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Episode 25 - DEALING WITH REPETITION and the Problem with Production
783 Plays10 days ago
Do you find yourself bored when you make something more than once? How about when you make that something 1000 times because it sells well? Is there creativity to be found withing production work? How do we deal with the mental side of doing a repetitive task? In this episode we think about both the PROS and CONS to production work and how to find the right mindset that enables repetitive production work to be more creative and more fulfilling. We also have our first AD read, and believe me, you won't want to skip it because its a hiarious mess told as a bad Hallmark Movie. I'm pretty sure we won't have another ad sponsor after this!
To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon: http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Woodworking is Bullshit'
00:00:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Welcome one, welcome all to another episode of your favorite podcast. And if it's not your favorite, we have a problem at this point. Welcome to Woodworking is Bullshit. A podcast about creativity, art, design, sometimes woodwork, sometimes not. I'm your host, Paul Jasper, scientist by day, woodworker by night. And I'm joined by my two fabulous co-hosts, Eric Curtis, fine furniture maker and ton content creator and Mary Tisai.
00:00:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Bondled up, snug as a bug in a rug, if you could see the video.
00:00:50
Mary
it's It's winter. Winter is coming.
00:00:55
E 🎅
You look like Bilbo to Sayi.
00:00:57
Mary
I have no issue with that. I will take that as a compliment, honestly.
00:01:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Bubo Tisai, Mary Sai, UX designer by day, contemporary furniture, ah wood actress by night.
00:01:13
E 🎅
yeah Oh, yeah.
00:01:15
Mary
Wow, that took a detour.
00:01:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I was gonna say, what was I gonna say, Eris, but you're not an Eris, you're a wood ductress.
00:01:21
E 🎅
Yes.
00:01:21
Mary
If only, ugh.
00:01:26
E 🎅
That's been her entire ah career arc. She's just been waiting to find out that she's got a rich uncle.
The Challenges of Repetition in Woodworking
00:01:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, so today's episode, we're gonna we're just gonna get cracking. Today's episode, I think, is something everyone can relate to who's made anything, all right? It's about the idea of repetition. So making more of more than one of something. And we know that repetition sometimes sucks.
00:02:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right? You're standing there. You're making like 20, 40, 60, 80 of the same thing in a row. Eric, is there a problem?
00:02:17
E 🎅
No, I think my did my zencaster just freeze?
00:02:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't know. Did it?
00:02:21
Mary
Nope.
00:02:22
E 🎅
The pro like I i was trying to message Mary a joke about dildo Baggins, but it's not working.
00:02:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:02:32
E 🎅
ah The message isn't working, but then I also but I I also can't ah move my my window out of the screen.
00:02:33
Mary
ah Well, I'm glad that's officially recorded on the podcast now.
00:02:44
E 🎅
I don't know what's happening. OK.
00:02:45
Mary
I mean, it's still recording from what I can tell.
00:02:48
E 🎅
It's still recording anyway, so I was, I was just, i that's going to be, nah, let that ride out.
00:02:50
Mary
Okay, well that just officially became part of it.
00:02:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I know should we start over? Should we just let that go?
00:02:56
Mary
Nope, we're keeping it.
00:02:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:02:57
E 🎅
But the thing is I can't, I can't set my screen up for the ad read later, which is what I was trying to do. But so we're going to have to figure that out. But anyway, uh, so production work sucks, huh?
00:03:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Uh. Mary is gonna be dildo baggage for the rest of the episode.
00:03:15
Mary
What?
00:03:18
E 🎅
That was one of those moments where like I feel like a joke maybe shouldn't make it onto the pod, but then it's too late because things happen.
00:03:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
Does Repetition Stifle or Enhance Creativity?
00:03:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, uh, Eric, me and Dildo Baggins are going to talk about, Oh yeah.
00:03:30
Mary
No! No!
00:03:32
E 🎅
Mary, what I was actually gonna tell you is that your mic is really hot right now, but but i but I couldn't tell you that in the group chat.
00:03:38
Mary
Oh um my god.
00:03:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Well, uh, I don't know if, I don't know if the listeners know, but we don't edit this.
00:03:43
E 🎅
We're off the rails.
00:03:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So if you don't know that before, you know that now.
00:03:48
E 🎅
ah
00:03:50
E 🎅
i feel I feel like you say that every time some dumb shit happens, Paul.
00:03:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, it happens all the time, Eric.
00:03:57
E 🎅
Honestly.
00:03:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, good. So back to the topic at hand. um Repetition. We all have been there. And the sort of the the the overarching question is, how do you make it interesting?
00:04:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How do you fucking deal with it? You're standing there doing 60 of the same operation more in a row, day after day, week after week, month after month. how do And it depends on your scale, obviously, but is there, so like, how do we see repetition? Is it something to be avoided? Does it stymie creativity? Does it enhance creativity? How do we feel about it? So I want to start by saying for a long time, I think I avoided repetition because I found it intellectually boring.
The Role of Iteration in Creativity
00:04:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah However, in more recent years, I have found that there's subtleties within it that make it more interesting and that can make it that can make it more interesting, such as, Eric, and I think maybe you you mentioned wanting to go here when we were talking before the episode, such as, instead of thinking about like, oh, is that piece interesting or is that piece not interesting, thinking more of it from,
00:05:01
E 🎅
Such as.
00:05:09
E 🎅
Hmm.
00:05:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
how can I optimize this process that I'm doing 50 or 100 times to go better, to go more um better to to be more efficient, to be less frustrating, to use up less materials, to to take less time?
00:05:35
E 🎅
Yeah. I mean, i like, so we, we talk about the need for iteration in the creative process constantly, right? Like you make a thing, that's not the last time you're going to make that thing.
00:05:44
Mary
Mm hmm.
00:05:47
E 🎅
That thing could lead to an idea down the road that you employ in a different situation. And then that makes that piece better. That's all part of the iterative process. And production work can be an iterative process.
00:05:59
E 🎅
It can be like, you make 20 of a thing, and then you go, okay, that was the first batch run, I figured out the kinks, I figured out where the the the workflow jams up.
00:05:59
Mary
Yeah.
00:06:08
E 🎅
And so now I can split that up in a different way. And then the next iteration of that you're making 80 in the time it took you to make 20 of a thing. And there, there are people who really enjoy that minute. This is like the creative mind versus the mathematical mind. They, they are opposite sides of the same coin, but there are people who really enjoyed those little tiny tweaks to see how far they can push it the next time.
00:06:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So I'm curious about your innate set points. So Eric and Mary and me, let's what I want to do is like, what's your innate like set point with sort of one-off?
00:06:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
versus repetition.
00:06:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like some people, well like it, sorry, if that's a spectrum, like super repetition, ah iterative monster to, I only make everything once because I'm an artiste.
00:06:46
E 🎅
What do you mean?
00:06:47
E 🎅
What do you mean by set point?
00:06:59
Mary
Oh, like where do we tend to land?
00:07:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, where do you naturally tend to go?
00:07:01
Mary
I see. I tend to go one-offs, although the timing of this conversation is funny because I just did a set of cutting boards.
00:07:12
Mary
I think I hate doing the most, but it is Christmas time and my family demands stupid things. um
00:07:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mary, that's not a stupid thing. And and you're gonna tell us more about the said cutting boards.
00:07:24
E 🎅
it's It's Christmas, so I guess I'll hate myself.
00:07:28
Mary
I mean, basically, I yeah, I mean, I avoid doing ah repetitive things, one, because I don't really have that much time. And two, if I am going to use my time efficiently, I want to be like all in on like one thing that I think is pushing me creatively and design aspect craft that.
00:07:48
Mary
craft aspect. ah So I usually try to do one off pieces I have however done like repeat furniture pieces not often but I've done it a few or I've done one piece a few times and I did find it way easier after the first time just like knocking it out the speed at which I like I think I cut my time at least in half it was just so much faster. So like I get it I get the idea of doing a product, like making production pieces. And it can be kind of satisfying, I think. Also, like, if you are just knocking things out, you feel really productive. And maybe that's not creatively engaging you as much. But there is a very positive benefit to, you know, feeling productive and getting work done.
00:08:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's a good point. And Mary, if, if one is, I only make anything once and 10 is I make multiples of everything. I'm a production lover. What kind of number would you give yourself?
00:08:49
E 🎅
Mary was a production lover in college.
00:08:50
Mary
I'm probably more... I don't entirely get the joke, but I also am offended.
00:08:55
E 🎅
Carry on. carry on
00:08:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And you don't want to ask what he means either.
00:09:03
Mary
I think I would probably rate myself as like a three.
00:09:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Eric, what's your natural set point? Do you think?
