like whatever. And I did make a note of that scene when she's in the bathroom and she like puts the makeup on.
01:06:10
Ryan
Yeah.
01:06:10
whiskey (any/all)
I was like, she really thought she was caught with that one. That one was wild.
01:06:12
Ryan
She really did! She said, up towards the eye. And like, literally might as well have just gone, like, immediately. Tongue pop, fan clack.
01:06:24
Ryan
She was like, killed it. Beat the house down.
01:06:27
whiskey (any/all)
Yes. And um I did also make a note that, you know, she just got out of this inpatient, one of her little quirks that she does because like the tongue thing he points out and as he starts like berating her a little bit, he starts like nagging her a little bit, like her little tongue thing and like the toe tapping and stuff.
01:06:37
Shauna (she/her)
Well.
01:06:43
whiskey (any/all)
But she does practice like positive affirmations a lot of the time, like when she first gets the job, she like says in the mirror she's like I she goes through her speech she's like I want to be a secretary I've never had work like all kinds of stuff so I wonder if that's something that she learns like inpatient and Edward also kind of does the same thing like there's a part where he's in the mirror and he's like putting the woman's photo away and he's like no you can do this like it's it's very interesting like you said Shauna like they are both autistic where they have different flavors but it's the same
01:06:59
Ryan
Yeah.
01:07:08
Ryan
Yeah.
01:07:14
Ryan
yeah
01:07:15
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah, like, when I think of like, honestly, it made me think of back when I was in college, and when I cut my hair, and I was like, and I like, I threw away like, all ah like, like, ah my all of like, my like, women's clothes of the like, I'm like, this is like, and I was like, you're like, that denial of self is like something that like,
01:07:37
whiskey (any/all)
Mm.
01:07:38
Shauna (she/her)
really spoke to me in this. Like we have one point like during the movie of we're like, Oh, I don't want to be this. This isn't who I am trying to hide and ignore parts of yourself. And you're like, before actually like, well, because, you know, so much of, you know, obviously there are, you know, kink and gender are different. And then there's the, but, but that's still element of like, Oh, I shouldn't be doing this. Society says I shouldn't be doing this. You know, especially like having transitioned a decade ago, you know, then again, everything old is new again. So
01:08:08
Ryan
right
01:08:08
Shauna (she/her)
Here we are, but.
01:08:10
Ryan
So one of the things that I wanted to like specifically touch on in that like sort of first half of the movie is like her the relationship to her self-injurious behavior. i was like really They did a great job of portraying what a person who struggles with self-harm or what a person who practices self-harm experiences like all the way down to the ritualization of it.
01:08:38
Ryan
you know a lot of times when self-harm is portrayed like it showed as if there's no intention behind it or like there's no practice behind it and that's that is definitely how some people experience it but I was like oh the whoever wrote this whoever crafted this has struggled with self-harm like the kit the whole kit I was like
01:08:52
Shauna (she/her)
Thank you.
01:09:01
Ryan
I feel like I'm case managing again, but like, you know, this is, this is a very real world. And I think from an uninformed perspective, a person might see that as, you know, like, I don't know, silly or something.
01:09:16
Ryan
I don't know. There was something about it that like the stickers on it that made it sort of like juvenile added this different dynamic to it. But when, when, go ahead.
01:09:26
Shauna (she/her)
yeah like.
01:09:27
Ryan
Sorry. sure
01:09:28
Shauna (she/her)
Oh, I was going to say, like, even the way that she, like you said, the problem was, well, yeah I just, I screwed up this one time just because such this situation, this part of it was different. You know, the part with like her mom, like messing up her mom messed up her routine, which is why I went deeper.
01:09:42
Ryan
Yes.
01:09:42
Shauna (she/her)
It's not that she did it. It was just that, Oh, well this time the problem was this time and me doing it wrong. Like, and I feel like that kind of same ritualization of it all, like it's really like the, and the mundanity of it though.
01:09:48
Ryan
Right.
01:09:54
Ryan
Yes.
01:09:54
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:09:56
Ryan
I also, I'm, I need to put a reminder to like do a trigger warning about all the things that this episode contains. because like like we're pretty graphically talking about self-harm, but like that's a part of this movie.
01:10:06
Shauna (she/her)
No, truly.
01:10:08
Ryan
And something when he says to her about like never cutting yourself again, there was a part of me that was like, yeah, it works just like that. Never again. But then she.
01:10:19
Ryan
it it does work for her. And that, you know, sort of like comment I made, like, I think this would fix me, like, there's a part of me, like, so something that I struggled with that I would love to hear what the two of you think about, like, relating the self harm and the daddy issues to her participating in a Dom sub relationship that involved, you know, some impact play with an older man, like,
01:10:48
Ryan
there are people who that fall fall into that dynamic. Like that's not to be like, oh my God, how silly or like how, you know, but I also don't want it to what you were saying earlier, Whiskey, like it's not all related to trauma. And that definitely feels like it's part of the message and I'm having mixed feelings about that part of the message.
01:11:12
whiskey (any/all)
it It's definitely an imperfect story, which is why I do still think it's important in that way.
01:11:16
Ryan
Sure, yeah.
01:11:19
whiskey (any/all)
Right. Cause I, I'm hearing both of you like pull out different things that I'm like, Oh no, this is something that I had taken a note about, but I couldn't like really put a fine point on, especially like, the ritualistic nature of her doing the self harm. Right. It kind of reminds me of like people, and it is in a sense, an addiction, right? She has an addiction to doing this thing.
01:11:44
whiskey (any/all)
And so instead of doing the self-harm, she now finds a different outlet for her pain through the control, through giving up control to Edward, of through finding that outlet through this making. And we see that also when she, when he cuts her off.
01:12:02
whiskey (any/all)
And she tries to self, she tries to spank herself. Like that note, I i was like, lol girl, been there. Like sometimes you want that release, but you're trying to give it to yourself and it's not the same because you don't have that same energy exchange. You don't have that same power exchange with that other person.
01:12:20
whiskey (any/all)
So I think that kind of ties in in an interesting way. It is, like I said, it's an imperfect story, but her replacing that pain with this outlet is almost kind of healthy in a way, right?
01:12:34
whiskey (any/all)
I don't necessarily think that BDSM is the answer to everyone's problems, but for her, like you said, it worked.
01:12:38
Ryan
A lot of you would benefit from it if we're being honest. Like, it's not the answer for everyone, but some of you hoes should look into it because it might be.
01:12:46
whiskey (any/all)
but
01:12:47
Ryan
It might be.
01:12:47
whiskey (any/all)
If you're a chronic cheater, you know, maybe you try to be non-monogamous, you know? I don't know if you just get off on the thrill of cheating, but, you know you know, if you are the type of person who, like, I just really like getting my hair pulled, you might want to look into, like, finding someone who likes to pull your hair all the time.
