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S2, E9 The Career Coven: The Ultimate 360 with Francesca Ward & Dani Conlon
59 Plays22 days ago
This week’s episode is a risky experiment. Bec and Annie decided to put their chat to the test - by interviewing two people they’ve recently managed about what they’re really like. Annie interviews Francesca Ward, who Bec is currently managing. Francesca has done not one but two jobs with Bec - so knows her like the back of her hand. Bec has a chat with Dani Conlon, who was part of the team which Annie managed most recently. Dani doesn’t hold back - highlighting that Annie’s a ‘horse girl’…
We’ve learned a lot about each other through this conversation. We hope you find it as fun as we found recording it.
Enjoying this content? Please rate and subscribe on your preferred platform, and let us know what you think! hello@careercoven.com
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Transcript
Special Episode Introduction
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello to our listeners and welcome to The Career Coven. We're doing a special episode this week. So Annie and I have separately interviewed other people that we have managed. So Annie has interviewed Francesca, who I manage, and I've interviewed Danny, who Annie used to manage.
Interview Objectives
00:00:26
Speaker
And the purpose of this exercise was to give ourselves the ultimate 360 of what it's like working with us given we chat so much on this podcast. So we thought we'd give you the real insight. The important thing to say is that both Danny and Francesca have been given carte blanche to say whatever they want without consequences. These are two women that we have absolutely loved working with.
00:00:53
Speaker
So have a great time listening to this and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. I certainly learned a lot about how Gen Z presenting Annie is.
Francesca's Experience with Beck
00:01:06
Speaker
So, Francesca, it's so nice to be chatting to you about Beck and what she's really like at work. I can't wait. Thanks for having me. Honestly, such a pleasure. Thank you for doing it. So I guess first things first for all the listeners, can you describe your working relationship to Beck?
00:01:27
Speaker
Yes, so Beck and I actually first met when working in government, so we started on the exact same day in 2018, so we celebrate our work anniversary every August, ah but this was my first job out of university. I had literally graduated A couple of weeks prior, so I was unbelievably green and also naturally quite terrified, um which she definitely picked up on immediately. So although she wasn't my official line manager at this point, she kind of took me under her wing, ah basically straight away.
00:02:07
Speaker
in almost a kind of mentorship capacity. And then about a year on, um I applied for a role in her team. So that was the kind of first time she had formally managed me. And we worked in that team together up until early 2020, and then the pandemic hit. And then we were moved or surged as they call it in government to different areas of the department and for COVID response.
00:02:35
Speaker
and And then I worked in that team for about six to eight months and then I actually moved department within government and ah shortly after Beck then moved to the BBC. um And then a role came up in her team at the BBC which I applied for and we've been reunited there for about 18 months now.
00:02:53
Speaker
That is so amazing. And I mean, firstly, thank you for everything you did in COVID. I feel like everyone that was working in the government was just working so, so hard in such extraordinary times. But also, I mean, I love that you definitely applied and didn't get stolen, but you have done two roles in two places with Beck. So that's really,
00:03:20
Speaker
Cool, so right now what is um what is your job and what is Beck's job? So I am a Strategy and Program Manager in the Advertising Division of BBC Studios so working on business transformation and commercial development projects and programmes and I report into her as VP of Strategy When I first joined, she was heading up a slightly different and larger team actually and had ah a slightly different remit. But we've since moved to a slightly different division within the business. So it's now just the two of us working on all things strategy. Perfect. Oh, well, it sounds like it's...
00:04:02
Speaker
It always sounds very complicated, your organisation, like there's so many moving parts and there's so many people. um Very large. Yeah, from my perspective, like having mostly worked in tiny businesses, that is that complexity is like really terrifying.
Danny's Insights on Annie
00:04:19
Speaker
Hello, Danny. How are you? I'm good, Bec. Very excited to be on here as the number one fan or the podcast number one fan. You could be my personal fan too. We'll review at the end of the episode and see if we can be best friends. Well, look, we're delighted to have you on here. You have been live managed by Annie. Do you want to do a quick intro to who you are and what you do?
