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Good Will Hunting (1997)
2 Playsin 12 hours
Movie spoilers abound! We’re watching the 1997 award-winning-movie “Good Will Hunting” and connecting it to Psych references (how ‘bout them apples?!). We follow the wicked smart Will Hunting on his journey through therapy, a math apprenticeship, and relationships in his late teens in Boston, Massachusetts. A rough childhood has made Will take refuge in his found-family gang of friends. We’re talking accents, parental influence, childhood, and more! So put on your favorite college sweatshirt and join Kylie and Skyler on this new episode of Phsysics 101!
Want to keep up with us and new episode drops? Join us on Instagram and Tumblr @phsysics101podcast.
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Transcript
Introduction to Fasci6101 and Topic Announcement
00:00:21
Speaker
All right. everyone and welcome to Fasci6101 where we discuss everything about the world of psych and the antics of Sean and Gus in sunny Santa Barbara. I'm Skylar and this is my partner, Carmine Scarpaglia. And today we'll be talking about good will hunting and its connections to our Fasci6 Foundations course so we can talk about the famed TV show, Psych.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yeah. Exciting. Got mine. Got mine. Got mine.
'Good Will Hunting' Reference in 'Psych'
00:00:53
Speaker
We came upon this because in the wiki for Evening with Mr. Yang, it mentions the references, which he says, I guess it's just in that last scene. He says, how about them apples? Yeah. Well, because Maddie says, go see about a girl.
00:01:13
Speaker
Sean says, like, like haha how do you like them apples? Like, they share a, like, we're making good hunting references yes moment. um But the wiki mentioned, like, how that episode uses an extended metaphor with goodwill hunting, I believe is what it said. Oh.
00:01:31
Speaker
Which I was, like, trying to think about what that they meant by that but i do feel like i can see um that in the abigail story and like the idea of like sean having this fear of letting someone in or making something real and how he uses his intelligence and in his case his humor if like not as much with will hunting's case but uses that all as a defense mechanism to prevent people from getting to know him which he continues to do with Abigail in that episode yeah because he's still pretending
00:02:11
Speaker
ah but yeah so i because I was trying to think of like what is extended about this reference yeah but i I could see it it kind of reminded me of like Real Genius a little bit these you know ideas of
00:02:32
Speaker
the pressures on a person who is of a higher intelligence or um expectations and like the idea of throwing it all away. Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:49
Speaker
something yes easier maybe Yeah, I think some of the themes that we see in the movie are, are as you're saying, similar to kind of the themes that we've been talking about.
Themes of Intelligence and Intimacy in 'Good Will Hunting'
00:03:00
Speaker
um I don't know if if I had seen Good Will Hunting and remembered it because I remembered like none of this movie. I have never seen it.
00:03:10
Speaker
I saw it as a, I was recommended it, I remember, as a high schooler and I watched it enough at least to remember that there's a Skyler in the movie and the general premise, which was, you know, he's really really intelligent and and like gets kind of roped into doing math and things um but i don't necessarily know if having watched that beforehand and then watching the psych episode if i would have been like ah yes extended metaphor towards goodwill hunting um or like extended reference to goodwill hunting um i think maybe some of the like
00:03:49
Speaker
you know, whimsy or like childlike kind of wonder that we see in, in psych. I do feel like we kind of see as well in Goodwill Hunting of him just like wanting to have a good time and and wanting him to enjoy in him wanting to enjoy like the decisions that he makes, like not everything needs to be so serious for Will. And in fact, when things get real serious, he's like, I'm out, you know? Yeah.
00:04:14
Speaker
Don't make me do it. You know, he sends Ben Affleck instead to go to a big interview, you know? That was that was like my biggest laugh of the movie. It was really funny. then in there um Yeah, it's interesting. like Yeah, I could definitely see...
00:04:33
Speaker
a kinship but in the characters i don't know that yeah like in the writing they were actively like oh this is a goodwill hunting thing and i feel like they they do that so often and so well that if it was intentionally a goodwill hunting reference i think it would have i think we would have got it a little bit more if you know what i mean yeah well and never having seen it i don't yeah I wonder if you were like a big Good Will Hunting fan. if you If you would be like, oh, this is just like Good Will Hunting. Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe. But i I don't know. It does feel more subtle. I mean, but I could see it, you know, kind of as they're working with the story and working with the character of Sean and stuff being like,
00:05:17
Speaker
recognizing those similarities and then like textualizing it by having those yeah references there maybe more than like a direct being like let's tell a story that's like goodwill hunting yeah yeah um But yeah.
00:05:36
Speaker
I really enjoyed this movie. I, it it kind of wrecked me. I sobbed like hysterically multiple times. like i did. I also cried. i was like, Oh my God. And everyone was so good in this
Impact on Damon and Affleck's Careers
00:05:50
Speaker
movie. Robin Williams was like fantastic.
00:05:53
Speaker
And, um, Yeah, Will Damon was really great. um Will Damon. Matt Damon was really great. Clearly, they just meshed together in my mind. Yeah. um And this, I found out, I was like talking to my mom about it afterwards because I was just like, no one told me this movie was going to make me cry.
00:06:10
Speaker
was not mentally prepared for crying today. Yeah. but But my mom was saying this is what, like, catapulted Matt Damon and Ben Affleck's career. And they wrote the dang thing. I was like, oh my gosh. That's so, like, that's so cool.
00:06:27
Speaker
Yeah. And they were obviously very young. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So little. So little. and um And, you know, it did kind of, could see... um You said a a kinship.
00:06:44
Speaker
There were parts of it where I was like, this just feels like a couple of best friends making a movie. Like when it was ah Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Casey Affleck. And I don't remember the the fourth gentleman's name, but that like group of four ah friends when they were sitting together, making jokes. I'm like, they literally probably just sat in this room for like an hour and just...
