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067 - Breaking the Silence: A Rape Crisis Counselor on Healing, Shame, and Hope
16 Plays2 months ago
What happens when two men dare to speak openly about one of society’s most taboo topics—sexual abuse? In this raw and deeply moving episode of Vulnerability Muscle, host Reggie D. Ford sits down with Robert Uttaro, a veteran rape crisis counselor and author of To the Survivors, for a powerful dialogue that challenges cultural narratives, dismantles shame, and offers real pathways to healing.
Robert shares how a college class on women in the prison system—and a divine calling—launched his life’s mission to support survivors of sexual violence. He explains why survivors often struggle to come forward, how shame and invalidation compound trauma, and the importance of consent, ethics, and agency in storytelling. Reggie opens up about his own experience with childhood sexual trauma, highlighting the damaging myths around masculinity and the healing power of vulnerability.
From the emotional impact of first disclosures to the life-saving importance of simply being believed, this conversation is a sacred, soulful exchange filled with compassion, faith, and truth. Whether you're a survivor, supporter, or simply seeking to understand, this episode is a beacon of light in a world that too often looks away.
This isn’t just a podcast—it’s a lifeline. Press play and join two men who are reshaping the conversation around trauma, vulnerability, and what it means to truly heal. 🎧 Listen now and share with someone who needs to hear it.
Contact Info:
Website: www.robertuttaro.com
Email: info@robertuttaro.com
Book: To the Survivors (available on Amazon and free on his website)
🔹 Host: Reggie D. Ford
Website: www.reggiedford.com
Instagram: @reggiedford
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/reggiedford
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Stance on Sexual Abuse
00:00:00
Speaker
The truth is that you are not blamed for being sexually abused. The truth is that there's nothing you did that made someone hurt you. That is solely the responsibility of someone who chooses to hurt another.
00:00:11
Speaker
It not only impacts people so deeply, it it not only impacts people in so many different ways, it does it for so long. The time that it's affecting their mind, their self-esteem, again, their actions, their schooling, their relationships. It's so much damage on one act from a human being that chose to do it.
Podcast Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to Vulnerability Muscle, the inspiring podcast, challenging norms and helping you redefine vulnerability as a strength. I'm your host, Reggie D. Ford. Each episode of Vulnerability Muscle dives into a variety of topics such as mental health, social issues and mindset shifts.
00:00:49
Speaker
We explore the power of vulnerability and fostering meaningful connections. healing, building resilience, and promoting personal growth. Sometimes these conversations are uncomfortable, but good workouts often are.
00:01:04
Speaker
So join us and flex that vulnerability muscle. Welcome to this episode of Vulnerability Muscle. I'm your host, Reggie D. Ford. And today we have a a tough topic that we're going to discuss, but you know those tough topics, those tough conversations, they're like hard workouts. And and that's what we do here on Vulnerability Muscle.
00:01:23
Speaker
I got a guest today, Robert Utaro. is currently in his 17th year as a rape crisis counselor and a community educator. Inspired by his undergraduate studies in criminal justice, he continues to embrace a lifelong commitment to activism and advocacy for survivors of sexual violence.
00:01:42
Speaker
Serving as a counselor, Yutaro supports rape survivors and their significant others through mental, emotional, and spiritual spiritual and legal issues.
Counseling Approach and Book Discussion
00:01:52
Speaker
He also facilitates workshops that unpack the realities of sexual violence and offer strategies for support and prevention with a focus on healing.
00:02:02
Speaker
Robert has been featured in magazine publications across the country and on international radio broadcasts. Through the grace of God, Uttaro's work and his book, to the survivors To the Survivors, continues to impact people's minds and hearts globally. Robert, welcome to Vulnerability Muscle. how How's your heart today, my friend?
00:02:24
Speaker
My heart's feeling well. to im very blessed to be with you this morning and and for you to share. give me the opportunity to speak about these issues. So I'm feeling great, man. How are you? i Thank you for asking. i my My heart is full.
00:02:38
Speaker
My heart is full. This is a conversation I've been looking forward to ever since it got on the schedule. I think it's something that is important to talk about and especially important to talk about between two men.
00:02:50
Speaker
um I think that is something that we don't see often, a conversation
Thoughts on Vulnerability and Personal Growth
00:02:54
Speaker
like this. And so um'm I'm one, grateful for the opportunity, grateful for the work that you do, the person that you are, and for being here with me today.
00:03:04
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, man. I want to open it up first before we dive into just some of the the work that you do and the inspiration behind that with a segment I like to call what comes to mind.
00:03:15
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And so these are three questions. You let me know the first thing you think about, whatever you can. And it could be short, it could be long, it could be a story, it could be a word. So you let me know.
00:03:27
Speaker
What comes to mind when you hear the word vulnerability?
00:03:34
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it's the work that I do. It's, it's people that vulnerability is, is, is terrifying for people. It's actually really scary. And it's essentially, in my opinion, or my experience, people showing their true self, um, and, and, and being vulnerable to open up about something that is deep within them, something that most often is incredibly painful to them and to trust someone enough to show their pain, their flawed self, their lack of perfection, um their shame.
00:04:14
Speaker
And so it's it's it's vulnerability, something deep, it's something ah so terrifying, but it's something that actually once people do it and experience it and someone treats them well, that I see lives change and it's as terrifying as it is, it's ultimately a beautiful thing. It's, it's, it's, it's a great thing that can be quite beneficial in one's growth and healing process.
00:04:36
Speaker
Wow. Thank you for sharing that. And if in this conversation, we kind of spoke to this before we hopped on, but if anything, if the vulnerability that is shared feels terrifying, feels unbearable and you can't go, or you want to deviate and pivot, please feel free to let me know. And we, we definitely, I want you to feel comfortable in everything that you share.
00:04:58
Speaker
I appreciate it. That's a good way to actually, if if I may, just to give a warning for anyone who's listening that this is is a difficult topic. And so if someone is upset or stressed or even triggered that maybe they should turn this off or maybe go to it later in life, um you know, do what's safe for you in this space now and even after while listening.
