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What Happens When a Trans Employee Comes Out... and You’re the Manager?
17 Plays1 month ago
What happens when a trans or non-binary employee comes out at work and their manager suddenly becomes the person everyone looks to for guidance?
It’s a moment that can bring care, confusion, and pressure all at once. Many managers want to be supportive but don’t know where to start, and without a clear plan, that uncertainty can turn into silence or missteps.
In this episode, we explore what real support looks like when an employee comes out as transgender. How can managers respond with empathy instead of panic? How can they create a safe, inclusive workplace where gender diversity isn’t just acknowledged - it’s respected and celebrated?
We dive into what to say in that first conversation, how to plan each step together, and why education - not perfection - is what truly builds trust. Along the way, we talk about timelines, communication, travel, and the systemic changes that make transgender inclusion possible at work.
Perfect for: managers, HR leaders, DEI practitioners, and anyone passionate about gender diversity in the workplace and inclusive leadership.
(From TransFocus Consulting’s podcast on transgender inclusion, allyship, and building more equitable workplaces.)
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Transcript
Introduction to Gender in Focus Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Gender in Focus podcast. I'm Elle and each week I get to ask Kai Scott, the president of TransFocus Consulting, all the questions you have ever wanted to ask about trans and non-binary people in the workplace and in the wider world.
00:00:18
Speaker
A lot of trans folks come out to their managers because that's who the employee is most familiar with, especially in a large organization. They may not actually know the human resources person.
00:00:29
Speaker
and So that trust is so pivotal. I think but so many people, if they're faced with something that they don't really understand, i can imagine that they just want to deal with it quickly. Like they just want to jump in and get all the details done. And actually pull the first response to that should be like connection based, I guess.
Supporting Trans Employees: Manager's Guide
00:00:56
Speaker
Today's episode is for every manager who wants to show up with confidence and care when a trans or non-binary employee comes out at work. Without a clear roadmap, too many trans employees are left to assume they have to navigate coming out all alone.
00:01:11
Speaker
But it doesn't have to be that way. We'll walk through best practices steps for leaders from that crucial first response in an initial meeting, to planning the right follow-up, updating systems and records, and guiding the team with thoughtful communication and education.
00:01:27
Speaker
We also cover some unique considerations that managers often miss, not because they don't care, but just it's not on their radar. ah But it doesn't have to be that way, and we can certainly make things better together. When managers lead with clarity and compassion, the whole workplace becomes safer,
00:01:44
Speaker
and stronger for every everyone. So let's get into it. I'm here with my colleague Elle and I'm really excited to get into this topic with you. How are you doing Elle? I'm doing very well. How are you?
00:01:55
Speaker
Excellent. Yeah.
Approaching a Trans Employee's Coming Out
00:01:56
Speaker
This one is really interesting because you you talk to a lot of organizations who have questions about this process. Before I ask the questions that I have for you, I really wanted to know, how do you like how do managers typically feel about this to start with? like yeah I imagine that it's a daunting topic to to think about for a lot of managers.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yes, it very much is I know in talking to a lot of managers, even human resources, and They often feel very overwhelmed by this topic. When it comes up, a trans person announces either to their manager, their supervisor, or even human resources, occasionally also the equity, diversity, and inclusion teams, and there's a pause because usually organizations just haven't thought it through.
00:02:44
Speaker
Not because they don't care. they have, I mean, of course they know that trans people exist, but it just, they didn't have the time. They didn't have the wherewithal, whatever the case may be.
Creating Organizational Support Systems
00:02:54
Speaker
And suddenly it's happening. And usually there's kind of a deer in headlights moment of like, oh shoot, what do we do?
00:03:01
Speaker
How do we even go about this? people will want to do the right thing, but don't know how. And then often either over relying or not engaging ah one extreme or the other, the trans employee is just sitting there.
00:03:16
Speaker
ah And so it can kind of get things off to the wrong start. um And then unfortunately people are left to kind of figure it out as they go and usually bumping up ah against all kinds of things. So um I usually have much compassion for,
00:03:33
Speaker
human resource and managers because uh you know they're just trying to figure it out and it's usually pretty stressful with everything else that they're having to do so um yeah that's part of what's going on uh when somebody comes out what what should managers be doing then that's such a broad question and i'm sure there's so many layers to it but if we were to look at just like first things to consider what would that be Absolutely. So, you know, if an organization creates a toolkit in a kind of preemptive ah setting the stage, working things out, making sure systems are set up, that could be really useful.
