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Tackling Societal Pressures and Stereotypes in Modern-Day Fatherhood (feat. Sean Donohue)
131 Plays9 months ago
On this stirring episode of The Integrated Man Project, titled 'Tackling Societal Pressures and Stereotypes in Modern-Day Fatherhood,' host Travis Goodman engages in a profound discussion with renowned family coach Sean Donohue. They tackle the complex landscape of modern fatherhood, dismantling societal stereotypes, emotional hurdles, and the pursuit of male identity.
Key points include: the shift towards emotion coaching rather than authoritarian parenting, the impact of societal pressures and personal traumas on men's emotional well-being, and the transformative power of mentorship and legacy in reshaping the role of fathers.
Don't miss this episode as we dive into these poignant topics with guest Sean Donohue, who brings his wealth of experience as a family coach to empower and inspire men in their journey towards integrated and effective parenting.
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Instagram: @the.familycoach
Web: www.parentingmodernteens.com
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YouTube: Travis Goodman
Instagram: @integratedmanproject
Check out the Website: TBD
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Transcript
Introduction to Men's Group Coaching
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to this week's episode of the Integrated Man Project podcast. Before we get to the show, just a quick announcement about some upcoming new offerings I'll be having. Under the Integrated Man Project wing, I'm gonna be launching my first men's group coaching program. Those, if you're new to the show, I practice as a licensed marriage and family therapist. I've been practicing for about 10 years.
00:00:22
Speaker
in California and I'm going to be stepping into the coaching world and having my first men's group coaching program here launching. If you are interested in getting involved with that, go ahead and email me at integrated man project at gmail.com. Again, integrated man project at gmail.com for more information.
00:00:41
Speaker
I could send you a quick questionnaire asking a few more clarifying questions. We could set up a quick voice and or video chat to clarify any questions you might have. And this initial offering will be for men to work through a six-week program designed at reducing stress more effectively.
00:01:01
Speaker
teaching some practical skills and tools to effectively navigate stress. So again, if you're interested, email me at integratedmanproject at gmail.com. And without further ado, let's jump into the show.
Parenting Approaches and Influences
00:01:18
Speaker
Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the podcast. I'm excited to have on this guest, Sean. Sean, how you doing, man? I'm doing great. Hey, thanks for having me, Travis. Good to be here with you. Looking forward to this.
00:01:30
Speaker
Yeah, I've been looking forward to this since I think we first virtually met and this is actually our first time meeting meeting those that are watching or listening. We've had some emails back and forth and I've been following Sean's page on IG for a little while now and respect the work that he's doing and how he
00:01:47
Speaker
Yeah, how you, sorry, not he, you, we're talking, how you put things in perspective and make us think about what we're doing as parents. And even specifically, when I think of myself as a dad and maybe other dads are like, hey, how do I reach my teen? How do I connect on these topics on discipline or teaching or emotions? And it means so many things that you hit. Thank you. Do it with grace, I think. So well done. Thank you. Yeah, man. Yeah. I'm really just a regular old Joe.
00:02:14
Speaker
I've been married for 20 years to my wife Danielle. My kids are 18, 14, and 7. I love making these videos to try to help people inspire them, bring support and new creativity and tools using just like everyday language that regular men like myself use. It's been a wild ride, man. It's been fun. I really enjoy it. Enjoy it.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, and 18 and then down to seven. So you got a range there. And we'd like to take spaces. I've been raising babies for a freaking long time. It's like, yeah, when you space your kids out, there's perks to it. But one of the perks is, you know, I've been having to do that bedtime routine for like, you know, 18 years straight now. So
00:02:54
Speaker
Still in it, seven years old still doing it. And so I'm not that far away from just like having some more chill time and peace and quiet at nighttime. But yeah, love the kids and happy to be here, man.
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah. And my kids, if you don't know, mine are not spaced. So, yeah, spaciously. I got six four and two. So it's like four and two dominoes. So you talk about sleep. I'm definitely in that sleep. Oh my gosh. That is six four and two. I don't know which one to be harder. I'd be.
00:03:25
Speaker
They both have pros and pros, right? They both have pros and difficulties, I would say, and stressors. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah, nobody ever told us how hard parenting was going to be. That's partly why we're listening to this podcast and we're on this podcast right now because, you know, we need support and tools and happy to have to be a positive voice on this podcast, on your podcast, the Integrated Man Project. And so, yeah, man, let's talk.
00:03:49
Speaker
Let's talk, man. So could you share a bit with us, kind of, you know, you've been doing this, your kind of project, your process, your coaching for the past, I think 10 or 11 years, kind of, can you give us a quick snippet of what got you into it and why you want to be a family coach?
Sean's Journey to Family Coaching
00:04:03
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I love telling this story. Yeah. People, the people that were asked me this, except for our own podcast now, it's like not.
00:04:08
Speaker
You know, sometimes my new friends will ask me, but long story short, man, is I was that 20-year-old college kid who had to pay his way through college, and I had to get an after-school program. I had to get a job to put myself through college, so I got a job at UC Santa Barbara's after-school program where I was hanging out with kids, like after school, and I was throwing dodgeballs at their heads and helping them with their homework. And I was like, man, this is like really good. Like, this is really interesting. Like, I really feel like drawn.
00:04:36
Speaker
Helping these children and being a positive support and one thing led to another and my my friend she's like hey Sean You'd be really a good mentor. I'm like doing this mentorship with teenagers. You should do it with us It's called this awesome group called young life So I did that and now I'm working with children to get money and I'm like mentoring teenagers and I just like this thing came over my life I was doing stand-up comedy at the time and I was planning on moving to Hollywood being a comedy writer and
00:05:02
Speaker
and I was having a lot of success doing on stage and I had a whole have a whole book of jokes and anecdotes and I was very serious about writing and I just felt like this is not what I'm supposed to do with my life. I'm supposed to do something with children and and so I had a child got married had a child there was this TV show called the super nanny on I'm 45 so you may not remember that show is highly popular about 18 years ago. Do you remember that bunny chance?
