Transcript
Ryan : Welcome to Real Hot Nerd Shit, a pop culture podcast where real hot nerds talk about real nerd shit. Real nerd shit. I'm your host, Ryan.
Shauna (she/her): And I'm your host, Shauna.
Ryan : And on this episode of Real Hot Nerd Shit, we'll be talking about Black Widow as we begin our rewatch of phase four.
Shauna (she/her): And we're excited that to well let's start off this phase 4 Rewatch with our special hot guest. Welcome, Zee.
Ryan : Hi, diva.
Z (she/they): Thank you for being here.
Shauna (she/her): There's a very clear note in our notes that says, Ryan, don't forget applause machine.
Ryan : Are you going to just fully put my shit on front street like that? Just.
Z (she/they): If she wasn't, I was going to.
Ryan : Yeah. i Okay, great. Great. You're both wretched cunts. Welcome, Z. So glad you are here. She's an actual listener.
Ryan : z gives me feedback.
Z (she/they): of Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes I give you feedback, but...
Ryan : Sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't mean that in like a Z tells me it's bad. i'm that was a This person listens and actually appreciates one of our six monthly listeners.
Z (she/they): No.
Shauna (she/her): books
Ryan : Shout out.
Z (she/they): I am.
Shauna (she/her): Dozens of us. Dozens.
Ryan : So, um yeah.
Z (she/they): Sometimes I'll just be playing podcast and then I'll wake up and Shauna or Ryan's voice is in my ear at like 4 a.m.
Shauna (she/her): and
Z (she/they): So that's really intimate.
Ryan : It's beautiful. um Which, you know, is at least it's nice things. Like, we probably aren't saying anything mean.
Z (she/they): Yeah. Quite.
Ryan : It's probably pretty affirming, I would assume.
Z (she/they): Quite.
Ryan : So um obviously you and I go way back from organizing days. We did some conference work together. um But one of the things that I think I was like the most surprised was I saw you presenting at some conference one time about the intersection of like pop culture and social or specifically comic books and social justice. And I was like, wait a second, bitch.
Ryan : How have we never explored this space? intersection of our interests. So my question, if a nerd is someone who is weirdly knowledgeable and passionate about something that people sometimes might think is uncool, but who gives a fuck?
Ryan : um What are you a nerd about?
Z (she/they): Oof. The list could go on The limit does not exist. um And part part of that I'd like to think is just my genuine interest in things, but part of it I also think is autism, which we appreciate. Thank you. Autism speaks and I am speaking.
Z (she/they): um
Ryan : Thanks, Acetaminophen.
Z (she/they): i would Thank you, acetaminophen. Had a lot of headaches as a kid. um There are so many different things. Like I thought back to that Galaxy Con that you just mentioned, and that was the only thing I can think about with that with with that conference specifically is Jodi Benson was there and I'm a huge Little Mermaid trainee.
Z (she/they): And I brought ah VHS and was like, again, a nerd at a con.
Shauna (she/her): Thank you.
Z (she/they): So just gushing at this like 50, 60 year old woman and mentioning how like, oh my God. And I talked about Ariel and the ah unanticipated trans representation. And that's when I saw that she handed me back the VHS and it said, God bless with a capital G.
Z (she/they): So don't meet your heroes, but also look great in the photo.
Ryan : Fucking heroes, man.
Z (she/they): So that's all that matters.
Ryan : Yeah. So, okay, so a little bit of, not necessarily Disney nerddom, but like, you're ocean.
Z (she/they): A little bit, a little bit of everything.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): If it's, if it's, if it's aquatic Pisces energy over here.
Shauna (she/her): there.
Ryan : you
Z (she/they): So the, the intersection of like witchy, ocean-y, any type of like allegory for transness or queerness, I'm like signed up for it and on the newsletter.
Z (she/they): and
Ryan : And you're a big, but in general, you're also like a big Marvel fan, like comic book world. Are you Marvel or DC? Like, do you care?
Z (she/they): See, ah typically I would just say like hardcore Marvel, but then with this latest batch of stuff that has been coming out of DC, like Creature Commandos is really fucking awesome.
Z (she/they): And pretty much just the James Gunn kiss on everything that's been coming out has been really cute.
Ryan : Mm-hmm.
Z (she/they): Like as corny as the new Superman is, I eat up corny. I love corny.
Ryan : yeah
Z (she/they): So
Ryan : Yes. Well, that's a perfect segue.
Shauna (she/her): It's corny, but it's earnest.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Yes. Yes. That's a perfect segue into our, like, let's catch up because it's been a minute. I didn't see Superman.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : It did take Shauna a million years to see Superman, but she got there.
Shauna (she/her): You know, and it's fair because like we've, you know, cause this is, there's been a big gap since the last time we recorded. And so it's kind of nice now that I like caught up on certain pop culture things like Superman and And how, not unlike DC, we now have our shit in order.
Shauna (she/her): Previously, we' were a little more scattershot. The Snyderverse, if you will. Now, we've got a plot.
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): We've got a plan. We know where we're going ahead with this podcast. We are the gun universe. And what a great entry with Superman.
Z (she/they): or, you
Ryan : the
Z (she/they): yeah mean
Ryan : Yes. Yes. um Superman was so fucking incredible. um
Shauna (she/her): So good.
Ryan : i don't I don't think anyone else had seen it but when we recorded for Fantastic Four, which I think was our last recording.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : um But Superman was the superhero film of the summer. Like, even with how much I enjoyed Fantastic Four, but I feel like now that um at least you have seen it, Shana and Z. It sounds like you've seen it too. Like, it's not even a comparison. Like Fantastic Four, it was the fine-tastic four. It was just okay.
Ryan : But Superman, yeah, you love that.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah. It was good enough.
Ryan : Yeah, it was good enough.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : It was fine-tastic. um But Superman was just, it was, it made me genuinely happy to be watching it like in a way that I haven't in um like I was just smiling the whole time even with Marvel properties that I love like you know there's this um an additional weight because I do have expectations like I do know the source material way more
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : i don't know shit about shit in the DC world, except for what has been shoved down our throats for the last 20 years.
Shauna (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : um But this being, I didn't even see the other Superman's when they came out. Like, I don't even know if I've seen all of the old ones. So like this one just through and through loved it. The metaphor of um the many metaphors throughout, but It didn't feel heavy handed.
Ryan : didn't feel, you know, obviously given that the world is on fire and there's some very easy comparisons, it didn't, you could pluck this out of 2025 and it would be a fantastic relatable plot regardless.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): yeah You could pluck it out of 2005, and I think that doesn't necessarily say anything good in some ways, but also like, you know, but but it's so true though, like but I think it shows just how those plots are, that you know looking back a decade, two decades from now, I think this movie is still going to stand up as a love letter to what superheroes can be, to this desire for peace, and again, like we were saying, earnestness, this genuine desire to help others, and
Ryan : Great.
Ryan : Mm-hmm.
Shauna (she/her): you know, this is where we can kind of get into some spoiler talk. So if you have not seen Superman, fast forward little bit, but the little, cause like I am a DC fan.
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): I feel little...
Shauna (she/her): Like that is a big thing for me is something that I have a lot of enjoyment and love for. So I love everything, be it the like edgy punk rock Cara Danvers version, which is like from my like underrated favorite cartoon, the superhero girls, which is like a great show that like,
Shauna (she/her): my kid watched but like also i enjoyed because it is done by the same um lauren faust who was the person who redid my little pony and like brought that into the new era she's the same person who did the superhero girls and so it's got a really you know tara strong another person who i you know never meet your heroes etc like well i mean she is but also is
Z (she/they): well. Yeah.
Ryan : Icon.
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : Oh, wait, no, not an icon.
Ryan : Yeah, like.
Shauna (she/her): very She's a modern woman Christian. child like she it's there's that It's that era of woman the end of the day.
Ryan : Moral superiority fucking respectability politics asked.
Shauna (she/her): But you know what, though? Not everybody not every celebrity's politics needs to be the politics that I look up to. Because at the end of the day I'm not going to... She's still an icon, and I don't need to necessarily... I'm not looking to her for guidance on the Middle East. It just is the way it is.
Ryan : Exactly.
Shauna (she/her): But anyways, I digress. But so Superman.
Ryan : Yeah, Z, what did you think about Superman?
Shauna (she/her): Oh yeah, like so bizarro. Ugh.
Ryan : Oh, yes. Okay, wait. So, Z, overall, what were your thoughts of Superman before we talk some of the cool spoilery things?
Shauna (she/her): yeah
Z (she/they): I think a lot of it was just the saturation of just how it was shot. I really enjoyed just how colorful it was. i feel like so much of like the Snyder version of things was just so drab and boring.
Ryan : Yes. Yes.
Z (she/they): And it's like, I have Batman vinyl that's just like goofy, fun noises from the TV show. And then you look at some of like, even back to Dark Knight, it's like, this is all just taking itself way too seriously.
Shauna (she/her): but
Z (she/they): And was weird.
Ryan : So seriously, he's dressed up as bad guys.
Z (she/they): Yeah, I really liked the the color saturation. I loved the dog. The dog was so much fun.
Ryan : Please, please.
Z (she/they): um Without spoiling and anything, the dog is so much fun.
Shauna (she/her): My
Ryan : yeah Yes, yes. Oh, and we're spoiling things. i Especially because
Z (she/they): Okay, great, great, great, great.
Shauna (she/her): dog was a monster and I love so much.
Z (she/they): Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Ryan : Yes, I, I did go to does the dog die.com. Like in the, like when I saw that crypto was going to actually be a part of the movie and not just like, you know, they showed him in the trailer and then we'll see him one more time because I literally said to my friends, I was like, if something happens to this dog, I'm out.
Ryan : And like, you don't want that. You don't want to see what I mean when I say I'm out, I'm out of control. I'm out of this building. I'm out of this life. You don't want to see it. um And so I will say, and actually this is another James Gunn thing.
Ryan : um They did a really good job of like crypto gets hurt. Crypto gets captured. um But it's like so brief. It doesn't like, it I don't even really think it shows the dog in distress, but the same thing was true in, um, uh,
Z (she/they): and
Ryan : most of Guardians of the Galaxy 3 where like there are some pretty graphic moments when you're like they are torturing these animals but they never show it and they just give you enough context to understand that these animals are being experiment experimented on.
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : um So I just think that that is something that James Gunn does really really well um and I didn't put that together until just now when I remembered would feel the same way about Guardians the Galaxy.
Z (she/they): I think there was, it was either New Rockstars or one of the 50 review channels that my husband i watched that said there were some test screenings where it did show a little bit more and it tested really poorly.
Z (she/they): So I'm grateful.
Ryan : yeah
Z (she/they): Thank you, fellow animal violence sensitive people for making sure that that didn't make it to the screen.
Ryan : Yes.
Ryan : Yes. So we also got, Shauna said, one of the big spoilers is it's very obvious that um the, what was his name? Ultraman? Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, that was what they called him.
Z (she/they): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ryan : Yeah. um he ends up in like the the negative zone or something and ah we kind of get a sense that he's going to come back as bizarro as like it it was 100% like my first thought oh that's gonna be bizarro I did love that uh oh
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, as soon as they showed a Superman clone, I was like, oh, okay, this is gonna go wrong. The fact that it already went wrong and he couldn't talk is already, like
Ryan : yeah
Shauna (she/her): No, no, no. This is...
Ryan : And we do we do also get the incredible ah messy drunk Supergirl, which ah Shauna can elaborate on, or or I'm not sure if you're super familiar, Z, but I did not know that that was a um sort of like a a version of Kyra that exists in the comics.
Z (she/they): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : And so when she said, thanks for watching him, bitch, and then dipped out, I was like, I'm in. I was already in because I love Supergirl from like the um Justice League ah but era of Batman Superman Adventures.
Shauna (she/her): Hmm.
Shauna (she/her): o
Ryan : She's great there and she's so fun and I've always loved, obviously I always love the girl characters, but if there's like a messy version of her that we're going to get, I'm thrilled.
Z (she/they): I'm just
Ryan : So please illuminate illuminate this other version of Kara that that is coming.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, so i I love a good fuck-up character, and especially the, like, she's, you know, as Superman's cousin, the, like, one who's like, oh, I didn't get this, like, great, like, idyllic childhood with the perfect parents, and instead she is, took a different route, and so she was, and in some versions she's older, because she's, like, arrived, like, her, like, spaceship arrives late, so she, like, arrives at, like, 16 instead of as a baby.
Z (she/they): Oh.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah. Right. So the whole thing is like she in the actual, in the, like the typical Canon, her and Kal-El are both shot from Krypton, but she hits like a meteor or something goes off course.
