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Pluribus Season 1 - Episodes 4 & 5
11 Plays26 minutes ago
Got milk? No, but we have plenty of juice! Nick and Doug dive back into Pluribus and discuss the ways they're similar to Carol, if her books actually are better than Billy Shakes' plays and theorize about what's to come
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Transcript
Introduction & Hosts' Background
00:00:14
Speaker
I'm Doug Davenport. I'm Nick Ewers. And we're... These Guys Got Juice. And we saw Pluribus Episodes 4 and 5. Hello, Carol.
00:00:26
Speaker
This is a recording. At the tone, you can request anything you might need. We'll do our best to provide it. Our feelings for you haven't changed, Carol. But after everything that's happened, we just need a little space.
Themes in 'Pluribus' - Relationships & Character Exploration
00:00:39
Speaker
I like that. That was very a tasteful way of taking a break from somebody. um Yeah, because this this this shows about a relationship. Ultimately, you know, she she things ended kind of forcefully with her previous love. She didn't really get a say in that matter that that relationship ended. And now she has a new other in her life. It just happens to be every and the other living thing in the planet.
00:01:07
Speaker
So if you're if you haven't watched episode five yet, that's all it's not a spoiler. i get maybe, but that's, you know, that's from episode five. But yeah. you You should have watched it by now. It's a shame on you if you haven't. what are you doing? yeah Yeah, shame on you. Catch up. What are you doing? in Pause this. Go watch episode five. Then come back and hear our talk on episode four. That's the one.
00:01:32
Speaker
That's the way it should be. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, just spoilers ahead for episodes four and five. But, I mean, how are you feeling so far these past two weeks of Pluribus?
00:01:44
Speaker
Oh, I'm loving it. I mean, I've, yeah, I've still seen people complaining that like, oh, does the show like spin its wheels? it's ah It's like run through its premise or already or some some bullshit like that. Or is it like slowed down too much? I'm like, yeah, you guys are dumb. This is all great, interesting stuff. Like, I feel like we're barely scratching the surface of like,
Vince Gilligan's Role & Creative Influence
00:02:10
Speaker
what's going on like like I have theories and we can talk about it but I feel like there's like just Vince and co you know like I don't want to just make it seem like that he he is singular and did everything him there's a team of writers I'll give them all credit I don't know all their names but they're they're all everyone's doing a great job but just Vince King Vince it's all him he did it with his money Yeah, fuck Apple. They didn't do they didnt do shit.
00:02:43
Speaker
He's friends with the mayor of Albuquerque. who saw in this episode, so that's how he was allowed to shoot. He's doing all of this himself, guys. Writing, directing. He's actually playing Carol, too. He's got like a Mission Impossible mask and he just pulls it off afterwards. That's how every episode was directed, actually. When it doesn't say directed by Vince Gilligan, it was actually directed by him under a Mission Impossible style mask.
00:03:13
Speaker
Which is like an added degree of difficulty because you have to like – imagine like breathing and like just generally thinking underneath one of those masks. ah It probably gets pretty hot under there, and especially under the Albuquerque sun. like but So, problem you know, kudos to Vince.
00:03:28
Speaker
ah I can only imagine. Yeah. But like I saying, like I think – This show is so inventive and creative and it helps it being like character driven by such a a unique and interesting protagonist. So even when things, quote unquote, slow down and become more introspective, they're still interesting. But I don't think the show is slow because like it does a good job of I mean, Breaking Bad did this and saw also to ah the degree where.
00:03:58
Speaker
you kind of put yourself in the protagonist's shoes and you start gaming out, what would I do in
Character Dynamics & Genre Elements in 'Pluribus'
00:04:03
Speaker
this scenario? And this is such a unique situation. Like, yes, it's drawing pieces from like alien invasion things or post-apocalyptic stuff, but it is such a specific dynamic that it does kind of like make you linger on like, yeah, what would I do in this scenario? And the fact that she is...
00:04:25
Speaker
Like, she you know, she processed things in her own way, and but she is a pretty active... Like, she's not just laying back and taking it. Like, you you especially compared to some of the other survivors we've seen, she's actively trying to, like, game this out and, like, solve it. Like, she, yes, she's like, you know, it's...
00:04:43
Speaker
The odds are stacked against her a lot, but that doesn't deter, if anything, that's almost like spurring her on more of like that. She really, really will not give up. And and we see that in this episode, especially of like the lengths that she's willing to go through to, um you know, see if she can end this.
00:05:02
Speaker
Yeah, and one thing I do kind of find interesting in putting your place in the putting yourself in the character's shoes is that like the threat itself isn't even that threatening to begin with. They have a pretty reasonable pitch that has like sold basically every other character we've seen on screen except for the guy from Paraguay, which we can get into.
00:05:30
Speaker
a little bit more but uh yeah uh yeah i agree because it's not like unlike you know ah i mean even in invasion of the body snatchers there is an element where they do try and pitch them on like hey we've ended war like all this is is like good now but there still are inherently more threatening whereas this is like presented as like so like sterile and nice it's just kind of just almost like that they've done a service to the planet Yeah, which, so it does kind of make it, like, I've heard people had difficulties with rooting for Carol just because it kind of makes her come off a little bit more unpleasant. But I mean, I kind of...
00:06:16
Speaker
I don't know. That's not really the case for me. I do find myself not fully agreeing with everything Carol does, but regularly sympathizing with her. i will say we can talk about episode five a little bit more. It does kind of frustrate me how slow she is a little bit to pick up on some of the stuff happening. I feel like...
00:06:40
Speaker
as an audience, we're a bit ahead of Carol, but um I don't know. i'm I'm really enjoying like the rate at which she's discovering information and we're discovering it with her. I like the methodical pacing behind it all.
00:07:02
Speaker
um I don't know. it just The show's working for me on a couple different levels right now. Yeah, yeah, same
AI Themes & Real-World Parallels
00:07:10
Speaker
here. And and I, yeah, I put back when people say she's not, like, relatable, like, yeah, she's flawed, but that's, like, most interesting protagonists are flawed humans, like, we as as are all of us. But, like, I, honestly, I relate to her as someone who's, like, maybe I'm not, like, as as miserable as as she presents. But the idea that when she pushes back against like the, the, the collective is like the perfect foil for her because it's like this, this ah phony niceness, this like performative, nice, you know, like you could, I haven't, I've heard this before,
00:07:50
Speaker
term you thrown around like to ah toxic positivity you know like if you meet someone who's just like so chipper and like agreeable to like an annoying degree where it's like no one's really like that you're like you're hiding something and I kind of relate to her of like attitude of that of like wanting to call bullshit like there's something going on here I'm get to the bottom of it because you there's no way you're just like this this nice and pleasant and and so I think that makes me want to root for her because I'm like, yeah, show them, Carol. they Expose their bullshit.
00:08:26
Speaker
I really like that. they I think it's episode four when they get into the conversion therapy thing and that Carol's mom had sent her there. and Oh, yeah. And she saying they all looked like you. They all had smiles on their faces. But, like...
00:08:42
Speaker
Realistically, whether those people at the conversion therapy knew it or not, they were up to something sinister and like frankly not good for the person who it was being who was being subjected to it all.
00:08:57
Speaker
And I don't know, I've kind of you. I mean, we've talked about this before. We both like went to Catholic Church. We've probably we're probably no strangers to the super religious person who's incredibly nice. They always have a smile on their face, but they're almost like at a certain point, like kind of abusive or using their belief to.
00:09:24
Speaker
uh some kind of harmful degree do understand no i i know exactly what you're talking about it's almost like another means of of control like i forget what review that was we specifically got in into that maybe conclave maybe ah ah what was uh How's that one 824 horror movie that was by the heretic heretic? hair may drop yeah It's clean. um it It's reminiscent of like nuns in Catholic school. Not saying, you know, not to wage war against all the nuns listening to the podcast, but. They had a reputation of the nuns are scary. You don't want to cross the nuns. But they were some of the nicest people I encountered.
00:10:09
Speaker
And I'd never got in trouble in school, but they always had a reputation for if you got in trouble, they would turn into some of the scariest people you met. And, you know, it kind of reminds me of that a little bit.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. i i think there's definitely parallels to draw there. And I think it's significant that this is the episode that we learn that backstory with her. And and it it makes it makes a lot of her reactions to this it hit even harder, like in in that context that she, you know, ah had been. her parents had tried to send her to this conversion therapy camp. It it it makes me think back to that first, very first episode when she's talking to, but i think it's like the agriculture secretary or whatever, basically like the acting president at at that point. But like saying that, like, ah you know, we're working on it until we find a solution. She's like a solution to what it is like to, you know, to fix you, you know, or like to make you like us. And so it's like, yeah, she's lived this already. Like, yeah, The society trying to break her down and, you know, make her just be like everyone else.
00:11:16
Speaker
And when anything can draw like any kind of connection or ah parallel to religion or specifically Christianity, that's like catnip for me. But ah like the more I'm watching the show, I am seeing the AI of it all that you have talked about as well. It just stands out and becomes more apparent, even though Vince Gilligan has talked about how he can start a conceiving of this show Like 10 years ago, around the time when they were doing Better Call Saul. And I don't know how much of it is a performance from him. He's like, oh, shucks, I'm just a southern guy who doesn't know much. I don't pay no mind. I almost feel like he's almost like the Coen brothers in that way, where they're like. Oh, gee, I don't know. I guess we read some stuff, some you know, like where they like pretend not to know what what what their where their ideas are coming from and stuff. It's like, Vince, you're just I think maybe that's for him is maybe just genuine so Southern humbleness because he just like won't brag be like, yeah, I'm the shit. I'm so fucking smart. Suck my nuts. Like you you won't say that. So he has to just be like, all gee. Well, then part of me is wondering, okay, well, maybe he didn't fully conceive of this because as you already mentioned, there's a writer's room.
