Transcript
Ryan : Welcome to Real Hot Nerd Shorts, our next attempt at short form media. ah We are here to talk about the new Marvel limited series, Wonder Man with me, Ryan.
Shauna (she/her): Mishana.
Ryan : And that's it. We don't need anyone else. It's just the two of us. um So we're going to talk about the eight episode limited series of Wonder Man um that just dropped last week.
Ryan : We consumed it very quickly. And ah overall, Shauna, ah what letter grade would you give it? Just offer it.
Shauna (she/her): B+. I really liked it.
Ryan : Yeah. Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): It was just very good. Very enjoyable.
Ryan : Agreed. i would even argue an A minus. Like it's, if we're, I think I would set like WandaVision and Agatha all along as like sort of the bar for the best television that they have made thus far of live action. Oh, does she disagree?
Shauna (she/her): No, no, I think i was just trying to think of where I would put this because I think Ms.
Ryan : Okay.
Shauna (she/her): Marvel is just below it. But I think you're right.
Ryan : Ooh.
Shauna (she/her): Like, I think that's probably the or I think this might be the third best Marvel TV show and that's not a bad thing.
Ryan : Yeah. I'm,
Ryan : Agreed, especially when your competition is Agatha all along, Wonder Vision, and then it's followed up by Ms. Marvel, all of which I think are incredible properties that Marvel really needs to take a lesson around what they did right with it um and continue to try to replicate it instead of um you know trying new and different things. Although this was new and different. This was quite a different take on how they have done um their television. So let's kind of jump in.
Ryan : right away and start with just the two main characters. We have Simon Williams played by Yaya Abdul-Mateen and Trevor Slattery, who is played by someone who I'm pretty sure is like a ah ah well-known actor.
Shauna (she/her): It's, um, why am I blanking on his name?
Ryan : he
Ryan : Ben Kingsley, who we first met in 10 rings.
Shauna (she/her): Yes, thank you.
Ryan : Well, technically I think we met him in Iron Man three and then we got him in Shang-Chi in the 10 rings, which we've recently recorded.
Shauna (she/her): yeah We got to actually know him Shang-Chi. But no, and I think this really... i feel like that's the one thing I didn't like about this is I really think it just kind of pretended his plot in Shang-Chi didn't really happen.
Shauna (she/her): Like it didn't talk about him getting kidnapped and broken out of jail by... essentially the comic book accurate Mandarin for the role that he played as a fake terrorist in Iron Man 3.
Ryan : sure
Shauna (she/her): And it really dealt with that of everyone knows him from his role as the Mandarin.
Ryan : sure
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): And I thought that's something that I wish they had done better. But, you know, tying back into our podcast of the MCU really has not done a great job of incorporating this last phase. And I think that Wonder Man is proof of how they're just kind of, you know, moving past, moving along.
Ryan : Agreed.
Shauna (she/her): And, you know what?
Ryan : Because if you didn't see Shang-Chi, there's no way that you remember.
Shauna (she/her): Done.
Ryan : I mean, i i Iron Man 3 was so long ago. Like, I certainly would not have remembered the Mandarin. um And I definitely, you know, if you hadn't seen Shang-Chi, like, he's just kind of inconsequential.
Ryan : Which was, you know, as we talked about in our last episode, um really confusing when they were marketing it because they were leaning so heavy on Trevor Slattery. And, like... Even if you did remember him, the Mandarin from Iron Man 3, and you didn't see Shang-Chi, then you wouldn't know that he's Trevor Slattery. He would just be this new person that they're giving all this attention to.
Ryan : And so I would think that's probably like one of my biggest, like, okay, I wish they would have done a little bit better of incorporating Simon Williams in the advertisements, but ultimately I loved the two characters together. i loved that the focus was on their relationship and how Simon came to trust him and then was betrayed by him. um and how Trevor has this like lovely kind of arc of,
Ryan : I don't know. It seemed like he was doing whatever it takes being kind of selfish in, in saying like, no, I'm not going back to prison. I'll, I'll, he kind of like jumps at the chance to be an asset for the department of damage control.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): And I get it. Like, at the end of the day, he wasn't doing it to be an asshole.
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): He was doing it and he clearly we wasn't.
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): You could tell like he's like, well, I have no other choice because.
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): And you know what? I guess that's fair, but also, you know.
Ryan : Yeah. Yeah. And um I think.
