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167- Becoming a hero is easier than you think...
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Turns out, all you need to do is smash up a vegan's megaphone in ASDA. Whilst that may have been the viral news of the week, we've found out a less-reported nugget of information that rather changes things....oh the anticipation! Mark, Paul & Ant looks at this and several more news stories from the last seven days or so, all of which have a vegan or animal rights slant.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/apr/19/shocking-animal-cruelty-claims-as-vets-blow-whistle-on-export-abattoirs-ntwnfb
https://www.technologynetworks.com/proteomics/news/vegans-who-meet-protein-requirements-may-lack-key-amino-acids-398693
https://plantbasednews.org/culture/new-documentary-vegan-ultrarunner-paul-youd/
https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/crustacean-welfare-guidance-could-devastate-shellfish-industry/
https://vegconomist.com/marketing-and-media/dr-angela-crawfords-vegan-transformation-explores-emotional-entrepreneurial-impact-veganism/
https://news.illinois.edu/omnivorous-vegan-makes-no-difference-to-muscle-building-after-weight-training-study-finds/
https://www.huntsabs.org.uk/weally-good-news-the-demise-of-the-wealden-mink-hounds/
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/news/la-vie-invites-fellow-vegan-brands-to-reuse-its-tv-ad/703632.article
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/vegan-shopper-protest-megaphone/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14634805/Hero-shopper-smashed-vegans-megaphone-protested-Easter-lamb-Asda-apologises-gives-60.html
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Mark, Paul & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, this is the place to be if you want to hear vegan and animal rights news from the last week or so. I'm Anthony, joining me for this episode are Mark and Paul, but that is enough of the falafel because it is time for Vegan Week.
00:00:16
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Take your lab grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry. They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:35
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick the
00:00:43
Speaker
social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:59
Speaker
I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser
Vegan Trouble-makers - Are They Real?
00:01:02
Speaker
vision. and Hi everyone, you are listening to Mark from Down Under and over to the side a bit. Welcome to this week's Vegan News. Hello everyone, it's Paul here. If you're new to the show, and you might not know that this is our news show where where basically we take a number of stories so And we'll look at those fairly high level. They're related, obviously, to veganism and animal rights news.
00:01:26
Speaker
And then we'll delve into a couple of other stories in more in more detail to to talk about with you. But that's enough of the falafel. Let's hear what's going on this week.
Animal Welfare Breaches in Export Trade
00:01:39
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode available on your podcast player.
00:01:52
Speaker
Okay, I'm not going to dress it up any other way. Our first story this week is not particularly pleasant. I would say most of the stories this week are quite positive, but we are kicking things off with quite an upsetting one. It comes from roundabout mark's part of the globe, though slightly more sideways.
00:02:11
Speaker
um or less sideways, depending on how you're looking at it, in that this comes from Australia. In fact, it comes to us from The Guardian Australia. They have been doing a four-month investigation, and they have revealed an awful lot of horrible, horrible things going on, specifically involved with animals that are in their export trade. So not necessarily those that are sort of being killed and consumed within Australia.
00:02:41
Speaker
Specific details, they found that more than 100 sheep died from hypothermia and exposure after an animal truck drove for nine hours through heavy rain in 2002. They found out about disturbing animal welfare breaches.
00:02:56
Speaker
This was a particularly disturbing one. um An understaffing crisis leaving abattoirs unmonitored for long stretches of time. Extraordinarily, more than half of the state's export abattoir vets whistle-blowed this. It was that bad. More than half the vets were saying that this was awful, but basically nothing happened as a result of it.
00:03:18
Speaker
There's a report of at least one vet being diagnosed with PTSD saying they felt isolated unsupported by managers. It's a big expose. It's come into the public's awareness, I guess, by being put in a very prominent newspaper in The Guardian. And Mark, there's no two ways about it. It's horrific stuff to read.
00:03:38
Speaker
I would say even for those of us who are used to reading about stuff like this happening to animals. Yeah, indeed. I mean, I can only imagine the the sort of feeling a vet has on a Monday morning or a Sunday evening where when they're when they're thinking about the week's work ahead. I cannot imagine...
00:03:55
Speaker
being a vet and working somewhere like that. I assume, I might be wrong this, I've never actually met a vet. i assume that most vets have some concern for animals, generally speaking, and to have to go in and be a witness to this to make sure that they aren't breaking any laws.
00:04:14
Speaker
And even when they are, there's very little that they can do about it. It must be such a disempowering job. It must be such a hostile environment for them because they're there to police the workers, basically. And most workers are paid on the amount of work that they get done. So the conveyor belts are very, very quick. The work is awful. It's really dangerous.
00:04:33
Speaker
and And then they have these guys ah policing everything they do for good reason, but it just must be the worst place to work in the world. At at least one vet is being diagnosed with PTSD. I'd say they all have nightmares from this. I do feel feel sorry for them. They are collaborating and helping oil a death machine, essentially.
00:04:52
Speaker
But I can understand their position and I do not envy them. It is interesting that that this sort of stuff is coming out from vets as opposed to... animal rights activists who go in undercover into these sort of places for a few weeks or a few months at a time, and they come out traumatized.
00:05:10
Speaker
These guys go in every day of the week for years and years. And the the discord between why they probably got into vet medicine and what they're doing now for a living must be huge. co ah Cognitive dissonance playing out in their mind must be massive.
00:05:26
Speaker
Yeah, so as I say, it is very interesting that loads of vets are saying this now. So it's coming from, um in the public side, a more objective platform, perhaps. You mentioned cognitive dissonance. I mean, that comes in reading further down the article where it says that the Federal Agriculture Department has rejected allegations that the Integrity of Export Abattoir Oversight Programme is compromised.
00:05:49
Speaker
It said it's adequately staffed. It takes regulatory action where appropriate for breaches of animal welfare requirements. Business as usual. It's like, what more evidence do you need? Like there are countless, countless reports here from across the board and from, like you say, Mark, those working within the industry. that There's clearly something wrong, but they're just completely head in the sand by the looks of it.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It just shows the priority and domination of profit in this segment.
00:06:20
Speaker
And this is more proof of that. Yeah, absolutely. And we'll move on to another story where similar sorts of things are being talked about.
Crustacean Welfare Guidelines Debate
00:06:28
Speaker
But I would say from those of us who hold animal rights dear to our hearts, I would say this is a more positive one.
00:06:35
Speaker
This comes to us from fishingnews.co.uk. So you can probably imagine the tone of this article. They are saying that crustacean welfare guidance could devastate the shellfish industry.