00:05:27
Speaker
I don't. I'm not that much younger than you, but I'm close, I'm 39. First, it's kind of like reality TV. This English lady named Jo, she would go into the homes of these chaotic American homes and she would kind of connect with the children and then give the parents parent coaching. And I kind of turned to my wife and I said, this is like a really creative idea. I should do that.
00:05:47
Speaker
And i had to i had to grow up first i had to learn a lot to do a lot of a lot of education a lot of maturing and so yeah about eleven years ago i started this firm and i was like i'm gonna be like a i'm gonna be like a male in this space which is normally dominated by women and now here we are on your podcast.
00:06:06
Speaker
You know what, now that I think about it, I feel like I've seen that show because you said a British lady and I remember seeing episodes of that now that I think about it. Yeah, I've had classic purple power suit and she did a lot of stuff I don't believe in, but they rebranded it to like 9911. So yeah, now I just mostly work with parents from all around the country and the world from my home office, but I spent many years and my team still does that, going to people's homes into the mess, into the grind, into the messiness and the chaos
00:06:36
Speaker
and doing just like you see on TV. And now we just mostly do it through Zoom. I do, but yeah, it's fun. It's fun. Yeah. No, and I like being in the environment versus coming to an office. I'm assuming how much more you would see spending time in the actual environment watching... Dude, I've seen so much crazy stuff. I mean, wild stuff, man.
00:07:01
Speaker
Let's see a lot of stuff got a lot of stores still got my staff. They're still going to people's homes. And yeah, it's very intimate and we can make a whole podcast apps episode of just ask me some of the like top 10 crazy stuff I've seen in people's homes. That'd be a fun one. Yeah, I'm sure my question for you with kind of all the work you've been doing and think about
00:07:22
Speaker
you know, what you were doing 11 years ago with this kind of parenting coaching today, like what is some of the, like what's one of the biggest things that parents are coming to now looking for help in with their kids?
Modern Parenting Challenges and Growth Mindset
00:07:35
Speaker
Well, two things to come off the mind for me. The first one is screens. I mean, screens is like the parenting battle of our generation. But on a really positive note is like, here you are, you're a young dad, you're a highly trained, gifted professional, and you're helping other men.
00:07:50
Speaker
So the, one of the other things that comes to mind is there's a lot of parents out there that have like a growth mindset towards parenting. It's like they're open to, you know, reading books, watching videos, joining a membership. And like they feel like they're not threatened by it. It's okay to say, I don't have this all figured out. My parents didn't give me the best tools or it's okay to say, I don't want to parent.
00:08:14
Speaker
the way they parented and i don't know what to do then and so that's just like really exciting like i like to say especially for men is like we're like a new generation of man essentially redefining what a good dad is.
00:08:29
Speaker
what a good masculinity is and what good husbandry is and we're doing it right now we're kind of doing all this podcast even as we speak so that is like very exciting so yeah we can talk about doom and gloom and screens and anything you want negative and i can. Help you with that but that's on a poor positive stuff i kinda nerd out on.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yeah, with that, it's interesting. And I agree that we're in a season in an era of life where I think a lot of people are coming. And I'm wondering what the men you're seeing coming to you, what you mentioned kind of they're open and not taking offense or threatened by, hey, read a book or watch a video. Yeah. Has there been a big shift over the past 11 years of doing the work? Has it always kind of been there? What you're seeing? Oh, it's totally changed in the last 11 years. There's so many more men. I mean, I have a lot of men clients now, but
00:09:18
Speaker
It used to be, you know, close to 90%. It was the women instigating it. Now we have a lot of men instigating this and I've got, and so yeah, it's just, it's very exciting time because I just think if you, if you really, you don't have to look that far because all the resources we have on YouTube, social media, podcasts, to
00:09:39
Speaker
to see that there's a different world out there than how you were raised as a child. There's do's and don'ts. There's good parents. There's bad parents. There's shady stuff that we should not do to our kids. And there's good things we can do to our kids. And there's good ways to manage our emotions in bad ways. And it's all there. Just like there is good ways to do plumbing and there's bad ways to do plumbing. There's good ways to do lawn care and there's bad ways. There's so much knowledge out there. It's accessible at our very hands.
00:10:08
Speaker
It's just cool to be a part of that, you know? Yeah. And in seeing that, that you're seeing this shift, I think it is very promising to see the shift from even 10, 11 years ago, which is not that long. Going from like 90% moms or females coming to you now having more men, more dads, even instigating it is very
00:10:27
Speaker
very promising to hear because I think some of our cultural narrative is still, you know, how much, really how stuck men kind of are. But to hear that, it's like you're actually seeing that a lot of men are actually wanting change and seeing that they need to grow and, you know. Yeah, let me ask you two questions on that same point, if I may. Have you seen any change in the last 10 years? And then from your perspective as like a therapist, why do you think men get so stuck in like reaching out for help or feel like, you know,
00:10:57
Speaker
like admitting you don't have this all figured out. Like, I know that's two questions at once, but if I may, what do you think about that?
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, great question as well. And what I've seen in 10 years of doing therapy, I mean, nine years, so close to 10, nine years. I think a lot of the barriers for men are still kind of the same as they've been that I've noticed even nine years ago. And even what the researchers said, I think a lot of men still struggle with the societal expectations of what it means to be a man. And you said, you know, we're working on what it means to be a masculine man or a good husband, you said husbandry, great word.
00:11:27
Speaker
I think a lot of men are still, I think, afraid and in fear of still seeking help and what that might mean to what it means to be a quote-unquote man, even to this day. Yeah, I do see men coming to me absolutely and sticking with me, but when I asked them, I think they still had to overcome that barrier of how people might perceive them as being a strong man or a weak man or being a man.