01:13:02
Ryan
Exactly. And stop trying to retrofit your shit into, you know, anyways, sorry, Chana.
01:13:04
Shauna (she/her)
and
01:13:06
whiskey (any/all)
With other people, exactly, yeah.
01:13:07
Ryan
Yeah.
01:13:08
Shauna (she/her)
Well, and I think the thing about you can really sense how out of control she felt in her life. And I think that because in many ways, her family and her parents were very controlling of her.
01:13:21
Shauna (she/her)
like And that's what you know I was saying earlier about with like the car and like especially when they're being distrustful of her.
01:13:22
whiskey (any/all)
Yes.
01:13:27
Shauna (she/her)
And so she feels both simultaneously controlled and out of control, which is a terrible combination of feel internally. that you have just this inescapability, but yet no desire or will to do it, no want. But again, she has not opted in herself. She has not consented to the kind of control her family gives. And it all just really ends up drive and it makes sense why she would find being in a relationship with someone so Exacting that she knows exactly what she needs to do to succeed and she knows exactly how to make him happy in a way that she Never could figure it out with her family
01:14:09
whiskey (any/all)
Yep.
01:14:09
Ryan
Yes. so And it's interesting, I did not see the relationship with the family so much about control because like from ah from from a clinical perspective, like those are just things that happen within families of people who self-harm or who struggle with mental illness. like The thing that I noticed that I thought was really interesting was she says, I think it's okay to take the locks off the cabinet.
01:14:38
Ryan
And her mom immediately listens. Like, if it were really about control, she wouldn't have been able to say, I think it's time.
01:14:41
Shauna (she/her)
Mm.
01:14:46
Ryan
I mean, granted, that's very like, that's very diluted kind of version of it. But like, the fact that she does, she's able to recognize that she's not really necessarily a threat to herself.
01:14:58
Ryan
And her parents listen, I thought, Was because I know from experiences and within my own life like once people are convinced that the knives should be put away the knives probably aren't coming back out until the person who put them away decided that they should be back out and so and and since even with like the The ride to work thing like I more saw that as like the mom one clearly has like no
01:15:11
whiskey (any/all)
Right.
01:15:25
Ryan
I will let me freeze that it doesn't look like the mom has a job because obviously she can just wait for her daughter at her job so like i'm thinking about all of the you know adults who like.
01:15:37
Ryan
just keep doing that for their kids. Like they do it for their kids and then they never stop. And so I think, and maybe control and sort of like infantilization for for her family, like not seeing her as an adult or like capable of doing those things, but it it's all kind of the the the the dynamic is messy, whatever it is.
01:16:01
Ryan
And it clearly shows up in this the DS dynamic.
01:16:01
Shauna (she/her)
Well.
01:16:06
Shauna (she/her)
Because as I think it's her perception, you know, as much as whether the truth of it is there being X, Y, yeah like at the end of the day, that is, I'm just more just trying to think from her perspective as she goes to this job and enters into this relationship with Mr.
01:16:09
Ryan
m
01:16:22
Shauna (she/her)
Gray.
01:16:23
Ryan
yeah Yeah, so before we jump into the second half of the movie is the Mr.
01:16:29
Ryan
Grey thing where it came because isn't that his name? It's his name is not If 50 Shades of Grey is his name really mr.
01:16:37
Shauna (she/her)
His name is Gray.
01:16:37
Ryan
Grey.
01:16:38
Shauna (she/her)
Yes, it is Christian.
01:16:38
Ryan
Oh
01:16:38
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:16:39
Shauna (she/her)
His name is Christian Gray.
01:16:41
Ryan
Okay, got it.
01:16:42
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:16:42
Ryan
So is that a nod? It has to be.
01:16:47
whiskey (any/all)
I can't confirm because I do know that Fifty Shades was a Twilight ripoff, but it was with more BDSM, so it could it could be influenced by that because I know that Christian Grey is supposed to be Edward Cullen.
01:16:54
Ryan
Sure.
01:16:58
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah, the characters are all based on, it's like a, it's a fan fiction that ended up becoming its own thing.
01:17:04
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:17:04
Ryan
Got it.
01:17:05
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:17:05
Ryan
Which kind of makes me think that it is uninspired and that's literally what the person just saw. Oh, Mr. Grey! And just use that again.
01:17:11
Shauna (she/her)
Having read it, it also, it absolutely, I don't like, no, and I've, you know, I've also, I've read much better fan fiction.
01:17:14
Ryan
Feels that way?
01:17:15
whiskey (any/all)
I could feel it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the parallels are there. Yeah, I mean, the parallels are there because it's like that that character is in a DS relationship with her boss.
01:17:19
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
01:17:19
Ryan
Yeah.
01:17:25
whiskey (any/all)
She just gets flown out. He's just super rich. Like that's, that's kind of the thing.
01:17:28
Ryan
Right.
01:17:29
whiskey (any/all)
And he's got like a weird mother situation. This guy, I don't.
01:17:33
Shauna (she/her)
just need
01:17:34
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:17:35
Ryan
we We don't get any of his backstory, but there's definitely one there. There's definitely one there.
01:17:41
whiskey (any/all)
I did write like when she's asking him the questions later on, he's she's like, where are you from? That's the only question he answers.
01:17:48
Ryan
Yeah.
01:17:48
whiskey (any/all)
He's like, Des Moines, Iowa. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, you would be from Des Moines.
01:17:50
Ryan
Yup. Right. I do not believe you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. so that's, excuse me, a great, I think like a great,
01:17:58
Shauna (she/her)
you do.
01:17:58
Ryan
natural segue into it because something that comes up in the second half is, you know, we see him actively trying to stop. Like he's, we see him writing a letter to to Lee.
01:18:13
Ryan
So Chana, do you want to pick us back up?
01:18:15
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah, sure. Like he ends it cold. Like he is just all one day this relationship is over, this dynamics over. They didn't talk about it. It just felt like, and now, you know, like I really felt for her there.
01:18:29
Shauna (she/her)
Like all of a sudden, like this whole thing that was really giving her this focus and was giving, really helping her feel centered is now gone.
01:18:29
Ryan
Yeah.
01:18:37
Shauna (she/her)
And that is difficult, you know, and,
01:18:41
Ryan
yeah
01:18:42
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah, gosh, i I have more on that, but just up but but I'll put a pin on. But like but yeah, so this leaves Lee confused, heartbroken, and you know determined to prove her devotion.
01:18:52
Shauna (she/her)
She engages in extreme active endurance, waiting at desk for days without moving. When she also, even before that, I feel like she did a lot of, she kept trying to get him to do things like where she would do the like you know trigger activities that would, like not in like triggered, but like would trigger the sequence.
