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S3, E2 The Career Coven: Burnout
51 Plays7 days ago
In episode 2 of season 3, we cover the long awaited topic of burnout. This is potentially Annie’s favourite thing to talk about, as she considers herself often close to a burnout episode (and this is not a point of pride).
This episode covers:
- The 3 dimensions of burnout
- The “double shift” that women do at work, and at home
- Annie’s personal experience of burnout
- How burnout changes your brain, and how your brain recovers
- The importance of social connections in the recovery from burnout
- How to prevent burnout
- When burnout means you should leave your job
Also learn about Annie’s hen-do, Bec’s view on sound baths and whether she will step into a renovation project or not.
Enjoying this content? Please rate and subscribe on your preferred platform, and let us know what you think!
Recommendations from this episode:
- Christina Maslach, The Maslach Burnout Inventory – emotional exhaustion, depersonalization, and reduced personal accomplishment.
- Arianna Huffington, Advocates for microsteps in her work at Thrive Global to counter burnout.
- McKinsey & LeanIn.Org, Women in the Workplace 2023
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'The Career Coven' and Episode Focus
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to The Career Coven, the podcast for serious careers with unserious chat. I'm Bec, a coach, corporate citizen and recovering perfectionist.
00:00:17
Speaker
And I'm Annie, workaholic, learning boundaries. And each episode, we unpack career challenges and workplace wisdom through honest conversations, practical tools, and a healthy dose of real talk.
00:00:29
Speaker
So you can thrive on your own terms.
Personal Experiences and Understanding Burnout
00:00:31
Speaker
Let's get into today's episode, which is about one of my favorite topics, Bec. Burnout. We've all been there. Have we not all been there?
00:00:41
Speaker
Have we all been there? think we've all been Maybe we've all, i I've been there and you've been there. I don't know if everyone's been there. Do you actually know any women in particular that you would say haven't been there, that you were like, they've never been burnt out?
00:00:58
Speaker
I think the people, i think burnout is used as almost like a sort of throwaway, like I'm feeling so burnt out. Have I seen people have a full burnout mental breakdown, I'd say people I know intimately would disclose that to me and probably everyone else hides it.
00:01:18
Speaker
That's what I say. Yeah. That's sort of part of burnout. Maybe we should just get into it. Let's get into it. Should we start just with a quick water cooler?
Personal Updates and Life Changes
00:01:27
Speaker
What's going on in your life this week?
00:01:29
Speaker
ah Yeah, this week, another day, another week. Yeah, I don't have much to say on my week. Like, to be honest, not much I can share on a week.
00:01:42
Speaker
I would say it's a mixed week. Am I feeling productive? Yes. Have I productively produced the outputs I would want for myself? No. Are there challenges at work?
00:01:53
Speaker
Always. um But personally, things are really good and absolutely fine. So what about you? mean, you've missed the most important one since we last recorded. We had your hen do. Yeah.
00:02:05
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Honestly, the best day, like better than the wedding day. One of the best days of my life. I think the best bit was um your absolute surprise when we went to the painting place and Susan arrived and you took home 12 portraits of Susan.
00:02:24
Speaker
I am actually going to put those portraits up tonight to give Anders a birthday surprise of a wall of Susan. That's what I'm going to do this evening. But yes, that was honestly, I can i i don't i haven't had a better day of my moment in my life than when she was led in in her little veil.
00:02:43
Speaker
i was like this is that this is like, this is actually the best moment of maybe my entire life. So they did well. The planners did very, very well. It was a glorious, glorious day.
00:02:54
Speaker
It was lovely. As you know, I am on week 5002 of MatLeaf. um Since we last recorded, I've done some keep in touch days, which I really enjoyed. And um trying to debate with my partner, whether we buy renovation project as our family home, which, as we've discussed, is sort of a psychotic thing to do with a newborn baby.
00:03:21
Speaker
but Could be really fun. I vote yes.
00:03:27
Speaker
ah good stuff Okay.
Defining Burnout and Its Dimensions
00:03:28
Speaker
So today our topic is burnout. On the agenda, we have talking about its definition, what actually changes in your brain and can you fully recover from it?