00:09:11
E 🎅
I think i I definitely lean more towards making
Benefits of Repetition: Skills and Efficiency
00:09:16
E 🎅
one-off objects. I just find the process of not knowing where a thing is going much more engaging.
00:09:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:09:23
E 🎅
um And rather than not knowing like how a process is going to unfold and tweaking that.
00:09:30
E 🎅
But as time goes by, I do, and like the the the creative demand of like constantly making interesting objects for clients, constantly making ah YouTube videos, trying to make sure that the YouTube videos are interesting and polished. and like just like the The creative stretches in a bunch of different ways.
00:09:57
E 🎅
there are times where I'm really grateful for making an object that I've made 100 times. um Not necessarily 100 in a row, but ah ah an object I know how to make and I'm just doing a thing and not thinking and I can turn my brain off.
00:10:13
E 🎅
So for example, like we've all carved a million spoons.
00:10:13
Mary
Mm-hmm.
00:10:17
E 🎅
um And
00:10:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I haven't. I've only made one.
00:10:21
E 🎅
Okay.
00:10:21
Mary
One!
00:10:21
E 🎅
Well, yeah like we've all, we've all carved spoons and like, we all have the thing that we started doing early on in our woodworking journey, right?
00:10:22
Mary
Oh.
00:10:28
E 🎅
And mine was spoons. And, uh, Sarah asked me to, to make her a spoon for Christmas. Cause I haven't made one for her yet. And I was, I was more than happy the other night.
00:10:39
E 🎅
I was just like, I was dead. I was exhausted. And I was like, I just need some playtime in the shop of like mindless work, you know? And I just sat there and carved a spoon for two hours, you know?
00:10:49
E 🎅
And, and like. That's not thought, that's not really production because it's not mastering like a multiple of a thing, but it is a thing I know how to do innately because I've done it so many times.
00:10:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. Hmm.
00:11:00
E 🎅
Um, so I think my natural inclination is to fall much more toward one-offs, but I am slowly finding more and more enjoyment in, um, the kind of.
00:11:16
E 🎅
the the craft side of the thing where it's not so much creative pushing the limits. It's just, I know how to do this thing and I know how to execute it well and I can just let my hands do and my brain doesn't have to think.
00:11:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So you're you're almost...
00:11:32
Mary
But that seems like a combination of the two because I assume that you are not making the same spoon over and over again.
00:11:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Go ahead, Mary.
00:11:42
E 🎅
And yeah, that that's totally fair. And that's why I was like, it's not really production work. um If if I were to say, make 20 cutting boards, I would die. um So so it really depends. um I really and we'll get into this later in the episode, but like,
00:12:03
E 🎅
Paul your idea of doing a small batch run once a year is is a thing that I really like for a lot of reasons. um And that's, that's the kind of thing where I've wanted to do that again for a while I the last time I did a batch run was I think 2018, and I made, I think, 20 coffee scoops. I turned them all. um And I still have the one that I made that year, and I sold the other 19. And at that moment, I was like, I don't ever want to do a batch round of anything ever again.
00:12:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, so Eric, what number do you give yourself? One being I only do one offs, 10 being I do repetitive tasks.
00:12:44
E 🎅
I don't know, three? Is that what Mary said?
00:12:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, so Mary's a three.
00:12:48
Mary
Matching!
00:12:48
E 🎅
Yeah, twinsies.
00:12:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yay, twin, twinning.
00:12:50
Mary
yeah
00:12:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, so um I also very much prefer one-offs, as I said at the beginning of the episode. I would give myself a three, yeah, probably a two or a three.
00:13:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I almost always do one-offs. All right, so but we've sort of, in in some ways, disqualified ourselves from talking about the values.
00:13:12
E 🎅
but but but i But I don't think so. like we've We've talked about our preferences of of what we want to do creatively, right?
00:13:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, okay, right.
00:13:18
E 🎅
But our experiences do qualify us to have this conversation.
00:13:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Correct, so, yes. So let's talk about each
Repetition's Impact on Design Innovation
00:13:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
experience. So what I'd like to do is like, so when you do one-offs, why do you do one-offs and why do you avoid repetition?
00:13:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What about doing one-offs? And Eric, you you sort of gave part of your answer and I loved it.
00:13:35
E 🎅
Mm.
00:13:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The joy of not knowing, the uncertainty is arousing. I think it's an arousal because when you don't know, it's like, imagine like,
00:13:44
E 🎅
Yeah.
00:13:48
E 🎅
Easy dildo baggons.
00:13:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i
00:13:49
Mary
the
00:13:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
is is Mary aroused, I didn't say.
00:13:52
E 🎅
Oh, I saw those eyes she was giving you.
00:13:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um So, um you know, the idea of not knowing what's coming next can be very arousing. I i remember a time I was I was hiking, and we were going down the mountain so fast, stone to stone, right? So you're walking only on stones, right?
00:14:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and you're all you can see is the next stone that you're going to step on and you have so much momentum you know that you have to pick another stone after that but you don't know where it is what it looks like what angle is how far it is what your ankle is going to do when it hits it and there was something like like so
00:14:19
E 🎅
Mmm.
00:14:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
damn exciting about not knowing like what was next. It was like an adrenaline rush in some way. So Eric, I sort of get that if you don't, you've invested so much in a piece, you have so much tied into it. And you're not exactly sure where it's going. And there's like attention to that, that is fuels you creatively. And like, exciting it's exciting, I think.
00:14:57
E 🎅
No, 100%. I and I think hiking is a ah great metaphor for that. Actually, like this. What? I mean, you all hike, you've like you've been at that point in the trail when you're like climbing a mountain where you come to that flat and you're like, Oh, this is this is the peak man, like I'm coming up and then and then you come around the bend and you're like, fuck, really?
00:15:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And you're like, uh-oh.
00:15:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Uh-oh.
00:15:18
E 🎅
like you just see it keep going but but there's something about that like that false hope of the promise of being there that then you're rejuvenated to keep going whereas like if you knew that it was still another 45 minutes to the top of the mountain you'd be like
00:15:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:15:34
E 🎅
All right, well, you know, that's, I just got to buckle down and do the work. So I think there, there is that, there, there's that hope aspects of it.
00:15:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. so
00:15:41
E 🎅
That is, uh, that's the arousal part. You're like, I think this might work and then it doesn't. And you go, Oh, but this other thing worked. So let me see where that went.
00:15:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I love it, that's a great example. Mary, what what about you do you, like what about the creative one-off process for you keeps you excited?
00:16:00
Mary
Well, I've said before, ah my favorite part of the entire process is the designing part. So for me, if I'm going to do another piece, like I want it to be iterative off of my last design. And the reason why I choose the one-off is because that's not necessarily always my favorite. If I'm going to start creating a new piece and like spending the time on designing something new. I want it to be you know fulfilling, and I want it to be something else that I haven't done before. And I just i just feel a lot better when I'm doing something completely brand new. like if i I've had people reach out and ask for like specific pieces, and then if they're like really set on them, they'll be like, OK, I can do something similar, inspired by that. But it's not going to be the same, because I really don't want to do the same thing.
00:16:49
Mary
ah And I think that is fine. But for my own personal preference, I really like the idea of pursuing a lot of different avenues in terms of creativity. And I also am often inspired by things that are, you know, just like in my everyday life, and they don't always relate to each other. So I just, yeah, I just kind of let mike my design inspiration take over.
00:17:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So go ahead, Eric, you have a question for Mary.
00:17:15
E 🎅
Well, is it yeah, so I want to ask you this, Mary, but I don't, I want to be a little bit careful because I don't want to be. I don't know. I don't, I don't want to like challenge you in the wrong way. I don't want to be offensive, but we're good enough friends. So I'll challenge you and be offensive. Uh, the.
00:17:35
E 🎅
I think the reason why I'm drawn to one-off work is because so much of my work is done with hand tools that I don't know that I could replicate it like time and time again. And if I were to make it into a production piece, I would have to alter a great number of my processes to do that.
00:17:56
E 🎅
Whereas your process and correct me if I'm wrong, but your process is more reliant on machines than hand tools is, or at least more reliant on machines than my processes.
00:18:08
Mary
Yeah.
00:18:09
E 🎅
Am I correct in that so far?
00:18:10
Mary
Yeah, I think so.
00:18:11
E 🎅
So it seemed like you have a background in product design, I don't. um So it seems to me like you're doing all of the work in the iterative processes of creating a product that you could produce at scale and reap the benefits of being a really good designer.
00:18:29
E 🎅
And then you do it once and then you go, well, well, the thing is done.
00:18:30
Mary
Mmhmm.
