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S3E4 The Career Coven: Values
61 Plays21 days ago
In this week's episode we cover values in the workplace, what they are, and why they matter. Bec this week goes completely off the cuff on this as she’s a values pro, and Annie did a bit of soul searching to reflect on what her values in the workplace are.
We cover:
- How values and ethics are related
- How your values can be supported in work, or not
- Our own personal values and how we live them
- How values are different in different aspects of life e.g. work, self, friendships
- How values change over time, including in life transition stages like pregnancy
- Navigating values misalignment
- What we think of workplace values and how they are used
We also cover important topics such as to “wed-shred” or to “wed-dread”, and Bec ponders a potential correlation between how much you get paid, and how harmful the work you do it.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Career Coven
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to The Career Coven, the podcast for serious careers with unserious chat. I'm Bec, a coach, corporate citizen and recovering perfectionist. And I'm Annie, a workaholic, slowly learning boundaries.
00:00:21
Speaker
And in each episode, we unpack career challenges and workplace wisdom through honest conversations, practical tools and a healthy dose of real talk. So you can thrive on your own terms.
00:00:32
Speaker
Let's get into it.
Bec's Coaching Journey
00:00:35
Speaker
Bec, how are you? How am I? I am good. I am nearing the end of my coaching course, which I have really enjoyed. But I'm now feeling like it was maybe kind of an insane decision to do a training course on maternity leave. I'm feeling that pressure, which... You've done extraordinarily well.
00:00:58
Speaker
Thank you. I feel... really tired I wouldn't recommend to other people to do what I did now I think it was very ambitious which is unsurprising from you but also just a lot yeah and I you know we'll get into it today's topic is on values ambition is definitely one of my values but like I really pushed that slightly too far Good to recognise that. You've learnt.
00:01:25
Speaker
Great awareness. Good. I've got a nice little vermouth and tonic in my glass today. So always nice to have a quick drink when recording this delightful episode.
Annie's Pre-Wedding Stress
00:01:35
Speaker
How am i Well, the main wedding looms closer and I told myself basically every day in the last six months that I will...
00:01:45
Speaker
I will get onto my wed shred, but I'm starting to believe there won't be a wed shred for Annie. There will just be a wed dread. and And then I'll get there and I'll have a great time. And I probably won't look as good as I thought I was going to.
00:02:02
Speaker
But honestly, how bad can it be? Like, it's just gonna be a fun day. You know, honestly, as someone who did wedge red, I wish I was the kind of person who was slightly more evolved and body positive and being like, you don't need to wedge red, just do whatever the fuck you want.
00:02:19
Speaker
That's, that's the take I'd wish I'd had. So I, you know, drink your vermouth and drink. Say what the fuck you feel like. yeah like this Everyone looks hot on their wedding day. It's the hottest one will ever look in their life, I'm pretty sure.
00:02:36
Speaker
So... what's What's a few bits and bobs here and there? Yeah, I just think I've got unrealistic goals in that area. I was like, I'll look like a completely different person. I'm going to look literally 15 years younger. And it's like, no you're not.
00:02:48
Speaker
Like you're literally, you're just going to look exactly the way you look every
Coping with Hair Loss
00:02:52
Speaker
day. But yeah, on on the topic of my looks, which isn't the topic of today, because it's on something much deeper, but I think it is important to let everyone know, including you, that I am losing my hair. I've got these really clear, bald patches.
00:03:05
Speaker
which is actually the main wedding concern, is that I have the hairline of an 85 year old man. However, you just got to live it, haven't you? There's not much I can do now about that.
00:03:17
Speaker
It's gone. I don't know why it went. But um yeah, experiencing bit of hair loss. Well, I didn't notice. I think you can style it out if It's like a problem.
00:03:27
Speaker
i As someone who has gone through postpartum hair loss. I was going to actually ask, have you experienced that? I did. And my temples looked basically bald. And I was like, oh my God, my hair's never going grow back.
00:03:39
Speaker
And then it started regrowing and it looks like... Like baby hair. Yeah. Can you see these ones? Yeah. It comes back. Don't worry. But just also, reckon you could just put a bit of brown eyeshadow in there or something. It'll be fine.
00:03:54
Speaker
Yeah, look. I mean... It's not going to come back. So, yeah, just got to live on that one. I think there's a way that, yeah, I can hide it, basically.