00:12:31
Speaker
and how When were they writing this season compared to when he conceived of all of this? How many more ideas maybe got brought to the table when he was with a room working on this show? Maybe he's being honest and he didn't bring... the AI elements fully into. Maybe was writer. But the other writers could have. And then also there's the element of creators often unconsciously put stuff in there where, you know, like, I if you've ever seen that clip of, I forget what it's on, but Steven Spielberg's talking to someone about close encounters and the guy is going like, So your mother was a musician and your, you know, your father worked in tech or like in the science field. And like, that's the commute. We communicate with the aliens through like the combination of those two. And like Spielberg on the moment is like, whoa, like he hadn't put that together. That was like so personal from, from his life. He was like, oh, okay. Yeah. I can see that. I, yeah, I wonder.
00:13:34
Speaker
I don't know. It would be interesting. I don't know if we're ever going to have any more details behind whether or not Vince Gilligan is being honest, really, in these interviews.
00:13:47
Speaker
Because at the end of the day, it kind of doesn't matter. like Because I think it's it's it's in their... I definitely subscribe to like death of the author of mindset a little bit where it's like, regardless of their initial ah intentions, like the work is its own thing and like it it has a life of its own. So like it's like... It's in there, whether whoever intended to put it there or not. And I think we see more and more of that in these two episodes. ah The next episode, especially, but it's definitely in this one, too. Like when she runs her little experiment to see if it can lie. And she asked the one guy in to ask about her book and the fact that it.
00:14:29
Speaker
and It won't because its main goal is like keep her happy. and it but it also cannot for like actually form opinions like it. Yeah, it's taking. Yeah, it's the minds of everyone else on the planet, but it doesn't really have any thoughts of its own. So when it's asking like, how does my work compare to Shakespeare? It's just like, yeah, equal. Yeah.
00:14:55
Speaker
like Yeah, because there is drum one there is someone who probably thinks that within the Hive mind. It's an easy pull for them. I mean, people who are fans of the Waikaro books probably... There are certain people who probably haven't even read Shakespeare. So they're like, oh yeah, this is better than Shakespeare. It's an easy pull for them to really compliment her in that way or make that comparison. man, that conversation...
00:15:23
Speaker
rung so true of just talking to chat gbt it it have you ever asked for chat gbt's opinion on anything it's just like great you're perfect nothing's nothing's wrong with this i've i've seen other people post their things normally i get like it'll just come up when i'm just searching things that i get the a accidentally usually that i get the ai ah like text written summary of it. But while we're on this note, this kind of dark, but I feel like it's it's relevant. Have you heard the story about, i believe it was a teenager who was like 16 and Chet GPT like
Societal Portrayals & The Hive Mind Concept
00:16:01
Speaker
ah was he was feeling suicidal and talked to Chet GPT and basically like
00:16:06
Speaker
it helped him formulate his suicide plan and he killed himself. And the CEO had was saying that like, well, that's not our fault because that violates the, tree he's violating the terms of service of, of chat GVT by doing that. Not, not that like, oh, our bad, let's fix our the you program to the fact that it won't try and talk you out of that. Yeah. like or just give you links to like a suicide hotline or something he's like no actually he was using it wrong just fuck that guy sam altman i think is the the ceo or whatever would fuck that guy it's just taking zero accountability that that that is pretty dark and how is that not a built-in feature but It does kind of but because if you Google anything with suicide in it, it'll just like here's some number. If I even Google anything about, you know, like if I'm say I'm researching something, I'm writing something about like someone using drugs. I want to look up like, hey, how does what's let's deal with this one. No, it's a substance. They'll be like yeah substance abuse hotline. You know, like those are going to be the first results Google gives you. I'm like, I'm not actually about to do heroin. Google calm down.
00:17:20
Speaker
It's crazy these chat GBT people didn't think about. That seems like basic 101. Oh, my God. Because at least the hive mind, when car ah Carol asked for heroin, they do are like, they they agree, but they're like, hey, ah Carol, there's lots of risk involved. And there's like, you know, wings of people in this hospital who may never, you might not even live, you know, that that were addicted to it. So ah it does...
00:17:49
Speaker
offer the negatives, but ultimately, kind of like ChatGBT is like, well, we're not going to fully talk you out of it. you' Like, we'll give you the heroin. And I did like that little ah thing that they dropped that nugget when they were saying that, yeah, people who were addicts when this happened, their bodies are sick and recovering, and they're in hospital wings getting treatment. And I was just like, yeah, of course. I just love the...
00:18:17
Speaker
level of thought that was put into this show where it seems like anytime something from our normal world is just dropped into this or referenced it there's some new twist or take on it because of the hives existence and all of this i i really love the thoughtfulness that the show's operating in Yeah, it doesn't – it really doesn't even allow you to – like you might start to think like, oh, have they not considered this facet of like who would be connected to the Hive? And like, no, we've thought of that too.
00:18:51
Speaker
And also, i mean, maybe I'll change my stance on this. ah But as we go further along with these last two episodes, I've kind of stopped thinking about the Hive as like – like a blended soup of everyone's like conscious. Like, yes, it does have the memories of everyone that has joined it. But I, I'm starting to think of it as just an it, like this is one mind, one consciousness that is like everyone else is like an appendage of it. Like it's kind of just in the wording, like it's basically
00:19:22
Speaker
Saying the same thing, but to me, I think there's a subtle distinction in terms of like kind how we define consciousness, of what where it's like it's not like billions of minds working in unison. I think this is one mind using billions of bodies.
00:19:35
Speaker
Yeah, because a little bit is... That's hinted at a little bit in the last episode when they get Zosia drunk, and then they take that even further where Carol, at the end of this one, just drugs Zosia. And...
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of shows it's like, okay, one body could fail, but this whole unit is not affected or taken down in any way. And then if that body dies, they still retain every bit of information that that body knew. And appendage is kind of, it sounds like an ideal word for this.
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah, we see a little bit of, I feel like, ah I don't know whether it's just they lose more of themselves the longer they're connected, or maybe they're just feel like they have to act less around Carol. But I've noticed subtle differences. Like they stop referring to, they used to be like, this individual is named such and such. Whereas when the guy she brings in to ask about Shakespeare in her writing says, this individual was named Carol.
00:20:37
Speaker
You know, like i picked up on that, too. I picked up on that pretty quickly and was like, OK, there's something to that, I feel. Because that's different than how it talked before. So I'm like, was that just performative that it was trying to make her feel comfortable? Or is there some like gradual erasing of the self, you know, like the longer you're online with this thing? It's like, yeah, this isn't.
00:21:02
Speaker
ah yeah this is this is like one thing that's just like overriding who you were now so i'm not too familiar with the way a hive or a hive mind would work but is there a source is there a main like physical body that this thing like where would you kill it at basically is what i'm asking Because, like, we don't fully even know what the origin is. Like, if this came, this virus came from a signal, then it's like, do you have to kill the original signal? and is it is Is it that girl?
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. But, but it. And then it's like, we don't even know that the signal that we picked up was the, you know, like that could have just been the last planet to get infected with this thing. And it's just been like a chain email, kind of like I had the I alluded to the theory of of before. But i'm like, how far do you have to go back to the original sort? Kind of like how like to stop the entity, you need the source code. You need to go to the Sevastopol. Does Carol need to go to the Sevastopol? Does she need to go underwater to the sub but in space? of me was like, do you have to kill the lab rats? Do you have to kill um the main girl? What if at the end of all the... Like, you know, they're freeing the animals. What if the animals are connected in all of this? Because, I mean... It's hard to tell. We see like some coyotes or wolves at a certain point, and we see like this like raven or a crow eating some food, so it's hard to tell. But like the rats were able to carry it and transfer it to people. What if at the very end of this whole show, it's Carol coming face-to-face with a rat, and she has to kill the first rat that was infected, and that's the host it's a rat that's operating but but it's like a mutated rat or have you ever heard of uh what do they call them a a rat king it's it's like basically i've heard the term it's where a group of rats become entangled by their tails and that they like become like a single mass like they're not a hive mind they still you know have their individual thing but they move as one like their bodies are linked then
00:23:25
Speaker
Kind of like the opposite of what's happening here, right? Right, because their bodies aren't linked, but their minds are linked. I wonder if there's something to that. What if we were surprisingly on to something? We just cracked to the show.
00:23:40
Speaker
ah It's a Rat King or Or like an inverse rat king or something because, yeah, because like the rat kings are physically linked. They can only move like in one direction. the the The collective can individually move all these different pieces, but it's like one...
00:23:57
Speaker
Towards one goal. And so, yeah, it's interesting. And I think what is great about this episode is like we've said before, she is actively like, yeah, she's not a scientist, but she is she is going about it basically using like the scientific method of like when she starts writing out like, what okay, what do I know about them? And then, you know like testing theories and that the whole point of that Shakespeare thing is like, okay, they cannot lie. So then when she tried her plan to like, you know, drug and question Zosia, because basically Zosia will not say...
