Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Finding Purpose As Men: Why Community Matters More Than Ever
121 Plays21 days ago
In this special in-person episode, Travis Goodman and Pierre Azzam sit down for a raw, honest conversation about purpose—what it really means, why it’s so easy to feel disconnected from it, and how community plays a crucial role in helping men discover it.
Together, they explore why so many men struggle to find clarity around purpose in today’s world—and how trying to do it alone often leads to burnout, confusion, or isolation. Drawing from Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning and their own work with men, Travis and Pierre emphasize that purpose isn’t just a personal quest—it’s relational. Real meaning is forged in connection, service, and shared values.
You’ll also hear a breakdown of the 5 Ps of Purpose—a practical framework we use in The Men’s Collective to help men move from abstract goals to grounded daily action.
Key takeaways:
- Why clarity of purpose often requires community, not just introspection
- How ego and isolation get in the way of meaningful progress
- What the 5 Ps of Purpose are and how they guide men toward real momentum
Where are you searching for purpose alone—and what might open up if you invited another man into the conversation?
🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple, & YouTube or visit menscollective.co to go deeper.
JOIN THE COLLECTIVE:
JOIN THE MEN'S COLLECTIVE:
CLICK HERE
JOIN THE MAILING LIST & GET INVOLVED!
INSTAGRAM: MENSCOLLECTIVE.CO
WATCH ON YOUTUBE:
Connect and Support Travis:
YouTube: Travis Goodman
Instagram: @travis.goodman.lmft
Connect and Support Pierre:
Instagram: Braver.Man
Recommended
Transcript
Recording Together: A New Experience
00:00:00
Speaker
Well, welcome this week's episode of the Men's Collected Podcast. I love that. Yeah, I know. Those that are watching or listening, we're in the same room, which is really fun. um We get to share a space together, which is always good to to share space with a friend, be in person.
00:00:16
Speaker
We usually this virtually, but now over. can't he's so He's over there. He's over there. Although that looked, well i don't want to do that motion. i get Oh yeah. That's screwed up with my video.
Exploring Purpose: A Central Theme
00:00:25
Speaker
Yeah. So today is purpose.
00:00:28
Speaker
And that's part of, you know, Peter and I were talking about this, of what's important, what are we doing with the men right now in the collective? and And I think a big thing is purpose. And I think what, a what is our purpose? What are we trying to aim at here? And and we live in an interesting time.
00:00:43
Speaker
Yeah. I think we can say that. Yeah. I think what more talk about as men is and fathers is, What is our purpose and what are these, what are we doing here in
Men Seeking Purpose through Therapy and Coaching
00:00:51
Speaker
the collective? So yeah. What do you think is most important about this peer with this whole topic here and what we're doing in the collective? Well, I think I would start with a question to anyone who may be listening, which is when you think about purpose, what is, but it might be your own definition? Hmm.
00:01:12
Speaker
Because one of the biggest challenges, and I think something that draws many men to either seeking therapy or coaching or engaging in a men's group, certainly this is a ah massive element of the men's collective, is around around building purpose, which oh I think means a lot of different things to different people. But if we sort of look at it,
00:01:38
Speaker
as a conglomeration of many different things as opposed to just one singular massive, you know, massive entity. I think it becomes a little clearer and a little easier to identify purpose.
00:01:54
Speaker
in When you think about purpose, when you think about purpose, what sort of comes up for you? I think to comment quickly on what you said is that I think it it can, I think one of two ways, that could it could become too narrow of ah
Impact of Viktor Frankl on Understanding Purpose
00:02:08
Speaker
of an idea. Yeah.
00:02:09
Speaker
Or it could be so broad, it's like, where do I begin? It's like, ah okay. Yeah. um um On a personal where I think of purpose, always go back to a book that has made a significant impact in my life that I've read probably 10 times now that I read in my early 20s, actually with my wife.
00:02:25
Speaker
um actually we were engaged at the time we read it together in a group yeah um what's man's search for meaning by victor frankl yeah and we were part of this group and just kind of had these you know big philosophical deep life questions around purpose and meaning as it pertains to suffering yeah um and death and tragedy uh What a great way to start a pre-marriage. I'm with you. It definitely had us talking about a lot of pretty in-depth things, my wife and I. And this book had profound impact on me. I was probably mid-20s at the time. Sorry, it wasn't early 20s, mid-20s. I was probably 24, 25.