00:04:45
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. So I'm Danny Condon. I've been working at the Lowdown for two and a half years. And I basically manage all things community and partnerships. So that means like chatting to brands, chatting to people on the DMs, emails, all that jazz.
00:05:06
Speaker
Lovely well great to have you here and obviously Annie has just finished her time at the Lowdown which I'm sure you're incredibly sad about but can you tell us a bit more about your working relationship to Annie so how long were you guys working together and and what was Annie's kind of capacity while you were doing that I assume you were probably in the same role. Yeah so Annie went in I think she joined us in about in August last year, and she was the founder of the Lowdowns interim CEO. So she managed me for about six months. I was kind of counting it because we had a switch over in June. So yeah, she was kind of managing a lot of people, but she ended up managing me as well as part of that um interim CEO role. And then when the founder came back, she ended up being chief product officer.
00:05:58
Speaker
which I was like, oh, I love that title. It was quite different what she was up to because she ended up and managing the product team. Awesome. So, okay, let's get into it. Bex management style.
Beck's Management Style
00:06:14
Speaker
Let's start with the positives. What do you think are the best parts of the way that she manages you?
00:06:22
Speaker
So I think the first thing I'd say is that she is just incredibly supportive, and both professionally and personally. And she really takes the time to kind of understand you as a person, what makes you tick, your kind of ways of working and how to kind of bring the best out of you.
00:06:42
Speaker
And I remember when she first started like managing me at back in government and this has always stuck with me, she sent this really long induction email explaining her ways of working, her expectations, how she likes to receive information and then ask me to fill in some questions to the same effect, which was a bit of a novelty at the time, but I just knew kind of from the outset that she genuinely cared and was really kind of committed to forming the best relationship, kind of working relationship possible. um The second thing I would say is that she
00:07:20
Speaker
always champions and gives a hell of a lot of credit to the work of her team. um And we'll always look for opportunities to elevate you to kind of gain exposure and visibility to senior stakeholders and other areas of the business.
00:07:38
Speaker
And she's just really passionate about the development of her team um and will always push you to your maximum potential but is always there to kind of provide direction and steer so you don't feel like you're in that kind of panic zone.
00:07:54
Speaker
and But overall I'd just say like whatever I've worked with her and in kind of whatever team and whatever capacity she will just always strive to try and create the best team culture possible where everyone feels kind of valued, respected and really empowered.
00:08:12
Speaker
Oh my God, I hope that Dani says some of that stuff about me. That was so nice. I was like, fuck. This was this podcast was a bad idea because Dani's going to be like, yeah, she's super organised. That's going to be like it. That's going to be the best I get. I think you're up too much already. No, um I think you can you can tell, can't you? You can just tell she cares so much and that's why she's our friend as well. And she's just such a warm person. But the thing I really admire about Beck, and maybe she'll edit this out, but she's so boundaried. And I think that like those boundaries and those expectations like with that warmth must be like just the best combination. It really is.
00:09:03
Speaker
Okay, so now let's get into the the worst parts because she's got it. She can't just be this golden girl. She can't just have all that glow without a little bit of something juicy. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a worst part, but I think working together, we are quite similar and kind of match and mirror it in terms of having like quite high levels of attention to detail and kind of expectation in terms of our work and our outputs, which I personally love, but I don't actually think that's always helpful, particularly when you're in a team of two, I think there's a potential risk there of kind of holding each other back.
00:09:45
Speaker
um And she probably is better at letting go than I am, but I think we do both have to remind ourselves and and each other sometimes that sometimes it's kind of good, it's good enough to move on and over analyzing a piece of work over and over, it's usually not a very productive use of time. Like that perfectionism that that you both have it. Yes.