00:05:20
Speaker
Absolutely. Thank you for that. Robert, what do you do to center yourself, ground yourself if you're feeling overwhelmed, stressed, or maybe even depressed? For me, it's prayer. For me, it's it's being alone with God.
00:05:37
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And it's music. it's it's My spirituality is is so connected to my love of music. And so ah being able to block out so many things in the world and just to focus on God, to focus on Jesus for myself, and to focus on music.
00:05:53
Speaker
ah strengthens me, it centers me, it motivates me and it inspires me. And i need to also let go of the heaviness. And I just have fun with my wife, I found my stepdaughter, we watch like stupid shows a lot of the time, and we just laugh like a ton. So laughter is also essential.
00:06:10
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Oh, man, I think there's there's an overlap with that music piece and laughter. I think laughter sounds like music to me oftentimes. And it's said that that melody and music is the universal language or it's the universal language that connects us all.
00:06:26
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And so I think that's a beautiful thing that that feels spiritual in itself
Personal Background and Influences
00:06:31
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to me. So to know that those things all align for you is ah is a beautiful thing. Last one, Robert, what is one of your favorite childhood memories?
00:06:42
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Got to dig deep in the vault for this one. One of my ah favorite childhood memories would probably be like going basketball camp as a kid.
00:06:55
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i love I love basketball. I played basketball my whole life. ah Just being able to play, learn from other people, learn with other kids. And those were just fun times for me. Yeah.
00:07:06
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And actually with music, going to concerts. So what am I saying? Yeah, like going to live shows is just the best to me. so And I still do it now and I'll do it. My wife's like, where are you going? I'm like, I'm going to a concert. She's like, what?
00:07:18
Speaker
So I'll be doing this till I'm, you know, and as long as I can, I will go to live music. So what was the, do you remember the first concert you went to? Yeah, I listen all kinds of music. I also listen i listened to heavy metal. So the first show I went to was It was Korn. It was Limp Bizkit. It was Ice Cube.
00:07:39
Speaker
It was a German band called Rammstein and a band called Orgy. It was like a family value show. it was all five bands. ah Well, all four, all five artists, including Ice Cube and all on the same stage. And I think I was in eighth grade.
00:07:52
Speaker
Wow, that's dope. That's dope. That's cool. It sounds like like music is a huge part of your life. Can you talk about some of the other influences, some of the people, maybe some of the other things, basketball, ah that that influenced you as you were growing up? and And I hear a Boston accent. So in Boston, is that right?
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, I apologize. You have to listen to my accent in this in this interview. So if you don't understand something I say, please ask me to repeat it. The the letter R is not in my vocabulary. That's hard because both of our names start with the R. Reggie, I can take it's, uh, you know, it's, it's anything after. So I'll try my best. I got you.
00:08:33
Speaker
It's like, uh, not like Martha, it's Martha. Ah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:40
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah. Tell me a little bit about some of those influences growing up. Oh yeah. I mean, both of my parents are incredibly hardworking people. Uh, My grandmothers were so nice. my they they They were all hardworking people in my life.
00:08:56
Speaker
They've always loved me, treated me well. I have four older siblings, so I've learned from them. I try to tell people too, like everything's a learning experience, good and bad. So ah I've had, you know, throughout my life, I've had teachers. I grew up Catholic.
00:09:11
Speaker
I have had ah great friends. Friends in many ways are like family to me. You know, they can they're even closer to me than than some family members. And as life goes on, you just, you know, with sports and and work, I've learned a lot in the business world.
00:09:26
Speaker
And then I became a teacher. So just learning from teachers and learning from kids, I learned a ton from kids to this day. And being open to people's experiences, having podcasts like this, reading, you know, watching interviews, listening to people differing opinions, being a rape crisis counselor. i mean it's changed my life completely. So all these things have really helped me and shaped me.
00:09:49
Speaker
into who i am and hopefully i can continue to listen and grow and evolve as a human. Wow. You said that everything is a learning experience, good or bad. Is that a mentality and mindset that you've always possessed or can you remember someone teaching that to you?
00:10:08
Speaker
Well, I don't always react the best way. So, like you know, when I get angry in a job or I get upset or whatever it is people wouldn't say I think that way in the moment. But it ultimately is true. So, you know, you learn, i used to work at an agency where I had, I had like the best boss I've had really bad bosses. They weren't effective at all. So you learn how to manage, you know, so this, like life isn't easy.
00:10:35
Speaker
And so even though something's super stressful, I try and to tell my stepdaughter this, you're going through some struggles now, you're going through like misery right now, but you don't even know what it's preparing for like later in life.
00:10:46
Speaker
So, In the moment, do I think that way? Probably not. But looking back on life, yeah, I would say that you – people always ask, they're like, so what do you want to do in life? that I say it's just as valuable to know what you don't want to do.
00:11:00
Speaker
It's just as valuable to know what you don't want to do and what you truly despise hate, something you're not called for. That's, in my opinion, just as valuable. Mm, that's real.
00:11:11
Speaker
i think i tell I tell folks when I talk a lot that when I was a kid, I had I had three goals, like three big goals that were driving me One was to to graduate from high school because ah hadn't seen that from my parents.
00:11:27
Speaker
um Another was, and and it goes to your point of things that I didn't want to do. I didn't want to have a child before i was, you know, an adult and I didn't want to go to prison.
00:11:39
Speaker
And so I saw the I saw what a life like that could turn into. And I didn't want that life for myself. And so though it wasn't a definitive do this, it was don't do that.
00:11:52
Speaker
And that drove me and and has propelled me to reach even greater heights and greater goals. And so I think that's a I think that's a very keen insight right there. and How have those three things in your life?
00:12:05
Speaker
Impacted you in the sense of how you're able to help others. with your own experience? Yeah, i think um I think one, as a child, I probably didn't have as much grace for other people's story or understanding and empathy. It was it was more so like I see the struggle of that and I don't want to to live that out for myself or put other people that I love through that.
