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074: You’re Not Your Thoughts… So Who’s Driving Your Life?
17 Plays11 days ago
“Life is too short to be miserable.”
In this powerful and deeply human conversation, Reggie sits down with nurse coach and wellness leader Joni O’Neill to unpack what actually creates change, not just in theory, but in real life.
Drawing from 25+ years in healthcare and her work in coaching, Joni breaks down why most people struggle to feel better, even when they “know what to do.” The missing piece? Understanding the relationship between your body, your thoughts, and your emotional patterns.
Through stories of motherhood, grief, generational healing, and a career rooted in service, this episode explores how vulnerability shows up for those who are used to being the strong ones, and what it takes to finally turn that care inward.
You’ll also hear:
- Why calming your body is the gateway to changing your mind
- The hidden cost of always being “the helper”
- How childhood moments shape our emotional blueprint
- A simple but powerful “car, driver, and map” framework to understand your inner world
- What it really feels like to flourish
This is not surface-level self-help. This is the kind of conversation that helps you understand yourself differently.
If you’ve ever felt stuck in your own mind, overwhelmed by life, or unsure how to actually create change, this episode will meet you right where you are.
Listen now and start learning how to work with your mind and body instead of against them.
Key Quotes & Takeaways
- “Your thoughts are not you… and realizing that changes everything.”
- “When your body is in survival mode, growth work becomes impossible.”
- “Life is too short to be miserable, and we don’t have to wait until it breaks us to change.”
Contact Info
Guest: Joni O’Neill
Website: https://coachjonio.com (Free consultation available)
Host: Reggie D. Ford
Website: https://reggiedford.com
Socials: @reggiedford (Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube)
Recommended
Transcript
Reconnecting with Pre-Maternal Selves
00:00:00
Speaker
my love and passion of bringing people together. And so they were mostly my age at that time, you know, a little younger, a little older, but moms. um And what we found is for one hour a day, we got to come together and be the girl we were before we became the wife, the mom, the responsible one.
00:00:19
Speaker
So it was like we were in the club, but it was 10 o'clock in the morning on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And we just got to be our young, free selves.
Introduction to 'Vulnerability Muscle' Podcast
00:00:27
Speaker
Welcome to Vulnerability Muscle, the inspiring podcast challenging norms and helping you redefine vulnerability as a strength. I'm your host, Reggie D. Ford.
00:00:37
Speaker
Each episode of Vulnerability Muscle dives into a variety of topics such as mental health, social issues, and mindset shifts. We explore the power of vulnerability in fostering meaningful connections, healing, building resilience, and promoting personal growth.
00:00:54
Speaker
Sometimes these conversations are uncomfortable, but good workouts often are. So join us and flex that vulnerability muscle. Welcome to Vulnerability Muscle. I'm your host, Reggie D.
Meet Joni O'Neill: Nurse Coach & Self-Coaching Circle Creator
00:01:08
Speaker
Ford. And today with me, I have a special guest, one of my classmates and new friends from the University of Pennsylvania. This is Joni O'Neill. Joni, welcome to the show.
00:01:21
Speaker
Thank you. I'm so excited and honored to be here with you, beside you, and experiencing a little bit of your world. I appreciate that. And I'm honored to be here with you as well. I'm going to give you a little bit of background on Joni. Joni is a she brings a unique blend of clinical experience and human centered work with over 25 years of experience in health care as a cardiovascular nurse. And now as a board certified nurse coach, she's helping people not just manage, but thrive in the work that they do.
Vulnerability & Self-Care Practices for Caretakers
00:01:55
Speaker
Joni is create the creator of the self-coaching circle, a powerful framework that helps people regulate emotions, shift their thinking, and create real change.
00:02:05
Speaker
And what I appreciate most is... your strength of gratitude, zest, hope, spirituality, um and and that's how you show up. And I think I'll add another one to that just from knowing you is your level of honesty and how you bring that to every conversation, every discussion that we have. You you exude that, and I really appreciate that about you, and I hope that it comes through to the listeners through this conversation.
00:02:35
Speaker
So with that, I have one opening segment that I like to do with folks, and it's just three relatively simple questions. I don't know how simple they'll be for you, but they are this.
00:02:48
Speaker
What comes to mind when you hear the word vulnerability?
Childhood Memories & Parenting with Warmth
00:02:56
Speaker
I think openness is And it's almost a visual that comes to mind, which is something just really soft and fragile.
00:03:10
Speaker
you know um
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's a that's a tough one. you know Especially for people who are the helpers. you know We're the ones who are always the listeners. the ones who offer, it's very difficult to turn that around. I mean, it's it's very simple for me to be present and and all of the things honest with people who are vulnerable, but it's a lot harder to flip that around and be vulnerable. Yeah, it is. it is. It is. As as a character i mean career caretaker, you've been in that space for a long time. You're also a mother and you've been married for over 33 years, which like so many societal roles that tell you that you're a caretaker. But you also you've done that. You've signed up for that and you've worked in that. And so I can imagine that it is difficult to turn that around. So thank you for sharing that.