00:04:05
Speaker
Susan's crying. So um in case any of the listeners can hear that that in the background, that's also something that's going on for me right now. But otherwise... Susan crying, not Annie about her hair. No, yeah, it's not it's not just me slowly moaning.
00:04:18
Speaker
Just...
00:04:21
Speaker
Imagine if I did start doing that though. Anyway, but otherwise I'm i'm well.
Why Discuss Personal and Professional Values?
00:04:26
Speaker
I'm well, thank you. good Shall we get into values? Yeah, let's do that. Come on, tell tell us from your coaching...
00:04:33
Speaker
What are values? I'm actually expecting you to teach me a thing or two after this coaching course on values. So so tell me, what are they and why do they matter? So I actually haven't really researched this episode in in in a classic, just doing an off the cuff, blah, blah, blah about this topic.
00:04:53
Speaker
I think in terms, like values are actually really important. That was me being really flippant. I often think it is easier to identify them when you rub up against them in a scenario. I think if we were to just randomly come up with some values you might not come up with the right answer and I think the answer could change over time but I would generally kind of think of them as components or characteristics that are most important to you and I think the important part there is around your drive and your motivation and what kind of feels right to you and this is like such a personal question they also if I had been bothered to sort of do a
00:05:33
Speaker
a basic research on a definition of values. I'm sure there'd be like
Understanding Values and Ethics
00:05:37
Speaker
a second clause to the definition, which is about ethics. I think ethics do come into it. You know, I think when people talk about their values, I think most people as a baseline would hope that they're ethical.
00:05:50
Speaker
You know, something around integrity. Although saying that, like, there are people at work who don't have integrity. Not that I've worked with necessarily, but, you know, there are chances and cowboys and...
00:06:01
Speaker
cowgirls and all those things so I think ethics do it is a kind of angle in but it's perhaps not the central part of values but I think knowing them and working in a place that aligns with them and work where you feel supported in your values is what makes you really enjoy a career and when that is not in place it can go really badly yeah It can.
Influence of Thought Leaders
00:06:29
Speaker
We've got like quite a few classics who talk about values. We've got, a you know, Brene Brown. The icon. The icon. Yeah. I mean, I've read a couple of Brene books.
00:06:42
Speaker
Do I think they're the best things? I don't know. A lot of people really like her. So I don't want to question her outwardly in public because that will result in. I think you shouldn't.
00:06:52
Speaker
I think let's, let's cap that. I've only read one, Daring Greatly. Okay. And I loved it. Of course I loved it. She spoke to me deeply. I think it was before she got, like she was big for sure, but obviously now she's like massive and everywhere and everyone quotes her on everything. Which think is a bit boring, isn't it?
00:07:12
Speaker
But I did really like that one. Yeah. But she she talks about values a lot, living your values, doesn't she? Being authentic. Yeah. She strikes me as someone who is is extremely high on the EQ scale. So I would kind of trust her on this one, particularly...
00:07:27
Speaker
In a leadership context as well. That feels really important. You have the... like He's like the male version of Brené Brown. Simon Steinek. Start with why. think he came first.
00:07:41
Speaker
Not that it's a competition, but I do think he probably did come first. Yeah, that I feel like that five whys video of him like in a little office room with a flip chart is from 2005 YouTube or something.
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I've like, um You know, because I'm now married to a total bro and his like copies of Start With Why are like pretty old. They look like they're like maybe 20 years old and he was reading them when he was 10.
00:08:08
Speaker
So I think this guy's been around for a while. It's so pathetic that I actually can imagine Anders reading Start With Why when he was 10. He's such a good little leg.
00:08:20
Speaker
But yeah, ah obviously for for the uninitiated, Start With Why is really about kind purpose-driven work and...
Generational Value Shifts
00:08:27
Speaker
understanding and getting to the heart of something and and that being the kind of center from which you build out and then you know I think actually there's a really interesting generational point about values Millennials and Gen Zs are more likely to be seeking the type of work that aligns with their values. And I think that is more true for our generation and Gen Zs than it is but for the older workforce, not to massively generalise, but Deloitte said it. So it must be true.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. And that's because I think, well, I think one of the reasons, right, is that like, just having a normal job now, it like doesn't get you a house and it doesn't get you a, you know, it doesn't get you as much as maybe like a nine to five used to be like the key to kind of just stability. Whereas now a nine to five is not necessarily the key to like lifelong stability.
