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160- Should you say how long you've been vegan?
94 Plays13 days ago
Many conversations between vegans, or about veganism, begin with someone stating how long they have been vegan for. But is this a good idea? And when does the vegan clock start...or re-set?! In this episode Julie, Dominic & Ant discuss their approaches to "how long I've been vegan for", as well as the implications of their choices.
As ever, we love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie, Dominic & Anthony
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Transcript
Vegan Stereotypes and Humor
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody! I'm Dominic and I have been vegan for... So think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for! Protein! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere! We're not doing that in the state of Florida! Protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me!
00:00:23
Speaker
Hang on a minute, you always pick
00:00:30
Speaker
of social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you donna get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:46
Speaker
No I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision.
Introduction to Vegan Talk
00:01:11
Speaker
Hello everyone, this is Anthony. Thank you so much for joining us today. This is a vegan talk episode from Enough of the Falafel and we're just delighted that you're here with us. Hello everybody, Julie here. So as Anthony said, this is a vegan talk episode and this is where we pick a topic relating to veganism or animal rights and have a bit more of an in-depth chat about it.
00:01:38
Speaker
There are lots of back numbers. I don't know, what do you call it when it's a podcast? So not back issues like a magazine, but in previous episodes, that'll do ah vegan talk available in your podcast feed. So have a look at some of those.
00:01:56
Speaker
All good, interesting conversations. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed.
Should Vegans Announce Their Duration?
00:02:01
Speaker
So today we are here to discuss whether vegans should introduce themselves with reference to how long they have been vegan for. So it was our our main man, Anthony, who decided on this question. So I'm going to ask Anthony, why have you chosen this to for our question? What's what's the context for today's discussion? Well, we often have on Vegan Talk a listener mailbag show where we read out and discuss emails that have been sent in to us. Very often we're sent questions or conversation topics by you lovely listeners out there. Enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com is how to do so.
00:02:44
Speaker
um And I think almost without exception, every single one person has got in touch and said, hi, love the show. I'm listening from here in the world and I've been vegan for this long.
00:02:56
Speaker
And it just made me think, that's interesting because I'm going to sound so passive aggressive now. That's interesting because I don't remember asking. oh oh ah and And it made me think too, do I do that when I meet people?
00:03:14
Speaker
And there definitely would have been a time when I did. I don't know if I do any anymore. There definitely have been times when I've met people in person and fairly early on when you realize one another is vegan.
00:03:27
Speaker
the question of, oh, how long have you been vegan for is there. But I think it particularly interested me that it happened as part of an introduction in an email. And I've had it as well in at vegan festivals. If there's like a kind of a Q&A or something, you know, someone will stand up and and put their question to the the person on the panel or the guest speaker or whatever and say, hi, I'm i'm Jeff. i've I've been vegan for about 15 years now or for three months now or whatever and it just seems to be part of our rhetoric or am I generalizing I don't know i don't know whether Dominic Julie that's your experience too it's my experience yeah I do say how long I've been vegan I love doing these shows because what has happened on some of our previous podcasts is I've begun with a certain opinion and by the end I'm like oh that's not my opinion anymore
00:04:18
Speaker
And I wonder if that will be the case today. At this moment in time, I am in favour of saying that you've been vegan for X amount of time. And I'll tell you for why. I'll tell you for why. In my current opinion, I don't think there's a bad answer.
00:04:34
Speaker
I think if you're new to it, people will like, oh, brilliant! Brilliant. Well done. That's ace. And if you've been doing it for a long time, then it is inspiring to people who are interested veganism. it's ah Also, it is possible to not be wasting away from lack of protein after over a decade.
00:04:53
Speaker
ah Because I have been vegan for over a decade just to get that information in there, just to make sure everybody knows. Everybody knows. I've been vegan. You know what? Nearly 20 years.
00:05:05
Speaker
now nearly twenty years i've lost track of the excitement number But yeah, coming up to just under two decades.
Personal Vegan Journeys
00:05:13
Speaker
And those you who've heard this podcast before know that my job is I'm a poet. I'm a public speaker. I recite my poetry.
00:05:21
Speaker
And you know what? You know what? Sometimes sometimes poetry can be boring. That's the risk. that's Any public speaking could be boring. And people are nosy. People are nosy. people That's not a judgment.