00:04:15
Speaker
But even if you don't have a toolkit, I think it's really important to acknowledge the trans or non-binary person ah thanking them for coming out, for sharing this deep inner truth about themselves.
00:04:29
Speaker
um Depending on how that person approaches you, you could even be celebratory, right? If they're very excited about it, you can match that energy. And then to say, we're going to work on this together, step by step.
00:04:43
Speaker
ah You don't have to overly explain that you don't know everything. That doesn't usually inspire a lot of confidence. Even if you do, ah you know, it's not that you'd lie necessarily, but just you don't have to explain that you don't know everything.
00:04:58
Speaker
It's just that you'll figure it out together, right? Which is an honest response. And one that's kind of positively oriented and and and creates that momentum to help you help each other out.
Empowering Trans Employees in Their Process
00:05:12
Speaker
And then from there, it's it's setting up a series of meetings to get to know this trans person's needs and what they have in in mind or envisioned for the coming out process, and then diligently taking steps to implement that. So very much having the employee in the driver's seat is really key part of the process.
00:05:34
Speaker
um I want to come back to this series of meetings that you just mentioned, but before I do, Would you mind just giving us a bit of a recap of the toolkit again? We do have an episode that came out um already on that, and I will link that in the show notes. But could you just give us like a quick overview?
00:05:50
Speaker
Yes. So the toolkit is a very important set of procedures that are outlined and delineated. by an organization. We certainly have toolkit templates here at Transfocus from the work that we've done and guiding a lot of coming out processes and ah developing them together with many organizations that we've supported over the years.
00:06:15
Speaker
And what is a part of the toolkit is not just the coming out process. That's an important aspect, one that many people focus on, especially managers and human resources.
00:06:26
Speaker
ah But it also includes what to do before somebody comes out. Even if you don't know somebody who is trans in your midst, doesn't mean that there isn't. ah People could be deciding not to come out or ah deciding when to come out and important signals that can be sent to indicate that it's safe to come out are really key as part of that.
00:06:49
Speaker
And then there's the after coming out, the continuous support, the allyship, ah the active, tangible day-to-day things that managers and really everyone in the organization can do.
00:07:01
Speaker
So it's a bit of a roadmap that kind of captures all these different stages of ah experiences, needs, and how managers and other levels of the organization can show up for trans and non-binary folks. And a very clear, ah easy to follow, easy to understand, explaining rationale.
00:07:23
Speaker
It's not coming from a policy angle, like thou shalt. It's coming from a, here's some suggestions, some ideas, some options. So yeah. Sweet. Well, yeah, i'll I'll link the episode that we go into that in a bit more detail. so i'll link that.
00:07:39
Speaker
um Okay. So can i ask you then about, you said a series of meetings and I guess the reason for that would be, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that this is multi-layered and it's not a simple, hey,
Maintaining Privacy in Early Stages
00:07:51
Speaker
I'm trans. Okay, great.
00:07:52
Speaker
Off you go kind of situation. So could you talk about why why there are multiples? And then also, could you go into like that first meeting on what that looks like? Yeah. Yes, such a good point that you know often people, if they're new to the topic of gender diversity, think it's a really simple matter of just kind of announcing and then that's it, and we're done. and When in fact, there's actually a lot to it. The coming out process is quite layered and ah has many different components to it. And it's really important to coordinate and clarify
00:08:29
Speaker
both with the trans person and, say, human resources. Perhaps if it's a union environment, there might be union reps involved. So you really want to be taking it step by step, very careful, because in some sense, ah well,
00:08:45
Speaker
a lot of sense. This is a very private matter until shared more widely with team or perhaps the whole company or organization. So you don't want to rush into things and get ahead of yourself or behind or whatnot. So we really want to be in lockstep with one another And that's the reason for multiple meetings that allow for that clarity and also for documentation. So writing it down in a password protected file that everybody who needs access, including the employee, has that to understand, okay, we're all on the same page.