00:18:34
E 🎅
So like, if it feels like you're getting to the apex of the mountain and going like, ah, but I've seen other mountains. You know, like, like you're right there. So why, why not then like give that design to somebody else to produce and be like, or, you know, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna run 10 of these and sell them.
00:18:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:18:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Good question.
00:18:55
Mary
I mean, I would happily have someone else produce them for me.
00:18:59
Mary
I mean, my designs in general aren't that hard to make. It's just the design, like getting to the actual design is the part that I enjoy the most. So like I would happily hand it off for some sort of production line, et cetera.
00:19:14
E 🎅
So, so if you had say, uh, fault, like a a four by eight CNC and you could batch out, all you had to do is like glue up some ash and diet black in and cut those parts out on the CNC.
00:19:19
Mary
Mm-hmm.
00:19:27
E 🎅
And then you could produce your coffee table in two hours versus two months.
00:19:35
Mary
I don't want to do it. See, even two hours for me is a lot of time in my week.
00:19:37
E 🎅
Mmm.
00:19:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:19:39
Mary
I can barely get two hours in the shop.
00:19:40
E 🎅
Well, that's ma'am ma'am. Two, two hours is the same amount of time for all of us. That is how time works.
00:19:47
Mary
True. Fair, fair, fair.
00:19:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:19:48
Mary
Yes, that is true. But I mean, i could be using I could be using those two hours for something else that I would rather do instead.
00:19:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
oh eric
00:19:58
E 🎅
Sure, sure, okay, all right, that's fair, and that's fair. and And I feel much the same way of like that once the thing is figured out, it's no longer interesting to me. But I also, like, there is a part of this that I feel like we could skim over very easily, which is the value of production work, which is like, we can be hoity-toity and like, well, you know, we're intelligent and we're successful, so we don't have to do production work. So we're not gonna do production work.
00:20:26
E 🎅
But sometimes, and there's a lot of people in this situation, you just have to pay the fucking bills.
00:20:31
Mary
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
00:20:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:20:33
E 🎅
Like you just have to do the thing and you're never going to make money on one-off pieces.
00:20:39
Mary
yeah.
00:20:39
E 🎅
Like you're going to make some money. I'm not saying you're going to lose money on one-off pieces. What I mean is like the money, if you're trying to run a business, the money that's actually going to come in is in production work in built-ins.
00:20:51
E 🎅
And built-ins are production work because they're just big fucking boxes that you face differently depending on the client. But it's production work. And so i I feel like there is a level of elitism that all three of us are guilty and I'm very much including myself in this.
00:21:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, Eric, elitism.
00:21:06
E 🎅
That that is that is a thing of like, well, I don't want to do production work because it bores me.
00:21:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric.
00:21:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric, sweetheart, dearie.
00:21:14
Mary
Oh my god.
00:21:16
E 🎅
He hit me with the sweetheart.
00:21:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Darling. yeah um Elitism is implies a judgment and I think Mary and I have that feeling about one-off or production work because we have a J-O-B separate from the wood shop.
00:21:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so we can afford that luxury. I consider it a luxury.
00:21:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It is horrible business. it's It doesn't make any business sense at all, right?
00:21:41
E 🎅
Sure.
00:21:45
E 🎅
Well, so that's that's my point, right? That's my ultimate point.
00:21:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, it totally, totally.
00:21:48
E 🎅
I'm not trying to judge us for wanting to make one offs because ultimately, like you should be making the things that you want to make. Otherwise, don't be a woodworker, get a job and then be a hobbyist so you can make whatever the fuck you want.
00:21:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:21:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes, yes, so that that is that is ah a a a plus of being a hobbyist.
00:22:00
E 🎅
um
00:22:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
is you you're not You don't have to do that. But for me, like I wanted to understand what it's like doing production because I thought there might be lessons there to learn.
00:22:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And Eric, I think you've started to dabble. like yeah I feel like you've started to tickle some of the ideas that good things can come from production work.
00:22:19
E 🎅
Yeah.
00:22:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Not, of course, number one, money. And you know, that's where you earn your money is in production work with efficiency upgrades.
00:22:28
E 🎅
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Making big plywood boxes.
00:22:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:22:33
E 🎅
Yep.
00:22:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
With, with, uh, technological upgrades like CNC. And so I started to do some production. I've made hundreds and hundreds of stadia boxes, the little ones, several hundred probably.
00:22:45
E 🎅
Hmm. Have you really?
00:22:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but probably about 300.
00:22:50
E 🎅
No kidding.
00:22:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Um, and I've made them a variety of ways. And boy, I tell you what the process has changed.
00:22:56
E 🎅
Yeah. All right. So this, so this is an interesting, maybe this is just me being a wood nerd and in a ah k craft nerd, but like from the first stadia box that you ever made, how did you make it?
00:22:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right?
00:23:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:23:06
E 🎅
And what was the last one you ever made? And how did you make it?
00:23:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah the Oh, that's so good. So as an example, yeah, so as an example to the listeners.
00:23:10
Mary
How do you make them?
00:23:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
so the first So a stadium, if you don't know this, the stadium box, what we're talking about is a half circle and a half circle connected by two straight lines. So it's not quite an oval, okay?
00:23:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But it's it's geometrically a stadium. And I've made many of these because I find the form very compelling.
00:23:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The first one I ever made,
00:23:31
Mary
In industrial design, they call it the the pill form.
00:23:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh yeah, yeah, a pill a pill shape.
00:23:35
E 🎅
These sons of bitches.
00:23:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The first one I ever made, Eric, to give you an example of the efficiency changes. The first one I ever made, I just took a block of wood, plunged a Forstner bit.
00:23:46
E 🎅
I was it gonna say, oh, a Forstner bit.
00:23:46
Mary
Yeah.
00:23:47
E 🎅
I was gonna say, did you make a router jig?
00:23:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. no Well, that's that's the second iteration.
00:23:52
E 🎅
Okay, okay.
00:23:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
so I plunged a Forstner bit on both of the semicircles and in between and then just and then just flattened the walls with a chisel.
00:24:02
E 🎅
Mmm.
00:24:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And it looked like,
00:24:04
E 🎅
Interesting. Yeah, I looked like Dick. ah ah did but did Did you sell that one?
00:24:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I think I did.
00:24:14
E 🎅
Yeah.
00:24:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The problem was the Forstner bits put these little, these little holes at the bottom.
00:24:17
E 🎅
Ah, the little nipples.
00:24:18
Mary
The holes, yeah.
00:24:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so I had to put a, I had to put a false floor on that to cover all the shit.
00:24:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But anyway, it was just a, it was just a pilot test. And then I got into using and through that repetition, like I did that once or twice. And then I'm like, this sucks. and then I was like okay a router jig so then I built a router jig for it and I made many many many with a hand held router but the problem is the interior of the box is like two and a half inches deep and so I had to have a spiral up cut bit that protruded out of the router two and a half inches that's kind of scary on a tiny little box and you're holding this machine with your hands okay so I did that for about a hundred and about a hundred or a hundred and fifty boxes
00:24:24
E 🎅
Ah.
00:24:47
E 🎅
Yep. Yep.
00:24:50
Mary
Yeah, that is.
00:24:50
E 🎅
Yep. Yep.
00:24:59
E 🎅
Is that how you made mine?
00:25:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, I think I, okay.
00:25:02
E 🎅
No. Okay.
00:25:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So, but let me tell you why. So I, so I'm doing the router Jake router Jake router Jake, but I never felt comfortable holding that router on such a tiny little box. And it, the bit is so nasty.
00:25:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's like that bit, when you look at it, it fucking snarls at you, you know, you it's like, I don't want to eat your fingers motherfucker. You know, it was scary to use. And then I had a.
00:25:26
Mary
Did you do you do the inside first and then the outside?
00:25:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:25:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. And I did the outside on a bandsaw and and then sanded it.
00:25:30
Mary
Okay.
00:25:31
E 🎅
Mmm.
00:25:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um I had a close call.
00:25:36
Mary
I'm not surprised.
00:25:36
E 🎅
Yeah?
00:25:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Uh, yeah, like the, the, the, the router kicked on a corner. It was actually not in the stadium box, but it was, it was, it was a 90 degree corner. The, the router bit that I use for this, it caught on the corner.
00:25:50
Mary
Oof.
00:25:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It shoved the router so hard in my hands that the collar broke, the metal collar broke, went, went into the bit sparks flew in my face.
00:25:56
E 🎅
No shit.
00:25:57
Mary
Oh wow.
00:26:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I was so, and like, I was able to hold it and I turned it off and I had to go change my pants.
00:26:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I'll never forget it. That moment I was like, fuck this.
00:26:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I am buying a CNC tomorrow. And I did.