00:07:06
Speaker
spit out random nonsense and pick the best parts you know yeah my husband after watching it because this has been on his list of movies to have me watch for a long time so I was like okay watch this one with me then um but he was like looking up trivia and there was a lot about like improvisation in those scenes oh yeah and Robin Williams improvising and stuff so yeah i'm sure Vibes were high on that set. Yeah. And I think you could feel like it it made sense, this idea of like found family and loyalty and all of that. like it It was really imbued into the characters, I think, by the fact that they clearly were friends, you know?
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah. Which is kind of cool. But yeah, i I enjoyed it. I thought it was very thought it was very good. Yeah, some of the lines I thought were great.
00:08:03
Speaker
Made me laugh, made me cry. and know there was times where I was just like, why are you doing this? I know. I did think it did a good job of like, I guess like humbling everybody in the movie. Yeah, totally. Like the professor, of course, but also Will, like, you know, because you're like rooting for him. But then also I'm like...
00:08:25
Speaker
Like, don't be an idiot. Being dumb. Yes. Stop being And he like, you know, because they set him up, obviously, as this kind of, like, prodigy. and
00:08:39
Speaker
But I like that he was still very flawed how he was approaching... his life was like, like he didn't have it all figured out just because he could solve this math problem. Yeah. um Yeah. But it is funny, like never having seen it and it being such a classic yeah fixture in popular culture, like recognizing those lines. And then, and also like, I've seen the cover, you know, which is Matt Damon and Robin Williams.
00:09:17
Speaker
I feel like I, you know, maybe I've heard a log line or something and I always kind of assumed that Robin Williams was the janitor. I don't know why. feel like I think of like a more grown-up person being janitor. Yeah, yeah.
00:09:29
Speaker
Um... ah So it was, yeah, it was just unexpected, even though it's sort of like in the common consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was interesting, too, that, I mean, Robin Williams didn't really come into the movie until like a third of the way through it. Like we had a good, I want to say 40 minutes of Robin Williams at all.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it was, it I was kind of like watching it, like, or thinking about it. You know, structure-wise, I think it was like exactly 30 minutes when oh no he, um when the other professor went and found him. And I'm like, oh, there's the turning point. um But, yeah.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah, that dynamic was also
Parental Dynamics and Expectations
00:10:15
Speaker
interesting. The two professors. It was so, yeah, it it almost reminded me of like parents.
00:10:24
Speaker
Like parents to Will. Like they both have like these different, and don't want to say like agendas, but like kind of. Yeah. ah Different agendas of what they want, what they expect of Will. And um they clearly already have a backstory of their own in the way in which they communicate with each other. and ultimately having to or should they should put aside those differences for will it was just kind of interesting to see play out um in a more in in a not parental setting um for yeah but for this kid who was an orphan who probably never really had to deal with um
00:11:06
Speaker
Well, I don't know. Actually, he dealt with a lot of shit, so I don't really know. But yeah, i thought I just thought it was interesting, the dynamic between the two of them. um Yeah, and they're very, very clear motives of one just wanting him to be successful for himself.
00:11:20
Speaker
And the other one just wanting whatever Will wanted, essentially. Yeah, but I do think you're right that he never really dealt with like A parent's unlived life being projected on him. Like the kinds of relationships he had with his foster parents, obviously, were not, I mean, were also, you know, not parental. and Right, yeah, not people who cared about him.
00:11:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:48
Speaker
Is that, yeah, Professor, what's face? Yeah, the Skarsgård. Yes. ah Jerry, what was his last name? you know look Something with an L. Lambeau?
00:12:02
Speaker
Lambeau, there you go. Yeah, like there's that one moment in his in the big blowout with Minnie Driver. That was the hardest for me to watch.
00:12:16
Speaker
it was so bad. um But when he was like, do I have like a sign on my back? Yes, exactly. yeah um Because it it would be kind of
00:12:34
Speaker
just like a wild experience to all at once when nobody has ever cared about what happens to you to like all of a sudden be the subject of all of this attention and um all of these sort of competing desires for your future and stuff and confronted with all these different sides of like the world that you haven't been exposed to like all these companies that jerry is trying to set him up with but it was also interesting how robin williams observed that like he could be a janitor anywhere but right he ended up or he want like did he go to this job at my yeah because it's like he does have this
00:13:21
Speaker
This yearning. Yeah. One, I think it's kind of, you know, he talks, Robin Williams talks about how um he's like got this deep sense of loyalty to his friends. I think, you know, Will kind of has competing interests in the respect that he, yeah probably has this yearning to be something For that intellect that he has. Then at the same time not leaving his friends and leaving the the place that has, you know, nurtured him and actually cared about him. And and just what he knows. Like he's so afraid. Yeah.
00:13:57
Speaker
I mean, it's fair. No one's been there to, you know.
Will's Loyalty and Fear of Leaving
00:14:01
Speaker
For him to fall back on, like, ever, other than his friends. So taking a big leap, I can see that being tough. But that one scene with Ben Affleck when they're, like, in the construction zone outside the car, which also, that was when they commented that they're not yet 21 and they've been drinking this entire movie. I know. I was like, wait.
00:14:19
Speaker
What? I literally was like, they've been sitting in bars. Like, is this just what what Boston was like in the I was like, did just no one care? I mean, maybe. I know, I was wondering about that, too. Yeah, I was like, what the heck?
00:14:32
Speaker
Whatever. But Ben Affleck was like, i'm if I wake up 10 years from now and you're still here, I'm going to kill you. Yeah. Yeah, that was an interesting conversation, too, because, like, clearly they've never had that conversation.
00:14:46
Speaker
Like, Will had no idea that. his friends were looking to him to do something more than that, like what they were, they would be able to do.
