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What the World Gains from Trans People
19 Plays2 months ago
So often, we talk about trans and non-binary lives in terms of struggle, but that’s never been the whole story.
In this episode, we turn toward what rarely gets said out loud: the insight, creativity and gifts that come from living in ways the world doesn’t always expect or understand. We talk about authenticity that’s been fought for, empathy that runs deep and the innovation that comes from having to navigate systems that weren’t built for us.
This isn’t a silver lining narrative. It’s a reminder that trans and non-binary people have always brought something vital to the table - not despite who we are, but because of it.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Gender in Focus' Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Gender in Focus podcast. I'm El and each week I get to ask Kai Scott, the president of TransFocus Consulting, all the questions you have ever wanted to ask about trans and non-binary people in the workplace and in the wider world.
00:00:18
Speaker
Because there is understanding and there is this sort of like ah exploration, it also comes with not as much judgment with the things that you might find that aren't always comfortable.
00:00:29
Speaker
I just think there's so much compassion and and empathy empathy within the trans community.
Trans Contributions in Various Fields
00:00:35
Speaker
We have a front row seats to trans employees being leaders in the innovation process.
00:00:42
Speaker
We're continuously involved in kind of the next frontier of things. That's in the arts, that's in science, that's in tech, that's in finance, health, you name it.
Highlighting Trans People's Overlooked Gifts
00:00:58
Speaker
Inspired by Cornel West's powerful lecture, this episode shines a light on the often overlooked gifts that trans and non-binary people bring to the world. From deep authenticity and hard-won self-knowledge to creativity, empathy, and innovation, trans and non-binary people offer profound insights, especially navigating life being perceived as more than one gender.
00:01:21
Speaker
Join us as we celebrate the brilliance, resilience, and contributions of trans and non-binary communities, not despite, but because of our journeys. And as ever, I'm joined by Elle.
00:01:33
Speaker
Hello. Hello. How are you doing today? I'm doing so well. I'm in an obnoxiously good mood, ready to annoy everybody with it. So I'm feeling good. How are you?
00:01:44
Speaker
Oh, I love that. I think that's ah such a good description too, because just moments where your joy shines so beautifully for others to see, even if they maybe don't want to see it.
00:01:57
Speaker
That's almost my I'm in the mood where I'm ready to terrorize people who are not in a good mood. Like your your bad mood cannot break me, but I will break you. yeah and And that's how i feel why are you so happy?
00:02:12
Speaker
There's underlying reason. Yeah, the sun is shining. England women's team won the football. We've got the the Women's Rugby World Cup coming up. Everything's beautiful.
00:02:23
Speaker
Dang. yeah I love that sports is a key feature of that. Yeah, I'm having fun. I'm having a very sporty summer, living my dream. I'm having a great, great summer.
00:02:34
Speaker
I love that. I love that so much. I'm so glad. What a good topic ah to talk about in a good mood. gifts of trans people. I'm so happy about this. And you said in your intro that you were sort of inspired by Cornel West.
00:02:49
Speaker
And ah so I guess my first question would be, why has that
Cornel West's Influence on Viewing Trans Gifts
00:02:52
Speaker
inspired you? And like, how can you relate to sort of trans gifts from that? Because obviously Cornel West isn't talking about trans gifts in that topic.
00:02:59
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Indeed. So, Cornel West ah is a minister who, at least the latest I checked, works at ah Princeton University.
00:03:13
Speaker
although maybe works elsewhere also. um he has very decorated academic past.
Gifts of Trans and Disabled Communities
00:03:20
Speaker
ah And many years ago, this would have been post 9-11, he had a lecture called The Gifts of Black People in the Age of Terrorism, which, boy, what a title, right? And so he immediately clicked on it.
00:03:37
Speaker
And it was, I invite people to go and listen to it because it's very powerful. And he unpacks in great detail why it is ah you know these gifts of of Black people.
00:03:51
Speaker
And, you know, i found it very compelling, very interesting, very true ah that, you know, many people, especially white folks in America, were saying, how could anyone hate us and for who we are?
