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The Science of Emotional Dysregulation: What Is It and How It Affects Us (feat. Dr. Cindy Hovington)
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In episode 69 of The Therapy4Dads Podcast, join host Travis Goodman as he welcomes guest Dr. Cindy Hovington to discuss what emotional dysregulation is from a scientific perspective. They delve into the term "dysregulation" and its internal and external aspects regarding emotional events. The discussion takes a deep dive into the science behind dysregulation and its effects physiologically and neurologically. The conversation continues with strategies that parents can practice to regulate their emotions, including mindfulness and practicing gratitude with their children. The speakers also highlight the importance of modeling emotions and communication to help children develop emotional skills. Tune in to learn about emotion regulation skills and how they take time to develop while requiring patience, repetition, and grace.
Dr. Cindy Hovington is a neuroscience Ph.D. based in Montreal. Her research focused on schizophrenia and psychosis in youth, particularly the emotional and cognitive aspects of mental health. As a parent, she struggled with handling her children's tantrums despite her extensive knowledge on brain development and emotion regulation. This inspired her to start the blog Curious Neurons, primarily discussing the science of emotions and child development. Recently, she has shifted her focus to emotional and mental health in both children and parents, extending her work to a free resource for parents. She also created an app called Wonder Grade for children aged three to eight, aimed at teaching emotion regulation skills. Cindy is dedicated to sharing her knowledge and helping others manage big emotions effectively.
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Transcript
Introduction to Emotional Dysregulation
00:00:00
Speaker
I just think that parents have to understand what dysregulates themselves. I want to repeat that because the more you can understand what dysregulates you and it happens by taking notes and understanding your environment, the more you can help your child.
Podcast Overview: Therapy for Dads
00:00:13
Speaker
This is a Therapy for Dads podcast. I am your host. My name is Travis. I'm a therapist, a dad, a husband. Here at Therapy for Dads, we provide content around the integration of holistic mental health, well-researched evidence-based education, and parenthood. Welcome.
00:00:32
Speaker
Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the Therapy for Dads podcast.
Meet Cindy from Curious Neuron
00:00:35
Speaker
I say this a lot, but I'm so excited to talk to this individual today. I've had the pleasure of being on her podcast not too long ago. I was very honored to be able to be on her platform and share
00:00:47
Speaker
I'm kind of from a dad's man's perspective around emotions and different things like that and kind of doing a little deep dive series on brain development and kids and different things like that and Cindy from the curious neuron which is an awesome name by the way very catchy and I love it.
00:01:04
Speaker
Um, this is a big area of expertise for her with her research and what she's doing on her platform and just life as well as who she is. And so I don't want to spill the beans too much, but welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad you're on and so stoked to talk to you today. So welcome.
Cindy's Journey into Emotional Health
00:01:20
Speaker
Hi, Travis. I'm really happy to be here. I think this topic is a topic we need to talk a lot more about in society and as parents mostly, and I'm excited to talk about it with you. Yeah. Well, you're calling from Canada. Where in Canada are you about? Yes, I'm based in Montreal, hence the French accent. And I did a PhD in neuroscience here at McGill University. I studied schizophrenia and psychosis in early in youth. And for me, what I focused on was a lot of the emotional aspects of mental health and
00:01:49
Speaker
the cognitive aspects of mental health in these individuals. And once I became a parent, that emotion part really triggered me. I was like, why do I, you know, I know all this science behind like my kids kind of development of the brain and emotions and how they developed. I had to learn that that whole part for my PhD and is why can't I handle these tantrums?
00:02:08
Speaker
what's wrong with me i thought i i knew all this stuff right so i naively went into parenting thinking you know i've got this it's not hard i understand emotion regulation skills but i had never understood emotion regulation skills in myself so i started curious neuron i started blogging about the science of emotions and what that meant and i touched on all aspects of development but recently i'm focusing a lot more on emotional health and mental health because
00:02:31
Speaker
i've noticed that not just kids but parents need a lot more of that knowledge and that understanding about their emotions and how to manage big emotions all day because we have a lot of big emotions just like kids so that's what i've been doing and i've extended my work so curious neuron
00:02:47
Speaker
is a free resource for parents. There's a blog and I have a podcast and I have social media, a YouTube channel, but I've also extended this emotional regulation and how to teach this to kids into an app that I have called Wonder Grade. So it's for kids ages three to eight.
Impact of Parental Dysregulation on Children
00:03:03
Speaker
And I try to find any way possible to get this information out.
00:03:07
Speaker
And that's really why I wanted you on is for everything you just said like all those reasons is why I wanted you to be on the podcast because we We have a similar passion and drive-in heart for this myself being a you know, mental health therapist as well You've done significant research on the on brain development and things like that, which is a little different than what I've done But we're in the same field and so hearing your passion becoming a parent I too trained into motion regulation and trauma I mean I do that every day for my job is what I do and
00:03:35
Speaker
And even then it's not always easy and also with our kids and feeling that kind of. Disregulated state, which is just part of being human for various reasons as part of going through life is you stressed out or whatever and you have low energy, you haven't eaten, you know, various reasons that could cause us to be dysregulated or have big emotions. And so do your kiddos. And so.
00:03:54
Speaker
I too have a heart and passion for helping parents and even more specifically dads and men because really the need of helping us understand our states helps us help our kids. And so what you're doing is totally spot on and the topic of today is dysregulation.
00:04:13
Speaker
Really, I think a great place to start with that is, well, what is
Understanding Emotional Dysregulation
00:04:17
Speaker
it? Let's have a working definition. I know it's very research term science, but I think, hey, you know what? Let's get some science in here. That's why I brought you on. You could really speak to that and get into the nitty gritty brain stuff. But what is a working definition of dysregulation?
00:04:30
Speaker
Yeah, we're hearing that term a lot recently and I think what really marked me as a parent that posted in my comments a couple months ago was, you keep saying this regulation, but what does it mean? And I realized that I had never really defined it or explained it. And the way that I like to explain it is picture some sort of emotional event. Somebody says something to you or something happens with your kids.
00:04:51
Speaker
that moment you are going to experience an internal aspect to that emotional event and an external aspect. So internally there'll be an emotion or feeling that you're experiencing that's causing perhaps some increased heart rate, increased breathing rate, you might not even realize it but you might be sweating a little bit more or the temperature changes so there's an internal aspect to that. You know your thoughts might turn to something negative or you know something might happen internally or many things might happen.