00:11:50
Speaker
and how men should just have it figured out, not being seen as weak, because if I come for help, I'm weak and that's not good, right? So I think a lot of men still have that as initial barrier to even come, even to this day, like even a week or two ago of...
00:12:05
Speaker
That's what they said is like, yeah, I don't want to be seen as weak. I don't want to be seen as not a man. And I think a lot of men have a narrowed view of what it means to be a man, very kind of boxed in, must look like this only, which is like the classic overly stoic, you know, not showing a lot of emotional vulnerability, you know, anger is kind of okay, but sadness, you know, frustration, confusion, not okay. It's like the man code, the man box. And so,
00:12:32
Speaker
For sure. To this day, even nine years ago, it's I think pretty consistent. I might be seeing more men come in, but I think they're still fighting some of that initial fear, so to speak. I don't blame them because I was raised in an alpha male society of sports and beach culture of San Diego. If you think back to the movies that really shaped my childhood, we're talking violent action movies. We have guns and sucking up in sports.
00:13:02
Speaker
And yeah, well, point break. Yeah, that's a that's a good one. That's funny. Point break. Yeah. And so you didn't have this model on the screen, but also many of us didn't have this, you know, any type of nurtured either by our own mothers or fathers. And so that's how I grew up. And so it didn't really make sense to me that I'm married and my wife's asking me to share my feelings.
00:13:24
Speaker
or to do X, Y, and Z. It's like, what are you talking about? Like, how do I even do that? So I definitely wasn't raised the way that I teach and portray myself on camera now that how I am a husband and parent. So yeah, this is why it's so exciting because we're just having a lot of men to be like, you know what, I'm ready. I'm ready to put in the same type of open-minded and gross mindset that I have towards my career, towards my hobbies, into what I think is the most important thing, which is our family, our
00:13:53
Speaker
You know, the impact we have on our children, loving them and having them grow up in healthy homes. Yeah. It's interesting you said the your model for emotionality or emotional intelligence or just emotions in general. I think that's another key thing that I see a lot of men why they don't usually come to my doors for therapy is really emotions are a threat that I've seen.
00:14:15
Speaker
especially anything other than like maybe anger or aggression or dominance or strength and I think strength narrowly viewed, but any type of sadness, confusion. And so if I feel this, I think their primary way of coping with any distressing or difficult emotions is to avoid, to run, to numb, to get aggressive, right? And so, and then what happens while they come in is that that stuff isn't working for them anymore.
00:14:39
Speaker
And they're like, they're seeing issues in their marriages or their relationships, or they're not performing at work as much as they used to, or now they're having panic attacks or they're, you know, something else is happening. And so they come to me and it's because they've had enough threat. Yeah, because if I was raised in a hyper sports culture or don't feel just be strong, it's like, I couldn't feel, I couldn't feel those things there. They weren't, those weren't allowed to be expressed or safe because I was shamed or told not to be a wuss or a bunch of other. For sure.
00:15:07
Speaker
For years and years and years, right? That's a lot of imprinting on an everyday man. And then you start and this is what this is kind of funny and kind of sad. This is kind of funny that it's really hard to be a modern day man because and father because if you because if you try to use that old school style of parenting, your wife is probably not going to let you do that anymore.
00:15:30
Speaker
No. And she's going to be like, I'm watching this videos or we're going to watch this guy's videos or you need therapy. And then the man is like, what? Like I'm a freaking man. Like I'm the dad. We got to teach our kids to be tough. You're so soft. So she's doing her nurturing fostering side and then he's coming out with the strong side. And then she's telling him, you can't be a parent.
00:15:49
Speaker
And then in some cases, he doesn't do anything then, because he doesn't know what to do. Well, if I can't parent this way the way I was parented, well, then I'm going to end up not being a parent at all. And then they fight and they argue. And it's a very solvable problem. We just need really good tools. And there's ways of doing this. Yeah.
00:16:07
Speaker
And I think with that, I think they tend to get more shamed because they're doing what they know, and I'm generalizing here. They tend to do what they know, and so now I'm being told what I'm doing is not enough, and I probably already feel not enough as a man or as a failure, but I don't show that because I can't show that. So it creates this catch-22 of, you know. Yeah, super common. Yeah, it does, and then they end up doing less. Yeah, what I think, another way I think has grown in the last 10 years, especially for younger dads,
00:16:33
Speaker
is there's just a lot more kind of like victim mentality. We're like people now, because of the resources we have, we know so much more about trauma, for example, like I've specialized in trauma, but I've taught classes on it, I'm very aware of it, trauma informed. And so I can take that as a parent and I can choose now to realize, okay, let's say I've been through some trauma, my parents traumatized me, which yeah, definitely was true.
00:16:58
Speaker
And so, okay, am I going to have to choose? Am I going to be a victor or am I going to be a victim? And I don't really work with these men and that choose to be a victim. And I don't work with them because they don't call me because they're sitting in that victimhood, right? So I've only know about them, but I don't see them face to face because they're not
00:17:18
Speaker
They're not stepping out and saying, I'm sick of being a victim. I'm sick of thinking this way and just thinking I have no control over my life and my circumstances.
Victim vs. Victor Mentality in Parenting
00:17:28
Speaker
I'm going to sit in this. You know that you're moving out of that when you start reaching out for help, when you start talking to yourself, talking to your friends, talking to your loved ones and spouses about it.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, and I agree with that too, that, you know, the trauma stuff, and I'm actually trained in trauma and have some expertise in that, and I think a lot of it is, I think it's unconscious survival mechanisms. So unconscious. To survive, so it's, to even recognize that sometimes it's hard to see it. Yeah, they don't see it, yeah. Because it's like, I've always had to do this. I've always had to do it. Always, it's normal. There's no other way.