00:04:05
Speaker
And then, you know, Cornel West was like, well, just ask black people who have been hated for who they are, you know, how how they live
Self-knowledge and Resilience in Trans Identity
00:04:14
Speaker
with that. and how they navigate that and many different approaches and strategies and how that weaves into the culture and music and so much more. Right. So very cool, very powerful.
00:04:26
Speaker
Not cool that it happened, obviously, but that this there's a resilience there um that perhaps is not experienced by others. So that got me thinking. More broadly, you know, there's the gifts of of black people, obviously not those were a small subsection of the gifts, right.
00:04:43
Speaker
ah But then I thought, well, what are the gifts of trans people? What are the gifts of queer people? What are the gifts of disabled people, you know, on and on. And it kind of got me down this trajectory of of of thinking.
00:04:56
Speaker
So that was the inspiration where, you know, looking at the gifts of Black people um and very much connecting with what he was saying got me to thinking about it more broadly.
00:05:08
Speaker
And once I started to think about it, just all these answers kind of cascaded out of me. And there's so much positive, very powerful stuff. And I think it's important to have that as a counterpoint to the often discussed struggles which are very real very pressing and ever-present but not to the exclusion of some of the positive aspects of which gifts are one of them I guess well I don't want to ask you what are the gifts of trans people as a direct question because that's so massive right right
00:05:43
Speaker
I wanted to first start with maybe how does or or does it um being trans sort of invite that kind of strong self-knowledge or self-alignment and how that can propel out into the wider world and and how we can all benefit from that?
Trans Self-knowledge and Its Impact on Cisgender People
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah. So the self-knowledge is a very key part of many trans and non-binary people's experiences. So how do they know that they're trans and are non-binary and usually over a certain amount of time, whether, you know, months, weeks, years, decades come to that understanding. And so it's a very hard fought self-knowledge, often in the face of a lot of people interacting with that self-knowledge, um typically pushing back on it or questioning it or
00:06:36
Speaker
how could you know ah that about yourself? And so, and that continuously staying with oneself despite what might be happening around us is pretty profound.
00:06:49
Speaker
I know sometimes people may not be able to see that or appreciate the depths to which that has to, that self-knowledge is gained. But it is something there that if folks who don't have that experience, who are cisgender, who are not trans, could you know, appreciate that, have some curiosity around it to understand it better, may come to a better self-knowledge about themselves.
00:07:16
Speaker
Obviously, you know, if you're not trans, you're not trans. So it's not about that, but about your own gender identity, that there might be pockets of that, of one's gender that,
00:07:27
Speaker
because of social pressure or expectation, we might, as people who are cisgender might let go of, right? That is actually authentically them, but the they don't feel confident to hold on to it.
Courage and Authenticity in Conformity
00:07:42
Speaker
And so by talking and being in relationship with trans and non-binary folks who are open or want to tell their story of self-knowledge, That could very well benefit or be a gift to cis person who, you know, may have something where it's not on the scale of trans and non-binary, but it is still like a self-abandonment that happens in some aspect.
00:08:10
Speaker
We've, we asked the question in our education sessions, you know, what's your earliest memory or recall of knowing your gender? And that's when mostly cis audience shares tons of like heartbreaking stories about they wanted this and we're told no as a kid or maybe even teen or even adults.
00:08:32
Speaker
And then they're like, oh, well, maybe not. It's like, that's awful. You know, it's just like men who want to do ballet, ah women who want to play hockey, ah you know, people want to dress in a particular way, the list goes on and on. It's just like, wow.
00:08:50
Speaker
And so perhaps if we connected around self-knowledge and there was an exchange there, that gift that trans people have um could could benefit more than just trans people.
00:09:05
Speaker
Wanting to avoid the the trope of, oh, you're so brave, but ah there is an element of when ah you sort of have a world that demands conformity to be able to be authentic and to to show up with that authenticity can be really inspiring. I think no matter whether it's about your, it could be not even anything to do with gender at all. It could be something entirely different, but seeing somebody be so authentic in a world that demands that they are not is I think can be super inspiring and, and, and, and the resilience that that takes, like to to be able to keep going in the face of that. Yeah.