00:05:20
Speaker
then in addition to that there's a lot going on externally you're going to behave a certain way whether that's verbal or non-verbal you're going to communicate things a certain way your tone might change so there's a lot that's happening and i i like to explain it this way as well for kids just to touch on tantrums like for three seconds because i'm also trying to remove that word tantrum from our vocabulary not that it's i don't think it's a bad thing however we're using it
00:05:46
Speaker
to kind of point fingers at toddlers and kids saying like oh they're having these tantrums these terrible twos when in essence they're teach me twos because they are having these dysregulated moments so if we see them as having a dysregulated moment and we start using that word a lot more with ourselves as well we see each other as similar in terms of emotions which we are
00:06:06
Speaker
we're human and they're going to experience it more because of certain reasons which we'll explain soon I'm guessing like there's a brain you know a biological reason but we just our brain has developed so we're not experiencing them all the time but you know I could say that I have two three tantrums a week
00:06:22
Speaker
if we use it the same way as toddlers. And I'm okay with saying that because there are moments when I'm completely dysregulated and it's like an emotional hijacking
Parental Emotional Awareness
00:06:31
Speaker
in the brain. You're not really thinking anymore. You're just acting or behaving or it could be aggressive or not. But they have it and we have it too. So just wanted to touch on the toddlers to give them a little shout out.
00:06:42
Speaker
I think it's needed. I too, I think it can be punitive and it's tantrum, it's bad, we need to stop it. I think that's what I'm, a lot of what I hear when parents come in is like, oh, they're tantruming and they're having meltdowns and it's often in a us versus them thing. You know, we got to fix the problem and that's the problem. Is there bad behavior? Those that are listening, it's bad behavior.
00:07:03
Speaker
And I love how you put it, it's dysregulation, it's emotion dysregulation, and that just like we have it, or if we want to use the word tantrum, we have to also apply it to ourselves. I tell parents all the time, it's like, well, when was your last tantrum? And they look at me, and I unpack it for them.
00:07:19
Speaker
And I just had Tina Bryson on, Dr. Tina Bryson, she said that, similar to you, is that really the behavior of a kid, a child, is communicating a need or a skill that has yet to be learned or strengthened, so to speak. So the tantrum is really communicating that there's a need that they don't have yet or a skill that has yet to be really exercised.
00:07:40
Speaker
So I think these are great reframes of really us as parents coming alongside to help build these skills. So I love the way you put that.
00:07:52
Speaker
And if you use that, what you just said, we can apply that to us as well, right? So let's
The 'Zones' Metaphor for Regulation
00:07:56
Speaker
take that definition. For me, I think that when we are having many of these dysregulated moments in our home or with our family, there's some sort of unmet need. And this is what I try to communicate to parents.
00:08:11
Speaker
If you're having these big emotional moments and yelling a lot, a lot of parents feel guilty around that and feel that, why am I doing this? What's wrong? Why did I react that way? And I'll get emails from parents telling me I went from zero to 100 and I don't know why. I just do it all the time and then I feel bad and I go to bed and I'm thinking about it.
00:08:31
Speaker
and I tell myself, I won't do tomorrow and then breakfast happens and then I lose it again. You know, for me, it's not that you went from 0 to 100, it's that you really didn't recognize the 1 to 99.
00:08:42
Speaker
And that one to 99 could have been, um, I dunno sensory simulation, like overstimulation that you didn't recognize. It could have been comments from your partner or your kids having big emotions that you keep having to co-regulate and you're always the strong one and you're, that's not hard. It's not easy to do. It's very difficult. So by the end of the day.
00:09:03
Speaker
that 4 p.m. ish time, we kind of lose it more. It's because we are dysregulated and we're not entombed with ourselves and our emotions and we're just kind of like plowing through the day and then the end of the day happens and we can't keep her cool and we get mad at ourselves too and we get mad at our kids and we yell at them. I think if we become more emotionally aware as parents and we
00:09:27
Speaker
Start to understand what disregulates us why to understand our nervous system to understand how our childhood impacted our emotions and it's it's There could be trauma, but sometimes there isn't sometimes it just comes from a place where your home wasn't emotionally safe and that doesn't mean that you weren't physically safe or mentally safe and
00:09:47
Speaker
It just means that you
History of Emotional Intelligence
00:09:49
Speaker
didn't have a space to express your emotions or that your parents didn't teach you what it felt like to feel certain emotions and how to cope with them. So if you didn't grow up that way, which most of us didn't, because when you think of emotions, the emotional intelligence and all of that really started in the 90s, which is just like yesterday. So we really have to realize that our parents didn't have the tools and emotions were often viewed as bad behavior, including in my home.
00:10:17
Speaker
So there's a lot that plays into that, but the more we become emotionally aware parents, the more that we could really understand ourselves and then control ourselves more in certain situations.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah. And so we have this, and I totally, totally agree, same, same thing, raised in a home, you know, it wasn't necessarily overt trauma, but it was just a lack of, you know, don't feel this, go to your room, things like that. Right.
Modeling Emotional Regulation for Children
00:10:39
Speaker
It wasn't a lot of emotional conversation around emotions. We didn't really talk about it. So it was more of an absence of something. And so you write as a kid, you're left with like, what do I do with this? You have to figure it out and you can turn into different things.
00:10:49
Speaker
So we have this working definition of, you know, what it is, what is dysregulation, and why the importance of reframing it is that we all have this, whether we're 5 or 55, you know, 95. It just might look slightly different, you know. A 55-year-old may not go on the floor tantruming and throwing things. Maybe. I mean, it's not out of the realm of complete possibility. It could happen. It just might look a little more sophisticated.
00:11:13
Speaker
But we have the same responses because we're all human, we all have this, right? So can you speak more about some of these kind of internal external signs to be building awareness for adults and or signs as well as as we look at our kiddos. How do we start to like become more aware of these things? What does it actually look like? Yeah, so the first thing I like to tell parents is to just ask yourself the question like how regulated am I right now and to do that multiple times per day.
00:11:38
Speaker
Um, I like to picture some sort of like green, yellow and red zone meter thing in my head. I played a lot of Mortal Kombat when I was growing up and I just think of that, you know, like you start in the green zone, you get a couple of punches, you're in the yellow zone, you get kicked. Oh, you're in the red zone. And then last kick, then you're flashing red and that last kick you're out.
00:11:56
Speaker
So you made me laugh because it brought me back because I also play monochrome. Yeah, there you go. But having that sort of visual throughout the day and waking up, when you wake up, it's not a brand new day when it comes to your brain. It's a continuation of yesterday and it's a continuation of your life. So if you, and I say that because I think sometimes parents say like, it'll be better tomorrow.
00:12:18
Speaker
it might be but if again depending on your childhood you might have you might always or consistently be in the yellow
Components of Emotional Regulation
00:12:26
Speaker
zone maybe closer to the green zone or maybe there's a range right so if if you had some sort of trauma or experience some something in your childhood you might have trouble getting into that green zone and you need to be aware of that so
00:12:38
Speaker
asking yourself, you know, how regulated am I? And what it feels like to be regulated is calm, completely focused. Well, because concentration isn't impacted by your level of dysregulation. Your thoughts are positive. You, you know, just feel like you can tackle the day and nothing will stop you, right? It's that kind of really calm feeling. And it doesn't necessarily have to be happy, but, you know, yes, calm and content. And, you know, there's so many ways of describing our emotions.