Shauna (she/her): even as he tries to be disobedient, as he works for Stewie from Succession, who has showed up in many things, but I'll be honest, I have no idea what his name is other than another role he played, which I think is kind of a problem in how Marvel has been doing and highlighting these characters who are, again, showing up multiple times.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Why don't we know this agent's name?
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): Because he should have as much of a role as Elaine Bennis' character, who's another person whose name I can't think of. So...
Ryan : um valor Valeria Valeria Allegra de Fontaine Yes Uh huh
Shauna (she/her): Maybe that's just it. That.
Shauna (she/her): That's it. Say thank you. I knew you'd know.
Ryan : So um one of the things that we talked about really liking in terms of these characters. So obviously Simon is a struggling actor and Trevor prior to being the Mandarin was kind of an established actor. um But he coaches him, mentors him throughout, and we get to see how a mentor can really positively impact someone like He really does like he loosens up.
Ryan : He he finds his groove as an actor with the support of Trevor.
Shauna (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : um But he's clearly extremely talented, as we've seen throughout. It's just he needed to get out of his head. um But one of the things I really liked...
Shauna (she/her): meet
Ryan : ah Go ahead, please.
Shauna (she/her): Well, I mean, we've both watched a lot of Drag Race. And what is the one thing that will get a queen eliminated? Not showing your real self. Not showing enough of you in who you are.
Shauna (she/her): And that is the problem that Simon had, is that he wasn't showing the real him because he felt he couldn't. He had to stay very close.
Ryan : He was being vulnerable on the runway.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, he was a closeted trans woman on Drag Race. That is really the role that but he played. And so...
Ryan : um
Shauna (she/her): Once he started living his truth, he shined and we got to be Wonder Man.
Ryan : Exactly.
Ryan : So that, it you know, speaking of how, um you know, the... inclusion of identities and culture, this was also another really well done sort of spotlight on a specific culture um for Simon and his background um as Haitian Creole and like his the family structure, the role of the mom, his father, brother.
Ryan : his brother, which is like also a really specific dynamic within, yeah i think a lot of cultures, but especially cultures that kind of rely on this masculine man-ness as the provider type deal.
Shauna (she/her): Well,
Ryan : Like his brother has got it all together. And then he also still kind of believes when it's a little, but we're not going to go deep into that. It's a really beautiful dynamic.
Shauna (she/her): And also the way I love the way they use the language, which is, i thought, really interesting the way when he's talking to his mom on the phone, when they're trying to talk about his secret and his powers.
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): That's when she starts switching into the Haitian Creole language in a way that I thought was really in which makes a lot of sense, because, of course, because, you know, that they all know the government's kind of watching him.
Ryan : Yes. Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): And, you know, they know that, you know, your phone's probably being tapped, et cetera, et cetera.
Ryan : Totally.
Shauna (she/her): So I thought that was a really good touch of how they could kind of maintain that kind of familial closeness that everybody kind of knows the secret, but nobody talks about it.
Shauna (she/her): And I thought...
Ryan : Yeah, which also makes me think about the other note that we made um about Ms. Marvel. And i I think that is what makes the characters, we get a 360 of who the character is.
Ryan : Like we get their relationship to their parent or parents. We get the relationship to their sibling. And then you have this sort of like external other with Trevor in this instance. But in Ms.
Shauna (she/her): And the community too.
Ryan : Marvel, yes, with Ms. Marvel, we get the beautiful inclusion of her Pakistani family and her Muslim community.
Shauna (she/her): The
Ryan : And there's all these layers, which, again, I think also is something to to touch on with the sort of larger metaphor. But like, you know, another person who belongs to a a marginalized group being overly policed.
Ryan : um However, the the Department of Damage Control is also in Ms. Marvel. um And so I do. I think there's.
Shauna (she/her): same actor.
Ryan : Same actor who we don't know. And I remember when we, when I started watching, I was like, that guy looks so familiar. Am I supposed to remember him? Uh, which again, C above re, uh, Marvel, not doing a great job of establishing these characters, but, um,
Ryan : Yeah, so we have this like lovely sort of representation of his family. um His mom is just a breakout star, just like ah ah Kamala's ah parents are the breakout stars of her show and then the the movie The Marvels.
Shauna (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : um But we mentioned Department of Damage Control, which kind of helps us segue into the next quick point that we want to touch on is the plot. So the overall response that a lot of people have had is this is not your typical superhero origin story. Like it is not about how he got his powers. It is not about, you know, his first time in the costume, although we do see him in a costume for the first time. It's just about him as an actor. managing this additional stress of being a um ah a superpowered person in a time when superpowered people are now being policed and and monitored in ah a new and different way.
