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One Battle After Another (Round 2) with Tori (@filmfae)
25 Plays12 hours ago
What's up homie?? One of the biggest movies of the year is now out on digital, so while it's fresh on the mind we wanted to share this conversation Doug had with PTA afficionado Fae. They tackle important topics such as: PTA's investment in furthering The Swirl onscreen, whether or not the film thinks non-binary highschoolers can be trusted, and if they think that Bob is a good dad.
They also share their potentially controversial PTA rankings!!
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Transcript
Introduction to PTA Films
00:00:00
Speaker
Which mix? There's no real easy way to say this, but yeah, it's black.
Personal Connections to PTA
00:00:28
Speaker
right now all right so this is uh these guys got juice and i'm here uh tori aka fey and we're we're talking paul thomas anderson's one battle after another um but also just general uh some paul thomas anderson discussion because i've actually been enjoying what watching you ah like post through some of his other films like leading up to the release of of of this one i was like living vicariously through through your feet so uh uh i uh but i'm just kind of curious like what's your uh connection to him like what what resonates with you in in his films and like what what have you like really latched on to in in these like recent watches
Exploring PTA's Unique Style
00:01:16
Speaker
Yeah. um So for me, my just my love for film in general kind of comes from my relationship with my dad. Was always a big fan of Daniel Day-Lewis. And of course, there will be blood. And so that was one I saw pretty young um and always really liked. And then.
00:01:33
Speaker
I kind of, I had this like in high school, this rebellious phase where it was like, my dad likes movies, so I'm not going to like movies. I'm going to like other stuff. And then in like junior year, I came back around to, i think um it was the Oscars year where ah Timothy Chalamet was first nominated. And there was that viral picture of him and Daniel Day-Lewis like,
00:01:59
Speaker
colliding, I guess, at the Oscars. And so that um as a teenage girl who was big into Timothee Chalamet, I'm like, let me check out some of, you know, let me just get kind of dip my toe back into this, um yeah this realm. And then that led me to watching Phantom Thread back in like 2018 or whatever. And I loved it. I fell in love with it. I think um I was really struck by just how quiet the movie felt, if that made sense. Like it's, it's a very like slow,
00:02:29
Speaker
movie, it, uh, I don't know, you get time to breathe as you're watching it and it's not, um, it's not trying to be bombastic or anything. And I think when it comes to blockbusters and movies that like people who aren't into movies will see a lot, um, that's more valued, just like more things happening. And so, yeah I don't know, it was kind of ah like a roundabout way of me getting back to enjoying, um, quieter movies and,
00:02:58
Speaker
PTA is really good at making quiet movies where not a ton happens. um Yeah, his stuff's very like character ah driven. Like I still haven't seen a ton of like Robert Altman's stuff. I've only seen a handful of those films, know people always bring up like that's like one of the PTA's like biggest as inspiration. Like he's a big...
00:03:17
Speaker
He's a big Altman guy. And from the one couple that I've seen, I'm like, OK, I get it. Like, it's a lot of like overlapping dialogue. And like you said, it's like it's not that there's no plot, but it's also like not in any particular rush. And it's just a lot of characters in rooms having conversation. so yeah yeah, for sure.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's almost like a. I don't know. I think you kind of hit a point as a person who is really passionate about movies where you don't need so much of the...
00:03:49
Speaker
The plot, which is ironic because we're talking about a movie that is very plot heavy and there's constantly things happening. Yeah. And this is like on the other spectrum, which I think why some people were surprised with
Character Dynamics and Themes
00:04:00
Speaker
one. be I mean, I wasn't surprised in the sense of like, oh, PTA can do action because I'm like, well, what is action in terms of like you're just it's creative ways of like tracking character of movements and his camera's always moving so like that that made that made sense to me but it was just it's just something new in terms of just like the tone and style that that uh he's he's deploying here yeah i felt completely the same way i think he has dabbled in a lot of these elements before obviously he's done inherent vice which is um kind of a similar
00:04:35
Speaker
structure and story and vibe. And like, um, I think Punch Drunk Love is pretty, not action packed, but like it moves, you're watching that movie and it's like it, I don't know, things, things definitely, um, unfold in a way that's
00:04:55
Speaker
satisfying in the traditional sense where it's not so i i feel like i get i get what you're saying because like his movies typically move at the pace of kind of the characters and barry i think that's adam sandler's yeah there yeah he he's like a powder king like he's like going off at it like everything so like that that like kind of really drives drives the film home and in one battle it's well because it's it's structured really interestingly like in this like It feels weird to call it a prologue because it's like like 45 minutes of the movie. But when we start like in we don't get like a tile car with the exact year. But if the current day stuff is like now, then, you know, like this would be like 2008, 2009 or something.
00:05:43
Speaker
that those segments we're seeing with like perfidia is like the main character of that like chunk of the movie and she's similarly like a powder keg like she's like a bomb yeah it's it's it's interesting that pat's like the demolitions guy or like the bomb guy because she's a bomb like yeah oh my god yeah yeah yeah yeah um he's he's really good at I guess basing a story around a very like unpredictable,
00:06:15
Speaker
i don't know. It just, the people who are kind of off, if that makes sense. I don't want to say off, but you know what mean? People who are a little bit. No, but, but the freaks, yeah the weirdos. You know, whether it's like Hered Vice is ah specifically like ah all this countercultural stuff and and characters who are labeled like freaks and hippies and and all these things. But like he like you said, it's so it's he's going off of the main road or the main street, like people who are like more.
00:06:42
Speaker
would typically you'd view as like two to the sides, and but but not in a judgmental way, because like like I feel like that's a thread through so many of his things is that he generally, even like the most bizarre, fucked up, like I would say even plain of if Daniel Plainview, like in There Will Be Blood, like PTA feels some sense of sympathy, or not like sympathy, but like he use him as human even though he's like a like evil guy like he's like awful person but like yeah like i don't think he like hates and or is like really making judgments on these guys until we get to sean penn this i think he does he's like this guy and this guy is like he hates sean penn's character in this movie that much is for sure
00:07:29
Speaker
But otherwise, ah like he does, he's just like presenting you with characters who might be kind of thorny or have something like I think perfidia is like an excellent example of that because like she's kind of a a set of of of contradiction. I mean, well because he doesn't tell you what to think about these these characters, even if they're doing things that, you know.
00:07:49
Speaker
like you said, like might be bad. I mean, she does things that hurt the movement and get people killed. and She walks out on her child, but like, I don't think we're meant to like, like look and like down on her. Like, oh she's shre like, like, i've I, I, I'm just compelled by her. Cause I like those, I i like characters who are kind of cut, you know, have these contradictory elements, you know, and, and ah yeah everything she does,
00:08:20
Speaker
Makes sense to me. Like, I'm not saying that it's good, but. Yeah, it's understandable. You can see where she's coming from.
Revolutionary Themes and Societal Reflections
00:08:29
Speaker
Because revolution, the whole idea of it is like you're trying to upheave or subvert like these hierarchies like power. Where is the power line? You want to shift these power structures.
00:08:46
Speaker
Well, she's also. like does that sexually with lockjaw's so like yeah yeah yeah so it's like she's doing it at every level like she doesn't the revolutionary switch like doesn't turn off but but i don't think it's like just straight up like thrill seeking she kind of reminds me like like because she i think she she believes in the cause even if like it is a means to like do these like you like extreme actions but
00:09:19
Speaker
Like she yeah she definitely has beliefs and a code. She I don't know if she is like a straight up like a one for one comparison, but there are scenes in the early in that early chunk with her, especially like when the bank job goes wrong and they're like trying to escape. It's like this kind of feels a little Michael Manny coded like like I have mean, like not every movie with like a bank.
00:09:41
Speaker
ah heist gone wrong is he but uh you know that that's also characters who live by ah code well de niro lives by a code you know like that he has ah this ah these these set of principles even though he's doing know bad stuff but right um i i think you know berfffiti and and she also I think she struggles with like why she does what she does, because I've seen some people have the read of like when she after the initial counter with Lockjaw, like when she goes back to and like meets him with the hotel room, like, oh, well, she was coerced and that that was like she didn't have any choice. Like she could have.
00:10:26
Speaker
I what would he have done if he she didn't show up to that hotel? How much... You know what I mean? Like, she kind of still has... I mean, we see what he's... We do see what he's capable of, though, shortly after that, to be fair.
00:10:37
Speaker
Sure. oh Yeah, but that's, like, he has, like, more status than later on. Like, or early on. I mean, he is still a... i don't I don't know how military ranks work. He's, like, a colonel by the present time. But something lower than current. But he's still he still is like...
00:10:54
Speaker
someone in charge at this detention center or something. So he is high ranking. So he could, he could fuck them over, but he just feels so impotent. Like, the I'm like, yeah, it just felt like a hollow threat. Like, I don't think that was she actually threat like, she's surprised. She's not when he's walks in that stall. She's not expecting that.
00:11:15
Speaker
But i I like, do you think she's like afraid of lockjaw there? Like, is that motivating her? You know, it's weird. I, I, And this is, I guess, the difference between watching it as a woman and as a man is it's like I'm watching that scene and I'm thinking she knows she's cornered. Right. But she has this one final card to play and that's her sexuality.
00:11:37
Speaker
And so she's kind of using that as like it's just buying her time, really. Yeah. I don't know. It's weird. I, I, I get the feeling and it's very vague in the, in the movie, but that like this group has been being traced and targeted for some time maybe before we meet them.
00:11:55
Speaker
Um, And if we know anything about how the U.S. government has treated like revolutionary groups in the past, it's um they're not afraid to use lethal force once they identify people. you know what I mean? Oh, oh oh yeah absolutely. I mean, I get the sense that like they were active or have been building up before the movie started. But the point we start at, like when they like ah hit that detention center, that's almost like like.
00:12:24
Speaker
them announcing themselves on a larger stage. Like, yeah I feel like they beat they became more of a target then and were definitely being tracked. And then by the time, once you get to Perfidia being apprehended, I mean, like, ah it's unclear if they've ever...
00:12:39
Speaker
I mean, they blow they blow up buildings due to domestic terrorism stuff, but it seems pretty non-lethal until she kills that teller. So that's another level of escalation where it's like they're already going to come after you. But then once you've like killed someone, then it's like, well, now they they can do whatever they want to you.
00:12:57
Speaker
you Yeah, you've given them kind of the green light. And then we we we see that like when they're, they it was, it was shot. Cause like when I saw Alana Hayman here, i was like, oh, okay. Like licorice pizza, she's back and then we're going to get more of her.
00:13:11
Speaker
mean, she's got a fun fuck ass wig going on. yes so a little fuck ass Bob. Yeah, i was like, okay, that's cool. We're going to get some, some, so and she's with, um ah what's what's his name? Wood Harris. Like, I love that. What a pairing, huh?
00:13:26
Speaker
i I was like, that's an interesting pairing. What pairing. Only PTA. yeah Only the king of the swirl. um not there no This is a personal like movie for him. Like I, I can not be cause he's like, he's father to, uh, biracial daughters. Uh, and you know, this is a, a girl dad movie, but then also i was reading about that. Uh, like there was some, uh,
00:13:56
Speaker
profile maya rudolph where she was talking about like many riperton died like kind of fairly young so you know she was raised by her her white father primarily and that there would be things where like he didn't know how to like do her hair and stuff so it's like oh he's like using that in the coloring of it because bob literally says that later of like i i don't know how to do her you know when he's about willa's hair yeah yeah Yeah.
Audience Reactions and Cultural Commentary
00:14:21
Speaker
So it's like, oh, he's the this is he's even though like that's from his his wife's life, but not. But that's still personal. Like he's like putting a lot of, you know, all this, all these like personal feelings and experiences into this.
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah, i okay, I'm going to say something, I guess, kind of controversial. um i don't know that scene where he's in the car with ah Benicio del Toro and he's telling him that he doesn't know how to do his daughter's hair. That to me was, i know it's kind of supposed to be heartfelt, I guess. To me, it was kind of like...
00:14:55
Speaker
pathetic i don't know it was like well this is just even more confirmation that he has done very little since oh bob bob is very pathetic yeah like i'm not gonna come on you've had a biracial kid for 16 years you don't know to her hair right like there's youtube like that's how I learned how to do stuff is you two. Well, yeah, not me too.
00:15:16
Speaker
And I have the hair, you know what mean? So it's, you know, that kind of, that stuff to me does feel very like PTA speaking through Bob, if that makes sense. Right. But also you get the sense with Bob, there's almost been like, cause whether it's like his grief from perfidia, not being there or just like the situation they're in that, you know, he's smoked himself into this perpetual cush, cush coma,
00:15:40
Speaker
you know, he's a lover of of drugs and alcohol, but ah that he's like just frozen in time. So he doesn't take the, you know, like he didn't, doesn't look up the tutorial. I'm sure he's never done, looked up a YouTube tutorial for anything because he's like, yeah so in the past, like even has to ask like where he's like, Oh, what's your non-binary friend? They, that like stuff, stuff that's like, you would have met a non-binary person by now, Bob. Like you, you don't, you don't know about this. You live in California.