00:13:09
Speaker
Mark Brackett mentioned 64, I think. So when we ask ourselves how we're feeling, it's a little bit different now because I'm thinking about my tension level, I'm thinking about a little bit more than that. So if you are in the yellow zone, perhaps you have a deadline for work or perhaps you had a discussion or a heavy argument with your partner the night before that's unresolved. Perhaps you spoke with a family member and you hung up on each other and you weren't really happy with that.
00:13:36
Speaker
If there's a little bit of something on your mind or I don't know, I use the example of my toddler when he would jump into my bed in the morning and kick me in the face by mistake, I wake up dysregulated. I mean, I would wake up dysregulated because nobody wants to wake up that way in shock of like, what's this in my face?
00:13:52
Speaker
So it's not that I wanted to, but I mean, you know, I'd wake up in the yellow zone and I'd have to consciously try to bring myself in the green zone because I just didn't like being woken up that way. So just being aware of like where you're, what you're feeling in that moment and what's on your mind, stress levels that you might have unresolved emotions that, you know, you haven't been able to deal with yet. Um, and the heavier they are, you might be in the red zone. You might be in a, in a place where.
00:14:21
Speaker
any little thing will throw you off and you are constantly telling yourself, I need to make it through the day, but you just started your day. So that's the red zone. You're not focusing because your mind is somewhere else and you're just about to explode and you're very aware of that.
00:14:38
Speaker
Now, some parents ask me, great, so if I start my day in the red zone, what's that, what's going to change if I'm, you know, at breakfast with my kids and somebody, one of them spills milk and I lose it. So being aware of means that you will have to speak to yourself differently in those moments. That's kind of like the mindfulness part of it, right? So your child spills milk to take a moment, don't
00:15:02
Speaker
You know, you take a moment to respond and to think to yourself and to say, I'm really dysregulated right now. Or you might yell. You might have a moment where you lose it. And I don't want parents to think that it's you, like success is never yelling. That's not it. If you have to let it out, let it out. But if you can take a moment to say to yourself, I'm completely dysregulated. It's not about them. It wasn't their fault. They knocked it over. I saw.
00:15:24
Speaker
then just take a breath and then respond to it don't react right away create a pause between the action and your reaction to just take a moment same thing with your partner right like you can have a morning where you're completely dysregulated you're in the red zone and then you notice the dishes are still in the sink and
00:15:40
Speaker
you just want to lose it maybe speaking about it instead right telling them i i thought i i expressed that i needed some help last night i i'm already feeling stressed because of whatever or you know i had an argument with my mother or my father on the phone last night and it's on my mind
00:15:55
Speaker
would you please be able to help me? Having that ability to communicate your needs and your emotions in that moment, just something that you can use as a way to kind of navigate your day with your emotions. So I start off with that, like asking myself where I am in that zone. Building awareness, right? Pausing to assess where am I. It's like taking a step back. I think of the stop skill, right? Stop, take a step back, breathe, observe yourself, surroundings, and then proceed mindfully, right?
00:16:22
Speaker
And I love the Mortal Kombat just made me laugh because it's so true and I totally visualized Street Fighter. I think I grew up playing those games in the arcade. So it totally brought me back and it's totally visually now that will never leave my head. Yeah, I think the first thing is building awareness is the first step is what I'm hearing is building awareness for ourselves as parents because we have to do that because our kids, their brains are still developing, they're still little and they most likely don't have that skill set yet
00:16:50
Speaker
or if they do still not strong enough yet to do it on the regular because their brains are so developed. And so we kind of, as we practice that, we're modeling that kind of pause. And so that's kind of step one. And I'm wondering if we kind of, because I want to do more about how we get out of it. Before we go into more like, okay, now what? Which I think is good that we laid just stepping back and pausing and taking a breath is a great first step in building awareness.
00:17:13
Speaker
But before we go into like resolving it, I think I would love to go a little bit more into like the geek stuff, the nerd stuff, the science of it of what's really happening physiologically, you know, neurologically when we get dysregulated. I think having a better understanding of that might help parents, better grasp. Oh, that's why it's not always easy. Like we just, you know, snap our fingers and all of a sudden we're you know,
00:17:36
Speaker
I'm calm and regulated or my kiddo might take time to go from totally dysregulated to now calm. Like why would I go in there? I tell my kid to breathe. They're not breathing. Now I'm upset and it was like five seconds and now we're more upset with each other and it's not working and I'm throwing everything out and I'm gonna go back to yelling, right? Because we have this idea, I think, even myself, is it should just work sometimes. So let's get a little nitty gritty here with the science. So can you tell me more what's happening?
00:18:00
Speaker
Yes. Inside. So I want everybody to picture like a mountain. So at the bottom of this mountain, you are in that green zone. You're fully regulated and your brain is functioning normally as
Brain Function During Dysregulation
00:18:10
Speaker
it should. Everything is talking to whatever it's supposed to be talking to in the brain. Then when you are slightly dysregulated, it's this information that's coming in and
00:18:18
Speaker
coming in, it's like a bottom-up approach. Dr. Bruce Perry talks about it this way and I love his example of this. So as you are getting dysregulated, there is less and less communication between your emotions part of the brain and your prefrontal cortex behind your forehead.
00:18:34
Speaker
this is what's happening now imagine yourself at the top of that mountain you or your child when you are in the red zone and fully dysregulated and your child is either having a tantrum or you are at your maximum and have nothing left you are not communicating with your frontal lobe similar to a child same as a child actually and you're not being you're not thinking through what you're doing you're not thinking through what you're saying you're not thinking through your actions that's why we have moments with our partners or
00:19:02
Speaker
friends or family members where we say I didn't mean to say that or I'm sorry that I said that it just came out because we're not thinking the same way that connection is not as strong anymore and we're not able to say because the amygdala the emotions part of the brain will talk to that prefrontal cortex and say hey I'm feeling frustrated what do I do with this now right so if we think about being at work and our boss says something to us you know we might be so angry in the moment but we can't say anything because
00:19:30
Speaker
I just so we're able to regulate ourselves enough to say I'm so pissed at this guy or this girl and I'm just gonna step back right now I'm not gonna flip the desk although I do want to and I'll picture it in my head but I know that I can't do that but we have moments where there's this emotional hijacking and it's gone we can't even do that right like we're at home and we
00:19:48
Speaker
We might throw something or we might say something that we regret, so we have those moments when we're dysregulated that nothing helps. What I want parents to picture is when you're in a really heated argument with your partner, if they were to see that you're really overreacting and your emotions are really big, you're at the top of that mountain, you are fully dysregulated, how does it feel for them to be like, calm down, take a breath?