00:24:36
Speaker
that there is no way to reverse this, which could, yeah I agree with Carol's like confirmation that there is, because like if, if the answer was just no, they would just say no. have Yeah. Cause Carol's like, is there a way to reverse this? And she's like, we can't talk about that basically. That's off limits. It's like, well, if the answer was no, you would have just said no. It's pretty apparent. And I like that Carol wasn't slow to get that. That would have been frustrating if it took like a full episode to get there. glad she was able to piece that together.
00:25:10
Speaker
But um yeah, that's what leads like the heroin thing and her taking action. She gets like the, I forgot the name of the drug, but it's like a truth serum. Sodium, fentol, uh, uh,
00:25:25
Speaker
but pentothal i guess is the brand name but yeah it's called ibuprofen a
00:25:35
Speaker
yeah ah ultra short acting barbiturate uh it can be used as an anesthesia but like yeah if you're on it you're just gonna start start saying shit so like and i like that she tested on herself first so she's just like that which Is risky, but, you know, whatever. Fuck it. the reason We're dealing with the fate of the human race. Let's fucking go. ah or maybe maybe she's done it recreationally. I don't know. She seems like she's lived a little. Like, she definitely... She definitely she doesn't do the heroin that she gets that day, but she's done it before, apparently. so Yeah, She flushes the heroin that she got. But um yeah, that's where we find out that she thinks Zos is hot. That didn't really surprise me. I kind of had a feeling that she was going to be attracted to her at least. that ties into a little, I think there's more than just the physical attraction that when she like, you know, stops the plane and wants her to stay, but that definitely is part of it. And that's the whole reason that they sent her, right? Like, is like a method of control over Carol is like, yeah, this is like kind of based on the original model of your, uh, your hero, uh, but to more to your type, you know? So like, and that definitely was intentional.
00:26:55
Speaker
As an audience member, I feel like I'm letting my guard down in a way that the show wants you to let their guard down with Zosia. And I feel like I said this before, but I feel like we're going to get a moment of some type of double cross or backstab or some heartbreaking moment that's going to devastate Carol involving zosha I don't think it's that there that she's going to break away from the maybe maybe that is because, you know, they've talked about reversing it and maybe Zosa is one of the first that gets reversed. But I feel like Zosa is going to be a more heartbreak. Yeah, I think so, too, because like.
00:27:32
Speaker
I don't see it's hard to imagine a scenario where she she because she would not willingly choose to side with Carol over the hive. So like she can't. So unless Carol finds some way to free her of that, then Zosia will end up, you know, there will come a point where we'll be either like Carol or the hive and they're about self-preservation. So they're not.
00:27:54
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I agree with you. There's going to be some kind of betrayal there. Yeah, and part of me is wondering, so Carol ends up drugging Zosia with that truth serum to try and get answers out of her. She doesn't really get answers, but so the hive, they seem pretty alert to They can probably tell when one of their appendages is feeling a little weird or kind of off. I don't remember telling this one to do drugs. What's going on?
00:28:24
Speaker
Yeah, so they all kind of come storing, but immediately, like, Before getting into episode five, i knew that this was that that this was probably going to lead to some kind of change in dynamic between the hive and Carol. And I kind of was wondering, it was kind of scary seeing them crowd around Carol. I was I know they said they can't hurt, but it still felt incredibly threatening.
00:28:47
Speaker
Like they can't hurt Carol, but can they like drag her off? Can they restrain Carol? Like what? Yeah. What are the limitations? Because she says back off and they do step back. But is that up to a point? Like, are they just humoring her? Like, you know, like what if it came down to it, will they physically without her consent remove her?
00:29:13
Speaker
yeah Where's the line between self-preservation and not harming somebody else? Where in their like biological imperative and their instinct, o where what gets prioritized when it really comes down to it? Because survival has to be the priority, right? like That's like how all living things operate. So it's... Can they change? Because in episode five, we see a change in dynamic, but that could be like chalked up to self-preservation. But like, can they learn from these things and adapt and be like, oh, this Carol's behaving this way. So we can maybe harm Carol.
00:29:55
Speaker
I'm excited to see like where they go or are the rules set up the rules that the show will be sticking to. And there's no, they're not going to write ways to get out of them. Is that the corner we're in?
00:30:07
Speaker
Because I could see it going either way. I would admire the show for sticking to it of like, these are the rules. We're not changing them. But also there is the wiggle room of like, we don't know how, like, yes, they can't lie in that way, but maybe they're there's technicalities that they know, you know, of like how to work around certain things in terms of like, if they need, because that death toll that we were given of like, when they took over, how many people died, those couldn't have just been...
00:30:37
Speaker
Like, yeah, there could be some incidental deaths of like, ah you know, when people froze up, some planes fell of the sky, like accidents and such and such. But those I don't think that toll is all from that. So it's like, were there people that got in their way that they stopped forcefully, you know?
00:30:57
Speaker
And we found that, okay, like a workaround that they have is omitting the truth. Like what could they be omitting from things that they've already admitted? What are details that they could left out that would provide more context and change how how we look at this stuff?
00:31:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's interesting. want to see how this dynamic develops. But before we ah move on from this episode, oh, also, it's just a random bit of trivia, but ah there's already been crossover with, like, Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, obviously the Albuquerque connection, but, like, there's, like, some cast...
00:31:34
Speaker
cro like not just like main like character people but like just people from like the crew of those shows like the person that revives osha is the same crew member apparently that when bob odenkirk had a heat stroke on the set of better call saul revive bob odenkirk is in which is like a crazy meta thing and also damn Kind of fucked up for Rhea Shehorn because she was there, saw Bob Odenkirk collapse. so then It was easy to act. She knew she was in good hands.
00:32:07
Speaker
like But is that traumatic? like are you reliving You almost saw your co-star die and then you're seeing like it almost be reenacted? That's crazy. Maybe she picked him. That's why she was like, I want to act alongside him because he's saved a life before.
00:32:23
Speaker
Right. it it It is kind of wild that this is also set in the fictional city of Albuquerque that Breaking Bad was set in. In the the fictional city of Albuquerque in the fictional state of New Mexico. Can you imagine if there was a New Mexico?
00:32:39
Speaker
It's kind of like Maine. Yeah. I mean, we don't even have an old Mexico, but it's kind of like Maine or Philadelphia. And Stephen King made up Maine. Yeah. And Chamon made up Philadelphia.
00:32:52
Speaker
Yeah, those they real those aren't real places. Yeah. the oh yeah I love a good imagination. ah We should talk about our boy from Paraguay for a little bit. Oh, yeah. That's what the episode opens on. I mean, he's not like given a ton of like plot stuff. It's more just like giving context. But I think this will pay off um um and kind of had we had only heard one side of the conversation when Carol calls him before. So we get context to like, how has he been living and what was he doing at that exact moment?
00:33:29
Speaker
which is funny to learn that when his frustration, ah this guy's been in total isolation. And at the very moment Carol's calling, he's trying to work up the nerve to like eat fucking canned dog food. Yeah, that was a great scene because he wrote it he's eating it and is almost going to gag on it And then he gets the phone call, goes back and he's like, this dog food is pretty good. Starts to eat like not enjoying it, but just forcing himself to enjoy it Like how hungry do you have? not goingnna day Because it's been i i they haven't showed up. They didn't show us the counter this episode. I don't remember. Then and also this is like going back a little bit. Day two or three, maybe, because this would be episode the beginning of episode three that this is happening. Right. And so it like hasn't fully been a week. But I mean, i I will start going crazy if I go even a day without eating. So oh those storage units would have been open immediately. He has a lot of self-control, like which ah is a character detail. It kind of reveals like almost his professionalism, because even when he breaks into him, he writes a note of like apology. Like, yeah, sorry. Management had to open the storage lockers and like you will be compensated. or So it's like some kind of note, like apologizing to the customers. It's like what customers, bro? No one's coming back.
00:34:58
Speaker
He seems like he's more in the dark than Carol is about all of this stuff, though. He's had, from what it seems like, zero communication. It seems more like he's living the I am legend type of thing where he's like, nope, I am just zero communication. You guys are the others. I'm living in my house. I'm not interacting with you at all.
00:35:21
Speaker
And they leave food, but he just doesn't take it, which is smart. Like, ah I mean, Carol's also refused their offers to like for food, which, you know, we'll talk about episode five is maybe the right call. but I mean, we don't know what's going on with them in consumption and food and stuff like because I going all the way back to the first episode I was trying to like pick out in real time like what was different about her without knowing that that was going to be like one of the main plot threads I thought it was like going to be something in the moment of like oh everyone else in the bar was drinking this kind of drink but Carol had this kind of drink and that was what they put the saliva in or something it's like no they all had
00:36:02
Speaker
We're all, you know, like having mixed beverages and, you know, alcohol. So i it was it wasn't it it wasn't anything like that easy. So it's it's it's going to come down. Like they don't even know. The collective doesn't know what makes her different. could Maybe it's like some kind of genetic thing. But ah being on the safe side, I would not.
00:36:26
Speaker
want to eat stuff they gave i mean i yeah i don't know what i would do because i would get hungry but i would just like try and scavenge the stores that are around i'd probably be like her of like oh you emptied out my like local like supermarket or whatever can you like bring the stuff back but then i would then even be worried what where uh you know i'd be a little sus of like the you know, the products from the store. I'd be like, do i need to disinfect this shit or something? you got to go start hunting those dogs out there, leaving traps for them in your yard and cooking them up. It's go, go hunt for your own meat.