00:10:13
Speaker
And then I think when you're in a team of two and you're both quite similar in that way, and it can be quite limiting sometimes. But I bet they get the most amazing outputs from both of you. They're probably like, we fucking love it. um three or i I need a you to work with me or a back because I am like such a not perfectionist that I know like,
00:10:40
Speaker
i I know that people get annoyed when I send them these like sloppy PowerPoints, but i'm like but the number is right and I'm done. like I'm done. um So yeah, I like i envy it. I think you always want a bit of like what you don't have, don't you? Yeah, exactly. i think Tell me how you would describe Annie's management
Annie's Management Style
00:11:01
Speaker
style. Give us the highlights and the lowlights. Yeah, okay. I would say in general, I think Annie is a bit more hands-off um compared to different managers I have. I've had loads of different jobs just for reference. I kind of worked like hospitality, retail, used to work at a theater. I've just had like so many different jobs and the lowdown's kind of been my first proper office job.
00:11:27
Speaker
And I think overall, she's probably been the most hands off of all the managers I've had, which has been really nice. Not to say that she's like that relaxed, but it's just like a really nice mix. So I think the best parts about Annie's management styles is that she gives a lot of praise.
00:11:48
Speaker
Oh, potentially sometimes too much praise. She's like, you're a star. And I'm like, I literally just replied to an email. Like, that is not star worthy, but I will take it. um And she's very enthusiastic about stuff like that. It's kind of the same thing, but she'll be really enthusiastic about something sort of silly. You know, I'll just say, Oh, we just did this thing. And she's like, epic, amazing. And she will, um,
00:12:16
Speaker
She loves an emoji. So she ends up using like five different emojis on Slack to convey how happy she feels about that thing, which I really love. What would you say are her most common emojis that she uses?
00:12:30
Speaker
Okay. So this is a, this is a whole thing, but she absolutely loves the green tick emoji. Oh yeah. We actually got her moon pig card with a big tick that says, thank you for all your hard work, Annie. And we've got everyone to tick it in Slack. So it comes up with like 10 reactions to it, which is very fun. She also likes the painting your nails emoji. She's like, Oh yeah. That one. Yeah. Depends on the mood. but I think those two were her biggies.
00:12:58
Speaker
My favourite is um the salute. That is a very powerful emoji to use. I can really see Annie as a green tick emoji because it's like a get shit done emoji. You're like, bam, finished. Yeah. It's like, I'm not, I don't have anything to say, but I read it and I've seen it. ah It's just a tick. I do it all the time now. I love it. I'd say it's slightly more sophisticated than a thumbs up, um you know? Yeah.
00:13:25
Speaker
There's this whole thing about how um Gen Z people, which we'll talk about later, because I have thoughts about Gen Z millennial things. Right. But there's this whole thing about Gen Z people crying when their manager sends them a thumbs up. Because they just think it seems really passive aggressive, which I actually don't really care about. um But I'm like on the cusp. And the tick is, yeah, exactly. It's a bit more sophisticated. It's got less weight.
00:13:55
Speaker
She's cool about her audience there. Love that. Are there any like worst parts about Annie's management style? I mean, we've had a whole episode in season one about how much she loves feedback. Does everyone love the feedback that Annie gives? Yeah, it was funny because I was listening to that episode and I was like, I love feedback. So it really helps. But I think, I think, I think you better feel like less comfortable about feedback. And I think if you at our job,
00:14:24
Speaker
if you don't like feedback, you would struggle, I think. But I really like it, so I'm fine. I would say one of the worst parts is sometimes Annie checks in a lot, which is a which is the thing that a great manager should do. But sometimes she knows I'm not feeling great before I do. So she'll be like, you are quite quiet today. And I was like, oh my God, yeah, I am quiet. Because this thing happened just today that annoyed me. It's like she knows me.
00:14:54
Speaker
better than I know myself, which is kind of really nice being in a manager. It's really important to like be able to see how other people are feeling. um But sometimes I'd be like, damn it, honey. I was having an ignorance with this thing. You're like, I was just doing it by myself. What do you mean? I have to talk about it. ah Yeah, so just on the stevefa stage yeah I think.
00:15:21
Speaker
Whenever I've received feedback from Annie, it's been to the point, but in the right setting. I think that's the pointless feedback, isn't it? As long as it's in the right space, yeah, feedback shouldn't be an uncomfortable fit. Okay. Is there anything that Beck does day to day that you wish she didn't do? Like anything that annoys you a bit. I'm obviously going to dig around for, for negatives. Now you've said such nice things.
