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S2, E2 The Career Coven: Pregnancy at Work with Alice Pelton
121 Plays4 months ago
In this week’s episode of the Career Coven, Bec interviews Alice Pelton who is the founder and CEO of the Lowdown. The Lowdown is a health platform - where women can research their health choices (used by over 2 million women per year). Alice and Bec have an honest conversation about what it’s really like being pregnant at work, and being a leader. Bec felt that there were lots of parts of becoming pregnant which were not explained to her at all, and both Bec and Annie feel that pregnancy at work is something that is not openly discussed. We want to give a voice to some of what people go through whilst pregnant.
Quote of the episode — “Women are fucking amazing actually.”
A trigger warning for this episode - we do cover the topic of miscarriage and ectopic pregnancy. We know that some people will find this content upsetting, so we wanted to be up front about that. But as so many women will experience pregnancy loss on the journey to parenthood, we wanted to keep this information in.
This episode covers:
- Getting pregnant whilst working
- The misinformation women are told about pregnancy
- Coping with the nausea
- How your hormones change in pregnancy, and their impact on you
- The pressure to perform at your best, whilst pregnant
- The importance of naps
- How and when to tell people
- When you should go on mat leave
- Returning to work (don’t come back first week of Jan)
- How you prioritise better when you’re a parent
- Childcare once you’re coming back to work
And most importantly - how amazingly worth it the journey to being pregnant is. Alice provides a lot of tips about what she would do differently next time she was pregnant. Gold-dust!
Enjoying this content? Please rate and subscribe on your preferred platform, and let us know what you think! hello@careercoven.com
Content & recommendations from this episode:
- Matrescence: On the Metamorphosis of Pregnancy, Childbirth and Motherhood - Lucy Jones
- The Lowdown
- Alice’s Substack
- Bubble - an app for booking nannies and childcare
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Topic Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello everyone, this is Annie here, one half of Beck and Annie from The Career Coven and this week's episode does not feature me because it is about something that I have no real context on and um therefore don't feel like I could authentically speak about but it is a topic that both Beck and I feel is incredibly important to address on a podcast about progressing your career and um particularly important for women as it's something some of us go through um and many of us try to go through and is still not spoken about that much and that is getting pregnant and being pregnant at work.
Guest Introductions and Initial Experiences
00:00:51
Speaker
So to allow for an authentic and moving conversation, I put two of my favorite human beings together. One is Beck, obviously, and the other is Alice Pelton, who is the CEO and founder of The Lowdown. I have just worked with Alice for a full year and I backfilled her while she had her first son. So I covered her maternity leave and she is the single most kind of inspirational, strong woman. I know she is an incredible leader and a um yeah, really a
00:01:32
Speaker
a groundbreaking thought leader within the space of women's health. But what I love the most about Alice is how authentically she talks about her human experiences and her experiences of being a leader and being a founder of a small tech business. And um one of those experiences is trying to get pregnant and being pregnant whilst running a team and leading, you know, leading an organization.
00:02:00
Speaker
And spoiler alert for anyone who who didn't know, Beck is also currently pregnant and she has been um pregnant throughout the recording of this podcast, which is very exciting.
Trigger Warning and Personal Journeys
00:02:13
Speaker
So without further ado, I'm going to let you listen to a moving, beautiful conversation between two extraordinary women about what it's like to be pregnant and work throughout pregnancy and just to trigger warning this does cover um pregnancy loss so if that is something that you find really difficult to listen to or or think about then this episode might be worth giving a miss
00:02:47
Speaker
But as so many of us experience that as part of the journey to pregnancy and parenthood, we wanted to keep that included in this episode. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you laugh. I hope you cry. I certainly did. Annie over and out. Okay. Hi, Alice. It's great to have you here.
00:03:14
Speaker
um I've heard so much about you so it's such a pleasure to actually be able to meet you and talk under this, under this guise. Why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners and tell us a bit about you and how you know Annie. Hi Rebecca, yeah thanks so much for having me. and I know Annie because I think back in sort of 2019 or 2020 a lot of people kept telling Annie and I that were very similar and so I think I went for a drink with her and she was ah ah just completed a very successful fundraise for her startup and I was in a very difficult fundraise for mine and I just thought she was brilliant and we've stayed in touch and ah my startup is called The Lowdown. It's a women's health research platform visited by over 2 million women a year and ah we work with um
00:04:11
Speaker
innovators and people in the life sciences space to really help give them an insight into what women want when it comes to their health. I set up the platform because I had tons of problems with my contraception. I also have endometriosis. I also had a difficult journey to conceiving my first son. And I was really frustrated by the lack of of data that there is obviously out there in women's health and wanted to do something to help change that.
Balancing Pregnancy and Career
00:04:37
Speaker
So on our platform, thousands of women have shared their experiences with these types of products and conditions. And we've collected a really unique real world ah data set. So yeah, and and the reason Annie is particularly top of mind is um when I had my son last year, Annie came in and and run run the lowdown for me as an interim CEO. ah So lots of really interesting learnings about pregnancy, and birth, and then bringing someone in to to run your company.
00:05:06
Speaker
I mean, that that's why we're here. I'm very happy to hear that you found the healthy birth of your son. I think I've already revealed to the listeners that I'm pregnant. and I am six months pregnant currently on a hottest day of the year, talking to the lovely Alice. um So I'm actually also really here to learn from you about how you coped with your pregnancy in the workplace. I have found it such a wild journey. um I mean, should we start with just sort of getting pregnant or should we go through it?