Building Trust in Initial Meetings
00:09:22
Speaker
We've clarified these details. um So typically people, do um especially managers, don't know what the details are. And so that's where Again, the toolkit has that, including um kind of a communications plan ah template as well so that people can almost go through it in a checklist ah manner.
00:09:43
Speaker
So the first meeting is really important because this is often lot of trans folks come out to their managers. We don't have specific stats, but just time and time again,
00:09:55
Speaker
the work that we've done, it has been managers first, ah because that's who the employee is most familiar with, especially in a large organization. They may not actually know the human resources person.
00:10:07
Speaker
and So that trust is so pivotal to sharing this type of really personal, very intimate knowledge about oneself. And it's very scary ah for trans and non-binary folks to share this with folks. So that's where it's really important for managers to receive this information ah with understanding, with support, with um reassurance. Oftentimes, trans and non-binary folks, um they just, because of that fear, ah having somebody say, thank you, i i ah recognize this is a big step.
00:10:47
Speaker
ah You thank you for coming because we're going to help you with this and support you all the way along. um You're not alone. you know, all of these kinds of reassuring statements can bring down the anxiety level from like 10 maxed out to somewhere more comfortable, like two, three, right?
00:11:06
Speaker
so yeah Yeah. So those are some of the the key aspects of the initial meeting without overloading it and being like, okay, now we're going into all this action and here steps five, six, seven, and eight. You're like, holy smokes.
00:11:18
Speaker
Can we breathe and just receive the information and then schedule another meeting or a few ah to go through the detail? I really like that, and the way you just said that, because it's sort of like this.
00:11:31
Speaker
i think so many people, if they're faced with something that they don't really understand, I can imagine that they just want to deal with it quickly. Like they just want to jump in and get all the details done. And actually pull the first response to that should be like connection based, I guess.
00:11:47
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, really well put. I think because people are unsure of their own skill set or capacity, and and they want or it's because it's pretty personal too, right?
00:12:00
Speaker
And it's something maybe they've not dealt with or heard a lot about or heard some very negative things, especially in the media exposure, rather than like this personalized experience of somebody being trans or non-binary.
00:12:14
Speaker
So just like, ah, hot potato, like, let's throw this to the next thing quickly. Rather than just being with the person, it doesn't actually require a lot, except for presence, which you can be difficult for some, but just like, wow, this is so exciting.
00:12:35
Speaker
um ah Or matching if they're like, I understand why you feel unsure, know, there's, perhaps they don't want dot have a toolkit. So it's not clear what the next steps are.
00:12:46
Speaker
ah So just kind of meeting somebody where they're at, listening to what they're saying, ah what they're concerned about, or or what they're excited about, and just mirroring that back to in an active listening way, right?
00:12:59
Speaker
And if they start to go into the next steps to be like, you know what, I understand you want to know what's next. And I certainly want to help be a part of that. and And, you know, we'll go and I'll go and clarify that.
00:13:12
Speaker
If you do want or need to dovetail or pivot to another team, then explain that part to be like, I need to go to human resources. I'm only going to go to one person in human resources.
00:13:25
Speaker
ah and we're going to establish the process. you know So just talking them through in a calm, clear, ah reassuring manner can really make a huge difference. I think people overestimate how much this first meeting can set the tone for the rest of the thing. And if you do take it a bit slower, it might feel like too slow.
00:13:48
Speaker
It actually makes a huge, very positive impact on the rest of the process. You said something just then that I would love it if you could expand on a bit, which is that um first you said to explain kind of every step. So like if you have to take it beyond the people who are in that meeting, then explaining why. But you also said only telling that one person. Can answer like why it's so important to just keep it between the people who need to know?
00:14:16
Speaker
Yes. So this is a really important factor that sometimes people who are not trans or who are cisgender don't realize how private this is. Certainly, you know, people are wanting, this trans person is wanting to come out to more people, but there is a time period of kind of heightened privacy while sorting out the details of that um sharing with others.
00:14:42
Speaker
ah to make sure that you have the details all squared away. So that's an instance where you don't want to tell a large number of people. Certainly that might be somebody's instinct is like, okay, we got ah start going. It's like, no, no, no. You want to you know just share with one person so that it doesn't get too far afield, especially i would say in a smaller organization, this will be very critical.