00:37:07
Speaker
Basically. I, I would be worried that what, Whatever they but you know, whenever they figure out how to convert me, I would be worried that it would just be in my food eventually. And then I would be converted. But also maybe that's the right way to go. Maybe you want to go when you don't see it coming.
00:37:24
Speaker
Well, yeah, obviously I don't want them just holding me down and injecting something into my neck. That's bad. But yeah, I don't want to go either way. But yeah, I guess if I if it would like slowly and with unknowingly that that is preferable if I had if I had to pick one. But yeah, this this dude's just been like you said, I am legending it. And so yeah.
00:37:47
Speaker
What does he write down after Carol says you know calls back angrily and tells him to to fuck his mother? He writes Carol and then like S. Turges or something and with like question marks around it. like i don't I think he heard her last name. It looked like he wrote out how her name sounds and then put question marks around Yeah. yeah Yeah, so...
00:38:10
Speaker
And I mean, well, I guess we already said spoilers for episode five and we can kind of start to tiptoe in there. But I wonder if he's getting the tapes Carol's sending. I wonder if we're going to see him getting any tapes because she sent us she said to send it to all 12 and to translate it.
00:38:28
Speaker
Yeah. ah So let's, let's, let's start there because she said she records ah these, these tapes and kind of is just confirming that like there is a way to turn this back. I don't know how I tried to get that out of them, but there is a way. And since this dynamic has shifted, like they completely evacuate the town and and leave her alone. Like we only hear,
00:38:56
Speaker
Through those those those voice recordings that, you know, hello, Carol, this is a recording at the tone. Understandably so. she like dosed one of them unconsensually. That's pretty fucked up.
00:39:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. Like in terms of relationship, if your significant other does that to you, should probably get out of there. Yeah. Also, ah the it's funny that that recording is another kind of Better Call Saul shout out because the actor that played Howard Hamlin, who's like kind of like a rival of Saul's in it, is the voice on the recording. So ah that's I'm forgetting that actor's name, but.
00:39:35
Speaker
Yeah, he's great. So with him, him being like this very customer service sounding like voices is. is And that's like basically. But there's Walter White going to show up. That's what I want to know. When is Walt going to show up? Heisenberg.
00:39:52
Speaker
He's going to be like, we that's not milk. And then he throws the card and it explodes, blows out a whole floor. You're like, wow, everyone there must be dead. And then he walks out. He's going to walk in in the night. What if like the reveal for episode six before getting too into it is it's Walter White alive. That's why she makes that face.
00:40:17
Speaker
She's seen Breaking Bad. Yeah. In this universe, it's kind of like if you've ever seen the theory of ah where Tarantino says like ah all how some of his movies, there's a different tiers of reality where like some of his movies are movies that characters in his movies would go see. Yeah.
00:40:34
Speaker
I don't know how he's going to fit in his little Fortnite short into there. I guess that that's just Fortnite exist in in his universe. So that's what the characters would see you when they play Fortnite. the Kill Bill 3 is going to open with a Fortnite animated style cutscene.
00:40:52
Speaker
It's just so silly that like he's like, I'm only doing 10 because I don't want to be washed up and like cringy like some of my favorite directors. I don't even know who he's referring to when he's when he says that because I'm like, there's old working directors now are doing like Scorsese is doing some of his best shit now.
00:41:07
Speaker
i would I would say he's just referring to Eastwood exclusively. Hey, I like juror number two. I don't know if it's his best movie, but he's still doing good stuff. He's the reason why it didn't get a wide release. Tarantino put his foot down. He intervened. He's like juror number two, juror number no.
00:41:28
Speaker
Juror number two, more like straight to HBO Max. i don't know. Anyway. So Tarantino's part of the hive mind. He probably is.
00:41:39
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised. I wonder if the hive mind knows if OJ did it or not. Answers everything. yeah everything i would be asking him, I'd be like, who killed JFK? give me Give me all the answers to... Just give me a list of everyone the CIA has had killed. Yeah. Give us all the truth behind Epstein's Island.
00:42:00
Speaker
ah Release list. and Release the list. The Hivemind could do it. They have all the answers. why They should open the prison system back up and fix it. Think of all the things the high of mind could be doing, but choose not to. That's how we know they're sinister. Because, you know, i think i think even though we know in this ah episode is further confirmation is that they're up to something. and we knew that.
00:42:26
Speaker
like they they are the antagonist of the series. I do think the show is showing a little bit of, and we got that like kind of with the other survivors perspective of like the the idea, a collectivist society isn't inherently nefarious. It's just nefarious because this is like what it's being used for and what's, you know, it's erasing just totally your, your person. But like, I feel like it's almost, there are moments that are kind of,
00:42:54
Speaker
a little bit poking fun at the idea of like American rugged individualism of like one person cannot do everything. And Carol continually brushes up against the limits of that. I mean, we even see in this episode of like, yeah, once society, you know, starts breaking down, you don't have the...
00:43:16
Speaker
just just, just having the lights on, you know, that keep the predators would be predators away. Natural predators, like that becomes a problem. And, and she can't even figure out like at the recurring joke of like this, there's such a simple solution to like, when she's trying to like unlock the shotgun from the cop car, she can't do it. So i like that. Her solution just to drive the car through the fence. ah Kind of Madam Webb style. thought I, I, interpret that as a Madam Web throwback of when she would ram the ambulance into every building. um Real Madam Web vibes. Put that use that as the poll quote for Pluribus. It reminded me of Madam Web. Doug Davenport. These guys got juice.
00:44:02
Speaker
her Glowing review. Her web connects them all. Yeah. But then just like the hive mind. oh shit. OK, so it's just like Madam Web.
00:44:13
Speaker
Vince has seen Madam Web confirmed. um He's a fan. Yeah. I heard he actually had to pull back on the Madam Web references after the movie got so popular.
00:44:25
Speaker
And then I think Sony like threatened some little game. I mean, he probably has a good relationship with them. And I think because I think they like, you know, made Breaking Bad and stuff. But they were like, come on, Vince, you can't. That's our intellectual property. Like we don't shit where you eat. So don't don't don't go too heavy on it.
00:44:42
Speaker
But in terms of Carol not being able to like really fend for herself, we've seen that in a couple episodes with her having basically an empty fridge. not like Before the world went to shit, she wasn't really doing much in the self-care department, self-preservation department. But...
00:45:02
Speaker
Like, even when it comes to taking out the garbage, she's like, i need assistance with that. It's like, I thought you were independent. Drive into the city and take out your own garbage. What is this? But I don't feel like that's more of a reflection of her dependency. I think it's a reflection of her loneliness. She misses having the people around.
00:45:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think she absolutely does. Like, it's like she doesn't trust the hive mind, but they were still a presence, you know, so like having them completely gone is it's she doesn't like it. I mean, and she is taking it personally a little bit, you know, like this is almost like a breakup episode, you know, of like she she keeps calling and gets this very impersonal voicemail and.
00:45:47
Speaker
She they they send a drone to like do everything, which is like yeah one of the funniest bits in the show so far where they're like, yeah, just leave the garbage bag at the the curb and make sure it's under what they say, 15 pounds.
00:46:01
Speaker
And she doesn't weigh it. She kind of just picks it up and just like, like, Kind of eyeballs. It kind of just like, it like feels it like, yeah, it's probably 15. Right. And then you can see, you see the drone, like really first, it can barely lift it off the ground. And even once it's going, it's like not getting to the height it needs to get to. and it just wraps around a pole.
00:46:23
Speaker
Yeah, the drone bits were some of my favorite in the show. I felt like it had a personality of its ah So in my mind, I imagine the dude from the hospital who said he would give her the atom bomb. I imagine him at like a desk somewhere just trying his ah hardest to operate this thing. It really, the hive comes through. Their personality comes through in that drone, I feel like. They're like, we're going to give it our our best effort. We're going to do our best to satisfy you. Because they probably immediately, realized this is more than 15 pounds, but we do still want to comply with her request. So we're going to take it.
00:47:02
Speaker
That light pole, though, it's like, come on, guys. You couldn't see that light pole there. I saw it from a mile away. You have drones in the sky that... We could have seen that. See, this to me is like more like of the AI poking out of like the we're seeing the limits of like what automation can even accomplish of like, yeah, you can ask it to do stuff, but it's not guarantee that it's going to actually be effective.
00:47:30
Speaker
And part of me was like, you know, is that message indicating that they're going to try a little less? Like, I mean, I figured they probably could have got a better drone there. They probably could have had like a self-driving car. Because that seemed like a a personal drone, like so that someone could buy off of Amazon or something. But it's like you would have they would have access to like military grade shit. Like, you know that they're using the drones in the sky, like watch it. So it's like you don't have something like more heavy duty. Yeah, it felt very low effort on their part. And I wonder if that was intentional or if it was just for the sake of the bit.
00:48:08
Speaker
I think it could be both like it's like funny to see, but then also that they're just going to, you know, put less ah manpower into fulfilling her thing because now it's been established. She's actively trying basically to kill them. So they're like, oh, well, you know, we'll do what you want, ah but also kind of fuck you.