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah. Like when he said, when he said the line, the best 10 seconds of my day is when I come and pick you up in the morning and I walked to your front door and I hope you're just going to have left. you know. That's so sad. And then at the end, what he did and he was smiling. I was like, so many tears.
00:15:20
Speaker
seventeen Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, I think part of that, too, is as someone who genuinely cares about somebody else, you want what's best for them.
00:15:34
Speaker
hmm. whatever that is and in this case they know that will has got the brains like what my my dude's wicked smart yeah and i also feel like like it'd be one thing kind of like like that conversation that he does have with robin williams about like you know when he defends trades and like yeah you know honest work and like how like it's it's honorable work to, you know, be a janitor, to be working at gas station or whatever, which is like, and he, Robin Williams is like, yeah, I'm sure that's why you're doing that, which is funny. Yeah. yeah But, um but Will clearly has so much like frustration and he's so bored with like life. Yeah. With like his current state and even in his life,
00:16:30
Speaker
um in working with jerry he's like complaining about how he doesn't like even that's boring to him because jerry doesn't get the things that he gets and stuff and so it's like it's clear that he wants like he wants that stimulation but he's just like so afraid to to leave what's comfortable and familiar yeah and i wonder if part of it too is almost like a like a why me kind of a thing. You know, he's got all these other people that he, he loves and cares about with him. And he's only one with like these crazy brains, you know?
00:17:14
Speaker
So maybe it is kind of like a, Yeah, why why me? Can I leave all of these people that I love and care about and that love and care about me to go do all those other things when I didn't ask for this?
00:17:27
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, did you ever watch The West Wing? I did watch The West Wing. I believe it was actually under your recommendation. Probably. Anyway, I feel like this has come up.
00:17:37
Speaker
um but there's that scene where josh lyman gets the card or whatever with like the instructions for what to happen in a nuclear attack like uh-huh and he finds out that nobody else got one like none of his friends got one and it like tortures him for the whole episode and then he like finally goes back to the security guy and he's like i can't yeah i can't be the one of the people who gets out um So yeah, I could see. yeah Just that line.
00:18:07
Speaker
Just that line. I can't a person who gets out. Yeah. like I can't be the one who gets away from all of this by like sheer luck of the draw, essentially. Yeah.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:22
Speaker
And yeah, it was so like, just the way they would talk about like, even Robin Williams, like sort of literally comparing scars, like just like the cycles of violence in this community and stuff. And it's like, the you know, it's so, it's hard to,
00:18:42
Speaker
understand you know like why you could come from that and like want to stay there but also it's like it's would be so hard to leave when yeah you you know your family like Ben Affleck and all these other people like are also there like they're also stuck there know I don't know they they clearly like love their community and for what it is kind of but yeah it's
00:19:14
Speaker
Some rough.
Emotional Release and Acceptance
00:19:15
Speaker
Yeah. It was. Yeah. It was definitely.
00:19:21
Speaker
yeah There were some really intense. Things that were happening. Things that had happened. To Will. Things that.
00:19:32
Speaker
We didn't get as much from. Robin Williams character. Sean. But were kind of like hinted at. And it feels like intense in the moment. But I feel also kind of like.
00:19:44
Speaker
psych does when we have like a very intense thing we would then go to them like drinking in a bar laughing about like something raunchy and cor gross and you'd be like haha okay everything's all right for a minute until you know you get to the therapist's office and then robin williams character is like it's not your fault yeah that was it's not your fault i let me i so bad I felt like there was a lot of like actor porn in this movie where like you know the characters would have this... like well i don't I don't know if this is a real term, but just like they would have these like monologues or these scenes where I was like, oh yeah.
00:20:26
Speaker
they yeah like They love that. They ate that up. I feel like ah from ah from an actor-y like standpoint,
00:20:38
Speaker
i was really you know Will has so many different confrontations and these high-octane
00:20:48
Speaker
interactions and stuff, but he doesn't cry the whole movie until that scene, which is like it makes it such a release. um And from a performance stand standpoint, like it's so much more powerful to see him cry then as this little boy. huh he like he's really is. I feel like that was what was so...
00:21:09
Speaker
about that moment, he really just looks like a little boy and he's like wailing like a little boy. Like it was just like so, and you just like, after just having heard about these horrible things that happened to him all through his childhood, like you just see this tortured little boy and it's just so sad. sad.
00:21:27
Speaker
And it is even more impactful because he has never shown us this kind of emotional release. Yeah. Well, right. And. Yeah, and the whole lead up to him wailing is, you know, so Robin Williams says it's not your fault like 17 times to really get it through Will's head. And in the beginning, he's like, I know.
00:21:51
Speaker
Like, duh. Like, of course I know. like Yeah, it was very rote. Like, maybe he's even been told that before. like Right. i know And I think like i think hum we have this very human ability like all people at times to to intellectualize things, right? To say like from an intellectual standpoint, I know that none of that was my fault. I was a child.
00:22:14
Speaker
I completely understand that, right? But then like deep down from an emotional perspective, right? It didn't really seem like Will got that emotionally until the 15th, 16th time. and And of course, this is hyperbole. I'm exaggerating. But um that Robin Williams said it. Yeah, he probably said it seven times. yeah um But then he finally, he like, he gets it on an emotional level. Yeah. And it's like...
00:22:42
Speaker
Again, we see that fear because he's just like, don't fuck with me. Don't. I know. Like, don't say it. Like. Not you. Not you too. Yeah. Don't fuck with me. Yeah. But then it's like, he really gets through. Yeah. And it's interesting. um The other time we see.
00:23:01
Speaker
Like big emotion from him or the other times that we see big emotion from him we see like anger we don't really see sadness like I'm thinking of there's the the fight which I really did not understand why they were punching this guy but whatever. i was confused about that too but I guess it was his childhood bully which I kind of missed in the moment.
