Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Joker: Folie à Deux with Christopher Klein
33 Plays2 months ago
Today on These Guys Got Juice, the guys are joined by Christopher Klein to talk about Todd Phillip's latest film, Joker: Folie à Deux.
Will audiences think this movie has the juice that Joker (2019) had? Do the guys and their guest think this has any juice? Is this what the fans were hoping for? Listen and find out!
Email us here:
[email protected]
Follow us on Letterboxd
Doug:
https://letterboxd.com/thedouggernaut/
Nick:
https://letterboxd.com/newers93/
And on twitter (never calling it X):
https://x.com/Douggernaut_2
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Humor
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm Doug Hanport. I'm Nick Evers. And we're These Guys Got Juice. And we saw Joker follow you, too. Guess who's back. Back again. Joker's back. Tell a friend. Guess who's back. Guess who's back. Guess who's back. Guess who's back. Guess who's back. Guess who's back. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. I mean, someone, that's what they should,
00:00:47
Speaker
They should have had that. So why was it? Oh, Eminem should have played Joker. I was going to say more contemporary music, but that's that's not really contemporary song.
00:00:58
Speaker
I mean, no, but I'm not opposed to that.
Gotham City vs. New York
00:01:03
Speaker
They used like older music because this is they never specifically say a year, right? Like it's just the 70s because that's the the movies they're ripping off are New York set 70s movies, right? So it's just it's Gotham City. So it's just it's whatever they want whenever they want it to be, whatever they want, it seems.
00:01:23
Speaker
And a Gotham that's in, it's funny that this is coming out parallel to the Penguin because Penguin doubles down on, I mean, everything's been canon at some point now. These things have been around so long, but like there's like a map of like the D.C., like of where these cities are. And like at least initially Gotham was like in Jersey and Metropolis is like across the bay in fucking Delaware. Like there's a
00:01:49
Speaker
The two biggest cities in the country in DC are like in Delaware, New Jersey. But yeah, now it's in New York, apparently. Damn. What a shame. Strike one, Todd Phillips, disrespecting the location of bathroom.
00:02:09
Speaker
Oh,
Anticipation for Joker Discussion
00:02:10
Speaker
okay. No, I sorry, I got so swept up with the mania of Joker. I didn't even introduce our Gotham crime reporter here, Chris Klein. Thanks for coming on, Chris. Gotham crime news here. Here to report some things about a Joker and a thief. Oh, yeah. How's it going? Thanks. Thanks for coming on, Chris. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah, we've been wanting to... I've been wanting to get all of us together on something and this felt like a... I was like, yeah, this is kind of relevant to all our interests. I mean, I wasn't...
00:02:49
Speaker
looking forward to this movie.
Mixed Feelings on Joker
00:02:52
Speaker
I was just like, I was just, I was like, I want to know what the fuck it even is. Like, cause I, I, so first Joker, I saw it and the last 20 or so minutes I'm like into that part. So I leave the theater positively kind of, but then when I started thinking about everything before the stuff at the end, I'm like,
00:03:15
Speaker
movies kind of dumb. I don't know if I like that. I had like no expectations going into this film. And to be honest, like before you were like, Hey, do you want to talk about this? I I had no interest. I was not planning on seeing this movie at all. I'm a little jaded of
00:03:34
Speaker
the superhero genre. And I don't even know if I want to consider this movie in particular, along with Joker one as a superhero film, obviously, it has the theme, the thematic rapper of Batman, DC, their universe, Elseworld, whatever
Superhero Film Expectations
00:03:52
Speaker
you want to consider it. But like, I think
00:03:56
Speaker
I am just remiss to think that anything, whether it's DC or Marvel or any other comic book adaptation nowadays, is going to be
00:04:08
Speaker
at all nuanced and I was pretty surprised by how I felt this morning and like later today how I felt about it talking about the movie with my wife who has never seen the first one who has only talked about the second one with me and then seen people talk about it online. She is much more the researcher going deep kind of like let's talk about society. Let's talk about
00:04:38
Speaker
a city. Let's talk. And I for the first Joker movie, I didn't care that it was like a Joker film because that wasn't it for me when I came out of it. It was more an exploration of a character in Gotham. Gotham is notoriously full of shit. It is corrupt to the core. That's what Batman says he's fighting for, you know, at any given point whenever he's
00:05:05
Speaker
interrogated by anybody who's doing other shit than dressing in a bat suit and beating people up and saying, I don't kill people, whatever justice. And he's he's going on about that. But I thought that was that was a built out world where like other superhero films do give no shit about the world they create.
Public Opinion and Joker
00:05:27
Speaker
And they care more about the hero's journey in the traditional sense. I don't think
00:05:36
Speaker
And again, no expectations going to this movie. And I think discussing all the themes in this, I was pretty impressed. And I think
00:05:47
Speaker
I don't know. To me, I've seen other people shit on it, but I think this might be one of my favorites in terms of comic book related content. Wow. Okay. Yeah. A lot of people are super negative. I didn't expect. Yeah, I didn't expect you to kind of, I was expecting you to just dive into criticism kind of with all that buildup, but damn. I'm lying. I'm a joker.
00:06:11
Speaker
I hated this movie. I'm a curmudgeon comic book nerd. You've been fooled. You've been had. You got me.
Oscar Win Surprise
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah, I did. I really enjoyed it and I enjoy thinking about it and have. Yeah, it's it's it's sitting with me. Well, like if I had rated it in my letterbox yesterday, it would have been a lower score than today. And then maybe rethinking about it.
00:06:39
Speaker
later today like this is something i could conceivably like i might want to recent watch it again like because i there's there's a lot that i'm kind of still piecing through especially on the end but anyway nick uh what was your did you like joker one
00:06:54
Speaker
No, I wasn't too crazy about the first Joker. I want to say like when I saw it, I gave it like a three star rating. I didn't love it. I didn't hate it. But then the hype like that followed after all the love that came out from like everybody in my life kind of made me just get a bit more sour on the movie. I don't know. I became a bit more of like a curmudgeon. It's crazy that it won an Oscar.
00:07:23
Speaker
It is. I was thinking about that. I was thinking about that while watching Folly Adair. I was like, Joaquin Phoenix got an Oscar for playing this character not too long ago.
Joker's Character Interpretation
00:07:35
Speaker
But yeah, I wasn't too crazy about the first Joker, and the love for it made me get a bit bitter towards it.
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's something I've come around to a bit more. I've been wanting to check out, reevaluate, see how I feel about it with being like so removed from it now that like people aren't talking about it. And especially since this movie is about to get like an onslaught of negative reviews and hate. I assume I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that's where it's going to go. It seems like what's happening so far. It makes me want an audience. Yeah.
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah, it makes me want to do a full reevaluation of these movies, but I just kind of think for me, the Joker movies just don't really work for me. They're not my thing. I'm still thinking about this one a lot. I came out feeling pretty negative and I'm, and not even like negative, like I hate this movie, but like a very like just indifference towards this movie, but
00:08:39
Speaker
I think as I hear you guys talk about more of what you think was going on with Todd Phillips, the Todd Phillips of it all is what I'm really excited to discuss with this movie. But I think I'm really going to figure out my thoughts on this movie as we discuss Todd Phillips' intention and what is actually happening here.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yeah, what is happening here? That's what we're getting to
Musical Elements in Joker
00:09:06
Speaker
the bottom. Man, another song they should have done. They should have done What's Up by Four Non-Bonds. It's like the one that's like, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, hey, what's going on? Oh, OK. The one associated with He-Man. Yeah, the He-Man meme one. Whenever Joker laughs and he does his big long cigarette smoke, he just puts his hair back.
00:09:31
Speaker
I'm OK. I'm I there's multiple things I do like about this one. But specifically, both movies, I kind of want to applaud on just on the basis of like, hey, mainstream movie main character smoking a cigarette. Like they couldn't even get Colin Farrell had the fucking campaign to have
00:09:52
Speaker
penguin a bad guy have a cigar in the Batman and they still said no they finally let him have one in the penguin show but it's like come on guys they said no that's so weird cuz kids are going to see the Batman smoking I'm pretty sure it was
00:10:13
Speaker
Is it PG-13?
Penguin and Performance Comparisons
00:10:15
Speaker
Yeah. And so many kids idolize the penguin. They're like, oh, I just have to, you know, a lot of people. I had a poster on my wall. It was the iceberg lounge. It's penguin. And he's just smoking a cigar and he's like, get more out of life, kid. Yeah. Then also mix the flavors. They're like, we can't follow up Danny DeVito's sensitive portrayal of the penguin with someone who smokes a cigar. We just can't.
00:10:42
Speaker
I've been walking around the house after we watched The Penguin. My wife and I, Mia, her and I have been watching The Penguin. She likes Colin Farrell. And I was like, oh, this is a DC adaptation you actually might watch. And she goes, yeah, because Colin Farrell is a great fucking actor. And I was like, you're not wrong. And so I've been walking around the house just going, first of all, Vic.
00:11:02
Speaker
You gotta mix the fucking colors. You never mixed the fucking colors. And I just walk around with his limp and his poor little feet. I mean, yeah, shout out fucked up feet representation. I also that's what I've. Yeah, man. Like I was like, I've hammered toe not to the degree because like the first episode you do see him take off his shoe and it's like, damn, that you see a doctor. Yeah. But at the same time, you're like, that's relatable.
00:11:30
Speaker
Dude, I gotta watch this shit now. I keep forgetting to put it on. I think it's good. I think it's good thus far. I mean, I hope we talk about all things DC related content because, like, I think that Penguin is, like, one of those things that you're like, I'm not expecting this to maybe be good, but it kind of is good and it's got its own personality thus far. I don't know if it's, like, Sopranos as much as, like, people are saying, like, oh, it's not Sopranos. It's like you saw one crime TV show and you thought,
00:12:01
Speaker
This is the only crime thing that I can relate this to. I think the comparison for me comes from like, I think Farrell's performance is specifically in the show, because even though it's not drastically different in the Batman, he's playing, I would say the performance in the Batman's like more towards camp. Like all the villain performances in that are like at a higher
00:12:24
Speaker
heightened pitch, which makes sense in context because they are performing, you know, like one Riddler is like a streamer in the Batman and then Penguin also is very performative because he's in front of these mobsters and then Batman who he wants to be self-important in front of. So like it is performative, but now we get to follow him, you know, in his more private times where he's not like boasting and trying to be a big guy. And it's like,
00:12:48
Speaker
I think that side of that performance definitely feels pretty Gandolfini-esque.
Realism in Film
00:12:53
Speaker
Like, even the way he, like, sits in chairs is pretty similar to Tony. But he's so different because he's actually nice to his hookers. Do we seem to take a shit at any point in the show, or do you think we will see that happen? I think we're gonna see it. It hasn't happened yet.
00:13:12
Speaker
That's been a thing that we've been seeing more in movies lately. People on toilets. And I'm all for it. Let's have more of it. Let's have Captain America take a shit in a movie. No, honestly, they need to humor. I mean, I don't want to start a full Marvel rant. Yeah, we got to get closer to DC. But I just want to say those movies could do more to humanize their heroes. You know, maybe then maybe that means just taking a shit just so we know them had fucked up feet. Then it would be right.
00:13:42
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Like, just tell me that one of them had really bad SAT scores or something, you know? Like, just give them, like, a little detail that makes me, like, sympathize with them.
00:13:54
Speaker
So Joker, Folly Ado. One thought that I had in comparing the first movie to this one, one thing I didn't like about the first movie is it felt very like mean-spirited to
Joker's Consistent Tone
00:14:08
Speaker
me. I don't know if you guys felt the same way walking out of the first Joker movie. I would say both of these movies are pretty, like that's a consistent vibe and tone that they've, yeah, I think they're pretty mean-spirited movies.
00:14:20
Speaker
This one, I didn't walk away feeling as bad afterwards, though, compared to the first one. I mean, what are your guys' thoughts on that, these movies? I have mean-spirited in the way that they fucking deserve. Like, any nerd watching Joker and the same kind of fucks that were like, I love Joker and I love how he riots. Like, all those fucks that are the same kind of fucks
00:14:49
Speaker
that bitch and complain about the dumbest shit and they're also like appropriating the Punisher and
00:15:01
Speaker
Like, God forbid something be nuanced at all in superhero films, like, or, you know, related comic book content, especially from the Joker. Like, I don't think the, like, I remember going to the theater and to see Joker with a bunch of friends. We talk about comic books often. One of my friends, her and I always go
Gotham's Societal Impact
00:15:22
Speaker
back and forth on DC related stuff. And she had such a grimace on her face, not because she thought it was like,
00:15:32
Speaker
It was like a disappointing film about this character that she reads about. But it was more depressed because she watched it and it was like, this is just a bunch of fucking weirdos who love picking on and then appropriating people with
00:16:00
Speaker
uh like mental health issues uh and
00:16:05
Speaker
Like a lot of incel culture was from this. I did not come out of that film thinking that's totally, but I could see the through lines of like what the first one was. And I thought it was just, again, like I said before, like this portrayal of Gotham where so much of what propels this character into whittling and becoming this Joker character is
00:16:34
Speaker
the failure of everyone in this man's life.