00:04:11
Speaker
With having said that, though, what is something that you do to take care of yourself, to center yourself, to ground yourself if you're feeling overwhelmed or stressed? Well, the first thing is Prayer, breath work, you know, taking a few slow, deep breaths and stepping into prayer and just remembering that this life is just a drop in the bucket.
Liberation from Temporal Attachments
00:04:37
Speaker
And that helps put everything in perspective when I feel overwhelmed. So it's it's the same that as I teach its body. You know, manage your body and then you go from there. And for me, it's inviting.
00:04:52
Speaker
you know, and ah and Jesus, i can say that here. Yeah, for sure. jesus in And just remembering that this this space is so short and so, um what's the word I'm looking for? Not unexpected, but unknown. We don't know true how long we have. We don't. And so when you shift into that, it it helps you let go of most of the things that just weigh you down.
00:05:19
Speaker
I love that. It's like losing the attachment to this body and this earth and this time because it's it's temporary.
00:05:30
Speaker
And when we take the pressure off ourselves, it's like, oh how freeing, how liberating that can be. i love that. you You talked about dropping into the body. And I want to get back into that later because I think that is a big key to a lot of the healing that I've done.
00:05:45
Speaker
um But I have one last question to open up is, What is one of your and you might have to dig into the vault for this one, but what is one of your favorite childhood memories?
00:05:59
Speaker
Hmm. OK, this is a weird one. um I don't ah like many like many adults. I don't have a lot of childhood memories. That's a whole different conversation.
00:06:10
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um But I do remember um laying laying on the twin bed with my mom and my brother. She was sitting up against the wall. My little brother, who is few years younger than me, we're very close. And my mother was singing to us.
00:06:24
Speaker
um And it that did not happen very often. you've I've shared a little of my story with you. um but I can remember that. And I just remember that feeling of peace and like safety in that moment.
00:06:39
Speaker
And it was not a big I mean, it was not a big thing. Like we didn't get something new. It wasn't a holiday. It was literally just
Generational Healing & Gratitude
00:06:47
Speaker
a moment that weirdly I can recall. And she was singing this song.
00:06:52
Speaker
I have to Google it. don't know what it It was called To Ralu Raleigh. So it's an old song. um And it was just a moment that that some for some reason i can recall.
00:07:05
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When you think about that moment, what sensations come to your body? oh calm and ease. And my mother, for all of all of the, don't want say faults, but all of the things that didn't go well, one thing she always instilled into me and I assume to my siblings is, you know, you can do or be anything you want in the world as long as you work hard and, you know, show up.
00:07:36
Speaker
And so like that sense, I mean, that was a later time when she would say that, or maybe it was, I don't really remember, but that kind of meshes together in my memory of, of her. And I choose to go there.
00:07:53
Speaker
um Cause she's gone, she's been gone for almost 20 years. um I choose to go there because it, it lets me see the best in her and the best moments in in my childhood, I think.
00:08:10
Speaker
Wow. That's powerful. like I mean, just thinking about the the calm and in being and such comfort in that time, hearing her voice and the piece of that, and then being able to remember and recall positive experiences, even though she's been gone for 20 years.
Reggie's Personal Reflections on Maternal Memories
00:08:30
Speaker
um I will. This is the vulnerability muscle. So that conversation that's for next for another time, that's the conversation for right now. And I want to be a little vulnerable right now. This is my first recording in a minute um after some big news in my life.
00:08:47
Speaker
I'm not ready to share that news. um I will keep that news to myself for right now, but I will share the feelings that have come up around that news. um i have, um, I've been triggered.
00:09:02
Speaker
Like I was talking about this, this, um, we call it DL periods for school, um, distance learning periods. This distance learning period, um, has been hard because I got some news and it shook my system.
00:09:16
Speaker
It was related to my mother. Um, and I got to thinking, I have very few positive memories with my mom. And it's so hard to even like, like I sit there, i'm in therapy, and I'm trying to think about them.
00:09:29
Speaker
And I'm like, even like if there is a glimmer, I try to cling to these, but there's like a glimmer of positivity. And then it just like is overshadowed by something that happened a second before or after.
00:09:41
Speaker
And um but one of the things that I was able to pull was i used to have long hair and she used to braid my hair and like the process of braiding my hair, like washing it and, you know, putting oil in it and parting it and combing it.
00:09:56
Speaker
That used to just like it felt so nurturing when oftentimes she wasn't that way. And so i can, ah i I resonate with, you know, the faults of our parents, um but then being able to pull some of those memories. I'm glad you were able to pull some of them. That's great.
00:10:13
Speaker
I love that you said nurturing because I wouldn't do not associate that word with my mother at all. And in that moment with my brother lying on the bed with her singing, that wasn't, that was like that moment.
00:10:30
Speaker
that hit me hard in the heart, that word nurturing, because I really try
Joni's Journey: From Childhood Aspirations to Adult Intentions
00:10:35
Speaker
to provide that to my own children. And um I have not even thought about that in regard to myself until you said that.
00:10:46
Speaker
what's What's coming up for you right now as you think about you as a mother having raised the kids that you've raised with the example that you got? What what's what are you feeling right now? Gratitude. Gratitude. I tell you, Reggie, um probably lots of moms will say this.