00:20:10
Speaker
It doesn't feel good. You're like, shut up. Leave me alone. It makes it worse. Or I tell your partner if I told my wife she came and she had a hard time, like, just calm down. Just have a breath. It would just totally hurt. From yellow to red? Yeah. I would push her. I would probably throw her off the mountain.
00:20:31
Speaker
Well, the same thing applies with our kids, right? So I'm saying it that way as an adult because if you're with your partner and they're dysregulated, all they need in that moment is to feel seen, to feel heard, and to know that they have a safe space to express their emotions right now. And it's the same for our kids. But when they're having tantrums, we see it as behavioral. We have it as behavioral too. But if our kids are having these big emotions,
00:20:57
Speaker
And we can actually see it as them being dysregulated and needing to feel seen, to feel heard, and to be soothed in some way or feel safe, like Tina and Dan Siegel's books, right? To feel seen, safe, soothed is secure in the four S's. It applies to everything. It's explained in research differently, but it comes down to that. And we need that. It doesn't matter if we're 50 years old or five years old, we need that.
00:21:23
Speaker
So that's what our partner needs from us in that moment. And that's what our child needs from us from that moment. So parents will email me and they'll tell me, you know, I told my child to calm down or to take a deep breath when they were like having a tantrum.
00:21:36
Speaker
But if you picture them being at the top of the mountain, it will do absolutely nothing to say that to them. They can't even hear you. So you might be more upset. Yeah, exactly. It will. Exactly. So so when we're fully dysregulated, there's a disconnection
Importance of Emotion Validation
00:21:50
Speaker
in the brain. Our emotions are exaggerated. We just need to find a way to come back down and to bring that brain
00:21:57
Speaker
our brain back down to a regulated, you know, feeling regulated. There are many different ways of doing that, but sometimes with kids or even ourselves, it's just time and space. We need time away. Like I've explained to my kids, you know, sometimes when I'm feeling frustrated about something, there's a family member that I'll often have heated arguments with, and they know that, and sometimes they come to give me a hug. And I've explained to them that mommy sometimes needs a hug, but sometimes a hug makes it worse. When we're aware, when we're emotionally aware,
00:22:25
Speaker
of what regulates us and dysregulates us, we have to make some sort of list and we have to take notes throughout our day if a parent really wants to understand their level of dysregulation. It'll be different for you and very different for me. So I learned as a parent that I'm
00:22:41
Speaker
stimulated by by sights by like objects in the house so i i know kids have to be kids but i also i'm also aware that that could dysregulate me so if i see legos all over the floor with the magnetic tiles beside it with the dolls beside it who just saying it my heart is pounding
00:23:01
Speaker
You can feel your nervous system getting activated. Yes, because I'm picturing it. But all joking aside, it really dysregulates me. And also noise. I'm home with three kids all day and the sound and they're being kids. And it's not that you don't love your kids, but it dysregulates my nervous system.
00:23:20
Speaker
Around 4 or 5 p.m., that's when I bring in either quiet TV time or an app that they can play with with their headphones on or a puzzle that they can do or go outside. Something that I could be, because I'm emotionally aware, I'm able to say this is the time I need to regulate my system because I won't make it through dinner and I won't make it through bedtime. And that's what I mean.
00:23:43
Speaker
Yeah, and going back to, I love the mountain analogy, because what's happening internally, and I think that's so important is that as I was going through grad school and learning and understanding more, sometimes I forget because I get into my own, I'm at my capacity, even as a therapist. I'm always trying to be very honest on my podcast and say, I know these things, but it doesn't mean I'm far from perfect, I make mistakes.
00:24:04
Speaker
Now I repair, that's very important to repair when we do get upset or raise our voice or I'm dysregulated because we're modeling. But all to say is that we sometimes forget that there is something happening that we can't see with our eyes. And that's the part of the brain of the PFC, the prefrontal cortex. And you can tell me as a neuroscientist, right? It's completely underdeveloped at five, right? I mean, we got a long way to go, right? What's the average age, just so parents know this?
00:24:31
Speaker
2025. And typically females develop quicker in general, right, than boys. Boys tend to be a little lagging, at least in this part of the brain, you know, the impulse control stuff. And so we have to, that's so important as part of that mountain analogy that our kids, they may not have that yet. That connection's weak, maybe they're kind of hits it right, sometimes completely misses it, you know. And we have to remember that there's something happening in the brain that, because when they're in a dysregulated state, what part of the brain is activated?
00:25:01
Speaker
Well, the thalamus is activated because the thalamus is taking up all the sensory information from the outside world into the brain. So when you're, as you've pictured this like layered aspect, like the thalamus at the bottom, the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex at the top, they're all communicating with each other. And the thalamus is super activated and telling the amygdala, like, let's blow up those emotions, let's party. And then they're saying like, don't let the prefrontal cortex into this party. And then there's no communication.
00:25:28
Speaker
But that's what's happening in the brain so that's why we hear a lot about like these calming corners for kids or sensory items and how that's again that's such new research so I think being aware of that as a parent we can say I need calm right now or I need
00:25:47
Speaker
I don't know. I need to ground myself a little bit and go outside, get some sun or like just touch the grass with my feet. And that's what we hear about, but we don't understand why we're doing that sometimes, you know? And that's the aspect of like regulating your nervous system is that sensory part.
00:26:02
Speaker
Well, because then going back to that piece of the mountain, right? When you said, you know, because kids need to be seen, right? Yeah. And soothed, right? So meeting them where they are, not breathe. Because if I tell my kid to breathe, it's like telling my spouse, calm down, right? Especially when you're just regulated, because in that moment, she doesn't need me to say, calm down. She needs me to listen and maybe give her a hug, validate, right? Which actually... Validate, yeah.
00:26:26
Speaker
does something to the brain, so when we do that as parents, which is why when we say it to our kids sometimes, calm down, take a breath, it's like they get more upset because we're essentially saying what we would say to a spouse. That doesn't work because in that moment, they don't need that. They need to be safe and seen. So what are some practical things you give parents in that space to help their kids feel safe and seen in that moment? Like what are a couple of things you do? Just super quickly on the validation part, because it's so important, whether it's with your partner or with your child. When you are saying, I see that you're frustrated right now,
00:26:56
Speaker
I may not understand it.
00:26:57
Speaker
It doesn't matter who you're talking to right now. It could be a spouse or a child. I don't understand it, but I could see you're really frustrated right now. Or not even putting words and like an emotion in the person's mouth, but just saying like, I could see this is really bothering you. Like, I don't understand it. I want to, but like, I see you. There's an aspect of the brain. So there's a part of the brain that's involved. Like, no, the stress system is involved when you're emotional. The reward system is also a big part of this. And I just want people to have an understanding of
00:27:27
Speaker
why we're validating and why we're helping a partner or child feel seen or heard. It's because it triggers that reward system and that feels good to us. And when we feel good, it's another way of deactivating that
00:27:42
Speaker
this regulated brain. When you feel seen and you feel happy and feel good about what's happening, even if you're not happy, you know what? I don't know if that's complicated, but I'm saying like you're frustrated in that moment, but now you got a glimpse of like somebody hearing you and validating your emotions. That reward system kicks in and then you're like, okay, I'm still super mad. But like, thank you. That felt great.
