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Klute (1971) with Kolleen Carney Hoepfner
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We're kicking off Noirvember with the alluring thriller that got Jane Fonda her academy award. Kolleen joins Doug to answer such questions as: Is Donald Sutherland the hottest man alive? Should someone concerned about stalkers live in an apartment with an open roof? And more!
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Transcript
Humorous Discussion on Names and Movies
00:00:30
Speaker
All right. Welcome to These Guys Got Juice. I'm Doug Davenport and I'm here with Colleen Carney and we're here talking Alan Kula's,
00:00:42
Speaker
I almost wanted to say Pacula. Like I, I'm so dumb that when I saw the name before I heard it said, I was like, oh, it was like drug Dracula. and And that would have been seasonally appropriate. But all is right that would be his like Twitter handle.
00:00:59
Speaker
Catlin Dracula. He would love Twitter. We would love Twitter.
Exploring 'Clute' and Personal Connections
00:01:02
Speaker
we're talking Clute, Viola Davis' favorite movie. Clute.
00:01:08
Speaker
so we're so we're talking clue philla davis's favorite movie I mean, it's one of my favorites. i I know it's one of your favorites. That's why i asked you to to come on. But ah what what's what's your relation to this movie? Why is this movie so special to you?
00:01:27
Speaker
you know, it's funny because this is kind of a newer movie to me. um This is not a movie that i you know, it's not like Fight Club or something where, you know, I've loved it for like the past 25 years or whatever. like a foundational text.
00:01:41
Speaker
Yeah, no, and and it's not. It's not at all, but, like, the minute I saw it, like... it just like spoke to me on such like a deep level that I became immediately obsessed with it. And it's like my entire persona.
00:01:54
Speaker
Um, I first saw it last year, 2024. twenty twenty four Um, I go every Monday, I go to a movie series called cinematic void here in Los Angeles, put on by Jim Brans, um, through the American cinema tech.
00:02:11
Speaker
And he did um, um He did a month of, I forget what month it was, but it was like paranoia. So it was like movies where people, and you know, think something is someone's king stalking them. Or like we had... on um ah The Manchurian Candidate and like the ninth configuration. It was a really cool month.
00:02:36
Speaker
I'm going to apologize to your listeners in advance because my landlord decided that this was the week they were going to do the roof without telling us. So if you hear a yin and cloning out without notice, that's crazy.
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I was just going to tell people that it was like ghosts. It like youre they might be ghosts. it It could be ghosts doing work on your roof. like sometimes like like that's That's their unfinished business. like yeah on We died. There were so many leaks.
00:03:06
Speaker
um So anyway, so Jim did this series, and and it was all like paranoia movies, and he did flutes.
Personal Experiences and Influence of 'Clute'
00:03:13
Speaker
and And I was like, oh, I've never seen Clued. Love Jane Fonda.
00:03:19
Speaker
a Jane Fonda fan. Absolutely love Donald Sutherland. So I was like, so was one of those movies that it was like, how did this one pass me by? like yeah, like, this seems right. It was like how I never saw Possession until like 2017.
00:03:36
Speaker
And my friend was like, what? Like, that's so so up your alley. So, so we, you know, so I went to see it and I went with my friend Alex, who at the time was living here in Burbank with me.
00:03:48
Speaker
Not with me, but, you know, down the street. And we were going to these movies like a lot together. She, she, That's sense move. And I don't know. It was just it's just so riveting to begin with. It's just like it filmed interestingly, like, you know, it starts with like the in the middle of this like dinner party and then immediately cuts to like six months later. And it's like it's so strange. And well, then those opening titles, too, of like when you're hearing the tape and it's just like this black void. It's just like immediately mesmerizing.
00:04:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, for people who haven't seen it, it opens like on a old timey like a phone recording device. And it's just Jane Fonda's character. Her name is Brie talking, obviously, to a client very like scandalously. She's a she's a prostitute.
00:04:41
Speaker
and Or she's a high-end call girl is what I guess you should say. Right. ah And then it just like cuts off the actual action. but um It was just something about it. ah Jane Fonda is always fantastic to me.
00:04:55
Speaker
But then also just like
00:04:59
Speaker
Just ah how how quiet and tender Donald Sutherland is and how brash and and like sort of defensive ah Jane Fonda's character Bree is right off the bat. it's it It just really spoke to me. And by the end of the movie, I was literally sobbing.
00:05:18
Speaker
yeah and ah And I was just could not like contain this like large amount of oh grief, but also tenderness that this movie instilled upon me. And I was just like a fucking wreck when I left.
00:05:34
Speaker
And I went home and I was like, okay, I'm going to watch that four more times. And then I bought a Criterion. got a poster. like I got all in on Clute. Lots of Clute stock.
00:05:47
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I was like, yeah, I created a crypto coin. clue coin. flu But like with
Themes and Characters in 'Clute'
00:05:54
Speaker
with a dollar sign replacing the U. some of you Like, I don't know. I don't know. just, it really, really, it spoke to me so much that, um you you know this, and and people who are listening probably do not, but I spent the last almost two years writing a novel.
00:06:12
Speaker
And in this novel, my main character does pretty much everything I do. So she goes to the movies on Mondays. and And she even goes and sees this movie and has this profound sort of like emotional experience about it. I love that.
00:06:28
Speaker
It was my like cute way of putting Jim Branscombe into my book. Like... this character like calms her down and it's very sweet and I was like this is silly but I put you in my book it's like this is so nice but uh but yeah I don't know there's just something about it and just film wise just so like um I'm rambling and I apologize no no this this is the place to get ramble and yeah I mean yeah yeah I mean, did you see Jason Bateman's Criterion picks the other day? he pick Clute? picked Clute.
00:07:03
Speaker
and And here's the thing, too. I don't like Jason Bateman all that much. He creeps me out. think he's harboring a dark secret. Yeah. He just seems like someone who, is like, when he dies, they'll be like, oh, he thumps thy body in the tracks.
00:07:19
Speaker
Yeah. but ah But he had so much, like, I actually had a lot of risk respect for him because he picked Clute and was, like, you know, the um this director works with the shadows and the sort of, like, the darkness is around it all. And it's so important. and And he really does. like Like, there's just so much...
00:07:37
Speaker
happening off screen and and that paranoia level does because you know like is someone stalking three or is she just afraid of the dark and and like you know she's a call girl so she's obviously opening herself up to violence and right and you know like is someone really looking through her roof i mean yeah it's not a spoiler to say yes someone is but like don't know just vote just like there's these amazing scenes like through her are like Her ceiling has a window.
00:08:06
Speaker
It's an apartment I would literally never live in. Like, I'm just like, it's dark. It's great cinematically, but she's very bolder. There's like all these entry points. are right And it's like, okay, but like you have a window on your ceiling.
00:08:23
Speaker
So like, that's scary. Like, what are you doing? Move. So anyway. So um it just really struck me. I watch it even now a couple times a week, even in just like kind of like a comfort thing. Like it's on the background while I'm doing something else.
00:08:39
Speaker
It is a cozy because even though you do feel that paranoia and it does did. I also had a similar experience first time I watched it of like not expecting it to be ah as as emotional as it because it's like, you know, like I kind of went in like, OK, this is going to be like a 70s version of like.
00:08:58
Speaker
that kind of noir story. But like some of those, especially like the older ones, like they kind of keep you at arm's length, like, but they're like a little icier, you know, and like there are icy closed off people in this, but that's like, that's the first layer. And then, cause it's like, yeah, like Bree has defenses. And then when she welcomed the people that she can't help, but start caring about that, it's like, no, you too are also brought in and start caring. You're like, oh wow. I, now I'm fully invested emotionally in this.
00:09:29
Speaker
I've been saying for a couple years that I really want to write. i used to write all the time these essays and stuff. I used to write for both movie staff. and And I kind of have fallen out of like pop culture writing ah in ah in lieu of editing. So, you know, like I will do copy editing for like Van Gogh or whatever. But I have said ah numerous times that I want to write an essay ah about writing.
00:09:55
Speaker
how tenderly Donald Sutherland places his hands Bree's body. like Like, not even in a sexual way.
00:10:08
Speaker
But there's just, there's this, he's got, I mean, it's Donald Sutherland, so he's a 912 feet tall, and his hands are like the size of my face. And there is this beautiful scene where he is at her apartment and she's realized he's been recording her her phone calls because he's trying to find his missing friend. He's like an undercover cop.
00:10:29
Speaker
Trying to find his missing friend who they think might be stalking free. and And she's had like... Yeah, there was like a letter they found and they're like, this letter is so obscene. Like they really... And she...
00:10:42
Speaker
Yeah, and she had said, like, she had been picked up for for soliciting, and she had said that she thought someone was, like, stalking her.
Societal and Psychological Themes in 'Clute'
00:10:50
Speaker
And, like, her whole thing is, like, she's trying to get out of that scene, but, like, can't. and And I do love, like, you know, like, the things we do to survive. And, unfortunately, sometimes the things we do with our bodies that to survive and and, you know, to market ourselves. trying to be an actress, which is just, like, a different type of, like, solicitation or whatever. but Right. It's kind like a parallel. It, like,
00:11:13
Speaker
ah society deems that as more noble but like isn't that the same the thing because like she's a storyteller you know like that she's creating like ah a narrative and a vibe for her Johns and it's like for her clients like she said for a therapist she's the best actress in the world when she's with Yes.
00:11:32
Speaker
I love that therapist, too, because I'm almost completely convinced they filmed all of her scenes at the same time, even though it's like over multiple days. And she's like always kind of like quarter turns. Like, I'm like, who is she facing our room? Like, it it's a very weird framing, the way she's sitting.
00:11:50
Speaker
And she also kind of looks like Donald Trump's mother. Yeah. It's like really charming. Like, I don't know. There's just like, I'm like, she's so strange. But, um but ah there's that awesome scene where Brie is with the, the old like fashion industry guy. And, and he like never even like has sex with her.
00:12:12
Speaker
She just like strip teases in front of him and like tells him a story about like picking up somebody in France or what. Like, so she's just like elaborate. sort of storyteller for her clientele that doesn't sometimes even involve like like actual sex it's just like just yeah selling a story right so she's trying to make it as like an actress or a model and there's an amazing scene where she like goes and like they look at her hands they're like no ah like too ethnic or like whatever it's like very like zappid and it's it's really interesting there's a lot going on but
00:12:46
Speaker
um But so there's this scene where, and you know, Clute, Donald Sutherland, is in her apartment and she's trying to seduce him so he'll give her her tapes back.
00:12:59
Speaker
Right. and and And they're kind of like... sort of fighting, sort of not fighting. that She's very abrasive. And and she you know starts kind of aggressively hitting on him. And she's like, oh, you a nice mouth.
00:13:10
Speaker
and And there's this moment, he she starts to undress, and he's like, please don't do that. And there's this moment where you see his hands kind of like envelop her back very gently.
