Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
MURDER - Kelly Ann Bates
264 Plays2 years ago
Today's episode is one of the most brutal we have covered, it is uncomfortable to listen to, but the topic is SO important and dear to both Lisa & I.
Kelly Ann Bates was a young girl growing up outside Manchester England when she was swept off her feet by her first love. But as secrets and lies come to light, and bruises start to be seen, the story takes a dark and horrific turn when her boyfriend turns himself in for accidentally killing Kelly during 'physical' displays of their love.
TRIGGER WARNINGS: if you are currently or have gone through a domestic abuse relationship, please listen with care
Advocates at the National Domestic Violence Hotline are available 24/7 at the number 800-799-7233 and they have over 200 languages.
For tid-bits and extra contents and/or photos come visit us:
Facebook: TwistedTales True Crime
Instagram: TwistedTales_Pod
And please know as stated on the episode, if you need someone to vent to or look up resources, please email us at [email protected]
Recommended
Transcript
Welcome and Light-hearted Banter
00:00:07
Speaker
Well, hello and thank you for tuning in for another episode of Twist Tales with Faith and Lisa. And we're back to our regularly regularly scheduled broadcast. That's a hard word to say. You try to regularly regularly regularly scheduled broadcast. I move my mouth when I talk. I do not like to mumble like Boom Howard runs in the family. Well done.
00:00:34
Speaker
King of the Hill reference even though I never really watched it but you know what else? I kind of miss rock paper scissor. I know I do not. I miss losing.
Personal Struggles and Somber Insights
00:00:42
Speaker
Although even with two weeks to prepare like I still typed mine out yes still this morning at three o'clock in the morning like I knew the case but. You're psychotic. Notes are important. My life is falling apart right now. Happens. Yeah it does.
00:00:58
Speaker
Well, you know, that was really a miserable intro, by the way. It was a really depressing, actually. Well, it sets the tone for the evening. Let me tell you, I'm going to need you to get some pep in your step. Last week, you told us a horrible story from Japan. I did. But he got the pair of despair. He did get the pair of despair. Oh, the pair of despair will not be enough at the end of this episode.
Cultural Misconceptions and Listener Preferences
00:01:24
Speaker
And folks, no matter how much I ramble,
00:01:27
Speaker
You're not going to be OK. Yeah, there's not going to be there's no OKness. No, there's not even a little bit of OKness. We are going to Britain to the art of the United Kingdom. I've heard it said both ways. Apparently it is not interchangeable and they don't like that. So sorry. But we have a lot of we have a lot of listeners. So what's the preferred?
00:01:47
Speaker
One of them involves having like Scotland and a few other like smaller places lumped in right right out of kingdoms, which we are not in we're in actual Britain. So we're just going to go with Britain and I keep wondering and call it New England. That ain't correct in a great old England.
Stereotypes and International Listener Appreciation
00:02:08
Speaker
New England's over here in America.
00:02:12
Speaker
And you wonder why they think people from the south are stupid. I'm just saying, OK, like they're like, oh, they just suffered a horrible tornado. Let's interview that guy. And I'm doing the whole bubble with his one tooth. We're going to interview that guy. And I'm doing this episode in Britain because we have listeners and here I am like butchering their their information.
00:02:39
Speaker
You're doing great. Yeah, I'm not. I'm so sorry. You're doing great, yep. That's why people from other countries also think we're stupid. Yeah, but hey, if you're from another country besides America, thanks for tuning in, even if it's just the laugh at us and our accents, whatever. Yeah, ma'am. So without further ado, this case, guys, this case, I'm going to warn you, usually don't do trigger warnings.
Trigger Warning and Light-hearted Story
00:03:06
Speaker
But this case is brutal. It is triggering for anyone who doesn't even have triggers. It's gonna stay with you like a horrible piece of candy.
00:03:18
Speaker
And I only say that. Sorry. Side note. Stuck in your teeth. No. OK. So you said I didn't have enough pep in my step at the beginning. So I pick up my child from school today to drop her to aftercare because that's my life. And she had the bag from Chunker Treat last night. Oh, God. She said, Mom, could I have a piece of candy? I said, yes, one piece. That's it.
00:03:37
Speaker
So she pulls out this candy that I've never seen before. Like I have no idea what it is. It's called like the Kraken or something. It's yellow and bumpy. It's weird looking, but it's like a gummy bear type of thing. So whatever. She said, can I have this? And I said, sure. She said, um, is it sour? And I said, I don't know. I don't, I've never had that candy.
00:03:52
Speaker
So she takes a bite out of it and her face immediately like puckers. Oh, man. And I said, is it sour? And she said, we're not window. So I rolled down the window for it and she spit it out the window. OK. Throws the candy. And I said, was it sour? And she said, no, that was not candy. Tastes like a fart from an old man's butthole. Like what? We don't talk like that. It tastes like a fart.
00:04:20
Speaker
But first of all who who's old man I have no I don't mind bomb and fart says she my boss and he goes What old man has been farting on your child and I was like, I don't know besides my husband But I feel like should have more pink eyes So anyway, that's why I was that analogy not thinking I hadn't shared that story. So there's your laugh the last one you'll have tonight Anyway, um, well that does that depends if I get lost. Yeah, you are it could be funny. So I
00:04:47
Speaker
This case is going to stay with you for a while.
Serious Discussion on Intimate Partner Violence
00:04:50
Speaker
It is one of the worst cases of intimate partner violence that I've ever heard of. Ever.
00:05:00
Speaker
even fictitious in movies. So like 50 shades. Oh, no, no, my friend. If you are if you have are currently living through a domestic violence situation, please know there is help for you. It'll be posted in the show notes. I will be doing posts on Facebook and Instagram.
00:05:20
Speaker
with resources and links for you. And please know that there's help out there, which again, I'm going to hit kind of on the end. I'm going to do lots of posts. Also, I just want to speak to those who are living through it.
00:05:35
Speaker
And I want you to know that you're loved, you're worthy, and you didn't do anything deserve what you're currently going through. And we are very, very sorry. So if you have lived through or currently living through domestic violence or intimate partner violence situation, and you just can't, hey, we get it. Love you guys. See you next week. So there's that.
00:06:04
Speaker
So I want to do a little bit of education because I feel like it's going to be important on intimate partner violence.
00:06:13
Speaker
There are multiple forms of abuse, as we know in any relationship. Not all abuse. Physical, mental. Yep. There are three categories. Emotional. There's emotional, also known as mental mistreatment. It's a form of abuse where abusers like to make their partners feel mentally or emotionally hurt or damaged. The intent, which is important, I feel like, of this abuse is to gain power and control by forcibly changing someone's emotional state.
00:06:39
Speaker
There's physical abuse, which occurs when your partner physically injures you in some way, examples, pushing, shoving, slapping, punching, kicking, choking, physically restraining you.
00:06:50
Speaker
There's also verbal. Verbal abuse, and I'll cite my source in a minute for all this, but they say it's not as straightforward as the other forms of abuse, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. While verbal abuse can be hard to identify, there are various types to be aware
Understanding Abusive Relationships
00:07:05
Speaker
of. Number one is being blamed for your partner's abusive behavior. It's your fault he hits you. It's your fault he talks down to you. Being subject to mean or hurtful remarks that are meant to make you feel bad about yourself.
00:07:18
Speaker
Gaslighting is an abuse tactic used to make you question your judgment or reality. Example is of gaslighting would be your partner telling you that they didn't do something that you know they did, but they argue it and explain it to the point where you don't even trust like your own memory anymore and you trust their words instead. Being judged down on for not meeting your partner's unrealistic expectations. So those are the three main types of abuse in subcategories.
00:07:47
Speaker
The verbal abuse thing happens a lot to kids and they don't even know it. Yes, 100 percent. And I feel like even healthy relationships can tend to have verbal abuse are like almost like a a slight gaslighting. Like Frankie, like if I hurt Frankie's feelings, I must sit there and explain to him why he is like misconstruing what I'm saying. And that's a form of gaslighting. I do it unintentional.
00:08:08
Speaker
It's human nature to defend yourself because you don't as a human. You don't want to be responsible for that. Right. So I mean, I can understand it to an extent. I'm talking like when a parent is like. What's wrong with you? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like things like that. And it's such a stupid comment. Like we called them the toothpaste comments. Yes. You know what I mean? Like you can't get it back in the tube. And I've always told my son what you know, what you say in anger you can't take back. Nope. So cannot.
00:08:37
Speaker
So I also want to explain the four cycles of abuse. It is shown a lot of times like a wheel or like a cycle like a circle cycle because it goes around. Yeah. So there is the tension stage which external stressors begin to build within the abuser. They had a bad day at work. Their car broke down something like
00:08:59
Speaker
Something like that happens in the abusers, which can be a woman or a man, abuser's life. And it grows and grows and they feel a loss of control.
00:09:08
Speaker
The person who is the target of the abuse tends to try and find ways to ease that tension to prevent an explosive outbreak, right? During this time, it's typical for the person at risk of being abused to feel anxious. They also may be overtly talking, walking on eggshells around their partners in hopes that they don't do anything to quote unquote set their partner off.