01:19:03
Ryan
Yes.
01:19:09
Ryan
No, is's that is that what the word is?
01:19:11
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's the, I guess, yeah.
01:19:14
whiskey (any/all)
well she uh she very much has brat tendencies and a brat ah for someone who doesn't know a brat is someone who will like go against the rules or to kind of like do little mischief and shenanigans to get the punishment which is sometimes called a punishment because it's like i want to be punished but i'm gonna push your boundaries to like make you do it for me
01:19:32
Ryan
Mhm.
01:19:37
Ryan
Yes.
01:19:38
whiskey (any/all)
so she has a little bit of those. So like, of his things is, uh, the, as she's a typist, so she'll miss, she started misspelling things on purpose. or like she would like not white.
01:19:47
Shauna (she/her)
This does seem pretty annoying though.
01:19:49
whiskey (any/all)
ah
01:19:51
Shauna (she/her)
this is a legal document.
01:19:53
whiskey (any/all)
It's a legal document. You're not spelling it. And if she would like not write out things or she would, try to make him read the paper so he could get the pen out and like write John and stuff. she started doing little things like that to particularly get the punishment and he's cut her off. He's not interested in that.
01:20:10
Ryan
Yeah, so Shauna used the expression ah trigger activities, and like i don't I don't know if that's if that's a word, but that's one of the things that I was like curious about. like you know In long-term DS relationships,
01:20:27
Ryan
like the established boundaries of scenes and when things begin and end. like I have to imagine that there are just things that you do to say, I'm ready to start this scene.
01:20:40
Ryan
And it's like innocuous and part of part of the scene because like
01:20:44
whiskey (any/all)
and
01:20:45
Ryan
you know It's not just like, top bend over, I'm going to spank you now, as it is you know shown in in the in the movie, but like there's build up, there's foreplay. A scene that involves impact play could start three hours prior in a fucking parking lot with like a pretend car accident, not that I'm speaking from overseas.
01:21:05
Ryan
yeah No, that's not actually a personal experience, but it, it, like, you know, that shit can, that's the fun in it is like part of the fun. It is the buildup. And so, you know, seeing her do those very bratty things and like, first of all, I love the expression brat. I love, I call myself a brat and I was actually kind of annoyed when,
01:21:25
Ryan
uh, Charlie XCX's brat thing happened because I was like, no, no, no, different type. Still get the vibe, but I'm a different type of brat, which I get guess is kind of brat. But anyways, yeah. So I guess I'm sort of asking if, is that, I've never been in like a long-term sort of dynamic like that before. Is that like a common practice? Like, are there those things?
01:21:50
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, no, I mean, definitely, like you said, foreplay can start earlier. But yeah, that's part of the negotiation. And like, if you have that established dynamic, sometimes people just get ah sometimes it it's even as mundane as like scheduling it.
01:22:03
whiskey (any/all)
You're like, it's Wednesday night at 10 o'clock, you're going to be bent over. And you you're already coming, you already know what's happening.
01:22:09
Shauna (she/her)
Actually Thursday.
01:22:11
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:22:12
Shauna (she/her)
no no lived umly I just had to get them to make that reaction.
01:22:14
whiskey (any/all)
But yeah, but yeah there's also like little things that
01:22:21
Shauna (she/her)
Sorry.
01:22:21
whiskey (any/all)
There's also little things people can do, you know, like, oh, you know, if you if you want to have a little tonight, you know, maybe you're wearing that certain little outfit um um that like, you're like, I'm in a little headspace, this is what I'm doing.
01:22:36
whiskey (any/all)
So yeah, people people could have all kinds of little tells and stuff that aren't verbal, especially to get that going.
01:22:40
Ryan
Yeah. um Because, you know, the the difference in this is that she's unsuccessful. Like she's trying to bait him. She's trying to initiate play.
01:22:51
Ryan
And he is becoming increasingly disinterested or not expressing his interest because it's very clear that it's still there. But, you know, she doesn't he's he's trying to stop himself. He's trying to like end the relationship to the point where, you know, she puts a dead worm on a piece of paper and certified mails it to him, which the the sort of stalkery stuff, I was like, well, this is an unexpected turn, but that like sort of increasingly attention seeking behavior, but it eventually works.
01:23:31
Ryan
And he like, you know, red pen jerks off basically by circling the, the what's called the dead worm on his paper and then initiates this
01:23:39
Shauna (she/her)
It was very incorrect. Like wrong.
01:23:42
Ryan
It did not belong there.
01:23:45
Shauna (she/her)
This should...
01:23:47
Ryan
It should not be here.
01:23:48
Shauna (she/her)
Well, like, and all I can think of is the Steven universe song.
01:23:50
Ryan
autism, again.
01:23:51
Shauna (she/her)
Like, why don't you talk to each other?
01:23:54
Ryan
Right, just talk.
01:23:54
Shauna (she/her)
Give it a try. Why don't you talk about what happens? Like, but seriously, like all I could think about was like, talk to each other.
01:23:59
Ryan
so So...
01:24:02
Shauna (she/her)
Why was that the option? Why was never discussing with one another about why you should maybe like, Hey, actually, you know, I was having fun with this.
01:24:08
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:24:11
Shauna (she/her)
Did you not like this? Was this with my room?
01:24:13
Ryan
right he's ending it yeah he he ends it out of guilt and shame and perhaps even recognition that it's inappropriate for him as an attorney as like her boss but like yes totally totally totally but also she she was consenting i mean granted
01:24:14
Shauna (she/her)
Like, cause everyone just feels bad in that situation.
01:24:14
whiskey (any/all)
know
01:24:19
Shauna (she/her)
Nobody's feeling good. What are we like?
01:24:30
Shauna (she/her)
Fair point.
01:24:33
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:24:40
Ryan
That's what was wild about the first spanking scene is he just goes for it. Like he tells her to put her hands on the desk, which I guess, again, she does. And like, you know, I guess that to me, that's like a green flag. Like, let's get wild. If someone explicitly says like elbows and hands on the desk. But he spanks her without any warning or consent. And I think one of the things that I was I feel like needs to be have like a giant asterisk in the start of the film and like across the screen all the time is what Shauna was trying to get at. like There's no actual negotiation. There's no consent around what
01:25:25
Ryan
what they're participating in. And then until the very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very end, we don't see like real aftercare. like We see him give her some affirmation, which is clearly what she's going for.
01:25:35
whiskey (any/all)
Yes, yes.
01:25:40
Ryan
But like the depth of Dom's sub play that they get into with no aftercare, what the fuck do you mean? You just hit me five times, and then we just went back to our day and never addressed it.
01:25:53
Ryan
like For people who are not in this world, like aftercare is sort of like, I think recovery is the wrong word, but it's like the first one that's coming to mind.