00:05:38
Speaker
in order. Yeah I love that. Yeah so getting pregnant is a whole journey in itself and I would actually say that work was a brilliant distraction to me during this time because um if you if it takes a little bit longer or you ah feel really anxious about it or you find the two week wait which is um the kind of amount of time that you have between ovulating and waiting for your period to come or finding out you're pregnant If you find the the waiting around which there is a lot of when you're trying to conceive really difficult work I found a brilliant distraction and a really good thing to kind of get my head into every day and take my mind off it. I wouldn't say it was good in a way that I worked in women's health because I was talking about these topics a lot but I think it was good to just have a something else going on in my life during that period.
00:06:31
Speaker
and And I unfortunately ah had a very early ectopic pregnancy. I didn't even know I was pregnant at the time and it was all very confusing and strange and and shocking. and And I think work really helped me during that time actually, give me another focus and and and something to kind of come back to and think about. and So yeah, it was difficult. ah My team were incredible. and My investors were incredible. I told them quite openly about it. um But I would definitely say it's not always plain sailing, not to scare people. It's not always plain sailing. If you're if you're trying to get pregnant, if you're finding it hard, you are not alone. It is a very can be a really stressful time. How was your experience, if you don't mind me asking?
00:07:19
Speaker
but No, not at all. um ah So interestingly, and you know, very luckily, I ah basically had no issues, um ah which I i feel um very privileged to have sort of won the fertility lottery, and, and, and sort of use the apps and worked out the maths on the days, quite, quite steep learning curve, when you decide that you want to get pregnant, and then you're like,
00:07:45
Speaker
What the hell is this? It's a whole separate world, which I just hadn't ever really thought about that much, um not working in women's health. But it was really straightforward. But I remember at the start of the process, um being like this, we had kind of set in our mind that 2024 was the year that we would start trying.
00:08:10
Speaker
And in my mind that i I had basically like the whole year before I would get pregnant and I basically got pregnant in February. um So ah i it's it's quite a strange feeling when you are so out of control.
00:08:25
Speaker
of of what's happening with your body. And I think that is my overriding um reflection on being pregnant is I feel completely out of control. yeah And that's quite a strange feeling um up for someone who's a controlled freak. It's its it's it's all ah really genuinely feel like it's up to nature and yeah ah wild.
Reality vs. Expectations of Pregnancy
00:08:46
Speaker
Absolutely. It is such, I think my my general thought on all of this is to completely reset your expectations on time it may take, it may be much shorter or much longer than you think, on how it's going to feel when you find out you're pregnant, if you do find out you're pregnant, on how productive you may be, just on everything. it's i can I look back at last year, which I was pregnant from January to September, and the whole thing is like a bubble, um a very intense bubble. ah so So many things I can't wait to talk about today.
00:09:25
Speaker
i um I just started a book which I wish I had finished before we'd recorded this because I'm sure there's lots in it but it's called Mattressence by Lucy Jones and you're nodding like you might have read it or heard of it. I haven't but about every millennial friend of mine has sent me a photo of it and said you've got to read this. so the The opening line is like I've been hoodwinked. Everything I know about pregnancy is not a reflection of what pregnancy is actually like which I feel like genuinely is the most honest review I've read of pregnancy that I feel like every bit of a narrative around getting pregnant and being pregnant and all of the things that come with that are genuine if you feel quite misinformed.
00:10:05
Speaker
Um, uh, and I, and I can't really work out why, but I wonder if part of it's you've had the child and then you sort of forget how horrible pregnancy is. Although I'm quite certain I'm not going to forget how horrible this is, but, um, yeah it feels, it feels really different to the expectations. Was it what you expected? No, I, uh, the nausea, um, I would say, uh,
00:10:35
Speaker
it's like very mentally tough to feel constantly sick as I'm sure you know very well ah and it just grates you down, it wears you down after weeks and months and you know um so that was incredibly difficult.
00:10:51
Speaker
And I, you know, say my partner would go and get drunk on a night out and be hung over the next day. um And he would be, you know, staggering around the house feeling terrible. And I'd say, imagine feeling like you feel, but all the time, you know, like all the time.
00:11:07
Speaker
And he was just like, I actually don't know how you do this. You know, it is so hard. um So the nausea was much, much worse. The general anxiety of all the changes that are going on in your life and are about to happen, you feel like you're constantly not really in the present because you're just thinking about what will happen after the baby is born or the birth.
00:11:27
Speaker
So I didn't feel like I was fully present in my life during that period, really. I was just sort of anxious about how I was going to leave the company, you know, anxious about the birth, anxious about lots of things. And ah it was difficult, really, really difficult to enjoy life for what it was. i Yeah, I agree. You're sort of in this liminal state where you're you're not you you're not not having a baby um yeah ah but you haven't got the baby and you've you're sort of living this life where you have um ah you and yourself um and you're also your baby inside of you to look after and then you start going through, I find it really difficult to even think about anything that's gonna happen in the next three months because I'm so, you get so deadline focused on when the baby's gonna arrive and it's genuinely quite a fascinating experience
00:12:20
Speaker
Um, I, I suppose what I didn't, um, expect going into it is also considering you're going through these like physical changes, but I really underestimated like the, the sort of, I guess neurobiological changes that are also going on at the same time about what you feel like doing. I spontaneously cried quite a lot. out Yeah. Oh, that's fine.