00:15:49
Speaker
Oh, I wouldn't say anything necessarily annoys me because we've just worked together for so long now now. Yeah, exactly. But I think it does freak me out just kind of how well she knows me sometimes. And the way she reads people is just pretty unmatched.
00:16:08
Speaker
Like if if there's something that she says that I don't necessarily agree with, like she can tell straight away. And I think I've got quite a good poker face, but there's no kind of ah hiding. So I'd probably say that can get a bit annoying. Okay. Okay. That she can like read you. Yeah. Can you read her? I think so. Again, she likes to think she's got a good poker face, but I can always tell.
00:16:33
Speaker
I definitely do not think she has got a good break. The mask does slip sometimes. No, she's very, very professional, of course, but I know when I've annoyed her. Yeah. yeah um I don't think that's very often, i I should say, when she listens to this. I don't think I've annoyed you that often, but I'm sure I i know when I have. Is there anything Annie does that you wish that they didn't do?
00:16:59
Speaker
Yes.
Annie's Habits and Quirks
00:17:00
Speaker
Stop it with you. This is not really stupid, and I don't even think I've ever told her this, but I don't know if you use Slack, but she never ever replies to a thread on Slack. It will be like always separate, and it really annoys me. I'll be like, because yeah, I'm just such um such a Slack queen, but I like to like look for it later. And yeah, so she never app replies to a Slack message. That's far of an offense in my eyes, or at least your eyes.
00:17:29
Speaker
Right? 100%. I'm not feeling about it. It's just, you know, it's been on my mind for a while. And then, yeah, on the praise, sometimes I think that she probably gives praise when I don't really need it. Like, but she bought me flowers once for doing something as part of my job. And she was like, you're a legend. And I was like, it's so beautiful. Like, such a lovely person to do that. But also,
00:17:55
Speaker
You don't need to give me flowers for doing my job description. Aw, what a softie. Such a softie, she'll hate that. um but It was actually her birthday, so she was holding these ah really nice little white tulips, and she was walking up to me, and I was like, ooh, we do have got adults, like, I need to collect, I need to go and get her card at lunchtime. well I was remembering, she was like, these are for you, and I was like,
00:18:19
Speaker
Oh, why? It's your birthday weekend. Um, but I mean, that's like a really nice thing that I wish you could do. more Maybe I'd take that. That is actually lovely. Okay. What do you think should be on Beck's development plan?
00:18:35
Speaker
ah good question. i I would say that we've probably got very used to working in a team of two and as mentioned operating quite a similar way so I guess looking ahead ah when she goes on to manage a larger team again I think it will be about adapting to new and potentially different personalities and ways of working again i as well as making sure that she kind of continues to delegate as she gets more senior when less of the actual kind of work falls on was on her plate. Interesting. Yeah, I really struggle with this myself. Like every time I have transitioned into a role where I do less of the output, I find that really, really hard and I feel a bit useless and I start to be like,
00:19:29
Speaker
oh my god I'm not doing enough, I'm not doing enough and um yeah I've definitely had some feedback on that recently from my team which was really really funny ah because they were like you're doing enough for us and we're doing our jobs and that's fine and I was like okay I think I need to like leave basically um so you know it always good to have an extreme reaction but yeah so what you're saying is you guys have now worked in this small kind of high functioning team where you both know each other like two peas in a pod and there will be a time when that won't be the case and that might take a bit of adjustment for her. Yes, I'd say so. Okay, this is all so nice Francesca. So, so nice. What do you think should be on Annie's development plan?
00:20:21
Speaker
Yeah, so I think she spoke about this in a previous episode, but I still kind of think she does it. So I'm going to call her out on her own podcast. But it's this thing about when you're giving, um you're giving people feedback. And sometimes you'd end up doing the thing for you instead of actually instead of actually giving her feedback. And I think to start off, you know, that's what happens. You know, you really want to send that email quickly. And so she'd like write the email for me. And I think that probably, if I were to really say anything, it would be, you know, just give me the feedback, make me write it, and then I'll learn. maybe yeah Is there something you can tell me that you think people who have listened to this podcast would not know about Beck?