00:16:10
Speaker
I was going to say, is it is that where the town is that there is that a fictional town? Is that a real town? I think it's like like based off a real place, but ah but is not a real town. Like ah that's I'm not I'm not from Cal. So like I don't know what's going on over there. listening they're like no it's all real i'm like i don't know you guys live in a of fantasy land no yeah i guess exactly canceled me i guess but i don't know if it's i but i'm assuming it's in california which makes it a little unbelievable that he's like so bad at interacting with latino people and like what so out of touch yeah almost it's like
00:16:49
Speaker
you could do this better if you wanted to, but it's almost like he doesn't want to. Like, that they' like there's something... i don't know if it's perform the performative, like, stern and dad thing that he feels like he needs to do, but it's like, you are so so you're like a leftist revolutionary 16 years ago. Now you're being...
00:17:06
Speaker
pretty racist to your like your daughter's friend i mean i mean the the homie is incredible like it suit to speaking about movies i kind of love the homie yeah yeah collateral but i was gonna say the best the best homie since tom cruise is like is that my briefcase home yes he's the first white boy to catch a vibe since vincent collateral that's It is funny watching it in the... um I watched it in two different theaters. I went in my hometown, which is like a really small, rural, um like middle of nowhere kind of town. And then went to Madison, Wisconsin, which is like whatever. It's like a more medium-sized... This is going to be so...
00:17:50
Speaker
unrelatable for any coastal people, but it's like 300,000 people. It's a little more progressive. It's a little, it's like a city more like, or no. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's our capital city, so it's like a more metropolitan area, but it was funny seeing which jokes got what laughs in each theater, if that makes sense, where it's like people in the more progressive areas.
00:18:13
Speaker
town did not find it quite as funny when because it was like out of touch and like it's a very funny movie and I when I first my first viewing because I wanted to see it on I'd missed out on you know like Chicago did have a Vista Vision screening but i and I that sold out so quickly so I went to see IMAX but the IMAX that's closest is in Indiana so in my theater at least from what I could see in the dim lights there was only one other black person there and but did There wasn't the early parts were like and is he's getting he has so much funny material like when he goes to her school and he's like talking. He's like, oh, yeah, I lost sleep over.
00:18:56
Speaker
I literally wrote down the words Grand Wizard Benjamin Franklin because it's so good the way he delivers it. So like, like almost proud of himself for knowing that. Like, I think it's pretty hilarious. Right. Because like he's just a burnout at this point. Hasn't been part actively part of the revolution. But I think he's like patting himself on the back of like, no, I'm still with it.
00:19:19
Speaker
Even though he's like, like we said, he hasn't taken the steps to keep up in other ways, but he's like, no, I know the founding fathers and like all the. Yeah, I know the basic woke. Yeah, I know how to speak woke.
00:19:31
Speaker
Right. Yeah, exactly. He he is definitely a guy who like. And it... Okay, so I guess we're... Forgive me if we kind of jump around here, because I... No, no, we can go in any... or like were We're all over the place. We've already, like, in full spoilers. Like, we don't have to, like... Okay, I was going to say, if you need to rearrange or you need me to, like, chill out, just let me know. No, we should we just go where the conversation goes yeah. um Okay, yeah, so I...
00:20:00
Speaker
Did I just forget what I was going to say? that I just literally forget what was going to say? That happens to me literally all the time. Well, what do you do?
Complexities of Revolutionary Actions
00:20:08
Speaker
What do you I just shift to something else until it comes back. You know, okay, help me. You're going to help retrace my stuff. You can cut this out, right?
00:20:16
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Help me retrace my stuff. I use a couple different editing programs. One of them is like really good at finding like, ah they say find fluff. ums and us. And then it it'll like do like when you're talking about technical difficulties, be like, oh, do you want to cut this part? I'm like, yes, please. Okay, love, love. Okay, so we're, okay, we're fine.
00:20:34
Speaker
We're fine. What on earth were we just talking about before I... We were talking about le Leo can speak basic woke and he's like proud of himself.
00:20:45
Speaker
ah Yeah, well, I guess I wanted to get into i wanted to cover like how interesting the portrayal of different like, left-wing factions is. Like, he... PTA, I don't know if he is... um I'm not going to call him a revolutionary by any means, but, like, he kind of has his finger on the pulse when it comes to the leftist infighting that goes on. i don't know if you're familiar, but, like, that stuff was really...
00:21:16
Speaker
It was really funny to me, the dichotomy between like woke enough and not woke enough and well read. And do you know the theory or not? Like that kind of stuff was really funny. Yeah. All the stuff with I think his name is Comrade Josh of like, yeah oh, you don't. you you don't know This this is like, you like a basic tenet of, of our thing of like, you know, cause he has not been keeping up on the reading and you kind of do get the sense of the beginning of like, not that he's not a leftist, but that a lot of it could be motivated by his pursuit of perfidia, you know, that he like, you know, got into this, you know? So yes, that's exactly. ok You just jogged my memory. That's amazing. um
00:21:58
Speaker
When, so I was going to say, when you first meet these characters, you get like, they lay it out pretty clearly what their motivations are as far as their politics go. So it's like Leo obviously has a crush on Profidia and that's what we, as far as we know is what's driving him. There's a really funny line early on where after they do the first show,
00:22:22
Speaker
i don't even know how to describe it. The first like they blow up that ice facility, I'm guessing it is. Yeah, their first every revolution or something. Yeah. yeah Yeah. After that, they're in the car and and Profitia asks if he likes black girls. And Leo's like, of course, I like black girls. What do you think I'm doing here? He's saying the quiet part out loud.
00:22:43
Speaker
Well, exactly. It's like, that's, it's such a funny way of putting it where it's like, yeah, no, that's the entire reason he's doing any of this is because he's down bad. Like that's what it comes down to for him.
00:22:55
Speaker
and then for Profitia, it's like, to me, at least it seems way more, her motivations seem more, pure as from like a revolutionary standpoint. Like she is dedicated to ah cause and he is right. The, the Russian thrill she gets from it is just like the, plot the you know, like that, that's the, ah what was the guy in the crew? he'd say like that, the action is the juicer. Like, so it's like, you know, that, yeah that that that, that is, you know, yeah, she gets off to it, but like, she's doing it for the, the revolution.
00:23:27
Speaker
he well yeah. and She comes from a long line of, There's like a throwaway line about how she comes from a line of revolutionaries. And like, I'm sure this is just what she knows on some level. Yeah. Like, I don't get the sense that like Pat was raised to do this, that that's like what he was born into.
00:23:46
Speaker
no no, no. He seems like he's the like he's the white boy in the neighborhood that kind of gets adopted. do know you know what I mean? Like, you are a white boy. Like, that's that's him in this movie. It's like he's you know, he's fine. He's with us.
00:24:01
Speaker
He's okay. and He tries his best. Yeah, i mean, if you're willing to blow some shit up at an ice detention center, you're all right, my boy. Yeah, you're all right. can hang with us. No, but it's... um But he's kind of the same as Lockjaw in that way of of not the same as like they're... Obviously, Lockjaw a horrible, evil person, but in terms like what drives them, their pursuit of, of ah you know, it's it's it's this fetishization kind of, you know... Yes.
00:24:30
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And I wonder if PTA knew that when he was making this movie. Like, I wonder, i wonder if he says he wrote this over 20 I haven't read Vineland yet. I intentionally like i either of I, I had checked it out from the library. I'm a slow reader anyway. So I was like, wait, I'll just wait till after. I want to go in.
00:24:48
Speaker
to go in pure. ah But I think the racial elements are at like, not that there, I'm sure there are things that touch on race, but in terms like the main dynamic between these characters, like that's the thing that PTA is,
00:25:00
Speaker
is bringing to it so right i'm curious how late into if he was been chewing on this for 20 years like how because it's like pretty vital to the whole thing so how how late into the game did that come but apparently some things like were on were changed like pretty late like uh benicio del toro says like kind of like his whole character arc and all his scenes for uh for sensei sergio where they like were very different and like it was basically just sort of like a dinner conversation with PTA where they like came up with like what it is now but so it's like I like did did did he just like on a whim where he's i i mean it seems like the racial stuff he couldn't be on a whim because it it's like so in the DNA that he had to yeah at the very least since he's been with Maya I don't know when they started like was since they've been a thing but it's it's been on his mind
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's it's a really interesting look into how he sees himself, if that makes sense, like in relation to his wife and his kids and everything, because he is the white guy in a family of... Right.
00:26:12
Speaker
I hesitate to say this because this is very controversial to say that they're all black, but like, people you know what mean? Like, Maya is black, his kids are technically some percentage.
00:26:23
Speaker
You're not the same as him, if that makes sense. i I, you know, I maybe I'm too, if someone, if someone's makes, you know, like you you're, you're black. I like, yeah. i mean I'm not, yeah I'm not too picky personally. It's, it's just not too, for me, it's not like,
00:26:39
Speaker
I'm not doing race science and in measure. I mean, you know like no yeah I have my own bag, I guess, like, yeah, being light skin where it's like, yeah, I don't I'm not going to like then then turn around to other people be like, no, you can't.
00:26:52
Speaker
Yeah. don't call your grandparents Yeah. Yeah. Very funny.
00:27:02
Speaker
But go ahead. I don't talk over you. ah No, it's okay. I also accidentally talk over people to ah myself, so to so you know forgive me if I do that. ah But you said like it's an it's it's it's a view into his like what his where we can imagine his home life and ah this experience is like for him, but also how he views the world in general. Because like if he's been writing this for 20 years, i mean, this feels so current. like that This is like something that's happening
00:27:33
Speaker
and now I mean, it starts with, they're at like an ICE detention facility. Yeah, which very, very current. It's very current. So the the fact that he's able to be this this on on the pulse, but it's something he's been thinking about for a while and from an idea. I know the book is like, I think takes place in 1984 or something. So that that that he's actively making that choice to make it now.
00:28:01
Speaker
And... with the tone of, you know, there's a hopeful tone to the movie overall, even with like the bad things that happened to these characters and to the revolution itself. A lot of people like get scooped up and we just don't see them again. And, but it ultimately ends on a note of hope, but even just like the existence of the French 75 and like these like groups that,
00:28:26
Speaker
almost feels a little like wish fulfillment. be Like, obviously there's very active, like leftist groups that, that are, that do what they can now. But in terms of like, like this feels like the they, the way they're coded is like more like,
00:28:42
Speaker
um I don't know if you've heard like the the weather underground that they were that you know that they were a group that were like doing like domestic terrorism stuff like this like in like you know like the 70s and stuff like they were protesting Vietnam but like you know they were okay they meant business yeah but they're like we're gonna blow some shit up about it right but like we don't we don't really have that now, like, in terms like... No, not on that scale. Yeah, like, even though there technically is a Black part at Panther organization, like, they're not, like, doing, like, you know...
Generational Themes and Character Arcs
00:29:16
Speaker
Yeah, in name only.
00:29:17
Speaker
Right, yeah. there's There's an organization that is called the Black Panthers now, but they're not doing, like, but black what we think of, like, Black Panther stuff. So, like, we we don't we don't even really have, like, this energy now, so it's almost like...
00:29:31
Speaker
like PTA projecting onto like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if we had this right now? I mean, yeah, like we should shouldn't shouldn't we be doing something? Yeah, it's weird. It's hard to discern. And I think that's what's so interesting, I guess.
00:29:46
Speaker
There's been this really big push recently to like And this is with all celebrities, but just the the need to know their political stance on every topic.
00:30:00
Speaker
um Right. like Big thing in the news. i Like, I think if there's actual evidence of something that you yeah it's fair to like talk about or look it, totally. But it doesn't like.
00:30:15
Speaker
It ah shouldn't color the whole thing because, like, it's clear that his... ah you Like, he might not be, like, like a Marxist or a hardcore leftist. Like, he's probably a liberal. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, my God. He's clearly, like, milquetoast shitlib. And that's fine. we You know, there's a place for that in society.
00:30:35
Speaker
Right. Exactly. Like, I feel like he... that that That's, like, pretty average for a guy like that from his generation. But he the fact that he made this movie... It is in because he's like in his fifty s I think like so that would mean that that that's like Gen X, right? So he in this movie is like Gen X fucked up, kind you know, like like that. The French 75 did do.
00:31:01
Speaker
did do ah things that like are still ripple into the current like you you get the sense that like Sergio when he finds out that Bob's French 75 that he's like ah kind of maybe that inspired him in some way or the movement that he's part of so it's like not that the French 75 didn't do anything but in terms of like Gen X as a whole the the flame kind of died out in terms of like you know like it just it there used to be the gen x kind of ethos of like fuck the man or you know like don't sell out and then that quickly became yeah yeah rage against the machine all of those but now they're like oh actually no let's just sell out yeah no now it's fine
00:31:42
Speaker
Get that bag. ah So I think he is like reckoning with that of like, wait, did we fuck up? You know, because like it's clear that Bob dropped the ball. Like there are still people from the French 75 who are active. Like I like the glimpses of that. We see like the guy who gives him those like cool transponders like his like his whole setup Like, I like how I even like when he gets picked up by by like that bounty hunter that yeah he has the kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He has the kids like ready to send out the the message.
00:32:15
Speaker
Speaking of which, I had noticed this before that i And I think Leo even said that the movies like Star Wars in terms of like, you know, it's about this this group of rebels that are fighting larger powers. But but I was like thinking about what was like, wait, there's like there's straight up. it There's a there's a bounty hunter.