00:06:48
Speaker
Oh, no we're thinking, listening to that. from a vegan point of view. um and And basically what the article is is saying, we'll go into a bit more detail in a moment. They're basically saying if the new DEFRA guidance is followed to the letter, then it's basically going to put lots of people out of business who make their business crustaceans, ah shellfish, that sort of thing.
00:07:14
Speaker
This follows the passing of the Animal Welfare Sentience Act in 2022. DEFRA has moved to develop guidelines for crustaceans in line with the welfare of animals at the time of killing regulations. So it's basically about saying, how sentient is this creature?
00:07:31
Speaker
What is it going to experience at the moment that it's killed? Or and you know how much suffering is there going to be so defra has confirmed that it's developing guidelines for the killing of decapod crustaceans so that's crab lobster and nephrops both ashore and at sea the guidelines will apply only to english vessels and only to activities within 12 nanometers but i i guess like oh sorry nanometers 12 nautical miles um bit of a difference there um
00:08:05
Speaker
i I guess like our first reaction to this, Paul, is like I said, at anything that looks to devastate the shellfish industry, what we've got to see as ah as a positive thing. But like, do you think the industry has a point here? i mean, they seem to be saying you haven't consulted with us. This could decimate us. Like, have they got a point? Probably from their point of view, they have. But I think when we look into this a little bit more, the actual benefits from a vegan point of view seem pretty...
00:08:32
Speaker
minimal so i mean essentially what we're talking about here is things such as these guidelines include um suggestions that nae props which is a word i've never had to say before in the past are tailed at sea must have their heads macerated to prevent the brain of a prawn from feeling pain ah don't know if it's kind of not really like that yeah please macerate my head just to sort of save me a bit of pain doesn't sound great does it um but the other the other bit here is it seems a bit inconsistent because it's sort of talking about recommending a ban on spiking lobsters ashore which would be i guess a similar pretty gratuitous thing to do albeit to kill their pain receptors before it's cooked and i think we all know as vegans you know the
00:09:21
Speaker
Cooking of live lobsters is one of the things that I seem to remember from early days. It just seems to be one of the most barbaric um and unnecessary abuses that takes place to to animals. So yeah you know just from that bit, it seems like an inconsistent set of benefits and even the ones that are maybe better still involve the macerating of someone's head, which doesn't typically sound like a good thing.
00:09:47
Speaker
I mean, one question i I had, sorry to interrupt, I wondered whether we're actually just getting to the point with this sort of thing where people are realizing you either have to do inhumane things or this business is not viable, you know, and and actually taking things from a welfarist point of view, which I do sympathize with. I understand why people want to sort of make these incremental gains or kind of decrease. It's not really a gain, is it it's decreasing that the horror but by a marginal but amount.
00:10:17
Speaker
There comes a point where it either becomes too expensive for a business to do or it's not making any bloody difference anyway, is it? So i I don't know whether it sort of signals the end a bit quicker than we might have originally thought. Yeah, I mean, if we read some of the quotes from ah some of the people that are speaking on behalf of the animal abuse, um you've got retailers and chefs on here basically saying that with these guidelines, people might have to switch to imported sources. i think they're playing on the whole Buy British nonsense.
00:10:53
Speaker
ah Essentially, I think because those guidelines wouldn't apply there and they wouldn't be subject to the same sort of, i don't want to use the word care, but, you know, the same type of guidelines. um And I think if anything, just goes case to show how far people are willing to put their profit over any kind of nominal care for animals. You know, it's all about the bottom line.
00:11:12
Speaker
They want to maintain a a provenance of cruelty. um They don't want to give this smidgen of extra welfare if it if it impacts ah impacts their profits. I mean, there was one quote from one guy here saying, I sell 20 lobsters on a good day.
00:11:27
Speaker
simply isn't worth the expense you know ah of spending four grand on a stunner that only takes two shellfish at a time. So it's all about the money. That's what they're worried about. They're not saying they don't necessarily disagree with the welfare or or anything like that. it's just about the money.
00:11:44
Speaker
No other consideration, as far as I
Activism and Lobster Liberation
00:11:46
Speaker
can see from the article. If you go on to, if the if the listeners, after listening to the show today, ah go on to YouTube and tap in Lobster Liberation Dublin, they will see footage of the National Animal Rights Association activists going into A Chinese restaurant in the middle of Dublin and taking the lobsters in the tank that were on display in the in the restaurant window in front of the customers, taking three or four lobsters from tank and driving them to Dublin Bay and releasing them and back into the into the water. and they And they recorded the entire thing and after pleading with the owners over a period of months and holding demonstrations outside, asking them to stop selling live lobster.
00:12:28
Speaker
and they And they wouldn't heed the call. So the lobsters were... liberated instead. As far as i know, it's the only live liberation of lobsters on the planet. I could be wrong. but Yeah, yeah. Get in touch, listeners, if you if you know any different.
Vegan Diets and Nutritional Study
00:12:45
Speaker
it It really does show just the transparent lack of any kind of care, this article. I mean, it is an advantage of of taking some of our news direct from these industries, from fishing news,
00:12:59
Speaker
.co.uk, for example, here, there was a bit where they said, well, if we take these regulations to the letter and you think, well, that they're regulations, like you need to take them to the letter, but it's almost kind of put forward as like, well, obviously we're not going to take them, you know, as they're written.
00:13:14
Speaker
That would be ridiculous. It does make you think of many other cases that we've reported over the months and and years of doing this show where people are not actually sticking to the rules. hope Hopefully this is an industry.
00:13:26
Speaker
on its way out Thank you for that one, Paul. We have looked at some regulation type stories then and some exposés. Let's get a bit more scientific now and look at a study.
00:13:39
Speaker
This one comes to us from technologynetworks.com where... A recent study conducted in New Zealand, published in the very ah prestigious PLOS One, they've evaluated both the quantity and quality of protein intake among long-term vegans.
00:14:00
Speaker
More on that phrase in a minute. ah The findings show that whilst most participants met total protein requirements, a significant portion fell short in essential amino acids and it was a couple of particular amino acids the lysine and leucine lysine and leucine thank you mark thank you mark but yeah so that this um this thing about long-term vegans they had to have been vegan for two years so yeah okay that's not someone just doing veganuary but in terms of somebody that
00:14:33
Speaker
getting used to routines where they're, you know, making their diet as optimal as possible. I would say I definitely have learned more since my first two years of being vegan.
00:14:44
Speaker
But interestingly, these 193 vegans had their four-day food diaries analysed. We can already see some of the issues with the study. Around 75% of them met the estimated average requirement for total total daily protein.
00:15:04
Speaker
But as we say, it was the leucine and the lysine that was not there in sufficient amounts for a good proportion of them, which, Mark, is simply solved by legumes and pulses, apparently. that's That was at least mentioned in the study. What what was your response to this one? Did you sort of immediately rush to mycaloriecounter.com or whatever and start checking your macronutrients or...
