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MURDER - Right Place, Wrong People (The Lillelid Family)
121 Plays1 year ago
In 1997 the Lillelid family was headed back from a retreat making a stop to picnic in Green County Tennessee. This is the spot where they ran into 6 Kentucky teenagers trying to escape their troubled family life and the day turned deadly.
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Transcript
Podcast Material Concerns and Body Farm Banter
00:00:08
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to another episode of Twisted Tales with Faith and Lisa. And we're glad you're here. So glad. So, so glad.
00:00:19
Speaker
We're running low on material. You know, I don't I always just kind of wait for you to, I don't know, come up with something clever. Sometimes I got it. Yeah, I'm barely hanging on. I know. Although do you know what? What? I did find out now. I didn't know about it. You know, my assistant that I love. Is she quitting? No, no, no. Would I be happy? No. I've already said she leaves them gone.
Tennessee Body Farm and True Crime Research
00:00:42
Speaker
Um, so she, she's from Alaska, right? Okay. Do you know what job she got when she first came here at the fricking body farm? Yeah. She was talking about jealous. Cause she was saying something about like, uh, the producer I worked for was giving her a hard time. And she was like, I would legitimately rather be in the body farm cleaning the skulls right now. And I was like, what did you say? Yeah. She worked in the fricking body farm. And I was like, okay. So like for our guests that don't know.
00:01:12
Speaker
The body farm in Tennessee, it's at UT, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, it's like world renowned, I guess. No. Yes, I like forever ago. Yeah, they like almost every true crime podcast I've ever listened to brings it up at some point just because I forget the doctor's name first or one of the first. I think it was the first of its kind. It's basically it's a huge plot of land and they've got I mean, people like literally donate their bodies. Yes. And they put they put cadavers.
00:01:42
Speaker
out there like under piles of leaves or in dumpsters or in just to see the to watch real time the way a body like this so so prime can and he's written a ton of books i forget the doctor's name that started it and does it i want to say james baker but that was the embezzler so not the same not not that
00:02:02
Speaker
Stewart and I talk about James Baker a lot. Yeah, sometimes names just pop in your head. But I forget the doctor. You can literally Google Tennessee Body Farm. But there are a lot of I'm just going to say, though, if you had said that with confidence, I'd have been like, oh, yeah, yeah, that guy.
Personal Challenges and Life Updates
00:02:14
Speaker
Yeah. But I said you did not say it with confidence. So all five of our listeners, one of the five would know that was not the correct name. We have like 10 now at least. I know. Yeah. One of those 10. Somebody somebody likes us. Somebody likes us.
00:02:30
Speaker
So I did find that out today and then I forgot about it and now I remember again. That's cool. So where are we with the things that we were talking about doing that we've been talking about doing for like a minute now. I totally just put faith on the spot. Yeah. And I can see it in her eyes. She's super happy about it. Here's the deal.
00:02:50
Speaker
As, as for all 10 of our listeners, I feel like at least now 10 are going to agree. Life is hectic and gets out of control. And, you know, between, I got a promotion at works and I've got people I have to manage and have to have, you know, adult conversations with which I don't care for.
00:03:09
Speaker
I don't I'm a people pleaser and I need people to like me. So telling somebody like, you know, hey, let's do it this way. I feel like they stop sucking. I mean, that's how I feel. That's what I feel like. I feel like I'm like, hey, you're you're an idiot and I hate you. And it's really hard for me. So I got that. I got a first grader who's a little bit behind and, you know, partially deaf. So we got lots of doctor appointments. She's not partially deaf. We have some hearing issues going
Listener Sensibilities and "Sandy Exit" Humor
00:03:31
Speaker
on. We're trying to figure out. And I just, you know, I'm trying to stay just barely afloat in life right now is what I'm doing.
00:03:38
Speaker
I, my mom turned 60 this weekend, weekend, happy birthday mom. But we had a big surprise party for her, which I got, you know, to do by yourself. My dad's secretary did, did a lion's share. That's good. But I still had a lot of things. Shout out to the lady that we're not going to name on the podcast. We are not going to name on the podcast.
00:03:57
Speaker
And just in case I've got a friend, so OK, look, I found I found some things to banter about. Wait a minute. You're welcome. So you have a friend. I know it's not you. What? I didn't know it either. Oh, shocker. I've got this friend to love her to death and she.
00:04:15
Speaker
tries to tell me she tries to listen to this podcast. She likes to hang out with us, Lisa and myself. It's a mutual friend. Yep. But she said we talk about such horrible stuff. She just can't make it through an episode. But sometimes she listens to the intro. So Sandy, if you're listening, we love you. We love you. Even though you're about to turn it off. Well, I'll give you I'll give you the right moment without Sandy exit. It's time for you to go.
Victim-Blaming and Responsibility Discussion
00:04:40
Speaker
All right, so it is my turn tonight by my she means Lisa. Yes, mine, because I'm the only one on this podcast that sounds like I do. I don't feel like I need to explain my voice at this point. I have a really hard time listening to myself talks. I feel like I sound like a big dumb idiot.
00:04:56
Speaker
Oh, dude, absolutely. Just my voice, not our mispronunciation and miss miss quoting things. Just, you know, like hummus is a loop. Right. Just pure my voice. I hate it. So I try like I will I will try to listen for if I actually I look at the little little up and down the graphic thing when I'm editing. Well, no, I don't. I stop. I stop recording voicemail messages for myself.
00:05:20
Speaker
OK, because like when I listen to it, I've got two voices. It's either Morgan Freeman or Valley Girl. Yeah. And there's nowhere in between. I think that's everybody. Hey, guys, this is Lisa. Leave me a message or. Hey, guys, like there is no in between. Everyone has that for life. It is always yes.
00:05:42
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I'm doing a really good job of keeping everything off track. All right. Well, Sandy, you have a good night. We'll talk to you later. Have some kisses. And now it's your turn to go. All right. So I titled this podcast. Right place, wrong people, because all of us have heard the phrase. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't I don't believe that. I can't get on board with something like that personally.
The 1997 Pikeville Youth Case Introduction
00:06:11
Speaker
In my opinion, I think that's like the dumbest phrase in human history. It's like that phrase to me equates to. Well, she was wearing really revealing clothes. Yeah. Like she was asking for it. Right. Well, not even just that. You know, I mean, like you're talking about someone's behavior. Oh, he got hit by a car. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. No, somebody wasn't paying attention and hit a kid with a car that they weren't doing anything wrong living their life. Someone else decided to be a selfish entitled somebody else was who they were supposed to be doing. Yeah.
00:06:42
Speaker
So I am going to take us to 1997 in Pikeville. You really like in the nineties. Oh no. Well, apparently a lot of crap went down in the nineties that I didn't know about. I think a lot of things went down a lot of times. I was, I was too busy being youthful at that point in time and you know, possibly brain damage. I don't know.
00:07:02
Speaker
Things happen. You recover. It is what it is. Anyways, so now I don't know in Kentucky if it's pronounced the same way, but if we were in Tennessee, it'd be Pikeville. But it's Pikeville, Kentucky. Six young young teens or well, young youths, if you will.
Troubled Youths' Road Trip Plan
00:07:25
Speaker
Youth does not use the use. It's like you guys. You shut up. Shut up.
00:07:35
Speaker
I can't even get a freaking sentence out without you. Like literally here's the period. Here's where I started. One, two, three, four, five words in five, five words. And I can't, I can't even just, this is why my podcast take forever. I have a lot of information. It's that I've got like four or five paragraphs and then I get butchered by faith. Here's the deal.
00:08:00
Speaker
People want to hear my stories. The good thing about having your own podcast is I can do what I want to do. And, you know. Well, you have 17 pages of crap that I have to sit and listen to. So I'm just going to, you know, put that on the record as saying I keep my mouth shut a lot of times and I try to let things know I don't. I don't know you don't know. OK. All right. So six young youths. Ages ranging from 14 to 20.