Shauna (she/her): know
Ryan : And then eventually comes back down and Clark has had this great life. But you were saying there's a version where like, she is the one that touches down instead of Clark or I can't remember.
Shauna (she/her): Maybe that's the one I think that's the correct. I was like, I know there's something that happens that like her age is different than how Clark's is.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): like Because I think she's usually like sometimes seen as older initially.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): or like
Ryan : Interesting.
Shauna (she/her): that's where...
Ryan : Because I just think of the Melissa Benoit version and like, um well, also the Batman Superman adventures. I think she was, she seemed younger. They coded her as younger, I guess. They never really talked about ages.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah. ah Now I want to go watch it watch the CW vs. Supergirl. That's like on the list of things that i'm I can only watched the first season of, and as, again, one of the shows with a trans character in it, i feel like I feel inclined, like I should i want to watch it
Ryan : Same.
Ryan : um Okay, so other nerd things that have come out. um Anyone Marvel Zombies yet?
Z (she/they): Oh, yeah.
Shauna (she/her): I still need to watch it.
Ryan : Oh, Shauna! Z, what did you think? I guess without ruining it for Shauna, because...
Z (she/they): um
Shauna (she/her): I'm a little late sometimes.
Z (she/they): It's okay. It's okay.
Shauna (she/her): I'm almost done with Drag Race.
Z (she/they): um
Z (she/they): but Wait.
Ryan : Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't go down that rabbit hole with her, asy She's baiting you.
Z (she/they): I was
Z (she/they): was about to say there's like 50 of them going on any given time.
Ryan : She's baiting you. Yeah. Yes.
Z (she/they): um For Marvel Zombies, my husband and I have discovered this wonderful new obsession of panel-by-panel comic books that are being read out loud, and we listen to like a couple of the different Marvel Zombie runs that way.
Ryan : Oh.
Z (she/they): So I was really excited to see how they were going to tie that into kind of like what we've already seen established within the What If series that this is crossing over from, as well as like
Ryan : Mm-hmm.
Z (she/they): I don't know, there's been a little bit of wishy-washiness with how much of this is tied to the representation of the live action versions we've seen, because some of the voice acting is the exact same, if not, like some of it is very much modeled after the people. So without spoiling anything, one of them was very interesting to see how closely it was modeled after someone who is no longer gonna have a title as of whatever today's date is.
Z (she/they): um But I really liked it. yeah um I'm truly truly trying not to spoil anything because all of the things about it are very specific.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): Oh,
Ryan : Well, what's the, um who's the character that's in, I think it's okay if we say what characters are in it as long as we don't destroy any plot points.
Z (she/they): okay. Sure.
Shauna (she/her): i I'm also not super, like, I read the initial run of Marvel Zombies.
Ryan : She's not a big.
Shauna (she/her): Like, that it's not one that I'm like, absolutely.
Z (she/they): sort of
Ryan : You did? Oh, sick.
Shauna (she/her): oh yeah, back during the, like, there was a period where ah my spouse made our friend group, um like, foam Marvel Zombies Halloween costumes one year.
Shauna (she/her): 15 years ago.
Z (she/they): Sick.
Shauna (she/her): fifteen years ago
Ryan : Incredible.
Z (she/they): Love that.
Ryan : Okay, so, and also, before we go back to the that character you were saying, um
Z (she/they): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : ah what are you what is this reading comics panel by panel? What is, what? like what
Z (she/they): I had it written down in another set of notes that I spilled something on, but there is a channel that like they will just have high res, like they'll just pan on an assortment of panels, and then the creator just narrates them.
Z (she/they): Or some sometimes it'll that's the version where all of the text bubbles, the the voice bubbles have been whited out.
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Z (she/they): But then there's another version that leaves the text, but then they'll just kind of like give a synopsis of what each panel is showing. so
Ryan : Interesting. I know that they did... Please, because I know that they did something for season eight of Buffy. They had like an animated comic where it was just like they just went through the panels and different voice actors read the character dialogue.
Ryan : um And I believe they had one also for Joss Whedon's run of um Exceptional X-Men. No, not Exceptional X-Men. His his run ah with
Ryan : Emma and the black suit after the new X-Men, maybe it's his run on on new X-Men. It doesn't really matter, but um I think it's on Amazon or something. Anyways, you were saying that there's a person, i think, are you talking about um Elizabeth Olsen?
Z (she/they): I was not, but she is one of my favorite parts of the series. The other person I was talking about was a Blade.
Ryan : Same, same, same, same.
Shauna (she/her): I
Ryan : Oh yeah, shelved indefinitely.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : That is really...
Z (she/they): But at the same time, I loved what they did with this iteration of it, of having like the ah combination of the two characters.
Ryan : Yes.
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): i was going to say, so is it voiced then by Mahershala Ali?
Ryan : Um... Mahershala Ali. Yes.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, rehearsion oh yeah.
Z (she/they): Oh, I didn't think it was voice-wise.
Ryan : Yes. And it's... Oh, well, it was definitely modeled after his face.
Z (she/they): That's what I was saying is like, it looks exactly like him, but it's not him.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): And they've shelved the ah project. So it's like, this is weird.
Shauna (she/her): Interesting.
Ryan : Um... marvel zombies voice cast oh it's yeah he's played todd williams plays him interesting i don't like that
Z (she/they): um so glad. Okay.
Shauna (she/her): Wait.
Ryan : because everyone else is voiced by the original actor like mo like even to the annoying part like why do we have did we really need aquafina back like no shade but like i thought we all kind of addressed that that we weren't wild about her whole i'm asian with a black scent thing
Z (she/they): Most of
Z (she/they): them. Yeah.
Z (she/they): Well, it wasn't Rachel Weisz, that's for sure. Whoever they got, good lord.
Ryan : Wait, Rachel Weisz is...
Z (she/they): She was in the black well the Black Widow movie, and so her character carried over from that.
Ryan : Oh, yes.
Z (she/they): That was not her.
Ryan : Yes, correct. I don't think I ever noticed it. Okay, so it's also not Okoye or Thor, um but a lot of the rest of them are.
Z (she/they): Yes.
Ryan : Carrie Walgreen is who did Melina Vostokov.
Shauna (she/her): Hmm.
Z (she/they): A lot.
Ryan : but ah um I think my only real note or like thought about it, that's not very spoiler.
Ryan : I don't, at least I don't think it's spoilery is like, I think they were making it very clear that they are establishing Kamala Khan as the tent pole for this next version of the MCU.
Ryan : Like technically she is, because to your point from earlier, like,
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : obviously this is an alternate universe, but like, I'm certain that we'll get some nod to it in secret war or doomsday or whatever. Like I, they made Kamala Khan, basically Kamala Khan having a president that we're having a presidential candidate and a vice president at one point that had the same name, but pronounced it differently does make it kind of hard.
Z (she/they): It is little.
Ryan : um But Kamala Khan is right. Yes. Kamala Khan is the first mc so mutant in MCU.
Z (she/they): Yes.
Ryan : um So she's obviously got that kind of running behind her. And then the thing that...
Shauna (she/her): Is she like distinctively that? Like...
Ryan : you You watched Ms. Marvel, right?
Shauna (she/her): Yeah. Okay, but just double checking that that's the like what we're...
Ryan : So...
Z (she/they): Like the.
Ryan : I believe she's for the first person to be acknowledged as a mutant.
Shauna (she/her): okay.
Z (she/they): Well, the phrase was
Ryan : Other than Namor, but like...
Shauna (she/her): Okay,
Z (she/they): I think the phrasing was specifically like there is a mutation and then they put the little bit of a run of yeah. So that's how the one, and I can't remember if they full on called name or.
Shauna (she/her): okay. okay
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : more mutant yeah well either way she's that she's a very important character they like they chose those things to make it clear that she has a strong level of importance in the mutant world which we know is going to be the next phase um which hell fucking yeah um
Z (she/they): I can't remember.
Z (she/they): Yes.
Ryan : either of you watch eyes of wakanda it's good it's um what's the word i'm looking for and anthology yes
Z (she/they): half Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): I still haven't seen that one either.
Shauna (she/her): Anthology? Well, because I remember you had said that it was very, like, Animatrix-y, and that, like...
Z (she/they): yeah
Shauna (she/her): And I guess... And then you know what? like in I do find the, like, historical lookbacks interesting, but, like, I also, like, didn't watch a lot of the what-ifs either. Like, I find i I...
Ryan : yeah
Shauna (she/her): find myself skipping a lot of the MCU animated... offerings for no real reason. It just doesn't usually like speak to like, it's not like, ah it's not appointment television for me. Like none none of them are. Yeah.
Ryan : Interesting. you weren't Well, you weren't really big on like the MCU shows even as they came out, right?
Shauna (she/her): I missed a bunch. Like, I think I watched ice. Like I did. I didn't watch Loki all the way through. Like, I just kind of got stuck like, again, for no reason. well actually
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): My one partner is not always the easiest person to watch television with. And so it kind of became one of those like waiting to all watch something together, which then became just not watching something.
Ryan : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ryan : Don't.
Shauna (she/her): Right.
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): Like real quick. And so we have like, I mean, why I haven't watched Peacemaker yet.
Ryan : Oh, have you been watching Peacemaker Z?
Z (she/they): Absolutely, I have. Absolutely, I have.
Ryan : Love it.
Shauna (she/her): Like, for again, for all very good things, it's not like I'm like, I just happen to, and again, have fallen in such a drag race hole.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): i am, but I'm almost, i'm a almost out.
Ryan : Go ahead, Shauna. Catch us up on where you are on Drag Race. Tell us your favorite moments.
Shauna (she/her): I, I'm at, it's the end. it is All-Star season nine. And i am, I watched season 17 again. and like, now that I got all the references that I missed the first time around that I just had no idea about, like, i was like, oh, this is neat.
Ryan : Yeah. Glad that you're caught up. now there's, there are going to be several moments from, for the rest of Drag Race. So you're just gonna be like, oh, Which also, question, I know that they edited out some of the more like explicitly transphobic card things that they used to do in games. like
Z (she/they): think there
Ryan : They changed it to Drag Queen. um Were they still doing the top the like Tyra Male style thing when you rewatched the early seasons? The You've Got Me All joke.
Shauna (she/her): Oh yeah, no, that the that has stayed in until, gosh, I think it was, gosh, I'm trying to think what the who the what the first season they didn't have it was.
Shauna (she/her): But like I remember like it was like a distinctively there was like a trans queen on that season, which I think is part of where it why it started changing.
Z (she/they): here is
Ryan : Yeah, that makes sense. um Well, the we kind of jumped right into um the perfect segue because I was curious um about your experience with like appointment television viewing Z and and what you have made time for. like Where did your love of Marvel start? What's your origin story um with Marvel? What's your origin story with the MCU?
Ryan : How'd you come to it?
Z (she/they): um Definitely like animated Spider-Man, animated X-Men, like Saturday morning cartoons, all of those.
Ryan : Oh,
Z (she/they): um But also like loved Xena, loved like the early 2000s leather clad X-Men, loved those.
Ryan : yeah.
Z (she/they): um Also, Hot Take, I think that, of course, I can't remember the name of it now that I've said Hot Take, but whatever version of Batman and Robin they had nipples on the suits is the best one.
Ryan : Oh. yeah
Z (she/they): Uma Thurman as the reason Ivy.
Ryan : oh
Ryan : Baby, that's not a hot take around these parts.
Z (she/they): Rubberlip.
Shauna (she/her): I believe Batman forever. Honestly, I feel like I'm doing, I have not watched it in the last 10 plus years, i.e. since having come out as queer. And I'm just curious of the, how much campier the Joel Schumacher Batman is in a different kind of way that like, cause it never bothered me the way that some people hated it.
Z (she/they): Oh.
Ryan : It's incredible.
Shauna (she/her): And I just never, but I never, i didn't have the language for, well, this doesn't bother me. Like you hate it. Like,
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): Oh, I live for it.
Ryan : it um Batman Forever, I think, is the first appearance of the ah anatomically correct um super suits for Batman and Robin.
Ryan : But Batman and Robin is the ah Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy, Alicia Silverstone as Batgirl, pussy, pussy, pussy, cunt.
Z (she/they): Hmm.
Z (she/they): Here we are. Everyone.
Ryan : Like, I'm...
Z (she/they): we won
Ryan : oh Sorry, okay, sorry. I...
Shauna (she/her): Chris O'Donnell, Robin.
Ryan : Yes. His, whatever. He's fine. He's fine.
Shauna (she/her): chris are yeah Because it's the Chris O'Donnell, George Clooney, and then Val Kilmer is the one before.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Yes.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): RIP, Val Kilmer.