00:13:21
Speaker
and and she's like, yeah. And then he's like, someone is on your roof. Just like someone's on my roof right now. Yeah. i don't know well yeah parallel maybe but yeah but um and then because when you see that shot initially you don't know that it's like a pov shot like looking down and you're like oh fuck like this is someone watching them well someone is like watching this happen right and it's supposed to be like maybe it's his like best friend who's missing like that's fucked up right right and like
00:13:52
Speaker
He like gently moves her to the bed, puts her sitting down and places with his hand on her head for a moment, almost like you would a child.
00:14:04
Speaker
And it's like, just stay here and go check it out. And it fills me with such a grief. of i don't know I don't know why it fills me with grief of all things.
00:14:17
Speaker
But like it just fills me with this absolute feeling of devastation because he's so gentle with her and she's like very clearly not had anyone be like that.
00:14:30
Speaker
Right. Whereas a lot of the movie is her eventually kind of falling for him and not wanting to and then being like, no, i'm going to go with with my by former pimp, Roy Scheider, who's like so tan.
00:14:43
Speaker
oh Yeah. yeah I mean, he's in ultimate grease bag. It was a slime ball mode. Like, I... like I always love seeing him, but like, he seeing him in this specific book, because there's usually like an inherent like ability to him, even when he is playing like kind of nasty characters. But in this, like he kind of like takes that all away. He's like, oh, I'm just always thinking of Jaws.
00:15:05
Speaker
Right. yeah Yeah. Just thinking of like the nice sheep who like has the hot wife always wants to bone and like the two kids that love him. and And then like you just see him. He's like all coked
Cultural Context and Storytelling in 'Clute'
00:15:15
Speaker
out. And he's like, looks like a ah suitcase because he's so tan.
00:15:19
Speaker
And he's like, she's coming with me now. And it's like, oh, my God. Like, it's so funny. And then, um oh, my God, I just saw him in Jim. See, I love Jim because he shows these things I'd never have watched.
00:15:31
Speaker
I think I would have ever watched. Maybe I would have stumbled upon Clute eventually. Right. I'd say I would have. But, like, you know, he did, like, 52 Pickup over the summer.
00:15:42
Speaker
I've never seen that movie before. Awesomenessly movie. Roy Schoen. Oh, I've seen that. Oh my God, you've got that on the list. Add it to the list. You would love it Yeah.
00:15:54
Speaker
You need some more California. and that's oh Yeah. movies are I mean, I, yeah, basically do. I have so much FOMO when I see people posting about all the stuff they get to see out there. And I'm just like, okay, well, hopefully it gets a wider release or something. But not even just for new releases. Like, just like, yeah, just like cool screenings like that. Like, yeah, not maybe here maybe in the city. Sometimes that happens, but it's not as.
00:16:18
Speaker
so afraid I forget. Are you in New York? No, no. I mean, I'm in the southern suburbs right now, but like, I'm just outside Chicago. Oh, Chicago. That's right. That's don't know why I thought New York. I mentioned my brother lives in New York, so maybe that's why. Oh, you know, that might be it. I think we did talk about that before. My brother is out in Massachusetts, about 20 minutes north of Boston is where I'm from originally.
00:16:41
Speaker
And he is not overly jealous about me living here. um He loves his life in Massachusetts, and I get it. But he said the only thing that he really feels jealous about is that I'm always going to, like,
00:16:53
Speaker
Some old movie. So like if he wanted to go see, you know, some repertory screening of Robocop, he'd have to go to like the Brattle or like in Boston, he'd have to go into Boston, which i mean, he works in Boston. So just stay. But he's not going to do that.
00:17:07
Speaker
But like, you know, he'd have to go to that or like the Coolidge. um ah My friend Mark runs the Midnight Stop at the Coolidge. Very cool stuff. But, like, that's what I used to have to do to see a movie. Like, I'd have to go into Boston to see some kind of indie movie.
00:17:22
Speaker
Like, I remember having to drive there for Chuck and Buck. Or, like, some mandatory screening. Yeah, it's usually the music box for me. It's like, that's the theater in Chicago that has that that kind of thing. But, yeah. i So I'll pick with music box, and I'll tell you about it off.
00:17:37
Speaker
Oh, okay. All right. Only because I'm legally not allowed to talk. okay. So this was like juicy then. ah but It's little juicy. It's not their fault, but I'll tell you later. But yeah, that that would be your probably best bet would be going to the music
Personal Influence and Symbolism of 'Clute'
00:17:53
Speaker
box for that.
00:17:53
Speaker
But um he does say, like, he's like, you're always going to see like Terminator. but i want to see Terminator in the theater. And I'm at IG in California. don't know what to tell you. I mean, yeah, I guess i I have no other option at this point. I guess I got to.
00:18:08
Speaker
We've got to go into town. ah But yeah, so um it just struck me. That's all it is there is to it. It just struck me. And it's just so, it's so tense. Even I've seen it that I probably know by heart at this point.
00:18:22
Speaker
And it's just so tense. And you're just like, And then, of course, like, you know, like, you're like, Bree, stop being an asshole. Like, this man loves you.
00:18:34
Speaker
like Well, there's a tension of a that, of her not wanting to that open up to him. And that, you know, like what she says to her therapist, like, i i why do I have this tendency to, like, to, you know, destroy this? To, like, you know, like, this is something good for me. But I want and like, that's so real. it's real.
00:18:54
Speaker
but That's just like a human being. It made me think of I had seen, I mean, I've taken a couple psychology class, whatever, but like actually when I what i saw ah Dangerous Method, the Cronenberg movie, like actually like when they dive into like the ah the death drive, you know, like that that's like the the human ah inclination towards the stress of destruction. Right. why you Why did every... hurry i Every living thing that well so big they like that goes the logic of like, no, you're supposed to like preserve yourself, self-represent, all those things. Like, so why are we always trying to destroy ourselves?
00:19:28
Speaker
It's, you know, interesting. And I just identify with her so much as someone who, like, spent the majority of my life trying to destroy myself. And sometimes still do. You know what mean? I do slip into those sort of.
00:19:40
Speaker
You can microdose it. Episodes of just self-crushing. But, like, you know, like i like, I had drug issues growing up. I was anorexic for 14 years. Like, I had the slew of bad boyfriends that, you know, one of them ultimately tried to kill me. So it's just like.
00:19:55
Speaker
You know, like, I get it. And then, like, you meet someone that, like, cares about you. And you're like, what? No. What's that all about? Because it's a different family. New stuff is scary. but you so like When are you going to pull the rug out from under me?
00:20:09
Speaker
Right. You know what I mean? Like, you want me to trust you and, you know, like, love you. But, like, my experience is the minute I do that, you're going to, like,
00:20:21
Speaker
just do something but horrible to me. So, so why don't i beat you like at the punch? Right. Right. Just sort protect myself from getting hurt. Yeah. And then she's even like, even at the end, which is so sweet. Like, I love that ending, but like, it's got the voiceover her talking to the therapist and she's like, I'll probably be back that sweet or whatever.
00:20:42
Speaker
But it's like when she's trying to move on with him and it's so lovely. But like that scene. So there's so this is like so spoiler heavy. I'm so sorry. Like, oh, oh I don't I don't i mean, this is like a 50 year old movie. Like if ah ah yeah I learned from 1971, 10 years before I was born. yeah if If you haven't seen Clue, go watch it, please. It's on it's on Criterion. If you don't have a criteria thing, I'll.
00:21:07
Speaker
You don't have a criterion. Yeah, yeah. Pause it. Forget what you just heard about the spoilers. Although, like, I feel like it's like the experience, like, we could say what happens in it, but, like, it's something that has to be. I'm doing any justice.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, because it's like, it's not, it's more than just whatever various plot points or scenes. It's the, like, vibe and emotions behind it. Because it is, like, a lot less...
00:21:32
Speaker
like Compared to other noirs, which sometimes i have to watch multiple times just to know like what happened. like If I'm watching an older one, like The Big Sleep, I'm like, so like wait wait, what was the the thing again? but But this, it's like kind of straightforward in terms of like what the angle is on like his missing friend and then the the the business associate. But it's like it it's presented in kind of an obfuscated, dream-like way, and twisty, the way it unwinds. and Because it's more focused on the psychological and emotional,
00:22:02
Speaker
like the ramifications of this because it's also i mean i this is 100% Bree's story but it you do see the like transformation of Clute himself because he's like you know a small town guy so like yeah this is this is all new and scary for him and out of his element to the even be yeah he's like like diving into the deep sort of world of like New York City prostitution yeah and and and like pink and like
00:22:33
Speaker
not kink, like, yeah and, like, abuse, like, being, being, like, kind of, uh, pouched in like a kink. She's just like, oh, yeah, man, you can hurt me. It's cool. I like that. Right. But it's like, no, like this guy almost killed me once.
00:22:47
Speaker
Right. And it's like, but um but like he's so out of his. ah I love that like scene in her part. Oh, and she's like, well, what do you like? You like getting stepped on or whatever? She's like, are you a button freak? And I'm like, I don't even know what that is. And I've looked it up.
00:23:01
Speaker
And it's so funny because like all you'll get all these forum posts that are like, what's a button freak? like What is it? so Someone, event it there's no answer, but someone eventually was like, there are people who like get in into like the intricacies of like dressing and undressing someone.
00:23:18
Speaker
So maybe something like, you know, little level timing corsets that have like so many, but like something like that. And I'm like, I guess, but then like, I also think of like for the time it's 1971.
00:23:30
Speaker
So I think of like button button who's got the button, which is like when you put acid in one of the drinks and someone, you know, like no one knows who has it. Like it's a thing. back and So it's like, is that it? Like, I don't know. no Maybe you drink that and then you unzip someone. you like You're combining stuff. But the most important thing is, if I don't know, Kloot definitely doesn't. He definitely doesn't. He seems like someone who doesn't even... He seems like he has compared to like a lot of other... but Noir detectives are usually like pretty jaded and cynical.
00:24:01
Speaker
And he seems like someone who was like it had probably previously a pretty black and white view of the world. of like you know like people There's people who do good stuff and then there's like the bad people...
00:24:11
Speaker
And it's not it's it's not there's not like an intermingling of that within all of us are upset. Like the idea of like obsessive or compulsive behaviors is probably like something that he's never even like intellectualized where it's like like all this fetish stuff. Yeah. i Like there's that scene where like.
00:24:32
Speaker
people These roofing people i'm gonna have an i'm swear to that i'm going to have an aneurysm by the end of the week if they don't stop. Anyway, there's that scene where, like, she ultimately, like, comes down and is like, I'm scared. And he's like, you can sleep. And it's so funny because, again, Donald Sutherland is, like, 75 feet tall. and And he's in this, like in like, not even a studio apartment. It's, like, a bachelor. So it's just a room with a bed. And, like no like, he has to, like, go take a shower in the hallway somewhere or something.