00:12:46
Speaker
I once cried because Kieran and my partner didn't make me a salad and he was like, what is wrong with you? And then I also once cried on the phone to one of my investors and I was really embarrassed.
00:12:59
Speaker
um And she was, she just completely normalized. She was like, I don't be, this is totally normal. You know, she was like, I cried about everything, you know? But I think what we underestimate, and now I understand looking back, is if you think that a human comes out of you and they are made of like blood and flesh and bones, just think of the energy and hormones that go into building that inside you. It is not to be underestimated.
00:13:28
Speaker
It's wild. You know what I mean? You're literally growing like bones in your body, so nothing that's normal for you may mean normal. And I think my first kind of advice is, yeah, it's not a normal version of you sometimes. Some women feel completely normal, some don't at all and the if you look at the hormone chart ah as you go through pregnancy it is like I laugh because sometimes I get really bad PMS and I used to say oh I can't wait till I'm pregnant because I won't have PMS because I won't have a period.
00:14:05
Speaker
pop pa po Did I think, Rebecca, that the ah hormone graft was anywhere what it is, you know, compared to PMS, it is like astronomical levels of progestogen and oestrogen and all these other relaxing and everything's in your body that you just feel very different and it can be a real roller coaster. So yeah, I think my first piece of advice is when people say you you are growing a human, like you are growing a human, just don't like ignore that.
00:14:37
Speaker
Yeah, i i I feel like i my my expectation of being pregnant was that I was like, I'll be a bit tired. I'll want some oat cakes. I'll get a cute bump. And then I'll just go off on that leave when actually you have this incredible transformation happening in your body. And at the same time,
00:14:58
Speaker
You're just, um I mean, I wanted to be like, pregnant women can do anything. I want to fight those stereotypes, that is bullshit. And then when we get to it, I'm like, wow, I can do almost nothing. And that's very difficult to reconcile as a career person when you're also meant to be at work at the same time and sort of consistently delivering. How was that for you for the lowdown? Yeah, really, really hard. I think a constant feeling of guilt, like I wasn't doing enough.
00:15:28
Speaker
I had quite bad brain fog through various stages where I just could not think. I could not get my head around very basic things. I um was exhausted and often had to go and have naps in the day, which I've never had in my life. um There was probably only about a six to eight we week period in my second trimester where I didn't need to nap.
00:15:53
Speaker
um i yeah i I found To be honest, functioning was incredibly hard. um And I really do agree.
Practical Tips for Managing Pregnancy
00:16:05
Speaker
um And I think the pressure, especially in a startup environment when you are running out of money and time all the time, ah is so much bigger on you and that feeling of pressure because you know you've got a deadline in which to to hand over the business or to step away from the business. that just you know You don't know when that date will be.
00:16:27
Speaker
you don't know, there's a lot of ambiguity about your business. And we were going through quite a kind of difficult time last year, we'd figured out a few things that weren't working. And I definitely didn't feel like I made decisions quick enough or as effectively enough as I should normally do. um Yeah, it was pretty, pretty miserable. And to anyone listening to this who's been through something, I have like that or you know,
00:16:54
Speaker
wherever they are in their career or their business, I just have so much empathy for you. It's a really, really hard time. um Maybe I should stop moaning and maybe talk about some practical things that helped maybe. yeah ah But i think it's I also think it's helpful to just share the bits that have been openly difficult because I think some people don't really give enough credit to that.
00:17:16
Speaker
ah you know that there is a Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly grateful and excited to be pregnant. For me, there is a whole bit of the narrative that was totally missing for me going into this. yeah I wish I had a slightly more realistic view of yeah going into it because then I probably would have been kinder to myself about being less effective. and like it's like It's about expectation setting. um So, you know, I've written a list of things that if I'm lucky enough to get pregnant again,
00:17:49
Speaker
I would do. And at the top of the list is I found weeks seven to nine incredibly difficult. I was basically just felt so sick I couldn't function. Why was I working for those two weeks? You know, really do I need to work for that fortnight? No. Like, why am I stressing myself out? The stress made the nausea worse, the tiredness, everything just is like a sucks, you know, it can kind of feed off each other. ah Next time I'll be like,
00:18:17
Speaker
guys, I'm sorry, I'm going to be useless. I'm checking out for two weeks, you know, sick leave, annual leave, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. You know, I just need to step away and come back. Hopefully once, you know, the percenter has started to take over. Um, and then naps, um, I was a real, I felt really guilty having naps in the day, but now then I was just like, look, you either have a nap and then you're able to maybe do an hour or two more.
00:18:44
Speaker
or you don't, and then you can't do anything. So you've sort of got to, it's like the ah ROI of the nap, you've got to think about, you know, okay, if I do 60 to 90 minutes lying down, then I've maybe got another hour before I get too tired, where I could do something. Yeah, I mean, i like yesterday, I had to crack out a nap between meetings, but then like, was rejuvenated enough to finish work and get what I wanted to get done. actually a bit later, but I was actually much more capable of doing that. I think always take the nap if you need the nap. I mean, sometimes it's just not optional. yeah um I got called out in a meeting today and someone said, are you feeling okay? And I was like, to be honest, I just need a nap. I just need 10 minutes. Yeah. my highest coast Yeah. Um, I definitely adapted to my best and worst times of day. So, you know,
00:19:38
Speaker
I remember at the start, my mornings were terrible and my afternoons were better and then it actually swapped. And, you know, I noticed, um, the nausea and the tiredness would hit me at different points. So just trying to adapt, um, moving meetings, if you can, with team members, you know, people can understand, people can understand, we can talk about colleagues in a second, but you know, there are really small things you can do and you can adapt to whilst you're getting used to effectively for a lot of people.