00:09:31
Speaker
There's the incident, which eventually the buildup of attention has to be released by the abuser to help them feel as though they have power and control and they begin to engage in abusive behaviors as discussed before.
00:09:43
Speaker
Um, reconciliation is where the abuser feels so bad. They didn't mean to hit you. They didn't mean to that type of things. They apologize. And it goes back into this phase is also referred to as the honeymoon stage because it mimics the beginning of the relationship when everything was good. And it's like, they love you again. And then there's the calm during the calm stage. Justifications or explanations are made up to help both partners. Excuse the abuse.
00:10:13
Speaker
And then it just goes right back in to the tension stage where things break up again. And you know, not all, you know, I have a hard time with abuse because on the one hand, you just want to look at someone and say, you need to get out, you need to get out. And it's just not that simple. And especially, I mean, let's just be honest. I know, oh, I'm sorry. I got all that information on abuse, definitions, and cycle.
00:10:40
Speaker
At very well health dot com they have a whole huge resource section really a lot of information for domestic violence are. Intimate partner violent situations but you know I have a hard time with.
Kellyanne Bates: A Tragic Story
00:10:54
Speaker
Well you should just run you should get out because it's not like you start dating someone and they just start wailing on you.
00:11:02
Speaker
It's a glorious honeymoon phase where they're sweet and they're attentive. And a lot of times it's someone that has a low self esteem that gets in these relationships and they don't feel like they have any options. And then once they know what some of them don't know, don't have families to rely on to say, you know, and even those that have a close knit family or friends, the abuser knows what they're doing and they ostracize them.
00:11:27
Speaker
And so I feel like it's easy to say you should just get out. But when you live through it, you make excuses like you can change them. You can love them enough. Number one. Right. And it's just never going to do it again. She's never going to do that. He feels horrible. It was an act. I pushed him to it. No, none of that is acceptable. None of it is right. But.
00:11:50
Speaker
I'm not going to judge anybody. Anybody that's ever lived through any kind of an addiction, whether it's cigarettes or alcohol, you'll always say tomorrow I'm done tomorrow. I'm done. Then you pick one more day, one more day. Yeah. One more night with the frogs, as Pharaoh said in the Bible. One more night with the frog. Yep. So I will say, though, when it comes to an extreme case, those are the ones that I don't get. And I understand.
00:12:18
Speaker
I understand how difficult it would be to just up and go, okay? Not even just to up and go, like to uproot your whole life and leave, but if you don't have a place to go, that's scary. It's also scary that anybody can find you in this day and age. And so there's that fear in the back of your head that if you up and go, if this person finds you, yeah. But then again, I'm kind of in this situation where I think to myself,
00:12:48
Speaker
going to kill you anyway. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's so hindsight's always 20 20 and it's so easy to say what people should do. Oh, yeah. It's so easy. The only thing I would say is if.
00:13:00
Speaker
Someone you love, or you know, or you're friends with is in an intimate partner, violent situation, whether it's verbal, physical, any of that. And they are trying to ostracize them. Number one, okay, number one, I am not a trained psychologist. I'm just going off with my gut here. So PT dubs, no degree. Don't at me. Do your research.
00:13:25
Speaker
But I mean, you can't just like go in guns blazing because you're going to make the abuse worse for that person if they're not ready to step out by themselves and leave them. But you can still drop by with like, you know, some cookies for the couple are ask them to go on walks are just you know what I mean? Like you can show up and be involved in a way that is not like going to cause more drama. Yeah. But that the abuser knows she's not alone. And that makes a big difference, I feel like in some cases.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, so well, yeah, so you could you could just knock on the door one day and just be like, hey, I just wanted to drop by, see how everything was, pull that person to the side and say, if they die, you die. You could. But then they're going to play kick the crap out of the person when you leave. If they're not ready to leave, you've just intensified the situation. So let's use our brains a little bit there, Lisa, and not aggravate. But yeah, that would be my first. Oh, no, I'd kill a person. I am.
00:14:22
Speaker
So now that the educational portion of this is over, let's get in. I like to stay where it's soft. Oh, it's getting hard quick. This is a serious case, guys.
00:14:39
Speaker
Okay, one more lap to the night. There it is. Lisa is a adolescent boy. I apologize for her sense of humor. That's exactly where it was me too. And I was like, oh man. No, I saw the look on your face the moment it fell out of your mouth. You were like. Oh, I knew. Deadpan like, dang it. I knew what I said. So. Lord.
00:14:59
Speaker
And I hope Lisa hasn't heard of this case. I know some of you may have if you're true to crime people, but our commentary might be different. Anyway, it usually is. So I am going to tell you about a, um, a girl named Kellyanne Bates. She was born on May 18th, 1978 in a town outside of Manchester to her parents, Tommy and Margaret Bates. And she was described as a beautiful, confident, bubbling, independent girl.
00:15:25
Speaker
As she grew into a teenager, she continued to have a really great close relationship with both her parents and her two younger brothers. And her mom even said like,
00:15:36
Speaker
She was kind of a tomboy so she'd go outside and play with her younger brothers like all the time. Which in my opinion, side note, shows you that she's a sweet girl because I'm pretty sure everyone in my family hated me when I was a teenager because hormones, right? Well, I always hung out with the guy, I was a tomboy. So I hung out with my brothers and their friends a lot. I didn't, I'm not saying I wasn't hormonal. Oh, I was. I'm sure I was. They tolerated me though. Yeah, right? Yeah. So when Kelly was 14,
00:16:04
Speaker
She decided to make some money the way teenage girls make money. At least I did. That's by babysitting. Oh, okay. No, nothing dirty. She came from a good household. I just wanted to say lady of the no chain. I got it out of my system. So it was 1992 just for timeframe where we're starting, which is kind of current for me. And I feel like that was only 10 years ago and it was not, but still tomato, tomato. So, um,
00:16:31
Speaker
One night, she goes to babysit with a family friend. Friends of her parents, I guess, babysits their kids. They go out on a night on the town. And at the end of the night, she meets a guy named David who walks her home just to make sure she gets home safe. Be cute. She's a teenager.
00:16:53
Speaker
Is David creepy David? Is creepy David 90? No, he's not 90. Late 30s. Let's just keep going. Of course he is. So over the next year, the once close-knit Bates family began to stretch and tear. Kelly's behavior and personality changes were at the heart of the family's problems. She started staying out really late at night. Sometimes she'd be gone all night. And let's, okay, let's have a real frank discussion here.
00:17:21
Speaker
At 14, when you're in your first big love with, you know, the high school football star, you ghost everyone. One person in the relationship is ghosting everyone. And in my experience, it's typically the girls. You spend all your time at his house with his friends and your friends just are expected to pick you up. Exactly. So that's not like her kind of pulling away from her family and spending more time with her boyfriend.
00:17:50
Speaker
I understand. I lived through that phase. I regret that phase, but it happened. Yeah. And that first love is the love of your life. Oh, absolutely. No one can convince you that you're not going to marry and procreate with this boy. Right. So that's just my experience. Whatever. However, at this point, Kelly's family are not 100% sure what's going on with these changes.
00:18:14
Speaker
because she hasn't told them she has a boyfriend. All they know is a boy from her school is calling to talk to her. His name is Dave. That's it. That's the most. But they didn't really know anything about them. So just a side note, parents out there, be nosy.
00:18:33
Speaker
If my daughter decides at 14 to start dating and staying, number one, just start dating a guy from her school, you best believe I'm gonna know everything, including his blood type. I'm gonna know his parents' blood type. I'm gonna know every house they've lived in. The only thing I might not know is the social security number, but I'll find that too. More, moreover, if your kid, 14 year old who's got this new high school boyfriend starts staying out all night,
00:19:01
Speaker
You must believe I'm gonna be involved. Like, I'm not gonna let this go on for a year without just, okay, no. And that's the thing too. It's like, it's almost like people can't have an opinion about things when they happen because it's like, you're victim shaming. You're parent blaming. Look what they went through. Look what they did. But hindsight 2020, bro. Like, you are never going to go through a hard circumstance in your life without ever thinking
00:19:28
Speaker
back on the choices you made and think, yeah, I could have done this like we all do. Well, even when I'm differently, like when I started driving, I mean, my parents never really gave me a curfew curfew. I knew I needed to be home in a reasonable hour on on school nights and on weekends. I'd stay out till one o'clock in the morning.
00:19:45
Speaker
Now I knew if I did, both my parents were going to be awake and the next morning I'd get the talk that nothing good happens after midnight. Yes. My mom said the exact words. I think it comes in the parent manual. I haven't gotten my copy yet, but I'm pretty sure it's going to be in there. I didn't realize there was manual. But you best believe if my kid is staying out all night and she's dating some high schooler, I'm going to low jack her butt.
00:20:09
Speaker
See, but here's the thing, too. And this could be totally naive of me. But if my daughter is in middle school,
00:20:40
Speaker
Children do not need their privacy respected. They need clear cut boundaries and guidance. Yeah. Agreed. I'm not saying beat your kid into submission, but I'm saying know what your kid's into and don't, oh, well, it's, I don't want to invade their privacy. Invade, invade. You need to invade their privacy. That's how people get abducted on the internet, dude. Come on.
00:20:46
Speaker
dating a high schooler.