00:11:02
Speaker
Mine probably didn't, but I have the most wonderful children in the world in the sense that they are loving, kind, caring. They're affectionate. My daughter, who's 20, still crawls up on top of me if I'm in the chair when she comes in just to lay there for a moment.
00:11:25
Speaker
My 25-year-old son, if I'm sitting, he'll come sit on my knees and let me scratch his back. um My 23-year-old son, who's living with us for just a short period, every morning hugs me before he leaves.
00:11:39
Speaker
And not like, you know, like, love you, bye. We do that too. But he'll give me a real hug with a real squeeze and like- I just, I'm so proud of the people they are. And I think it is because my husband and I both have always just been open, loving, affectionate, present. We weren't their best friends. You know, we we're still starting to get that way now. But when they were young, we had definite lines of parents and child. But we never, we never put their value in anything that they didn't.
00:12:15
Speaker
did or didn't do, always in who they are. And i wouldn when we talk about this nurturing, I feel very, very proud of the way I've raised my children.
00:12:27
Speaker
I mean, we're not perfect. We have all the stories like everybody else, but they've grown up to be really decent, good people. That is kudos to you, mama and papa.
00:12:38
Speaker
Kudos to both of y'all because, I mean, y'all did that. And it's amazing to to to see, you know through generations. I talk about generational trauma and generational healing in my book and and a lot of the discussions that I have. And to break a cycle of pain, to to change the narrative is something that you've done. and so, If I were to interview your children, they would have different stories to say and they would they would know that mom is nurturing and they would experience that. And so ah i'm I'm so proud and and happy to hear that that has been the experience and that you have gratitude toward that with your kids. It's so amazing. so
00:13:17
Speaker
Um, I I'm curious how you, uh, when you, when you said your mom told you could be anything in the world, what were your initial thoughts about what that would be?
Discovering Personal Agency & Coaching Journey
00:13:27
Speaker
Um, and how has that shifted to the career that you've chosen?
00:13:30
Speaker
This is a funny story. um Of course, when I was a little, little like that, I had no idea. um i remember in high school, we did those um career assessment and they tell you, you know what jobs would be good for you.
00:13:45
Speaker
I'll never forget this. Mine came back as either a prison guard or a cruise director. Some people might think they're similar. I don't know. so But if you asked me in high school what I wanted to be, i would have told you i wanted to be a solid gold dancer. And you're probably taking you too young to know what that is.
00:14:11
Speaker
i Yeah. I just thought that was the adjective that went before it. What? I thought that was the adjective that went before it. It sounds like it was a proper now. No, no, no. ok say There was a show um when I was a kid and it was like a variety show, but they did the countdown for whatever the popular music was. And they had this team of dancers who would come and dance for that little segment. And so it was a thing as a kid you'd watch and i' like, oh, I want to be with that. So I wanted to be a solid gold dancer and a motivational speaker.
00:14:40
Speaker
Okay. And you, and you, you have danced. Yeah. yes And you teach dance. Yes. And you are a motivational speaker. Yes. So look at those childhood dreams coming true. Let's go. I know.
00:14:54
Speaker
It's wild to look back um and see that, um you know, and I and i believe, i believe that what we think and what we focus on, you know, we plant those seeds and we create those things. And um there's been so many things in my life like that, that,
00:15:11
Speaker
They could be just 100% coincidental, which they likely are. But then looking back and you're like, oh, that did happen. Yeah. i I always said when I was young, we were very poor. So i was like, i always want a white car. My entire life, adult life, I've driven a white car, except maybe one.
00:15:32
Speaker
i had one silver car at one time. um When I was in high school, I found in my book, you know, ah back then they had these books you'd write in, like what you will be in five years or what you mean. I was going to be married and have two boys and a girl in that order.
00:15:45
Speaker
Wow. That's what I have. Wow. You manifested your life. Yeah, think in some ways. Yeah. Wow. when When did it start to shift for you where you realized that you had the agency to to really impact your own life? Like when when did that start to change in your my mind?
00:16:05
Speaker
Oh, so this is interesting. So I've always been one of those people who lives in metacognition, meaning thinking about what I'm thinking about. And for um a number of years, I just thought i was a little cuckoo. Something's wrong with me. I have this voice in my head and I'm having this conversation. And then you don't really think it about it again. And then when I found coaching, um so I've been coaching since 2020, and I started learning all the language around ah agency, awareness, metacognition, the whole concept of, you know, and there's you and you have a brain and your brain gives you thoughts and that, you know, your thoughts are not you and that you have this ability.
00:16:47
Speaker
I was blown away because I was all of a sudden like,
00:16:51
Speaker
That's what this is all about. This is normal. And then I looked back to like to my youth and to I remember specifically my husband i were dating and we were fighting and I remember having this conversation in my head like. Are going cry? Are you really going to cry right now? This is ridiculous. This is not a reason to cry. And so in the moment, while I'm still conversing with him and having this thing, I'm having this conversation back here. And I thought I was nuts.
00:17:19
Speaker
um But come to find out, and I started coaching. I found coaching when I was at 50. So like it was mind blowing. Like, oh, this is so empowering. This is normal. But but why do we not teach people this? Why 30 years in health care?