00:32:36
Speaker
ah There's like the revelations about parentage with with Willa. And, you know, she she has an evil father. I mean, her father is Darth Vader. I am your father. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:52
Speaker
I'm picking up what you're putting down. Yeah. What if Vader was down bad Black Worlds? Well, you know.
00:33:04
Speaker
That's a really interesting way putting that. I didn't think of that before. um Oh my God, there's totally parallels. I think she's totally our... Willa is definitely our Luke Skywalker.
00:33:16
Speaker
For sure. Because she's the one who... Bob has to go... ah ah ah His arc is like kind of him waking back up. You know, like he's basically like been asleep for 16 years and he needs to to wake back up. That's that's what he needs. Yes. Do you know who he reminds me of um in the Hunger Games movies?
00:33:35
Speaker
Woody Harrelson's character. i't know if you've seen the movies. Kind of. I was... Oh, you're killing me because this is such a good comparison. The people listening will know that this is a really funny, but he's very much like Haymitch, which is Woody Harrelson's character, who's like this old disgruntled like he was a revolutionary. He obviously did make a change in society, but now he's kind of jaded and he's guiding the next generation, but not doing very much himself.
00:34:06
Speaker
Okay, no, yeah that that's that's that's a perfect one for Bob. even if he has to, like, kind of reactivate, at the end, he's still letting Willa go out on his... He's kind of ceding the floor to the next generation, almost in a way of, like, I i could have done more, but also it is your guys' time now. You know, like, the like yes i you know, I did drop the ball. my you know, fuck, you did, did fuck up, but at least I can support you in in what you want and need to do for, ah for, to keep, keep the battle going.
00:34:43
Speaker
Cause like that, and triumphantly her with, with it, with her going off. So yeah, I think she very much is, is our Luke Skywalker and you kind of can view this like, cause she's the active protagonist throughout it.
00:34:56
Speaker
It's like, this This really is like Willa's story. Yeah, absolutely I think at the end of the day, which is interesting because thinking of it in hindsight, obviously, I don't think that there's really a lead actress that comes to mind. They kind of all share it.
00:35:14
Speaker
So I would, you know, I wouldn't necessarily say she's like the lead of the movie, but she definitely is. i mean, once the once the story kicks off, it's like,
00:35:25
Speaker
what you're tuning in for is to see what she's going to do next and what's going to, you know I mean? How she's going to Right. Like Bob i mean stuff, stuff is happening around Bob, but it's more like that. That's opportunities for like Leo's grain it, but like we're seeing like the supporting cast and the people who are helping him get to Willa that, that that's really like what we're getting out of those scenes. Whereas Willa is actively like,
00:35:52
Speaker
yeah being radicalized. Like, like, like we i you can fill in the gaps of like, yeah, he's probably, you know, given her some tidbits of ideology, but like, we know that he's not keeping up on the reading and stuff. So like, it's not like, right yeah he's not like a super active parent. He's more about,
00:36:14
Speaker
she's parenting him more than he's parenting her from what we could see. Like of like when, you know, she's like, you know, like where were you last night or like what times you come home? And I liked it. He's like encouraging her to like call him out Like that. He's like, the yeah, that, that is, that shows that like, even if he has been asleep at the wheel, he is like, well, I do having raising an empowered woman as a daughter, like that is important to me. like I mean, I, and that way, like he does,
00:36:41
Speaker
still want to keep that uh flame of of of perfidia alive even if other people might recognize like see that perfidia in willa and be like oh that's dangerous like when she yeah the convent and like that's the one nuns like you i don't know like if she's like her mom that's going to be trouble Right.
00:37:02
Speaker
Yeah, no. And just by the way, Sisters of the Brave Beaver is a hilarious name. It's so good. Apparently, Chase Infinity didn't know, like PTA had to explain the joke to her. like ah ah Really? She's a year older than me, so I...
00:37:18
Speaker
yeah home Yeah, for the record. and actually She's 25. She's 25. So, yeah, people know it be. Come on. what a be Yeah, you know, it's I think it's cultural. Depends where she's from, you know. yeah having one of those goal definite totallyly It's definitely not like the number one slaying for that. But know I feel like you've watched enough movies you've seen. and So, yeah, she's certainly PTA movies.
00:37:44
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:37:49
Speaker
Let's see. Okay, I wanted to, since we're, I kind of feel like we're front-loading the more thematic discussions, and then um maybe later we swing back around to like the technical aspects, but I did think it was interesting how they, I don't know, they almost, they reinforced this idea of like,
00:38:12
Speaker
women black women being the drivers of revolution in society like they are the ones who are doing all of the things um and just women in general jungle pussy and then i mean even alana hymn in the beginning she's doing like she's planting the bombs like it's the women that are driving it and but i that gives me pause because At the same time, we also get the message that like women are more vulnerable.
00:38:40
Speaker
and when it comes to leading a revolution, they have more weaknesses. um Like Profidia is kind of
Stereotypes and Political Influences
00:38:47
Speaker
she's pretty easily put in that position where she has to, you know, do sexual favors and then kind of agree to like be this guy's.
00:38:57
Speaker
like slave wife in order to not go to prison. do you know what i mean? It's yeah on some level, it's reinforcing those things, I feel like. It's it's tricky because it it's like like I was kind of alluded before. What is the balance of power there? Like, yes, Lockjaw does wield the power of the state and is able to go after and kill people in French 75. But when he's with her,
00:39:23
Speaker
she's like doming him. So like, would that have been like, if in his perfect fantasy, you know, like he's bringing flowers to the like safe house or wherever they're keeping her once she's ah become a witness. is Like, is ah is it is that what he wants for the rest of his life? But then again, like that's then his fantasy. So that's the, even if he, she is the the dominant one, then that's still ah a white fantasy. Yeah.
00:39:49
Speaker
Yeah, she's still capitulating to what he's what he wants. It's not like I guess the way that it's framed in the movie makes it seem like maybe she's taking back some control in that moment.
00:40:01
Speaker
um But for me, like big picture, it obviously seems like she's ah she's kind of just doing what she has to do She doesn't know what's going to happen if she doesn't do this. It's not like she doesn't have a ton of options once they. Yeah, she's not a willing. Yeah, she's not really a willing participant.
00:40:20
Speaker
if that makes sense. She's not, um, doing it, you know, cause that's how she wants to spend her night. It's because she doesn't know. I think any, any any joy that she did derive from like doming him that there wasn't going to like, once she's arrested, there's not, there wasn't going to be any that.
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So I think that, that piece of it was interesting. Just, um, I guess getting into the more like political messages aspect of the movie.
00:40:55
Speaker
Cause I know that's been a ah point of discussion for sure. um and this is a woke podcast. So we, this is a, this is a woke podcast, of course. So I can get into all of the guys got woke. That's all of the, all of the woke.
00:41:10
Speaker
No, but that, that is interesting to me, especially because they kind of, don't know, maybe I'm realizing in real time that PTA is reinforcing all these stereotypes for like...
00:41:22
Speaker
perfidia becomes a mother and she rejects it so she's like rejecting kind of this womanly part of herself so that so that she can go out and do the revolution instead i agree that on paper that the no that that's like i i had those thoughts of like well she is you know like the black serial type of like the neglectful or abandoned you know uh a parent that abandons their kid but i think he colors it with enough nuance i think he's like at least a self-aware that that's like ah a thorny thing so that he's that like she she's a lot more nuanced than that i think i'll give him the credit of like yeah
00:42:07
Speaker
and so understanding did not that that she's not like one dimensional and in in that sense. So it it is it is definitely gesturing at that stereotype. And I don't think like, yeah, I think it's fair to to bring it up. And there ah even ah like you said, of like the women leading the revolution, there there's always been, i always felt it was kind of pandering. I don't know how you felt like the the kind of liberal idea, like during some elections where they're like,
00:42:36
Speaker
Oh, look, look at all the work the black women did, like black black women power won us this election. I'm like, you guys should be doing things to win the election, too. Don't just wait for the black women to come like save the movement. Yes, it is a very it's a very like I mean, it's a very Gen X liberal, even like elder millennial liberal thing that's happened where it's like When a black woman speaks, I sit my white ass down. know what I mean? I sit down. That's what it is. Like, that's... This movie definitely has that energy to it where it's like a black woman is speaking.
00:43:16
Speaker
and When Jungle Pussy talks, PCA sits down and listens. And he sits his white ass down and listens. um No, it's... yeah i don't know if he...
00:43:27
Speaker
don't know if he's aware of that piece because it does at some points feel like it's trying to be subversive. um When it comes to i think he he just likes to leave his politics kind of vague in his films. He doesn't really want to. Yeah, I think.
00:43:44
Speaker
I think even if we get the sense his heart is is in the right place, he's not tipping the scale too much, you even though like like we are clocking. Is he accidentally and telling on himself? Because i like you could see it in his other films, like it's like examining these power structures isn't a new thing like inherent I've heard people say I still have to read the inherent vice book some people say that the the movie wasn't as political but I'm like that movie is pretty political in terms of like ah the like highlighting like not just the era and what was going on but in terms like you're seeing straight up like government subverting movements and being in bed with white supremacists and also yeah uh
00:44:27
Speaker
yeah Like they straight up bring up Cointelpro. Like of like, how many mainstream movies does that like come up? it Like when the feds offer Doc, like to to be a snitch or something like, like, yeah. So I think yeah even if he himself is not tipping his hand, the fact that he's like putting this stuff in the movie is points to his credit. Like, like you said before, it like it ultimately, the movie speaks for itself. So it doesn't,
00:44:56
Speaker
you know, how liberal or progressive or ah radical he is. Like, I don't think he's that radical, but that doesn't, that that doesn't negate like the strength of the movie. Even if like we said, like sometimes is the message on certain parts, like a little muddled. Yeah.
00:45:14
Speaker
Yeah. and i I don't know if I would say it's muddled or just that he doesn't want to necessarily take a firm stance as a filmmaker. I think he wants to present these things and kind of let us come to our, not do our own research, but you know what mean? Like come to our own conclusions about what we've seen and,
00:45:33
Speaker
Which is fair, I think. yeah Yeah. And ultimately, like he wants he trusts the audience in that way. But he's also just making an entertaining movie. Like, I think like the comparison to Star Wars is fair in the sense of like this is like ah not just thematically, but like that this is like a propulsive movie. Like it's like three hours. It's such a crowd pleaser. yeah Such a crowd pleaser. I would say the first like the Profitia prologue segment is like more dour and serious. Like you're not getting the jokes that you're getting later in the movie. I would say Sean Penn's still kind of yes funny just because he provincially walks like a stick is up his ass the or a flag is up his ass the whole time. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But but but then once the time jump and, you know, ah Bob is like now the dude, then we're like full on getting like, you know, like laugh lines. Like it's like crowd, crowd pleasing stuff while still being serious and like dealing with weighty. Like we're seeing like ice rating this like this. Yeah.
00:46:33
Speaker
this community because of, I mean, well, it's Lockjaw doing it, but they're coming after Bob, Bob and Willa, you know, like the, yeah and i like, I love, we we've, we've talked around Benicio, but like, ah, he's so fucking. We do need to, we do need to tackle his performance for sure.
00:46:54
Speaker
For sure. I mean, it's the standout for me. I think the more I dwell on it, that yeah, it it's it's just I've always loved him, by this is like such a like gentle and because he he's a revolutionary he is like doing like he says he's got a ah you know latino underground railroad situation going on right so he is actively ah ah you know fighting the power but he's doing it in a gentle way like it it subverts the whole idea not only is he subverting the you know
00:47:31
Speaker
the white supremacist fascist power structures, he's subverting the idea that masculinity is like, needs to be like this, like rough, like, ah, I'm fucking need, I'm going to dominate you and strong. Like, like he could, he could kick your ass. He's a good, you know, so I don't know what the martial arts he's, I mean,
00:47:49
Speaker
i vaguely dose like maybe it's judo based on like the kind of leg throws we see willa doing later that could be judo i don't know but maybe there's gonna be some karate expert like no it's obviously this you know yeah no's You know, it's some kind of martial arts and that's all that matters at the end of the day.
00:48:09
Speaker
Right. But he could kick your ass, you know, like he's a sense. And so he knows how to do that. But he's most of the time he's just kind of he's doing what he has to do to get his people out.
00:48:21
Speaker
But he's also still actively helping. But he's not like, Bob, I'm busy, you know, or even when he finds out that they're here for Bob, he's not like, get the fuck out here. You're in danger. me He's like, OK, you know, he's Like he respects Bob Boer after he finds out that he's the French 75. So ah he's he's just like helping him and also just helping chill him out. Like, you know, he's like saying ocean waves and Bob like Bob is like in a like fucking panic spot.
00:48:50
Speaker
I mean, he got high at the worst time. you like we've all the worst possible time. Don't get paranoid, man.
Humor and Surreal Elements
00:48:57
Speaker
God, I love that scene.
00:49:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we've all gotten too high and then had to have like a the bad phone call, right? that's or just a conversation with ourselves to be like, hey, you're going to be OK. Let's not get to this. Even though the worst case scenario is happening for you. It's happening. Yes. No. He does have to deal with that.