01:26:02
whiskey (any/all)
That's that's a proper that I feel like that would be a good.
01:26:04
Shauna (she/her)
You've spent a lot of endorphins, you know.
01:26:06
Ryan
Yes.
01:26:06
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:26:07
Ryan
Yes, but it also becomes this moment where these dynamics can drop. So these are you know in a in a role play where someone it's boss and employee, you know you're not actually boss and employee.
01:26:23
Ryan
like those you You step out of that when the scene is done, whatever. But like to be a Dom, it requires a lot of energy and to be a sub requires a lot of like resilience and You have to be able to let go of those things to have a really fulfilling experience and
01:26:48
Ryan
Mm hmm.
01:26:49
whiskey (any/all)
that was definitely one of the big issues that I had with the movie.
01:26:54
whiskey (any/all)
Like like I said, some of it's a great area about the consent. and like she'd want you know She's into it, whatever, they don't talk about it.
01:27:00
Ryan
Mm hmm.
01:27:02
whiskey (any/all)
CNC, you still have to talk about stuff, even if you're doing CNC, whatever. but they never show aftercare and him cutting her off like that is going to send her straight into sub-drop. Like she goes straight into sub-drop. So it's like drop is when you're you're having that pleasure, you're enjoying yourself, but usually the next day, day or two, you're kind of just like melancholy for no particular reason. Cause like Shauna said, you've spent up a lot of those endorphins.
01:27:32
whiskey (any/all)
you're exhausted, especially if it's a physical scene, like you're coming down from the high of that. So he just completely cuts her off and then she experienced the sub drop. So that's why it is getting more and more intense than she is trying to get his attention in more and more kind of outlandish ways because she is not getting that hit of dopamine back. She's not getting that input. So she has nowhere to express it, right?
01:27:56
Ryan
and like reaffirmation. So kind of what we were talking about earlier with like pushing that line, even in, you know, humiliation scenes or whatever, like there are just some lines for people. Like don't comment on the shape of my body, for example. But that might be a more blurry line, you know, for some particular parts of a person's body. But like,
01:28:25
Ryan
If someone steps over that line in dom-sub relationships, like it requires so much trust in each other to have, we're talking about really fulfilling like you know dynamics. We're not talking about like you called daddy someone once when they were fucking you. like We're talking about like you know actual agreed upon dynamics. There's so much trust and care you could call someone the most disgusting words in the world and still Provide the appropriate care for them and they are perhaps an even stronger human being but if you cross that line and you don't do the aftercare like Subdrop is a an expression that I just learned but I literally was like I thought she was gonna start self-harming again like
01:29:14
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:29:15
Ryan
This was a replacement behavior for her in a lot of ways. And I was like, oh shit, am I going to have to like watch Maggie Gyllenhaal cut again? Like I don't want to do that. I don't. So that, that was something that like, again, it's not to say if you don't provide proper aftercare, someone's going to like hurt themselves.
01:29:31
Ryan
But like in this movie, in this dynamic, that immediate cutoff, it's just, I can't imagine. I felt so bad for her.
01:29:42
Ryan
I felt so bad for her.
01:29:42
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, because because like as much as she had a sub drop, he could potentially have had top drop, which is to say like people drop all the time, because you're expending that energy you're giving so much of yourself your
01:29:48
Ryan
Yeah. Yep.
01:29:54
whiskey (any/all)
Like I said, even if it is just for funsies and it's just physical, you're still physically exerting yourself and playing with power dynamics or group dynamics, whatever.
01:30:05
whiskey (any/all)
So like he could be experiencing the top drop, which would might explain why he was feeling that shame and guilt and why he cut it off.
01:30:07
Ryan
Yep.
01:30:11
whiskey (any/all)
That actually is potentially a explanation for that too.
01:30:16
Ryan
Yeah.
01:30:17
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:30:17
Ryan
And what we also see her try to go back to just like normal life. Like she goes back to the boring dude that she was, she tried to get her, her dude to slap spank her.
01:30:29
Shauna (she/her)
How is she still with him like the whole time?
01:30:32
whiskey (any/all)
She was still with him.
01:30:32
Ryan
Yeah. Yeah.
01:30:35
Shauna (she/her)
Like, and I was like, yeah, like between like trying to get him to do things and like you're like, and jimmy you i and is it really hurting you? Like, or try to find like weirdos on Craigslist, which like I was like, gosh, what a dating and modernity.
01:30:45
Ryan
Poor thing. He didn't stand a chance.
01:30:48
whiskey (any/all)
any Yeah, the ads.
01:30:52
Shauna (she/her)
Like you were really like, like Babe Ruth calling your shot for the future there. All right.
01:30:57
Ryan
Yeah, yeah.
01:30:57
Shauna (she/her)
Like. But if it is so the reality of trying to find people in a way like that because it is a crapshoot at best and often,
01:30:59
whiskey (any/all)
Hmm.
01:31:12
Ryan
and When we're talking about you know like kind of diving into the intersections, you know this is a movie about a straight passing, white passing couple and cis passing. We don't know any of the dynamics around how they identify because they never get into it, but you know based on what we're given,
01:31:34
Ryan
there's even more when you incorporate race and gender and like all these other, so, you know, the most vulnerable people who don't get to be able to play safely with someone and explore those dynamics, who goes looking for that in unsafe places like Craigslist, like there is that I think
01:31:53
Shauna (she/her)
Mm hmm.
01:31:58
Ryan
that there's a ah ah silliness to it, but again, like, please, you know, for people that, I don't think anyone's listening to this, that is either A, not old enough to know not to go searching on Craigslist, or B, a slut, but like, you know, you you also have to think so, they paint this picture of like, ha ha, it's just a bunch of weirdos, like, ha ha, no one it nothing bad happens, but like, bad shit really could happen, like,
01:32:26
Ryan
And so we get into the end of the movie where she bails on ah Peter and runs away from him while trying on a wedding dress and goes into a three-day hunger strike before he finally tells her that, I mean, he doesn't actually say I love you, but he picks her up.
01:32:42
whiskey (any/all)
It
01:32:46
Shauna (she/her)
Like it took three days like come on come on guy.
01:32:48
Ryan
Yeah.
01:32:48
whiskey (any/all)
took three days.
01:32:49
Shauna (she/her)
What are you doing here?
01:32:50
Ryan
Yeah.
01:32:51
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:32:51
Shauna (she/her)
like really left after the first like 12 hours of her showing her commitment I'd be like okay if you if even 12 like like that's a lot like that is where yeah like like yeah like
01:32:51
Ryan
but let's talk about Let's talk about the three days.