00:21:00
Speaker
Like this, this behavior continued until Kelly was 16 when she finally sat her parents down and told them she has a very serious boyfriend that she's been dating for two years. Again, be involved. She's dated this guy for two years and you don't know anything about him.
00:21:18
Speaker
No, I'm not victim shaming. I am a judgmental person. I like to judge people. It's a it's a fatal. Oh, I enjoy judging people. I like people watching. We also, though, even in the judgment, though, when like because I can judge somebody wholeheartedly. But when Faith turns around and makes a comment.
00:21:36
Speaker
It pisses me off so bad, but I know she's right. And it's, it's, it's, uh, it goes both ways. You know what I mean? Exactly. Like it's one of those, um, uh, speak the truth and love, but not really. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So constructive criticism, if you will.
00:21:52
Speaker
I'm not judging what these people lived through. I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy or anyone like even Hitler. This is this is too low for to wish on Hitler type of like. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's kind of like what we discussed last week when you were talking about the boundaries that I'm setting for my son. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the things that I'm letting him do and explore or whatever. Yeah, it is. It's all of its nerve wracking. And you really you get tested every single day.
00:22:19
Speaker
And you can make the best decision with all the information and it still get mucked up. Yeah. So while yes, we will be talking about the decisions made and we will be giving our opinion. Know that we are not judging. Well, I could be judging, but. My heart breaks for this family, so yeah. Anyway, back to the story. Obviously, the parents want to meet this super serious boyfriend, so a generous plan.
00:22:45
Speaker
one does and the night finally comes where Dave's coming over her parents get home and standing there's Dave can you take a wild hairy guess what's wrong with Dave he's in his 30s yeah I told you he's a 32 year old grown-ass man all right dating their 16 oh wait this this right here is such an epic
00:23:11
Speaker
Like, of course she's going to be abused. Well, here's the deal. You know what I'm saying? I know, but you don't. You got to think culture differences. No, I'm not going to think culture differences. You do. I'm going to think that a 30 something year old man in that day and age in the 90s is a fracking pedophile. I literally have in my notes. Now, Lisa, before you go ballistic, it's in the notes. I can screenshot it.
00:23:37
Speaker
Um, you might need to do that just for proof. Like I did do research and my research, I mean Google, um, and the age of consent in England.
00:23:46
Speaker
is 16 instead of 18. It started when she was 14. Ding, ding, ding. Not that it makes it better because remember they've been this relationship since she was 14 and he was 30. He's a pedophile. I was going to say. Wrong. As a mom of a daughter, I can't tell you 100% what I do, but I do know that physical bodily injury would occur against said boyfriend. And here's the here is the here's the bright side of the situation.
00:24:14
Speaker
Two years. You can't get in trouble for beating your child's boyfriend up when he's an adult. So take a baseball and go. I mean, you can still get in trouble, but you're not beating a minor like. Exactly. I was just going to say that. It's like a class fistica felony or some crap like a fistica. Oh, first of all, two years, though, you waited before you could meet someone. No.
00:24:36
Speaker
no he knew he knew what he was doing interest in someone and i'm gonna know who it is everything about them is coming over i don't care if it's day freaking two
00:24:46
Speaker
Oh, you're not going out with him until I meet him. Yeah. Lojack your butt. No, I'm talking like, okay, they needed a football game. Yeah. But you're not going out with him until I meet him. You and a group of friends go out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now he's asked you out on a date. Fourteen. She's asked you out on a date. No. Yeah. So I 100% agree with your original statement, but I do understand cultural difference. Sixteen in England, you're an adult. So it's hard for us in America because
00:25:10
Speaker
It's 18. Well, I mean, it's amazing, too, because you had two years to groomer before you could even. Didn't you, though? Yeah, didn't you? Yeah. All right. So her parents had her parents knew that she was dating someone older, but they thought, again, he was in high school college most.
00:25:27
Speaker
Nothing prepared them for this her dad later stated in an interview that he did not agree with the relationship But he wanted her to be able to make her own decisions and her own mistakes again. She is at the legal age of adulthood so there comes a point where you have to let them fail and I don't think that this is the one I would choose but that's Again, I'll tell you what though I'm gonna intervene in one aspect
00:25:57
Speaker
Mm hmm. How many times have you ever dated somebody that your parents didn't like and you're like, oh, well, I'll break up with them. Never. You're not going to get that. And that's the crappiest part of all. It is not because they're not viewing this as.
00:26:11
Speaker
I'm saying this out of love to you right now that this guy is a creeper. No, I'm not saying this out of love. You cut those people out of your life when you're a teenager. You're not thinking rationally because you're so in love. Exactly. So before we even get going on like parental, whatever. And you should handle it this way or that way. Like if you're a teenager listening to this show.
00:26:32
Speaker
Listen to you. Like moms especially have a gut instinct. You're going to regret going against them. And when you get older, you're going to have the same gut instinct. Mm-hmm. When you get older, you're going to look back at the things your parents said that's not a good decision and say, man, I was an idiot. But it is what it is. And then you know what? You're going to pray desperately, even if you don't believe in God, that your kids don't make the same choices that you did. Amen.
00:26:57
Speaker
So respectfully agree to disagree, Mr. Bates, with your I'm just going to want to make your own decisions. However, it's easy for me to say that living here where age can sense. Again, again, nobody ever thinks the inhumane is what follows. Correct. You know what I mean? Yeah. So Kelly, more likely her boyfriend, Dave, made sure her parents weren't informed of the relationship or let's just say the specifics of his age.
00:27:26
Speaker
until it was too late. At this point, they've been dating two years. The parents have no recourse because they, I mean, if they went to the police and said that, you know, he grew my daughter, she's legally an adult now. There's nothing you can do.
00:27:39
Speaker
So they really are in a tight spot. Decision-wise, I wouldn't want to be there since Kelly was 16. Technically, she could just move out right then if the parent said no. So I understand that this had to be handled very delicately. But then of the day, Dave would be bleeding in my driveway. Exclamation point in my notes. Yes.
00:28:02
Speaker
Her mom said that night when she met Dave, she instantly knew something was wrong with him and every hair on the back of her neck stood up. Side note, touch your gut. And that's that gut instinct, Lisa was just talking about. I'd rather apologize later for an assumption than what happens here. So, however, even with this feeling,
00:28:25
Speaker
She said she didn't want to push her daughter away and risk losing her daughter forever by standing up against the relationship. So just kind of tried to tolerate it. And that right there is the cash 22. Yes. Big time because. You know darn well that she's got a mind of her own. She's a teenager still, which means her hormones are raging. Yeah. OK, so mom stands up, looks her in the face and said, this guy's a trash bag and daughter is just going to be like, I love him. Daughter is going to be like he has a house piece. Yeah.
00:28:57
Speaker
Yeah. It's not like she's dating some high school dropout like weed pusher that on drugs type of deal. Even just that. This is a this is a grown man. Yeah. And it doesn't even matter because she's still going to defend it because she's so dead in love with him. Because we don't we don't ever think that love comes after love. You know what I mean? Yes. And that's this is the end of humanity. I will never find anyone else like them.
00:29:26
Speaker
That's why Romeo and Juliet killed themselves. Actually, here's the best part. You'll find somebody that's nothing like them. And it's amazing. Hear, hear. So I second the motion. So at this point, the parents both decided separately and together, I guess, to give him the benefit of the doubt and try to rebuild the deteriorating relationship with their daughter and keep a relationship with their daughter.
00:29:51
Speaker
And while the parents weren't overtly friendly with him, they did say that they kind of had an ally in him. For instance, when she would stay out all night, even though it was more than likely with him,
00:30:07
Speaker
He would call and discuss her behavior with her mom and he would tell the mom, I'm concerned about what she's doing. I'm concerned that she's out all night. This doesn't need to happen. We need to deal with this. And so the parents kind of thought he would help reign her in because he's, while he's too old for their daughter, he's a responsible adult. Maybe he talks some sense and sure. Hopefully the relationship would run its course and he'd find an age appropriate.
00:30:36
Speaker
significant other type of deal, right? Right. So right now, he's just going to be another voice of reason, if you will, on getting Kelly back on track to where she was. But mind you, she got off track when she met him. So let's look at the root cause. Yeah. But again, hindsight, easy. Yeah. All right. However, Kelly's parents realized that Dave was anything but an ally with respect to their daughter very soon.
00:31:05
Speaker
So Kelly started staying over at Dave's house and he would put her on the bus. Here's some examples of what happened. He'd put her on a bus. Literally when she was opening the front door to her house, the phone would be ringing and it'd be day because he had timed exactly how long it took.
00:31:22
Speaker
for the bus when he dropped off at the bus to got home. And if her mom, if Kelly's mom answered and Kelly was not walking through the door when he called, he would lose his mind over where she at, what she doing, what's going on, like super control. I mean, hello. You timed how long it took. What if the bus broke down? That's not a factor, apparently. You know what sucks about that? What? It's like as a parent. Like, I'm not saying to that extreme, but that's what you do. Yeah.