00:03:38
Speaker
Some gender dimensions of burnout, recovery and prevention strategies, when burnout means it's time to leave and sustainable work-life boundaries. I full disclosure have not had as much time to prepare for this episode but I see that you have Annie so we will be learning a lot from you today.
00:03:57
Speaker
Great I mean i I am a burnout queen. I am a burnout expert. I personally me consistently burnt out and I really enjoyed learning more about it. I mean I'm not consistently burnt out but I'm a regular on the edge of burnout, I would say.
00:04:18
Speaker
And yeah, I i did, i did, ah enjoyed doing some research into like, I think we use the word burnout to cover a lot of, a lot of terms. It's become a very like colloquial like phrase that people use to like really just talk about a whole range of emotions.
00:04:37
Speaker
But when I was actually reading the definitions of burnout, what you know so psychiatrists and psychologists define burnout as I was like yes the time that I was truly burnt out all of these things were so true but do I feel like that these are true now luckily for me no I don't think I'm like fully burnt out now I think I just like enjoy teetering on the edge throughout life of a complete mental breakdown not Not today.
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah, not today. Not today, but could be could be soon. Who knows? Could be soon. I think most most of the things I was reading talked about it being like both emotional, physical and mental exhaustion being from...
Gender-Specific Burnout and Stories
00:05:19
Speaker
like excessive stress and obviously most most people do talk about it I think in terms of work like professional work but there's obviously your other types of work caregiving family pressures and they sort of all come together to to produce a state of of burnout so it is a mixture of like lots of different factors coming into it but yeah all of those certainly resonated with me.
00:05:44
Speaker
And I noticed we had both taken the same note around this, particularly coming onto the gender dimension, that that double shift is quite often a women in the workplace burnout where you get home and you have your other mental load of other things. i was thinking about it, like last night I was trying to go to sleep in bed and Tom's like, why aren't you going to sleep? And I was like, because I'm thinking about different types of mattresses for Robin. And he's like, oh my God, stop your busy brain. And i was like,
00:06:13
Speaker
Yeah. Someone's got to think about it. So yeah. And I can't like not being a parent myself. It's like, I actually can't imagine that right now because it's almost like,
00:06:28
Speaker
When I had burnout, it was it for me, it was it was actually both a very tough personal situation and very tough professional situation combining for an extended period of time. I would say like nine to 12 months of just...
00:06:46
Speaker
undue agony in both dimensions but I didn't have that like frankly I wasn't caring for anyone else but but me I was it was just me trying to figure stuff out so the extraordinary load of having tiny helpless infants or grown up not helpless children is like Yeah, it's almost too much to imagine from my perspective, having having been burnt out. But I think it's also, you know, as you say, it's it's ah it's a common reason why women do experience burnout more than men. I mean, most of the literature I read that that was talked about as a fact is that women do disproportionately get affected by burnout. And that dual care burden is a big part of that.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yes, totally agree. Do you want to talk the listeners through your experience of burnout? How do you want to do this today? can't. I mean, I can. I can't. It's up to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07:44
Speaker
I mean, as I said, like for me, it wasn't just work. I think everyone that knows me knows that i have a sort of pathological approach to work and there's not...
00:07:56
Speaker
incredibly productive at all times. But it actually like was not just work. I think it was the fact that i really, in my home life and my work, I felt like I was kind of constantly fighting on like all fronts and everything like day to day just felt totally relentless. Like I couldn't get away from it.
00:08:18
Speaker
And obviously I didn't just drop straight into burnout when things got bad. It was definitely like, oh, for the first like three to six months, I was like, whew. Like, this is a lot. oh I'm not having a nice time.
00:08:30
Speaker
But then it got to like, oh my God, you know, i wake up every day. i can't sleep properly. i can't get away from these feelings of like complete overwhelm.
00:08:42
Speaker
And then eventually, i think after probably, you know, nine months of like very intense stress, maybe 9 to 12 months, like literally over a two-week period, the the thing that...
00:09:01
Speaker
felt different to every every other time that I've been like stressed or busy was like I suddenly lost like all my confidence in myself like literally it just fell off a cliff and it was really difficult because that was during a time where I was fundraising like a time where you actually need the most confidence in yourself professionally and and It wasn't because of the fundraising. It wasn't because I experienced anything bad. It was just suddenly it just happened.