00:28:05
Speaker
Again, it doesn't matter that you're three years old or 30 years old, it just feels good. Because in general, what hormones are being released in that moment? You're saying the reward center. So for those that are still new to this, what chemicals are being released or chemicals are being released when that happens? You're happy chemicals, right? So anything that's making you feel, dopamine, I have to look back into that because dopamine is an anticipation. It's often used as saying like a feel-good hormone, but it's an anticipation of something that, but I think it does come out a little bit in that.
00:28:35
Speaker
anything that makes you feel happy and relieved and rewarded, same thing as a glass of water after a run. You're like, oh, this feels so good. It's the same, it's the ventral tegmental area, the VTA of the brain, and it just activates in those moments. So... I know like some other things like serotonin can happen, oxytocin can be released, and these are kind of these feel-good hormones that could happen when you validate it. Yeah, you're connecting with the person. There's a social aspect to that, and that's all part of emotional intelligence too, like knowing how to...
00:29:04
Speaker
empathize towards somebody. So there's a lot that goes into that. You know, in terms of strategies, also, before I go into that, I just think that parents have to understand what dysregulates themselves. I want to repeat that because the more you can understand what dysregulates you and it happens by taking notes and understanding your environment,
00:29:22
Speaker
The more you can help your child because you'll understand different things that trigger could be, um, you know, different ways of saying something. One of my kids, a tone that I have changes how he's dysregulated.
00:29:34
Speaker
I can raise my voice. I'm not yelling, but I have a deeper tone. Like stop, don't do that. And he completely dysregulates and we lose him for like 20, 30 minutes, not of yelling, but he doesn't speak. He doesn't, he, he disconnects. Um, and just being aware of yourself and your child will help you balance those moments a little bit more because in the moments where they're dysregulated or your partner, you need to co-regulate in a sense, right? You need to kind of.
00:29:59
Speaker
find a way to balance your emotions to support theirs as well, which is really hard. But that's why it's important for you to understand yours. When it comes to emotion regulation strategies, I just want there are adaptive strategies and maladaptive strategies and
Adaptive vs. Maladaptive Strategies
00:30:15
Speaker
Research has shown that these maladaptive strategies do increase the chances of you having mental illness later on. So if a child never learns what to do with sadness, how to sit with it and how to move past it in a healthy way or worry, right? When they're going to be older, they're going to struggle with that and they're going to let the emotions build up. I've been teaching my kids now, they're three, five and seven. I recently started teaching them about what if thoughts and it really connected well with them because
00:30:45
Speaker
I said, one of my kids, the pandemic kind of like impacted them very differently, but the worry about like germs and things around you, one of them was more impacted around that. And I wanted to be aware of that and bring it up in a way where I'm not pointing fingers and saying like, no, this is not right. Like don't think that way. So I brought up what if thoughts. And I said, think of a snowball, right? So we start with a, we have snow here. We, not now, but I said, we start with a very small ball and we roll it and roll it and roll it.
00:31:14
Speaker
and we start to make a really big snowball to make to build a snowman right and as we're building that these are our what if thoughts so imagine one what if thought like what if i don't wash my hands and i get sick that's your first what if thought and if you don't tell me your what if thought if you don't write about it if you don't come to mom
00:31:34
Speaker
and tell me that you had this what-if thought. Sometimes that what-if thought becomes like that snowball. You might say, well, what if? What if I don't wash my hands and I get sick? What if I don't wash my hands and then I make everybody in this house sick? What if? And then the thoughts get bigger and more complicated and scarier. So I said, if you could come to me and tell me in those moments, even if it's the tiniest little smallest what-if thought,
00:32:00
Speaker
then we can talk about it. And when we talk about it, sometimes you realize, well, that doesn't make sense. Can we talk about it and understand if it could be true? What if there's a monster under my bed? What if? Is it possible? But if you tell me, we can say, well, let's look. Or is it possible for that? Do monsters exist? But if you keep it to yourself, that monster will become a huge T-Rex in your room because it's going to snowball into that.
00:32:24
Speaker
So that's my way of dealing with rumination. Rumination is a maladaptive strategy that is the one highlighted the most in research in terms of more likely to have anxiety later on as an adult. So we need to deal with those with kids very young and with ourselves too. If we as adults ruminate a lot, we usually don't sleep as well. Like we have to find ways to get that out and speak to somebody about it.
00:32:52
Speaker
So that's one of the maladaptive ones. And then suppression. Somebody who is always saying, I'm fine. And their body language says something differently and you're like, are you sure you're okay? Do you want to talk about it? I'm good. Like, well, I don't think so. Suppressing our emotions doesn't help anything. We need to communicate our emotions.
00:33:12
Speaker
And it's not weakness. I recently gave a talk here at a school and this dad raised his hand and I was talking about modeling emotions and how important it is for us to model our emotions to our kids and how we use these adaptive strategies, which I'll talk about in a second, and that it's okay to tell our kids that we struggle with regulating ourselves and that we struggle with, you know, a certain emotion and that we're learning just like them.
00:33:39
Speaker
And he raised his hand and said, I don't agree with that. I was like, cool, why not? Let's have a discussion around it. And he said, I'm supposed to be the authoritative figure in their lives. And you were telling me that I'm supposed to show a weakness around emotions to my kids. I don't agree with that. And I said, an emotion doesn't make you weak or strong. An emotion makes you human.
00:34:00
Speaker
That's all you're showing your child. And then you're like, huh, okay. That marked me so much, and I use this example everywhere I go, because I just want parents to hear that, because an emotion isn't about you being strong or weak. An emotion, and especially if we struggle with it, many of us were not given those strategies. Many of us have moved towards these maladaptive strategies. So there's suppression, there's rumination and avoidance.