00:05:33
Speaker
People love knowing stuff. about each other. So I pepper my public speaking with all kinds of like little bits of information. I sometimes ask people, but oh yeah, how old do you think I am? Or, you know, or say about me being vegan, because it's that kind of personal detail. I do believe that through nature or nurture, we are just...
00:05:55
Speaker
nosy creatures and we love knowing little facts like that about each other. I'm always interested and I'm always supportive in whatever answer people give. But what about you, Julie? Would you introduce yourself in in saying like for how long you've been vegan?
00:06:12
Speaker
No, I wouldn't. I do get asked that question but I don't offer that information and when I answer that question without any exception i will give the answer and I will always say I wish that I hadn't wit left it that long.
00:06:35
Speaker
If I had the choice, I would have been vegan from conception. I would like my veganism backdated.
00:06:46
Speaker
great All of the... you know, we were given milk, cow's milk to drink at school and things, you know, and there was quite a lot of the school I went to, there was a lot of pressure, very, very un-PC, lots of really un-PC things happened at the school I went to. It was a Catholic school and to make us eat everything that we were given at lunchtime at school dinners.
00:07:16
Speaker
And I got into lots of trouble. for not wanting to eat animal flesh at dinner time. So yes, I am not proud of how long I've been vegan because I wish I had been vegan much longer than I have been.
00:07:33
Speaker
But I'm certainly not a newbie to it. But I like to have the conversations about being vegan because I am so...
00:07:45
Speaker
invested not people and're not kind of because I didn't do journeys baby steps half-hearted, half-arsed, this or that.
00:07:57
Speaker
It was absolute from the get-go. So I kind of like to have the opportunity to say that because there are people out there, I was speaking with one of them at the week well the weekend before last, who said, oh, you know, she sounded like she was vegan. So I said, oh, are you vegan then? was a bit surprised. went,
00:08:20
Speaker
No, I'm partly, I'm mean, i between mes I have control over what I put in my own body.
00:08:33
Speaker
But if I go to somebody's house and they've cooked something specially, I will just eat it so as not to hurt their feelings. And I don't like food waste and all the rest of it. She says, I don't like to be hard line about anything. I don't think that's a good thing.
00:08:45
Speaker
I said, well, you're plant based then. You're predominantly plant based. You're not vegan. And she said, no, no, no. I think you can be partially vegan. I said, no, you can't. It's a justice movement. It's a moral stance.
00:08:56
Speaker
You can't be. She said, no, no, but I don't want to be hard line and I don't want to hurt people. in that I said, OK, you're not hard line about anything. What if we were talking about child abuse? Is somebody who does that one day a week? is that OK then?
00:09:08
Speaker
If it's just a little bit, is that all right? Are they a child abuser or are they not? And is it OK? Oh, she says, you've got me there. So anyway, yes. It's a good conversation to have with people about when you went vegan because it opens a chat about what actually being vegan is and why you can't be a little bit sometimes or whatever.
00:09:32
Speaker
And to my shame, I sometimes used to compensate for my lack of years of veganism. 2016, folks, by the way, if you really want to know,
00:09:43
Speaker
and Because I would say, well, I went vegetarian as a child, so i've you know most of my life I have never, ever consumed meat. But that's neither here nor there at all. That doesn't let me off the hook in any way. It's it's of no consequence.
00:09:58
Speaker
But in my early days, I probably soothed myself with that thought that for nearly 50 years, I have not consumed animal flesh. And as vegetarians go, I was at the very strict end of that.
00:10:14
Speaker
But I wasn't vegan and I cannot claim that I was. So this is a slightly sort of wider topic than ah whether we should have any remorse for our pre-vegan days. think different people have different levels of sensitivity and shock horror, shock horror that I as a poet, I'm sensitive to everything. If the wind blows in a slightly different direction, i like, oh, I'm so affected by the weather today.
00:10:44
Speaker
So effective. So for me, I've done a lot of self work on not beating myself up. oh so I'm a 46 year old man.
00:10:55
Speaker
And as a lot of men, i did a lot of stuff in my 20s, for which I'm really not proud. Similar to Julie, I happened to go vegetarian when I was a child. I think I was nine I think when I went vegetarian and if I'm listing my many, many, many, many bad things I did in my 20s, I think one of them was my, i had a terrible attitude towards vegan. So I was really like, oh, look at those experiences.