00:09:32
Speaker
And I just didn't believe I could just do it anymore. And um yeah, one of the psychologists I was reading about was um
Physiological Effects of Burnout on the Brain
00:09:41
Speaker
like a professor called Laurie Santos, who said there's like three different phases of burnout.
00:09:46
Speaker
The first is emotional exhaustion. or you feel really worn out and drained and like even a good night's sleep doesn't help. So I definitely had that for for a while. um The second phase is like depersonalization or cynicism. Like I definitely, I know that one of the things when I'm like approaching burnout is that i start to not be able to connect with my friends. And I feel almost like I'm,
00:10:08
Speaker
a third person watching a conversation rather than in the conversation myself. And like, that is now a bit of a warning sign that I'm like, oh, it's more than just like being a bit tired. And then yeah, the final feature is like, this reduced sense of personal accomplishment.
00:10:24
Speaker
And you start to think like everything you're doing is ineffective, you can't do things, it doesn't matter. and I'd never had that before as someone with like really high agency, I'd never been like, whatever I do,
00:10:38
Speaker
I can't change this. I've never had that feeling. And it came on so suddenly. And honestly, it was then really, really fast. It's just like, i ah I hit like the big red button on my life and I just stopped like everything within like a space of kind of tutor two to four weeks.
00:10:55
Speaker
And so I think that I didn't know that there were like these defined three phases. But then when I was reading about it this week, I was like, whoa, that is like me through and through. that was exactly what I experienced. And, you know, I just felt, yeah, unrelenting exhaustion, completely detached. And ultimately, yeah like i wasn't able to any longer achieve any of the goals I'd set for myself. So I might as well give up.
00:11:23
Speaker
Rough. Rough. But you know, here I am. Didn't give up. absolutely fine. That was one of the periods in your life, one of many, where I bought you the same book. Yeah, where you bought me that fucking book.
00:11:34
Speaker
Design your life. It's really good. And it is. And I'll design it one day. But you know, it's good to see you out the other side of that period,
Recovery from Burnout: Strategies and Experiences
00:11:44
Speaker
of course.
00:11:44
Speaker
There are some really interesting stuff on... what happens to your brain and your body during burnout. i I know we have mentioned this on the podcast before.
00:11:55
Speaker
Last time I mentioned it, I hadn't read the book. I have now read the book, The Body Keeps the Score. Yes. And that is a pretty sort of damning rap report on the impact that prolonged stress and trauma has on the body and the brain. So what's going on physiologically and in this period?
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, that book. i found that book. so depressing yeah because I was like, well, I'm reading this retrospectively. I've had all of that.
00:12:27
Speaker
What do I do? um Anyway, yeah, so I think they've actually they actually do think there are quite a lot of changes physiologically that happen to your brain ah during prolonged prolonged periods of stress.
00:12:40
Speaker
So one is that an area of your brain called the prefrontal cortex, the gray matter there thins. And what that can affect is your ability to like pay attention, be present and like make and retain memories.
00:12:57
Speaker
So that's one thing that typically we'll get will get harder for you. But that's actually because there is a part of your brain that is thinning due to the impact of like stress. Another part of the brain that changes is the amygdala.
00:13:11
Speaker
And this is unsurprisingly the part of the brain that is responsible for your fight or flight response. And you're constantly in a state of obviously fight if you're really, really stressed for a long time. And that means you start to kind of feel like the world is is against you and and it's really, really overwhelming.
00:13:30
Speaker
And yeah, you can start to see things as harmful and react to them as stressors even when they're not. And I guess that could manifest in like a slight form of sort of like paranoia as of as well.
00:13:42
Speaker
And I certainly like, yeah, I certainly did start to feel like the the world was um the world was against me for sure. Or more like I just couldn't catch a fucking break.
00:13:52
Speaker
you know i mean? I was like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's it's like, um ah this was in a book um that I read ages ago from Alan DeBotton, but it's basically like when you hear the sound of um like its like a jackhammer on the street.
00:14:10
Speaker
It's like believing that noise is there specifically to annoy you. ah Yeah, yeah. Rather than it just going off in the background, you're like, oh my God, this is the worst day ever because the jackhammer is literally in my brain. The memory thing is so interesting. It made me think about the work that I did during um crisis response in COVID. And I can actually remember very little of that period of time at work. Like someone will mention something to me and I'll be like, I literally don't even remember this whole part of work that I completed.