00:20:05
Speaker
being ill for nine months. know like yeah It's not an illness, but, you know, if if you had a colleague who was coming in saying, I feel constantly sick, I'm exhausted, I can't stay awake, I can't eat, I can't, you know, stop crying, they would probably be signed off work. But yeah, you'd be like, go to the jet pee, you're having a crisis. Exactly. yeah but And I agree with you, you then feel all these mixed feelings that you are sort of not being that spearhead pregnant person who's you know cheerleading from the front and doing everything. So you you sort of guilt you beat yourself up that you're not being this high functioning pregnant person, um which makes it worse. So yeah next time, much lower expectations. I kind of think I'd know which weeks I'd take off. um I think I would better plan.
00:20:57
Speaker
I remember I had a big decision to make about whether I sold my flat at the time. And I wish I just made that a couple of weeks before, because as I got more ill and sick, I couldn't think. And you know just things like that, that I should just put to bed before. If I could, I could put them to bed before. Then the nausea really kicked in. You raised such a good point there. So we're we're trying to sell our flat and buy a new place at the same time. And this is a whole separate different bit of stress that's happening.
00:21:27
Speaker
and parallel to like your body and work and all this kind of other shit. And you're like, there is so much going on. It's not just having a baby, it's like a whole transformation of life. Yeah. And often people are doing like house renovations or moving or buying or, you know, there's always some other like thread that's happening like this that can really stress you out again, because of the timelines and your anxiety may be higher and all all of this. So, so yeah, definitely trying to compartmentalise or get really good, get like your partner or your friends to help you. ah may I just sat down with my partner and was like, can you work out if I should sell my
Communicating Pregnancy at Work
00:22:07
Speaker
flat or not? Because I cannot even like figure out the like sums in a spreadsheet and he just did it for me, you know, and it's such a simple thing, but it was stressing me out and I just couldn't think about it on my own.
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, definitely totally agree. My partner has been amazing at kind of outsourcing just entire problems, entire problems to deal with. um I wanted to ask you, um what I guess one of the, when when you're getting pregnant,
00:22:36
Speaker
You spend those really early days wondering, um rightly or wrongly so, whether you should be telling people, whether you tell work for you. It would be your investor for me. It was when I tell my manager or when I notify work. Can you talk me through a bit of your thinking around that? Yeah, I had a slightly different experience um because i when I found out I'd have an ectopic pregnancy and and and and then a miscarriage, I am hadn't told anyone we were trying. And then what I found was when I told my mum, you know, and said, mum, you know, I'm in hospital or whatever. It was such a shock that because she didn't think we were trying. So she sort of needed 24 hours to get over the news that we were trying before she could sort of really kick into our now I can support you in the fact you've had a miscarriage. And so what I learned was that there is everyone could do their own thing. I'm not here to preach, but
00:23:32
Speaker
there is a benefit to telling people you're trying because then when if and when something does happen for better or for worse, people I felt could be there more for me at that moment. And so we sort of did the rounds of telling everyone the bad news. So then everyone knew we were trying. So then, you know, by the time it was good news, I actually rang my mum, you know, I think the day I was due to, you know, probably the day before I missed my periods and said, because I was so anxious it would happen again.
00:24:01
Speaker
And I really wanted her to be there for me and you know to ah support me through that. So I think I'd already told some of my investors about my topic pregnancy. So they sort of knew and we were trying. And then when I told them the good news, it wasn't really a big deal. you know this sort of We'd already talked about the fact that that was a journey I was on. um I told my team quite early on because it was impossible to hide.
00:24:27
Speaker
Um, and I personally felt like it would have taken me more energy and stress to hide it than it, you know, than I wanted to. And I think I was about eight weeks when I told them. I, you know, it was very obvious. I was much less present online. I was, you know, napping or throwing. You just feel like a bag of shit. Yeah. like I was like, hide that yeah. And I also didn't want anyone in the team to think it was something they'd done wrong or, you know, or misinterpreted as me being cold with them.
00:24:54
Speaker
And I, you know, I'm conscious of their feelings and I didn't want that to happen. So I wanted to just sort of say, you know, by the way, guys, super early, I'm really anxious. I'm worried it's, you know, having lots of extra scans and, you know, I'd gone to the early pregnancy unit and everything. and But I just, I needed to just tell people for me and it was really good. Cause then I felt supported in my team. How did you think about it?
00:25:18
Speaker
I mean, a lot of that resonated with me. And and and firstly, I think um it's worth just acknowledging for you that going through that process of loss, even if you weren't sort of um ah aware of it before, and it was that early, I think is still quite an ah important emotional bit to acknowledge as part of this, as well as you still having all of those hormones and and things going through. um I took a similar view to you that we told anyone who we would want to have support us through a potential loss basically as soon as we saw them. um ah Because I was like, if i'm if i if I do go through a loss or experience a loss, I expect you to support me through that. I'm not just um not going through that alone. um
00:26:06
Speaker
for me, a little bit different in the um ah work has I have less of a kind of close relationship, um as it sounds like you do with yeah and your investors in in the kind of corporate environment. So um ah for me, the consideration around ah when to tell work, I mean, legally, in the UK, you don't have to tell work until I think 15 weeks before you're due, yeah um which is which is kind of late, um ah I think, but um I didn't really have a choice because I started showing like epically quite early um to the point that um when I'd finally sort of said, I'm pregnant, someone came up to me and was like, im I thought this a month ago. And I was like, yeah, I know. She left it a bit long. But I still I think for work wanted to wait until um I'd passed that sort of 12 week yeah mark because
00:27:05
Speaker
I wouldn't necessarily expect a load of emotional support from a wider network of work for me. um I would obviously probably want some time off and I would tell my line manager that. but um I wouldn't rely on my sort of broader ecosystem of colleagues to to to kind of ah give me a hug. That being said, i ah like the first 12 weeks are pretty stressful at just being like, are you alive?