00:49:17
Speaker
He's got to bring himself back to center. No. And and and Benicio's character is really good at. I think what's cool about him, too, is he subverts this like there's the contrast of the excessive bureaucracy of the French 75 where it's like, you know, the comrade Josh bit. You better know the code. Yeah, that whole subplot. And then there's him where he's like, i don't know any of that shit, but I'm just like doing what I do.
00:49:42
Speaker
Like, I'm I'm going to do the ah praxis. I'm going to do it. And he's doing it because it's the right thing. Like, it's like, yeah, I'm not. He's read theory like that like that doesn't matter. You know, like, right.
00:49:55
Speaker
He's he's being driven by his his empathy. And I think it's a point that like. As they're going through the building and doing, all you know, like Bob's frantic, he has to charge his phone and find out the rendezvous point.
00:50:08
Speaker
Sergio's taking the time to introduce him to all these people there. Like, I think he like wants us to be like, like, there's a human component to this of like, oh, my God, for sure. Like, of like, that's almost centering.
00:50:22
Speaker
probably for him so all he's like giving that to bob of like no here here are these people here's my family i love the moment when like and there's like the baby and bob kind of like does the the finger touch of the baby like when you see right kid yeah so like i think i think the fact that like the you know they're fucking there stormtroopers are at the gate they're ready to ah raid the place but he's like you know right I mean, when they're there, he's like, okay, Bob, time to go. But he's also like, he never like gets angry or like, like snaps at Bob or anything. Like it'd be easy for him to be like a kind of annoyed or inconvenienced. But then even when Bob gets, uh, you know, picked up, he, he, he, but he just wants to know what happened of like, uh, and his questions are just like, yeah, what happened?
00:51:14
Speaker
Where's my rifle? And then, you know, you, we don't see the scenes in between of where he like contacts his network. But that's a cool reveal, too, because we don't we see everyone in that building and then we see his like parkour skateboarding. Ninja Turtles, I call them like I've got to discuss the parkour Ninja Turtles rooftop scene. It's I think it's my favorite scene in the movie. It's like the best visual for me, like it's gorgeous them and it's hilarious.
00:51:45
Speaker
At the same time. Like the the the shot of him hitting the tree and falling down. Like, I'm sure that's a stunt guy. like I'm just curious, like how they filmed that, because it's like done the comedic beats of it are so perfect. But I'm like, you had to build that tree to the go that way. Right. Because it's like like the real tree branches are going to just like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:52:13
Speaker
Yeah, they're not silly putty or whatever that he gets. don't know. It's a it's like a that to me was a moment where I kind of realized like like PTA can be funny.
00:52:26
Speaker
Like he oh he's got a sense of humor. He's got comedic timing. it was the first, certainly the first viewing. It was like, you see him make, he completely whiffs the first jump, like not even a good attempt. He's nowhere close. Like nowhere close, but it continues. It's the legend that, yeah, yeah. The fact that it's, it's almost not, it's not one for one, but reminds me of the, the bit in a hot rod where he trips and then it just keeps falling down the mountain. you've, Yeah, just it progresses and it gets more and more ridiculous, like more and more absurd where it's like, why are these guys like, like they're aura farming? Like they're like doing these, these poses and like their silhouettes and every jump we watch Leo kind of try to keep up and he's almost giving up along the way. And then he eventually...
00:53:21
Speaker
falls out of a tree. So it's, um I think PTA has even said that even though it's dealing with like these real timely things that like this movie, like isn't really in our reality in the sense of like, if there's like the element of the absurd and and surreal, whether just a little thing, like the carpet rolling over the trap door when, when Sergio like goes down or,
00:53:42
Speaker
Or even we got to talk about the Christmas adventures. The fact, the fact that there's a white supre supremacist, like cult that, that worships Christmas and their, their underground facility doesn't make, cause it's like, okay, it's in the old guys, the basement. and And then, but then there's like, it's like, it's like something out of like, get smart or something where it's like, there's like these doors and then there's like a whole hallway and It's almost like the Men in Black secret layer or something yeah that they got to go through.
00:54:14
Speaker
it's like, where... who built that? What is the purpose of It's overly labyrinthian. It's very... and it's you know The scene where he's getting to the the door kind of goes on like a beat too long. and it's like this is It gives you time to realize, like hey, this is really silly, by the way. is yeah this This doesn't really make sense. By the way, this is this makes so yeah this makes no sense. and and then You see several doors down there. Where do those other doors go? Yeah, what's, yeah, what's the, I kind of appreciate the fact that this movie doesn't feel the need to explain everything to you.
00:54:54
Speaker
No, I love that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't want them to be like, here's the lore on the Christmas adventures. like Yeah, no, no, no. We're going to explain the whole hierarchy. Somebody's going to make this video, this, this YouTube video essay will come to pass. The Christmas adventures explained, and this is a thumbnail.
00:55:11
Speaker
Explained, yeah no. Yeah. No, they're white supremacists. You don't need to know more than that. pretty simple. No, like it's not hard. It's not hard. They're silly guys. Yeah. with With ridiculous, cartoonishly evil beliefs. And that's all you need to know. Because white supremacy is cartoonish. It's cartoonishly evil. There's no logic to it. So why wouldn't there also this depiction of it be illogical? in Yeah.
00:55:39
Speaker
And I think there's something funny about portraying that ideology, like as if it's so absurd that a normal person would, of course, think it's hilarious. Like it's, of course, it's hilarious that this doesn't seem attractive or logical in any way. so yeah, it's so silly. Why someone want especially Lockjaw who loves black women? Why would he want to be a part of it? Allegedly. Yeah. Loves them in his way. I suppose.
00:56:09
Speaker
In his way. But just the look on his face when there's initial interview and they're asking if he's ever had an interracial. man It looks like he should be like he just shit his pants like. were in Yeah, like there's some really good.
00:56:22
Speaker
some really good face acting in this face acting it's just acting no but better but like some facial expressions some physical acting happening you see the veins it looks like he's perpetually straining like he oh my god I literally okay so funny story I went to go for my rewatch and I took a notebook with me so I could like jot down things as they oh came up in preparation this is In preparation for this, because I didn't want to be caught slipping, of course.
00:56:51
Speaker
yeah um And I have a note that's like, like his head looks like a zit. Like it's so red and screaming and like it's there's you can see the contrast between the way his head looks and the rest of his body. It's like he he's so full of this, like this repressed energy and rage.
00:57:16
Speaker
To the point that it's hilarious. It's absurd. Yeah, yeah. it And he's full of shit. So that's a perfect. ah People have keep saying that he's playing ah Vince McMahon. I don't watch wrestling. seen this. Yeah, I've only seen memes of him. So I know what his walk looks like. And so I would have have to like...
00:57:36
Speaker
pay attention on rewatch Rob like yeah he does have I was just noticing that it he's just walking like he's got like a full diaper or something but like i guess I guess that's maybe that's how Vince McMahon walks so I mean sort of kind of yeah I'm not I'm no wrestling expert but I did grow up in a w WWE household so i I know that face I'm familiar with his his vibe his energy yeah I think Sean Penn captures it really well I don't know if that was an intentional like yeah choice or ah because ah he also – could to make the connection of like is is he RFK Jr.?
00:58:16
Speaker
i have seen that comparison as well. And i you know what? i can see I can see both sides when it comes to this. You just put them in a blender. issue. Combine them. you You kind of put him in a blender, literally, if you consider how his face looks in the last 10 minutes of the movie or whatever. all he does look like he was when he's walking away bloody. if Like it's it's it's hilarious. It's gross, but it's funny because it's he's almost like a Looney Tune where it's like, you know, like when he's unfazed, he's unfazed. Wile E. Coyote, the dynamite blows up in his face and he's just like angry about it
00:58:50
Speaker
Literally, he just gets up and storms off and he's like, well, that sucks. Like, you know, I mean, he's not he doesn't seem like it's it's really made too much of a dent in his his day. He's like, I'm still going to end up in the Christmas Adventurers Club. Like, I'm up right now.
00:59:08
Speaker
ball up top but yeah which just makes him just like he should go into hiding if he like put two he should be like this guy just showed up and blasted me with a shotgun they were probably sent by the secret evil cabal i'm trying to join yeah how many evil cabals could be trying to assassinate me. Unless he's just got mad haters where he just, I mean, he does, yeah he's a horrible guy who does bad shit, so he's just expecting random guys. say, probably, he's like a J. Edgar Hoover kind of figure. It's like, this guy sucks.
00:59:45
Speaker
I knew this day would come. There'd just be a random guy with a shotgun just pull up on me. So he does. that If he's not connecting that to the Christmas adventures or he's stupid in the other direction where he's so confident, where he's like, yeah, OK, they sent that guy.
01:00:00
Speaker
But i'm I can talk my way through it. I'm just going to go with the reverse rape. defense Yeah. The semen demon defense. That was by far the biggest laugh, both showings that went to was the semen demon line. Even the people in Indiana were laughing by semen. They were. I mean, come on. You can't. How can you not? It's objective. It's objective at that point.
01:00:22
Speaker
um No, he is a really he's a really interesting character to watch because he's like.
01:00:31
Speaker
I don't know. I think the whole Christmas Adventurers Club, they're really interesting. Yeah.
01:00:39
Speaker
Showcase of like what happens when the personal becomes political, if that makes sense, where it's like your your personal life needs to line up at least visually one to one with what you're spouting politically. So it's like he has to kill his own daughter to join this, like a tibit to reconcile.
01:01:00
Speaker
he' too He's willing to torch his whole life, like the the the the daughter of of the woman that he supposedly loves. Heavy quotations for the listeners. i Yeah, well, I'm just like it it to him, is that love? What is that? You know, like, yeah, what's the deal there?
01:01:19
Speaker
Like, what what how would you describe Because like, because we'll even ask him after the the paternity test, which the the fact that they have a field kit paternity test is like the implications of that are icky. Isn't it? is it It's a little bit like. They've used this for a lot other times. Yeah. Yeah. It gives you pause.
01:01:41
Speaker
Just gives you pause. Just makes you think.
Casting and Film Comparisons
01:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, but but but but but she asked him, like, did you love her or did you guys love each other or something to that that effect? Because which is is fair for her because she didn't you know, this is all new verse. She didn't she had been told her mom was a hero and stuff. So she didn't even really know the any of this. So that that that that's another part of her her journey is like not just the radicalization, but having to hold.
01:02:07
Speaker
these kind of contradictory truths in her mind because what ah yes, perfidia was a rat, but when Sean Penn says that she was a warrior and she had a warrior spirit, he's not wrong. That's like the one right thing he says in the whole movie. I think where it's like, you're correct. She was a warrior. Yes. ah So like both things can be true. Like that.
01:02:32
Speaker
And also, it you know but she left you know it's not like leaving a note undoes all that if uh because if anything i mean there is no mother figure but once regina king shows up like she almost is like fulfilling that role in terms of like trying to nurture well she has to you know get willa out of there but then also nurturing the She doesn't want to put out the flame, like the perfidious flame in Willa, even if it gives her pause. Like her look says like she's very quiet character, but like the way she's looking at Willa, like on the firing range, firing that rifle is like she's concerned. You know, she's like, hmm. Yeah.
01:03:20
Speaker
I've seen this before. Yeah, she's a she's an interesting character because she has such limited screen time and kind of a limited role. I'm assuming that Willa has never met her until the bathroom scene at the dance. Not like consciously, like she's there when they're going on the run. But she was met like ryan knew she was meeting her. No, so she is. Yeah.
01:03:45
Speaker
I don't think she knows who she is. No, I don't think she was like actively there in terms, in terms of people who were actually were there raising her throughout the you know, first chunk of her life. I mean, the Bob, Bob in between stupors and then the Sergio, I guess, you know, like, I don't know how long she's been taking the lessons with him, but that's, you know, your sports coaches are whoever teachers can become like those kinds of prayer ah parental figures. And,
01:04:12
Speaker
i I think, sir I mean, that's like besides respecting Bob's revolutionary past, like he cares for Will. I mean, there's a picture of her there on the the wall in the dojo. Like, so like he.
01:04:23
Speaker
Well, I mean, he knows he knows she has a cell phone and even Bob doesn't know that. He knows more about it her yeah her than his own dad. like that Yeah. yeah yeah they they have a They have a different kind of... but I think there's a reason that that's Willa's character introduction. Is in is days and i mean PTA saying don't trust non-binary people? fact that it's non-binary friend. Okay, you're trying to get in trouble. That's what you're trying to do. I'm i can believe i'm asking questions. i'm just I'm just raising the question.
01:04:53
Speaker
You're just noticing. It's in the movie. God, I have the exact same thought. It's so funny because I'm like, I'm trying really hard not to. Project, but there is that moment where it's like everyone else is, you know, being threatened with jail time and they're all fine with it. And of course, it's the it's the non-binary friend who's like, oh, I have the number.
01:05:17
Speaker
Come on. Like, you know what i mean? Out of the options. yeah right i mean we do see that everyone who gets caught kind of does eventually i mean like perfidia flips obviously ah in um the what's the guy who gave them the transponder i can't uh like you know somerville somerville he yeah yeah he gives up the location because his family's thread like they all have something true They all have something to lose so they can be threatened in that way.