00:14:41
Speaker
ah For me, I think it the the bit that you said around sleep is a big thing. big flag for me. if i I know that if I'm waking up in the night and struggling to go back to sleep, that for me is my first sign that something is has gone adrift in and my brain.
00:15:00
Speaker
So, you have obviously recovered from this big period of burnout. What did you do? How did you do that? Well, it's interesting because um i let see I actually don't i don't know if I would say that i have like fully recovered.
00:15:17
Speaker
So it definitely is very clear in the literature that they think that your brain can recover. So yeah like, you know, you can do things that help reduce your stress levels and doing that consistently for a prolonged period can help these brain changes like go back. So their brain is very plastic and like,
00:15:38
Speaker
it can change and respond throughout your life. To answer your specific question with me, well, I took like a long, I took like a long extended break to recover. And um during that time,
00:15:51
Speaker
I did honestly just feel like I would never be the same again. And, you know, it was very, it was very focused on like no work, you know, went to Argentina, like tried to get out of, you know, the COVID type environment, London really changed basically everything and in my life.
00:16:10
Speaker
I did, I guess, focus a bit on sleep, but to be honest, like the thing I changed that was most extreme was just, I didn't work for a, for a long time. And i when I then came back to work, one thing I did, I do think I did well is that I worked part time for nine months.
00:16:27
Speaker
And that was amazing. really, really good for me because I was someone who'd struggled with boundaries and it helped me, being a freelancer helped me like establish boundaries that, and that meant that I could probably continue to recover after I'd got back to London, after I was like dipping my toe back into normal life, but like still have at least two days a week where I was like resting, not working, you know, reading, like doing kind of slightly more chill.
00:16:56
Speaker
chilled out things but yeah do I would I say I'm like a an exp expert on the art of like burnout recovery absolutely not like I didn't take a structured approach to recovering and I have seen other people do that really really effectively it's like you start meditating you do this with your diet you are asleep by 10 every night but for four, six months or something. Like I think that that can work for some people and maybe it would work for me, but it's just not, I'm just not that disciplined.
00:17:30
Speaker
So I would say I just, I took out what I perceived at that time to be the main stressor that was work. And then I like gradually ease myself back into it. And I was like privileged that i could work in that way and like allow myself to recover.
00:17:46
Speaker
And then I got a coach for when I did go back into full-time work to help me adjust that. And all of those things I think were like really integral to my recovery from burnout. But what I was reading that they recommend if you are going to take a structured approach is more like obviously sleep is massive you need more sleep if you want your brain to like you know, get back to normal. So like eight to nine hours eating anti-inflammatory foods, you know, like making sure you have a really healthy diet, making sure you get enough omega-3, which is really, really important for brain health and magnesium as well.
00:18:25
Speaker
Mindfulness and breath work. Like, fuck me. I wish I could do breath work. I just like, I can like barely breathe. Someone, one of my colleagues once said I was like an epiglottal baby, which now you probably know is like babies breathe in a certain way.
00:18:38
Speaker
didn't know this. Yeah, apparently they don't have like their epiglottis, which is part of their breathing. I don't know. It's not developed. So they breathe like a little like, like kind of, and and apparently that's how how I breathe, and which I'm sure is not great.
00:18:53
Speaker
But obviously like really stress management techniques are obviously really useful if you want your brain to recover. Exercise, I guess I, this is something that I definitely did do a lot of.
00:19:04
Speaker
And then you can do like trauma therapy, somatic therapy, different types of CBT. um And the other thing which was really consistent, I don't know if it was consistent in everything you read, but it was definitely in mine, was like actually connecting with other people and making sure that you...
00:19:22
Speaker
do creative and fun activities that are good for you and that like don't just involve kind of drinking and that you like as part of your recovery deliberately connect with your social network so you don't feel isolated So that was, those are the things they recommend to like fully recover from burnout.
00:19:42
Speaker
I think burnout is different for everyone and you need to do these things. You need to do the things that you can fit into your life. And so it's not just a like tick list of all of these things will help you. I think it has to be the things that kind of fit in with the lifestyle you have and the commitments you have.