00:17:58
Speaker
There's no other way. And so it's like, anything else almost seems so foreign of like, why would I reach out for help? Because when I reached out for help before, I was... It doesn't make sense. I was explicitly shamed or told horrible things or implicitly, or I was hit or I was rejected. So I've learned when I was like, since five years old or whatever, that never doing that again. And so I think those guys unfortunately get so stuck because they're kind of stuck in that cycle of the fear, but it makes sense given...
00:18:28
Speaker
Holy makes sense. It makes logical sense. It makes so much sense. It makes so much sense to them. So yeah, I have a, my podcast, the Sean Donahue show where we're doing something creative tomorrow morning on our episode. I don't know what we're going to call it yet, but
00:18:42
Speaker
I think, let me see where my notes are, but we're going to, I'm going to do some storytelling for my own childhood and my buddy Jordan's going to do some storytelling and we're going to try to help our listeners see how easily our bad experiences from our childhood or even our childhood traumas can actually sneak into our parented
00:19:02
Speaker
thinking and our parenting actions. And we're just gonna do it because, you know, it's just so hard for people to have these light bulbs come on like when those light bulbs come on, that's very exciting. And it can be very freeing. Then you got to do something about it. But that's, that's what we're gonna do tomorrow morning. I don't know how it's gonna go because we're just gonna but I'm excited about it. Yeah.
00:19:21
Speaker
No, that sounds like it's gonna be a great episode. I think having more of those light bulb moments. And I think another reason why I want is having other men. And you said this earlier at the beginning of the episode that I think in this space of healing, mental wellness, parenting space, it is more dominated by women. And I say that not negatively, but I say that we need more men to be a model for other men to come in.
00:19:49
Speaker
And to kind of say, hey, let's equal this out by seeing, and I think hearing other men's stories, if I'm a dad listening, it's like, I could resonate. Oh, that's what Sha went through or I had that experience or that sounds a lot like mine. And so it starts to, because we changed by our stories. It pulls us in and hearing these stories, it kind of opens a door to say, well, hey, they were vulnerable. They just shared that.
00:20:13
Speaker
You know, it starts to kind of plant that stories. I think we could talk all day about the power stories, even like how do we become the way we are? You could even say we came that way because of the stories, stories that we played out, the movies that we watched, the books.
00:20:28
Speaker
We're such a primarily, this is what it means to be a man. And it's still happening right now because that's what Hollywood is really putting out there. Like what is a strong man? If you ask 10 men, probably you're going to get, I don't know, somewhere around nine, a 10 is going to say something like, you know, a man has muscles, maybe tattoos, guns, strong money. They're strong. They have obedient kids. That's not, who says that's a strong man? Like there's, what is a really good, strong man? And is yes, 10 people are going to get 10 different responses.
00:20:57
Speaker
And I think it's just like exciting time though because we're redefining what a strong man and a strong dad really is.
Redefining Masculinity and Fatherhood
00:21:04
Speaker
And I think that's the thing that we need to have a somewhat of a working definition because if we don't know what maybe a mature, healthy, holistic man dad is. Because we could all point to what's, you know, the toxic quote, right, traits. We know that is. But and I think you're right, I'm one of my old professors who does a lot of, back in grad school, who does a lot of research in this area of men and masculinities.
00:21:27
Speaker
you know, 20 plus years of research, I'm actually doing like research says that that's the part of the problem is that we can't clearly define what it means to be a good, strong, healthy, holistic man. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, we know what it is not to be. And yeah, that's easy to define. But well, yeah, that's what the scholars but that's just yeah, that's people who have, you know, some research and knowledge of that. Yeah.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, but who is yeah, it's just it's gonna be yeah, obviously it's gonna be a constant battle because Hollywood and books are always gonna keep putting out of this version of man because we like that version of man because there's some really good stuff or something I've been thinking about recently to like, you know what if I think of a really strong man, you know what? I'm I think of I would never want to be a police officer Travis like that sounds really hard. Would you want to be a cop?
00:22:12
Speaker
no way not right now it sounds really hard to be a cop and then now to be a cop today it's like it's like everyone's watching you everyone's pulling off their phone and videotaping you it's like you you can't be a cop like you like the movies of the 90s or even the 2000s you've got to like
00:22:31
Speaker
They're like redefining what it means to protect and serve. Here's what I've noticed that if you look closely, you'll actually see this, that a lot of the videos you'll see of police officers now are very positive. And if you actually listen to how this officer is talking to the person they're dealing with,
00:22:48
Speaker
Here's the theme that I'm seeing. Okay. The person they're dealing with is not like in a good spot either because they're trying to provoke the cop. Like I like some of those videos with like these guys walk into like these government facilities and they're just trying to get a fight. They're trying to get people riled up. And then the side comes, you need to leave this building's like, Oh, this is my, a, my amendment rights to be in this building. I'm like, well, why are you here? What's your name? What's your name?
00:23:11
Speaker
I'm not telling you my name. It's like there's bother. You see these videos? They're bothering or you're in the inner cities and they're just disrespecting the cops. And what do the cops do? Well, in a lot of ways how these cops are showing up is they're really showing up as really amazing parents. Now they're not parenting these people, but like what are good parents? Well,
00:23:31
Speaker
Parents are highly emotionally good parents are highly emotionally regulated they have boundaries they're there to they don't join the circus they're there to sometimes diffuse the situation so our officers have to take a ton of training on diffusing skills.
00:23:48
Speaker
on, you know, on not using force or not using their power to try to help someone who doesn't want helping. And then describing parenthood right now, right? This is like everyday parenting. How do we use our words wisely to diffuse our children, to connect with them, to not use our power, to emotion coach them? And so, yeah, props to all the officers out there and the first responders who are taking a gazillion hours of training per year on this stuff and actually using it.