00:17:40
Speaker
Why didn't no one explain this to me ever in my life? And so that was the turning point for everything when you realize you're in charge of yourself and not just what your brain tells you is the truth.
00:17:56
Speaker
Wow, that's powerful. And to be able to have the awareness, because I mean, it is normal for to to anybody listening. Like if you feel like it's crazy or or nuts to talk to yourself in your head, like that is normal. We're going to do that. And that like we ought to do that. And there are so many ah benefits that come from that.
00:18:17
Speaker
ah But to be able to recognize the separation that you are not your thoughts, that the things that you've even the the thoughts that you even have and have had for most of your life, they may belong to somebody else. And it's like up to us to to actively um reconstruct those that are in a beneficial way to us. So um that's powerful. And you said you you got into coaching at 50. So I'm curious, were there any other.
00:18:47
Speaker
um modalities or did you go to therapy or were there any mentors or books that you had read before that that helped you kind of grapple with that? Well, I've always been a sucker for positive ah motivational speakers. So I've seen Zig Ziglar twice in person when I was a teenager.
00:19:06
Speaker
And I was always inspired by this idea that you can be and have anything you want in your life as long as as you help other people get what they want and need. And that, you know, just his, um I used to put his his quotes different places, different times in my life. And just this idea that it's it's you.
00:19:31
Speaker
You are in charge of how you show up and all of these things. So other than that, and then I did do some self-help, but I didn't really find like Brene Brown and some of these more... um famous people until I started really digging into coaching.
00:19:50
Speaker
um One of my mentors in the hospital, she was looking for a graduate program. She's now doing her PhD at Rochester in nursing research. She she she called me and said, hey, Joni, I found this thing called nurse coaching program. I think, you know, this is up your alley. And at the time, this was like 2019. And I was like, I have time. I'm working. I'm teaching my my fitness classes. I'm raising kids, you know. But what she did was she planted that seed. And so I started on my own, like researching, what is coaching? What does this mean? And, you know, and then it just opened this whole world of of possibilities. And so that's when I started, like, maybe I should do this thing.
00:20:33
Speaker
Yeah. like Before we get into that, can we go back to when you decided to commit your career to service of others as ah as a nurse and a very technical nurse
Path to Nursing: Impact through Health & People
00:20:45
Speaker
at that? ah You were in in cardiovascular nursing. And how did how did you get to that point? And what did you gain from that experience? Okay, that's another funny roundabout story. So i had gone to college right out of high school, like most people, and just floundered.
00:21:04
Speaker
Partied, changed my major, struggling, you know working, all of the things with absolutely no direction. I look back, i don't even know how I got it got to college because I did all the applications, everything by myself. I didn't have anybody at the time to help. So looking back, you're like, I don't even know how I got in, but I did. um Where'd you go? You want to give it a shout out?
00:21:26
Speaker
Where? Where'd you go? you i started That's where I started. I started here in Stillwater at Oklahoma State University. And then I ended up tre going to five different schools and then getting married and going back to school. So I guess the main thing I got out of the first two years of school was my husband.
00:21:43
Speaker
That's a good thing. We met my first day at college. Wow. And so I struggled. And then we got married. I left school. I didn't graduate. I didn't know what I was wanted. I changed my major five times. And all along, my husband said, oh, you should go to nursing school.
00:22:00
Speaker
And because he said it, I was absolutely not going to do it.
00:22:06
Speaker
So I worked in the real world for a couple of years and realized I needed to go back to school, that I need ah a degree, I need to have an income. And um so that was a good experience. I decided to go to nurse. I decided to look to take his advice and I took a job as a nurse's aide in a nursing home.
00:22:24
Speaker
And it was because I wanted to see if I had what it took. And that was the hardest job I ever had. It was literally the hardest, lowest paid job I ever had.
00:22:35
Speaker
But I saw, you know, the impact on real people's lives. And I think that's where my love of the that aging population started. And so i was like, yes, I want to do this. And so I went back to nursing school 25. I'd already been married three years. And of course, you know, you're a different person.
00:22:53
Speaker
You're grown up. I had different experiences. ah motivations and school was a breeze. I made A's and everything was great. And I went directly into emergency room. I've only been a cardiovascular nurse for about three years. Prior to that, I did all different things, emergency nursing, outpatient surgery. And then I spent 10 years in health and wellness as our medical fitness supervisor for our hospital's medical fitness facility, which is kind of when I fell in love with fitness.
00:23:24
Speaker
Okay. Wow. That's a journey and a ah ah journey of of perseverance, ah a journey of like stick to it and keep going. Because I think about like when you look at the statistics on either transferring or or not continuing through the four years when you initially start, like the dropout rates are high. And for you to find your passion, to to keep going, to listen to your husband and... Eventually.
00:23:53
Speaker
right He's right a lot. That's amazing. That's amazing. You said you gained a ah passion for working with the elderly population during that time.
00:24:05
Speaker
Are there any patient stories that stand out to you that really sparked that interest?