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, i I would agree with that. But I think like there's also, i think it's helpful for people to go a bit further than they would just organically because they've organically got themselves into a position of burnout. And so, you know, the point that you raise on um drinking is really interesting, right? Like drinking neg mike really seriously impacts your sleep and then that will knock in. So whilst a lot of people have drinks to decompress, I, you know, am someone who does that, you know, having a whole bottle of wine before bed, probably not great
00:20:32
Speaker
But yeah, I think also like i before my period of burnout, which is nowhere near as bad as yours, but I wouldn't have naturally been like, I'm going to go exercise. I am a late bloomer to exercise, but actually now I just exercise basically for my head and yeah my body comes along for the ride. Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:55
Speaker
And that's actually, i wouldn't have done that, I don't think, unless I felt like I really needed to. And endorphins are great, it turns out. Yeah. Yeah, I'm the same. I don't really exercise for my body. I exc exercise for my brain.
00:21:09
Speaker
Yeah. and And I also think your point around connection is really important and and just like play more generally and just fun, things that you do for joy. Yeah. When you're when you're in this state, it's like quite easy to just deprioritize activities that you know feel joyful. And I know we've spoken on the podcast before about this, but just like having a list of things that you know that you enjoy on your iPhone notes so that you can just refer to without thinking about it and be like, oh,
00:21:39
Speaker
And like, for me, i really like going to a sound bath. Some people hate sound baths. I've made you come to a sound bath. I was fine, but I'm not the biggest fan. It's also like quite introducing people to sound baths is like a sort of make or break moment in friendships. And like one of my one of my old bosses, I took her to a sound bath and I didn't know that they were also going to be doing like bird noises and flapping feathers in there. And you're like, oh, this is much more woo-woo than I had intended it to be. But, you know,
00:22:14
Speaker
ah For me, I like sound bath is a better replacement of meditation because I can't sit and meditate. i don't have I don't have the discipline. me neither. Or the patience for that.
00:22:25
Speaker
But a sound bath is basically sort of like a guided meditation, sort of like a nap, but like it feels quite nice.
00:22:34
Speaker
are So we've spoken about recovery.
Preventing Burnout: Lifestyle Changes and Boundaries
00:22:41
Speaker
What about prevention? Like, has anything change to help you prevent burnout now that you o ah sort of on the other side of the big period of burnout?
00:22:53
Speaker
the Might be a better one for you. no um No, I am better at setting boundaries. I think setting boundaries is a big one, right? Like that's the that's how you prevent yourself from being overcommitted and ultimately therefore very stressed.
00:23:09
Speaker
For me, that is something I constantly have to learn have i i have still not mastered the art of boundaries um however what i do think is um to your point about sleep like i am now much more aware of the things that signal that ah it's maybe more than just like i'm a little bit tired this week so i definitely am not like little miss positive polly by any stretch of the imagination. Surely not.
00:23:43
Speaker
What? But i when I like lose the sense to have any of of having any optimism, like particularly at work, it's like if I can't show optimism, that is a very bad sign. And I think like I've you know i noticed that recently and I really had to like check myself and be like, okay, you need a couple of days off.
00:24:09
Speaker
you need to go for a long weekend or do something different because you are now starting to just feel that everything here isn is negative. And I think it is, you know, in that definition part, is that a little bit feeling like, oh, everything is just really against me. Like, why can't I just fucking catch a break?
00:24:26
Speaker
So, um, I think I'm better at spotting when I'm starting to get a bit negative and then taking more breaks and more rest. I may be a bit more structured about um my lifestyle, but not massively. But what I don't do is like, I don't, I don't really drink anywhere near as much as I used to And I think that is part of, for me, like,
00:24:52
Speaker
keeping my brain and my sleep like as regular as I can can get it. Obviously, you know, we did say at the start of this that we are on the back of my hen do where I did form it at the end of the night. So I'm not proud.
00:25:06
Speaker
Yeah, it was absolutely disgusting amounts of tequila. So it's not like I'm a saint, but I i don't drink on really weak days very much at all. And yeah, i I just try and limit alcohol as part of my burnout prevention.