00:23:19
Speaker
I got that part, but I was like, why why are you going to punch him now for no reason? like I thought it was like, at first, because I missed that, I thought like they just, that the guys had like heckled that girl.
00:23:32
Speaker
That's what I thought, that they were going to protect the girl. Yeah. Yeah. Which maybe was maybe that was like an excuse to do something. Okay, that's To after that guy.
00:23:43
Speaker
That's fair. And then we also see it with Minnie Driver in that scene in her college dorm. And he is like pounding on the wall, like right next to her face. Oh, my Which I was like, oh, my God. The circles of violence.
00:24:00
Speaker
I know. Okay. And this is you know, the moot the movie ends with Will riding off to California to go in and meet Skylar. What do you think happens when he gets there?
00:24:15
Speaker
think they and get together you think they make up yeah i was just wondering like because she is she is like broken by the fact that he literally says i don't love you and then but even at the airport she's still looking for him well and she also says you do like i feel like she knows that he is Like she sees him for what he is and all he's, what he's doing.
Complexities of Will's Relationship with Skylar
00:24:40
Speaker
um and like how he's using that anger and stuff. And like he, like he does in that fight reveal some stuff that, and she's like, I didn't know that. She's like, I want to know that. um So I think she has, she has patience for him. And also like when,
00:25:03
Speaker
in those last like 10 minutes of the movie he really does have like a breakthrough and matures significantly I would think like emotionally even though it's not like flipping a switch or anything but maybe more prepared to confront some of the stuff he was unwilling to so I feel like they have a chance and he's 21 know it's crazy they're very young they babies babies
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah, even in that in that scene with Robin Williams, like, you kind of see him go from, like, what you were talking about. Like, first it's just kind of, you know, that initial habit of, like, yeah.
00:25:51
Speaker
And then, like, trying to use the anger. Like, he's going through his defenses. Yes. And then he has none left. Yeah, but then he's just...
00:26:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:09
Speaker
Poor guy. This was definitely a very rough... I mean, a wonderful... Like, I feel like sometimes things can... i how How do I want it?
00:26:22
Speaker
i want to say this. This movie had, like, a lot of really great things happen to Will. And i think that that's... Obviously, that's wonderful for Will. um But I feel like sometimes...
00:26:35
Speaker
that makes like the hard stuff even harder. takes me like It makes it you know feel just a little bit more intense. you know like I think there's a lot of talk from from Robin Williams' character about like the pressure that Will is under. And it's like, yeah, these are all really really great things. He's no longer working as a janitor. He now has all these job opportunities. He's got someone who saved him from going to jail, essentially. He has a girlfriend who seems to love him and adults who seem to, you know, want what's best for him, at least in different facets of his life.
00:27:10
Speaker
But there's also clearly a lot of shit that Will has to deal with on his own. That is, i would say, just the same kind of intensity as the good stuff, but in the opposite direction, which sometimes makes that even harder. um I'm just trying to look up a reference that I caught from the movie, but I want to make sure that they did make it...
00:27:29
Speaker
um Did you catch the Columbo reference in the movie? Oh, I don't know. no. They referenced any old port in a storm. Oh, what'd they say?
00:27:39
Speaker
They were in. Oh, well, I did hear them any old port in a storm. Yes. But I feel like that was also a reference. It could just be a reference to. i don't know. That phrase.
00:27:51
Speaker
I think, but the phrase itself originated from the 1973 Columbo episode, any old port in a storm. Hold on. Let me see. But when we talked about that, didn't we talk about what that was referencing?
00:28:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's older than that. In 1908, the phrase appeared in a popular song entitled Any Old Port in a Storm. But Any Port in a Storm was back to 1749. A 1749 erotic novel.
00:28:22
Speaker
Fanny Hill, Memoirs of a Woman and of Pleasure. That's fun. but He references Howard Zinn and I was like, I read that. It's great book. I know. i was hoping that he would see it on the shelf. Yeah, that would have feel like Robin Williams' character would have known that book and had read it. Read Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States. That book will fucking knock you on your ass. Yeah, well. Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent.
00:28:48
Speaker
You think that's a good book? Can people baffle me?
00:28:52
Speaker
Yes, but I was like... ah We watched a Columbo episode with that. And he poured in a storm. Yeah. Yeah, that was a dense scene. who who was like, yes.
00:29:06
Speaker
Well, he's so, Will is so like, it's funny because You know, that scene in the bar with that Harvard guy. oh my God.
00:29:17
Speaker
That guy is being a real pompous. Douche. Yeah. Jerk. Yeah, he is. And Will kind of gives it right back. But Will also does that. Like, in this scene, he does a very similar thing.
00:29:30
Speaker
Absolutely. and
00:29:34
Speaker
And he is so cocky about like, just really thinks he has it all
Intellectual Superiority as a Defense Mechanism
00:29:40
Speaker
figured out. Has Robin Williams all figured out? Has academia all figured out? Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker
I feel like that's a very 20-year-old thing to do. Yes, exactly. I was going to call him a kid, but he's not a kid. Yeah, very much so. You know, you think... You think you have the world figured out at a very young age because you've only ever seen one particular aspect of the world.
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. so I was really glad to see him taken to task too. Yeah. Because I feel like it could be like a trap of a movie like this could be that he just kind of oo is ahead of everybody else yeah um so i appreciated that especially coming from like robin williams their whole scene on the bench like um like he recognizes you know he has lived a life and and like the way what he tells will about like
00:30:41
Speaker
He says something about like how you can recite all this stuff from all these books. I can read that in a book, but I can't learn about you, which is like exactly what Will gives that Harvard guy shit about. It's like you just got like you're just plagiarizing your opinions from from books you read. um Right. Right.