Personal Interests and Hobbies
00:21:12
Speaker
I think one thing that always strikes me is just how many past and current hobbies, interests, extracurricular activities she's involved in. I couldn't have been like less surprised when she told me she was going to Antarctica for three weeks. like It's like an on-brand thing I've heard.
00:21:33
Speaker
But honestly, pottery, photography, girlguiding, boxing, rowing, rugby, volunteering, you name it, she's done it. But even though I've known her for coming up to six years now, I'm still finding out about past hobbies that she used to do. And my favourite this week, obviously inspired by the Olympics, was the fact that she did gymnastics when she was younger. But I'm not just talking cartwheels and handstands, she did the vault.
00:22:00
Speaker
the other two bars. A whole lot. She thought she was the main Olympian. Yeah. I did not know, I don't know anyone who's done the bars. Neither. She thought it was quite easy actually. but Of course she said it was easy. Oh my god. But also just how she manages to like balance all these hobbies with her job like is is something that always impresses me but I do just tell her to take a nap sometimes. Just yeah how like she is she is like hyper functional but like in a balanced way it's mad yeah and i'm so jealous of it because i like have i had so much coaching honestly for years and every every time i had my coaching session i would be like i just need a hobby so that i work less and he would be like yeah we've had this conversation before so like what have you done about it and i'm like well i still exercise um which is just like so boring i'm such a bleak person and exactly the same i'm exactly the same it's of a big contrast yeah one one day we'll get there one day we'll get there but it's i can tell you it's not going to be today for me
00:23:09
Speaker
Okay. Tell us something that you think the pod listeners might not know about Annie. I've been waiting for this question. I'm very excited to talk about this. I don't know if she's ever spoken about this, but Annie is a horse girl. And the reason I know this is because in the first, I think it was probably like the first week she'd been managing me.
00:23:34
Speaker
I made a reference to someone being a horse girl and I was being derogatory and I was like, well, she's just just a bit of a horse girl, isn't she? And she was like, boy, I'm a horse girl. And I remember texting my friend being like, I've got a new manager and she's going to be my manager for like the next six months. And I've just slagged off her entire culture, like being a horse girl.
00:23:57
Speaker
And yeah, now now it's a bit of crap for two adults, but at the time I was like, oh my gosh, she hates me. She's gonna think I'm really being mean. Horse girls like, cause I'm kind of also from the country side.
00:24:09
Speaker
area. Horse Girl is derogatory. like And just I just couldn't believe it. I was like, well, she looks quite cool to me. So I just wasn't expecting it. It's not running around in a barber jacket um out in the field. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. So that's why representation matters because, you know. It's good to get all flavours of the country. um Danny, for our listeners who are not from the UK, can you give a definition of Horse Girl?
00:24:36
Speaker
What is a horse girl? Someone who loves horse riding and who's like kind of obsessed with their horses. So they'll like take photos with their horses. They'll like, a I'm trying to think of what else they do. They're just sort of like, you know, and I'm not a mean girl. What I'm about to say is pretty mean girl energy is like at college, the horse girls were kind of the losers.
00:25:02
Speaker
They were kind of like farm girl vibes, but I'm just digging myself into a deeper hole. I think you want to cut that out later, but I enjoyed it very much. So I hope you decide. I've got another thing. She's just a massive pop culture fan. She, I mean, you'll probably know, but, um, yeah, she loves Charlie XCX. She loves Taylor Swift.
00:25:30
Speaker
I think it was a bit of a shock for me. I was like, whoa, she's just DM'd me that Taylor Swift's got a new album. Before I knew that Taylor Swift had a new album. um So she's ah she's a big pop girlie, which we connected on a lot. And when she went to Glasto, she did a Glasto Awards, which was really cute. So she like tagged everyone in Slack. like um are you ready for the Glasto Awards? And then she put a comment, if I don't get any responses, I will not be doing this, by the way. And then we're like, that is so pick the energy. And then everyone, just everyone will find like, yes, I'd love it. But and I absolutely loved it. She said, like, all of her faith
00:26:17
Speaker
artist, the biggest flop, you know, all that jazz. Amazing. I mean, and she she is a pop girlie, as am I. I mean, I don't want to out myself too much on this, but Annie and I are both in a WhatsApp group with a third person called Maths UK, which was set up specifically for a nightly discussion about married at first sight. so This is amazing. I've actually never seen it. Australia's much better. I really want to watch it.
