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What''s in a Name?
20 Plays1 month ago
For trans and non-binary people, choosing a name can be one of the first steps in recognising who we are - and asking the world to do the same.
In this episode, we explore the deep meaning that names can hold. You’ll hear personal stories about the search for a name that feels like home, and the joy and affirmation that come when it finally fits. We also talk about what it feels like when the wrong name is used - by people, by systems… and by those who mean well but still miss the mark.
We get into the messy realities too: navigating mismatches between legal and chosen names, how to talk about past names with care and what organizations can do when their systems fall short.
This conversation is about identity, belonging and what it means to be truly seen. Whether you’re trans, non-binary or someone trying to better support the people around you, this episode offers plenty to reflect on. Got some ideas about how we can improve the podcast?! We’ve made a short, painless survey to find out what you think, what you want more of... and what topics you'd love to hear us cover next. Let us know your thoughts here! ___________
Want to get in touch? Contact us at podcast@transfocus.ca
Join us on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | TikTok | Threads | Facebook
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Transcript
Introduction to Gender in Focus
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Gender in Focus podcast. I'm El and each week I get to ask Kai Scott, the president of TransFocus Consulting, all the questions you have ever wanted to ask about trans and non-binary people in the workplace and in the wider world.
00:00:18
Speaker
This is who you are and this is how you'll grow up to be. There's a lot of baked in assumptions and pressures to that name.
The Importance of Chosen Names
00:00:29
Speaker
Deadnaming is basically any time you use somebody's past name and it just tells you the emotional weight that we were talking about before with which people don't want to hear Like it's that name is literally dead to them.
00:00:48
Speaker
What's in a name? For trans and non-binary people, the answer is so much. In this episode, we explore why chosen names matter so deeply and what it means when others get it wrong.
00:01:01
Speaker
You'll learn how to navigate mismatches between legal and chosen names, how to handle past names with care, and how organizations can protect privacy and dignity when systems fall short.
00:01:13
Speaker
We'll also hear powerful personal stories on how trans people choose their first names and the identity, healing and freedom that come with it. ah Let's get into it. I'm really excited to talk about affirming someone's name.
00:01:26
Speaker
That isn't just about being polite, that it's actually life affirming. And I'm joined by my esteemed colleague, El. ah How are you doing? I'm doing very well, thank you. How you? i'm doing well also, yeah.
00:01:40
Speaker
And I'm excited to to unpack this very important topic that gets a little less attention than pronouns, but I think is equally or equally important.
Legal vs. Chosen Names
00:01:52
Speaker
Yeah, when people think about trans experiences, I think there not that many conversations about like first names and chosen names and the whole experience behind that. So what is a chosen first name and why does it like what makes it different to a legal first name?
00:02:06
Speaker
So yes, difference between chosen and legal first name. These are very important distinctions that for some, they may not know that this is a thing.
00:02:17
Speaker
But certainly for many trans and non-binary folks, it is at play. So legal first name, I think most people can guess. It's what's on your official government-issued ID. Usually it's, you know, the name we were given at birth.
00:02:30
Speaker
And what's really important to note is that our names are often gendered, so they're specific to a particular gender. So if I say the name Anna, we might automatically conclude that this is a girl or a woman, and which is not always the case, but many people assume.
00:02:51
Speaker
and similarly for other types of names. And then our chosen first name, especially for trans and non-binary folks, is one that they choose that aligns with their gender identity, ah which might be different from what was assumed based on how they were born.
00:03:06
Speaker
And either another gender, specific a different gender-specific name or gender-neutral name, depends on the individual, what's right for them. But any any case, they choose that. And because it's so difficult to change one's Official government ID, either it's very costly and or it takes a long time. It's not a very straightforward process.
00:03:28
Speaker
Most staff are not trained in government or other other places to change the documentation for first names. They are for last names, but not for first names. And so it could last up to a year. It did for me, took a whole year and I'm very organized person, like my color coded his spreadsheets and, you know, going through them very persistent.