01:05:49
Speaker
And apparently that guy, like that interrogator who's so scary, he's actually... He is so scary. He's a real military interrogator. ok that makes so much sense. i This is another note I have, was that that that officer is so effortlessly bone-chilling. Like, the way that he talks to...
01:06:11
Speaker
every this Just the way he conducts himself, like the way he very calmly makes threats is so off-putting and specific. It's like, oh, okay, you've actually done You've actually started living. Yeah, know yeah you you kill people, like for real. Like I, there's something different about you.
01:06:29
Speaker
I mean, i apparently there's, a you know, non-actors rounding out the cast because even Benicio and in Leo have said that, like, some of the the the people in in Sergio's movement were non-actors. And, like, I think maybe some of those skateboarders where they kind of have... have I could see that from the, like, the they, like, maybe get, like, one line from from them when they, you know...
01:06:50
Speaker
you know or talking to sensei but in a good way where you can like tell someone's not a trained actor but it like adds to like the real even if we've said like this is kind of like a surreal like unreal world in in many ways but the character emotionally there's truth in it and like the characters feel grounded in that way so i think that adding to like having non-actors in it it just like fleshes that out more Yeah, I think PTA is really good at pairing veteran actors with inexperienced actors and making...
01:07:24
Speaker
He does it in a way that like enhances their on screen relationships. So like in Phantom Thread, Vicky creeps. Is that how you pronounce it? She that's her first. like That's like her breakout role. And she's with Daniel Day-Lewis, who is like the king of kings. And then in this movie, Chase Infinity, i think this is her breakout role. And she's alongside.
01:07:44
Speaker
yeah Yeah, this is this is her first. ah She'd done TV, I think. This is her like first movie. ah Did you see the thing? I saw someone post that she was part of a ah K-pop dance cover. I didn't see that. How sweet. It's it's adorable.
01:08:03
Speaker
It's kind of a She's oh out of Chicago. That part did not see. tri dang Interesting. Interesting. Midwest gal. Yeah, the Midwest is. I mean, we're not messing around anymore.
01:08:14
Speaker
No, we mean we mean business. The coastal elites have had their day. and now ah Now it's our Now it's our turn. PTA, picture put your next movie in the Midwest.
01:08:28
Speaker
Wouldn't that be something? I would love for him to make a movie set in like, obviously this is my bias, but rural Wisconsin would be a hilarious place to make a movie because the people here are so... I mean, I have people in my town, in my neighborhood who are like, oh, they could be characters in this movie.
01:08:47
Speaker
Like they fit yeah they fit right in. for better and worse and not that any filmmaker making a movie the midwest is automatically doing a Fargo-esque thing but PTA does have Coen Brothers energy in this film so much so that it was like staggering to me because I there were definitely points where it's like oh this guy he doesn't play about burn after reading like loves he loves these movies
01:09:20
Speaker
and And the fact that, like, you like I mean, ah no country is straight up a Western, but, like, a lot of Coen Brothers movies had are just, like, have that vibe anyway. And I'd say this is, like, pretty Western-y, like, not just, like, the deserty landscape, but, you like, you're having all those wide shots of, like, when Lockjaw is delivering ah Willa to to to the bounty hunter. And then the fact that even the beat of the bounty hunter,
01:09:48
Speaker
you know, growing a conscious and then letting her go felt like kind of Western coded or almost something you would see out of. yeah ah You know what I mean? Like how I yeah like how i said, like Michael Mann characters ah have codes like that that. I associate that with like Westerns, like that kind of energy of criminals who are like, yeah, I'm a bad guy, but no, I don't do kids. You know, like. Yeah, I draw the line. Which is a good draw is a good line to draw. Yeah, I'd say. If you're going to draw any line, that should probably be the line.
01:10:20
Speaker
I mean, and she's clearly... Because he makes up some kind of some bullshit when he's delivering. He's like, oh, I shouldn't do this from the go. But Lockjaw's trying to talk him into it of like, yeah, she's like was part some drug smuggling or something. Right. She won't be missed. won't be missed. Yeah, but he very clearly sees through that. I mean, it takes him a minute. He has to sit in his car and think about it before he comes back. But he ultimately, dies doing it. So I'll give credit for that.
01:10:55
Speaker
He does die. no, it's that's a whole that I guess part of the movie and it's sprinkled throughout even like the score is very Western focused. I have a note that says it sounds like it's out of TCM at moments where it's like it's so it's just very like it's Americana. It's like don't know. It just has the vibe of um of like some some TV show that your dad is watching where the good guys win, but they have to do something, you know, kind of bad along the way. And, but it all works out in the end and it's fine. You know what mean? And the fact that him, uh, like the, that bounty hunter in those, I think they're called, they, he he calls them like the 1776 years, but they, they have, they, they're like Boogaloo boys coded or yeah. Yeah. So like that they take each other out.
01:11:51
Speaker
That feels like what yeah it does feel ironic in the kind of coony way. But I also thought back to ah that scene in Boogie Nights when Cheadle goes to the diner and everyone just like kills each other there. It's like like the cosmic coincidence of like, wait, what the fuck just happened?
01:12:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's it's it's definitely got shades of early PTA and Cohen. I think there's also like a... It's also got like Tarantino vibes almost. And I'm not gonna like...
01:12:25
Speaker
Certainly when it comes to the ending where it's like, oh, all the bad guys end up dead. That's a very like, I feel like Tarantino is a guy where it's like his villain is not surviving through the end of the movie.
01:12:37
Speaker
Maybe an inglorious bastard. He wraps it up, but also that he gets some kind of, judge I mean, they kill Hitler. And then, yeah, the actual villain of the movie is still he's um there he's out there but he's like conquered in a way you know like yes thematically the evil has been defeated it it still ends on the triumphant mode like the score is swelling and you know it's like yeah brad pitt put the swastika that nazi's head yeah he's never done anything wrong in his life
01:13:13
Speaker
ah Where would you put this in your ah PTA ranking? if you I mean, not that you you need to have like a a like list ready, but like i so I've seen some people like ready to go like, oh, number one is his best. I'm a weirdo. i have i have inherent Inherent Vice is just like such a comfort to me, that whole vibe. Hey, that's not surprising. i do know some people who do not play about inherent vice, like people near and dear to me. So I understand the angle. Like I get the I get the appeal of it.
01:13:45
Speaker
um I'm also I'm usually offended when I see people have it like last or second to last. I think that's crazy. But it's also when I was trying to do a like I was like, OK, let me do like some kind of letterbox list list here. It's it like doing a direct directors like the Coen brothers or even like when I tried to do a a Scorsese list. I'm like, how? Because like someone has to be last, but it's like which one the. That is, yeah, he makes it tough. The list that I was coming up with, like i like I said, like I was just pulling this out of my ass, like that there will be blood ended up last, but I'm like, that's also a masterpiece. So I'm like, i don't know. These are all like, I don't.
01:14:28
Speaker
there's no There's not a movie he's made where I'm like, that one, I don't know. But The Master took me what longer to come around on. That one was like... That's crazy. yeah It's transcendent, by the way, on first watch. Oh, I i i liked it on first watch. I think it put rewatches for it to... Me to, like, lock into, i guess... Not what the movie's saying, because I could, like, glean that a little from from the first watch. But in terms of, like, this being...
01:14:56
Speaker
the vibe I was about I don't know it could have been something about the the first time I watched but it's also it can be like a I guess sparse the right word like it's a movie where you're just watching like these kind of scenes or are tableaus where characters are just hanging out and and yes there is a plot but it's also it it's it's it's It's a little it's it's almost like more vague than some of his other movies. So I think that's like what I needed to.
01:15:26
Speaker
But that's now a thing like I like movies with that vibe. So like, yeah, of course, I love the the master. But then on this list that I just his spewed today, that's I have a like six.
01:15:41
Speaker
You have the master at... Okay, Nolan, I have to hear your ranking. I think you have to go first. I'm the guest, so I get to hear yours. And then I'll share mine. Okay.
01:15:52
Speaker
All right. This is a judgment-free zone. This is big. This is big, by the way. This is big. Okay. This is huge. Film Fade Nation will tear you apart if you answer wrong here.
01:16:02
Speaker
Okay. Herent Vice, number one. We already said that. That's not surprising. Number two... I got boogie nights but because but they it just holds a special place for for me. I like when I started getting in to to film that that was I mean, I guess that was my first PTA or it's just one that I latched on to.
01:16:25
Speaker
That's totally fair. Yeah. I think it's kind of like a i don't want to, okay. Controversial. It's kind of like Goodfellas in that way for me where it's like, Oh, absolutely. Just the nineties vibes and like the, it's a very formative movie for a lot of people.
01:16:40
Speaker
And it's clearly a movie written um or made by PTA after he's like, I watched a lot, a lot of Scorsese and then I made this. no kidding. No kidding. Yeah. Uh, okay. So number three, Magnolia.
01:16:53
Speaker
Um, four and again this is all tentative this is just vibe love vibe based i i'm ready to say one battle at number four i i i fucking really love this movie i yeah i don't know gotta i gotta re-watch it like 10 more times like all the other i got yeah i can't be mad at that to be honest i think And that's the thing. He does not.
01:17:21
Speaker
There's no misses here. I still haven't seen. no bad movie I haven't seen Heartache, his first movie. I haven't either, to be fair. so maybe maybe ah Maybe I'll watch Heartache and be like this. I want to be the guy who comes because most people have Heartache last, but I want to be the guy who is going to be the Heartache number one. I would be like, is actually, is best. far Actually, I'm doing revisionism. I'm doing Heartache revisionism and get with it or get left behind.
01:17:49
Speaker
Okay. Number five. I'm now I'm I'm I'm i'm confident and fine with that. That's the first part of the list. Now I'm starting to like I'm getting scared. I'm getting scared now that not well now. I'm starting to doubt everything.
01:18:03
Speaker
Five. I put his licorice pizza. It that it that's all these movies are ultimately comfort watches like even like the e regardless of the subject matter they just go down smooth but licorice pizza is straight up a hangout movie okay wait okay so pause so what i'm hearing is you have licorice pizza above punch
01:18:27
Speaker
It's above Phantom Threat and it's above There Will Be Blood. I hearing you right?
01:18:37
Speaker
I'm just checking because if so, I need to recalibrate my expectations because that's crazy.
Comparing PTA and Nolan
01:18:46
Speaker
Recalibrate your whole opinion of me.
01:18:48
Speaker
That's crazy. Yeah. i'm Well, hey and i I know sickos who have licorice pizza at number one. I'm like, you need to be on a list. Like, you need to be. That's completely fair. I think there's there's only a few right answers for me when it comes to number one PTA. But um when you get to five and there's no phantom thread, that gives me pause.
01:19:12
Speaker
That makes me worry. But like I said, this is hard because like there's like where there are no misses. There are no misses. It's like Nolan. When I rank Nolan's movies, it's like, OK, there's some that I kind of, I guess, enjoyed less.
01:19:26
Speaker
But even lesser ones like I fucking like insomnia. you know Yeah, no, it's good. So I'm like, wait, wait, wait. Even even the Dark Knight Rises, which is a silly movie, but yeah it does have Tom Hardy doing the Bane voice. So, you know, it's... I haven't heard that name in years. so No, that's funny. That's... He's a... He expects one of us in the records, brother.
01:19:52
Speaker
Literally. i think P.T. is a director where you can't... um Yeah, there I have resisted ranking him for so long and I've been tweeting about him for many, many years at this point, but I've never posted a ranking because I don't know that I'm going to put. water one's I guess I'm posting this episode, so it'll be out there. Yeah, well, I'll know and you'll know. I'll i'll be in hiding by then. They'll be posted like through a VPN and I'm like in Cuba with Perfidia.
01:20:20
Speaker
but Yeah, no. We're on the lam together. They'll kill you. Okay, sorry. you can Yeah, continue your ranking. I want to hear the rest of how the... Six. Yeah, you want to hear most of the rest of the sacrilege. Six is the master. Okay.
01:20:36
Speaker
Seven. Wait. Punch Drunk Love. Okay. Okay. Eight. I'm not reacting. and Phantom Threat. And then nine.
01:20:47
Speaker
There'll be blood. Okay.
01:20:54
Speaker
I almost just faint. i'm Daniel Day-Lewis found dead in a ditch. no i I'm so scandalized right now. He's incredible in those movies. I don't have actual complaints.
01:21:06
Speaker
it's It comes down to like a preference because it's like. Yeah, personal. Because. ah Wrong opinion.
01:21:14
Speaker
Your own personal opinion, which happens to be wrong as well. Because like, even if, you know, like Doc is the main character of Inherent Vice, but that so much of that movie and the PTAs I love are about the ensemble. And I think it's that there'll be blood is so singularly focused. Like you do get other great before. Like I, I'd argue Paul Dano's maybe even outdoing Daniel Day Lewis in some scenes because Paul Daniels fucking bringing it and in that movie. Yeah,
Character-Driven Comforts in Film
01:21:44
Speaker
he's not he's not messing around. He's not fucking messing around. I have a friend who like doesn't like Paul Daniels.
01:21:50
Speaker
What? He's so charming. How can you hate that guy? yeah He's fucking awesome. yeah so So like, but even though you do have those great like supporting performances still, it is you're you're like in Plainview's head. Well, not in his head, his head, because he's like, there is like an discreet ability, I guess, to him. But like, you're you're still you're you're in that perspective. The whole. Yeah, he's driving.