00:15:31
Speaker
ah no No, I didn't know. im go say I mean, for for the first sort of half of my vegan journey, I really didn't know much about or I knew as much as the average guy on the street about health.
00:15:43
Speaker
So not very much. And most of which I thought I knew was probably wrong in some way. OK, so it's only as I've been getting older and been getting more interested in my own health and just sort of honing my own arguments about veganism that I've I've I've i know a lot more about it now a lot more about what protein is, what b twelve is, where it comes from, what why it's lacking and so stuff like this.
00:16:06
Speaker
I'd never heard of lysine and leucine. This is really going into the long grass here. um Essentially, it sort of kicks up a bit of a fuss at the start, sort of It's a bit panicky. And then at the end, it just says, oh all of these problems can be ah solved by adding legumes, nuts and seeds to to your diet. So in in that sort of balance, that then you then you are getting the the the bioavailability of leucine and lysine is far higher if you combine ah your proteins with a few different, of if you if you mix your proteins up. So you have legumes, nuts and seeds, they're all protein heavy. So if you have them together, then
00:16:44
Speaker
you will you would you will be doing fine. So, um yeah, it's it's it's ah it's a story about nothing really. It is interesting that they're saying this in the first place. They are recognizing that about 3% of the global population are now vegan. It's more or less, depending on where you are, but it's about 3% overall, according to these guys.
00:17:04
Speaker
globally. So so that's a big increase on what was 10 or 20 years ago. And the reason that they that that the study was done and that they're reporting on this at all is because they recognize the growing importance and take up of plant-based eating and veganism.
00:17:20
Speaker
So I don't think it's it's of so major concern to most people, but as long as you're getting a good mix, a rainbow on your plate, as they say, then you can't go too far on this stuff is only for the science and neuros i'd say i I have to say I've gone through phases where I've sort of tracked my nutrition really carefully and I didn't have this problem and I wasn't being you know really fastidious about it I would i was eating like you know chickpeas and and and lentils and things like that and the app I was using which was chronometer all of the different sort of sub proteins were listed as fine obviously everyone's different and obviously that's not
00:18:01
Speaker
proper medical advice but just anecdotally ah I think so long as you're eating you're getting your protein generally from whole foods I think you'd do quite well not to get all those little macro thingies something that popped into my mind as well was in the headline here They're saying vegans who meet protein requirements may lack key amino acids.
00:18:22
Speaker
Well, surely a more thorough study would have been to have taken 193 carnists from New Zealand as well and done the same thing because surely it's possible to eat an animal based diet or a diet that includes animal products and for the same thing to happen you meet your total protein but some of those macro ones aren't met too and and i i think i took issue that it's kind of that the the headline is implying well be careful vegans because you might not actually be getting the protein you want well yeah that's true but surely that's true for anybody yeah um i think that the the study itself is a very small uh sample group for four days so it was that is suggesting this might be the case.
00:19:07
Speaker
i would I would encourage anyone, ah vegan or otherwise, but particularly vegans, to get a ah yearly blood test done via their health clinic and they will check for all the sorts of metrics, all the important metrics like your irons and your proteins and your lipids and all the rest of it. And you will get...
00:19:25
Speaker
for for me it's free i got get i get it done around christmas ah around Christmas time every year and it it just tells you where and if you were you were ah lacking in in any of the significant micro and macro nutrients basically and it's an easy way to to ah keep to keep tabs on on your own personal health so that you don't go down the rabbit hole of thinking oh if i'm if I'm sick now it must be because of my diet rather than anything else Because people are telling me that veganism is a ah poor ah poor nutrition diet and so on.
00:19:57
Speaker
So you can cut through all that bullshit basically by getting a yearly blood test done. and And you know exactly where you stand then. And you don't need to worry about your diet and
Plant vs. Animal Protein
00:20:07
Speaker
stuff like that.
00:20:07
Speaker
Yeah. And if, like Mark suggests, you have it on the lead up to Christmas, if you've been a good boy, you can have as many vegan mince pies you want afterwards as well as a reward. So to follow on from this study regarding protein and plant-based sources of it, we've got another similar question.
00:20:26
Speaker
story. This comes to us from the University of Illinois Urbana Champagne, which is an institution I had never heard of before. However, they seem to have been putting an interesting set of questions that is going against a, well, I won't call it a common misconception because it has come from a study. There was, they they say, there was a long-standing belief or current dogma that animal-based protein sources were better, particularly for muscle building response.
00:20:57
Speaker
And in fact, they quote a previous study where muscle biopsies were taken after a single feeding of animal products that found that they were more of a stimulus for muscle protein than a vegan meal. However, they wanted to challenge this by going into a bit more detail. So they asked three questions.
00:21:16
Speaker
Does the source of protein, plant or animal-based, make any difference to muscle gain over a longer period of time? Second, does it matter if the daily protein intake is distributed throughout the day?
00:21:27
Speaker
um And third, does it matter if you have loads of protein or is it enough just to have just your bare minimum. And basically, they found out that none of these things make any difference at all. So from a vegan point of view, we can resolve that actually if building muscle or if you're worried about um your body's ability to to do so, it doesn't seem like in the long run, these things make a difference. You're no worse off from plant-based point of view.
00:21:59
Speaker
Did this surprise you, Paul? You've had ah a look at this one in a bit more detail. is Was that... that yeah ah Yeah, well, no, but I think the thing that really surprised me about this was really the last line of the article, because um I'm always sceptical about any research in terms of its scientific nature, especially when we're talking about things that are sponsored or funded by people. And that includes if it's funded by vegan sources you know you're you're looking for potential susceptibility to not being neutral and this particular study was oh well overseen i'm not exactly sure what that means but it's overseen by the national cattleman's beef board so sounds quite a meaty slant to this um and it's part of their
00:22:47
Speaker
beef check-off program. I'm not sure if that's something to do with Star Trek, but it sounds a bit weird. But yeah, so if I read that last line first, I'd be thinking, oh yeah, we're going to hear, you know, yeah, you've got to have beef, vegan foods, rubbish, just protein.
00:23:01
Speaker
But yeah, weirdly, and ah you don't see this very often, I don't think, the fact that they came out with a, no, it's the same, I was very surprised to see an article with that sort of declared influence basically saying for that first part of the question in there that whether it's vegan or meat-based protein, it's the same it's the same benefit. So, I mean, I'd you' rather see that it said the vegan benefit is better, and I think there's lots of studies and people that would say that, but the fact that it's kind of not kind of arguing the toss that meat is better, quite the surprise, I think, quite the surprise. Yeah, yeah. i i'm I'm not sure, ah just to play devil's advocate, I'm not sure it's always better to say that plant-based stuff is better. I actually almost think there's quite a strong power in saying it's no worse.