Z (she/they): RIP.
Ryan : Did he really die or did he just socially die?
Shauna (she/her): Pretty sure.
Ryan : okay.
Shauna (she/her): no no, no, I think he's dead. Like, for realsies.
Ryan : Yeah, I think he also, or maybe I'm thinking of the guy that played Superman. Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Also dead.
Ryan : No, but so not fucking Christopher Reeves.
Shauna (she/her): Thank you.
Ryan : Dean Cain is who I was thinking of.
Z (she/they): Oh, no, he's...
Ryan : And how he jumped out of nowhere to fucking say that he's an idiot asshole.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : um Okay, so you were saying, like, the early MCU, like, you were a Fox X-Men girly, Fox X-Men programming.
Z (she/they): Oh, yeah.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): That and the little-known TBN, Trinity Broadcasting Network, a Bible Man.
Ryan : And...
Z (she/they): Bible Man went hard in our house.
Ryan : Shut up.
Z (she/they): I had the action figure.
Ryan : shot
Shauna (she/her): ah See, I thought you were going to go Birds of Prey, the version with
Z (she/they): Oh, no.
Ryan : no Nope.
Z (she/they): Nope. Bible man.
Ryan : Close. Close. So close. I don't, I think Birds of Prey was.
Shauna (she/her): Bible Man, not Bible Woman.
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): He was a man.
Ryan : There's definitely never going to be a Bible woman. Be real.
Z (she/they): Why would there be?
Ryan : um
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, did you hear that, Erica?
Ryan : Okay. So.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : ah That was a swing at Erica Kirk, wasn't it
Shauna (she/her): I would never do that. Yeah, would never...
Ryan : No, that would be so inappropriate.
Shauna (she/her): and yeah not yeah that would i would never
Ryan : No, Shauna's so pure of heart. um So, okay, cool. um So did you jump into the MCU right away? Like, because I know I was a Fox down, Sony down, but I don't think I saw a Marvel movie until like Civil War.
Ryan : That was like the first one I went out of my, yes.
Shauna (she/her): Really?
Ryan : I didn't, I don't give a fuck about the Avengers.
Shauna (she/her): oh Oh, see, I was day one.
Ryan : Those both.
Shauna (she/her): Like, i my cousin was, like, a big X-Men fan, as I've enumerated previously, and we were, like, day one, watch showing up for all the X-Men movies. Like, right, like...
Ryan : Oh, yes.
Z (she/they): Oh, yes.
Ryan : but That's my shit. But like the once they started with Captain America and the actual MCU proper, i didn't see any of those because I don't give a fuck about the Avengers.
Shauna (she/her): o Okay, okay, okay.
Ryan : So that was just never my interest.
Shauna (she/her): o
Ryan : But when Civil War came, i read Civil War, the comic, largely because of the involvement of the X-Men. And I was like, I have to see how they're going to take this incredibly vast, expansive Thor comes back from the fucking dead.
Ryan : Like we talk about Ant-Man being a drunk, abusive man. ah Nope.
Z (she/they): Oof.
Ryan : Okay. Got it. It's just a five on five battle royale at the fucking airport.
Z (she/they): I
Ryan : And it was great. Thanks.
Z (she/they): it
Ryan : Thanks MCU. um Okay. So,
Shauna (she/her): did you play marvel but and the marvel ultimate alliance 2 the
Ryan : ah Yes, I did.
Shauna (she/her): the one that was civil war that like and you got to pick your side and like i just always i know i never ended up picking iron man because i never wanted to like i was like i guess i could join the thunderbolt so i was like i'm okay
Ryan : Yes. I think I kind remember.
Ryan : No. So, Z, um Black Widow starts phase four.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : how kept up were you on phase because part of the reason that we're doing this phase four rewatch is because shauna has neglected most of phase four and we've got some big shit coming up so what was your experience with phase four what did you think about it in general
Z (she/they): um I watched pretty much all of it. um Pretty much with everything I liked, the the women led things better. um So things like Captain America or Falcon and Winter Soldier, like, okay, that established some story, I guess.
Ryan : Yeah. Fine. Whatever.
Z (she/they): um Secret Invasion, again,
Ryan : Sure.
Ryan : Who? Who?
Z (she/they): Oof.
Ryan : o
Z (she/they): Who? um But like, love the Marvels, um loved, i think that's going back to our previous question.
Ryan : po
Z (she/they): Pretty much when I started hard MCU as it stands now was, I was catching up because my husband and 10 years ago got together and he caught me up probably like Guardians of Galaxy 2 forward.
Z (she/they): the first one I remember being like, oh, this is my movie that I'm excited for was Captain Marvel.
Shauna (she/her): Hmm.
Z (she/they): um
Shauna (she/her): So good.
Z (she/they): Loved it, loved it, but like also in different eyes about some pieces of it now, but I mean, I feel like that's every media that you kind of get to sit with for a while.
Ryan : Sure.
Z (she/they): um But season, not season, phase four overall, try to keep up. think really only missed incremental things. Most of it's just because of the nature of how our brains work in this house. We've rewatched almost everything.
Z (she/they): um But I had not rewatched Black Widow until you all approached me with joining you here.
Ryan : there
Z (she/they): So that was a nice excuse to rewatch that.
Ryan : Yeah, there was, you know, there was a lot of hate for phase four because they took a lot of big swings. And fortunately, unfortunately, it was also like the most diverse slate of um characters and properties.
Z (she/they): Okay.
Ryan : And so it's like... I'm so glad that you all swung so big on the Marvels. What a bummer that it happened during the fucking SAG strike and they weren't allowed to promo it.
Ryan : And then, you know, people just now are being like, wait, this movie is fucking great.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : But of course everyone had some.
Shauna (she/her): And in the post-pandemic period of not going to theaters.
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): Like, and that whole era, because that was a big part of, like, well, I'm not going to go see The Eternals because, like, not going out to theaters.
Ryan : Yes.
Ryan : I don't have three hours to sit around that many people.
Shauna (she/her): Right. like pick but Like, if you're picking your battles, like, or Black Widow, which was, like, what year?
Ryan : yeah
Shauna (she/her): 2021? 2020? Right. Like,
Ryan : It was 2020, think, or maybe 2021. Yeah, it must have been 20. It was the beginning of 2020.
Shauna (she/her): right like
Ryan : Sorry, it was the beginning of 2021. Because it was cold. Okay, Shauna, you know, obviously we're not going to...
Ryan : um cause it was cold
Shauna (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : um
Shauna (she/her): ah
Ryan : okay so and and shana you know obviously we're not gonna um talk like about phase four in general, but um what was your what was your reintroduction to phase four? how How are you feeling as we're getting ready to rewatch to start this run?
Shauna (she/her): No, I'm feeling like i and say this now having watched Black Widow, that I enjoy it. Like, I think there's a lot of good there. Like, Yelena is such a delightful character and is just so one of my, like, favorite things of like, oh, this isn't a character that I had any idea it was not on my radar at all until the MCU. And I'm like, I'm here. I'm so here for her.
Shauna (she/her): You know, ten toes down for this iteration of this character. Like, you you're on to something. She's funny and charismatic, but you care about her. Like, and that really showed.
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): And I think like having, you know, people like that or David Harbour's Alexei, like, is such a, you know, like, i still like, i know exactly why it didn't, like, again, I didn't care about Black Widow because I didn't care about seeing a Scarlett Johansson Black Widow movie after the character's already dead.
Ryan : Yes.
Ryan : Yes.
Ryan : yes
Shauna (she/her): And it just like, just never was that interested in ScarJo. And so I was always just very kind of met, like man, this iteration of Black Widow anyways.
Ryan : yes
Shauna (she/her): And, but also like, it was, it was a good. it was, it was an inner joy, enjoyable movie, a good action, a lot of good action pieces that you don't always get from Marvel movies in that same kind of like action way.
Ryan : Yes, yes.
Shauna (she/her): Like there's fight scenes, but not usually like, yeah.
Ryan : I can't wait to talk about that fight scene it's incredible.
Shauna (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : Yeah, so let's just jump right into it. um Any other thoughts about phase four, Z, before we we jump in?
Z (she/they): No, I co-sign on there's a lot of really fun big swing things that they've thrown out there that I hope that we're not going to be skittish about moving into phase five. So I'm hoping that we can take some more big swings because there's a lot of really fun content that we've really barely started bringing into the MCU properties.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): So I'm excited. Yeah.
Ryan : the the Just the mutant world alone where they can really go for it. Like, come on, y'all. Please don't don't fumble this. um
Ryan : okay so we're here to talk about uh black widow came out in 2021 the director is kate shortland we have scar joe's natasha romanoff we're in
Shauna (she/her): But also, I saw Jack Schaefer in the list of people writing on it when I i noticed her name.
Ryan : Oh, really?
Z (she/they): I did as well.
Shauna (she/her): yeah which i had i Yeah, which I hadn't realized.
Ryan : diva herself?
Shauna (she/her): that I'm like, oh, that makes sense why this is the story. like in make her Her writing is absolutely on the movie in hindsight, and I noted that.
Ryan : Yeah. Because there's a lot of parts where it's like, oh, that's kind of, that was quippy. Like when she breaks her own nose and she goes, I'm, I'm like breaking the septum or whatever.
Ryan : She's, she like responds in kind of what she's doing.
Z (she/they): We'll look back to it.
Ryan : Yes. Yes. Yeah. um Okay, so obviously this is spoiler for Black Widow if you haven't seen it. It also we've I mean, I can't imagine that you are watching. Well, who knows? Maybe there are people that are like, I didn't watch phase four. So um I want to start getting ready or, you know, phase five is coming. So let's let's familiarize ourselves. So um the movie opens with a flashback in Ohio because everybody fucking loves using Ohio as like just a generic place where things happen.
Ryan : um A young Natasha and her sister, Yelena, live in suburban Ohio with their surrogate parents, Alexei and Melina. Turns out they're Russian spies on an um undercover mission after escaping to Cuba.
Ryan : The girls are taken and forcibly enrolled in the Red Room, a secret program training female assassins. This sets the tone. Natasha's upbringing wasn't just tragic. It was weaponized.
Ryan : That scene where they are separated hit a little bit harder this time around... given what's happening in the world right now. Like that scene, anytime stuff with like siblings, like even if my relationship with my siblings is weird, but like there is a specific dynamic between siblings that you're just like, oh fuck, imagine.
Ryan : And then little fucking, um when she steals that dude's du gun and threats to shoot, i was like, all right, bad bitch. Anyways, sorry. um Thoughts on that first prologue? How did that land with you all?
Z (she/they): I think that like for folks who, and and I don't know about both of you ah extensively, but growing up in Ohio, some of it felt like, oh yeah, this is pretty blank slate, middle America.
Ryan : you
Z (she/they): um So like, I'll take the read.
Ryan : Yes. T.
Z (she/they): it feels applicable.
Ryan : t
Z (she/they): um And I really like, like again, I've watched far too many breakdowns about this at this point, but just cinema, the visual things that come back later in the film that they established within these first few opening minutes was really fun.
Z (she/they): um I like that attention to detail, especially when it comes to something that's not just a set dressing, it's like a totem within the the actual movie.
Ryan : Ooh, what, yeah say more. You could, you know, we we can, in case we forget to draw the line between those, what what are you talking about?
Z (she/they): Okay. So there's like, at the very end, they're like, okay, it's time to go. It's go time. And like, you can immediately tell that the Natasha character is already unsettled.
Ryan : ah Oh.
Z (she/they): And then I didn't realize it when I was watching it and even when I was rewatching it, but they kind of established like she's already been to the Red Room. Like this is not just the adult assignment. This is her assignment as well.
Ryan : Right.
Z (she/they): And so just like understanding the psychology of here's this severely traumatized young woman who's put into another country, has it's all of it is just it just kind of.
Ryan : Right. Right. Sure.
Z (she/they): was overwhelming. Not the best scenes to watch before you go into group therapy, I found out last week. itself um But some of the physical pieces were, you could tell she knew that it was ending upon rewatching. And so she tried to grab this photo album and then the mother, but she was like, no, leave it.
Z (she/they): And then later you see that as she is trash talking, like it was an assignment, we did everything perfect. And then Scarlett Johansson's character sees it on the shelf of like, Okay, it was all business. But yet, the thing I wanted to get back, you went back and basically recreated our Ohio home here in this place as well.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): So this little pig pen.
Ryan : In this pig pen. Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah. Shauna, what about you?
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, i just... It was a very heavy opening. like and i like I thought it was a very good tone setter for the rest, but also like...