00:15:07
Speaker
So you have a small set of people who know at the outset And then you build the bridge to more people knowing in a sequential matter, ah usually, you know, starting with one person in the ah HR so that the rest of HR doesn't really need to know.
00:15:25
Speaker
um It's just one person who is going to be kind of holding ah the information for that position and may also do some system changes and whatnot. So that privacy being key, even though, you know, at some point it will no longer appear private, but that initial stage is so critical just because there's a lot of misunderstanding about trans and non-binary folks. And if the information isn't properly set up, then ah you can kind of get it like You run away with the kind of more negative side of people kind of blowing things out of proportion or making up a story or there's whisper campaigns that can sometimes happen. And those are very harmful streams of of being.
00:16:10
Speaker
So by having it ah a kind of a safety privacy container at the outset, very small group of people knowing ah can set things up to then properly release with full clarification expectations ah so that people really understand how and be set up for success in a good way.
00:16:30
Speaker
So if that first like that initial meeting is more kind of connection-based and ah just hearing the person or being with the person that's that's telling you this about them, what would then next meeting look like?
Navigating Disclosure and Timeline Discussions
00:16:44
Speaker
yeah Yes. So the next meeting is where it's better. This is now the step to get into more details. So again, we're and employee this is an employee-driven process. so So the first meeting, like you said, just connecting, getting to know um and understanding what the needs are.
00:17:04
Speaker
maybe even some privacy considerations. But then the second meeting is like all about, you know, their position. ah and understanding when, how, what they want to do to disclose or share with other folks.
00:17:19
Speaker
How many people do they want to share with, especially larger organizations? You don't need to share with the whole organization. Probably not suitable, right? You just, the people that that person interacts with, it might be one team, a few teams, whatnot.
00:17:34
Speaker
So just kind of understanding where this person fits within the organization and what they have in mind for a timeline for sharing that with various folks. We usually also recommend to have managers of other teams know before that team, the the members of that team, because it sets up managers to not be caught off guard and to be able to address the questions, you quote unquote, concerns, if those arise, ah to be ready.
00:18:04
Speaker
So rather than being caught off guard by that. ah So that's a usual um a part of that discussion. Also, it's really important to clarify what that person wants to share.
00:18:18
Speaker
Some people think, oh, you kind of got to go into the nitty gritty of that person's story. ah But not everybody's up for that. And some people just want to share if they've changed their first name or their pronouns.
00:18:32
Speaker
um and That might be it. They don't want to share anything else. Just this is a matter of fact update, new email address, ah you know new name and whatnot. And And that's it.
00:18:43
Speaker
Others, maybe they want to have a little short piece about being trans and what that means to them, and maybe a ah message that what they want to send to folks. um But it's up to the individual.
00:18:55
Speaker
i will also say that some people don't want to share at all. And I think that's really important to honor that perhaps only managers and human resources know about this person being trans and nobody else.
00:19:09
Speaker
And that's something that I think catches people off guard. They think this is all about disclosure, but it may not be. And I think that's important to kind of in the like register and then also to understand what the expectations of that individual are for others not knowing and what they want human resources and ah the manager to do with the information about them being trans. Perhaps it's being um kind of aware of any issues or being able to respond to things.
00:19:45
Speaker
So some people, they may come out and then want to share on their own, um on their own time, ah you know, one-on-one with individuals. So it may be more of a like organic ah coming to terms with somebody, ah in which case the trends or non-binary person which is totally their right to want to take on that communication and also to recognize that people will address them in different ways based on knowing or not knowing.
00:20:15
Speaker
And so just being ready to support in that process. um Some people might start with that strategy and then realize perhaps it's a little too much for them and then may want to pivot.
00:20:27
Speaker
And so it's also good to be responsive to what's happening. and you might start with one strategy and and pivot to another. So not all of that is being discussed in one meeting, but it is good to talk about timelines,
00:20:41
Speaker
you know, who, ah what, and how that's going to happen. And another piece to the puzzle is, you know, who's, if there's going to be email sent out, or it's a one-on-one meeting, or it's being raised in an education session, like there's so many different ways to do it, but important to provide the options, and then somebody can select the ones that are right for them.