00:03:02
Speaker
So it was 15, 16 years ago. And since I've read it multiple times, it's definitely my, if I had to you know take five books with me on the Lonely Island, this would be one of them as far as I've had to choose five books. yeah um Not a long book.
00:03:16
Speaker
And if you haven't read the book, go read it. Powerful book in in a short amount of words. It's not long. It's very short, but it's all about how do we, like what keeps us going in the midst of suffering and death and pain? And how do we identify who we're called to be or meant to be in this world? And and I think what, ah again, we said this earlier, like we live in very interesting time. A lot of things are happening in the world as of yesterday and today and the past week.
00:03:43
Speaker
At the same time, I think there's If you look at history, there's been very interesting times of life. And of course, this book was written in the time of the Holocaust. And so very, of course, interesting time of a man who was put into death camps in Oshawa and Dachau, a Jewish psychologist who had to figure out survive.
00:03:59
Speaker
Yeah. And it's his honest reflections of how did these men, because they were separated by men and women, how these men survive. how do they keep navigating tremendous horror, suffering, death, tragedy, a whole bunch of things and what kept them going and why did some die?
00:04:18
Speaker
Why did some live? And what he came to this conclusion, I don't want to totally, i'm going to give it, sorry, I've been giving a little bit of the book here, but essentially what he boiled it down to, and please read it because this is not doing the book justice, but my takeaway was really how we keep, how we find,
00:04:35
Speaker
How suffering ceases to be meaningless is that we find purpose in it. And he identified in three primary ways. One first is giving yourself to something you love, a cause, something you believe in. And I think there's many causes today that people put themselves into that they identify with something bigger than self.
Purpose Beyond Self: Insights from Modern Authors
00:04:56
Speaker
It can be anything, social justice issues to, you know, green economy, to love, to kindness, to ah i mean probably thousands of things that people can give themselves to a cause.
00:05:08
Speaker
The second was the love of the other. And in this case, specifically for him, it was a love of his wife um that kept him going, that one day he would see her again. and the other was giving himself to a higher power whatever that means in this case he was jewish so he had to believe in a god and the jewish god um but of course that can mean anything to anybody But what it boiled down to is really about purpose came from something outside of self.
00:05:35
Speaker
It wasn't just about me and my wants and my needs and my desires that keep me going. So when I think of that, that's what I always go back to is is that having a why. And of course, he quotes you know Nietzsche in the book, right? Those that have a why can bear almost anyhow. So he's pulling that from Nietzsche. He was obviously well-read.
00:05:55
Speaker
arguably so I feel like some these people were far more well-read than we are today.
Meta vs Practical Purpose: The Five Ps Debate
00:05:59
Speaker
um you know, what they're reading, if not the same intelligence as we are today, if not better, I feel like some of these ancient writers, um,
00:06:08
Speaker
And so when I think of my purpose today, it definitely has to do with outside of myself. And in this case, my kids are a big reason why I do what I do. My my wife, my family, my community, that it's not about me, that it's about giving myself away in a way that has a good impact on others.
00:06:27
Speaker
It's about giving myself away to like, honestly, my neighbors, people that are different than me, that it has to be something outside of self. Cause when it's just about me, and this is what I see working with individuals as well,
00:06:39
Speaker
on a therapeutic level, when it's just about them, i think that's where we get problematic because in the end, that's where we start. that That's where hope dies. That's where we let go of things. That's where we lose focus because our self in and of itself is not enough.
00:06:58
Speaker
And i even think of modern writers today, like Dan Siegel. A really powerful book, much longer book. Go read It's called Intra Connected. Of course, Dan Siegel's famous ah for coming up with words and making his own words. One of them is Intra Connected.
00:07:13
Speaker
Love it. ah and It's a good word. Great word, great book, way more in depth, but he talks about it. Part of it is his own story too, about he had an accident on horseback riding and hit his whole story about this connection to something outside of self that we are connected to nature, to people, to beings.