00:11:29
Speaker
extremists, I said, all of those cliche vegetarian things. But I forgive myself. I forgive myself. And I think that all we've got is the present moment. All we've got is the present moment. And, you know, but in acknowledging the present moment, showing that ah a state can be sustainable,
00:11:49
Speaker
is a good thing. So yeah, I think that i think that it is still of use to say i was vegetarian for X years and then vegan for X years.
00:12:03
Speaker
If you're talking to someone whose counter argument has been, mmm, bacon, and you're dealing with that level of insight, then Being like, well, I've been bacon free for so many years might be the starting
Vegan Hierarchy and Labels
00:12:19
Speaker
point.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, i I agree. I mean, spoiler alert, my stance here is is one that actually I don't think there is a particular line we should or shouldn't take.
00:12:31
Speaker
But I think thinking about the... verbal habits that we drift into is a good thing to do because I think there can be ah lots of downsides to always introducing ourselves. Hi, I'm Anthony and I've been vegan for 14 years and blah, blah, blah. There can be downsides to that um very briefly. that doesn't like That's not the ultimate measure of my impact on animals. Yes, I've not been doing certain practices in that time, but that doesn't tell you like How active have I been in trying to promote veganism to others? Have I been campaigning for things? Have I slipped up along the way? but Like it it doesn't tell you anything.
00:13:10
Speaker
it It just tells you when I've decided that I'm going to call myself that. um So it doesn't give you that much information. So there's one thing. I hate hierarchy. I hate power over thing. I hate, you know, the patriarchy and things like that. And I really despise the idea that as a movement,
00:13:27
Speaker
We could be one where we say, well, who's been vegan the longest? Right, you're in charge then whatever. No, no, no. Like we live day by day by our actions and and things like that. And I was I was horrified to find out that Earthling Ed, Ed Winters, vegan activist,
00:13:44
Speaker
went vegan after me. And I kind of saw him doing all these amazing things. And I was like, he's only been vegan four years. What the hell have I been doing? Like, come on. It really like, I was like, God, I need to up my game. um So I sold my house, started a business.
00:13:58
Speaker
um True story for another time. But like, there are so many better ways of us judging. Well, we don't even need to judge, do we? But we certainly don't need to have a hierarchy or a kind of dominant system where it's like, oh, you've been vegan for this long, blah, blah, blah.
00:14:13
Speaker
However, as I think you've alluded to, Dom, like being able to say, look at me, i have been vegan for this long and I'm still upright, breathing, happy, healthy, have got friends, have a job, have a social life, blah, blah. It's possible. It was possible when it was it much harder than it is now, for goodness sake. You know, possible.
00:14:34
Speaker
Isn't that brilliant advocacy? Like in many ways, ourselves, we are the best advocates of a vegan lifestyle because we're here doing it and we're enjoying it and and we're fine. So I'm certainly not saying don't say how long you've been vegan.
00:14:49
Speaker
I'm certainly not saying don't make it your opening line. I think my stance would be maybe it's just... Question these things, question the the words or phrases or or habits we get into, because like Julie, I won't necessarily offer that up as the first thing I say, but I'm certainly not going to shy away from it. And I might and i might bring it up.
00:15:08
Speaker
It's just right time, right place, isn't it? I think would be my broad approach. um I really agree with what you were saying about hierarchy. For ages, I was mocked by a joke that was once on an episode of The Simpsons.
00:15:23
Speaker
I'd previously found ah there was an episode about Lisa Simpson going vegetarian that I was really inspired by. And then there's a later episode. episode where lisa simpson meets someone who's talking about animal rights and she feels really intimidated by how much she respects this man and she goes i'm trying to go vegan and the joke line that the guy says is i'm a level four vegan i don't eat anything that casts a shadow i have that badge it's that guy's face and it says level four vegan it's Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. I had that line quoted to me in a mean-spirited way by so many people. what So you're a level four vegan, are you, Dominic? Level four vegan.
00:16:12
Speaker
And yeah, yeah, that's the thing. That's the thing, the hierarchy. I guess to do a count of... Level five, baby, your...
00:16:23
Speaker
I'm sure, I'm sure. I've got no doubt of you, Julie. No doubt at all. No doubt at all. You're always saying that's your answer to that. Not me. Oh, yeah. That's what you take me back.
00:16:35
Speaker
That's what you say.