00:25:22
Speaker
Yeah. i think that's I think it's also just my relationship with alcohol really changed during and sort of post-pandemic. I feel like that the hangovers hit worse, the anxiety hits double, um it becomes much less worth it.
00:25:39
Speaker
I'm a member of the Incredibly Boring People Club that wear an Ura ring. Oh, yes. want Weeps band. Yeah, you're also, you're in a slightly, you're in a more athletic, boring club than me, I would say. I'm in the sleep, <unk> the the sleep boring club.
00:25:55
Speaker
And I think Aura's a lot better for women. I think it does, it's a lot more, they've got more women's health insights. I think Weep is a bit like, meh. I don't know. When I was pregnant, Aura was like,
00:26:07
Speaker
Pregnancy insight, you're eight months pregnant. No shit. Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for this very important insight. But, you know, one thing that we talk about ah or have spoken about previously a while ago was heart rate variability.
00:26:24
Speaker
And...
00:26:28
Speaker
But for the uninitiated, heart rate variability is a sort of like a KPI about- I actually can't believe you brought this up. I just have to say, like, I cannot believe you're putting this onto the podcast.
00:26:40
Speaker
It's fine. It's a real sensitive subject for me. like i think it's fine. It's fine. Keep going. We don't have to share the numbers, but I think the conversation we'd had was was along the lines of we both thought our HRV should be better because it is as a metric sort of your overall health and fitness, but it also factors in your stress.
00:27:01
Speaker
And yeah, won and You want a high HRV. yeah Both of ours are lower than we would like them to be, given how much we exercise. um And what i found really interesting from my HRV it absolutely tanked in pregnancy.
00:27:18
Speaker
And when I say tanked, my average HRV was like 10, which is like you're basically dead. And then it went back up but once I'd had my baby and Really interestingly for me, my HRV is now higher as a baseline than it was pre-pregnancy whilst working.
00:27:37
Speaker
So the conclusion is I think stress actually plays a really significant factor in that number. So ah wait, say that again. It's actually better better now.
00:27:49
Speaker
the h My HRV is better post-birth on mat leave than it is pre-pregnancy at work. Therefore, work is bad for me.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah. so i I would also say ah don't want to talk about the numbers. It's It's a daily burden I live with, my heart rate variability.
00:28:11
Speaker
um I almost can't finish a sentence to do with it But let's just say it's low. It's low. And um I know that it's work and stress because when I go on holiday, it literally double it like over doubles during that week.
00:28:29
Speaker
Wow. so I literally know that my stress levels suppress my heart. Heart? It breaks your heart.
00:28:40
Speaker
Oh yeah. But look, there's a future state where that changes, I'm sure. Anyway, yes, yes, you're right. it's um i'm I'm pleased for you that yours has improved post-baby. I'm sure it will like go through the floor when I start a house renovation and go back to work.
00:28:58
Speaker
But for now, stress levels are pretty good. I think the other thing I would say about prevention from my perspective I'm pretty sure I've spoken about this on the podcast before, but doing compressed hours really helps me. I have very poor discipline for ah not working really hard when I really am into the work that I'm doing.
Managing Burnout with Work-Life Balance
00:29:17
Speaker
And actually what I was learning was that I was doing loads of hours Monday to Thursday. And i was like, well, my burnout prevention is that I just bank the Friday because I've done my hours. And if you're fortunate enough to work in a workplace that offers that and and kind of respects that, I would definitely recommend that because it just means that I have a day to sort of gather myself and do my other things and and recuperate and go to the gym and that kind of stuff. And that really, really works for me.
00:29:44
Speaker
Don't know how that will work when I go back to work with a baby, but I'll cross that bridge later. That is something I say is really good. oh Okay,
00:29:57
Speaker
let's talk about when burnout would mean that you should leave your job. Oh, okay. Biggie, biggie, biggie, biggie. The way I would approach it if one were burnt out and considering leaving their job would be like, if you if you think that your workplace won't allow support or reward people,
00:30:21
Speaker
you you if you put in place better boundaries so if you know that your workplace is somewhere that just rewards um relentless work responsiveness at all times and like that's the measure of success culture wise that is a big red flag that's like a burnout culture right and um maybe you'll be in a position to change it. Maybe you'll burn out trying.
