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So, About That Halloween Costume at Work…
17 Plays1 month ago
Halloween costumes can be a fun way to show creativity at work - but when those costumes play with gender, things can get complicated. In this episode, we explore what happens when someone dresses up as another gender in the workplace, and why it can be both affirming and harmful depending on the intent and impact.
We unpack the difference between dressing up as a specific person with respect versus mocking a gender through stereotypes or exaggeration. From “just a joke” to “deeply uncomfortable,” we look at the full spectrum of how gendered costumes land for different people - especially trans and non-binary employees.
We also talk about the fine line between drag, parody and genuine gender exploration, and why Halloween can sometimes act as a “permission structure” for jokes that reinforce bias. Together, we offer practical ways to check your intentions, get feedback, and ensure your costume choices align with a respectful workplace culture.
Whether you’re planning a costume contest, managing a team or just deciding what to wear, this episode helps you navigate gender, expression and inclusion during the spookiest season of the year.
Key themes: workplace inclusion, gender expression, Halloween costumes at work, trans and non-binary inclusion, respectful workplace culture, and diversity and belonging.
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Transcript
Introduction to Gender in Focus Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Gender in Focus podcast. I'm El and each week I get to ask Kai Scott, the president of TransFocus Consulting, all the questions you have ever wanted to ask about trans and non-binary people in the workplace and in the wider world.
00:00:18
Speaker
There definitely is a critique out there that pop people are being too sensitive, Right. And that this is really just for good laughs. If people have experienced kind of time and time again, ah people making comment, negative comment about, or ah joking about, or laughing at certain aspects of their gender identity, it just, it then adds this additional layer When it comes to what you were saying about bodies, like that tends to be the the focus when you're dressing up specifically to do with gender. like you're making The joke is the gender of this person. Trans people's bodies are scrutinized so much. it like In pretty much every corner of the internet, on in like pretty much every every conversation is the scrutinization of trans bodies.
00:01:07
Speaker
Halloween's coming, and yes, we can have fun without being idiots.
Gender Expression vs. Mockery at Work
00:01:12
Speaker
But every October, someone in the office pushes it too far. This episode, we're asking, what's the deal with dressing up as another gender at work?
00:01:21
Speaker
Sometimes it's harmless self-expression, even empowering. Other times it crosses the line into mockery and stereotype. So where's that line and how is it different from drag?
00:01:32
Speaker
We'll unpack why this matters and how to keep creativity alive without punching down and what it really means to balance expression with respect, because a good costume should raise eyebrows, not HR flags.
00:01:45
Speaker
And I'm really excited to get into this topic with ah my esteemed colleague, El Hi. Hello. How's it going? Great, great, especially with Halloween just around the corner.
00:01:59
Speaker
i haven't really actually done Halloween in a minute, but I could no channel from many years ago. Yeah, i I can't say that I've ever experienced Halloween in an office space.
00:02:10
Speaker
So maybe we should do a transfer this Halloween. Should we? Okay, there you go. A reason for all this. Dress as each That would be great. Oh, now we're talking. I'm kind of not anxious about this episode, but we haven't even begun and I can already feel the eyes rolling a little bit at this when it comes to this and and sort of, I don't know, we're not really discussing what people are getting up to in their private lives and in private parties, but this is more, this is specifically about workplace settings,
Respecting Diversity and Costume Impact
00:02:42
Speaker
right? And what's kind of acceptable.
00:02:44
Speaker
And so, i know i can I know a lot of people would look at this and be like, it's just a joke. It's just a bit of fun. Like, why are you being the fun police? But what might feel like a joke to one person is quite differently received by another person. And so I guess that's where I wanted you to start.
00:03:01
Speaker
Sort of what is the problem when it comes to this sort of specifically in a work context? Yeah, it's so important to just pause. Again, we're not trying to police anybody's expression, but there's considerations, especially in a workplace where, like you said, there's diversity of experiences, you know, and understandings and and whatnot.
00:03:23
Speaker
And typically when we're talking about an office space, there can be ah space provided at least on one day for folks to dress up. um Sometimes workplaces provide guidance, other times they don't. So you're kind of guessing and, uh,
00:03:41
Speaker
you know, people can decide to dress up as another gender. So say they're a man and they decide to dress but dress up as a woman or vice versa, or perhaps as a non-binary person, or even a trans person.
