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Staying the Course: Allyship, Burnout & Trans Rights
16 Plays1 month ago
There are days when it feels like the tide is turning backwards - when every step forward for gender diversity is met with a wall of resistance, and showing up starts to feel just a bit too much.
This week, we’re talking about allyship burnout. The slow, quiet kind of exhaustion that creeps in when you care deeply but feel like nothing is shifting. We share the gentle practices that help us stay in it, the moments we’ve struggled, what brought us back, and the small ways we keep tending to this work, even when it feels heavy.
If you’ve been wondering how to keep going in the face of backlash and fatigue… you’re not alone. We're in this together!
We want your feedback! Got some ideas about how we can improve the podcast?! We’ve made a short, painless survey to find out what you think, what you want more of... and what topics you'd love to hear us cover next. Let us know your thoughts here
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Want to get in touch? Contact us at podcast@transfocus.ca
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose of Interview
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Gender in Focus podcast. I'm Elle and each week I get to ask Kai Scott, the president of TransFocus Consulting, all the questions you have ever wanted to ask about trans and non-binary people in the workplace and in the wider world.
Expectations of Allyship for Trans and Non-Binary People
00:00:18
Speaker
Trans and non-binary folks are not expecting perfect allyship. Just even saying something like to the person who might be off base in some way, hey, I'm new to this topic, but I have a sense that what you just said or did was off.
00:00:32
Speaker
And I'm learning in this process as much as anyone. And I'd like to learn together with you.
Aligning Actions with Values and Managing Burnout
00:00:40
Speaker
tuning in to what my values actually are and kind of rethinking like, okay, is this important to me? Yeah, it is. Okay. So I don't actually want to stop this. I just need to take a break.
00:00:58
Speaker
Are you feeling overwhelmed by the constant backlash? You're not alone. In this episode, Elle and I dive into the emotional weight of allyship burnout. the guilt of not doing enough, the paralysis of not knowing what to say or do, and the fear of doing harm while trying to help. i share some vulnerable stories about burnout in the context of Indigenous reconciliation, and Elle offers a powerful reframe.
00:01:25
Speaker
What if we change the pace, not the purpose? Tune in for a real talk on how to move from fatigue to focus by getting curious, staying grounded in your values,
00:01:36
Speaker
and taking action that's local, intentional, and sustainable. I'm really looking forward to getting into this conversation, and I'm joined by my esteemed colleague, Elle. How are you doing? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm also doing well. Yeah, even if a bit tired, but that's okay. Sometimes it happens. Yeah, it does.
00:01:55
Speaker
Well, I was going say it's early morning. It's not too early. Maybe you should go to bed earlier. I don't know. Exactly. It's true. Catch up on that sleep. Yeah. um So you touched on just in your intro then about this constant backlash that we're seeing
Challenges and Strategies in Allyship
00:02:10
Speaker
at the moment.
00:02:10
Speaker
And i think it is probably pretty natural for people to feel that kind of burnout or that like that fatigue. And so i wanted to start, I guess, with what you're seeing from from allies around you and like what that actually looks like in terms of burnout. Yeah.
00:02:25
Speaker
No kidding. Burnout looks like a few different ways. Certainly, there's a lot of changes happening, whether down the United States or even here, where legislation is being proposed or passed that is harmful to trans and non-binary folks, whether related to washrooms or access to gender-affirming care for youth, you know school policies, sports, long-lived things.
00:02:52
Speaker
It's just coming so fast, right? So fast and furious. This state or this province has done something. Leaders are talking about things. There's opinion pieces that kind of flare up and become viral. You know, any number of things can happen on one day.
00:03:08
Speaker
And when it comes so fast, it's hard to know where to go with that information. Where do I apply my limited energy, time, resources as an ally?
00:03:21
Speaker
Is it this area? it this other area? And you look at how big things are and are trying to assess, or at least myself as an ally, I'm trying to constantly assess like, where's my energy most effective?
00:03:35
Speaker
What do I actually have control over? it can feel a bit despondent that it's so much and so unfair and so ugly. It's really ugly sometimes, some of the things that are said or done.
00:03:49
Speaker
And it can be debilitating, where it's just like, does my action or that of a small group really make a difference in the large scale awfulness? So there's that, there's a confusion, like, what should I actually do as an ally?