00:09:42
Speaker
The ability to be persistent, to self honoring, like if you've, if you've discovered such an internal truth, that others may not be fully able to understand and yet continue. Like that's, that's takes a lot to be able to do that. And you're right. It's, it's good not to say you're so brave, but yeah certainly if that's something where you're like, wow, I get as ah and a non-trans person, I get the gravity of that. And I too want to be that way on gender related stuff, non-gender related stuff. Like I could also take a page and,
00:10:23
Speaker
try to to do that more. And not in a way that, you know, it's like everybody else is wrong. It's just more of that I choose me. And hopefully others will join me, but ah that doesn't need to happen for me to to be true to myself.
Creativity and Playfulness in the Trans Community
00:10:38
Speaker
one of the things that I love a lot about trans community as a whole is how much playfulness there is and i think that maybe when we think of trans people there is so much focus on the negative and and the fight but I have found and I wonder about your experience here that there is so much creativity and playfulness and ah i'm I'm kind of curious about the way that creativity can sort of flourish when you've already broken out of one box and how that can extend further into and to the wider world. Yeah, absolutely. I love that framing too, because it's so true that once you get in touch with oneself and it doesn't quite fit what society expects or very much doesn't fit,
00:11:30
Speaker
that there's much more openness to possibilities rather than like figuring out what's expected and then trying to align with that. It's more kind of an attunement process yeah where you're like, oh, this thing feels very resonant and, you know, I'm going to continue to go towards it with an openness. And yeah, you're right, a playfulness. There isn't like, obviously some things are heavy, like I'm not saying, you know, we're just all gallivanting around, but you know there
00:12:00
Speaker
There are aspects of playfulness where it's like, oh, ah that's interesting. It surprises me, but i um I'm open to it i want to explore it. I want to understand it.
00:12:11
Speaker
um It's not a threat. It's more like inviting. And even amongst ourselves, when we're just talking within like amongst trans and non-binary folks, there's a kind of like a joking to it, right? A light ribbing. It's it's serious, but not overly serious, right?
00:12:31
Speaker
Like we can hold it as a treasured thing in terms of understanding our gender, but also not with an iron grip, right? Like it's gonna escape our hands somehow. Like it's...
00:12:43
Speaker
It's this living thing that gets to also grow too. So there's that aspect. But definitely the creativity where if we're not in prison of expectations, there's so much more that is available to us, if it makes sense, right? And so, yeah, there's a definite beauty to that and a lightness.
00:13:05
Speaker
One of the things that I found sort of in friendships and in relationships widely with trans and non-binary people is kind of on what you were saying about the expectation and and the sort of freeing yourself from the rigidity of that. I have found that my relationships are deeper with trans and non-binary people because there is a sense of figuring out what works for us, not what is expected.
00:13:30
Speaker
of us right so whether that's romantic or friendship or and any kind of relationship there is already this baseline of oh there kind of aren't any rules like there's this baseline understanding that rules are kind of in existence and we've grown up with them so we're aware of them but there's a lot more sort of flexibility and um conversation that can happen as well.
Building Deeper Relationships with Trans Individuals
00:13:53
Speaker
Like if if something isn't working, I just feel, and I'm not saying that all trans people are perfect, but I am saying that generally speaking, there just feels to me and my experience, at least this huge amount of flexibility and openness to seeing what does work and what doesn't work rather than just going forward with something because it's what we've always done.
00:14:13
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And I definitely can confirm, you know, especially how we relate to each other where there's a lot more openness to at hearing, you know, what does and does not work.
00:14:26
Speaker
Also, the there's a lot more kind of insightful, thoughtful questions, especially as I was trying to figure out my own gender. Some of it really puzzled me and, you know, people would share their own experience, but then ask thoughtful questions of mine wherever I was stuck.
00:14:43
Speaker
in a way that helped with the unlocking where i was like, oh, I never thought to ask that question, which then, you know, helps me figure out this whole set of puzzle pieces. And it was like, yeah, really, really beautiful to help each other out in that way, where it's not like that person knew what the answer was for me, but was one, they accompanied me in these kind of thoughtful questions that helped with unlocking.