00:16:39
Speaker
i guess A counter argument for why it might be good to not say that long term vegans are better. I'm certainly not saying that it's better hu as in. as in some sort of hierarchy.
Celebrity Veganism and Advocacy
00:16:57
Speaker
But I always worry when a celebrity in this age of the influencer suddenly says, I'm vegan and I'm using all my influencing power for veganism.
00:17:09
Speaker
And then they're not vegan. You know, that they're that're they're plant-based. You know, they're they're doing things that... aren't vegan. Hooray that they've got good intent. Hooray that they're on a journey.
00:17:20
Speaker
But one would hope with time comes experience and wisdom. So, yeah, i i if if I see that a celebrity has been v just announced they're vegan this week, I think, oh, but I do give greater weight to somebody who has got more time in just knowing what vegan means just because this person is more popular for reasons got nothing to do with their ethical stance on life or or diet or or anything else um yeah yeah so that that that's a way that it always worries me when i i don't often see it as a cause for celebration when like so and so off off the tiktok goes i'm vegan like oh don't mess it up for us please don't do what harm would be good i think there's something to be said as well for the potential for community that hearing about a long-term vegan can do for you i i can't remember what it was like to go vegan but i can imagine if i was
00:18:30
Speaker
wanting to start a new part of my lifestyle or moving to a new area or whatever, I would be reassured by people who had done that for a long time. if i If I heard people say, oh, I've um've moved here i moved here two weeks ago, or I've been part of this I was saying to Dominic off air, like i've I've started avoiding palm oil at the turn of the year. If I heard someone had also started doing that at the same time, I might be like, oh, great.
00:18:57
Speaker
Well, we can learn at the same time. But I'd much rather hear, oh, someone's been doing that successfully for the last 10 years. That would give me reassurance that it's possible and that that that actually this could be a long-term lifestyle for me and there'll be others doing it for this long with me. I know that's quite a superficial thing.
00:19:17
Speaker
fear-driven thing but we are animals after all I think sometimes we do need a bit of assurance for these things and I think hearing hearing that there are some long-term vegans can give us that. I think that anything we say can potentially come across as boasting or belittling depending on our tone as a writer you look at the written word and it's so interesting how people can interpret the same words on a page differently depending on what they're bringing to it. Like people get a text message and they'll be really angry whereas someone else will be like, but that was really nice wording.
00:19:57
Speaker
So when we speak, when we speak, so much power is put into the way in which those words said. And I think that it is...
00:20:09
Speaker
really important to be precise in our language but celebratory of people whatever stage they're at in veganism so yeah I think it is good if I'm being really honest I think yeah I i have I have boasted i have boasted I have boasted about for how long I've been vegan I think probably as a reaction to the TikTok well I've been vegan for far longer and I have like you know use that as an attempt to grasp the reins of power and have everything directed my way often with good intent but also with a little bit of egoic fueling there so uh yeah like boasting's not good but it doesn't have to be does it doesn't have to be it can be just positive sharing
00:20:58
Speaker
To what extent do we think you need to ah reset the counter if um if you're in a position where, intentionally or otherwise, your actions are not 100% vegan?
Defining Vegan Commitment
00:21:11
Speaker
Well, if it's accidental, that is one thing. But if you have deliberately gone out and troughed a dairy bar, chocolate, whatever the hell, if you've done that, knowing where that comes from and what had to happen for cows and calves for that to be...
00:21:32
Speaker
a thing then you weren't vegan in the first place so your veganism starts from the day that you say to yourself and act upon it i'm not ever going near that yeah but if you ever thought that was okay you were not a vegan and as far as i'm concerned but what if you did think it was okay so so so i i know i'm really tedious with my stupid hypotheticals but like let's let's say you know you you start off your vegan journey in let's say to uh 2005 right and you live for 10 years intending to be vegan i'm not going anywhere near that and then we're human beings and so in 2015 you have a i don't know whether it's a one-off or a week or a month but let's say it's no more than a month
00:22:16
Speaker
where just your brain is just doing something different and you just, for whatever reason, there's a disconnect. And then it starts again. Like what, what do we say then? And I'm going to offer a counter argument to what Julie said. And I do hear what Julie says. And I do, i do hear it.
