Transcript
Speaker: know, the funny thing is most of us don't feel burdened by other people seeking support from us. No. Or even just sharing their experience. And so acknowledging that support doesn't have to be burdensome.
Speaker: and fact, the burden is quite often felt when people are not in the know, when they have to guess, hey, what's going on with that person? Or things get out of hand and they reach a place where No one can help you through it. Well, welcome everybody back to this week's episode of the Men's Collective podcast.
Speaker: ah Yeah, if you listen to the previous episodes, um if you haven't checked it out, we go over kind of the our five P's of purpose, um which kind of sets the ah good foundation of what we're here, what we're really about here at the Men's Collective.
Speaker: um Just go back, check them out. They're short, not long. You know, if Pierre can listen to it. Anyone can. That's true. Yeah. into too much detail about that. That's very true.
Speaker: But yeah, go check those out. And I think it's helpful to know where we define a bit more and kind of explore a bit about these these topics and concepts. And I think it gives a little more context, little more nuance to what we mean. And if you listen to it you'll get a good idea of okay, this is kind of what these guys are about, what the collective is about, or kind of where we're going and our thoughts.
Speaker: And today, kind of could take a continuing just directions of talking about what we're doing in the collective and topics that um intrigue us, inspire us, topics that the the men in the collective want to hear about or are interested in or are learning about.
Speaker: And this particular topic is that on... seeking support, um offering support as men. And so that's a that's a topic, I think, in in and of itself. big topic So what's just coming up for you, Pierre, as I just even say that?
Speaker: well it's a Yeah, it's a big topic. yeah And it's true, if I can listen to it, and anyone can, I ah struggle with maintaining attention, especially on longer things like podcasts. But i I like that we can touch upon and talk about these really important topics that that sometimes don't get addressed. And today's topic is a pretty big one. I mean, we've brought up the idea of support repeatedly on in cohorts and in the collective. And even for men who've done it and been been in the collective for some time, it's challenging.
Speaker: We've not really gotten a lot of modeling of what support can look like sometimes even the terminology ah can feel challenging like what does it mean to actually get support does that mean that i have to be in a crisis does it mean that i need something to be fixed or fixable does it mean that i'm going to be so vulnerable that i'm going to put myself in a position of um either burnt burdening somebody or making me feel like i'm weak and the
Speaker: The answer to that really should be no at our baseline, at at the core. But without some framework and without some structure, it's really hard to to approach support in a way that feels safe and familiar. It takes some time.
Speaker: Because usually when we ask about who might need support or what support you might need today, we kind of get crickets. We get some silence. And I'll be honest, i'm I also get like, I don't know, I'm finding even my body is sort of like responding in a funny in a funny way where I might choke up or feel hot.
Speaker: Sort of like monitor. Or like you're in trouble or something. Like I'm in trouble. Or that feeling too. yeah that That feeling where the the it's like a tunnel vision. Everything's tunneling in. Yeah, for sure. like Oh, I'm sinking.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. again Yeah, I usually like a knot in my throat, get really hot, turn red, that sort of thing. And so, mean, I can appreciate how difficult it is to even approach the idea of support.
Speaker: But it's not really... necessarily about asking for ah solution or advice, but for many, many of us, think that can feel like the only way for us to help.
Speaker: And so instead in the collective, we focus on creating the space and the environment to promote honest, vulnerable shares and really get honest about what support could look like, how it may show up in different ways,
Speaker: And um how it can feel a little more comfortable. familiar i mean Maybe if not even comfortable, a little more familiar.
Speaker: Because I think, I mean, I've certainly had and I think many men can relate to this. I've had a lot of situations in my own life where things were getting out of control or really challenging and nobody knew about it.
Speaker: And by the time it became a a big thing, reaching out felt like such a burden and a difficulty. And so part of this is acknowledging how we might seek support before shit hits the fan.
Speaker: Yeah. And what are some of the common, um because I've had that experience too, of like not sharing. even as a trained therapist, clinician coach, like it's like, I've even had moments.