00:12:31
Speaker
um And it that has evolved over time. you know I recognize that you know a a circumstance isn't just one person's doing. It isn't just one person's moral character or or any of that. like like life is Like you said earlier, life is hard.
00:12:47
Speaker
And so um I think through it, I've gained ah just a tremendous amount of understanding and grace. I've i accomplished all three of those goals. And I think for for someone you know in a different space with different circumstances, that those three goals may have not even registered on a on an achievement list because they would have been so, you know give it would have been a given.
00:13:13
Speaker
But for me, they were mag and were huge And so to do that, it it gave me the sense that I could accomplish anything. And so to accomplish those major goals for me at the time, then propelled me to accomplish even more major goals and set bigger goals for myself.
00:13:30
Speaker
And a big part of that was was reaching out and helping other people see the potential within them. And I think that's something that I do on a regular basis is, you know, when I'm meeting, whether it's a stranger or somebody I've known for years, so it's really highlighting the potential and the the greatness that lies within everyone.
00:13:50
Speaker
So, you know, thank you for that question. I'm curious with with what you, ah you know, you said everything is, you know, the things that you go through are preparing you for something else. Mm-hmm.
00:14:03
Speaker
Can you speak to some of the things that prepared you to be in the the world that you're in now as a rape crisis counselor? Because that's a that's a heavy role to carry.
00:14:16
Speaker
Well, congratulations, number one. And what you've accomplished in your
Journey into Advocacy and Counseling
00:14:21
Speaker
life. It's amazing.
00:14:23
Speaker
incredible and you had these goals and you did it you chose it you I know you work for it I know you struggle without even knowing you and that's a testament to you and a testament of what's possible really especially for our youth so that's it's just so important for kids that don't believe that you know they don't believe that within themselves there's so many kids that can't even fathom right that they could have this in their life so you know kudos to you and and keep keep sharing those messages and and it resonates you don't even know you With with but Ray Christ Counseling, with this interview, with the way we talk, we don't we often don't know the impact of our words in both good and bad ways and positive and negative ways of how damaging we can really be.
00:15:05
Speaker
What has prepared me, again, a lifelong of experiences with people. ah Ultimately, God's called me to this work. So God has given me something and asked me to do something.
00:15:16
Speaker
And some of the things, like just being open and listening to people, And hearing their stories and their pain that has, and it still prepares me for this work. I don't have all the answers. I don't have um everything, you know?
00:15:33
Speaker
So I'm constantly still being prepared in many ways. And, but it's made me, Being with people and and having people open up. Now, I don't go to people. I don't ask them. I'm not like, hey, tell me your deepest and darkest secrets.
00:15:46
Speaker
like That's not how like life is. So randomly, this can happen to me anywhere when you least expect it, and someone will just disclose to me. So that has prepared me. It's made me more patient.
00:16:01
Speaker
It's made me more compassionate. It's made me more empathetic. It's made me a better human being. It's made me a better man. It's made me, um it as painful and has and as heavy it as as it is, it's been more beneficial, more influential in my life. So with all the pain, there's been so much good that's come out of it.
00:16:23
Speaker
So I'm not sure if that's fully answered your question, but like I said, with all these experiences, working in the business world, working in the school system, working with survivors and victims in their deepest and darkest pain, all of that has prepared me to hopefully be a better presence and a calming presence and a safer presence for people who need it.
00:16:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And yeah can can you I think there's so much humility in what you just described of of knowing that you don't know all the answers. But there's this there's this energy exchange where people will disclose things to you.
00:16:59
Speaker
And I think that that's that's recognizing people recognizing the the safety that you you are for them. And whether they know you deeply or not, like yeah there's a way that people carry themselves that make you feel like I can trust this person with what I'm about to say.
00:17:17
Speaker
And I think that is like you said, you were called to this, like to have that demeanor is is huge. And so um you've been you've been heavily involved in activism and advocacy work.
00:17:29
Speaker
What drew you to to that from from let's start with the criminal justice standpoint. What drew you to criminal justice work to begin with? again, one of your goals is prison. I, I work with middle school kids and and I asked them like, what do you want to learn about like in life? Like what, what are you interested in learning about? And sometimes they say prison and crime and I'm like, well, let's, let's discuss it.
00:17:52
Speaker
Let's, let's, let's do research. Let's talk about what do you want to learn about? And so I went to school for criminal justice and, ah I was taking a class called Women in Crime, and it was about women in the prison system, which is something i don't know if we often think about.
00:18:09
Speaker
And, ah you know, the majority of women are incarcerated for drugs. The the vast majority of women have been sexually abused. I mean, the the The connection of trauma and prison is cute.
00:18:25
Speaker
It's just connected. so And coupled with addiction. And specifically with women, again, even sexual abuse. Same with men, but I would argue more so with women. but um So taking a class on that, talking about women, female gang members.
00:18:40
Speaker
So just learning about female gang members. And there was a part of the class that dealt with rape. So we were reading a book and it was just hitting me. Like I was just getting like angry. It was just, it was just hitting me in a different way. And um there were women that came from a crisis center to our class.
00:18:57
Speaker
And I knew I had to go to that class. So I went and they came and and these women were like angels to me. They were like, they were so gentle, but they were so strong. i was just in awe that these women did this like full time. And I've never heard of this in my life.
00:19:11
Speaker
And they showed us a reenactment of a perpetrator. So they, that, reenactment, like my rage, like my rage scared me. Like I had this deep rage and I had this deep disgust where I thought I was going to just throw up in my chair.
00:19:26
Speaker
I did. Like, I just thought, I was going to lose it. And God was speaking to me and and God asked me, will you help? And there were opportunities to volunteer. And I was so nervous, so scared. It's like every negative thing came at me. It's like I got flooded with nothing but negativity and weight.
00:19:44
Speaker
um But I ultimately did it. I went up to the women after the after their presentation and I asked like, oh, can I volunteer? And they're like, yeah, let me take down your information. And ultimately they chose me over other people and I became an intern and my life's never been the same since I've been doing this work ever since that moment.