00:03:55
Speaker
ah So what is this acceptable? What are the problems? When is it getting um kind of out of hand? ah Typically, if it's done with respect and reference towards someone, especially if it's ah um like an actual person or maybe even a character within a film or um cartoon series or whatnot,
00:04:20
Speaker
And you're really focused on the individual in terms of who they are, their personality, what their gifts are, you know, you know whatever, with the kind of really understanding them and wanting to showcase that.
00:04:33
Speaker
That is probably on the better side of things versus the kind of hyper fixated on at one or more aspects of that gender and kind of stereotyping them, whether it's how they express themselves in ways that are kind of either stereotypically feminine or masculine, ah or ah emphasizing, overemphasizing certain body parts that can also come into the, in play.
00:05:00
Speaker
And that just really um kind of ah puts down what it it means to be that gender. And it makes a mockery of it. And that is on the other side of the spectrum of the more problematic side.
Halloween and Safe Gender Exploration
00:05:16
Speaker
So you've mentioned to me before that some people use Halloween as a sort of tool to experience or explore, express their gender identity, maybe in way like it's something that they haven't been able to do. And so this is like a perfect almost cover, I guess, to be able to explore that in some way.
00:05:35
Speaker
And so where's the line with that? and and why why does this complicate things a little bit? Yeah, so it's not just about saying blanketly, no person can dress up as another gender.
00:05:49
Speaker
ah and Because there could be nuances and complexities, particularly around somebody who is not out yet, or is even exploring what gender means to them and how they want to express themselves and who they are fundamentally.
00:06:06
Speaker
I certainly remember playing with aspects. Of course, it was very subtle. Probably nobody could discern it except for me. I thought I was really going out on a limb.
00:06:16
Speaker
um But that Halloween hat provides the avenue for expressing in a different way without raising you know questions or, quote, concerns. right you know There's all these weird things that happen when people show up in a different gender expression.
00:06:33
Speaker
or express themselves in a different way from how they have in the past. And so Halloween affords them the possibility of just trying that on and seeing how it feels for them and had their connection to that expression, ah whether it feels authentic or perhaps it's off or maybe they need to adjust or, you know, so that can be a really powerful moment of being with other people in that expression.
00:07:00
Speaker
And so really it's not about shutting it down entirely. It's just providing some parameters for it to be done in a respectful way, in a way that is not, you know, making fun of of any particular gender ah while also allowing people to explore if this is something that they want to do more long-term.
00:07:22
Speaker
I want to go back to something you said and you just said it again then and I don't really know what my question is here but it's more that a couple of times you've said about not making a mockery or or understanding that other people have different experiences to you and I don't know what my question is beyond exploring emotional um intelligence because that can be something that people could roll their eyes up ah a little bit just like oh it's not that big of a deal like right people have different experiences we all have different experiences it's not that big of a deal Why is it important to actually think about this on beyond you having fun scale?
00:07:59
Speaker
Like it's not just you in an office. it's It's everybody is there and everybody has to do that job. So collective yeah experience. Absolutely.
Stereotypes in Jokes and Costumes
00:08:08
Speaker
ah yeah, I appreciate that question because, you know, defining things carefully and and precisely can make things helpful for folks. Right.
00:08:18
Speaker
um And there definitely is a critique out there that, um people are being too sensitive, right? And that this is really just for good laughs and, you know, where's your humor?
00:08:30
Speaker
And this is echoing a bit of what we talked about in an episode on joking about trans people. And so very similarly, when it comes to gender, if people have experienced gender,
00:08:43
Speaker
kind of time and time again, ah people making comment, negative comment about or ah joking about or laughing at certain aspects of their gender identity, whether they're trans, non-binary or cisgender, it just, it then adds this additional layer and almost permission structure for this to continue to occur and maybe even be at a heightened state within ah the context of Halloween. It just kind of is like licensed to to continue what is already there. And it just adds more burden to folks and even maybe extra burden because this is you know kind of just um paraded out there to be like, isn't it funny that you know x Y, and z I'm trying to think of a good example just to make this more concrete, but ah for some reason, my mind is blinking um where, you know isn't it funny that um you know feminine expressing people
00:09:42
Speaker
you know, weight gesture with their hands. And isn't that ridiculous? And rather than being like, this is like a wonderful part of being, you know, more feminine.