00:23:53
Speaker
Just because sometimes you can get into like a culture wars back and forth. If if someone is told, oh, no, vegan things are better. but Actually just saying, no, no, no, you're not at any disadvantage. I think sometimes that can just take the sting out of things.
00:24:06
Speaker
But yeah, the whole fact that it was the yeah the beef check-off program and the National Cattlemen's Beef Board that have put their time and money into this. And then the university at the end has gone...
00:24:18
Speaker
No, it makes no difference, mate. It's like that the icing on on top of the cake, isn't it? The cherry on top, you just think. The final thing that could have of made it better.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yeah, i'm I'm not sure. I'd love to sort of so be a fly on the wall for that conversation when they publish the stuff to them again. and yeah and This wasn't exactly the this wasn't the idea of the when we funded this.
00:24:39
Speaker
We didn't really want this result. You could just see them rummaging through the pages going, there's got to be something in here somewhere. yeah. No, makes no difference, mate. Sorry. men Men of science, and we've said this the same, and you go, all right, well, we know well I suspect the Cattlemen's Beef Board may not be sponsoring future work by this organisation, would be my guess, but hey, who knows?
00:25:02
Speaker
Who knows? I must say, I'm surprised that they they even even released it. It's the sort of thing that they would sit on or throw away. you know i mean, if they were paying for this, then it's theirs, and they don't have to.
00:25:13
Speaker
but to publicise it if if the ah figures aren't in their favour. So, yeah, it is amazing that you couldn't get a more more redneck meat, the National Cattlemen's Beef Board. I mean, it's so archaic. You can see them with their sets and hats on and their Colt 45 and their hips and all that sort of reading through this thing saying, we paid for this, you know, so it's great. It's great. And it also highlighted something that I i learnt from a book recently seven or eight years ago now the whole thing about actually how much protein we need this is suggesting that even if you are trying to like specifically build muscle mass there's no advantage to just completely gorging on 70 kilograms of protein a day there's just there's just no need like you you just get your minimum
00:26:05
Speaker
And that's it. It's it's not a case of like, oh, if you double the amount of protein, you'll double your muscle mass. it's It's nonsense. And it's all, it just highlights how these animal ag industries have got into people's minds and and given them false signs to thinking, oh, we've we we must be storing up protein in our fridges and our in our larders. Otherwise, you know, we'll all waste away.
00:26:28
Speaker
It's nonsense. there's ah There's a line in the article as well to to refer back to the previous story about the balancing of the leucine and the lysine amino acids and all that.
00:26:39
Speaker
there's ah there's ah there's There's a line here in the report that says the vegan diet balanced the amino acid content of the meals, ensuring that but that participants consumed complete proteins.
00:26:50
Speaker
So they're they're saying there that it's it's it's it's completely possible and very easy to get the amino acids that you need from your protein by just combining, having a ah proper balance, having an informed balance of different proteins. so I know we've had numerous articles looking at bodybuilding, vegan bodybuilding and all this sort stuff.
00:27:08
Speaker
I do wonder, I don't know, I mean, it's not an area I look at a lot, but do wonder whether, I wouldn't say the the battle's been lost by the meat industry, but whether people in general, and um I mean non-vegans, are now just kind of in the majority accepting or aware of the fact that you don't don't have to meat.
00:27:26
Speaker
steak and eggs every day you know to be a muscle is that is that so old hat now that people recognize that i i don't know it'd be interesting to speak to some of the um more knuckle dragging types to see it might just depend where your gym is based i imagine a brighton based gym might be very uh forward thinking and things like that but i i know folk who go to the gym around here and i'm pretty sure they're ah obsessed with eating as much chicken as possible because they think that's the only way it can work. But yeah, tide's turning, isn't it?
Inspiring Vegan Stories
00:27:59
Speaker
So I'm interested in telling our listeners about a new short film coming out now. We've we've heard about some studies. We've heard about some political stuff. Now let's tell you about a couple of new things that have come out. And this one is called More Like Paul.
00:28:16
Speaker
And I would really love it if there was a short film that was all about our Paul called More Like Paul and we could, you know, inspire people to be more like Paul. But alas, this one is following an 87 year old vegan runner called Paul Yowd.
00:28:33
Speaker
However, i can tell you that our very own Kate has indeed ran alongside Paul in one of his ultra marathons because the big story here is that this 87 year old incredible vegan runner Paul Yowd is attempting to complete 100 ultra marathons before his 100th birthday. He's 87.
00:28:56
Speaker
He's done about 20 so far. So he needs to average about six ultra marathons per year to meet his target. He also does a ludicrous number of press-ups.
00:29:06
Speaker
He's trying to do a million press-ups before he turns 90. He does about a thousand press-ups every three days. He passed the 650,000 press-up mark two years ago. He says, I'm as healthy as I've ever been, I'm as fit as I've ever been and I'm living my best life. I'm on no meds and I want to keep going as long as I can. And he has got this film coming out. Like i say, it's called More Like Paul, directed by Damien Skiberas of Shortstop Films.
00:29:37
Speaker
And Mark, this sounds like exactly the kind of feel good content that we want to be watching, I reckon. Oh, this guy is amazing. I was so impressed about this guy. um've I've never heard about him before, but I mean, what he's doing, Mayim My my my um dad is 87 and he's doing very well for his age, but he couldn't do it. not you know He could barely walk. I mean, he walks around a lot. There's no way going to be doing this sort of stuff.
00:30:01
Speaker
so So this guy apparently at the age of 60 or up to the age of 60, he was eating the typical standard American diet, as they call it. ah So dairy and meat heavy. Then he got a life changing medical diagnosis at the age of 60. fitness routine and took up plant-based eating and running at the age of 60 and has now and now 27 years later has done all these things and he intends to live to to lose 100 which is something that I want to do as well but I'm not sure if going to include all that ultra-maritaning
00:30:34
Speaker
in in my years. But oh, this guy is amazing. And and he he's ah he's a living, breathing billboard for veganism. I mean, the impact that this guy will have on people's consensus and ideas about plant-based eating is massive, potentially. So more people like Paul, absolutely. it's it's uh tiring to even read about for what he plans to do like another 80 ultra marathons is it another 80 yeah 80 in the next 13 years yeah yeah next 13 years so it's it's just i mean hats off to this guy i know that the ultra marathoning thing has taken off big time in the last decade or so it blows my mind that anyone can run ah marathon and beyond that is just that there's a There's a guy here, Josh, that I do ah regular monthly talks in libraries around Oakland, or I used to until I moved out of Oakland.