Trans Self-analysis and Insightful Questions
00:15:09
Speaker
I also find that with that, because there has been so much self-analyzing through through the experience of being trans, that it also makes people very observant and therefore are really good asking questions.
00:15:22
Speaker
ah Honestly, I feel victimized by trans people at this point because of the questions that are being asked. And especially going through, ah you know, like a breakup at the moment, just the questions that people have asked me.
00:15:34
Speaker
to unlock like where I've been stuck and what patterns I've had. i feel like trans people are so great at that because they have experienced this self-analyzing to a really ah deep level that they are very clued up on what other people's patterns are and also then know what questions to ask. So very insightful, very annoying, but very insightful.
00:15:56
Speaker
But it's so it's so beautiful. And and because there is understanding and there is this sort of like ah exploration, it also comes with not as much judgment with the things that you might find that aren't always comfortable.
00:16:08
Speaker
I just think there's so much compassion and and empathy within the trans community. Yeah. And boy, does the world need that right now, right? Yes. If we had, you know, a degree of that for each other more generally, think that could really change things in a fundamental way. Yeah.
00:16:29
Speaker
So yeah, definitely have seen that as well because people who experience extreme amount of judgment, which because being trans or non-binary is pretty stigmatized even today.
00:16:41
Speaker
There is a lot of judgment. I would say pretty much anybody. I mean, there might be a few rare exceptions of people who have not experienced a vast amount of judgment. Some of it can be quite casual, right?
00:16:54
Speaker
ah People don't even really re realize what they're saying and are quite flippant about it. But that then turned around creates a compassion of not wanting to replicate that judgment for others.
00:17:07
Speaker
And in doing so can have an understanding, especially things that are outside of the norm, right? Yeah, and for sure. people struggling to figure their way through that, right? No matter the topic.
00:17:18
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I ah wanted to ask you about like what you've noticed through your own experiences of the sort of sort of tenacity or innovation of trans people.
Role of Trans People in Innovation
00:17:30
Speaker
Oh, yeah. So because of living outside of the norm, there's a lot of out of the box thinking that comes with that, too. Right. So whereas many people are like, well, that's just the way we do things, you know, no matter if it's like a workplace or place to volunteer or, you know, family dynamics. It's just sometimes people can get stuck in or even invested in the status quo.
00:17:55
Speaker
in a way that doesn't allow for us to see the other possibilities that exist. There's so many different ways of doing things. And it's not to say that there's something necessarily wrong with the status quo, right?
00:18:10
Speaker
Obviously that's been built up over time, lot of trial and error, right? So it's not discounting the status quo, but certainly there's a lot of room for innovation and a lot of sectors, industries rely on innovation,
00:18:24
Speaker
to continue to to build on and create companies and and whatnot. so But I find that in being involved in so many workplaces, we have front row seats to trans employees being leaders in the innovation process or in trademarking different or patented things or processes, you know, just they're continuously involved in kind of the next frontier of things.
00:18:50
Speaker
That's in the arts, that's in science, that's in tech, that's, you know finance, health, you name it. Even the things that we do at Transfocus, right? We're taking where the challenges lie and seeing what the opportunities are for reconfiguring, sometimes in big ways too, right? Some of it we try to do kind of quick fixes, but oftentimes ah in some cases it requires kind of a reformulation And that basis actually being helpful for not just trans folks, but people more generally. So there's that kind of driver.
00:19:26
Speaker
Often for trans folks, it can be a need-based driver or just out-of-the-box thinking, but it does can result in quite a bit of innovation. um And certainly, again, not every trans or non-binary person is patenting things left and right, right? But we do see kind of an over-representation in the innovation sphere of things.
00:19:47
Speaker
One example that I want to bring into the mix
Innovations in Healthcare Data
00:19:51
Speaker
is healthcare. care We often ask within healthcare context for sex at birth, thinking that will provide information for healthcare. care And I'm not saying it doesn't, but there's a lot of layers to it.