00:09:53
Speaker
And why isn't it celebrated? And, or maybe not even celebrated, just it is, you know, rather than highlighting it and you know, dragging it through the mud.
00:10:05
Speaker
ah and for somebody to think that that's okay to have as part of a costume and then to perform that aspect in a way that says that they think that's silly, other than actually something genuine as part of somebody's expression, no matter what their gender is or who they are. So, I mean, that's one small example. There are bigger ones where you know, especially when it comes to body, like a man, you know, you know, women's costume that is more feminine ah with big boobs, you know, let's go there. That's, that's, that's just like people, it's almost childish to like focus in on that. And then,
00:10:49
Speaker
ah kind of reinforce standards and expectations or even make fun of those body parts or sexualize them or whatnot, right?
00:11:00
Speaker
Especially within the context of work that could be very difficult for somebody to see and experience, especially if they themselves have those those body parts, right?
00:11:11
Speaker
who Yeah. One of the things that always do, because I am a killjoy, like in a quite a lot of settings, i I like being a killjoy sometimes. And so one of the things i will always ask is like asking someone to very clearly lay out what the joke is.
00:11:28
Speaker
If they say it's just a joke. to get them to explain in detail what the joke is and who the butt of the joke is. And that usually can get you to understand why it's a bit inappropriate. Because if you, for example, i and knew or somebody here in Canada who dressed up as a trans woman um for a halloween party and they were like it's just a joke it's just a fun joke and so like a conversation where i was like okay what's the joke tell me the joke and then it sort of unpinned and then they felt really awkward it's like okay if if that is the joke and really understanding what your joke is and maybe it's a bit more layered than even you recognize
00:12:07
Speaker
Well, especially since the the when people dress up as trans women, they're doing it in a way that is trope, that uses tropes that are also mirrored in media. Like this isn't just a one-time thing. That's a thing yeah I think that's important to underscore.
00:12:28
Speaker
This is a repeat thing. of something that happens so regularly and is so cavalier throughout society. And then it's just like amped up for Halloween um and put on display too, in a way that if someone is a trans woman themselves or as a loved one of a trans woman, like you you name it, it's just like, oh my gosh, this is what you think of of trans women.
00:12:54
Speaker
Yeah. And usually very narrowly defined. um Yeah. And usually quote, kind of missing the mark, like I'm heavy air quoting here, like in terms of like, they they aren't really women, because yeah they don't look like them.
00:13:12
Speaker
And we have a very narrow way of defining what a woman looks like and should act like and whatnot. So in not realizing the extreme difficulty of that lived experience, um I could go on.
00:13:26
Speaker
so And it's not to say that you can't dress up as a trans person too, right? I mean, That's a very egregious example of somebody else mocking while dressing up.
00:13:39
Speaker
Now, if, for example, you really are excited you really honor ah trans person in like ah maybe a famous trans person, you really like want to like any other kind of idol or some celebrity that you're excited about that makes a little more sense right but then again it's individually focused right presumably you're not dressing up as them specifically because they are trans you're dressing up as them because you like them being trans is just a thing about them it's not the reason they you're dressing up as them exactly presumably is that what you mean but yeah Yeah, exactly. By focusing and on who they are as an individual.
00:14:19
Speaker
Maybe there's some aspects that are about being trans, but that isn't the kind of driving force or right the butt of the joke, right? As like i an example, this might sound a little funny, but I really like Chase Strangio for the all the work that he's done, um specifically the first trans trans lawyer to go in front of the known trans lawyer who is ah going gone in front of the Supreme Court.
00:14:48
Speaker
And like, as a bit of a fan person of Chase, I was totally drunk. I'm such fan girl of Chase. Right? Absolutely. But then I'd be focused on the lawyer aspect of it, right? And like have maybe some like clever little book set of books that I would yeah assemble with like cheeky messages or what, you know, like but it's still about trans stuff, but it's not focused on him or, you know, physical aspects or right in any way making fun of him being trans. It's actually honoring the pivotal role that he's played, right?
00:15:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and I guess like, I don't know, when it comes to what you were saying about bodies, like that tends to be the the focus when you're dressing up as specifically to do with gender, like you're making, the joke is the gender of this person and the overemphasizing of deaf certain body parts.