01:33:02
Ryan
I don't have the attention span for three. What do you mean you sat and waited for me for three hours? the That's wild. I forgot about you. If I had gone for that long, I straight up forgot. This is no longer part of the scene.
01:33:18
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:33:21
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, homie left her for a three day weekend. And it's just like, fine. She's like, yeah, absolutely.
01:33:28
Ryan
Yeah.
01:33:29
whiskey (any/all)
I'll still do this with you.
01:33:31
Ryan
Her pissing herself wasn't enough.
01:33:32
whiskey (any/all)
And that it
01:33:34
Ryan
Missed herself. She pissed herself, guy.
01:33:37
Shauna (she/her)
Sure did.
01:33:37
Ryan
She pissed herself.
01:33:38
Shauna (she/her)
I hope you're cleaning that dress. Like, it was like, geez.
01:33:41
Ryan
Okay. yeay
01:33:42
Shauna (she/her)
Isn't that the important thing here right now, really, that you get your dress cleaned? And she's like, I'm not moving. Like, yeah, but the dress, like, okay.
01:33:49
Ryan
so So... So a lot of this, the movie was like, you know, exaggerated and kind of but played out. I don't know the right word, but like, but then it gets into this part where like she goes on what people think is a hunger strike.
01:34:04
Ryan
and then like her family starts showing up and they're all you know like hanging out in what I think is the waiting room of this law office like that's when it took a turn from like is this going into like is this gonna become like a fucking Tim Burton movie where they're all ghosts or something why is everyone hanging out here they were doing it was the friends we make along the way
01:34:13
Shauna (she/her)
What a nightmare.
01:34:20
Shauna (she/her)
like Yeah, they were dead the whole time. like butly Yeah. Like, but like, I was like, cause honestly, before the hunger strike seat, I was like, Oh wow.
01:34:32
Shauna (she/her)
She finally is like this agency and is like choosing to enter into it willingly. It was like the note I made. And then I was like, dot, dot, dot. And then does a weird hunger strike. Fucking odd.
01:34:43
Shauna (she/her)
And I just like, it was, a it was, why is this the decision the movie?
01:34:43
Ryan
Yeah.
01:34:47
Shauna (she/her)
Because why was that the decision?
01:34:48
Ryan
Right.
01:34:49
Shauna (she/her)
Why was letting her go on for three days? Why was doing a hunger strike in the first place for more than the hour or six like I think six hours if you're like wow I'm really gonna show this guy but like after like six hours I'd be like shit he ain't coming back I'm going wow I'm an idiot this sucks yeah like right
01:35:01
Ryan
It's like I personally, six. I'm stupid, yeah. of it It is, you know, from a storytelling perspective though, it is the aftercare that they show is a really great payoff for like, she waits for three days for him with no even recognition that she is still there. And then he shows up with what I think is either a smoothie or a chocolate shake. And I hope it was a smoothie. Cause if the first thing you made after three days was a chocolate shake, bitch, your tummy is going to hurt.
01:35:41
Ryan
your Your hunger strike is the least of your worries, but...
01:35:41
whiskey (any/all)
this
01:35:41
Shauna (she/her)
I mean, a whole lot of fruit is probably not a great answer either, if we're being honest with each other.
01:35:46
Ryan
Great point!
01:35:47
whiskey (any/all)
No, no.
01:35:48
Ryan
Great point!
01:35:48
Shauna (she/her)
Like, quiet.
01:35:49
Ryan
Let's start with a neutral grain bar. Something.
01:35:51
Shauna (she/her)
You know, just turn her off with a little...
01:35:52
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, let's start with like crackers.
01:35:54
Ryan
Yeah, a piece of bread.
01:35:54
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:35:56
Shauna (she/her)
but
01:35:57
Ryan
Bad aftercare, start to finish.
01:35:59
Ryan
Until we see this scene where she is in this like gort, so he picks her up and carries her, you know, in this wedding dress back to his fuck pad.
01:36:12
Ryan
Like that's attached to his office, like upstairs. Which is presumably, like they don't show it if it's his home, but they do for the first time show that he like opens the door and just goes upstairs.
01:36:24
Ryan
And no, but we see his place because she shows up at his house.
01:36:27
whiskey (any/all)
Right.
01:36:27
Ryan
So it's different. This is his fuckpad on the second floor of, you know, Mr.
01:36:29
whiskey (any/all)
Mm hmm.
01:36:34
Ryan
Earl Grey Esquire.
01:36:37
Shauna (she/her)
Well I mean he has had multiple submissives so obviously the fuckpad kinda makes sense and Service top, like...
01:36:37
Ryan
Edward.
01:36:40
Ryan
Yeah, exactly. He does fuck that.
01:36:41
whiskey (any/all)
yeah, yeah.
01:36:41
Ryan
I think the same fuck that.
01:36:42
whiskey (any/all)
yeah
01:36:43
Ryan
But they show this like gorgeous sumptuous bath and he's just like playing with her hair and like washing her hair, which is so intimate.
01:36:54
whiskey (any/all)
Mm hmm.
01:36:55
Ryan
like Baby, that is good aftercare. But that's...
01:36:59
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:37:01
Ryan
but like that's like Again, are we gonna talk about the fact that she pissed herself?
Critique and Media Reflections
01:37:07
Ryan
Did she shit herself?
01:37:10
whiskey (any/all)
I'm assuming so, yeah.
01:37:11
Ryan
And you're just like, first of all, first of all, maybe that's why he's bathing her. It's not aftercare.
01:37:17
Shauna (she/her)
You're right.
01:37:17
Ryan
She's herself and she's hungry. She can't wash herself, like.
01:37:20
Shauna (she/her)
right I'm assuming there was an off-camera shower before the bath, actually.
01:37:23
whiskey (any/all)
miracle Yeah.
01:37:24
Shauna (she/her)
is the Maybe it's a shower bath shower situation.
01:37:28
Ryan
Yes, yes, yes.
01:37:29
Shauna (she/her)
I could see that.
01:37:29
whiskey (any/all)
Nah, he just took her out back and hosed her down. He's just like, ugh, just...
01:37:33
Shauna (she/her)
And like, oh.
01:37:35
Ryan
Ass first.
01:37:37
Shauna (she/her)
god And like, but like the ending was like really sweet then like, and I was just like, you know, and I think the whole movie is really this blend on the intersection between play and life and how, you know, and in many, ways and how it was unhealthy.
01:37:41
Ryan
Yes.
01:37:41
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:37:48
Ryan
Mm-hmm.
01:37:52
Shauna (she/her)
The way that they intersected with each other was, was ultimately unhealthy. It was in a power dynamic that was inherently, you know, liable for abuse.
01:38:01
Ryan
Uneven to begin with.