00:20:02
Speaker
So justice studies, learning about the prison system, learning about ah juveniles and learning about trauma, sexual abuse, physical abuse, the horrors that people really go through and what ultimately leads some people, what leads people to prison in general is is fascinating to me.
00:20:19
Speaker
And the choice we make addiction, all these things, we could have a long discussion about incarceration. Yeah, played a vital role in my life. Wow. I think a lot of times in in the work of advocacy and and activism, you see someone who has had their own personal experience with what it is that they're advocating for.
00:20:42
Speaker
ah Do you care to disclose whether or not that was what drove that rage when you heard about these the perpetrators or or saw that reenactment? or Or was it just a deep human connection and experience seeing people going through so much suffering?
00:20:58
Speaker
No, you can ask me anything you want. I would deeply, i would, I can only describe it as God talking to me. There was something deeper and something different. There was no, I have no, I have not been sexually abused of anything I'm aware of.
00:21:12
Speaker
Part of the things I've learned and written about is how the brain really does repress memories. How people, I know a man who didn't know he sexually abused when he was four, a little four-year-old boy who sexually abused.
00:21:24
Speaker
until he was well later in life. So that is real for people. i I can't say that. So it wasn't, it had nothing to do with me. It had something, it was a calling to something.
00:21:37
Speaker
And I didn't know what that would be. And arguably, that's what faith is. you you you You
Challenges of Victim-Blaming and Societal Attitudes
00:21:43
Speaker
dive into something. You don't know what it's going to look like, what your role is going to be, how hard it's going to be, how easy it could be, all the impacts you might have or not have.
00:21:52
Speaker
All I knew was I wanted to be a part of it. All I knew is I had to be a part of it. All I knew is I would do anything they asked, like even clean the toilets. I didn't care. Like, as long as if they accepted me, if this is something that they're accepting me into, I would do my best in my own weakness to simply just help. Like, part of it was learning that, like, women being blamed for being raped.
00:22:14
Speaker
Why? like What is wrong with you why would you? Why would you ever blame a woman for being raped? There's not one actual reason to do that. So it drove me crazy. And so and I knew, I would never do that.
00:22:27
Speaker
So if that is helpful to a human being, I have a responsibility to do something. Because I just simply knew on a foundational level, we can't do that.
00:22:38
Speaker
We can't do that. and so what do you What do you think it is about our culture, society that allows for that to happen? for For women, for for victims, for survivors to be blamed for what they've endured?
00:22:55
Speaker
I think it's a combination of things. I think there are people who are, there's too many human beings that are just simply unkind. We're unkind. There's so many of us that we don't listen to each other.
00:23:08
Speaker
We don't see each other. Some of us take pleasure in the pain of others. Some of us might feel safer If because so, some people, they might say, well well, what were you wearing? So if you, if I don't wear a dress, that won't happen to me. If I don't wear a bathing suit that will hire me, why were you drinking? How much do you drink? If I don't drink, that won't happen me How could you hang out with this person? If I don't hang out with this person, what happened me?
00:23:30
Speaker
And I can understand that to a point, but that's not the reality. It's not the reality. has absolutely nothing to do with clothes, with drinking, with anything. with people most often it's someone most often people are abused by someone they know.
00:23:45
Speaker
And in my experience, very little alcohol has anything to do with it. You're talking about sober people who are sexually abusing sober people. So, uh, it's just, so I think there's a combination of reasons as to why people do it, but regardless of the reasons it's causing deep pain, you take a person who's traumatized and has been Raped, assaulted, attempted rape, just molested.
00:24:13
Speaker
um Any form, any word you want to use in any form of trauma that causes that immense fear and pain into a person. And then you don't believe them or you blame them for it. It's making them worse. It's causing them.
00:24:26
Speaker
They're already taking a deep. ah You're already taking a hurt person and making them go even lower. even lower but if you don't do that if you listen to them and support them you can actually bring them down a path of healing it's the power of our responses yes has huge weight in in the recovery of people does that make sense yeah absolutely it makes sense and this is something that is a is a very um What you just described hits home for me.
00:24:57
Speaker
i was, um my listeners and and people who follow me know that I disclosed, I realized that I had trauma of sexual abuse um from my my childhood, that didn't i didn't And categorize this trauma until adulthood, and really understanding trauma and how it affects the brain and, and how it affects us and that shame that you talk about, like I carried that in a way that I didn't know i was carrying it.
00:25:30
Speaker
And, and for me, I think my, my, I had recollect recollection of this is wasn't repressed. ah Well, some may still be repressed. I don't know, but I remember three, maybe four years old.
00:25:43
Speaker
It was a girl though. And so for ah in, in this society, a boy um and a girl having, having been in any kind of sexual encounter with a girl was something that I was supposed to carry like a badge of honor and beat my chest and and be proud of.
00:26:00
Speaker
And that was a form of invalidating my experience as a three, four year old who didn't know what the hell was going on. And i I, I didn't tell, I couldn't tell anybody until many years later and talking about, you know, with, with,
00:26:15
Speaker
young boys and friends who were teenagers have like been there, done that type of thing. But like, how, where, what? And, and just the confusion of all of that and, and knowing how that programmed my mind from that point on, uh, there was a lot of shame. And I, and I, I've had conversations with people who have similar traumas, um, and, and their, their experiences were invalidated. Their, their,
00:26:45
Speaker
they they carried even deeper shame and it wasn't that pride that that I was taught to have around my situation. And so so, yeah, I think absolutely like the response to someone, if they're able to disclose is huge.
00:27:02
Speaker
um But can you speak to why a survivor may not be able to disclose what they've experienced? Well, thank you for sharing what you just shared.
00:27:15
Speaker
you know, let me know, obviously, if you need anything at any time, uh, you get my information. And, and I think it's just huge that you feel comfortable enough to share that and that you trust enough and that you're strong enough. And it's awful that that happened to you.