00:03:51
Speaker
ah But still, and for me, between two countries, it costs $1,000. So that's not something everybody can afford, right? Right. Oh my gosh.
00:04:03
Speaker
Yeah. It's, um, it's a pretty penny and, you know, all kinds of things need to be changed. Uh, passports, driver's licenses, healthcare cards, uh, degrees, you know, as I started to go in the process, I was like more and more things. i was like, Oh yeah, this needs to be changed, you know, on and on and on.
00:04:22
Speaker
Yeah. Anyways. Not everybody can afford that. Not everybody has the time because you have to do it during operating hours and are working um nine to five jobs. They can't get time off, et cetera, et cetera. Anyways, so there can be a lag time between when people, if they choose to change their name legally, ah update it. And so that's where the chosen name is an important distinction from, could be different than the legal first name.
Using Chosen Names Officially
00:04:53
Speaker
So when it comes to hearing somebody's chosen first name and you were saying about how it can, how in a lot of cases it is different to people's legal documentation. Often that is the the sort of legal name is the name that people use most frequently when it comes to sort of like, I don't know, ah workplaces or just general general life. People get to kind of hear that a lot when they're trying to avoid it really. And so could you go into why why it is so important to use a trans person's chosen name um or anyone's chosen name actually, if if ah they've changed their name.
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's such an important question because we in society give a lot of priority to legal first name. Like that has kind of a weight behind it.
00:05:41
Speaker
And people think it's the official name of any person when they don't realize the complexities behind the scene and that somebody might be trying to actively change it, but it's very laborious. Yeah.
00:05:53
Speaker
um and But yeah, if you're going to any kind of legally based organization, healthcare, care workplace, you know, the some of the ones that you mentioned, they're going to rely heavily and maybe only look at legal first name and not even have on their radar to check in to see if there's a chosen name that's different from their legal first name.
00:06:20
Speaker
And of course, it's not just about trans people. You're right. um Other people have either two or more names that they go by. um Immigration is usually a big factor in that um people come from abroad and take on an anglicized name to make things easier. Sadly, I would hope that we could figure it out to to use their actual name. But in any case, people make the decisions that are right for them.
00:06:47
Speaker
And so, you know, when there's just this overemphasis on legal first name, it unfortunately puts a lot of people either in a precarious position or just in a very challenging position because that name is referenced over and over and over again.
00:07:04
Speaker
And with somebody's legal name that's different from their chosen name, that means it's their past name. So it's attached to um the gender that people thought they were at birth.
00:07:15
Speaker
And so there can be a lot of pain associated with that name. So hearing it over and over, and or having it referenced or getting a letter with that name um you know getting a phone call and somebody says you know are you so and so so just like kind of everywhere you turn it's there um and yeah it just presents so many challenges for folks you know logistical challenges are one thing but there's also the emotional side of the the equation Could you go into that a little bit like what that actually looks like for folks because I think maybe some people don't necessarily even get what the big deal is and I kind of get this a lot ah just a sort of on a personal thing I don't I haven't changed my name or anything but I do use a shortened version of my longer name and it's like it's quite frustrating when people refuse to use it I think that it's like interesting that people don't necessarily think of it as a big deal but it's so much more than
00:08:10
Speaker
I think people equate it with just having a nickname, right, and in a lot of cases. And it's so much deeper than that. Yeah, it's the kind of presumption. when and When we're named, of course, you know, there's a lot of thought and love that goes into it, I'm sure. Maybe not all families that way, but certainly many of them.
00:08:33
Speaker
And, you know, there's also a bit of presumption in there, right? Of like, this is who you are, and this is how you'll grow up to be. There's a lot of baked in assumptions and pressures to that name as well.
00:08:49
Speaker
So it's it's especially because like I was saying, it's so usually tied to a particular gender. Yeah. And so it just, puts a lot of pressure on folks.