Speaker: And I brought this up in the collective earlier this year, earlier this year, i had a moment that I was, i kind of kept it in. didn't share and had the tumultuous anxiety spiral in my own self for a good solid week. And I'm like, what what am I doing? And then I finally reached out because I knew that I needed that. But, and for me, I think my initial barrier for a lot of men, I think, and even though I've done a lot of work on this personally, i had a moment where I was feeling, I don't, I don't want to be seen as a failure as being weak or or that I'm and not enough.
Speaker: And I'm wondering if that's kind of what we tend to hear with a lot of men or if what else do we tend to hear as barriers for men seeking support or asking for it? That's a big one. Not feeling like a failure or maybe not sparking judgment.
Speaker: Yeah. Probably the biggest one, and Travis, I'm curious if you hear this a lot as well, it's around burdening other people. Oh, yeah. big I don't want to burden my spouse or my family or my friend, my partner.
Speaker: I hear that a ton. Like, I don't want to burden. They're already burdened. I don't want to add more to that. yeah That's actually, I think, the most common, I feel like. that I think so, too. Yeah.
Speaker: With a little bit of shame in there. It's like burden plus i don't want to be seen as a failure. but I think that burden one is like I really don't want to put pressure on l others. Yeah. You know, the funny thing is most of us don't feel burdened by other people seeking support from us. No. Or even just sharing their experience.
Speaker: And so acknowledging that support doesn't have to be burdensome. In fact, the burden is quite often felt when people are not in the know, when they have to guess, hey, what's going on with that person?
Speaker: Or things get out of hand and they reach a place where no one can help you through it. um And so often it's helpful to think about what the alternative could look like and how burdensome that might be if that's a if that's the fear around burden it's often more burdensome to withhold yeah yeah but i generally find after people provide or seek support and provide receive support the same goes for me that i don't feel
Speaker: burdened by other people and people generally don't describe feeling burdened by my seeking of support. I think the other barrier is often, well, what are they going to do about it?
Speaker: They can't fix the situation. They can't give me a job. They can't create more. opportunity they can't fix my medical diagnosis but again that's only that's a small fraction of the type of support that we can get from other people the fixing yeah even the advice Like, you know, that's not actually what we where we focus attention when we invite men to seek support or offer support. We don't.
Speaker: In fact, we discourage giving unsolicited advice. Yeah, but we do. I think that sometimes comes later and usually from an ask when someone's asking for it. Like, here's what I i need and guidance.
Speaker: But I think a lot of men do get stuck in that initial advice, giving solution focus. Let me give a solution. Because I think we want to feel competent and helpful. I think it comes from a good place. At least when I've done that the past, it's usually coming from a place if I i do genuinely want to help.
Speaker: And I've also heard from men sometimes it's like, well, that's what they know how to do. They don't and they might even feel uncomfortable with sitting and not doing anything or having a solution or fixing. And I've done a lot of couples therapy work in this too. And a lot of typical couples, it's like, typically the guy will want to help the wife and give a solution. The wife typically will say, just want you to listen.
Speaker: I want you just to hear me. And the guy's like, What do you mean? Like, why? You need a fix here. So they want to fix it. They want us to, they want to and and and it's like, well, and when I teach the men typically in these types of typical relationships, no, teaching the guy typically, it's like, no, just just listening, like putting your arm around her.
Speaker: And really what that is is that you're offering, this is kind of based on polyvagal theory, co-regulation, a presence of being with someone can often help calm the nervous system down.
Speaker: And often that's the fix in the moment, which enables the person to come up with their own conclusion of what they need to do. Now that might eventually lead too what are some steps I could take, but initially it's like, and I also akin this to parenting. And another example is like parenting is like often when a kid is in distress,
Speaker: for whatever reason, they bump their knee, they're hungry, they're tired, their brother just stole their toy, you know, I don't know, they whatever, is you start with just meeting them with where they are. not at what they should be doing differently.