00:09:20
Speaker
So people therefore don't want it to be mundane. I heard something really interesting the other day. go on. I don't even know if there would be a way to fact check this. So just everyone take this as a speculation rather than fact. I was going to say the opposite. Everyone take it just as fact. We can't check it. Just take it as fact. I listened to it on a news podcast.
00:09:42
Speaker
So it's plausible it's correct that you...
Ethics of High-Paying Jobs
00:09:47
Speaker
there is a correlation between how much you get paid and how harmful the work is that you do.
00:09:53
Speaker
Like, o a kind of I know, i know, right? That was, that was okay punchy. That's miserable. But I would believe it if it were.
00:10:04
Speaker
i would believe that. Like, I think that's the example that they use in that was like, you know, like the tobacco industry, for example, like, you know, known naughty things.
00:10:15
Speaker
Yeah. But you a drug dealer is probably pretty wealthy for the amount of work they actually do. Yeah. Well, I have to do a digression on to, have you heard of a guy called Rutger Bregman, the author?
Rutger Bregman's Perspective on Meaningful Work
00:10:28
Speaker
You will have heard of his books and or seen his latest book advertised. So he wrote Utopia for Realists. He's like a Dutch historian turned like basically centre left or leftist.
00:10:40
Speaker
icon in economics god i actually sound like anders now like it's surprising but we're going there let's go it was on a podcast that he was on ah the guardians think it's called like today in focus or something anyway you know he was basically talking about the evils are like corporate finance and lawyers that's like oh good to be good to be married to uh one of those so sorry that surprises me of of like all i mean like I would have thought there's worse professions than lawyers.
00:11:11
Speaker
Yeah, but I guess if you're like a really wealthy lawyer, you probably represent all the all the bad guys. Which, and we do want Tom to be a really wealthy lawyer, unfortunately. So, you know, oh dear.
00:11:23
Speaker
But he, so this, I am going to tie this back to values. I heard this fantastic snippet. I'd never heard of it before. So he he wrote Utopia for Realists. His latest book is Moral Ambition, which is on my ah one read list. Like sounds really cool. It's basically like all of the really smart people who have been sucked into consulting and finance and stuff, like just quit your jobs and do something fucking useful.
00:11:50
Speaker
rather like the talent suck into these high payings. Yeah, yeah. Could be redeployed to solve world problems. This is the kind of narrative of the book. I like that. That sounds good. I love that too. i can't wait to read it He gave a speech at Davos in 2019.
00:12:06
Speaker
So he was there promoting his first book, Utopia for Realists. He'd done a number of sessions throughout the week where he was getting like increasingly annoyed. And then he basically went to his, because everyone's sort of talking about like philanthropy and solving the world's problems. And it's like rooms full of like billionaires.
00:12:24
Speaker
Let me read out what he said. So he went to his room and he just got so fucked off that he like wrote a little speech and waited until he was on like a recorded panel. It completely ignored what the moderator had asked him and just went on this whole like anti-wealth rampage. So let me read this out.
00:12:43
Speaker
He told his audience that people in davis the Davos talked about participation, justice, equality and transparency, but... Nobody raises the issue of tax avoidance and the rich not paying their share. It's like going to a firefighter's conference and not talking about water. And he basically...
00:13:00
Speaker
yeah He basically fucked off like every billionaire. In the world. In the world. They all go to Davos, apparently. Hope you get a nice beanie. But, you know, I think this is such a great example of someone like really living their values. and Yeah.
00:13:16
Speaker
Just being like, oh, fuck this. Yeah. telling you what's going on. So that's my digression over. What do you think about values, Annie?
Annie's Values and Career Impact
00:13:24
Speaker
I think that I am, I live a very values driven life, I think.
00:13:32
Speaker
And that's because I hate doing stuff I don't care about. but it actually took me a long time to identify what my values were and why certain things annoyed me as much as they did.
00:13:45
Speaker
And I think, you know, you said in the kind of intro to this is like, it's easier to identify what they are when actually, you know, you're like rubbing up against them.
00:13:57
Speaker
And that's certainly true for me. I think the kind of first, I don't know seven, five to seven years of work, I, you know, it was very, very ambitious and stuff. But like some things that people would do would just so would just make me like unhinged levels of like annoyed.
00:14:18
Speaker
And it was only when I first had some coaching that someone made me sit down and do a structured values exercise that was like, what you know And you've probably got the actual exercise or something, but it's like, I remember was like a huge list of words and it was like pick pick five or 10 or something.