00:26:47
Speaker
Okay, what is in your memory or in your mind at the moment as one of the most either hilarious or kind of iconic moments that you've had whilst working with Beck?
Handling Workplace Challenges
00:27:00
Speaker
Oh, gosh, there has certainly been a lot of the thick of it and W1A moments over the years. But I'd say one moment that does springtime was a project that we were working on in government and it was supposed to be quite a short term thing but ended up going on a lot longer than we had expected. And it was quite a high profile one and we were working with lots of external stakeholders but there was also quite a lot of kind of cross departmental ways of working and Beck was drafted into the project a couple of months in to try and get things moving again and she developed a kind of ah really comprehensive um delivery plan and presented it to the other departments
00:27:46
Speaker
and there was this one man from ah another department who let's just say made things a hell of a lot more difficult than they needed to be and I was watching him the entire presentation he was just sat there with a face on and I was waiting for him to interject and then he finally interjected towards the end and just totally mansplained project management to her um and just reeled off every reason why what she was proposing wasn't feasible. And as an example said, Beck, the best way I would explain it is that two women cannot make a baby in four and a half months. It's just not possible.
00:28:31
Speaker
And we were all just like stunned into silence, but I would just say the way she dealt with it and moved forward from it was was a pretty iconic moment. I don't even like those kinds of things just completely stopped me in my tracks. I know, it really did. Yeah, I probably would have got fired on the spot, honestly, that's me.
00:28:55
Speaker
Okay, next question. Tell us what your most hilarious or iconic experience has been with Annie in the workplace. I also love this question, by the way. I think it's kind of on that pop culture theme, but um I had to teach Annie what selenial meant, meaning Gen Z slash selenial. And I'm going to explain what it means from, because I've screenshot what it says on Urban Dictionary. I was like, I don't know what this means. Does that mean that I'm old? Maybe, maybe. um So Urban Dictionary, which we know is not the best um website, and it says that millennials are the last years of millennials and the first year of Gen Z with mixed traits of both. um So we ended up doing, this is also out in myself, but we ended up doing a like, um
00:29:52
Speaker
a yes or no. I can't even think about how you describe these things. Like a lovely tree. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's what it is. And I think Addie got a Selenial and she was like, what is Selenial? And I was like, the fact you don't even know that proves that you're a millennial. and then obviously I think ended up doing the test. She was like, no, I am a Selenial. And then every time she does anything vaguely Gen Z, she'll be like, I am.
00:30:18
Speaker
<unk> and i'm art So I'm 27, so I was born 1997, and I'm actually legit selenial, but I'm probably on the more Gen Z. To be clear, Annie is not a selenial. She's not, but she has selenial energy.
00:30:39
Speaker
What do people or do you think people in the company say about Beck when she's not in the room?
High Standards and Support
00:30:51
Speaker
I would say they'd say she has incredibly high standards, very high levels of kind of accountability and motivation ah but also expects that of others around her. um I would probably say they'd say she's quite direct in approach um but her ability to kind of lead and guide and get things done is kind of very, very impressive.
00:31:24
Speaker
um And I'd also say that they probably say she's a very kind of passionate person, both in and outside of work, like she really cares about supporting and elevating women in particular in the workplace and loads of other really kind of important causes. And then she does really kind of go above and beyond in in those areas.
00:31:51
Speaker
I just like ah honestly can't believe how nice you're being. and And it's so good because it's true and she's amazing. yeah And it's amazing to know such an amazing person. But honestly, selfishly, I am just thinking, what the fuck is Annie gonna say about me?
00:32:09
Speaker
Tell us a bit more about other people's experience of Annie. What do you reckon people at the lowdown say about Annie when she's not in the room?