Coping with Pregnancy Anxiety
00:27:31
Speaker
yeah Are you alive are still alive? yeah um yeah and I think that that isn't to be underestimated. Actually, Annie sent me
00:27:40
Speaker
um one of your sub stacks which had an amazing link in which I looked at like basically every day which was the the reassure me link of like statistically how likely is your baby going to be at surviving and it it was really good yeah I love that I basically my memories of first semester were sitting in the bath watching Love Island every night um not socialising, not going out, not really, you know, talking to anyone, um and just looking at, they call it like the miscarriage odds analyser. And it's this brilliant website where they've worked out like the percentage chance of a continuation of pregnancy, literally, I think by the day, based on your age, your BMI, you know, various other factors, that kind of data, I would just lap up along the wide
00:28:29
Speaker
crawling through forums and the internet to try and find any information about how you feel at certain stages and what did you think when you know just oh you're just you're just googling things all the time um you're just yeah you're in a kind of information swallowing hole of I felt ah that at that start. And yeah, the anxiety is huge. I on honestly don't really feel like we properly accepted we were pregnant until like the 20 week scan. ah wow Yeah, I don't really feel like I properly so sort of really accepted it. And then after then, you know, Kieran, I could see sort of, I sort of said to him, right, okay, I think this might actually be happening now. And that's often one early miscarriage, you know,
00:29:22
Speaker
God knows how women get through this, you know, with multiple miscarriages or complications, like the uncertainty can be really, really high. So yeah, it's difficult and the stress of that can kind of weigh over you quite a lot, can't it? Yeah, and I think also miscarriage is just so common. um um So common and like also what a horrific thing to go through and i My heart really goes out to people who go through those experiences and still just sort of get up, go to work. lawyer but Really nothing has happened when actually an enormous amount has happened. and and that
00:30:00
Speaker
you know, for so many people who struggle with fertility, I just can't fathom going through that over and over again, um ah for such a long period of time, because that must just be so difficult. And so, um I mean, Elizabeth Day speaks quite a lot about this. And I think she covers she covers it really beautifully um about her journey. But I've also got lots of friends who are on similar paths and and doing their best and really sort of hanging hope. And I think that's so admirable of them to just ah Keep going.
Career Ambitions vs. Family Life
00:30:29
Speaker
Yeah throughout that. Yeah Okay, so during your pregnancy you're sort of 20 weeks You feel like you're you can see the baby's coming You're feeling motivated. Tell me about how this all of this journey intersects with how you think about your career at this point. Mmm Yeah, I
00:30:55
Speaker
um
00:30:57
Speaker
actually started to feel very envious of people in corporate jobs or normal jobs as I call them because I'd chosen ah an abnormal but very difficult path not saying that corporate isn't difficult but I'd sort of i I really felt a lot of frustration with myself I was like why did you do your own business you know why have you done this now and It's a totally different ballgame. You've gone, you always like doing hard things, but you've really picked the hard route here. You know, solo female founder running a pre-product market fit women's health startup in the UK, you know, like tick all the boxes for difficult. Um, and I, so I felt a lot of frustration and a lot of implied not
00:31:48
Speaker
that that a lot of that implied that I wasn't it wasn't flexible and I wouldn't be able to make it work and yeah and I really struggled with that um and but I knew deep down by the way that you know not no job or career for me was ever going to be more important than starting a family and you know I didn't want to look back I also had the perspective that I definitely wanted to have a child and I didn't want to look back in five, 10, 15 years and think you didn't do that because of work and you know really regret that. So I knew that it was definitely what I wanted, but I was struggling with the decisions I'd made. I just felt very stressed about the whole thing. um I'm very scared of about how I would make it work when the baby arrived and things like that.
00:32:35
Speaker
how did you How did you get yourself through that process? I actually had a bit of therapy. I have a fantastic coach who's also a female founder with you know who had had a baby. I spoke to a bunch of founders who were mums and I had a lot of calls with people when I had the energy or sent them voice notes and was just like, how did you feel about this? What did you do? And I just sort of almost like lapped up information from other people in my situation to normalise how I was feeling, get tips from them,
00:33:05
Speaker
You know, I spoke to a woman called Alice Bentec, who started Entrepreneur First, which is an accelerator that we went on. And just hearing her, she said to me, oh, I haven't worked a five day week since, you know, my baby or babies were born.
00:33:20
Speaker
ah you know I always have Wednesdays off and it's such a simple thing but to hear someone who and I don't know if she's still doing that now but just to hear someone say with confidence that they they want to do that for them and their family and their and and their startup or their scale up is fine was like such a refreshing thing to hear um and I spoke to all sorts of founders you know from ones that had two weeks off to ones that had a year off you know just like Canvas the world far and wide And that made me feel better. um And then I ah also obviously decided that I needed to get someone in to run the company so I could properly take some time off. And that's where I you know decided to bring Annie in.