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): I think my one big criticism of the movie is that there's a, it tells the story of via inference a lot, but not necessarily like, I don't know.
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): I just feel like it jumps around a lot. And like, you know, like all of a sudden, like with now when they like, they flash forward, because like, again, this movie came out after ScarJo Black Widow was already dead.
Shauna (she/her): And then they fast forward to,
Ryan : right
Shauna (she/her): you know, from her childhood to the post-Civil War era. And they kind of paint that picture, but they also kind of want to be a little loosey-goosey on years now, because as there's like a weird time jump, and that universe is five years ahead of our actual world.
Shauna (she/her): And it's like, yeah but like but so it's like it just all felt a little messier and a little like, prefer now I'm here.
Ryan : Yeah, totally.
Shauna (she/her): oh yeah, now there's this character.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): it's just, I like there needed to be more exposition.
Ryan : Well, like...
Ryan : Yeah, and it's between, um it's it takes place after Civil War when she's on the run. So if you haven't seen, i mean, I guess they they do kind of lay it out pretty easily for you. But like, if you haven't seen it, then like, you know, you don't necessarily understand, like when she dyes her hair blonde at the end, and it's like all this stuff that you're like,
Ryan : right Right, right, right, right, right. And granted, again, we were watching it, you know, however many years after it came out, but also it came out after the character died. So like everything, this was too late.
Ryan : It like this would have worked so well in, but even if they had done it in between um Infinity, no ah Civil War and Infinity War, like,
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : that Of course, they were never going to give her a movie that early, but why set it during that time?
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Like, what the fuck?
Shauna (she/her): but But again, it just goes to show wide why did you need to have this movie?
Ryan : I guess I didn't really talk about that.
Shauna (she/her): like what a But this felt kind of I don't know. But again, its point was to introduce more characters and just to like give the actor a swan song because they're like, okay, no, no.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): yeah
Shauna (she/her): And I think this is something to be said for the fact that Marvel, for as much as I love it, doesn't do great in terms of leading women.
Z (she/they): no
Ryan : Mm-hmm.
Shauna (she/her): that I feel like the hate that Captain Marvel gets and even Ms. Marvel too, by extension and Black Widow and what, that's it. Like, she's the only like big girl Avenger again, like Scarlet Witch is there, but like,
Ryan : She's that's like a completely separate thing. Scarlet, which and even Elizabeth Olsen as Wanda Maximoff is its own, like not to reuse the expression, but like temple. Like there are people that are invested in the MCU because of her.
Ryan : I don't know that a lot of people came to the MCU because they're like, I've got to see what they do with Black Widow.
Shauna (she/her): Right.
Ryan : Like, I don't know that she's that important.
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : I feel like obviously she's probably gained importance since her entrance into the MCU.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : There's this like incredible Russell Dauterman is a comic book artist and he has done a series of covers that are like just, um, uh,
Ryan : all the variant costumes of that character. So he's done one for Storm and Scarlet Witch and Jean, and he has one for Black Widow. And he's like my favorite artist. and i was like, wow, that's so cool. I don't give a fuck. Like not even while looking at this beautiful piece of art, I'm like, I don't want to know about any of these other ones.
Ryan : I don't care. it's I know that's awful, but like she's a bang, bang, shoot him up assassin.
Z (she/they): No.
Ryan : Sorry.
Z (she/they): See, I,
Shauna (she/her): That's great. you Right. Like.
Z (she/they): I actually, I really did enjoy it and I liked its placement because I think it kind of gave us like, it gave us a moment to, yas send off Scarlett Johansson in that iteration of Natasha.
Ryan : Same. Same.
Z (she/they): But I think as we're looking at now in hindsight at Thunderbolts and Hawkeye and all these other series that now it's having watched this introduction of the character of Yelena,
Z (she/they): I feel like it makes me so much more inclined to be rooting for her in the rest of these properties. And like a sense of like, I just like even thinking back to rewatching Thunderbolts after this, looking at the introduction of Taskmaster of just like, she died so quick.
Z (she/they): Well, spoiler for Thunderbolts, I guess.
Ryan : Yeah, spoiler, LOL.
Z (she/they): um Just like with how that character was just dispatched literally so quickly. And then her just animation of she had a hard life, she killed a lot of people and then she died.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): And it's like, you know that after learning more about Yelena and how hard that best woman cares for the people that she's close with and specifically like at the end of the movie and how there's a kinship with the other folks who went through the Red Room of just she cared so deeply for this woman, but then she can only
Ryan : Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): really move forward with her emotions of like, not even grieving, but just, Hey, this is who she was. this is how, this is what was her life. And this is the result.
Shauna (she/her): right
Z (she/they): Like, I don't need to go into this.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): So I feel like I would not have such a, an inclination to care as deeply about Yelena's character if it wasn't for this movie.
Ryan : Mm-hmm.
Z (she/they): And I feel like it might've gotten lost in the shuffle if it would have been kind of posted up a little bit further back, but
Ryan : Sure.
Z (she/they): fully agree, like maybe before the character died or like maybe immediately after the character died, not two, three years after.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): Okay.
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, no, but...
Ryan : And the specifically the thing about like, it is to be clear.
Z (she/they): Yep. hey
Ryan : I really like black widow. I think i loved this movie. I loved it when I saw it. I, you know, I've rewatched it a couple of times. um And yeah, I think she does a great job.
Ryan : I like i like her as Natasha Romanoff. I am invested in her as Natasha Romanoff.
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : And to Z's point, that also very much so meeting Yelena in the context that we do and seeing how much, because we get all this stuff about how much Natasha cared about her family and like she wanted to find her family and like that was only harder for her younger sister who was like, I'm not an Avenger.
Ryan : Like I, you're like, so that, that character in particular,
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : um she's probably like one of my favorite parts of the MCU period point blank.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Um, But then let's let's let's keep it jumping um to actually get to the part where Yelena is like grown up and and in the movie. um So after the events of Civil War, Natasha is on the run from the government because she didn't want to register herself.
Ryan : um While hiding out in Norway, she gets a package from Yelena and its vials of red...
Shauna (she/her): But also, why does she need to register herself? She's just a fucking dude.
Ryan : Yeah, she's literally just a bang, bang, shoot him up.
Z (she/they): This going to out there.
Shauna (she/her): Like...
Shauna (she/her): Like, she doesn't got powers, she's just like...
Ryan : No, but I, yeah, so I guess that's a good question of whether they were um registering them as superhumans or as superheroes, because she is a super...
Shauna (she/her): Yeah. Right, like, super...
Z (she/they): Hmm.
Shauna (she/her): like she's like Maybe she's like superhero passing. Like, is that the like situation?
Ryan : Great. Yes, Shauna, that's exactly what I guess she passes.
Shauna (she/her): Okay. Yeah.
Ryan : She's stealth as a superhero. Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : So ah we learn about the this antidote called the red dust that frees the widows who are trained um in the red room from mind control.
Shauna (she/her): But again, it just kind of shows up suddenly. It's like and like, now we're here.
Ryan : Yeah. Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Oh yeah, and you can get the widows out of their trance. Again, you can kind of see it, but like there's no nothing that gets us to this point in the story other than it's here. Here you go.
Ryan : Well, if, but if you remember, it starts with the rogue widow who wakes up Natasha or wakes up Yelena.
Z (she/they): They explained it at.
Shauna (she/her): Right.
Ryan : So like, I thought that that plot line of like this dust actually was like kind of compelling. It's just very, um like there's a name for it. ah Like it's the cure all.
Ryan : It's like the, um
Shauna (she/her): It's the, um, what's it?
Z (she/they): Word.
Shauna (she/her): It's the the the suitcase.
Ryan : the widget, not the,
Shauna (she/her): Um.
Ryan : deus ex machina, like intervention from the gods.
Shauna (she/her): Yes.
Ryan : It's like, here you go. This thing will cure all the problems.
Shauna (she/her): Yes.
Ryan : Like, oh, okay. Got it.
Shauna (she/her): That is.
Ryan : Cool. What a, what a beautiful a name for it as a, um, oh, it'll come back to me.
Shauna (she/her): MacGuffin. That was what was thinking of.
Ryan : Um, okay.
Shauna (she/her): It is Deus Ex Machina, though. That is the...
Ryan : Yes. Which is like one of my favorite phrases that I learned in literature. Um, okay. so none of that stuff is really worth talking about too, too much because this jumps right into the,
Ryan : To me, one of my favorite action scenes in ah the MCU, especially of Phase 4, which is their reunion in Budapest, which is like a hysterical Budapest.
Z (she/they): mm-hmm
Shauna (she/her): Budapest.
Ryan : I'm pretty sure it's Budapest. um Natasha reunites with Yelena. It's tense and emotional. And they have this fucking all out brawl in Natasha's old apartment.
Ryan : um We get like a couple of cute moments where there's like arrows and Yelena's like, what kind of gun does that? And she says it's arrows. And it's, you know, obviously it's a nod to Hawkeye.
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : But this first reunion of them that, of course, starts violently. Like, just what's what's your um what's your thoughts? ah how did we What did we think of this Budapest reunion?
Z (she/they): I think it's a good allegory for trauma meeting trauma. And just like we want want to be able to reconnect with those that
Shauna (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Z (she/they): maybe we have a history with, but like when trauma meets trauma, sometimes it's so hard to trust and to lean into that, that like, yeah, you're brawl for a little bit until you can prove like, hey, I'm not gonna i'm not goingnna do it right now.
Ryan : You talked about this in therapy, didn't you? Because that is like so...
Z (she/they): um
Ryan : I'm kidding, I'm kidding. That That's...
Z (she/they): in therapy so much right now that it's literally like, people cannot have conversations with me outside of therapy because it ends up devolving into all this shit.
Ryan : Yeah.
Ryan : you
Ryan : But that's, it's, it is the fucking truth. Like you are supposed to be sisters. Why are you, why is your instinct to fight other than that is kind of how sisters are.
Ryan : And, but like, that is, that's that neither of them know what's really going on with the other one. Why are you here? Why did you send me this?
Z (she/they): Why'd you bring it back?
Ryan : It's, it that's a, ah yes, it's a great, that's a great point. Why are you wearing, like, why do you land like that? Um, ah Yeah, so we have this big fight scene. Okay, sorry, I know you probably already said this.
Ryan : Was this your first time what watching this movie?
Shauna (she/her): Oh yeah, absolutely.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Oh, great. So what did you think about the the reunion of Yelena and ah Natasha?
Z (she/they): Hmm.
Shauna (she/her): I mean, I just thought it was good, like, honestly.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Like, I was like, oh, this is a very, like, all of a sudden, like, like, again, I thought it was like kind of a little quick. Like, I felt like it could just, like, was it that, like, and now, like, oh, well, I sent the package to you.
Shauna (she/her): And there's, like, a lot of, like, okay, you' like, all right, right, yeah, okay, like, why would you have sent it to your long-lost sister that did you know that you were, that she was your sister and you, but you haven't really talked, like,
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): but like you have kind of like, like, and they just kind think there's just like a lot of like, it's fine.
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): Just dont worry about it. This is where they're getting past this moment real quick.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): No, I thought it made a lot of sense because it's like, she's like, you're an Avenger. You're like on the news here. Put this, take this, take this and make good with it.
Ryan : Yes. Yes.
Z (she/they): So like, and of course they explained that. So of course I'm just regurgitating what they did.
Shauna (she/her): Right, like, that's, right, like, I'm like, I get, but, like, I just, maybe I just wanted a little more show and a little less tell of the, like, where, like, how they got in.
Ryan : Right, right.
Z (she/they): Right.
Ryan : Sure. Well, how did she figure out where she was? Because she's literally on the run. That's the part that, as you're saying that, I'm like, wait, I don't think they, she's a spy.
Shauna (she/her): Well, like.
Z (she/they): Bye. Bye.
Shauna (she/her): she's on the run. But that's what I'm saying. like she's on like i just felt it was like a little Like, she's on the run. And then she knew to return to her old apartment in Budapest. And like, me like, like all of those, like a little, like, I was like, okay.
Ryan : Yeah, yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Like, I was like, all right, they just needed to maneuver the chess pieces to the right location positions. And that's fine.
Ryan : Even note, a note with the package, like
Ryan : tag, you're it, found you, meet me in Budapest, meet me at your old place in Budapest or whatever, like something, ah T, T, but you know, Shauna's point, there is quite a bit of inference.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Z (she/they): What it gets intercepted and it'll read the notes?
Z (she/they): They don't have any little random girls on it.
Ryan : You do just kind of have to be like, yeah, we'll go with this.
Z (she/they): Oh, yeah.