Joaquin Phoenix's Influence
00:16:39
Speaker
And of everyone in society, of everyone in society, right? And he that way, right? And he lashes out. And that's pretty wild as like, again, we like we talked about it like the I didn't even remember that this won an award for
00:16:58
Speaker
Yeah, and I but I agree that he brings such a great performance like I I've watched a couple of Joaquin Phoenix movies lately and whether it was gladiator or Inherent vice. Oh, that's one of my favorites. I think so. I think he is a spectacular actor and everything the master is
00:17:21
Speaker
No. That's the other PTA he did before inherent vice. It's really good. Doug, have you seen that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love the master.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah, I always felt like, man, Joker feels like them making up for not giving him anything for the master. I don't know, because the master is just right. I mean, they do that all the time, you know, like the awards of like, well, fuck, we should have given you this for blah, blah, blah, however many years ago. So we'll just give this to you now. What is the master about?
Paul Thomas Anderson and Film Influences
00:17:52
Speaker
It's Scientology, basically.
00:17:54
Speaker
Philip Seymour Hoffman's playing. They don't call him L. Ron Hubbard and they don't call it Scientology, which is good for, you know, them legal legal purposes wise. But PTA in his movies, if he's adapting vaguely, historical things usually just changes the names anyway, because like Marky Mark in Boogie Nights is vaguely based off of like, who's the guy who had like the biggest dick in porn? Was it like H.H. Holmes or something? Or no, that's a serial killer, right?
00:18:23
Speaker
There's some someone someone. Yeah, I want homes on the white city guy. Yeah. Okay. Maybe it's John Holmes or something. It's a long city is what that would get. That's the Dirk Digler version. No, but he was vaguely inspired by this the 70s porn star. And and I, you know, he's taken from
00:18:46
Speaker
either his life or historical things for multiple of his movies, but he always changes it just enough. So yeah, they just call it the movement, I think. They don't ever say Scientology or anything, but Walking Phoenix is this aimless,
00:19:02
Speaker
vet post-World War II who's clearly not doing well. He's not just a hard drinker. He's combining shit in utility closets that seem like are pretty toxic and poison, and drinking that to get fucked up. Does he drink bleach, Nick? He's putting some heavy duty stuff in his cocktails.
00:19:27
Speaker
Yeah, I don't remember the concoction. It's been almost like 10 years or so. I don't remember, like, when I saw this, but I saw it around the time Phantom Thread came out. So whenever that was. But yeah, it's just I don't know. Go on, Doug. Sorry. I know we were. I interrupted a little bit before, like you were talking about like how you felt when you first came out of the film and like how it's what
70s Film Influence on Joker
00:19:54
Speaker
did you say? It was like.
00:19:56
Speaker
it was mean spirited. Yeah, and I wouldn't even refute that. I think both films
00:20:07
Speaker
Since they're trying to so heavily evoke these set grimy, gritty 70s, New York set films, it's like they're doubling down on how bleak those movies can be. They're pretty nihilistic movies, I think. Spoilers for Taxi Driver, which The First Joker takes a lot from, that movie's pretty bleak and nihilistic in terms of at the end. It's up to interpretation.
00:20:36
Speaker
You know, they never did a taxi driver to where he was on trial or anything, where they clarify what exactly happened. Taxi driver to the musical. Yeah. Well, they should have. Scorsese, you know, you should have done that. He could still do it. He could still do it. De Niro is still here. We have the technology. We've seen it happen. And it was flawless, too. I think everybody agreed that the aging was perfect.
00:21:04
Speaker
It's the best part of them. The wrinkles immersed me. The digital ones that I was like, oh, those are good wrinkles. I've seen those wrinkles before. But but the thing is, at the end of Taxi Driver, Travis, you know, he's been doing this whole movie and you're like, OK, this guy's unraveling. He's going to explode. Like something's going to happen.
00:21:28
Speaker
And you're not sure, is he going to kill this politician? Is he going to kill this woman who rejected him? And then he ends up having a shooting spree and he kills these pimp and drug dealers. And then it flashes forward because he's wounded and seeming like, oh, is he going to die? But then we cut forward. He's back to driving his cab. And publicly, he's a hero for doing this.
00:21:51
Speaker
I always went with the interpretation. Usually it was something gives me the option of like, was X real or not? I'm usually going to tend towards like, yeah, it was. Well, I go towards whichever one is more interesting to me. And usually the more interesting option is, yeah, that did happen.
00:22:10
Speaker
So I think it says it's an interesting idea and message if, because it doesn't just make this movie then Travis's problem. It makes it a society thing of like, oh, what kind of culture in society would this guy's a psycho? I mean, yeah, sure. A teenage girl got to be free of a pimp before, but she's going to be traumatized for life. And now this he's like a local hero now because of for violence, you know, like he's so good at violence that he's a hero.
00:22:38
Speaker
And it just is like it kind of turns the lens back on on us the viewer a little bit because it is exciting to watch him kill those people. He's got the fucking gun track arm thing and I was like, oh, it's fucking cool. But then it's kind of like, yeah, you did you like that? Why did you like that? I think that's like probably the message behind.
Todd Phillips' Intentions
00:23:02
Speaker
one and two for Todd Phillips, at least, you know, I was reading a few articles today about it, and his interviews recently. And I think that's like, probably the message that I could pull away with, like outside of, you know, having a conversation about, right, in general about movies and film, but
00:23:22
Speaker
So when Todd Phillips was doing Joker, do you think he intended all of it to turn out this way by the time Folly Ado is like done, he's got the story completed and he's gonna- Oh, I don't think he had any plans to do a sequel when he did one. I don't, yeah, I think he just wanted to do
00:23:43
Speaker
The way he described it, or maybe Joaquin described it this way, is that they pulled off the most expensive heist ever. They tricked Warner Brothers into giving them this budget to make a character study movie when it was like, oh, it's a superhero IP thing. We're just using that to get our foot in the door. And that was just so we could
00:24:06
Speaker
you know, do this, it's clear that he likes Scorsese, specifically Taxi Driver and King of Comedy.
Joker Sequel Predictions
00:24:14
Speaker
And so I think that's just what he wanted to do. He was like, hey, what if I did that, but with these Batman characters? And then because it was so successful, you know, and no movie that makes that much money can't, it has to continue. That's just like the law now. That's the killing joke.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, that is the killing joke. They killed it at the box office for the first one, and then they killed it at this one, too. So what do you think? What were you saying, Doug?
00:24:45
Speaker
No, I was just thinking of the box because I think you said this after we saw it, Nick, of like I think strong opening because like sequels to popular movies, you know, do open big just from that. You know, people like the first one. I think this is going to have a massive drop off and maybe be a flop in terms of like it might lose money. Yeah, I don't know the actual but it was like 100 million or something or the negative word of mouth is I think can be really strong for this one.
00:25:15
Speaker
unless we fight back. Unless we take back Gotham. I'll defend this movie. I'm going to hard defend this movie. Do you guys want to make your case and then we can get into spoilers for why people should see this? Because I'm not as strong about it as you guys and I'm not really going to tell people not to see it.
00:25:38
Speaker
I have more of an indifference towards this movies. People can take that for what it is, but do you guys want to make your spoiler free case before we happen to spoilers? Yeah, I'll make a case for it. Go for it.
00:25:52
Speaker
I would say just do your own research. Everyone should see it for themselves. It's hard to predict how any one person will react to this because I've seen people who didn't like the first one really like this one more or
00:26:13
Speaker
vice for, you know, sometimes they did like the first one, but they also do like this one for different reasons, or they didn't like both, or they liked the first one, not like this one. So it can really go either way. And the only way you're going to know is, is to check out what it's doing.
Character Arc Analysis
00:26:29
Speaker
Uh, cause I, I would say I'm pretty ambivalent about the first one. Uh, even though there are things I like about it, specifically like the, like the last chunk of, of it is the most compelling to me.
00:26:40
Speaker
for the first one. So this one, I kind of vastly prefer this to the first one. I'm a person who's like, yeah, first one was whatever. There's a good performance or it becomes good. I don't know. It's not Joaquin's fault. It's more of the script in terms of like, it's really just throwing in terms of Arthur's origin. It's like a hat on a hat on a hat in terms of like, okay, we're doing like
00:27:04
Speaker
all these cliches of mental illness, but then he also has this laughing tick, and then he also has the sexual abuse in his past, and then he also works as a clown, and then also is a failed stand-up comedian who's ridiculed lies. It was like, okay, let's just pick a couple of these. We don't need every one of these to justify him becoming the Joker.
00:27:29
Speaker
Uh, uh, but I feel like that's almost made a feature, not a, by this, the way this one's in conversation with that one is kind of like, there's definitely a self-awareness to me at least of like, like, yeah, there's like,
00:27:43
Speaker
some pretty absurd and dumb stuff in the last minute. That's what Todd Phillips seemed to be like. Why did you like that? Okay, it cut out during the point I was making, because I think the Riddler hacked me or something. Paul Dano, he's always hacking me. But I was saying that I think this one and Todd Phillips are self-aware of
00:28:11
Speaker
lot of the issues and things levied against the first one and probably pretty aware of, well, to a degree, I think, of what people would probably say about this one.
Narrative Approach Comparisons
00:28:26
Speaker
And yeah, it feels very self-aware and I kind of too like the just kind of
00:28:33
Speaker
I mean, there's a little bit of a trolling nature to it, but then also it's self-examining the previous movie and your relationship to it. I have a buddy online, Jared, who was like, this is like the glass of the DC universe. And I wasn't sure what he meant at first. I was like, oh, is it because glass
00:28:54
Speaker
kind of refuses to be the unbreakable split sequel that like people would want or it's like, you know, consciously defying those expectations. But I think also what he was getting at is that how in a good chunk of that movie when they're institutionalized, it's like going back through the events of the previous movie and be like, no, those weren't superpowers. There's like a rational explanation for
00:29:19
Speaker
for all the things you saw the bars that he bent were like kind of rusted and oh he climbed on that wall well you know some people can like rock climb and train there's like they're like truck and it's so bold and glass because it's like i saw the last two movies those dudes had power you trying to tell me that they don't um
00:29:41
Speaker
And this movie is kind of doing that, but through the lens of character with Arthur. I guess I'll save that specific stuff for spoilers, because I don't think any of that was in the trailer about
00:29:57
Speaker
the basically the angle that this movie is taking with regards to Arthur and the Joker as like a person. So I think I really like that that's like our through line through these movies.
Genre Expectations in Joker
00:30:10
Speaker
And I'm excited to like kind of delve into what the movie is saying about that. I would agree with that.
00:30:22
Speaker
Sorry, since we had the technical difficulties, I forgot. Chris, did you already go with your persuasion? I said some of my initial thoughts. I think if I talk any further, it's going to get into spoilery territory just because I will want to cite specific instances.
00:30:40
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like the trailers only show you like they're like, OK, he's in prison after the first one and they they show a trial happening. And do you do you see the Lady Gaga's there? But otherwise, I don't think the the the actual like meat of the story or thematically, none of that's like like, yeah, to me, that's all spoilers because the trailer. No, I think that I think the trailers for it are like just like bombastic and like, oh, it's a musical kind of.
00:31:07
Speaker
I was about to say, I don't know if we've mentioned it's a musical up until this point now that I think about it, have we? Is there original songs in it? Because I'll get technical on this. No, yeah, it's a jukebox musical. It's jukebox, okay. Yeah, yeah, it's not, which I was initially a little disappointed when I, because I just, the idea of this as a sequel to this wildly successful movie, I was like, wow, that's so fucking ballsy that you're going to do a musical. Yeah.
00:31:33
Speaker
version of this, but then when I heard they weren't original songs, I was like, eh, are you playing it safe? And then it just was, I don't know, every musical sequence in this movie I found to be pretty disappointing and underwhelming. I found a couple of them to be underwhelming. I did like whenever, yeah, I guess it's a little spoiler. Do we want to get into the spoiler? Let's just go there.