00:14:39
Speaker
And, you know, a lot of the words resonated. So the challenge was like pick five of these and um and I think I definitely remember that like humility was one and like fairness and equality was one and um obviously like there's some sort of kind of drive things thing there maybe it's ambition but that doing that tool really helped me because then for when I got a new job or when things went wrong at work it helped me be like why am I particularly so annoyed about this thing like I wasn't annoyed about that other quite annoying thing yesterday and it is usually when something gets me really kind of g'd up it's usually that one of those kind of five major values have been kind of
00:15:29
Speaker
I don't know what you'd say, like, but it's not crossed a value, but they've been awakened or something. And I felt that something is like very unfair or very unjust or like someone has acted with like zero humility.
00:15:41
Speaker
And yeah, it also, helps me. Obviously, I think workplace values are a bit like, sometimes, you know, they're just bullshit, aren't they? But um you can interview for values. And I think when I spoke to Claire in the last in the last series, she made some really good points about workplace values and how to identify what they actually are regardless of like what's written on the wall but yeah you know if someone's if a workplace of values like resonate with one of my core five then I'm like okay that's good you know there's there's something there's something in there so anyway I mean your values are gonna make me sound like an arsehole now because I don't have those really nice other centered characteristics I'm sure one of mine was like
00:16:26
Speaker
I'm great or something like my value is I'm the best, but there was definitely, I, the the only ones I stick out always remember were humility and and equity or fairness because I had no, I had no idea that fairness mattered.
00:16:42
Speaker
Like I didn't, I wouldn't, I would not have identified that without this exercise. I just didn't, but I, it definitely does to me. Yeah, I mean, so make sure we've got a link in the show notes for anyone who wants to do an exercise, but it is a really good thing to do. I've also seen it done um through different lenses. So you have your kind of overall values, but your values might be slightly different depending on Is it your values at work or your values in your relationships or values for yourself? So like for me in the self category, I'm pretty sure I've got authenticity, joy and self-actualization.
00:17:24
Speaker
And then in my relationships, it's about connectedness and and things like that. And in work, it's about basically just being a feminist who wants women to get promoted.
00:17:35
Speaker
But, you know, I think... It's like we should start a podcast to help women get promoted or something. Specifically aimed at that specific value. Yeah. But it is, I think, such a worthwhile thing to do. i do think they also change over time.
Dynamic Nature of Personal Values
00:17:50
Speaker
i think I used to value progression more than I do now.
00:17:54
Speaker
Interesting. And I think I'm 100% confident. if I were to do this values exercise at the end of mat leave, they'll be really different again. So like, you know, just in a life transition stage, I think it's important to know that. But, you know, I think there will be anchors, like fairness will probably always be a value for you that comes up. That feels like one that won't slip. That feels really core.
00:18:18
Speaker
But yeah, I think identifying it is particularly useful. I think for me, there was a place where we can come on to the next section, which is just about like, navigating values misalignment I I did work somewhere once where i just I won't name where because that doesn't feel professional where something like I thought was unethical was happening and I raised it as unethical and no one cared and I was like well I actually can't do that like I would rather not have a job than continue to participate in
00:18:52
Speaker
in this thing that I really don't agree with. And like, is there an alternative when that happens? It's a good question. i think I guess it depends on the level of misalignment. Right.
00:19:04
Speaker
So with that, it's like huge, you know, you're like, this is a serious thing. I'm effectively like whistleblowing it. And all of you are being like, Whatever. Like, we don't care.
00:19:14
Speaker
i personally think that's kind of too big to ignore. It's like, if they really don't acknowledge it, like, at all, then, yeah, probably probably it won't last long.
00:19:27
Speaker
I've only worked one place where... My my um boundaries with the organisation and particularly the C-suite were, sorry, my values were very, very misaligned.
00:19:41
Speaker
But my values with my manager were quite aligned. Yeah, I suppose like what what is helpful in deepening your own knowledge about your values is that come equipped with a language and you can point to specific things and reasons as to why you might be reacting or or feeling triggered. And you can do something with that information if you understand it But if you don't understand it, you'll probably just feel like a piece of poo and confused and and demotivated.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah. And in fairness, I remember like when I had when I did this values exercise, I was seeing that coach because I wanted to get promoted, but there wasn't really a role to promote me into.