00:31:03
Speaker
so And it's like you said, to be fair, I mean, Will kind of does that. He does. Robin tell its robin to Sean to keep him at at arm's length, you know. yeah And then when that doesn't work, like you said, he runs through his defense mechanisms. All right, piss him off so that he walks away so that Will doesn't have to deal with him.
00:31:23
Speaker
But he refuses. Robin Williams is like, nope, I see see a little bit of me and you and we're going to do this together. And you're just a kid. And you can read as many things as you want to, but you haven't lived a life. So cut it the fuck out.
00:31:36
Speaker
And let's do some therapy. Which he desperately needed. So i'm I'm glad that he actually stuck with it with Sean. with john Yeah.
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah. And it is kind of, it it feels like that extra step, which we talk about often, but like teaching, like learning how to think, like you can learn a lot from books, but then like that step of like forming your own opinions and critically engaging with them and stuff is like the next thing. And he's still, he seems as as vant as advanced as he is.
00:32:14
Speaker
um There is a lot of like, life that he's like unwilling to engage with because because he's ah afraid or Yeah.
00:32:28
Speaker
Do we know? Do they actually do they come from Boston? Will? ah Will. They do. Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. OK. They famously do. Oh, they do. OK. Because they don't really have their accents anymore. I know. I was like, do they really talk like that? Yeah. That's what I was wondering. wonder they ever did. Yeah.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah. know Or if like when they're together or like with their families, like did the accents come out a little bit more, you know? because they it almost felt like at times they were picking words to emphasize the boston i know like wicked smack like that i was like come on yeah that yeah that's a very boston thing yeah there's a couple others too i was like wow and robin williams's voice was her accent was funny too because it would sound just like robin williamson and suddenly have it yes yes
00:33:19
Speaker
yeah i was Yeah, accents were interesting in this movie. um Even ah Jerry. Where are they from the Skarsgårds? Because he has like a, I want to say Scandinavian, some form of Scandinavian accent. Yeah.
00:33:34
Speaker
But same kind of thing. You could tell like from academia, like from being in the States, sometimes the accent would fluctuate like in and out. Yeah, I feel like that's probably how he talks regularly. Probably normally. Yes, yes. I also feel like sometimes, um let's see right there, Swedish, Sweden, Swedish. okay um
00:33:55
Speaker
I feel like some languages, oo the accent is less pronounced. Yeah. Like, I think Swedish is one of those, unless it's like,
00:34:06
Speaker
I don't know. I guess it also depends how you learn it. Yes. He probably learned in, you know, america fancy educational. Yeah. Like not, he didn't just learn it from like reading or. Sure.
00:34:18
Speaker
Movies or I feel like if you learn that way too, your accent might be more pronounced. Yeah.
00:34:26
Speaker
Yeah. It was fun. I just loved listening to them talk. Like all of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and even like Minnie Driver. Minnie Driver's British. No, you're right. There were a lot of, I mean, I guess that sort of speaks to this like metropolitan town that they're in and also college town, like it having a lot of international students.
00:34:53
Speaker
Yeah. And I guess also like for Will, like his exposure to just whole new worlds. Mm-hmm. part of that is literally like people who are just not from where he's from right right or even from the u i liked how
00:35:12
Speaker
like the in the I keep using the word
Perspectives on Success: Sean vs Jerry
00:35:15
Speaker
confrontation. This movie is, in a way, a series of confrontations. It is. It is. Yeah. Intellectual, physical, emotional. Yeah, just like different characters.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah. everybody Every pair of characters gets a confrontation. Yeah, they do. They do. hum But a confrontation between Jerry and ah Sean?
00:35:38
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:35:41
Speaker
It's so hard to call them these names when they're such like iconic. All of the people in this movie. Yeah, they are. Such famous people. Yeah. um
00:35:52
Speaker
But i I really liked how well, I guess there's a couple things that are true. Like one Sean does not like regret his career or like the choices that he made.
00:36:10
Speaker
oohoo And two, he's also kind of stalled in the grief of losing his wife. But I liked how Jerry...
00:36:25
Speaker
is just like so sure about kind of like how you're supposed to live a life yeah yeah and and he's so sure that sean is regretful of or feels like a failure or is a failure yeah and resents him yeah like he's just yeah read just yeah and that line ah from Sean where he's just like it's not about you like not everything is about you um like Will's whole life is not about him either but he's like so caught up in his own um he probably feels more like a failure than john does just because he has this like yeah unattainable like measurement he pretty much says as much when Will burns the yeah
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah. The child's play math problem that he did a parent. Yeah. yeah Yeah. I like that. Just that that Sean understood that like not everybody's measurement of success is the same.
00:37:32
Speaker
um Yeah. And that doesn't mean that Will wants to stay where he is. Like he can also see that Will doesn't want that but like is it right to produce pursue something else but like also understands that just that kind of kind of ultimatum that jerry's trying to present as like yeah your life away is not really a real thing yeah yeah right it's not it yeah there's not there's not only one way to be successful yeah which i
00:38:09
Speaker
hey, that's such a psych thing that we've talked about. and Yeah. That's what we were just talking about with Gus. Yeah. Yeah. well Yeah. And I think
00:38:21
Speaker
You know, I think before before psych started, Gus would probably say that success is your job, doing well in your job, making good money, being well-equationed. Right. Prestige. And I think Sean is very much like Will in this sense, where Sean is like, oh, yeah, Gus, very Jerry. Yeah.
00:38:41
Speaker
And I think Sean, Sean's much more like Will. i wouldn't maybe I wouldn't maybe classify him as Sean, but more like Will in the respect that he he sees success more as like who he's spending the time with and if he's enjoying himself.