00:08:31
Speaker
We're hanging out in a hotel doing what stupid young people do. They decide they're going to go on a road trip and they were going to go to New Orleans. So during Mardi Gras. No, no, it's not. It's not as fun, but good eating. Oh, sorry, guys. I'm still tired. I can't stop yawning. All right. One of the girls had already been there before and she's like, let's go. Let's just do this. Sure. Because as a parent, I would let my
00:09:01
Speaker
You use run away with a bunch of other use to send city to some city. So they jump into one of the young man's mother's cars. OK. And they set out for the best time ever. What? OK. But nobody knew how this trip was going to end. I know how this trip is going to end, even if it wasn't on a true podcast. I'm going to I'm going to know. I'm going to tell you something right now.
00:09:28
Speaker
You're gonna hate me. It's gonna end in stupid decisions and someone getting hurt. Six youth. Every single podcast we do. Literally.
00:09:39
Speaker
It's somebody made a bad choice and someone got hurt. You've got 16. That's like predicting mama's. That's like going to Mardi Gras. The sun's going to come up tomorrow. Like you're you're telling me that there is a group of six teenagers you can put in a car and go to a different state, a very high, high impact, loose moral party
Sinister Encounter at Tennessee Rest Stop
00:10:02
Speaker
city. Yeah. And there's not going to be a dumb decision made. Right. Right.
00:10:07
Speaker
I went to I went and stayed. It wasn't even in New Orleans, but I went and stayed with a bunch of friends that I grew up with in Jennings, Louisiana. Was I there? You were not. This is before you. So I was for me. OK, I was in it was before I went to Carnes. So I was in like eighth grade. So even high school, I can even drive.
00:10:27
Speaker
Do you know how many stupid decisions we made? And you know how much trouble I got in? Because my mom listened in on a phone conversation with my friend Sheena when I got back and I was telling her about everything and I got in so much trouble.
00:10:38
Speaker
That was before I even started making really bad decisions. Did you smoke a cigarette? I did not. What was this crazy thing you did? I don't want to talk. We're going to have to have a private conversation later or not because the second trip to Jennings that you went on with me, I found out that apparently it's a thing in Louisiana that you can do drive through margaritas, buddy. And let me just tell you, the tape was on the cap the whole time.
00:11:05
Speaker
And those are the and that's all I'm going to confess. That's all I'll confess to the straw may or may not have been in it. Whatever. Either way, I'm going to. All right. So I'm going to pause for a second and just kind of give you. That's what we just did was pause. Well, five. No, that's again. You can't shut up like you. It's like this. Like you call everybody else captain gum flaps. But I believe that when we're alone together, that's you.
00:11:30
Speaker
Well, I got to get my talking out sometime. I know. Right. Yeah. Sometimes when you are in an Italian family, women don't get to say much. Sometimes when you're an Italian family, women don't get to do much except cook and clean. Yeah. But I think they do it on purpose. They can get away from them. Amen. I go plow the field, please. Yes. I'm going to please. I'm going to go pick the grapes to make the wine. I can do this.
00:11:58
Speaker
Anyway, so there's going to be a lot of bouncing around in this room. There usually is. And because of the direction that the story goes in, I've got references that I have on my tablet. I've got references that I've got on my phone. I've got a whirlwind of information, not to mention the fact a lot of it I'm doing from memory as well.
00:12:20
Speaker
because of how many different podcasts and things that I've listened to. And I'm gonna kind of like interject some of it. And I know they can't seem a little... Yep, my finger pointing thingies. Yep, like praying mantis style. All right. So they set out, they go on their trips. All right. So now I'm going to read off some names to you. Natasha Cornett, 18. Edward Mullins, 19. Joseph Reisner, 20.
00:12:48
Speaker
And Crystal Sturdily, 18, Jason Bryant, 14, and Karen Howell, 17. Why is there one 14 year old? I was expecting them all to be like 16, 17. So they're older than I anticipated. That's why I changed it from teens to youth, because technically Joseph's a young adult. They're all young adults. He's 20. Is the 14 year old someone's like stepbrother or cousin? Nope.
00:13:17
Speaker
No
Tragic Outcome for Lillie Lyd Family
00:13:18
Speaker
relation whatsoever. Then how did that happen? We're going to get there. You know, I just I think I'm not going to say anything about him. All right. So the name mentioned above are the names of six kids with troubled lives all finding their way to each other. The story I'm about to tell you has a lot of twists and turns and maybe possibly somewhere in all of that crap that you're about to hear. The truth could be, but we'll probably never know.
00:13:47
Speaker
Oh, good. Good. Good. I love throwing crap out there like that. All right. So these six young kids gather up some belongings and they decide they all could do better than the abusive homes that they were being put through. Right. Yeah. Because pretty much every single one, except for like the one kid and I believe it was Edward. I might change my mind on that, but I'm pretty sure it's Edward had pretty crappy childhood. OK. OK. Like there was a lot that went on and we'll
00:14:18
Speaker
divulge some of that information as we go through the story, okay? So they gather up some of their crap, they get into the car, and they take off for the open road. After a while, Natasha, much like every female on a road trip, has to pee.
00:14:36
Speaker
They pull over into a rest area, which personally for me, I don't like rest areas. They creep me out, especially not, you know, I used to be the rest areas till I started listening to a lot. You couldn't pay me to go to a rest area now. If it's broad daylight and I have a few weapons on me. No, especially with my kid. Absolutely not. Now, five years ago, I had to pull it over there and slip in the parking lot for a little nasty nap. Yeah, I know. But now it's like, no, here's the deal, though. I think a lot of that has to do with like age.
00:15:06
Speaker
because I used to sit here and climb on the roof of my house and smoke cigarettes because I didn't want my parents to know. And then after I had Caleb, I was in my 30s and they, him and my nephews accidentally threw a football or I think, no, a Frisbee up onto the roof. I used to go on the roof all the time. This is nothing. I got this. I get out there.
00:15:30
Speaker
And I immediately turn into like a backwards walking crab position where i'm holding my window like the window frame yeah and I sit there and i'm like but and i'm trying to like kick it off.
00:15:44
Speaker
And then I realized that I'm still 10 feet away from the Frisbee I'm not gonna make it. Okay, so I crawled back in and I was like I get back downstairs It's like find something else to play with a buy you a new one like I think it's but I really do think it's age because like it back in my back in my 20s and stuff like it didn't even matter I've always been a scared person. So, you know Well, I don't know about all that. I yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I have I
00:16:14
Speaker
Oh, wait. Yeah, that's right. You don't swim late because we live in Tennessee and there are sharks there and our oceans. There's not sharks in Tennessee, but there's alligators and snakes. No, there's knocks. Snocks. The belly used to come when she was. Oh, OK. That makes more sense. Anyway, back to our story. Back to the story. So. They get to a rest area in Greene County, Tennessee.
00:16:43
Speaker
Eyewitnesses state, they saw the six kids in a conversation with a man and a woman and their two young kids. The eyewitnesses, much like all of us do, didn't think anything of it. It's not weird for people to talk right outside of a arrest area. So they just went about their business and they took back off onto the road.
Failed Escape and Arrest of Youths
00:17:07
Speaker
A short while later, the police were called by two different people that were living in the area at the time.
00:17:13
Speaker
claiming that they heard clusters of gunshots and what sounded like kids playing on a playground. Now, this is important and I want you to keep that in mind. First of all, in Tennessee, just in general, when you're living out like toward the lake or in the sticks, whatever you want to call it, hearing a gunshot, it's not abnormal. The only thing you can think is target practice,
00:17:38
Speaker
hunting a multitude of whatever. There's a there's a critter. And so, yeah, just a freaking skunk. Right. BT does break. You went outside our house last night to get sprayed. No, he did not. But he was faced with about six wild coyotes staring at him. Hmm. Hmm.