00:25:02
Speaker
um My friend lived in The Bachelor for a while, and I was like, I didn't even realize apartments like this were real. Like, i thought that was just a made-up thing for TV. but um But, and he's like, you can take the bed, and he's on this, like, roll-out thing that's, like, clearly for, like, a third grader. that's So cute. Like, Peter hanging off, which gets, like, a laugh when it's in the theater. people Yeah. But, like, they she ultimately, like, seduces him.
00:25:27
Speaker
And then she's so... mean about it and it and and like he was so trusting you know again with the gentle hands and i'm watching it and i'm like want to die inside and then she's like huh knew it you're just a scumbag dude and you didn't even make me come yeah it's like john so normal it don't even make me come so don't worry about it like just talking about john and it's like so like don't be mean to Clue.
00:25:55
Speaker
He's trying to help so but then yeah you. know But then you can kind of compare that to the scene where they're at like the farmer's market and it's just like they're like a real couple for a second.
00:26:06
Speaker
It's just so like... love school east is on yeah but But because of that it's just the interesting power dynamic because like the the little bit of interviews that I was browsing some of the criteria and special features in called him paul again puku pikulla the was was, you know, exploring the the the power dynamics of not just between like prostitutes and their and in and sex, but just like men and women in general and like that vying for control
00:26:40
Speaker
and using using sex in in that. So it's like, that's what Bree has like that at her disposal to assert control over her world. So like that that's like even someone who seems... Like like you said, like she's waiting for the other shoe to drop. like Yeah, he see he he he's been nothing but... Well, he he is nice and tender with her, but he is also using her as bait. like like There is a yeah like a kind of a mutual...
00:27:08
Speaker
a mutual distrust and a mutual like back and forth of like, who's using who here, who is holding the, the the power. Cause yeah, he's a doughy eyed and innocent little, you know, ah country boy, but, uh, he came here for a purpose and he will go into mission mode when he has to. I mean, yeah, he was like following her and stuff, you know? So like he, that's what he said he was hardly buddy her phone. Like it's just rude. Yeah. they But yeah, like he is still a cop, unfortunately.
00:27:41
Speaker
Yeah, ACAB includes Clute. And it's just so funny, too, that the movie's called Clute, and it's like, he's not even the main character. a very common complaint with the movie, but they did read that they said that they didn't want to call it Brie because they didn't want people to think of cheese.
00:28:01
Speaker
Like, they were like, want it. And it was like... Like, come on. Like, her name, you didn't have to call it Bree, either. You could have called it yeah literally anything.
00:28:12
Speaker
But, like, Clute is a good name. It's a cool word. It is a good name. But, like, when you find out his name is Clute, it's like, but he's like. It's not about but him. Yeah. mean. I love it.
00:28:24
Speaker
yeah i mean and but Yeah, it's interesting because I think the movie also draws comparison between Clute and ah wow what's the name of the guy who's ultimately not caged? Like the guy who like hires him and that easy he's waiting for it.
00:28:43
Speaker
I'll look it up real quick while we're talking, but I'm the almost positive that is what it is. But it's funny when they're doing like, there's there's multiple scenes where they kind of like draw, like even though like, yeah, Cage is definitely ah obviously on a whole different level. But like the fact that like the thing is called Cable Cage. Cable Cage. Cable, yeah.
00:29:02
Speaker
Shadows of Tioffi, or Tioffi, don't know how to say his name. he's He's great in this, especially like the extended like monologue he gets at that the end. Like he's so scary.
00:29:14
Speaker
But the thing that's scary about him is that it's a very – he's not like – it's not like an abstract villain where you're like, oh, this guy is – I can't even – he's together with – what's driving this this guy it's it's i mean maybe he has trouble parsing like what's what's driving him it's that own like self-denial of his own desires and impulses is what has caused him to do all these like dark things it's like he can't he has that where he says it's like it's like there's there's uh dark corners of a person that no one should know about that they like you should that that
00:29:51
Speaker
a v he's talking about it like being discovered by Koot's friend but also I think like to himself he's like i the fact that you know like you you whores made me see these things about myself is bad but how dare you Like, I shouldn't even need to know about this darkness in me. That's fucked up.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because it, like, has that. There's, like, this kind of delicate. Because you see this conversation a lot, too, nowadays in terms of kink and, like, more violent type sex stuff, which is, like, what my book is completely all about.
00:30:26
Speaker
And then, like... Like, oh, like, that's not a kink thing, though. Like, that's just, like, ah you're a bad person. it's, like, approached in this, like, oh, these sex workers, like, showing me all these kinks that are, like, you know, violent and sexy. And it's like, no, you just want to hurt women. Right.
00:30:44
Speaker
Like, there's not, that's not kink. There's violence, right? So, I love, um yeah, he's great, and he's so scary and just, like, so...
00:30:57
Speaker
easily able to like lie like at the beginning he's like you've got to go find our friend and it's right but you know like it's not him and it's like you know like like you know like none of this is is legit you're just like sending him it's so funny too because when you think about it like he's sending clued on this wild goose chase and it's like He doesn't even have to do any of that.
00:31:17
Speaker
They could just be like, oh, that friend's gone. Who knows? Right. I think just like he just assumes Clute's going to hit dead ends and give up or something. I guess that's the idea. but He's like, I have to go through the emotions for appearances. like I feel like that's that's like i mean that's what drives so many in society, especially in people of stature. No, it's about appearances. like I need to look like that I'm doing all the proper things. and Well, I'm the employer, so I have to look like I'm really concerned. Like, it's just, like, so funny.
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah. And Luke's like, hey, I need money for Arlen Page's black book. And he's like, oh, okay. he He's basically, like, going into a flop sweat. His eyes are bulging out his face.
00:32:01
Speaker
You're like, what? What do you mean? I'm a little liar. Yeah. You know what scene I love? I love that scene when Clute is with the um the typewriting analysis guy.
00:32:12
Speaker
And, end you know, they're looking at the different, like, examples of people. And his sample shows up next to it, too. That's mine. And he has, like, a little giggle. he's like I just adore Donald Sallowette.
00:32:24
Speaker
like Oh, I love him. And also, he's fucking sexy. I mean, like, every this was a hot people movie. Well, it's so, yeah. this is an And then, like, it's like, oh, they have this, like, whirlwind-like romance. And they were like, you know, like...
00:32:39
Speaker
like him and Jane Fonda in real life and like they were like fighting for the Vietnam we can tell like that that chemistry is in like I love watching movies where you're like you're like oh yeah they were fucking free oh yeah they were yeah because that was like they had to over there and then because like you know like I i knew about Jane Fonda and the Vietnam stuff and I knew actually about Donald Sutherland and his anti-Vietnam stuff but I didn't realize that they had done it like didn't realize it was a crossover yeah Yeah, and but then when I watched that, there's no way they weren't actually fucking. And then I'm, watch and then i'm of course, reading about it.
00:33:10
Speaker
And then when he died, like, I'm sure you saw that anecdote about how he was so choked up years after the fact because his mom said he wasn't attractive. She was like, yeah. oh She was like, no, you're weird looking. And it, like, still just... that You didn't tell that, because that stuff stays with you, even if you were, like, a physical actor. Yeah.
00:33:31
Speaker
yeah And he was, like, you know, like, it was just eating away at him, and you could tell it. Yo, Donald, you're hot. Don't cry. i like, he was pulling fucking Jane Fonda. Yeah. Are you serious? I would...
00:33:42
Speaker
I would give my right arm to go back in time just to be like next to him. That's how hot she is. And it's just, but it's also like, you know, as a I'm a parent and I'm just like, you've got watch what you say in front of your kids. Cause that's that sticky. you still way that Like just one-off comment. probably even think anything of it.
00:34:02
Speaker
She's like, yeah, I guess he's kind of weird looking, which like, I guess he was kind of like eccentric looking, right? Like, and like his kind of big ears and stuff. It's an atypical face, even when he's like younger, like because i I think of like older man Sutherland first. So like why going back and watching some of the 70s, especially this beginning of the 70s, where it's like, it's is like more baby face, but he still has always looked like older. But I mean, yeah, yeah no, yeah, I do think Like, I kind of think of older Donald Zubo in first, too.
00:34:32
Speaker
I have this running joke with my friend Daniel because I think he kind of looks like him a little, um which is funny because he's like, actually, ah ah he gets, what's that dude's name?
00:34:46
Speaker
He's in that show where he's like the soccer coach and everyone loves it. Oh, Ted Lasso Sudeikis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, I get that I look like you since the Vegas a lot. And i'm like, you know, I can see that too, but I feel like you kind of look like a young Donald Sutherland.
00:35:00
Speaker
So for his birthday, we had been talking about the movie Virus and how it was supposed to be like they had made like toys and stuff and it was this huge flop.
00:35:12
Speaker
I think that was the movie, right? With Jimmy Lee Curtis. Yeah. yeah Like 98 or so. Right. And so I actually for his birthday this year, I found the Donald Sutherland ah characters action figure. I said, it's my birthday. And he was like, oh, my God. god Thank you so much.
00:35:30
Speaker
He's like, now i have to get them all. I'm like, ugh. was like, we can watch Virus. He's like, I don't want to. was like, okay. I think this one will inspire. Yeah, I've never seen this one. But yeah, Aragorn's one just like, they they do have this chemistry. And it's just like like, even when she's being mean to him, I'm like, stop.
00:35:50
Speaker
I love you're catching you so tenderly. ah a oh It's just so good. ah But I love that scene with the with the analysis when he's like, hey, that's mine. And the guy's like, you told me to check everybody, right? so like yeah And just like, I love any sort of like analysis stuff to like handwriting or like. Oh, I i i always love that part of of, like, investigation movies. Although, it's like, hasn't handwriting nails been largely debunked, like, in real life? Like, as a scientist? Oh, yeah, fairly debunked. And, you know, I think about that a lot because every time I write something, I write differently.
00:36:23
Speaker
Like, i yeah have certain nails. Like, I never do a lowercase R. My R's are always uppercase for some reason. and um But, like, every time I sign my name, it's completely different. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, there's there's no way to... It's a bunch, but I like that. Or or like I love how like the um ah Ted Kaczynski, Unabomber, how he like was caught because of like language forensics because he said heat because he had written something and he didn't say, have your tea cake and eat it too.
00:36:55
Speaker
had He said, eat your cake and have it too, which is what it technically is supposed to be. But everyone says it wrong. So it's become more commonplace for have your cake and eat it too.
00:37:07
Speaker
Which doesn't even make any sense, really. Right. but The original is eat your cake and have it too, which makes sense. Like you see a father, like they have like a letter or something. And his brother was like, um my brother says that all the time. And he's phrasing.
00:37:22
Speaker
And that's like how they caught him. I love that. they're goingnna They're going to catch someone for, you that like, has but specific meme speak or something. Yeah, yes yeah, yeah. This guy used Riz in a very but of a very peculiar way.
00:37:35
Speaker
Wrong. Well, all he uses is Unk this way. This has to be. What if it's, like, super specific? Like, he uses the, like, Rage Wolf meme, and that went out of style 10 years ago. it's just like, I caught you.