00:24:18
Speaker
To for good for really emotional deregulated people out there in the world world. So thank you to everybody Yeah, no, I agree and and it's a good analogy of you know the what it means to be a parent is that you know all those things just laid out is that emotion coaching being calm cool and collected being not getting in the circus but standing back because I think sometimes as parents and even men
00:24:42
Speaker
you know, how easy it is to kind of get that tipping point of frustration and adherence and my way and you need to listen. It's not like that step into that world is not like a big step. It's really small if you think about it. In fact, I have found myself in that state of stepping into that at times. And when I look at what's driving that is often when I reflect when I've had those moments, it's often fear. It's often
00:25:07
Speaker
I feel helpless as a dad. And I really want to help, but I don't know what to do. And so I'm reaching, even though I know the skills, but I still have those moments and I'm like, hold on, Chad. Like, wait, you know these skills, take a step back. It's not, you know, slow down, but it's not a far leap, even for a trained clinician to get to that space of trying to dominate and get in the circus and get lost. Because we've seen those videos, too, of those cops who get in the circus and they get lost and they get riled up.
00:25:35
Speaker
They're in big trouble, yeah. It's a little, it's a tiny step. Yeah, you make it sound like you sound like my clients right now. Or you sound like me and I'm going to sound like my clients. You make that sound easier than it actually is. Yeah, for sometimes I agree it's a tiny step just to pick a fight with you.
00:25:52
Speaker
It'll be personally it's not always a tiny step i mean true especially if you're amazed i know i know i know around the same page i mean imagine if you're raised by a military or cop or even a fireman i've got to some of my best friends are firefighters are highly structured man highly organized highly disciplined and so you know they
00:26:13
Speaker
They think in a world of like more black and whites and submitting to their authorities and that's what they've been trained. And some of them have been even traumatized. And so and they were raised. We were all raised by some of these parents, men and women who were just trainers that we're just supposed to obey. Otherwise we get the chonkla. We get yelled at. We get punished. We get sent to boarding school. There's there's nothing I can do to help you obey. You just have to obey. And so now it's like there is like
00:26:39
Speaker
It's quite a shift in some ways to learn how to, okay, I can't force this child to obey. Well, I can, but do I want to? Why do I want to? What if I don't? What does that mean? My bad parent is my kids going to become a loser. Like if I don't make them obey, what do I do? How can I get this kid to brush their teeth or to stop picking on their sister?
00:27:00
Speaker
You know, and, and, uh, like emotion coaching them. That's, yeah, this is, I think this is why people are listening to this podcast. Cause it's so important. This were so important to move away from that military style, you know, parenting that some of us grew up with.
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. My dad was actually in the Navy. So I know. Oh, he was. Yeah. All right. Let me ask you some questions. So what was that like? What kind of parent was he? Did he, did he, did he parent you like he was in the, like you were in the Navy too? That would come out. That wasn't 24 seven, but there was definitely times that that would come out when I just wouldn't know why things like the logic, it was just like,
00:27:36
Speaker
Just must do this. And I remember as a kid, you know, cleaning my room was always a big thing. And my room being clean and bed made and things put away. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Military people freak out over that stuff, man. They're nerd apps. Like you're a loser of a kid if you don't have a clean room. That's how they think. Yeah. That was a big one. The room was every day. It was a big one. I remember a couple of times he's like, it's not clean yet. And I'm looking at the room and I'm, I don't know, I'm probably like in junior high. And I'm like, dude.
00:28:01
Speaker
I don't know, man. The room looks pretty clean. He's like, well, let me know when you figure it out. And I'm sitting there. I'm like, I don't know. Everything's clean. And now we have a great relationship now. He's done a lot of work and grown a lot. And we've done a lot of reconciliation. And he looks back. He's like, you know, Trav, I don't know. I don't know what I was thinking. So he can look back and say, yeah, that probably wasn't the best thing I did. I think he's like, I was trying to help. But looking back now, he's like, I don't think that was very effective.
00:28:29
Speaker
I have a big section of my book about type A, clean freak, military types, and I try to use humor to get through to them about how you might reconsider this whole concept of all your tightness and cleanness.
00:28:44
Speaker
You would think of all these clean freaks. I would say Navy people, they've got to be at the top. If you're in a submarine or a tiny ship, you got those nice white collars like they had in Top Gun. You know, they're all about that hygiene and that clean cutness versus the other people who, you know, are rolling around the dirt, right? Navies.
00:29:04
Speaker
Yeah, I had those moments and he's come a long way and he's loosened way a bit. I mean, so different than he was when I was younger. I mean, I think the immature parts, there was obviously good parts with him, but the stuff that was really difficult, he's really shifted. And I think with the guys you're talking, some of the dads now, what did you think is the, when they think of their coming to be a dad or a parent,
00:29:30
Speaker
What do you think their number one struggle is for them like coming to you working on this whole parenting thing of being a good dad? What do you think is like the big barrier for them? Or what do you think if you were to have them define what it means to be a good dad, is that easy for them to define?
Impulses, Powerlessness, and Emotional Awareness
00:29:44
Speaker
Is it difficult? Like first thing that I thought of because there's a lot of different ways we can answer that question and I want to ask you the same thing.
00:29:51
Speaker
What do you think of? What's a big barrier you see or a challenge you see in men? I'll go first and then you guys. That sounds okay. I think the first thing that I thought of is the word impulse, impulses. Let me tell you why. In my work, with my processes, I have these terminologies that I teach my clients. They're pretty basic terms. One is called buttons.
00:30:14
Speaker
instead of just saying I'm triggered or this kid's making me mad or angry or I'm frustrated, or as kids push my buttons, I help my clients to really get to know themselves, like what is really going on inside of you. Partly why I think my videos might be a little unique that I make on social media and my podcast is because they spend a lot of time on helping parents to ace the mindset game of parenting, how you think about certain things. Because if you don't have the right thoughts, well, then you're going to be pushing your own button.