00:20:25
Speaker
So it was like, what's the role you want? And I didn't, the role I wanted wasn't really on offer. So then it was like, let's, let's find another role kind of thing. And yeah, I think it was, i think in that scenario, had I not been able to identify my core values. And for so for example, I thought it was really unfair that I was not being promoted because i was working so hard and I was performing really well.
00:20:50
Speaker
But from their perspective, I was not being promoted because they literally didn't know where to put me, how to promote me. It was a very small organization. to be honest, it's like quite young leaders, right? yeah And they were just kind of like, we want to, but we don't know. And then that that annoyed me more because I was like, why don't you just recognise, like, I'm great and give me everything I want.
00:21:10
Speaker
But once I'd kind of recognised that, like, fairness was this, like, very strong thing, thing I was like oh I'm reacting to this because I think it's unfair that you haven't just naturally recognized me without me asking whereas actually from your perspective you actually just haven't thought about your own org chart enough to know how to do this and then you know and then I did get promoted and it was completely fine but yeah I think that I wouldn't have been able to do that basically without without that awareness
00:21:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think it it becomes a really good to communicate and understand and action and kind of make the change that that you're looking for. i wonder actually whether when we're talking about values, it's is sort of much harder when when there's a sort of grey area of whether you're not sure if something is kind of crossing your values or let's call it a soft misalignment. So I, this one I can say, i felt like when I worked at Condé Nast, like it was a cool job in in a cool organisation with cool creative people. But I ended up leaving just because I was like, I don't want to work just to make a rich family richer.
00:22:29
Speaker
That, you know, and like there was nothing sort of wrong per se with with that organization or that role but that just that wasn't sufficiently motivating for me alongside all the other things to make it feel like it was worth ah worthwhile endeavor and that's like I've basically been in Goldilocks porridge of media organisations and I've i've got to got to the right temperature of porridge at the BBC where, you know, the work that I do funds journalism overseas that I think is the right kind of journalism.
00:23:04
Speaker
And that kind of is what I hold onto as my anchor point for my job now, even though if, you know, you were to look at it with slightly less thoughtful eyes, you could just like, you sell advertising, which is true. Yeah.
00:23:16
Speaker
but you can do both but you can do both you can do both exactly and i think it's yeah it's not just everything's got depth right it's not just like as simple as yeah you sell advertising and what's that it's like yeah who who are you earning money for what are you doing what is the end goal of like all of this capitalism basically are we joining rookers bandwagon ah Indeed.
00:23:38
Speaker
and Okay, let's talk about and and let's talk about something that I think we will both probably have the same view on, but values from a workplace perspective.
Superficial Workplace Values
00:23:49
Speaker
Organizations that add values. Is it important? Is it meaningful? Is it bullshit? Yeah. Yeah, look, I think it's mostly bullshit. I think it can be really, truly meaningful.
00:24:01
Speaker
I think it's just all about how they are implemented and lived every day. So I won't use where I currently work because i actually am not sure I know all of the values.
00:24:15
Speaker
So that's, guess that's that. I know one of them is we care or or we care very deeply. And actually I do think that one is really lived like throughout the organization in a way that you sort of can feel, but I can't remember the others. So I won't talk about that.
00:24:30
Speaker
I think that in the tech world, it's like part of like how you start your startup is to like define your values. And it's kind of, the bullshit law and you know it was when I yeah it's when I was talking to Claire it's like actually that's not you can do that at the start but that is fucking pointless because you don't know who's going to work for you you don't know what's going to happen you don't know what you're going to go through and ultimately what she said which I agree with is like workplace values are actually how you deliver things day to day it's like how the work gets done
00:25:05
Speaker
How do you treat each other when the work is being done? It's not like, I don't know if you can set values in the way that tech startups kind of want to. of Like, we will only do this.
00:25:19
Speaker
Yeah, i I can't say that I can recall... any of the values of any places I've ever worked, including my current employer. But to be fair, I'm on like month seven of mat leave. So yeah, they'll come me that one, but I can't remember any of them.
00:25:36
Speaker
I don't tend to feel like this work ends up being particularly impactful. if I'm being really honest, and I'm so so sorry to the HR professionals listening.
00:25:47
Speaker
And if anyone does know how to do it well, like genuinely, I'm so ready to hear it. But just in the places where I've worked, I can't say that I've ever felt the values or felt a change.
00:25:57
Speaker
I wonder like... Am I conflating values with culture? I'm not sure.