00:48:31
Speaker
You know, I'm trying to think of any parallels I can draw for how a virus operates in real life. Like, is there any like care for the host that a virus has at all? Like, where do you think this idea comes from? I think that's more like a parasite because a parasite has to keep the host. I mean, there are parasites that just straight up kill the host, but most of them will keep the host at a bare like minimum level because it needs like the nutrients like from the host to survive. So it's... Yeah, but in this case, what they need from Carol is just to get her to join unless there's something else to her, you know, like there's something else to like the connection it gets from these specific people other than just assimilating everyone. But like, yeah, that's that's the parallel that I would think of is like kind of like how a parasite drains its host, but still keeps it alive because it's like, OK, I need, you know, the stuff from the body. Yeah, the show makes me want to dive deeper into viruses themselves, do more, ah ah educate myself a little bit more on that. You told me you booked a ticket to this lab in Wuhan and you want to like ah just see what's going on there? No, I did that six years ago.
00:50:03
Speaker
Oh, okay. So when you came back with all those bats, that's what that was about. Yeah, ah exactly. thought I thought that was a Batman thing. Normally, if someone goes abroad, they come back with bats.
00:50:14
Speaker
They're going to fight crime or something. you know Yeah. One thing i think we're not looking at, and maybe we're not looking at, but... In episode one, when they break down that signal and the four things that it was made out of, I kind of want to know a bit more of what's behind that. Look up those things. what i mean, do you know what those four things are, what the significance behind them were? And kind of want to just look up what the hell they are and if they could have any bearing on like why Carol is the way she is or if I'm just looking in the wrong direction.
00:50:52
Speaker
I think there probably is something to that, but I don't, yeah, I don't know enough about like RNA or any of like chemistry, biology to, to really make heads or tails of that. So that's, I mean, if we got any scientists, ah biologists listening, you know, hit us up, let us know. Now you sound like Carol. Yeah.
00:51:18
Speaker
that's why I relate to her. she's know i relate to her, too. When she ah is questioning that guy in episode four and she's questioning about, like, did Helen like my books and all that? I i don't know if I would have asked that. I don't know if I would want. Maybe. I don't know. I feel like it is in me, though. I would kind of want to hear. Yeah, they love your books. Even even if it's like a painful thing, but even if I know that like the answer is probably going to hurt me, I would press almost especially so like because that she kind of has to know at that point when they give the pushback of like, we don't you know, you don't really need to know this, Carol. It's like, oh, so it's a bad answer. I'm like, I really need to know now. I feel like I definitely have that bit in me where I'm like, OK, well, if it's bad news and just fucking tell me.
00:52:08
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, I feel like I've been that way in real life when somebody isn't saying something because they know or they're worried about hurting me. I'm like, I kind of want to hear it more. I'm like, no, if you feel that, then tell me then. I'm a fucking adult. Tell me. Yeah, I can handle this. And Carol kind of has a bit of that. And part of it seems like she can't handle it. It very...
00:52:32
Speaker
hard to hear because it's kind a brutal mean yeah that that's almost the worst part because like that's that can be the most brutal thing i've seen it's i'm thinking of uh i just said that i'd re-watched uh inside leon davis recently like that scene where he goes to the manager 10 out of 10 fantastic movie i watched it twice this year yeah yeah Yeah, ah i don't I need to reevaluate my ranking. I don't know where I'd put it, but it's so hard when so many of their movies are just straight up masterpieces. but I've got it at number two, right below No Country. Both of those movies are ones where...
00:53:11
Speaker
Every time I watch it, I feel like I have a new experience with both of them. Like, it's a new memorable experience whenever I put those two on. Wellen is almost, like, the best Coen protagonist, maybe, to me. Or at least the one that I have. There's, like, an easier in to, like, emotionally... Even though I do connect to the other characters emotionally, I'm not, like, a criminal. So it's, like, a little more abstract of, like, to put myself in those scenarios. Whereas I'm not a musician, but I can... It's easier to imagine myself in his scenario of like, okay, well, the the couch surfing and shit. Like as i've if I had to do that to make ends meet, I guess yeah I would be doing that.
00:53:50
Speaker
Real quick sidebar, not to go too far off the episode. What are your top five Coen's currently? Okay. I can toss out mine real quick. ah No country at number one.
00:54:03
Speaker
Llewyn Davis at number two. Miller's crossing at three. Blood simple at four. Hudsucker proxy at five. Barton Fink and Hudsucker Proxy are like almost tied for five.
00:54:13
Speaker
Those are lot of... I like the earlier era Coens a lot, though. i I like them a lot, too. And like, yeah, those got pretty near the top on my last like run through. Wow. I did a lot more lists between the last time I did. Like find where the list is. can... Do you got Uh, I, I mean, I just know that I had a serious man at number one, ah probably Barton Fink number two. Um,
00:54:48
Speaker
um what was three? Three might have been um Miller's Crossing. I ranked very high. um let me see. I think I can pull up your Cohen list if you have it on Letterboxd.
00:55:05
Speaker
Yeah. I got it. Okay. Are you cool if I read it off? Yeah, you can read it. Okay. Doug's top five Coens. You got at number one, and I don't know how up to date this is. is probably like a few years old. Yeah, because Llewyn Davis is 13 out of 15. Yeah, that'd be higher now.
00:55:24
Speaker
Yeah. ah But your number one was a serious man. Two was Barton Fink. Three was no country. Four was Hudsucker. Five was blood simple. Oh, so where did I have Miller's Crossing? Six.
00:55:38
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Those, yeah, I mean, they're they're pretty close, but... you hate Lewin Davis? What? Just beating Buster Scruggs? You had, like, true grit at the bottom, I think. and in which yeah i know it's well it's hard because i literally love all those movies including i just re-watched buster scruggs i'm like this is a fucking banger so i've got to watch that for the first time oh man i meant zuccas and paul sheer are on the blank check episode so i'm like i gotta fucking prioritize buster scruggs i still haven't finished hail caesar god damn it
00:56:14
Speaker
Hail Caesar's also a banger. Like, there are really no... I mean, Lady Killers is the the closest to, like, a one where I'm like, this just doesn't work. But I want to revisit it because there's probably... so I'll probably be, like, closer to the Griffin where I'm like, yeah, there's... I don't know. Like, even, like, the worst Coen Brothers movie still has... i mean, with that cast, like, there can't be nothing, you know, where it's like...
00:56:36
Speaker
I don't know, J.K. Simmons and Tom Hanks. Like, come on, got to be something going on there. But to the Llewyn Davis point, when he has that, when he performs for Bud Grossman, this manager they've been hyping up, and after he puts his heart in salt, like, he plays the fuck out of this performance, and then Bud Grossman's simply just like, I don't see a lot of money there. Like, to me, that's almost at the same level of, like, devastation that Carol gets from hearing that, uh,
00:57:04
Speaker
you know, that her girlfriend thought that her, her, you know, passion project, this huge novel that she'd been, you know, encouraging her to write was just kind of like meh. Cause it's like, it's not, she's not saying it's bad, you know, like, but, but gross was not saying that Llewyn is talentless. Like in fact, he probably enjoyed hearing that performance, but he just kind of just like, yeah, it does. It just doesn't have that like,
00:57:27
Speaker
that it factor, you know, like that it's not. and And as he goes into more detail, it's like, it's like, yeah, you're not like connecting with people on like a personal level. Yeah. And he doesn't have like the charm of, let's say, a Justin Timberlake or something. Or even that soldier that he was making fun of earlier where it's like that guy, when but he brings up that guy to Bud, he's like, oh, that's a good kid. He's a good kid. yeah He really connects with the people, you know, it's like,
00:57:54
Speaker
you know what Leland looks down on like all these people that he kind of thinks are like kind of phonies or whatever but it's like well I don't know people reson they resonate with people i don't know who I'd say has a a bit rougher Lewin or Carol because Carol is getting criticism for the opposite Carol is going more like populist entertainment or popcorn and I mean, Helen, in her own thoughts, she said that they were cotton candy, whereas, like, Llewyn Davis isn't doing the mainstream. He's kind of just doing – he's this weird, moody act. Violently so. Like, he's like, I will not – like, he thinks anyone who does anything a little bit, like, pop is, like, a sellout, you know? Like –
00:58:41
Speaker
But then Carol's passion project that isn't the populist thing that she wants to do for herself is harmless is the word that gets used. That's where the knife feels like it's really being twisted and where I feel like she's got it the criticism digs deeper than I feel like the criticism at Lewin, because that's like, okay, both ends of her work are getting like, not necessarily fully criticized, but it's almost like, yeah, that's cute. I don't know if patronizing is the right word or not condescending, but that's a good word because i mean, Helen clearly loves Carol and, ah but that almost makes hearing that like sting more because ah it's
00:59:27
Speaker
Hearing it's harmless. It's like I'd almost rather hear that you hate or were offended by it. You know, like i'm I'm really drawn to movies or just art in general. It's divisive when people are like, this thing was fucking gross. I hated it. You know, like when people told me would talk about the Rob Zombie Halloween's that way, like that they're like offensive to the lore whatever. i'm like, well, now I really want to see them. That sounds good. Yeah. Halloween 2. Yeah. Masterpiece? Question mark? Yeah. rob Rob Zombie's Fire Walk with me? I love it. yeah
00:59:58
Speaker
It's even in the Bible. like God thinks that way. He says something about like don't be lukewarm. If you're lukewarm, I will spit you out of your my mouth. Be hot or cold. So it's like basically like yeah meeting down the middle is almost more insulting than having a negative thought or feeling about something. Just being indifferent. It's just like, a yeah it's just in inoffensive it's like no i want to be offensive please tell me like you were offended by it yeah does the art really matter if it's inoffensive it's just it's marvel it's a theme park well that's exactly and that's the thing she's trying not to do the marvel thing and then it's she told that it's it's inoffensive or harmless where it's like well that's the opposite of what she i wanted you know yeah yeah She it seems like someone who would like to provoke in a way, and that isn't really happening. it
01:00:54
Speaker
yeah the that I saw myself with in Carol in a lot of that moment, though, where I was just like, that would hurt me deeply, I think, hearing the latter.