00:26:20
E 🎅
Sure.
00:26:23
E 🎅
Is that why you bought it?
00:26:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:26:25
E 🎅
No shit. And the the opportunities that that has opened up to.
00:26:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The next day.
00:26:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Ah, right. But then, but then the next day I bought a route, a CNC and that, and I've been making them on the CNC ever since.
00:26:31
E 🎅
Hmm.
00:26:35
E 🎅
Yeah.
00:26:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So your question is a good one.
00:26:38
Mary
Hmm.
00:26:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So repetition has informed me about like safety. It's informed me about efficiency and it informed me about a new tool or an innovation that has fueled the rest of my development.
00:26:51
E 🎅
Mm hmm.
00:26:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's amazing. So like without that repetition, would that have happened? No.
00:26:56
E 🎅
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so that's one great case for repetition.
00:26:58
E 🎅
That's a great point. Yeah.
00:27:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
There's also a case to be made for repetition about, it's not, a mayor and Mary, maybe I could challenge you about this, not challenge, but like I could ask for your opinion about this, is you find one off so compelling, right?
00:27:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Because it's like, ooh, the design and the thinking and the this and the that. Now that's because design is the focus.
00:27:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Now with with production, efficiency and ease and like but repeatability and accuracy is now the focus. Have you ever done a task where you had to do it many, many times? And instead of thinking about a design upgrade, you were thinking about an efficiency upgrade.
00:27:24
Mary
Mmhmm.
00:27:45
E 🎅
Ooh.
00:27:47
Mary
Yeah. Um, I mean, I had mentioned that I'd done, there's a coffee table I'd done a couple of times that the second and third time was a lot faster. So the first time I, I like learned everything that went wrong and spent the time on the second and third time, sorry, spent the time on the second and third versions to make the jigs, to just make it so much faster.
00:28:13
Mary
Like ji you have to make a jig if you're going to be in production work. It's just.
00:28:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, question. Did you find that process of efficiency upgrades and jigs? Did you find that compelling?
00:28:25
Mary
Ugh, sometimes, sometimes I make a jig that I'm pretty proud of. I'm like, wow, this is like, it's annoying how long it takes. Like, I feel like everyone hates how long it takes to make a jig, but sometimes if it's like a creative jig, I'm like, okay, I'm like pretty proud of this.
00:28:40
E 🎅
But is it isn't that like that's, that's the inventor side of what we do, right?
00:28:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:28:45
Mary
Yeah.
00:28:45
E 🎅
Like, and there's, there's a real value to that.
00:28:47
E 🎅
There's like the, the, the crazy old guy toiling away in the garage, like making the mouse trap. That's you're just like, Oh, that's clever as fuck.
00:28:53
Mary
Yeah.
00:28:56
E 🎅
You know, and like this, this is like Phil Morley is a great designer of objects in general, but also like there's a part of me that's like Phil is a better designer of jigs than he is a furniture because his jigs are so fucking clever.
00:28:58
Mary
Yeah.
00:29:10
Mary
Yeah, there's something.
00:29:11
E 🎅
Like he's so good at any he understands that process of not only like how he's going to produce a thing over and over, but how he's going to give that to an apprentice or an employee.
00:29:24
E 🎅
And they can produce that over and over. And that takes a level of but understanding the craft that I think coming up in in the world of making one offs like you never have to learn how to teach somebody at a low level that that way.
00:29:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:29:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:29:36
Mary
Yeah, that I would argue that like jig making creative jig making is in itself like a design problem.
00:29:42
E 🎅
Mm hmm.
00:29:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It is.
00:29:43
Mary
And it is a whole other creative mini problem that you're tackling in your grand scheme of your project.
00:29:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:29:50
E 🎅
I mean, is that like maybe this is grossly oversimplifying what you do for a living, Mary, and I apologize if it is, but like, is that not kind of what you do?
00:29:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:30:00
E 🎅
Like if you were to digitize the jig, like you build things for like to make the user interface of your products easier.
00:30:10
Mary
Yeah, basically. I mean, the whole the whole purpose of my job is to make things easy, intuitive, and invisible.
00:30:17
E 🎅
and and efficient to, I imagine some degree.
00:30:18
Mary
Yeah. Yeah, sufficient.
00:30:20
E 🎅
Like that's that's that's literally just jig making, but like in the digital space.
00:30:21
Mary
It would be one of the top ones.
00:30:25
Mary
Yeah, pretty much.
00:30:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's a great analogy.
00:30:27
Mary
I mean, the whole point is you're solving a problem, which in our case, when you're creating a piece of our piece of furniture, that's not necessarily the main question that you're or the main goal that you're trying to solve.
00:30:40
Mary
But for me, in my regular day job, that is it's just what is the problem? How do we solve it as fast as possible?
00:30:45
E 🎅
Well, I think to an extent, ah like that question is the question that we contend with on one-offs as well, right? Like how do we solve a problem?
00:30:55
Mary
Yeah.
00:30:55
E 🎅
We have a problem. It's not looking right. We need it to function a certain way. And so we, we go about that in the way that we know because we're only doing it once, which means I can take a chisel to it.
00:31:05
E 🎅
I can take a hand plane to it and I can fix the problem. But if I have to teach an employee how to do it, I have an apprentice who's coming up or Mary in your case, I have 7 million people using the Adobe interface who have to do this who have to solve this problem on a daily basis, I have to do it in a way that is accessible to them.
00:31:27
Mary
Mm hmm.
00:31:27
E 🎅
So I have to create a process to do that, which is production woodworking.
00:31:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:31:33
Mary
Yeah, the problem is, uh, I'm not complaining about my job at all, but the problem is that the more people that you have to please, or you have to, you know, make it work, then it's harder.
00:31:41
E 🎅
Oh, well, we live in an age where you can't please anybody.
00:31:44
Mary
I mean, it's like making a jig for someone who like doesn't have arms and someone who like, ah like can't, can't move around the shop.
00:31:45
E 🎅
Yeah.
00:31:50
E 🎅
And then, and then you, then you get sued by the ADA.
00:31:52
Mary
It's like, it's yeah, it's a very wide range of people.
00:31:53
E 🎅
Yeah. Like, sure. Sure. You can't please, you can't please anybody, let alone everybody. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah
00:32:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, there's also a case to be made for repetitious tasks. Of course, and we talked about like finding ways to make it more efficient, the jig making or the efficiency efficiency challenges being the focus rather than design, right?
00:32:16
E 🎅
Hmm.
00:32:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Is there, um are there moments where it spurs creativity? So I'm going to, Eric, I'm going to ask you this and I'm going to preface this by saying, does it open up brain cycles?
00:32:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
while you're doing the repetitive tasks that are available for this? And secondly, ah does it um help you envision V2, V3, V4 of the same object?
00:32:43
E 🎅
My initial inclination is to say absolutely. Yes. Like they're once you master the thing and you can do the thing over and over, you're no longer using active attention to to do the thing. And then that active attention goes elsewhere, which allows you to think about how can I do this faster? How can I do it better? How can I do it? How can I sell it for more? Like whatever the question is, that's on mind. Um,
00:33:12
E 🎅
And I mean, like we've we've talked about the Shakers in past episodes, and ah we know that they invented the table saw. like We know, or the circular saw, in fairness.
00:33:23
E 🎅
We know that that came from her watching ah Tabitha something or other, watching people doing the same repetitive task over and over every single day, day in and day out.
00:33:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:33:32
E 🎅
And she went, at some point, like this At some point, the light bulb went off where she went, I can figure out a way to make this more efficient from an energy standpoint.
00:33:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:33:43
E 🎅
And then she invented the circular saw.
00:33:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:33:45
E 🎅
So like that's a very clear. In our wheelhouse example of repetition led to the ah space for, for thought expansion to invent a new tool, which made life more efficient.
The Importance of Prototypes and Iterations
00:34:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
great example.
00:34:03
E 🎅
um as far as the creative side of things. like Yeah. So the piece I'm working on right now is like, it's a piece that I've not made before, but all of the processes I've done before, you know, like, and there's, there is, I've been veneering fucking acres of wood on this piece. Like it's it's obscene. And at some point by, by, you know, after three, four weeks of veneering, you're not thinking about veneering anymore.
00:34:36
E 🎅
And you're you're thinking about like, okay, well. Now I, first of all, I've already cut my time for stitching and veneering a surface in half because I'm just more comfortable with the process. And now I'm thinking about three steps ahead of time. How am I going to approach this in order to solve this problem? And the only reason that's happening in that time in, in that space is because I'm doing the repetitive motions of the nearing more surfaces. So I, I think there's real value in allowing that space. It's the boredom conversation again, right?