00:04:06
Speaker
you know, not wanting to kind of step on the toes of trans and non-binary folks. And so just very disorienting, very fast paced confusion and wondering what to do.
00:04:18
Speaker
And so people can just get to a state of not doing anything and maybe even curling up in bed. Sometimes I do that just like it's totally overwhelmed, put the blankets over my head and hope for a better day tomorrow.
00:04:32
Speaker
and Yeah. So I can, I can, I can appreciate that. How do you validate that the reality of all of that stress and burnout and sort of despair? A lot of the time I definitely get like a sense of just like, not too often. i I'm pretty good at getting myself out of it, but occasionally I will fall into this despair when something bad happens or something, some news comes out of my own country or the States or something like that. How do you validate that and acknowledge that without getting stuck?
00:05:02
Speaker
yeah That's a really good best advice. I appreciate you're not a therapist. Right, exactly. That's true. Therapy is good. We should start with that.
00:05:14
Speaker
You know, it is important to validate it because it is awful and tragic and horrific in some cases what is being actively worked against for trans and non-binary folks, especially given the small size of the population that we are. just like it's totally disproportionate to our scale.
00:05:36
Speaker
And somehow we're the boogeyman in some people's minds. And, ah you know, i think it is important to grieve that, especially if somebody is a part of the trans and non-binary community, or even loved ones of trans and non-binary. To witness this kind of vitriol is really disempowering.
00:05:57
Speaker
Because, you know, we're we're looking at the sidelines and just seeing how our family members are being pummeled. And, you know, you can't help but not be mad, despairing, and acknowledging the awfulness.
00:06:11
Speaker
Now that said, if we stay there, unfortunately, it takes all of our power and saps us completely dry of any ability to be a part of the positive history that's being developed.
00:06:25
Speaker
Because there is a positive side to this, right? There's awfulness, and then there's the continued steps towards making a more inclusive, relationship future that's not it's not it hasn't stopped entirely it continues to unfold
Practical Steps for Effective Allyship
00:06:40
Speaker
and the not staying is difficult because it is really easy to pay attention to negative i mean we're kind of almost ah evolutionarily focused or oriented towards the negative. We want to be able to scan for danger and be able to respond. But we do have to kind of work with our minds to be like, okay, that's enough news for today.
00:07:03
Speaker
if we've gone or two hours into the rabbit hole, maybe pulling out of it, reorienting to, you know, life, whether it's connected to community, family, friends, nature. We've talked a lot about nature.
00:07:18
Speaker
being a very powerful tool. Well, not tool, because it's living, it's being. And so being in that, connecting with it can really kind of disrupt that despair and reorient us to what is possible, what is needed and where we can place ourselves.
00:07:37
Speaker
And sometimes it helps to talk to people about that despair to an extent and I was mentioning therapy. I highly recommend it. Obviously, there's a financial accessibility, but yeah, talking to somebody who can you know validate those feelings and come up with strategies that work for the individual.
00:07:57
Speaker
Also, I think the fastest way I found out of despair is to actually contribute, whether it's volunteering or connecting and being with community and giving in some practical way. It's just being busy with the body somehow.
00:08:12
Speaker
helps dislodge. And you can see, you know, the appreciation people's faces and that it's made a material difference to them by having contributed. so those are just a few things that come to mind. Yeah. Any that you know of or that work well for you?
00:08:29
Speaker
Just setting limits and boundaries around my time and what I, what I pour my energy into is the big one for me. think I've talked to you about this, but I generally don't look at the news related to trans and non-binary stuff until the weekend.
00:08:43
Speaker
Like I'll give myself most of the week to live in my bubble of ignorance and then I'll catch up on the weekend. Just to like, that's not something I always do, but at the moment, that's what I'm doing. I'm like catching off. Like I'm still informed, but I'm not letting it swallow me up. So no, for me, it's been just setting boundaries. And also I think what you said about contributing in some way, really.
00:09:04
Speaker
is ah is a really good one. And I ah more on that later, because I have some questions for you about that. But I want to ask you first, though, about a lot of people get this sense of dread that they're not doing enough, and then end up just not doing anything.
00:09:19
Speaker
And so could you go into that side a bit more and just sort of that that anxiety induced fatigue? Yeah. So, you know, the, this fear of not doing enough, um, is when I reflect on it and I've certainly had those feelings or thoughts, uh, many a time on other equity groups, right?