01:01:07
Speaker
it's it's especially rough for her because there's no, she can only follow up on hearing this through this the distorted like thing that has her memory. Like you say she can't actually sit down with Helen and be like, can you talk me through specifically like ah what made you feel this way about these things? And, a oh, and she didn't even finish it. she She like made it like a hundred pages in and then read the ending. She was like, I like, the ending or something. It ended well or something. Yeah. Carol's like, well, did she make it to page 200 something? She's like, yeah, she only made it like a hundred pages and it ah is she couldn't even finish it. That sucks to hear.
01:01:51
Speaker
um But yeah, I, I mean, do you think any of that emotion ah carries over into episode five? Do you think that um informs her loneliness? Absolutely, because she's she's dealing with that, but then her new relationship is having a fallout ah too, because it's not like she chose to be in this this weird dynamic with the collective, but now that they've like abandoned her it's like she's like she is alone. It's just her and the wolves. And like we alluded to earlier, like that yeah, I like that we're seeing like the fallout of... like Yes, like every human ever has been taken over as a part of the thing. But the animals are still out. Like we heard about the animals being let loose from the zoo earlier. I mean, these wolves aren't from the zoo, but like the fact that the animals are just kind of like just running rampant, like in the hive isn't going to stop. They don't kill animals. So like but those are wolves, right? I've heard people call them coyotes. But when I first saw them, I'm like, that's a wolf. And then when I heard other podcasts say the word coyote, I was like, oh, maybe I'm dumb. But those are wolves, right? I thought wolves... Wikipedia says wolves, but Wikipedia could be wrong. I mean, coyotes... i i've I've, like, seen a coyote, but, like, if you're asking... Let ask ChatGBT.
01:03:13
Speaker
I'm kidding. Like, like what's the... Yeah, I'm looking at a picture coyote now. i i think they were wolves. Yeah, or, I mean, very well-fed coyotes. I've seen coyotes in real life from living in Arizona, like up close. They're pretty big, but they're really like skinny and mangy. And typically, like from my experience, they will run if they see a person. They're not going to get too confrontational, which made me think like, yeah, these are wolves.
01:03:43
Speaker
Well, and the fact that they're their're wolves and they're good chance that maybe they're hungry. You know, like they probably maybe scavenged some garbage through the neighborhood, but there might not even be that much available garbage if, as we see later, there's not much being thrown away by other people that aren't Carol. So they they could be pretty hungry and there's a pack of them. So the fact that, you know, they're not just going to be scared off by a lady with ah a golf club. Someone coming after him in a in a cruiser, yeah, that would that would that would get him away. and yeah, I love the next morning when she just realized like, oh yeah, you just hit the button and it unlocks the thing.
01:04:24
Speaker
I like that too. And then we do get a good moment of ah Carol going and... building like a headstone and a like stone to cover Helen's body. I really liked that moment. So yeah, I guess there is a bit more carryover from the last episode than I, than I fully realized, but um yeah, I love anytime this movie stops to, or not this movie, the show stops to give a little bit more insight into this relationship that they have.
01:04:58
Speaker
Yeah, because ah Helen was her like like, we don't really, she wasn't that close to her family, which makes sense in the context now, knowing that, you know, they tried to send her to fucking conversion therapy. So, like, that that Helen was someone who loved and accepted her for who she was. And now she's gone. the the She lost the person that accepted her for who she was. And now what remains is an entity that wants to change who she is.
01:05:26
Speaker
You know, like it's such an interesting dynamic. I hadn't really thought about it much that way, but that's that's a good way of putting it. I mean, i just, I know there's still a bit more to get into in episode five, but, and we said this up top, but I...
01:05:43
Speaker
I'm loving coming back to the show every single week. It's been such a delight to have this thing. um But ah when when exactly in the episode does Carol start to come on to the food situation? I'm kind of spacing on that a little bit. I think it's when... Oh, the garbage. They fail to take her garbage. And then so she goes into town is just like stuffing it into like, you know, one of those those bins that you might see in a public place, but that that have the covered protection thing. And she can't like... She's trying to throw away like some bowl or something. and She can't get it to throw away. So she opens up the like recycling. And then she sees inside the recycling that there's just these like...
01:06:30
Speaker
generic milk carton. Like they just say milk on them. They don't, it doesn't even look like real logos or anything. And, and it's kind of like grade school milk almost, but like they made it themselves. And we do, the episode does actually open with somebody drinking a carton of milk. And it actually, I,
01:06:51
Speaker
I don't know if this actor is even still with us anymore. For some reason, I feel like he passed away. But it looked like the silhouette of Tuco's uncle or whatever from Breaking Bad. The opening shot of the guy drinking the milk.
01:07:04
Speaker
It does kind of look like... It's hard to tell because it's not like we don't get a full view of of him. I could be wrong. I thought I read that that actor passed away. Now, I'm not trying to they'd create fake deaths and make a Mandela effect for everybody. so ah Mark Magoulas is Hector, and he died in 2023. Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah, so pretty recent. Yeah, so I doubt it was him, but his silhouette, I was like, I'm getting real Hector vibes. It would be nice to see him pop up in the show if he were still alive and kicking. Shout out to Hector.
01:07:41
Speaker
Thanks to AI, now we can. Oh, yeah, what if that was AI? They pulled a Carrie Fisher. You know, I think i even if Vince won't admit that ah the show is intentionally anti-AI, he said so much stuff against it that, yeah, i feel like he would rather die than just do that shit. And it he would rather just have, you know...
01:08:05
Speaker
There's not even digital de-aging in the Better Call Saul takes place like it like a few years before Breaking Bad, but then also 10 years before. like It like flashes back even further at points and they're like, you're going to digitally de-age Bob Odenkirk? No, we're just going put a wig on him.
01:08:24
Speaker
It was like, does it look a little goofy when he's supposed to be like younger? Like maybe, but it's also the performances are so good that I don't give a shit. So it's like, I prefer that than like, uh, you know, the stuff that like looks distracting, like, like fucking the Irish. And I think the Irish man is a great movie, but like the, those effects look like shit. Right.
01:08:45
Speaker
I buy that Saul Goodman looked like he was 50 the moment he turned 18. I kind just buy that. You're like, that just this guy's had a hard life. He's looked like this forever. That's the Saul Goodman I know. He's like 50 forever.
01:09:02
Speaker
It's almost like you could cut to flashbacks in Better Call Saul of like Saul as a kid. and do it George Lopez style where it's just Bob Odenkirk's head yeah the kid body i think and it would make sense to me I would buy it it wouldn't it would feel right to me it would yeah it would make more it it would attract to me it that does it doesn't take me out of it i mean maybe it slightly takes me out of it that Mike's granddaughter seems to be immortal because no matter what time period they go to she's like the same age but I'm like whatever it doesn't matter maybe his granddaughter daughter is immortal that's why he's so protective of her she's one of the eternals right yeah or she's a vampire i don't know if i've seen her in daylight i think she'd go he takes her to the park during the day but she could be a twilight vampire she could be a day walker don't yeah or i mean daybreakers they they figure out ways to kind of get around in the daylight maybe it's a daybreaker situation she's just got enough like clothing on to cover her up or something
01:10:03
Speaker
that's That's what it is. Confirmed. Mike's granddaughter, vampire. Yeah. So where do they go from here? She finds the milk.
01:10:14
Speaker
i I mean, milk I find inherently gross. And...
01:10:20
Speaker
Whenever I see an adult drinking milk like in a movie or something, i'm like, oh, that's shorthand for their sociopath. Maybe that's just like Clockwork Orange. Chigurh drinks milk in No Country for Old Men. He drink he drinks milk, Clockwork Orange, ah the girlfriend in Get Out.
01:10:36
Speaker
ah Or no, she does the thing where her milk and her... She does a weird thing with her cereal, right? Where it's like she puts oh yeah them in like a weird order or something. There's there's some weird thing she does with with the milk when she eats her cereal. I wouldn't be surprised if she kept them in separate bowls and like took a bite of the cereal then drank the milk. I almost feel like it was. like It's been a while since I've seen Get Out, but I just remember being struck by it.
01:11:02
Speaker
It's like I feel like they already revealed she was bad at that point, but that's like the confirmation. were Like, oh, she's fucking crazy. Yeah. I rewatched Get Out earlier this year. That's why, man, these details from these movies just like leave my mind as time passes. That's why rewatches are so valuable. Sometimes it's almost like I've never even seen the movie before. Like I just watched Wreck 2 the other day and I'm like, no, I watched this on Crackle a long time ago, but it feels it's playing like a new thing to me. Yeah, I've seen people be like, oh, I can never rewatch some something. And I'm like, why? Like, it's like, yeah one, you it helps you recall those those details. But then also it's just like you can get a different emotional experience out of it each time. Like, yeah, it hits different.
01:11:46
Speaker
But then there on the opposite end of things, there are people who are like, I only rewatch the same things over and over. And I'm just like, I can't do that. I would wear i get a little frustrated when like my dad's watching The Godfather for like the a hot thousandth time. i'm like, is yes, this movie is a masterpiece. But hey, would you like to see like a new mob movie? There's like other good ones they made. Like i i I can show you one right now. I like the idea of that more than somebody just watching The Office, and that's the only thing they ever watch is The Office.