00:31:25
Speaker
And Josh is a long-time vegan and does this sort of stuff for for where he runs continuously for 24 hours without stopping. you know, loaded on bananas and, you know, ah breaking all these records and cycling. And and it's just, knackers me out even hearing about it, you know. So I think these heroes are absolutely amazing. And they're real heroes to the movement. And yeah, we ah should be very proud of these people. Yeah, absolutely. And and great as well when that incredible athletic performance
00:31:57
Speaker
on a plant-based diet is is backed up by animal rights sentiments as well. i really liked he he said the phrase, um people use the word compassionate um when talking about caring for animals, but I prefer the word respect.
00:32:11
Speaker
You should respect the life of an animal. So all round great sounding advocate um is is Paul and um great that he's having a short film made about him and we will let you know when that is available to be viewed.
00:32:25
Speaker
ah listeners because we'll certainly be wanting to watch it. Maybe we'll do a little review episode on that. Another thing that has come out in the last week, um I believe it came out on the 22nd of April, is a book called The Vegan Transformation by Dr. Angela Crawford, which explores the emotional and entrepreneurial impact of veganism. We're not talking about health benefits here. We're not talking about anything along that line. We're talking about emotional and entrepreneurial
00:32:58
Speaker
impacts. She talks about, we've we've put a link in the show notes for you to read what is basically a press release that appears on Veg Economist's website. um Dr. Crawford holds a PhD in psychology and she talks about how how her own journey into plant-based eating and and veganism initially led her towards trying to do lots of nutrition-y things and then realised that wasn't her thing, but she's noticed a big impact in her personal and professional direction.
00:33:32
Speaker
um She says, being vegan has been the missing puzzle piece in my life without me realising And basically, it's the book spotlights how individuals have aligned their professional lives with with their values, which is a trend seen across the growing vegan business sector.
00:33:50
Speaker
Paul, it got me thinking this one. i I mean, obviously, the premise of the book is that she's not the only person who's had this kind of alignment. But um I think it's an interesting angle, isn't it? This this whole kind of thing of discovering veganism and then it affecting you in ways that you hadn't foreseen yeah i mean uh i've not read the book in detail and i must the press releases a little bit it feels it jumps around a little bit it's difficult to kind of get a good gauge of exactly where the book was sort of trying to take things but yeah i think um looking at the mental health well-being side of things i think probably people who've been vegan for a while might be able to
00:34:33
Speaker
I guess find some links with that they might find they're less conflicted in perhaps choices that they weren't comfortable with before in terms of their dietary choice and might bring them some kind of you know inner peace or whatever you want to term it because they're following that up The other bit, I guess, which again, I felt a bit juxtaposed to me, but the thing about how it progresses people in terms of maybe following up the direction of their professional lives or even sort of starting know businesses feel a bit unrelated to me. However, I quite like the idea of like looking at that because from the perspective of there might be people who never really wanted or had a desire to run their own business. However, when they've embraced veganism and they...
00:35:19
Speaker
feel like they want to kind of make that, well, it kind of triggers them to kind of think in more of that sense and want to become, um, more entrepreneurial, obviously. And you've mentioned several times about your sort of, um, your previous business, but I know when I went vegan, I love food. So at one point I was really, um,
00:35:36
Speaker
serious about um investing in a vegan food business that was in Birmingham because i I felt it was a bit like putting your money where your mouth was for me. That business actually folded sadly, but I was kind of wanting to kind of make it part of my life.
00:35:52
Speaker
financially and kind of and and use that to ah promote promote the um the vegan way if you like as well so perhaps you know you kind of go into it maybe not thinking like that it's kind of maybe more friend more welfare and more rights etc but you end up kind of like no i want to embrace it even more and start literally putting my money my money into it as well It says here that the the book involves 345 survey participants, 75 in-depth interviews.
00:36:22
Speaker
So I guess if there's an an alignment there in what's being said, there's there's got to be something said for it. And just thinking about it when you were talking about it then, Paul, like I think it can be empowering, can't it? in ah In a world where often we feel like we can't do anything, you you come across veganism and you very often one of the things people feel is they feel like Well, actually, I can make a difference. I can do something here. I'm not powerless in this one regard. And I guess that the theory is that that can snowball and you can go, well, actually, if I can affect this, then maybe I can affect more than I thought I could anyway.
00:36:56
Speaker
But um anyway, I guess to to learn more, you need to read the book. um There is a link in the show notes. And like say, the title is The Vegan Transformation, A Journey to Heal Yourself and the World.
00:37:09
Speaker
Right, those first six stories have been the ones that I have asked Paul and Mark to talk about. But after this short break, they are going to talk about the stories that they particularly picked out from the week's news. They're both really positive.
00:37:22
Speaker
One is about a business doing something quite new, groundbreaking and unusual. And the other is about some campaigners and direct action folk who have made a real positive difference too.
00:37:41
Speaker
Okay, Mark, we'll start off with
Animal Rights Victories and Business Collaborations
00:37:43
Speaker
yours. You have got news from the Hunt Saboteurs and the great news is that we've got news that a group of mink hounds have been disbanded.
00:37:54
Speaker
Okay, so my pick of the week is it comes from the Hunt Saboteurs Association, one of my favourite associations on the planet. Hunt Sabotage is one of the most wonderful things the animal rights movement has come out with and i think what they do and uh how they do it is an inspiration to all so this is about uh yet another um hunt going under the demise of the wielding mink hounds in in a place called uh they're connected with the chilling fold hunt right so so this is the the demise of one more mink hounds i think when when hunt sabotage started in the end of the 60s there was about 250 licensed hunts around the uk so that includes fox hunts and otter hunts at the time when they almost exterminated all the other they then this the and the otter was protected by law in the 1970s the these are people who decided then that the mink were the
00:38:49
Speaker
main culprits and then formed mink hunts. So mink hunts come from other hunts. Now there's there was about 250 at the start of the hunt sabotage campaign in the 1960s.
00:39:00
Speaker
Now it's in free fall. It's probably about 160 thereabouts licensed hunts left in the UK. And every couple of months, a few more go under. So this is one more hunt going under. The Wielden were formed in autumn 1979, making one of the oldest packs formed specifically to hunt mink.
00:39:18
Speaker
So again, the the government at the time recognized that the otter hunts were devastating the countryside and leading to the extermination of otters. So they protected the otters by law.
00:39:30
Speaker
These bastards then decided that mink were actually the thing that they wanted to be chasing all along, not otters. So they just changed their names to mink hunts. They're notoriously violent. They're quite easy to sob as soon as you find them.
