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162- Is your bank account (or pension) suitable for vegans?
82 Plays7 days ago
Just when you think you've got the whole 'vegan thing' nailed...
Banks and pension providers lend our money to all manner of companies, causes & governments...so how to we make sure we're not indirectly funding animal exploitation, wars and all manner of horrible things? In this episode Richard, Dominic & Anthony discuss the options and their own personal responses to the ethical blindspot that are banks and pensions.
During this show we reference two webpages:
https://greenecofriend.co.uk/ethical-banks-uk/
https://makemymoneymatter.co.uk/pensions/
As ever, we love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Dominic, Richard & Anthony
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Transcript
Introduction and Participants
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody. Now, how vegan is your bank account? And while we're on the subject, how vegan is your pension? I am Anthony for this episode of Vegan Talk.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm also joined by Richard and Dominic.
00:00:15
Speaker
I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Take your lab grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. about protein and what about your iron
Veganism and Personal Finance
00:00:29
Speaker
levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry. in They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick the
00:00:42
Speaker
social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:54
Speaker
No I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello everyone I'm Richard. Welcome to this episode of Vegan Talk.
00:01:08
Speaker
Thanks for being here again and I hope you really enjoy the show. Hello, hello, hello, hello. My name is Dominic. If you've not listened before, Vegan Talk and Vegan Week are two different types of Enough of the Falafel podcasts that we do.
00:01:26
Speaker
We're here for the talky one here, the talky one. Now, all the previous episodes of Vegan Talk are also available in folks' podcast feed.
00:01:36
Speaker
Indeed, some excellent evergreen content as they call it there, stuff that more or less doesn't go out of date. We'd encourage you to go back and listen to those that you haven't done already. As we know, a lot of you do during the week.
Understanding Savings and Pensions
00:01:49
Speaker
Today, however, we are here To discuss your finances, let's make it sound really serious. Basically, we're looking at to what extent we can all make animal rights influenced choices with regards to our banking and our pensions. Now, Richard, this is not the sort of stuff what is taught in schools like.
00:02:09
Speaker
So it might be that folk don't really know what's Well, how can our banking choices and how can our pension choices have anything to do with animal rights, to do with compassion, to do with ethics?
00:02:26
Speaker
Would you be able to gem us up to speed as to how those things can have anything to do with animal rights or compassionate choices?
00:02:38
Speaker
First of all, let me start saying that this is not financial advice. i We are just discussing what are the implications of a pension scheme, bank choices and how you manage your finances. But in no case, this is any sort of financial advice.
00:02:58
Speaker
Okay, let's start by saying we need to understand that when we put money into a bank as a savings deposit, or when we contribute to our pension scheme, that money is not sitting idle waiting for us to collect it.
00:03:16
Speaker
I think that's the first thing we need to
Banks, Lending, and Vegan Ethics
00:03:18
Speaker
understand. That money is loaned in the case of saving accounts to other the people that want a loan. In many cases, that could be banks lending your money saved in the bank account to companies so they can invest in their operations, expansions, or surviving through whatever crisis they have.
00:03:44
Speaker
So so i'm just goingnna I'm just going to be the stupid one that's checking things all the way through here, Richard. So basically what you're saying is when we put our money in those things, what we're doing is we're giving the bank our money.
00:03:55
Speaker
And until we take that money back, the bank is giving that money to people who need a loan. Yes, that's basically they only need to keep a fraction of what you put in. That's how money is created, right?
00:04:06
Speaker
So when you put £1,000 into a saving deposit, they can lend out... a multiple of that money, they only might need to keep £100 of real assets and, you know, are saved against your savings, even though you have the £1,000.
Pension Investments and Ethics
00:04:30
Speaker
So you always have access to your £1,000, but they only need to keep £100 as a guarantee that you have that money and they can lend the rest out.
00:04:42
Speaker
right That's how the banking system works. Pension schemes work in a different way. Pension schemes, you contribute every month, usually through your employer, because I'm assuming most people will be employed through an employer,
00:04:57
Speaker
which probably they make a 4% contribution, maybe matched by a 4% contribution from the employer. Now, that money goes to a company that manage your pet manages your pension.
00:05:11
Speaker
You'll see usually you'll get statements either monthly or yearly. how your portfolio is going. A portfolio is the sum of all the money you've put and how it's allocated.