01:12:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's silly. i don't i'm trying i haven't really done that with anything like a movie or anything since I was a kid. But I remember like when I was a real little kid, I had an awful nightmare that kept me awake for weeks. And I would watch Jingle All the Way every single night and fall asleep to that movie. Masterpiece 10 out of 10. Holiday classic. We still need to cover it. We owe the listeners a Jingle All the Way commentary. Oh, we should do it.
01:12:59
Speaker
ah We should. and We actually should. December's coming up. We should, and we should get Sinbad on it. He's not doing anything. oh man. I had a funny moment with Sinbad in that movie that I'll have to tell you off mic because my girlfriend would be upset if I said it on mic.
01:13:18
Speaker
It's a funny story. Um... Yeah, jingle all the way, we'll put it. We have to do it. I feel like it's important cinema. It's turbo time.
01:13:29
Speaker
Exactly. That's better than I'll Be Back. That's more in the zeitgeist, or at least it should be. i agree. Better line than Get to the Chopper. Better movie than Predator, actually, I'll say.
01:13:40
Speaker
It takes a shit all over. What are some other iconic Arnold performances? It it it shits all over all of them. ah Maggie, i think that's a performance everybody loves and knows about. i think that's a zombie movie.
01:13:55
Speaker
I've never seen it, but people will always like point to, like, no, he's like actually good in it. and like And they say it in a way like they did never that he's never given a good performance before. like, he's been good at other stuff. He's better than The Rock in everything The Rock has done, except for maybe The Smashing Machine. And I feel like I'm an outlier for get thinking The Smashing Machine is like a Gentleman's Six. I need to see it still. Like, even if I don't like the movie, I'm probably going to still enjoy the performance because I'm like, well, I want him doing shit like that ah more than the Moana remake where I'm like, that's fucking pointless. Like why? Moana 2? Dude, I caught a little bit of Moana 2 the other day. That movie sucks. The animation is bad. The music is bad. It's just a step down from Moana in every level. And I felt like The Rock was all over that thing.
01:14:53
Speaker
I could be wrong. Maybe he's barely in it. It felt like he was all over that No, but creatively he could be all over because he kind of does just like take control of things in a way that I feel like is detrimental to the projects. where It's like, dude, if Black Adam wasn't the we have to make...
01:15:11
Speaker
the rock look like the coolest guy and everyone loves him movie maybe it could have been something because like the idea of that they just had him fight shazam like they talked about for years it probably would have looked better if he was if he was a villain in the movie like black adam is a i'm not even one of those like oh the thing needs to be comic actor accurate but the appeal of the character is that he is villainous he is a villain And in the movie, he he says, like, I'm not a hero or whatever. Heroes don't heroes don't kill. I'm not here. But he only says that. And then he does heroic shit. He only ever does heroic shit.
01:15:49
Speaker
Yeah, that movie is terrible. um But it changed the hierarchy of the DCU forever. It literally did. So I guess thank you. The rock was right. The rock reminds me of the hive mind in a couple of ways.
01:16:05
Speaker
Because he doesn't smile. He has that smile. He doesn't want to like offend anybody. know, like he wants everyone to like be happy. um and then also like the hive mind, maybe phoning it in a little bit now.
01:16:17
Speaker
i agree. Yeah, with the phoning and and part. I'm just so it dispassionate. I don't know. The Rock's a whole other guy. Listen to our Red One episode. We have a lot of good talk on The Rock in that one, if I remember correctly. forgot that movie existed. When are we getting Red Two?
01:16:34
Speaker
Oh, Red Three? They just get Don't even get me started. Yeah. Oh. so so So she's investigating the milk and she finds that there's like this, this, this like liquid.
01:16:50
Speaker
She, she finds like the bottling plant and where, where they're like making the milk and she finds a bag of like this, like powdery substance. And it's like, Oh, they're mixing water with this. And like, this is what they drink. She like in one of her videos says,
01:17:08
Speaker
It's kind of like like oil in terms of its consistency. oh and she says it's the pH of it is neutral. So I don't know if that's going to be important.
01:17:19
Speaker
um Because it all feels important. Yeah. that Juice looks more appetizing than milk, I will say. Yeah, it looks a little bit like apple juice a little bit or something. What do you think it is?
01:17:33
Speaker
You think it's just sustaining the virus that's in them? Like if they cut off the supply, then they won't, then they'll start to go back to normal? You think it's kind of like some type of...
01:17:45
Speaker
life supply as basic as that it could be because there well you never get confirmation that like that saliva how long is that sustain you for like is that does it just self-replicate inside the body indefinitely or do you have to re-up on it you know like is it because our or is this changing them in some way is it changing their physiology? know, it's like supplementing what they already have.
Speculative Ideas & Biological Themes in 'Pluribus'
01:18:13
Speaker
Like if the saliva is like the starting point for connecting it and then you drink more and more of this milk, like that change we noted where it seems like
01:18:23
Speaker
Everyone's become less personal of like the saying like this individual was like is the milk part of that where it's like kind of it's just like overriding any previous human software that you had in in your body or something that it's just it's it's just it's it's it's permanently changing you in a way that the virus maybe wouldn't on its own because. of if it If it works anything like, you know, like I'm not a biologist, but normal viruses, even if you don't have like a cure or some kind of antibodies that are, you know, externally introduced into it, a healthy body produces antibodies that try to push the thing out. So like maybe they have to drink something to override that because like a human body over enough time would –
01:19:12
Speaker
you would think tried to reject whatever this new foreign thing in it is of like, oh, let's fucking pee that out of you, you know? like Because, like, they're still human bodies, so they still they are going to, like, you know, create waste, ah ah supposedly. We haven't seen them poop or pee, so that's also another mystery. she thought That's what's in the box. She opens it. It's just a bunch of shit. Yeah, so they are pooping. Yeah, I...
01:19:41
Speaker
I've heard people speculate that the reveal at the end is going to be frozen bodies, and we're going to find out that they're using the remains of people. we've We've seen them collect the bodies. That's something that like that they are...
01:19:58
Speaker
putting that towards something and if all their thing is like about efficiency so like there is if you know like remove the human emotional element like something cold and calculating would be like oh if we break a body down into its nutrients it can sustain other like you know like something like green fucking style i mean in that world that happens because of scarcity but this could just be like yeah we can like with the least amount of effort or harvesting other resources, we just fucking use all these dead bodies we got and make something out of it. So I could see that I've seen the argument against it being bodies that like, would that, I mean, for me, I would always be shocked to discover any kind of dead body anywhere, but maybe for Carol at this point, that wouldn't be the most shocking thing. She already knows like billions of people have died or whatever. So like, Would seeing a body here be the most like elicit that?
01:20:57
Speaker
response from her like that face i don't know yeah i and as an audience member would that even be the most shocking thing to see like we we have to wait like a whole week and a half for this they dropped this episode early so we have to wait even longer to see what this cliffhanger it it is going to be if it's just a frozen body i mean we've seen that in so many other things Yeah. along Alongside a frozen Danny Glover and Arnold from the the Predator movies. So like there this actually ties into the Trachtenberg Predator universe.
01:21:36
Speaker
And Ripley's there frozen cryosleep too somehow. She's like, finally a crossover with Ripley. Mm-hmm. but i I feel like this show is, like, a goal it seems to have is showing us things we haven't seen
Narrative Twists & Predictions
01:21:56
Speaker
before. Like, at least from, like, the quote-unquote alien invasion thing, where it's completely different. It's constantly subverting expectations, and not even in grand ways, but just small, thoughtful ways. And...
01:22:12
Speaker
I just have a feeling it's, it's gotta be more, it's gotta be something that's going to subvert our expectations again. And I mean, if it's not, maybe I'll be a little disappointed, but I guess it just depends on what the show does with it. If it is dead bodies.
01:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, i I think you're right. Like, yeah, it ultimately boils down to what it does with it. But I just have a feeling that there's more to this and that, like you said, that they're put so much care and effort into like subverting these tropes that we know and being more clever that like just a body would probably be a little deflating.
01:22:48
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. i I'm kind of expecting more. And maybe, I don't know if that's wrong for me. i ah a bit of it is just my familiarity with the creatives behind it. But I'm expecting more. And I'm i'm hoping that they deliver. Because i feel like every episode so far has delivered something. I mean, I haven't...
01:23:12
Speaker
had a bad moment watching any of these things. Every episode has one thing one cool concept, a cool idea, a cool shot, and ah like a deeply emotional moment that resonates with me or a character moment that I just love that I get to sit with and think about in relation to like what's going on in the story. Every episode has had something to offer.
01:23:39
Speaker
And now they finally set up like, okay, we're going to pay something. There's going to be some kind of payoff after five episodes. I'm just hoping that, um...
01:23:51
Speaker
It isn't something that disappoints or seems like kind of obvious that it that it's as, ah you know, unique and ah subversive as like the rest of of the the the series. The next episode is called HDP, which that could stand for so many things. i don't know. High definition pluribus. Yeah.
01:24:14
Speaker
Oh, okay. So it's a show we're watching. Cool. Just in HD. They've downgraded the quality for this episode. That's funny. Yeah. No longer 4K. It says Carol shares a horrific discovery and learns new truth in the process.