Shauna (she/her): Absolutely. And I think for me, the one part that I want to highlight is the way in which the story of Wonder Man, the 1970s movie that inspired Simon, very much mirrors the story of the odd couple bromance that Simon and Trevor have.
Ryan : h
Shauna (she/her): And all of the plot points, the Barnaby's betrayal, the, his, my, my only friend, all of those kind of plot points, whenever they show a snippet of the movie, like going back and rewatching it, you can see the way those beats play out in Wonder Man, the Marvel show.
Ryan : yeah
Shauna (she/her): And I thought that was a really interesting, I love that the kind of meta storytelling aspect.
Ryan : yeah
Shauna (she/her): that foreshadowing where you don't know unless you're looking for it. I think they did that really well, and I think that's one of the reasons why it was such a successful show.
Ryan : Agreed. I wish I had, I've never seen that Midnight Cowboy movie that is referenced a lot that they start, um, that's like their first time that they see each other. But as I understand, it is also sort of similar, similar plot, at least of John Voight and Dustin Hoffman and John Voight's like the older actor that takes Dustin Hoffman under his wing or something, but it doesn't really matter.
Shauna (she/her): Interesting.
Ryan : Um, So, yeah, we, you know, we get to see him pull out all the stops to try to get this part um as a person who is actively job seeking, watching him get really creative, like when he calls the the casting agent and pretends to be someone else. And he's like, oh, she's going to be so upset. Like, can you just do like, you know, I don't know what we're going to do, blah, blah, blah. And i just thought that that was genius. And that's what it feels like trying to find a job right now is like.
Ryan : who can I call and pretend I'm someone else to get me a job? um But yeah, so ah we get to see his struggle as a, as a, as a working actor. Trevor makes a lot of really great points of like the work of an actor is, is experiencing life, not finding a job, which I thought was a, um an interesting, ah you know, way to kind of include that support for him as an actor who's struggling. Yeah.
Ryan : But the one thing that I think is probably the most important part of the plot, other than introducing this new superpower character, is the Department of Damage Control.
Ryan : So, you know, we've talked about it a couple of times, but they are essentially this government entity that is responsible for monitoring and tracking and controlling superpowered people. We saw them in Spider-Man No Way Home.
Ryan : um We saw them in Ms. Marvel. And I think we even saw them in the first Spider-Man with the with the Falcon. Not Falcon. What's his name? Vulture. With the Vulture tech.
Ryan : um That's Department of Damage Control as well. And a lot of the... Online theories are that um the Department of Damage Control is likely going to be sort of the new mutant persecuting force um within the larger MCU.
Ryan : And...
Shauna (she/her): I love that idea.
Ryan : Yes. And what I thought was really interesting. And again, sometimes you just wish that people would watch these shows and like actually pick up on the fucking message. Like the fact that it's very clear that the Department of Damage Control has this privately owned prison and they're like, we just got to get people in there.
Ryan : So let's let's start.
Shauna (she/her): we have to justify this prison, so therefore we're going to over-police this population of super-powered individuals.
Ryan : I'm sorry.
Shauna (she/her): Oh my gosh.
Ryan : Like, there are people who watch this shit and they don't get it.
Shauna (she/her): Fascinating. Thank you.
Ryan : I'm like, what the fuck is... Which is always so, you know, kind of full circle. The the thought is the next step in... um ah the way that this ties in to ah Spider-Man brand new day, which I think is the next feature film is the department of damage control is going to be um pursuing Sadie Sink's character, which is allegedly either Jean Grey or um Rachel Summers question mark. We don't know.
Ryan : So.
Shauna (she/her): Well, and I think also playing into that, who are two characters that are potential new mutants?
Ryan : hmm.
Shauna (she/her): We have Ms. Marvel, who they reveal as having a mutated gene, and Wonder Man, who we don't know what his power story background is other than very powerful.
Ryan : Yes.
Ryan : Exactly.
Shauna (she/her): And so I think that you absolutely could see them, absolutely, you could see them kind of backdooring mutants into the MCU.
Ryan : And it showed up during puberty.
Shauna (she/her): And i could easily see that playing with damage calls. So I think that's a great point.
Ryan : Yeah, I'm hoping that that is kind of the through line. And, you know, i I was watching some other videos just to to kind of see if there were things that I missed. And um one thing that people kind of picked up was, you know, the Department of Damage Control and the doorman clause.
Ryan : um There's this actor, this character. It really doesn't matter.