00:34:26
Speaker
That brings me anger or sadness. Not going there. Nope. Not dealing with it. That's a big guy one. I think the one that a lot of men struggle with is just to avoid. It's because they're threats, right? They're threats. I get that. Most likely that dad probably was told he can't feel or feelings are bad or girl, you know, things that a lot of men are socialized to do, which we've talked about before, is that, yeah, it's a threat. So why would I go there? Like, why would I show him that? Like, that's just his survival brains going into, don't do that. So I'm just going to be rigid and
00:34:52
Speaker
stoic and shut down because that's what I had to do because these are threats and dangerous, right? But it's a maladaptive strategy. Oh, I totally agree. Yes, but somebody who's listening to this, I'm hoping that they understand that these three strategies, whether you are expressing them or modeling them within your home or your child is showing signs of them, this is what I want parents to understand that we want to move away from those. We want to find ways to move towards the adaptive strategies which are
00:35:19
Speaker
reappraisal of the situation child is sad because they lost a soccer game you know you can tell them like buck up just stop crying don't be a baby it's just the game who cares right but that's going to make them either suppress it or avoid i don't want to play soccer anymore i'm done because what are they because what's a kid hearing when the parent says that typically
00:35:38
Speaker
Well, I don't feel seen right now. I don't have any mostly safe space. I'm not, my emotions are not valid enough or I'm, they're hearing so much. They're hearing, they're just not being supported. And you know, somebody asked me in an interview last week, what's the difference? Like if a grandparent is, is raising their grandchild and a big part of this, of their lives, what, what has changed in parenting? And I'm like, well, we still know that they need boundaries and limits because somewhere down the line, this positive parenting word,
00:36:06
Speaker
has led to people thinking that it's just about being their best friend and no limits and boundaries, but they still exist. But what we've learned from research now is that we need to be warm and sensitive towards their emotional needs. And the more we can do that, the more we are creating this emotionally healthy child who can cope with emotions, who can communicate emotions, who can show empathy, who is resilient,
00:36:31
Speaker
every parent wants their child to be resilient because we know life is gonna get tough. But how can they be resilient if they're not experiencing emotional situations and don't have the tools, right? So that's a big thing. Right, if they don't have any practice, right? Right, they have to. If all their practice is to suppress and avoid or whatever, well then they're gonna struggle, you know, flash forward to your five-year-olds now, 35.
00:36:54
Speaker
They're gonna ruminate, it might turn into anxiety disorders or depression disorders or something else because now they've had 30 years of practice of avoidance or suppression because that's what they've been taught, that's what they were shown. So you're right, these maladaptive strategies turn into, and I work with 99% of what I see in my office is this, to some degree. And then I'm working with going back and helping heal the childhood stuff with them and seeing all those things. So that's the maladaptive stuff. And now for a short break.
00:37:24
Speaker
So if you're looking for ways to support the show and my YouTube channel, head on over to buymeacoffee.com forward slash therapy for dads. There you can make a one time donation or join the monthly subscription service to support all that I'm doing at the intersection of fatherhood and mental health.
00:37:40
Speaker
And all the proceeds go right back into all the work that I'm doing into production and to continue to grow the show to bring on new guests. So again, head on over to buy me a coffee.com forward slash therapy for dads. Thanks. And let's get back to the show. What are some of the adaptive strategies, which you talked about. So what are those? Can we, can we kind of lay those out a bit?
00:38:01
Speaker
So there's that reappraisal one. So if your child does lose a soccer game, it's kind of saying, I see that it upsets you and I totally get it. You lost your game, but maybe we can practice your shots, your goal shots, or maybe we can practice your passes or I saw that your team was missing. I don't know. The defender was struggling a little bit. Maybe at the next practice, you guys can practice that specific technique or something, right? Like giving them a way to reappraise the situation and kind of reassess.
00:38:26
Speaker
That from an emotional standpoint or you know you lost the game before it's okay It's part of the game like just having that conversation with them of reappraising it and giving them those skills in that vocabulary They will not have that vocabulary as young kids and and honestly most of us don't have that vocabulary either as adults We struggle with reassessing because part of that is also you know the compassion part like you know
00:38:51
Speaker
I tried my best well okay then maybe next game will be a little bit easier versus I suck why do I suck I miss that game you know like I should have gotten that goal and I didn't I'm the worst player in the world so there's there's a whole mental aspect to that so the reappraisal one
00:39:06
Speaker
problem solving comes into, so there are three reappraisal problem solving and acceptance. So problem solving and re-appraisal are kind of similar. So it's just about like, okay, what can I do differently? Problem solving just adds that extra layer of, I know going to that, I don't know, I'm thinking as an adult, like going to a specific family member's house is going to cause me a lot of trouble because they judge my parenting.
00:39:26
Speaker
The question is like, so how do I stay regulated? Yes. In the green if I can, if I'm at this place. Yes. Okay. Or what's my game plan, right? What's my game plan? Problem solving is thinking ahead of a certain situation. Whereas reappraisal, the situation happened and now you're reassessing the emotional valence or how bad is it, right? So again, a parent plays a significant role because they are acting as the prefrontal cortex for kids. They're doing the rational thinking for the child so that one day the child will be older
Impact of Parenting Styles
00:39:55
Speaker
You know fail an exam at school and they're not going to have that negative self-talk. They're they're gonna say like why tried my best you know, I'll have no choice but to like study a little bit more next time or You know, there are worse things in life something they will have some sort of discussion with themselves the second one the last one the third one is acceptance and
00:40:14
Speaker
That's where mindfulness comes in and that's where self-compassion plays a really big part in this. So that means in order for a child to accept certain situations, they have to be mindful and they have to be acceptance. They have to be self-compassionate, which means they have to have seen their parent do that. That's why I always tell parents you need to start with yourself.
00:40:32
Speaker
Right? Because we're the model, right? If we're not doing it, the likelihood of our kids doing it successfully drastically decreases. Not to say they can't learn it, I mean, because there's other ways that they can learn, but the percentage-wise, right? Do you think it's an accurate statement to say? Yeah. You know, since we're the most of the model, if we can't do it, they're going to pick up what we do, and it's going to be harder for them to get to that place of regulation.
00:40:56
Speaker
We play an extremely big part. There's something called the tripartite model of parental socialization in research. And that specific model states that three aspects of a child's environment will shape how they regulate emotions.
00:41:11
Speaker
We're part of all three. So the first one is how we model our emotional regulation and, and, and in the home and with their child. Um, the second one is our parenting style. The reason why parenting style is very important is because of what I said before, where we know now we have to balance boundaries with emotional warmth and sensitivity towards their emotions. So sure, we could be modeling everything we want, but then they cry and we're like, saw being a baby, right? So there there's the modeling, there's the parenting style and how we cope with their emotions.
00:41:39
Speaker
And then the third one is really hard for a lot of parents to hear, but how we regulate our emotions with our partner in the home. And that's really hard, especially during the pandemic, because we were all dysregulated for two and a half, three years. It was really hard for us to get out of that stressed feeling, and everybody's been dysregulated.
00:42:02
Speaker
we perhaps weren't dealing with emotions the same way with our partners. We perhaps were not, you know, we're yelling more or saying things we regret. And I just, if, you know, parents are listening to this and saying like, oof, maybe that home wasn't exactly what they needed, just know that there's always a way, the repair part that you mentioned before, it's never too late to have a conversation with the child and say, you know, I haven't been at my best when it comes to emotions, but I want to work on that. You want to try to do it with me?