00:22:35
Speaker
And You know, so therefore I know Julie's stance on a ah guy who I know through the world of poetry, similar to myself. He tours and I was horrified. I was horrified when he came back. His poetry career picked up a lot sooner than mine did. So he was going internationally and I was very jealous because I wasn't being given those opportunities.
00:22:59
Speaker
And he also went vegan before me as well. So I looked up to him. as a vegan and um he just casually said in one conversation was like but i'm not vegan abroad he went be vegetarian but by way it's just too difficult isn't it and i was like too too difficult to buy lentils too difficult he's not vegan he is not vegan Well, so here is here's my counter argument, Julie.
00:23:25
Speaker
As a poet, I'm not going to name names, I'm not going to name and shame, but as a poet... I reckon you've given us enough information, Dominic. I reckon we're... It's true, actually, it would be hard. It would be hard. Let's have a male vegan poet's... I can feel a boycott coming on. Woo! Yeah, yeah.
00:23:46
Speaker
Well, actually, as it happens, he's less active in the poetry world these days. so he's not really a current poet. We're going back some time when he dropped this truth bomb to me, truth bomb.
00:23:57
Speaker
And I thought, well, if he reset the vegan counter, then So here's is what I think. I agree with Julie that that's not vegan, full stop, because vegan is a through line. It's your stance. It's your, you know.
00:24:14
Speaker
But if him saying that he's vegan, even though we can objectively call that a lie, if it inspires other people, because we live in a world where some people are not true. It potentially confuses other people and...
00:24:29
Speaker
actually they'll never know they'll never know he's only doing it in like mexico or everywhere you know they'll never know talking about it here he's talking nobody could be talking about it to other people and you're telling folk on a podcast
00:24:51
Speaker
um
00:24:55
Speaker
I think it is possible because we're talking about words and semantics here, aren't we? And we've we've said on this episode many others that we're fans of precision when it comes to language. And I think it is possible to explain context of something that in that that can be precise with your language, that can that can give details and and and whatever, and and can be honest.
00:25:21
Speaker
And goodness me, like if ah veganism is something that can only happen if you're 100% perfect in life as a human or all of the time, i know i know I can't do it, you know. And I think it's it's possible to to explain that the fundamental definition and philosophy of veganism.
00:25:45
Speaker
and be honest about if if you feel the need to to, to go into the the details and and nuances of that, if if that's appropriate for the context. And also, i think my take would be, like, qui we have to be pragmatic sometimes.
00:26:01
Speaker
So I'm not going to, you know, this hypothetical that I put out there this person that's effectively been vegan for 20 years, but at some point in the midpoint, there was some sort of blip or blur or brain fart or...
00:26:14
Speaker
you know, recidivism for a week or a month or whatever. Like, I wouldn't think that they're and a God awful liar who should be, you know, punished um by saying, yeah, I've been vegan for 20 years.
00:26:27
Speaker
Like that that that there might not be the space in a conversation but to be like, well, technically i was vegan for 10 years and then I had a blah, blah, blah, blah. And it could do more damage than good. So like, you know, am agreeing with Julie. I am agreeing with Julie. So this same poet,
00:26:43
Speaker
me I mean, he got married and he got married and his wife was very, she didn't affect his veganism, but oh my word, did she affect other um moral choices that he made because it was his marriage. And I just thought, ooh,
00:27:04
Speaker
oh, oh, like you were more ethical when you were not married, weren't you? You know, and I'm not married. I'm not married. So I guess, you know, and I often see that as a privilege. Like people could be really like pity me, like, oh, Dominic, one day you'll meet the right person. It's like, or maybe I won't.
00:27:24
Speaker
And I don't mind that. You know, all I want is a joyful existence. And I'm i'm very joyful. You know, I've got so much falafel. it' So much falafel in my life. Maybe that's all I need.
00:27:38
Speaker
And like, I certainly, you know, I'm sure all of us know, like, married couples in that, like, ah till death do us part, begrudging sort of way. so um So, yeah, to link that to Ant's hypothetical analogy, let's say um someone divorced someone because they felt so compromised in their vision.
00:28:01
Speaker
Would it be... Let's say, Julie, let's say that in their heart of hearts, they did think, yeah, you know, ah was so wrong, you know, but they don't go saying that because they want the positives of saying to people, oh, I've been vegan for 20 years or whatnot.