00:05:27
Speaker
And this is important. So say throughout the last five years you've been putting money into your pension scheme, the company that receives your pension needs to think, okay, now I've got this money and I need to make it grow.
00:05:42
Speaker
What should I do? So what that company does is invests your money into stocks and shares and bonds. Bonds are usually issued by the government. It's why the UK, for example, when they say, we're scared now because of we've got 100% of GDP in debt.
00:06:04
Speaker
Okay, let me say it in a plain English way. A bond is money that the government issues to raise money for the country but needs to pay an interest on the holder.
00:06:18
Speaker
Many bonds are holding pension schemes because they're seen as safe assets. Stocks and shares are more volatile. You might have seen Tesla. It's gone up by a lot.
00:06:29
Speaker
It's gone down by a lot. You might put money into a company. it could skyrocket. It could go down to zero. no Thanks for letting me explain that.
00:06:40
Speaker
Now, what's the issue with that? You never know,
Personal Vegan Finance Stories
00:06:44
Speaker
unless you're actively managing your pension, where that money is going. So you might be living completely vegan life.
00:06:54
Speaker
You're putting money to your pension scheme. That money, more likely than not, is going to McDonald's, is going to companies. I don't want to name any company, by the way, apart from the one I have.
00:07:09
Speaker
going to say, bit late for that, Rich. A bit late for that. Anyway, you are putting your money on defense. That means in the creation of weapons, you're putting money into McDonald's, other types of animal exploiting companies.
00:07:28
Speaker
You're putting money into a tobacco companies. So it's very difficult, if not impossible at the moment, to have a clean pension.
00:07:40
Speaker
That's in a nutshell. Thanks, Rich. That's really, really helpful as like a background for this conversation. Dominic, I think probably the first question to ask in response to this is, as as someone who's been vegan for a long time, has that been something that has been at the forefront of your mind? Because I know, like, ah you know, to to relate to our last vegan talk episode, I've been vegan for 14 years, don't you know? And it's not something that I've ever really thought about. Like, what about you?
00:08:10
Speaker
It's not something that I've thought about. I'm really interested being on this show. I often come on this show thinking I'm really up for my opinion being changed by the end of this.
00:08:22
Speaker
episode I often think that, and that's the case here. and Ant often says we're a collective of regular folks. You know, some of us might know more about one thing than the other, and, you know, that varies person person. But by and large, we're just, we're a bunch of regular guys.
00:08:39
Speaker
and I know, I have been vegan for a very long time, and ah this can sound like I'm responding really defensively. to to that Is your bank vegan? No, it isn't.
00:08:53
Speaker
No, it isn't. I went 20 years ago when I first started looking into veganism, and my my mental health was really poor, as is really understandable for anyone looking into what happens in our world, the things that some living beings suffer. So I i became agoraphobic. I've talked about it on previous shows. i completely ah stopped engaging with a lot of stuff because I just couldn't cope with how horrible it was.
00:09:22
Speaker
And to all our listeners choosing to tune in, what a wonderful thing that you're at a point where you can engage with this kind of conversation.
Ethical Banking Challenges
00:09:30
Speaker
No disrespect to people who couldn't.
00:09:32
Speaker
We find our way to navigate the world. And the way I got out of that agoraphobia... was to kind of think when I'm at home, I can be fully vegan.
00:09:45
Speaker
When I'm in a shop, I can buy something vegan. there There might be things where I'm i'm out, where where it's just outside of my control. Now, that feels like a real, like, you know, get out of jail free kind of thing. Oh, not to my concern.
00:10:01
Speaker
And I'm not saying... Well, actually, i am I am saying that at the start of this episode, that's kind of my position, that my presumption to answer your original question is there's not really been much I can i could do about it.
00:10:15
Speaker
I'll also add... very briefly before I waffle on too much, that I don't have a pension. So I'm a freelancer and a lot of freelancers like don't invest in a pension. That's not from some ethical high ground. It's because I'm poor. It's because I'm poor. You and I, but my plan is to like write poetry forever, to never retire, to just be like, you know, I know 80 year old poets. I know 90 year old poets. I feel great privilege that I'm a poet.
00:10:50
Speaker
um And yeah, like who knows, who knows like ah where the future will be. So I don't invest in private ah pension schemes.
00:11:01
Speaker
I do have a bank account. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. eke yeah I don't trust that bank at all. I put them in the category of I'm sure they're all horrible. That's my presumption.