00:31:53
Speaker
You know what I mean? That's probably not an abnormal thing for her. But that's abnormal for your boyfriend. Correct. But when you've been trained your entire life by your parents, where I need to know where you are, who you're with and what you're doing. Right. But that is basic parenting 101.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yes, it is 100% like that mentality in your head, especially with as young as she was when he started to like implement those rules, it was well that and the other thing is it kind of leads into the ally portion because
00:32:32
Speaker
he's number one he's putting her on the bus so he's making sure and then he's making sure she gets home safe and if she's not home when she's supposed to be home what happened yeah did she did she go party i mean what's going on right so on the one hand it's super controlling behavior but on the other hand you're viewing it as
00:32:50
Speaker
He's not a normal. Yeah, he's not a normal teenage boyfriend. He's an adult. So he understands the dangers of the world. And he's just looking out for her because he loves her type of deal. I feel like would be going on in the back of the mind, too. Yeah. Because if your kid's not where they're supposed to be, you want to know exactly what happened. You know, worst case. So that's all he's doing. So in the mom's mind, this is still like an ally. But I mean, it's a little controlling, but he has a valid point type of deal. Yeah. Right. And that's what that's what I'm kind of saying. It's like.
00:33:19
Speaker
So weird to think that you have to cover so many aspects with your kid. Like you always talk about stranger danger, right? Oh, yeah. And, you know, you talk about typical like, don't take candy from strangers. Adults do not need children's help. Yeah, exactly. And then you're at this age and you're in this front and it's like,
00:33:41
Speaker
I never talked to her about physical abuse. I've never talked to her about mental or controlling abuse. You know what I mean? How many parents can honestly say that when your child is of dating age, you sat them down and said, here is what is acceptable in a dating relationship and here's what's not.
00:34:03
Speaker
And it's it's about like the last thing on your mind. Yeah, it's everything else. Everything else is. Hey, if it's super late and you're in a parking garage, put your keys between your fingers. Right. I'm saying like it's all these other kinds of learning how to drive. It's getting ready for college. It's all this other stuff. Your child being mentally or physically abused is not like you just don't. Number one, we never think it's going to happen to us. Number two, it's an uncomfortable conversation.
00:34:29
Speaker
I had to have an uncomfortable conversation with my seven-year-old last night. You know about it. It was horrible. I didn't like any of it, but it had to happen. Yeah. So, I'm sorry. I'm talking too much. If the controlling behavior wasn't a trigger for the parents, because again, like we just said, it could be justified.
00:34:52
Speaker
It wasn't soon after this that Kelly would get home and she'd have bruises on her arms or legs.
00:35:01
Speaker
And she gave the typical abused wife statement that you see on TV, I fell down the stairs. I ran into a door. Things that you know are complete BS, but I mean, what do you, you can only sit there and say, tell me what happened, tell me what happened. It's easier to deny. Yeah. Then. And quite frankly, depending on the kid, if my. I'm talking both ways. Yeah. If my kid came home and said, this bruise is because I fell down the steps. I'm a believer because she falls all the time.
00:35:32
Speaker
So there's that point of it to listen to too. But everything kind of came to a head. If the parents are living in denial at this point still, this is when everything you couldn't be explained away or denied anymore. So Kelly comes home one night and the entire left side of her face is one gigantic throbbing bruise. Horrific bruise.
00:35:58
Speaker
Her mom looks at it, her whole face is covered on the left side and she said, what happened? And Kelly said, I was walking home and this group of girls jumped me and were beating the crap out of me and this old couple came and saved me. And the mom said, you know what, Kelly, that doesn't make sense logically.
00:36:20
Speaker
Number one, a group of high school girls are not going to do the horrific damage to your face that has been done. They're just not 100%. Yeah, that was in my notes too. But also more importantly, what does it make sense is if an elderly group of people, couple saw this and saved you and brought you home, number one, they're going to at least make sure you're safe inside.
00:36:44
Speaker
But more than likely with the state you're in, they would have brought you to the ER or called an ambulance. You're too, you've been beaten too badly for them to just to drop you off into the driveway and drive off. That's not how elderly people work. So and mind you, at this point, it's 1994. So we're like modern age.
00:37:06
Speaker
You know what I mean? The mom continues to push and ask. Kelly made up some other ridiculous and just basically at the end of the day, Kelly said she doesn't know. I don't know. I don't know.
00:37:18
Speaker
So it didn't really go anywhere. I mean, I feel like at this point the parents know it stays, right? There was another time Kelly comes home, her mom talked about that she had a bite mark on her hand. And I'm not talking like a little bite mark, like when you pick your toddler up and there's like, you know, just the red mark. The mother said it was so deep and vicious you could almost see the teeth imprints down into the skin. Like someone tried to take a chunk of her flesh out of her hand.
00:37:50
Speaker
And she gave, like, I don't even remember what it was, but it was the most absurd explanation, like she was trying to feed a dog. Those are clearly human teeth marks. So it's getting worse. Before long, Kelly becomes the stereotypical abuse victim you see on any Lifetime movie.
00:38:09
Speaker
or that you've lived through she stops taking care of herself um because you can't look good and leave your house because then you're trying to you know pick up other guys or cheat on him type of deals what usually they say you know plain gin so she starts losing weight she walks around defeated she won't even look her parents in the eye anymore because remember the cycle of abuse it's kelly's fault
00:38:33
Speaker
So finally, her parents put their foot down. When Kelly turned 16, so year into this relationship, they put her foot down and just say, you know what, here's the deal. You're living in our house by our rules. This isn't gonna fly more. It's 1995, 1996, she's 17. And they say, you've gotta tow the line. So at 17, Kelly packs her stuff up and moves in with Dave.
00:39:05
Speaker
So basically, parents worst nightmare came to fruition. They put the foot down, she left the same day and moved in with him.
00:39:13
Speaker
Very quickly, Kelly becomes very distant from her family. At first, there was a few random phone calls that were very short, non-committal, basically just high, high. Those faded very quickly into where they only received the occasional birthday card or holiday card. But none of the cards that came to the Bates family were from Kelly. Everything was written by day.
00:39:39
Speaker
Um, so that, I mean, everything we talked about, worst case scenario, if the parents put their foot down, his just happened. They've lost their daughter at 17 on April 16th, 1996. Um, Dave walks into a police station.
00:40:00
Speaker
goes to the front desk, he says he needs to talk to police officer and tells the police officer he accidentally killed his girlfriend while they were quote unquote going at it and she drowned in the shower. What? Yep, walks in, walks into the police station, says I accidentally just killed my girlfriend, we were going at it in the shower and she drowned. I don't know what to do. However, when the police get to the scene, get to Dave's house, what they found
00:40:30
Speaker
was something none of them had ever seen before. Hopefully they never saw again. And I'm hoping, I know it's probably happened, but I'm hoping God almighty that this is a very one time thing. And this is where I'm gonna tell you, if you do have triggers with domestic violence, I will put in the show notes when this portion is over, but I am gonna tell you what Kelly lived through.
00:40:59
Speaker
and nothing you can think you're okay you're not but she lived through it and i'm going to tell you it so police enter dave's house and i mean quite frankly just keep in mind he walked into the police voluntarily said that he accidentally drowned his girlfriend while they were having sex in the shower that's his story right yes keep that in mind while we go through what happened what's the police find all right
00:41:24
Speaker
So the police find Kelly's naked body in the shower, the point one for truth, but it's very clear she did not die of drowning. That's not, that's no. Because she'd been beaten in the head with the shower head, like the detachable shower head, she was beat in the head. If only that were it. So this murder is intense and horrific.
00:41:53
Speaker
And again, I'm gonna put it in the show notes cause we're fixing to go into it. Um, but just in case you think you're stomach strong enough, Lisa, you don't have a choice. Um, the Emmy on this case had examined over 600 victims of homicide at this point in his career. And he stated that he had never seen anything this brutal in all 600 cases. Like we always talk about, um, sorry guys.
00:42:19
Speaker
Stupid criminals, right? He's clearly a stupid criminal, but this time not funny. No, that's kind of what I'm getting here. I don't know. Like I'm fixing to go through it. And at the end, tell me how you thought you could get away saying you accidentally drowned her while you're having sex in the shower. So here is a list of what they found, what they viewed and what was determined through autopsy. She was starved for an undetermined amount of time.
00:42:49
Speaker
prior to her death. She was not given water for multiple days prior to her death. So she's weak and she's dehydrated. Not that if she was fully hydrated or fed, it would matter, but we'll get there. Her blood was found in every single room of his house. Okay.
00:43:09
Speaker
So every single room, she had over 150 injuries to her body that had occurred, had occurred over a four week period of time.
00:43:22
Speaker
The injuries included, but we're not limited to her butt and her left. The back of her left leg were damaged due to scalding hot water being poured over her, causing intense burns, which Lisa has a very large scar on her back from where she pulled over boiling water. So imagine that over the back and your whole butt and intentional. Mine was one quick swoop.
00:43:46
Speaker
Yeah, you're dumb kid that pulled water off from the stove. But to if it's intentional, I can only imagine that it wasn't one quick swoop. It was torqued. Oh, no. She had also had burns to her thighs from a hot iron like what you would iron your clothes with pressed on her legs or thighs. She had a fractured arm. Multiple stab wounds were found by knife, forks and scissors. These stab wounds
00:44:16
Speaker
were all over her body, but also into the roof of her mouth. Both knees had been crushed to prevent her from moving or running, walking, presumably. Both hands had been crushed so she couldn't fight back. She couldn't call anybody. She couldn't walk to the phone if she wanted to. There was mutilation to her ears, nose, eyebrows, mouth, lips, and genitalia.