00:32:19
Speaker
Okay. Wow. That was, it was like an intense like building of score that was, it was like, it was like, Oh wow, this, this guy's unraveling. What's going to happen? Is he going to blow? And then, and then it was crazy that like an explosion went off and someone like blew up the courtroom. That was crazy.
00:32:37
Speaker
are you talking about the spoiler bumper still yeah yeah that all happened in the spoiler bumper that's why it was weird i feel i can never it's like reality in the spoiler bumper in the movies they're all like collapsing in on Doug's in his fantasy and yeah he's listening to his echo
00:32:57
Speaker
Okay, fantasy. That's a good jumping off point here because the title, Falia do the movie to because a lot of people and I would also probably say about Todd Phillips, he's not like a subtle storyteller or filmmaker. So I was actually, I thought I assumed the movie was going to start with like a dictionary definition of Falia do and like,
00:33:20
Speaker
Like, just like tell you, but no, to its credit, it's not gonna, it's like, no, you can Google it, you know? I don't need to tell you. Todd Phillips showing restraint. One time, he maybe. Through a cartoon opening as metaphor. Okay, that cartoon, I was really on board for. I liked what I saw. I liked what I saw, that cartoon.
00:33:48
Speaker
Yeah, you had to get your food so you missed like the very opening. But just seeing that Warner Brothers logo and the like Looney tunes of like that just triggers something for me emotionally. So I was already like.
00:34:03
Speaker
on board. I miss that. And when I came in, my first thought was, oh, Looney Tunes, that's fucking cool. And then, well, I thought Warner Brothers so they can like, you know, evoke Looney Tunes like directly, probably, but or invoke whichever. And and the fact that they got the triplets of Belleville animator like that, like that's I love. That's probably like one of my top
00:34:28
Speaker
Five animated movie like I just just for the aesthetic and music alone is like what I vibe to the so I was like Oh, well, that's already you're making some choices here that this is like one opening with a cartoon getting these guys to do the cartoon animation and then I think
00:34:46
Speaker
You know, we've seen several movies this year where like the opening image isn't exactly part of the story, but like tells you what you're going to
Symbolism and Identity Themes
00:34:56
Speaker
see. Like when we talked about substance where you see like, you know, the egg yolk splitting, but like this seeing these two
00:35:02
Speaker
parts of Arthur and him wrestling with his shadow self. It basically tells you what's going to happen in the movie because then like the cops are coming. His shadow self is as Joker is like on stage and then Arthur starts wrestling with them and then they become one. You know, like they can't separate. It's in it. It's like, yeah, that is that is exactly what this movie is about. So I thought that was cool. Yeah. Yeah. It was a really cool opening sequence. What are we saying, Chris?
00:35:31
Speaker
Oh, I don't know, because like after that sequence, you know, you get dropped into, I don't know, where we left off, not too far after, but it's been a certain amount of time. Like, I don't remember. Like, I think when the trials starting, they say that his murders happened two years ago or something. So it's not exactly real time since the movie, because it's been four years since 2019 when when the original
00:35:55
Speaker
If that makes sense, Gotham trials just are notoriously slow, especially since the Dent Act came into place. It's just like Harvey. It's just like, you got to make trials longer so I could sound and look cooler.
00:36:15
Speaker
on TV because that's me. One of my favorite parts about the court scenes is like anytime Harvey is unbuttoning his suit jacket and rebutting it to sit down. I love that. Within like seconds he'll button it to like make a dramatic emphasis and then unbutton it.
Character Portrayal Choices
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah. Because there's multiple versions of I mean there's a
00:36:38
Speaker
so many versions of all these characters by this point. This stuff's been, these characters been around for like, oh, like 100 years, basically. And, but like, you can do Harvey Dent either the, you know, Aaron Eckhart way where he's like, Oh, he was a saint and then fell and after he became to face or you can
00:36:56
Speaker
be like he was a power chasing dick or split the difference of he did try to do good but had this darker side that came out. And so I do appreciate that they're just like, no, Harvey is a pompous dick. It's like self-important. It fits the cynical tone of this universe. It's like, yeah, the Waynes are bad. There's no good people in this world.
00:37:19
Speaker
there's no good people in Gotham and allegedly New York where this court trial takes place like I was like wait hold on are we not in Gotham anymore are we in New York like that's pretty weird but like you I don't like I don't know every angle of New York I've only been there a few times but like I
00:37:39
Speaker
was like, I couldn't tell where I was. I still thought I was in like Gotham for most of it because but any exterior shot, I'm like, looking at how beautiful the shots are most of the time. I'm not looking for like, Oh, that's Chicago, a piece of Chicago. That's a piece of Detroit or New York. It's I'm like, I can't kind of tell where I am. And like these buildings that they're using for the set pieces are
00:38:02
Speaker
far and few between. There isn't a lot in the movie. There's usually see it when he's being transported to and from the trial. Yeah. Yeah. From Arkham to the trial. Yeah. It it it
00:38:15
Speaker
It's a very different kind of Gotham, at least for me. It has a specific griminess.
Gotham's Aesthetic
00:38:22
Speaker
You feel gross almost when you see these characters on the streets. It feels like when Bo is afraid when Joaquin goes out on the streets, it feels like it could get to that type of insanity.
00:38:41
Speaker
Yeah. No, I think that's what they're going for. I mean, a lot of these 70s movies that Todd Fields is clearing, like Taxi Driver, that was before New York got cleaned up. That wasn't really set design in Taxi Driver. It was like, that's just how that shit looked. It had a grimy, more dangerous look. And I think he captured some of it.
00:39:05
Speaker
But I did. I did. That did throw me off when they kept saying New York. I mean, I guess could it in logically in universe, could he have committed the crimes and been incarcerated in New Jersey and they try him in New York? No, that would because it's the state of New York versus Arthur Fleck. So Gotham just is in New York in this universe. Right. That's or it's adjacent, which I mean, like I don't have a Todd Phillips. Joker like
00:39:34
Speaker
map of Gotham, like Matt Reeves has a map of Gotham. But like the idea of like Gotham just being a pebble away from New York is fine. Like I'm not like, I mean, it doesn't take like New Jersey, New Jersey to New York is like, you know, you go over a turnpike, right? I don't know. I don't actually live on these. So I don't know how far they are. In my mind, I'm like, Oh, they're right next to each other, right? Like New Jersey is basically New York Junior, right? Yeah.
00:40:04
Speaker
That's something I didn't pick up on. So the trials in New York. They say the state of New York versus Arthur Fleck. And like so that's where he's when he's at the courthouse. They're in New York, at least.
00:40:16
Speaker
Is any of that established in the first movie, just New York's existence in this world at all? I do not think so. I don't remember that. I just remember them making it look like 70s New York. And I just I didn't make the conclusion of like, oh, Gotham must be in New York now. I was just like, well, that's just the aesthetic that he's trying to mimic and evoke. So that's that's why it looks this way. But I think he's like, like, nope, this is New York.
00:40:48
Speaker
Damn, he just hates comic book fans. What are you talking about? It won't even be in Gotham. He's like, fuck you guys. That was the major subversion of my expectations. I was like, oh, this is going to be a Gotham story. It's actually a New York story. There's one thing I know about Joker. One thing I know about Joker, he operates within the walls or the city of Gotham.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah. Why does he not fuck around in other places? You know, like, so he keeps getting caught in Gotham. He probably should go to, you know, just joker. Other jokers in general should probably branch out. So now I need like more clarification. So how much does any of this movie take place in Gotham?
00:41:34
Speaker
Yeah, the asylum is Gotham. I know, I'm saying the courthouse, when they're in New York, because the state of New York, I'm saying Gotham is a city. Just the courthouse stuff is New York. I think Gotham is a city in New York, in this world. New York, the state. Okay. Because they say the state of New York versus Arthur Fleck. That would make sense. Didn't pick up on any of that. Okay.
00:42:00
Speaker
So like Gotham is basically New York City, you know, but like the state is New York. Because like the asylum because he is in Arkham, right? Like that, that's.
Arkham's Portrayal
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah, because there's the Arkham Hotel thing in that one like dance sequence. So I think it is Arkham.
00:42:19
Speaker
And then Arkham Hotel. In only one Elseworld DC story, is it called Arkham Hotel? It's like, oh, that asylum? Yeah, the hotel. Yeah. A nice place. Asylums are kind of like hotels, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, Harley feels that way. Lean specifically. They had vacancy, if you said vacancy. Yeah, I didn't see the no vacancy sign, so they're not full up.
00:42:45
Speaker
In this fantasy world, they're not overcrowded, like most prisons and sanitarium usually are. Which is kind of surprising for this world. You'd think it would be overcrowded. No, I'm saying in the fantasy world, it's not. Oh, the fantasy world. I think in the actual Gotham problem, I mean, I don't know, things seem pretty loosey goosey there in terms of like the
00:43:08
Speaker
how much the guards care when they're doing stuff. Like I think we both had the reaction of like when she's about to leave. I mean, later we learned she checked herself out because she just was self admitted. But they just let her in the author's cell and were like, oh, he's killed five people that you know of. But he's on good terms with Brendan Gleason.
00:43:29
Speaker
Is it Brendan? What's his? No, Brendan. Yeah. At that point, they are pals. So is it literally just like he's like, oh, Arthur, Arthur's my buddy. I'm going to go. But he smacks the shit out of him for touching him. That one. Yeah, that caught me off guard. And it was a hard smack to you right on the back of the head. But then Arthur, I think, gets him back when he's like unconscious or faking unconscious, like near the end of the movie. Did you guys catch that when all the guards like carrying him? He gets like a good slap in. I thought that was a good.
00:43:58
Speaker
It gets more than a good slap in two seconds after that. That's a hard scene to watch. Yeah. So what did you guys think happened or do you guys want to talk about that later?
00:44:11
Speaker
I mean, we don't have to go in order. We can jump around. Yeah, we're in the spoiler. So you're talking about specifically in the the showers when the shower is some kind of assault is.
Assault Scene Analysis
00:44:21
Speaker
Yeah, we cut away from it, but like it's definitely meant to be like they strip him naked. They purposely say that. And then the camera cuts away and and then it cuts to after.
00:44:35
Speaker
The assault. He doesn't have pants anymore when they throw him back in his cell. And he just seems completely broken, like spiritually mentally. So it's like, yeah, this was probably I mean, it seems like they raped him. Yeah, that's what I thought, too. I mean, that would have been too much for anybody to handle if I am. Yeah. Thank you for cutting, I guess. Even the implication is a lot. I don't know.
00:45:01
Speaker
Yeah, it is a lot. And like a lot of other Todd Phillips choices, carrying over from the first movie, I even though I'm I am leaning positive on this movie overall, there are moments like that where I'm like, OK, I can kind of see narratively. Well, I mean, yeah, it fits this fucking cynical nihilistic
00:45:21
Speaker
like worldview and tone of this Gotham. But then if narratively, if the purpose is to get Arthur that like kind of his spirit is broken. So when he does his closing remarks, he's kind of just like, you know, fuck, you know, fuck it. I'm just going to confess. Like if that's what you're trying to get him to emotionally for that, I feel like you could have done it without sexual assault, right? Well, because he's
00:45:45
Speaker
Sexual assault was a part of his trauma, and I almost took it as, like, okay, we're getting this character to regress so far back into, like, almost a childlike state, which then gets him to, like, admit to everything. That was kind of, like, my takeaway. Like, I don't know if those guards, like, intended that to happen, but... I think they were just trying to punish him, but, like, yeah. But I think that was the result.
00:46:10
Speaker
I think that's a good read, especially like how he plays everything post that specifically his face when they're back in the cell, that he does seem like a helpless child.
Courtroom Drama Potential
00:46:21
Speaker
And and that's that's that's a lot of what's talked about in the courtroom scenes as we are. You know, obviously, this is a court, arguably a courtroom drama musical. I like I was I was like, man, I they should have gone to the trial sooner. I love courtroom dramas and. Yeah.
00:46:41
Speaker
They should have had Tom Cruise in this, honestly. That's what I was thinking. Get Hank in the court. Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson.
00:46:47
Speaker
As another Joker, have Jack Nicholson there. We'll talk about that too, Doug. Other Jokers? Other Jokers, yeah. We'll talk about the Jokerverse. Enter the Jokerverse. I would have been fine if this whole movie took place in a court, honestly. I love the court room drama.
00:47:13
Speaker
Here's the thing. I think the first hour I'm into a lot of the things the movie's doing, especially once he gets to the music class and like we're embracing that part. Well, partly embracing a part of a movie. I'll address that in a
Character Development Critique
00:47:29
Speaker
second. But like it did feel repetitive that we have to spend like almost an hour before the trial of like, OK, Arthur's back to being Don Trodden and like a loser. Everyone's shitting on him. Like life is shitting on him.