Company Values vs. Culture
00:26:02
Speaker
Like culture, you can get a sense of, right? Like culture kind of happens irrespective of what you put on the poster, almost like its own beast. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:26:12
Speaker
For sure. And it's moving, moving picture. Yeah, and I feel like I have, for the last at least like two or three jobs, definitely chosen employers based on culture, for sure. Culture is super important to me. But I don't know that any of them have done values work that I've recognised. Or maybe it's so nuanced that I've never seen it.
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah. That's kind of funny as a thought. The value of work has been so nuanced that we actually must not let our employees know that this work has even happened. It's so subtle in the atmosphere of our air conditioning. Yeah, so like I ah can't say hand on heart that this has ever felt meaningful. Or I mean, I've also...
00:26:58
Speaker
observed in other places not where I've worked where values get basically referred to as a backstop when something bad yeah yeah no that that definitely that definitely happens that's happened everywhere I worked those types of things tend to be the only only time I ever see them come up so like art are they just a backstop? Like, or does that sort of soften or or provide more context or a narrative? Like am sort of not overwhelmingly convinced about values, I guess, in the workplace beyond like whatever a basic human social contract values, like respect someone, don't harm someone, you know, listen, you have two ears and one mouth, like, like,
00:27:38
Speaker
well probably imagine if that was on the wall listen you have two ears and one mouth like imagine if you walked into a workplace and that was that was there don't know if i'd actually be like completely put off or like actually quite love that shut up listen Yeah.
00:28:01
Speaker
So other, other ways I have seen values be used in, in much more companies is like we interviewed ah lots of the places I work, we interviewed on values. There's a values interview as very structured values.
00:28:13
Speaker
i am perform I am, currently performance managed on the values, which interesting. Yeah. So ah I recently went through a performance review cycle and I was quite surprised that it was actually all values based.
00:28:26
Speaker
And I yeah and he was like, I don't think I'm a generalist, so I don't think I have a hugely high spike in a certain skill. But I was like, to not comment on skill whatsoever in in this is slightly concerning to me. That's kind of wild.
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's got and I guess like the intention was probably to like hit on skills through like good values based feedback. But I was like, that doesn't work for me because I actually, when I'm giving the feedback, I do need space to talk about their functional expertise because they might be fucking brilliant, but an absolute.
00:29:06
Speaker
And honestly, I also just like feel like the whole our workplace is our family thing. which feels like a sort of extrapolation of what you just said. Colleagues, we don't, I totally agree with you. Like we don't have to see eye to eye as long as we're sort of treating each other nice enough.
00:29:24
Speaker
Yeah. With respect. Yeah. yeah I think one thing on just last point on workplace values, I would say they also, it feels like they had this like moment.
00:29:35
Speaker
And that moment was when, you know, it was like five to 10 years ago when it was really like, Oh my God, like what are their values? Have you asked them about their values? And like, and now they're, ah now Now it almost feels like a luxury as the economy collapses and like, you know, things have kind of never been harder maybe for businesses.
00:29:57
Speaker
It kind of feels very luxury to like go on an offsite and talk about your values being lived. So I think it's also, it's like boom time thinking.
00:30:08
Speaker
you know I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. It's, um you don't want to be putting a long agenda about values together when people have been made redundant. Exactly. Yeah, I ah totally agree. I also think like there's there's like you can talk about values if you want and you can put them on a little PDF and put them on your website and whatever. But when push comes to shove, like lots of companies have taken like absolutely abhorrent stances on like D and I stuff because of Trump. And you're like, where are your values now? Yeah.
00:30:41
Speaker
Like that says everything that you need to know about it. And like, you can say whatever you want, but if you're doing something totally different, then it's it's not worth the paper it's written on. Totally agree.
00:30:52
Speaker
Could not agree more.
Incorporating Personal Values at Work
00:30:53
Speaker
Okay. so how do you show your values day to day in your work? I've sort of forgotten how to work if I'm thinking honest.
00:31:03
Speaker
yeah How do I show my values? ah So i if I go back to like what my values are and what's important to me, like, There will be, when you work with me closely, like joy in the workplace. Like the I, for me, it's so important that i enjoy my time together. I have joy with my colleagues.