00:44:43
Speaker
There were multiple wounds from a spade or a shovel and pruning shears throughout her body. Both of her eyes were gouged from their sockets. And then he stabbed her empty eye sockets. She was tied to a radiator by her hair and her neck during these four weeks of torture, and she was partially scalped.
00:45:09
Speaker
The pathologist stated that the eyes had been removed not less than five days prior to her murder, but no more than three weeks. So he gouged her eyes from her eye sockets and she lived like that for a minimum of five days, but up to three weeks with no eyes after he stabbed her empty eye socket. This is the state of the body that he walked in and said he drowned her on accident.
00:45:38
Speaker
The lead detective stated that he had been on the force for 15 years and had never seen anything this bad. If this isn't bad enough, just the sheer, I mean, she was alive for most of that torture. That's not post-mortem. That's four weeks of torture and hell this girl lived through. And her body was so damaged, you can't really give a timeline. You can just say, I mean, her eyes were removed five days to three weeks ago.
00:46:09
Speaker
Like and he repeatedly mutilated her to where you couldn't tell in the original onset of these things happen. OK, it's like you said, like I walked into the police station. I said we were we were, you know, banging in the shower. And suddenly. She got. I drowned her on accident. Yeah.
00:46:36
Speaker
She was partially scalped. She has no eyes. She's been beaten with blunt force trauma. Stabbed. Burned. Mutilated. Mutilated. Absolutely tortured. But you know, she just drowned in the shower. Everything else is fucked. How did you think that was gonna fly?
00:46:52
Speaker
Like in your mind, what makes you think this is what I'm gonna go with and it's gonna, I'm gonna be okay. Honestly, brutally, disrespectfully, dead people don't press charges. They don't, and I think he's so used to talking people into what he wants, like this little girl. Yeah, you're literally only going to have one side of the story. And I constantly say, there are three sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth. But I think he thinks he can talk his way out of it, honestly.
00:47:23
Speaker
So the police go to the Bates residence and have to knock on the door and tell Mr. and Mrs. Bates that their daughter has been has been murdered. And they told Mr. and Mrs. Bates that she drowned. So the dad had to identify the body. No way. Oh my God. In this condition only knowing that she drowned.
00:47:49
Speaker
After viewing the body, her dad stated not even animals mentally torture her and torture her. Yeah, he did it to her family. Her dad said not even animals would do this to you. Get to do this to one another. This man is evil, which will hardly agree. Animals don't maim for pleasure. Humans are the only ones that do.
00:48:09
Speaker
Animals don't mane. No animals killed tactically. Yeah, specifically. And they aim for what they want. Now, you might still be breathing while they're eating you. Mm hmm. OK, but there are two reasons they're doing it to eat. There are two reasons that animals attack one self-defense. Yep. Two meal. That's it. Animals don't do this. So don't sit here and say animals maim. OK, you asked for it. Yeah, she didn't know.
00:48:37
Speaker
So she had, I mentioned that she'd been starved. We don't know exactly when in these four weeks, but she had lost over 44 pounds, 20 kilograms in weight.
00:48:47
Speaker
Peter Openshaw, the prosecutor against Smith in his trial, stated it was as if he deliberately disfigured her, causing her the utmost pain, distress, and degradation. The injuries were not the result of one sudden eruption of violence. They must have been caused over a long period of time and were so extensive and so terrible that the defendant must have deliberately and systematically tortured the girl.
00:49:17
Speaker
Her cause of death was actually drowning. But she had been beaten in the head by the shower right before she drowned. So he beat her and left her in the bottom of the shower. And that she did drown, but. So she was so done, though, at that point. Oh, yeah, if she hadn't drowned, she probably died anyway. So let's get into the trial because we find out some things during the trial. Number one. David Smith, that's not his name.
00:49:47
Speaker
That's not his name at all. No. He lied about that. Surprise, surprise. His name is James Patterson Smith. Creepy Dave. That's his name. I started and I'll finish with Creepy Dave. Creepy's not strong enough. So also he was a divorcee. His previous wife that he'd been married, he married. Their relationship ended in 1980 after 10 years because he had been violent.
00:50:15
Speaker
The relationship after that was with a 20-year-old Tina Watson, whom between 1980 and 1982 he used as a punching bag, in her words, even subjecting her to severe beatings while she was pregnant with his child. She said, at first it was just now and again, just a little tap, but in the end it was every day. He would smack me in the face or hit me over the head with an ashtray. He'd kick me in the legs or between the legs, all while she was pregnant.
00:50:45
Speaker
Watson managed to escape the relationship during which Smith had attempted to drown her while she was bathing at one point. So, in 1982 is the next relationship he was in. Mind you,
00:51:03
Speaker
Kellyanne is just a child at this point, 1992, but he started seeing a 15-year-old named Wendy Mottershead, whom he also abused, surprise, surprise. In one attack, he held her head under the water of the kitchen and sink in attempts to drown her.
00:51:19
Speaker
All three of these women testified against him at the trial. Can I interrupt just for a second? Did any of them press charges against him? It wasn't really said, but they all stood up in trial. I don't know what charges there's again, too little too late. There's a lot of back and forth on they did. They didn't like there's some reports. I didn't mention it earlier just because I couldn't verify it. But when she first started coming home with bruises, her parents in a lot of reports
00:51:45
Speaker
were stated to have gone to the police and the police couldn't do anything because she was a legal adult and in a relationship of her own volition.
00:51:52
Speaker
So your hands are tied until it's too late. That's fine. You can be in a relationship of your own volition, but a relationship means, you know, huggy, huggy, kissy, kissy, we fight about money, we fight about kids, we fight about whatever. It's not scalping, burning, eye removal. I mean. Well, I haven't gotten to the best part or the worst part. You want to know what else? You want to know what else Mr. Smith lied about?
00:52:23
Speaker
No, his age. Damn it. He was really 48 years old. A year older than Kelly's father. OK. So. When he started dating her when she was 16, he was really 46. He must age very gracefully. Yeah, he was a year older than her father. That came out in trial, too. Gosh, this case just sucks.
00:52:53
Speaker
So in the trial, they went through everything. If you don't hate him already, so in the trial, if you don't hate him already, Smith denied the murder charges stating he was not guilty. He claimed that Kelly taunted him about his dead mother and had a bad habit of hurting herself to make it look worse on me.
00:53:21
Speaker
He stated she would quote unquote put me through hell winding me up. So when he was asked to explain why she had been blinded, stabbed and battered. He in a court of law on the witness stand said that she dared him to do it. She challenged him to do it. She loved the pain.
00:53:47
Speaker
And as a responsible adult, right, he never thought you cray cray. I doubt someone who likes pain would want their eyes gouged out just as a bare minimum. It's not even that. I'm literally sitting here saying in a courtroom, OK, I'm sitting here and I'm listening to this guy's testimony and I'm like, you are so full of.
00:54:11
Speaker
absolute BS hockey hockey complete okay because you're you know 89 years old and you can't just be like your parents but he's not 89 he's 48 I like to exaggerate okay
00:54:29
Speaker
Just here, have your daughter back. Right? You don't know. Right? Like there's no reason. There was nothing prompting. He is a statistic. There is no kids. They're not even married. Exactly. So I was in here and I'm like, we're just chewing on this, right? Oh yeah. You'll chew on it for a while. Try to keep my opinions to myself, but I'm sitting there thinking he's literally going to sit here in a court of law.
00:54:54
Speaker
in front of God and everybody else and say- It's her fault. She asked for it. Yeah, that's what he did. It's in the transcripts. Bro, like, first of all, hands down, hands down, you're done. Yeah.
00:55:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like, you should have been diagnosed early on in your life and put in a mental institution. Yeah. Okay. You. There's not enough bad things to say. Well, no, it's not even just that. Like, it amazes me. It absolutely amazes me that people can do what they do and then try to justify it. And people are like, oh yeah, I see that.
00:55:37
Speaker
Yeah, are you serious right now? Yeah, like I had a friend of mine at work. Tell me today about the guy You do you remember Christmas that dude ran over a bunch of people? Yeah, okay. He is literally defending himself And he's allowed to ask like victims. No questions. Nope. How's that not like right now? Are you serious right now? I don't know I
00:56:05
Speaker
All right. So, um, the Galan Mezzie is, was a consultant for the case in a psychiatric told the court that Smith had a severe paranoid disorder with morbid jealousy and lived in a distorted
Cycle of Abuse and Legal Consequences
00:56:22
Speaker
reality. Don't care.
00:56:25
Speaker
So the jury at Manchester Court, Crown Court, took one whole hour to find 49-year-old Smith guilty of Bates murder. Now in England, they don't have the death penalty. You get life in prison with a minimum of 20 years, and then basically you go out for parole type of deal. And so the judge, Mr. Justice Sacks,
00:56:52
Speaker
recommended that he gave, he gave him life imprisonment with a minimum of a 20 year term. And this is what the judge stated. This has been a terrible case, a catalog of depravity by one human being against another. You are a highly dangerous person. You are an abuser of women. And I intend so far as it is in my power that you will abuse no more.