00:37:52
Speaker
That would be so weird. We're like this close to like a meme crime that's like 100% just a meme crime. I feel like... yeah know like that I know like they're trying to do like a... They wrote meme stuff on the bullets for like Charlie Kirk. And it's like, no, I don't think that happened actually.
00:38:09
Speaker
like well they Well, especially because they keep doing it with things, too. There was like when after a couple weeks later, there was a shooting at the ICE detention center. And they're like, yeah, it said it had anti-ICE messages on it. It's like, what was the message? No, it said anti-ICE. Yeah, it literally said anti-ICE. It's like, OK, but like um a cool person would not have written. Right. a cool like Like, I'm sorry, but be like if you're reading this, you're gay. It's so funny.
00:38:36
Speaker
like Yeah, I mean, I can buy that that's like some irony pose at the poison like online, like maybe, ah what's that... That subculture of guys. Like the droopers or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. i'm I'm going to take that idea and go with it. No, no, no. I would prefer if you didn't, like, do crimes.
00:38:57
Speaker
But, like, if someone else was. Oh, I meant right about it. I wasn't going actually do. I meant right about the movie, The Mean Crime. That is sordid.
00:39:08
Speaker
That inspires the real. and know the No, no, no. Yeah, it's a final fact, I love that. I love that scene. i also love, um it's really sad, but I love that scene when they go to like,
00:39:22
Speaker
Arlen's, I think it's Arlen's apartment. And she and her her boyfriend are like... Strung out, yeah. Completely strung out on heroin and they're waiting for their guy to come and they're like, he's not going to give us up if you're here. And they're like we just want to ask you a couple questions.
00:39:40
Speaker
And it takes them so long, I'm like, just fill the fucking with questions so she can get her dope, man. like Right. fucking everything up for them. And then like he shows up and they like and he like runs away because he doesn't know who they are. And and they're like, no, we have a radio you could have. And it's like so upsetting.
00:39:56
Speaker
And as someone who like has struggled with drug addiction and has known lots of people who have you know gone down that path and and some of them not come out of it like that scene just really breaks my heart and I love how like it just eats away at her like like she she can't even watch she has to like look away and like leave yeah and then and then she like gets out of the car and like runs away because she just can't handle like the guilt from it and stuff yeah like And Jason Cable is get like like, yes, he is caught at the end, but the he gets away with this because these are people that have been disregarded. You know, like the like the only the only one that people are looking for is Clute's fret. Like they're not looking for these girls.
00:40:37
Speaker
He don't give a shit about Harlan Page or like. like He's a prostitute. And then number two, she's a junkie. Strike two, because that's whatever at whatever he's asking around about. They're like, she's a junkie. i don't know. Like they're like, you're dismissive. Like, why would you even give a shit?
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, who cares? And it's like, who's going to believe? And that's, like, part of it, too. It's like, you know, even, like, free is getting stalked. It's like, well, who's going to care and believe? You're a sex worker, you know?
00:41:05
Speaker
Like, and and it's, like, even less... regarded back then than it is now. At least now there is like a lot more. It's not great, but there's a lot more acceptance for like sex orders and a lot more taking it seriously and stuff. But like, you know, 71 a shit.
00:41:22
Speaker
Well, that's why I was so surprised by seeing this movie from 71 where I was like, Oh, wow. There's so much so much empathy and well considered like that. This kind of character would not be rendered this way and probably even other 70s movies. Like I can't think of other examples around that time that like would have a character that is is layered in human as Jane Fonda is.
00:41:44
Speaker
Yeah, it is you know, you're right. I can't think of another one. I'm so i'm sure there's something. but i know I know there are, especially because, like, that's the time when it's like this is like the new Hollywood changeover. Like, we are getting into, like, grittier stuff. but but But it's not just like, oh, we can show these kind of lifestyles and, like, people on the fringes now. But it's specifically of, like, no, she's a human. Like, they did like this is like she's not, like – ah And I don't think the movie even ah makes this explicit, but there was a thing from Jane Fonda where she was talking about Bree's background where it's like, yeah, she's like, she's, ah she's educated. She's from, she's middle class. Like that yeah it's not, it's not like, like ah a lot of the pictures were like, oh, well she's on the, from the gutters. She had nothing and she had to crawl her way up or something. Like not that there's, that is real experience that people live through, but like that's,
00:42:34
Speaker
everyone who goes into sex work is not. That's like, you know, people come from regular back quotequote regular backgrounds to do that. Right. and Right. Yeah, you think of it as as part of like a poverty cycle or something.
00:42:47
Speaker
yeah She's like, no, she's just, don't know. She's your a typical sex worker. ah But, oh, she's great. um You know who else I love and want talk about for a second is Shirley Stoller in this movie.
00:43:00
Speaker
So she's like the one like I guess, I don't know what you would call her, but she was like the one, the one like, almost like mother hen of like, ah like, like, so Roy Scheider is like this pimp, right?
00:43:13
Speaker
Right. Or she's like, also like a pimp, like, like for like, you a house of women or whatever. And she's like, I kicked Arlen Page out because she was a shitty junkie or whatever.
00:43:23
Speaker
But she like talks to like, I threw her out because she, you know, like she talks like so high class-ish and in this business art way. She's like putting on airs and in front of her, like, is she is she she's doing written this for Clute? I'm like, no, I think this is just like her stick. He's he like o she was a lady of ill repute.
00:43:45
Speaker
And you're like, why are you talking like this? You're in the Bronx. Or whatever. Right. But what's so funny is I'm like, this woman is so familiar to me. Right. And then I realized she like pops up in Frankenhooker.
00:43:58
Speaker
She pops up in Miami blues. Like I watched Miami blues not that long after. And I was like, oh my God, like that's the lady from Clue. And it's just so funny. She's only in yeah like two seconds.
00:44:09
Speaker
And it's just like, oh, like she's like actually kind of like an established woman. sort of like oh she's one of those like oh that guy but like for ladies you know what I mean like you know like the yeah whole trope of like oh you know that guy from the movies and it's just some like character actor whatever think this is perfectly cast even for those like one scene things because there's just like when ah you know her her her older client ah she goes to the office and he's he's already left but the reception or the secretary is Edith Bunker like is all of the
00:44:44
Speaker
I assume all in the family would have been running. It's so funny because I was like, first of all, I was like, is that fucking Edith Bunker? Of course it is. Yeah.
00:44:55
Speaker
It was like, you cannot. No one else looks or sounds like that. yeah Exactly. You're like, what? And she just did it for like two seconds. And you're just like, okay. Like, did she just like, was she friends with one of them? And they were like,
00:45:08
Speaker
It's like when Kowalczyk from Live is in Fight Club. Like, he's the waiter in Fight Club, and he's like, hey, I'm like, free of charge. so I love Live. um I will go to bat for the first four albums by Live.
00:45:20
Speaker
Like, they they are great. But I'm like, why is he here? Right. And I guess... Probably because Fincher likes that. I mean, because he's like from with a he's from music video world, so like, yeah. I think he just like, they were friendly, and he was like, I want to be in your movie. And he was like, okay, hey, you can be a waiter.
00:45:38
Speaker
It's just like so jarring, though. You know what mean? And I do, I just like love, like, I love Shirley Stoller so much. Like, she's just so, you know. Yeah.
00:45:50
Speaker
yeah Maybe this movie, Roxy from Twitter would be would be this character. She reminds me a lot of Roxy. No, no, no, no, right see um my as you said right half probably all the funniest son yeah people i tell her i told her once i was like i literally like will read your tweets out loud to people some like I'll just do it.
00:46:13
Speaker
Yeah, she's so funny. So I love her. I love that scene. um Try to think of some other scenes that are just like so solid. fool clue I mean, they're all good. They're all good. And we talked earlier about the look of it, like especially in Bree's apartment, like the way Gordon Willis, who also shot like the Godfather movies, of course, like it's like one of the great cinematographers, but like that.
00:46:37
Speaker
like the blacks of the shadows are so dark that it's like you were saying earlier like you you're in that paranoid mindset where you're like is there so there could be a bunch of people back it's so dark in the behind you're like there could there could be an army of guys back there and i i don't know um a all those people up there and it's cool because he like goes to like kind of chase who it is and there's all these like weird kind of like like it's Like, her apartment looks real cool, but but it's clearly not supposed to be, like, ah like a very nice apartment building. Yeah. wass like
00:47:13
Speaker
But, like, i mean, I'm looking at it, and I never have lived by myself. like i Right. Like, I've been with someone or at least had my son, because I had my son so young. I was 22 when I had him. So...
00:47:24
Speaker
um So, like, I've never got to live. So i'm like, oh, that's like an apartment like I would have loved to have. Right. But it's like so scummy. And like he's running through and there's like these like rooms and like whatever. And he basically like goes into some like kind of hidden room up in like the attic or something. And there's like a bunch of like tweakers up there. Just like it's kind of and like a labyrinth. Like that it feels like yeah it feel weirded' it feels like a dream in in those segments.
00:47:51
Speaker
yeah like During segments like that, and then also the score really puts you through that thing. rule mike Michael Small, I love the the score for this movie. Have you ever also, another score he did that also has like this ethereal sound?
00:48:05
Speaker
ah Have you ever seen Marathon Man? ah with this is often. yeah yeah, That also has this, like, kind of, at least I associate like, kind of an atypical sound for that that kind of the thriller. But this one is, like, i when I first of saw Clued, was like, oh, this is, like, what ethereal yearning sounds like. Because it's, like, you know he it's like, ooh.
00:48:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of, like, it's just, like, just so off-putting but pretty at the same time. Yeah, like a siren song. I think Jim actually showed Marathon Man that same month. There was one that I missed.
00:48:37
Speaker
And I can't remember. It was like last. It was like a year ago this February. So it was like coming up on two years ago. But I want to. I think Marathon Man was the ah like the fork movie of that month that he showed.
00:48:49
Speaker
um But I didn't realize that was the same composer. That's very cool. The more and another also good Roy Scheider performance and in that movie. I feel like, yeah, the more 70s movies I dealt with, because I also hadn't seen this until like a couple of years ago, even though it's like has all the ingredients for stuff that I'm into. It's just like the more 70s movies watch, I'm like, oh, this is like the best decade for film.
00:49:14
Speaker
Probably. 70s movies are just. They just went for it. They're different. Yeah, they went for it. They were not afraid. i love it. And, you know, like, you've got to think of, like, the political climate at the time. We're coming off of, like, the summer of love. We're coming off of Vietnam War. Like, like people are just taking risks, and it was just... Taking risks and then questioning things that weren't normally questioned, where it's like, well, why do we accept these power structures? Wait a minute. or maybe the government's not good. or Or maybe sex workers are people with hopes and dreams.
00:49:48
Speaker
Oh, my God. Like, you know, it's very interesting. That's such a radical notion. I'm trying to think, too. I love that um that scene when she kind of runs away and she goes back to Roy Scheider and it's like that dance. like It's just like some crazy like coke party.