00:07:32
Speaker
Great writer. If you'd love anything from Dan Siegel, go read it. And, um, But same thing, it's all about, not just about me, but about my impact on like a relational level, you and me, but also not even that, but a like environmental level, like me and my environment, nature, and then the grand scale of the world. And so, you know, he's not the first nor will be the last that talks about our connection to things outside of self. And I think truly that's where our purpose um comem from Now, this is a big meta level. I get that. I'm talking like meta, but I think that's important to talk about the meta.
00:08:08
Speaker
And I think what we do in the collective is we could probably do a little more meta because I think i think meta is fun. if so on I think we need to probably do a little more meta than I'm thinking about it. But I think we drill it down to more practical application.
00:08:20
Speaker
Like, here's like, how do we apply in our day-by-day life?
Components of Purpose: Commitments and Core Values
00:08:26
Speaker
i think that's what we're doing here with how we devise the purpose, the five Ps of purpose, is that here's how we kind of drill it down on some different planes of existence that we, I guess, more regularly, daily engage with.
00:08:42
Speaker
yeah But I think the meta is important. Well, it's huge because I think otherwise it creates too narrow a scope of even the idea of purpose.
00:08:54
Speaker
Because sometimes people both will use purpose and meaning interchangeably. Yes. And it almost feels like it simplifies purpose excessively.
00:09:06
Speaker
So Frankl defined, I think, just ah to sum it up, he sort of defined it, and he also he was focusing on men, but also...
00:09:17
Speaker
the the use of man to sort of mean human in this scenario and he had logotherapy which he devises right very much i mean he sort of described as the responsibility a man has for his own existence yeah and and that was the sort of like yeah summation of it as well as famous quotes and that was like our responsibility to life is that life asks us a question as our responsibility to answer but Yeah. Which is like, okay, meta.
00:09:44
Speaker
Very. i mean, yeah, I think so. and But it puts an onus on us to really actually create something as opposed to yeah finding something out there that's just sort of in the ether. But I think more modern kind of researched takes on purpose actually don't deviate a whole lot from Frankl's descriptor. i mean, no there was, there have been a few, a few important studies around defining the core elements or at least components of purpose. And that in many ways was the, the precursor to our using five Ps that ah I think speak to men a little more regularly.
Personal Journey with Purpose: Inward Reflection
00:10:34
Speaker
And, and a focus beyond yourself is probably the most, i mean, they're all critical, but I think the focus beyond oneself is super critical because otherwise we're at the whims of our ego, which is just yeah like so potentially a, so potentially bottomless in terms of its need for validation and love and all of the things that we find ourselves seeking without much.
00:11:06
Speaker
And sometimes without a whole lot of logic, like we can tell ourselves I'm not loved or I'm, I'm, I need more validation, even surrounded by love and surrounded by external validation. So there's something really important to the focus beyond yourself, but also the three additional elements being commitments.
00:11:29
Speaker
See if I get this right. This was done by a psychologist named Kendall Bronk, who does research for with adolescents and how they shape their own sense of purpose.
00:11:42
Speaker
And that really translates very much to core values that shape the decisions we make and also personal meaning. So not only are they values that are or goals that are important, they're important to us in a way that may stir our guts or pull at our heartstrings.
00:12:02
Speaker
But something you mentioned a little bit earlier strikes me as particularly important to men. And I think that's, I mean, it's important to people, all genders, all backgrounds.
00:12:12
Speaker
But I think for men in particular, there's so much of an emphasis on on taking action. And so in addition to something being a focus beyond ourselves, in addition to the commitments and values, in addition to um in addition to the personal element of meaning, we have to have some sense of directedness toward a goal or goals, having some clear sense of where we're headed. And I think that was the at's a core of thinking about our piece, essentially our perspective defining goals
00:12:48
Speaker
what fulfillment looks like and what a vision for future fulfillment could look like. Essentially a clear direction of where we're headed, defining the values that are so important to us and maybe the stories we tell ourselves around programming and principles.
00:13:04
Speaker
And then moving from that to ah really tapping into meaning, true meaning, what presence looks like for us, yeah what our power is all about and how we might take action.
00:13:17
Speaker
And rather than try to do that on our own, which I think is the MO for most men when we think about our own sense of purpose. I mean, i historically, when I thought about you what am I doing and where am I headed, haven't generally turned to friends and had an honest conversation like, hey, I'm struggling with this and are you seeing this in me?