00:57:19
Speaker
So basically, he's saying, you might have prolonged 20 years, but I'm gonna be sitting there saying, denied. At least that's what I'm interpreting and hoping. This is the first time in history that the jury were all offered professional counseling to help them deal with the distress of seeing the photographs of Kelly's injuries and the sickening violence of the case. Every single member of the jury accepted and went through professional counseling.
00:57:48
Speaker
Her poor parents, if it's not a week before Kelly was murdered, she's already been tortured and disfigured, but she was alive. Kelly's mom decided enough's enough. I haven't heard from my daughter, haven't seen my daughter. I'm going to get my daughter. I want to know with my two eyes that she's safe.
00:58:09
Speaker
And she'd made this decision in her own heart, her own mind, she hadn't told anybody. And when her sons and her husband all got home, her son said, oh hey, guess what mom? Mom says what? He said, my best friend Jimmy, we'll go with Jimmy, I don't know the name. My friend Jimmy was out at a party 30 nights ago and he saw Kelly said she's looking great. And so Kelly's mom put it off because she knew her daughter was okay.
00:58:37
Speaker
That best friend, Jimmy, obviously lied. I don't think it was intentional. Maybe he thought he saw Kelly, someone that looked similar to Kelly, but Kelly was at this point had crushed knees, crushed hands. Her eyes were probably gone because it was a week before her death and it was a minimum of five days. She's already had all this trauma and abuse. That's what she's living in. She's not going to parties. And can you imagine that mom knowing like, I could have saved her. I could have prevented her. Like, you know, that's what she thought.
00:59:06
Speaker
And I would like to say I don't all parties. Are still alive. Mr. Smith is still in prison where I hope he rots and I hope he is the prison. Bicycle where everybody gets a ride, if you will. I'm trying to say I hope they all take him on a long walk. Faith, I think we all know what you're saying right now. OK, and it's still not damaging us.
00:59:32
Speaker
No, no, I, he is, if I've ever, ever, ever seen a person where the community should get to sign a petition to have the inmate released into their care custody and control, this is him. I will sign, I will move to England and I will sign the petition, release him to me. Agreed. I'm also over here looking up like a torture that would fit. The pair of despair is too good for him. Okay.
01:00:00
Speaker
Is that what you've been doing the whole time I've been talking? No. Yes, because you've been on your phone and I've been wondering what you were doing. I keep going with this, it's called the Blood Eagle. Oh, I know this one. The Viking torture of like crazy history, right? Yeah. And apparently they, they cut open the back of the victim.
01:00:27
Speaker
They expose their innards, right? They peel their ribs from the spine to make what looks like a rib or wings. Yes. Right. And then they finish by pulling your lungs out and draping them over. And then you just die. That's too close. That's too quick for him. I don't know, man. I mean, it's kind of like you die when you die, right?
01:00:56
Speaker
I want something. There's not a torture in Vinton. No, I want something like I want him on a stretching rack where every day you stretch him and you drive a nail into a joint.
01:01:08
Speaker
All right, so every day for the rest of his miserable existence, like that, to me, is more like rat torture, where you I don't know if you've ever seen that. I saw it, I think, in a old like Italian film, of course. Oh, where you put the bucket bucket in the furious, bro. It's it's in a lot of different things. Wasn't it the furious with Eva Mendez, Paul Walker and Tyrese?
01:01:33
Speaker
When he's hungry, they watch it the other day, they put the rat on the stomach and they put a metal bucket on and they he does the right. That's not the way it's really done. There's multiple rats and they eat you alive. Yeah, I do. One, it'll take longer. And I was watching House of Dragons recently, and they would take. Like I would consider it a railroad spike, basically giant male into their hand.
01:01:59
Speaker
and nail them to a stake so they can't get out. And then the crabs on the beach would come up and start just feasting.
01:02:08
Speaker
because they've been cut up a little bit. How long does the death process take? It's a long time. I want a long time. Like what happened with Theo in the original Game of Thrones where he like all his fingernails were pulled out and he was skinned alive. Oh, no, that's the book. That's the book. Yeah. They didn't do that in real life. That's what I want. I want something horrifically painful to this man because number one, he was a predator.
01:02:33
Speaker
Notice in his dating relationship, his relationships, they got younger every time. He went with someone that didn't want to, he was trying to find the perfect age to basically gaslight them into thinking it was a normal relationship.
01:02:48
Speaker
and not running when he, you know, attempted to murder them multiple times. I know it's 2022, but I still feel like even if the government looked at me right now and said the age of consent is 14. Oh, both barrels buddy. Okay, and I will take my time in court.
01:03:06
Speaker
Oh, and be like, I did this for ABC and D reasons. Yeah. Because you're dumb. Yeah. Right. Fine. Yeah. Cuff me. No, I'll have I will happily go to jail. There's no question in my mind. I don't get it. So that is the that is the tragic, horrific, just disturbing tale.
01:03:31
Speaker
of Kellyanne Bates. I think the pair of despair. Would would be pretty decent, actually. No, I want multiple pairs. I'm talking. I'm talking like. Today, and we know it's not really called the pair of despair. Listen to the the Japan episode from last week. You'll understand. Yeah. Into the episode. At least it's done. OK. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Go ahead and just glide right past that.
01:04:00
Speaker
No, I'm about to get real gross. I don't want to. I'm going to not do that. I want multiple things like, you know, that, you know, that fish in the jungle that if you pee in the lake, it swims up the peace stream into the Melzurethra and like blows up there, whatever. Yeah. I want that first. Yeah.
01:04:15
Speaker
that I want him stretched daily with nails driven like big nails, railroad nails, driven into all his joints so he can't run away. That drawn and quartered thing, but that's too quick. I want everything that happened to her to him, but more, more. I want every day to be like Native American scalping. We're going to start there. He partially scalped her. That's what I'm saying. And then I'm going to wake up that morning and be like, what's the best way?
01:04:40
Speaker
and the most painful way to remove an eye because i'm only doing one today yeah and you know what i what i think about in that that statement uh the only thing that comes to my mind is the kevin cozner robin hood when he's like i'm gonna carve his heart out with a spoon why a spoon because it don't it'll hurt more you twit because it's dull you idiot it'll hurt more yeah that's exactly what when you said that i was like with a spoon
01:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, this I told you this case will stay with you like a piece of candy that tastes like an old man You know what the crap part of that is it probably happens like not to that extreme. Okay? But it happens to the people that are living daily. Yeah, and they just don't have a way and it's like I
01:05:26
Speaker
And honestly, when you first start out, it's roses and rainbows and unicorns and it's a magical time you're in love. By the time you get to what she endured, you're so mentally brainwashed.
01:05:40
Speaker
and down, you honestly think you deserve it. Now, I'm not saying to her degree, but when you're actually like getting beat where you're covering your face with makeup so they don't see the bruises, like you think you deserve it. You know what, they're like, especially if she's a girl who is
01:06:00
Speaker
mentally, like, strong and strong willed and courage and just bravery. She was. She was a tomboy, bubbly, independent. So I could like when he's sitting there and he said she asked for it, she asked for it. She may have. She may have been like, go ahead, do it. Just do it. Right. I don't think she had a lot of fight left in her. Maybe when he first knew all that, but maybe when he first started.
01:06:28
Speaker
But see, the deal is, is he started with the marriage, divorced her, went to a younger girl in her 20s. She left after she was pregnant. He tried to kill her and beat her multiple times. Then he went to a 15 year old. He kept getting younger. No, 15 was the next girl. That's right. Kelly was 15, 14. So he kept going younger till he got to the point where he could in my mind, this is just purely gut reaction. But I think he kept going till he got to the age where he could completely he brainwashed turn away that
01:06:58
Speaker
He was her entire world.
01:07:00
Speaker
And so I don't think he was it totally almost revolves around what I was telling you earlier when I was like You still have that kid mentality of I need to listen to my senior I need to do what my mom and dad say and they say to do this. Yeah, but I think he I think he I think he Started with mental abuse the mental aspect of it and verbal gaslighting to where She wasn't that independent strong world tomboy anymore. She was a subservient
01:07:31
Speaker
Just I deserve this. I need to please him. I've got to keep him happy. So young that it's so it's so easy to manipulate a kid. I think that's I think you look at like strongly manipulated and forced into a culture where. You know, you've got kids with like shotguns and guns and whatever shooting people, the child armies out. Yeah, it's.
01:07:59
Speaker
kind of easy to do. They're looking for a mentor. They're looking for that love. They're looking for that gap. They're looking for whatever. And it wasn't a failure necessarily on their parents part on the love aspect. It was a failure on the part of
01:08:16
Speaker
We didn't stand up in time. Exactly. We didn't. You know, he had her for two years. He brainwashed her. And the crazy thing is, is the parents, especially the mom, talked to him on the phone when he'd call. So but they thought he was a high school boy. Like they did not know he was a 48 year old man older than they were. Yeah.