00:20:06
Speaker
It doesn't allow for the dynamicism, for the dynamic nature of the body. Body changes. And I think people in the disability community would tell you that, right? Amongst so many others. Whereas perhaps a more useful indicator would be what kinds of organs do you have? What kinds of hormones? Like being more specific to kind of specify what sex is kind of providing an umbrella for, but may be present or absent. Right.
00:20:38
Speaker
no matter the individual, but particularly trans and non-binary folks based on access to gender-affirming care. And that being useful to cis people too, because you know through cancer or life circumstances, having presence or absence of organs and maybe not wanting to talk about those things. Like somebody had a double mastectomy because of breast cancer,
00:20:59
Speaker
Maybe they don't want to remind their doctor every single time they go to the doctor's office, you know? Yeah. And just having that kind of registered. So there's just some ways of reformulating, innovating for for everyone's
Unique Perspectives in Quantum Computing
00:21:11
Speaker
benefit.
00:21:11
Speaker
There are certain fields, say for example, you know regular computing compared to quantum computing, where you know in the regular computing, it's based on the binary, right? Ones and zeros.
00:21:23
Speaker
Quantum computing, I will admit, I don't fully understand, but it doesn't use ones and zeros. Let's say that. Right. Okay. It's more of a networked approach, right? And there are many trans and non-binary folks in tech that given their own personal experiences related to gender are able then to translate that in a way that they're more effortlessly able to make those changes within tech, which is really exciting.
00:21:51
Speaker
So, you know, it is to some degree a bit easier for a non-binary person to be a part of quantum computing. Well, I'll take note of that. ah That was my new career path, obviously. There you go. Next up.
00:22:05
Speaker
Right. Perfect. Let's get on it. just Of course, obviously not all non-binary folks, but there's just something there that they're not kind of boxed in in a way that might be a bit more of a stretch for for folks who are cis.
00:22:22
Speaker
And certainly not saying that all cis people are clueless about quantum computing. Obviously, there's very important contributions from cis folks. so But there's something there. And i think you know identity is an important part of you know, work that we do or innovations that we're a part of.
Influence of Trans Identity on Work
00:22:42
Speaker
And so, you know, certainly wanting to raise up those those gifts that trans and non-binary folks um bring as part of that type of innovative process. So I just wanted to highlight that one specifically.
00:22:55
Speaker
When we look at trans people having lived in one gender for a certain amount of time before realizing or coming to the conclusion that that wasn't right for them and then spending time in their true gender, they then have these really interesting viewpoints and lived experience of more than one gender. And so I wanted to ask you about that and how we you can really offer that unique insight into multiple different genders.
00:23:23
Speaker
Does that... Yeah, yeah. Oh, it makes complete sense. And one that's often overlooked, I would say by many cis people is, and once they start to talk to trans and non-binary folks, they may realize this, that because of this kind of walking in different worlds, appearing in different ways or different names and people perceiving you in a different way.
00:23:44
Speaker
That there's tremendous amount of insight, like, as myself as an example, you know, of course, i was raised as a girl, and you know, to some degree was perceived as a woman, in my adult years, that's, you know, huge amount of insight there, right, in terms of how people treat me what they said to me.
00:24:01
Speaker
how they interacted, the inappropriate touching, like sexual harassment side of things. Like I experienced it and know it. I can to some degree, you know, talk to cis men about that to be like, Hey,
00:24:17
Speaker
This is a very real big deal, right? Of course, we want to have so many other stories and voices. This shouldn't just be trans people communicating this, but provide that often unique perspective, having walked in the world in different ways.
Unique Gender Insights from Trans Experiences
00:24:31
Speaker
But then also similarly, because you know I've had undertaken some aspect of medical transition, I can also talk to cis women about you know some of these changes, right?
00:24:41
Speaker
And nuance some of the things that they might be experiencing from cis men to be like, hey, it's not all made up. Obviously, people can figure out ways, but, and and certainly not to dismiss bad behavior, but it's more the sense of the emotional availability is often a point of contention.