00:35:11
Mary
I would also speak from I don't do it like the repetitive process within design is the one that I can speak more to because if you look at my iPad, I get you can see the progress of a design because it's the same thing over and over again, but one thing changed or I know that um I'm honing in on a file design I like when I start to
00:35:27
E 🎅
Hmm
00:35:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. Hmm.
00:35:35
Mary
like do the same thing over and over again, and I feel good about it. And there, ah yeah, I mean, it's not like I'm making each one of these, like maybe if I had the time, then I would spend the time making, you know, a little prototypes of each or model of each, etc. But even from the beginning design phase, you spend the time going through V1, V2, V3, etc.
00:36:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And you can't get to V3 unless you do V1, right?
00:36:08
Mary
Yeah, exactly.
00:36:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You have to.
00:36:09
E 🎅
I think that's a critical thing that we often overlook, right?
00:36:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:36:13
E 🎅
Yeah. You can't, you can't, you can't build the CNC and, and have the files for the stadium boxes without realizing all of the things that, because here's the other thing, right?
00:36:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:36:26
E 🎅
Like you can, you can do it by hand and realize all of the things that aren't working from a design perspective. That's what prototyping is, right? That's like architects building things out of cardboard in foam core and.
00:36:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:36:38
E 🎅
and working things to scale and CAD models. And then you you go and build the thing with a router jig and you go, oh, that wall is too thin and it keeps blowing up on me.
00:36:50
E 🎅
So you learn information on V2 that you can then apply to V3 when you get it into full production and it works.
00:36:57
Mary
Mmhmm.
00:36:58
E 🎅
but
00:36:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Just as just a small note, I think a lot of early woodworkers are too hard on themselves. They're like, when they get to V3, they're like, oh I was so dumb. I don't know why I didn't come to this directly. Like, why was it so hard to come to this? Like, why did it take me so long? And it's like, because You can't start at V3 every time.
00:37:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All of us have to go through V1, V2, and they're like dinging themselves.
00:37:23
E 🎅
Hmm.
00:37:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
There's like, Oh, that was so stupid.
00:37:24
E 🎅
Yeah.
00:37:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I built it that way to begin with.
00:37:25
E 🎅
Yeah.
00:37:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's like, yeah, but you wouldn't have come to that had you not done it. You got to pay the Piper sometimes.
00:37:31
E 🎅
Is. Yeah, i I mean, every time, I think I think that's an excellent point.
00:37:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:37:36
E 🎅
um Is that a thing that's unique to us? Like I, I i don't think it is.
00:37:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, no way.
00:37:42
E 🎅
I don't think it is, but, but, but I see it the most obviously in woodworkers and like it happens every where they're like, ah, this is it's the same thing as when the woodworker is like, Oh, this piece was great, but look where I fucked this up.
00:37:58
Mary
yeah
00:37:58
E 🎅
Like that's it's, it's that same thing, right?
00:37:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and that's That's every word worker, Eric.
00:38:01
E 🎅
Right. And so like. Is that a thing? It's not obviously unique to us, but why do we do it so much?
00:38:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, I don't know.
00:38:09
Mary
That's, I mean, that's my every day in my day job.
00:38:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't have an answer.
00:38:14
Mary
It's literally like, I can tell you the process. I designed something, I see some user use them like, you idiot, why don't you get it? And then I'm like, it's a flawless design. I think you're completely wrong.
00:38:25
Mary
But then obviously I have to check my ego and then iterate based off of their feedback. And then like five versions later is when we actually get to the thing that most people understand how to use. And my ego is
00:38:37
E 🎅
That's, that's very interesting, Mary.
00:38:37
Mary
severely diminished by then.
00:38:41
E 🎅
That's because it's the same process from the opposite perspective, right?
00:38:44
Mary
Yep.
00:38:45
E 🎅
It's like i I fucking nailed this and you're an idiot for not being able to use it.
00:38:48
Mary
Yeah, exactly.
00:38:51
E 🎅
That's really interesting.
00:38:52
Mary
I'm a terrible researcher because whenever the you're supposed to be as like neutral as possible and like my eyes are bugging out like, aren't you doing the thing I want you to do?
00:38:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:38:53
E 🎅
yeah
00:38:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:39:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mary, can we talk about your ego for the rest of the episode?
00:39:04
E 🎅
Oh, my Christ.
00:39:09
Mary
It's just every day is a constant stepping on my ego.
00:39:11
E 🎅
ah so Speaking of Mary's ego, this this was really funny. Earlier today, I was listening to a couple of different like YouTube clips of creative people talking about the creative process and repetition. And one of them was Gene Wilder in like an open format interview.
00:39:29
E 🎅
And the the interviewer asked him to ah she was like, could you talk about X and like, you know, can you define X? And like he he wrote like visually rolled his eyes on stage. And she she was like, I know nobody wants to go first. And he was like, no, I fucking hate definite defining things. Like, can we not?
00:39:51
Mary
Incorrect, absolutely incorrect.
00:39:52
E 🎅
He was like, it doesn't make any sense in a creative context to define things defeats the entire purpose. And I was like, I really,
00:39:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, Mary's a designer, Mary's a designer first, right?
00:40:02
Mary
It's not the creative part that that needs the definition, it's the idiots around me who...
00:40:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
oh ah
00:40:10
E 🎅
really showing your hands dildo.
00:40:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Um, one thing I wanted to add to the, this conversation about repetition is it's hard to really get good at something.
00:40:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I think we were just touching on this about V one, V two, V three. It's hard to really but get good at a craft and to be a very like.
00:40:29
E 🎅
Hmm.
00:40:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
experienced capable craftsperson without having done repetition. It's going to be in the thousands. How are you going to be great at something unless you do it thousands and thousands and thousands of times, right?
00:40:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You're just not going to. So I almost feel like repetition is a necessity to become excellent at something.
00:40:56
Mary
That means practice, right?
00:40:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Now you could say, It is exactly. ah The other thing I wanted to mention is, I think, funny enough, I was asking, like, what brings me to repetition? Like, what, what pulls me towards it? Because it it doesn't have an innate pull. Well, it's Uh, often the idea that it's like a social thing.
00:41:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like I wanted this year. I wanted, like, I saw all this wood in my shop, like a hoard of wood, and I just wanted to put it in the hands of as many people as I could get. So I made coasters upon coasters upon coasters. How many did I make?
00:41:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I made 45 sets, which have four coasters each.
00:41:34
Mary
Wow.
00:41:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So that's 160 coasters plus holders, which would be, uh, you know, another.
00:41:42
E 🎅
Another 40, so 200.
00:41:43
Mary
Are
00:41:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah. It's like hundreds and hundreds.
00:41:46
Mary
those CNC'd?
00:41:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
They are CNC, but boy, does it, it still involves a lot of handwork.
00:41:51
Mary
Yeah.
00:41:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And by the way, about the CNC, like the first time I did it, it was a fucking hot mess, tear out all kinds of problems. By the time I finished tweaking the CNC programs and changing the bits, it comes off that CNC clean as shit.
00:42:05
E 🎅
But that's 160 objects later.
00:42:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And you. Yes.
00:42:09
E 🎅
like that's That's the point of the iteration, right? like You had to do 155 coasters before you went, holy shit, I shouldn't use an up cut bit.
00:42:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:19
E 🎅
I should use a down cut bit because this these pieces these pieces are backed by the waste board, right?
00:42:19
Mary
Yeah. Wait, were you using an up cup bit?
00:42:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes. I was.
00:42:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:42:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:42:26
E 🎅
But it took like that's that that is the that's the value of production right there because not only is that applicable directly to the coasters,
00:42:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:36
E 🎅
everything else you make on the CNC from now until you get rid of that fucking CNC you're gonna be like obviously I should be using a down cut bit.
00:42:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yep.
00:42:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I will never get rid of it just for the record. And the second thing, the second thing that, and and the the thing the thing that brings me back to it, and you probably aren't expecting this answer, is my kid, my kids, okay?
00:42:47
Mary
It won't die with me.
00:42:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
My daughter, she wants to make money. She's like, dad, let's make some chopsticks together for the 80th time. And so every time we make a run of chopsticks, that's how she makes her money that she like for gas money and going out with her friends.
00:43:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and she wants to do something we've done before because she wants that efficiency gain she wants to get in there she wants to make the chopsticks and she wants to cash out right as that.
00:43:16
E 🎅
Sure. Sure. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup.
00:43:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And so funny enough, she's what brings me back.
00:43:23
Mary
ah Yeah, I get that.