00:09:39
Speaker
Like, you know, I rattle off 50 things that I could be doing. Right. And usually it's, it's because I've rattled off those 50 things that it feels like I've not doing enough because,
00:09:50
Speaker
I'm maybe only doing one or maybe none. Right. And so i just I'm kind of kind of pummeling myself mentally. And it really is just me at war with myself, because obviously people in those equity groups are not at my door being like, hey, where have you been?
00:10:09
Speaker
Why haven't you done x y and And right and right It's more just a rather, because it's all mental energy. And for me, it's about conserving energy at this stage of things.
00:10:23
Speaker
And as much as I can notice, as soon as I am doing self pummeling, to be like, that's not very productive. um And I'm just like, wasting away energy that could be applied to doing at least one thing, right?
00:10:40
Speaker
And really, it's about building momentum towards something. I find too, if I have the feeling I'm not doing enough, I'm usually hesitant about something as well, like not sure what where to begin or what to do. And so it feels easier to get stuck in the I'm not doing enough because then at least I'm showing that I'm guilty and that should count for something, kind of. It's it's a very kind of interesting psychology, I will say.
00:11:07
Speaker
right But of course, that doesn't really count for anything that is really helpful. And so it's more to get grounded in kind of matter of fact way to be like, okay,
00:11:23
Speaker
That's wasting energy. Let's hit a pause button on that. And what is it that I'm good at? What is it that I feel drawn towards? What am I passionate about?
00:11:35
Speaker
And it's okay to be oriented to towards oneself in the wanting to reach to help others or to be involved. And so once I have a little bit more clarity on that, it's easier to connect.
00:11:48
Speaker
Then I can feel like, hey, this is what i I can do. I can override. good at grant writing, I'm good at buying groceries and bringing them to somebody, you know, I don't know what the thing is, or I quilt, right? Or I make beautiful art, you know, just there's everybody has their own unique thing.
00:12:06
Speaker
And so that makes it that much easier to connect with the needs of other organizations and offer something. They might redirect or say, we don't actually need that, we need something else, which case you can you know figure it out from there. But just even that is more productive to try to find a way forward.
00:12:25
Speaker
And I would also say less focus on quantity. i think that's a very Western way to approach things. like so I should do five things. It's like, why?
00:12:36
Speaker
Why five? know, or whatever the number is. It's like, what if it was one thing that was like, super meaningful, and maybe not even that much time? It just was meant that much.
00:12:48
Speaker
For me, that seems like a better way to focus and rather than just on the numbers. And then it it can be that much more powerful. Yeah. So yeah, those are a few things that come to mind to kind of unravel the I'm not doing enough, or I don't know what we're but to do, or where to begin.
00:13:06
Speaker
like, no, you probably already have a few of the answers, just maybe being quieter and self-reflective, ah thinking about what it is, and then offering that. And maybe not all groups either.
00:13:20
Speaker
think sometimes we think we got to help everyone. You know, it's like, that's probably not realistic. Maybe for some superhuman person, but certainly not for me. So, you know, pick one thing, one group and focus on that. And I find once I started to help one group, it kind of naturally flows into other things.
00:13:41
Speaker
And so you just kind of step by step, figure some pathway into other things. And it doesn't have to be such a struggle or a grind. I really, really love the way you worded something just then, yeah which was about not what I should be doing, but what can I do?
00:13:57
Speaker
And it's that allyship doesn't look one way. There isn't one way to be a good ally. I often feel like when I talk to people in other equity groups, when they're talking about allies, allies it tends to be that people think they need to take this big role and they need to be the sort of almost like the leader of of it. And they need to be doing all these, this big stuff, you know, and actually it's the small stuff. that that makes up the everyday allyship. It's the small stuff that is the most important.
00:14:24
Speaker
It is. And you're right about the little things making a huge difference. So just even committing to, I mean, we go back to pronouns a lot, but, you know, and it's not the only thing, but certainly if you commit to somebody's pronouns and be like, I'm going to practice them and really get dialed on them and maybe even work with others so that they can be dialed as well.
00:14:48
Speaker
and take off some of that heavy lift for that person, like that that's really beautiful. And people will really, that person will really notice it. It doesn't have to be this big thing.