00:30:43
Speaker
you're making yourself emotional. Like you wanna let somebody that cut you off drive you nuts, go for it. You wanna let an 11 year old dude who's got like old peach fuzz on his upper lip, like cockroach from the Cosby Show or Theo, you wanna let him, he doesn't wear deodorant, drive you nuts, well then go for it.
00:31:02
Speaker
do it. You want to let a salty 17 year old girl, you know, or a whiny six year old child drive you nuts? Well, then do it. Go for it's a free country. But you don't need to do that. Like they're children. There's different ways of setting emotional boundaries in our minds. And so but the issue at hand, though, is, you know, we all have our impulses. In parenting, you said the word powerless about five minutes ago to thrive in parenting, you've got to really understand power.
00:31:28
Speaker
How powerful you are we are so freaking powerful for we can use that power for good or for evil for positive impact and negative but also what parenting is really about because I don't think parenting is never about what it's really about it's gonna look under the surface a huge part of parenting is
00:31:48
Speaker
is feeling powerless, especially as your kids get older. Every day that passes, you're going to probably feel more and more powerless. So what is good parenting? Well, one of the ways I think you would define good parenting is your relationship with powerlessness.
00:32:05
Speaker
How do you feel when things don't go your way when your kid won't you get in the car to be on school on time earlier can there just open up to you or they're not getting off the fort night game they're playing too much. Of you know minecraft it's like how is that for the impulses are gonna come in weather we're gonna be impulse to snap and yell and command control shame name call chonkla punish yell lecture have talk.
00:32:29
Speaker
Or avoid drink people please rescue passivity avoided stone walling all these things is we were all dealing with our impulses because parenting is so emotional. Yeah i wholeheartedly agree with that it is so emotional and it's some of the most button pressing things will ever do and i think.
00:32:51
Speaker
Becoming a being a parent now. I realize really the work you're constantly faced with it's it's it's you know, I give you an algae log clients that work with like becoming a parent too is it's like I'm competing at like a playoff match level every day you're expected to perform and peak performance every single day you are you know, otherwise or else what or else your wife's gonna let you know and
00:33:16
Speaker
Right, or your kids will let you know because you're getting mad or you have low impulse control yourself or low frustration tolerance or you said some things too, you're drinking more, you're tuning out more, you're doing something else because if you're not taking care of yourself but you're expected to perform, it's gonna be really taxing. And I like what you said, to answer kind of reversing back what I hear a lot of guys is that
00:33:42
Speaker
you know, a lot of guys, I kind of go into their story of, you know, how they got to where they are today and listening to their story as a kid. What was it like in your home? What emotions were allowed? What was not allowed? What was it like in relation with your father or mother if they're around at all? And how does that impact you now? And like becoming aware of when you are, that button is pushed now in frustration. What are you actually frustrated about? What just came up for you? That's actually right.
00:34:06
Speaker
that your kid didn't brush their teeth? Or was it that, but you know, 20 other things with that similar emotional response or feeling of powerlessness that came up and now you're trying to fight against that feeling powerless as a kid and now you're trying to fight it and control because you don't want to feel powerless against it. So what is this really about? And I think that you had the nail on the head when I heard them like, yeah, absolutely. It's about something deeper under the hood.
00:34:31
Speaker
under the hood. And that's why. Yeah, that's why you can just if anyone listened to this, I just want you to have hope. Yeah, you can grow in mindfulness in grown self control. You're an amazing, powerful man.
00:34:42
Speaker
You can do all that and more. It might take some time. You could lose 10 pounds if you wanted. You could gain 20 pounds if you'd like. You can do whatever you set your mind to nowadays. It's incredible. The mind is so powerful. And yeah, it might take some time and some work and some, maybe take some therapy or some work on yourself. But yeah, it's just an amazing time to be a parent. It's just an amazing time.
00:35:03
Speaker
Yeah. A couple more questions and we'll start to wrap up. I'm thinking, when you think of the word, when you think of a dad and the dad you're working with, um, cause you know, you're coaching them and it's funny when you're doing parenting coaching, my guess is you're really, you're doing the inner work for them for sure with these guys, right? These dads and helping them, like you said, understand themselves, get to know them, which then, cause you could teach them the tools of, you know, parenting and coaching, but
00:35:29
Speaker
You know, I my guess if you leave out the inner work of them that those rules are gonna fall flat, right is my guess Yeah, one of the ways to just kind of saying what you just said One of the ways that I help dads in the parenting world is I teach them how to speak to themselves and how to speak to their kids Right and then see that's kind of try to say the same thing you said there Yeah, and normally if you really want to be the person
00:35:53
Speaker
you really have always dreamed of being, you're gonna have to learn how to speak well to both those people because parenting is just so annoying. It's just constant annoyance and disappointment and pain and just constant moments of amazingness, right? And amazing. It's just both. It's such a wild ride. I did not expect it to rock me this way. Nobody prepared me for this. That's for sure.
00:36:23
Speaker
I agree. Nothing. I read so many books on parenting in grad school and child development. And then you become one. You're like, oh, I thought I was prepared because I ran out and did things. And I'm like, not really. I mean, I was to some degree, but there's a lot that I still am learning. I'm not done.
00:36:41
Speaker
And going back to the dads real quick, what is the one thing, and there's probably more than one I'm sure, but when you hear these guys' stories because you do some of the inner work with them, what's one of the big themes standing out that what do you think they needed most when they were kids that they didn't get from their parents? Or what do you think they needed more of that you hear of? I think it's what I needed, yeah. My parents divorced when I was 11 and my dad lived in Northern California. I lived in Southern California after seventh grade.