Zumba Classes: Cross-Generational Community Building
00:24:10
Speaker
How much time you got, Reggie Ford? Let's hear it. I want to hear something. Give me something good. Oh, my gosh. There are so many. And and really, let me start here. When I started teaching Zumba, that's my fitness format, in 2006 when nobody knew what it was. That is kind of really was the beginning of my my combination of medical fitness.
00:24:33
Speaker
fitness and that forged a whole new direction in my career. And that's when i I moved over into medical fitness and all of this. But what I found at that time was a way to help larger groups of people versus just like a patient. And so my initial demographic was people just like me. i was a, i was a young mom, just had a baby. i was in that place where you're just stressed.
00:25:01
Speaker
Um, My marriage was fine, but I was so mad at my husband all the time just because I was tired and, and you know, trying to raise three kids under five. Not by myself, but mostly by myself because he was working to support us. And when I found this fitness platform, it opened up this space for women, primarily occasional man, but mostly women to come together And we just recently talked about this in and in our program about combining exercise, music, rhythm, social connection, and all of the joy and energy that comes out of that for not just me, the instructor, but for the whole room. And so that's where I started building relationships. My love and passion of bringing people together. And so they were mostly my age at that time, you know, a little younger, a little older, but moms. And what we found is for one hour a day, we got to come together and be the girl we were before we became the wife, the mom, the responsible one.
00:26:05
Speaker
So it was like we were in the club, but it was 10 o'clock in the morning on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And we just got to be our young free selves. And so that's where it started as I begin to build this network of people. And some of those people are still with me 20 years later. wow um Also 20 years older and in the different times in their lives. But when I started teaching, um it started bringing in people of different ages. And I can remember one class where I said, OK, stop. We have to stop. I said, anybody in your teens, raise your hand. And I went to teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, I had a representative of every demographic in one class.
00:26:49
Speaker
And I want you to look around. These are your sisters and your mamas and your grandmas and your nieces and your grandkids. And so that was like this cross-generational space that just rarely doesn't happen anymore. Wow.
00:27:05
Speaker
That, yeah, I you you rarely ever see that. Oh my goodness, how powerful that must have been for everybody in that room. Yeah. you Everybody in that room. Wow. I'm thinking about like myself as a teenager and being able to see somebody in their 80s still moving their body.
00:27:23
Speaker
because I don't think I grew up with seeing adults period workout, like, like other than like, maybe the, the like pro athlete, like I didn't see adults working out, stretching, moving, dancing, anything like that. And then for the 80 year old to, to see the teen, oh my goodness. Wow. That's powerful. And to be accepted, you know, not like the eighties are in the back either, you know, we're just, and that was to me is, and sometimes I think I need to write a letter to Beto Perez, Who's the founder of Zumba? Just in the number of lives that he affected. Because when I turned 40, my friend, I call my friends, my participants, they threw me a birthday party. And for the gift, what they gave me was this shoebox full of notes.
00:28:13
Speaker
And it said things like, my marriage is better because I'm happier. I don't take my inhalers anymore. I no longer need my antidepressants. I am whatever i age and I've never had this many friends before. Like that was what they gave me. And I still have it. And I still pull it out on occasion, even though that was a very long time ago. um That it was just this medium of music and joy and togetherness without judgment.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah. What a gift, though, to receive all those notes from people to tell you about the impact that you've had in their lives. Because i think like we sometimes we call it like giving people their flowers while they're here. We miss so many opportunities to give people flowers while they're here. And so that's why like when I see a spark in you, like I want to call it out. I want to call out your honesty and your joy and your zest and what you do to ah bring the glue to community because it's not only in our program. It sounds like it's been in different parts of your life too, within family and professional settings. So like I want to give you more flowers and to tell you that you ah you exude so many of the great characteristics that humans ought to have. And I hope that you keep leaning into that and growing and coaching more people to
00:29:38
Speaker
emulate that as well. Thank you. I love, I love, i love it. And coaching, um it transforms people's lives. And I just have seen it over and over. And so I'm just trying to figure out how to reach more and more people because life is so short that we don't have time to be miserable.
00:30:01
Speaker
If you were to ah describe the prototypical or ideal client of yours, who would that be?
00:30:13
Speaker
someone who is overwhelmed and wants to feel better in their life. That is literally it. My clients range from, I've worked with high school students. Right now I have a couple of college students and people all the way up into their 80s.
00:30:30
Speaker
I had a gentleman recent, well, not last year, um struggling with grief, overwhelmed from grief. And so what I have found is My client is not a demographic as far as age or you know um career. it is It is anybody who has a brain and a body and who wants to feel better. And the reason I say that is because They, my clients have come from almost every demographic you can think of from socioeconomic to educational, to age and location.
00:31:13
Speaker
And the process that I teach and that some of what we learned in MAP is, it is universal. It is understanding how your body works in relation to your brain and your emotions.
00:31:30
Speaker
And when you can figure that out, life is so much easier and you can let go of so much of the baggage that is not yours.
00:31:42
Speaker
um That's good. That's good. if If somebody was listening right now and they were thinking about coaching, but they've had these misconceptions about it, how would you debunk those? What are what are some top misconceptions about coaching that you would debunk?