00:31:22
Speaker
Even if you're doing the world's most boring project, it will still be fun to do yeah um like that's actually an important part of like I just think we should like what the fuck are we here for if we're not enjoying it so I like that that's what it will feel like to be like on a project with me like we're on the same team it's gonna be great vibes and if it's not great vibes then we'll make it great vibes you know you want to be in the club yeah have a nice time I think that really comes through but I also think you know I really like independence is one of my values and so as a leader I also want to allow
00:31:58
Speaker
my team to have independence in doing what they're doing. And, you know, that can manifest as not micromanaging. Treat yourself. Great leadership skill. But, like, I will let people kind of go off and do their things and discover what they need to discover by themselves and then come back and, like, we'll talk about it. But I think it's just quite important for people to own their journey and exploration and that kind of stuff.
00:32:21
Speaker
What about you? Yeah, it's interesting. I think there's there's something about like laughing through pain that I think like to choose to work somewhere that isn't established, it's like a risk in itself, which brings like a lot of exciting, fun stuff. But there are always like a lot of kind of really hard things and yeah I think that I used to take those like really hard and like really seriously whereas now I'm I see that as like part of the journey so I think that like I always try and like bring that like sense of humor but particularly when things are terrible it's like that that I think is something that I like really bring to work and bring to like leadership as as just like part of who I am like
00:33:11
Speaker
I like to think that if something's unfair, I like call it out. And if someone is trying to figure out if something unfair is happening and they ask for my opinion or I notice that they're struggling, that I try and like help. So yeah, I think one of my other values is like authenticity, which I think you said is one of yours.
00:33:31
Speaker
And I think that people that work with me, they really do know, like not in an overshare way, but they like do know who I am. It's like they get full Annie. They don't get like a polished.
00:33:43
Speaker
They don't get a mask. if They don't get a mask. They get like, you know, they get like who I am. and I just couldn't do it any other way because I just find all of the nonsense just so fucking Do you know what I mean? It's like, I'm not going to pretend that I'm the best at calculations in my head, like mental maths in a meeting.
00:34:03
Speaker
I'm just going to look at someone else and be like, yeah, I know that number's bad, but do I know how bad in my head? No, there's other people for that. And there's honestly, there's a spread for it. Yeah, it's a spreadsheet. I'll just put it into Google.
00:34:16
Speaker
I'll just put it into my Google Sheets. and I'll figure out. Like, that's not to me what intelligence is. But like, and I don't even know why I started to talk about mental maths. But I don't know. I think, yeah, show a lot of self-awareness. I hope a show a lot of so self-awareness. so I don't pretend to be good at things I'm not because it makes me uncomfortable, I think is a waste of time.
00:34:34
Speaker
And also, usually there are people in a room that are much better than you some of the things. And cool, let them be great. Like, you don't have to be good at everything.
00:34:45
Speaker
Let them. Oh, it's a full circle moment back to previous episode. I mean, I also think, like, you and I live our values in doing this podcast, right? Like, we we yeah are just trying to help other people in a way that feels open and honest and i was going to say sharing our dirty laundry but I actually mean airing yeah i think our dirty laundry would be very different type that would be quite strange yeah yeah yeah very different type of content but that's what you get when we have a glass of wine and record at 9pm on a Thursday night because we do something we love because it aligns with our values but you know same with same with coaching as well like It's such a great way for me to feel connected to someone and to kind of help them and be be part of their growth journey. And that's that's why I did the course this year.
00:35:29
Speaker
It's good to good to remind myself of that when I have deadlines leaving, but it is an absolute joy. Okay, I think we've covered it. Too long, didn't listen.
Conclusion and Encouragement to Explore Values
00:35:40
Speaker
So values are the things that kind of guide your personal actions.
00:35:47
Speaker
And you can do exercises that are structured and really like simple that help you identify what your values are. that can be a huge benefit to how you communicate and understand yourself and solve problems in the workplace. So I think we would probably say to you that we both highly recommend doing a values exercise if you don't feel like you know your values.
00:36:13
Speaker
We think it's very normal to identify your values when they're kind of something rubs up against them, maybe something misaligns with them. And we would say workplace values often bullshit.
00:36:28
Speaker
Is where we landed? think so. I think so. And I'm so sorry to anyone whose job that is who's listening. ah We'd love to see version of it. We really would.
00:36:39
Speaker
And it's all just opinions, isn't it? It's all just opinions. It's all just opinions. I think I just hold lightly the concept of workplace values. Yeah, I used to put a lot more weight on them, but now they honestly do feel luxurious.
00:36:54
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Thanks for joining us today. As always, if something in today's es episode resonated with you spread the magic. Share it with a friend, post on your socials, or leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform.
00:37:07
Speaker
That is how the carbon grows. Until next time.