01:38:01
Shauna (she/her)
And. Yeah, yeah and yeah it's it it was a extreme power dynamic because I feel like she is so she has so little and he has so much and I think that's really, and and then there's an employer-employee relationship on top of that.
01:38:05
whiskey (any/all)
i want to keep
01:38:16
Shauna (she/her)
you know Gosh, like honestly, like you know and speaking of, it made me think of, I don't know if you read the Neil Gaiman article, but like a very
01:38:18
Ryan
Yeah.
01:38:22
whiskey (any/all)
ever Yes.
01:38:27
Shauna (she/her)
and similar dynamic, like a, a much, it was not that, but it was not as far from it as it should have been. You know, and that's a whole nother story.
01:38:34
whiskey (any/all)
No.
01:38:35
Shauna (she/her)
I had a conversation topic of the similarities between Neil Gaiman and Joss Whedon.
01:38:41
Ryan
Oh man.
01:38:42
Shauna (she/her)
And honestly, she you know, James Spader of this kind of like, feministy, like, you know, kind of soft, guy who loves taking control over powerful women, you know, and I think that like, especially like in the Neil Gaiman, Joss Whedon, I think there's something to that because like, I think they really do believe in their feminism, but also, that's exactly what makes it so intoxicating to then knock those powerful women down.
01:39:08
Shauna (she/her)
But that's a conversation for another day.
01:39:09
Ryan
Yeah.
01:39:10
Shauna (she/her)
But I just wanted I just wanted to put that thought that I had had in the lead up to this, and in weeks of events.
01:39:16
Ryan
Yeah.
01:39:17
Shauna (she/her)
kind of got blown over by the election. But like, that was like a thought like, yeah, i bet yeah that assset I bet that fucking asshole feels pretty grazed like, wow, everyone forgot about me.
01:39:19
Ryan
Sure, sure.
01:39:26
Shauna (she/her)
Wait for the stand in season two coming out of Netflix. Yeah, like anyways, but yeah, sweet.
01:39:27
Ryan
Yeah, right, yeah.
01:39:30
Ryan
Yeah.
01:39:32
Shauna (she/her)
But then they get this any moving back, they get this really great in where they talk about their feelings and what they want and communicate their needs and wants and you know are able to fulfill with each other, find the beauty in routine, and find the peace and calm, the safety.
01:39:48
Ryan
Yes. Safety in each other. He finally...
01:39:51
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:39:52
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah, because those routines are still present, but they're different and healthier now.
01:39:54
Ryan
Yes. And he finally gets to... but I don't know, like, he finally gets to end his scene of being the Dom. Like, I would, are again, kind of what, you know, we were talking about earlier with what he's experiencing after these things.
01:40:10
Ryan
If he's not taking care of himself too, like, no wonder you're so, like you said, no wonder you're so fucked up about this. Like, no wonder you feel so much shame because you don't, you're not a person. You are a fucking sex object.
01:40:22
Ryan
And that can be really demoralizing. but the thing that i thought was really really interesting not interesting just it was like a to me it was a really obvious choice but you know as the movie ends you know she kisses him goodbye as he goes to work and she's sitting on the front porch looking getting really cozy and he drives away in waves and there's kids riding their bikes and families walking around and it's like very to me it was very clearly like it be your own neighbors sometimes that you don't know what the fuck is going on behind those doors like
01:40:54
Ryan
that kind of gave me this feeling of them being like, hey suburbia, like it's one, it's okay for you to do these things. Look at how normal they look, you know, from this snapshot, but also look at all these other normal people that don't know what big freaks they are, these big, sexy, slutty little freaks.
01:41:11
Ryan
It reminded me of the If You Seek Amy video by Britney Spears, where if you watch, go watch that big music video again in case you're not immediately remembering, but it's like the inside of her
01:41:15
whiskey (any/all)
Oh.
01:41:21
Shauna (she/her)
Okay.
01:41:24
Ryan
like inside this house, she's, you know, there's like sex parties going on and people are in bath. And it's like, it's just very clearly a fuck pad to call back. And then she steps out during the the bridge, she like, you know, starts putting her hair up and putting on this like very June cleaver sort of fifties housewife thing. And then she steps out with her husband and her two little boys and she's holding this little pie. And it is very much so like everybody's Everybody's a closet freak.
01:41:55
Ryan
You just gotta figure out where it is.
01:41:57
Ryan
So, with, yes, what thoughts, we agree that it's ah ah it's a good, a decent introduction to what this could look like in film.
01:41:58
Shauna (she/her)
Well, on that wonderful note.
01:42:12
Ryan
We didn't talk about this beforehand. Are there any like recommendations for people if you want us like either see it in film or, you know, read about it. Do you have any recommendations for folks?
01:42:25
whiskey (any/all)
for kink specifically, um um not not really, just because they're so, it's like, I i recommend people do the baseline.
01:42:31
Ryan
So varied.
01:42:37
whiskey (any/all)
I recommend people read like Sleeping Beauty series. um um I recommend people watch this movie, Fifty Shades, like any anything that you can watch about kink, but watch it with a critical lens.
01:42:51
whiskey (any/all)
And if you happen to know any kind of people in your life, talk to them about it, because a lot of times, again, these are imperfect narratives. They're things that come with caveats. I also would encourage you to, I'll send you all some links, but there's a lot of kink speakers and educators that I'd probably recommend people follow, rather than like trying to get it from media, because a lot of this is living, breathing history.
01:43:15
whiskey (any/all)
So I'll just go ahead and send you guys a couple links so that way you can actually put it on the show notes so people can click through. Because a lot of it, a lot of it's actually the people that are living it now rather than media.
01:43:25
Shauna (she/her)
That'll be great.
01:43:30
whiskey (any/all)
A lot of the media about kink and specific isn't perfect. Now, if you ask me about Naminogamy, I could give you a couple of those.
01:43:36
Ryan
My actual, I was gonna say yes or no on the ethical slut.
01:43:37
whiskey (any/all)
The kink is just such.
01:43:41
Ryan
What are your thoughts?
01:43:42
whiskey (any/all)
yes, again, these are foundational texts. And I kind of feel the same way about like, queer representation in media, like, for example, Rocky Horror.
01:43:49
Ryan
Yeah.
01:43:49
whiskey (any/all)
I'm like, as a story, that movie sucks.
01:43:52
Ryan
so It's so bad.
01:43:52
whiskey (any/all)
But like, it, and I and personally, my personal opinion, I think that Little Shop of Horrors should be the movie musical that queer people go to midnight showings and sing the songs, because the songs are objectively better.
01:43:54
Ryan
It's so bad.
01:44:05
whiskey (any/all)
It's actually a T for T narrative. I can go on. Anyway, so I, think
01:44:08
Ryan
Tea for tea narrative, huh?
01:44:11
Shauna (she/her)
Absolutely.