00:38:57
Speaker
And i very much like Syke, it seems like we get Will at the end coming to kind of a crossroads or an in-between between these two standpoints or these two um two viewpoints of realizing that like yes maybe he does need to be a tiny bit more serious about things but also he doesn't need to confine himself to the success that jerry has defined for him yeah yeah but i think and also that he doesn't need to
00:39:31
Speaker
hold himself back from like yeah those kinds of aspirations that he does have like yeah the way robert williams talks him about know like why why are you going around solving other people's math problems and in the middle of the night and lying about it like he clearly has this desire to yeah um for that kind of challenge and stuff. And I feel like that is so Sean too, like yeah how we meet him in the pilot.
Comparisons of Sean and Will's Reluctance
00:40:02
Speaker
um You know, for this character of Sean being someone who you know, he, he hates his dad. He hates law enforcement. me He doesn't want anything to do with any of that. He's not going to go do it. He's not, but it's like, he's yeah calling in tips all the time and like, so much so that he looks like ah he must be involved somehow because how is he doing? It's like, um it's like he, it's, it is a part of him, even though he's yeah fighting it in some ways. And he does have this desire to be
00:40:37
Speaker
to be seen and to be recognized for that skill set that he does have. And um like, we see how, how fulfilling he finds it to like solve mysteries and stuff.
00:40:51
Speaker
um So it's like, he kind i feel like in the beginning and as a young man, when when we meet him in like, like his high school flashback and stuff, like he talks a big game about like how he doesn't want to do anything or even like how he is with relationships or all these jobs that he's done and stuff. It's like he, he sort of, Oh, kind of like how we talked about, I think in the, um, in the reunion episode, how like the act of not choosing something as a choice. Mm hmm.
00:41:29
Speaker
Yep. Like not participating. Um, ah So it's like that is a very real tension in like internal conflict for Sean. And I feel like in a similar way for it is for Will. Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting, too, because we get this kind of like, quote unquote, boy genius thing happening with the two of them as well. Like Sean comes into law enforcement and like blows them away. i mean, we you just talked about last week how he figured out the Yang puzzles in like an hour. Yeah. Like so ridiculously quickly. Yeah.
00:42:07
Speaker
And yeah, he got a perfect score on the detective's exam at like 15, you know. Yeah, totally.
00:42:14
Speaker
He's a savant also in this context. Yes. I was also couldn't help but think of one of our last foundations, Real Genius, and yes in watching this movie. like Yeah, totally.
00:42:30
Speaker
And all the the struggles of Val Kilmer's character. And and i feel like that's kind of ah the other side of the coin here with this. Like Will is coming from...
00:42:41
Speaker
you know, not from this academic world and um the kinds of pressures he feels is more kind of more like the young guy, maybe.
00:42:54
Speaker
in oh any real genius yeah yeah like the teenager but at the same time like that teenager has been sort of like you can tell by the way he's been dressed and right like he's been groomed to be this way whereas will nobody would have ever expected right anything from him because of where he comes from and um and then like pal kilmer's character is has his breaking point because he's already a part of it all.
Parallels with 'Real Genius'
00:43:27
Speaker
ah So it's interesting, like these two, again, kindred characters sort of meeting in this middle ground. Yeah. One on the academic side, one I don't know, the other side of the tracks, metaphorically. Yeah.
00:43:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:52
Speaker
and perspective of a similar Yeah. Yeah, this was definitely more like a a drama. Dramatic version of Real Genius. We see like no crying, not not really much slamming things in Real Genius. Real Genius is a very like fun loving version of yeah this movie.
00:44:17
Speaker
um Yeah, still someone going kind of against the grain and still having to balance the challenges of, like, success and academia and all those things, but then also the person that they want to be and what they define as success, which think for Val Kilmer's character is clearly not what other people determine, but also being like... But it also used to be, like, he came from this world and sort of has this breaking point because he, like, realizes it's all nonsense.
00:44:52
Speaker
Right. And then... Will is like invited into this world. And already knows it's nonsense. Yeah.
00:45:04
Speaker
And like yeah both of them kind of have to grapple with how to be. yeah genius um In a way that's like a fulfilling.
00:45:16
Speaker
Yeah. That's so interesting. You have to grapple with how to be a genius. Yeah, it just makes me think of like,
00:45:30
Speaker
but that's such like a particular experience. That's true. I think to like some degree, it really is essentially what all of us do just in a less like intense way. Like, I think everyone at some point, or I'd like to think that everyone at some point kind of grapples with like, what it means to be a person and what it means to be successful and what it means to. Yeah, for sure.
00:45:53
Speaker
to, you know, live a life that you, that you feel fulfilled in here. They just have like super intense of iterations that it at a very young age because of, of their genius and what other people expect of them. Yeah.
00:46:10
Speaker
So yeah, it's like a very intense microcosm of what most, most people will experience at some point in time. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:46:21
Speaker
I'm thinking, too, like, Sean being sort of somewhere in the middle of those two, how he has also been groomed for what he is doing. Groomed for greatness. In a way that maybe the real genius characters are. Mm-hmm.
00:46:37
Speaker
But he has... like he's a lot more, he's more obstinate. Yeah. He's more oppositional.
00:46:47
Speaker
Yeah. From a young age. Even like the way Will like, because he sort of is self-taught and he talks about like reading books in the public library and stuff. Yeah. He's really sought knowledge. Yeah.
00:47:02
Speaker
But he still has this sort of like, he's more like contrarian. Like he's very contrarian about yeah like what he has read. Yeah. He really picked, you know, kind of like, what are the right books?
00:47:16
Speaker
That question that he's asked. So like, even though he doesn't have that in formal training, he still kind of has that streak, that defiance.
Intellectualism vs Emotional Immaturity
00:47:28
Speaker
yeah And Sean also has that too from like yeah very young.