00:17:58
Speaker
So I'm afraid of the outdoors again for more reason. Hashtag stay inside, stay alive. Okay. Well, hashtag, uh, don't let Bella Bella play outside in, in anywhere in your yard ever. And I'll tell you the monsters inside of me episode later after we're not on our podcast anyway. So they were very particular, the witnesses when they said, I heard a cluster of gunshots. Yeah. Okay. So we're looking at like, we're not looking at pal.
00:18:25
Speaker
That's not target. Click, click. Pow. We're looking at pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. Like somebody going cry, cry. Right. OK. I enjoyed you did not know you did not stop looking at me like I'm dumb, but you stop saying dumb things. Do that.
00:18:46
Speaker
I don't know why Sandy can't listen to this. I don't like yeah, we have some pretty terrible stories but at the same time like It's it's basically just having a conversation with the two of us in general. How can I make fun of faith?
00:18:59
Speaker
How can I make one of Lisa? Yeah, basically. In a nutshell. Waiting for the other one to mess up. Did you? Did you? Did you just say that? Did you just mispronounce that that was the wrong and fastest on the wrong syllable? Attack! Attack! Anyway, so again, they hear clusters of clusters of gunshots and what sounded like kids playing on a playground. And when the police arrived, what they found was completely gruesome.
00:19:29
Speaker
So earlier I gave you the names of the kids. Yeah. I'm still there. I told you they were in a hotel. You did not say anything about a hotel.
00:19:43
Speaker
You said they were going to well, I could have missed it, but they were all they were traveling. No, they were they were hanging out. No, I said that they were in a hotel doing this. What stupid people do and decided to go on road trip. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because then we started talking about what stupid things we all did. I didn't know they were in a hotel when they decided to go on the road. I may have blown over that, but they were in fact in a hotel room just doing what dumb kids did or whatever. And so
Courtroom Blame Game and Manipulations
00:20:10
Speaker
That's where I'm going to pick up now because I've lost my spot again. All right. So. What I meant by, you know, doing what dumb kids do, they were drinking, right? They were drugging it up. Of course. Cool, right. What kind of drugs are we talking? Do we know? There was from one of the girls statements and one of the things, no, not statements, one of the
00:20:33
Speaker
toxicology, no, it wasn't a toxicology, like literally like her mom's side of the story and then things that were divulged in her past or whatever. Yeah. But she was on like heroin and coke and all kinds of stuff. We're here now. They were doing all of that. And then two of the girls were actually like drinking each other's blood. And they said that it made them spiritually closer.
00:21:01
Speaker
So nothing good was gonna come out of this new beginning in New Orleans, I think, personally, right? Because we're already starting off on kind of a bad track. We're bringing our bad habits with us to New Orleans. We are. In fact, the kids knew the car that they had, that they took from the kid's mom. I'm guessing it was stolen. Was not gonna make it. Okay. And they decided they were just gonna steal one along the way.
00:21:29
Speaker
Why not? Why not? So when they entered the rest stop. In Green County, Tennessee, Green County. They were approached by a man named Vidar Lillie Lyd. What? Vidar? Mm hmm. Lillie Lyd. Like Lillie and Lyd. Lillie Lyd. Lillie Lyd. Yeah. Sorry.
00:21:57
Speaker
And it's just kind of like one of those things where like you're all just kind of standing around and somebody just randomly like sparks conversation. Yeah. So the doors like we're traveling home. We're going back to Powell, which is, you know, in Knoxville, Tennessee, with his family. And he had his wife and a couple of his kids with him. The family had actually just finished a religious retreat. They were super amped up about it.
00:22:27
Speaker
I mean, a lot of people that go on. You're in the Bible. You're in the Bible. In the Bible. Right. Clearly in the Bible. When you when you come home from a retreat like you're amped up, you want to talk about it. Yeah. Right. And that's pretty much what he did. Like he struck up a conversation with these kids. He's like, you know, have you ever like heard about God in any way? And so. He got a couple of the boys and was talking to him and he had his two year old son with him. His name was Peter.
00:22:56
Speaker
And he starts talking to these kids about it. And he's like, y'all want to come sit at the picnic bench. We can continue the conversation. And the boys were like, yeah, let's let's go. And everything was great. So meanwhile, Natasha goes
Brutal Autopsy and Crime Scene Symbolism
00:23:11
Speaker
to the bathroom. She comes back out and she sees that these other two boys that they're with are having a conversation with this man. Yeah. And she was then approached by Delfina Lillilid.
00:23:26
Speaker
and her six-year-old daughter, Tabitha, you know, everybody was just kind of standing around, you know, they were just, yeah, chilling, right? Stretching our legs, you know. And so according to Natasha and the statement that she gave while she was on the stand, she said that they were just sitting there talking about stuff. Tabitha was actually giving her Hershey kisses with the young six-year-old girl. Yeah. Apparently, Joseph, out of nowhere,
00:23:53
Speaker
Now, which one see Joseph is Joseph Risner, Risner, probably the 20 year old. Was like, I hate to do you guys this way, but we're going to have to take you with us so we can take your basically. Oh, OK. So like any.
00:24:14
Speaker
normal human would do. Vidar began pleading and begging and saying, here's my keys. Here's my wallet. Here's whatever I can possibly give you. Yep. Plus his wife. Right. Take, take whatever you need and go and just leave us alone. Be with God. Be with God. Go with God.
00:24:35
Speaker
Um, but Joseph apparently refused to leave them behind. So you're not just trying to hijack a car. If you're taking the family, you've got, you've got ill intention, sir. We have a lot. You always go right into like speaking points at the end. I don't can't say I love that. You do it to me too. So yeah, that's true. We do like to predict things. So
00:25:01
Speaker
Put the family into the van the remainder of the kids I guess Natasha and there was one other one I cannot for the life of me remember the name at the moment, but They rode in the van with the family and they were being held at gunpoint. Oh, I forgot to tell you Well shots apparently before they even left town two of the kids took guns from their parents house and
00:25:27
Speaker
Well, you did give us those delightful sound effects earlier. So I was assuming a gun was coming into play at some point. There's a gun. Yeah. But, you know, these kids who had nothing planned about a carjacking. And take the family and, you know, whatever anyways. So, yeah, they're being held at gunpoint. They drove a few miles up and parked by Payne Hollow Lane.
00:25:55
Speaker
The lily lids were lined up along a ditch and shot one by one. According to Natasha's testimony, they all got into the van and floored it. They swerved out of the way to avoid something. But in the in the process of trying to avoid something, they ran something else over. And it was when she turned to look out the back window, she realized they had run over the family. Oh, OK. OK.
00:26:25
Speaker
Getting into this. Oh, you don't even know. So so they shot now we're going to we're going to we're going to jump a little bit. And this is where I've got to find my crap on my phone real fast. All right. So Natasha Cornett. Was 18. She was born in Bessie Lane, Kentucky. She was a product of an affair, grew up in poverty.
00:26:52
Speaker
She was polite, good student, blah, blah, blah. Her academic in sixth grade, her academic performance declined.
Societal and Emotional Crime Reflections
00:27:00
Speaker
She left school before completing the ninth grade, blah, blah, blah. Cornett started using alcohol, illegal drugs, including heroin, ecstasy, and cocaine. At the age of 14, she was arrested for forgery.
00:27:13
Speaker
and theft of box checks, whatever, and sentenced by the juvenile court to a year of probation. Now, according to her mother, she claimed that she was, I guess, on what they say. She wasn't fully diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but she ended up like in a facility and they let her go after like 11 days, even though they said like she's probably not going to stop.
00:27:41
Speaker
Good. OK. At least turn to the public. So Edward Mullen, 19, born in 78 in Kentucky as well, left school in 96 during his 12th grade year. Was working on his GED. Mullens had no criminal record, had been employed at a grocery store in Pikeville in 93 to 94. Mullens family and friends said that his behavior worsened after becoming involved with Burnett. Joseph Reisner.