01:44:11
whiskey (any/all)
Listen, yeah, they're...
01:44:11
Shauna (she/her)
Oh, they have such big T for T energy. No, 100%.
01:44:14
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, yeah, no, they're both T for T.
01:44:14
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
01:44:16
whiskey (any/all)
If you go back and watch it and...
01:44:17
Ryan
Yeah, I never really thought, I never really looked at it from that lens. They're definitely tea for tea, big time.
01:44:22
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, big time.
01:44:22
Ryan
That, that fucking high ass boy, like that, like, that high femme, like, dolled up big bitch energy obsessed.
01:44:33
whiskey (any/all)
Yep, and he's just a guy.
01:44:34
Ryan
Audrey's one of my favorite characters. And he's just a dude!
01:44:36
whiskey (any/all)
like he's just a guy.
01:44:38
Ryan
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. My favorite meme sets.
01:44:41
whiskey (any/all)
e Yes, 100%. But yes, for yes, ethical slut, poly secure more than two sex at dawn, if you're looking for books about Naminography specifically.
01:44:54
whiskey (any/all)
and, uh, I honestly would, um, recommend, uh, there's a show called couples therapy. It's on Paramount. I think it's season three. They have a non-monogamous couple on there. It's a throuple. Watch that sheet because it is messed, it's tore up from the floor up, but it does have a really powerful narrative about dealing with nomenogamy in a psychiatry setting.
01:45:20
whiskey (any/all)
So I highly recommend just watch the whole show couples therapy, especially if you're in a relationship or are fascinated about dating, sociology, anything like that. It is a fascinating show.
01:45:28
Shauna (she/her)
Hm.
01:45:28
whiskey (any/all)
it.
01:45:30
Ryan
that's so i thought it was something else there's a podcast called where should we begin want to say her name is astair parelle but she is a couples therapist and every episode starts with
01:45:46
Ryan
the voicemail that's left for her about like what's happening with the couple and then the the actual episode is their first session with her. like Obviously they consent to it all.
01:45:56
Ryan
it was I listen to it a lot during you know some tumultuous relationship periods and it's really, really cool. it's I would also recommend that.
01:46:04
Shauna (she/her)
and
01:46:06
whiskey (any/all)
Oh, there's one, what is the name of her show? There's one creator that I do recommend that you follow. Her name is Sunny Megatron. She has a YouTube. So S-U-N-N-Y-M a-E-G-A-T-R-O-N. I recommend following her. She's a sexologist and an educator. She has a lot of really great articles about BDSM and key and normalizing it.
01:46:35
whiskey (any/all)
And I'd also, if you're on YouTube, I also recommend What's the Safe Word? W-A-T-T-S, What's the Safe Word? They are two, one is genderqueer, another is a cis gay man, but they are in a Don sub dynamic. And they talk a lot about queer history. They talk about sex toys, BDSM. They live in San Francisco, so they do Folsom of fair, all kinds of stuff. Really great resource there too.
01:47:04
Ryan
Have you ever been to Folsom?
01:47:06
whiskey (any/all)
No, but I really wanna go.
01:47:07
Ryan
I want to go so bad.
01:47:09
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:47:09
Ryan
I don't, like, I feel confident in my ability to navigate it, but sometimes, like, just knowing how deep and broad the kink community is, I know that there would be some shit that would be like, oh my god, in the street!
01:47:21
whiskey (any/all)
i
01:47:24
Shauna (she/her)
Okay, but see, I feel like I would like the idea of going to Folsom more than going, because in practice, I think it would just be so cis guy and cis gay guy heavy.
01:47:31
Ryan
yeah Yes.
01:47:37
whiskey (any/all)
Oh, it's not. It's not.
01:47:38
Shauna (she/her)
Well, and like, maybe that's just the, because, okay, and this is maybe just my experience that I feel like there's such a gender divide in the CNN community where it basically is
01:47:38
Ryan
Interesting.
01:47:47
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:47:50
Shauna (she/her)
gay men, and especially cis gay men over here, and then everybody else over here.
01:47:56
Shauna (she/her)
And I think that's, fat with like then like the like straight people kind of like in here, but like still like closer here than there, but but it's just an interest, but the least especially in terms of queer people in Canc.
01:47:56
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:47:57
whiskey (any/all)
No, it could be like...
01:48:09
Shauna (she/her)
I find it so fascinating that their play spaces and communal spaces are so disparate. and i feel like it's one of the few times like so many like every most gay bars are just everybody goes but kink spaces aren't that way in practice and i wonder like you know like you mentioned claw which again is very you know
01:48:22
Ryan
mar Yeah.
01:48:31
Shauna (she/her)
cis, gay, man-heavy, they absolutely are.
01:48:31
Ryan
They're trying to be more...
01:48:33
Ryan
Yeah.
01:48:34
Shauna (she/her)
And no and there's these efforts absolutely are existing, and people are aware of it, and they're aware of how, again, how white it is and how male it is, and all of those things, right?
01:48:34
Ryan
Yep.
01:48:37
Ryan
Yep.
01:48:41
Ryan
Yet and still, it is what it is.
01:48:44
Shauna (she/her)
And those are, but that even with those efforts, it doesn't change the inherent fact that, you know, and again, it's that double-edged sword of how do you change a space by being there? But then, You have to be there and you have to be often there alone and it can feel very alone.
01:48:55
Ryan
Yeah, then you have to be there.
01:48:55
whiskey (any/all)
You have to be there.
01:48:56
Ryan
Yeah.
01:48:59
Shauna (she/her)
And so that's, I think something that I know I felt in different spaces, like, and I'm sure is I'm not, but the yeah, but so that's, that's my personal interesting observation.
01:48:59
Ryan
Yeah.
01:49:00
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:49:04
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
01:49:10
Ryan
Totally. I see it.
01:49:11
whiskey (any/all)
But this is, this is why we do the work. This is why I personally do the work that I do because I see that there's that gap there, right? because especially kink and like non-monogamy, even nerd spaces too, right?
01:49:23
Ryan
Mm-hmm.
01:49:23
whiskey (any/all)
Like D and&D and stuff. Like these are microcosms of larger society, right?
01:49:28
Shauna (she/her)
You said kink and non-monogony.
01:49:28
whiskey (any/all)
So there's all...
01:49:29
Shauna (she/her)
The nerd was already.
01:49:31
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, no, that's a perfect circle.
01:49:32
Shauna (she/her)
you it
01:49:35
whiskey (any/all)
oh
01:49:35
Ryan
diagram is a circle.
01:49:38
whiskey (any/all)
But no, so these these are microcosms
01:49:39
Shauna (she/her)
lee love Everyone loves board games right in the middle.
01:49:42
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah, it's more games, it's just, i yeah.