00:39:42
Speaker
They're very hard to find though. But as soon as you find them, you just you just walk alongside them as they're tracing through a river, ah trip trying to flush out a quarry, qua and you sabotage them directly. Because you're so close to them, the the potential for violence is quite high and they're quite violent people. And they carry big sticks and staffs with them as part of the their hunting equipment, which they can turn into weapons very quickly. So there have been some wild punch-ups between and saboteurs and mink hunts in rivers around the country, especially the southeast throughout the eighty s and 90s.
00:40:17
Speaker
So the Ewilden were a small private pack for much of their existence and one of the most elusive hunts in the country. In recent years, however, dedicated local subs put a lot ah lot of work into tracking them down and were rewarded on several occasions.
00:40:31
Speaker
So mink hunting takes place in summer as opposed to fox hunting in in the wintertime. So a lot of saboteurs who concentrate on fox hunts during winter changed their focus to mink hunts in the summertime.
00:40:44
Speaker
When the hound hounds find a scent, they will pursue the mink across land and water. If the poor animal seeks refuge in a burrow, it will be dug out or bolted by terriers and forced to run on, which means they will set the animal free in order just to chase it down again.
00:40:58
Speaker
If the poor thing climbs a tree, it will be dislodged by the hunt supporters. using long sticks this stop start pattern continues until the exhausted animal is overwhelmed and torn apart by hounds so uh an hsa so the the wielding uh folded uh recently and they're no longer about and so the all these hunts are are small businesses essentially they aren't really sports they're businesses where members pay their dues and with that money a few people are employed by the hunt to actually go out hunting most of the people
00:41:30
Speaker
accompanying them don't know really what hunting is all about. They're just there for the laugh, really. So these guys clearly have suffered from ah lack of and participation, therefore a lack of subs, therefore a lack of money, and they just go under.
00:41:44
Speaker
So people are put off by the presence of the saboteurs who will spoil their day's fun all they are out for is a day's fun if that has been sabotaged by a determined group of saboteurs it isn't fun anymore so that so they stop going so them so the membership just falls off a cliff and then the hunt do as well so every time sabs found the wielding mink hounds the hounds were accompanied by a small crew of terrier men exceptionally violent local yokels usually equipped with spays digging bars and the other two tools of their vile trade, which again, they will turn on saboteurs at a moment's notice.
00:42:19
Speaker
On at least one occasion, a hunt follower was filmed with an extendable pole used for poking mink out of trees, slung over his back. So these guys, they rampaged through really set set sensitive rural environments like ah rivers.
00:42:34
Speaker
and disturbing everything and smashing things up as they as they go through without a care in the world, really. So it is great news to see one more hunt going. and No doubt within the next few months, we'll be hearing news of more hunts going under until they're all gone.
00:42:48
Speaker
Yeah, and and these things are a matter of momentum, aren't they? you you know When you're taking part in a a fringe activity like this, and it is a fringe activity, if you hear that your second nearest mink hounds group has closed, then it it will make you question your own choices about the the one that you're currently attending to. And just, I mean, a couple of weeks ago, we heard Carlos talking about...
00:43:17
Speaker
at sabbing mink hunts and and how difficult it can be. Like you said, Mark, he said once once you find them, it's fine and it it stops very quickly, but it's just finding them in the first place.
00:43:29
Speaker
So, you know, you've got to take your hat off to the sabs who've gone through a big old grind to make this happen, but it's it should hopefully mean that um those rivers are ah ah safer places for the for the wildlife that is...
00:43:44
Speaker
that calls it its home really and that's that's what it's all about isn't it thank you for that one mark and like you say really really good news paul your pick for the week is good news too well i'm gonna take it as good news because it's it's talking about vegan businesses working together in really new innovative ways but it's um a bit of a different one, isn't it? it's It's almost like the whole copywriting thing has just been thrown out of the window. you want to tell us more? Yeah, I found this one really interesting, hence why I selected it as my story of the week. So it it it seems, mike this is my interpretation, that there was a bit of a spat between a couple of vegan food producers, Le Vie, a French organisation, I believe,
00:44:31
Speaker
and um it Is it ah Beyond, i is the other one? i think Yeah, yeah. I can't remember. but Yeah, so um I think there was a little bit of a spat around um copycat type advertisement. and But the way it was resolved was really nice, actually. I really like the fact that what we've ended up with, essentially, is Le Vie open sourcing, I guess for want of a better phrase, their advert collateral that they've obviously put money and time into and basically said,
00:44:58
Speaker
If other people want to use it, that they they're kind of welcome to. And it's, um I think for me, and I'm happy to be corrected on this, it's the first time I could think of actually seeing vegan different vegan food producers are really um coming out and saying, yeah, actually our underlying purpose here is all about the animals. Yes, we're a business, but we're here to kind of try and promote veganism.
00:45:23
Speaker
And I can't think I've s seen that that much with vegan food producers, and not that I can think of anyway. and So it felt a really... unusual and nice and I guess, um you know, unexpected um twist here.
00:45:37
Speaker
I don't know whether levie was sort of slightly on the back foot and um kind of felt they had to do something different here or whether that they saw, I'll say conflict as a opportunity to make it into something good.
00:45:50
Speaker
It doesn't really matter, but the fact is they've kind of come out and said, hey, we're all in this together, guys. um Our main thing is to try and, you know, spread the vegan love. So, And you want to use our adverts and kind of play around with it, then then then you can do. And I thought that was really, ah really nice story for me.
00:46:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's is' is's great, isn't it? And um it's interesting because of the the way that free market capitalism works and and supply and demand and things like that.
00:46:20
Speaker
actually vegan businesses are sometimes going to be competing for the same customer base and obviously the the ideal goal is that the customer base increases and that two or more companies can can all benefit from that but actually there's going be points where there is a bit like oh bastards like they're they're they're doing a similar vegan sausage to us what are going to do and there is still a little bit of cheekiness in this um if you follow the link in our show notes, you'll you'll see this kind of waiver that Levy have put forward.
00:46:54
Speaker
They call it copyright waiver thingy to copy our TV ad. Levy, proud creators of the first TV ad featuring a man eating a plum. So they they're still putting the needle in to Beyond Meat.
00:47:06
Speaker
But like you say, really, we're fighting the same battle. But if you are a capitalist company, you do need to satisfy your bottom line. And and that can be difficult. I mean, you you see in towns and cities across the world where you you might have one vegan cafe that's doing really well, and then all of a sudden, another one joins up, and then they both might struggle for a little while, because they've got the same audience, but two bottom lines to to satisfy.