00:21:04
Speaker
you've outlined so much in that. I think a lot of this, most people would maybe not even have a clue that there would be so much thought put into that level when you're thinking of someone coming
Workplace Assumptions and System Limitations
00:21:16
Speaker
out.
00:21:16
Speaker
And I would imagine that most workplaces haven't actually set anything up for this at all because they didn't maybe consider that a trans person might be working there. And so when somebody does this, as somebody comes out what would you say a lot of organizations are then faced with as well levels to to then deal with?
00:21:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yes, it it is um usually not something considered. And what typically happens beyond you know the series of meetings and really hearing from the employee what they want or need.
00:21:51
Speaker
ah But then it's also the systems piece where usually that's not set up. And that one trans person ah going through all of these systems will highlight in usually pretty painful ways, like this isn't set up.
00:22:07
Speaker
What about this? What about that? And it's a like a what about series of like, oh shoot, we didn't think about this. And, you know, what about benefits? And how do we handle first names? Now this person has, you know, ah a chosen name.
00:22:24
Speaker
that they go by day to day and that's new and their past name, which is still their legal name because it takes a long time to change documents. um You know, oh, this person's non-binary and we don't have a you know another response option beyond men and women in our gender ah data collection.
00:22:44
Speaker
I could go on, right? It's just like one thing after the other. And this person is highlighting those system limitations because they've not been thought through. And in which case, if that is at play for an organization, it's being matter of fact, like you're absolutely right. This is missing like our sincere apologies. And we're going to go away and and work that out, right? Maybe there's a short-term thing that we can implement.
00:23:14
Speaker
put it something in a comment section so that it's at least you know recorded, ah if that makes sense to the trans employee or the non-binary employee. um But let's work on that you know off offline amongst ourselves as managers and human resources. Because sometimes what happens is like,
00:23:35
Speaker
the organization will be like, oh, what do you think? They're like, we have a ah real live trans or non-binary person. They they must know what to do. right yeah And sadly, um but maybe not sadly, it's, Of course, people don't.
00:23:50
Speaker
They know what the problems are, but they may not necessarily know the solutions or they may so know solutions for them as their own distinct you know gender identity or experience. So it can't capture all of the the needs across the gender spectrum.
00:24:05
Speaker
So your organizations are likely going to encounter these things through the trans or non-binary person who's coming out. Another reason why to do this proactively and preemptively rather than having to have this person like kind of be bounced about in this like maze of chaos, essentially.
00:24:29
Speaker
um And so that is likely at play. Yeah. And, you know, still can be sorted out even if those happen. um But it's it's a less than ideal situation if those do happen.
Varied Organizational Responses
00:24:46
Speaker
I feel like that but must come up quite a lot if this isn't set up you know beforehand and then somebody comes out. The idea that you would ask an employee then like, oh, how how do you fix the systems?
00:24:59
Speaker
As if they would know, as if they have any background. I don't know if you're, ah I don't know, IT, t maybe you might have an idea, but like, yeah it's just, I wouldn't know where to start and I work for you. So I feel like that's a really hard thing to like navigate for somebody who's just trying to come out and like live and work.
00:25:19
Speaker
Well, and it's coming from a good place. I think the the mindset for managers and human resources is like, oh, we want to involve the people who are having these experiences, but also recognize that this person is under tremendous, I mean, not everybody, but a lot of the times people are in this tremendous pressure.
00:25:39
Speaker
They are doing quite a bit of coming out. They're already probably stressed out to the max. And then another thing is added to their plate, Rather than somebody being like, let me take this off your plate.
00:25:51
Speaker
Don't worry about it. Apologies that it happened. And now thank you for raising it. And now we're going to go and sort it. doesn't mean that you can't circle back and be like, we thought of these ideas.
00:26:03
Speaker
ah Do those make sense to you? Or could so one of those or a few of those work for you? Cool. That's a great way to integrate. But just think about the effort involved in coming up with solutions is a lot of mind, heart, you know all kinds of spaces to And skill sets too. Like it's not just, you know, people coming up with solutions right off, you know, the cuff of their, you know, off the cuff.