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah, well and I think, you know, you were you were looking for that word and what came into my head was like, he's still very learned, he's very learned but he's still very much a child.
00:47:45
Speaker
Like, he he has all of this knowledge, he's done all this research, he presents it, he's very well-spoken. he tries to present himself as very, like, mature and, i don't know about mature, but very grown up, maybe.
00:48:01
Speaker
When he's talking to people. But like Sean. He's still very much a kid. Yeah. Yeah the code switch he does. Is really interesting. Like how.
00:48:13
Speaker
he'll suddenly start talking like he's writing a thesis paper. Yes. In the bar, that was crazy. Yeah. Especially because i found this so funny. What they were talking about, i was like, guys, you're making this sound way fucking fancier than it is. I know. that's It's like, you're both annoying. yes I was like, shut up.
00:48:37
Speaker
I'm like, this is... But he is, it he's sort of, a like, Will is sort of aware of it. like yes in that he's using that against the other guy but at the same time Yeah, but he does like also use it sort of as a again, like as a defense mechanism, like um like in that um spiel about the nsa and how it's like almost like rehearsed the way he said it to them. And then yeah exactly the same, which is such a like, again, 20 year old thing to be like, let me tell you what's wrong with the world.
00:49:15
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, it's this, you know, as we've talked many times before, it's our desire to make things so clear, right? So clearly black or so clearly white or or whatever it might be, you know, but the world is increasingly gray.
00:49:31
Speaker
Nothing is ever quite as straightforward as it seems. Yeah, I'm glad we watched it. I really, even though I, like I said, cried ridiculously, um thought it was a good, thought it was a good watch.
00:49:48
Speaker
I will be making references to it. I feel like often. yeah I feel like, um, it's ah again, like what I enjoy about this or one of the things i enjoy about our little project here, like kind of filling in gaps in my own yes understanding of popular culture. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think, you know, it
00:50:12
Speaker
Pop culture nowadays is like so ubiquitous with just like being a person that even if you haven't, it's kind of like the the show, right? Kind of like Psych. Even if you haven't seen something, you can usually get the references enough that you're like, oh, okay. Like i I get it.
00:50:31
Speaker
Like how about them apples? Oh, yeah, I understand. Like the joke, right? Yeah. um But then when you do watch the thing, it just makes the references all that more rich.
00:50:42
Speaker
Yeah. and And fun and interesting. Yeah. yeah i don't know. It's like a weird thing to bring something you have an understanding of just based on referential knowledge. Yes. Yeah. And to see where it's from and see it in context. Yeah. Well, and and this has been really fun too.
00:51:04
Speaker
I don't know about you, but i I end up like just referencing to other people that, oh my God, I watched Good Will Hunting over the weekend or oh my gosh, I watched Real Genius or oh, have you seen this horror movie?
Podcast Reflection and Pop Culture Exploration
00:51:14
Speaker
And it it's sparked a lot of other like really wonderful conversations with people in my life. So it's been, yeah, it's been a fun endeavor.
00:51:21
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and it's, so varied like everything we're getting to watch i know it really is i feel like part of that like what we've talked about with television how you know it's really a group project so there's a lot of different tastes and influences like there's a lot of writers in the room that have different things that they're pulling from and different things that they love like right james and horror and stuff so like we're really getting ah a variety Yeah.
00:51:51
Speaker
One other psyche thing, sort of half-baked, I feel like I have to mention, is that scene with um
00:52:03
Speaker
Will and Skylar. I'm like, what's her name? Yes. At the cafe when she... Kind of tries to understand from him how he right works.
00:52:18
Speaker
And he like explains it and she like just kisses him. Yeah. It reminded me. or it made me think of like Sean and Jules when Jules realized, like learns the truth and how her reaction is very much not like that. yeah And I wonder, you know, part of that sliding door is again, like how Sean imagines the version of reality where she was just like,
00:52:53
Speaker
You're still a really good detective. Like just so impressed by him that it's fine. um Because I wasn't thinking about it, but he, Will also does some lying.
00:53:06
Speaker
um Yeah. a And kind of so just like a similar thing of like not wanting to like let someone fully in to fully see you.
00:53:17
Speaker
um sean has a sort of a different situation because he's lying to everybody yeah and and i think we talked about how the the lie in this case is like a foundational lie yeah of them knowing each other it's not like this kind of superfluous thing like how many siblings do you have yeah although that's still nice well and that's a a significant lie in that It's um how he's hiding his tragic backstory. Yeah, my God. Which, like, his, and you know, the person who loves him is going to need to know about that.
00:53:54
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And it's it's so interesting, too, their interactions with each other, Minnie Driver and Matt Damon's characters. Because you can tell, like, from the start, Minnie Driver doesn't really buy...
00:54:06
Speaker
what he's selling. Yeah, she challenges it. Yeah, but then she kind of lets it go. who You know, can you name all 13 of your brothers?
00:54:17
Speaker
Or all 12 of your brothers or whatever. Yeah, I feel like She, the fact that he never takes her to his place. Yeah. Like, I feel like he gives her reasons to be skeptical.
00:54:32
Speaker
Absolutely. Even if she kind of gives in in the beginning, like, he just continues to sort of build up ah the lie of just not taking her, like, not showing her.
00:54:46
Speaker
Yeah. His true background and stuff. Yeah, I mean, he's definitely not...
00:54:55
Speaker
He's not making the situation any better. Yeah.
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah, and he's also, like... He's really projecting on her... oh my... Yeah, that whole argument. I was like, take a breath, sir. Take a breath.
00:55:11
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and I'm sure he, like, working in Cambridge and, you know, living in this...