The Emotional Transition to Parenthood
00:34:03
Speaker
So it was definitely very difficult. But I do think speaking to other people is always helpful in that situation. I think that's that's such a ri like reassuring and and lovely approach to be able to connect with people in a way that
00:34:19
Speaker
helps you widen your lens on on kind of the art of the possible. I think one of the one of the things that I have really struggled to wrestle with is that, um ah I've had so many conversations with my husband about this, um ah the the sort of um your ability to kind of keep pace with your own with your own self and your own ambition whilst also entering this entire new identity of motherhood. And, um ah you know, i i I have felt quite a lot of fear around what will happen to my career afterwards. um In a way I had a coach and she was like, but what if it's all fine? And I was like, yeah, that's a great question. Yeah. perfect I would say that the the thing that I found difficult about pregnancy is at the moment you're giving up so much like physically and mentally um and you don't know really what's going to come out the other end.
00:35:19
Speaker
um and when you become a parent or when I became a mum i I finally sort of I remember one of my investors saying it is all worth it you know um and I was like ah it is it actually is sorry I'm gonna cry it's just yeah
00:35:40
Speaker
but But it is worth it. and And I think the minute he arrived, I was like, yeah, is it really is. I just can never get over that feeling. The the high that we, you know, Kieran and I both had when he arrived and the love that we have in our life and how much we enjoy it and the fun is hard, but it's also amazing. And that is something that is really hard to see when you've not got it yet. You know, and it's really hard to like imagine what it's going to be like and how you're going to function and how you're going to juggle. But the anticipation is so much worse than actually being in it because when you're in Rebecca, you'll make it work and it will work, you know, and it will be hard, but you'll be in it and you'll flex and you'll function and it will be fine. And I just think like the worst bit is like almost being ready to jump off the cliff, but you're not quite, you know, you're like on the edge of it. And I think that's actually harder.
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think, gosh, that was really quite moving. um Do you think if you ever wanted another child, you would still have the same anxieties or you'd just be like, i I know it's cool? Yeah, no, I think at least that anxiety won't be there. um And there is anxiety I've seen from my friends going through having a second child, they they do have a that that fear just before the second arise of how am I going to do this timewise and how am I going to not spend as much time with my first etc so I'm not denying that it's not hard but i felt this like I felt this monumental life change was just about to happen and I was so nervous about that with my career and
00:37:22
Speaker
my relationship with Kieran and all of these things, it was at times overwhelming. So yeah, I think it won't be as bad. And also nothing in life in general is ever as bad or as hard second time round. I do think that as well. That's my like, other belief. Yeah, I think experience is general generally quite helpful. um As a bar, I think, well, I remember having a conversation with my sister and she and I was like, I couldn't pinpoint what I was getting really anxious about and and she was like you're you're basically grieving something that you currently have without acknowledging that there's something amazing yeah that will that will that will change and adapt how you manage everything else. ah Yeah and ah I guess, and yeah your priorities change ah but I've actually found that a very liberating thing
00:38:19
Speaker
and So to but put like a positive outlook on that, um is you you may be wondering like, oh God, you know, but I might not move as quickly in my career or whatever, but actually you still have those anxieties, but you have joy and love in another area that it sort of fills, fit the two don't compete.
00:38:48
Speaker
I can't
Preparing for and Returning from Maternity Leave
00:38:49
Speaker
really describe it, but it there's another priority there. And actually I found that I'm more balanced, especially as a founder. And as a worker, I feel like I have a bit more balance in my brain about the amount of time and energy I put into my startup and my family. um and it I love that. It's not' like it's like not not that it's not important, it's just got a slightly different weighting. Yeah, exactly. yeah I'd still have the same importance, but there's other important things or just as important things.
00:39:19
Speaker
and that means that I don't stress as much about small things going wrong. I am better at switching off in the evenings when I come home. ah I can of kind of see the bigger picture and ultimately I think that means I i make better decisions for the business because it's a bit less and tied up with my own like personality and sense of self.
00:39:44
Speaker
So yeah, I think workplace and identity without something else going on can feel almost like a really high pressure exactly environment that can burst. um I would love to talk about your process of going on mat leave and kind of how did you prepare for that? um How did you know how long you wanted to take? how you know What was that process like practically? Yeah.
00:40:08
Speaker
I'm actually going to do a survey on how I'd love to look at the delta between what women plan to take off versus what they took off or what they wish they'd taken off because I think that's this whole I would like I could write like 10 sub stacks on that. So I think it's such an interesting thing.
00:40:25
Speaker
um but yeah I knew and I worked out with my coach quite early on that having time off like completely off was very important to me and obviously everyone's different um some of the founders I spoke to didn't want that or you know didn't feel like they wanted to do that and that's fine but I felt that was important ah I I ah felt like, because of the time of year, it's it felt like sort of if he arrived in September, then I'd have until January off. That also felt like normal. It kind of felt like a good time to come back. um Not knowing anything about babies, sleep patterns, feeding, you know, what a three month old, but five month old does, you know, didn't know anything about that.
00:41:08
Speaker
Um, and I, it was different for me because I was effectively handing over everything to Annie. But, do you know, I started just writing down things like, Annie needs to know how to pay people. Annie needs to know how to, you know, do our VAT return from like the critical staff to like, Annie needs to know where this um login is saved.
00:41:33
Speaker
you know tiny things and it was just like as I was but pregnant I just started writing down things that I thought people should know and i'd I'd advise anyone listening who's pregnant to just have that list you know saved or bookmarked on their screen all the time so they could just put thoughts down as they come to them.