Ryan : And I did because I really didn't think about like
Shauna (she/her): Advert
Ryan : You know, they also have one disposable black character, which I don't think I ever put a note of and in here, but it's her best friend that does all this stuff for
Z (she/they): Oh.
Ryan : Okay, so we do meet that character before this reunion. he is her, yikes, yikes helper he he found her he found her this place he finds her a quinjet later in the movie or quadjet uh he gets her all these he's like her black market connection but he's literally a magical negro he exists no for no other purpose than to advance the plot of the main character main white character and then nothing from him
Z (she/they): Oh, stop.
Shauna (she/her): and where
Shauna (she/her): And again, they never showed any sort of like, I was like, oh yeah, of course, from his existence in these other MCU titles.
Ryan : Right, right.
Shauna (she/her): of you know blood But again, the fact that there's like all like, it's like all of a sudden we're just like it this like, and guess of course of course she has friends and acquaintances in her life.
Ryan : Oh, yes.
Shauna (she/her): She's a like a, you know, like but it just feels like the Marvel movie
Ryan : Sure. She's a super spy. She's got connections.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, but I just, like, it just feels like, again, like, a little, like, you just have to connect the dots yourself because they just needed something to keep moving along the parts because you need to have her, like, he has just enough connection that he can get her anything, but it all works bad because he's kind of bad at his job, but he's kind of good at it if you give him more than a day's notice.
Z (she/they): Hmm.
Ryan : Right, right.
Shauna (she/her): Like, and it's like,
Ryan : And then there's also this, like, sexual tension, too. Like, I wonder if there was a ah pre-screening where it's, like, they're implying that they're fucking or something. Like, why is this man running these errands for you? I know he, she pays him, but, like, whatever. i don't know. Maybe we're reading too much into it. But he is a textbook magical negro. Like, he advanced the storyline for us. Thank you, sir. And then he shucked and jived his way off stage.
Ryan : See you later. ha ha.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): and Until he shows up again with an even more magical super jet shit.
Ryan : A quad jet. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Okay.
Ryan : Right. Exactly.
Shauna (she/her): Alright.
Ryan : um So during this little reunion part, we ah learned that this dust can free the widows um and that Yelena wants to take down the Red Room, which Natasha thinks she already did with Clint.
Shauna (she/her): That's...
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : So there is one of the things that we... finally learn about her that was alluded to in the movies was she was an enemy agent she was a spy for the red room and she defected to shield and what we learned was killing drake off and destroying the red room was her final sort of um pledge of allegiance to shield to say that she had crossed over so i we do get that i think that was a cool bow um and you know again i i don't know that
Z (she/they): please.
Ryan : if you hadn't seen all the other movies where we learn about her relationship with Clint and all that stuff, then, you know, we wouldn't, this wouldn't be impactful, but, um, it, it is thankfully. So, um, so let's see, blah, blah, blah. Taskmaster is introduced.
Ryan : What, a again, ah ah okay, so we have this incredibly trained assassin and her arch, her foil in this movie is a person who can copy any fighting style, thus making her essentially like unbeatable.
Ryan : ah
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : So that's cool. But um when we find out more about her later, that it is it is interesting. But we have a cool fight scene with her, with Black Widow and Taskmaster.
Shauna (she/her): Is it the same actor in Thunderbolts?
Z (she/they): yeah
Shauna (she/her): Okay. Because I just, like, again, like, going back to that kind of, like, all of a sudden, like, wow, like, literally, I don't think ever speaks a sentence, like, or, like, as after she's, yeah, like, and it's, then they're like, yep, this is the expendable one
Ryan : Okay.
Ryan : No, she doesn't speak at all.
Ryan : Yep.
Shauna (she/her): Like, and I guess, like, but also, like, Taskmaster is, like, a whole, like, i don't know, just,
Ryan : Yep.
Z (she/they): Yeah, I don't think
Shauna (she/her): It's fine.
Ryan : Sure. Z, what were you saying?
Z (she/they): ah she literally didn't even have a line in this movie. The only dialogue she had before being killed off was like, I'm not here for you. Like, that's your one. That's your one line.
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): yeah. It was like, is he dead?
Ryan : be
Shauna (she/her): or like, is he gone? Like that was it. That was the, like, and that was like, all right.
Ryan : yeah Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : And dish...
Shauna (she/her): Like, because you all fucking know that guy's an asshole.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Right, right. That, okay, so we... we They decide that they're going to team up and they're going to take down the red room together, but they need some help.
Ryan : And they decide they're going to reunite with their father, Alexei, who is ah red guardian, who is essentially Russia's answer to Captain America. He got the super serum.
Ryan : um He is in prison, although we don't, I don't know if we know why, um
Shauna (she/her): They ultimately explain it through his talking about how, like, but again, it was all like, I helped him and then he put me in prison.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, and Soviet the Russia, you know, government jail you.
Ryan : Prison takes you.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, that's...
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): so
Ryan : um So, played by the absolute daddy of a man, David Harbour. ah i'll Raw Dog in every version.
Ryan : Stranger Things, this Thunderbolts. Come here, David Harbour.
Z (she/they): Absolutely.
Ryan : Let me see what that
Z (she/they): Jesus Christ.
Z (she/they): yourself out.
Ryan : Okay, so yeah, we we who we get him in prison and yet Natasha and Yelena break him out. um
Z (she/they): All I can think is he's getting a back tattoo. and so for the rest of the movie, I'm like, he's got a fresh prison back tattoo. Like, that sounds like the most, like, overstimulating thing that I feel like that's the only thing I'm really struggling with in this entire movie is how is David, how is David Harbour running around with a fresh back piece?
Ryan : He sure does.
Ryan : yeah
Ryan : Well, he's he's got the super serum, so it probably yields really quickly.
Z (she/they): Oh, duh. they have to get super needles?
Ryan : I don't know. Because is the skin impenetrable?
Shauna (she/her): Well, like, i always think about that with, like, shaving and shit. Like...
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): Oh, you're right.
Ryan : Don't ask questions we don't want answers to. Well, it's very clearly that Alexei doesn't shave, which makes him even f***ing hotter.
Z (she/they): You're right. Sorry. Sorry.
Ryan : um i'm I must be feral because... ah The thoughts going through my brain. Okay, so... um There's a cute little scene. We learn that Red Guardian is like obsessed with himself. He really is like frustrated that, um that he didn't get the recognition that Captain America has gotten.
Ryan : And so the way that they break him out of prison is like really endearing because they like hide it in a Red Guardian toy. And that's how they get the message to him. um But we have this kind of insane retrieval that involves an avalanche, like,
Z (she/they): with
Ryan : in absolutely insane, ah but they successfully extract him. um Any other thoughts from this moment of um first impressions of of David Harbour Alexei?
Shauna (she/her): I mean, what you said, i probably wouldn't use those exact words, but that side it is pretty accurate.
Z (she/they): ah what
Shauna (she/her): and
Ryan : Yeah, you want to know butt smells like? Because that's what was like.
Shauna (she/her): Again, not how I would say or perhaps, but you know.
Ryan : Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. Sorry. And Z, your thoughts? mr
Z (she/they): um ah Just a lot of blushing and a lot of a lot of quandaries that are running through my head as well. but I don't know if I want to record at this time.
Ryan : Uh-huh.
Z (she/they): glad
Ryan : Yeah, I really can't believe I said the butt thing. um
Shauna (she/her): I can.
Z (she/they): you did.
Ryan : But...
Ryan : so They get Alexi out and um they're like, oh, well, we can't do the thing that we need to do. We need Melina, the mom. So we are having a full-blown family reunion.
Ryan : um
Z (she/they): yeah
Shauna (she/her): kept thinking it was the Mortal Kombat woman who like removes her mask and it's like every time they say Melina.
Ryan : no
Z (she/they): Demon.
Ryan : Scary.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah. And then I get disappointed.
Ryan : So she, um when they when they catch up with her, she's working on a pig farm that we learned she is basically using mind control on these pigs to train them in the same way that the red room is training the girls um and i had a real big issue with that i was like are am i supposed to find this endearing that she like low-key tries like makes this pig almost die
Shauna (she/her): No, I don't. No, no, I don't think so. I think it was more just a, like, I think it shows just how kind of fucked up that whole situation is.
Z (she/they): I think,
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): yeah, I think it's it's showing like the reprogramming or deprogramming
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): programming that in a short time Yelena has even experienced and Natasha's experience of just seeing like, you're this is exciting for you, but for us, this is like, why are you doing this?
Z (she/they): You could have just said, you didn't have to show us.
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): And she's like, I'm just showing you, which is like, how often do our do people in our lives, parents or whatever, they're just like, what?
Ryan : yeah yeah
Z (she/they): I'm just showing you. And it's like, you don't have to do that at all.
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): Like you could have just said it
Ryan : Excellent point.
Z (she/they): I think
Ryan : It is like one of the most true parental dynamics that we see come out is like this near like basically intentional re-traumatization of their children for the sake of the bit, basically.
Z (she/they): Oh my God.
Ryan : Like, I just wanted to show you that's a really great point.
Z (she/they): Yeah. It's good.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah. that This could have been an email.
Z (she/they): The mummy.
Ryan : This could have been an email.
Shauna (she/her): Absolutely.
Ryan : um But we do get this lovely family dinner moment. Melina plays... ah What's her name, right? um From...
Z (she/they): The mummy.
Ryan : Rachel Weisz. Exactly. That's why you said that earlier. And she also is in um Dark Knight as Ra's al Ghul's daughter, right?
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : She's Talia al Ghul.
Z (she/they): know I don't remember that ah actor's name, but it's not Rachel Weisz.
Ryan : She's not?
Shauna (she/her): Maybe?
Shauna (she/her): looking
Ryan : Talia Algool, Dark Knight Rises.
Ryan : Oh, no, it's not. mayor Oh, it's Marianne Cotillard. Interesting. I fully thought that that was Rachel Weisz.
Shauna (she/her): That's a name that I know of, but if you I could never be like, oh, of course, that actor.
Ryan : Yeah. Same. Right. Um, so we have this endearing moment with, um, the family reunion. ah we get a couple of cute kind of like, you know, Alexi trying to be dad. They're at the dinner table.
Ryan : Alexi tries on the red guardian suit and also still totally does it for me.
Z (she/they): Oh, absolutely.
Ryan : Um, so let's talk about this, uh, uh, family reunion dinner moment because, um,
Ryan : Z, I think you already kind of acknowledged this, but we have Yelena as sort of like the voice of truth of saying the thing that no one else is saying, um which is like that meant something to me.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : And despite everyone else saying that they it didn't mean anything, it very clearly did.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : So if you want to pick that thread up.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Z (she/they): I think it's also just like I can see two different mindsets and I think both are valid of just I can see it from the mindset of looking at it pragmatically and be like, none of this was real. You were at like we were asked to play a part in something that was really shitty and we did it.
Ryan : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Z (she/they): Why are we pretending like this? Why are we still pretending? Like, I feel like that does have validity in it. But also, I think there's the human aspect of it of just because it was something that you were coerced or it was your orders to do, because very much as a child, like you don't have that agency, you were coerced into doing this. Whereas the adults in the room, this was their charge and they consciously made an effort to do it.
Z (she/they): But I think that understanding that if you're going to play pretend for so long, eventually some of that is going to involve a very human feeling, even if you are spies. ussr spies
Ryan : Right, right, right.
Z (she/they): i yeah i just I think that i think that both of those both of the sisters bring a very valid point of like, do not try to guilt me with this. You're not my mom. you or You're not my real mom and you never will be.
Ryan : Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan : Yes, exactly.
Z (she/they): But also this very human aspect of like, you couldn't you can't fake making up whistles to each other. Like that's real, real.
Ryan : Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Z (she/they): yeah, I think both of them, um I'm really hopeful that these characters in some imaginary way went into EMDR or something to good Lord.
Ryan : Yeah. Yes. Yeah, they got a lot they got a lot of EMDR to practice, though, and that shit is tough. Boots. I don't think USSR assassins are ready for it.
Z (she/they): No.
Ryan : um
Z (she/they): no
Ryan : Shauna, what did you think of the family reunion? Because I feel like you're you have a... um You have your... ah The side of the balanced Libra that is coming out is not the...
Ryan : woo woo, this is beautiful. It's your, the other side is coming out. I feel like so far you've been kind of like um critical, but not like in a bad way, just like not in love with it.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): No, and I think that's fair. I feel like it was like, i felt like this movie was very, like, again, it's like Fantastic Four. like this what What a great Marvel movie. like what a marvel Like, what a Marvel movie.
Ryan : Right.
Shauna (she/her): Like, you know, and I think that's kind of been how I felt about a lot of them, that even, like,
Ryan : ah Sure, sure.