00:11:15
Speaker
And I kind of had made peace of that. Like, but, but, you know, maybe there is something I might change about my choices as a result of this show. Yeah, well, I mean, that you've you've touched on there, Dominic, and thank you for your authentic response there. You've touched on the fact that very often we can feel powerless.
00:11:35
Speaker
We're not sure how to go about these things. Just for context, like when when I was leaving university and starting a proper big boy grown-up bank account...
00:11:46
Speaker
I did make a choice to bank with the co-op because I had heard that they were more ethical. i had no idea whether they were or not. I just heard it. I've heard lots of things since that put me off the cooperative, to to be honest.
00:11:59
Speaker
um But I thought, well, that's the best choice. But also, like later in life, when I started a business, my accountant said, well, I'm trying to find pension providers for for your employees that that are ethical and might be aligned with your animal rights standpoint. And to be honest, I'm drawing blanks. I don't know what to do. So it's very
Ethical Investments and Companies
00:12:20
Speaker
much a case of like, well, what can we do?
00:12:22
Speaker
Where can we go with these things? Richard, what what do we know thus far? what What resources do we have out there to help us try and make informed more ethical choices, more perhaps choices that might improve outcomes for animals or certainly not be as detrimental for animals. What what choices Are there out there for us at the moment that we know about?
00:12:49
Speaker
Some companies, um sometimes having a pension from an activist point of view can be the elephant in the room, right? So because it's, to the best of my knowledge, impossible at the moment to have a vegan pension fund, we can see things in another way.
00:13:07
Speaker
And we can see as there's companies like BlackRock, that are really huge now and they manage trillions of dollars.
00:13:18
Speaker
I'm not saying put your money in BlackRock. I'm just giving it as an example. Now, these companies have and increases an increase in decision-making in these companies.
00:13:32
Speaker
It's what's called the ESG, which means basically they want to see companies comply with a certain... regulations and they want to know what they're going to do in the future for climate change.
00:13:48
Speaker
Now, for many people, climate change and veganism are two different things. Let me say that. I know the impact of animal agriculture, but the main wisdom is that carbon emissions are mainly due to transportation, are mainly due to CO2 emissions outside animals and methane.
00:14:10
Speaker
Okay, I don't want to go on a tangent. Anyway, by having a pension scheme and trying to choose ones that promise to do ethical investments, you are building...
00:14:23
Speaker
your share of ownership in some companies with the hope that these fund managers will say, we're having an increase in people that invest in us because they're looking to invest in ethical ventures.
00:14:41
Speaker
Now, we'll move away from those that we know they aren't and we'll try to nudge those that we are investing in to move to more sustainable choices.
00:14:56
Speaker
And therefore, what you should do is check who's you provider who your provider is, contact them, see what options they offer, and they will give you answers in terms of how you should them how you can
Financial Struggles and Ethics
00:15:10
Speaker
invest your money should you choose to do so. Yeah. I mean, I've got a page up here online that we will include in the show notes from an organisation called makemymoneymatter.co.uk. And they they've got a graphic here on the screen the that takes ah common pension providers and it sort of ranks them according to how they rate on this scale, depending on
00:15:37
Speaker
yeah, companies that they are investing in. So you can say, well, actually, which company, at which pension company, rather, is doing the best in terms of trying to avoid investing in fossil fuels?
00:15:51
Speaker
um On one of the news shows a couple of weeks ago, we spoke about um deforestation and the fact that, you know, some of the Amazon is being felled to make make space for a road, um irony of ironies, towards a climate.
00:16:07
Speaker
ah conference, you can look and see, well, actually, ah Scottish Widows has got the lowest rating here with regards to deforestation and land use, i.e.
00:16:18
Speaker
that they don't seem to be holding back from investing in companies that that are involved in deforestation and land use. So we have we have power to kind of make an informed choice.
00:16:31
Speaker
But it sounds like from what you're saying, there's not a completely fail-safe vegan way. we we We can't say, well, none of my pension investment is going on things that prop up animal agriculture. That's that's not something that seems to be possible at the moment.
00:16:47
Speaker
To the best of my knowledge, no. But things change fast. I mean, when whenever you guys want, we start one, okay? vegan pension fund. To the best of my knowledge, no.