00:14:59
Speaker
I would even say that that's, I mean, we don't we don't need to do comparative analysis here, but that could be a actually a tremendous experience for somebody. When it comes to those sort of smaller moments of allyship and a lot of people feeling like there's a responsibility to do all the big things and show up in a really huge way. Could you go into recognizing when it's time for you to step up and and address certain issues and sort of comparing that to when you should maybe step back and recognize when you might be centering yourself? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:15:32
Speaker
Step up versus step aside. i mean, these types of things are really important. And it does require some situational awareness that perhaps is underdeveloped, especially in Western society. We are very kind of action oriented and, you know, Russian vibes, which I think comes from a ah degree of anxiety,
00:15:55
Speaker
You know, the the I want to do something. And so like, ah do something, you know, and then kind of rush rush it rather than just a pause for a beat to to look at the situation, you know, observe people's facial expressions. And, you know, we don't always want to be just doing it based on how somebody appears.
00:16:15
Speaker
Sometimes a direct ask is also appropriate. But there's a lot of information that's being disseminated from people. I tend to look at people's level of exhaustion and whether they're saying something as the trans or non-binary person in a situation.
00:16:33
Speaker
And if they're quiet and perhaps their eyes are cast down or their heavy sigh, you know, there's
Personal Stories and Broader Engagement
00:16:40
Speaker
so certain clues that people are are sharing. And if they're looking at you, you know, as somebody they trust and, you know, kind of like,
00:16:49
Speaker
Sometimes people give the like help eyeballs, yeah help look, you know, quiet desperation. There's those can be really powerful clues that it's that that there's a ah moment for you to step in to that situation.
00:17:05
Speaker
And it's not a matter of like taking over the situation or or scenario, but more about, it hey, this might not be on your radar. But here's kind of what I see happening at this moment. And here's some suggestions for how to rectify it.
00:17:22
Speaker
And not to say that those are the only ways, but just say, hey, want to get the ball rolling here, open to your thoughts as well. you know So you kind of kind of broker that restorative a kind of restoration for that individual.
00:17:35
Speaker
And you know after something has been addressed or at least pointed out, I think it is valuable to go back to that individual, the trans or non-binary person after the fact. to kind of debrief it, obviously if they want to, you know if they're done for the day, don't push it, but just to say, hey, this is how I thought of doing it in the moment. I just want to make sure that how that felt for you, right?
00:17:57
Speaker
And an open question to see, did this land for them? you know Were they wanting to step in but didn't have an ah opportunity? you know So that can be a good way to learn. So sometimes you learn by doing and getting feedback and then adjusting accordingly the next time right now if you see a trans or non-binary person stepping in to the situation themselves and starting to talk and addressing it themselves it's okay to stay stay there and you know hold space for that to be a part of it but it's really important not to be like yeah what they said and you know
00:18:37
Speaker
Or like, no, actually not that, you know, like disagreeing with that that's that. That's not, I don't think most people would do that. But sometimes people feel they want to add their two cents into something, which might complicate that trans and non-binary person's response. So that's when you have a step aside moment where you're there.
00:18:55
Speaker
in support of. And there might be opportunity to speak to the person that was being corrected or you know, addressed after the fact to to see how that landed for them to do maybe a little extra work.
00:19:06
Speaker
So that might be like a step aside for a moment while the trans and non-binary person talks, but then loop back to do additional allyship work with that person. here I think often some people can feel and I definitely have done this of feeling like because I don't know what to do and I'm a bit overwhelmed I'm just gonna leave that to someone else to do yeah and can I ask you to speak on the consequences of that and just allowing other people to do this right to do the allyship work
00:19:39
Speaker
So, you know, if there's not the the trans person around, it's more obvious, right, that you're it. yeah Or even if the trans person is giving you the like, please help glance if they're in the situation.
00:19:55
Speaker
And you don't step up. That can be really harmful. And even if it's not intended, because so often trans and non-binary folks have to do, we have to do our own work time and time again. It's very exhausting to the point where some people it's too much and they socially isolate.
00:20:13
Speaker
They're like a tap out of social interactions. Yeah. So enough of those instances of, you know, allies not stepping up, then it can result in decisions that people make that have lasting impacts on their lives and like not feeling like people have their back or just having to go it alone. And yeah, there's so many different ways that just, it's not even...
00:20:37
Speaker
I mean, betrayal might be ah too strong of a word, but there is a sense of that. And it's not even that the ally is being malicious in that moment, just unsure of themselves.