Shauna (she/her): It's not that I didn't enjoy it It's not like, man, I wish I had my two hours back. It's just, I think that there are ways in which it could be just a little bit better. And I want just a little bit more. And am taking a critical eye to these things because I do love them. I do want more positive things with women. And I want to see these great dysfunctional fucked up families and all that fun stuff.
Ryan : yeah I really can't get over Z's just full blown welcome
Z (she/they): Shut up.
Ryan : it's It's giving... Dark lady laughed and danced and lit the candles one by one.
Shauna (she/her): I,
Ryan : So there was something that we were just um talking through that really... I don't know, sort of re-illuminated itself to me. um The first of which being this idea of the youngest sibling being the cycle breaker, as we often are. um i know Shauna is an only... i can't are you an only
Z (she/they): I was for 10 years and then I had a brother. I don't know what that says.
Ryan : Okay. So you're the oldest, you're the eldest daughter, in the words of T-Swift.
Z (she/they): Eldest, Jesus, eldest slash, I feel like the only child mindset really kind of set in by 10.
Ryan : Not that I give a fuck.
Z (she/they): Ain't
Ryan : Yeah, that really must, like, from a developmental standpoint.
Z (she/they): fun?
Z (she/they): ain't it fun
Ryan : So, yeah, I mean, I guess I'll, I am the youngest, and I definitely feel like that is a um experience. You know, the parents that you, this is more about, like, actual real life, because these are not, they're real parents, whatever, but, like, the parents you get as the youngest versus the parents that the oldest gets are usually two completely different sets of parents.
Z (she/they): Good lord.
Ryan : And, Usually with being the youngest, like you have a lot less restrictions. And I feel like there's often, for whatever reason, like a different level of emotional um awareness um and or emotional attunedness.
Ryan : um
Shauna (she/her): Hmm.
Ryan : And that also could have been, you know, I had two older sisters and a very um
Ryan : emotionally, expulsive mom. So like i I was constantly kind of figuring out everyone else's feelings and how to keep them all happy. But like the cycle breaker thing was harder because I was emotionally attuned to all these people.
Shauna (she/her): Hmm.
Ryan : And so I feel like this Yelena literally like begging for them to care about her. Like that resonated with me in a way that is like, look, I did the, I unlearned the thing.
Z (she/they): Sure.
Ryan : I'm ready to be here with you all as adults and as a family and you hoes are not even fucking trying.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : And the difference between Yelena and me is that I gave up. But, um, you know, i think, um, That the other thing, and this is also kind of, I haven't really thought about this um until we were talking earlier.
Z (she/they): sure
Ryan : um And it's kind of emotionally vulnerable, so I don't know how much of this I'll actually keep in, but um I've been exploring a lot of my feelings around being adopted lately um in a more in-depth way and like learning about more of the experiences of other transracial adoptees.
Z (she/they): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : And there's something about that scene of the, you know, you're you're like, you're not my mom. You're not like all of those dynamics exist within adoptive families. And it's even harder when you don't look like a part of that family.
Ryan : And so there is this like almost express, like, I know I'm adopted. I know we're not blood related. but like, I love you like family. And in a similar vein with Yelena's like, I know it was fake, but like you were my parents and I am I still want you to be my parents.
Ryan : And I feel like as a person who has, actively moved away from my family my adoptive family that desire to still have regular fucking parents still hurts and like i still feel very much so like yelena in a lot of ways where i'm just like i i have both of those mindsets that you were talking about z and i think this
Z (she/they): And
Ryan : probably applies to more people than than adoptees. But like, there's one part of me that was like, you all wanted a kid and this was the kid that you got and you were not prepared to deal with that kid or love that kid how that kid needed to be loved. So here I am, this version of me that is independent and self-sufficient and I don't really feel the need to have a relationship with you all because we did the thing. You got me here, congratulations.
Z (she/they): Yang
Ryan : But then the other side of that is Yelena being like, But I also, we had a whistle. We had these things that actually made us family. Why can't you hold on to that?
Ryan : So um I don't think I would really was thinking that when I watched it until we start external processing.
Z (she/they): young
Ryan : Sometimes I don't need a therapist. I just need a backboard. um But yeah, thanks for letting me run that through because i that was, that, especially the two mindsets component of it, like that really is like a fluctuation on a day-to-day basis of being like, fuck these people. Why don't they love me?
Z (she/they): See, like I'm so proud your sibling dynamic, because like as the oldest sibling who i broke up with my parents last year and my younger brother, and it's like, i feel like I've broken some cycles and I've had to remove myself from it.
Shauna (she/her): Right? like
Ryan : Mm-hmm.
Z (she/they): So very much in the space of like, why are we pretending? Why why do we have to keep pretending When this, none of this is real. This is all just, we're doing this out of forced habit or we're doing this out of obligation.
Ryan : yeah
Z (she/they): Like none of this is real. Why do I have to be a part of it? And then someone saying like, it's because you're right. And it's like, no, I don't, I don't need that.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): So I'm glad that we each could have that sibling dynamic pop out at us.
Ryan : Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah. Well, and I also, I feel like Shauna, there was definitely something that was probably ah on the tip of your tongue. I don't know if you were going to say something, but I know that part of that probably resonated with you too.
Shauna (she/her): Oh, absolutely. I mean, as some, like in that terms of cycle breaker, like, you know, I was both the, like, only person for my family to go to college. Like I was like that cycle breaker.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): And I was, but I was also the like, you know, you know, became estranged from my family and step family and like had no contact, you know, when my father passed and like, yeah,
Z (she/they): no
Ryan : And the thing that I was kind of like sticking out for me though, is like something that a lot of us experience, especially like along the, the spectrum of transness and, and deciding to be fucking happy, deciding to do whatever it takes to be happy is like the ultimate fucking cycle breaker for people that come from toxic families, because
Shauna (she/her): Mm-hmm. Oh. Mm-hmm.
Z (she/they): Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Shauna (she/her): oh
Ryan : Not to just like swing at your family that I don't even know that well, Shauna, but like you could have just been miserable and stayed where you grew up and been another one of the people who are miserable in that area that you lived in.
Ryan : And like, I feel the same way. Like I was just reflecting with Anthony, my my lifelong best friend, about how... you know When we were freshmen in high school, he he called me a burnout.
Ryan : And like I really wasn't a burnout, but I was at that time really starting to spend more time with people that smoked weed. And as I like hit my ball 10 minutes But 14, you know it's and kind of an important developmental phase to figure out what kind of stuff I like...
Shauna (she/her): Hi.
Ryan : If I had not have had someone call me out, I would have probably not, i don't like, I don't know what would have happened. Maybe i would have stayed with those fucking loser friends that just got high in the basement, which is a loser-y thing to do when you're 14.
Ryan : When you're in your 30s, it's just spending time together.
Z (she/they): healthcare, community.
Ryan : That's just, that's just, that's community. That's community. but When you're 14, it's slightly problematic.
Z (she/they): Truly.
Ryan : um Any other thoughts from that from that um general kind of family reunion Yeah. Okay.
Z (she/they): I have more of just like a logistical question of like, if this chemical alteration and this chemical subjugation is already tested and established enough to have widow agents everywhere, why is she still practicing on pigs?
Ryan : yeah
Z (she/they): Like, are you doing the same thing? Like, is this...
Shauna (she/her): I think it's less that she was, I think they just became her pets then.
Ryan : and
Shauna (she/her): Like they were like her, like they were her test like subjects.
Z (she/they): Why is she putting people on maize?
Shauna (she/her): Then she's like, well, no, I'm just a pig farmer.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): Like, the maize part what want to do.
Ryan : Now she's just a big...
Z (she/they): It's just like, why why are we running drills?
Ryan : Sorry, Z.
Z (she/they): Like, why are we running drills through a maze when we've got like a bunch of women without uteruses killing people all over the world?
Ryan : but
Ryan : Right. Flawlessly.
Shauna (she/her): Oh my gosh, that was Again, what a very, like, Anna was going to explain about the fallopian tubes. Like, it's just the, like, it just...
Ryan : Right, yes, yes. Let's make our dad uncomfortable by talking about our reproductive system.
Shauna (she/her): Well, and not just about our reproductive system, about how it no longer exists because of the fucking assassin program you put me into.
Ryan : A
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): So, no, I'm not, in fact, on my period because of the shit you did to me.
Z (she/they): and
Ryan : Yes.
Shauna (she/her): Like,
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): And you should know that.
Ryan : yeah
Shauna (she/her): like
Z (she/they): Oh.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, right, right.
Ryan : yeah
Shauna (she/her): And it was like, I loved that moment. I thought that was such a good, like...
Ryan : Very much so. for ah For all of those reasons, too. Like, they're...
Z (she/they): Okay.
Ryan : Again, not too... So I think one of the themes that is coming through pretty loud and clear from this movie is, like, kids should be meaner to their parents.
Ryan : Kids need to tell their parents the fucking truth.
Z (she/they): Oh, absolutely.
Ryan : And that moment...
Shauna (she/her): Doesn't go well in my experience, but, you know...
Ryan : yeah Right. Yeah. Let's let's be real. Like it's it doesn't always end with, you know, a reunited ah reunion over cute costumes. But um yeah, tell your parents they fucked you up, man.
Ryan : Tell them in detail.
Z (she/they): Uh-huh.
Ryan : Like, yeah, you know, they went inside and they scrambled it all up and then they yanked it all out. yeah Oh, you don't like thinking about that?
Z (she/they): I don't like...
Ryan : Maybe you should have thought about that. Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): I like,
Z (she/they): do like looking at how this... like It was a picture-perfect moment. They were all holding hands and getting into an aircraft at the end. But then we get to look at Thunderbolts again. Spoiler warning for Thunderbolts.
Z (she/they): And you get to see, like oh, they all became estranged again. And that felt like confirming to be like, oh, okay, great.
Ryan : Yeah. Yeah.
Z (she/they): It doesn't have to end with a pretty bow.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): It can end with, oh, he's at home...
Ryan : Totally.
Shauna (she/her): i was like
Z (she/they): his teeth with shampoo and hand soap or so whatever. And I'm also...
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): man, ADHD long-distance relationships are hard to maintain. Great point.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Like...
Ryan : Or complex relationships of people with complex PTSD.
Z (she/they): Oh, good Lord.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : it's a lot of...
Shauna (she/her): Just the neurodivergent generally.
Ryan : of
Shauna (she/her): like
Ryan : oh Attach and avoid all at once.
Z (she/they): Whew.
Ryan : Um, yeah, that's actually, that's a, that is a great point that I hadn't considered Z. Like, i I know that they make it clear, um, that, you know, they are estranged, but, um, especially like, I wonder what it would have happened.
Z (she/they): Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan : Well, so we'll get there, but, um, you know, what would have happened with Yelena and Natasha if Natasha hadn't died? Like, would they have even stayed close or would the same thing have happened with, you know,
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : them So um the the Romanov family decides to take down Dreykov. um And as because i I can't remember if I said earlier, Dreykov was in fact alive and his daughter that was in the explosion um
Ryan : survived and is hideously disfigured. um Oh, that's a really mean thing to say. she I'm going to run that back. And like... she had a lot of scars. She, she was scarred from, she was physically and psychologically scarred from, the explosion.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : But, um,
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : the they have this plan. They're going to do this thing. There's like a cute double cross moment where you think Melina has double crossed everyone, but it was all planned. And Melina does the ah face off moment where we find out she's actually Natasha underneath.
Ryan : um But yeah, so we, we have a lot of really cool, um, spy moments. like that It becomes a spy movie again for a second, where it's like, oh, who's on whose side?
Z (she/they): I guess...
Ryan : You know?
Z (she/they): like
Ryan : ah Surprise! um I'm looking and... is that Is there anything... Okay, so the Red Room is a floating fortress in the sky. the Widows are chemically mind-controlled, and Dreykov uses them as a global shadow army.
Ryan : Natasha confronts Dreykov, learning that Taskmaster is actually Antonia, Dreykov's daughter. He turned into a weapon after she was maimed in Natasha's bombing years ago.
Ryan : A clever trick lets Natasha bypass Dreykov's pheromone-based control, leading to a brutal fight and his eventual death.
Z (she/they): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : Um... And then Yelena gets a standout moment. She sacrifices herself to destroy the Red Room, surviving via a parachute in an explosive midair sequence. um So this there's the fight scene that we talked about where she severs the nerve.
Ryan : um That's the expression that it was. um i I severed the nerve. that's That feels like Jack Schaefer. Like that just sort of dry, cunty exchange. Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah, thoughts on this, on on kind of the the conclusion of the movie.