01:22:16
Speaker
Yeah, he's driving the. But you are kind of also in Punch Drunk Love. maybe Maybe I just like hanging out with Barrymore. So I guess fine. That's fair. Barry is way more pleasant.
01:22:29
Speaker
I mean, there's qualms. I would be scared at points hanging out with Barry. What do you mean? not No, not scared. Well, you know, he's a violent own guy, so I just know don't want him to be angry at me.
01:22:44
Speaker
I think he's he's misunderstood. He's you know he's got he's got a lot going on. And I think if you... if you see that, if you understand that, that you guys could be. I mean, I ranked it above there will be blood. So I understand very, pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. I ranked it second to last. So that's crazy by the way.
01:23:08
Speaker
i i think i I just love the romance in that movie in Punch Drunk. It is very good. and And then I didn't even know initially that that that like romance theme like that he needs me, he needs me, is like from ah the Popeye movie with ah i did not know that Robin Williams. is pop I've never seen it. That makes sense. That's a very PTA thing to take it from the Altman movie that everyone hates and is like, no, actually, I'm going to reclaim this song. Maybe I'll watch I'll be like, actually, Popeye is pretty good.
01:23:41
Speaker
Actually, maybe I'm an Altman head. Maybe. I don't know. You should watch The Long Goodbye. If you vibe with Inherent Vice at all, watching that really... already liked Inherent and vibed with Inherent Vice, but then watching The Long Goodbye, was like, this is like... It's almost like a spiritual sequel. Inherent Vice is almost like a spiritual sequel. It's very much... Ellie Gould is like...
01:24:06
Speaker
in a he you don't actually literally see him doing drugs, even though I'm sure Gould himself probably was on something. But like but like he has that he has that kind of stony vibe throughout. Like he keeps saying like his catchphrase is kind of like, that's all right with me. or you like this Yeah.
01:24:24
Speaker
He's just seeing a bunch of fucked up stuff like solving a murder. But he's like, that's all right with me, man. Yeah. they' It's a very um it's comforting to watch your like If your main character is not freaking out, then you're not freaking out as a viewer, if that makes sense. Right. Or maybe you are, but on some level, it's like, well, if he's fine with it, I'm fine with it, I guess. Yeah. It's like, I guess it'll be all right. He doesn't seem worried, so.
01:24:51
Speaker
He doesn't seem worried. Yeah. Even if he maybe should be worried. He be. He should be a little worried. No, I love a movie that's... I love movie that's like We get one character who's...
01:25:06
Speaker
like your everyman. He's grounded. He's like a regular person like you or I. And then he's just in like... clown world, Twilight Zone, like thrown from wacky situation to wacky situation. i i mean, one battle is little bit that because it's almost like totally it's totally that it's taking these like i people who've called this an action movie and it has action. It's paced like an action movie. Like I'll give it I'll give it that.
01:25:34
Speaker
But it's almost like subverting the idea of like, okay what if you just took like a loser, regular loser dad? did then put him in the Siddharth. Like, yeah, he he'll he's gonna whiff that roof jump because he's not a trained, like, commando. So he's not in shape. He's not gonna make that jump. there he's gonna He's gonna... He's flailing around through the whole movie. Like, he can't even... Once he gets to the convent and finds Willa, he's messing up the shot. Like, he's just like, I mean, he's acting on impulse. Like, he's just like, oh, she's there. There's Lockjaw. Fuck. Like, but he doesn't, like, you know, ah account for wind or, like, do any of the stuff that someone should do if they're going to.
01:26:16
Speaker
Like, he's not thinking about any of that. Like, he's just like, ah, got to shoot. Yeah, no, it's a very, it's it's almost, um it almost gives me after hours vibes. And this is I'm doing like the boss baby guy thing where I'm like, oh, I'm getting boss baby vibes from this. But like, but truly it does. I get what you're saying There's scenes in this where it's like, he is, he's our protagonist, but he's powerless and he's just being moved through these situations. Like certainly the scene with, uh,
01:26:46
Speaker
sensei when we kind of first meet him and they're
Generational Change and Cultural Impact
01:26:49
Speaker
going to his apartment and it's like he's kind of being dragged from place to place right now he doesn't really he's got no control of the situation in this moment i mean if it wasn't for sensei he would be in jail like yeah it would be yeah yeah it's a very movie set that part of the movie is very um
01:27:09
Speaker
Yeah, it just gives me the... Because in After Hours, the whole thing is it's like this Kafkaesque, this guy being put through these endless layers of... I don't know if you'd call it bureaucracy, but it's just like convo he's in like a rat maze, but the city is. Yeah. And he can't escape from it.
01:27:28
Speaker
And then he just like a rat maze that leads into another maze. He just ends up at work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one battle is kind of in a way.
01:27:39
Speaker
Obviously, the characters have gone on an internal journey from start to finish in the movie, but it's like they kind of do end up. where they started sense. I think he's presenting it in in like a hopeful context though of like this is gonna it is a circle and this will keep going but that's okay because it's not about it we're not going to reach an end point in one generation. It's not like it's like okay yes as Gen X did drop the ball but as long as you acknowledge that and then move forward we can work with that because you weren't it wasn't going to all be you guys anyway like one one yeah group
01:28:16
Speaker
is not going to ah you know upheave ah fascism in one go. like you You need to like just keep you kind of keep chipping away at it. It's this huge power structure, so it's not going to be undone overnight.
01:28:30
Speaker
Yeah, no that's a really I think it's a really interesting... um
01:28:36
Speaker
The way that it handles... Just time and like the way that that impacts. Certainly if you're a person who's like involved in the culture through the means of a revolution or whatever it might be, it's like just watching all of that kind of happen and how fast it can happen without you realizing. I think that's a huge.
01:28:58
Speaker
part of when we get reunited with Bob and Willa and he's like, I mean, in his mind, he probably has no idea that 16 years have passed. you know what mean? Right. He feels probably the same as he did.
01:29:09
Speaker
she She's a different person when he meets her. And like, that's, a but and basically he's different to her because she, would that that line, like that trauma response of like, who are you? When she yells at him, it's like a, like a primal, like, yeah, she is.
01:29:25
Speaker
i almost think she's like a, I would compare her to like a final girl where it's like she has been through so much by that point in the movie. Like she's at her breaking point and it's almost like she's not.
01:29:38
Speaker
Yeah, she's not who she was when we when we first met her. that's That's a great comparison because that's basically like what she has to do to like the beat that Christmas adventure is like it is like the kind of trap that the final girl would lay for like like Jason or Michael or something. and then Well, yeah, and she's so shaken too, but she's got a you know she's got to lock in. for I almost got... ah um Samara Weaving's like famous scream in Ready or Not where she's like it's so guttural and like visceral that's kind of what it gave me where it's like she is so beyond. She was she was ready to go though that I mean that trap was I don't know that I would have thought of that of like the the the what using the road against him which was so i mean the chase itself is create. It's generational. It's generational.
01:30:28
Speaker
I I I don't know how you think of that other than if you, I guess, live in California and you know that road, I guess. And your roads look like that? Yeah. We don't have hills in the Midwest, really. We're very flat here, so the the chase would be a little different.
01:30:45
Speaker
Yeah, no, it'd be a little more boring, but... but but no that is a fact that she's super innovative to just do the fact that he thought to do that as a, as a set piece. And then the fact that she thinks to take advantage of that and then picks the perfect spot to like camp. I mean, like, you know, she sets up and she's ready to go shoot some, what she, she like triple taps. She's like, takes them out. like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, she's, it is, it is very much her,
01:31:14
Speaker
um It's it's the part of her hero's journey where she like masters the elements and she's like, in you know, I mean, she's in control in that moment.
01:31:25
Speaker
She knows what she needs to do. and she's um it's like that final push that she needs. And then obviously when Bob shows up, she kind of collapses. And it's like she has been in fight or flight mode the entire movie up to that point, pretty much.
01:31:41
Speaker
Like with Bob, everyone she meets along her odyssey is kind of it serves like her journey in her arc. But there was a part of me where i was like, i in my mind, creating like the more traditional version of the thing where I'm like,
01:31:57
Speaker
oh, the this convent, these like nuns are armed and stuff. We're going to get a fucking badass battle where they're the getting into a gunfight with like the feds or ice or something.
01:32:09
Speaker
And I wanted that so bad. They just show they just get over all arrested. And and yeah I was like, damn. But I mean, that that's so yeah unceremoniously like, yeah, this is the end of them Yeah.
01:32:21
Speaker
That was disappointing to me. It's real, but it's also like, okay. So they literally did just serve to her, like Willow's narrative. And now they're Fox. like Yeah. No, it was.
01:32:32
Speaker
And it's sad because I, I thought that, um, That was my favorite location for sure in the movie. like it It looks so cool. The film's so beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful.
01:32:43
Speaker
um The scene where we meet back up with Will and she's firing the gun at the range or whatever, like that shot. oh my God, it's so good. It's so good. So I wish we could have spent a little more time there and like seen environment. Yeah, even even just like a training montage would have like been... Yeah, nothing crazy. Give me five more minutes though. just...
01:33:02
Speaker
Just more her firing the gun there really would. That's I think that's what we're getting down to. Yeah, I think that I think the we could have had more of Tiana Taylor firing guns. I think more women firing. I think there should just be three hours of women firing guns. Like, I don't know.
01:33:21
Speaker
I'd be seated. I'd be seated. Opening opening day for sure. OK, you're you're you're stalling for time to get get your your PTA list. You're totally fine. No, i I... I'm just fucking with you.
01:33:36
Speaker
No, I'm afraid. Here's here's the thing with my my rankings is I... You will be judged. yeah I mean, that's the thing. And I am so aware of that that I overthink it. And it's like, okay, well, I haven't seen this movie in a little while. i don't really know where it should go. Because I'm like, I definitely got to rewatch. Phantom Threat could end up just at...
01:33:58
Speaker
but Yeah, that because yeah you're going to have to see me about that. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's going to have to change between now and the next time the next time we talk, because I I can't believe you would even look me in the face and say that to me. I just had to put it so i they all had to go somewhere. i don't know.
01:34:19
Speaker
OK, well, my my tentative PTA ranking. Obviously, we have Phantom Thread at number one. um That was the movie that like got me back into movies.
01:34:31
Speaker
I think I'm always constantly comparing other movies that I see to Phantom Thread. Like it's the for me, it's the standard and it's certainly the standard within PTA's filmography for me.
01:34:44
Speaker
And there's DNA of that in one battle, so it's like all part of... A million percent. Even when it comes to like the score, i kind of was hearing whispers of... like blue there's There's... Obviously, it's the same composer, similar... um I'm sure they've got a working relationship at this point where they kind of know what vibe they're going for, but um even as a viewer, it was like, I can feel...
01:35:07
Speaker
like the influence of the phantom thread score here which is to me like a pretty iconic score um for pta for sure and then number two i've got the master okay and your responses are are to my list are making a lot more sense now it's like i was gonna say it's completely we're we basically have our lists in reverse yeah It's kind of like Tenet inverted. It is a little
Complex Portrayals of Love
01:35:35
Speaker
bit. Yes. Yes. It's a little Tenet coded. um The Master is such a beautiful movie to me, like just.
01:35:43
Speaker
From a purely visual standpoint, I think it's one of my favorite movies ever. of all time. Like they're definitely one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. Yeah. There are some shots in that where it's like, Oh my God, I did not know PTA like had the juice like that. I didn't know he like had that level of vision. Cause it's, um, is it weird to see the relationship of Amy Adams and, um, and, and Philip Seymour Hoffman and be like, goals.
01:36:15
Speaker
yeah I do think that's, you know what? It's a bit deranged, but I can't say too much because I see Reynolds and Alma and Phantom Thread and I'm like, that's my goals. That's also goals. Yeah, poison me. I'm fine with that.
01:36:30
Speaker
I think PTA has got an understanding of like of love that is it's just it's not something everybody would grasp on the first on the first try. you know what i mean? Like it's um because it's always convoluted and off right because you could look at that that relationship i'm talking about in in the master of like oh this is like toxic and manipulative and it is and it is but who's to say that that's i don't know that i would say that that's a loveless marriage well you know what is love
01:37:10
Speaker
Exactly. think it's OK. I think it was a different time. You know, they've got the whole movie is about how, you know, like like one battle examining these power structures, the master's examining that and right down to the movement itself of like actually like who's in charge here, who's calling the shots and who benefits as well. who benefits and it's like, oh, is his wife really the one who pulls the strings at the end of the day? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:37:41
Speaker
Yeah, he's, PT's got, he's absolutely got some mommy issues. The more I'm thinking, the more we talk through this, I'm like, he's got some interesting ideas about women and like how they interact with power and,
01:37:55
Speaker
um motherhood He's just got some interesting, some interesting ideas. He's got some stuff going on. I'd love to psychoanalyze him um one day. OK, number three, I've got Punch Drunk Love, which I just recently rewatched. so I'm pretty solid in that.
01:38:14
Speaker
positioning. um Great one. I thought that movie was it's just gorgeous. It's gorgeous. For such an early movie too. It sounds incredible too. Like the the way I talked about that that song from Popeye but the actual like score score is also like transcendent. So good and so like experimental and fun um which is something I really appreciate about PTA and Johnny Greenwood together is they can make some really don't know.