00:32:21
Speaker
Okay, what do people say about Annie when she's not in the room? Before I met her, one of my colleagues said that she was stylish. It was like, Annie Coleridge is a very stylish person. And I was like, that is such a random thing to say about someone who's just about to join. I was like, you know, what does she do? Like, tell me more about her. And they were like, she's just very stylish. And then I met her and I was like,
00:32:46
Speaker
yeah She is a bit stylish. I agree. I think that was the first thing I thought about her as well when I saw her. I didn't know her at all and I was like, damn, she's got to get out for that. She just left. So we we've been talking about her a bit more. I mean, we were always talking about her, but we were speaking about her and I think she wasn't in a meeting because maybe she was in Denmark. And our founder Alice said, can everyone make sure you get a meeting with Annie? And just, you know, catch up on anything you need to catch up on.
00:33:15
Speaker
And she was like, yeah, one thing everyone should catch up with Annie on is how to become the most efficient person ever. It was like a really great compliment. So I think, yeah, everyone's always like, how does she get everything done? That's something that I have heard people say. and But at the same time, she sort of, she is that kind of do her. She always gets it done, but she's she is pretty relaxed. We had an event and everyone was flapping. I'm not really a flapper, but even I was a bit stressed. The ice was late and people were arriving and we didn't have any ice. And I was stressed and I just came up to Addie and Addie was like, it's not that deep really. And I was like, yeah, she is just that chills energy that you need in the room when everyone else is like,
00:34:03
Speaker
Oh, she is iconic in that way, I'd say. She is totally a get shit done. Like, honestly, when when we're doing this podcast, and like, I will do the the first rough edit of an episode and send it to Annie, and she will listen to it, take notes, send me a voice note of feedback. Oh, while on I want to run. and frank
00:34:27
Speaker
you're insane can be that's what people say about a about but but shes been to her face to be fair Right, finally, final comment from you. If you had to summarise how has Beck helped you in your career, what would you say?
00:34:47
Speaker
um I would say I think like lots of people I've struggled with quite low self confidence and like the inevitable imposter syndrome, particularly in the early years um of my career. And she's given me quite a lot of tough love um over the years, um but has kind of really believed in me and like sometimes when I haven't kind of believed I could do it. But I would also say she's just really challenged and stretched me and in the best possible way it will never let me be overly comfortable, and which is obviously hugely beneficial for like kind of overall development.
00:35:32
Speaker
And we were actually reflecting in like my last performance review about the first performance review and that she ever did for me back in 2018 and just how different it is and kind of how much I've come on, which was which was really nice. But i think I think a lot of that I do kind of owe to her for sure.
00:35:53
Speaker
Oh, well, you guys obviously just have the most kind of beautiful working relationship and friendship outside of work. um And it is amazing that you've kind of like been together off and on since 2018. That's so nice. yeah um So yeah, really appreciate it.
00:36:13
Speaker
You've been so pleasant and joyful. um But yeah, it's been such ah such a nice, nice time chatting to you. And um of course, Beck comes out with glowing references. So let's see, let's see what happens on the other side, Francesca. I can't wait for this. I'm quaking in my boots. Okay, last question. Tell me how Annie has helped you in your career, what's she done and and tell us a bit about that.
Leadership Lessons
00:36:45
Speaker
She's taught me a lot, you know, so obviously I met her a year ago and I think, I would say I'm still pretty kind of early on in my career and I think she taught me a lot about different kinds of leadership, which I really love. I've been actually so lucky to be, because I said I've had lots of jobs, but more recently in the past three years, I've mostly only been managed by women, which is just so amazing. You know, that's a very, very rare and I always tell my friends like,
00:37:15
Speaker
Well, I managed by this lovely lady and they're like, a woman? Yeah, which is, which is why I love the podcast so much because it's, it's just really important to be able to talk about these things, you know, as a young woman at the middle of my career, like kind of getting in there. So um yeah, really great. I think it's definitely interesting being managed by women because Now I would say, I always have been a bit like this, but I don't really like it when men tell me what to tell me what to do. Yeah, of course. How can I do more? When men tell me what to do, I'm like, I don't want to do this thing. Which is very funny. um When I first met Annie, when she actually started working with us, she made a notion of what she's like to work with, um which I've never seen before in my life. And when she sent her, I was like,
00:38:09
Speaker
Oh, that's strange. Like, why do we need this? And I love it. I think it's such a great thing. I mean, I would do it if I ever went anywhere else. I think it's so, you know, she highlight, I haven't seen the notion for a while, but she kind of highlights her boundaries, you know, how she likes to work. And that's just really amazing. I think that will help me a lot.