00:26:31
Speaker
So yeah, it's a really important thing. And not to overload people who are already likely stressed. Yeah, I want to um talk about stress now because as a manager and you're trying to navigate all of this and there is the possibility that you might also be faced with other people's responses to said person coming out or...
00:26:53
Speaker
um just the situation as a whole.
Managing Pushback and Promoting Inclusion
00:26:56
Speaker
Can I ask you about the role of a manager in that sense and and how to even begin to deal with that? yeah Yeah. And this is, I think, likely what managers fear the most is pushback and not feeling very confident in their ability to respond to that type of pushback It might not even come in like really strong ways, ah you know like outright, no, not going to use this person's pronouns. That's probably less likely, although it does happen, so good to be prepared for that, ah versus a like, um I don't get this, this doesn't make sense. or
00:27:35
Speaker
And it's okay if that's genuinely somebody trying to understand and come to terms and take steps. versus ah you know somebody who is just kind of digging in their heels, and this is a subtle way to do that.
00:27:47
Speaker
So there's a bit of listening that's involved in an understanding where people are getting stuck. So I think it's important not to jump to conclusions ah based on if somebody is raising an issue about a trans person.
00:28:00
Speaker
It is listening and understanding what kind of is underneath the words that they are saying. So this does take a bit of kind of emotional intelligence to to sort out and sift through.
00:28:12
Speaker
And then, you know, really helping people come up to speed. And it's not like managers have to know everything either. ah They just need to say, hey i'm new at this as well. I'm learning. This is what I've learned so far. i am in a continuous learning process about gender diversity.
00:28:31
Speaker
And I know this to be true. i know this to be true. understand you're struggling with this, but it's actually not as big of a deal. I first thought this too, you know, if you're able to kind of connect with that person as a way to help them like carry on. um Now, if somebody is willfully resistant, it is important to, you know, set strong boundaries to say,
00:28:55
Speaker
In our workplace, we value inclusion, we value respect. A part of respect is x y n zd and And, know, we expect you to be able to do this. Here are a few different options. So you're not saying there's only one way to do it.
00:29:12
Speaker
There's several options available to you. You can pick the one that's right for you. and You know, there you go. So it's not like this is like an optional thing. If you think about it respecting trans people, this is like, this is what we do.
00:29:26
Speaker
And this is how you can do it. Here's some ways forward. um And if they continue to struggle, so continue to monitor the situation is a very important part of that. I think one last thing I'll say on the topic there is that sometimes managers who are cisgender or not trans, they can better understand the cis person's perspective than they can the trans person's experience. right Because it's not as accessible or they just have not as much understanding or time to think about that experience or to deeply understand it.
00:30:01
Speaker
And so there's a bit of a balancing act there where You have to be conscious of that bias towards understanding the cis person's concerns and kind of rebalancing it back to be, you know, understanding of the trans person, because that can often have discrimination or challenges persist.
00:30:22
Speaker
for the trans person because the manager is actually siding with the cis person when they're actually causing the problem. you have to be very careful in that regard. And that might require a bit more learning, um you know, going, listening to podcasts like this or ah going to other sources to to deepen that understanding.
Workplace Education for Respectful Interaction
00:30:45
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Let's talk about the ah learning part. Can you tell me about the importance of our education at work? Yes, education is paramount, especially in a coming out process, because ah people often just don't know what to do.
00:31:01
Speaker
And in the absence of any parameters or education for how to be respectful, ah people will resort to kind of tried and true patterns. and like ah won't shift to different ways of engaging or understanding one another.
00:31:21
Speaker
And just breaking breaking it down into practical steps that people can realize this is not two too off of the usual, but enough to require a little bit of extra effort, but not too much extra that allow for a better experience for not just trans and non-binary folks, but really everyone.
00:31:42
Speaker
And so that education is a critical part to get people up to speed, to set the stage, to get them to understand the gravity of the situation. This is not a nice to have. This is bru requires our attention, can really help folks.
00:31:59
Speaker
Because usually most teams that we've done education in a coming out process, yeah they're just like, oh, thank goodness you're here to tell us what to do because otherwise I'm I just, I would be making it up, right?