00:47:34
Speaker
i I think it's it's ah it's a very generous and open hearted thing to do. i would imagine Filming an advert extraordinarily expensive and out of reach for the vast majority of businesses.
00:47:47
Speaker
So having this on offer and being able to play around with the Levy ad to introduce your own product rather than theirs, but essentially use the rest the advert that they have done, it must be an enormously practical and useful thing for other businesses to have access to. So hats off to Levy, it's great.
00:48:04
Speaker
I'd be really, really interested to see if anyone actually takes them up. onyx it It feels to me like beyond me that like they're a massive company. So they, you know, they've they've got their benefit from it.
00:48:16
Speaker
Levy, I think, are coming out of this really positively and in in terms of PR. Be interesting to see whether a third party would take them up on it or or not. don't know how much how much squeeze would be required to do that.
00:48:30
Speaker
I mean, it's im I'm sure it's not just a case of, oh, well, that's a free advert we've got there. Then it's not that simple, is it? But nice to see positive stuff being being said. And they mention the likes of this, Juicy Marbles and Uhura already engaged audience.
00:48:48
Speaker
with the campaign. So who knows, we'llll we'll see some sort of vegan super ad. they they I mean, they could do that, couldn't they? They could all join marketing budgets together, but the same mistake advertise all of their products. A 30 second ad costs the same.
00:49:05
Speaker
there There was a big campaign, I think, in the 90s that got milk adverts. Do you remember them? And it was big billboards of famous people at the time with the the milk moustache, so male and female people, right? And it and and and it just said got milk, and it and it was just simply advertising dairy as...
00:49:24
Speaker
a concept as a product, like like it didn't specify which product to buy or which brand. It just said got milk with a question mark. So the the idea the idea was that that was was that everyone's doing it. So as long as you're buying some dairy, it's going to benefit the industry generally. And yeah, it was an industry slash state led initiative.
00:49:43
Speaker
to encourage people to drink more white poison. And it was amazingly effective. And it was just like a collaborative effort to push ah propaganda, essentially. So we could do the same.
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. I mean, I think that was actually the milk but marketing board, if I remember rightly. And obviously, when you've got a big industry like dairy with that kind of representative, and I'm going to be corrected here potentially, but...
00:50:08
Speaker
Maybe that's what, maybe this is what vegan companies need. They need the kind of vegan food producer board that they take, they take their subscriptions, their costs from companies, bigger companies pay more, et cetera, et cetera.
00:50:21
Speaker
Then they represent them as a whole, use the same message, you know, like, stop killing animals stop eating animals etc stop eating their products yeah i mean maybe that's maybe that's something that's needed well if you have got some crazy marketing ideas out there or any other thoughts on anything we have said in today's show we would love hearing you you've heard me and paul and mark's opinion on things but your voice is just as valid we want to hear from you if you want to get in touch with us here is how to do so To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com.
Viral Incident Discussion
00:50:59
Speaker
We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:51:11
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Okay, just enough time for one last story of the week. There is a very good chance that you might have seen the first part of this story. We've taken it from LBC, but it has been on all sorts of places because it has got somebody grabbing a vegan activist's megaphone and throwing it to the floor and breaking it.
00:51:40
Speaker
Hooray! What a hero for this person, destroying someone's property and not letting the vegans ah point out the contradictions between looking after lambs and celebrating lambs at Easter whilst also eating them. So that it was the the first bit of this story. It's what you might call viral content. It's been covered in lots of places.
00:52:03
Speaker
The usual sort of trashy tabloid reporting on this, commenters saying, oh, good man, glad someone done it. great grammar there um another one saying felt sorry for a for a millisecond that the activist this is then i seen she was a vegan protester do you think they deliberately choose people who don't actually know how to speak english anyway then i seen she was a vegan protester oxford comma no sympathy lots of people obviously commenting saying actually no this is perfectly legitimate protest and um that's out of order what's happened
00:52:38
Speaker
However, when looking at this story and wondering, shall we report on this? It's a bit tabloidy. It's a bit trashy. Is there really a story here? We found another bit of this. A few days later, the Mail on Online reported, and this is interesting, that their their headline starts off on a certain angle, but then but it very much mellows. So a hero shopper who smashed a vegan protester. What a hero.
00:53:06
Speaker
What a hero. and When you think of your heroes, who do you think of? You know, Winston Churchill, maybe Earthling Ed. um I don't know. ah Michelle Obama. No, that bloke who smashed a megaphone in Asda. He's my hero.
00:53:20
Speaker
A hero shopper who smashed a vegan protestors megaphone during a supermarket protest over Easter lamb has apologised to her and given her £60 to replace it.
00:53:31
Speaker
It has now been revealed that he immediately apologised afterwards and offered to replace her equipment. That didn't appear in the viral video, did it? ah Witnesses told Mail Online that shortly after the clash, once he'd completed his shopping, look after number one, the man sought out the activist so that he could make peace with her and offer to buy her new equipment.
00:53:54
Speaker
and One person apparently said that man wasn't acting out of anger or malice. With tears in his eyes, he handed over the money, during which he explained how his time in Northern Ireland, um we're inferring from that, you know, with the armed forces during the troubles, had left him with a profound case of PTSD.
00:54:14
Speaker
And it was the megaphone itself that paralleled what he had been subject to in the past. And through a trigger event he could not control, he smashed it. What do we make of this then?
00:54:25
Speaker
This is all over the place. Who wants to get the ball rolling? I think the the the way it starts, Andy, you're right. There's this hero shopper who smashed vegans. like but He's not a hero. He's a poor, traumatised, probably an ex-squaddy, as you say, who who did a few stints too many in Northern Ireland and saw a bit too much.
00:54:45
Speaker
I'm not sure what the connection with the megaphone is. I'm racking my brains. I'm thinking maybe as a riot would begin to start in the street of belfast the The security forces, generally a british and British soldier, would shout through a megaphone at the rioters, ah warning them that if they if they if they continue in this behaviour, that the police will do A, B and C, they're now breaking the law. It's now a riot situation we are now able to use.
00:55:11
Speaker
extra force sort of thing. So someone shouting through a megaphone would be the precursor to a heavy riot that would last the afternoon or or the whole day or a week. okay And people like this, the hero shopper, would be subject to the fury of at a Catholic or a Protestant mob throwing Molotovs and shooting at them.
00:55:31
Speaker
um So maybe he he associates someone shouting through and megaphone with those incidents. I feel really sorry for the guy. I think it's a very human story. and The Daily Mail, a notorious right-wing rag, actually, as the story goes on, as you say, and it really mellows out and becomes very objective. And it isn't really about animals or animal rights at all. It's it's about this guy getting triggered and sort of taking it out on the person and beside him.