00:13:42
Speaker
I've been more, and I think this probably follows pattern for that most men face. I've been more likely to turn inward, read books, jot down notes that I might never look at again, um create lists of things that I should do.
Community and Group Work: Therapeutic Dynamics
00:14:02
Speaker
And a lot of it ends up being not maybe intentionally, but but maybe unintentional performative. um I'm putting an expectation of myself. Like if I do these 10 things and I'm going to be able to look at myself as a better man or a better leader, as opposed to just defining small actions to take along the way that might actually get me there and help me to lean into the important skills, the important values, the principles that I have already. It,
00:14:36
Speaker
yeah that sort of internal stewing and listing and then not really following through or following through only to find myself feeling the same thing about myself.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah. It's jarring. Yeah. and And so without the connective piece, I think we're doing ourselves a disservice, which is why, i mean, we both been in the place of and still are in the place of working with men and helping men one-on-one.
00:15:07
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But I think individually, one of the important things that brought us together was that we identified the, the not just the importance, but the necessity of men doing this work together. Yeah.
00:15:22
Speaker
Because not only is the purpose work, the purpose work itself is not frivolous. mean, there's a, a, substantial amount of research that supports a positive association of having a strong sense of purpose to um improve physical health outcomes and mental health outcomes, certainly, and quality of life related and quality of work and connectedness to our own sense of um our work and one another.
00:15:56
Speaker
So there's no doubt that having a sense of purpose is important. But there are all these sort of expectations that we might place upon ourselves that sometimes get in the way of our actually connecting to a true sense of purpose.
00:16:10
Speaker
And maybe the quickest way to cut through that is to be in a to be in connection with another man who's able to say, hey, I see where coming from. And also, you're really good at this and you may not realize it.
00:16:24
Speaker
Or I really appreciate the way you show up in this way. Or actually, you've had you've done this before and it didn't actually fill your cup. Or at least my experience of you was very different than you might expect of yourself. So having the kind of positive and sometimes the negative reinforcement around um around action and service of purpose is actually really helpful to staying on track, to building track, staying on track and steering back on track when you veer away.
00:16:57
Speaker
You hit a point, so many points, but one that stood out to me is this idea and notion concept that we want to use of in community doing this together. And I think even, go back to Viktor Frankl's work, like he was in,
00:17:11
Speaker
very unique situation, but he was still in community with other men yeah in these camps. And so they found a way to navigate it together. um It wasn't an isolation.
00:17:22
Speaker
It wasn't alone. It was in relationship yeah that they found a way to bond and find and support one another. And in other ways find even dark humor in their situation to to keep their humanity. And so I think something that I've, that we do here at the collective is it's, it's in relationship, that it's something, again, you, you said this earlier that we've done individual work with men and what brought us, one thing that brought us together was that the power of doing in relationship and community, not alone, that isolation.
Challenges in Finding Connection Spaces for Men
00:17:55
Speaker
and it's funny because even a lot of men even I think struggle with when you think of group, it's like, no, I'm good. I don't do good in group or whatever it is their their thought is. And I'm like, it's funny because that's actually probably what you need most yeah is the power of group, which is way, if I'm honest, more powerful than you or I. Yeah. but yeah Way more powerful than you or I. um And I've actually seen that manifest in group with guys that I kind of sit back And they take over and the power of the other men sharing and showing up is actually more like a better word, therapeutic than me giving some speech or saying something powerful.
00:18:33
Speaker
hundred percent. And so I think we saw that now getting, I think, seeing that this is important as it a whole at the thing, because we're coming against some barriers of our masculinity and what it means to be a man and a community relationship. do we, what's the value around that?
00:18:49
Speaker
But I can't say that, you know, I can't speak enough of the power of relationship and doing this in a group, in a community setting and and the power of accountability and not being shamed, not being one up and saying, hey, we're all trying to figure out this identity and purpose altogether. And what a better place to do it as we kind of wrestle with with with this concept together and push forward together. And that's where we're doing at The Collective.
00:19:13
Speaker
Yeah. As we're generating this space where we can do this together, we can wrestle with these big meta topics as well as the practical daily applications of how this shows up in our life, whether we're a dad with young kids or dad with kids at the house or not just a guy, whatever whatever it looks like for you in your context, that there's something to this about finding a sense of our footing and grounding and direction in a life that can often pull us in a multitude of directions at any given moment, as soon as we see, you know, a notification on our phone.