00:28:10
Speaker
20 years old, born in 76 in Kentucky, doesn't matter. Never met his biological father, his adopted stepfather. He took on his adoptive father's last name. His family lived in Columbia, Kentucky, moved to Georgia, and did that back into Kentucky. Yep. Apparently had a history of marijuana, alcohol, and LSD usage.
00:28:33
Speaker
He claimed to have had sexual relations with babysitters when he was 12 years old. Oh, dang. You know, basically failed a whole bunch of crap. Yeah, so now we're moving on to Crystal. Sturgill. I still don't think you're pronouncing her correct, but that's OK. Yeah, probably not. Don't even care. Eighteen, born in 79 in Kentucky.
00:29:00
Speaker
Her mother, teen Blackburn, refused to divulge the name of her father. The name does not appear on the death certificate, blah, blah, blah. I mean birth certificate. What did I say, death? You said death. I did not mean to. So apparently. This girl wasn't stupid. OK. All right. She performed like really good on standardized tests.
00:29:28
Speaker
She got a 28 on her AC team. She applied for admission to several colleges, worked at Bessie Lane Elementary School Daycare, part of a co-op program. Basically, everything about this girl screamed potential. Yeah. OK. Besides her choices. Right. Exactly. After whatever time, she claimed that her stepfather accused
00:29:56
Speaker
or she accused her stepfather of repeatedly sexually abusing her. She ended up moving in with her aunt in a different place in Kentucky and blah, blah, blah. So now I'm always saying blah, blah, blah, because it's like everybody always has a sob story for why they do what they do. Right. So Jason Brand, this is our 14 year old, OK, was born in 82 in Kentucky, had an IQ of 85.
00:30:26
Speaker
an emotional and the emotional and social skills of an 11 year old. He had a history of alcohol and drug abuse beginning as early as three. He and was in the. Yeah, he was in the eighth grade, apparently, when all this went down. Anyways, Karen Howell, last one, 17, born in 79. And she was born in Ohio. Family moved to Kentucky when she was three.
00:30:55
Speaker
childhood was characterized by severely violent fights between her parents until they divorced when she was nine. She was recorded as having an IQ of 78, which is significantly low, below average intelligence. Howell claimed that she had been sexually abused between the ages of five and 10 by a paternal uncle and a cousin and described herself as fearful of relationships. And by the age of 13, she began mutilating herself.
00:31:25
Speaker
Oh, well, apparently she's another one that fell victim to the whole, you know, Wiccan culture of. Satanic, blah, blah, blah. I don't know why dark crap brings comfort to. Kids like it's just weird to me how that always works, like they don't they don't fall like on the on the good side. And I guess it's probably because they feel like they've been tortured their whole life.
00:31:54
Speaker
but why would you run to the torture aspect when you could run to like a friend, you know? Like God, you know, good versus evil, God versus Satan. Well, I think it's because, I mean, they live in Kentucky, so they're still in the Bible Belt S area. So you have all these, I mean, a lot of Christians like to use the throwaway phases of God's got a plan and
00:32:21
Speaker
you know, that everything, God's gonna have all this work out. And while, you know, yes, God does have a plan and yes, things could work out when you're hurting and you're going through abuse. So this is the plan your God had for me. Yeah. And then like, you know, there's that ample amount of, well, I prayed and nothing happened. And quite frankly, Christians are typically mean judgmental jerks.
00:32:49
Speaker
Hypocritians. Yeah. Hypocritians. So, I mean, so just to state for the record, though, we both are Christians. We just don't like to label ourselves as a relationship with God. I don't have a Pharisees. Yes, if you will. Let's just, you know, I mean.
00:33:06
Speaker
Christians are very judgmental. And it's, you know, you're doing this wrong and you need to change this. And Jesus didn't treat people like that in the Bible. He's not even out of centers and prostitutes and drunkard centers. I know it's OK. Whatever. But you know what I mean? Head on the head later. So I mean, but that's I mean, if I had a horrible childhood or a horrible background,
00:33:30
Speaker
And all this crap is happening to me. And I've got people saying, you know, God's got a plan for you and you just need to trust in God's process. Go bang yourself, bro. Like, you know, nothing anything to do with that, God, like Christians. Yeah. Because Jesus is like common sense and help them. But yeah. And judging everybody and screwing people over. Off my soapbox now. So. Currently, after they took off,
00:34:00
Speaker
They decided New Orleans was a bad idea.
Legal Consequences and Justice System Debate
00:34:03
Speaker
Too many people knew about it. So we were going to head for the border. We're going to Mexico, Mexico. Out of sheer passports, out of sheer dumb luck, the computer systems on the American side of the border were down.
00:34:23
Speaker
They made it into Mexico. How? What they did not know. Seriously, the computer system was down. They saw no reason to stop these kids. OK, they showed IDs, whatever. Right. Clearly not before 9-11. Right. And well, not even that. They clearly did
Moral Implications and Legal System Critique
00:34:40
Speaker
not look at the ideas of everyone in the car because Mr. 14 year old didn't have one. Right. So due diligence, not so much. Right. Basically kidnapping that kid. So.
00:34:53
Speaker
Um, they get down, I think they said it was like 10 miles or so, which is not like common knowledge, but Mexico has its own. You know, little passport dealio to go for that. You've got you've got the entering country and exiting country. Correct. Takes forever. Mexico's all like, um, no, as a matter of fact, I'm I'm going to search your car. Oh, dang. Cool.
00:35:21
Speaker
So they found that obviously it was not their van and they wound up. You know, saying, oh, they've got this, they got this, whatever, whatever. And they're like, you know what? Turn around. You're not my problem. Go back to the United States. OK, because we don't need your crap. Why don't you try Virginia here? It's lovely this time of year. Hmm.
00:35:47
Speaker
I don't have anything against Virginia. It's just the first state that popped in my head. I was going to say, man, you could have gone California. We have plenty against. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Anyway, so they take back off to the US border. This time the computers were back up. Oh, no. And the kids got stopped. OK, not only did they get stopped, but they ran the plates. Cars not theirs belongs to the Lulu family. Yep. Each of them had these weird trinkets on them, if you will.
00:36:16
Speaker
like talismans, as it turns out. All of those things belonged to one of the members of the family, all of them, all of them had wrong. OK, so. Naturally, they're arrested, they are hauled off to court, they go to trial, where ironically, all of them, with the exception of the 14 year old,
00:36:42
Speaker
because he was technically a minor, right? And I even still think they were trying to like do him dirty and try him as an adult. They were seeking the death penalty. Now it's Tennessee. Hang him and hang him high. And that's kind of the way we stand on things, right?
00:37:01
Speaker
Can't say I disagree. Right. You just shut down a family for no reason. A two year old and a six year old that were trying to do what they felt was right and like share their, you know, beliefs. Yeah. Because quite frankly, literally just having a conversation. No matter what you believe in, if you don't believe in it strongly enough to share their people, to share with other people, then you don't believe in your value enough to think it's true.
00:37:25
Speaker
Right. Well, I mean, that's not even just that. They could have been having a conversation about the weather that night. They were going to be victims no matter what. They were. Yeah. These people were out to just be awful. So here is the part where I'm going to give you like a little bit of like background on what I heard through some of the trial statements and faith for once. I did the right thing.
00:37:49
Speaker
I have made copies of that. I've made copies of the links to some of the videos that I watched and I'm going to send them to you after the podcast. But it is Natasha on the stand along with Crystal. And there was one of the boys that cannot for the life of me, which which one it was. But she basically.
00:38:12
Speaker
Basically, in her testimony, it was well, Joseph decided to, you know, hijack the car or whatever. So they all decide I was going to go under the bus. Oh, not even close. OK. Not even close.