00:43:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And we've gone through so many efficiency gains because she don't wants to get in, do the shit,
Summarizing the Role of Repetition in Creativity
00:43:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and get out. And more recently, my neighbor's kid, he came home from college.
00:43:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
He just went to college. This is his first year. He came home for Thanksgiving. And he's like my own son. I've known him since he was born. And he's amazing. His name's Owen. um Owen was like, and I offered to his parents previously that if any point Owen wants to learn how to work with his hands, I will absolutely take the time to work with him on something.
00:43:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So he comes home from college and he's broke as shit. and And Owen says, you know, hey, maybe, you know, could it do a project in the shop with you?
00:44:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And I was like, okay, we're going to do another round of coasters.
00:44:10
E 🎅
Ruby was like, you know how much fucking money I just made on these chopsticks, why don't you get in that shop, that one?
00:44:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And at first my daughter was like, bitch, back up off my Kool-Aid.
00:44:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But, but Owen, Owen's like her brother. So it was okay. And so that's why I did the second round of 22 sets of coasters was not because I felt like it at the time, but it's because I wanted Owen to have an opportunity to make some money, work with his hands.
00:44:32
Mary
Oh, interesting.
00:44:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And here we are.
00:44:39
E 🎅
Mm.
00:44:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Isn't that weird?
00:44:40
E 🎅
Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's funny how things work.
00:44:42
E 🎅
It's it's what I what I love about that is the like she is at a point in her life where she obviously doesn't want to spend more time doing a thing that she has to.
00:44:56
E 🎅
But like we know we know the joy she and she might not have any joy in it right now. who know You know, she's a teenager a little bit like just
00:45:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
she ah she She enjoys the time with me.
00:45:07
E 🎅
Sure, sure, sure.
00:45:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:45:08
E 🎅
But they're like, there is something about the act that will stay with her for the rest of her life too.
00:45:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:45:15
E 🎅
And like, realistically, like, whether she actually takes up woodworking as a hobby or not, but like, those are the things that drive us like she will
00:45:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We know that.
00:45:24
E 🎅
she will likely do something creative as a hobby in her future iteration of herself, because of the time she spent with you ah in that shop.
00:45:35
E 🎅
And there's so many people who like have a child who would be like, well, yeah we don't want you to learn CNC woodworking. And like, that's not the fucking point, dog.
00:45:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:45:44
E 🎅
The point is that they're in the shop making shit.
00:45:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
00:45:47
E 🎅
You know,
00:45:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I agree. It just felt like a win-win, both for Ruby and my neighbor's son, Owen. It just felt like a win-win.
00:45:55
E 🎅
That's awesome.
00:45:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, so with that, we're at our 45-minute mark.
Crafting a Humorous Woodworking Movie Plot
00:46:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We've talked, you know, that repet to like to summarize, you know, repetition makes money, ah number one.
00:46:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
it's That's when you make your money.
00:46:07
E 🎅
Yeah.
00:46:09
E 🎅
Yep.
00:46:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Number two, It can lead to downtime because you're only using like part of your brain where you can either listen to a podcast, you can enjoy yourself, you can think about version two, version three, you can think about efficiency gains, and that speaks to the value of it. is like it's not you may You may cast it away as it's always not a creative process, but it is creative just in a different way. It's not creative about the form of the object, it's creative about the process and the efficiency gains of the object.
00:46:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So next time you have a production project in mind, ah you know, don't rush it. Take your time and try to find the joy in it for those reasons.
00:46:52
E 🎅
Yeah. And like, listen, Hey, turn off the podcasts, turn off the music, just raw dog the shop for a little bit and just, just get in there and just like, just see what happens.
00:46:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ra dog
00:47:04
E 🎅
You know, just like set a timer for 30 minutes and, and sit there with the shops and listen, where are your ear protection? But you know, like sit there with the shop sounds and just make a thing.
00:47:16
E 🎅
And I am I would be genuinely curious to hear from listeners if they spend 30 minutes of their shop time every week in silence to see like what ideas come up or what like what new iterations of the process comes up because that dead time is where ah iteration happens.
00:47:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Great. I excellent Eric. Um, okay. So with that, we'll end our first segment and now we have a first.
00:47:48
E 🎅
oh Guys guys guys. All right. All right. So we've got our first ah sponsor on the on the pod um First ever I know I know So here's what I want to do I as we established early on in this episode can't seem to move my screen in any way whatsoever So I can't pull up the actual information um But we're gonna
00:47:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
First ever.
00:47:57
Mary
Wow.
00:48:10
Mary
Can you pull up on your phone?
00:48:11
E 🎅
we Yes, I can. That's a good poll. um So we're going to do a segment called ah Hometown for the Holidays. So here's here's how this is going to work. ah Our dear friend ah Bill Burkel or my dear friend in yours.
00:48:30
E 🎅
ah He owns a place called WTB Woodworking in Huntington Valley, PA, which is 30 to 40 minutes outside of Philadelphia where Mary and I live. And I've worked with the Bill before.
00:48:43
E 🎅
He's a delightful person. Mary was at his grand opening, correct?
00:48:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm hmm.
00:48:46
Mary
Yeah, it's great. It was awesome.
00:48:47
E 🎅
Wonderful. So, so Bill and WTB are the sponsor of this particular episode, but instead of just doing a fucking boring ass ad read like KJ and the shop sounds podcast.
00:49:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, did you just you did not you You did not
00:49:02
Mary
Oh! Shots fired! I didn't know that was gonna happen.
00:49:06
E 🎅
here's Here's what I wanna do. I love you, KJ, so much. I love you, buddy. You're a hero. Here's what I wanna do. I want to make this into a Hallmark movie pitch. So, Hometown for the Holidays is the name of the movie, okay? And what I need Paul and Mary to do with me is to, I wanna create an elevator pitch.
00:49:26
E 🎅
We're like, if this is a holiday movie and ah our our lead character, our our hero of the movie, ah let's let's name her Marie.
00:49:38
E 🎅
I don't know why we would do that.
00:49:40
Mary
That's way too close to my name.
00:49:40
E 🎅
And and she she leaves a small town called, I don't know, ah Lancaster, Massachusetts.
00:49:46
Mary
I don't like this. I don't like this at all.
00:49:50
E 🎅
so go take to go to the to go to the big city and get, I don't know, a job in tech or something like that.
00:49:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:49:51
Mary
No.
00:49:56
Mary
Oh no, I hate you so much.
00:49:57
E 🎅
And then and then then she comes and she comes back to her hometown ah for the holidays because she she has to come back for, I don't know, a pie baking contest.
00:50:11
E 🎅
um And ah she she has to meet in ah you know Huntington Valley for some reason.
00:50:21
E 🎅
We have to pitch this movie. How are we going to build this this character arc? What are we doing here? Let's go.
00:50:25
Mary
Oh my god. Okay, first off, don't appreciate the extreme similarities to me.
00:50:29
E 🎅
I don't understand what you're talking about, Mary?
00:50:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
but
00:50:32
E 🎅
So what is Marie doing when she leaves her a hometown of Lancaster, not Lancaster, Lancaster, Massachusetts?
00:50:33
Mary
I'm Mary from Lancaster.
00:50:39
Mary
Oh, okay.
00:50:42
E 🎅
She goes to the big city, she comes home, she's engaged to a guy named Jareth.
00:50:42
Mary
ah
00:50:47
Mary
Yeah, who like who can?
00:50:47
E 🎅
And she, Chad, Chad, okay.
00:50:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Chad, Chad. Oh, come on, Chad.
00:50:49
E 🎅
He's a giga Chad because she's in tech, that makes sense. Okay, I like it.
00:50:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Chad.
00:50:54
E 🎅
So he she comes home to Lancaster and she is, I mean, listen, Jareth is a real dick.
00:50:59
Mary
And her boyfriend clearly doesn't come with her because he's way too busy.
00:51:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Chad,
00:51:05
E 🎅
Oh, sorry, Chad, giga Chad.
00:51:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
chad dude, Chad has a yacht that he's, he yeah, he's got to put it, he's got to put the yacht in dry dock on, yeah, obviously, because, it yeah, if you're sailing around Nantucket all the time, you have to, you have to like dry dock your yacht, yeah.
00:51:08
E 🎅
Chad.
00:51:12
E 🎅
He's, he's got, yeah, he's got a winter, the yacht, obviously. Like, what's he gonna?
00:51:22
E 🎅
Okay, all right. so so So Chad is busy dry docking the yacht to make sure that his boat shoes stay shined.
00:51:24
Mary
Okay.
00:51:30
E 🎅
And so so marie Marie comes back to Lancaster and ah she, what like what's the reason that she comes into a Williams woodworking shop?
00:51:30
Mary
Okay, okay.