00:08:59
Speaker
Of course, not just trans and non-binary folks. I mean, really everybody i imagine has some degree of this type of pressure, but it's, it's in the name and it, I don't think we realize how often first names are used. It's like yeah multiple dozens of times a day.
00:09:17
Speaker
And when people, especially if if somebody has made the effort to say, hey, I go by this name, right? Yeah. And people are like, nah, maybe not even actively nah, but just like, maybe if I get around to it, I'll think about it.
00:09:36
Speaker
Or if I remember, I'll do it, but not with the intentional of like, oh, this is very important to you. um And I'm going to take some time to make sure I can can make this happen, right? Because this is really important.
00:09:50
Speaker
And if people just kind of ignore it, that says, I know you better than you. And even if people don't intend for that message to be sent, that's the kind of sum of the subtext of it.
00:10:01
Speaker
And it can be really harmful, especially on a repeat basis, to the point where it can people socially isolate. It's just too much for them to hear this on a loop and for others not to understand the severity of what's happening.
00:10:16
Speaker
um This, of course, parallels with pronouns, but I think there's something deeper about it because it's unique. Like pronouns, the it's a set used for you know a group of people.
00:10:29
Speaker
But you, the the name given or chosen by someone, that's very intimate. And if it's shared and then rejected, even if it's not active rejection, if it's like more of an afterthought, it still hurts.
00:10:43
Speaker
For sure. What about...
Correcting Name Mistakes
00:10:45
Speaker
if there are situations where a legal first name really has to be used. um Obviously, there are going to be some situations where it's not enough to just use somebody's chosen name, which is really frustrating.
00:10:59
Speaker
But um how can how can people handle that in a way that's still sensitive and and kind of respecting ah that person? Yeah. I mean, there are a few, i wouldn't say all of them, but a handful, a small handful of places where legal names are needed or not needed, but they need to be referenced um because it kind of follows a consistency. So people...
00:11:26
Speaker
can It's attributed. One example is pay stubs. And many trans and non-binary people are aware of this. um It's not ideal, but and mean, certain places, you know, Canadian Revenue Agency probably needs to, you know, figure out a few things so amongst other organizations. I won't say they're the only ones, but...
00:11:47
Speaker
you know um I mean, I appreciate logistically, too, you're going to go to the bank, and if that's still in your legal name, like there needs to be a consistency there. Now, of course, it's not that's one of a few places.
00:12:00
Speaker
um And when staff who are handling this type of information, there's a few things that they can keep in mind. One is to be aware or even to ask for if there's a different name if you're interacting with someone, right?
00:12:16
Speaker
Just because it needs to be recorded, it doesn't need to be said out loud or it doesn't need to be active in an interaction. You can actually just point at something and be like, okay, I recognize your legal name is this, but how should I refer to during our interactions?
00:12:32
Speaker
That's a beautiful question because then people are like a space has been provided, especially if there's not a field in a system for somebody to provide that. And then now you have this way to build rapport because you're able to address them properly, irrespective of what's on the document.
00:12:49
Speaker
Another thing is to be really careful about the keeping that legal first name private. So legal names tend to, among many people, not be treated very confidentially.
00:13:05
Speaker
But because there's a difference between somebody's chosen first name and their legal first name in terms of the perceptions of the genders attached to those people could figure out if somebody is trans or non-binary, right?
00:13:18
Speaker
The difference between Tom and Tanya, like people can kind of connect the dots. And so let's keep that legal first name as protected as possible. So not putting it on a directory, right?
00:13:34
Speaker
ah For everybody to see. Or um yeah, just, yeah or Or saying it to another colleague that just doesn't need to know that. And ah kind of burying it and highlighting as much as possible the chosen name so that somebody can use that properly if they come across that person's file.
00:13:54
Speaker
Those are just a few examples. And it's it's quite simple, really. You're not really asking for a huge system change when it comes to things like that. I mean, of course, there's like system changes that are great too, but a lot of that isn't really anything to do with that.