01:08:37
Speaker
But he played them all. He played a long con for two years to where he became the center of her world. Her world no longer existed without him. And then when her parents, when he did start beating her and her parents finally stood up,
01:08:54
Speaker
She couldn't think of a life apart from him, so she packed up and moved in with him that day, which is exactly what he wanted. Absolutely. And then he probably started out beating her a little bit, quote unquote, softer, playing the mental head game a lot while he's ostracizing her from her family. And then by the time the real torture began, she was I guarantee she was a shell of who she was when the story started. I agree.
01:09:25
Speaker
So, I just can't, I, Mr. and Mrs. Bates, I am so sorry. You know what, no parent in the middle of that situation is ever going to know what to do in that situation. It's so much easier being an outsider looking in and being like, I would have done this. But the deal is, in this case, yeah, you don't know. They were 100% right. When she was 16 and revealed she was dating, at that time they thought a 32 year old man
01:09:55
Speaker
They said, we don't want to lose our daughter. We have to find a way to be okay with this relationship. And you know what? They were right. They got an extra year with their daughter that they wouldn't have got otherwise. Because if they had pushed her that moment, she'd have left then. There's no doubt in my mind. Agreed. So they got an extra year with their daughter because they played, they tried to play it safe because the age of consenting
01:10:18
Speaker
And England is 16. They didn't have any recourses still that way. Yes, it is still that way. Every district, whatever they call them, like what we call states, I forget what they call them there. They all set their own age of consent. But the minimum age across the board is 16. You know what I find hilarious? The age of consent is up for grabs. But when scientists talk about the developing mind
01:10:47
Speaker
Yeah. They say it's not mature until like twenty five. Yeah. So I don't. This case would. I'm not saying like you can't tell your twenty five. That's not what I'm saying. Well, we tell we tell Bella not till 30. So it, Frankie, your your brother tells our child. My son asked me. At nine. Mom, when can I date 30? I say Caleb, when you have a job. Yeah. And a car.
01:11:14
Speaker
Yeah. And you can pick her up for your date and pay for her meal. You go on a date. Yeah. Whenever that happens, it's completely up to you. Minimum 16 minimum 16. But I mean, when I first I'm not gonna lie, I heard about this story about a year ago.
01:11:32
Speaker
And I bet your bottom dollar, if he shows up with a 32 year old woman, I'm a beat her. I'm a choke the life out of her. I am going to beat her. I might be short, but I'm fearless, but I'm relentless. Yeah. So my thing is, like when I first heard this story a year ago, instantly judged the parents. Now, when I first heard the story, they didn't go into the age of consent situation. So I was like, there's no way in heck my 60.
01:12:02
Speaker
The age of consent does throw it, and the more you kind of listen to it and see the parents' response, they didn't have any options. They tried to go to the police. The police said nothing we can do. She's illegally an adult.
01:12:14
Speaker
If they had put their foot down earlier, like I said, they she'd have left earlier. They got an extra year with their daughter. Now, it might not have been the daughter that they raised because she was already a shell when she left. She wouldn't make eye contact. She's lost weight. She's shuffling around, not taking care of herself because she doesn't want to get slapped around again. Right. I mean, they can see what's happening. And there is no good answer. There isn't like the deal is.
01:12:40
Speaker
That's why I said at the beginning has their own mind and their own way of making a choice what they want. It's like everything else. Unless they want help, you can't force them to get help. All it is really is trust in another human being that they're not going to take advantage of that state. Yeah. Now, I will say the one thing that in this story that I've concluded, in my opinion, that the parents
01:13:02
Speaker
could have done better, but again, they did everything they could. They were in a rock and a hard place is like I, when I was at the beginning of the episode, I said, if you feel like someone that you love or know is in a domestic violence situation, whether it's physical, verbal, mental, just be there.
01:13:18
Speaker
Yeah, you don't have to say leave him. He's he's a jerk. He's a prick. You can do better because in that mind frame, they don't think they can anymore. Yeah. But you know what? If every few days you're consistently showing up with, oh, hey, look, I made some cookies. Here's a pie. Hey, I got this shirt for you. I thought you'd like if you're consistently in that person's life. They might still get slapped around.
01:13:45
Speaker
But at least the abuser knows you're going to see it, you're going to know something, and most of them are so narcissistic anyway.
01:13:56
Speaker
They know they can't pull the wool over everyone's eyes except this moron. They're just setting ground. Not even just that, but when somebody is consistent in your life, you know you can depend on them. That's it. And so in a victim state of mind, you can sit there and you can take the abuse, but you know that mom's going to be there or aunt's going to be there or my brother's going to be there.
01:14:18
Speaker
Every single day, relentlessly asking if there's anything that I need, whatever. Yeah. Then one day you could say enough is enough. I'm done. And ask your person that's showing up for you. What can I do? How do I get out of here? Yeah, like because the deal is is we don't I don't know this for a fact. This is just pure speculation and assumption on my part.
01:14:42
Speaker
But at least for a week she was tortured. I don't know how long she lived with him before her before her murder. But she had a few phone calls with her parents at the beginning. And then they received letters. They didn't call. They didn't show up. They didn't push. And so you know he's saying they're not calling you because they don't really love you. They're glad you're gone.
01:15:05
Speaker
Yeah, they hate you. It's a whole part of the abuse
Support and Encouragement for Abuse Victims
01:15:08
Speaker
cycle. But you take that club out of the abuser's hands when you show up and it might rip your heart out. You might sit in your car and sob or go buy a gun and contemplate murder every single time, but at least that person knows. Someone still loves them. Someone's still there for them. Now, I don't know how I...
01:15:30
Speaker
If I had someone in an abusive relationship and I knew just showing up and not stirring the pot or, you know, taking a knife and sticking it right in his kidneys, I don't know if I could be able to stop myself.
01:15:40
Speaker
It would be hard. It would suck. It is emotionally damaging to the person trying to stay in the abuse victims life. But at the end of the day, if you're consistently there and taking that everyone hates you club out of the abusers hand and they finally get to a point where they can run gives up on you. Yeah, that's that's it right there. You do it because it's what's best for them. It gives them an out. It lets them know someone cares if they live or die and they deserve to live. You do deserve to live.
01:16:08
Speaker
It's like I've said 100 million times. Faith, I could look at you every single day and say, you're beautiful, you're wonderful, you're incredible, and then get mad one day, one day, and say, you look like shit. That's what I'm gonna remember.
01:16:26
Speaker
Exactly you always remember the negative always so that's what I'm saying like I'm not I don't know the best way I'm in my mind The best way is not to antagonize the abuser by talking what a horrible person they are cause and strife my mind the best thing the only thing you can do in that situation for your loved one is show up and Prove someone heat someone in this world besides that piece of crap Loves you
01:16:52
Speaker
Cares about you and thinks you're worthy Yeah Yeah, and if you are listening to the podcast and you're in that situation and you don't have someone showing up That does not mean that they hate you and that you deserve what's happening to you It means they don't know what to do and maybe they showed up for a while and they couldn't take it because it takes a strong and
01:17:20
Speaker
a mentally iron will to show up in that situation with your loved one and walk out leaving that person there. Like, I don't know if I could do it. I would hope that I would. Is being able to walk out of the house knowing what's going on and leave. I would saw. I don't know how I would do it. I don't think I could drive home. I'd have to. I'd have to pull over and just saw.
01:17:46
Speaker
Wouldn't be enough and you question everything like how can I do more? How can I do better? You can't like I left tonight. I was there for her tonight. We talked us we had this conversation We did ABC indeed and I leave and that was the last conversation we ever had Yeah, and you know darn well That's what the human mind will go to. Oh, yeah is worst case scenario. It is I
01:18:11
Speaker
But I don't like I said, I'm not I'm not a trained psychologist. I'm not a trained domestic abuse advocate. I'm just going off what I see. And the only thing I feel like is the most important thing is showing up being there and not antagonizing because until they're ready to leave, you don't want to make their life more hell because they live it day in and day out. And I know that
01:18:33
Speaker
Some of us, when you're that person and it's your loved one, you think what an idiot they can run. You don't know the mental abuse and how long it's gone on to brainwash them into where they're at. Or even just a simple thing that you may have done that made them feel inadequate, insufficient or whatever.
01:18:51
Speaker
that they're holding on to because guys people put on a happy face and you don't know what they will go on to the compliments that we receive we all hang on to the negative crap not only that someone gives me a compliment in my head i'm not saying oh thank you i'm saying you freaking liar that ain't true i don't look good today look at my hair look at this look at that yeah
01:19:12
Speaker
So, um, I'm going to post a few things, but I do want to say, and I, um, in the new Mexico episode of our summer year long road trip, um, the new Mexico episode at the end of that, there's a lot of good resources of domestic violence. But the domestic violence hotline in the United States, which I do have a national number and I'll post is 1-800-799-7233.
01:19:42
Speaker
You can go to their website at www.vthehotline.org backslash get dash help. The website does say that if you're worried that your abuser is going to check your browsing history or cookies, call them. They will tell you how to hide it to where it can't be seen. And you can also text the word START to the number 88788.
01:20:11
Speaker
And you will get a domestic abuse advocate to text you and help you and get you resources. Because even if you don't have anyone, there are places where you can get help. Yeah, there are people out there willing to do whatever it takes. And if I had the time, I would research every single hotline for every single country and every single little place, but it would be a week long of me giving you numbers and websites.