01:49:42
Shauna (she/her)
like Yeah.
01:49:45
whiskey (any/all)
So these these are microcosms of like larger society, right? So there's inherently going to be more white people, there's inherently going to be more dudes, there's inherently going to be more cis people.
01:49:55
whiskey (any/all)
But i'm I'm finding, at least in my personal experience, like you're saying, like, I'm noticing that there is so much more effort to make things clearer and blacker.
01:50:06
whiskey (any/all)
and more accessible, especially for disabled folks, who a lot of people are getting older. We get disabled as we get older, like 70 something percent of us are probably gonna end up with some kind of disability.
01:50:17
whiskey (any/all)
So it's like we we have to accommodate people, we have to make space for people, we have to center people, because this is where a lot of this culture is coming from. It's coming from us, it's coming from people like us.
01:50:25
Ryan
Yeah.
01:50:28
whiskey (any/all)
So as much as it's, like I said, it can be like very white heavy, it can be very cis gay heavy, I bet you anything that there is a a queer community out there. If you're listening to this, I bet you anything there is a queer k community that is welcoming to you and wants you to be part of it desperately.
01:50:45
Ryan
Hey man, what a great fucking a way to wrap it up because at the end of at the end of the day, the thing that makes, and I'm not gonna like repeat everything you just said, but like even this tiny little episode is like, I am in community with two people in so many other ways outside of this too, that like,
01:51:06
whiskey (any/all)
yeah
01:51:06
Shauna (she/her)
that you didn't know were in community before this episode was happening even, which I think is such a cool...
01:51:09
Ryan
exactly, exactly. So,
01:51:13
Shauna (she/her)
like
01:51:14
Ryan
It just, the community is what's gonna save us. Community is all that's ever saved us. And it just so happens that sometimes that community means fucking your friends that you trust and are attracted to.
01:51:26
Ryan
And that's, i maybe that's, I'll make the viral clip. Go fuck your friends. Go fuck your friends.
01:51:31
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah.
Concluding Thoughts and Social Media
01:51:32
Ryan
Fuck your friends, it's great.
01:51:33
Shauna (she/her)
oh Yeah, fuck your friends.
01:51:33
Ryan
If you want to, you don't have to.
01:51:34
Shauna (she/her)
Wait, I mean, wait, which way?
01:51:35
Ryan
Fuck your friends. Right, right.
01:51:36
whiskey (any/all)
No.
01:51:36
Ryan
Fuck your friends.
01:51:38
Shauna (she/her)
Fuck your friends.
01:51:38
whiskey (any/all)
Fuck your friends.
01:51:38
Ryan
No. Yes, yes.
01:51:41
Shauna (she/her)
your friends.
01:51:42
Shauna (she/her)
Fuck your friends. Yeah, that's the...
01:51:44
Ryan
So the the ultimate question of real hot nerd shit, who is the hottest character in the secretary?
01:51:54
whiskey (any/all)
Ooh.
01:51:55
Ryan
Not a lot of choices, but...
01:52:02
Ryan
I know who mine is.
01:52:04
whiskey (any/all)
Who's yours? i Go ahead, singers.
01:52:06
Ryan
the the woman during the hunger strike and everyone is coming in trying to like intervene bring her food or whatever there's the one crunchy white woman that comes in and puts down like a bunch of books in front of her and one of them just says like feminism that she's the hottest that's my pick maybe
01:52:23
whiskey (any/all)
I would say if I had to choose, she's probably the hot one or that other blonde lady that he was really into. I think her name was Tricia.
01:52:30
Shauna (she/her)
Hmm.
01:52:30
whiskey (any/all)
I, the way that she stepped on that coat, I kind of want her to step on me like that.
01:52:34
Ryan
Oh, his ex!
01:52:35
Shauna (she/her)
Hmm.
01:52:36
Ryan
That was really hot.
01:52:37
Shauna (she/her)
Hmm.
01:52:37
whiskey (any/all)
and
01:52:38
Ryan
Shauna?
01:52:39
Shauna (she/her)
I mean, those are really great answers. I'm going to say of the main characters, I guess it's probably James Spader more so like, like I get it. Like I do get it.
01:52:50
Ryan
Yeah, I do get it.
01:52:50
Shauna (she/her)
I'm like, but. But also, you know, don't be such a jerk. Give after him.
01:52:57
Ryan
Right.
01:52:57
whiskey (any/all)
Yeah. Yeah.
01:52:58
Ryan
Yeah.
01:52:59
Shauna (she/her)
He figured it out, but I'm glad you don't want to be the girlfriend that causes him to figure it out. And unfortunately, Maggie Jilly and all had to be both.
01:53:05
Ryan
yeah
01:53:07
Shauna (she/her)
And so...
01:53:07
whiskey (any/all)
She had to be, it's a canon event, sometimes it's a canon event.
01:53:07
Ryan
Yep.
01:53:10
Shauna (she/her)
It is.
01:53:11
Shauna (she/her)
Yeah.
01:53:11
Ryan
Someone's going to have to take one for the team.
01:53:13
Ryan
And guess what? It's Maggie Gyllenhaal. It's always going to be Maggie Gyllenhaal. R.I.P. the original Rachel Dawes. Thanks so much to Whiskey for joining us on this fucking phenomenal episode.
01:53:27
Ryan
I can't wait to listen to it back. you want to drop your socials and then I'll make sure to add them if you're interested.
01:53:35
whiskey (any/all)
Yes, of course. So you can find me on Instagram. It is whiskey with an E dot FM. I have a blog. I will send you the link for that because I can't remember the link right now.
01:53:47
Ryan
Yup.
01:53:48
whiskey (any/all)
I'm also on TikTok. um um whiskey fo Yes, TikTok is back.
01:53:51
Ryan
Again, question mark, part two. Sorry. Sorry.
01:53:55
whiskey (any/all)
We're back.
01:53:55
Ryan
What?
01:53:55
Shauna (she/her)
with the coralline eyes like the egg genome.
01:53:55
whiskey (any/all)
I still have access.
01:53:57
Ryan
Now with American spies instead of Chinese ones.
01:54:00
whiskey (any/all)
ah
01:54:01
Ryan
I'm just going to cut you off.
01:54:01
whiskey (any/all)
And I'm also on Blue Sky. Oh no, no, you're good.
01:54:03
Ryan
Yeah, I cut you off when you set your handle.
01:54:06
whiskey (any/all)
I'm also on Blue Sky. Both of those are whiskey fox with three X's.
01:54:11
Ryan
OK, cool. All right. Thanks so much, everyone. We'll catch you next time.
01:54:16
whiskey (any/all)
Bye.
01:54:17
Shauna (she/her)
Bye.
01:54:18
Ryan
Bye.