00:50:05
Speaker
Yeah. and Oh, I love it. And I love like there's like that other sort of like at woman pimp, I don't know, and she's like... oh yeah, I worked with her, but then she stole my coat. if you running Yeah, it's just like so... I don't know. It's like, I like it because too, it's like, there's a whole world Clute doesn't know about.
00:50:25
Speaker
Right? He's kind of like, outskirts trying to save her from herself and trying to save her because he loves her and it's like... And it's just like, I'm really opening my eyes up to the world of organized prostitution. And like, I don't know.
00:50:41
Speaker
it's the It's just good. Like the soundtrack rules, like that song in the club is so good. It's just like, I don't know. Everything about that movie is perfect to me. I just love it. I love it. I love how like, I don't know. I love how like genuinely like sad he gets when she's mean to him. Like, looks like... he really popppy dog he looked I was just going to say, he literally looks like she, like, kicked a puppy.
00:51:05
Speaker
And the puppy is him. She did. And it's just like, stop being mean to him. What are you doing? he loves you. yeah Everything about it's great. and But he... Yeah, because, like, yes, he is this tender presence that, the like, she has not felt before. But also...
00:51:22
Speaker
he isn't even probably considering why she would be that abrasive, like, defensively, like, what you know, Spiney's probably like, why, why? But it's like, there is a reason, like, you know, a self-defensive reason that, you know, that she would be like this. And ah I just think it's interesting that he has this because Because the movie could fall into tropes of like, you know, like, oh, the the proper society guy has to come and save the whore and like the rescue from from this life. And ah it's not because there's obviously ah unsavory elements of what's going on that she would rather not be involved. Like Roy Scheider, everything Roy Scheider represents, like don't go back to him. Cool, man. It's like, no, it's not. You're a bad person.
00:52:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But but the sex the sex work itself is inherently, like, you know, not an evil thing that she needs to be rescued for. It's more just, like, the this mental trap for herself. It's kind of, like, sweet about it, too, with her, like, clients. Like, even, like, the guy in the apartment, she's, like...
00:52:33
Speaker
you know, very, like, sweet to him and stuff, but then it's so funny because she, like, quickly looks at her watch, which is... Yeah. in It's a good laugh, like, in an audience. All about business. I mean, you gotta be... but But it's not, like... But she's not just, like, ew. Like, you're a gross dude who wants... Like, she she's just kind of like... She wants them to feel safe and, like, it's, like, i have like then part of the the... Even at the end with...
00:52:58
Speaker
ah Cable that, like, yeah obviously she's scared and she's, like, stalling for for time, but, like, she is trying to make him feel, like, non-judged in that book. Because, you like, you it like if if you're her and you're just, like, hearing this confession from her, you're like, oh, shit, okay, so he's gonna kill me next to the... But maybe, you know, if I just make him not feel like... Like, I'm not just...
00:53:21
Speaker
You know, like feel welcomed and non-threatening, but it's like, isn't that the dance that like not just sex work, but like all women a lot of scenarios of like, OK, this man can't feel insecure or he might get horribly violent. Yeah. like Yeah. It's it's ah it's ah it's a ah very ah delicate dance that women do a lot. Yeah.
00:53:44
Speaker
um I do like to, it's definitely to that kind of like hooker with a heart of gold stuff, which it, you know, kind of falls into, it but not, but not too badly. I do want to say though, I like that it it definitely like bypasses the like Madonna whore like thing.
00:54:00
Speaker
Like, I don't think Clute looks at her and is like, oh, this is someone I can save. Or like, this is someone who is like, like, I think he meets her where she is and like is sort of patient and to to a degree with where she's at which is difficult for him do you know what i mean oh he's just like look ah he's like okay like i guess you're gonna go i don't want you to go but right like like the scene where she's going back to roy chart like he obviously like that's kind of breaking his heart but uh says i would rather you don't do that like i don't i don't want you to do this but it's not that like he's saving her from from like a whoredom it's more just like like you said to you like he he it it put it takes effort and from him to like kind of meet her at that because this is all like a completely new world to him and i do like the the parallel of uh uh sutherland himself had never been to new york before like filming the movie so it's almost like the that there's like some of that in the performance too of like that this is you one, the overwhelmingness of like, if you've never been to that seat, but this was like like a big city like that. It's so overwhelming. Then like you're going into this co-co-seedy under the world, you know, like that's like right all, all this, this is all new to him. You also like ah that the movie kind of shows that,
00:55:27
Speaker
without telling you which is like that's like that old like story thing right like show you tell or whatever but it's like kind of gentle about like why she kind of like can't get ah can't get like acting work because like there's that awesome scene where she's doing the joan of arc like like you know like audition yeah and she's like oh you know like uh Like, doon, doon, doon, like, God will say French. But she's doing it with an Irish accent.
00:55:59
Speaker
And, like, Joan of Arc was not Irish. But the guy who wrote the play was. Right. So she's playing to that. So she's like, oh, like, she would be Irish. so So even the guy, like, gently is like, oh, you know, interesting accent.
00:56:14
Speaker
And she's like, okay, thanks. And it's like, what are you doing? Joan of Arc was famously French. But i mean those are almost like her instincts of like how she caters to her John, like seeping into like that. Like, OK, well, this this guy's Irish, so I need to play this. I'm going to be Irish, right? So it is very interesting. Like it's it's kind of gentle in showing that she's like ah that great of an actress.
00:56:40
Speaker
But like, you know, it's just always funny to see a great actor put played and not. probably I'm like, that has to be really hard like because you're like already being so you're being another person. But you have to like purposely not be good at the thing that you're good at. It's like you're Jane Fonda. Like, you should be hiring you on the spot. You are Blabarella.
00:57:02
Speaker
Yeah. i would I would just be like, you're hired. like yeah I'm looking through IMDb trivia because it was like something else that I wanted to talk about and I remember seeing in here, but now I can't
00:57:17
Speaker
i canha find it. But that's okay. um The... ah The scene towards the end with Cable and he's making her listen to like her friend get murdered.
00:57:30
Speaker
Oh my God, yeah. It's devastating. and And when I first saw it in the theater for the first time, had this hit of like revulsion in my stomach because I knew...
00:57:44
Speaker
that it was gonna that the recording was gonna end up like i i mean i didn't you because you don't know she's dead like who's found her body like in the river for forever we already know that this this character is dead so so like you know we're not going into it like oh like she's surviving this but it's i'm like any second now this like monologuing and this like back and forth is going to turn into screaming And no matter how many times I see it, it is still so jarring to like hear it turn to that.
00:58:17
Speaker
And like Jane Fonda is just like, bringing it with like her very quiet listening and like starting him to cry and like she's got like snot running down her face and like it's like she's like legitimately crying right and it's just so a moving in like such an awful way just because like I think most women have experienced some sort of violence or have known someone that they love who has
00:58:49
Speaker
or the threat of it. Right, because, like, why why not just kill her? you know, like, why go through the whole rigmarole? ah Because he's even bullshitting himself. Like, I don't even know what I'm going to do. like Like, there's a world in which you don't kill her. It's like, that's what you've been doing. So, like... like and Are you just saying that for, like, plausible deniability? Or, like, so you you can get the... Yeah, yeah like, i'm buy I can't stand trial. I didn't know what I was doing.
00:59:13
Speaker
look um You know what's interesting about that scene, though, I think it's funny, is, like, she calls that old guy for, like, help or whatever, but then he had to leave and, and and you know, take him. The people she would go to aren't there, because the were first she goes to the therapist. The therapist isn't there. Right. Then she goes to him.
00:59:32
Speaker
But also, that therapist... And the receptionist at the therapist's office like, yeah, she's out. And she said straight up says to her, like, I almost killed someone. She's like, okay, well, who that we'll get she'll call you at your own.
00:59:46
Speaker
Don't let her leave. She's in Cranfield. Cranfield's out there with shitty then and it's shitty now. I literally tried to kill my boyfriend. Yeah. Alright, we'll get back to you.
00:59:58
Speaker
the The answering service will give you a call in a little bit, right? But then, like, I love that they just, like, leave her at the closed garment district, like, building.
01:00:10
Speaker
Like, she was like, oh, I was gonna meet, like, this old guy, and he was like, you gotta go, and, like, Jane Stapleton. Jane Stapleton's, like... whoa. Sophie just went by my window. She's like, i mean, okay. And she just like leaves.
01:00:24
Speaker
And I'm like, this is like a closed, like this is an actual business. And she's just like a flittery. And she's just there. like Right, like, wouldn't you maybe, why would you leave anyone, like, she doesn't work there. You don't leave her alone. like And like, clearly other people are coming in because like, Clute meets them there and I'm like, this building is just wide open.
01:00:46
Speaker
Like, yeah no one, there's no security, no one is paying attention. It's a very weird setup to me. i think i think it adds to that kind of ether ethereal dreamlike vibe because it's like, more like, right but Like, the visual of all those coats around her as she's, like, going through and then you see his... Yeah.
01:01:05
Speaker
Yeah, like that... Very elegant. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, it's just a great arresting visual of like being his face. But then also very like Black Christmas. but Oh, absolutely.
01:01:17
Speaker
But like when they, when he kills like, you know, the first girl and and it's like through like the the plastic of the dry clean or whatever. Oh my God, these people are like slamming.
01:01:28
Speaker
They're like doing... Don't mock me right now. They're intentionally... no Oh, I'm so sorry. You have to edit around this. No, that's fine. It's it's pretty... It's actually kind of like claustrophobic, just like the movie Clute. So I guess it kind of... Whoa, it's the 4D, 4DX experience.
01:01:47
Speaker
See, this is an immersive podcast. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. so But like, it is an amazing visual, but you're right. It does kind of add to that dreamlike state. And I do like sort of when the in-movie logic is a little illogical.
01:02:01
Speaker
Like, this could happen where like, she's like, I need to talk to this guy. And like, well, he went home. Bye. and then she just stays there for what? Like, she's waiting for her therapist. She's like, the therapist can call me at this number, right? But like, I couldn't just walk into a business right now and be like, my therapist is going to call me here.
01:02:18
Speaker
It's almost like something you would expect in like a Giallo film or something that's like a little more like, yeah like i'm into that you're like, wait, how does this space connect to this space? Like how did you just walk through this room. and I love Giallo films because like, there's no logic.
01:02:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, no like I love that. That adds to, like, the eeriness of it. And then you almost have to wonder, like, is this, like, some sort of translation issue where, like, if I were Italian, it would make sense? I mean, no, it doesn't make any sense. It's just, like, if you threw anything at the wall or whatever's stuck, stuck.
01:02:50
Speaker
And Jim, the cinematic void Jim that, like... you know, screened Clute, he is the one who kind of coined that January giallo thing, um where like which is like, you know, I think Chicago, I think Music Box does some of the screenings, and sometimes he's there for them.