00:14:09
Speaker
And sometimes systems change takes a while, right? Especially information systems can take one or two years to get something new off the ground. And so in the interim, you can still be nice to people. I know it sounds, you're right, it does sound simple, but I think people, especially frontline staff, they're handling so much that, you know, this is probably one other thing that is now on their radar, which is good, right but I can appreciate there's so much, like they're like, ah, okay, probably handling lots of detail and putting out fires and whatnot.
00:14:44
Speaker
But I don't think it's too difficult or too much of an ask. um And in doing so, a lot of upset is avoided, and which can escalate and make, you know work and that person's experience that much more difficult and when it doesn't need to be.
00:15:01
Speaker
So what if someone makes a mistake? If somebody is, let's take a frontline ah member of staff or even just colleagues and leaders in general, if they have accidentally used the wrong name, what what can they do? Yeah.
00:15:17
Speaker
So kind of a repair that. Yeah, it's so important. but i mean, acknowledging a mistake, just like any other mistake is really important. I think it depends on if there's kind of two main scenarios. It's if um you've never seen this person before and you're just relying on the legal first name, but there's no other field for chosen. So it's like, how would you know?
00:15:41
Speaker
Right. In which case you're likely to make an error, not because you weren't aware, you're not trying. It's just, it's, you're not set up for success, sadly. And that's a reality that happens quite often, in which case you just say, oh, ah my apologies.
00:15:56
Speaker
Thank you so much for sharing your name so that I know how to reference you properly. Right. So there's ways to recover, even if it wasn't your mistake. Right. Because sometimes people can be a bit defensive to be like, I mean, it's the system. Like what am I, my hands are tied, you know?
00:16:11
Speaker
Yeah. But that kind of approach isn't very sensitive to what somebody is experiencing, not just there, but like so many other places. Like this is on repeat in a very awful way.
00:16:24
Speaker
So even just a ah light, touch of like, my bad, or even if you didn't mean to just like, I'm so sorry. Yeah, we we have some system limitations. We're aware of them, we flagged them, we're working on them.
00:16:37
Speaker
In the meantime, you can also offer a hey, you know, I could put your name in the comment section here on our system. And maybe that will help um for the next and employee so that they don't misname you. Would you like that?
00:16:52
Speaker
Right. Always want to ask for consent, um but that's another option available. The other scenario in which misnaming or what some people call dead naming happens. So but dead naming is basically any time you use somebody's past name and it just tells you the emotional weight that we were talking about before with which people don't want to hear it. Like it's, that name is literally dead to them, right?
00:17:18
Speaker
So that's something that they've put it away. Uh, and, gives you the gravity of the situation. So say, for example, you have a colleague that recently came out and said, hey, i go by a different name, maybe even different pronouns, and you're still struggling to maybe you've known this person for six plus years and it that old name is ingrained in your brain.
00:17:43
Speaker
You know, there's a natural scenario in which you are likely to make mistakes, especially at the outset, in which case, it's still important to acknowledge that to be like, hey, ah my I'm so sorry, i i misnamed you, and then repeat the proper name.
00:17:58
Speaker
And If it tends to happen quite a bit, it is important to set aside time to practice it. um If, you know, it's just, if you find yourself having difficulties, there likely needs to be a bit more attention to it so that it doesn't keep reoccurring.
00:18:15
Speaker
But quick apology and correction are really, really important.
Personal Stories of Name Choosing
00:18:20
Speaker
Can I ask you about how ah the process of people choosing their name and how trans people choose their name? Because I think it's not actually done very often. a lot of people kind of have their name given to them and then that's it.
00:18:34
Speaker
So can I ask you about that? and And if you're okay to share your own story, would you mind? it Oh, for sure. it's your name Yeah, absolutely. It's been a minute since I've thought about it or talked about it. But Essentially, you know, of course, I'm not going to give my previous name, but, you know, I was born given a particular name.