Ryan : Anyways, a super-powered individual named Doorman ah accidentally kills Josh Gab, um which was also the fucking wildest.
Shauna (she/her): R.I.P. Which I did, I just read, i love the, Josh Gad agreed to do that on the sole, like, justification of he gets to play another role that isn't just playing himself, but if he gets to play a different role in the future, he would then do this.
Shauna (she/her): And so that is why they killed, like, Josh Gad is dead, but Josh Gad, the character will not be, but Josh
Ryan : interesting so josh gad will be back in adventures doomsday yeah
Shauna (she/her): at the actor, whatever, multiverses are weird.
Ryan : well yeah multiverses are weird um and i'm obsessed with like the new running meme thing of like so and so will be back and it will return in avengers doomsday Um, so yeah, the, the department of damage and control, or I'm sorry, the, the doorman clause, which said superpowered actors cannot participate in, in productions for whatever reason, they don't even really give a great reason.
Ryan : um other than the fact that Josh Gad died tragically. But um it's like, it's discriminatory. Like that's how people were born. a lot of times it's something they can't control. How are you going to cut entire groups of people out?
Ryan : So um some people think that this is going to also be like an opportunity community to include someone like She-Hulk because she's already on the West coast. But unfortunately Tatiana Maslany doesn't, doesn't want to participate with Disney.
Ryan : And that's a really fucking big bummer. Cause I loved her as She-Hulk loved her She-Hulk.
Shauna (she/her): Look, does she have a great point? Absolutely. Am I going to miss her as She-Hulk?
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): And probably does it mean that She-Hulk the character will not return?
Ryan : Yeah.
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, I think that's unfortunately...
Ryan : Yeah. is she Is she right and I wish more people would fucking do it? Yes. Am I kind of mad at her for doing it? Also yes. Two things can be true.
Shauna (she/her): Well, and it's funny because actually it's both it's both the fucking Hulks because both him both her and mark Ruffalo is likely not going to return either for the very same reason as a man of principle.
Ryan : exactly Right, Mark Ruffalo.
Ryan : I'm curious.
Shauna (she/her): And again, more power to these people.
Ryan : I'm very curious.
Shauna (she/her): and you know But frankly, the more stars that do that is how they're going to actually enact real change.
Ryan : pressure. um Yeah, so the the doorman clause and the explicit discrimination of people who are superpowered, um we we think that ah maybe Simon Williams is a mutant. It gives a lot of credence that he had his first sort of like incident when he was a young person, likely around the age of puberty, which if you are an X-Men fan, you know that that is kind of like when the mutant gene activates.
Shauna (she/her): Thank
Ryan : um So again, I do think that this might be a new, ah Simon Williams is a is a mutant entry into the MCU. um So yeah, that's, those are the big major talking points that, you know, we kind of laid out and we are trying to keep this one short um So we talked about the cast. We love Simon and Trevor. We talked about the plot. We loved that it was atypical. Was there anything about the plot that you didn't like?
Shauna (she/her): I wish it didn't all appear at once. I wish that it was recorded.
Ryan : Sure.
Shauna (she/her): I wish that they had put it in more of a week-to-week episode format. Because I think it really deserved to breathe.
Ryan : Sure.
Shauna (she/her): And, like, was I very happy to binge it? Yes. But I feel like it didn't give it everything it needed. And hopefully we see this character again. Hopefully we see...
Shauna (she/her): more of him getting to actually use his powers because that I think was one of my main critiques is that his powers were very under the surface it was very just hinted at up until the very end when he's yeah and you know like which again and I thought was such a fascinating I i really thought that whole plot of he's like no gotta roll you can't tell anybody and now I'm gonna pay you so much money that you're not gonna say anything
Ryan : He blew up a whole fucking building.
Ryan : Yeah.
Ryan : Genius. Genius. That was so, I loved the, the final scene where we see him breaking Trevor out of jail. And, um I was like really trying to follow. I was like, there's something with this guy that he's trying to, you know, like it, it was, it was a great turn to have him be using this, this guard to get into the department of damage control.
Shauna (she/her): you
Ryan : Um, But to your point, I do also think if it had been a week to week program and that was all that we got in terms of his powers, I would have been really pissed because, you know, at least with WandaVision, when it was week to week, it was it was slow. there There was a lot of room to breathe, but we got a full out.
Ryan : Scarlet Witch reveal and battle.