00:42:28
Speaker
Like my daughter, she's seven now and she writes a journal with me and we write about, we write gratitude journals together and hers are a little bit different. You know, it could be a drawing or a word, but I just wanted to see that. Like sometimes we finish our day and we say like, Oh, nothing big happened. I didn't get a promotion here or I didn't, you know, get an investment here or there. But sometimes you say like, wow, that hug you gave me earlier was a really good hug. I'm going to write about that in my journal. And I'm just trying to get her to practice these things. So,
00:42:55
Speaker
There are lots of ways that we can model this for our children, and yes, it plays a big part, especially when it comes around acceptance. Even if it's our inner voice where we're being hard on ourselves or we're not being mindful, it comes out as our behavior, right? That's emotion regulation, so the internal and the external. So we have to really be mindful in that moment. Again, it's another term that we're hearing a lot of,
00:43:19
Speaker
What does it mean to be mindful in that
Mindful Parenting
00:43:21
Speaker
moment? Well, are you able to pause and it's almost like your child says something or spills that milk, that milk. Can you pause and really say like, this is not the end of the world. This is not my fault. That's the self compassion piece. I, you know, I, whatever language you want to have with yourself, but just knowing that like,
00:43:40
Speaker
It's not all on you and that there's a bigger world out there with other people struggling with similar things as you realizing because sometimes we say like, God, this only happens to me. Um, your child won't put their shoes on to go to daycare in the morning and they're young and they're having meltdowns and
00:43:53
Speaker
big emotions around it and you're like, oh, this is only me. Like, why me? Like, why did I, I'm late for work. It's always me. But if you really, the self compassion piece opens it up to the world and says like, it's not easy to struggle with this, but you know, it's, it's another day and I'm not the only one. I think that helps a lot. So verbalizing all these things to your kids helps model it.
00:44:13
Speaker
And a couple of quick questions as I'm looking conscious at the time as we start to wrap up. I think you could probably answer these quite quickly. And I think they're very relevant. But with the understanding of the brain is can we do this work, whether with ourselves or with our children, can we do it in a hurry? If my expectation is that if we're coming out the door, my kids tantruming, am I having a difficult problem, that I'm able to kind of just move, like rush meaning the expectation is to be able to like a light switch to move on.
00:44:43
Speaker
Is that necessarily how the brain is always going to work for us? I have two answers. The first one is no. The second one is yes. No, I love that. I love that. I think it's good. Tell me more about the yes. Yeah. So no, you can't do it that quickly because there's a lot of work that has to happen before you can actually turn that quickly. So that's why no is first is my answer. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. And then yes, because
00:45:06
Speaker
actually the word that I just said, I've been helping parents kind of switch out of certain things a little bit more quickly by using the word because. So it's weird as a word, but the reason why I'm doing this is, so let's say your partner says something to you and you feel that it's really out of line and super rude or whatever it is, you can say like,
00:45:27
Speaker
How can you talk to me that way? So react, you're reacting quickly. Or you could respond and take a pause and say like, I remember they had a deadline today or they had a really big meeting today. And say again, it doesn't mean that you have to accept what happened, but you can say that was rude. Are you okay? Like did something happen today? Do you need to talk about anything? Do you need a moment? Right? So there's, there's, you're going to change how you're responding. And the reason why they change what they're responding is because in their mind they're saying, my partner said that to me because they're stressed.
00:45:55
Speaker
or my child hit their sibling because they didn't have the words to express that they don't want to share their toy or because they're dysregulated right now, it's bedtime and they're tired and I'm late on my schedule. When we start adding the word because after somebody's behavior, so the external part, we start to understand and feel a bit more compassionate for the internal part, right? So you snapped at me because you're tired and you didn't sleep last night.
00:46:20
Speaker
there's a very big difference with just saying, you snapped at me, how dare you? I'm saying because here's the underlying reason. So that's sort of what you were saying at the beginning, right? Like what is it communicating? And if we just say, if we just state the behavior and say, you did this and you said this and my child did this and behave that way without saying because we're never going to bring in that internal piece and we'll never understand both parts of emotional regulation, which are the behavior, external and the internal, the feeling.
00:46:46
Speaker
Yeah, and I think, I love that because it really does, it enables us to open the door to explore and be curious about what's really behind this, what's fueling this behavior or emotion or whatever, to kind of take a moment, a pause, to go deeper.
00:47:05
Speaker
And I think you answered it yes and no with, can you do it in a hurry? Because really, if you're hurried, meaning if you're rushed, right, you won't be able to get there. Because if you're so stuck on your stuff, you're gonna be dysregulated. Because hurry is like that anxious state, like, I gotta get done, I gotta get done. Which actually, what we're advocating here, what you're saying with the brain is, no, if we're stuck there, we're gonna continue to be dysregulated.
00:47:25
Speaker
So we might be able to get more effective and skilled at turning, right, because we know how to get there. So we'll be better able to navigate more quickly from these states because we could understand because we are curious about the underlying, you know, the underlying need that might be not being mad or skill. And so we can speak to that.
00:47:45
Speaker
Have our kid feel seen and heard or our partner ourselves because and that does help us more quickly adapt, right? But sometimes it doesn't right? I mean, can you quickly speak to that sometimes even if you do all the right stuff? Does it do we always just kind of snap and come back to a place of regulation?
00:48:02
Speaker
No, sometimes we can't. And that, you know, I want parents to know that it's okay. I yell sometimes. I lose it. I become dysregulated sometimes. And you're going to have moments when you do, and that's okay. But if somebody is listening and saying, like, I lose my cool like three times a day, five times a day, I think there's a way for you to bring it down to like once a day or five times a week or three times a week. I think there's lots of work that you can do that will bring you to that.
00:48:27
Speaker
And and using that word because I bring that up because because you can it just in those moments when you're completely Disregulated it switches you to compassion and just understanding that curiosity
Emotional Regulation as a Skill
00:48:38
Speaker
piece. So if your system is dysregulated There's isn't a very quick way to snap out of it It's gonna take time for you to come back down that mountain again it might be you have you might have to take a walk or you know, you might have to
00:48:53
Speaker
I don't know. Just be alone for a moment or have a coffee alone. They step away. It's whatever it is or speak to a friend, right? Like feel connected and feel seen. There was a therapist I spoke with from the UK and she places items that make her feel connected throughout her home. So if she's in the kitchen and she's having a moment of dysregulation, she'll open, let's say a drawer that has like a significant item to her, let's say from her honeymoon or wherever it was and not know her desk. There's a picture of her and her friend.