00:18:54
Speaker
And it was, I was, you know, it's a big task to think of a new name, right? um To reflect and honor oneself, because of course, you're one continuous person, even if you're changing your name midstream.
00:19:09
Speaker
Um, and, but also wanting to honor my gender just took a long time. I was, one thing that really resonated for me growing up is my friends called me my last name, which is Scott as my first name, you know, typically, you know, especially in like a sports context, people say people's last names. It's very common in the UK to refer to people like that. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, in school.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah. And there's like a a familiarity to it. There's like camaraderie. I don't know. I really enjoyed it. And also for for me, i mean, of course, at that point, I couldn't quite piece it together is that it was gender affirming to hear Scott, right?
00:19:49
Speaker
i was like, dang, that sounds really great. was a little too excited about this. and um So when I first came out as trans, I was like, well, maybe I'll just change my, I'll take my last name as my first name.
00:20:04
Speaker
And then choose another last name. And ah shared this with my sister who was not pleased. And she's like, you are not leaving the family. She read me the riot act.
00:20:15
Speaker
And upon further reflection, she was absolutely right. so it I had to go back to the drawing board after that. And I was like, okay, so it's not going to be Scott. Fine. What what else could it be? And you know you're reading through different lists and seeing if things pop out at you or ah you know different baby name lists and whatnot. And i just none of them really spoke to me. And I was really struggling and putting a lot of time and effort into it because it's a big moment at Christmas.
00:20:45
Speaker
probably don't want to change my name again, given how long and laborious process. And then one day in the morning, I woke up from a dream and I was i said out loud, Kai.
00:20:57
Speaker
And then i went about to look up all the meanings or look up the meaning of Kai. And there's like six or seven different meanings across the, around the world. And each one of them spoke to me. So in German, because I grew up in Germany, so that felt resonant, it means industrious, which i am.
00:21:17
Speaker
That is you, yeah. little worker bee. um There's, ah in Japan, it means ocean, right? So this kind of sense of ah openness, expansiveness.
00:21:30
Speaker
ah In Navajo, it means willow tree, which also very powerful, like rooted, but flexible, just on and on and on. Every meaning spoke to me.
00:21:41
Speaker
And i was like, that's it. We're done. So yeah, um of course, every story is different. know people come to their names in a different way, but the the main thing is it can be ah a bit circuitous, right? It's not so straightforward. for For many, it feels like a big thing, but also exciting and fun and Sometimes you will have to try a few times. I, you know, didn't really use um Scott as my first name or tried it out, but some people will try one first name and then it doesn't quite fit. And maybe a few weeks, months later, they try another one, right?
00:22:17
Speaker
Just to see, you know, it's kind of, yeah, you want it to fit, right? And you don't always know until you start hearing it. So anyways, it's a bit about my story and and ah more generally the process that people undertake.
00:22:30
Speaker
I love that you dreamt that. that's so That's so interesting. Yeah. pop Dreams can be a powerful conveyor of information um and certainly helps work cut down the work.
00:22:43
Speaker
I checked with my friend. i have a friend, Elizabeth, who's a trans woman, and ah she has a really beautiful story of how her name came to be. her Her story is that she obviously had a name before and her parents had named her. And through her life, they had written her letters.
00:23:00
Speaker
It was really sweet. was like maybe on birthdays or big events, they wrote letters and they had them sort of in a box somewhere. And I think the plan was to give it to her her 25th birthday.
00:23:12
Speaker
But when she was 21, she came out as trans and told her family. And I think there was ah inevitably some nervousness, but I think she always knew that she was going to be accepted and loved. And so that was and not a huge concern there.
00:23:27
Speaker
But when she told her parents, her parents got the box of letters and found the very first one. And it was that we've named you this. And there was a lot of other things in it, but one part of it was about the name that they chose for her and they had named her this name.