01:38:43
Speaker
um Subversive and just like interesting. um It's not Sonic. like Yeah, it's never the sound you would expect for that kind of scene or that kind of movie.
01:38:55
Speaker
I mean, now easy it works. I guess you could say it's expected could because it's like a trademark of like they're not going to do the expected thing, but you don't. It's it's it's it's almost atonal. Yes.
01:39:05
Speaker
Yes. At points. And yet it, it ends up working for me nine out of 10 times. I would say I also love in punch drunk love, just like the, um, don't, again, it's the simplicity of the story. Like that's a very cut and dry Not a lot goes on in that movie. It's like we meet Barry. He has this,
01:39:29
Speaker
ah Meet cute with this girl and then the subplot about him and Philip Seymour Hoffman, you know, I mean, like that tension kind of bubbles underneath, but then it amounts to pretty much nothing and they live happily ever after. Like, you know i mean? It's a right. It's I think it's an hour and a half pretty like cut and dry story, which I.
01:39:49
Speaker
I appreciate how much he was able to put into such a short runtime and simple story. But it's like the stakes couldn't be higher because it's low. They feel so high. God, they feel so high.
01:40:00
Speaker
It is. Yeah, he's very good at making um a pretty... benign situations seem like the end of the world or just like the intimacy of it well because you i think that's kind of one bad such an empathetic filmmaker so it's that like this is this is everything to barry so you feel that you're like exactly like no he needs to get with her really yeah we we are barry we we need to see this work out this is the most and important thing that has ever happened
01:40:31
Speaker
And it does feel like that when you're watching it. It's, it's so good. The scene where he's, um he doesn't kiss her and he goes downstairs and then he has to rush back upstairs and try to find her apartment. And he's running around for like an uncomfortably long amount of time. It's like the tension that I, that I feel while watching that sequence is like, if this doesn't happen, I don't know what I'll do. I
Impactful Introductions to PTA
01:40:55
Speaker
i don't know what I'll do. I'll kill everyone. I'll kill everyone.
01:40:58
Speaker
And then myself. it's It's all got to stop. um I guess what I'll do is I'll give you my current rankings and I'll come back and slot in OBAA at the end. Okay. um Number four, I've got There Will Be Blood.
01:41:12
Speaker
Okay. ah That is for, it's got a lot of sentimental value for me. It's the first PTA I ever watched. Oh, man. And just one of the first movies that I saw that was like, oh, movies can be like really good. Like, yeah, I didn't cook like this. Yeah, I didn't know that movies and i was seven at the time. So I was, you know, pretty under undercooked mentally at the time. So it was a big, um I guess, revelation for me. It's it's sparked interest. And I think it's ah obviously it's a classic.
01:41:47
Speaker
It's. there are posters in dorm rooms everywhere. Yeah. of that one But it's iconic for every, I mean, well, I guess I should say everything that psychotic is good because people have boondock saints posters in the room. So, but, but, but this is actually, the the you know, there'll be blood is actually earned.
01:42:06
Speaker
I can argue because it, that's, it stands up to the, it's like the test of time for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And you watch it and it's always the reaction is always the same of like, yeah, that was no you're right. That was as good as you said it was going to be like it. It lives up to the hype. Maybe one of like the best endings ever to like, I think it's certainly one of the most iconic, like without even having seen the movie, I feel like.
01:42:33
Speaker
you have an idea of or at least you've, you've seen a meme or a quote or something from that scene. Cause it's just so pervasive in like, yeah, I mean, of course there are, there's sketches and jokes about the, I drink your milkshake, but even just down to like, I I'll just randomly say to someone and be like, stop bullying me, Daniel. Yeah.
01:42:55
Speaker
Yeah, Paul Daniels, he's incredible in that. He's got such a... He's so good at playing like a pathetic little then like weasel of a guy. i i love it. I think he he does a great job. I think everyone in that movie is really between the two of them.
01:43:13
Speaker
But... um
01:43:16
Speaker
Yeah, small cast. They pretty much carry it and they do a great job. They make it feel very full. um So that's a movie that is very... It is a full meal for sure. um Okay, so next is Boogie Nights.
01:43:31
Speaker
Hell Which... I love Boogie Nights. i i The first time I watched it, I don't think I got it. And then I watched it a few years ago, like 2023, I want to say. And it clicked for me, like how funny it was.
01:43:46
Speaker
And then just how well made it is and how like So what was wrong with the second time? Were you like stupid or something? I'm kidding. I think I was stupid. No, I think I was stupid. It's funny. I've got like a a decently popular tweet about this where I'm like, oh, my frontal lobe developed and like I completely changed my mind on Boogie Nights. Now I can like like good movies.
01:44:07
Speaker
And I think – well, I think the first time I saw it, it was just my initial reaction was like this is – misogynistic and exploitative and there's boobs and stuff. I don't know. That kind of stuff made me uncomfortable as a 19 year old. I get that. Yeah.
01:44:23
Speaker
I didn't, you know, it was uncomfortable. mean, you know, like, and just watching it as a young lad, that's, that's, Even if you're like, it because i think that might have been one of the first movies to be like, oh, not all nudity in movies is good. news You know, because there'd be
Evolution of PTA's Style
01:44:39
Speaker
like sneaking R rated movies. It'd be like a thrill and rush to a bump. But then when you get to like some of the scenes and boogie dance, I'm like, I'm uncomfortable.
01:44:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I get that with Inherent Vice a little bit, too, where it's like, oh, there is some almost obviously he is trying to make you uncomfortable. um It feels like.
01:44:58
Speaker
But and again, when you're a 19 or it was also it was 2020. So it was the height of like, not the height of woke. That's not what I want to say. But it was like you can't there was a ah sentiment towards movies that tackle that kind of subject matter that has faded now. And so it's a little more.
01:45:21
Speaker
I'm sure PTA would tackle this so that subject matter in a different way. and He's a more mature... yeah and I mean, not just in terms of like his filmmaking ah on a technical skill, but just as ah ah a man and the father you know like you know he has he's a father. He's a father of the daughter. so like This is true, yeah. It's definitely... yeah His movies have become...
01:45:48
Speaker
tamer he switched from coke to weed so he switched from that's exactly that's such a good way of putting it that's the arc i'm getting at least i mean it seems like pretty clear he's a he's a weed dad now yeah and we're at like a really good moment in that arc i think right before the peak we're gonna get gonna get a peak like stoner drama comedy in the next couple years i think it's seeing Inherent Vice and then seeing this, it's like he's working towards something big, something. He should do ayahuasca or something. He should do.
01:46:23
Speaker
He's got to do shrooms. I think it would take everything to the next level. I think he did do shrooms and that's why he made Magnolia. um he He took something. He did something. He had yeah some ego death when he was writing that movie.
01:46:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, Boogie Nights is really good. It's really funny. i think Don Cheadle is really funny in that. Don Cheadle, John C. Reilly? Yeah, randomly. Yeah, just randomly a really um funny entry, but also very...
01:46:51
Speaker
dark and serious and like a really good way of balancing those vibes, those themes. Yeah. I think that was like kind of unlocking for me, like when I was getting it into this, that movie and then also like the Coen brothers more, it was like, Oh, you can kind of be all think multiple things. A movie doesn't just have to be serious. Like it can be all right yeah be disturbing. And then also fun. Like even if within the same scene, it can do, it can do both things.
01:47:20
Speaker
Yeah, no, like we, yeah, we, we can, we low-key contain multitudes. So we can do, you know. Like little Bill Clinton at midnight on New Year's Eve is so fucked up.
01:47:34
Speaker
But it's like a punchline almost. Well, that's kind of how I felt about, um like in one battle, there's the scene where we, where Alana Haim dies and it's like, it's so abrupt and like yeah shocking.
01:47:50
Speaker
um And then. i don't know, just that entire part of the movie, there's it's like whiplash between the serious things and the things that make you giggle. So it's a it's a really interesting mix. He's really good at putting those two things opposite each other. Yeah. um Kind of in the same
Emotional Dynamics in Film
01:48:09
Speaker
sequence and and making it work.
01:48:14
Speaker
OK, so what was that? That was five. Number six is Inherent Vice. Which I watched for the first time recently. here you No, I'm kidding. and That's actually pretty high for a first so I know some people first watch, they're just like, I don't know. is i thought it was really fun and funny. I think it it was one of the funnier. I think that was ah movie I saw, which made me realize that PTA can be really funny because there's some gags in that that are like.
01:48:45
Speaker
I don't know. there's There's just moments in that movie that feel... There's no way he doesn't know this is hilarious. Oh, yeah. He absolutely knows what he's doing. i mean, Josh Brolin in it is so fucking... and cra the The chemistry he has with Joaquin Phoenix, it's like...
01:49:04
Speaker
ah ah there's There's a thing I love in movies where it's like you can tell a character hates someone another one's guts, but you're like... but also kind of like want to kiss them or something, right? yeah's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:49:19
Speaker
It's the yeah love and hate are very they're very close emotions. They're two sides of the the same coin.
01:49:28
Speaker
Which I think one battle kind of explores too, which is interesting. Just
Tom Cruise's Memorable Roles
01:49:33
Speaker
the proximity between and hating something at the same time. Also, Catherine Waterston, I think her name is. The fact that he lets her tower over Joaquin Phoenix is, I think, an interesting... I just respect it because you don't see it often where it's like, no, she's definitely taller than him.
01:49:55
Speaker
Like, you know... Yeah, he doesn't mess around. I that explains why he's never worked with Tom Cruise, I think. um Oh, or never again after Magnolia. Yeah, well, yeah never again, I should say.
01:50:07
Speaker
um Which is funny enough, my next entry brings us yeah is Magnolia, which I have not rewatched since the pandemic, to be fair. It's been a minute. I'm kind of just going off the vibe, like the emotional memory of that, you know, watch where I'm like, yeah. Yeah.
01:50:29
Speaker
I think it'll it'll definitely climb the ranks the next time I watch it, because I have done a full 180 on Tom Cruise. Like I am a I'm a Tom Cruise believer now. And I was ah ah Tom Cruise detractor for many years. So um at the first time I watched this movie, I was very anti him. And I think.
01:50:49
Speaker
And now now you join Scientology. Now, in this that that's actually why I came on today is to to talk to you, um ah tell you the good news. but ah yeah I'm actually pretty open-minded. so those Yeah, I think... Those movies are pretty good, so... Hey, well...
01:51:08
Speaker
Yeah, we should we should connect. I'll call your people. so so No, it's I think I'll i'll enjoy it so much more this time because seeing clips of him in it, just the performance he gives that alone. Anything like that sense, even when like, yeah, he did that in. um Wow. Brain fart. Why am I forgetting the Kubrick? Eyes Wide Shut. He did that and Eyes Wide Shut the same year.
01:51:39
Speaker
And then, yeah, he did, you know, other non-action movies early 2000. Like you have, I mean, I guess Claros kind of actually, but, but like that' that's, that's still a different kind of performance than everything that came after that. But like that that specific Magnolia, like vibe he's in is he's not like dipped back into that yet.
01:51:59
Speaker
Yeah, and it's such a, it's such a, obviously... he should have done it in The Last Mission Impossible. Ethan Hunt should have started crying, sobbing. yeah No, it's ah it's funny. It's very on the nose for him. And I don't, I wasn't around, not to date myself, but I don't really know what his public image was like at the time. now...
01:52:22
Speaker
now it's been rehabilitated and changed so much. Now he's the king and president and CEO of movies. He's literally the king of movies. And it's undeniable because like I said, I also tried to deny it for many years, but it's just true. will question his ability to anoint successors. successors i mean, I like Glenn Powell. Like a hit man was was great and stuff, but I don't know. I don't know. feel like...
01:52:53
Speaker
Tom should be looking at some other talent we got going on. Yeah, he's yeah. You know, I don't pretend to know how his how his mind works. He needs to do a movie with Tim, Timothy Chalamet or and or Austin Butler. Maybe the same put Tom is in the next dude.
01:53:13
Speaker
That would be so monumental. I haven't read the book, so I don't know who that we would be, but you worked work it out. there's some There's a role in there for him. There's a role in there somewhere for him.
01:53:24
Speaker
um Yeah, no, Magnolia is a really humbling role for him, I feel. um it's just It's kind of what's making people latch on Leo's current era, which is just like kind of breaking yourself down and not doing...
01:53:40
Speaker
not doing the rock thing where it's like, where I can never lose. Yeah. It can never be portrayed negatively experienced. He's like, no, I will be it an impotent loser. And
Charm of 'Licorice Pizza'
01:53:53
Speaker
yeah, suck it. Everything my character does. Right. And don't know if, I just don't know Tom would ever do something like that again. So it feels special, like a time capsule almost.
01:54:03
Speaker
I would like him to go back to it. But yeah, he is at the opposite. that i mean, that's so like where the Mission Impossible movies have left off where it's like in he is Jesus Christ himself and can do no wrong.
01:54:15
Speaker
but Yeah, and you can't die either. Yeah. even though Even the bad things, see he people who he fucked over in earlier movies show up and they're like, no, Ethan, thank you. I forgive you. Yeah, actually, you did me a favor. I met my cool Eskimo wife because of you. life So it's actually good.