00:51:42
Mary
Oh, no, no, no, we're missing the most important part first, where she arrives into town and a car drives by and splashes her with water, and then she gets all really upset, and the guy rolls down his window and is like, haha, sucks with you, and then, you know, she's like, wow, what a dick.
00:51:44
E 🎅
Oh,
00:51:50
E 🎅
oh i've obviously, obviously.
00:51:57
Mary
Okay, after that.
00:51:57
E 🎅
but it's small town America, so he's in a truck, right?
00:51:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm Well Now
00:52:01
Mary
Yeah, exactly, yes.
00:52:01
E 🎅
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, all right.
00:52:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
who who is driving that truck Mary do we know okay, okay, okay
00:52:05
E 🎅
It doesn't matter, it's so some some guy.
00:52:07
Mary
No, it's gonna be the romantic lead.
00:52:08
E 🎅
um Oh, oh, it's it's William.
00:52:11
Mary
She's like, yeah, like she he pisses her off first, so then they're like, butting heads, and then, uh, ooh, it's a good point.
00:52:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's what I thought.
00:52:14
E 🎅
Oh, shit. does it Hold on, hold on, does William recognize Maria first?
00:52:22
E 🎅
or Or is he like on his way to the local dive bar?
00:52:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, he's not going to a dive bar. He's delivering. Dude. Yeah, but he's not.
00:52:26
E 🎅
And then Maria's like, oh, now I'm soaked and cold and I need a drink.
00:52:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
no he's not going to a dive bar hes he's delivering
00:52:29
E 🎅
So she goes to the dive bar. Obviously they, listen, they meet playing pool at the dive bar.
00:52:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
dude
00:52:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah but he's not
00:52:37
E 🎅
And then he's like, oh, I own WTB woodworking.
00:52:42
E 🎅
It's so much has changed since high school. You didn't know that I'm like, I'm trying to save the local rec center through my woodworking abilities.
00:52:51
Mary
And then and then her her parents are like, go get a slab, like a live edge slab. We need to make the holiday table look nice.
00:52:58
E 🎅
Yes, there it is. They're like, oh, our dining table just broke because of an argument that you got in with your brother, and now we need a new dining table.
00:53:00
Mary
So send one girl to get a huge ass slab.
00:53:07
E 🎅
Yes. So she's like, where can I go to get a dining table last minute? And she's like, wait a second. I just remember that William said he runs a woodworking shop now.
00:53:15
Mary
Yes.
00:53:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, he's the one who splashed me when he's driving by with a truck full of, full of raw slabs.
00:53:19
Mary
Yes.
00:53:19
E 🎅
Yes. ah dick Guys, I'm not lying.
00:53:21
Mary
Exactly.
00:53:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes.
00:53:22
E 🎅
This is turning out to be a good movie so far.
00:53:24
Mary
Yes.
00:53:24
E 🎅
So.
00:53:25
Mary
And you know what happens in the store?
00:53:25
E 🎅
so
00:53:28
Mary
Uh, she, she gets something and then she drops it and then he goes to pick it up and their hands touch.
00:53:33
E 🎅
Oh, they bump heads.
00:53:34
Mary
And then that's the, that's the turning point of the movie guys.
00:53:34
E 🎅
Oh, they touch. ah Okay.
00:53:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Ding, ding.
00:53:37
E 🎅
All right. All right. So hold on. Hold on. Hold on. So she walks into WTB woodworking and like the little bell goes off above the door.
00:53:44
Mary
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:53:44
E 🎅
Right. Because because it's just it's just William and he's just in there like hand planing a slab for some reason.
00:53:52
Mary
Even though he's running the store Also he Okay
00:53:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric? Eric, did we not talk about efficiency gains in this episode? What are you fucking doing hand planting a slab?
00:53:59
E 🎅
Yes, but it's it's it's small town America.
00:54:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Fucking dildo bag and swag fin.
00:54:05
E 🎅
is this
00:54:09
E 🎅
He owns a mill, but he's got a hand playing a slab because he's a good, good handsome boy. He's a good, good handsome boy. All right, so so she walks in, the little bell goes diggling, and and he's hand playing a slab. And so she is like, hold up, my my dining table just broke.
00:54:27
E 🎅
Uh, what can I do? And he's like, well, listen, here's, I'll tell you, I like, I, I've got saw stops. I've got Fez tools. I've got shapers. I could probably like build you.
00:54:39
E 🎅
I listen, I source local trees and slab them and then dry them in the kiln. And I could probably plain one down shirtless and put some Rubio monocoat on there for you real fast.
00:54:50
E 🎅
Be.
00:54:50
Mary
The shirtless is required.
00:54:51
E 🎅
because because my name is Will and I'm a good good woodworking boy. How do you feel about that? And that's when she reaches she was like, Oh, is this Ruby? And that's when their hands touch.
00:55:01
Mary
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:55:03
E 🎅
Right? Okay. Okay, I'm with you.
00:55:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my god.
00:55:05
Mary
Cue of the music. That's, yeah, that's when it happens.
00:55:06
E 🎅
Cue the cue the music. Okay, so so that then we cut away. And then it's like a montage of like her in other places, him in other places.
00:55:17
E 🎅
And then is there like
00:55:18
Mary
Ooh, they do ah they do a a scene like Ghost with the ceramics except this except it's handplaining where she's...
00:55:24
E 🎅
Hold on, hold on, hold on. We just went from they just touched hands and now they're like, they're about to fuck in the shop.
00:55:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, he's like around her.
00:55:32
E 🎅
Like, we have to we have to we have to have some transgression in the middle.
00:55:34
Mary
I see nothing wrong with this.
00:55:38
E 🎅
We can't just have a fuck montage.
00:55:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric?
00:55:43
Mary
I was too eager, sorry.
00:55:44
E 🎅
Okay. All right. We're getting there. We're getting there though.
00:55:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my god.
00:55:47
E 🎅
Okay. So ah so so what else?
00:55:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Bill, Bill.
00:55:53
E 🎅
Bill's loving this. Bill.
00:55:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Bill, I'm so sorry.
00:55:57
Mary
No, no, no, this is this this this is good.
00:55:59
E 🎅
This is great. oh where He's so so William is building the table and Marie like what happens next with Marie and her family because we need some other tension like okay so they that they're back and she's like maybe but then she he has to piss her off again before she comes all the way around.
00:56:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. yeah
00:56:20
E 🎅
right like You have to have the turn. so what happened like does Does he show up with with a slab and she's like, why why would you possibly have thought that I wanted you to use micro jig products on this slab and undercut on this?
00:56:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well.
00:56:37
E 🎅
like There's bloom hardware on this table and they're like that makes no sense, sir.
00:56:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my god.
00:56:45
Mary
This is so specific.
00:56:49
Mary
Wow, Hallmark would not hire us. I'm not gonna lie.
00:56:51
E 🎅
um' home I'm not going to lie. the The first half of this movie Hallmark would absolutely buy.
00:56:57
Mary
but That's true that is true if it's like a woodworker of any sort True
00:56:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:57:02
E 🎅
Okay. Okay. So that's all you're going to give me. So, so William does something to upset her. And then apparently there's a montage.
00:57:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Well, we need some hardware to build the table, yes.
00:57:14
E 🎅
Yeah. Like you need hardware, right?
00:57:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah What kind of hardware does Bill have for his lady?
00:57:20
E 🎅
Uh, well, he's got, uh, things from deerwood. He's got bloom. Uh, if you want to lamello this slab, day if you want to do a book match, but don't want to commit to a glue up, you could lamello, uh, the, the slab together.
00:57:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I feel like Keith's head should pop out when you say lamello.
00:57:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:57:37
Mary
Keith has a cameo in this Hallmark movie.
00:57:39
E 🎅
where Absolutely. As a cameo in here.
00:57:43
Mary
Along with Jerry and Mola.
00:57:44
E 🎅
Yeah, ah he's definitely finishing this table with Rubio as we've already established.
00:57:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:57:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I think he tries to make a pitch to marie mary mary mary Marie that, you know, he's all about the little guy.
00:57:54
E 🎅
Marie Marie.
00:57:57
Mary
Excuse me.
00:57:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like he wants to help ah like cut, you know, brands that are just trying to make their way in the business.
00:57:59
E 🎅
Yes, yes, he's a he's a good guy.
00:58:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:58:03
E 🎅
He's a good guy.
00:58:04
Mary
True. Okay.
00:58:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Um, so we have stated wood company.
00:58:06
E 🎅
So
00:58:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
He's like, yeah, I work with them. I try to help them out. Um, temple tool company, you know, he's, he's like, yeah, they just put out this amazing cool, uh, Asian, uh, or Japanese style pull saw.