00:31:58
Speaker
First of all, I think that just the toxic positivity, you know, that all's good, everything's good. You can just think your way out of it. um You can have a bubble bath and a candle and breathe your way out of it.
00:32:10
Speaker
You can, um you know, and and the thing is, there's nuggets of truth in those things, but it's portrayed sometimes in a way that where someone is just showering you with this positive juju that you're supposed to just take on and your life changes.
00:32:33
Speaker
And what, what I have learned and in my journey with coaching, because when, when I went before I became through my coaching academy, I did a lot of research on my own.
00:32:43
Speaker
After that, I continued to look in different areas. And what I have found is some people are really good at the physiological piece, calming their body, understanding their nervous system. um But then they go, okay, now what?
00:32:59
Speaker
Right now I'm calm. What now? And then some people are really good at the mind management or they have the ability to understand all of the, you know, the concepts. but they absolutely cannot do it because their body is in fight or flight. They're in their sympathetic nervous system. So it's it's a combination of these different pieces and understanding what you're capable of and when, and when you're not and why. And it's okay because it comes back to physiology. And so with my approach to coaching, which I think is a little bit different than a lot of people, is coming at it from this physiological side. When I came to coaching, that was for sure my lane. And then it opened up into the cognitive behavior type stuff.
00:33:47
Speaker
But what I know for sure, and so my capstone is sort of focusing on, is there is a place, this sweet spot that allows people to let positive psychology awareness agency work, but there's a setup to it
Car Metaphor in Coaching: Understanding Body & Mind
00:34:05
Speaker
beforehand.
00:34:05
Speaker
And without that, all the work is impossible and not because we're dumb, but because our prefrontal cortex is clamped. Yeah. That, that amygdala hijacking, like it, it will shut that down. It's like, you got this supercomputer in the front of your brain, but if some of the wires in the back of that thing are twisted up and not working right, it, you can't access it in the same way. And so,
00:34:34
Speaker
I love that. i can't wait to read your capstone and see what you do with that. ah you you You told me about ah a metaphor with a car. Can you explain that metaphor and how you use that in coaching?
00:34:46
Speaker
Absolutely. So what i coach on is how your body... You know, we manage our body, then we manage our mind, and then we have sort of a thought cycle process we can use. And I did that for a year or so. And then I taught and I was asked to speak in a high school. And I thought, OK, how am I going to teach these kids all of these sort of ah theoretical things and land for them? And so for whatever reason, I came up with the idea of a car, a driver, and a map. And since I did that first presentation that way, um I changed everything. And that is sort of my metaphor, my analogy that I use always, and it lands always. So the idea is that your body is the car, your physical body
00:35:38
Speaker
And there's several components to it. You've got the actual body of your car, which the analogy is your sensations, your physiological sensations, your heart pounding, your throat feeling tight, your stomach twisting. It's like the ding in the car, the knocking noise. You've got a sound system.
00:35:57
Speaker
um And whatever's on that sound system, the whatever's coming out of it, whether it's like angry hard rock, soft um jazz, relaxing jazz,
00:36:08
Speaker
Intellectual podcast, salacious book, whatever, that creates the energy, the vibration in your car. That's our emotion. Are we feeling happy, sad, sexy, angry?
00:36:21
Speaker
And then your car has a dashboard. Your dashboard has warning signals. Things like check engine, ah tires low.
00:36:32
Speaker
I get lane departure warning. Whatever. you know Those warning lights, some of them are pre-programmed. Some of them you can adjust and program. And in my analogy, that is our, I call it our car brain, our reactionary brain, system one thinking. It is that immediate um thought that pops in your head, that immediate warning signal. And things like,
00:36:56
Speaker
This is going to suck. You're never going to do well. Everybody's going to hate you. Why did you do that? Just these immediate reactionary thoughts um that are built in.
00:37:07
Speaker
So that's the car. And in order to manage the car, you have to breathe. So breathing allows us slow, deep diaphragmatic breathing, which affects your vagus nerve, helps you open and relax.
00:37:23
Speaker
Once we learn how to do that and then. okay so lot people know how to do that, right? Manage the car, manage your body. um Creating an emotional shift helps create hormonal changes. So when we create kindness, love or gratitude. then we open up a little bit.
00:37:42
Speaker
um And there's a lot of physiology to do with that, but I'm trying to stay on the positive psychology side um where broaden and build, right? Fredrickson's broaden and Explain that.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yes. um So when your nervous system is calmer, you have this ability to think things through. And the way I look at it from your nervous system, when you're in fight or flight,
00:38:09
Speaker
your body is going into survival and that can be actual danger or just perceived. Literally someone using a tone with you can flip you into it. And in physiology, the blood in your body goes to your heart and your muscles so you can survive and your body only cares about survival. So that's why your immune system is dialed down. Your your GI system is not functioning. it's why you can't, you know, your body doesn't care if you can pee or poop when you're in survival. Um,
00:38:40
Speaker
your The blood flow is not into your extremities. So that's why people get tingling. You know, your your brain goes into um hypervigilance. You cannot think thoughtfully about everything. And all of that is built in by design for survival. It's fabulous when we're in actual danger.