00:27:27
Speaker
It's awful that people respond that way, that no kid, no child, no person should be abused. And kids are just, it's different with kids. It's there's the, so, um,
00:27:40
Speaker
Why is it so hard? yes For kids, you're a kid, you're a child. You don't even the language. to actually articulate what happened. I work with kids. So I see kids want to play, they want to play tag, they get so so much joy over hitting a ball.
00:27:56
Speaker
And then you take that same kid, that same age, and they experience a true, trauma I mean, a horrific trauma that they don't know how to articulate it, they don't know how to feel.
00:28:09
Speaker
ah Similar with adults. So part of the reason people don't talk is they don't know how to even get it out. They don't even know what to say, what to do. Some of it is also just fear. They don't know what will happen, especially if it's someone, you know, maybe it's someone they love, like a family member. So how, what if they tell someone and now, what does that mean? Is someone going to be arrested? Is someone going to be taken away?
00:28:33
Speaker
There's all these questions a kid might be going through. They might not know how to talk about against a family member. There's a lot of fear. The shame is the killer. you know shame is the killer i mean this is leading people to suicide so this is leading to people ah to depression addiction suicide so shame alone is preventing people from talking and open up and also what you've already shared that people that there are many men boys that act like it's a badge of honor there are people that think it's this great thing that that happened to you other people that wouldn't even believe you all these awful responses
00:29:11
Speaker
to an incident of childhood trauma is very sad. This is what I attempt to to do. This is what I attempt to tell people.
Power of Storytelling and Ethical Sharing
00:29:20
Speaker
um So really all those reasons and and probably more are reasons why people don't talk about it.
00:29:27
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. um you've You've had the opportunity to work with so many different survivors and ah you even wrote a book to the survivors.
00:29:39
Speaker
What motivated you to to compile those those that those testimonies, those poems into into your book? Again, for me, i had I had a dream. I woke up from a dream and I said, I have to write a book.
00:29:53
Speaker
And I knew that survivor stories would be in it. It there are there's there's written stories as poetry and there's interviews with women, men and one transgender man.
00:30:05
Speaker
And that's just all raw and honest. I mean, there's, there's profanity, controversial things, whatever people take with it, what they want and what they need. But ultimately, it's true. It's all real.
00:30:17
Speaker
And the only way To me, the only way you can really make an impact on these deep issues that and impact countless people. There's way too many human beings who are sexually abused in this world is to be honest, is to be vulnerable. You asked earlier about vulnerability. These people were so vulnerable and trusting to me. I'll always be thankful to them.
00:30:40
Speaker
And their words, your words, what you're sharing today, it resonates. it It connects. It helps other people understand. feel less alone. It actually helps other people open up.
00:30:52
Speaker
It helps other people seek out what they need and people need different things at different times. So just the power of your words alone can change your life, can save a life.
00:31:06
Speaker
And it's, it's, it's important for people if they, if they choose to read it, if they choose to look into this topic, if they choose to listen to this interview, how people can be impacted of every background.
00:31:19
Speaker
of any background and of at at at any age. and And the impacts, then there's differences amongst people, but there's also similarities too. Yeah, I think that was one of the reasons I started the podcast was was recognizing when I shared my story, when I was vulnerable, when I flexed my vulnerability muscle, it helped me to connect with people on a deeper level. It helped me heal and in in ultimately grow.
00:31:46
Speaker
And I think as we tell more stories, as we share more stories, that's what that's what we get. We get to see humanity in other people. We get to see that mirror and reflection of ourselves in other people.
00:31:57
Speaker
I'm curious how you how you ah went about navigating the the ethical responsibility of sharing these deep personal stories. Because and i have people reach out and ask about my story. Or ah was recently interviewed for a book.
00:32:13
Speaker
And I'm reading a contract that was... that the it was triggering in just the language. It wasn't trauma-informed language. um The interviewer, it just, it felt off and it felt like the the ethical and emotional responsibility wasn't taken with great care.
00:32:33
Speaker
How did you navigate that? Or how do you navigate that? That's a good, I don't think anyone's ever asked me that. do What was, if I may ask you before I answer, what was um challenging in the legal contract for you? yeah how Like what was written about it that made you feel a certain way?
00:32:49
Speaker
So one, I think I have a greater understanding of just legal contracts because of the the finance work and stuff that I've done in my in my my profession. but But to see, um you know, we own the rights to this throughout the universe in perpetuity, like those that type of language, which I steer clients away from athletes and things when they're signing deals with different people their...
00:33:14
Speaker
that keep there their their words and their, you know, whatever they've shared with in in somebody else's control forever throughout everywhere um felt felt off to me.
00:33:27
Speaker
um But then also there was language around not being able to review and approve what was ultimately said, that that the editing and all of that could be in somebody else's hands.
00:33:37
Speaker
And to know that, you know, trauma, ah a hallmark of trauma is is not having a choice. We don't choose to be abused. We don't choose to be neglected. we don't choose that.
00:33:49
Speaker
And then to have that reinforced through a contract is is very harsh. And so I ultimately, at this point in life, I'm able to advocate for myself. So I responded with redlined and it had a lot of lot of trauma-informed language in it once it was finally signed.
00:34:05
Speaker
But I know that there were other survivors who didn't and and they signed that contract. And it's hard to just to know that. And so it's all i i think about storytelling a lot. And even in these conversations, you know, I don't want to share anything that no one is comfortable yeah if they're not comfortable sharing it. So we could have the best conversation if you say don't air it. I won't air it.
00:34:27
Speaker
But, yeah, I'm curious how you how you navigate that. I hope I did it ethically and morally. What I did was I asked people, I was just honest and I just said, here's what I'm doing. Do you want to be a part of it?
00:34:40
Speaker
And if you do, you have the final say, like it's your words. Like you absolutely have the final say, this isn't about me. It's never been about me and it will never be about me. So It's up to you. And some people started the process and stopped.
00:34:55
Speaker
Some people said no. So that's fine. Other people started the process and stopped. Other people, we weren't aligning. Like, it like, um like, if, if, if you're not in this, like full, your whole being, then you don't have like, no one has to be a part of this. do you know what i mean? Like, it's completely their choice.