00:25:02
Speaker
And expressing that, you know, being on testosterone has a tremendous impact on somebody's emotional bandwidth, mine having shrunk in very drastic ways. And, you know, so just kind of spelling out some of those experiences, hopefully help bring various genders a bit closer or more compassionate or empathetic for their distinct experiences.
00:25:25
Speaker
And of course, not everything is distinct, either. There's that aspect where it's like, hey, it's not as different as, you know, we put it out to be, right? So but some things are unique, but others are like, we're we're overblowing this one. hmm.
00:25:41
Speaker
So just kind of mapping that out for folks, I think is really powerful and useful if people are wanting to listen to trans and non-binary folks. so It's kind of impossible to cover all of the gifts of trans people in one podcast episode, but do you have any sort of last gifts that you wanted us to talk about?
00:26:01
Speaker
One other one that i'm just coming to mind that I want to add could be its own podcast episode, but the understanding that our gender is more than our bodies.
Beyond Physical Bodies: Understanding Gender
00:26:12
Speaker
It's a really important one that definitely helps cisgender folks too, because we find that cis folk, when they have an injury or you know cancer some sort of ailment related to their sex organs, it creates ah an identity crisis for them.
00:26:31
Speaker
One that if there's an understanding that we are more than our bodies could could help them with that. doesn't take away the pain. Like it's obviously on its own a very painful thing, but it doesn't have to result in an identity crisis.
00:26:46
Speaker
So that's something that is a gift from trans people. So yeah, there's one other one that added. Obviously there's more, but an important topic nonetheless. Amazing.
00:26:57
Speaker
um So to close up, do you have any sort of final thoughts on the gifts of trans people that you'd like to talk about? This is such an important topic, not just because of, you know, we don't want to only focus on the negative, but I think some people are a bit surprised that trans people have gifts, right?
00:27:16
Speaker
Yeah. There's so much of a focus on, and at least in certain circles, like there's only negative things about trans people. We're out to lunch, we're delusional, you know whatever long list of negative things.
00:27:29
Speaker
But that we actually have important contributions that could help many different people I think is a really powerful one to the degree that people are open to it could and and in any relationship with trans and non-binary folks could, could benefit from.
00:27:45
Speaker
I'm not saying that we need to like have a transactional view towards trans and non-binary folks, like give me what you got, but it's more that, you know, inviting a deeper connection with trans and non-binary folks could surprise someone in this positive side of things related to gifts.
Benefits of Trans Inclusivity in Workplaces
00:28:05
Speaker
And of course, we have not even gone into all the areas of gifts that trans and non-binary folks have for others. There is so much benefit in people not creating space for trans people simply because we should, but also because we actually might gain from it too. And and again, like not to make it transactional, but like all of this work that Transfocus does with organizations to make it a safe and comfortable and happy place for trans people to work. It's not just because trans people will benefit from that. Of course they will if they have safe workplaces, but it's also that we'll benefit from
Merchandise Announcement for Gender Joy
00:28:42
Speaker
it too. Our workplaces,
00:28:43
Speaker
will actively be better places if trans people and non-binary people are present because of all of those gifts that they have. So true and very exciting. One thing I wanted to add into the mix is that although we don't have a resource for this week, we do have an exciting announcement in that there is merch available.
00:29:05
Speaker
On this topic, this very topic of, you know, trans gifts, we have and mugs and t-shirts and whatnot that have a message of, it's just like this tagline that says, gender joy suits you.
00:29:20
Speaker
And thinking about the positive side of things, whether you're trans or cisgender, hopefully, we have experiences of gender joy and that that's something that is beautiful and exciting and wonderful that we want to support for everyone.
00:29:36
Speaker
Well, keep an eye out for that. It's coming soon. We'll share that on our social media when it's ready, which brings me perfectly onto...
Finding Kai and the Podcast on Social Media
00:29:43
Speaker
Kai, where can we find you on social media? All of of the social medias, minus a few obvious ones.
00:29:50
Speaker
ah There's LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, threads, and then YouTubes. Great. You can check us out there and we'll see you next week.
00:30:01
Speaker
Sounds good. Bye for now. Bye.