00:38:30
Speaker
She started claiming she didn't really know what was going on. And she felt so bad for the family. They all got into the car. You know, Riz, Ryzen, Joseph, whatever. Yeah. Screaming because he wanted Tabitha, the six year old, to stop crying. The mom started singing songs in the back to try to get her to calm down. You know, they drove to wherever they went and, you know, everybody had gotten out of the car and
00:39:00
Speaker
Again, the whole purpose of all of this was to just take the van. OK, and so according to. Crystal. Natasha, and I think it was Joseph on the stand for what I what I watched, it was actually Jason, the 14 year old that lost his mind. Oh, he's the one that had the gun and he was like,
00:39:27
Speaker
You know, what should we do with them? And Joseph's like, I don't know what you think we should do. Should we let them live? Should we let them die? Jason's like, let's kill them. They're telling me all these all these young adults are looking at a child saying, tell us what to do. El Capitan. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Totally logical. Horse manure. All right. So Jason apparently is the one that lost his crap, right? OK.
00:39:56
Speaker
And he's the one that shot everybody. OK. OK. And that's basically what their testimony was. They took Jason, tossed him straight under the bus and left him there to die. Much like they did that family as they rolled them over with their own vehicle. Right. Correct. On the same page. Now, I'm also want to just throw this out here super fast. But apparently in one of Jason's statements,
00:40:24
Speaker
He told them because when he was arrested, he had a bullet hole in his hand and I think one in his leg. OK. And he also had a rough night. All of the five claimed it was self-inflicted. He told them he told the cops. They did this to me because I told them I wouldn't take the fall. The 14 year old. He said he didn't want to take the blame for all the murders because they all knew.
00:40:54
Speaker
He would get the he wouldn't get the death penalty because child because he's a minor can't give the death penalty to children anymore. Right. Oh, now I don't know who to believe. Uh huh. Now. And there's not going to be a resolution. I hate you. Now. Moving on. So that's basically what came to be. It's it's it's the five versus the one. Right. And so now I am going to read to you guys.
00:41:21
Speaker
verbatim, the autopsy that they posted on Wikipedia. So thank you, Wikipedia. Dr. Cleveland Blake, forensic pathologist, testified that Vidar's body had six gunshot wounds. Overkill. Uh huh. One to the right side of his head and five to his chest. OK. The first shot entered his eye, traveled through his temple and exited the front right ear.
00:41:48
Speaker
While he cannot be certain it was Blake's opinion, the shots were fired from a nine millimeter handgun. It would have caused loss of consciousness, whatever. Vidar then fell to the ground on his back and was shot three times in the upper right side of his chest. The wounds were also described as being consistent with those of a nine millimeter.
00:42:14
Speaker
and targeted so that they would form an equilateral triangle. So they made a pattern out of the gunshots? What does a triangle represent, Faith? I obviously do not know the answer to this. When I was talking about them drinking blood and shit earlier and that one chick, that was vampires. Some of them say vampires, but it's it's Satanism.
00:42:38
Speaker
I did not know that the triangle there's a lot of things I associate with Satanism. It's like the triangle with the eye is like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have the all seeing eye though to be involved with Illuminati. Correct. But they just did the triangle because the triangle is is representative. I'm sure none of them high out of their minds to draw an eyeball to save their life. So well, not out of a gunshot. Wow.
00:43:07
Speaker
Um. Yeah. So a wound just below, but ours nipple was consistent with a 25 caliber weapon and the final wound from a nine millimeter was located just beneath. So now we're looking at two different caliber weapons. So, you know, surely.
00:43:31
Speaker
It was definitely one person that did it anyway. There was a laceration on the dies. Vidar's right forearm, where he had been grazed by a bullet and post mortem superficially abrasions on the back of his legs. Vidar most likely died within a few minutes of the initial gunshot to his eye. Delfina, which is the life, OK, was shot eight times. All eight bullets were recovered, six of them from a nine millimeter.
00:44:01
Speaker
and two of them were from 25 caliber. The first shot from the nine millimeter shattered the bone in her left arm. The second shot from the nine millimeter shattered her femur in her left thigh. OK. Blake testified that these shots would not have killed her, but would have caused severe pain, leaving her unable to stand. Delfina was shot an additional six times while her while left on her back. No, while on her back.
00:44:32
Speaker
And Blake's opinion, these shots, no, wait. Striking the left shot, the left side of her abdomen. It was a Blake's opinion again that these shots were fired to form a triangular pattern because that's not. I'm sorry, that's just weird. You're playing with your food before you kill it there. And in that show, yeah, I would say so. Like that's not something even people like animals do. No. Like you're just torturing and maiming to torture and maim.
00:45:01
Speaker
Yeah, so. Again, we got another triangle or triangular thing that's going on, similar injuries that were inflicted on her husband. Three shots that pierced her stomach, leaving a four to five inch tear and traveled through her pancreas, spleen, left kidney and left adrenal gland. A final nine millimeter entry was located at the midsection of Delphina's abdomen just above her navel.
00:45:32
Speaker
and the bullet was recovered from her spine. There was a 25 caliber gunshot wound under her left armpit where the bullet entered, coming to a stop in the skin in the back of her left shoulder. Another shot caused a wound to Delphina's left side and the bullet was recovered from the center of her liver. She also suffered abrasions on her right calf. Delphina's wounds were not immediately fatal.
00:46:00
Speaker
And according to the autopsy doctor, she could have been conscious and living for as long as 25 minutes. No. And I'm just going to say that includes when they got ran over. I'm just going to I'm on pump breaks. If you are fixing to go into a very similar rendition for the children, I'm going to throw a punch you rendition of the children.
00:46:26
Speaker
Like there are two children that were murdered by these psychos. Delphina's lily lids. If you if you tell me that they did all this because they're not just killing them, like if you want to do some kind of like. Marking of the body that you killed, do it after you killed them, you're torturing them. And if you're going to go to a similar thing with a two and a six year old, I'm going to throw up, punch you and know what the funny part of that is. And I'm so glad you brought that up.
00:46:55
Speaker
But in Natasha's testimony, she straight up said, I went to the family because I couldn't stop Jason from killing them. And I told them, please don't let them hurt the kids. Give me the kids. And I can't stop him from hurting you like the parents. Right. And Vidar basically just grabbed the kids tighter and said, they're staying here.
00:47:25
Speaker
because if we die, they die. And it's almost like he knew what was going on because what like if it were me, truth be told, I'm not going to die in a state of mind thinking that I just handed my son over to a monster to a bunch of crazy kids because you don't know what you don't know how long they're going to torture those kids. Number one, number two.
00:47:48
Speaker
If you're going to shoot me and prolong it, I'm at least going to swing as hard as I physically can. Yeah. And we don't know. We don't. Because the only thing that we have is six psychopaths. Six. Yeah. Six like a little pack mentality of kids who've been used up and forgotten by the system, never had any help besides each other. And they're all going to cover for each other with enough reasonable doubt to where it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.
00:48:17
Speaker
All right, so, Faith, I love you. Mm hmm. Just know when I punch you, you ask for it. But we're going to have to move on to the next victim. Six year old Tabitha was shot once in the head with a small caliber weapon. With the bullet entering the left side of her skull, traveling downward and exiting out of her right ear. At least it was not the word caused immediate brain death.
00:48:44
Speaker
OK. I mean, I'm not OK with it, but I'm better than them torturing the child first now. I'm going to have to stop again and go back before I finish the rest of the autopsy reports. OK. So the cops that I told you came on scene, there was a lot of banter that went on.
00:49:07
Speaker
because the story that the kids were telling and the kids were still there when the cops showed up. Yeah, they caught a lot. They were in Mexico at the border. I'm back. But the cops noticed that the story they were telling and what they arrived on the scene to see were two very different things. And so one of one of the people that had seen the way that the bodies had been laid
00:49:38
Speaker
They just fell that way. Like mom, mom. Yeah. Like with all this symbolism and information we've heard there, I'm sure they left it to chance. Some of them were like, well, that kind of resembles an upside down cross. Now. I told you. Resembled an upside down cross. Yeah.