Shauna (she/her): Thank you.
Ryan : we We climax with them getting to the Red Room, and I don't even know if that's technically the climax. Like, is that...
Ryan : I guess the Red Room being just...
Z (she/they): And you can have more
Ryan : What? Did I have one? Is that what you're asking? Yes, I did.
Z (she/they): than You can have more than one if it's good. You
Ryan : Yes, that's true. Not in a plot, but... um
Z (she/they): you never know.
Ryan : Yeah, I mean, I guess really the climax, because nothing at all is downhill from the point where it starts to destroy the, where they start to destroy the Red Room. um But thoughts on, yeah, thoughts on the, um the them getting into the Red Room?
Z (she/they): Oh, literally.
Ryan : and I know Z took copious notes.
Z (she/they): that I spilled shit on. So lot of, and um,
Ryan : Diva! You said that earlier.
Z (she/they): i think i I think it's like a fun little plot device to bring those little mask things back. And again, if you rewatch it and like pause shit, you can see that early on when they are first getting there and she's putting her gun in the closet, you can see the masks and the wigs and everything behind her.
Z (she/they): So like it's little moments like that when you obsessively comb over it.
Ryan : Oh, shit.
Z (she/they): And I'm glad other people did it for me. um
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): It's just fun to see those things sprinkled in because they've already like established that they have that tech previously in other properties. so It was like, oh yeah, that face thing. so
Ryan : Yeah, wait, what else did they have it in? Do you remember what that was in?
Z (she/they): It was one of either the Avengers or...
Z (she/they): Or it wasn't an Iron Man movie, but it was Black Widow using it. She just like peeled it off.
Ryan : Yeah, it was super kenti.
Z (she/they): um Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shauna (she/her): You know
Z (she/they): It looks even better now. So grateful for that.
Ryan : Yeah. So... She... she severs the nerve. Like they this is the second or third time that Natasha has played the victim in order to advance her agenda. So it happened in the Avengers where she gets all the information out of Loki.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : It happened in this one. And I feel like it's definitely happened in another one before. um But I also love that plot device. I love, um,
Z (she/they): Yes.
Ryan : people playing on other people's um assumptions and kind of thinking ahead of that, like out thinking that person, like I knew that you thought you were going to be able to fucking get me riled up and that we would fight over it.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Z (she/they): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : Like I knew that you thought that you would still matter to me.
Z (she/they): Mm-hmm.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Here's the gag. You don't. And you're too much of a bitch to break my nose. So I have to do it myself. Like,
Z (she/they): Exactly.
Ryan : That was fucking great. I loved that part. I loved the conclusion of that whole scene. And essentially that is the climax of the movie.
Ryan : Like she is destroying all the records and stuff.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : um But yeah, thoughts on, thoughts on that part.
Z (she/they): One of the points that i came across was that at the beginning of the movie, when she's in her little Heidi place before the gas or the engine runs out, she's watching a Bond movie.
Shauna (she/her): Thank you.
Z (she/they): And one of the things that we love in Bond movies that the villains just like tell you their whole plan at the end.
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): And so then, which is really funny to think about. She's a spy watching a spy movie. So like we love narcissism.
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): Um,
Ryan : Right.
Z (she/they): So I really enjoyed that of like, just like a Bond villain, he's like revealing everything right before she gets to use it against him. So thank you for your cooperation.
Ryan : Yeah. Genius. Yes. Shauna, do you have any thoughts on the the sort of wrap up of the this part?
Shauna (she/her): No, like, I think it was fine. Like, it was, like, I, like, yeah, like, I was, like, it was just, not particularly, like, I thought it was good.
Ryan : two
Ryan : it didn't It didn't stand out much to
Shauna (she/her): Like, I liked the edit. Like, I thought it was all kind of, like, all right, I appreciate it as they were getting there and, you know, seeing the Widow Army.
Ryan : Yeah. I do love a choreographed um femme fight scene. So um when Dreykov needs the...
Z (she/they): Absolutely.
Ryan : ah When Dreykov is like trying to... and don't know. like how does How do the widows all get summoned on her?
Shauna (she/her): The Kill Bill, like, dee, dee, dee, like that sound plays, and then they go,
Ryan : Yeah. And it's just like 100 widows versus Natasha.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : is that before after her fight scene with Dreykov? After.
Z (she/they): After. Because now he gets out of there is because he like sicks the widow's owner.
Ryan : After.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Z (she/they): her
Ryan : Yes. And then they shoot down the plane with Draykov in it and they're like, we got to see this mothercker motherfucker die.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : um
Z (she/they): The one thing I did love, I love a ring being used as a plot device.
Ryan : And we're really.
Z (she/they): So I love that like he had that little cunty ah signet that he had to like use to swipe open. And so I love it when a little ring is used to be
Shauna (she/her): so
Z (she/they): Hi.
Ryan : You just like accessories.
Z (she/they): That's exactly it.
Ryan : Say your femme without saying your femme. I just love accessories.
Z (she/they): It's that.
Ryan : I can't help it. um Yeah, so we're kind of like, you know, being very nonchalant about the the ending of the movie. And I think that is largely because the best parts of the movie have been what we've discussed, which are like the dynamic within the family, the introduction of these characters, and ah us getting like
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): so
Ryan : ah proper, um I guess, goodbye, but like a proper showing of what Black Widow is really capable of. Like she did some cool shit in the other movies and she plays an important role, but it's the Steve Rogers and fucking Tony Stark show.
Z (she/they): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : And for her to get this kind of um
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : ah ah attention and excellent way to...
Shauna (she/her): Mama,
Ryan : tie things together felt really really good like i just i liked i liked the movie overall um and the it's just the the fight scenes and shit were cool and the explosions were cool but it it wasn't this super impactful movie overall other than the things that we've discussed so i guess it is impactful
Z (she/they): yeah
Shauna (she/her): know were talking about. Yeah. and, like, thinking back to, like, the epilogue scene with Elaine Bennis showing up and telling, like, because...
Ryan : Oh, wait, I have to talk about that for a moment. um Because you said Olean Bennis. um And I don't know who that is because I've never watched Seinfeld before. But it's it's Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
Z (she/they): Julia Louis-Joliffe's
Shauna (she/her): Sure figured it out.
Ryan : And i promise you, it's one of my favorite moments of mine and Ryan Smith's friendship. we make We reference it often. Because this was the first appearance of Valentina Allegra de Fontaine.
Ryan : and so we, no one had any idea that she was being entered into the MCU. And so after, you know, the red room is destroyed uh,
Ryan : ah Natasha gets her quad jet and her blonde Bob moment to go into hiding.
Shauna (she/her): Okay.
Ryan : And she's wearing the tactical vest that, uh, Yelena bought and thought was a really cute fashion moment, which is ah a moment we kind of skipped over, um, where she buys this. It's her first piece of clothing that she but ever bought herself. It's a big deal.
Ryan : Um, But we get this post-credit scene acknowledging that Natasha has died and Yelena is heartbroken in a very fucking cute, almost Cher Horowitz-esque outfit.
Ryan : um And then in comes Valentina Allegra de Fontaine with the nose-blowing scene, which is really funny. um But at the same exact time, Ryan Smith and I...
Ryan : crossed our arms across each other. Like my right arm went out and his left arm went out. And we both said, is that Julia Louis-Dreyfus? In the exact same fucking cadence.
Shauna (she/her): Thank you.
Ryan : Like could not have planned to be that.
Z (she/they): Oh,
Ryan : But like it was instantaneous. I fucking love you, Ryan. If you are listening to this, I love that moment. ah So yes, Elaine Bennis slash Julia Louis-Dreyfus gagged us all.
Z (she/they): truly.
Ryan : Gagged us all. That was a gag.
Z (she/they): eighty
Ryan : Okay, sorry, Shauna, so you, yeah. go ahead.
Z (she/they): And she got a dog and ah the dog's name is Fanny, which was the fake ID that insert character's name. I can't remember gave Scarlett Johansson at the beginning of the movie.
Ryan : Oh, yeah, the match, yeah.
Z (she/they): think that was horrible.
Ryan : Who got, wait, who got it? Oh, Yelena gets a dog?
Z (she/they): Yelena got a dog because they talked about, yeah, because she is getting out of the truck. She goes, come on, Fanny. And then this little, think it's like a cocker spaniel hops out. He's cute.
Ryan : But we don't see that dog ever again. Fanny in Thunderbolts?
Z (she/they): No. Bye, Fanny.
Ryan : Diva down, huh?
Z (she/they): Leave it down.
Ryan : Diva down. Okay, so Shauna, you were saying Elaine Bennis, you love that moment.
Shauna (she/her): Well, yeah, know or at least... Because A, I didn't realize that was like the character's first appearance, like which is fascinating that they would just do that again without any sort of exposition.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): I'm not saying that that's a theme or criticism of mine, but moving right along.
Ryan : Yep. Yep.
Shauna (she/her): so But with that being said, like, I was like okay i goes like, all right, she's like an assassin for hire.
Ryan : Mm-hmm.
Shauna (she/her): like that already She's working for this person. And then like I was like, oh, that explains why Yelena shows up in Hawkeye.
Ryan : Mm-hmm.
Shauna (she/her): Okay.
Ryan : It does. is It explains why Yelena shows up in Hawkeye.
Shauna (she/her): But also it kind of doesn't really, like, really, like, okay, one of the Avengers, like, one of her fellow Avengers did it, and she's like, all right, I get no follow-up from anyone. Like, she's like, nobody's gonna come in and check on her. like for Like, I was like, wow, it's like, fucking, are we sure this is in our world? Because that government's very shoddily run.
Shauna (she/her): Like, there was no fucking check-in.
Ryan : Well, I also...
Shauna (she/her): Like, come on.
Ryan : I, are you talking about check in with Yelena?
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, but like, why are the Avengers like, oh my gosh, like, you know, again, Clint knows that fucking she has a sister and like talked about her like travails and adventures. Like that was like some of the things they connected on.
Shauna (she/her): Like, why wouldn't you then be like, oh shit, maybe I should reach out to her.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): What a great idea that would be. Oh, well, better adopt this 22 year old.
Z (she/they): I think she was like, it wasn't implied that she was still like a spy.
Ryan : Hey, what?
Z (she/they): So they wouldn't know. I think Clint was the only one who knew about her. I don't think she told everybody.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): I think that's probably, that is probably actually the truth of it.
Ryan : Yeah. Shauna is just...
Shauna (she/her): I just,
Ryan : Shauna does not like this movie.
Z (she/they): don't know.
Ryan : She has nothing good to say about it.
Shauna (she/her): it's no one, like, I don't, like, i just, it's, i just, i walk away with the same feeling I honestly felt before the movie of, I don't understand why this existed, and I feel like it could have just been a different, better movie.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Like,
Ryan : Sure, it could have been about yo it could have just explicitly been about Yelena.
Shauna (she/her): my
Z (she/they): yeah
Ryan : What if we found out what Yelena was up to?
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Absolutely. You mean a character that I love and has a great future and isn't already dead at the time of this movie's publication? What a fascinating idea.
Z (she/they): Well, when you put it that way.
Ryan : Great.
Shauna (she/her): Great point.
Ryan : Yeah, that is, you know, as you're saying that, that would have been a much cooler, and we still could have gotten some information about Black Widow. like we could have This would have been a really interesting,
Shauna (she/her): Email.
Z (she/they): Thank you.
Z (she/they): yeah
Shauna (she/her): and
Ryan : I was going say White Widow movie because I think that is what her call sign is. um
Shauna (she/her): It is ah her call sign.
Ryan : and
Shauna (she/her): And I was like, yeah, her
Ryan : And I only know that because of Fortnite.
Shauna (she/her): her and Jason David Franks can hang out together.
Ryan : Yeah. um Or White Wade Wilson from Deadpool 2, which is one of my favorite bits when he says, I'm Black Tom Cassidy.
Shauna (she/her): Tom Cassidy.
Ryan : And he says, I'm White Wade Wilson.
Z (she/they): well well
Ryan : Sure.
Shauna (she/her): little better and i walk away feeling like wow there's some good things there's some real like ah you there's some real positives here and not the least of which is woman-led vehicle in marvel and i think for that reason as a big fan of that that it was where why i think you've seen me actually being a little more critical than i often am and like again it's like because i really am not usually like the critical one i'm usually very like no i like it like
Ryan : Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah.