00:30:47
Speaker
But I think that like, depending on the size of the culture you're in, it's really, really hard if something is quite ingrained to change it at a pace that suits your own timelines, especially if you think you are burnt out or nearly burnt out. So if you don't think...
00:31:03
Speaker
you're going to be able to establish better boundaries or you think that you will literally get penalised for establishing them. i think that is like quite a bad sign.
00:31:14
Speaker
I also think if you just can't recover. So for me, I just wouldn't have been able to recover doing the job I was doing. There was just no question for me. And I don't regret that decision at all.
00:31:27
Speaker
yeah right i would say i I would offer another alternative to the listeners if they're not in that that kind of founder leader role, which is you know taking mental health leave and being slightly more gentle or thoughtful about how you return and what you return to. Like maybe you return reduced hours and you phase back in. Or and i think if you feel committed to your organization, taking a break and coming back with those boundaries might be slightly easier than trying to put those boundaries in.
00:32:00
Speaker
And then, cause like the hardest bit about boundaries is holding them up when, when you hit bit of friction, everyone tends to know what boundaries they want, but actually enforcing them is, is the more difficult part. And particularly when people are used to benefiting from you not having boundaries, having about meeting a boundary all of a sudden becomes a bit of a conflict you have to resolve constantly. So taking a break and coming back, I think ah would be really
When to Leave a Job Due to Burnout
00:32:24
Speaker
good.
00:32:24
Speaker
Okay, we've we I think we've also covered... kind of sustainable work life boundaries but yeah I would say boundaries is is pretty key to making sure things are kind of proportionate to how you want them in your life and and what you can cope with any final comments on the topic no I mean as you know right oh I could talk about it for days I could talk about burnout for days, but I won't.
00:32:52
Speaker
I think that, you know, ultimately stress from a like science point of view, stress produces cortisol, cortisol is a hormone. and like when you're producing cortisol, you also, you produce cortisol in over and above producing your other hormones.
00:33:10
Speaker
So you don't produce your estrogen, your progesterone, because you your body is hardwired to produce cortisol over and above everything else to keep you safe because it it's it drives your fight or flight response.
00:33:23
Speaker
So I think it's like, It's hard to overstate how much stress for a very long time impacts women in particular and their health.
00:33:37
Speaker
And working in the area I do, you know as you as you reach perimenopause, burnout and perimenopause and your hormones changing,
00:33:48
Speaker
they really collide into something that can be so difficult to identify what the fuck is happening to you. And I think that there's this, there's almost a culture in society now that women live on the edge of burnout because there are just so many, there are so many asks and stresses on women at all times.
00:34:11
Speaker
So I think what I would say is like, it's hard to overstate how much stress impacts women's health and there is just no shame in it all being too much and you having to take a break or you having to step out but it is but it's genuinely really really hard to identify
Concluding Thoughts on Burnout
00:34:33
Speaker
the the first time or any time that you are actually burnt out so hopefully this conversation for anyone listening
00:34:42
Speaker
can help people reflect on whether they are burnt out near burnt out or whether people around them might be experiencing burnout and prompt you to check in with yourself or check in with other people that might be going through something.
00:34:58
Speaker
Because I think this is like a very, very, very big big issue for society, but particularly for for women. And so that's why I could talk about it forever. Women tend to be more people pleasing, women tend to be more perfectionist, women tend to take on more of those things, they tend to be more empathetic.
00:35:17
Speaker
And you know, the cost of those things is actually extremely high. Yeah. ah To be any of those because you will you will always try and go above and beyond. So i think it's definitely, definitely one to watch out for.
00:35:34
Speaker
are Too long didn't listen summary of the episode. Burnout is horrific. um The impact of it is significant and physiological and social and emotional. And um it's really about losing yourself and losing your confidence and Lots of good boundaries will help you on your journey back to good health.
00:36:01
Speaker
But stress is something that we live with all of our lives, including with our low heart heart rate variabilities. um But I think the key takeaway is just not to underestimate the kind of physiological and long-term health impacts of burnout and take a break.
00:36:23
Speaker
That's what I would say. Amen. Okay. Thanks for joining us today as always. If something in today's episode has resonated with you spread the magic, share it with a friend, post on your socials or leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform.
00:36:38
Speaker
That's how the coven grows. Until next time. Bye. Bye.