00:58:14
E 🎅
Mmm.
00:58:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And we carry that because we care about the little people and he's trying to like show her that he's like the thoughtful guy because he cares about the little person.
00:58:23
E 🎅
Yes!
00:58:28
E 🎅
Yes, that's what it is. but But he's not trying to show her. like He's just doing it. like He's cutting the dovetails in this, in this yes, he's showing that.
00:58:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:58:35
Mary
He's showing, not telling.
00:58:38
E 🎅
to He's cutting the dovetails in this tabletop for some reason, ah we using temple tools. And she's like, oh, that's a really cool Japanese-style saw. how did like Where did that come from?
00:58:49
E 🎅
And he's like, oh, temple tools actually makes them. They're super, super dope. And then i was thinking about I was thinking about maybe making like an extra cutting board for your parents because when my family was going through a hard time in high school, like they took me in.
00:58:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, and he.
00:59:03
E 🎅
ah so And I finished it with Bumble Shoots, like a local a local company that makes like beeswax based finishes in their kitchen.
00:59:15
E 🎅
um Because that's the kind of guy that William is.
00:59:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
He is.
00:59:17
E 🎅
you know he's just He's a down home kind of guy.
00:59:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric, I feel like he's going to.
00:59:21
Mary
Guys, this is the longest ad ever.
00:59:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, yeah. It's like, yeah, Bill, this is like 10 minutes, buddy.
00:59:26
E 🎅
This is a 15 minute ad rate.
00:59:31
E 🎅
Okay. All right. So let's wrap it up then. So, so at the end, so William delivers the, uh, table like on, on Christmas morning, right? So like there was a hiccup and he realized that there was a ah big check in the slab and he was like, I can't deliver this on Christmas Eve. So he finishes it on Christmas Eve night, like, like an elf in Santa's workshop. And, uh, he delivers it on Christmas morning, right, right as the kids are opening the presents. And that's when they fall in love, I think.
01:00:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Married Marie Marie, did you just fall in love?
01:00:06
Mary
I am not Marie, so I refuse to answer that question.
01:00:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Sorry, sorry. um umm I'm having I'm having cognitive entanglement.
01:00:10
E 🎅
Marie Marie is from Lancaster. Well, you know, what's you know, what's wild is this this whole movie has been great so far.
01:00:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, my bad. My bad.
01:00:18
E 🎅
And at the very end, what he presents to ah Marie's parents is a Festool 565 767 777 quad drive.
01:00:30
E 🎅
ah which is available from WTV Woodworking's giveaway until ah the end of the weekend after this episode comes out, which feels very, it feels, but like he, it here's a drill that you definitely, definitely want.
01:00:41
Mary
There's no better way to win over Oh my god.
01:00:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Here's a here's a quadripe you don't even know what that is
01:01:04
Mary
Wait guys, we forgot about Chad.
01:01:07
E 🎅
Oh, Chad. His name is Chad. No, no, no. So what happens is Christmas morning, Chad comes in late because he was too busy, like, docking the yacht. And then, like, and and as as Chad is like lancaster Lancaster, Massachusetts, very much inland.
01:01:20
Mary
Oh, wait, no, no, no, I got it. he he He drives his yacht up to wherever the place is Lancaster. And then together,
01:01:31
Mary
Yay, sure, whatever. But let's pretend that it's not. ah So they break up and then together the whole family disassembles this yacht using the festival.
01:01:42
E 🎅
Oh, there it is.
01:01:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The quad drive.
01:01:45
Mary
Yes,
01:01:45
E 🎅
Using the quad drive.
01:01:46
Mary
yes
01:01:46
E 🎅
They're like, you know what? Fuck Chad.
01:01:48
Mary
it's a family activity.
01:01:50
E 🎅
See, I was gonna say, I feel like, I feel like William should, like Chad should show up on Christmas morning first and everybody's like, oh, Chad's here, but William didn't deliver the table.
01:01:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my God. Oh my God.
01:02:01
E 🎅
And then as Chad is getting mad about something, William comes up in the truck and splashes some mud on Chad's boat shoes. And he gets really upset.
01:02:11
Mary
who Hmm.
01:02:12
E 🎅
And then that's when Chad is like, check this out. And then William's like, oh, you can't. But then Chad is like, don't worry. I got your boat shoes, bro. And he takes out like a buffer pad and he puts it in the quad drive.
01:02:23
E 🎅
And he just cleans up his boat shoes real quick.
01:02:27
Mary
Oh my god. Uh, yeah, I think it's- Wait, who?
01:02:29
E 🎅
and then And then they kiss. And then that's how the movie ends.
01:02:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh.
01:02:33
Mary
Chad and- Chad and Will?
01:02:35
E 🎅
Chad and Will.
01:02:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
um
01:02:38
E 🎅
ah plot twist they leave they leave marie at the house all by herself guys this is the best this is the best movie ever made if we don't win a podcasting award for this ad read i give up on the internet
01:02:42
Mary
I'll do it!
01:02:51
Mary
I think it's a slam dunk guys!
01:03:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We're never gonna get that is our first and probably last ad read ever that was atrocious and amazing all at the same time
01:03:10
Mary
I think it's a slam dunk.
01:03:10
E 🎅
i i feel I feel like we gave Bill his money's worth.
01:03:15
Mary
Oh my god.
01:03:22
E 🎅
so so That might be the best thing we've ever done on the internet collectively.
01:03:23
Mary
Oh man.
01:03:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah Okay, well we we were gonna have another segment, but I don't think we can after that
01:03:32
E 🎅
No, we're saving a we're saving orre saving unpopular opinions for the after show now.
01:03:34
Mary
Yeah.
01:03:41
Mary
You gotta have a plot twist!
01:03:41
E 🎅
I just... I... I... I... I regret nothing.
01:03:49
Mary
Oh my gosh!
01:03:52
E 🎅
ah Okay.
01:03:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
all right so
01:03:53
E 🎅
So, do we have patrons to thank?
01:03:55
Mary
Not after this!
01:04:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah want to thank her
01:04:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
eric Why do you have to do that to me? Oh god. All right. I'm crying. I'm a little crying Okay.
01:04:14
E 🎅
Oh, Christ.
01:04:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. I want to thank ah to get serious. Okay. Well, I wanted to
01:04:21
E 🎅
I want to thank Bill Berkel as to who I want to thank.
01:04:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah bill Bill, I hope you enjoyed that because if not, I'm going to apologize in advance. All right. I want to thank our patrons in the last week or two. We've had quite a few. I want to thank Nikita Wolf-Murray, Scott, Jess Why, John Freiburg, and Ezio Epilepsia. ah Thank you guys for supporting us. And as you know, or if you don't know, what ah supporting us on Patreon does is it gives you access to the Video feed so you can see us It gives you the video feed so you can see us absolutely dying
01:04:24
Mary
True.
01:04:55
E 🎅
It allows us It allows us to make great content like what you just heard for the last 15 fucking minutes great segment idea
01:05:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And it also um we can give you access to the after show. In today's after show, what we're gonna be talking about is a segment my wife proposed during dinner tonight. That's how fresh it is. She's like, how about you do a segment called Unpopular Opinions and you just let it rip. And I said, that's amazing. And I pitched it to the other two and they liked it too. So we're gonna move to the after show.
01:05:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
now to talk about unpopular opinions. Um, but before we go, want to thank everyone for your, uh, continued support. Uh, I've, you know, if you can tell, if you would like this podcast, uh, would you do us a favor and tell someone new who hasn't listened to it that you like it, that will help us grow the audience.
01:05:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Um, that, and yes.
01:05:56
Mary
Also, feel free to submit questions, by the way, that we could answer, we might answer in the after show.
01:06:01
E 🎅
Yeah, fair point.
01:06:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yes
01:06:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And if you haven't,
01:06:04
E 🎅
And also feel free to point those new listeners to this episode.
01:06:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and do not, do not do that. And if you if you care to give us a rating on Spotify and our Apple Podcasts or YouTube Podcasts, I just realized there were some reviews there that I had never read before. And so ah you know for the people that left them, thank you. And if you could give us a rating on those, that would also ah help us. So we hope you found tonight's discussion on repetition and finding creativity in that useful. And we really hope you enjoyed the Hallmark movie.
01:06:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
With that, we'll...
01:06:41
E 🎅
home Hometown for the holidays. Look for it on a Hallmark 2025.
01:06:45
Mary
No!
01:06:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Me and Eric and Dildo Baggins will see you in the after show.
01:06:50
Mary
No!
01:06:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Bye!
01:06:50
E 🎅
Okay, bye!
01:06:52
Mary
No!