00:35:14
Speaker
Ultimately, the people who made it into the book, wanted to be there. They chose to, one guy originally, I also said, let's change your name. And they, uh, said yes. And one guy changed his name and then he ultimately wanted to reveal his, his real name.
00:35:29
Speaker
And so I did. And before I, I don't like discussing, I mean, I, I discuss money and finance, but I don't like love it. It's not, I don't like bringing money into like this,
00:35:41
Speaker
work right But I also understand it's a reality of life and and contracts are real in life. So before I published their names, I had them sign a very simple, basic, like disclosure form, something very simple, but it's not like I own the rights to you or, you know, they, and they ultimately signed It's still ultimately their choice.
00:36:03
Speaker
But I felt like it was important to have something of contract before you publish something in the world. Cause I, I don't know if one person's even going to read it. I don't know if, 10 people are going to read. i don't know I don't know 200,000 people are going to read. I have no clue what's going to happen in this world.
00:36:18
Speaker
But ultimately they approved their own words and they had, we had plenty of time to say, okay, this is what we're really
Navigating Narrative Control and Survivor Stories
00:36:28
Speaker
doing. will we really good? to we really good? And so,
00:36:30
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's good. That's good. while you were While you were talking, I thought about another part to it that I thought was a little bit harsh. ah It, you know, to be reproduced in other formats.
00:36:43
Speaker
And so if you take, you know, the story that I tell you, and then you depict that in a movie, or you make a short film or whatever, and without consulting, without coming back, without checking, like all of those things were good to go on the original contract. And it just,
00:37:00
Speaker
It just didn't, I don't know. It just doesn't feel right. And so I'm glad to know. I can hear just, I mean, you, you've asked me questions. You've been curious, you've been compassionate. And so i can, I can tell that you're, you take that responsibility seriously. So, um, yeah, thank you for that.
00:37:18
Speaker
people shouldn't profit off your story. So if there's a profit, there should be a conversation and, and if it should be some, you know, like I, if, if I believe 60% of my own books in the words of other people, I don't sit here and I i don't try to, I i give, uh, many free copies away.
00:37:39
Speaker
Anyone who's interested, if they want it, it's out there in the world. And, uh, when I try to talk about it, when I try to if, if people are interested, I'm not like, Oh, please come read my, my writing. I think my writing sucks. It's more like but I want, I want people to connect. I want people to stay alive.
00:37:59
Speaker
You know, I want people to heal through the horrors of sexual abuse. And this is my attempt to do that. And the most, some of the most powerful ways I know the most effective ways are by the words of other people.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Can you, is there a story that sticks out in your mind of of that healing and hope and transformation in a person's life that, that, that, that really sticks out and stands out? can you speak to that?
00:38:28
Speaker
Well, you said earlier, it's interesting. It's important for two men to talk. I mean, in in the book, there are three stories of men. One was abused by a priest. And he, at the time he was in a male group and he asked, he came into my home, he interviewed with me and he asked if he could, he asked the group if they were interested in contributing. And two men that I've never met before came into my home and interviewed.
00:38:52
Speaker
So one guy, Don, this was his first time he ever opened up in such great length. And so if I didn't respond adequately or well, he would have just told me to screw off and he would have left, you know, left in his interview, never would have made it into this book.
00:39:10
Speaker
And so there's healing it in that alone that he could talk for that long in the way, in the way the conversation flows, just like this conversation now. And then there's another guy, Chris, that in the writing, you can actually, I believe you can see and almost feel his hesitation, his breakdowns, his healing in the process for him i don't mean to speak for him but that's how i take his words when i read it so in the book those are some ways but in in just life in general just seeing people being able to be married people people being able to have our relationships uh have children uh people that don't end up in prison as you say people that don't
00:39:54
Speaker
And um I mean, my God, I know there's a woman I know who she tough, tough upbringing, tough childhood. And I always saw her bright smile, but it never came
Encouragement and Advice for Survivors
00:40:04
Speaker
out often. And people don't know her real story.
00:40:06
Speaker
And you see the real story and you go this makes a lot of sense why she looks angry. because she has all justified reasons to be angry but I see her bright light in her and knowing that she's again like not in prison and doing well successfully and in business I'm happy for her you know so there's all there's so many different ways we can define success and ways we can show success but seeing people if if it's possible that having people have this not cripple them and have it not control them means the world yeah to me
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah. You brought up an interesting point when when talking about, i believe it was Chris, of seeing the hesitation as he was coming out and telling that story. what What are your words to survivors or anyone who has experienced you know sexual abuse, sexual trauma in how they share their story, when it when it's okay to share their story, when it's not okay? like like What is your your advice to them ah when it when when that comes up?
00:41:07
Speaker
I listen to them. i don't I don't give them advice unless they ask for it. I listen to them and then depending on what comes out, then I i will respond. and I'm saying to to someone listening to this who who may have a therapist or counselor or someone in their life wanting them to open up, they've started, but now they want to retreat.
00:41:31
Speaker
What can you say to that person?
00:41:34
Speaker
It's tough. I can understand why they would want to retreat. you know I can't make them open up. I don't know if that's i don't actually believe that's my role too.
00:41:46
Speaker
i think I think it's important for them to, it's it's great they're in a third they're seeing a therapist, so and if they have someone they can trust, I think they need to go at it in their own way, in their own time, at their own pace.
00:42:02
Speaker
And I think that looks differently for different people. But having them know that there's options out there. Sometimes that could be in a therapy session. That could be just someone listening to this podcast from front to back alone is immense growth for a human being.
00:42:17
Speaker
That could be reading a book at 2 a.m. That could be just going to hit a heavy bag in boxing. And, you know, you love football, right? So like that could just be getting out on the field and, and, and playing football that they feel that could be healthy and releasing for them.
00:42:34
Speaker
in that sense. um But I would also say that as scary as it is that you will get, you'll get through it. That it's, it's ultimately, it's going to do more damage keeping it in than getting it out.