01:03:08
Speaker
So if he shows up in January, you should go. oh okay. Like, you know Colleen, you know I mean? Yeah, hell yeah. But um but yeah, so like, I love a giallo. And it yeah it is very kind of like giallo adjacent.
01:03:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's from the score to that vibe. Even the way that, like, it's all resolved because Cable, there's not, like, some epic showdown. Not that Duars always have, like, some kind of big shootout or anything, but there usually is, like, a more direct confrontation. It's more just, like... yeah He has Bree.
01:03:40
Speaker
Kloot shows up and then he freaks. He backs up out of the window and then died. sides yeah So it's it's it's almost more like a ah metaphorical undoing. Yeah. yes This guy has been running from his own darkness. And that's what is like led to this. It was like the fact that he flees from this.
01:04:00
Speaker
He's like fleeing from any discovery. You know, like that's why killed Kloot's friend. There's not going to be any closure. Because he took the closure away. Right. He ultimately kills himself.
01:04:12
Speaker
So it's like, you know, like there's not going to be any comeuppance for Arlen or anyone and and And, you know, certainly not for the... I don't even remember the guy's name that, like, they're looking for.
01:04:27
Speaker
Gunneman or something? or yeah well it It's like Ruderman or something. It's like some insane last name that I'm like, are they seeing it right? He exists in the abstract. Like, he just in my... I just think...
01:04:40
Speaker
and like ah He's just like a generic business man. Cable looks like just like regular business this man. like There's a part of like once you fully know that it's him and he's following Bree, there's a bunch of other guys on the streets of New York that look dressed just like him. it's yes it's like that This guy could be any you of those guys. Yeah, and he's very, very ah typical.
01:05:04
Speaker
like yeah You couldn't point him out of a lineup of middle-aged like White businessmen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tom Grunemann. What are these names in this movie?
01:05:17
Speaker
Food's a word, man. Yeah. Clute is a weird name. John Clute. And then Tom Bruneman. And every time they say Gruneman, I feel like they're mispronouncing something else. But it never feels like and it's like normal in their mouths.
01:05:32
Speaker
You know what I mean? Right. It's like they stumble on it every single time. mean, did we never even see... we is Is there even like a family photo where we see someone that they cast as Gruneman? We have the note and we see his wife. the Oh, there is? and Well, yeah, because there's like ah um there's like a wall of photos or something where they, Oh, right, right, right, right. leave But,
01:05:53
Speaker
at when you know because like it starts with and I think he's in that party too so like after the the opening credits with the phone call thing it cuts to this like dinner party and and it's so jarring because it's only for like a couple seconds and it's just like you know like ah your typical like grown-up dinner party where there's like a bunch of grown-ups at a huge table they're all the din of them all talking and stuff and it slam cuts to them at that same table empty and it's Cable, Kloot, and Grunemann's wife.
01:06:24
Speaker
Right, and you're like, oh, yeah, okay. But, like like, I couldn't tell you what he looks like. It's just, like, such a non... issue like in in the you're you're following like the specter of that lead the whole time but it's like a lot of those things that clue in his mind is maybe attributing to his friend Grunemann that was actually just because Cable even says at some point that he was giving Grunemann's name you know like that he was like not using his own name so it's like Yeah, so that so these prostitutes were thinking, like, oh, this guy Tom Bruneman. This poor guy.
01:07:00
Speaker
This poor guy was probably just, like... He's just the a boring, regular guy. Yeah, it would be like if I found out all these crimes were happening, they like, I've been using the name Colleen Carney. And like and I'm just sitting here like on a pod. None the wiser.
01:07:16
Speaker
but like this poor dude... like and then then all All he... ah use His time no crime was that he worked with a freak. that he Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that he walked into the room at the wrong time because he had just killed the first girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just got killed and then all these...
01:07:33
Speaker
got killed and then like all these like but Like, they're telling his wife at the beginning, like, these letters, the sex crimes. You're a sick freak, man.
01:07:43
Speaker
and And she's like, what the hell? and do it And she's like, I want to see them. they're like, you don't want to see them. Like, what's in those letters? Right. We only you see the frame of, like, when they're doing the handwriting comparison of, like, we... we Yeah, and it's, like, not even anything. Like, i i I've read them. Like, I've paused it and read it, and I'm like,
01:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. You know what I mean? yeah a Maybe slut or maybe filthy horror is used a little. yeah i like with Some kind of vaguely insulting like rhetoric or whatever. But it's just like, they like you don't want to see.
01:08:16
Speaker
that she wouldn she She would not last on Twitter. yeah My gracious. It's so funny. I love her. I don't care. i will die with Twitter.
01:08:27
Speaker
Oh, I'm going down with it, but I'm not... I have a Blue Sky account, but I like yeah i never even... plug like When I'm asked to do plugs or when I'm plugging stuff on this, like I never plug my Blue Sky. I forget that I have that account. that i Because it's like... Blue Sky is just the worst to me. It's so...
01:08:46
Speaker
dorky and it's like and the and you know I can't get over the people are like i guess you like the Nazi site better like first of all I don't run into that many not I can cure it where those people don't want it enough right that's true but but like I was there first Yeah, i don't do any I don't want to get seed. So I would turn it up and be like, oh, you want to seed ground the Nazis? Because actually all my communist friends are still on Twitter. So I was like, I'm just going to hang out with them.
01:09:16
Speaker
It's like Mr. Chow, right? Like, Sir Rob Chow, right? i a he was He was like, we're going to move to Blue Sky, right? like Like, let's all just move to Blue Sky, which is like... we'll be boring if we we're on there. But then he came back. I just saw a post from like, yeah.
Critique of Social Media Platforms
01:09:32
Speaker
Yesterday where he's like the problem with Blue Sky, it's not just that it's boring. It's that like but the user base is so low. But then also it's like no one there wants to even comment on like a current events or anything like that. And that's what I was going to say, too. He was like, I posted that like it's hard to get news on here. And someone replied with I don't I'm not here so I can read news.
01:09:55
Speaker
Don't you want to, like, comment or riff on it? You know? Like, that's, like, the of social media. That's the thing. You don't like riffing. Like, every time I'm on Blue Sky, it's, like, one maybe three things. It's, oh, you're still on the Nazi site. It's, like, shut up.
01:10:09
Speaker
Right. Okay. so Or it's, um... Or it's like some kind of scold. Like yeah Victoria, my friend Victoria, who loves to run. She was like, I posted a running picture of myself and someone told me it was ableist.
01:10:23
Speaker
Oh my God. Right. And then, and then, um, ah or it's something like, you know, I'm not here for the news and it's like, okay, but like you should, you he shouldn't use like the internet as a way to like,
01:10:38
Speaker
not be aware of what's going on. Right. if you're If you're trying to avoid that, Internet's a bad place to go. it like yeah i use When he moved over to Blue Sky, he was like, you know, it would be helpful if people weren't so scoldy.
01:10:52
Speaker
And all of his responses were people scoldy. And someone was like, I don't see why I have to be nice to people who just decided that the Nazi site isn't there. And it was like, do you fear yourself?
01:11:04
Speaker
So what did they do when Charlie Kirk got shot? Did they not even make jokes about it? Or were they just like, RIP? Stuff like, don't quote tweet to dunk on people. We don't do that here. And it's like, but I like dunking on people. For here, so I'm not on the Nazi site, but then I can't do anything that I like doing.
01:11:24
Speaker
but yeah no I should be deriving some entertainment from social media. like That's like yeah part of it. like like i I can get the argument of like don't don't like don't like quote tweet like you know like the alt-right stuff.
01:11:36
Speaker
right and yeah is giving that they Giving a platform. for right i saw someone I quote tweeted someone once. Well, I guess it's quote. I'm not saying speech either. i will literally kill myself on live TV before I say speech.
01:11:50
Speaker
But someone was like, I have trauma over quote tweets. And I was like, you need to fucking get off the internet forever. You have trauma.
01:12:03
Speaker
You need to experience some real shit. and And I'm not just like cyber bullying is a thing. Like that could be rough. But that that day that's not what quote, at least from what I see most people quote to you. Like that's not really cyber bullying. Trauma. Trauma.
01:12:18
Speaker
trauma Do we know what trauma is over here? Oh, my God. Words used to be. I mean, that's that that's its own thing where it's like words have lost meaning love pretty quickly.
01:12:28
Speaker
i mean, I got annoyed when people started using mid to mean like bad or I'm like, no, mid's like, you know, it's like middle. It's just like. third that um My big thing is bully.
01:12:42
Speaker
ah For ah years now, especially like internet moms in mom groups have completely like devolved what bully means. So it's like if you're like, you know, Trump's a rapist. They're like, ah you're bullying me for my ah for my political views. Get the fuck out of here. all right I'm not, though. If you want me to bully me, if you want me to bully you, can. I will.
01:13:04
Speaker
And I'll do it great because you'll get at it. But, like, you know, ah there's just something about, like, I've been on Twitter longer. I just like it still. like I've made so many friends there. like more that It's hard for me to make those kind of connections on. ah Like, I'm not making friends on Instagram. People add me on Instagram because I already met them on Twitter. yeah they learn Right.
01:13:27
Speaker
I'm not, like, forming genuine new connections. Right. Yeah, yeah. I have, like, legit in-real-life friends that I know. I'm seriously like my friend Victoria. i I met her on Twitter.
01:13:38
Speaker
But, like, she is local to me. We are friends. We hang out, like, a lot. You know what I mean? But, like, I would not have known her if it wasn't for Twitter. I'm just not, I'm not leaving Twitter. I'm sorry. and And the thing is, too, like, I don't really talk to the alt-rights.
01:13:53
Speaker
Like, I don't interact with them. Every once in a while. Don't wade into like a comment section or occasionally. And then that's usually when i'm like, okay, time to mute this post. And then, you know, like I block those. Or just like, like there'll be every once in a while, there'll be like one and they'll just like, come on. And they'll be like, you're fat.
01:14:12
Speaker
And like, okay. It's always the weirdest looking people who want to like start body shaving ah hot people online. They're like, oh, it's liu you're ah you. look like a trans woman. And I'm like, okay, first of all, like every trans woman I know is hot as shit.
01:14:30
Speaker
yes And they're putting way more effort into anything than I am. So that's not an insult to me. But also, like, that's the best you can come up with. Someone tried to kill me once.
01:14:42
Speaker
Like, yeah you're like, your crayons isn't going to hurt my feelings. You know what I mean? it It's low effort. It's lazy. It's like, come on. like Even just my stupid tweet yesterday about Damien Leone, like, for some reason broke containment.
01:14:58
Speaker
And, like, I went to Ben. was, like, 34 likes on it. I woke up. There was, like, 1,000. ah And so there's 788 likes and now there's like 20. And it's all these people I don't know. And I'm like, I'm not talking to you. i don't care about you.
01:15:13
Speaker
ah like right youre Like, I love Terrifier and I hate woke. And it's like. Oh, oh that's yeah that's very surprising that that movie attracts that. Oh, really? um'm I'm so shocked.