00:39:02
Speaker
The opposite of that is your parasympathetic, which I know you know all of this, is rest and heal. But the blood in your body flows to all the places. The oxygen goes to all the places. Your cortisol goes down. Your mood stabilizing hormones go up and your brain literally opens like a flower. And now you can think about what your options are.
00:39:27
Speaker
And the analogy I use here is like, imagine you're late for work. You lost your keys. The dog is bargaining. Someone's screaming at you. And The the question is, what's 42 times three? yeah Right.
00:39:38
Speaker
It's not that you're not smart and you can't figure it out. But in that moment, there's no way. And so I got off track here. That's the car. The driver of the car is just being able to notice that the car can sit in the parking lot or you can be in the car. And when you're the driver, you can notice what's playing on the radio. you can decide whether you want to hear it or not hear it. You can change it. You can notice and describe the sensations in your body when you're feeling them. Oh, my I'm feeling angry and my chest is pounding.
00:40:10
Speaker
You know, that you have the ability as the driver to see these things. And then most importantly, you have the ability to notice the warning signals and if they're helpful or true. Maybe it's telling you low fuel, but you know, there's a gas station in two miles.
00:40:25
Speaker
So when your brain is telling you, this is the worst possible thing that could happen. You could in that rest and heal place in the driver's seat say, oh, okay, well maybe that's not true. What else is also true? So you have this ability when you're in awareness to see the car, to drive the car, to get in and out of the car. Yeah.
00:40:49
Speaker
Yeah.
MAP Program's Influence on Coaching Practice
00:40:50
Speaker
um So we are currently at the University of Pennsylvania studying, getting our master's in applied positive psychology. And I'm curious if our program has shifted the way that you think about well-being or the way that you will approach coaching, approach life, approach relationship, any of that. Has our program shifted the way that you've thought about well-being?
00:41:16
Speaker
not shifted, but broadened, I would say, because ah sort of one of my reasons to come to this program was to either enhance, strengthen, or debunk the process that I was already using, the theories that I was coming at it from. And so far, there's nothing that's really changing. It's just broadening. What has really opened my heart and mind is the humanities and well-being. I had never really, other than music and dance, which
00:41:47
Speaker
is very important in in my wellbeing and and some of what I do. um Just this idea of art and literature um as being connected to wellbeing was brand new for me, that part.
00:42:06
Speaker
Oh, that's good. Yeah. And then just the gravitas, the research, the strength behind all of the things um that I'm already doing, which a lot of it I was already doing. I just didn't know the names of the theories or why they're successful. I just know that they work. So this program is really giving me the language, the vocabulary, the science behind the the coaching techniques and processes that are are I'm already using. So I'm excited about it.
00:42:42
Speaker
You mentioned broadened and build earlier as one of those theories and broadened and build is it was developed by Barbara Fredrickson and it's all around how positivity can help us one broaden the perspectives of our mind, the possibilities of the future. but then also help us build resources to lean on in times of stress, in times of trauma. And so when I first opened up, I asked you, you know what do you do in in times of stress? And I try to think get you to think about a positive childhood emotion because I know that many people, probably most people have negative things that they can go to quickly because negativity bias, which is is very prominent and has kept us alive throughout evolution. But when we're able to tap into that positivity, we are able to see possibilities that are not directly in front of us when we are in this negative tunnel vision state trying to survive. And I i think well not i think the research shows that when we are coming from that state that we're able to learn better, we're able to build better relationships, we're able to perform better in so many aspects of life. And i think for me, though it's a confirmation of so many of the things that I have, one, intuited,
00:44:01
Speaker
um throughout my life, but also have heard from, call it, you know, the famous authors that don't come from a scientific basis, but are speaking the same language. It's confirmed a lot of those things so that it gives me more confidence to speak on and write about these topics. So I've loved this program.
00:44:23
Speaker
Mm hmm. mean, it's phenomenal um from top to bottom. And just the more the the further we get into it, I can see sort of the process the the thoughts behind the process, even when our assignments are due and things like that. It's like, this is why they did that. Yeah. It's so intentionally done too. It is all so very intentional. If anybody is curious about positive psychology, please reach out to us or the University of Pennsylvania MAP program.
00:44:55
Speaker
They will be a great resource to guide you. And if you're looking to study it, I highly recommend it. And I think Joni, would you agree? Yes. And if if you're not looking for like a full master's program, I stumbled upon it in Coursera, which is a learning platform and they have foundations of positive psychology. One. They have, and it's actually from the UPenn program. That's, I i learned from Karen Ravitch.
00:45:24
Speaker
I didn't actually sign up. I just audited the courses. So you can do that for free and get this same kind of knowledge and information. And and it's phenomenal.
00:45:35
Speaker
Wow. Wow. I didn't know that. That's cool. I got a, I got a question for you.
Flourishing & Resilience in Positive Psychology
00:45:40
Speaker
What does flourishing feel like in your body? In my body? Mm-hmm.
00:45:49
Speaker
Oh, I would say, i don't know if you can feel hopeful in your body. I mean, I know hopeful is more of an emotion, but it feels, real so physiologically, it feels relaxed and with a slight tension.