00:47:41
Speaker
I get that we're trying to draw this dichotomy between Arthur and Joker, but I was like, well, he seemed pretty self-confident after doing those killings at the end of the first movie. So could he have at least a hint of that, not fully regress back to the starting point from the first movie so it's not just a full
00:48:05
Speaker
I just don't like it when sequels have to reset someone's arc like that. It's like, no, let's pick up from where they left off. I don't think they super do that. I mean, they have him on meds. Like, I'm not saying that all meds in Gotham are good meds, like the top tier that makes someone
00:48:36
Speaker
Cause like that's, you know, in my head, I'm like, Oh, what's the justification for the, the, the meds that he's on. And oh yeah, I think that regress, but like that's, that's far from, yeah, I do think that he's zonked a lot of what at what point does he stop taking his meds? Do they acknowledge that? Is he taking them throughout the whole movie? It's a couple of scenes after he meets Lee. Yeah.
00:49:01
Speaker
We I don't think they show where he hid the pills, but the visual implication that I got after he meets her and we see him do the pill routine again when he takes them because it cuts away from when she gives him the cup. He looks at them and then it cuts to like the mouth check of seeing his tongue under the tongue. So I was like, OK, so he did something in between then and then of like, I don't know.
00:49:28
Speaker
Put him in his butt put him in his butt. I don't know something Somewhere it went somewhere. But like yeah, I do think that like through Lee's introduction, right? We're like she's there she's there and he's like noticing her for like the first time and this music class Becomes available to him even though it's like yeah again like man Arkham does sound like a bit of a rehab hotel Which I mean
00:49:57
Speaker
It's Arkham Asylum is seemingly like
00:50:04
Speaker
Obviously, we have mental institution in prison, right?
Arkham's Complexity
00:50:07
Speaker
More of those vibes have been expressed in literally probably every version of Batman is Arkham is just as bad as any other prison in America. Like worse, probably. Yeah. And but this is also an asylum. So we have doctors, psychiatrists, we have CEOs. They're not even cops. And these are just CEOs who are responsible for these people.
00:50:32
Speaker
you know they don't have i mean i don't think anybody is looking at the ceo with.
00:50:38
Speaker
scrutiny like oh you're breaking HR because these these fuckers are just as pig as the rest of the cops of Gotham. It seems like they are. Yeah they can operate with impunity kind of seems because in the the assault scene we mentioned we can Arthur can hear his buddy like getting killed basically it sounds like they maybe accidentally choke him to death or they're like. Yeah that was a very upsetting scene.
00:51:02
Speaker
It was extremely upsetting because we're more upsetting that we're not seeing it this holding on his face and That really stops me from being able to really latch on to these Joker movies I think like that I don't I don't find much purpose and the Darkness that these movies go to you know what
Nihilistic Tone Debate
00:51:23
Speaker
I mean? Do you need to latch on to that though?
00:51:26
Speaker
I think there is a purpose. There are some dark movies that I am able to like really, really latch on to, I'd say. Like No Country for Old Men is my favorite movie and that's like a very nihilistic movie. I think there is a purpose.
00:51:47
Speaker
to it. I just question it at certain points of like, could we have gotten this purpose across in a different manner in terms of the structure? Because. I would like. Yeah. Sorry. No worries. Because I want to jump to a different thing real quick.
00:52:07
Speaker
I don't mind the darkness or nihilism. In an age where so much IP franchise stuff feels very overly safe, it's like, okay, well, they are willing to go there, so I appreciate it for that quality.
00:52:31
Speaker
certain choices. I was like, could we have gotten Arthur to this point sooner or in a different way? Because I almost feel like having to justify, I'm not opposed to the idea of the music course and that's how he meets Lee.
Fantasy Elements in Musical Sequences
00:52:47
Speaker
I think that's kind of a
00:52:50
Speaker
They're like, meat cute's cute. I like their chemistry, Arthur and Lee and their seeds together, but I was like, we don't need to really justify the scene. And musicals
00:53:02
Speaker
characters don't have to like be like, okay, here's this first year singing class. Now we can get into the musical numbers. Like, like I kind of wanted there them to be jumping feet first into that from the, from the get go. And then, and then once he goes to the music class, maybe we just like keep doubling down on that and the numbers get more fantastical or something. Like I want it more fantasy with the musical aspect, I think. I agree with that. Yeah.
00:53:28
Speaker
know if I felt the same way. I was kind of like, I feel like truly like when I was watching this movie, I was like, this is okay. You know, I'm not bothered by this. I'm not bothered by their interjections of the musical numbers. I
00:53:43
Speaker
I don't know, I felt maybe I'm just like mid on this, like this buildup. I didn't think it was bad. I didn't think it was like so good. Like I was, you know, I will say this. I don't hate it. I just, I just, from what I'm not, well, I always say I'm not a big musical guy. And then I started thinking about my favorite musicals. There's like quite a few that I like. Yeah, I do really enjoy musicals. I enjoy them more in like play form than movie form. A lot of the times there's something I really enjoy about just a live stage like musical.
00:54:13
Speaker
But I do enjoy a really good musical, a movie musical where I can go back and listen to the soundtrack and still really enjoy it. Great musical will really work for me. I didn't hate the musical scores. I don't really have much to say else on just the transition of the meet-cute because on the song choices themselves,
00:54:41
Speaker
was like, if they're going to choose good songs that I don't know how many people, like you've maybe heard a couple in your life, I would say throughout this soundtrack. Like my parents would recognize more of this soundtrack than I, I definitely did recognize it. Yeah. But like, yeah, there was some that I'm like, well, I've definitely heard songs in this style, but not this specific one they're doing. Yeah. And they're renditions. I want to applaud
00:55:09
Speaker
Both of them. I mean like Lady Gaga her voice is incredible and her Performances as Lee I think are pretty good for what she's given like because it's again. It's not like a Joker and Harley
00:55:27
Speaker
story.
Harley Quinn's Role
00:55:28
Speaker
She just happens to be in it. And it's Arthur's story in Lee is a conduit through these things we're exploring. Like she's, she's definitely not, she's almost like intentionally a cipher in some ways that we're not supposed to fully be able to figure out what her deal is. And I kind of, I do kind of like that of like, it doesn't resolve a lot of things with her. Uh, what'd you want to say?
00:55:53
Speaker
Um, I just wanted to say real quick, I don't know how people are going to feel about Lady Gaga and her performance overall, especially since it is Harley Quinn and Margot Robbie. Her performance of that character was like so recent, but.
00:56:08
Speaker
I really enjoyed Lady Gaga in this movie. She might have been my favorite part of this movie. Like I think when she was on screen, those were the moments that I was enjoying the movie the most. Just the look in her face, like the look of her face and the look in her eyes. Like it just, I don't know, there was something there. I feel like she had some juice. I wish she had more juice screen time. Like I think a lot of, again, like I've been thinking about this one point because I was like,
00:56:38
Speaker
intrigued by the casting choice. I think I was very happy of this portrayal of Harley. I am personally sick of the Margot Robbie Harley. I do not think I agree. She has like the limited amount of time that we get with Gaga is
00:57:06
Speaker
feel like what we got eventually in Birds of Prey, but even then, this Harley is.
00:57:17
Speaker
pretty underdeveloped. And I would say the same thing kind of for Gaga, but she, I wish she had more screen time is my point. Like I wish she had more dialogue with Arthur, but it's in a predicament, right? Like you're in this, she obviously has access to say.
00:57:37
Speaker
I said, if it was more of like a two-hander in this movie. Yeah. Well, because the idea of the title, so I invoked it, Folly Adoo, if I'm pronouncing it, I'm not fluent French speaker, but that means a shared delusion. And this movie talks about these fantasies. It reminds you of the fantasy relationship Arthur had in the first one was Ozzy Beats, that like he imagined this whole thing with his neighbor.
00:58:07
Speaker
And this time, though, I think the whole idea is that, like, no, he's not imagining a thing with Harley. She's imagining a thing with him, and then he's buying into this fantasy in
Arthur's Passive Nature
00:58:23
Speaker
her. Like, she's the one making the fantasy, I think, because he's like a pretty passive guy for a lot of the movies. But he's susceptible. It's her fantasy of him, basically.
00:58:36
Speaker
Right. He builds them up. Well, and then when because he doesn't have the plan of like after he if he can get off for these murders and then get out, he asked her and then what? Because he doesn't have a plan like he's not like he doesn't have a 10 year plan for like and then I'm going to take over Gotham or so. Like he's not trying to be the clown prince of crime. I think he just he's just a lonely, sad guy. So when he when he when he hears that
00:59:02
Speaker
And I don't know. Of course, she's like she's lying to him the entire movie for her gain. Right. That's her want for him to become the Joker, this person who killed these six people. And I I was, you know, when you're when you're watching someone who is abused, being abused and exploited, it is that's like the hardest part about this movie is that it is so
00:59:31
Speaker
dark and like life is shit. Arthur acknowledges this himself. But seeing Lee go, I bought your old apartment and he just like he quick reacts and he's like, I don't I hate that. I hate that. Yeah. And I'm like, she she just then her reaction is like.
00:59:56
Speaker
Oh, I thought you'd like that. Right. Because she is, you know, watch these TV adaptations of him, which I think that's like, well, I mean, if that's not commentary on the fascination of true crime, of actual true crime and the portrayal of these different people who are abuse, abuse victims and abusers and then different
01:00:23
Speaker
People like Netflix has one, like every fucking five minutes that they'll. Oh, there's there's a little like industry for this like true crime stuff.
Lee's Manipulation of Arthur
01:00:33
Speaker
Basically. Yeah. I mean, that's what makes the what was the the curse with Nathan Fielder? Like such an interesting watch throughout is like that kind of collapse of society where
01:00:51
Speaker
you are you're enduring this for entertainment and so much of Lee's manipulation is for her entertainment for because as we find out she's not really there on like
01:01:07
Speaker
You know, she lies to him about being incarcerated or what is what is the word? It's not incarcerated. That's for prison, but like institutionalized, institutionalized that she was she she voluntarily committed herself. She has she never burned down her family's place. Her parents' house, her like mom's house or something. Yeah.
01:01:29
Speaker
Uh, and then I liked the little thrown in detail of like, she is studying psych, like she has gone like med school or to some degree studied psychiatry. So not fully doing the, that she was Joker psychiatrist origin story, but just throwing in like the little connection there.
01:01:46
Speaker
Yeah. So I've been thinking about the folly ado, meaning a shared delusion type of thing a little bit more. And I might be, this might be a stretch, but I'm kind of thinking now the shared delusion is in between a Joker and Lee or Arthur and Lee. I'm starting to think it's between it's Lee, it's all of society. They all have this like delusion and like,
01:02:14
Speaker
All the people like riding in the streets wearing this like clown mask and everything it's all just like a shared delusion and. I don't know maybe it's. In a way Todd Phillips kind of calling the fans of the first one delusional.
01:02:32
Speaker
I think so. I think that's I think it's all of the above with with that of like it is the fantasy between Lee and Arthur, but then also between Arthur and his Joker acolytes.
Societal Commentary in Joker
01:02:45
Speaker
But then by extension, the audience and the, you know, diehard fans of that first one. And just I think the idea of fans of the Joker as a concept, because before Joker 2019, obviously, like Joker Joker has
01:03:01
Speaker
Everyone knew him as Jared Leto. The iconic... That's when I think of Joker. I think of him in that bed of knives just rolling around. Or whatever his laugh is. Yeah, he kind of has this like...
01:03:18
Speaker
I talk when I bask. I'm just talking. I like knives. You like knives? It's like, I don't know. Like, whatever that was. That adaptation of Joker and Harley, I could live without. So we're going to miss, you know? We can't get it all. That man has an Academy Award.
01:03:41
Speaker
Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little. Jared Little
01:04:00
Speaker
Ledger, multiple people have won Oscars for playing the Joker. Joker is now like how doing Shakespeare was a prestigious thing that the actors wanted to do. It was like, okay, well, I don't want to play King Lear. Fuck that. I want to be fucking Joker. Can you get me the Joker role? I need an Oscar.
01:04:17
Speaker
That's why Daniel Day Lewis came out of retirement. It isn't for his son's film. It's because he knows Joaquin's out. He's messaging James Gunn and Peter Safran. He's like, boys, I'm a method actor. I'm here for this role because I will live as the Joker. I will start committing acts of terrorism. I'll do it all.