01:15:26
Speaker
It's just so funny. It's like, whatever. But like, the thing is, like, Blue Skies is boring. I bet if I talked about Clued on Blue Sky, people would be like, um you shouldn't like...
01:15:39
Speaker
movies about sex workers. It denigrates them. Like, they're just so scoldy. And I'm like... Well, which wraps around to being, like, insult... Like, it's like, you you now you're, like, denigrating people that you... feel Like, especially if you're taking that position. Oh, but it turns around where you're trying to support people so bad that you end up actually insulting them. Yeah.
01:15:59
Speaker
Like, it's like when people try to be so anti-racist that, like, like this is actually kind of racist. Yeah. I was saying. i i would have a You kind of have a noble savage view. Right, right, right, right.
01:16:10
Speaker
Oh, my God. so But, like, it is like that, though. It's so funny. And it's just like, mean, I just want talk about movies. Like, i'm not used, like, it's not 2016 anymore. i
Film Portrayals and Award Fairness
01:16:24
Speaker
remember i I knew this one woman who said that she wouldn't watch Split.
01:16:28
Speaker
Yeah. Because it was, she heard it was offensive to people with dissociative identity this And I was like, this is a superhero movie. yeah Right. Like, I would, those complaints about that would held more merit if Shyamalan sat down and was like, I'm trying to make a realistic depiction of this disorder. and a and it But it's like, this is. You realize he turns into like a werepanther at the end or something. He's like climbing walls. Like, he doesn't, like, that's the the twist is that he does not have DID. Like, he has, he's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:17:06
Speaker
He's like a superhero. Yeah. I love that whole trilogy. mean... ah i You know what? I'm a Glass defender. Some people are like... I'm a Glass defender, too. People like, Glass is dumb. Like, oh, he gets drowned in a puddle. I'm like, this one is good. Shut up. Dude, I'm a Glass defender, too. I'm so glad you said that because I really felt like I was on my own there. Because even other Shaman on your hands are like, I can't follow you there. And I'm like, it just is such a...
01:17:33
Speaker
I would be disappointed if that's not how that that trilogy ended up. If it did... Because the whole movie, they are hyping a more conventional opening to like the the tallest skyscrapers being built. And that's where Bruce Willis is going to fight the beast. And I'm like... yeah ah do I want to see that? don't want to. Shaman's like, no, actually, they're just going to fight in a quad. Yeah. Just get out in a puddle.
01:17:57
Speaker
am a defender of that movie. And I'm like, you mean to tell me that you're going to go to bad for old? But you're not going to go to bad for glass? I mean, I also love old. I mean, I love old as well, but like, it's ridiculous.
01:18:11
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, oh um yeah. butly I mean, you're feeling in that zone now. Yeah. I genuinely love old, but oh my God. i But I love, you know, and it was just so funny because I remember being like, do you have dissociative identity identity disorder? And she was like, no. And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?
01:18:31
Speaker
This is a movie where he turns into like an animal at the end. Do you think that's what happens to people? and but First of all, it's like widely like, like, ah you know, ah it's one of those a kind of controversial, like, is this actually a disorder?
01:18:47
Speaker
And you'll see people on Twitter and they're like, I have DIP and this is my system. And if you see this emoji, that's who's talking. And I'm like, that's not real. You're faking that. Yeah. Yeah.
01:18:59
Speaker
and That's just fake. What are you talking about? So it's just, I don't know. I just feel like Blue Sky is to me like the embodiment of that woman that I knew who was like just terrible.
01:19:13
Speaker
ah but so like, it's just so stupid. It's like, you know, you shouldn't like this because it subjectates women or something. You don't even know. you don't even know Like, ah whatever.
01:19:28
Speaker
It's funny. But, like, i don't know. I'll go down with the Twitter ship. That's all have to say. I'm going down with the ship. I'm not going in. ain't going nowhere. and Solidarity.
01:19:39
Speaker
Clute. So good. and Great movie. Greatest movie ever. It's up there. you know um You know, I'm always joking online about, like, you know, your top ten movies to get to know me. Clute.
01:19:51
Speaker
Yeah, Clute ten times. ah We had the... I i do eat the Southern California conventions for Bangoria, and we had some of the 2023 Chainsaw Ward shirts ah that were just like, you know, five bucks or whatever, just trying to kind of get rid of them. and And on the back...
01:20:09
Speaker
you could It came with like a a permanent fabric. I think the idea was that you could write like who you wanted to win. like me these things. course, they like were for sale before the awards came out. What if I buy this and just put Clute on it? like On every everything. like it's Horror villain.
01:20:28
Speaker
Clute, 1971. nineteen seventy one Not i even character from Clute, just the movie Clute. Yeah, overall. Yeah. It's just, oh, it's one of my, I had never seen a movie that instantly became one of my favorites so quickly like that movie did.
01:20:44
Speaker
Yeah. It just meant so much to me. Just shot up there. Everything about it. Also, one of times where you hear about, and because there's sometimes where I'll watch an older movie. I'm like, surely this must have won something. And then you look up who did win that year and you're like, why? But they they're like, OK, if Jane Fonda had not won an Oscar, they the Oscars should.
01:21:04
Speaker
if we I mean, the words are stupid anyway, but it's like if the they should be dismantled as an organization if they she had not won. It's definitely one of those things where it's like, it's stupid unless what I want to win wins.
01:21:16
Speaker
In which case, I think it's the best thing in the whole world. Like, oh yeah, no, the the Academy recognized Enora as great. and but i don' they got They got it right.
01:21:27
Speaker
But then you watch like, you're like, ah Crash 2004. Joke of a show. Like, whatever. so That was a weird time. Although that was me transitioning into, you know, like when that came out, that was 2004, I guess I would have been 13.
01:21:44
Speaker
I was like, I guess this is what adult movies are. This is important, right? like This is like an important movie. It means something. And then and if you watch it and it's like Sandra Bullock falls down some stairs because she's racist. and like oh Yeah, we're not and it's like somehow like, more again, it's the horseshoe theory of like it's trying to say something about race.
01:22:03
Speaker
in a way that and becomes more racist than if they hadn't said anything at all. Like, it's like a shockingly racist movie for a movie that's trying to be anti-racist. Yeah, and it's just stolen valor of calling yourself Crash, but it's like, okay, what one of the greatest movies ever is called Crash, and that's not you. Oh, i don't know what you're doing here god o oh but yeah i don't know it's just it's just like for everything from like
Personal Reflections and Aging in Film
01:22:29
Speaker
you know her whole character like and like just the study of her character means everything to me their relationship means everything to me him being so gentle with her is like what i someday i will write that essay about like why it just fills me with such but the thing is like
01:22:47
Speaker
I have to really, like, examine. Like, I have to sit down and be like, why does this make me feel the way I feel about it? And I'm afraid if I do that, it will, like, hurt really bad. you know I mean, it probably you got to do some that kind of self-reflection. is yeah ah hurt I mean, that's kind kind of what the movie is. I mean, that's what drives people insane is that he does not want to do that self-reflection.
01:23:09
Speaker
He does it one where, like, why do I want to hurt people so badly? And it's, like, so funny, too, because when you think of, like, Tink, it's, there are people who like to be hurt, and if you just don't kill them and you work out some sort of, like... You can figure out, like, a transactional or something consensual where you still get your rocks off to that. That's your bag. You do that. But...
01:23:29
Speaker
Ultimately, just like a lot of things, it's not, you know, him getting off sexually. Like, he wants to kill people. Like, that's all it is. Well, no that would require vulnerability. Like, that's like, you know, that kind of it the level of intimacy is like, now that person knows something about, it like, a ah level of value that that, like, he says, like, no one should know that shit.
01:23:49
Speaker
yeah Like, I should. Right. Yeah. And yeah, it's just so interesting. And there's a lot to say. You know what? This has inspired me. I'm going to do it. I'm going to finally sit down.
01:23:59
Speaker
And you know what? I did get a writing assignment for the first time in years ah this week. And it was surprising to me. and And um I'll tell you about it off camera. Okay. But I...
01:24:13
Speaker
I genuinely think that like I got this writing assignment because ah my my boss, for lack of a better term, is like, let's keep calling busy so she doesn't keep spiraling. It's not bad. You know, this time of year is always rough on me emotionally. So ah but, ah you know, I'm like, oh, you know, can I still write?
01:24:31
Speaker
So yeah oh maybe in writing this assignment thing, maybe I will be. moved to do some good writing um and I really want to think about why Clute's hands are so meaningful to me.
01:24:45
Speaker
i mean, because Donald Sullivan's hands. That's part of it. It's like, okay, I'm going to get it out of the way right now. Part of it is because I think he's hot. yeah So it's just like, ooh, okay, but like but like there's something else. in what else what's and I mean, this movie's hot as hell, but like if I think through all... Maybe it's just because it's Donald Trump. I get hot watching any of his movies, even Invasion of Body Statures. he's Or even Shroud, he's little bit. What's the one where he goes to Italy after their kid dies? ah Is it Don't Look or something? or
01:25:17
Speaker
ah Don't look now? all Don't look now. one with the really long sexy. Yeah, so the Donald Sutherland. Yeah, don't look now. Don't look now.
01:25:29
Speaker
Yeah, him and Julie Christie have... Oh, you've never... There's a sex scene in it where you would be like, oh, a 70s thriller. There's going be a sex scene between Julie Christie and Donald Sutherland. All right, well, there's going probably be some T&A or something.
01:25:45
Speaker
No, we're going to objectify Donald Sutherland. he He dresses down first, and they we're showing his ass. Oh, yeah, this is the one with the red... ah with the Red hood. Yeah, okay, okay. You know what? I think I have seen this, but I think it's been, like, years and years since I've seen it.
01:26:01
Speaker
You know what? I'm going to watch it this week. I'm going to watch it before Friday. Maybe I'll stream it. That would be... I mean, that's a perfect copy. I mean, could just pull anything. Honestly, just watch, yeah, Sutherland's, like, run. I'll watch it a second later.
01:26:18
Speaker
and then And then maybe I'll stream it. Dude, even, like, that guy loved showing his ass because he'd been, like, Animal House. Oh, yeah. That was the first thing I ever saw him in where I was like, that guy's hot.
01:26:30
Speaker
I was in high school. I had like a VHS Animal House. And I was like, it's kind of sexy. And I love that Simpsons bit where he sings a song about Animal House. Remember that? Yeah. I was like, no one of you ever went to class.
01:26:44
Speaker
And we saw Donald Sutherland's ass. I sing that all the time. It's so funny. God. ah R.I.P. buddy. got to tell you, when when Jane Fonda goes, I'm going to be berefted.
01:26:59
Speaker
She's like a hundred. Not ready to accept that idea. i think she's going to live. She's going to be the first person that lives forever. Yeah. which
Media Influence on Politics and Family
01:27:10
Speaker
Just to piss off the people that still call her did you white ah Hanoi Jade. People are still mad about it. I love that they're like, I love that the general consensus, even since okay so when I was growing up, I never learned anything about the Vietnam War.