00:42:49
Speaker
If you get out to the right people, because it's terrifying. I've said this earlier with vulnerability, it's terrifying. And it is, but ultimately in the, in the grand scheme of life it will It will be worth it and you you can get through it and I believe you will get through it.
00:43:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think I think it's so crucial, the right people, because if if there is a reason why you decided but ah where your body and you just retreated from that conversation with someone, maybe it was off their response. Maybe it was off the energy you felt. Maybe it was something about that person.
00:43:25
Speaker
i would say listen to that. I would say listen to that. um But but to Robert's point, once you. are able to get that out, it's liberating. It's so liberating to to be freed from the ah shackles in your mind and the the pain that that carries.
00:43:43
Speaker
ah there's still There's still pain. There's pain and healing, but it is a liberating feeling to get those things off of your chest.
Balancing Self-Care and Advocacy
00:43:51
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Robert, how do you balance your own well-being with such high-impact work?
00:44:01
Speaker
How do you take care of yourself? mean, sometimes I don't. But sometimes when I do, it's similar to what I said earlier. For me, it's prayer. it's It's meditation. It's being with my wife, being with stepdaughter, laughing. It's music.
00:44:17
Speaker
Being with kids, man, kids, I have more laughter working with my, like I have more joy joy working with kids than any other job I've ever done that I can just play games with them and, and, and have fun with them.
00:44:29
Speaker
So that's all really helpful for me and knowing, but for me, it is something deeper. And for me, this is, this is a lifelong calling that if I'm effective in it, I have responsibility to do it.
00:44:44
Speaker
So I don't,
00:44:47
Speaker
Balance is important. Balance, I would tell anyone, is necessary. And I need it for myself as well. And when I have it, I think I continue to grow and get stronger to do it. So it makes me more effective to do it, ah to continue doing this. it's more strengthening myself will only be Strengthening myself will only allow me to be able to strengthen other people as well. So in certain moments, I don't do it. But when I do, it is it's it's very beneficial. And I keep going. We keep going. Life is messy.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yeah. Life is messy and and nothing, none of this is guaranteed. um None of it, none of this is guaranteed. So with whatever time I have left, I try to live out my calling as best as I can.
00:45:30
Speaker
Man, you're right. Nothing, nothing is guaranteed. I just, I'm reminded of that. You know, it's been, ah just this morning, i found out that two very relatively young people that I know, um passed away recently and two separate occasions. And it's like, you know, one in their twenties, one in their late thirties.
00:45:55
Speaker
It's just like, you never know. You never know. And life is even a full life is too short to, not live out your purpose, to not live a life that you are happy with and and to go and pursue those things. And so I'm glad to know that you are doing that you're walking in your purpose and you're helping people along that way.
00:46:19
Speaker
i could i have to say, one wait one of the saddest things in this world to me is that abuse and trauma and sexual abuse is preventing countless people from doing what you're saying.
00:46:36
Speaker
We are not we were not born to just live in misery and depression. And as you use the word shackles earlier, you're right. People are shackled, man. People are imprisoned and not in a physical prison.
00:46:49
Speaker
Yes. That you talk about. You're absolutely right. And so it is abuse and they teach lies. They teach lies about ourselves. They teach lies and shame and all these negative things, all these forces that come at people. And it's preventing people from what you're doing from what you're saying they should they can accomplish. So having this conversation and continuing in this work, little by little, one by one, if possible, even if one person's impacted, it's all worth it.
00:47:17
Speaker
Just one person's impact is worth it. Debunk some of the lies that you that you hear on a regular basis that people have been fed or that the the stories that they may be telling themselves based off of what they've been told.
00:47:33
Speaker
People from all ages, including children. believe they are ugly. They believe they are worthless. They believe they are meaningless. They believe they have no purpose. They believe they have no talents.
00:47:46
Speaker
They believe they can't ah get a girl or or have a girlfriend. They believe that things are just meaningless, but that they're, they believe they're awful. They believe they're not worthy. They're worthless. And I said, they, they, so many people don't believe they can accomplish some of the success you talked about earlier.
00:48:09
Speaker
And none of these are true. It's true that they believe it. It's true that they feel it. And it's true that they think it that's true. But ultimately, ultimately it's a lie.
00:48:21
Speaker
But it's a powerful lie. I work in a field of truth and lies. What I do, I try my best to to combat the lies with truth for people. And sometimes that can take years.
00:48:33
Speaker
Sometimes that's really agonizing. But eventually, once the truth comes out, it's like all this stuff goes away in their lives. It doesn't mean they're perfect. doesn't mean they don't have pain. It doesn't mean they don't have memories and setbacks.
00:48:45
Speaker
wouldn't say that. But the idea that they are worthless, meaningless, have no purpose is simply not true. And that, again, leads people into depression, anxiety, horrible relationships, serious addiction, and death.
00:49:00
Speaker
yeah People are killing what is what is What is the truth in in a in an ah affirmative way? The truth is that you are not blamed for being sexually abused.
00:49:12
Speaker
The truth is that there's nothing you did that made someone hurt you. That is solely the responsibility of someone who chooses to hurt another. That's the truth. The truth is that you are then suffering for years.
00:49:29
Speaker
Mostly a lifetime. That's one thing that's different. One of the things about this crime, it not only impacts people so deeply, it and not only impacts people in so many different ways. It does it for so long. The time.
00:49:41
Speaker
That it's affecting their mind, their self-esteem, again, their actions, their schooling, their relationships. It's so much damage on one act from a human being that chose to do it.
00:49:55
Speaker
That's the truth. But also the truth is that there is hope and that you can heal. That this does not have to control you. This does not have to cripple you. And that as awful as it is, you are not what the abuse tells you you are.
Insights on Healing and Supportive Responses
00:50:07
Speaker
That's the truth.
00:50:10
Speaker
Thank you for those words. Thank you. Thank you. i could I could talk to you for for hours. But before we close out, I want to want to do another segment. It's just a fill in the blank.