Prestige of Playing Joker
01:04:40
Speaker
It's no coincidence he announced that, like, the day this movie comes out and this character dies at the end of it. Coincidence? I think not. Coincidence or conspiracy? Coincidence or conspiracy? Yeah. That is that is funny. But I think I do think you're right, Nick, like, or your answer to answer your question is like, is this. Phillips.
01:05:09
Speaker
talking about this madness that we all experienced. Again, I mentioned in the intro was how many people showed up to go see this movie? How many people took from that movie
01:05:29
Speaker
what his intention was and then this direct response to the reception of this movie that I'm sure making this movie was motivated by his
01:05:46
Speaker
like probably his total confusion to the reception, right? Making a beautiful movie, making a good movie is difficult. Making a comic book movie that is not trying to directly appease a fan base with a
01:06:10
Speaker
I mean, I could argue original story in my head because I don't I've never seen a portrayal like this to the extent like in the comics. We always get Joker's story is either comical, but sad or pretty fucking sad and dreary that acknowledges like his trajectory towards this and or like, I mean,
01:06:36
Speaker
The closest is... Wait, so are you asking if this would be considered original or adaptation?
Comic Book Adaptation Originality
01:06:48
Speaker
Is that what you're saying?
01:06:49
Speaker
I'm not arguing it is or isn't. I think that this take and the times that comic book movies take a swing at differentiating themselves from the source materials, like the different universes, whatever, what have you, the runs, the comic book runs of these, and even the movies.
01:07:09
Speaker
Distinguishing yourself from the pack is very difficult. This negative reaction to this film, whether it's musical based, you're just not into musicals, you're not into gaga, or you're not into
01:07:28
Speaker
a sequel to a movie that you thought was great, where the hopes are that a sequel will be good, but it probably won't be as good as the first one that you saw and the feelings you left with. I think for a lot of people that will review this movie or eventually see it, they will come away with like, just let me down. And this response that
Fanbase Reactions
01:07:51
Speaker
like they I from interviews and from my personal opinion,
01:07:56
Speaker
opinion of after watching this film I do think that his feeling of like you you're taking away the wrong bits but like it's you know subjective your your viewing of this could be it's a really fucking dumb movie that's fine say what you will about that and
01:08:11
Speaker
You know, but I think that this response of like, this isn't you shouldn't cheer for this guy. And I think a lot of people cheered when Gary Glitter's like song comes on and he's dancing. It's it's it's an electric moment. A song choice already off putting.
01:08:31
Speaker
too even though like if you're like familiar with jock jams and that period like that song was so fucking popular because oh it was basketball um and um him doing the dance is like he's living this fantasy he's living his life he's so much more confident than this character this meek broken man from society that it is attractive to any type of fantasy of
01:09:00
Speaker
you know, we can argue like quote unquote betterment. Right. That life is better for him than the shit life than he is dealing with. And it makes sense for this character to dive into that fantasy as if it was like a part of him that he would want more than his shit life and his shit apartment with a shit mom and the shit government systems that let him down his failed career, you know, not being funny and
01:09:29
Speaker
It's just a sad story, but my point is that Phillips, I think, did a number on the fan base, and I appreciate that. You guys mentioned swings of directors. I think this was a big swing, and it hit the audience right where they deserved.
01:09:53
Speaker
I agree with it being a big swing to I am I guess part of what I did and I kind of said this a little bit earlier but part of what I did really struggle with with the first Joker movie yet was like
01:10:07
Speaker
It's the same thing I struggle with at the end of the first Dune movie is everybody's like, I fucking love this character, Paul, Paul, this. And I was like, guys, Paul fucking sucks. And then Dune 2, I felt vindicated and I'm like, yeah, you're not here to cheer for Paul. If you're doing that, you're taking away the wrong thing.
01:10:29
Speaker
And talking about it more, I do really appreciate and respect this movie for kind of pulling the same thing that like Dune Part 2 is pulling to being like, yeah, you guys shouldn't cheer for this guy. And it's like, why the fuck are you like,
01:10:45
Speaker
idolizing or like why do you love this like awful character who's like done these like terrible things like and it i kind of felt that towards people walking out of joker i was like why do you guys love like such a nasty like movie or like such a mean-spirited movie and i do kind of
01:11:04
Speaker
Appreciate and respect this movie a lot for doing that and also being subversive like from the very beginning i did kind of like, wanna see like this joker fully formed when i walked into this i didn't wanna seem being like the clown prince of crime but i want to see him a bit more realized like
Subverting Audience Expectations
01:11:24
Speaker
what happens with this clown makeup character like after words like,
01:11:28
Speaker
But I do really respect that Todd Phillips is kind of going to be like, all right, that's what the audience wants. I'm not going to give them that right now. They're not going to get that. He's refusing to give us any violent. Joker kills no one in this movie, right? Correct.
01:11:49
Speaker
Like in a fantasy sequence, he like shoots some people in the court, but that was not real. So right in the actual reality of the movie, he does not kill anyone in this. No. I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's one really bold to do in a movie about the Joker. What were you saying? Sorry.
01:12:14
Speaker
No, I was just like, I just admire the refusal to engage in like any kind of fans, because like I, my feeling watching that sequence I just talked about in the courtroom where he's singing and then, you know, he like takes out a gun and starts like popping people in the court. And then he like takes the mallet and like smashes the judge's head. There is like, there is like a visceral kind of sad because because you've been seeing him
01:12:42
Speaker
you know, put down the whole movie that you're like, yeah, let's show Arthur and then cutting back to like, no, we're not giving you even we're not giving you any of that. Like he he's he's a fucking loser
Thematic Wrapping in Adaptations
01:12:53
Speaker
is he's a coward. He's not he's not doing that. Yeah, man, people aren't going to fucking like this. Well, I think if you're if you're going again, like your expectations for what this like it, it cannot be avoided that this is thematically wrapped in DC
01:13:12
Speaker
comics. It can't. And that's what makes it, I think, pretty good is that when it's just, I don't think it's a direct comparison of quality, but maybe it is Andor. Andor has this thematic rapper of Star Wars.
01:13:32
Speaker
Man, that ain't Star Wars. That's a World War drama. Yeah, a World War II spy drama. Yeah. It just happens to be Star Wars, right? Tony Gilroy up front very much does not care about Star Wars. He has a story he wants to tell, and then Lucasfilm gives him the name of Star Wars planets or vehicles, and then he just plugs that into his spy story. Yeah.
01:13:59
Speaker
And I think that's like there's a sheer difference between like people who adapt comic book material and do more fan service than their
01:14:11
Speaker
like their personal wants of like a story, a character that happens to have these things around them or in them or on their person, right? It could be a lightsaber, right? Everybody's like, oh, and or so successful because they have a lightsaber or like, oh, the penguin isn't going to have Batman in it. Oh, I hope Batman
01:14:51
Speaker
either appears or doesn't. I don't give a shit.
01:14:55
Speaker
part two is that like we're seeing this mob war escalate and stuff and all this like effort and people are being lost on both sides and then maybe off screen at the very end Batman swoops in and like you know like this drug shipment they keep saying is like gonna change the game like Batman just sees it like just takes that off the board and fucks it like all this planning of the odds to spend a season doing is like yeah fuck you
01:15:21
Speaker
Yeah, Batman just comes in, just kicks him in his other toe and he's like, oh, my little toes. Oh, no. Batman, do you mix the flavors? You don't mix the flavors at all. You got to mix the flavors. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm I'm I'm where you're at, Chris, especially with like comic stuff and just and just like
01:15:45
Speaker
Pop culture in general is so, you know, we've joked a lot on this podcast about how they kind of give X back to the fans, but I like almost- They took this away from the fans.
Criticism of Fan Service
01:15:56
Speaker
Yeah. And good, I say. We need to take more. I physically revolted fan service now, kind of. It's like not- Doug.
01:16:04
Speaker
They need to give it back to the fans. Give Joker back to the fans. They've taken... Joker has been taken away from the fans for too long. We need to give him back to the fans.
01:16:18
Speaker
We got to get him back to the fan. Yeah, I mean, it just it just this feels like a breath. And like, I don't know if we'll get something like this with an IP as like big as Batman in the near future, because it sounds like we're going towards even safer in more fans to see. Like, I don't know if you guys saw this story about various studios like Disney, Warner Brothers, probably like, yeah, all the bigger ones.
01:16:44
Speaker
They're assembling super fan focus groups to assess various materials for a franchise to avoid social media backlash. They will tell us if you do that, fans are gonna retaliate. If it's early enough and the movie isn't finished yet, we can make those kinds of changes.
01:17:01
Speaker
That sounds like the worst shit ever to me. Like that. That seems like that seems like the last Jedi freaked everyone, not just Disney. It sounds like they listened to our podcast and they're giving it back to the fans. I hope the next comic book, whatever it is, maybe it's
01:17:17
Speaker
Joker 3 or whatever. It's the Batman versus Joker, whatever the fucking story is. I hope it's just like the people of Gotham have too much power. And Batman's like, I got to beat up all these people who have all the power, these people. And it's not the rich people. It's the poor people. It's the nerds. Yeah. He's just beating up on the middle class.
01:17:38
Speaker
He's not beating up on the poor who have to do crime because Gotham's shit and won't hire people. And these elite fucks who won't hire them, it's like. Or if the fans decide it, it could just be Batman beating up Todd Phillips the whole time. Oh, they probably are dreaming of that sequence. Yeah. Speaking of, I had a good idea for how Batman could have been incorporated into this movie. Is it what you said during when we were watching it towards the end?
01:18:09
Speaker
well no but that was funny when the big explosion came I had the idea I was like
01:18:29
Speaker
If Todd Phillips really wants to go for it, he has to have that little fucking kid dress up as Batman and fight the Joker in this movie. Kid Batman against old man Joker. Like, just make it full on. Just go to just ridiculous lengths with this movie. He should have done it. We should have had a kid Batman.
Joker's New Setup
01:18:50
Speaker
We can still do it in the in the next one, because like, yeah, we're I mean, we're in spoilers and we've jumped all around, but there is a new joker set up at the end of this. Well, that's Heath Ledger's Joker. It's supposed to be Heath Ledger's Joker. No, it's not. I mean, it's it's he's copying his cutting his face in the background at the end. I was like, that's Heath Ledger's. We finally got the origin. The fans got the origin for Heath Ledger's Joker that we've all been asking for.
01:19:17
Speaker
Where does he come from? Why? Where did he get those scars? Oh, he got them after stabbing another joker in prison. Yeah. Oh, and Nick, I remember afterwards, you were like, when the guard tells him that someone's the visit him, who is it? I've been thinking about it in like just based on how bleak this world and these movies are. I think the guard was in on it and like was setting Arthur up to be killed. There was no visitor. No one's visiting him. No one cares about him.
01:19:43
Speaker
uh the guard the guard was just you know they they they wanted to i think all the guards were probably down to get rid of uh arthur at that point and like that like maybe that's that nod there was something more sinister to that that brendan gleason does because maybe they all knew that he was about to get got they're like yeah we'll just set him up this crazy guy will just take care of him for us damn yes we'll never know
01:20:08
Speaker
like yeah this like there's a lot out of the inference of the end right from that point to is this a joker the origin of the the actual the real joker yeah or is it the
01:20:26
Speaker
I had a third when I lost it. Oh, but to me, to me, it fits thematically because you could be like, oh, is that too is now is he doing fan service that we're seeing a very ledger like Joker being a born in the origin for that? I think it's telling that when he starts cutting into his face, that's happening out of focus off screen. Like it's on screen, but it's out of focus. Todd Phillips like, I don't give a shit about that. That's not the story I'm telling. And well, then.
01:20:54
Speaker
They cut to this other dude fall into a vat of acid after that and this is pretty Weird that they're doing this and then another dude falls in a vat of acid because I think we've had two jokers Fond Do you guys know about the
01:21:11
Speaker
I'm pretty positive it's in New 52, the run of DC's New 52.
Joker's Mysterious Origins
01:21:17
Speaker
And so this universe is rebooted much to the chagrin of the comic book fan base. They're like a new universe. Everybody gets so frustrated at a new universe.
01:21:26
Speaker
It's like, it's a new blank slate. Just chill out. Let it cook for a bit. And people have their opinions on New 52. But at some point, Batman becomes like God in a chair. And Batman's like, throughout this whole universe, you're not told who is the Joker. He doesn't know the identity. And Batman's like the greatest detective in the world. But this is his biggest mystery, right? Which is like, that's pretty cool. OK, you don't know. And you're in this God chair that can answer you questions. Yeah, he can ask it anything.