00:17:00
Speaker
Most use tracker funds, which means they just buy ah proportion of shares of the S&P 500, the London Stock Exchange. Others are more active managers and will choose to invest in things that they believe are more sustainable.
00:17:15
Speaker
I don't think you have the option of being 100% vegan now. Dominic, I, like I say, I've, for a long period, I banked with the co-op because I felt that, or I was just told that they were more ethical than most of the other high street banks.
00:17:31
Speaker
A difficulty I found was that actually the functionality of pretty much everything they did was was way worse than any other bank. And and it was it was really difficult to access things. There often wasn't a branch that you could go into in person and things like I will also say, so let's name and shame the co-op, name and shame the co-op.
00:17:54
Speaker
um Like i I mentioned before, you know, I'm from a yeah a single parent family. i you know, really, really, there was a lot of tough times growing up.
00:18:06
Speaker
And I thought I might... be able to go to university. Ultimately, I didn't. And the co-op turned me down for a bank account. So similar to you, Anne, I'd heard they were a more ethical one.
00:18:19
Speaker
And since then, as a guy my 40s, I've had my um autism diagnosis, which makes sense of so many outbursts I've had in the past that are quite not unusual for an
Practicalities and Greenwashing
00:18:33
Speaker
autistic person. so And I had an autistic outburst at the poor, poor, poor individual working for the car, who I, as an 80-year-old, held wholly responsible for turning down.
00:18:45
Speaker
was like, you're meant to be the ethical one, and you're saying that I can't open an account because of my background, because they just did a credit check, and they were like, you don't worry. And it was really hard. I actually didn't get ah anyone offering me... a uh uh student grant like uh so it was it was hard it was hard sort of finding bank accounts it was it was it was hard it wasn't an effortless thing for me so uh yeah yeah absolutely i mean i guess we have to we have to weigh in the pragmatics and and practicalities of these things
00:19:30
Speaker
don't we i mean again if i can if i can use you dominic as the uh as the as the lay person ah only because it feels a bit weird asking myself a question you you could ask me and i you know i'm and experience with this thing know so just as well just as well if you've so tridos bank again often cited as a ah really great you know, ethical alternative to the sort of modern high street big ones.
00:20:00
Speaker
They say about themselves that they publish details of every organisation they finance on their website so you can see for yourself how your money is being invested. They phrase it positively and say, see how your money is delivered delivering positive change for people and planet.
00:20:16
Speaker
Does that sort of thing appeal to you that like you can see where at least your money is going when it's sat in your bank account? We were doing one of our previous podcasts where we were talking about how often people are like really busy and they don't necessarily ah have the time to make money.
00:20:33
Speaker
good choices and that's why things that such as putting vegan options first on a list are a really good thing to do, really good thing to do. My heart does not sing at the thought of, oh wow, I'd love to read through all of the policies and procedures of a bank, especially given that greenwashing is such a thing, such a thing.
00:20:59
Speaker
So i'll I'll name my bank. My bank happens to be Lloyds Bank. And I do remember there being a controversy quite recently that Lloyds Bank did. um I mean, it happens all the time, like banks being pulled into check for doing their greenwashing malarkey. But yeah, they they were like, oh, look at us. We've invested in someone who does like...
00:21:21
Speaker
recycled, i think it was like packaging from sea wing or something. And, you know, this whole thing of only telling part of the story, like giving this one tiny aspect of what the bank are involved with as summing up the whole organisation.
Economic Policy and Veganism
00:21:37
Speaker
Let's just not talk about 90% of what we do. let's just Let's just focus on this bit. This is the good bit.
00:21:44
Speaker
So, um yeah, i think I think that I would be hesitant to even try to read, a bank and look at all the good things we do because I just I would come from the default position oh but I don't believe you ah don't believe you that would be my default yeah Richard you're putting a lot of your time into learning more about money and and the the ways of business and and the way that finance goes on you are also an incredibly dedicated passionate vegan someone who's inspired me for a long time
00:22:19
Speaker
what How do you marry these two things up? What practical courses of action do you take? Or could you imagine yourself taking if you were in a different circumstance, but the same knowledge and the same ethics?
00:22:33
Speaker
So I see the two things as very, very related. It might be a bit silly what I'm going to say, but what happens in animal agriculture is great inequality between the ones that decide how other people's other animals live and economic inequality, which is where some people have a lot and others do not make ends meet.
00:22:58
Speaker
And I think by understanding the economy, understanding how policies can shape the way people do things, it's a way of helping animals for the future.