00:37:10
Speaker
He just really wasn't a part of my life at all. So I was just on my own, you know, I had my mom and my stepdad and my buddies and my buddy's parents. But what I think is the term.
00:37:23
Speaker
You can put a lot of different terms to it, but the term that I like is emotion coaching. Just somebody to just slow down and just spend a little bit of time. And time is great. I like fishing and sports and backpacking, and I would appreciate that with my dad, some quality time.
00:37:41
Speaker
I enjoy that with my stepdad. But just taking the time to say, hey, so how do you feel about that? Or why did you do that? And just to process coaching, because what's interesting is that most men enjoy coaching their children in certain things.
00:37:57
Speaker
normally it's their own hobbies like my daughter seven she had her first basketball game and i mean i'm just freaking out with joy on the sideline she went all for one and she dribble the ball of a court a few times doesn't want to practice just see that you to play out there.
00:38:13
Speaker
Where there jersey was a small and it was like way too big for her so she look like a like alan iris iverson for like nineteen ninety five just rock in the over baggie like i have an image yeah i'm just trying to coach her in basketball and there's something inside of all of us mentorship coaching teaching power and so just channel that into a motion coaching your children and then that's gonna be hard.
00:38:39
Speaker
because they're not going to make me want to be coach or they don't like your style. They may have to adapt. You got to parent the child you have, not the child you want. It's always inside of us. This innate, you know, thing is what I did as a kid. And I think is what our today's kids need.
Impact and Legacy of Good Parenting
00:38:54
Speaker
They just need a parent to really show up and to coach them through. And this is why I think a lot of the problem with society is is I think that you could actually change the world through good parenting.
00:39:06
Speaker
And if you look at the research, too, that the man in our society is troubled the most, often have the lack of good fatherly figures and someone to mentor them. And this is actually very different than how humans have lived for centuries, depending on how old you think humans are, because it wasn't that long ago, you know, if you were a young boy or a young girl, you'd be sitting around the campfire of your tribe, whether you're tribes in India,
00:39:32
Speaker
you know, or England or China or like mine were in Ireland, you know, you're sitting around these campfires or you're coming out of your huts for these communal events and you got your uncles there, your aunts, you've got your godparents, your grandparents, it's communal living and you're all sharing life and you're not on screens and you have mentors everywhere. You're literally like round people all the time and that's how people live for a very long time. We've only been living like this for a short period of time.
00:40:01
Speaker
So mentorship, relationship, and I do agree, to change the world, we do need parents that have done some of their own healing to then pass it down to the next generation because we're raising the next generation. So we're either going to pass down similar hurts and wounds,
00:40:17
Speaker
unknowingly, maybe even unintentionally, or we're gonna pass down a healthier version, imperfectly so, but giving them something more, a little farther down the road that they'll, our kids will carry on and go farther than us. And that's my heart for my kids that, hey, I'm doing things different and being a little healthier, a little more integrated and say, here you go, here's what I am now, now I know it's not perfect, I know, but I want you to take this and run with it and keep going for your kids. And then the trickle down effect.
00:40:44
Speaker
And I do agree, the relationship we need mentors, I have a couple of mentors I turn to and people that come to me and I think how need that is to have. And especially as men, I think, what does it mean to be a man in our society? And how can we learn from the good of the past, the good qualities of what it meant to be a man as well as how do we grow from some of the maybe rigid views? And then how do we learn what it means to be a man in this society?
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah, or a dad in this society, right? And how do we kind of evolve with how the world's evolving for the better? Yeah, man. I saw a I've never told this story before, but I heard a well known pastor say something that really struck me. He said something from the stage like this, like, hey, you know, once you die, everyone's gonna forget about you. Your dad, it's over.
00:41:31
Speaker
And I was like, what kind of speech is that? Like, aren't you like a pastor? Aren't you like supposed to inspire us? And it was just kind of going off like, look, this is your life. Like, you know, when you die, people might remember you for a little bit of time and they're going to move on. And I've just been thinking about that a lot since I heard it like two years ago. And I think two things that come to mind, Travis, one is I think that's actually true. It really is true. Like 99.99% of us when we die, it's it's pretty much over.
00:41:59
Speaker
But I think that what's also true, and I think this is true for 99.99% of us, is that how I wanna change the world is through these three kids that I have. Because just saying the same thing you said in a different way, I wanna give them a healthy, happy home to grow up in. I wanna give them something that I don't feel like I had, which is two loving parents who care about them,
00:42:26
Speaker
who are coaching them, who are their cheerleaders, who are their mentors. And I want them to then pass that on to my grandchildren, who will then pass that on and pass that on and pass that on. And I think that's legit legacy. I think that my great grandkids are not going to be talking about me, but hopefully they'll be teaching their kids and parenting their kids in a way that
00:42:49
Speaker
There you know i parent my kids i think that's actual possibility cuz we see that with like generational cycles and negativity we see that through stats even and so i think we can see that in a really positive way that really like excites me. I think so too i think.
00:43:05
Speaker
It excites me. Obviously, why you're doing your work and why I'm doing my work is that it's exciting to see that we can make a change and share this information with people and build a community of people really impacting change with the people around them and their kids. I mean, just like the negative stuff, just like the painful things, why not be an advocate and endure of good, of healing, of health,
00:43:27
Speaker
of restoration right of integration of you know uh um restoring relationships that were once broken if pop you know when when and where possible if we can i know sometimes it's we don't always have that opportunity at least with the previous generation but we can work on that with our current and the next generation you sure can um and we haven't and then it's also exciting
00:43:49
Speaker
Like, you know, we're gonna be grandparents one day, hopefully, some of us. I know, I think I will. Like, that's so exciting. I'm probably gonna be more influential to my grandkids. I might be more influential to my grandkids than to my own children. Like, this is like a long game of living the human experience of influence and love and power and teaching. Like, this is so exciting.