01:21:56
Speaker
the chair goes there's actually three of them and Batman's like just goes full home improvement and it's like perplexed he's like there's three of them and he's like oh fuck this mystery just got fucking a whole lot worse for me now I got a track down three
01:22:15
Speaker
And we can yada yada this ending to into like is this guy just a copycat killer because he's watching him the whole time. I think that was another thing I didn't realize until I was talking about it with my wife.
Persona vs. Identity
01:22:28
Speaker
I was like, yeah, we cut to him in the like he's he's watching Arthur most of the time.
01:22:33
Speaker
most of the time he doesn't seem to he has disdain and you know he he wants to get rid of arthur at the end but he doesn't have that look earlier it's kind of kind of like well let's see what this guy is going to do like because he i guess you know as he's a hardcore fan he wants to see will arthur live up to this
01:22:53
Speaker
idea that he created basically you know like you like they talk all this talk of Joker as a persona as another self he he's it's not just for something for him to slip into for so he can excuse his violent out-person reactions the thing it's everyone's adopting this Lee all the fans at the courthouse this other guy who you know wants to just take the mantle for himself like that it's like yeah there Joe like it like
01:23:21
Speaker
Arthur says in his closing comments, there is no joker like as an actual literal person. It's like an idea and and ideas are bulletproof or whatever they say and be. I yeah, and that's that's probably one of the more. Hmm.
Ambiguity in Joker's Ending
01:23:41
Speaker
don't know if you want to consider that another fuck you right to people who were like hoping that this character was going to be the Joker is like again like Todd Phillips just saying fuck you it's like not what you think it's going to be and establishing its ambiguity at the same time like that is interesting that is interesting as like a
01:24:05
Speaker
whether it's it becomes this origin of one of the many jokers that there probably could be in this is that all of these are all these people who are fawning over him are just as bad as any Manson fan as any of the other killers who happen to be I don't know I don't understand this I've never looked at a serial killer I was like oh
01:24:27
Speaker
guy's a good looking guy but like Dahmer was was that yeah there's copycat killers there's copycat people who just want that to live that life and that like pick me kind of attitude towards these people who are just like off their rocker and some and are just looking for an excuse to have their bad day and much like he had his bad day when when he talks about that like killing and he regrets it
01:24:53
Speaker
Right. I like I know that I've sat with it more. I like pretty much everything the movie is doing in that last 20 minute chunk or like it is like, yeah, him like because it is anticlimactic for he even says what he would have done. Like, yeah, I would have made some grand speech blaming all of you in society for my actions. And he's like, yeah, but I'm I'm just tired of that. And I just wanted to I just wanted to end like I'm not.
01:25:22
Speaker
I'm not the joke, you know, this joker you want me to be, that's not a real person. And that's like the loneliness of this character, of Arthur. And the tragedy of it is that, yeah, he is, was alone this whole time. Like there was people clamoring outside the, the court, Lee is there, but they, Arthur Fleck, the person they could not give less of a shit about. And it's like, Lee. Oh no, that happened again.
01:25:50
Speaker
Okay, all these technical snafus tonight it's it's really like Gotham City is real and it's all these villains are coming after me like they're just I don't know the Maybe because I kept saying they should take it away from the fans the fans Want to give it
Podcast Banter and Villain Humor
01:26:09
Speaker
back. So they're they're like, yeah, we got a fucking sabotage the pod I think that's actually what's happening. You're speaking too loudly about your opinions. I
01:26:17
Speaker
They're trying to silence me. Me, Cesar Catalina, all these great men, you know? Yeah, the lamestream media, they're all just trying to paint you in a terrible way. You're just trying to build a casino in Gotham. How difficult is that to conceptualize? Every mayor is just trying to build a casino. Everybody's just trying to build a casino. I'm pretty positive that is half the criminals in Gotham's underworld, the kingpins.
01:26:43
Speaker
You know what I'm dying to build? I'm dying to build a club. Where else can I funnel my money for denzians of society and how will I ever sell my drugs?
01:26:57
Speaker
Yeah, classic Gotham stuff. So I I don't remember the exact point I left off on, but I remember we were talking about like the final chunk of the movie and how I just really admire how subversive it is in terms of like it refusing to to give Arthur or anyone this this like satisfying happy ending and this going back to how alone he is and that, you know, not only do Lee
01:27:26
Speaker
and his fans not really care about the real him, but there's the really heartbreaking moment when they're just reading from... Oh, oh, no, it's his neighbor when Zazé Beets is talking in...
01:27:43
Speaker
a lot of detail about what his mom really thought about Arthur's like oh so you like had multiple conversations with her like you know a lot about like how she really felt about this guy well I got the impression that it was just like in passing his mom would be like my fucking idiot son or something like that
01:28:04
Speaker
Right. No, I'm sure that's what it was. But the fact that she kept going I was like, it just happened a lot. My idea was like the volume at which he would just talk negatively about Arthur when he wasn't everyone was high. Everyone was dumping on Arthur. And then you then you have to hear court transcripts of his like, yeah, and his mom said he had a tiny dick.
01:28:29
Speaker
No, but what what she actually said about him the idea that you know when she The first movie he's like, oh I was put on this earth to make people smile That's my mom's and that's why he's like that's supposed to be the reason that he got into clowning and comedy and stuff and that that was just some bullshit that she said and that he I he like he like we had already say like he was
01:28:52
Speaker
the whole ending he is regressing to childhood because of he's revisiting this trauma and stuff but then all like stuff like that is like it's taking him back to being this helpless little boy and uh yeah i don't know like yeah we're not supposed to like this guy but the movie is doing a lot to the
01:29:10
Speaker
He's so pathetic and sad that it's just like, fuck. I mean, it's definitely not aspirational. I think it's a painting, the depiction of whether an incel or some kind of psycho killer, but someone like that
01:29:31
Speaker
They're not cool. They're the pathetic losers that are alone. Like we talked about in Longlegs and our Longlegs follow-up. That's the purpose of at least one scene, but probably multiple in Longlegs. It's scary that he's killing these people for the Satan or whatever, but he's also a loser.
01:29:52
Speaker
You know, like, yeah, and that's I do appreciate the movie for really highlighting underlining that. I mean, you can like all that in the first movie, it's not like the like.
01:30:06
Speaker
The first movie isn't like, this guy's great, but I think people take the wrong lessons away from lots of things. Scorsese, who he's clearly riffing on and inspired by, a lot of people missed... There's so many people, and maybe I know too much about this when I got into the Wall Street Bet subreddit when there was the GameStop
01:30:32
Speaker
stop mean stock stuff. I made a little bit of money on that. But anyway, my point is within that subreddit, there's a bunch of dudes who are posting Jordan Belfort memes from Wolf of Wall Street, but unironically, this guy fucking is a badass. And even when the movie in its final scene, it's probably one of them. I mean, I still got a few Scorsese's I got to see, but
01:30:55
Speaker
One of my favorite endings in a Scorsese movie is after he's been to prison, after all of this, he's at a seminar where he's teaching people how to sell and it's like the camera just then turns to this huge auditorium. We see there's a lot of people here. It's like turning the camera back on us as a society as a whole.
01:31:17
Speaker
Would you think that this is aspirational? Like that this guy is like, I mean, yeah, he got rich, I guess, but it was like a cheated American dream and then he went to prison. So it's like, why, why, why would you still want to be him after that? Like what's wrong with you? And, and yeah, that's this, I mean,
01:31:38
Speaker
Scorsese can get that point across in just one movie. He didn't have to do a sequel to Wolf of Wall Street to be like, actually, he's bad. Remember, he's bad. But but you know, I'll give Todd Phillips a grace period of like, you know, he had this is like a good coda. And like I said, I just overall, this resonated with me a lot more. I think and I think there's just more to chew on here in this one. Yeah, I agree.
01:32:07
Speaker
I was very well put. Very well put, Doug. Yeah, I don't know. I just been thinking the more I think about this, the more like I had a set of three point five and I liked it earlier. Now I like now I'm of the Todd Phillips mindset where I just like to spite everyone, all the haters. I'm like, I mean, it is actually I am liking it more the more I talk about. But now I'm like, this is like a four star movie now.
01:32:31
Speaker
I'm I wouldn't go as far as for star. I'm liking it more and more the Number one the substance is actually the worst movie of the year. Yeah, Todd Phillips best director ever Yeah, I'm gonna bring this to more of a juvenile place because earlier we were talking about The Joker and this potentially being like a back door like origin for like a different Joker
01:33:02
Speaker
Have you guys seen the Santa Claus?
Superhero Movie Fatigue
01:33:06
Speaker
Yeah. Tim Allen, Santa Claus? I recently rewatched the trilogy. Is it three movies? And then I didn't watch the new Disney Plus series, but yeah, I've seen them.
01:33:17
Speaker
I'm thinking Todd Phillips could have had this other guy after he stabbed Arthur Fleck, maybe put on his clothes or something, and then he becomes the Joker that way. I feel like that would have been a compelling origin. I think we just see pain growing out of, like how Tim Allen has a Santa Claus beard just like grow out of him, like it just magically... And that's Joker 3.
01:33:41
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's like a body horror movie of this guy like becoming Joker in prison. He should wipe his face, but paint keeps coming back. He's like, no. Yeah, he should have been clay face. He should have been clay face from Cape Crusader, where he's just shifting his face around and he's just like, oh, that's Arthur Flex character and.
01:34:03
Speaker
but it's the joke we're getting a lot of good batman stuff simultaneously like it feels i i like this this uh because like i like you chris i'm pretty tapped out overall of all the superhero fatigue and superhero franchisification of all these connected universes like i was
01:34:23
Speaker
I was kind of like happy when the Snyderverse was ending and it seemed like they didn't have like before the gun announcement and was like oh they're kind of just gonna do individual movies that won't connect you know like Joker has nothing to do with the Batman which has nothing to do with blah blah blah like like just make just make some movies and like say they're elsewhere worlds who cares and they're still gonna do that obviously now uh
01:34:46
Speaker
it's having, but there was a part of it, even though I really like James Gunn and I am curious of what that's gonna look like. I was like, I just don't need another connected universe. Just tell some story. Give me a singular good movie. And then going into whatever his Superman's gonna be called and knowing that it's
01:35:13
Speaker
a jumping off point kind of immediately lessens it for me when it's like, I just want to watch a Superman movie, like just give me a Superman movie. And then later you can start building off of it. But no, there's going to be like all the Justice League and their mom will probably be in a scene or something because I think in this whatever in his continuity
01:35:34
Speaker
All these heroes were here long before super like, you know, Cal shows up to Earth, which is like, I don't hate that as a take, but it's like I don't need to fucking see those guys in the first movie. I don't look I don't. Again, I like. Yeah, I would agree with you that I feel that way. I just want a good story. I don't care where it comes from. Like I am really excited for not the James Gunn universe explicitly. I'm fine with him having a plan ish.
01:36:06
Speaker
I would rather be excited for some experiences rather than a cohesive narrative, but I'm not against a cohesive narrative if you plan it out and it works out and it's good and it's interesting and it goes somewhere that we haven't been in the multiple iterations like trying to get away from source material while taking inspiration from source material and
01:36:29
Speaker
trying to tell your unique story is again like not something that comes easy to anybody handling comic book adaptations marvel or dc but like green lanterns kyle chandler maybe aaron pierre of
01:36:47
Speaker
No, like there's individual things within this that I think could be like I don't want to make it like I love James Gunn like a super is just one of my Favorite I was gonna say period he could bring crimson bolt into the DC you what the fans have been asking for
01:37:04
Speaker
Animal man like literally weirdo characters.
James Gunn's DC Universe Plans
01:37:08
Speaker
I think people well Crimson bolt is from super. Have you seen James Gunn's movie super? Yes, yeah If Crimson bolt made an appearance as like a character, I wouldn't hate that
01:37:23
Speaker
I shut up crime. Yeah, that's good fan service. And then bring Elliott Page back through some kind of like weird comic bookie kind of thing. And she could be working now or he could be working now. Sorry.
01:37:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I just want to because I don't think he's been he was in that Umbrella Academy Netflix show, which lasted longer than I really like the final season like just ended. I was like, I don't have that ended years ago. He just has done that. And I don't think he's really been in any movies.
01:37:58
Speaker
I like whether it's something with with Gunn because he's worked with Gunn before. That'd be cool if you could bring bring him back and stuff. I just want to see Elliot Page and stuff. Good actor. I just watched Juno for the first time. Oh, for the first time, really? Yeah, never seen it. I am behind the the times again, like I said before, maybe before we were recording, like.