01:27:26
Speaker
I went to a very small Catholic school. We never got past World War II. Then in high school, like I only took like one social studies class. This the way my my schedule worked out. I literally never learned about Vietnam.
01:27:38
Speaker
And I didn't find out that we did not win Vietnam until I was in my 20s. i remember asking my ex-father-in-law, and he was like, ew, you didn't win the Vietnam War. What the fuck are you talking about? And was like, I don't know. I never learned about it. you know It was because of Fonda. We lost it because of Everything I know about the Vietnam War, I know through movies like Jacob's Ladder and stuff.
01:28:00
Speaker
so Right. It's all you need, really. But, like, I love that, like, so growing up, ah the misinformation there was so drastic that I literally thought we won it for years, right?
01:28:11
Speaker
But then now I feel like the general consensus is that was a mess we should have never been involved in. And it was, like, a massive failure and, like, caused a lot of strife for, you know, our armed servicemen and stuff.
01:28:25
Speaker
And people are still mad at her. Right. Everyone agrees the war was bad, but then they're still mad at her. and I love it when it's someone like my age or even younger. And it's like, you weren't alive when this happened. Why do you have an opinion on it? Like, I could see, like, my mom.
01:28:46
Speaker
it My mom doesn't like being fond. And she can't tell me why. And I think it's probably because of. like old Vietnam War resentment or something. But she's just like, I just don't like her. But then she'll be like, oh, but that was a good movie. I'm like, okay. Americans don't realize how propagandized we are.
01:29:05
Speaker
Like, I feel like a lot of times they'd be like, oh, at least we're not North Korea or fucking China. Like, okay, so. but yeah You have to throw some xenophobia in there. Yeah. You're racist.
01:29:17
Speaker
um My mom is is definitely like that. And it's funny because yesterday we had a talk and we were talking about like vaccines. And so angry job but well I don't really trust like the COVID vaccine. And I was like, that's because all you do is watch Fox News.
01:29:34
Speaker
I was like, there you go. Any other vaccines? And she's like, yeah, I'm like super pro inoculation. I'm like, OK, so you're just being propagandized. Like that's all there is to it. You need to learn how to admit it to yourself. Also, we we're a very pro-science family.
01:29:47
Speaker
She lives with my brother and sister-in-law and my niece had cancer when she was little. We're very pro-science. Right. And I'm like, you you don't actually believe this. You're just saying because you heard it on Fox News.
01:29:59
Speaker
But when you dig a little deeper, she's like, oh, no, but I'm very pro-vaccination. I'm like, Right, you think these conflicting ideas would... No, they just stack on top of each other. No one's going to even question whether that makes sense at the heart.
01:30:15
Speaker
She's such a fake conservative. It's so funny. She'll be like, yeah I'm pro-life, but like I wouldn't ever force somebody else to get an abortion. I'm like, so then you're pro-choice. What are you talking about?
01:30:26
Speaker
God, this is the reason why I live so far away. so I love them, but it's a lot. Yeah, no, I get it. Clute. I'll talk about Clute all day long.
01:30:37
Speaker
I love that movie. So. Yeah. flesh that i was i was trying to think of, did I have anything else in my, brothers yeah I was getting brain foggy. I mean, I, you know, my Adderall and caffeine in the morning carries me a little far. And then the afternoon, I start dropping off like, oh, I need to like put more gas in the tank. and then i like Yeah,
Engagement and Future Discussions
01:30:56
Speaker
yes.
01:30:56
Speaker
Time for my mid-afternoon coffee. Yeah. but Yeah. I mean, I think we covered it all. It's just it's just such a great movie. If people listening haven't seen it, I suggest. I mean, yeah, we already said, listen, but if you somehow are viewed disobeyed that and then kept going like shame on Yim Vong. It's on you now that you know that Arlen's age dies or whatever.
01:31:17
Speaker
so we weren but out But it's it's so worth watching and it's just such a delight the light have found. So like like I wish I hadn't known about it sooner, but it probably would have like really, like if I had found that movie when I was 18, it would have been my entire personality.
01:31:34
Speaker
I'd like have her hair cut. And like, huh. ah You still could. Yeah. um But no, because, you know, there's bangs involved and... Yeah.
01:31:46
Speaker
I just don't have that head shape. I am not Jane Fonda as much as I would love to be. so I mean... It doesn't have to be. There's two queens can't coexist.
01:31:57
Speaker
Aw. Oh, my God. Yeah. So I urge everyone to watch as many times as possible. So, yeah, you really have to watch it like 10 times. holy No, I mean, I loved it from first watch, but this is like it's in the rotation. It's perfect fall vibes this time of year.
01:32:14
Speaker
And then even if fally. it's it's so It's not a horror movie, but it is spooky. I mean, like because it's like not just like the stalking aspect of it and like the the surreal, almost giallo-adjacent. I think it's also examining, like we keep circling, the scariness of human desire.
01:32:32
Speaker
You know, and those kind of compulsions and like what this the horrible things that can happen when that's not unpacked. Right. um ah Honestly, it's a good watch heading into November for a noir-vember.
01:32:48
Speaker
a Perfect fin for that. It's sort of like its own kind of neo-noir type thing. I would definitely categorize it as a noir. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's a conversation with those tropes, but like subverting them where it's like – because it's like – Brie isn't a femme fatale in the sense that she's like yeah trying to like lead Clute astray or anything. Like, yeah, she does.
01:33:11
Speaker
ah I guess would to drag him down to her life in the sense of like, that's like she, she needs to feel in order to have that power. She'd be like, okay, well, no, you're, you're the same as me, you know? Right.
01:33:23
Speaker
Well, I think she's like a cornered animal. So she's just like lashing out to survive. You know what I mean? Yeah. like So, uh, yeah, definitely a good November watch. So everyone should watch it.
01:33:35
Speaker
And then talk to me about it. Yeah, well, I loved having you on to talk about it. Hopefully, have you on for for something else sometime. Have me on for anything else ever. i love being on podcasts, and I'm hoping this roof situation is done within the next couple days, and then it just won't be loud anymore. Well, fans of this episode will listen to future ones and like, where are the roof sounds? or Like, I came to listen to... Put them man but Yeah, yeah. Like, we can record me just, like, hitting the wall. We just have a ham.
01:34:08
Speaker
I hire of a roofing company. I'm like, I'm recording a podcast later today. Could you just, like, make roof noises? It's kind of my brain. Really went over well with the last... know. ah Have me on and we can talk about tightrope.
01:34:21
Speaker
Oh, ah yeah. i That movie was... I didn't even know
Holiday Traditions and Film Streams
01:34:25
Speaker
that existed until I came on that that that night you were streaming. was like, what the fuck? Oh, my God. That's some freaky shit.
01:34:32
Speaker
Oh, it's so freaky. And and for some reason, it has like a hundred dogs in that movie. like he's just go It has a million dogs. And that was another movie that um yeah and Jim had screened and that ended up in my book because of it. um Just such a good... and you just get like that great shot of this boiled up ass.
01:34:52
Speaker
Like just food for me. It's like, okay, but such a good movie. Oh, yeah. But yeah, I'll talk about that anytime, too. So anytime you want, you tell me. yeah I love being on podcasts.
01:35:02
Speaker
so I love yapping. Yeah, well, i love yapping about movies. And yeah, I love yapping about with you. So i definitely have you on again. dey Anything you want to plug? for time I got nothing to plug right now unless somebody out there is a publisher who wants to pick up a very kinky and violent book.
01:35:20
Speaker
Publish a book. Yeah, besides that, I have nothing much going on right now, which is which I'm grateful for. so um But, yeah. i Read Fangoria, because then they'll keep having me edit for that. Excuse me. I guess I'll plug Fangoria.
01:35:35
Speaker
Publish a and then read Fangoria. happening right now. ah They took a compendium. Oh, I only know you posted about that. Yes. They blew through their first three stretch goals yesterday alone.
01:35:49
Speaker
Wow. um By the time I saw the link, it was already almost at the second stretch goal. So, uh, really good stuff. Full digitized, uh, archives you can get access to.
01:36:00
Speaker
Check that out. Just go to Fangoria and you'll see it. Uh, I didn't know any direct books. But, yeah, besides that, I'll plug them for now since I have nothing going on for myself. So. Yeah, I don't have much else to plug besides this. Uh, well, I had been on my friend's, uh, show Unsourced Wall Radio on YouTube. If you can watch those past streams where we were covering all the VHS movies, uh,
01:36:24
Speaker
A little bit a little bit of this, but it was a fun, fun ride. ah And then also look out for links for ah tomorrow night. Well, I guess I'll be posting this today, but yeah there'll be a link for if you missed the the Twitch stream for Ghostwatch, then we'll have the recording of that. They'll they'll go up on the feed. So to take a look for that. I will say people can follow me at Carleen Carney, super easy. And I will be doing, probably two it won't be up in time for the Halloween thing, but I will be doing my holiday streaming in December on Saturday nights again.
01:37:00
Speaker
So I tend to put like several hours worth of just old commercials and and trailers and music videos, but then stuff like The Christmas Tree 1991 or Elves or, you know. Yeah. And then your typical like Silent Night Deadly night and stuff like that. I usually do one each Saturday of December. You know, ah my birthday is in December and also Christmas, obviously. and a huge Christmas fanatic, so...
01:37:26
Speaker
I tend to do those streams. I've been doing them for a couple of years now. It's always very fun. Usually I'll do an East coast, West coast, uh, thing. And then on the West coast stream, I'll be in the chat, like hanging out. There's nothing major, just chatting. People want to pop in and stuff. So,
01:37:42
Speaker
Hell yeah. People who follow me on social media will see the posters for that as it gets closer. Okay, awesome. Yeah, keep an eye out for that. And everyone have a great ah Halloween. And also, spooky season does not end on October 31st. All year round, but also the specific fall one for me, it's like...
01:38:02
Speaker
oh Through Thanksgiving, pretty much. they yeah you can go cro You can go nuts with Christmas, but I'm um'm saying Christmas heads just wait a few weeks. we get Let me have this.
01:38:14
Speaker
So see, you have you have Halloween season to Thanksgiving. I have Christmas season right after that ah Halloween. We both seem to hate Thanksgiving, which makes me happy because I'm not a Thanksgiving fan.
01:38:26
Speaker
I mean, like turkeys, like, okay, you know? It's like an idea. It's like ah it's a meat that feels impossible to have strong feelings about. It's like, it's like. I've never had. And you know what? People get so bent out of shape. And now like, you've just never had a good turkey. I have had a good turkey. I've had great turkeys. just don't like best turkey is, like, give me any other bird.
01:38:48
Speaker
Yeah. Give me a ham or something. You're right. We didn't have some ham or something. Anything. Something crazy. We had chorus game conventions one year. That was really fun.
01:38:59
Speaker
That sounds good. Yeah. Yeah, it was good. So. All right. right. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Bye.
01:39:38
Speaker
Clute.