01:24:30
Speaker
ah Mr. Diabete or however you say the the like the horny French guy. ah ah so say he lives life to the fullest in Sin City. So we're going check in on him. But to to me, knowing I mean, i guess not knowing the show, we were only a few episodes in, but knowing Vince and company, the fact that if we're looping back around to him,
01:24:56
Speaker
Like I suspected he was going to have some further significance. And I feel like this confirms it. Like it this it won't just be a fun diversion of like, oh, wouldn't it be fun if some horny guy got to do whatever he wanted in in in Las Vegas? It's like, no, there's going to be if even if it doesn't immediately obviously tie back into the main plot, there's going to be some kind of information we learn from here or maybe a point in his arc where he starts to realize that Carol is right. You know, like this could be the start of her gaining an immediate ally. i think the guy in Paraguay will eventually connect with her, but that might not even happen this season. So like, if you want to have the the seeds of like someone a little more immediately who like starts to come to her side, I could see it being this guy. So maybe we get some of that next episode.
01:25:48
Speaker
Yeah, or maybe it's the girl who seems to be pretty annoying. What's her name again? The one with the creepy kid? Laksmi. Who calls it the beginning of of this episode? She's like, you made my son cry. Because apparently everyone was crying when you know like when they were begging her to stop. Like, please, Carol. Which is that All this should... They felt really threatened.
01:26:12
Speaker
All this should make you agree with Carol that that's not your son. who Like, why why, why, is that normal or acceptable that your son's feeling emotions that so is and are are things that aren't even happening to him? Like that's, you shouldn't be be cool with that.
01:26:29
Speaker
This doesn't seem like the type of show where characters are just going to be like, oh, I was putting on a show this whole time and I really feel this way. But part of me was like, what if Lakshmi is just playing a really good game of three d chess and she's just really trying to sell to this hive mind that she's bought onto their whole concept, but she's going to be one of our greatest allies as the show goes on.
01:26:53
Speaker
I don't know. i But then I think about was Breaking Bad really that kind of show? Enemies weren't really turned into allies. People just kept getting taken off the table. Right.
01:27:05
Speaker
I think it's either going to be could be like we theorized before where she doubles down on being anti Carol and wanting to preserve this kind of fake facade of of a home life um in like maybe violently enforcing that.
01:27:22
Speaker
yeah she might turn out to be our greatest enemy in the show by the end of it Because if they can't directly do anything, they might just, like, ass locks. Like, is that a workaround where they can be like, hey, locks me. Here's a gun.
01:27:37
Speaker
We'll fly you there. Go shoot Carol in the face. Or how much can the hive suggest things as opposed to actually straight up? Oh, you can make your son stop crying. I'll stop crying if only you could just stop Carol. like It just like yeah manipulates her or something.
01:27:56
Speaker
I could see something like that happening more so. But... Yeah, I'm fully like in for the show, and I can't wait. It sucks that we have a longer wait time for episode six, but I get it with fucking Thanksgiving, which hope you guys had a good Thanksgiving too.
01:28:14
Speaker
But yeah, i'm I'm really excited to get the show going and see. I feel like we are going to get a shift. ah we're like I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future we leave Albuquerque. I wouldn't be surprised if not only that, but if at the maybe end of this season or another season, since we've introduced like this, this timer concept that we jump ahead years, like, and maybe even not as like we're staying ahead in the future, but as a way of teasing out stuff of how Breaking Bad would do flash forward of like, oh what the fuck is this how are we gonna get to this point like we jump we jump like decades ahead and you see some crazy shit and then we go back to the president and we're like what the fuck how do so how do we get to that point
01:29:03
Speaker
Yeah, like season two begins with like day 200 something. And then later we cut back to like day 30. And it's like, oh, we're at some point something's going to happen less than a year from now, like several months from now. Yeah. Yeah.
01:29:20
Speaker
So it'll be interesting to see if they do that. And if so, what are they teeing up? Because yeah, like this could be a story that spans decades. If not, so we, I mean, we still don't know the full scope of this thing. And like Carol is our main POV, but that doesn't mean that, you know, you we could open up on an episode. That's like, yeah,
01:29:47
Speaker
Hundreds of years in the past and we just spend an episode seeing the past civilization that transmitted this thing or something, you know, like it could It could go in either direction And I could even see maybe this show just lasts like a year in the time of these characters or something like This is a threat they have to deal with immediately. i don't know I There's definitely something more. I feel like they're going to have more creative ways to incorporate this timer that we're seeing. But um yeah, you got any final thoughts on ah these two episodes of Pluribus or where the show might go?
01:30:26
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i guess those were already, like, my theories on on where it can go because it's it's kind of hard to even get... Like, I still don't even know just on an immediate level of like, the mysteries of, like, what's under that...
01:30:42
Speaker
tarp like like i said i hope it's not just a body but i don't have a like thing to present of like it's probably this like that's what's kind of uh so thrilling about this show is that it feels like any like the the sky's the limit it's like it it could fucking be anything Yeah, I find myself as each episode goes on speculating less and just accepting everything as it's given to me. um Just because with my speculation, I feel like I'm so far off from what's actually going to happen. And I kind of like that.
01:31:18
Speaker
Not kind of. I really like that about the show. But yeah, at a certain point, I'm just like, you know, the speculation is causing me too much energy. I'm just kind of living in the
Audience Engagement & Future Content
01:31:28
Speaker
excitement. It's fun to do. And a yeah, I'll occasionally like browse the subreddit and to be like, hey, where do other people think it's going? But I don't think us or of anyone like on the Reddit or even like ah on to any, I mean, I think there could be something to, you know, what I said earlier about it it being fully one entity and in these all being appendages of it. Like that we get some further
01:31:57
Speaker
iteration on that like kind of confirming that like that these are not individual consciousnesses joined really that this is like an erasure fully and but but then what are the implications of that like can you even undo that then like are these people fully just like is this a story about the end of the human race you know i thought about that if at the very end of it they don't undo all of this i you know Without spoiling the leftovers, it kind of reminds me of the leftovers a little bit. I i think I would be okay with a bit more of a melancholy ending from this show.
01:32:36
Speaker
Yeah, well because even a if there is a solution, i trust that it'll feel earned and they'll done the work to make us believe that it could be there. But it just it just feels it just feels more natural that there wouldn't be. you know like ah We've made the comparisons to...
01:32:55
Speaker
Invasion of the Body Snatchers and other stuff where it's like at no point in that movie, and specifically the 70s one, do I feel like that this is something they can solve. It's just like a matter of like, yes, stay alive and stay human for as long as you can. But it's like you're not beating them.
01:33:13
Speaker
And at the end of the day, the most important thing is where does Carol land in all of this? I know like humanity and what happens with them is like a really interesting part of the show. But it whether the show is successful or not or ah whether the show is successful or not will really be determined by where Carol lands and how we feel about that.
01:33:36
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. This is, ah which is smart to make it, the stakes be so personal, even though the scale is massive, because it's it's just, that's just a harder thing to do, a resolution on that scale. Like you cited leftovers, ah and I think that's ah a good pull because that is like this concept where this crazy thing has happened on a global scale. But by the end of the show, not to spoil the leftovers, but like it doesn't, The answers in closure are personal. It's like for these characters, what does, what does all this mean? Like, it's not trying to like give you the, the answer to everything. And I think that's better.
01:34:21
Speaker
Hell yeah. I agree on that note. You got any plugs or anything for the people? No, fuck the people. No, i yeah, I mean, check out that this feed, got more stuff coming, more leftovers coverage. ah And um check out ah our ah Twitch, ah the JuiceTube, trying to plan some more streams on there later. And then also i've been ah appearing on my friend's Facebook
01:34:55
Speaker
YouTube streams ah on unsourced wall radio. Initially, I thought that we were going to be doing the scream movies. I think that's coming, but later. But apparently ah he wants to do ah ah the alien movies first. So ah actually like that franchise better. So like i was like, oh, OK, cool. I'll do a So look out for that starting in the next couple of weeks. But those those are ah on on Sunday, Sunday afternoon. yeah.
01:35:23
Speaker
um Yeah. And you can follow me on Twitter at the Doug files. So, you know, I'll be posting, you know, and promoting all all that stuff. You can ah find out when that is on there.
01:35:35
Speaker
You can follow me on Letterboxd at Nicholas Ewers. um You can go check out my other podcast, Morbid Curiosities. We cover horror movies. Right now we're in the middle of the Wreck movies. Our Wreck 2 episode will probably be out. Yeah, I really enjoyed Wreck 2. If you want to hear some praise for Wreck 2, go check out...
01:35:56
Speaker
that episode. I loved it. My co-hosts absolutely hated it. So you might get some fun out of that episode. So I'm going to get angry listening to that one. Cause wreck fucking rules. Yeah. REC 2 is awesome. I can't recommend it enough. It's free on to be shout out to all of them are. Yeah. Yeah, I got to still watch the other ones. I heard three is pretty fun. And there's four total, right? Four. Yeah, they seem like they just get more batshit insane once you hit three. Good. I'm stoked about that. And while plugging movies, check out The Ballad of Wallace Island. Awesome movie. Doug and I were doing some talk about that before we started recording. Streaming on Amazon, yeah.
01:36:43
Speaker
Hell yeah, go check it out. Incredible. I loved it. Especially if you're a fan of Inside Llewyn Davis, like we were talking about. It's not one for one the same, but I feel like if you're a fan of that, you can vibe with this movie, definitely. Yeah, like somber folk music story, you know, like it's it's all there.
01:37:02
Speaker
yeah hell yeah i was nicky yours i was doug davenport and we were these guys guys got juice perfect see you guys next week bye