00:19:46
Speaker
Very much. Yeah. You know, we even, we even recognize early that our doing this together, you and i is a reflection of the fact that ah this work is not really meant to be the imposition of one person, one man's values or one man's ideas upon a group, which we see a lot of actually in men's groups, a fair amount.
00:20:19
Speaker
And it's
Facilitating Conversations Among Men
00:20:21
Speaker
compelling. but It's also very risky in that it's easy for a man to say, okay, this guy leads a team of, or leads a group of hundred men.
00:20:32
Speaker
They must see something in him. And therefore I'm putting aside my own knowledge and wisdom of myself in an effort to be taught as though I don't have the, as though I don't have answers for myself.
00:20:49
Speaker
And that is counter our approach. I think one of the things we've identified is the more we lean into one another's experiences,
00:21:01
Speaker
um And also the more we step back and invite conversation, the important conversation that most of us need to be having, but really are not because we don't have the space for it here or an invitation for it, frankly.
00:21:19
Speaker
Unfortunately, the spaces for connection are for men few and far between. And when they are there, they're often, there's often a, An experience that might be limiting either stigma or one-upmanship competition, not friendly competitions important.
00:21:40
Speaker
Um, I think for many men's relationships, but the but competition around proving oneself as opposed to connecting and maybe challenging one, our own opinions and our own ideas in the name of growth.
00:21:58
Speaker
That's a limiting thing. When our focus is turning the attention back upon us as opposed to listening to one another, really understanding one another and helping one another truly, we're doing each other a disservice.
Encouraging Introspection and Unique Contribution
00:22:12
Speaker
And so a big element of our work and a big element of this podcast really is is facilitating conversation, ushering in ideas, inviting questions.
00:22:25
Speaker
which is why it's so important as opposed to just sort of sitting back. You might be listening while you're driving or listening on a run or just hanging out.
00:22:37
Speaker
but It's so important to be able to stand step back and ask yourself, how does this relate to me? And what it is what does this mean for my own life, my family, for my work, for how I show up?
00:22:52
Speaker
Yeah. And so you're right. I think those questions are great to ask ourselves here. And depending on wherever you might be today, as period mentioned, part of our DNA at the collective is that we got, we kind of go deep in this is, and we really start to define it and, and it's going to be different for every man.
00:23:09
Speaker
Um, but this is a big part of the foundations to which we kind of operate out of and, Because we kind of need to know where we are because depending on where you are today, you might be going, have gone through major transition. You might be going through transition and some men today, these questions that we've asked or posted, it might cause some stress, might cause some worry.
00:23:32
Speaker
Other, it might raise up some some some sense of confidence that they're really in alignment. And this is going to vary between those two ah poles, if you will, and somewhere in between. And you can ask yourself, where are you really today?
00:23:45
Speaker
as you heard that question, these questions, and what's sparking, what's rising up in you right now as you're even hearing us talk. um And the invitation is to kind of go with that. Keep going.
00:23:58
Speaker
That's the invitation. um And what we do, again, in the collective is we really hit that. We really go deep with that. We really help define that. Now, we don't define it for you. We just create some structure and questions around it to help you define it for you because it you have to define it.
00:24:15
Speaker
no man I can't define some other man's purpose as, as again, ah full circle. As Frankel mentioned, life asks you the question just like it asks me the question, and it's up to me, my responsibility, to then answer back just like it's Pierre, just like it's yours.
00:24:32
Speaker
And that's actually what I think the world needs is for each man to answer that question because what you have to offer is uniquely different than what I have to offer versus different than what you have
Engagement Invitation: Reach Out to the Hosts
00:24:43
Speaker
to offer.
00:24:43
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And yet we're still asked the question, whether we want to be asked or not, it's still there. And so today my encouragement to you is whatever cord was struck, whatever question arose, whatever thought or emotion got activated, sit with that.
00:25:03
Speaker
Ask the questions, shoot us a conversation. you can always email us at info at themenscollective.co if you've got a question. We're here. um If you want to go deeper, check us out at menscollective.co. Um, any final thoughts besides that? No, reach out to us.
00:25:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We're at info. We're info at menscollective.co and we're also at menscollective.co. Just reach out.