00:20:48
Speaker
And the thing is I want to communicate is that trans and non-binary folks are not expecting perfect allyship. Just even saying something like to the person who might be off base in some way.
00:21:00
Speaker
hey, I'm new to this topic, but I have a sense that what you just said or did was off. And I'm learning in this process as much as anyone. And i'd like to learn together with you on this. You know, so even that kind of admission that don't have it all figured out, but that you want to help this other person
Staying Engaged and Avoiding Burnout
00:21:20
Speaker
can make a huge difference.
00:21:21
Speaker
And then that's taking off that heavy load from the trends or non-binary person. You told me a story once and I was wondering if it was it would be okay for you to share here. And obviously if it isn't, then no pressure. But you you talked about your own role as an ally for indigenous people. And i was hoping you could go into that a little bit and how you've experienced allyship burnout.
00:21:44
Speaker
Yeah, in terms of my own allyship journey with Indigenous people, spanned several decades now. And, you know, I've had varying degrees of anxiety around that allyship, especially at the beginning. I felt very awkward saying,
00:22:01
Speaker
land acknowledgments, this is many decades ago, and knowing enough about Indigenous groups to be able to navigate, say, cultural events, and just feeling very unsure of myself, whether I should be in a space, should I go on reserve, you know, just like all of those anxieties that a lot of non-Indigenous folks have, and what to say not to say, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so through a series of listening and just continuing to show up at events and wherever invited, it really just taught me to jump in.
00:22:34
Speaker
And it's not to say that i didn't do any harm. Obviously, I'm sure and I know I had a lot of missteps along the way, but by the continuous showing up, I got better and better at knowing what it was expected of me, reading the room of you know, when I was needed, when I wasn't, and really being able to show up. And it really clicked for me. There's one particular story that really sealed it for me. And this was maybe 12 years ago, where I was working with an indigenous elder. I used to work in the mining industry.
00:23:09
Speaker
look for proposed mines. And that got me out on the land with elders talking about different areas that they used for hunting, trapping, you know, berry picking, plant gathering, etc. And and this one particular elder was showing me um how to harvest licorice root.
00:23:30
Speaker
And it was just so beautiful, so fascinating, and so touching. This very methodical offering tobacco before harvesting and, you know, identifying the plant properly, you know, communicating with it and then how to harvest it properly. And so i was like, oh, this is great. Documenting it furiously as part of my role.
00:23:52
Speaker
And i was kind of a bit clueless because i was so anxious. know, wanted to do the proper documentation that I lost the plot on, you know, this is an oral tradition.
00:24:06
Speaker
It's relational. You share information based on an established relationship. And then there's responsibilities that come from that. And i was missing that responsibility because I was so focused on my task, which is very Western, right? Write everything down, you know, ah transfer it to others, you know, et cetera.
00:24:26
Speaker
And he just paused and it was very gentle, but very clear. He's like, I am relying on you to gather a licorice root for the Sundance now. And I was like, whoa, holy crap.
00:24:38
Speaker
you know It just really like woke me up in that moment to the much larger picture at play. And then i took it very seriously. And after hours,
00:24:50
Speaker
I then went about and gathered all this licorice root and then brought it to him the day next day. And he was a little surprised, I think. He was a little taken... like I think... I mean, I'm sure he puts out many requests and perhaps doesn't get as many responses.
00:25:05
Speaker
But when I you know gave that full bag of licorice root, it really meant a lot. It was a really touching moment for both of us, both as him having clarified and for me to respond.
00:25:18
Speaker
And so I think... There's hopefully like a beautiful lesson, like not to be consumed by that anxiety, but to be open to the the bigger picture and be aware of that and responsive to it. So if somebody makes a request, there's a degree of trust that is being put in to you as the person receiving that request. And to the best of your ability, go and try to do that.
00:25:45
Speaker
That builds that relationship over time. And more will be revealed from there. But that's a very important starting point. Oh, my gosh. I love that story. That's super powerful. I remembered I haven't told that in a while.
00:25:58
Speaker
Oh, you're so sweet. Mike, the elder. That's sweet. Do you think that curiosity plays a part in keeping the momentum going and ah like like avoiding that burnout?
00:26:10
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a really good one. I like that because curiosity has a lightness to it. And there's a bit of humility that as allies, we don't know everything.