Shauna (she/her): you
Ryan : And I think if they had done a week to week for this, it would have, I think it needed to be, to me at least, it needed to be dropped all at once. Like it just, if they had waited for that to be the finale, people would have rioted.
Ryan : and not that they need to make decisions because of the fans or anything, but I do think it's worth noting that like there was no major.
Shauna (she/her): i mean, yes and no. If they're not making it for the fans, like who are they making it for?
Ryan : Sure.
Shauna (she/her): at the end of the day, like they should be making it.
Ryan : ah Yeah, totally.
Shauna (she/her): And I think that's just it is where I still feel they did not do enough justice for the show. like They felt like they needed to put it out. But I feel like in its promotion, in it's there's there's a lot that could have been done better, which doesn't take away from what the show is, which was, again, a very enjoyable show that I highly recommend.
Ryan : know
Shauna (she/her): I think that if you love movies and TV and acting and just that kind of general, the craft of it all, I think it really is a great story.
Ryan : Same. and i Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): And I really recommend it. Bad
Ryan : Yeah, if you like buddy comedies, if you like, you know, The Odd Couple.
Shauna (she/her): couple.
Ryan : Yeah, like it really, it has so many dynamics that are enjoyable.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : and But again, even as I'm thinking about it, so my my question that I'm going to circle back to is, sees do we want a season two or not? But the reason I'm saying that is because, oh my God, those look so good.
Shauna (she/her): I want one of those chamois peach rings is what I want, but they really did...
Ryan : The Samoy boys. I love a peach ring. But, yeah. but You know, the each of these shows always kind of feels like it's setting something up or it's setting something up for something bigger. So, like, Ms. Marvel is definitely going to be sort of at the forefront of the Young Avengers or whatever. And I would not be surprised if Wonder Man was the lead of the West Coast Avengers, which he is in the the comics. And so we don't need a season two for Wonder Man because...
Ryan : he will be explored more in a show like West Coast Avengers.
Shauna (she/her): Well, to the West Coast Avengers, is that what the Thunderbolts ultimately become?
Ryan : Oh, no, I don't think so. I think they will be, i think they'll become the Avengers. ah
Shauna (she/her): See, but i feel like but I feel like Sam Wilson, be.
Ryan : Oh.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah. his are going to be yeah
Ryan : Call on me, call. Call on me. So ah one of the things that I saw in some of the discourse around it was, um will this create, you know, sort of another, not the Sokovia Accords, but like the Mutant Registration Act?
Ryan : So what if...
Shauna (she/her): Hmm.
Ryan : Cap because Captain America, just like he did with Sokovia Accords, like as a man of principle would not sign the Sokovia Accords. I don't think that Cap, I don't think that, um, uh, Sam Wilson would sign the took the, the, the superhero registration act. So maybe the Thunderbolts as the government entity become the new Avengers. Sam does something else entirely Then we have Wonder Man, Vision, who we know is coming um with Vision Quest as the West Coast Avengers.
Ryan : And then Ms. Marvel, Kate Bishop, and and co.
Shauna (she/her): Kate Bishop.
Ryan : as the the young Avengers. So would would you want to see a season two or would you rather be in something else?
Shauna (she/her): I would rather it be something else. I think they said everything they needed to say in it.
Ryan : Exactly.
Shauna (she/her): And it's... I do appreciate that they can do that kind of standalone thing now. Like, that they can just be like, and here's like a little, like, what was it?
Ryan : Same.
Shauna (she/her): Six episodes? Eight episodes? Something?
Ryan : Eight episodes.
Shauna (she/her): Six to eight? Yeah.
Ryan : And I think I like that as like, it's not super overwhelming.
Shauna (she/her): know.
Ryan : You don't need to watch this show. Like, you know, with WandaVision, you kind of needed it. I mean, they didn't pay attention. They didn't do it any justice in Multiverse of Madness. So it's not like you needed to watch WandaVision for that to make sense.
Ryan : But like, I like these ideas that these shows don't have to be, you know, pre pre reading to see a movie and vice versa. Um, so I like the idea that it's just like in a bubble by itself and it's a nice little origin story. That's not an origin story because we don't need every superhero's origin story. Um, so yeah, I'm with you that I hope it is, um,
Ryan : baked into something else. So ah that is going to wrap our Real Hot Nerd short on Wonder Man. Follow us on Instagram at RealHotNerdPod. You can follow your hosts at Helen Pastels and at Intuitive Blurred on Blue Sky and Threads. And we will catch you next time.
Ryan : Bye, gang.
Shauna (she/her): Bye.