00:23:44
Speaker
But if that doesn't work for you, Later down the line, we have these other options too. And you don't have to choose any of these. But if you wanted to, you could. And on there was Elizabeth, among a couple of other names that were ah maybe the sort of gender neutral, but also some some names that are like traditionally masculine as well. And some other names that were traditionally sort of that we associate with with girls and women.
00:24:10
Speaker
And Elizabeth was on there. And so she chose Elizabeth. She also chose a middle name from there as well. Wow. So it was, it was still chosen by her family. It was chosen by her parents and there was something for her. Like I know for some, of some trans people that I know it was really important to them that they chose their name and that they got the choice.
00:24:30
Speaker
And ah obviously that would have been the case for Elizabeth had she wanted that. Um, but for Elizabeth, for my friend, it was very much that it was very special to her that her parents had even considered that that might be an option and that she,
00:24:46
Speaker
Her parents
Parental Influence in Name Choosing
00:24:47
Speaker
still named her. She still had that. I think that that's such a beautiful, I think that's the most beautiful story when it comes to it. Oh my gosh. Yes. i mean that it's even on their radar and that they made space for it and that they did, they did the effort, right? As you're choosing one name is quite, especially something that's going to be for so long. It's a big task and people take it seriously, which is good.
00:25:11
Speaker
But that they added to it is just like so wonderful. and And I think sometimes parents struggle. Parents, you know, during education session are like, what do we do about kids? Like we don't want to force them and just, you know, start, but also be open to something different, in which case, and not only open, but giving options.
00:25:34
Speaker
Wow. Wow. Isn't that so gorgeous? i think there's like a lot of pressure on people who want to ah quote, get it right. is Is that like, maybe there is a thought that you have to choose like a gender neutral name in order to be sort of progressive again in quotes.
00:25:52
Speaker
But actually there are so many options, like even just considering that someone might be trans gives the option for you to, I don't know, i don't think we have to go down the route of making something ah gender neutral. You can just create the conversation.
00:26:10
Speaker
And I don't know, I don't know where i'm going with that. but Yeah, no, I absolutely think that's crucial because you know, certainly with, you know, parents or kids, you know, there, there are pathways that society has created, right?
00:26:24
Speaker
But the, the ability to create space, even within those, those streams, I think is really important. And yeah, so maybe that inspires somebody listening. so Yeah.
00:26:40
Speaker
I, when you were sharing about parents choosing, they do, i mean, my parents chose before I was born, two gendered names.
00:26:52
Speaker
And the other one, the kind of male or men's side of things was Richard. ah So I did consider that, but i was like, I don't know.
00:27:04
Speaker
Richard just very old school, you know? And of course, the shortened version isn't very flattering either, you know? just couldn't see myself as, like, a dick.
00:27:18
Speaker
So i was like, no thanks. So considered. Wow. That's interesting. One thing I forgot to mention about Kai is that the two ah two first letters, well, there's only three letters in Kai, so it's not very long, but the first two letters are actually the first two letters of my past name or my name from birth.
00:27:41
Speaker
And so that also worked out really well. was like my parents began it and I finished it. Right. So it was still collaborative in that sense.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my gosh, Kai, you always make everything cute. Oh, I know. trying to think of it all. Because, of course, like we don't want to or many people don't want to upset their parents. Right. We still want to honor them, but just i'll make a few corrections.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's sweet. I love that.
Conclusion and Social Media
00:28:13
Speaker
Where can we find you on social media, Kai? So there's LinkedIn, there's Instagram, Blue Sky, Facebook, TikTok.
00:28:23
Speaker
That sounds about right. There's a few others in there. You know, basically choose the one that you like. And we have weekly posts there and really cool educational content, little micro learning moments and interactive questions sometimes. So yeah, join us.
00:28:40
Speaker
Amazing. Cool. Well, thank you so much. And see you next time. Yeah, thank you. Bye for now.