00:28:22
Speaker
ah they Are they should should they, should they just be like, yes, I'll be vegan for two years and and own that? And what should they do, Julie? What should they do? Be honest with themselves and with other people if they have to give that level of detail. But I don't think you do have to.
00:28:39
Speaker
give yourself added credibility by saying how long you've done something. It's not how long you've done something, it's how you've done it. Once you are actually doing it, that's when you're doing it.
00:28:50
Speaker
If you are shilly-shallying about, or if you think that a little bit is okay of animal abuse and buying into animal abuse, in my opinion, you are not fulfilling the definition as...
00:29:04
Speaker
you know, given by Donald Watson. So, you know, chocolate bars are very easy to avoid. Driving cars, maybe not quite so, but things that are not and absolutely necessary for our functioning like chocolate bars, absolutely.
00:29:21
Speaker
So, yeah, you just date it from when it actually properly happened. I do think that we do damage Not just to the animals by supporting industries that exploit and kill them, but to the wording, to the to the people who are really fighting for animals, for for the cause by shilly-shallying about, because you're trivialising abuse and slaughter.
00:29:45
Speaker
it is like saying it is the exact same as saying well oh do you know what i'm really against child abuse but do you know what after 10 years i've decided just to watch a wee video of some children getting totally abused ah but you know that was the end of it and then i had another 10 years you know i mean you that's just it's we wouldn't think that's okay so why is it okay to buy i agree with you in in principle and in words and in a kind of sanitized philosophical container.
00:30:16
Speaker
I think where i where I would disagree is that we don't live in a world where child abuse is normalized. And I think that therefore I would argue I don't really understand what leads people to abuse children but I would imagine you've got to be wanting to do it quite a lot to to seek it out and do it whereas I i think the the pressures to consume animal products are far stronger than the pressures for for people to abuse children but I agree with you semantically and philosophically and I do agree that every time you do it every time
00:30:54
Speaker
You do something that's not and not vegan, an animal has suffered in order for that to happen. And we can't get away from that. We shouldn't get away from that. um But i I do think some some compassion and understanding of context. Well, there's definitely compassion and understanding, but you don't you don't then fudge the issue by saying, oh, yeah, I was vegan for 20 years. If you weren't, I think that's the thing.
00:31:18
Speaker
there's There's a wonderful poet, different poet, different poet. There's a wonderful poet who's got this glorious poem about how um the cells, the atoms in our bodies, you know, they live and die. And I think over a course of a seven year period,
00:31:36
Speaker
There's not a single bit of our body that's the same as it was seven years over that course. You know, so much has come and gone during that time. We're different. So I know that I try to not eat in omnivorous restaurants.
00:31:53
Speaker
And i was chatting to Antoff Air about that. And there have been times on my vegan journey where I've been fed meat and I've eaten meat in ignorance, in ignorance, you know, I've been served up the wrong meal and had like, I'm talking like one forkful and had that horrible sort of realisation.
00:32:14
Speaker
And I worked so hard as a sensitive person to try and be resilient and to not come across as a big, socky, wet blanket. But I have cried. i have literally vomited. Going back to that poet example of like, oh, seven years, your entire body changes. I can remember being vegan for seven years and thinking, you know, I've not been near anything that's anything do with an animal for seven years what a good thing and really feeling in that moment that that that was undone and yeah it was only like one mouthful but a mouthful that I'd swallowed and then involuntary like I was so upset the emotions I I did actually you know end up going to the bathroom and like being sick because I was like so upset and crying and uh yeah that's happened on two occasions through that through that thing and uh yeah that's uh i'm sure there are plenty of vegans who relate to that what i try and do now is wherever i'm given the option you know i i just don't even go to places that have a vegan option yeah i do eat out a lot at work and usually traveling there are places
00:33:27
Speaker
But again, like sometimes, you know, with the nature of work or whatnot, I do go to places and I'm always was saying to Ant, if there's something that could be mistaken, like let's say there's a vegetable samosa and a meat samosa. I just won't have samosas.
00:33:43
Speaker
I just won't have them. I just think I will only have something like falafel, for example, that clearly is falafel. Oh, it's unpleasant.
00:33:55
Speaker
It's unpleasant. Isn't it unpleasant, Julie? I don't know. I've never been in that situation, but I think instinctively i just avoid anything.