00:41:51
Speaker
And then um when Annie started, I would have probably had a longer handover period with her, but because of various things, we only really had two or three weeks because they looked like they were going to induce me because he was um quite small. And um when she started, um we started with the critical thing. You know, I was like, if I go into labour tomorrow, at least you know how to pay the team.
00:42:14
Speaker
but and everything else they'll have to just tell you. And then we went, you know, and we just went through that list from most critical to least critical. And I made extensive notes, I recorded looms, I, you know, and actually we went through that list quite quickly because Annie's super smart and she'd worked on the start-up before so, you know, she was perfect, she was the perfect night cover for what I needed.
00:42:37
Speaker
um And when I was off, i then there was that bit towards the end where I felt like I was sort of ready to go, but I was just sort of hanging around a little bit. yes And then I realized I just needed to log off. you know There was always gonna be another thing I could do, but I just, I needed to call cut the cord. And that was a very, and honestly, I'd say that I logged off, completely logged off everything and just said, guys, I'm out.
00:43:04
Speaker
and the relief of kind of running the company pregnant with all of this over the last nine months it was just like the happiest week of my life I think after that. He hadn't even arrived and I just sat in the garden it was a heat wave and I just sat in the garden and ate Miles ice creams and just was like oh You've made it to the finish line. um And I would strongly, and my my other topic which I feel very strongly about is women um when they should go on that leave. We don't have enough time to talk about how long they should all want to have off but i have you thought about that yet? So um I'm looking forward to watching your facial expressions as I say this. I've currently booked
00:43:52
Speaker
ship But to start, my mat leaves three days before my two date. I can tell that's maybe the wrong answer. What month are you doing? End of October. OK.
00:44:06
Speaker
Um, so in my opinion and experience, uh, our CTO tried to tell me this and I said to her, no, no, you're not. No, I'm, you know, she, I think she was due mid-May and I, and I said, I'm not assuming you're out by the 1st of May, you know, by the way.
00:44:24
Speaker
don't talk to me from the first of May unless you really want to but you know and she didn't really understand and then as we got closer I think she sort of understood but you maybe you can be you completely different but just to just to say that what we don't understand very well in this country is that your full term at 37 weeks And from that point, mentally and kind of medically, you kind of enter a different realm of pregnancy. um If you have any reduced movements after that point, you know, if you feel like he or she is not moving, if you go into triage, which you should do, if if that happens, they will normally advise to induce you there and then because, you know, the risk of keeping the baby in you after that point is too high. If they feel like there's any reason for them to be concerned.
00:45:13
Speaker
combined with the fact that one in three pregnancies in this country end in an induction and a lot of those may be for the reason that I had which is that they're growing small so they think there might be the essential insufficiency um and if they induce you or you go for an elective caesar that's always around the 38 week but sorry the c-section is around 38 weeks.
00:45:34
Speaker
and in the case that you know I had, they want to pull them out a bit early. So I just ah just want to put a point out there that there is a few things that may happen between 37 and 40 weeks where you know your due date is.
00:45:48
Speaker
And just to like mentally prepare yourself for them. Now, you may decide that you don't want to just sit around at work and um at home and wait. If you're choosing not to have an elective CZ, you may decide to not sit around and wait to go into labour. Totally fine. But I just think it's worth everyone to plant that seed of you know, there could be things that happen in those weeks. I may mentally be thinking my brain is in a completely different space. And just to like, you know, how we talked about setting expectations for your pregnancy. I think setting expectations for the end of your pregnancy is really important. You know, don't expect too much of yourself, because you may be disappointed if you're not achieving what you want in those final weeks. um If that makes sense.
00:46:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, really good advice. um and And when did you come back to the lowdown and and how did you deal with that kind of working pattern, childcare, whole new world? Yeah, I came back. So I came back in January, wouldn't really advise coming with back the first week of January. I don't know why I thought of that that was bad planning on my behalf, ah because it kind of ruined my Christmas because I was thinking about work quite a lot and not in a positive way in a kind of worrying about things, but can't do things way.
00:47:07
Speaker
Um, my partner took, so I'd had like 16 weeks off and then my partner took three months off, shared parental leave. Thank you to Skye, you are a forward thinking company. Um, and so we, um, you know, he was the lead parent and I, I ramped up and just, you know, being really kind to myself. Um, you know, I worked from home a lot. I i was still breastfeeding.
Childcare and Community Support
00:47:32
Speaker
I, um,
00:47:34
Speaker
didn't push myself you know i just trying to be really kind and and Annie was great at reminding me you know to be kind things will and it just like takes a while for your brain to come back uh obviously you know I we split rooms so that I could get sleep there was no way we could have shared a bed and I could have been woken up all night you know Kieran was doing all of the nights basically in the week and we'd split them at the weekends um And yeah, and we you know it was difficult. there was It's been really up and down. you know There's been like really good weeks and really hard weeks. um I had to come back to fundraise, um which went really well, and thanks to Annie. And I would just say that when it really mattered, when I really needed to perform, um I could. And I found working in that period easier than working pregnant. Interesting.