00:49:59
Speaker
the way they were perfect the way they fell in quotes in my my point of view position. But again, I have no claims. I've never seen pictures. I don't know how the bodies were sprawled out. It could be whatever anybody wants it to be. This podcast is a true crime podcast. We're telling you the facts of the crime as we researched it.
00:50:20
Speaker
But we're also going to give our opinion and our opinion is it was displayed and posed, not just randomly fell, completely obliterating everything these people just tried to share with them. Yeah. Continue. So. One of the cops that had arrived on the scene and again, this will be part of some of the. The links that I'm going to share, which I'll post to social. Yeah.
00:50:49
Speaker
The cop literally just ran to the bodies to see if anybody was alive. Yeah, that's what you do. Okay. Now, I just told you that you are very specific and brain dead that the mommy was probably still alive when they got run over. Twenty five minutes. And so when he found Peter, Pete, the two year old, the two year old just remind everybody to. His face was stuck in the mud.
00:51:18
Speaker
Oh, and when he picked the child up. He noticed the that boy still had a pulse. Fracking kidding me. So did Tabitha. After getting shot with you, you're very specific and brain dead. That's not dead. That's not dead. Yeah. So both of them were airlifted. And taken to.
00:51:40
Speaker
the hospital. One of them, I think, was at UT Medical. That's going to be the biggest trauma center in the area. There was the daughter, I think, that got taken. The other one was taken to, it was one of the child centers that was around at that time, but not, no, I'm sorry. I got lower on that one. That was my bad. I know you're talking, I'm watching, I'm watching the little squiggly lines and I see that you're not picking up as well. I'm just, it's at this point, it's just,
00:52:06
Speaker
I don't want to be loud and I'm not laughing or joking anymore because it's just so senseless, needless, stupid, necessary. Yes, that's another good adjective. But now I can't help but say they said in the autopsy, she was probably alive when they got run over. And so she was literally sitting there listening to her children by the mom. No. And that's all I could think about.
00:52:36
Speaker
And you don't know how long they whimpered before they. Oh. Yep. That's freaking horrible. As a mom. Yeah. And a decent somewhat decent human being. I can't claim full decency. Yeah. So.
00:52:58
Speaker
Again, Tabitha was put on life support. It wasn't until her uncle who had been named her custodian at that point gave permission to basically pull the plug and we'll we'll donate the organs like there's literally nothing can be done. Yeah. Peter Lillie Lidd, two year old. Was shot twice in the small with a small caliber weapon. One shot entered behind his right ear and exited near his right eye.
00:53:27
Speaker
A second gunshot penetrated his back and extended through his chest. And he was transported by a life star helicopter to pediatric intensive care for OK with the University of Tennessee Memorial Hospital in Knoxville. Where he was listed in critical condition. Who shoots a two year old? Right. Well, Jason, apparently. Right. The 14 year old. But these Jason was the 14 year old.
00:53:56
Speaker
I thought Jason was the older one, the 20 year old that started everything. Oh, Joseph. Joseph. Too many J's. OK. And so jerks. Peter required vigorous resuscitation, having sustained a contusion to his right lung and residual bleeding in his chest cavity because he was shot and ran over by a car and he is too.
00:54:22
Speaker
Yep. The doctors removed his eye 11 days after the shooting. Oh, my God. He remained in the hospital for 17 days before being transferred to a Knoxville rehabilitation center. Peter Lilly Lidd is alive today. No. He is the only lived. He is the sole survivor. She is. Oh, he is whole and he's too young to really give you any account of what he's got. Nothing.
00:54:47
Speaker
And that's actually, again, that's another one of the interviews that I'm going to be sending you the link to to post. And it was really. Like he the way he explains his childhood. With everything that he had to go through, he you know, at one point he said.
00:55:07
Speaker
Like you can be tired and you can be exhausted, but you don't get a break from this. This is no. It's a nightmare you wake up to every day. He's not talking about his experiences and what happened with his parents. He's talking about his physical being. Yeah. And he can't walk very well. He's married, though, by the way, and is like starting a family the whole nine. And it's really it's honestly.
00:55:32
Speaker
Pleasure to see. He was apparently there was a custody battle. Excuse me. And he ended up moving back to Sweden, I think, with. I think it was that it was dad's sister or mom's sister or whatever, but he was still in the family. Look how cute he is. Why are you looking up stuff? Because I want to see what he looks like, because he is a freaking. Amazing two year old that, you know, survived death.
00:56:00
Speaker
Yeah, basically. Look how cute he is. You can't even tell that they took his eye. I was really expecting. Oh, no, he has the coolest accent, too. And I was listening to his interview. Like I said, I'll send you all the stuff that I read. Now, do you remember our very, very first episode?
00:56:16
Speaker
Yes, Shannon, the Christiansen. Yep. Do you remember the tyrant? We went off about how when these people are giving their testimony the first time we recorded or the second time we recorded either one, I don't remember, but we were talking about people crying on the stand.
00:56:33
Speaker
Right. You don't have a single single like this here. No, there's no tears. Yeah. And I even watched one of these videos multiple times to see if their eyes were even red, because I don't know about you, but I've never cried and my eyes don't like just. Oh, no, I am not a pretty crier. It is snot and yuck. And I don't know how anybody could stand on on the stand, if you will, and
00:56:58
Speaker
like reenact something like that or tell that story and not just friggin lose it. Like if you really, really didn't want to have a part in this and you tried desperately to save, quote, yeah, children. I would be bawling my eyes out. Yeah, like it's traumatic. It's something traumatic you lived through. Yeah. Oh, Lordy. Well, these people look just like
00:57:27
Speaker
Whoever this girl is in the Johnson City Press, look, Karen Howell just looks like she gives she has that's crystal to give. I think that's crystal. It says Karen. No, no, you're right. It's Chris. That's that's Carol. But yeah, I don't like these people. Well, you should go listen to their testimonies. I will do that and I will be angry and probably punch you again.
00:57:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's a possible. Wow, I can't believe you like the funny thing is like I googled Peter Lilly lid just because I wanted to see what he looks like, right? And in the like, there's not a ton of things that because I pulled up it. I just wanted to go. One of the pictures that pull up is a a picture of Shannon.
00:58:19
Speaker
I always say Nick and that's not his name. Chris Newsom. I know, but I always call him Nick, but that's one of the pictures that pulls up their story just because it's close. Before we try to come to a close, I just want to bring you back to one of the beginning statements that I made when I was talking about the witnesses that called the police. Yeah, because you said playing on a playground.
00:58:44
Speaker
It sounded like children playing on a playground. And I'm guessing that was the young adults having celebrating their their. Now, here's the thing, guys, these people weren't in sight range. OK, now they weren't seeing what was going on. No, they just heard things that were out of the ordinary for their area, the ordinary. And that is we look out for one another because we have Southern hospitality. That's right. But here's the thing.
00:59:15
Speaker
How do you have a witness describe what they heard as a cluster of gunshots and what sounds like children playing in a playground? And then you hear like the cops show up, they show up to the scene that I described to you with the possible upside down cross, the two year old, all of this, the torture and murder of a family and children. Yeah.
00:59:41
Speaker
And then listen to their testimonies and say, oh, they're telling the truth. All six pled guilty. OK, do you know why? So they'd get they wouldn't get the death penalty because they got a plea. Why would you even offer them? And they said the attorneys at the time said, if you plead guilty, you will get life imprisonment right without the possibility of parole.
01:00:10
Speaker
So in conclusion, the United States, they tried it. No, no, no, no. They revamped. I'm sorry. They revamped that rule back in 2000. I've lost my page now. I can't reference it. But man, I really want to find this real quick. There was. OK, so they revamped the law.
01:00:40
Speaker
And when you were convicted and you were like underage or whatever life imprisonment, whatever, whatever, but you were still technically considered like a young adult. Yeah. That you you're not going to serve that kind of time. Yeah. But some of them are 18, which is an illegal adult in October, October 5th, 2022.