Conscious Vegan Choices
00:34:05
Speaker
that looks like meat at all or animal abuse substances at all so that there can't be confusion. I'd like to, my my last little bit here because I know we're about to finish off, I just want to put out there that we can't know for sure what paths lead to the best outcomes for animals now and in the future.
00:34:30
Speaker
We're just speculating as vegans and we could have a stance that says, you know what, broad church, you know, you can flexitarian, like everyone goes flexitarian, then that'll make, you know, that'll get us there quicker.
00:34:42
Speaker
um If we welcome people who occasionally eat non-vegan birthday cake, that'll get us there quicker. Or let's be completely hardline about things. that'll get us there quicker. And we started off this conversation by saying, like, should we say how long we've been vegan for?
00:34:55
Speaker
It's like a way of an introduction. We don't know. Like, we don't know what's actually going to be the best outcome for the animals. i And that's what this is all about. um So I think my kind of think message that I would personally like ah listeners to take away would be just like occasionally just reflect on what you're doing, what you're saying, how you're going about things because none of us know.
00:35:20
Speaker
We're just trying our best and if you just reflect and question things from time to time, I think you're more likely to to get to a place where you're you're being true to yourself and you're probably being closer to what works and for for the for the animals as well as yourself. here you i know i know the gentle but huge power of being a really pleasant person, not at all abrasive, and being offered...
00:35:49
Speaker
um you know, a hot drink and like, oh, do you have milk? And just being like, well, no, no, I don't, I don't drink milk, you know? and And that doesn't have to be like, you know, like, it's such a a such a positive thing. It doesn't have to come across as a, ah so you know, there are definitely times to choose to be abrasive. There is power in anger. There is power in activism of course there is of course there is. But I think for a lot of people, there they're really fearful of how they come across.
00:36:20
Speaker
And it could be it could be joyful. It could be really, really joyful, really joyful in being like, oh I'm not having that. And yeah, that doesn't have to tie into, and I've not done this for 18 years, just in this moment, because from a spiritual perspective, one could argue that all we have is the present moment. All we have so does it matter does it matter but if I'm saying here in this moment, like, oh, no, i'm I'm going to choose to not do this. We condition so much into misusing the word need i need this. i need thou oh i can't function without
00:36:56
Speaker
my coffee in the morning I need a coffee you know like well what's that word need mean what what will the consequence I mean I'm not saying the coffee is or isn't vegan I was just using that as a example of something that people go like I need that I need my bacon I need my eggs or whatnot and uh yeah in that present moment in that present moment being I think I have slightly changed my stance during this as as i thought i may I think it is maybe more important because the world is so full of armchair philosophers who like talk about, um, like, I mean, I've been there as well. I've been there. I've been there in my poetry sessions.
00:37:38
Speaker
I'm really painting poets in a poor light here. They all sound like absolute eejits. But I have been with poets who are like, yeah, yeah, veganism. Yeah, it's really good yeah i really port fee that's ah that's a rubbish phrase isn't it i support veganism i support veganism And I've been like, oh, great. You know, like, so you are vegan.
00:37:58
Speaker
Oh, no. I mean, like the idea of veganism. It's like, what? What? I mean, that moment. in that moment be like this is what I am doing now.
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's a powerful thing. And it's to each present moment being the most compassionate, the vegan moment. Yeah, here's to that. Here's to that.
Engaging the Vegan Community
00:38:21
Speaker
Well, thank you, everyone, for listening.
00:38:23
Speaker
We all really hope you've enjoyed the show. And if you have enjoyed the show, you could certainly do us a very small favour. If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too.
00:38:42
Speaker
We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
00:38:58
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help. Thank you so much, Julie.
00:39:11
Speaker
Thank you so much, Ant. and thank you all of our listeners. ah Cheers for listening. We also love hearing from you. So if you fancy emailing us, enough of the philip.
00:39:25
Speaker
is our address or one word enough of the fafel gmail.com and if you'd like to join us for the next of the enough of the falafel episodes and the next one's coming out on Monday the 7th of April it features Mark, Alina and Anthony and it's a vegan week umps episode so that's our usual weekly roundup of the latest vegan and animal rights news
00:39:57
Speaker
Anyway, that is enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you, Julie. Thank you, Dominic, for all that you've brought today. Thank you, everyone listening. I've been Anthony and you've been listening to Vegan Talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:40:15
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:40:30
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening, and see you next time.
00:40:56
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:41:17
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:41:32
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.