00:23:12
Speaker
Because obviously animals will no longer be used as property and objects or products once they're no longer economically viable. Or at least that's one of the options that could happen. I think because I think veganism is such a complex matter.
00:23:29
Speaker
There's a way of saying things in Spain that it's um the onion has layers and layers. Well, when you tap into veganism and you see how many things are involved and need to change to make the world vegan, you realize how big the onion is and how many layers you need to unravel to get there.
00:23:50
Speaker
And I think the fact that... Let me explain this just in a very quick way, okay? Just one minute. We humans believe we owe everything.
00:24:01
Speaker
And when we see a to the rainforest in the Amazon, when we see Southeast Asia, forest, whatever, automatically we we believe that's ours.
00:24:13
Speaker
And we sell land, we buy land. And those, we call that assets. And those assets do not belong to us. But we currently use them as assets. We use animals, the land, everything as assets. So I think from an economic point of view, once we realize that by consuming those assets, we are endangering our future and the animals, there might be a change
Consumer Behavior and Market Influence
00:24:40
Speaker
in policy. And understanding how policies can shape consumer behavior could be you know could help change things. That's how I see it.
00:24:49
Speaker
it's I think it's one of the brilliant things of veganism is that we can feel like we have agency, we can feel like we can have control. And of course, if we drill down into it, we could say, well, have we saved that animal? Have we saved those those animals? Like if you follow the chain, there could be an argument that say, well, we're not making a difference, but it can really feel like we are because there is a tangible choice that is happening.
00:25:16
Speaker
three times a day or however many how many times you uh find an excuse to put food in your mouth i certainly do it more than three times a day but like yeah it's a conscious choice and we're consciously choosing it and we're saying no i'm not going to do that i am going to do this and that feels really empowering and what can be difficult about the world of money the world of investment, the world of future financial planning, is it can feel like we don't have a choice. which you know like As you've said, Dominic, we can very understandably not believe any of the rhetoric coming from any of the banks that we could choose or things like that.
00:25:56
Speaker
And that that's really difficult, isn't it I mean, also, for fear of going off topic, we did a previous show many many, many, many, many moons ago on notes, on animal products in notes.
00:26:11
Speaker
And I believe what I learned from there is that it's ah it's a tiny percentage of... But it's still not vegan, is it? Notes are not vegan. You know, £5 notes. Bank notes. Bank notes are not vegan. So I am really aware of people who campaign to boycott everything being through your debit card because they say this is really unethical. Banks can keep a track on you so easily. With cash, you are less traceable. And also with cash, you're giving 100% of that money to that person. People aren't taking a cut.
00:26:48
Speaker
And I hear that argument, but from a vegan perspective, I did for a very short length of time boycott cash. I thought, well, this doesn't feel like too big a sacrifice for me because i don't use much cash anyway.
00:27:04
Speaker
But then it did become a thing again as a as a business this person saying to one. Oh, no, I don't take cash. I know plenty of businesses. do Don't do that. So that is a category in which I've put under the, you know, heading of stuff I don't feel I can control.
00:27:23
Speaker
You know that I do live in a world where I do use my card and I do. handle banknotes, which, you know, i don't like. so So, yeah, you know, again, you know, do what I can.
00:27:36
Speaker
i don't know. What do you think, Richard? Have I gone a bit off topic talking about banknotes? but No, I think yeah what you've said is so interesting because how do you change the system if you don't play by the rules and from the start?
00:27:52
Speaker
I mean, if you have you don't use cash, you opt not to use any of the things that can potentially be a tool for you to help you in the future to change things.
00:28:04
Speaker
At the end of the day, what is the maximum reach you can have? And if you decide to go and live in the forest with no contact with anyone, never talking anyone, how are you going to change anyone? How are you going to convince someone that maybe there's a better way of doing things? So I'm not saying we should compromise on core beliefs, you know.
00:28:27
Speaker
But I'm saying, should I choose to refuse all that at the expense of maybe shorter gain that I can make an impact to the people? think that is an interesting point. I mean, the um controversial singer Morrissey, who certainly said a whole lot lot of political views, which I loathe, you know, there's a lot to that I dislike about Morrissey. But, you know, Morrissey...
00:28:56
Speaker
a while ago said, I won't perform in venues that aren't fully vegan venues. Now I'm a public speaker. I'm a poet. I'm nowhere near as successful as Morrissey.