01:01:01
Speaker
three of the six were denied having a retrial. They just straight up were like, nah, see you later. Like you're out now in the Lily lid trials. And I believe that was Natasha. Karen. Because Karen was still technically underage and Jason.
01:01:25
Speaker
Maybe the ones that were under 18, the three that were under 18 trying to get a retrial in a nutshell. Yeah. And Tennessee said, but I've never been more proud of my state than I am at this very moment. So here's my thing. Yeah. Tennessee like we've had this conversation a thousand times, like.
01:01:46
Speaker
you know, when your brain fully develops, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And then you have like this kid was 14, 14. OK. And then you go back to like, I don't get it. And it's a thousand times over how I can possibly fathom.
01:02:05
Speaker
what the human mind is capable of. There's a difference between not being developed and being like twisted to the point of this. This is not a bad decision because you're young and stupid and can't think of the consequences. And the majority is murder. Yeah. The majority of the girls did like self mutilation stuff and then
01:02:25
Speaker
OK, fine. That is something you choose to do to yourself. Yeah, but no, I'm not. That is not a justification. I'm not saying it at any point in time. I'm just saying like I cannot like even at my lowest point as a teenager, I never thought I'm going to take it out on somebody else. Yeah. Like I always wanted to just take it out on me. Like I suck. I don't want to be here anymore. You know what I mean? Everybody has those moments of despair. Just be mean to them like normal teenage girls.
01:02:54
Speaker
Make fun of what they're wearing. That's what teenage girls do. You don't brutally torture and murder an innocent family. Especially a two year old. And six. And six. I was going to say that's younger than my kid. Yeah. Like that's baby. Literal babies. You are monsters. Yeah. Like where was Buffy? That's all I can say.
01:03:18
Speaker
It was you want to drink. You want to drink somebody's blood? Yeah. Let's get the slayer to put us. Take care of it. She can't stake a heart if they don't have one. And these six do not. I think they had one. It's just ice.
01:03:31
Speaker
No, I stand by my original my original statement. That is my opinion. I am. I'm telling you when I give you the links that I'm going to send you, like I literally. OK, just here's the crashers and here's the pictures of the trial and they look like they just don't care. Yeah. Well, the crappy part is, is a lot of it's like it's it's definitely 90s video. OK, it's a little grainy. OK, but like I was. Yeah. Yeah, there is no. Yes, no HD.
01:04:00
Speaker
But I was like zooming in and these girls are just like. Oh, I've been the tears and I didn't see any tears. I didn't see any red eyes like every time I even even if I'm like welling up.
01:04:15
Speaker
People's eyes look like they're stoned out of their mind when they're crying. Yeah. Right. And just nothing, nothing. Look at their faces from the just look at the still shots from their faces from trial. There's not a single photo where it looks like they care about anything. They just look like I do at a sports event. Yeah. I would rather be anywhere than here. This is boring. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:43
Speaker
Like, I would love faith. Grab your earpods, Ezra. We've got a puppy. Yes, I have a puppy. And it's thrown outside with us. It is because we're not doing anything of important. No, but here's Ezra eating face air pods. Sorry, babe. No, I just. I don't know. I guess I could have been a lawyer maybe and just tried to see through the bullshit, but
01:05:13
Speaker
Every case that I look at like this, and that includes the the Shannon Christiansen and Chris Newsom, where these people are sitting there telling their stories in their so-called sobbing. And I'm like, I don't look like that when I sob when I'm crying about something doing this ugly. Right. Call them out. Are you done with the theatrics? This isn't a drama class. I see that you're crying, but I see no tears. I see that you're pretending to cry for sympathy. Yeah. Yeah. Let's move on.
01:05:44
Speaker
Wow. What a bunch. And you know what? I thought this was going to be unsolved. I'm going to tell you what I anticipated. I can't I can't believe that there were two other guys over the age of 18 that could overpower a 14 year old. I was going to say that's crazy. There are five young adults and this 14 year old was just Hercules. Apparently.
01:06:10
Speaker
No, they were all pieces of absolute total waste of space. And I like I said in the Shannon Christians and Chris Newsom case, I think they all partook. I think they all had their turn. Yep. And when push came to shove. Yeah. They threw one guy under the bus and that's what they do. That's why they brought the 14 year old. Yep. They knew what they were planning on doing. They knew they were. They went for the sole intent. They might have wanted to end up. But they had this plan.
01:06:41
Speaker
like they knew what they I don't think I don't think it was planned to the T. I think a lot of it was flying by the seat of my pants. But I think I wanted to hurt someone times called for desperate measures measures on their way to Mexico. They're sitting here thinking. Well, you can't get the death penalty if you're a youth, right? But the thing is, is they didn't have any reason to carry this family. Correct. But Karen and Jason got the least deal. Well, I mean, everybody ended up with life imprisonment.
01:07:10
Speaker
And it's like a huge deal that this 14 and 17 year old that were underage at the time, you know, wound up with such severe consequences. But they did severe action. Correct. I don't care what age you are. If you want to play with adult crime, you should pay adult penalties. Right. A hundred percent. And
01:07:35
Speaker
When they decided they were going to take off, it was actually Jason's dad. Yeah, because Jason's dad knew like he was involved. Right. The 14 year old, the 14 year olds. And he actually wanted them to send out a bolo because he took off. And that wasn't done because why don't know. Back to you. No, that was Kentucky, Tennessee.
01:08:02
Speaker
But they were pulled over for speeding in Virginia. And it wasn't he wasn't checked. Even though the dad called and said. My son has issues. He's gone. Yeah, bring him home. He's on probation like. Yeah. And so like, guys, I'm sorry, but it's not all about like you can't just blame parents for kids stupid choices.
01:08:31
Speaker
No, like it's not always bad parenting. Now, I'm not saying that some kids don't grow up in an absolute crapshoot. You feel bad for the child and what they live through. It doesn't excuse the behavior when they decide to lash out and and do these kind of things. Yeah.
01:08:49
Speaker
Because I mean, quite frankly, a lot of the, a lot of the cases we talk about, they have horrific childhoods and my heart breaks for what they had to live through. And sometimes, you know what, just to be honest with you, I can understand what, where they ended up, especially when they've got like a specific type, you know, they were abused by their mother or their grandparent and they're after.
01:09:11
Speaker
mothers or grandma, like I get the correlation a lot of times, like, of course they hate that type of person. It doesn't make it right. But I can understand it sometimes. Well, like I mean, no, I'm not even going to say I understand it. Like I could understand if you were. You know, molested by a certain type of guy. Yeah. Right. Like it was your uncle and you don't ever you just don't want to have relations with a lot of men. Yeah. OK.
01:09:38
Speaker
that doesn't mean I'm gonna go on a killing spree and kill everyone that looks like him correct okay or you know my mom used to throw me into a closet and right starve me and so I'm gonna kill every woman that looks like my mother but not my
01:09:53
Speaker
Yeah, I know it's not it's not it's not in sync. It's not it's not the same like I I'm not saying like I support their decision like I can see the psychology behind it like I understand how they got there Yeah, you know what I mean? No, I don't I really don't because only only because again Yeah, they did some really crappy things to you they didn't kill you. So what are you mimicking?
01:10:18
Speaker
You're lashing out in anger. Well, of course you're going to lash out in anger. Is it? It doesn't make it right, but that's they had some kind of psychotic break in my mind and they've latched onto this one and they mutilation, torture, all that kind of stuff. That's not normal.
01:10:33
Speaker
No, none of it. I can't justify it. I don't care. It's not normal to get mad because someone hurt you and go on a killing spree. Yeah. You know, it's normal when someone hurts your feelings to cry, get mad, go home and move on to your spouse a little bit because you've had a bad day or really vent. Yeah. Like that's what that's a normal coping mechanism. Go home and have you a glass of wine.