01:38:21
Speaker
I suffer from like, I missed a metric ton of movies. And in my teens, I definitely did not go see Juno. I watched Lisa Frankenstein, another Diablo Cody adventure. I thought it was pretty good. I laughed a lot during that. I really want to watch that.
01:38:40
Speaker
I bought it. I haven't gotten to watch it yet. It was a blind buy. It looked like a lot of fun. Just visually, I'm like, this looks like a good time. Yeah, it was a good time. That and Drive Away Dolls. Those two movies came out around the same time. Also good. I didn't get a chance to see them. I don't know why, but I want to watch those. I do. I also want to see Drive... Well, I'm just curious about, specifically, Drive Away Dolls. Since they split up their bunk beds and they went in their...
01:39:09
Speaker
You know, because I still haven't seen Joel Cohen's Macbeth with Denzel. So I want to see individually what's their vibe separately. And I think they are reunited. They pushed the beds back together. I think Francis McDormand was like, you need to get out of the house. No, I don't know what happened. They're doing No Country for Old Men 2. Older men. Yeah. Give it back to the fans. Give Anton Sugar back to the fans. Give him back to the fans. Let's see him get that arm fixed.
01:39:38
Speaker
It's just about the medical care he needs after the end of the there's like no killing it's basically it's like the Joker Folly adieu of No country for old men. They were just like, oh this this legendary killer He's back and he's just like not doing assassin stuff. Yeah, and there's like very dry musical numbers and
01:40:02
Speaker
But the thing because no country has no score so they keep right There's just no music. It's just you just hear the singing. Yeah I I really hope that like James Gunn's like universe for DC doesn't have as many like
01:40:26
Speaker
needle drops. I hope it has a score. I think one of the- It's going to have a lot of needle drops, I think. That's what the theory is because he's James Gunn. He loves needle drops. He has a relatively good taste in music, subjective to everyone. But I think for the most part- Let's get an iconic Superman score. I think that's one of the things that stood out with Man of Steel for all of its
01:40:48
Speaker
No, the zipper score fucks. It's awesome. I don't think you can really argue. Flies? When Henry Cavill flies? Yeah. Oh, that's a great moment. I just re-watched scenes from that. A lot of it is the score. It's swelling, and then you hear fucking Russell Crowe, Joel being like, you can give them something to aspire to.
01:41:11
Speaker
He fucking takes off. It's great. And there's a legacy of Superman movies with great scores. I was just rewatching the first Richard Donner one. I mean, I still love the Christopher Reeves performance in that. And the John Williams score is amazing. But I was like, I forgot. I was like, this movie is so fucking goofy, which is fine. There should be some goofiness and some superhero.
01:41:36
Speaker
things. But in my mind, I was like, Oh, that was when they started like taking superheroes seriously. She's like, No, it's still really campy. And I have hope for that part of James Gunn that I think people
01:41:51
Speaker
latch onto is this it's not just crude humor because he does a lot of crude humor right that's that's a lot of what a Superman fart yeah what if I did he doesn't fart if he doesn't end up in a bathroom taking his shit then he's like don't go in there
01:42:08
Speaker
He just, he torpedoes so hard it goes to the floor. It like shoots out at the other side of the planet. Like it goes, like another- This whole movie becomes a courtroom trial against Superman because he shit too hard and he fell through the apartment building that he's in. That's why he's got to go to this fortress of solitude. That's the reason he goes looking for that place in the first place. It's the only place he can shit without like damaging the planet. They're like, like Batman puts it together that he's Superman because he's like,
01:42:38
Speaker
Followed him home, but like he then like took off and I was like that's weird. He's got a shit some point He's just watching with his little binoculars like I went to his apartment. He's got a fake toilet For water His toilets actually a kryptonite bidet and just shoots into a super bum and then he's like oh now my poo is weaker It's not as
01:43:05
Speaker
strong Kryptonian fibrous as it used to be. I do hope they have a lighter tone to it. I think people have been wanting to get out of the
01:43:19
Speaker
I mean, even Joker, the very sad, dark universe. Ultra self-serious. I think Dunn is good at marrying those two. Because in all his movies, there's sad, tragic stuff that happens, but then they can also be goofy. I'm not afraid to admit, I kind of tear up with some of the father stuff at the end of Guardians 2.
01:43:43
Speaker
There's some really fucked up tragic end of Super. I cried. I didn't like Guardians 3 that much the first time I watched it. I was going through a lot at that time, but I did a rewatch of Guardians Volume 3 a couple months later when I was in a completely different headspace and I was fucking bawling on the couch and I was like, okay, yeah, this movie is really doing something. Something more than most of the other Marvel movies are doing.
01:44:13
Speaker
The Suicide Squad makes you care about fucking Polkadot, man. Like, that's like, that's a... If that's not talent, I don't know what it is. King Shark, you fucking love him. Yeah, no, I love all of them in that movie. And I'm like, even fucking Peacemaker, who's a fucking dunce, like, yeah. Ratcatcher, you like find her sweet and charming. That's the part where I start kind of welling up is when Ratcatchers remember, like, the fucking Taiko Waititi cameo,
01:44:42
Speaker
when he's like, and rats are like the least among us and that's why they're the most valuable. So whatever thing she's remembering about her dead dad who ODed, is that the backstory about the previous rat casualty? Like the drug addict or something? Yeah, so she's remembering her dad in this moat, it's like, damn, this fucking got me. And even when fucking Staro dies, they make you feel bad for him when he was just like,
01:45:07
Speaker
I just wanted to look up at the stars or something. Yeah. He was like, things were better when I was just floating in space, staring at the stars, something like that. Yeah. And it was just like, yeah, I mean, you kind of went and fucked with him. He wasn't bothering anybody. He was forced in this. I mean, the military and the US government are the bad guys in the movie, really. It's like, yeah, Staro just happens to be a result of them fucking around. Yeah.
01:45:33
Speaker
Staro might be one of the more like terrifying superhero villains I think we've gotten at least for me like the little stars latching onto people's faces and then I think they show it like when they detach or when they're ripped off it like the face comes with like It's a very upsetting like thing. It's it's great.
01:45:54
Speaker
Anything where someone's autonomy is taken away, like mind control villains, like what was Tenet called in Jessica Jones, Purple Man or Killgrave. Like like all that. That stuff really is is effective in in in in depicting villains because it's like, yeah, how are you? You're literally your will is taken away. So like, I don't know how what the fuck you're supposed to do, dude. I really. So one of my favorite comics.
01:46:21
Speaker
of DC is written and illustrated by Darwin Cook, who is no longer with us. He passed away with cancer. Rest in peace to that. His art is iconic. I love it. And so Nick, I don't know how familiar you are with New Frontier and Darwin. I'm not familiar at all.
01:46:39
Speaker
So he does a run, like he's prominent comic book artist, he's all over the place, but he does a run called New Frontier and it's adapted into an animated feature. I highly recommend it because I do think it's pretty... Where can I find it?
Recommendation: Justice League New Frontier
01:46:56
Speaker
HBO, Max, whatever it's called now.
01:47:00
Speaker
I don't want a lot of them are are now on Netflix and and probably Amazon. But Justice League New Frontier is a beautiful comic that has an evil baddie that is like
01:47:22
Speaker
seemingly a cult at first. And Batman's doing investigations. Martian Manhunter is doing his investigations because he arrives on Earth and he hides himself as a cop. And the Justice League, this is like post World War II or post World War I. It's set in kind of like 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s. It kind of goes kind of through a different
01:47:50
Speaker
Bunch of errors, but I think it's post World War two But there is this like evil entity that's Going around and as they're investigating like it's this like primordial creature and in the adaptation Keith David voices this creature and if I it okay, so the voice cast for the enemy is is
01:48:19
Speaker
Why am I blanking on his name? RoboCop, Peter. Oh, Peter Weller. Peter Weller is in the Dark Knight Returns animated movie. He was old Batman. Yeah, he's he's.
01:48:33
Speaker
He's Batman in this as well. Oh my gosh. Lucy Lawless is Wonder Woman, who has an incredible scene where she tells Superman to fuck off. But the art style is gorgeous for the comic. I highly recommend the comic.
01:48:51
Speaker
and then the animated feature whatever is your pleasure but i like this the one that came out in 2008 right that's when you're talking about i think so i think that's when i looked up new frontier justice league that's yeah 2008 hour 15 minutes but that not only does that comic and the adaptation give a
01:49:11
Speaker
softer and serious style, where it is meant to be fun. Like, when you meet Hal Jordan, Hal Jordan is that fighter pilot that you really want to root for. He's very much a maverick, like, type of character. Get Tom Cruise. But they're getting Kyle Chandler. I hope he plays old Hal. I do. And I hope there's, like, banter. And I hope there's their seriousness. Okay, but who's Nathan Stillian gonna play?
01:49:39
Speaker
he's no he's playing um yeah he's guy gardener he's an asshole green lantern i can't wait for this portrayal i was like look how they're gonna get my boy nathan inside of this he i mean we know he's gonna be there somewhere but he is playing one of the
01:49:59
Speaker
most asshole space cops and I hope he is in lanterns because like the dynamic that he adds to the the cast like very much if you're looking for a cop that is crooked it's close to crooked in this space cop magic imagination green color all across the rainbow kind of organization
01:50:25
Speaker
That's the guy you want to be that, like, I kind of hate this dude. And I also like he's not so much of an asshole, but he's an asshole. Like, you never you're like, oh, god damn it, you're here. And Lindelof is doing lanterns, right? Yes. Yeah. And again, another team that's been in DC Properties before for the Watchmen series. I think Lindelof did a pretty good.
01:50:51
Speaker
continuation even though I some people have turned on it since like F posted winning a bunch of and I still think it's Pretty solid. I I'm not watching I I think there's like episodes of that that are some of my favorite hours of watching TV great Thought watchman was I thought it was a great adaptation. I um it went in different places
01:51:12
Speaker
But man, it's hard not, so Justice League New Frontier sounds fucking awesome by the way. I think I'm going to watch that in the very near future, especially because it seems like it's super short, it'll probably breeze by.
01:51:28
Speaker
It's hard to not have more excitement for DC than anything Marvel has planned, at least for me. Oh, easily. In terms of Marvel, I'm kind of just curious to watch a train wreck at this point.
01:51:47
Speaker
I because I just feels unsustainable that they're going to crash and burn or that they kind of are starting to like it already just felt so desperate with the Doctor Doom casting. I'm like, OK, I I want to see that just to see how they fuck this up, because I really have not a lot of faith that that's going to be good. Yeah, Francis Ford Coppola to make that Doom movie, they should not have the Russos back.
01:52:15
Speaker
Yeah. Take it out of their hands. Copeless punishment for Megalopolis. They're like, okay. It's doing a Marvel film. We'll get you out of debt. You won't lose all this money on your big swing passion project, but you got to do the next Avengers. Yeah. You're doing the next two Avengers movies, Francis. Sorry.
01:52:38
Speaker
think this is gonna be the infinity war and game back to back like important event that it's they feel like it's gonna be but maybe I'm wrong and everybody's gonna show up and everybody's gonna love it and then they're gonna elect your secret wars president and people showed up to Deadpool you know that movie was shit
01:53:02
Speaker
I think people show up for certain characters or for because that movie was presenting itself that it was going to press all these nostalgia buttons. Like people do, regardless of how the legacy of the specific Fox X-Men movies themselves, people do love Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. I think that's like a good chunk of the box office of that. And I guess Ryan Reynolds movies do make money. Like didn't Free Guy make a lot of money? Like, yeah, I don't know. People go to see him. But did If make a lot of money?
01:53:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah, he wasn't actually don't know if it did. I don't know if if if it did. I
Exploration of Arthur's Relationships
01:53:38
Speaker
don't know. Maybe they should have just made a Foster's Home for imaginary friends. Maybe we can't go down that tangent. Should we do what we say? No, I'm just taking shots at if I don't even know what that movie is or care to know.
01:53:55
Speaker
Um, yeah, who, who cares? Um, but, uh, do you guys want to do final thoughts on folio? Do folio do I was going to make a folio poo joke, but that's what we're strange. Oh, folio, deuce folio. Yeah, folio.
01:54:18
Speaker
No, I don't feel that negatively about it. You guys got any final thoughts? I mean, I like it even more. I was already positive and trying. I was and I was already the more I thought about it kept increasing in my mind. And I do want to rewatch this. And now I just I have an appreciation for this. I'm not and I'm not saying that Todd Phillips is a brilliant guy. Like, I'm probably not going to go back and watch like the other two hangover movies or whatever other comedies of his I haven't.