00:46:09
Speaker
Explain that tension. What does that So not relaxed like you're going to go to sleep, you know, because I'm trying to think of sensations now, but it feels... Slightly energetic, but peaceful.
00:46:22
Speaker
I don't know if that makes sense. No, I get it. i get it. i think because because I meditate and in a lot of people who probably haven't meditated or don't understand what it's like, they may think that you're just resting or trying to be as relaxed as possible. But the whole intention is around presence and mindfulness and staying connected. And so if I fell asleep, it I'm not very mindful because that's not the intention of that practice.
00:46:51
Speaker
uh and so there is an active part to it all um so i get that that's that's nice i like that like an underlying buzz of energy that feels good you know you're you're hopeful you're productive you're not necessarily productive you want to be productive motivated i guess is the word and just joyful Yeah.
00:47:14
Speaker
Yeah. You're saying a lot of lot of the character strengths that ah you possess, which i I love that that comes out in our language because it's important to us. Before we close out, I got another um segment that is fill in the blank.
00:47:30
Speaker
And so you think of the first thing that comes to mind and you fill in these four blanks. Resilience is blank.
00:47:42
Speaker
Resilience is, the very first thing that came in my voice my mind was recovery, but I don't know if that's right. Resilience is- There's no right or wrong. Okay. Yeah. Recovering from whatever.
00:47:54
Speaker
My body is always trying to tell me blank.
00:48:00
Speaker
Go. Yes. Hell yeah. When I feel overwhelmed, I remind myself blank. God is good. Life is short. People matter.
00:48:18
Speaker
And lastly, when I need inspiration, I turn to blank. Prayer. Man, ah this has been fantastic, Joni. And I think we could talk for hours and hours and uncover even more layers of the onion of who Joni is and the work that you do. But I think you've given the audience a gift in the stories, in your personality, in how you show up in the world. And I thank you for that. It's been an honor for me to be here and witness it. So I appreciate you so much for this.
00:48:54
Speaker
Oh, thank you. And i am just, um we met the first day um at our program. I think we sat in the same row. I can't remember. But I just remember being inspired from you, by you from day one, um to be so um accomplished. And I don't mean that in the sense of traditional accomplished, which you are, but accomplished emotionally and mentally in your journey. And not only to to be that and to have that, to do that, but to be wanting and willing to share it with those who are coming behind you. um I think that's so needed in our world right now to have men, young men, masculine men who are also loving and kind and open and aware.
00:49:46
Speaker
And so I thank you for what you're doing for, and then now even reaching down to the littles. Yeah. That's huge. Definitely.
00:49:58
Speaker
And it's it's so needed in our world right now. So thank you for that and for um inviting me here today and into your world. And I just can't wait to watch you just explode in your career as you're already doing.
00:50:14
Speaker
Thank you. i appreciate that. And ah appreciate you reminding me, bringing up the
Reggie's Children's Book 'I Am the Rose'
00:50:20
Speaker
littles. I just released this children's book that is right there over my head. It's blurred out. But um I Am the Rose is I'm so excited to share that. It's it's about all about resilience and hoping a lot of what you were talking about, just, ah you know,
00:50:36
Speaker
feeling it in your body and and knowing it and believing it. um There are exercises in the back that help to connect to regulate nervous system. And I think it's something that young people need more access to and they need to incorporate it into their daily lives, regular routine, grow up with it so that they're not learning later on in life how to do these things, that they're just a part of their everyday life.
00:51:02
Speaker
so Yeah, they don't have to wait till they're 50.
00:51:08
Speaker
Joni, if someone is feeling stuck, is feeling overwhelmed with life, is experiencing grief and needs somebody to work with, how can they get in touch with you? Oh, nice and easy. So my coaching name is Coach Joni O. That is my website, www.coachjonioneal.com.
00:51:27
Speaker
um I always offer just a free coaching session, consultation, no strings attached. um My success in coaching, I 100% believe comes from my um desire to help um if it goes both ways. ah So I never, I'm never a hard sell. I don't do any of that. If people like what they hear and nine times out of 10, they do, um and they want to work with me, um I'm available.
00:51:59
Speaker
Awesome. Awesome. Joni, this has been a pleasure. With all the things that you could be doing, all the places you could be, i appreciate you being here with me, embracing vulnerability. Oh, thank you, Reggie. I enjoyed it so much.
Embracing Vulnerability: Invitation to 'Vulnerability Muscle' Community
00:52:13
Speaker
Thank you for joining us in another episode of Vulnerability Muscle. If you've enjoyed these conversations around vulnerability, please consider leaving a review. Your feedback not only motivates us to continue to do the work that we do, but it allows other people to witness the power of vulnerability. Share your thoughts.
00:52:32
Speaker
on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcasts, or wherever you're listening from. And don't forget to spread the word. You can follow us at vulnerabilitymuscle on Instagram and me personally at Reggie D. Ford across all platforms.
00:52:47
Speaker
Visit vulnerabilitymuscle.com for additional resources and support. And remember, embracing vulnerability is not a sign of weakness. It is the source of your greatest strength.
00:52:58
Speaker
Sometimes it's uncomfortable. but most workouts are. So keep flexing that vulnerability muscle.