01:10:59
Speaker
Go to the gym and hit the feedback. Do something. You know what's not normal? Abducting a family who said, here's my wallet, here's my keys. Go. And mutilating, torturing, and murdering them and letting the mom bleed out slowly as her children die beside her.
01:11:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's not normal. That's not a good coping mechanism. No, you fail. But it's not for anybody like no more like any any of these other like sociopathic people like you go from I had a bad childhood to raping, maiming, mutilating and torturing people is not an idiot. Like, don't don't sit here. Yeah. Don't sit here and tell me like that. That's a mental. Oh, he has a mental illness. Well, duh.
01:11:43
Speaker
Oh, let's throw away the key. Exactly. He doesn't need to be back out in polite society. So don't sit here and be like, oh, he was temporarily insane. And so we're just going to put him in a mental situation. No, no, no. He's Wylie as a fox. That's why he got away with it for so long and had so many victims. And he's a bad he's a bad seed. Yeah. And I'm going to be like real like if you're crazy enough to do it, you're crazy enough to die.
01:12:10
Speaker
Yeah. OK. Like some people fully, truly 110 percent cannot control their body. OK. You look at people with Tourette's and you look at people with cerebral palsy and M.S., they physically can't control their body. Yeah.
01:12:26
Speaker
Okay. These people are talking about the mind. Yeah. Okay. And if your mind is that sadistic and that crazy and you can't get a hold of yourself, you don't belong in society. You belong in the bottom of the ocean. Okay. I didn't say that. I did. But I'm just saying, you know what I mean? Like, no, I hundred percent.
Facilities for Mental Disabilities vs. Criminals
01:12:47
Speaker
We talk about all these random disabilities that people have. And then when it comes to like the brain, we're willing to
01:12:55
Speaker
Like, OK, oh. I'm going to get on my soapbox. All right. Which one? So we have a lot of facilities all over the United States and probably all over. All of the civilizations that care for people that are mentally unstable.
01:13:14
Speaker
OK, rapists, serial killers, crazy, crazy, like batshit, whatever. OK, yes. How many places do you see in just general areas for people with mentally mental retardation or Down syndrome or autism or any of the other spectrums that are out there? Not many.
01:13:36
Speaker
It's well, OK, I'm going to argue that point. Well, I'm sorry. There are like they have them. I know there are a lot. They have them, but they're like orphanages. You don't know where they are. You don't know where to find them. And good luck paying the bill. Yep. There's there are some locally as my my nephew in Chattanooga lives in a group home for.
01:13:57
Speaker
for mentally handicapped. That's a group home when you're older. It's kind of like an assisted living type of sitch. But it's not a well-known huge thing. There's my old house in Johnson City, right up the street. There was that big huge brick complex and that's what it was. It was a daycare and it was a place where people that had mental handicaps would go
01:14:26
Speaker
for counseling. Those are like nonprofit. Yeah, but it's not. I'm not talking about government funded. These people get to live a life. Yeah.
01:14:35
Speaker
after mutilating people. No, they should know. Okay. That's different than people with mental handicaps. Yeah. These are people who are completely innocent, but struggle. Family members may not physically be able to take care of them. Yeah. We don't get help for that, but you know, no, we're going to open up cell block after cell block after facility after facility for people who don't belong here anymore, who make bad decisions and hurt those around them.
Family's Challenges in Disability Care
01:15:02
Speaker
So box done. I'm out. Everyone can hate me for everything that I just said. I was going to say just to add a little touch of it was about a year ago that, you know, your family got custody of your aunt who does have a mental handicap and physical. And it's hard. And you guys have tried to get help. And there is no there's none. Nobody will help because she's got the mental. And let me just tell you, there is a waiting list the size of my entire body.
01:15:29
Speaker
Long list. OK. And you didn't even react. Guys, I'm five to.
01:15:38
Speaker
And also five to what? No. That is a lie. That is not true. I'm so sorry for blowing up. All right. I think this is the point where we're done being serious.
Good vs. Bad in Human Nature
01:15:53
Speaker
That is why Lisa is so passionate about that. They have tried to get help. They can't get help. And it's just, you know.
01:15:59
Speaker
It's a lot like it's a lot of these weird like sycophants get whatever they need. Yeah. Why is your why is your puppy wearing a WWE belt around its center? Well, I'm going to go with faith. It was great talking to you tonight. We should probably wrap it up now. I don't know what my kids doing with my dog right now. It's his dog. Yeah, the dog. He doesn't let out her feet. Yeah. Anyways, that's a different subject subject for a different night, Caleb.
01:16:30
Speaker
Well, anyway, I would not say I hope you enjoyed the story because it was terrific. No. Pissed me off. Yeah, we're going to. We'll post photos and we'll post some links on our Instagram and y'all please. It tells us
Resilience and Kindness Amidst Hardships
01:16:43
Speaker
or Potter. Please go listen to Peter. Please go listen to Peter's when we post it is like he's just delightful.
01:16:51
Speaker
OK, like that's the only way that I can explain it like, yeah, still dealing with a lot of circumstances. He's just delightful. Now that people like that and that and Lisa McVeigh just honestly. How are there people that are so good? And then people that are so bad like. You know what I mean? Like you've got the in all in a lot of these stores, you have the worst of the worst.
01:17:20
Speaker
And the best of the best. And people who are so good, they're not even believable.
Healing Through Letting Go
01:17:24
Speaker
Yeah. Like you've got to be kicking puppies behind our backs. There's something glaring. Something's wrong with you. There's got to be something because I can't suck that back. Well, I mean, you know, yeah, I was going to say not everybody always has to have vengeance. You know, some people just let it go.
01:17:40
Speaker
It's whatever, however you, if you can do that and you're that good, by all means. It's like the, it's like the school bus one, that guy that went in for the, he said it wasn't for them that I forgave those three people. I needed to let it go to heal. And that's how he healed.
01:17:58
Speaker
You can't carry crap like that, man. There's bitterness and anger and resentment. It kills the person it's stored in. They don't give a crap. Obviously, these six monsters don't care what your opinion of them is. No, the only thing they can think of is how can I get out of prison if I fake cry? You deserve.
Peter's Visits and Survival Story
01:18:15
Speaker
Guess what? They're losing no sleep while you are marinating in. Peter's living his best life. Yeah, he is married.
01:18:23
Speaker
It's got the whole nine, you know, and you know what? He doesn't not even afraid to come back. Like he grew up in Sweden and moved back to the US. And he comes down here every year or every once in a while and visits the people that help him, that helped him do the whole thing. And again, this is one of the reasons you need to go watch the interview is he was talking about the amount of people
01:18:46
Speaker
that helped him not just in like the Knoxville, Tennessee area, but just people because this was national news. It's a two year old who survived a brutal murder. Yeah, but he just was and was run over by a car. I had a friend run over my foot once in his Beamer in high school, and I legitimately. Thought I was going to pass out. Yeah, it was the worst thing ever.
01:19:11
Speaker
It hurts. So if I stub my toe, I need an epidural. I have no pain tolerance, but it hurt. And that was one wheel and my like the biggest meatiest part of my Fred Flintstone feet. Yeah. A two year old body getting run under after the shot. I can't imagine. But he literally said in his interview, I don't remember a thing, which thank God for that.
Peter's Social Media Charm and Conclusion
01:19:34
Speaker
I was just going to say thank God for that. Well,
01:19:37
Speaker
Anyways, guys, I love you. Sorry for my crazy story. Go watch Peter like Peter. He's got he's got a pretty good Instagram following and good social media footprint as I was looking because I wanted to see what he looked like. Cute as a button. He is cute as a button, but he's cute as a button. Right. And he has a cool accent. I love that. I do have accents, a good accent for a lot. So well, guys,
01:20:05
Speaker
I inhaled too much air again, dried my throat out. Sorry about that. That's cool. Yep. We are going to go and hope you guys have a great night and we will talk at you again soon. Very soon. Bye. Bye.