01:54:36
Speaker
Actually, ah it's all fine. And I don't even remember why I was angry begin with. um Okay, and then my final of the ones I've seen is licorice pizza, which is not to say it's bad, by the way. i think I have it at four stars, three and a half or four stars.
01:54:55
Speaker
I enjoyed licorice pizza. I know that's not the popular opinion. People did not like it. Yeah. But I thought it was fine. It's not like I feel like it's either there's no there's the very little in between. There's like there's the people who are like ah they're either ah offended at it are like, no, this is how dare PTA should to be on a watch list so or the, I do know a couple, there's shooters for it who are like actually liquor speed.
01:55:29
Speaker
I can't go that hard and be like number one, but it's a cozy movie. Like it it is, it it's a sweet, it's straight up a hangout movie. Like there, there's, yeah there's not,
01:55:40
Speaker
really apply other than guy likes the soldier woman, but the like yeah yeah it's a little bit, it's another one of those kind of rom-commy type. Like it's like he PTA loves love.
01:55:51
Speaker
Like at the end of the day, he's, he's a lover for sure. And the fact that i think that's a guy like Gary when he was a kid is interesting. Like not that like he's making it like a one for one in that way. But he that's what he said. He based it off like a friend when he was that age growing up in that area. Like that he had a friend like that who was like with a solar woman. And also I had all these like money making schemes. I don't know if he sold like water bed or maybe the water bed thing was also from this this right. But like he was basing this all off like a guy he knew. Yeah.
01:56:23
Speaker
Yeah, well, I've also seen like him because obviously Alana Haim is the love interest and him talking about like having a crush on her mom when he was young or it's like a there's some lore there.
01:56:36
Speaker
But I think if you watch it. Bradley Cooper is also so really good like, I'm not saying I don't like dramatic Bradley Cooper because I think he's a very talented actor.
01:56:51
Speaker
But when he gets when he devotes himself to being goofy, it's very magnificent. like It really is. I think it's it's very it's the Leo thing of like when you're when you get a little goofy with it.
01:57:07
Speaker
We're right there with you. I would like to see like an actual full like who even even if you you don't even have to have them at the the center of it, but just like a larger
PTA's Storytelling Techniques
01:57:16
Speaker
Bradley Cooper role in another PTA movie where he can like around more.
01:57:21
Speaker
i think they'd work well together. I think Bradley Cooper's got. he's or put him at the center of it put him have him the pta humiliation ritual yeah that's what he needs the humiliation ritual he could also play a very sandler's berry kind of character like he right he's got to break himself down that's kind of what he i feel like like silver linings thinks it's doing so so much played i know not sort of kinda yeah i could see the argument for that
01:57:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guy with unnamed mental health issues or whatever. i think they name it in silver linings. Do they say he's bipolar? I think they say he's bipolar. I think they don't name they don't name Tiffany. that her name? They don't name situation. She's going through stuff. Yeah, she's she's got something vaguely BPD-like, but we're not going to take a stance on that.
01:58:19
Speaker
It's almost... I mean, I'm not saying movies that do give the definitive diagnosis aren't as good. I think it depends on the story you're telling, but there is something I like about the... Like, kind of just letting you... The the audience, like, sit in the uncertainty of, like, what is going on with them?
01:58:40
Speaker
No, 100%. I think there's a... Yeah, there's like a...
01:58:46
Speaker
yeah there's there's like a desire obviously in the audience to know what's going on. It makes you lean forward because no one's sitting down and being like, so here's the anger disorder you have. i mean, he clearly has an anger disorder, but I don't need that said out loud because I can. Yeah. Here's the answer for you. I can just watch his behavior and be like, Oh yeah.
01:59:12
Speaker
Yeah. I appreciate that. I appreciate not needing to hand. And it's also better because Then you're not giving people. i don't know. a weird thing happens where people watch a movie and they're like, well, that character reminds me of me. And so I have what they have.
01:59:28
Speaker
You know, just because you related to someone. It's like, no, you're actually just a human. And you felt for them because you have yeah youre just a guy. we we there's you there's these things called universal experiences we all feel i i with people like you you know there's a unofficial representations that they you know growing up but you don't always see ah yeah you know positive black representation so you know you just make it make you make it up you're like yeah piccolo and dragon ball z he's black even though right yeah
02:00:02
Speaker
the Skin is green and the voice actor is white or, you know, Japanese, depending on the dub or what. Right. Right. He's black to me. He's he's. Yeah.
02:00:13
Speaker
So something very black about Pickle. and
Ranking 'One Battle' and Its Appeal
02:00:18
Speaker
He's very black coated.
02:00:22
Speaker
Yeah, I don't there's anything wrong. oh so So that's all the the ones before ah one battle. where So where would one battle go now? No pressure. is going to be drum the hardest decision I've ever had to make, I think.
02:00:37
Speaker
If I were to slot it in somewhere. oh my God. Oh, my God. i think I'm putting it in between.
02:00:47
Speaker
There will be blood and boogie nights. I think I'm putting it five, which seems so low. yeah You have to remember, I'm like... pta glazer number one i don't think he can make a bad movie i mean i don't think that five is so five is pretty i had it i had a four so i think i think that's for something that just came out too like you've seen it twice i've seen it i didn't have time to actually go back to the theater so i may download the camera and watch some that fbi is not listening who cares uh
02:01:22
Speaker
I'm going to leave that part out I'll just put a sensor bit over it. Just bleep it. Just ble there just is a long bleep. do that in the But yeah, I need to watch it like 20 more times. Like I've said so many of these other ones. And it's to cook. It needs to marinate. I need to marinate on it. And I need to force everyone who hasn't seen it to watch it. Like how often rewatch other favorites where like, you haven't seen this? Sit down.
02:01:56
Speaker
We're doing this. yeah yeah Right now, today, we're changing that. Too bad. will you Cancel your plans. Yeah. I do think this one is going to age really well. It's it's such a like it's so accessible for him. I feel like it's like anyone could enjoy certainly like the last two thirds of this movie in the beginning. Maybe you could be off.
02:02:22
Speaker
Especially like like if you're the PTA isms or if you're just like, I don't know, some some. silly conservative you might be like oh they glorify and revolutionary violence i don't know what feel about well that baby did break the law so they have every right they have every right to track her down she did she did break the law technically Yeah, but I think the movie would win, even if... I mean, i don't know. those i can't imagine to know how someone like that thinks i that they you literally live in another reality. so that's ah But i think the movie transcends politics in a way, almost, where it's like... It's like Star Wars. like You just get swept up in like these emotional journeys going on. like I feel like... Yeah, somehow the politics is in the background, which is weird because it's a very political, like the premise of the movie is very political. play we see political stuff happening. Yeah, but it's really the emotional journey.
02:03:28
Speaker
Yes, it is. ah It's a family drama at the end of the day. It's about a father and a daughter. And it's. everything else is set dressing, which I don't, I don't mind. I kind of enjoy when there's this big elaborate plot to tell a very human story. I think interstellar has that.
02:03:45
Speaker
lot of Nolan movies have that, but where it's like this big, you know, interdimensional journey. What you down front a camera and read marks to us? That might be better, right?
02:03:56
Speaker
That might, hey, that would be, that would be more useful to the, the movement. So... That's how his efforts would be best spent. feel like you need a movie to write, I'm not saying that movies can't be important in terms like, at least, it could be a gauge of like where the culture and people are at.
02:04:18
Speaker
But man, if you weren't radicalized by the agenda. Just your day-to-day life. if Yeah, if you weren't radicalized the end of the first series.
02:04:29
Speaker
Yeah. you What are you doing? You're years behind. You're years behind. You've got your streets behind. got to catch up. Yeah, I agree. I think there's a
Political Themes in Fictional Settings
02:04:39
Speaker
– I mentioned earlier the James Gunn controversy with him saying that Superman's not about Palestine or whatever, and that – And I have always said that where it's like you can't necessarily expect these people with these huge studio deals to be your political mouthpiece.
02:04:58
Speaker
It just doesn't really. Even if he did do that, I don't think you think you're going to expect him to acknowledge it. think he's going to own it. Yeah. Do you think he's going to come out and say that? even if it's and I don't think it's true. I think I think I believe him in terms of like you certainly can read. You can read whatever you want and into anything. i think it makes it. make yeah He's playing it safe. I feel I think it. Yeah. And also being the generation that he's from and there's ah so many other, I feel like in his superhero stuff, like Cold War coded stuff, like especially like the picture of South America in the the Suicide Squad where it's like, I think, I think that that's, that country is more, it's more like Russia, like maybe Russia and Afghanistan or something, you know, like it's like, that' that's the era that he's like referencing. Yeah. It's, it's weird. I think movies have for a long time been able to
02:05:51
Speaker
by using fictional places and fictional situations, make like these non-statements about things that are happening politically in the world. Like, I think that's been a thing for...
02:06:03
Speaker
a really long time, like Marvel movies are famous for having like some small Eastern European country get invaded by this other unnamed. Yeah.
Cultural Snapshots in PTA Films
02:06:12
Speaker
This unnamed entity is doing this thing that's vaguely similar. Because they still use real, it's like New York exists, but you're also making up other, it's like a weird, I almost prefer. can't have both. Yeah. being Where I'm just like, no, just make it all make believe.
02:06:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, New York and Sokovia cannot exist in the same universe. It just doesn't really make sense for my brain. Right. Right. Wakanda is real, though. It's a real place. but That's immutable. That's immutable. And it's it's not even really something worth arguing about at this point. I actually should just remove that. and That's not something I'm supposed to say out loud. how't you might even You should just cut that. I don't think that should be in the edit. I'm not supposed to talk about it. Fuck.
02:06:55
Speaker
That was crazy. yeah I think and your OPSEC is terrible. He just gave us up. So. it was Just so you know, was already uphill. They like didn't want to let my light skin ass in. But that now I know I can blew up my spot. You as if the one billion dollar movie wasn't enough. Then you mentioned it on the pod.
02:07:16
Speaker
Well, the movie makes it so no one would think it's kind of how the idea of like, if we were living in the Matrix, no one would know we're in the Matrix because they made a series of movies called The Matrix. So we would.
02:07:29
Speaker
Exactly. Obviously, we're not in the simulation. Hide it in plain sight. Right. Right, right, right. They'll never see. It's fine. Well, I think we've we've covered a lot of ground here. i i think this was a great discussion. ah do
Closing Thoughts and Farewell
02:07:45
Speaker
you have any ah any closing thoughts or anything you want add?
02:07:54
Speaker
I think everyone who can see this movie should see it. I think you should see on the biggest screen you can. I saw it twice, once Standard and then once in the Dolby...
02:08:05
Speaker
in like the dolby whatever word, there's like super screen and the ultra. Yeah. and and know And it was not 70 millimeter. It was not IMAX, but it was still a much better experience to be able to be more immersed. However you can on a screen. like Yeah, I know there'll be less options as it goes on, especially because video needs like a jillion screens now. So who cares about comment. No comment.
02:08:34
Speaker
it um no comment I'll start a war with them right now. Talk about one battle after another. No, they don't. yeah They don't listen to podcasts. They can barely read. um but No comment.
02:08:50
Speaker
No comment. um I think at the end of the day, I think you've been trying to get me murdered on this podcast. I think you're trying to get to say things that are so inflammatory.
02:09:03
Speaker
So controversial, but no, it's it's don't see on the biggest screen you can if you can't fall for the trap, though. So that's good. No, and I will not. I'm media trained. This is my first ever podcast. I'm media trained. But it's clear. so But I hope to have you on again and also try and entrap you further times. Oh my gosh, for sure. One of, you know, over the, I hope, many episodes we do together, we will, there will be some cancelable soundbites for sure. For sure. Absolutely. There might even be some in this in this very episode, actually. But...
02:09:42
Speaker
most will We'll see how people react. Is there anything you want plug?
02:09:48
Speaker
No. um I guess just my Twitter. Follow it. It's a great account. much yeah too much and Too much attention over there as it is right now. but if you It's either a feed for famine for me. i get to I'll i'll you blow my nose and a tweet will blow up. Or i ah You know, i don't want to be one of those people are like, oh, I'm not getting traction. I'm shadow banned. But I also think maybe I will. share Because it'll be like, like, oh, did I share too many Charlie Kirk jokes or something? No, no. It can go Yes, it can go either way. It's, you know, yeah Twitter is a very ah it's very fickle. You never know.
02:10:32
Speaker
You never know what tro the women you know what what she's going to... Yeah. i So I try not to draw too much attention because whether I like it or not, the attention usually eventually comes. Usually because I said something that people are not happy about. so Well, who cares? People are stupid. We'll remove this from that and say if you...
02:10:53
Speaker
If you liked what you heard on this podcast, do not follow my Twitter. I do not say well thought out things over there. No, it's great. It's I i love I love seeing your your movie thoughts. I mean, that's one of the things that inspired me to to invite you on. So but i i love I mean, these conversations are a good way to because you can only say so much in a tweet. So it's great to be able to like right so many characters. long form conversation. So yeah, look forward to having you on again uh, yeah, you can follow me ah at the Doug files and that's also my YouTube, um, and just, uh, more stuff here. So, uh, take care.
02:11:42
Speaker
A semen demon. That's correct.