00:50:22
Speaker
And similar to beginning, is it could be short, it could be long, it could be a story. But I'm curious what your what you're responses will be. Vulnerability makes me feel blank.
00:50:39
Speaker
care
00:50:42
Speaker
Vulnerability makes me feel scared, nervous,
00:50:48
Speaker
terrified, but it's ultimately important and necessary to go through.
00:50:57
Speaker
Healing begins when windb blank.
00:51:03
Speaker
Healing begins when
00:51:09
Speaker
you seek, when you make a step, when you express something, when you scream, when you cry, when you go for a walk, when you admit you have no clue what's happening, you don't know what to do, when you open up.
00:51:34
Speaker
Hope looks like blank.
00:51:39
Speaker
heaven, light, peace, strength, inspiration, art, music, dance, children, joy.
00:51:54
Speaker
Yes. If I could tell survivors of sexual crimes, of sexual violence, one thing, it would be this.
00:52:05
Speaker
You are not to blame. You are loved. Nothing you did caused anything that happened to you. You are strong. You have a purpose. You are meaningful.
00:52:18
Speaker
You are never alone.
00:52:22
Speaker
And lastly, when I need inspiration, I turn to blank.
00:52:30
Speaker
I turn to Jesus Christ. I turn to God. I turn to music. I turn to art. I turn to other people. And I even turn to the pains of the world.
00:52:43
Speaker
I turn to angry and depressing music and art. And
00:52:53
Speaker
I see what they're going through and listen to them. And that that moves me.
00:53:05
Speaker
I love how thoughtful you are with your responses. I love, I've loved this conversation. even just in the beginning, um, asking me questions about my own experiences, I can tell that the work that you're doing, like you're in the work that you do and you mean it.
00:53:22
Speaker
It's not, it's not for show. Um, and you have a deep passion for it. And I, and I'm thankful for you. i'm thankful for, folks like you who show up for others um because you don't have to and you do anyway and I think that is truly the work that that we as humans um godly humans we do that work and so thank you thank you so much Are there any final thoughts, final words, things that you want to get off your chest to share with the audience, to someone out there who needs to hear something?
00:54:02
Speaker
I thank you for this. I thank you for this conversation. i thank you for, you know, giving the time and the opportunity. And I thank you for your vulnerability to open up to people out there. There's people out there.
00:54:17
Speaker
Mm-hmm. There are, there's nothing nothing that you've experienced is unspeakable. Yeah. And that's another lie that this stuff teaches people that they can't talk about it, but they can, you can.
00:54:28
Speaker
There's people out there that will listen to you. There's people out there will believe you. And if you do not get treated the way you should be treated with love, compassion, respect seek someone else.
Resources and Closing Remarks
00:54:40
Speaker
Don't have it shut you down for another 10 years, 20 years, 40 years. Find someone else because someone else will. You are deeply loved. You have a purpose. And again, nothing you did caused this. You're not to blame.
00:54:55
Speaker
And you don't have to do this alone. You don't. Yes. can you Can you speak to some resources that people can tap into? um Maybe national resources, local resources that they can reach out to?
00:55:08
Speaker
Yeah, you're in Tennessee. So RAINN is a great organization, R-A-I-N-N, Rape, Abuse, and inset and Incest National Network. You go on their website and their state ah websites for the U.S. So you can easily find things. There are...
00:55:24
Speaker
Again, there are crisis centers. There are 24-hour centers. There are books. There are podcasts. There's music. There's literature. there's There's resources out there.
00:55:35
Speaker
There's things in this world that you can use for yourself, for your life, for your own growth and healing. And it's not for me to say what what's best for you. That's not even close to my point.
00:55:47
Speaker
But they exist. And go seek them. Embrace them. Use them. They're there for you. They're there for you and you'll see what you'll do for yourself and you'll see what you do for others.
00:55:59
Speaker
Yeah. And how can people reach you, Robert, if they wanted to connect to, to work with you, to learn more? You can check out my website, RobertUtara.com. You can email me at info at RobertUtara.com.
00:56:12
Speaker
You can check out the book To the Survivors at Amazon if you're interested. And and if money's an issue, the book is free on my website. So anyone can can seek it if they want. And if they if it's too much for them, please don't.
00:56:25
Speaker
ah Seek it. don't Don't open it if it's too hard for you. You go at your own pace. You go at your own time. um But know that you'll get through it. You will. And Reggie, you're a testament to that. that's It's obvious. You're a testament to that. You're a testament to men that...
00:56:43
Speaker
Men can be sexually abused as boys and live incredibly healthy, successful lives. You're such a peaceful guy and a strong guy. And men need to hear that.
00:56:54
Speaker
Men need to hear that. and and And there are women that that commit acts of sexual abuse. it's It's absurd to think that doesn't happen. Our little boys are being impacted. And what are we doing for them? So you're a testament, my friend. You keep it up.
00:57:07
Speaker
Thank you, Robert. I appreciate that. And thank you for for your time today. been a heavy conversation, but a very fruitful one that I think many people and especially many survivors will gain and benefit from.
00:57:21
Speaker
Robert, with all the things that you could be doing and all the places you could be, I appreciate you being here with me embracing vulnerability. Thank you. Thank you for joining us in another episode of Vulnerability Muscle.
00:57:32
Speaker
If you've enjoyed these conversations around vulnerability, please consider leaving a review. Your feedback not only motivates us to continue to do the work that we do, but it allows other people to witness the power of vulnerability.
00:57:45
Speaker
Share your thoughts. on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcasts, or wherever you're listening from. And don't forget to spread the word. You can follow us at Vulnerability Muscle on Instagram and me personally at Reggie D. Ford across all platforms.
00:58:01
Speaker
Visit vulnerabilitymuscle.com for additional resources and support. And remember, embracing vulnerability is not a sign of weakness. It is the source of your greatest strength.
00:58:13
Speaker
Sometimes it's uncomfortable, but most workouts are. So keep flexing that vulnerability muscle.