Speaker: Well, you shouldn't have done that. Now no we could do that, but that's not going the kids. not feel any better. But often it's like just kneeling down, telling the kid I'm here, man, I'm so sorry you're hurting. Yeah, that's kind of sucked that that happened, huh?
Speaker: Because what I found with my kids is when I do that approach, like, man, I'm so sorry your brother took your toy. That kind of, man, that sucks, man. And what they tend to do through their tears is like, they kind of, yeah, it does suck.
Speaker: And then they calm down versus like, well, you shouldn't have done in this. It's like it's going to just make that emotional state drive much farther because they don't need a solution in that moment. They just need to be heard and listened to and and joined with.
Speaker: I think that's the biggest thing that a lot of typical men, generally speaking, I think we're generalizing here, generally a lot of men, I think deep down know that to be true because that's what they need. But I think also deep down they've found ways because they didn't either receive that or weren't taught that they they found their own way of navigating their own emotional distress around support.
Speaker: Sure. Sure. know I said a lot there, but that's just, was thinking. Yeah. Most of the time that's what we do need. We need to be not alone.
Speaker: Yeah. And not judged. Yeah. And that's really the the focus. And that's part of why creating a framework that invites a share around my own experience, what's happening internally, more on my experience of emotion, behavior, thoughts, is so much more important than the external details.
Speaker: Like the content. Yeah. Well, I think that's what happens often too when we do normally share with one another or when we do normally describe what's happening in our lives.
Speaker: That there's so much of a focus on the external details that actually miss the impact of the connection and the share itself. Yeah. And so much of the focus on an open share, at least for us within the collective is around What is happening internally?
Speaker: yeah And maybe what type of support might be most valuable? And I i think that's something we can um that we can certainly go into. But sometimes ah that is just being witnessed, really having another person sit with us.
Speaker: paying attention to the words we're saying as well as maybe what we're not saying yeah what's coming up internally for them what they might see in us maybe we don't see body language facial expression energy and from there then We get the opportunity to define what type of support we personally, I might need.
Speaker: Yeah. Sometimes it is just being able to let someone know this is what's happening in my life. Again, you don't need to fix it. I'm not even asking you to fix it.
Speaker: I just want you to know yeah and be here with me. I want you to witness with me, right? and Be present. yeah Which can be very unburdening. Very. Especially with ah someone who's non-judging, who's listening, who's fully present.
Speaker: it can alleviate so much of what someone's carrying because you might be the first person the person shared it with. That's been my experience at times when I've finally shared something. It's like the burden is often because I haven't, like to your point is I haven't shared it.
Speaker: And, or maybe when I did share it, I was more kind head up share content share yeah and still kind of very much cut off from the, the, the bodily emotional physiological impact of what's really going on.
Speaker: And I think what we're doing here in the collective is really trying to do yes, we're not negating that the head, the content, i think we need a bit of that to understand, but it's more so, like you said, that deeper stuff, which is really what we're needing is that presence and that connection that um I'm sharing the burden with.
Speaker: I mean, like I'm not carrying this burden alone. There's someone else that can carry this with me. And that lightens the load and i can't tell how many times when people in my office have sat down and i've had this experience too where they finally say it and like oh just saying it feels like and actually saying what they're really feeling about it not just the content it's like and they're listened to and say wow that's really hard or just a simple phrase like wow just like ah validation of phrase like dang that sounds stressful or wow it's really heavy or it's just amazing. people You see people sigh, their their shoulders relax, their face, like everything just kind of loosens because like, oh, I don't have to like fight to like be hurt understood or listened to.
Speaker: Well, it's big. Yeah. Also, I think I want to comment on the unburdening. Yeah. Because the unburdening doesn't mean that the other person burdened automatically.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. Well, another massive part of of seeking and providing support, in particular seeking support, is that you're the one in the driver's seat around what type of support or what you might want in return.
Speaker: I think what feels often burdensome what feels often burdensome is being met with what's happening in my life and feel or in another man's life and feeling like or thinking I don't know how to help them.
Speaker: Yeah. Making assumptions about what he's going through, putting yourself in his shoes, maybe trying to fix. But if he doesn't want that, then that actually is not so helpful.