00:29:08
Speaker
And I thought, yeah, yet thank you, Richard. I thought, should I? i thought, am i betraying my vegan beliefs by fighting? Should i be, should I have this absolute stance? You know what? You could be only selling vegan food. You could be doing that. So in this case, I'm not going to perform.
00:29:29
Speaker
And I thought exactly what you said, Richard. I thought, well, you know, not to over, over, ah you know, inflate my own ego, but Like, you know, I know that people do talk to me about my vegan poetry. Every set of poems I say, will say that I'm vegan. I'll perform at least one poem about being vegan. And people come up to me afterwards and talk about being vegan. And if i boycotted vegan venues, if I boycotted taking in their notes with animal products within those banknotes to sell them my book with vegan versing, then then, yeah, you know, it's it's.
00:30:04
Speaker
we yeah We just have to navigate the world as best we can, don't
Listener Feedback and Ethical Questions
00:30:08
Speaker
we? But also, got to use that as a get out of jail free card for never challenging ourselves. As I said earlier, we are a collective of, of you know, we're we're just regular people. We're not saying like, oh, we are the experts. Listen up!
00:30:23
Speaker
podcast listeners because we will tell you what to do. We're not we' just chatting about things and I've listened to the wonderful fellow of contributors and I've had my views and my actions changed as a result of tuning into these podcasts. So, you know, i think all of us listen to each other. And that's the beautiful thing about vegan community to whilst accepting that we can't just wave a magic wand and turn the whole world vegan now, we can't do that.
00:30:55
Speaker
But there are some things that we think we can't change. so Actually, we can actually be can and hearing the positive life experiences of other folks can be really, really a brilliant thing.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah. And there's, there's what I'm taking from this conversation is there's many angles that we can take on this and there's many approaches that we can take and they can be reflective of how we feel and how we feel that we need to feel. So if, if, if we really need to feel like we have to, if we drill down into, you know, what, what is our bank account funding?
00:31:33
Speaker
What is our pension being invested in? If that feels really imminently, really important, then that's the thing that I need to get right. And I won't be able to look at myself in the mirror unless I know I've done everything I can to make that aligned with my morals as best as I can.
00:31:48
Speaker
There are ways that we can do that. I've got in front of me at the moment, again, I'll put the link in the show notes, an article on greenecofriend.co.uk listing the quote unquote ethical banks in the UK.
00:32:01
Speaker
And there's a thing about the the so-called charity bank and what they say about themselves. They're a savings and loans bank with a mission to use money for good. We use the money our savers entrust to us to make loans to charities, social enterprises and organisations with charitable purposes.
00:32:17
Speaker
That sounds fantastic. Like if if I want to have a savings account, that feels like a tangible thing that I can do something about. And equally, we might feel like, well, do you know what? I feel sceptical about this. i'm not I'm not sure that that's actually how I'm going to feel the validation and feel the alignment that I need.
00:32:37
Speaker
There are other ways of going about it too, aren't there, that that kind of tick the boxes for us and... that's you've kind of got to follow that haven't you i think the fear of repeating something that i think is possibly coming up in one of your beautifully composed jingles anthony i do think this is a topic where i'd be really especially interested in what listeners have to say when people email in and share their comments and you know we do really welcome that because uh it's fantastic not just us chatting with each other but hearing what people all around the world have to say on these topics and uh yeah be really interested to know what people make of this one absolutely well seeing as you've said that we may as well give the email address now it's enough of the falafel at gmail.com and as dominic said
00:33:28
Speaker
You can hurl abuse at us. You can tell us we've missed out. We've been completely uneducated about things. Absolutely fine. And you're allowed to agree as well. But, like, there there is no... Anthony, I just want you to say how handsome I am. That's all I want.
00:33:44
Speaker
joy Joking, joking. Yeah, absolutely. But, no, we we do not filter... anything that we that we receive like we receive it we read it we share it and we read them out in our um um unless you don't want us to i always ask first but we read them out and discuss them in our listener mailbag shows so um we're very very receptive to that are there any final points anyone wants to make before we run things off Is it okay if I ask our listeners something?
00:34:10
Speaker
I'm really curious because I don't know the answer. I'm really curious to know what our listeners think. So it's an open question for them. Talking about taxes and policies and all this, I would like to know if listeners believe that a meat tax
Debate on Taxing Meat vs. Methane
00:34:26
Speaker
on the end consumer, so when people buy meat, would be more or less effective than a methane tax on producers.