00:38:32
Speaker
um What else? I mean, i love I love that she's highlighted her boundaries because she gave so much chat on the boundaries episode about how bad she was at setting her boundaries. And that sounds exceptional from Annie. So I think she's underscored herself there. Yeah, yeah I think one of one of the things that she put in is kind of like she likes to be prepared for things.
00:38:55
Speaker
And I thought that was that you should like to be prepared for meetings and all stuff like that. that I think now that's a boundary that she probably doesn't really think of as a boundary. um But yeah, she says she struggles with boundaries. I think you're all right. That's her opinion. um Just yeah, I guess on the flowers day, that is just a lovely thing to do. Like, and I think that will really help me when I'm a manager in the future to kind of remember how to kind of take care of your employees. um Yeah, so I've learned a lot. Oh, my God. Oh, another one is that she's always very enthusiastic and active in conversations. And I always find so I've recently started working remotely.
00:39:42
Speaker
And, um, what she does in kind of like Google Meets is that she'll react a lot to things. So she'll like do the like party emoji and you know, when it goes like party hate ah emoji, smiley face, thumbs up. And, um, it's really, I think it's such a great thing to be able to do because when you're working remotely, you can't really show, um, how your.
00:40:06
Speaker
Like how you're feeling, you know, someone's presenting and you don't want to interrupt, but you want to give positive feedback. I think that's a really nice thing to do. And I've been doing it since she's gone. So I think that's the hype girl baton has been passed on to you. That's it. Hype girling. That's what I've learned from Annie. How to hype girls. I think it's a really important leadership style. Everyone likes hype girls. That's awesome. who and then and I wanted to add that Susan, because we can't not talk about Susan when we're talking about Annie. I was wondering whether Susan was going to come up and I was like, shit, is Danny not a dog person? Like Susan deserves a special mention. oh exactly So I was going to say that kind of.
00:40:54
Speaker
You know, Monday mornings, I love my job, but sometimes I find Monday mornings difficult. cool And I will always come in on Monday because I know Susan. oh Because Susan just chills, chills me out. And it's just so nice. Like, it's not really particularly stressful. It's always like Monday, Sunday scaries, I feel like are always scarier than what Monday ends up being.
00:41:18
Speaker
Um, but I'll come in, Susan will give me lots of kisses. Is it the licks like up the nose and in the ear that she gives you? Yeah. Yeah. with Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Susan's kind of taught me, it's not that deep as well and that in a similar angry way. So it's like, you know,
00:41:46
Speaker
It's not that deep. Let's just have a run around. I'm so glad that Susan got a special mention. I was going to feel nervous if we'd done this episode and Susan hadn't been mentioned. So she's got her own segment towards the end. Thank you, Susan, for your service to all people. She's the best dog ever. She's the best.
00:42:04
Speaker
we' got We've got Annie a leaving present and it's a jumper with Susan. I got a picture of that immediately, obviously. It is incredible. Well, Danny, that's all the questions that we had. Do you have any parting words on Annie before we let you get on with your evening?
00:42:24
Speaker
Annie's just great. She's a great's a great person and manager and friend. information From colleagues to friends, you've made it. um I know. she was That's what she said she wanted to be. She wanted to be a colleague friend. And yeah, I think I kind of mentioned it, but I think what you two are doing is pretty amazing. And I just, I'm so excited for you to grow. And then to be like, I was on the podcast. Thank you for being our hype girl too, Danny. It's lovely and
00:42:58
Speaker
We love it. yeah um so All right. Well, thanks everyone. Thanks for listening. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you on the next ever episode. Thanks so much, Danny.
00:43:09
Speaker
um