01:20:37
Speaker
I'll try to post some especially for England and for America because England is where the story happened in America I do think it's really cool because I'll tell you when Covid happened and the lockdown happened My biggest concerns were domestic abuse and abused children because they no longer had They no longer had that that freedom of at least going to school and
01:21:02
Speaker
Or mandatory reporters and they are elderly people who couldn't get out and get groceries but that was my biggest thing and i did think it was cool there was one country i don't remember i should have written it down i apologize. There is one country that went global with if you're stuck at home.
01:21:19
Speaker
in this pandemic with your abuser, go to any pharmacy in our jurisdiction, tell the pharmacist you need a, I think they called it a mask 19. And that was the code word that every pharmacy had been taught to say, I need help, I'm being abused. And they will give you help right then and there. Kudos to whatever country did that. I don't remember which one it was, but that was amazing.
01:21:40
Speaker
because it was a it was a code word that they could go when they pick up aspirin or whatever prescriptions to sending mask 19. You think they're just ordering a covid mask? Yeah. No, they're getting help to get the heck out of dodge. Yeah. So kudos to that. I wish every country had done that. I'm sorry, but they had to put it all on the news and then everybody would know what it meant. But it's not that much help. Is it really going to be once it's out? It's like there's there is a hand gesture.
01:22:08
Speaker
that you can teach your children that you're being abused or like you're in trouble, you need help, a hand gesture that you make, just a slight hand gesture that people recognize that.
01:22:20
Speaker
Get this kid. Yeah, this is not kosher. And you know what? It might be highly publicized, but if you teach your kid that hand signal, and they're being drugged through, and they're told, don't say a word, kid, or I'm gonna kill your whole family, and they're scared, and they see someone walking towards them, they make the hand gesture, even if the person that's kidnapping them sees that hand gesture, too late because someone else already did. And they're there, and they're gonna help. For the love of God, help.
01:22:49
Speaker
So even if even if you go and you say I need a mask 19 and whatever country it was at that time and the abuser heard it on the radio too late What's he gonna do start welling on earth at the Walgreens, right? You're public. You got people there at least it's a plan like any plan you have it's publicized the abusers gonna know but if someone else sees the signal or the or the catchphrase or whatever and
01:23:15
Speaker
The abuser has no recourse because you're in a public setting with other people who, for the love of God, if he strikes, you are going to take him down and hold him there till the police get there. Right. Because I'm telling you, I would go buck wild. Yeah. Buck wild. Yeah. Like there is nothing. There is nothing. And my kid would probably be down there biting their ankles. She's she's a little she's a little wild.
01:23:41
Speaker
So this episode was hard. I'm sorry. The past two episodes really sucked. I'm going to be honest with you. They suck the research mind. I'm sure Lisa sucked the researchers. Well, but you know what, though? Like it's it's super weird because with every story we tell, there's always like you always sitting there and we're listening to like storybooks as we were kids. There's a moral to the story, right? Yeah.
01:24:04
Speaker
And so for the stories that we tell, there's always kind of a moral to the story that we end with. And it's, you know, whether it's pay attention or something. Yeah, something.
01:24:16
Speaker
I mean, that's the whole reason I want to do the podcast. Hey, I wanted to. I love to crime. We talk about it anyway. If I'm going to spend time with you, let's at least do it. Oh, whatever. But the other point is, is I want to be able to help people. Yeah. And you know what? You might get this information off Google. You might get it off another true crime podcast. You might not. I don't care. I'm going to put it out there. If you need help, I'm going to do what we got to do. Yeah. I'm like, you need me to research for you.
01:24:45
Speaker
In your area, send me an email to TwistedTalesTrueCrime at gmail.com. Just say, this is where I'm at. I need resources. I'll Google. I'll do the search and send you stuff to where it's not on your search browser. I don't care.
01:25:00
Speaker
Like, I'm being serious. Send me a Facebook message. Send me an Instagram. I live in this town, in this country, and I need to get away from my abuser. I don't have anybody. Can you get me resources? I will Google, I will call. We're broke, so there's no money here, but I will put the man hours in to get you something to get you out, and I will pray for you every day. I will metaphorically hold your hand.
01:25:29
Speaker
I'll do anything I can do. Like, that's my point. Anything I can do. You just need someone to listen to you while you scream and vent until you get the gumption to leave. I'm your person. Yeah. I'll do it. Yeah. Like, that's the point of the podcast. And then you can come and yell to me. Oh, yeah. There'd be a lot of yelling. Yeah.
01:25:51
Speaker
So anyways, I just want to end with one more time. If you're in a domestic abuse, mental abuse, you are, you do not deserve it. It is not, not, not your fault. You are worthy. You are loved. Your life matters. And if you were to end it or your abuser were to end it tonight, you would be missed tomorrow. Even if you don't think, if you think I'm the one that wouldn't, you would be. Those are just lies.
01:26:20
Speaker
Lives that you've been told over and over and you know, my dad always says my dad's a pastor But my dad always says and it doesn't even if you don't believe in God or the Bible or anything like that It's applicable what you keep in the dark Satan can use against you. Yes so When you're in this dark place dark is what your captor is going to use against. Yeah, but it's
01:26:44
Speaker
You gotta bring it to light. I know you can't shout it from the rooftops. I know that when you leave your abusers, the time you're at most risk for being murdered. Understand all that. But if you just keep it to yourself, eventually you're gonna believe you deserve it. You asked for it. It's the best life you've got. And it's just not true. So find a resource. Find friends. Go to the park. Meet people.
01:27:12
Speaker
Do whatever you've got to do to make yourself, start by taking a shower and blow dry on your hair. Back like you did before you were with the scumbag. Feel good about yourself. Even if he tells you you're ugly, you feel good about yourself. Don't listen to him. And do things to make yourself confident to where you can get to a point where you feel like you can leave. Because I understand it's hard and scary. I'm sorry. I wish I was a millionaire so I could just buy you a house and get you out. But I'm not and I can't.
01:27:43
Speaker
But I can be there for you and give you resources.
Expressing Anger and Moving Forward
01:27:45
Speaker
That's all I can do. Well, I'm going to research the rest of the week until my podcast. And I will start my next podcast by the best torture that I found for this guy. Because he's still alive. If you can listen to podcasts in prison in England,
01:28:05
Speaker
Let him listen to this and I want you to smack him as hard as you throat punch him for me. Shank him. We're not advocating murder. Lisa is the one that advocates murder in case charges are brought up. You don't die from a shank. I said shank him. You could, you could, you could die. If they do it in like
01:28:23
Speaker
a very robust area like the throat or your, you know, I sliced off as Achilles tendon or some crap like that. No, no. Anyways. Sorry for that case. I'll find a good torture. I promise when I come back in two weeks for my episode, Lisa's next week, I will have a case that number one does not involve children because we've been on a long stream here. Yeah. And number two.
01:28:51
Speaker
I mean, it'll be a murder case, so it's not going to be sunshine and roses and, you know, poppy and branch from trolls. But.
01:28:58
Speaker
It will be not this bad because I need a break from this. And you know, another case out there that's not that bad because even when we think it's not that bad, just because you just haven't heard of it that bad. Yeah, it's always that bad. Just the fact that involving murder or he gouged her eyeballs out. I know. Alive and she had to live like that for five days to three weeks. Yeah. Couldn't even see him coming.
Closing Remarks and Light-hearted Ending
01:29:28
Speaker
You couldn't move your knees. Anyway, I'm not going to get back into it. Yeah, we're getting right back in. So there's no amount of talking that I can do at the end of this episode to make sure you guys are OK. Here you go. Lisa, knock knock. Who's there? Door. Oh, door who? I adore you. That's my first graders favorite knock knock joke. Like I adore you. I love you. Get it? I get it.
01:29:58
Speaker
We're trying to lighten the mood here. Don't be a wet blanket. Fake laugh or something at this point. Look, I have a laughing thing on my here. Laughter. Hope you guys heard that. I don't know if that button works because we've never done it before, but now it's flashing. So if they're still laughing, sorry. Should probably turn it off now. They quit flashing. I don't want to do it again. OK.
01:30:21
Speaker
So I'm going to post pictures of this sweet, sweet little girl, Kelly, on Facebook. I will post pictures of the degenerate. Call him whatever you want. Name wise, he's had a couple in different ages. Liar, liar, pants on fire. There you go. Light him on fire.
01:30:43
Speaker
Too quick it is too quick. Yeah, the flames get too hot No, don't don't have a hose so you can hose them off after third-degree burns. That hurts. Yeah, it's Torturous, right and then like having to like remove the flesh. Yeah Yes, I feel I'm sorry. It's getting worse. All right. Okay night. I hope you guys had a really a
01:31:07
Speaker
Wonderful time listening to this crap and we will definitely be back with you next week. I will find another story. I well, I got nothing. I got nothing. I got nothing. Let's go back to www.hirehitman.com stories. That was funny. Let's go back to something like that. Nice, safe, comical, dumb, criminal.
01:31:34
Speaker
Florida man stories. Yeah, let's do something. You know, you're in charge. So all right, guys. Have a good night. Love you. Love you. Bye.