00:44:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think so too. I'm stoked that you're stoked. Couple final wrap up questions. One, when you hear, if I were to say to be an integrated man, what do you hear? What do you think it means to be integrated as a man?
00:44:23
Speaker
Oh, integration. I think of like, you know, like a tapestry of like really getting in deep and accumulating and getting dialed in to a really healthy system. So an integrated man seems like he's really thought this through. I started his life through. He doesn't like live in the components, but he's learned how to bring all these little things together for harmony and like, and goodness. That's what I could think of. What about you? What are you thinking?
00:44:49
Speaker
You know, something I've been working through from just training and just professionally as well as my own personal development is being integrated as being aware of myself first and foremost, kind of aware of my mind, my body, my soul, kind of where, what's coming up for me in the moment. And then being able to be effective, being effective in that moment, being able to take that awareness to be connected to myself, be connected to my kids, to my wife, to my coworkers, to, so,
00:45:17
Speaker
It's like the relational in-between integration. I'm connected to you. I'm connected to Sean or whoever's in front of me. To myself, so I'm aware of myself, what's coming up for me. And then I'm able to be kind of make intentional decisions or using that word mindful, mindful decision to be effective in this moment. And effective obviously is going to be different depending on the context, but I want to be an effective man. So if I'm integrated, I can be effective. If I'm disintegrated, if I'm disconnected from myself. Disconnected.
00:45:46
Speaker
i'm not gonna sell it can be effective right no way i'm gonna be ineffective yeah and i'm gonna get stuck in maybe some of those things you talk about for you know drinking too much or numbing out or getting frustrated or all these things especially as a parent because we gotta you know it because a dad or mom is like.
00:46:03
Speaker
We're called to, you know, the image earlier again I talked about is like to perform at a peak level, you know, that this is the playoffs every day, you know, but the good news is every day is a new day and we get to we get to heal though. It's not like the end all. It's like if we lose this match today, it's not over. We have tomorrow to really try again to say, you know what, I dropped the ball, son or daughter or wife or whoever.
00:46:25
Speaker
That wasn't my best version. Let me own this, take responsibility, heal, integrate together, so we're connected and then move forward. That's what I hear. It's everything in life. Now, fun question. What are you currently spending on your record player? What's your current go-to? Oh, dude. Oh, my gosh. I love music. I listen to all types of music. I don't have this vinyl, but I'm really into EDM right now. I've got this younger friend. He's like 31.
00:46:53
Speaker
He's turned me into these awesome bands like have you heard of this? These bands called like a Bob Moses and really in the Bob Moses. It's like a dance music It's not a lot of it comes out of Europe, but they speak English or this Rufus del Sol
00:47:09
Speaker
Have you heard of this at all? I know them. The other guy I don't know, but I've heard of Rufus. Yeah, I'm jamming that a lot. And I do a little like, I got a new truck. And so I got that free Sirius XM sample. So I'm just very excited to say you're looking at the next
00:47:25
Speaker
a member of the SiriusXM membership. I'm going to do it. I'm going to pay for SiriusXM so I can get that EDM and all that music and all that. No commercials. They got a station on there called Chill. It's called Deep House. My buddy, Frankly, told me about it. There's all these different types of dance music. We don't call it techno anymore. I listened to all types of rock and
00:47:50
Speaker
Country nineties hip-hop, but that's what I'm rocking a lot right now man. Okay. How about you? What do you what do you what are you rocking? What are you spinning? Did you tell me folk music? What are you doing? Yeah. Yeah currently I think More recently spinning only because I just got to see them live I read by bought the the repress vinyl but it was the 20th anniversary edition of the postal service record and
00:48:11
Speaker
the hostel service, so clean. That 20 years, that album is incredible. I know. What's their big hit off that high? What's that big hit, Heights in the Heights? I think such great, yeah, such great Heights. Such a great one. So that's been fun and getting my kids into it and like, yeah. Yeah, because they were a spinoff from Death Cat for Cutie, which has literally like one of the best alternative songs of all time. That one song by Death Cat for Cutie. I forget it, but it was such a clean, clean listen. That was, yeah.
00:48:39
Speaker
That was a fun show. They did, they did, I saw them at Hollywood Bowl a few months back. It was, um, it was the 20th anniversary of transatlanticism record, which is the death camp. Yes. And then the postal service records. So they did both back to back, the full records from it was
00:48:55
Speaker
It was totally reliving like 20 years ago for me like, Oh, this is great. So that's what I'm listening to only because it's like, it's like, Oh yeah. Cause I just saw them. So that's, that's, that's listened to that. But, um, and it's funny and see my kids get into music because they love the vinyl. They love that. So they, uh, so final thing is where can we find you if people want to reach out to Sean and get some parenting coaching? So yeah, you can find me all over social media as the family coach. And you can find me on my podcast is called the Sean Donahue show.
00:49:23
Speaker
Very humbled and honored to say it's normally less than the top 10 of parenting podcasts in the world. And you can find me on my website, which is either savemyfamily.us or you go to parentingmodernteens.com. And yeah, that's a few ways to find me and you can learn about the ways I can support you. I got a lot of free stuff out there and I have an awesome membership. It's just totally life changing. And yeah, thanks for asking.
00:49:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, thank you. And for those listening or watching, all the direct links to Sean's information, his websites, podcasts, it's all going to be clickable at the bottom so you can easily find it. You have to, you don't have to remember that. Just scroll in the description, click on it, take you where you want to go. And yeah, please reach out to him if you need that kind of help. He's doing great work and yeah, he'd be happy to help you. So Sean, thank you for your time today, man. And yeah, we'll have to talk soon.
00:50:18
Speaker
Thanks for having me, Travis. Really, really enjoyed it.