00:48:30
Speaker
Amazing. And then so so you it sounds like your partner is back at work now. Yeah. And, and I mean, what really astonishes me, and I just feel is just such a black mark against our entire system is the cost of childcare. Yeah. and ah Which is mind blowing the expensive um in the yeah UK. And that to me feels like what is really holding back um a kind of a mother's potential in the workplace. um How did you navigate childcare when you were both back at work? Yeah, we, I think I put him down for a nursery place, you know, I think from the day that Kieran went back. So that was always sort of there in case we needed it. And then when we, when Kieran went back, then we started using and Bubble, it's like kind of, you know, an app where you can find nannies and and childcare.
00:49:26
Speaker
ah Yeah, childcare was definitely another thing I got very anxious about during the pregnancy as well. um And we found this great app called Bubble, you can book nannies and child babysitters to come and we used that and it was just so great and we developed a roster of like three wonderful women who'd come and look after him maybe for like four hours in the afternoon or you know um and we started to kind of get into using using them um and then um over some time and then we also had a bit of help from my parents. I would say like it is a lot of sort of trying out what what works for you as a couple um you know and really trying to see what you feel comfortable with. ah I think one benefit of the way we did it is
00:50:16
Speaker
I was very used to other people taking care of him from an early early age. And that included Kieran, who was completely co-parent, responsible parent. So we just kind of got used to other people taking care of him locally. And then and we decided um to get a nanny share with our neighbours to make it more affordable. So that, you know, and it all kind of worked out through various chance conversations and things but it took I would say three to five months to work that out um and a lot of kind of ad hoc people around the edges and support you know um and you just don't really know what you're going to feel like and what you're going to want until you get there. Yeah it's super interesting, back to the Mattressons book which I'll start harping on about, um ah they were talking about how Western culture has put a lot of pressure on just like
00:51:10
Speaker
parents being the caregivers when actually in other cultures there's an entire community and network of people that are involved in in raising children. um So I really think in my heart of hearts the distribution of child care to a number of people feels like the the more realistic option.
Positive Experiences during Pregnancy
00:51:31
Speaker
Yeah, super interesting. um A nice question is what, what was the most enjoyable part of being pregnant at work? That might be a nice closure. um ah Yeah, I did say that enjoy was not a verb, I would often use pregnancy. um But i I do have a few highlights, you know, I did when, when I was not publicly pregnant to too many people. I went in and smashed a wired health pitch um in front of hundreds of people. We won this startup pitch competition last year. And I just felt like incredible. You know, I was like, yes, like I just smashed it. And that was coming out of that first trimester. I think it was like 16 weeks pregnant or something, just when I'd start to like enjoy food again. And the whole day was exhausting. But, you know, I i did do really well and I felt really proud of myself again. I kind of felt like I've got my mojo back a bit.
00:52:24
Speaker
And then later on in the summer, another one of our investors invited me to talk. And, you know, everyone just like laughed about the fact I was a woman running a contraception startup pregnant and it was all really great. And I just, you know, I felt really confident pitching on stage with my bump and just thinking,
00:52:40
Speaker
Yeah, do you know what? Like women are fucking amazing actually. um So those were some really nice bits. And um I also, we happen to be, obviously it happens when you're pregnant, but um Channel 4 got in touch and they were filming this documentary about contraception. And we met like Davina McCool and all the, you know, it's like this amazing play and she came in and met us all. And I was feeling so terrible. I was at the stage where I was like eating a prep whilst walking to Pret, you know, I was so hungry. She was just like, and I i sort of halfway through the day, it was like this really long filming day, I said, oh, you know, I'm actually pregnant. And she was so amazing. She was like, oh my God. And I just, she was just buzzing. And she talked to me all about her birth and, and it was just great. And I just thought, yeah, it's totally fine to tell everyone here because, you know, I do just want to take a sit down and, you know, I need a break and stuff. But yeah, those are some good highlights and it
00:53:39
Speaker
It wasn't all doom and gloom, and I'm aware I've probably been quite negative, but I guess I'm just trying to be honest, like you say, about the actual experience of being pregnant. Yeah, I mean, I i think um ah being pregnant is, I mean,
00:53:55
Speaker
sometimes they really hate it but people see your bump and they're just like I'm coming to talk to you yeah and i'm like I'm quite introverted so I'm like oh no don't yeah don't come here but actually sometimes it is the start of just a really gorgeous conversation um in a way that like you probably wouldn't have had that conversation if you weren't sort of visibly pregnant and someone would like wanted to hunt you down and talk to you um Yeah, i agree and you you do have some lovely conversations with people and also people really talk about very personal things. and they you know They start opening up about their children and their experiences and you really get to like see a different side to people and yeah you know investors. Everyone's like a human and it's amazing.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:54:40
Speaker
I had this conversation with a colleague, you know, when you're like early pregnant and it's like lower risk to tell a total stranger that you're pregnant than it is to tell someone you actually know. yeah and This conversation with someone and then just ended this full discussion about how she found birth, like the most empowering moment in her life. It's like, you would have never had this conversation. And that's really fascinating. So I love it.
00:55:05
Speaker
Yeah um well Alice this has been an absolute joy is there anything else on your mind that we haven't covered that you feel like is in your heart what what must go out to listeners? No just if anyone's listening they want to um follow me on sub stack if they they have been pregnant um or are pregnant or have had children I'll be sharing a survey that we're running about time off and maternity leave that I'd love you to ah contribute to if you'd like to share your story. Amazing. We will put your self-sack in the show notes so that um the listeners can find it whenever they get around to listening. It's been a real joy to have you. Thank you so much for sharing everything and giving us so much of you today on this extremely hot day. I feel okay. My feet are quite large today, but you know, such is life. All right. Thanks everyone. Bye. Bye.