00:55:59
Speaker
In a way, it's it's quite a positive story. a guy he completes his shopping so as you say makes sure he gets his probably sausages and rashers in his in his ah and in his trolley and then goes and offers her money to as compensation now would 60 pounds cover the cost of a new megaphone app in in britain i mean i i'm not i'm not an expert but i i i would have thought the amount of money is is not a coincidence it seems a bit of random amount if that's not so the lepkin quoted yeah yeah yeah maybe after after we'd bought his steak like you say i mean paul what yeah you've you've seen this what was your take because i i found it quite annoying to be honest i'm
00:56:40
Speaker
I'm a cynical man and a half glass empty kind of man. And um I admit that the story isn't one that I've read too much in depth. So I'm happy to be um shot down on this, but I did wonder whether what actually happened here might be more along the lines of the guy reacting then reflecting on that thinking oh I might get in trouble he might I don't know if he realized it was videoed and that he might get called up by the police so he was trying to kind of cut it off at the pass and kind of go well I went back and I kind of made amends kind of thing so whether it was more of a guilt thing was my was my reaction and if there's stuff in there that disproves that then I'm happy to hear it but that was my that was my uh reaction
00:57:24
Speaker
You do hear immediately after he's done it, um someone behind the camera is saying, we're filming this, like we're going to be sending this to police to the police.
00:57:34
Speaker
And we've we've all had the red mist at points and then at some point... afterwards realized we've we've perhaps behaved in a way that we we don't fully back ourselves our ah our previous selves i think it's an interesting one i mean you know ah generally speaking i would say our line on the show is that as long as people aren't being hurt like you know find your different way find your different form of activism and roll with it in and in fact the the person who's megaphone it It was.
00:58:03
Speaker
She has said on her own social media, let's keep this fight up. Never doubt yourself no matter what. Everyone has the power to make a huge impact. Get out there, find what you're good at and start fighting for the animals.
00:58:15
Speaker
I don't want to massively lay into her. I would say that never doubt yourself. I think there is a space for reflection. And actually, if what you're doing is resulting in people involuntarily or deliberately smashing your equipment up and that being spread around as like a viral thing. And lots of people are commenting on it going, yeah, good for you. What a hero. i don't know.
00:58:39
Speaker
Maybe it's not the most effective thing to do. Or maybe that is the exact reaction we would expect in a carnist world. And that's the way that we need to get people's attention. I don't know, but I can i can see why.
00:58:50
Speaker
so if if you're if you don't like what someone's saying and they're saying it in a place where you're trying to get your weekly shop done over a megaphone, I don't know how receptive you're going to be to the message. But maybe the whole point is that you're filming it and you're promoting that we're out in non-vegan spaces. And I don't know.
00:59:07
Speaker
I'm not really reaching the conclusion here. Yeah. as a As a tactic, it's it's been ah done on on a number of occasions here where maybe the the first time it was done was a couple of years back and about seven or eight activists, ah some of whom I knew, they walked into a local big supermarket and stood silently in in a line holding pictures of and animal cruelty from factory farms or ah things with sort of writing on them, right? Signs, they're called.
00:59:35
Speaker
signs, stood there for about 10 minutes and then walked out again completely silently when the security guards asked them politely to leave. They didn't shout. they they They just stood there in the meat and dairy aisle showing these images and slogans.
00:59:49
Speaker
And the reaction online afterwards was so vitriolic and hostile and hysterical And people were saying that I was i was ah prevented from getting my meat for the 10 minutes it took for the whole thing to start and finish.
01:00:04
Speaker
What an outrage. This is a disgrace. this is These guys are fascists. They're telling me what to do, all sort of stuff. It was so hysterical. I was wondering, what was it a parody that was those i sent in by an activist? But I don't think it was.
01:00:18
Speaker
Now, on the surface of things, provoking people to that extent may not seem like progressive thing to do, right? It's not going to change their minds. However, my take on this is that, okay, so so the so the so the person sending in a comment hy historically online about this probably isn't going to be converted by this action or any other action, I would imagine.
01:00:39
Speaker
And I would say the very presence of vegans on their planet, sharing the same planet as as vegans, disgusts them no end, even if a vegan never says or does anything. the very concept of it. So people that that are so far gone that they're impossible to reach. What they're useful for is to be the useful idiots who portray the opposite position so hysterically and so stupidly that it actually acts as a turnoff for people who are informally on their same side.
01:01:07
Speaker
and So I think going in and doing provocative nonviolent, peaceful direct actions like this is actually, it's it's a very good way of getting the message across. Most people are looking at this. They aren't sending in the commons one way or the other, but it does make them think and ah and it puts the reality of of what of what they're paying for in their face.
01:01:27
Speaker
and they need to see that if they're prepared to do or to pay people to do things to animals that that that are that are that are as disgusting as they are then they should be able to fit to face up to to to the reality of what they're paying for and this is one way of doing that so this is a more aggressive uh cube of truth i suppose taking it right on to the source of the sort of product itself and i think it's provocative Overall, it's really good. i think the activists are brave. that They are taking a risk. And despite the initial knee-jerk reaction, I think in the long run, it'll pay off.
01:02:02
Speaker
I mean, at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, or whether individually we like it or not, they have got... press coverage and they have got people reading about it and they might be positive responses to it and there might be negative responses to it but if you've got it out there if that's your goal you've succeeded haven't you and and we've said it before on the show but like there's no empirical way to show what works and what doesn't work in our movement really we're we're all just yeah stabbing in the dark is not probably the most peaceful vegan phrase, but like we're we're we're doing our best. you know And I think so long as we're being reflective and and and adapting to any data that we get back, then then great. But at this stage of the game,
01:02:46
Speaker
We don't know what's working for sure. So you've got gotta to try a bit of everything. Well, that is the end of all of our stories so for today's show. Thank you for listening along. There's a little something you can do for us. I know we ask you every time, but we're going to keep asking because there's more of you listening than have left reviews.
01:03:03
Speaker
So here we are. We're going to ask you again. If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else you think might enjoy it too.
01:03:16
Speaker
We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
01:03:32
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
01:03:42
Speaker
Thanks everyone for listening. The next Enough of the Falafel episode will be coming out in May Day, Thursday 1st of May with Anthony, Paul and Mark and we will be reviewing the new children's book from Christine Mott called Freebird.
01:03:57
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks to Anthony and Mark for your contributions. Thanks again everyone for listening. I've been Paul and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:04:16
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
01:04:31
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening, and see you next time.
01:04:57
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course, around a dozen news items from around the world each week.
01:05:22
Speaker
So check back on your podcast player, to hear previous episodes. And remember... To get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
01:05:32
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.