00:15:44
Speaker
trans people's bodies are scrutinized so much. it Like in pretty much every corner of the internet, on in like pretty much every every conversation is the scrutinization of trans bodies. And so to help to do that just as a joke, it's just like, and you're putting somebody in a position where they're having to be fine with it because they're at work. So they have to pretend to be fine and they have to like sit next to you in your stupid office the whole day.
00:16:11
Speaker
So. Indeed. Right? It's so true. Yeah. Or if they bring it up as an issue, then now
Art of Drag vs. Halloween Costumes
00:16:20
Speaker
they're the problem, the person with the problem. Right?
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So ah want to talk about drag and what's the difference then between dressing up as another gender, ah and drag as a sort of form of art or performance or self-expression or why is that different?
00:16:39
Speaker
It's such an important distinction because sometimes people could be like, well, you you all do that in the queer community. why is it a problem for me to do? You all do that.
00:16:51
Speaker
Exactly. All the time. Right. right So yeah, the drag is is very distinct from dressing up ah as another gender as part of a Halloween. One of them, one of the distinction is time the amount of time, right? So one moment in time, one day, one evening of dress up versus somebody who is a drag artist who take on a persona and that they either carry for several years or for a long time, for all their life.
00:17:22
Speaker
ah It's like a commitment made to ah that performance. And they may have multiple personas, but it's all about that expression. um And oftentimes there is, although not for all drag drag artists, a critique of gender built into it.
00:17:42
Speaker
It's a way of highlighting, yeah, why do we have this here? And it doesn't make sense for us to be this way in our society um when they sometimes over exaggerate certain aspects of that gendered experience.
00:17:56
Speaker
um And it's meant to kind of free folks from that limitation or at least have people thinking about it and questioning it themselves. um There's also a community aspect to drag artistry in that Usually there is some sort of fundraising for queer and trans organizations or, you know, just tightly woven within community, um putting on spaces where people can come together and
00:18:26
Speaker
um you know, especially during tough times, I would say, particularly within the AIDS crisis and other crises that we've had, you know, that bringing of people together is paramount for survival, you know, like, there's no under, like, over exaggerating this, the importance of that within community.
00:18:45
Speaker
And so there's a lot more to it that is, you know, kind of affirming than it is about kind of making fun of. you There can be cheeky aspects to it. I'm not going to say that, you know, everything's cut and dry within drag. Obviously, there's many different types of drag and whatnot, but there's certain, and there can be very fair critique of drag for, um you know, emphasizing or a giving into stereot gendered stereotypes. So I'm not saying that, you know, drag is beyond reproach.
00:19:23
Speaker
But I would say it is very distinct from ah what somebody would do as like ah one-off, more flippant decision, um maybe not thoughtfully you know organized and just kind of putting it together.
00:19:40
Speaker
As someone from the UK where making fun of people is ah the way that we show love. And and there's ah there's a lot of love in banter and cheekiness and making fun of someone. And I personally love when someone will call out something that I'm doing that's ridiculous or like I enjoy that that process.
00:20:04
Speaker
For me, there's a line between Like if the person I'm making fun of is laughing as well, then I know this is exactly where the line is and exactly where I want to be. And when that crosses over to them feeling uncomfortable or feeling sad about it, I just feel like it's bullying and that is a horrible, but that there is a line. And so I guess I wanted to ask you about that. And how do you know whether something's okay? Like if you have this fun Halloween idea that you think is hilarious or funny or even just something that you want to do,
00:20:37
Speaker
but you're like, ooh, I don't know. I don't know if this is okay. How do you determine that? Yeah, that's so important to kind of check in with oneself. And I think the there's a kind of like a self-check-in then there's a check-in with other people.
00:20:52
Speaker
So check in with oneself to see like, okay, why do I want to do this? What's underneath this? Kind of some of the questions you had about um somebody dressing up as a trans woman.
00:21:03
Speaker
Like, you know, what is the joke? If there is the kind of... um ah playfulness to it what is that playfulness dependent on making fun of somebody um of their identity especially if it's kind of based on stereotyping rather than um you know something kind of original or creative or whatnot right ah and whether it's kind of celebrating somebody or um maybe more on the mockery side of the spectrum that can help kind of clarify things.