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah. yeah
Shauna (she/her): But and
Ryan : That is a good perspective, though. like of There's a different level of buy-in when you know we have that that level of um attachment to the character or to you know like the what they're there for, the representation that they have.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah. Right. Well, I think that's where ultimately, I mean, like thinking about like Hawkeye is like another one that I was reluctant to watch, but ultimately really enjoyed because I think I really enjoyed the connection and the human elements and the way that they really humanized Clint and in turn helped him find redemption through ah Kate.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): And then Kate getting to connect with, you know, Yelena, how Kate Bishop and Yelena
Ryan : Kate
Ryan : who?
Shauna (she/her): Wait, what? Clint?
Ryan : Who? who Who are you talking about?
Shauna (she/her): Clint Byrne.
Ryan : Who does Haley Steinfield play?
Shauna (she/her): Isn't it... Wait, wait. Isn't it Kate Bishop? Kate Bishop.
Ryan : Yeah. Thank you. It's Kate Bishop.
Z (she/they): the
Shauna (she/her): Kate Bishop.
Ryan : You have to say it like fucking Yelena.
Shauna (she/her): Kate, do you not like my macaroni and cheese? I think it's very good. I put a little extra spice in there.
Ryan : Very good. Yes. Yeah, while while our Russian accents are
Shauna (she/her): do you have one spoon? One spoon, Kate Bishop?
Ryan : leave
Shauna (she/her): Kate Bishop.
Ryan : ah While our Russian accents leave a lot to be desired, Yelena, Florence Pugh does a great job, and specifically the way she says Kate to Bishop throughout the entirety of the show, and she has to say first and last name.
Shauna (she/her): Bishop.
Shauna (she/her): It's so good.
Ryan : um
Shauna (she/her): Haster, she's a first, you know, but some people are just first and last name people.
Ryan : Carrie Gibbons.
Z (she/they): Here 4.
Shauna (she/her): Carrie Govins, Michael Bartolucci, like same, like I got it.
Ryan : Okay, anyways, so let's wrap it up. um Overall ratings, feelings, Shauna, on a scale of one to ten, ah no, on a scale of one to four, with four being the best, what do you rate it, Shauna?
Z (she/they): four
Shauna (she/her): 2.5. It's above average. Okay.
Ryan : Okay.
Shauna (she/her): it's above and average
Ryan : And Z, yeah. um Z, what's your what's your general feeling and your ratings?
Z (she/they): I'm really hung up on the scale of four.
Ryan : Well, because phase four, you know,
Z (she/they): I guess. um
Ryan : fine, one to five.
Z (she/they): Thank you. It makes it so much better for my brain.
Ryan : It does.
Z (she/they): i
Ryan : It does. So, Shawna, you have to reevaluate unless you're keeping it at 2.5, but, okay. Shut up.
Shauna (she/her): No, I'd say three then.
Ryan : Shut up.
Shauna (she/her): and i didn't bump it up to a three on this five-point scale.
Ryan : Okay.
Ryan : ah da
Shauna (she/her): Likewise a six on a ten-point scale.
Ryan : shut
Shauna (she/her): Of
Z (she/they): Well, thank you.
Shauna (she/her): seriously
Z (she/they): I had questions, so thank you for working that out for me. I was going to say three five, but that feels a little harsh with how much I've been talking about how much I appreciate this movie.
Ryan : um Got your back.
Shauna (she/her): course.
Z (she/they): So maybe like a four.
Ryan : Yeah.
Z (she/they): But also, I just feel like a seal with a bucket at this point, just clapping my little fins, and I'm just going to gobble up whatever Marvel swill throws at me.
Ryan : And so overall.
Ryan : T, same.
Shauna (she/her): Right, like but I enjoyed it like i enjoyed the Fantastic Four. Like, and again, that's not a bad thing, like...
Ryan : Yeah, I also think.
Z (she/they): Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan : you But you had no stakes in Black Widow. Like, the Fantastic Four was first...
Shauna (she/her): I didn't. Neither did Black Widow! She was dead! That's the problem!
Ryan : mr Well, right, exactly. So watching it posthumously versus Fantastic Four, which is supposed to be leaving us...
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, which is the only way to watch it. It's like, gosh, I wonder what happens in this historical document. Huh.
Ryan : Right, right.
Shauna (she/her): Huh.
Ryan : But it seemed like it it it um rate resonated with Yuzi and in it it left with some overall good feelings.
Z (she/they): Yeah, I think probably is just like, I've only really been watching horror movies lately. So it was like an opportunity to dip back into like fantastical superhero shit.
Z (she/they): So I think that in combination with spending most of my week in therapy really made me a little bit more contemplative rewatching it.
Ryan : yeah
Z (she/they): I also think didn't help that like, I haven't rewatched it since I watched it.
Ryan : Sure, sure.
Z (she/they): i think we did skip the theater for this one. So I think, yeah, only really watching it once at home, it was nice to dip back into it with ah brain synapses that seemed to be firing in all cylinders.
Ryan : Yeah, um I definitely, i I think I would say the same thing. i and it made me, I enjoyed watching it.
Z (she/they): Yeah.
Ryan : i enjoyed watching, rewatching it. um And talking through this the family dynamics throughout were very poignant to me. Like, so I think maybe that's the headspace I'm in, but I think I even remembered feeling the same way when I saw it in the theaters.
Ryan : um But that is largely because of my own stuff that I kind of talked about earlier, but, Um, I think I would give it on a scale of five. I think I would give it like a three, seven, five, maybe, maybe upwards of a four.
Z (she/they): okay
Ryan : It's, it's, but it's good.
Shauna (she/her): Okay.
Ryan : To me, it's a good movie. Um, it is not the the scale of five makes it hard. So who knows if we'll continue this.
Shauna (she/her): Is it better than Guardians of the Galaxy 2? Hmm.
Ryan : So fun fact, I have fallen asleep during gardens of the galaxy to more than once. And, um,
Z (she/they): Work.
Shauna (she/her): o
Ryan : I've only seen, I think I've only seen it three times. Like, no, let me rephrase that. I think I've tried to watch it three times and I've only finished it once.
Shauna (she/her): Okay, okay.
Z (she/they): more
Ryan : So, yeah. And also, ew I don't, it's led by a boy. So it is it is better because of girls.
Shauna (she/her): No, like, well, but that's what I'm trying to think of, like, where it stands in, like, the Marvel. Like, I was, like, trying to think of, like, what, like, level of movie it is. Like, is it better than Thor of Love and Thunder?
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): Obviously, but that's apparently the worst Marvel movie ever made.
Ryan : Everything's better than Thor Love and Thunder except for Secret Invasion. Yeah. Yeah, we need to develop...
Shauna (she/her): Even though Thor is probably alive during it. We'll find out.
Ryan : Shauna, we'll revisit our Phase 4 ranking system on a scale, and we'll we'll have it we'll have it better prepared for next time.
Shauna (she/her): i
Shauna (she/her): Okay. Okay. Alright.
Ryan : But final two questions...
Shauna (she/her): Make a Pedro Pascal's wager.
Ryan : Uh, sure. I think I'm supposed to get that. I don't get it. I'm sorry.
Shauna (she/her): don't know Pascal's wager? Okay. Is that...
Ryan : No, that sounds kind of familiar. Is it a philosophy thing?
Shauna (she/her): It is a flights of philosophy thingy. Like, yeah. Yeah.
Ryan : Like the prisoner's dilemma. That does sound kind of familiar.
Shauna (she/her): it's It's basically like believing in God.
Ryan : Um, anyways.
Shauna (she/her): It's like, because like the best case scenario is nothing happens if you don't believe in God and you're right versus like the best case scenario if you believe in God and you are wrong, then not the same thing happens as like the best case of the other way.
Ryan : Sure. Right.
Ryan : Sure, sure, sure, sure. Oh, yeah.
Shauna (she/her): It's like the whole point of it.
Ryan : The worst case scenario of not believing in God and being wrong is that you go to hell. The worst case scenario of believing in God and being wrong is that nothing happens.
Shauna (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Ryan : Got it.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, that you're just a fucking asshole everyone, but neither here or there.
Ryan : sure
Shauna (she/her): He didn't he didn't take that into account of in the equation.
Ryan : Right. So um what piece of memorabilia would you steal from this movie?
Shauna (she/her): Obviously the fucking jacket with all the fucking pockets.
Ryan : Yeah, totally.
Shauna (she/her): Without a doubt. Slam dunk.
Ryan : Yes. Ah-ha, Z. The shot is so self-discipline.
Z (she/they): on It would probably be either the little ah Alexi action figure from the prison or Dreykov's ring really resonated.
Shauna (she/her): Mmm.
Shauna (she/her): Mmm.
Ryan : cunt yeah um i think i would um i really like her all white suit i'm being honest like to be honest i love black widow's all white suit so i think that's really kind um maybe one of the pigs um and specifically david harbour's underwear that he's wearing in any of the movie yeah yeah leaving the prison
Shauna (she/her): Okay, okay.
Z (she/they): boom
Z (she/they): Leaving the present.
Ryan : No, the piece of memorabilia that I want is the bird's eye view or the fly on the wall perspective of him trying on the red guardian suit in the bathroom.
Z (she/they): that, that deleted footage.
Ryan : Yes, that deleted footage. So ah the final question of real hot nerd shit, who is the hottest character in this movie? I have a feeling we're all going to kind of land around the same places, but see who's the, who's the hottest character.
Z (she/they): I'm trying not to be a stereotype.
Ryan : Right.
Z (she/they): Ooh, the really, really tall prisoner who Alexi breaks his wrist.
Ryan : Yes.
Z (she/they): One.
Ryan : Nicely done. I believe his name is like Ursa. Cause I think there, I watched some, yeah, it's some fucking, you know, not new rock stars, but like something, one of those where they talked about how he was supposed, like that's a mutant character and blah, blah, blah.
Z (she/they): and but Okay, work.
Shauna (she/her): I think it is.
Ryan : It's like, okay, we don't have to
Z (she/they): I'll take it.
Ryan : Dumbledore's gay too. Okay. Got it.
Z (she/they): he
Ryan : Great. um which Shauna. Who's the hottest character?
Shauna (she/her): Yelena. I'm going to Yelena. Obviously it's close, but you know what?
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): That accent and just her attitude and
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): it's yeah
Ryan : And specifically the part where she's posing, where she's making fun of her sister and throwing her hair back and forth.
Shauna (she/her): right like right like she just does such a sense of humor and i don't again i don't want to go with but like i was like i am guessing that it is probably her fun it's either fun or you're just going to cuddle and there's nowhere in between
Ryan : Yeah, yeah.
Shauna (she/her): like
Ryan : So it's either a good lay or not or just good knee.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, it's either a lot of fun or you're just going to be snuggle buddies on the couch together. And you know what? Both are a delightful night.
Ryan : Yeah.
Shauna (she/her): So...
Ryan : Yeah. She, um, uh, and nope, nevermind.
Z (she/they): Can't lose.
Ryan : Uh, I think mine is, I don't even know where I was going to go. i was just appreciating, um, the fact that, uh, sometimes the hookup is not the fun part. Like the, the post hookup is more fun. And I could see that with Yelena where it's like, Oh, we should be friends.
Ryan : I'm like, do you want like make fun of stuff?
Shauna (she/her): I just want to be friends with you. Yeah, no, that that actually probably checks out.
Ryan : Yeah. i want to be friends.
Shauna (she/her): Like, I think that's actually, and that's probably also her relationship with Kate Bishop.
Ryan : Zero sexual tension.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah.
Ryan : Yes. No. Well, I think she's trying to turn Kate Bishop out and then they try it. And Yelena just wants the chase. She just wants to know that she could fuck Kate Bishop and Kate Bishop will eventually let her fuck because Yelena is so hot and so charming.
Ryan : um And then Yelena is going to be like, actually, never mind.
Shauna (she/her): Yeah, I think if we if if we got a less beholden to foreign interest Marvel, i think we yeah them exploring that on story would be very interesting.
Ryan : And Keith will be all sprung.
Ryan : sure um yes um i'm obviously going with i'm fully stereotyping david harbour daddy my god what a man um and any uh other hopes for phase five um anything in this movie jump out you're like oh shit i got i really hope that this gets fleshed out further
Shauna (she/her): Like, I think there's a that that would be great.
Z (she/they): Absolutely.
Shauna (she/her): Gosh, I can't wait to see Taskmaster await.
Ryan : good night ah thanks for listening um you can find us on instagram at real hot nerd pod can follow your hosts on uh blue sky at helen pastels and at intuitive blurred um z do you have anything you want to promote or tell us other than um some deep insightful shit
Shauna (she/her): we
Z (she/they): Oof, world peace. No, that's it.
Ryan : yes baby
Z (she/they): That's at ah Be kind and ah watch things and have fun.
Ryan : Amen. Thanks for watching and listening, everybody. bye