00:49:18
Speaker
find ways to regulate yourself throughout your home. You know, like sometimes I light a little candle, a scent and candle. The kids are like, Oh, why are you doing that? It's for me. It's just so I can connect myself and feel that this is a self-love moment. But in that really heated moment, give it time and it's okay. It doesn't mean that you're not normal or that there's something wrong with you. Just, just give it time. You know, it's,
00:49:39
Speaker
They're called emotion regulation skills. They are skills. And that means it takes time. Same way that if you start going to the gym tomorrow, you won't have, you know, you won't have like big muscles or like you won't reach your goals by tomorrow. You need time. Same thing for the brain. It needs time. It needs repetition and it needs repetition. It just needs you to do it over and over again and to give yourself grace to make those mistakes and you'll get there.
00:50:07
Speaker
Yeah, and I ask that question only because I hear a lot of that with parents. I think sometimes we get stuck in the expectation that then just because they're regulated, everything's going to come back and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it takes a while and that's okay. It doesn't mean that the skill isn't effective. It doesn't mean that just like the gym, sometimes you work out the gym and sometimes it feels kind of eh. It doesn't mean that it still wasn't helpful or just eating healthy. You don't always notice something immediately. It's not always like, oh, there it is.
00:50:37
Speaker
But we do it because it's that practice and repetition that we're building the skill and what the skills require, requires practice. And so sometimes it's not always going to be this neatly perfect wrapped bow that everyone's back to green and we're all everyone's, you know, sometimes we're just maybe keeping us that yellow, not getting worse, right? Maybe it's keeping that yellows and we're not going to red.
00:50:56
Speaker
right because which is okay yeah maybe take a step down from red to yellow or maybe right it's it's kind of depending on what we need for the day yeah or like you said earlier going back to earlier in the beginning the podcast it's like sometimes you wake up the next day and you're still
00:51:12
Speaker
struggling because there's still something that hasn't been met, maybe a need that's still left unseen. And so it's kind of realizing that while these skills, these are helpful, understanding our brain and dysregulation, working toward regulation and calm, that these are skills and it's not a magic light that just clicks on all the time. Sometimes it does and it's amazing and it's like, you see it and it's like, wow, at the times it's subtle, right? It's kind of a subtlety. And sometimes, and I'm thinking of this with some, really all my kids, but
00:51:41
Speaker
when you put in the work with some of these skills, and really it's daily, hourly, sometimes minutely, depending on what's going on. And then all of a sudden, they do the very thing that you've been practicing. And as a parent, you're just like, oh.
00:51:57
Speaker
Like, there it is. They're doing the very thing that I've been, and you said this earlier, working with them, I've been their prefrontal
Supporting Children's Emotional Development
00:52:07
Speaker
cortex. I've been that regulated state to help guide them to build that kind of bridge.
00:52:12
Speaker
because theirs is still under developed so I've been that with them so many times like hours and like hundreds of times and all of a sudden boom there it is and it's just that feels so good as a parent and I'm thinking of some of my kid that you know he didn't yell at his brother and throw something he just said he was able to communicate to his brother
00:52:33
Speaker
you know, I don't like that. That is such a, yeah, that's a good one. And it's, and I remember going in there, I'm like, I remember walking, kind of running in happily, like, buddy, way to go, like, and praised that. Yeah. I'm like, you, you said what you needed. You didn't, you know, you didn't throw, you communicated exactly what you needed. And he lit up, cause it's like, you praised, it's like a victory. It's like he won the game, right? It is. Now, the next day, you know, he did, you know, he, you know, yelled and something, but,
00:53:03
Speaker
I don't then say, well, you learned it yesterday. You know, it's like, no, it's, it's reinforcing because it's a new, it's a new game. Right. And he's getting better at it, but he still needs our help. Right. And I think, you know, you would, would you say with brain development, just to kind of wrap this up of that, even when our kid gets it right at times, it doesn't mean that we still, we just step back and expect they'll get this a hundred percent of the time.
00:53:26
Speaker
no because every emotional event will have different like factors to it right so it could be the same situation but with a cousin and he won't respond the same way because maybe it's not as an emotionally safe space with that cousin and maybe the cousin said something a little different so you're always going to be guiding your kids always and i think we have to move away from that sort of
00:53:46
Speaker
success and we're done and step back kind of thing right like it's not like that with emotions scientists still don't understand emotions it's complicated it's so complicated like we're starting to really scratch the surface around emotions and the brain because they're so super complicated like it's it's really so same thing for us humans you know like our kids we will continue to support them the same way that we have to continue to support ourselves and our emotions and our partners with their emotions i tell my kids
00:54:14
Speaker
you always have to tell me how you feel and what you're thinking. Because if you don't, I can't help you. And my partner and I now, we started saying that to ourselves to remind ourselves, if you don't tell me what you're thinking and what you're feeling, I can't help you. And I will always be here to help you. And that is my goal, whether it's my partner or my kids or a friend, I want to be there for them. But if you don't express what you need, then we can't be there for you.
00:54:44
Speaker
The people that love you are there for you for those reasons and yeah, it's what encouragement, you know Like I'm here and we're working as a unit to learn to express our needs and to share Even when it's messy but to be there for each other so we can we can support them that we can kind of fill that gap and Where can we where we find you if people want to get some more support or help in this space? Like what where can we find you?
Resources and Further Support
00:55:08
Speaker
Yeah, you can head on to curiousneuron.com, which is the website, and we have blogs there written by graduate students who are summarizing research studies that parents could just read the summary on our website or click on the link and read the entire study if they want to. I have the podcast, Curious Neuron Podcast, as well. There's an academy where we have PDFs or small webinars that they can just get, again, one topic and all the summary, all the research around that.
00:55:35
Speaker
Um, and I also have the wonder grade app, um, that they can download and try it out for free for two weeks. Um, and on curious neuro on an Instagram, they can look up a curious underscore neuron or wonder grade.
00:55:47
Speaker
and I will link those listening everything for Cindy's resources will be on the description clickable you click on the podcast or if you're watching this on YouTube it'll also be in the description just click on that for more and there'll be hyperlinks to all these things whether on Apple Spotify or on YouTube easily to find it that we have to remember this but it's in there so it's at the bottom and
00:56:10
Speaker
Cindy, thank you so much. And I know that there's so much more we can unpack, but I think this really was a great overview of better understanding of dysregulation inside and out, some basic, really helpful skills to understand how we can help our kids adaptively as well as working through and changing those maladaptive ways. And really the encouragement for parents is, you know, it's practice. And we all need these skills. We all have emotions, whether you're 95 or five, we all have it. So it's no different.
00:56:40
Speaker
And we, our job as parents, I would say is we are part of helping building that scaffolding in every kid's brains and we can really help them develop these skills more effectively and quickly. So thank you so much for your time and have an excellent, excellent rest of your day. Thank you, Travis. Thanks for joining and listening today. Please leave a comment and review the show. Dads are tough, but not tough enough to do this fatherhood thing alone.