01:54:47
Speaker
Dude, what's due date, man? It's good. It's kind of a nice hang. I'll call it that. It's a good sit. It's the best movie ever made. Okay. It's the best movie ever made. 10 out of 10 masterpiece. I'm going to have to take a dive into Todd Phillips because I don't think I know. You said he did the hangover too.
01:55:04
Speaker
He did the old Hangover trilogy. He did old school. He did the Ben Stiller Starsky and Hutch. Citizen Kane. Apocalypse Now. 2001, A Space Odyssey. 2001. Yeah. Godfather. Jurassic Park. He did all of them. He did a great job with those. Shout out to Todd. Is he the best filmmaker alive?
01:55:34
Speaker
it could be very well could I mean I know I know for damn sure that he's better than Francis for coal if I'm looking at the output of both oh yeah this is way better than that Megalopolis of these these these all tours who took big swings this year I'm gonna rewatch folly I do I
01:55:55
Speaker
maybe might get screen grabs of certain parts from Megalopolis when it's available, or just get a clip of Jon Voight saying like, you like my boner or something? Like, I might just, I'm not gonna watch the full movie. I'm just gonna like clip out shit like that. Just make it your whole personality. I think that's the right thing to do. I think you shouldn't dress up like Caesar. Start speaking like the movie. Go back to the clip. Yeah.
01:56:20
Speaker
Just talk in ways that don't really accomplish anything. You know, just like talk around points and conversations, tell people they need to have conversations more. Well, and and when there's nothing to fear, because when we have love, you shouldn't ever be afraid if you've ever felt love. How hard is that to get?
01:56:45
Speaker
It's pretty hard for like, final thoughts. It's tougher. It's tougher than you think related to Arthur who has no one who loves that. That's why I mean, it is technically open-ended, but I definitely am leaning towards the, there was no one coming to visit him because who would like Leah decided that she only cared about Joker, not Arthur.
01:57:07
Speaker
I think it was Zazie Beats. I think she changed her mind. She was like, actually kind of into it now. Yeah. And the guy on the witness stand who was deathly afraid of Arthur and was just like, dude, you were so nice to me and then you kill people in front of me and I'm really scared. You know, you've acknowledged it. You took accountability.
01:57:31
Speaker
Do you think? Yeah, no, no, he's proud. Gary Puddles is now proud of Arthur. He's like, actually, you're good now. Do you think like just was like.
01:57:43
Speaker
Your name is Puddles, are you serious? I laughed audibly. I did like that because I was wondering that the whole time, too. And then when he goes back to the bent, you see his notes. It's just Puddles, question mark, underline. Do you guys think that when Todd Phillips is having this actor in this movie,
01:58:06
Speaker
do you think he wants the audience to laugh at him because both movies the audience everybody is
Joker's Cultural Impact
01:58:12
Speaker
like usually laughing I feel like at this person I think people are just assholes I don't know that Todd Phillips is intentionally
01:58:21
Speaker
utilizing him to get the laugh out of, I think it's to draw the connection between Arthur can relate to someone else who's like been othered by society. So I think that was the choice there of like that connection. And then this movie taking that because he did think that there was some kind of brotherhood between them, you know, when he lets Gary go, he's like, you were nice to me. And then on the stand, Arthur can't
01:58:49
Speaker
like put to get like he can't even square the circle of like why would you why would you not like me now I let you go you know I said you were like that like yeah there was you know they did have that connection of they both were you know had been shit on by you know everyone at work and just society as a whole but now they that's gone now you know like you know fucking yeah Arthur you're you're a psychic psychotic murderer like we don't have a friendship now
01:59:19
Speaker
Yeah, I did really find that interaction kind of heartbreaking, but yeah, it's hard to watch that when everybody in the theatre is laughing. Our theatre kind of sucked. Yeah, it did.
01:59:33
Speaker
Like just in general that Marcus, so I feel like we keep calling out this market. I might be done going to that one. Like it's convenient. If it's not for convenience, like if it's a work night and it's like, okay, we got to see this movie because we have a review to do. And I also have to get it in with work. Like those are the circumstances for going there, but like, yeah, you and I very much prefer Crestwood in Ireland usually. Yeah.
02:00:00
Speaker
Honestly at this point I would rather go across the border in Indiana today. I mean, that's not I'm not I'm not yeah, and that's a shooter I'll go cross over orland before that, but you're basically driving into Gotham. Yeah Yeah, basically uh Yeah, don't go to the the Marcus in Chicago Heights bad theater. Anyway, that that's Basically my my thoughts dang well
02:00:28
Speaker
It's been fun. I'm glad we talked about this. I don't have any final thoughts outside of like, you know, teach their own. You want to see it? See it. If you don't.
02:00:35
Speaker
Don't, I don't give a shit. Like do your own thing. I'm not your boss. I had a really good time hearing a lot of positive things about this movie from you guys. Cause it felt good to have this be the first conversation and the first opinions I'm hearing about this movie before. I just have to live with people shitting on it for what I would say are, I think.
02:00:59
Speaker
Maybe the wrong reasons. I don't know people ton of that this I think there's a ton of people deserve to feel bad You know get what they fucking deserve They had romance with this movie someone
02:01:21
Speaker
Disco Heaven, great song. If you're not into disco, I don't suggest it. But if you're into disco, Disco Heaven is a great. Or when he calls her from prison on the on the phone, it was telephone. They do telephone it. Yeah, that would be perfect. Somebody needs to re edit the movie with instead of like their needle drops and they just play gaga songs. I'm going to I'm going to do the gaga cut that that's going to be released to gaga cut.
02:01:50
Speaker
But it has to be a sad version of it, right? It's like that slow piano sting, and it's just like, I've got a bad romance. And he's walking up the stairs to see her, and you're like, oh, that makes sense. That checks out. That scene is heartbreaking. Last thought is that scene where she's like,
02:02:12
Speaker
You're a broken man. Fuck you. And then she's like gone. And then I also the fact that they've taken like those stairs after the movie, people would go there when they visit New York. It was like it became a landmark, basically, those fucking stairs.
Audience Expectations in Adaptations
02:02:28
Speaker
And now this movie's recontextualized it to be so like, no, fuck those. She should have just pushed down the stairs. Can you imagine? She just is like, I don't like you. I never liked you. You're not the.
02:02:39
Speaker
Yeah, your dicks suck and your jokes stink. And then she just, he's so sad and then she just does a 300 kick down the stairs. She does the same kind of kick that he does, like brings his leg all the way the fuck up and then just kicks his ass down the stairs and it's just bad romances. It's just John Wick 4.
02:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, that scene. Anyways, go see it. Or don't. Yeah. Yeah, as someone who didn't love the first Joker movie and was surrounded by people who loved it, people who are mad at what this movie did, you fucking deserve it.
02:03:23
Speaker
You get what you deserve you got your comeuppance and I mean Todd Phillips is giving the fight like like he's not servicing any fan the the fan that he's servicing is is himself and like this is this is an instant of instance of something being self gratifying that I Pretty much support. I'm like, yeah, no you you
02:03:45
Speaker
You go do it, buddy, like, because fuck, fuck everyone else. And in this instance, some some self-satisfying or self-gratifying, masturbatory, overly ambitious movies this year, maybe not so great. No, I'm not going to name any names. Megalopolis. But yeah, so joker, joker, folly addues, better than Megalopolis. Yeah. And I think Megalopolis is better than Deadpool and Wolverine.
02:04:14
Speaker
that's my hot take cold take whatever time I don't think that's that's I think I did I was like shuffling around my ranking for the year it is above Deadpool moverines like at the the bot well not the very bottom I have there's a Lee Daniels Netflix movie called the deliverance not to be confused with deliverance it's just like a possession thing it's really boring so I put that last
02:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, I would put a joke or folly ado above Deadpool and Wolverine. And listeners, if you're mad about that, go fuck yourselves. I mean, remember to rate us five stars, review us five stars. We signed their book. I hope you get cancer. Yeah. I'm just always occasionally hostile to the listeners.
02:05:08
Speaker
Yeah. They love the fucking piggies. They like it. Yeah. You guys like the abuse CEOs out there. This is like a fan base.
02:05:23
Speaker
Looks like a time jump. This is like one of those insult restaurants, you know, when you go there and they like, like talk shit to you when you order. Yeah. Like the Chicago, the wiener circle, the wiener circle. I've been there before, actually. I've been. We're the wiener circle of podcasts. I like that Joker is the wiener circle of DC movies.
02:05:49
Speaker
It is. It is. That's apt. That is an apt description. I mean, it's easily the best comic movie. Well, until Craven comes out, it's the best comic movie this year. Craven, Craven knows in your court.
02:06:05
Speaker
I can't wait to review Craven. That's gonna be a blast. I know, it might be a mess. Only good movie, they delayed it for a full year because they were just like, they had so much good shit they just had to put into the movie. They were like, guys, we just, there's more good shit we thought of.
02:06:26
Speaker
Everything that infinitely gets delayed is you always like new mutants that because it was cooking for so long, it came out perfect, right? We all love new movie. Yeah, that movie was a disaster before it came out.
Excitement for Upcoming Projects
02:06:41
Speaker
You know, they fixed it before they gave it back to the fans. They gave that's when they finally gave X-Men to the fans, actually. Yeah.
02:06:52
Speaker
Well, Chris, you got any plugs? I do not have any plugs, actually. I am pretty off the grid, except for video games, where that's kind of where I live and work. But thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Nick, it was nice getting time to talk to you and Doug, as always. Yeah. I mean, I love having you on, and I think we're definitely going to
02:07:18
Speaker
do some other records or something in the future. I love talking and hanging with you either way, but I think you're a good guest and you have good insight. I think this is just a good dynamic that you bring to this. We want to get you on here some more. No, thanks. I appreciate it. Come back for craving, man. Get hunted with us. Oh, craving. I'm craving. I'm going to be eating craving flavored
02:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna go on a hunt for that one. Dad is gonna. Dad is gonna. I'm excited to come back for that. Yeah, sure. And comic book nonsense.
02:08:02
Speaker
I mean, that's that's the because beyond the things that I think might actually be good. I'm like, OK, a lot of this is obligatory. We have to cover the comic book things, but doing it with you guys makes it me look forward to some of that stuff. You know, like, yeah. Yeah, so I got employed. So where can we find the dog or not? Oh, sorry. Yeah, definitely come back, Chris.
02:08:27
Speaker
The Dugernaut? You can find me. I'm in your walls right now. I'm everywhere. Like a raccoon or a possum.
02:08:36
Speaker
Oh, I was seeing more Scarlett Johansson at the end of Lucy when she finally uses 100% of her brain and she becomes everything. Uh, anyway, check out Lucy is directed by Luke. Uh, no, I, you can find me, uh, at Doug or not underscore to, uh, the show's Twitter at guys got juice. I am starting to do more letterbox stuff. So check me out. Um, the Doug or not on there.
02:09:06
Speaker
You got any politics, Nick? Um, you can follow us on Instagram at these guys got juice pod. Uh, we got a lot of activity going on over there. You can follow me on letterbox at Nicholas Ewers. Remember to rate and review us five stars and we'll read your review on air. And, uh, you can email us below, go to our show notes or it's shum pulp at, uh, these guys got juice.com. I think
02:09:30
Speaker
Write us and tell us why you think that we have the worst taste ever and should never be taken seriously. Just direct all that there. I do have a plug. If you have not seen it, the Lego Batman movie, my wife and I just watched that and she was like, this might be the best DC thing ever made. And I was like,
02:09:51
Speaker
No, no, no. Yeah, it slaps. It's great. I mean, it is unironically one of my favorite depictions of Bruce Wayne. Like, I mean, we're going to definitely talk more Batman stuff in the future, but I do love that take of Batman and that movie overall. And if you're fucking depressed after watching Joker fully ado.
02:10:16
Speaker
Go watch the Lego Batman movie. That's a good double feature. Or read Bat Family. It's a webtoon. There's a lot of good Batman stuff. Absolute Batman is going to get us into darker territory. This is just comic book plugs, comic book related plugs. Absolute Batman, Absolute Wonder Woman, looking cool. The art style looks fucking dope, yeah. Oh, yeah.
02:10:40
Speaker
I don't know, are we doing a regular sign-off on this? We all say goodnight at the same time? Yeah. Yeah, all right, well, I'm Nick Ewers. I'm Doug Davenport. And we're... These guys got juice. Okay, yeah, we're not... Oh, yeah, let's take that again. Sorry, I fucked up. So do you want to just do it? Yeah, uh, okay. Oh, I'll leave all this out.
02:11:08
Speaker
I'm Doug Davenport. I'm Nick Ears. And we're so serious. Let's put a serious on that face.