00:34:36
Speaker
So I'd really love for our listeners to comment on this because I'm puzzled. I don't know what we would be more effective. Let's tax customers on meat or let's tax producers on methane emission.
00:34:48
Speaker
Could you spend 30 seconds on each option there, kind of saying a bit more about what it would look like? I think I understand the meat tax a bit more. That would just add to the cost, like in a supermarket...
00:35:02
Speaker
A steak normally costs £5, but now it costs £6. So you're taxing the consumer at the point of purchase, yeah? but Yes. Could you say a bit more about what a methane tax would be taxing the producer? So, for example, um the equivalent would be for companies that produce CO2.
00:35:24
Speaker
They pay a carbon tax or they're expected to pay a carbon tax. So if you have a farm with... 10,000, 5,000 cows. Obviously, cows produce methane.
00:35:37
Speaker
So a way of taxing producers would be to say, okay, you've got 10,000 cows, each of them produces X amount of ah litres of methane per day.
00:35:49
Speaker
That's a greenhouse gas. So therefore, you should be taxed for polluting. Because I'm curious to know if people think it's better to tax the end consumer to reduce demand,
00:36:01
Speaker
Or it's better to tax the producer to reduce supply. Well, there you go. Is it a weird question? Sorry. It's not a weird question. i am always i was wondering how it fitted into our conversation about banks and pensions and investments and things like that.
00:36:16
Speaker
Well, it it's because if we think about where we put our investments and all this, and how do we change through our money, it just led me, maybe i have a weird mind, but it just led me to think, okay, so if we're talking about money, it's better to penalize the consumption or to penalize the supply of something that we know is not good. Interesting. Interesting.
00:36:41
Speaker
I mean, for clarification, you definitely have a weird mind. to All of us on and enough of the fluffer and we, and we love you for it. And if you're listening to us now, you've, you know, you're vegan in 2025, you've probably got a slightly weird mind too.
00:36:56
Speaker
And we love you for it too. um
Listener Engagement and Conclusion
00:36:58
Speaker
And if you love what we're doing, we would really love it. If you could share our work or give us a cheeky little review on your podcast player.
00:37:08
Speaker
And here's how to do that. If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too.
00:37:20
Speaker
We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
00:37:35
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
00:37:47
Speaker
I realise that didn't tell you how to leave a review or anything at all. when It just told you again to to to leave one. If you're listening on Spotify, if you go to our sort of landing page, there is an option there to rate and review us. I think you can just leave a star rating. There's no sort of comments, but you can comment on any of our episodes on Spotify. Richard, you're ah you're an Apple man. How do people do it on ah iTunes? Can you remember how how do people leave a review? Yeah, they need to go to podcasts.
00:38:18
Speaker
I don't think it's it's no longer called iTunes. It's just the podcast app. They go there and they can leave a review there. Easy peasy, easy peasy. Anyway, thank you, Dominic. Thank you, Richard, for that really interesting conversation. The first conversation we've had about money things in that kind of way.
00:38:36
Speaker
um And I hope it won't be the last. um And as we said just before that break, we love hearing from you. So do drop us an email. enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. There's loads that we didn't cover there.
00:38:49
Speaker
relating to money and there'll be loads of insight and data that you have that we don't and we'd we'd love to hear your opinion so do get in touch. The next Enough of the Falafel episode will be coming out available from Monday April the 14th that will be featuring Carlos, Kate and Anthony and the Vegan Week is the usual roundup of the latest vegan and animal rights news.
00:39:18
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks, Dominic and Anthony, for all your contributions. It's been smashing being here, talking to you. I'm going interject. Richard, thank you thank you for helping us start the podcast back in the day.
00:39:35
Speaker
We wouldn't be here without you either, so I'm go to thank you too. And I wouldn't be here without you. So it it's mutual. And obviously we wouldn't be here without you. The most important part, the listener, which we hope you've enjoyed. And we hope you find our comments, our rundown of the news useful. And i we hope to see you next week, at least that you're listening to us next week.
00:40:01
Speaker
I've been Richard. You've been listening to Vegan Talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:40:12
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:40:27
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening, and see you next time.
00:40:53
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:41:14
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:41:28
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.