00:32:12
Speaker
um Just tell me what to do. I'll do it. I'm really excited that this person gets to be their true authentic selves now. and um And I don't want to mess it up, but just get me up to speed.
00:32:25
Speaker
And that's cool. So it's good to be, to to set that up to help people ah be able to show up for others. What kind of options are there for education? many different options. Well, maybe not many, but certainly live education sessions are very powerful in the sense that you know, hour and a half or more ah to go through the specifics.
00:32:51
Speaker
In some cases, when somebody is coming out, we talk ah specifically about them, like name them and go through the details as much as they've ah allowed for, right? We set a container of what's okay to share with others and clarified that.
00:33:07
Speaker
um Usually it's just new name, new pronouns. It's not extensive, right? We're not going into And they were born 1973, you know, like ah really keeping it simple.
00:33:19
Speaker
um But then going through, you know, some of the human rights legislation in cases. So people have that context. So understand this is important. and Then go through the specifics of how to interact and whatnot.
00:33:33
Speaker
What's really key is at the end, we have time for Q&A. And that's where people can really get into where they're stuck. ah And so that we don't, translate that onto the trans individual.
00:33:45
Speaker
Because usually people just need a safe place to digest and go to where their mind is at, and then kind of work with that, unpack help them, you know, get more up to speed, or give them strategies for how to navigate different situations. um Mistake recovery is like the biggest one.
00:34:05
Speaker
um And maybe even giving them a little opportunity to practice that too, so that It's not the first time they're doing it. It doesn't feel so awkward. um So those those are some crucial things with live.
00:34:18
Speaker
ah But certainly ah live is not the only way. I know some organizations really struggle to schedule everybody in one sitting. And so that's where self-paced options on, we have on-demand courses at different levels that allow for folks to take that at their own pace and leisure.
00:34:39
Speaker
We have one specific to managers or leaders that, that are dealing with before, during and after coming out. So it's specifically geared ah with, with those best practices in mind. So that's a really great resource ah for folks to, to lean into. So um between those two pretty well covered.
Prepared Toolkits vs. Improvised Responses
00:35:00
Speaker
um Can I close up this with ah just at going back again to the toolkit and how like you've, you've kind of outlined all of this and like what the steps look like, but, um,
00:35:12
Speaker
Without a toolkit, what does this tend to look like if you if you don't have one in place? Yes. So um typically it looks like a lot of scrambling and a lot of hair on fire, just like, ah you know, I could just imagine somebody running through the hallway with hair, a fire.
00:35:31
Speaker
so i mean, it's not too far off emotionally, maybe. um and I can totally feel that too. Like, of course, on other topics, I can very much resonate with that feeling of like, oh, crap.
00:35:44
Speaker
you know, we didn't think this through and now we're having to like scramble to, to figure something out. Unfortunately, also ah people can not take it seriously. That's another kind of risk factor is because there's nothing in writing. It's like, well, anything goes. Maybe if I think about it, I will, but I don't really need to because there's been no context for understanding or ah setting um parameters or expectations for how
00:36:18
Speaker
to specifically respect a trans or non-binary employee. um So it could you can kind of span the like not doing anything and kind of it's a free fall, which does risk ah more of the human rights troubles um we've seen in in a few cases, ah all the way to this kind of hyper um ah anxiety of like, holy crap, we didn't think this through. And now,
00:36:48
Speaker
we feel like you have to do double time in a way that actually increases that trans person's level of stress. um And not for lack of, there's goodwill behind that, but it actually doesn't help.
00:37:02
Speaker
and Unfortunately, it's just like everybody's shoulders are up to their ears. And so you just, if there's something, even if it's simple, just outlined a bit ah that can avoid all of that for everyone involved.
00:37:20
Speaker
and everybody is a lot clearer. It doesn't mean it solves all the issues either. I don't want to over index on the value of this, but it it does do a lot of heavy lifting.
00:37:31
Speaker
And I think that's beneficial to to no matter who somebody is, whether manager, human resources, the trans individual, or ah colleagues or coworkers.