00:26:22
Speaker
And we're maybe in a more observant mindset and then see things that we're like, I wonder what that's about. And then inquire, obviously with humility to say, if it's okay for me to know, or if you want to share, I'm curious about this aspect that i just noticed here. And people appreciate for the most part that, that noticing it means that you're kind of attuned to what's happening more generally and also wanting to contribute and just finding those different pathways in.
00:26:49
Speaker
And maybe there'll be something there to do or to know, and which case it'll be highlighted ah by the curiosity. And then if not, you just go about your merry way, right? So there's kind of not a way to lose with curiosity, ah obviously with humility, and but yeah.
00:27:09
Speaker
And it can help ah because it redirects the mind that wants to go to the negative towards the more positive, more kind of action or solutions oriented, or at least knowledge oriented direction.
00:27:21
Speaker
And it's a very powerful mechanism to help with what could otherwise be just staying in the despair when actually there's so much that needs to be done or that can be contributed to or that's being created in a positive direction. It's just a matter of figuring out how to hook up with that.
00:27:43
Speaker
And curiosity can be a bit of that bridge towards that side of things. And before I guess we go, well i want to know some top tips. You've shared a lot here, but like if you were to say your your top one that you use to avoid burnout and anything else you want to close up on, ah now is your time to share your wisdom. No pressure.
00:28:03
Speaker
No, none. um Yeah, I mean, I have a few different tools, but the one that I find helps the most is pause. and of course, there's different ways to pause.
00:28:16
Speaker
because, you know, my mind can go in many different directions. And if I notice that it's perhaps going in a squirrelier darker direction, pausing, i mean, first have to notice it, but then second pause.
00:28:32
Speaker
right And just to know that I have different options available to me. And then the pause allows me to figure out what do I want to do next? Where do I want to go And certainly, um you know, I have a meditation practice that allows me that ability to work with my mind in this way of like observing and pausing.
00:28:52
Speaker
um That certainly helps. Of course, everyone has their own tool, you know, may not be meditation. um And then the the second best one that's kind of related to pause is for me to go take a walk.
00:29:07
Speaker
Like, it's the simplest thing, right? Just a change of pace, surroundings that allow me to then reset to when I come back, I have a different headspace that I can go somewhere else with it other than where I was going.
00:29:25
Speaker
How about you? ah For me, well, I also have a meditation practice that I do that helps me stop when I'm spiraling and just like, just ah take a minute, take take a breath to to establish actually where I am. i think rather than something that I used to do,
00:29:41
Speaker
would be to just push through the burnout and make it worse and actually make me completely useless. And ah so avoiding that really for me has looked like just rather than continuously just keeping going, I will change the pace a bit.
00:29:57
Speaker
So if I'm feeling like I'm not able to keep going with the momentum that I've got, just being able to recognize that Kind of before it happens, like I can just feel myself slowing down a bit and using that as a permission to be like, okay, I can't be a hundred percent all the time.
00:30:13
Speaker
So actually my hundred percent this week looks like my usual 20% and just taking things right down. ah and giving myself permission to take a break, knowing that it's necessary in order to keep going with it was much more helpful to be consistent with my allyship and just allowing myself to have those like those waves of of energy.
00:30:40
Speaker
And also something that I find really helpful is like, especially when I'm in those where I just really can't be bothered anymore. that I've definitely done that a couple of times where I've just, I just can't be bothered to keep going with something.
00:30:53
Speaker
And it's tuning in to what my values actually are and kind of rethinking like, okay, is this important to me? Yeah, it is. Okay. So I don't actually want to stop this. I just need to take a break. I just need to have a breather and then I can get back to it.
00:31:10
Speaker
So those are the things just tuning into what my morals are, what my values are, whether I want to have integrity or whether I don't care.
00:31:20
Speaker
And I usually do care. So usually the answer is slowing down or taking a break rather than just giving up entirely. Yeah. Yeah, that's such a good reminder.
00:31:32
Speaker
you know, the values can be the North Star that, you know, keep us plugging away at different paces. Like, it's so true about and not doing a sprint for the whole marathon.
00:31:42
Speaker
Just sometimes you'll have to slow down to be able to continue. So... Yeah, I love that. There's life beyond burnout with a few of these strategies and others. You know, on social media, we can share more.
00:31:56
Speaker
I'm sure there are other really great strategies out there. I'm curious to hear about them. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Kai. And I'll see you next week. Okay, bye for now.