00:55:20
Speaker
metro area where there are these people who come from all over to be very fancy and like learn at the best place in the world and have a lot of money like he's met a lot of people who probably fit but what he's projecting on her but she's like you don't know me either like you well kind of like what he does to robin williams he just like assumes he has it all figured out right i would love to watch it again but i feel like i need to be yeah I need, like, emotional but original space away from this movie for a minute. I was like, ah.
00:55:59
Speaker
How did you watch it? I watched it on Tubi. Okay, this was what i what I wanted to talk about. Usually, i am all for the ads. When we were watching the horror movies, I'm like, bring them on Let me breathe. In this case, i was like...
00:56:16
Speaker
sobbing and then an ad would roll and I was like no was gonna say like you know it can also be nice for adding some emotional distance yeah I guess for me I need like a i need things to like resolve for me and even if that's just like a we're going on to the next scene and like something else is happening mm-hmm This was like pulling me out of it so much that I was like, I'm just sitting here crying as a Taco Bell. like
00:56:48
Speaker
It's like this feels strangely dystopian. Yeah. Or I kept getting um gambling ads, which I was like. Oh, interesting. Yes. But I kept just being like, I don't want to go to Atlantic City. Leave me alone. That is funny. wonder if you get more of that. Like, because ah like sports gambling is illegal in California still.
00:57:09
Speaker
Oh, oh yeah. Nope. Force gambling is legal here. People do it all the time. There's literally pools at my school. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So the ads, I was like, whew, you're coming out the worst times, guys.
00:57:25
Speaker
But yes, I watched it on Tubi. I like Tubi. I really enjoy Tubi. i mean I do get frustrated because I'm like, I pay for so many different subscriptions and this thing is not anywhere, but it's on Tubi, which is free for everybody. i know. It's great.
00:57:39
Speaker
Yeah. Shout out to Tubi. Yes. We love Tubi. The official partner of websites. I know. most of the Most of the stuff we've watched, we've watched on Tubi, huh?
00:57:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's good. eat And they even have some of the more... the slightly more obscure stuff which is nice we watched black christmas on tubi didn't we yeah yeah They have definitely a lot of like, like a significant horror connection. Actually, not not connection, collection. yeah When we went on Tubi to find it, one of the first like suggestions was this documentary on 80s horror. And I was like, well, maybe we need to watch that. I think we need to watch that. That sounds perfect.
00:58:25
Speaker
Well, speaking of which, what what are we going to watch next? What are we going to next? What are we goingnna discuss next? So we we initially intended to watch A Starsky and Hutch and read slash listen to A Study in Scarlet.
00:58:40
Speaker
But A Study in Scarlet is a full book. Yeah, I pulled it up on Friday night thinking it was like a short story, like eight to ten pages. And I was like, no. No. there no and maybe you should have picked a short story for us i should have forewarned you but it's like i feel like it's the quintessential it's the first one that's okay and i did my library i would imagine they have it at the library but like for young libby they only had an audiobook which was only like four hours so yeah yeah maybe i'll go with that but If I don't make it to the library itself.
00:59:12
Speaker
um We can shoot for that now that I understand and that I can't start. I can't cram it. Yeah, that's fair. No, I know. I started my my issue.
00:59:23
Speaker
So i've I've read a study in Scarlet. Sherlock Holmes is one of my favorite books. detective series. I just think it's fun as a, as kind of like a start of a genre. And um so i've I've read it. I've read the short stories multiple times, but this time I thought it would fun to listen to the audio book because I've never listened to the audio book. So I'm sitting in my beanbag, which I sit on every time that we record, except in the the bedroom I'm sitting on the beanbag and I have a studying scarlet like on my chest like as I'm like looking up no like and do I just fall asleep yes I do that's my problem yeah I mean it's sort of I don't know if it's really a problem but like when I can't sleep I use like a podcast like because audio just puts me to sleep yes yeah exactly so yeah that might be an issue I know. I was like, gosh darn it. I'd get like 20 minutes in and then I have to start over again. like i don't know when I fell asleep. i don't know when what I heard. boom It's okay. I think this worked out though because Good Will Hunting was specifically like the reference we were looking at was the last episode we watched. so Yes, I agree.
01:00:29
Speaker
um A nice segue. Yeah. Into the foundations.
Upcoming Podcast Topics Announcement
01:00:35
Speaker
Yeah, we can plan on Starsky and Hutch and Study in Scarlet. Study in Scarlet. If we have time, you could also watch Study in Pink. It's been a long time. If there's time.
01:00:52
Speaker
so good which is the the sherlock the original the pilot of the sherlock on bbc episode spin-off whatever you would call it represent it what's the word i'm looking for interpretation of a study in scarlet which is also very fun Yeah, it would be interesting to watch that after seeing the original or reading the original. Because I have seen it before, but i've I've not read really any actual Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes. so
01:01:26
Speaker
And the creators of Sherlock on BBC are big. Yeah. original sherlock holmes fans so a lot of what happens in the episode is pretty closely tied or is referential to what actually happens in the book which is fun so yeah cool would you like to add anything else before we hit on out of here i don't think so All right. Very good. Well, in that case, if you'd like to join us back here next week, this is round two of the Sci6 Foundations, where we take a little dabble into original source material that is referenced in in the psych series. ah Next week, we're going to be watching Starsky and Hutch and reading a study in Scarlet slash maybe watching a study in Pink.
01:02:21
Speaker
So if you would like to join us back here next week, Please do. We'd love to have you where we talk about all of these wonderful things in our famed TV show. It's like. Bye.
01:02:33
Speaker
The Sci6101 would like to thank and credit the design efforts of Olavia Genesis, musical talents of Skane Music and Mikael Hunt, the production abilities of Kyle Dalton and Skillard Jensen, and of course, the support of our friends and family.
01:02:47
Speaker
If you enjoyed the episode, make sure to rate and review and join us back here next time for more Sci6101.