Speaker: Or if you're approaching it from your own value set without knowing the man and what he needs or what he's looking for, that feels that can feel burdensome.
Speaker: And so part of reducing the burden is also saying, man, i I'd love for you to give me your thoughts. Or I know you might have had a shared experience.
Speaker: yeah You might have had an experience where you also went through a divorce. It was different. But I get curious about how you navigated it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's a direct ask though. That's like the guy asking. It is a direct ask. Yeah. Yeah. Which is in the different pieces. is You're asking for it. Right. Which could be helpful. Because then it's like and we get we get a different perspective.
Speaker: Yeah, i' wondering you ask yeah so exactly. It's on me to ask. yeah But I think even teaching men to ask is okay. right That's a big thing. it's like very much like That's the one big barrier in a lot of men that we worked with in the collective and even just outside of the collective has been it been that going back to the beginning of our conversations, I don't want to burden someone because it goes back to, well, if I ask, I'm burdening someone. So it creates this kind of catch-22 that...
Speaker: yeah it's the It's kind of this lied entrapment like thing that cycles that we know is not really true. But at the same time, ju I do want to caveat this. that I know men have also asked for support and and done it and and it was met with not. And so our bodies are really good at remembering, hey, don't do that again.
Speaker: And our nervous system's like, F no, like don't do that. Don't ask that question again because when you did, well, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, whatever happened to you. So yeah, don't do that. So I think there's, it's very real for a lot of Um,
Speaker: um And I know we're trying to keep these more punchy and short, so I'm mindful of the time. We're going to do a part two to this. where we're goingnna we're gonna We're going to dissect our framework in the next episode. And so we're going to go through, and this is kind of a little intro, and you know what I like about these conversations, Piers, is that we get to kind of drop some punchy things and make people think.
Speaker: um And then we're going to do a part two to this, though, specifically, that if you want to know kind of a bit how we do it in the collective and the framework that we've developed to teach how to seek and receive and offer support definitely listen in the next episode because we're going to just break down each step um for you to listen and if it helped just to be helpful to give you guys a framework to to do this um that we teach that we we also do our best to practice as well not perfectly but it's a it's a framework to practice um
Speaker: Yeah, any closing thoughts for today? I mean, this is a, I know a big topic that we're just kind of scratching in a bit and tossing ideas, but any any like takeaway, like if you wanted to leave someone with a thought or a something to make them chew on, what would you want to say about this one?
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's more a question. If you're going through something in your life right now or in the past, what is it that you'd actually want from another man who's close to you, who cares about you?
Speaker: Ooh, that's a good one. That might help. Do I like that one? Yeah. Well, it might help to identify yeah what you're seeking and maybe more importantly, what you're not. You're not asking a man to fix your problems.
Speaker: You're not asking a man to change something that can't be changed, frankly. And that's where, understandably, there might be hesitation. There might be be a sense that what I'm asking for is actually a burden.
Speaker: When in fact, it's not what you're asking for is another man to be in the know potentially to understand where you're coming from to be with you.
Speaker: So, yeah. And some of you, by the way, asking a question, I love that question. mean, cause I'm like, Oh, that's wonderful. And some of you initially hearing that my initial say, i don't know. That's fine too. yeah And that's fine.
Speaker: I think. And there's a whole other, could probably talk about too differently, but I mean, that's a, the I don't know isn't is totally fine and okay and makes sense.
Speaker: A hundred percent. Yeah. So with, so with that, um yeah. See you guys next week with where we break down kind of our little model that we devised and developed and use in our, in our collective.
Speaker: Yeah. If you want more information, go to menscollective.co, go to the Instagram account, menscollective.co. um Do have an email address people have questions? I should know this. Do we have an email?
Speaker: Do not have an email? Oh, that's a great question. um We'll make an email. The email address will be something that I put in the show notes that if you have questions, you can email us. Coming to bd TBD, TBD, TBDetermined.
Speaker: but Beautiful. here Always been good. Likewise. Thank you.