00:21:38
Speaker
um And then another thing is checking in with other people. So, you know, if you have a trusted person in your life, a family member, a friend, even a coworker to be like, you know, I'm thinking of this and, you know, showing visuals too, that can often make a difference. What, how the, the vibe of it and yeah to be like okay what's uh you know how does this land for that person and if they go oh i wouldn't do that you know it's not to say you shouldn't but might give more pause more time for reflection or if they're like in stitches maybe have the same humor right maybe you should ask a few people but um
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's just kind of, it's again, not intended to kind of police anybody. It's just more understanding that there's a diversity of responses and just being able to anticipate what those might be.
00:22:36
Speaker
And also I would say, at if you do decide to do the the the costume, um of an agent of another gender that during the celebrations themselves, as you're in the costume, being open to people talking to you about it too.
00:22:51
Speaker
So it's almost, you have to be a little bit more prepared for dialogue. Um, you know Whether it's like, oh I really like this, this is cool, or like, hey, this is impacting me in these ways.
00:23:04
Speaker
So not to be surprised or caught off guard by that, to be like, oh, yeah, you know I thought about that and you know was kind of on the fence as to whether or not to do it. And thank you for providing that feedback. um I'll keep that in mind. you know Or even if it's like really awful feedback or feedback that indicates it's an awful experience, maybe being ready to Either get out of that costume, go home.
00:23:30
Speaker
Just like, yeah, have a few backups, not like other costumes, or maybe if that's your thing, you should, but just be ready to pivot if if need be, right?
00:23:43
Speaker
Depending on what kinds of reactions you get. Yeah. It's a little bit more dynamic than perhaps other costumes. And maybe that's too much head or heart space or heart work, then maybe it's not for you to take on, right?
00:23:57
Speaker
What do you think this topic can teach us about inclusion sort of
Inclusivity and Respect in Dressing Up
00:24:01
Speaker
more broadly? this is We're just talking about one day, but like there are some things that can sort of be seen year-wide when it comes to this.
00:24:12
Speaker
For sure. This is a good kind of case study of how to be thoughtful. Maybe we don't need to think about things so intensively every single day, but there are moments where it can give us opportunity to think things through in a more concrete um and inclusive way that we just have to consider others.
00:24:36
Speaker
um I know that seems kind of basic, but, um you know, there's a like personal desire, but then there's also what lands on the other side for for other people.
00:24:47
Speaker
And just having a wider circle of people to think about as one is going forward. And it's not to say that it kind of says nothing at all, but it's also like a little bit more ah thought or preparation.
00:25:04
Speaker
to to do what one is personally drawn to doing ah or thinks would be funny or, you know, a laugh. So it's just that little extra legwork to think it through.
00:25:19
Speaker
One other thing I wanted to mention about Halloween that was just occurring to me, and this is a slightly different side of things than we've been talking about, but is just to reflect that or to to ah for us to reflect on the fact that many of the costumes are kind of marketed towards one gender or the other.
00:25:42
Speaker
um And how that can kind of reinforce stereotypes in a bit themselves as well. And that can complicate things for trans folks who some of them don't feel the need to or want to be limited in those ways.
00:25:57
Speaker
um And so that can make things difficult. If you think about like the stereotypical firefighter, like it's very much clearly or, you know, action figure hero or whatnot. It's always very clearly build towards a particular gender. I'll let you guess which one.
00:26:17
Speaker
Right. So, and you know, the nurse outfit, you know, like again, eye roll. So yeah, What ways can we break down ah stereotypes there as well for everybody's ability to um express themselves in a respectful way, right?
Guidelines for Respectful Costumes
00:26:37
Speaker
um Yeah, could that be something that, yeah, anyone could, like, or have marketing that indicates that it could be for any expression, a person of any expression.
00:26:48
Speaker
Great. We do have a resource. Can you tell us about that? Yes, this is a resource, again, geared similar to this episode towards workplaces and just some considerations, guidelines for how to dress up in a way that's not, you know, denigrating any gender or trans or non-binary folks and ways that you can have respectful costumes or, you know,
00:27:16
Speaker
think through some of the decision making around dressing up as another gender at work. And hopefully that helps not just for employers to provide clarity to their employees, but also for employees to to think through and hopefully feel more confident in the outfits that they choose to show up at work for Halloween.
00:27:37
Speaker
Great.
Closing Remarks and Halloween Wishes
00:27:38
Speaker
Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Kai. Thank you. Halloween. it Same to you for our non-dressing up Halloween. Exactly. We're playing it safe.
00:27:51
Speaker
Have a good one. See you later. Bye. Bye.