00:37:44
Speaker
What would you say are some things that maybe people wouldn't have even thought about when it comes to industry-specific situations? Yeah, so there's a few different aspects of the coming out process that ah if it's not on a manager or human resources radar, it can often be overlooked and then cause problems down the road or surprises, maybe not problems, but like, oh shoot, we didn't think about this.
00:38:11
Speaker
One aspect is travel. If an employee is traveling for an organization, maybe going to a conference or going to clients, and even
Travel and Documentation Concerns for Trans Employees
00:38:22
Speaker
across the U.S. border and this moment is a little dicey, maybe a lot dicey.
00:38:27
Speaker
ah So it's not just about the laws, but it's actually about the documentation that that individual has. So if they're flying with an outdated license,
00:38:39
Speaker
piece of ID, whether they're going by a different name or maybe their appearance has changed. This can present challenges when going through security or even checking in in flights.
00:38:50
Speaker
So just having a conversation to be like, hey, you're traveling. just want to see if there's anything that we we should support or that we need to support you with, right? So not saying that they need to be heavy handed with it, but just opening it up for conversation where somebody be like, yeah, actually my ID at X, Y, and z and I'd rather not travel and I'd rather go to the conference virtually, right? So at least they can register that desire.
00:39:17
Speaker
um Even if it's temporary, that's an important thing. Or they go, hey, no problem. ah I've done dealt with security a lot. I know how to do this. And just let them know, hey, if we need a backup plan, happy to set that in place so that you feel safe and confident.
00:39:33
Speaker
ah But really just working with them, so meeting them where they're at. Another thing is if somebody has their name on any like reports or patents or anything with kind of authorship, ah that's another really important thing to talk through.
00:39:49
Speaker
Do they want those retroactively changed to their current name? ah Do they want, um are they okay with leaving it as is? ah Those can present challenges to folks.
00:40:02
Speaker
um And even if they haven't thought that through, they will really appreciate that being raised to know that, oh, you know what my situation or my issues could be. and we're anticipating them and talking them through.
00:40:15
Speaker
Because I'll just share, I mean, what's humorous to me now, but was stressful at the moment. I used to work in the mining industry and I was in a meeting ah with people who didn't know that I was trans and they shared one of my past reports and they said, we want you base this new report on this past report.
00:40:37
Speaker
And they said my birth name and i was like, oh, right. So ah That presented a moment of like, do I say this is my report or do I let it slide?
00:40:48
Speaker
I chose not to. It seemed like not the right moment to go into my extensive history to claim that as my report. um Right. Right. But i you know, at the end, they said, oh, we'll send you the rap report. i was like, don't worry, I've already got it. So um these are the things that if you talk about authorship, or things that their names are on, that can hopefully ah help with some of that.
00:41:15
Speaker
Some people, they're okay with keeping their past name. Others wish to kind of expunge it everywhere. So It's good to talk about that. ah One last example, there's many other unique considerations, but these are just three to put them on your radar, is um some jobs require more hands-on, physical and labor, and they involve tools.
00:41:40
Speaker
And tools can change or be different based on people's levels of strength. ah Some can help kind of increase somebody's physical strength in ah in a job.
00:41:52
Speaker
And so it is important to not talk about people's gender affirming journey. That's a very private matter, but more to say, you want to keep an open line of communication if you need to change your tool set, right?
00:42:08
Speaker
um And it's not making a determination one way or another, but just knowing that the employee can come back and say, actually, I realize that either their strength has increased or decreased and they need to change tools. So it's just open, dynamic forms of communication about those aspects. And that's just for any organization or company that deals with physical labor.
00:42:34
Speaker
Amazing. Okay. If you... have any thoughts or questions that you would like us to speak about in future episodes, then you can email us at podcast at trans focus.ca.
00:42:44
Speaker
Um, or you can find us on social media. Hi, where can they find you? All the social medias or maybe not all of them, but many of them. So, uh, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, uh, blue sky, Tik TOK, YouTube,
00:43:00
Speaker
threads. We've got a lot of great tips and tools that we have weekly posts for you to continue the learning journey on gender diversity. Sweet.
00:43:11
Speaker
Thank you so much. Yeah, this was great. I really appreciate it. And yeah hope you all have a good rest of your day. See you later. Bye for now.